1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant doing his cheeks. 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: He's just informed that he has to do that for 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: the rest of our career, whether he likes it or not, 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: because that's our lucky thing. My cheeks are actually expanding, 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: they're actually looser than they were two and a half 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: years ago. I know, you look like Walter Matthoud. I 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: love he's one of those guys that he looked elderly 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: when he was like in his forties or twenties. I 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: think he kind of had that hunched overlook, that sarcopenia, 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: yeah if you will, yes, nice, And that sarcopenia that's 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: muscle loss age related muscle I thought that was literally 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: the hunch bad. That's where you get the hunch. Sure, yeah, 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: like you lose control or you just lose your muscle mass, 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: including the stuff that had you stand up right, So yeah, 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: you're right, okay. But he also had like the jewels 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: in like a five o'clock shadow that was ever present. 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: But he was just a great actor, dude, I love him. Yeah, 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: he was great in that Bad News Bears everything else. 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Starting Bad News Bears is a good one to start 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: this one with. Because he was a drinker. He was 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: a drinker. Um. He was what you might call an alcoholic, 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: all right. Yeah. In the seventies though, it was everybody 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: was an alcohol driver around with the Schlitz in your car. 27 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: And it is no big deal. Now, let's say, but 28 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: we remember check this is the third out of three. 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: This is the end of the trifecta. This is the 30 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: jewel in the Crown Jewels and the Family Jewels. This 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: is it. Um, we did addiction, prohibition and now rehab. Yes. Uh. 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: If Walter math How had wanted to go to dry out, 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: as they say for is alcoholism in bad newspairs in 34 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: the mid seventies, he would have had a very limited 35 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: choice of where he could go. Probably most likely he 36 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: would have gone to what is called a sanitarium a 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: k A. An insane asylum a k A. A mental 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: hospital or a regular hospital. Yeah yeah, but most likely 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: it would have been uh, some sort of medical clinical 40 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: setting where his addiction was treated. Yeah. It wouldn't be 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: uh private Malibu Promises by the Sea Shore. Not yet 42 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: because rehab as we know it today, UM, which which 43 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: makes the cover of tabloids as frequently as any celebrity, 44 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: just the concept of rehab does um didn't start until 45 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: the eighties. Actually that I thought that was very shocked 46 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: by that. Have you ever seen Value of the Dolls? 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: I have not, believe it or not. That's a good movie. 48 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: I had actually forgotten that i'd seen that movie until 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: I reread this article that I wrote. Right, I think 50 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: I've seen the movie. It's I guess at some point 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: around there was like, oh, yeah, Value the Dolls. It's perfect. 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: If you have not seen Value the Dolls, go see it. 53 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: It's an excellent movie. And Petty Duke's character goes to 54 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: dry out at you know, a sanitarium, which means you know, 55 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: shock treatment and being strapped down so you can't drink. 56 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: It could be and like if you had been going 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: to one, you know, far enough ago and say the thirties, 58 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: and you're a particularly rebel rousing alcoholic or drug addict, 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: they may have lobotomized you. Yeah McMurphy style, yep, exactly, 60 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: So Josh, you kind of blew the cover off of 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: the fact. Well that was the first fact. Let's start 62 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: till the eighties. Hey, I've been doing this a while. 63 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: Uh so where are we now then? Well, um, now 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: as they exist now, as I exists now, one of 65 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: the other things that would have changed. Um that anyone 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: listening to our prohibition an addiction podcasts, I would know 67 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: that when the other things that changed and burgeoned alongside 68 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: of rehabs as we know it, um, non medical facilities. Right, Um, 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that addiction is a brain disease, which 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: we should cover real quick. Yeah, a little rehash. So 71 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: before it was stunt gravy. It was blamed on the 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: demon juice, right, it was inherent in that substance. Yeah, 73 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: that was the evil thing, was the substance itself. Then 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: it shifted and all this started about the nineteenth century, 75 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: late eighteenth century, early nineteenth century. The concept of addiction 76 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: came about. Then it shifted from the stunt gravy to 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: the person. It was a character flaw, right, Yeah, exactly, 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: something's wrong with you because you are not able to 79 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: drink and you have a weak will, not able to 80 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: not drink until you fall down flat right exactly. And 81 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: then finally in the eighties, I would say about the eighties, 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: the the idea that addiction is a brain disease, that 83 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: there is a process that an adict undergoes, a substance 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: user undergoes and becomes a substance abuser. That is the 85 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: direct result of this substance hijacking that person's reward center 86 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: in their brain. That the the decision of whether or 87 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: not to um engage in the that risky behavior or 88 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: um do that substance, snort to shoot it, smack it, 89 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: slam it, drop it, that kind of thing, UM is 90 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: out of the user's hands, and therefore they're an addict. 91 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: It's a disease. It's a chronic disease. UM that will 92 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: that that has relapses and all that kind of stuff. 93 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: It needs boosters. So that model, the brain disease model, 94 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: along with the creation of rehab, uh, is where we 95 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: are now. Well yeah, and it's it's uh, well, it's 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: not funny because I'm sure you're playing this, but the 97 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: fact that you mentioned UM, the temperance movement and prohibition UH. 98 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: In figuring out what addiction was, they actually ended up 99 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: leading to rehab because back in those days. They what 100 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: you what were they called sober houses? Yeah, so we're 101 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: locked up basically right where you can't drink. Did you 102 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: see them? Did you see the picture? You don't get 103 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: the pictures to you know, Okay, so check that picture out. 104 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: I think that's Carrie Nation, the head of the Women's 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: Christian Temperance Union, standing next to you. A man who's 106 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: taken a sip and standing at a bar looking a 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: little upset. The definition of buzz kill exactly. So the 108 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: temperance movement definitely gave rise to rehab by setting up, 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: like you said, what are called sober houses like the 110 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: drunk tank. Almost like on Andy Griffith you would lock 111 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: up the drunk of course, you know on Andy Griffith 112 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: they were the guy was in the drunk tank. Otis 113 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 1: I think for weeks and we think they more resembled 114 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: like you know, halfway houses for that are like transitional 115 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: homes between prison and society. I wouldn't know about those. 116 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: I think you know, your dad's house, okay. I think 117 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: that um that they they resembled that. It was like 118 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: this house is among houses and you can't get booze there. 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: You can't bin bring booze you kind of need to 120 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: say where you're going and why, and um that they 121 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: set up these houses called sober houses that were sequestering 122 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: people from regular society because alcohol was out there, and 123 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: that was like the first rehab centers in the United 124 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: States and the forties. I think, man, that's crazy they 125 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: did this that long ago. And then we did the 126 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: failed Noble experiment prohibition, which was basically like, if you 127 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: can rid society of alcohol, you can rid society of alcoholics. 128 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: But you can't. So maybe we can only set up 129 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: places for them if they have troubles. Right, they went 130 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: back to the sober house idea. It's interesting that prohibition 131 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 1: actually kind of lead to rehabilitation clinics and more drinking. 132 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: Well that's not true because they said, overall I went 133 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: down butt across the board, but the alcoholics, the number 134 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: of alcoholics increased, Yes, exactly, right, So Chuck, where are 135 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: we were past the nineteen thirties. Oh. One of the 136 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: other things that came up, not just rehab like as 137 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: we understand it today, like a place where you go 138 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: that's sequestered from the temptation of society to to rehabilitate yourself. Um. 139 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: One of the other things that came about as a 140 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: director's role of prohibition in the Temperace movement is UM 141 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: twelve Step programs specifically alcoholics anonymous, right yeah, Dr Bob 142 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: and Bill w Robert Smith and Bill Wilson created this 143 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five. And I don't think I realized 144 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: it was that old either. Yeah, long time. And remember 145 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: Bill w wanted to um give everybody acid who came 146 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: through the program because he was like really great, yeah, 147 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: he thought it might help. Uh yeah. That was the 148 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: first support group treatment program in the twelve steps has. 149 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: Uh well, let's not jump there, let's let's just finish 150 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: the history out. Well, the the International Order of Good Templars, 151 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,359 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they they were a society dedicated to assisting 152 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: UM alcoholics during the Temperace movement, supporting and they created 153 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: the support groups that eventually gave rise to this A 154 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: A model that's improven, like you're about to say, so successful, yeah, 155 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: which we'll get to and then chuck right at this 156 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: point thanks to a a almost exclusively and the idea 157 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: that um, you you can you can treat, you can 158 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: lick it, yeah, you can treat addiction, especially in a 159 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: medical setting. UM. Before the advent of the eighties. UM, 160 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: the the US started throwing money not just that eradicating UH, 161 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: the the supply of illocent substances, but also the demand 162 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: and even more so the demand. Under Nixon, right, Yeah, 163 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: Dick Nixon put two thirds of his drug kind of 164 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: anti drug policy money toward UH recovery and treatment, which 165 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 1: is a really kind of a forward thinking thing if 166 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: you think about it in today. For Nixon, you would 167 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: have thought he like, let's throw all of it towards 168 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: locking people up. But Ford came along and read distributed 169 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: that to about a half and half model, half toward 170 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: policing and arresting and trying to get drugs off the street, 171 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: and half towards treating people with the disease. Why is that, 172 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: I chock, it's ironic because you might have heard of 173 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: the Betty Ford Clinic, and that was his wife who 174 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: had a pretty bad pill addiction and alcoholism problem, and 175 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: she started it. She was like, oh, I can get 176 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: clean and I should set up a treatment center. Yeah, 177 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: and she did. In Rancho Mirage, California, the Betty Ford 178 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: Clinic UM in two had opened its doors, and that 179 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: I think was one of the models for the current 180 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: incarnation of rehab. That was the first big and I 181 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: know celebrities went there, but that was just the first 182 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: all star treatment center that you heard on the news 183 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: and probably not probably most definitely because her name was 184 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: on it, and it also um her lending her name 185 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: to that treatment facility and admitting that she had been 186 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: addicted to you know, pills and booze um it was. 187 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: It also had a lot of a big effect I 188 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: think on getting people into treatment because she it's it 189 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: was it is still but it was at the time 190 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: even more so such a shameful thing to be addicted 191 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: to something. Um still is, but it's way more accepted now. 192 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: But because in like religious circles, I know, it's still 193 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: pretty pretty shameful. Sure, I would definitely imagine so um 194 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: but but I think hers putting her still, like even 195 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: the first lady can get hooked then, you know, but 196 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: again yeah, and if the first lady can kick it, 197 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: then I can too. You know what other effect it 198 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: had a dobt what people with the name Ford not 199 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: naming their daughters Betty. I'll bet you would name your 200 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: daughter Betty Ford, would you know? Well, I might, but 201 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm kind of a jokey kind of guy. Betty Ford Clark, 202 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: Betty Ford Clinic Clark. That reminds me. Actually, I think 203 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: I might have told you this. My friend Joey used 204 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: to say that if he ever had a son, he 205 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: would name him Thomas Magnum Dorlc. His last name is Dorla. 206 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: I think that's a good I thought was pretty good. 207 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: It's a good name. But he had like three sons 208 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: that didn't name any of them that. So, so he's 209 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: a liar. He's a liar, and he's been called out 210 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: as a liar on that's I don't think he listens. UM. 211 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: Once Reagan got into UH to office, the UM policy 212 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: of UM paying more for policing the supply side than 213 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: paying any attention to the demand side, it was continued. Yeah, 214 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: the war on drugs, the war on drugs in earnest, 215 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: but by this time people were seeing like, Okay, rehab 216 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: can work. It's a viable solution to treating our nation's 217 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: substance abuse problems. And UM it was kind of etched 218 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: in popular culture and then in the American psyche. Yeah, 219 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: and it boomed, like private institutions all over the country 220 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: started popping up. Yeah, And I think also that just 221 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: say no campaign, and like the idea of like, you know, drug, 222 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: the drug addiction and how bad it was probably got 223 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: a lot of kids, a lot more kids thrown into 224 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: rehab by their parents than it ever been before. You know. Yeah, 225 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: like thirteen year old to snugs and beer out one night. 226 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: They're all of a a sudden in rehab exactly. I've heard 227 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: stories about that. Didn't you go to high school. I 228 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: did go to high school. So check. Let's talk about 229 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: different types of treatment. There's four really actually three technically four. 230 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: And by the way, I need to change the headings 231 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: of this. I need to switch to chapter headings, I 232 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: realized because it's very misleading. Well, we can do it 233 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: on the fly. I'm gonna start with inpatient. Is that 234 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: still correct? Yeah? Okay, impatient? And this we should point 235 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: out this can take place, um in a private facility, 236 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: it can be in a hospital. Still um. I think 237 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: prison you said is a is a big place for 238 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: a forced rehab. It is technically, um an impatient facility 239 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: very much impatient. Yeah, you're not going anyway what impatient 240 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: is though, just like being a hospital stay, it means 241 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: you're they're living there. Yeah, usually for that twenty eight 242 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: days for any SANDERD. Bullock fans, probably more for this podcast, 243 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: for any Vigo Mortenson fans, twenty eight days, not twenty 244 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: eight days later. The other one was he in twenty 245 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: eight Days Did We Go? Yeah, he played a sex 246 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: addicted like football star or something like that. That's funny. 247 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: I ran into him like three times on one week 248 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: in l A. One time to the point where he 249 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: looked at me and he was like, are you following me? 250 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: I thought he was gonna kill me? So, oh no, 251 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: not Vigo Mortenson. I was thinking he's the creepy guy 252 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: from Buffalo sixty six. Vincent Gallo, Yeah, disregard that whole story. 253 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: I could see him. Yeah, I wouldn't want to run 254 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: into him that third time. I'd be afraid of him 255 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: for thinking anything like that. Have you seen um Hide 256 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: and Seek? Now? It's an awesome movie. It is so twisted, interesting, 257 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: it's a thriller. Uh, Vincent Gallo, Um, Jennifer Tilly is 258 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: excellent in it. Darrell Hannah actually does a really good job. 259 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: That's pretty much the cast and it's um really something. 260 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: I'll have to check that out, all right. So where 261 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: were we? We were impatient we were staying overnight, John, 262 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: just where we were, and that can range, like you said, 263 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: from twenty eight days all the way to basically when 264 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: you need to leave six months a year or when 265 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: your insurance runs out. Yeah, if you're in there for 266 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: a year, then you might be a hopeless case. Well 267 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: that'd be pretty bad. But you really just inspired the 268 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: hearts of a lot of people who have been in 269 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: rehab for eleven months. Just say that, and it can 270 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: be court ordered as well. And they also in some 271 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: of these long term programs can offer you like resocialization 272 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: because imagine being in a rehab clinic for three or 273 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: four months, six months, they're they're like keep your milk 274 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: and a refrigerator or failing that, a cool wet sack 275 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: out patient is next. That's UM basically where you go 276 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: in to visit on a set schedule. It could be 277 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: daily UM. But you're you're doing your regular life, you're 278 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: sleeping at home, you're going to work, and then probably 279 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: in between work and going to sleep, you're spending a 280 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: significant amount of time time UM in counseling, in group sessions, 281 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: twelve step maybe receiving medication. Methodone treatment usually takes the 282 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: form of outpatient treatment, and that's actually one of the 283 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: longest treatments apparently is um is methodone, prescription methodone treatments 284 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: for yeah, to get you off of the white pony. Yeah, 285 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: Whenever I see those on the documentaries, it's it's very 286 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: much outpatient. Like you literally see the junkie walk up 287 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: to the window to get his daily dose or her 288 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: of methodone. Lastly, there's partial hospitalization. Um. This is basically 289 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: the opposite of outpatient right. Um, well, it's not the opposite, 290 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: but it's pretty close. Rather than go to work from 291 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: nine to five, um, and then go to rehab, you 292 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: go to rehab from like nine to five during the day, 293 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: but you you stay at home and all that. Now, 294 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: what's I don't understand the difference between that and outpatients. 295 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: Outpatient you're just not necessarily there all day. You might 296 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: go for like your two hour meeting and leave every day, yes, okay, yeah, 297 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: whereas like partial hospitalizations, you're spending way more time there 298 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: during the partial hospitalization and treatment because you know, um, 299 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: after work. For outpatient, you're there for maybe a couple 300 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: of hours, three hours, but it's like a part of 301 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: your day instead of going home and sitting on the 302 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: couch and watching TV. You're going to rehab or going 303 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: to happy with with you don't want to do that, Well, no, 304 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I mean, oh yeah, we're going. Yeah, 305 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: after work. It's probably a good time for a lot 306 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: of people because a lot of people associate the five 307 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: o'clock bell ringing with that first drink exactly, and I'm 308 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: sure that's a huge part of it as well. Partial 309 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: hospitalization is where you're spending your days in rehab and 310 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: then you go home. That is your job. Yes, your 311 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: job is to get well. Prison. You mentioned prison or 312 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: I did, And when they do this in prison, they 313 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: take you out of the general population typically, didn't we 314 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: have somebody right in after the prison? Um? Yeah? The 315 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: listener mail on prisons, the guy was like, it's the 316 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: it was the easiest place to score drugs and then 317 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: I've ever been was prison. Yeah, so they I think 318 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: that's kind of cool though. It shows like a real 319 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: dedication to um rehab among prisons by by taking the 320 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: people away rather than pretending like there's not a problem exactly. 321 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: And I could actually see that being the case where 322 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: they said, no, we're rehabing people, but they're you know, 323 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: getting drugs being passed between the bars and readily and 324 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: other things. It's key stirred. So, Chuck, let's talk about treatment. Technically, 325 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: I would call this one how rehab works. I wanted 326 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: to switch those two children, because really types of treatment 327 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: was what we just talked about, right, and then how 328 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: rehab works is what we're about to talk about. I 329 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: just don't know how that got passed. Well it did. 330 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: So let's talk about how rehab works. Man. Well, it's 331 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: a long process. Don't expect to be out of there 332 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: in a week, although that one program that you point 333 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: out says they can do it in six days, which 334 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: one six months? Oh six months program? Yeah it was 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: that or six weeks, six weeks, I'm sorry, Okay, six weeks, Chuck. 336 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: So I would say, don't plan on spending more than 337 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: like a week in your rehabilitation clinic, would be my guess. Yeah, um, 338 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: you can. Also, we we failed to mention e r 339 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: S can technically be an inpatient rehab that lasts long 340 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: enough to get you over your withdrawals or to bring 341 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: you back to life from an acute drug overdose. So 342 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: if you are taken to the hospital odeed they'll keep 343 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: you there as long as you're physically or until you're 344 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: physically well, yes, which can drug that can yeah, it 345 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: can rehabilitate you, I mean you can, yeah, but so 346 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: it can last for as little as several hours, like 347 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: you said, months and months, possibly a year, right, but yeah, 348 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: everybody who buys into the brain disease model of addiction says, okay, 349 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: because of this, there's there's a lot of facets to addiction, 350 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: which means there's a lot of facets to rehabilitation. It's 351 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: gonna take a while, yeah, yeah, yeah, but step one 352 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: is always just withdrawal, get the drugs out of your 353 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: body and get clean physically. Um. And you're not gonna 354 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: have any physical withdrawal from behavioral addiction compulsive behavior, but 355 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: you're still probably going to have a rough time at first, 356 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, with the desire to do that. Um, when 357 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: you are stable, I guess, and probably before you're stable, 358 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: you're probably going to be introduced to a twelve step 359 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: program of some sort. Right now, did a A create 360 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: the twelve step? Yes? Okay, yeah, there was no such 361 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: thing as the twelve step before that. But there's all 362 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: sorts of variations on the twelve step. Now, yeah, and 363 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: one of the things, like we were saying, a A 364 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: is incredibly successful. It's been study after study after study 365 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: done on A A and um any kind of UM 366 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: relapse associated with the people who go through it, and 367 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: UM it's a very successful program. But it's also very 368 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: criticized often because one it's criticized for being too indulgent 369 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: on the addics ego right like this is not your fault, 370 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: it's all okay, or if you go through these steps, 371 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: you're going to be a great person. Um. And it's 372 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: also very reliant on a belief in God. Yeah, I 373 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: don't think there's it's not like a Christian God or 374 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: Judeo Christian God or any specific god. But I think 375 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: they call it like a higher power. And there's plenty 376 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: of atheist addicts out there, well they call it. I 377 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: actually looked at the original twelve steps today and they 378 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: say the word God in four of the twelve steps. 379 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: But on the before that first mention of God, it 380 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: says God as you understand him to be. So that's 381 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: the little caveat like we're not saying, like like you said, 382 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: the Judeo Christian God must be the one, but they 383 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 1: definitely say you've got to have a higher power here 384 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: or else. That's not gonna work, right. And the problem 385 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of people whose conception of 386 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: God is that they understand him to be non existent 387 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: or that I am God. Right. Yeah, Um, there was 388 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: like a joke that just flitted right through my prefrontal cortex. 389 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: It wasn't funny, um, So chuck, Narcotics Anonymous, I believe, 390 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: and some others, but most notably Narcotics Anonymous UM has 391 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: adjusted the twelve step model to accommodate atheists as well. 392 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: And you know, I bet regular a eight meetings or 393 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: a little less centered on that. Now, that would be 394 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: my guess. They probably wouldn't refuse you at the door 395 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: if you said you were an atheist. Oh, I don't 396 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: think they refuse you. I don't think it's it's to 397 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: think what they're what they're saying is like, if you're 398 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: an atheist and you don't buy into the God thing, like, 399 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: you're not going to be as successful as somebody who does, 400 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: because part of his like giving it over to this 401 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: higher power. So I don't think that they're exclusive or 402 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: anything like that. I think that it's like atheists aren't 403 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: going to do as well. All right, they didn't studies 404 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: on that winder. I'm sure they have. I didn't go 405 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: to that detail though, It's okay. CBC is that next 406 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral counseling, which is psychotherapy, and that is when 407 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: they I mean, they can treat mental disorders, they can 408 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: treat depression PTSD, and basically they're they're trying to eradicate 409 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: addiction from the life of someone by looking at their 410 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: behavior very thoroughly. That's most, um, most therapy that anyone 411 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: goes in for these days is cognitive behavior therapy. It's 412 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: like one of the most prevalent um and yeah, it's 413 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: it's looking at behavior first of all. It's recognizing the 414 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: patterns of behavior, especially destructive patterns of behavior, and then 415 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: figuring out why you're doing that and then eradicating it. Uh. 416 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: And it's this multi step process. Um. CBC is less 417 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: effective according to studies as twelve step programs by itself, 418 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: either one by themselves. Uh, twelve step usually beats cognitive 419 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: behavior behavioral counseling. Right, yes, what about meds. Well, if 420 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: you know you need MADS like methodone to get through 421 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: your treatment, then your rehab centers probably gonna have them 422 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: for you or and A. Depressants are a big one too, 423 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's very effective is identifying, 424 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: usually through cbc UM other underlying comorbid conditions, like if 425 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: you have a binge eating disorder or you are depressed 426 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: and an alcoholic. Treating those two things simultaneously in the 427 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,640 Speaker 1: same umbrella has been shown to provide the most success. Sure, 428 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: because if you're depressed and you can't get treatment for alcoholism, 429 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: if you're suffering through depression, and just leave the depression 430 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: alone because you're probably an alcoholic because of your depression, 431 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: probably or it could be because you're an alcoholic, if 432 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that carrying your alcoholism will carry 433 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: your depression, if you've gone into a clinical degree of depression, 434 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: right like a chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Yes, 435 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: to get to the other side. And acupuncture, Josh, you 436 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: mentioned a few non traditional methods. Acupuncture is one of them. 437 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: Have you ever done that? I have not, have you 438 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: It's awesome, Yes, I can imagine. It's one of the 439 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: most relaxing things I've ever done in my life. Actually, 440 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: I went to a place in l a that had 441 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: it was a school where you could get really cheap acupuncture. 442 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: Was Vincent Gallow Your acupuncture was actually but he used nails, 443 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: Tinpenny nails. It's very relaxing. It's not painful at all. 444 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: If you're a little weirded out by needles, because I'm 445 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm totally freaked out by needles, but it's not like that. 446 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm freaked out about them not um thoroughly cleaning their 447 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: needles enough. I've heard accusations of that other new though 448 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: not all the time. The ones I got were taking 449 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: out a little package. They're right in front of me. Yeah. No, 450 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure like most of them, but there's ones out 451 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: there they're just like, yeah, just used some other guy 452 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: because I'm cheap. If they're wiping blood off the end 453 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: of them, I wouldn't get that. If you are a scientologist, 454 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: you might go in for l Ron's um patented addiction treatment. 455 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll call it. Yeah, it's like a vitamin regimen 456 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: and exercise sauna sauna as part of it. Um what 457 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: else the Jude Daddy Is program we talked about that, Uh, nomads, 458 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: no meads at all, And I got when I don't 459 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: remember because I didn't go back and look, but I 460 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: got the impression that this they're kind of this is 461 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: something of a closely guarded secret, and it may or 462 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: may not be viewed suspiciously by conventional rehabs. But they 463 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: boast a six success rate for their six weeks days. 464 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: And yeah, they don't they don't use meds. It's all 465 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: just like you were bad. You're a bad person, can 466 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: they They're like, you eat like this, and they push 467 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: your head down into a dog bowl and then they 468 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: do a clockwork orange movie viewing experience, right, and then 469 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: six weeks later you're like, I'll never do that again, Josh. 470 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: Let's say you love Eastern medicine and things like acupuncture 471 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: and you're afraid that if you go into your traditional 472 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: rehab clinic that they won't oblige to those kinds of things. 473 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: That that is that a worry that you should worry about. 474 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: It depends on how much money you have. Really, Yeah, 475 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: some of the higher end ones will um combine a 476 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: lot of stuff, even cool stuff like helicopter rides or 477 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: wilderness survival, based on the idea that um things like 478 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: wilderness survival can can show you how self reliant you 479 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: can be. Um or. A helicopter ride is meant to 480 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: just be like, Wow, look how beautiful life is even 481 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: without booze um or. Yeah, maybe acupuncture, spot treatments things 482 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: like that, Like the higher end you go, that more 483 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: pleasurable the experience is going to be. I imagine, I'm 484 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: glad that works. But when I hear something like that, 485 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: I think, you know, look how beautiful that the world 486 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: looks from a helicopter flight along the shore of the 487 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: Pacific coast, Like you don't need drugs to witness this, 488 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: but you need a helicopter. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you come 489 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: out like hooked on helicopter. I guess they're what they're 490 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 1: looking for is just to inspire you with that notion 491 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: that yeah, I don't need it. So um, I agree 492 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: with you, though I think that's trying to be funny. No, 493 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: but it was funny and true, Chuck, which is the 494 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: best kind um there? This stuff actually does work. As 495 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: we said, people have been studying the stuff since they 496 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: started in the eighties, um, And one of the things 497 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: that they found that the most effective kind of treatment 498 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: is rehab where you are sequestered away or you have 499 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: some form of rehabilitation treatment. Right UM, a twelve step group, 500 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: and weekly counseling like cognitive every counts throwing everything at it. UM. 501 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: Meds are not necessarily included in that, but UM being 502 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: part of a group, especially twelve step group plus counseling 503 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: plus a stint at rehab UM is the most successful. 504 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Is far as the rate of relapse goes to the 505 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: tune of eighty seven percent. The Target Cities Project study quoted. 506 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: If you do all those three things, that's an eighty 507 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: seven percent chance of not relapsing after six months. Yes, 508 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 1: and get this, this is surprising to me. I remember 509 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: this when you factor in treatment drop out to people 510 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: who just you know, we're like they were like, I'm 511 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: not gonna stay the whole twenty eight days, but I'm 512 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: gonna keep going to a weekly twelve step meeting and 513 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to counseling five times a week, which 514 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: is a lot. Oh yeah. Um. They still had a 515 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: success rate the abstinence rate with SEV so even without treatment, 516 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, and then at sixty actually it keeps 517 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: going down if you complete the treatment program aspect, but 518 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 1: you didn't go to the twelve step meetings and you 519 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: did go to counseling. So the two out of the 520 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: three minus the twelve step, you have a sixty two 521 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: percent chance. Right, So the twelve step, as they found 522 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: is is the most significant, followed closely by UM individual 523 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 1: counseling Yeah, usually CBC UM. And what they found is 524 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: that a person who goes to four twelve Steps sessions 525 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: a month or one even one counts individual counseling session 526 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: from a month more than anybody else has a better 527 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: chance of of success in in remaining abstinate. Well, that 528 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: says that these work. These programs work. They actually do work. 529 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: But here's the thing they work best. Again. Studies show 530 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: when the person is ready and willing to give up 531 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: this behavior. Yeah, that's what they always say. When you know, 532 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: you've got to be ready to change anything in your 533 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: life in order for that to change. And that makes sense. 534 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: Otherwise you're just going to be You're just doing it 535 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: for your your parents, or your wife or your husband, 536 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: and if it's not coming from you, then good luck. 537 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny though, what's that I just 538 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: realized this That was conventional thinking. But with the advent 539 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: of prison rehab, yeah, new information. Studies have also shown 540 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: that UM if you force someone into rehab in prison specifically, UM, 541 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: they will still there's they still have a pretty high 542 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: success rate and abstinence rate and even a lower rate 543 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: of recitativism recidivism. Right, it's a bone head word. Yes, 544 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: you're right. Oh was that the end? Well, and to 545 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: that tune, Josh. They've now got these awesome situations called 546 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: drug courts where they pass out drugs you take before 547 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: your sence. H. Drug courts actually are when UM it's 548 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: set up specifically for drug cases and instead of putting 549 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: you in jail, they sent it to you to treatment programs. 550 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: And out of the of people in treatment programs in 551 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: the United States were referred there by the courts into 552 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: and for Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, let's talk. Let's 553 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: talk some stats, buddy. UM in two thousand eight, so 554 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: I wrote this, and I think two thousands seven maybe, yeah, 555 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: And UM, the I think that the most recent statistics 556 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: I could get, we're about two thousand five. So it 557 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: was about three point nine million people in two thousand 558 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: five that went in for treatment. UH. In two thousand 559 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: and eight it was pretty much the same four million 560 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: UM people in the US aged twelve or older, UM 561 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: went for treatment for drugs or alcohol or possibly both. Right, Um. 562 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: Of that four million people, that was a fifth of 563 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: the estimated people who were current illicit drug users in 564 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: the US in that same year, So not very many 565 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: people are going to rehab. No, But I also wonder, like, 566 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: what what percentage of that twenty million illicit current drug users, 567 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: which are people to admit to have used who to 568 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: have used a drug within the past month, aged twelve 569 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: year older, Uh, admitted to using pots and just pot? Right? Sure, 570 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they take you at rehab 571 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: for pot. Oh, no, they do, do they really? Oh? Yeah, 572 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: there's pot. There's pot marijuana specific rehabilitation groups. I don't 573 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: know about clinics where you actually stay, but I know 574 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: there's there's there's marijuana addiction groups for sure. I did 575 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,239 Speaker 1: not know that. Yeah. Seventeen million though, Hold on, this 576 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: is a much better stat seventeen million heavy drinkers in 577 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: the US age UM twelve year older. I wonder how 578 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: many of the twenty million and the seventeen million overlap. Right, Well, 579 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned four million, and you said some were in 580 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: there for both. You actually had the stat um one 581 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: point three million out of the four million. We're in 582 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: there for both drugs and alcohol. Point eight million for 583 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: just drugs and one point six million for just alcohol. 584 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: So what does that say about what's the uh, the 585 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: real gateway drug I don't know, because we talked about that, 586 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: remember during the Prohibition podcast, and I predicted that if problem. 587 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: I think I predicted you. You didn't necessarily agree that 588 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: prohibition has taught us that if you legalize something, if 589 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,800 Speaker 1: you prohibit something, that makes it more forbidden. But apparently 590 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: it's not the case. No, I agree with that. Well, 591 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: these numbers show different. I mean alcohol you can get everywhere. 592 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's and it's clearly a big problem. That's true. 593 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: Maybe we're both wrong. Maybe let's talk about money, because 594 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: these things ain't cheap necessarily when you look at the 595 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: grand total, and especially if you want to meet Eric Clapton, 596 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: it's not cheap. Uh. In two thousand two, Josh, the 597 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: average cost of a program was about four hundred bucks 598 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: residential at thirty eight hundred and outpatient and method on 599 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: treatment for seventy undred dollars for the average cost of 600 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: a full treatment program. And that's on the that's the 601 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: average costs. They go up, you know, considerably if you're 602 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: interested in the luxury tour, right. UM, I had down 603 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: that promises from or not promises UM Crossroads, which was 604 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: founded by Eric Clapton's in the West Indies in Antigua. Um, 605 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: there's fifteen grand per month. Apparently it's gone up since 606 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. It's now nineteen five a month. 607 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, it's a lot of money. That is 608 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of money, but it is far and 609 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: away not as expensive as the most expensive one that 610 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: I found that you found, I should say, um is 611 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: the Sanctuary Enviyron Bay, Australia. Holy cow, I didn't see that. 612 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: Eighteen thousand, five hundred dollars per week, per week a week. 613 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,399 Speaker 1: So Clapton's is nineteen thousand, five hundred for a month. 614 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: It's a bargain. Passages in Malibu is forty to fifty 615 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: grand a month. Promises which you've all heard of because 616 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: been Affleck and Robert Downey Jr. Had a lovely stay there, 617 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: among others, thirty three thousand per month and they've you know, 618 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: they've all had their roster of celebrities depending on where 619 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: you live. Yeah, and isn't that just isn't that kind 620 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: of odd if you step back and look at it, 621 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: like like, celebrity and rehab is just their hand in hand. 622 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: Our fascination with both are equal well and in earlier 623 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: career publicity wise, So sure, ken which is weird. It 624 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: is weird. It's also weird when you look at the 625 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: fact that it says, uh, it's there's like a one 626 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: to one correlation of how how luxurious the rehab is 627 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: and what list a list or be list your honest 628 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: sen actor because promises, like I said, Charlie Sheen, been Affleck, 629 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: Robert Downey and then you work your way down to 630 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: uh Cottonwood in Tucson at a mirror, thousand dollars per 631 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 1: day has had the likes of Rowan Atkinson and Spice 632 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: Girl Jerry Halliwell, thousand dollars per day is still that 633 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: ain't cheap? Okay? I take that back, then, Rowan Atkinson's 634 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: making some cheese. Apparently I didn't know that Mr Bean 635 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: went to rehab. I didn't either, And we shouldn't make 636 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: fun of Jerry Halliwell, because the Spice Girls are the 637 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: best selling female band of all time, is the right? 638 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 1: That was one of her tribute questions so it took 639 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: people are um kind of like, yes, yes, celebrities can 640 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: afford this. What if I'm an average Joe who's trying 641 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: to kick the dope. Well, insurance can cover a lot 642 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: of it. It used to cover even more. It used 643 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: to be about thirty was paid by insurance right um. 644 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: And then by two thousand three, UM, the burden of 645 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: cost had shifted away from not just the insurers, which 646 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: we're paying about eight percent, and not even the patients 647 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 1: who were paying just ten percent, but to the state 648 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: generally society taxpayers. Medicaids started picking up a lot of 649 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: the tab, up to sixty percent of the tab and um, 650 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: so let's say seventy percent between the insurance company, medicaid 651 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: and the patient, and then the rest was being picked 652 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: up um by um other state agencies. Uh. And so yeah, 653 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: the burden of cost shifted to the society, which made 654 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 1: a lot of people start to wonder, wait a minute, 655 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what are we doing here? Right? And 656 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: so the cost benefit analysis was born as far as 657 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: rehab goes, right. So there's something to that though when 658 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: you look at the fact that in two thousand three, 659 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: uh twenty billion dollars and change was spent in all. Overall, 660 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 1: Medicaid picked up six of that, so about twelve or so. 661 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: And you think that's a lot of money, twelve billion dollars. 662 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: But they did a study that they looked at the debt, 663 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,720 Speaker 1: the cost of alcohol and an illicit drug use, including 664 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: tobacco tobaco, uh, and that includes healthcare, crime, property, theft, 665 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Prison, prison, billion dollars and two thousand 666 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: two alone. That's so okay. So twelve billion paid by 667 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: the state to offset five billion in cost to society. 668 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: That's a pretty good deal. But well, that's what I think. 669 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: You get some of these people healthy. They might not 670 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,839 Speaker 1: be robbing you, they might not be crashing their car 671 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: into your loved ones, they might not be uh stealing 672 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: things and go into prison, and you're footing the bill 673 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: for all that. There was a study by the National 674 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholics that also found that 675 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: um for every dollar spent on rehab, three dollars received 676 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: in uh larger cost to society, which is not bad. 677 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,399 Speaker 1: It's pretty good return on investments. What they call that. Well, yeah, 678 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: and you know when you break down those numbers sound 679 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: expensive and obviously the luxury places are expensive no matter 680 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: who you are. But I think they also skew the 681 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: average quite a bit as well. Yeah. Um, but if 682 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,399 Speaker 1: you look at a per visit treatment average cost, it's 683 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: really not that bad. Out paid outpatient on methodone treatments 684 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: are about twenty six bucks per visit. That's the one 685 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: where you go to work and then go to rehab 686 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: after work, right, non hospital residential treatments, it's like promises 687 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: and in Crossroads seventy six dollars per day on average. 688 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: That's including every place. That's including like the place in 689 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: the back of Joe's crab Jack where they lock you 690 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: up for twenty eight days to you know, the place 691 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: in Byron Bay, Australia. So but when you break it 692 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: down like that, it's not that much money now and 693 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: even more so um methodone, which you will remember the 694 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: average is about sucks in two thousand two. It's also 695 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: the longest um overall, the longest treatment overall, and that 696 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,239 Speaker 1: broke down to seventeen dollars and seventy eight cents per 697 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: visit to get somebody off of the dope, which is 698 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: pretty I think that's worth investing in, and that includes 699 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: the methodon too. Right, the actual Yeah, that's the whole, 700 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 1: the whole shebangah um. And then Chuck, there's also the 701 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: human uh expense that you're you're you're saving that cost 702 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: and invest in treating addicts. Right. Um. There was a 703 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: study by Biotie I think that said that there are 704 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: twelve million alcoholics in the United States roughly, right, And 705 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: if you consider that each alcoholic has a spouse, possibly children, 706 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: and family in some way, uh say, five people that 707 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: are in that alcoholics life, that means that sixty million 708 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: Americans are affected by alcoholism and affected not in good ways. Well, 709 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,839 Speaker 1: I'm possibly creating new alcoholics for future generations to pay 710 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: for two. Yeah, you gotta think about that. So, Chuck, 711 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 1: I would say that that is the end of the 712 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: addiction rehabilitation trifecta. Actually, you know what we should mention though. 713 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: Did you read A Million Little Pieces, the book by 714 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,359 Speaker 1: James Fry that was the specifically told by Oprah not 715 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: to read. Well, that's the deal is. That was the 716 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,320 Speaker 1: infamous bestseller about a memoir quote unquote memoir about um 717 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: one young man's stay in rehab and it is awesome. 718 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:16,280 Speaker 1: It was found out afterward famously to not be true. 719 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: After Oprah had said it was the best memoir she'd 720 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: ever read, and um, so if he took a lot 721 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: of heat over that. I read the book and it's 722 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: amazing and you should read it. I wrote the guy 723 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: letter saying, dude, I don't care whether it's true or not. 724 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: Just call it a novel and call it great. And 725 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: he was like, thanks, man, I really appreciate that he 726 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 1: wrote you back. Yeah, a letter and that well an email. 727 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 1: So I recommend people read it. Just don't get all 728 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: mad and today this isn't true. Just considered a novel, 729 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: and a very good novel at that. That's what I said. Okay, 730 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: it's really really good. And for every dollar um spent 731 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: on James price book, a million little pieces, Chuck, it's 732 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: fifty of that. Which so if you want to learn 733 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 1: more about addiction, rehab, prohibition, any thing like that, type 734 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: those words into the search bar at how stuff works 735 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,919 Speaker 1: dot com and will bring up some delightful articles. And uh, 736 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 1: it's time now at long last listener meal, Josh, I'm 737 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,439 Speaker 1: gonna call this email from a new twelve year old fan. 738 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: I saw this one from Emma, or maybe that was 739 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: Emma's mother's email address. I'm not sure. But it said, Emma, 740 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: no kids these days, they have their own email. Uh hi, 741 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: Josh and Chuckers and Jerry. I don't know when I 742 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: can do this, but I'm going to donate to Kiva. 743 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm twelve years old and I'm going to get a 744 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,839 Speaker 1: job walking dogs and babysitting, etcetera. As soon as I 745 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: do get twenty five dollars, I will donate it. But 746 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: to get the job, I have to print flyers to 747 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: pass out. To print flyers, we need to buy ink. 748 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: To buy ink, we need extra money. That isn't going 749 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: to stuff we need right now. But you do have 750 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,439 Speaker 1: to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Emma. 751 00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: That's right. And if you want to work at the 752 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,240 Speaker 1: omelet station, especially if you want to be the squire 753 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: of the OLEMT, that's right. You gotta break a few eggs. 754 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: But please read this part on the podcast, guys. Whenever 755 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 1: it happens, I am going to save up the money 756 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,800 Speaker 1: because I'm getting this babysitting job, babysitting snotty nose kids, 757 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,959 Speaker 1: so I can give this money to Kiva and tell 758 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: everyone if they have no excuse, if you have a 759 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: real job. That was from Emma and thank you very much. Emma. 760 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 1: I think my hat is off to you, Chuck. We're 761 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: wearing a cap. He would tip it. If you're one 762 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: of Emma's neighbors, please forgive her for her description of 763 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: your kids and hire her anyway because it's going to 764 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: go toward a good cause. That's right, right, um. And 765 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,840 Speaker 1: if Emma can do this, you can do this too. 766 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: If you want to donate to the donate heck, Lynn, 767 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: you get the money back if you want, yeah uh 768 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: in twenty five dollar increments. You can go onto www 769 00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: dot k i v a dot org slash team lash stuff. 770 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: You should know. Join our team, leave some messages on 771 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: the message board, make some donations, have a good time, 772 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: right agreed. And if you want to email us to 773 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: let us know what you're doing to save the world, 774 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: whether it be dog walking or babysitting, snot knows kids 775 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: or what have you, we want to hear about it 776 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: in an email. Send it to Stuff podcast at how 777 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 778 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com, 779 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: The house stuff works dot com. I phone app is 780 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: coming soon. Get access to our content in a new way. Articles, videos, 781 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,720 Speaker 1: and more all on the go, check out the latest 782 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: podcasts and blog post, and see what we're saying on 783 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter. Coming soon to iTunes, brought to you 784 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are 785 00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: you