1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Content warning. This podcast discusses violence, murder, suicide, civil unrest, 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: aggressive policing, racism, and lynching. If you or anyone you 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,319 Speaker 1: know is considering suicide, her self harm, or just need 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: to talk about problems, please call the National Suicide Prevention 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: Lifeline at one eight hundred two seven three eight two 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: five five, or text the Crisis text line at seven 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: four one seven four one. Previously and after the uprising, 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: I call now one one and all I remember screaming, 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: is my baby delik right, so you know he's let's 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: take pictures. All signs right on the bathpoint that this 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: was a suicide. We know what the fact of the 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: case are. We know what detectives are investigating and what 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: they saw. I we get missed. She's the one that 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: really stuck out was You're not hard to get I 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: was fooled right behind you. Rally what love? Yeah? Why 16 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: the fund are you grabma like an animal? Because they 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: feel like we don't appreciate law enforcement here. Therefore, it 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: has in the first effect of certain cops not being 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: a stality when it comes to straight up and down 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: police work. I just know that the one detective that 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: the moment the black guy did not give us his 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: business card, gave us a card for the airport police. 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 1: What you're looking at is the aftermath of the grand 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: jury deciding not to indict Officer Wilson. A young man 25 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: found hanging from a tree in October. His mom believes 26 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: someone murdered her son, targeting him. Danye became an activist 27 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: in the wake of the shooting death of Michael Brown 28 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: by a white police officer. That's why Melissa mckinnis wants St. 29 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: Louis County police to dig deeper to her son's death. 30 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: He was not suicidal. This is after the uprising the 31 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: death of Donye Dion Jones. New developments about a deadly 32 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: discovery in St. Louis County. A young man found hanging 33 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: from a tree in October. His mom believes someone murdered 34 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: her son, targeting him because she was a Ferguson protester. 35 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: Jacob Long is here with the medical examiner's final report. 36 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: Jacob Well, Mike and the report we're talking about tonight. 37 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: It is fifteen pages long, and the medical examiner's conclusion 38 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: is pretty clear. After reviewing the evidence. She says Danye 39 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: Jones died of suicide by hanging. When the St. Louis 40 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: County Medical Examiner's Office least their final report on Danye's death, 41 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: some local media again briefly focused on Dane's story, but 42 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: they were mostly uncritical of what they were provided by county. 43 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: According to this report from the Medical Examiner, an investigator 44 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: found a chair under that tree, and while Jones did 45 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: not leave a suicide note, his family says he often 46 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: talked about being depressed. Meantime, Jones The family is disputing 47 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: the report. His mom told us a few months ago 48 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: that her son was targeted and she believes murdered. She 49 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 1: says he did not know how to tie the kind 50 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: of knot that was used in the hanging, and she 51 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: said he was upbeat and not acting suicidal. The St. 52 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Louis County Police Department, which also ruled this a suicide, 53 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: says the investigation remains open until detectives can review the 54 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: cause of death. Medical Examiner's Office just the tuans Hi. 55 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: I submitted a Sunshine request and I got the paperwork 56 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: in the mail the other day, But um I was 57 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: wondering if there's any way to get the associated photograph, 58 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: a fee that would have gone along with that paperwork um, 59 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: which is that it's the Donya Jones case. Oh, um, No, 60 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: we don't. We don't really photograph. Is there a legal 61 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: way to get them, like a submitted through an attorney? Right, 62 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: you'd have to get a sup. To start wrapping our 63 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: heads around the facts regarding the manner in which Donye died. 64 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: We were going to need to see the reports, both 65 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: from the Medical Examiner's Office and the police department. Missouri 66 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: has on the books a Sunshine Law, which is like 67 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: their version of the Freedom of Information Act. Via this law, 68 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: we were able to get a copy of the Medical 69 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: Examiner's report pretty soon after it was released. The first 70 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: thing to understand about the Medical examiners report is that 71 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: it's built of two primary sections. The first is a 72 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: scene report written by a medical legal investigator sent out 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,679 Speaker 1: to the scene of a death by the Medical Examiner's office, 74 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: who in this case was a man named Michael Tarticio. 75 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: His job is to examine the scene, take the temperature 76 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: of the body, speak to the family members, and to 77 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: take detailed notes on everything. The pathologist, in this case, 78 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: a man named Dr Gersham Norfleet, will examine the body 79 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,679 Speaker 1: and ultimately it is he who will draft the second 80 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: part of the report. After that, the report is reviewed 81 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: and whole and signed off on by the Chief Medical Examiner, 82 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: Dr Mary Case. Upon reading the report, Melissa and her 83 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: family were immediately put off by what they saw as 84 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: various small errors. I'm John, Oh, my name's Gloria. Gloria, 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: to meet you, right, John, Ray? Okay, Mommy, ms Laura. 86 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: I'm a Melissa's mom, grandma, grandma. Okay, very well, well, 87 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: nice to meet you. We went to Melissa's house on 88 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: a rainy spring day and sat down to talk with 89 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: her family to go over the reports so they could 90 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: point out to us what they saw as its flaws. 91 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: In the living room of their home where Melissa, her 92 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: husband Derek, her brother Daniel, her sister Kim, her mother Gloria, 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: her daughter Militia, and Militia's young son, Messiah. One of 94 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: the irregularities in the medical examiners report that jumps out 95 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: at Melissa right away concerns Danye's height. They said that 96 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: I was so that he was five seven. The medical 97 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: example ran says, he's five seven. Do you still have 98 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: his driver's license? And what's a dam's drivers was six one? 99 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: His dad is six five and my my my side 100 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: of families saw my husband is five seven and compared 101 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: to my son, my husband actually has to look up. 102 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: This claim that Danie was five seven was in the 103 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: first section of the report written by the scene investigator. 104 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: The second section of the report, written by the pathologist, 105 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: states that he was seventy inches tall or five ft ten. 106 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: Danye's State i D says that he was six ft even. 107 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: The report also claims that Danye weighed about one hundred 108 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: and fifty pounds, which Danielle's family says was too light. 109 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: His State i D, which was issued earlier in the 110 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: year of his death, says he weighed a hundred sixty pounds. 111 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: While his weight may have fluctuated, his height could not. 112 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: Another error in the scene investigator's report concerns who saw 113 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Danie last. The report says Melissa saw him last. They 114 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 1: also said that I had The last time I saw 115 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: him was we walked past each other in the backyard. 116 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: That's a flat outline, because that wasn't you. You did 117 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,119 Speaker 1: not witness that. According to his family, the last person 118 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: in the house to see Danye was his uncle Daniel, 119 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: who was sitting at the kitchen table having a snack. 120 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: So what was the last point the night before that 121 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: you saw it? I saw him leave out the leave 122 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: out the door after the night because I was sitting 123 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: in the kids. Do you know about what time? That 124 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: was about nine o'clock and then he and he left left, 125 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: got his car and drove off. Or no he didn't. 126 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: He didn't leave in a car. That was the things 127 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: as well, his calls down all week, his calls down. 128 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: According to Danye's stepfather Derek, he and Donye have been 129 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: watching the Boston Celtics game that evening. I leave every 130 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: night between that fifteen and that thirty go to work. 131 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: So we were down and started watching basketball and my 132 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: wound went off for me to get me to go 133 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: to work. That's what a man makes you, you know. 134 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: Keep me posting on this game, you know what I think? 135 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: I believe it was a Boston Celtics games. This is 136 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: his team. We asked Derek what don Yae's mood was 137 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: like during that time when they were watching the game. 138 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: Oh man, we've done the top. We watch the games 139 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: and we have brothers ex and when we're watching games 140 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: and the game is good, we'd be like, you know, 141 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: it's all in his game. You know, and uh, it's 142 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: just normal, you know, talking ship and game. He was 143 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: a very good move. That's why I was like, you know, 144 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: what the hell could have happened between last night and this. 145 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: Checking the NBA history, we found that the Boston Celtics 146 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: played the Philadelphia seventy Sixers on the night in question, 147 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: October sixteen. Boston won the game one oh five to 148 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: eighty seven. The game was in Boston and started at 149 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: eight pm Eastern time, so seven pm in St. Louis. 150 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: We found stories announcing Boston's victory at nine eleven pm, 151 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: which pretty much checks out with Derek's timeline. If he 152 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: usually left for work around nine fifteen and had an 153 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: alarm set to remind him to get ready, perhaps he 154 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: actually said goodbye to Danyae in the basement where they 155 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: were watching the game ten to fifteen minutes before the 156 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: game was over at around nine o'clock. Then not too 157 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: long after that, Danye headed upstairs with his backpack and 158 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: passed his uncle Daniel in the kitchen as he headed 159 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: out of the house through the back door. The report 160 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: also states that Derek was the one who discovered Danya 161 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: hanging from the tree, when in fact it was Melissa, 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: as we established in episode one, and though the family 163 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: never complained about it, we noticed the report also named 164 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: Danye's sister as Mimitia when her name is actually Militia. 165 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: She has mentioned because she received a text message from 166 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: Danya at nine pm that simply said sorry sis. Militia 167 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: replied to this message with I love you. The report 168 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: seems to lean into this text as if it's a 169 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: final goodbye message. What we first wondered was there wasn't 170 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: some other explanation for the text, because Militia didn't respond 171 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: to Danyae's I'm sorry with for what like one might 172 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: expect if Donya's message had been totally out of the 173 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: blue or without context. So we asked Milicia about it. 174 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: Can I ask, so, what what's the sword with the 175 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: nine thirty text? I'm sorry? I had hang her right 176 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: before that message. Were downstairs, took my side downstairs, a 177 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: seeding side. He was like, oh, he walks so good 178 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: and stuff. We talked for a second and he was 179 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: just like this, something was not right, Like he was 180 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: texting somebody I don't know, like something I don't know, 181 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: Like something was off with him. Are you saying that 182 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: text felt like, if not the text, the text I 183 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: thought he was just saying sorry, says maybe because he 184 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: wasn't really anti acting with me he said anything similar 185 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: to Javan No, it's not so, it's not like he 186 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: was sending everybody goodbye text no and this, and somebody 187 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: probably like, oh, if the sister might say something that, 188 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: oh he takes her tonight, she's gonna say something, He's 189 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: gonna call the case. So on October six, Danya's last 190 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: full day alive, his sister had come over with their 191 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: toddler's son. Danyae wasn't super attentive to either of them, 192 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: which Melissa then kind of got on Donya about after 193 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: the fact, and both of them, Militia and Melissa believed 194 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: that his PM apology text was for that inattention, we 195 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: should take a minute to focus on a couple of things. First, 196 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: we can't gloss over what Militia said, that something wasn't 197 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: right about Donya, that something with him felt off. This 198 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: is important to keep in the back of our mind 199 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: is going forward. Also, that he was distracted texting somebody. 200 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: The second thing to note is the timeline. Derek said 201 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: he was watching a basketball game with Danye until about 202 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: nine pm, when Derek had to head off to work 203 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: at PM. Danye texas sister sorry sis. If this text 204 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: represents a final goodbye message to militia, as the county 205 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: seems to be interpreting it, that means that by this 206 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: time Danye has made his final decision to die by suicide. 207 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: This is a bit strange considering what he did next. 208 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: He left out with his bag, oh night bag and 209 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: that that's not a bag that he nor he had 210 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: because he's oh Night. This is Danye's uncle Daniel again. Yeah, 211 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: it checked the bag and see what was in the bag, 212 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: because that's not something he does it. It was to 213 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: two brush the old and stuff like that, like oh 214 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: if he was going overnight and you know you're gonna 215 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: be over night. Danye is seemingly doing something he doesn't 216 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: usually do, going out to stay the night somewhere, and 217 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: for this overnight he wanted clean clothes and apparently earlier 218 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 1: in the day he had asked Melissa to do some 219 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: laundry for him. He was downstairs, do you want to 220 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: study in? And then this one he said, can you 221 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: washed my clothes? This is maybe what am or something? No, No, 222 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: that that was earlier that they probably around five PM, 223 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: like he was in a rush to go so earlier 224 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: in the evening. Dania wants his clothes washed, specifically things 225 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: like underwear, according to Melissa, and he packed some of 226 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: these clean clothes into a backpack with his toothbrush and 227 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: deodorant to head off at roughly nine thirty pm. Where 228 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: was he going? Who was he planning to see? His 229 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: car wasn't running all week, according to his family, so 230 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: he would have needed to have been picked up by someone. 231 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: Aside from the text to his sister, the medical examiners 232 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: report uses three primary things to bolster the idea that 233 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,239 Speaker 1: Done died by suicide. These are statements the family supposedly 234 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: gave to the on site investigator for the County Medical 235 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: Examiner's Office, Michael Tarticio. He writes in his report, prior 236 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: to scene departure, I made contact with multiple family members 237 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: in the living room of the residents. The timeline of 238 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: events was confirmed, an additional history of the decedent was obtained. 239 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: It was reported the decedent had stated several times over 240 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: the years that he felt depressed, although he was never 241 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: clinically diagnosed with depression. We thought it was pertinent to 242 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: know who in the family had told this to the 243 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: medical investigator, who provided the information that he had been 244 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: depressed sometimes but hadn't been diagnosed. No, so none of 245 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: the three of you. That's why he saved family members, 246 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: because it wasn't he was a family members. See he 247 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: asked us, he said, had he been depressed? And we 248 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: see no, not usually like we if we're upset about something, 249 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, they were upset, but no, he had just 250 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: started his business and he was excited about his business. 251 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: That's why I didn't make sense. You didn't even say 252 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: anything that might lead them to infer like they go, well, 253 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: was he ever depressed? And somebody you might say, everyone 254 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: gets depressed once and one nothing like that at all. 255 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: That's like those questions were depending on what, what, what 256 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: how you want to take it. It's it's so general 257 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: and open that anybody on the planet that's to have 258 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: lived on the earth, Yeah, yeah, I've been depressed. I 259 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: was about seventeen years old. But they just put yes, 260 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: he was depressed, The report continues. Additionally, the decedent recently 261 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: started a real estate business, which did not succeed. Who 262 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: among the three of you mentioned his real his real 263 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: estate business, and it's not going well. No one come 264 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: fromies camp, no one did you guys even anyone even 265 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: talk about this business at all. We did what we said, 266 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: it was doing well. What's and that's why again, I said, 267 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: that's why this makes no sense to me. He was 268 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: so excited about his business. So just the other night 269 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: you was just write notes. The report goes on, and 270 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: he was dealing with rumors of him being a homosexual. 271 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: Family stated, all these things were weighing heavily on Jones' mind. 272 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: Homosexuality never came up. No, Danyee was trying to find 273 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: out who was spreading the rumor about him being gay, 274 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: and so Diane asked me. He said, Ma, did you 275 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: hear did anybody come you and say any kind of 276 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: mess about me being gay? I said no, I said, 277 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: and if they had, I would tell you. I would 278 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: ask you about it, because I ain't got no problem 279 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: with it. He said, well, let me tell you this. 280 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: I love my black queens. That was his quote. Well, 281 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: I know he's in my house. He asked me, said, Grandma, 282 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: have you been hearing anything about me? And I said no, 283 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: I haven't hearing anything. What would I hear, you know, 284 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: so he was at least aware that it might be Yeah. 285 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: So he was trying to find out to find out 286 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: who's starting yeah, because one thing about my son is 287 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: that he gone chick. He'll chick, you know, especially something 288 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: like that, you know. According to the Medical Examiner's report, 289 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: the family members present the morning of Danye's death were 290 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: the only people the on site investigator, Michael Tarticio, spoke with. 291 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: Tarticio's report never quotes any specific family member or associates 292 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: them with particular claims. We asked the Medical Examiner's office 293 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: for an interview with Tarticio, but they declined. We asked 294 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: for his notes, but we're told that the notes were 295 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: destroyed when he wrote the final report. Clearly, the things 296 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: mentioned have a basis in reality. Danya did have a 297 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: new real estate business, and there was a rumor circulating 298 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: that he was gay, So someone in that house must 299 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: have said something to that effect for Tarticio to be 300 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: able to write about it. What is hard to tease 301 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: out is the context in which these statements were made 302 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: and to what level the issues behind them were actually 303 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 1: affecting Donna psychologically and emotionally. If his family was asked 304 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: was Donja ever depressed? And someone gave a half hearted 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: answer like, well, I guess he was down from time 306 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: to time, but who isn't could that get reported? As 307 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: the decedent has stated several times over the years that 308 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: he felt depressed. What do we have to remember is 309 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: that when the family members are being interviewed, they are 310 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: in shock, they are having one of the worst days 311 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: of their lives, and they are only ever being asked 312 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: if they can think of reasons why Donye would want 313 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: to die, never if there was any reason he wouldn't. 314 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: And maybe this is a nitpick, and perhaps it's reasonable 315 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: that investigators don't want to plant seeds of doubt in 316 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: the minds of family members in these situations. But wouldn't 317 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: people trying to determine a cause of death? I want 318 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: to know what good things were going on in Donya's life. 319 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: Wouldn't they to know that he was reconnecting with an 320 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend and making plans to go out with her 321 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: soon because he was The day before Danye died, he 322 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: was texting with his ex girlfriend Loretha. There was also 323 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: talk of going out together that weekend. He was seeing 324 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: a newer a newer woman right now. She wasn't new 325 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: she was his ex, but they were talking about, um, 326 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: what he was doing, what they were doing for his 327 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: birthday and everything. We're under the impression here like since 328 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: he wants his like underwearing his clothes watched, that maybe 329 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: he's going on to hand with her, right well, that's 330 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: what I thought that, you know, maybe he has somewhere 331 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: to go, because from what he had in his overnight 332 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: bag was stuff that he would use if he was 333 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: going to spend a night somewhere, you know, like somewhere high. 334 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: You know. While we were in the room with all 335 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: of Danye's family, we wanted to ask about one quick thing. 336 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: Back in episode one, Melissa told us over the phone 337 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: that the lead detective in the case, Timothy Anderer, had 338 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: given her family a business card before he left their 339 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: home on the morning of Danya's death, but that it 340 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: wasn't his business card. She said it was for the St. 341 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Louis Airport Police. We asked if she still had it, 342 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: and she did. She brought it out of a fuller 343 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: of paperwork and handed it to us. Sure enough, it 344 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: has a large logo for the St. Louis Airport Police 345 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: on it and the name Sergeant Leslie F. Williams in 346 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: black print. We asked if they called the number on 347 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: the card, and if so, what happened? I called him, 348 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: I talked to him. He finally called me back, and 349 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: when I was running it out time, I say, you know, 350 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: we were trying to find out, you know what, what 351 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: would we have to do to get the sheet back? 352 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: And he was like, you know, she, what are you 353 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: talking about? So I did. I knew it was a 354 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: bad guy, so I did. I went talking to the 355 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: guy of game card. He was this completely you know, 356 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: anning of any It is why to tech of Anderer 357 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: would even have this business card in his pocket is 358 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: a mystery. But combining this incident with what Melissa describes 359 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: as as disrespectful boisterous laughter, and now lumping it in 360 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: with the various details that the medical examiner's report got wrong, 361 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: even if some of them are trivial, like who saw 362 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: danye last, who discovered him, or his sister's name, is 363 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 1: it not understandable why Danyae's family would see all of 364 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: this inattention to detail, along with the misconstrued context of 365 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 1: their statements, and then presume that if investigators got the 366 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: little things wrong. They probably got the conclusion wrong too. 367 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: Before leaving, Melissa wanted us to be aware that strange 368 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: cars had been parking outside of our house for a 369 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: long time, but with increasing frequency leading up to Donye's death. 370 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: And sometimes it appeared as though the occupants of these 371 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: cars we're police. That's likely said people was sitting outside 372 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: of the house. Police came at least five and stood 373 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: outside the house, in front of my house and just 374 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: looked our just staring at our direction. And that scared us, 375 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: you know. And that was that was probably like two 376 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: weeks prior, and that that one happened that before. You've 377 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: been seeing cars for like a year, but you hadn't 378 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: seen guys get out the day that FaceTime with you 379 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, maybe she tripp in and 380 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: you put the phone out the window. No, that was 381 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: just one time that somebody was sitting outside. It was 382 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: like they started coming around constantly, constantly when people got 383 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: out and like walked and they had police on their shirt. 384 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: In episode one, Sergeant McGuire told us that Melissa never 385 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: mentioned strange cars to detectives who were investigating Danye's death, 386 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: but we wouldn't know if that was true until Detective 387 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: Anderer filed his final report. In the meantime, we wanted 388 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: to St. Louis County Medical Amateur's offices, positions, and the 389 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: details of the case. We had the reporting hand, but 390 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: hadn't yet seen any of the photographs they had of 391 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: Dana's body. We had been told that we would need 392 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: a subpoena to get them, but after emailing their office 393 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: the relevant text from Missouri's Sunshine Law, we were able 394 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: to convince them to send us the photographs, which would 395 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: arrive on a CD. In the meantime, we called Dr 396 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: Gersham Norfleet, the pathologist who examined Danye's body, which never 397 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: actually had an autopsy done on it. This is something 398 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: I always want people to understand that autopsies not like 399 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: the all in the y all of all cases. Autopsies 400 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: are helpful to kind of like rule out traumatic circumstances 401 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: and things like that. But at the same time, investigation 402 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: of speaking with family, speaking with the police, anyone else 403 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: who's also been to the scene, and I have an 404 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: investigator that goes out there as well, would take all 405 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: of that information into account when we come up with 406 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: our determination for cause of death. We wanted to know 407 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: how he would distinguish between a hang death that was 408 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: a suicide versus a hanging death that was a murder. 409 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: Let's just say, they're so far off the ground where 410 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: they couldn't have done that themselves. So you take, you 411 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: cut them down, you get the rope, you do d NA. 412 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: You realize that none of the DNA from the rope 413 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: is the individual who's hanging. There's another profile that's found 414 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: on it. Uh, there's no way that the individual could 415 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: have gotten into the tree where their positioned to hang themselves. 416 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: There's no chair by them, doubt in the dirt or 417 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: signs of a struggle. You see multiple footprints. Uh, there's 418 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: trauma to the body. You see scratches, you see operations. 419 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: So if you see something like that, But if you're 420 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 1: missing all of those things, and you've talked to everybody 421 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: and say that, you talk to people initially, and then 422 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: you know two weeks later the story changes, well that's 423 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: I don't have any control over that. At Melissa's press conference, 424 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: she did say that Danya had a bruise on his 425 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: face and indentations on his wrists. We asked if Northfleet 426 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: saig any such markings. On Danyae's body. They're there's nothing 427 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: on the body and my personal opinion that shows any 428 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 1: type of struggle or there's no bruising, regardless of what 429 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 1: anyone else says. Then out of nowhere he offered up 430 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: something we hadn't heard yet from anyone. The actual ligature, 431 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: the bed sheet um that was you know, used was 432 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: was sent down to our lab and they did DNA 433 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 1: on it looking for profiles in the particular significant portions 434 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: of the ligature where it's going to be tied to. 435 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: The profiles is pretty much predominantly coming back to Donya Jones, 436 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: so he has physically touched at this particular area of 437 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: where it's tied to the tree that profiles are matching. 438 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: This conversation happened on March eighteenth, five months after Donyae's death. 439 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 1: The medical examiners report never mentions DNA in it, not 440 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: even once, and it turns out that's because the DNA 441 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: swabbing and testing was done by the St. Louis County 442 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: Police Department's crime Lab Northfleet. Must have heard about this 443 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: testing through the grape vine. At this point in time, 444 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: Melissa and the rest of Danielle's family have not been 445 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: made aware that any DNA testing of the bedsheet had 446 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: been done by anybody. This was partially because the police 447 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: department hadn't issued their final report on Danye's death yet. 448 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: In January of Sergeant Shawn McGuire told us that it 449 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: would likely take a few more weeks to complete that report, 450 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: but ultimately the report wouldn't be finalized until July, fully 451 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: nine months after Danye's death, and it was the police 452 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: report that would mention the DNA And we will come 453 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: back to that in a future episode, but for now, 454 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: understand that this DNA information was all inside baseball amongst 455 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: detectives and some staff at the Medical Examiner's office. So 456 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: at the time of this conversation with Northfleet, it was 457 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: news to us, But the real kicker was what he 458 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: would tell us next. And I take no secondary DNA 459 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: at all on the the There is another one, but 460 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure. Uh, it's a minor component. I 461 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: don't know who we matches too. Is just a male 462 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: from what I know. We were kind of astounded to 463 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: find out that the County Police had found a second 464 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: set of mail DNA on the bedsheet. That DNA was 465 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: found hanging from and nobody seemed to think that this 466 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: was very important. What work was done on determining the 467 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: origins for the second set of DNA on the on 468 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 1: the sheet or that I can't tell you. That's that 469 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me. So that yes, thats nothing. 470 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: That's that's nothing to do with me. You've learned enough 471 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: that he knew it was a male. That's just that 472 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: it's there's a y half load group on that. I 473 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what testing was done to be able 474 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: to determinate, but there I I do know there are 475 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: two profiles, but there's a major one and then there's 476 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: a minor one and it appears in some unknown mail 477 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: and no one knows who that is. But that's to 478 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: me it to hear neither there could like to say 479 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: it's a it's a bit cheat. Who if the DNA 480 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: DNA too So so just let's just say it was 481 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: briefly in his house for a period of time that 482 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: was laying on something. There's other males that live in 483 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: that house. Um, so you could start swabbing everybody from 484 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,239 Speaker 1: Tim Buck too to try to figure out what it is, 485 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: but I don't know how far that went. Tim Buck two. 486 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: How about just swab the other two males in the house, 487 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: Danye's uncle Daniel and his stepfather Derek. I mean, that 488 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: would be a good place to start, right. We couldn't 489 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: help but find this shocking. The police found a second 490 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: set of mail DNA on the sheet, and everyone, including 491 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: the pathologists, just presumed it was from another male in 492 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: the house, without ever attempting to eliminate them by requesting 493 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: they give a DNA sample. We also couldn't help but 494 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: notice that Melissa's DNA wasn't on the sheet. She was 495 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: the one who did the house's laundry, so presumably if 496 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 1: that was her eat and she was the one who 497 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: pulled it from the dryer, folded it and placed it 498 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: in a closet, that her DNA would have been found 499 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: on it. There are other important details here that we 500 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: need to stop and focus on. For one, Dr Northfleet 501 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: said that Dane's DNA was on the portion of the 502 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: bed sheet that was tied around the tree. He has 503 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: no way of knowing that because the crime lab would 504 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: have no way of knowing where that portion of the 505 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: sheet was as the sheet was untied from the tree. 506 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: He actually acknowledges this when we asked him about the 507 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: knot itself and whether or not it was a sliding 508 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: or a fixed knot. I don't know about specifically the 509 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: part in the tree because I didn't undo that portion. Um, 510 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: so I don't know anything about that um In terms 511 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: of that not, you would have to ask whoever untied 512 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: off the tree branch. And I'm no, my investigator didn't 513 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: do it. That's probably something to saying what was County did, 514 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: So you would have to ask them. The truth is 515 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: north Fleet's investigator, Michael Tarticio, did take the sheet out 516 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: of the tree. He says so in his reports, stating 517 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: I was able to untie one end of the bed 518 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: sheet and place it in the body bag with the 519 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: deceded So the crime lab couldn't possibly have known where 520 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: the sheet was tied into the tree to swab for DNA. 521 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: And what's worse, the sheet was placed in the body 522 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: bag with Danyae's body. The sheet was not treated as 523 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: potential evidence and secured in a separate bag, but traveled 524 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: to the morgue against Danye's body, possibly contaminating the entirety 525 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: of the sheet with Danyae's DNA. So even if the 526 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: crime lab did nowhere to swab to find out who 527 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: tied the sheet to the tree. Danye's DNA would potentially 528 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: have been all over it, and though we wouldn't know 529 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: this until the police report finally did get released later 530 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: in the year, the section that speaks on this DNA 531 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: evidence states that the not area of the sheet was swabbed, 532 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: so this must be a reference to the only not left, 533 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: which was the lower knot that would have been behind 534 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: Danye's head. We tried contacting the crime lab and the 535 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: particular technician who did the swabbing of the sheet to 536 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: get specifics on how much was swabbed and where you 537 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: have reached the St. Louis Colony Police Crime Laboratory Crime Lab. 538 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: This is Jeff. You're exactly the person I'm looking for. 539 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: My name is John Duffy. I'm a journalist working on 540 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: a story and you did some evidence swabs on a 541 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: particular piece of evidence from a crime a couple of 542 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: years ago, and I just had like a quick question 543 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: about methodologies and what is so. The case was a 544 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: young man who had was found hanged and it was 545 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: eventually found to be a suicide. You know, when I 546 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: look through the case report, it just has your name 547 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: is the person who swabbed it, and the write up 548 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: says swabbed on the not portion. And I just was 549 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: trying to get like a technical understanding of was that 550 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: swab done on like the not not where the not 551 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: was hide or was it the loop around his neck 552 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: or was it all event Okay, well, I will discuss 553 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: this with my supervisors. Okay, I don't I don't know 554 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: what we are at liberating to discuss. So thank you 555 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: for your inquiry and we will give your response. And 556 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: then we never heard from them again, despite our repeated 557 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: attempts to reach out. We at least hope Dr Norfleet 558 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: could tell us if the sheet had any damage to it, 559 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: as if perhaps Dane had been tied into it and 560 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: then lifted off the ground by someone else pulling the 561 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: sheet over a rough tree branch. I never I never 562 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: really looked at the sheet that hard. What's the tipping 563 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: point in this case, It's not so much a tipping point, 564 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: it's the it's the totality of everything that's being said. 565 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: Initially what we have and then from the investigation from 566 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: stain Wis County Police Department, there hasn't been anything that 567 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: has come forward to suggest there's something anyone other than 568 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: himself did this to himself. But the determination is colored 569 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: to some extent by the investigator's interview with the family, 570 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: the statements about depression, and the circumstances around the text message. 571 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: This all helps form the picture. Opinion, Yes, the opinion, 572 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: Yes it does. Norfleet took very seriously the family statements 573 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: that has seen investigator delivered to him that morning. He 574 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: took seriously Danye's DNA that he thought was on the 575 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: portion of the sheet tied into the tree. He took 576 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: seriously the idea that Detective Andrewer, whom he likely didn't 577 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: know had been sued for using excessive force against black protesters, 578 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: had done a thorough job of investigating the circumstances of 579 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: Donye's death. And there was one other fact he wanted 580 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: to drive home to us, something he thought held a 581 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 1: lot of weight, so much so that he wanted to 582 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: read it to us directly from his side investigator's section 583 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: of the report. I'm gonna read you the whole paragraph, 584 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: but then I'm going to reenterate specifically to us that 585 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: as that we had in here. So anyway, Jones was 586 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: last seen alive by Melissa false. He's last seen by 587 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: his uncle as he walked into the backyard carrying a backpack. 588 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: Melissa did not find this unusual and carried on with 589 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: her night as usual. It was later discovered Jones sent Monsia, 590 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: that's a sister false the trivial a text message at 591 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: approximately thirties that stated I'm sorry. Momsia reportedly replied to 592 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: that text message by saying I love you. There was 593 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: no further communication after that point with the disease. Dr 594 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: Norfleet was interpreting the I'm sorry text Dne sent out 595 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: as a goodbye message. It's all speculation, but if someone 596 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: texts things like what what does that mean to is 597 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: there there should be a concern there that his emotional 598 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: state is not normal. He went on to admit that 599 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: he didn't actually know the context of that message, but 600 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: it was clear what he thought it meant and how 601 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: it framed his view of Dane's death and my Misha. 602 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: I bet most people in the media, I've never talked 603 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: to her, no one's ever questioned her about this this 604 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: this dialogue. Ironically, he also pointed out that he hadn't 605 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: seen anyone in the media mentioning this text or asking 606 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: Militia about it, but we did, and Militia is convinced 607 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 1: that the I'm sorry text had to do with Danye 608 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: not giving her much time or attention when she visited 609 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 1: with her son earlier that day. Part of the credibility 610 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: granted to the medical examiner system is that it's not 611 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: just a site investigator and a pathologist determining a cause 612 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: and manner of death, but a third party, the chief 613 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, must review the case materials and sign off 614 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: on them. For St. Louis County, that person is Dr 615 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: Mary Case. For us, there was a slight concern that 616 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 1: maybe an entire investigation could go undone because one person's 617 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: presumption at the scene of a death would affect the 618 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: next person's, which would affect the next person's, which would 619 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: sort of render certain checks and balances meaningless. You think 620 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: for zooming, when somebody has when there's a legal mechanism 621 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: that someone uses and it works, like holding a gun 622 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: to your head or putting a rope around your neck, 623 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: that that is, you know, rather overwhelming. Now, if there 624 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: is evidence to the contrary, certainly that would be further investigated. 625 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: But this office has never been presented with any other information. 626 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: For someone to say, well, that sheet didn't come from 627 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: my house, that's not going to dissuade me from the 628 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: fact that that was a suicide. One of the things 629 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: that we found interesting was that Dr Case hadn't heard 630 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: about the DNA swabs taken from the bed sheet. Were 631 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: there swabs or any samples taken in this case, I 632 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: don't know, but I would I wouldn't very much doubt 633 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: it if I can talk about that real quick. When 634 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 1: they say that she didn't come from their house. We 635 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: have found in the course of our investigation that there 636 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: was DNA hold off of that sheet, and it was 637 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: Donny's DNA and then an unidentified males DNA. But to me, 638 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: the one thing that sort of stands out is that 639 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: not only does Melissa claim that they just don't have 640 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: extra sheets in the house, they just have enough for 641 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: the beds, but her DNA is not on that sheet. 642 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 1: They didn't find any unidentified female DNA, and she's the 643 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,879 Speaker 1: one who does all the houses laundry. It's pretty hard 644 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: to prove the negative. Like I didn't own that, and 645 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: they weren't ever told that DNA was tested on it. 646 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: It was something that we found out and then that 647 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: we told them and never made the medical examiners report. 648 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: You weren't even aware of No, we never get, we 649 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: never get any of it. But wouldn't you know that 650 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: if we don't get, we never gets. That doesn't interact 651 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: with our decisions. That's not how we base our decisions. 652 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 1: Let's pause here for a second. This is bizarre. The 653 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's office is responsible for determining cause in a 654 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: manner of death. A second or third set of d 655 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: n A on a lethal instrument could in fact be 656 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: the evidence they need to move a determination from suicide 657 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: to homicide or at least to undetermined. It could be 658 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: the evidence they claim they are yet to see, couldn't 659 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 1: it so why such little interest? Dr Norfleet had told 660 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: us that, with a lack of trauma to the body, 661 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: his determination was made largely around the statements given to 662 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: the medical investigator. Of course, Danya's family says they didn't 663 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: say the things that are in the report, or at 664 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: least didn't say them in the way that they are reported. 665 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: So we mentioned this to Dr case. My question would 666 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: be about the investigative method to get those statements, because 667 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: the family agrees that they talked about those things, but 668 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: they don't agree that they stated them in a way 669 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,479 Speaker 1: that they were weighing on him to an extent where 670 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: it seemed like they were bothering him that much. When 671 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: the investigator is speaking with a family members, they you know, 672 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: they're kind of asking about the state of mind and 673 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: you know what's going on, and so those things were 674 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: brought out. Obviously this is not a psychiatric interview, but 675 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: those were statements that were made and they're noted. It 676 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that that is the motivation. I guess the 677 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: problem for them is that other things that are sort 678 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: of positive going on in the person's life don't get noted, 679 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: and then when the police refer to this, So like 680 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 1: when the St. Louis County Police make statements about the case, 681 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: they refer to the medical examiner's report, so they go, well, yeah, 682 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at it, he was depressed. 683 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: I would say that none of that made this a suicide. 684 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: What made this a suicide was there is a man 685 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: hanging in his backyard from a tree. Now, if you 686 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: have evidence that somebody did that, I will be happy 687 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: to change that. Back in episode one, Sergeant Sean McGuire 688 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: defended the police department's assessment that Donie died by suicide 689 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: by referencing the medical examiner's report and now the pathologist 690 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: the chief medical examiners say that they based their work 691 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: and the evidence brought to them by the police. I 692 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: guess it's just for what seemed to be is that 693 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 1: it can kind of become sort of a self reinforcing 694 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: circle where if like police start presuming that there's no 695 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: need to look for further evidence and then you're not, 696 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: that means you're not getting any further evidence. And I 697 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: will say this that do you know how many suicides 698 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 1: do we have a year? I'm sure it's a lot. 699 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: We looked it up according to county police data, it's 700 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: about sixty we have. We have a lot of them, 701 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: and when we have them, there is a certain amount 702 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: of investigation, but it is not much more than this. 703 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: There's just one more thing. And maybe this is minor, 704 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 1: but it bugged us. Danye's uncle, Daniel, had taken photos 705 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: of Danye hanging from the tree because Daniae's pants were 706 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: down around his ankles and this seems strange to him. 707 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: Dr Case touched on this point when she was reviewing 708 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 1: the report over the phone. With us, and in the 709 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: photo apparently the pants were around the ankles. And I 710 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: would say that you're hanging up in a tree and 711 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: your pants are sagging anyway, they may well fall down 712 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: because they're If you don't hold them up, they're going 713 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: to fall down. This assumption that Donya's pants were sagging, 714 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: that he would ordinarily need to hold them up, it 715 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: seems a bit racist. I'm not trying to smear dr case, 716 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: but she does seem to be just presuming that because 717 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: Donya is black, he SAgs his pants and that this 718 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: must be the reason they were found around his ankles. 719 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: And I explained that this wasn't the case. She just 720 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: sort of moves on, Well, they were actually like elastic 721 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: waist pan pants that had a draw string, and they 722 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: found it because they appeared to have been rolled at 723 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 1: least like two or three times at the waist, which 724 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 1: is what they found to be strange. See what else 725 00:41:53,760 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: sit here? So what does all this mean? This he 726 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: said she said about Danye's life and mental state between 727 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: his family and the medical examiner staff. This text message 728 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: that might be a final goodbye or might just be 729 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,280 Speaker 1: a casual apology for an action already taken. This second 730 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: set of male DNA that was found on the bedsheet 731 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,879 Speaker 1: danya was hanged with that could be from his uncle 732 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: or his stepfather, or from a potential conspirator in a 733 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: murder made to look like a suicide. We are reminded 734 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, which is the idea that 735 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: people only look at pieces of evidence that confirm their hypothesis. 736 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: It's based on an old joke about a Texan who 737 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: shoots several times at the side of a barn and 738 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: then paints a bull's eye around the bullet holes, claims 739 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,279 Speaker 1: to be a sharpshooter. Her Melissa and the rest of 740 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: Danyae's family only seeing what they want to see. When 741 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 1: the c D full of photographs from the Uckle Examiner's 742 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: office showed up, we looked them over again and again. No, 743 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: we couldn't see any bruises on Danyae's body, not on 744 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: his face or on his wrists. But we also saw 745 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: the way the sheet was tied into the tree, and yes, 746 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: it did look like a strange, unintuitive Figure eight system. 747 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: Was the Medical Examiner's office negligent for having untied it 748 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: and tossed it in the body bag alongside Danya's body. 749 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,239 Speaker 1: Did this demonstrate that from the get go no one 750 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: was taking the possibility of homicide seriously? What about the 751 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: county police tasked with investigating the scene and circumstances of 752 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: Danya's death? Did they bring all of their resources and 753 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: efforts to bear If not, why not? We're not naive. 754 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: Of course, these people are busy, they have a lot 755 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: of cases and their professionals doctors. But it's hard not 756 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: to think that maybe some cases should have a higher 757 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: threshold of evidence than others. Maybe when we remember to 758 00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: apply social and historical context and see that a death 759 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,800 Speaker 1: greatly mirrors a racist lynching, we should expect local governments 760 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 1: to look a little harder, to scratch a little deeper, 761 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: just in case. Why wouldn't they? That's next time and 762 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: After the Uprising. After the Uprising is directed, produced, investigated, 763 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: written and reported by myself, Raino the shell Ski and 764 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 1: John Duffy. John Duffy was also the editor. Dave Cassidy 765 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: was producer. Sound engineering design and mixed by Josh Condon. 766 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: Executive producers were Matt McDonough and Tina x Ros. For 767 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: now This, Brett Kushner for Group nine Media, and Jess 768 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: Borov was executive in charge of production. Jonathan Hartwig and 769 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,880 Speaker 1: Bradley Rayford were consulting producers. Eliza Craig was assistant producer 770 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: and did additional reporting. Malory Keenoy was a writer's assistant, 771 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: Kristen McVicker and Taya Wilson were production assistants, and Hailey 772 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,400 Speaker 1: klez R was a post production assistant. Fact checking by 773 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: Alison Humes, theme song and other music by Zachary Walter, 774 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: legal by Keith Sclar and Peter Yazy. Special thanks to 775 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: Ann Frado, Danny Gonzalez, Barbara Copple, Alex Lester, Bethan Macaluso, 776 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: Emily maronof Ruth Vaka, and the Reporter's Committee for Freedom 777 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,840 Speaker 1: of the Press. After the Uprising is a production of 778 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: Double asterisk I Heart Media and Now This in association 779 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: with True Stories. You can find us on Twitter and Facebook. 780 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: If you have useful information about the death of Danye 781 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: Jones or anything we've covered, please leave a message on 782 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: our tip line at three four seven six seven four 783 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 1: seven four zero one.