WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Tupac and Biggie 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:16.439 Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories of things 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:21.440 we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:26.840 to another episode of Thinking Sideways, the podcast the podcast 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:32.080 in music. Yeah, I'm Devin, joined this week by Steve 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.440 and a departure from normal times where it's Joe and 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:39.680 then Steve. Yeah, And we're going to talk about an 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.000 unsolved mystery, which I know is shocking to most of you. Okay, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.120 this is a pretty twisty one. It's a pretty big one. Um, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.519 some of you may or may not know of it. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.320 You probably know of the people that it involves. I 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.520 really would be shocked if nobody, if somebody didn't know 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:57.480 who at least one of these people, I would too, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.080 but hey, who knows. Also, before we get too far 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:03.040 into it, and by too far, I mean even into 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:07.720 it at all. This was a listener suggestion from Jody 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.640 on Facebook. Thanks Jody. This is one of those mysteries 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.120 that I had always thought about doing, but always kind 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.839 of thought maybe our listeners wouldn't be interested. But we're 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.760 just gonna do it anyways. You know, honestly, I never 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.760 I never knew the mystery, and I didn't realize how 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.360 far this thing win. No, I didn't either. It's it's 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.640 pretty confident that there's a lot of players in this, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.200 a lot of moving parts. Yeah, and you know, by 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.480 popular demand, since apparently you guys love really long episodes, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.640 we're going to try and make this as long as possible. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.880 In case you didn't read the episode title, we're gonna 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:51.200 be talking about the unsolved murders of Tupac Shakur and 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.680 Biggie Smalls a k a. The Notorious b I G. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.360 A k a a k a. Christopher Wallace. Yes, a 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.360 lot of a kas in here, Yeah, just every every player. 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.360 But yeah, I'm gonna for convenience sake, in case you 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.280 might easily get confused, it's going to be Tupac or 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.480 Poc and Biggie or b I G. That's probably a 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.840 good thing. Yeah, And I was, I was reading to 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.040 all the stuff about this, you know, and I was like, okay, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.200 Notorious b I G. Right on. Then later on they 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:23.560 referred to referred to as Biggie Smalls. I'm going, okay, 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.200 is that the same guy? Was? It was confusing? Yeah, 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.720 So I'm gonna try and keep it um as consistent 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.320 as possible, but just also as a disclaimer. I am 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.480 a huge hip hop fan, and particularly Wrapped from the 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.760 mid nineties era is kind of where my love started. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.720 And so sometimes I just start calling people different things 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.600 because I knew them as different things. But yeah, no, 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.960 I just say I cut my teeth on Wrapping in 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.200 the late eighties early nineties, and the same thing I 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:54.040 kept catching myself, all right. Uh. And I'm also not 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:58.240 totally sure how to start this episode because there's so 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.400 many different ways. So I guess there's a lot of 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.400 information out there. Just talk fast. I'll just talk really fast. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.440 That's not gonna happen. We're gonna I guess we'll start 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.160 by just kind of doing the cliff notes of Tupac 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.639 and Biggie. That's probably good. Plea, you guys. Cool. Let's 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.000 start with Tupac. Tupac grew up in what most would 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.840 call a broken home. His biological father walked out of 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.320 his life when he was I think five, maybe younger. Yeah, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.280 His mom wasn't um, was addicted to crack, and they 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.560 moved around a lot Cheapac spent a fair amount of 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.839 his childhood around people who had been or were very 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:36.800 active members of the Black Panthers. See we feel like 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.280 we need to talk about what the Black Panthers are. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.320 I think everybody knows what the Black Panthers were. I 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:45.360 think most people know, if you don't Wikipedia, many or 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:49.360 most of them were also convicted felons. Um, we don't 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.000 really need to talk about that too much. But Cheepac 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.000 was by all accounts also an incredible talent, kind of 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.600 from the start. At twelve, he was cast as Travis 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.960 Younger in a play that some of you may know 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.280 about called A Raisin in the Sun and performed at 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.680 the Apollo Theater in New York City, which is a 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.160 pretty big deal for a twelve year old. When his 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.360 family moved to Baltimore, he attended the Baltimore School for 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:15.600 the Arts, where he studied things like jazz and ballet. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.760 He was, in fact the Rat King and the Nutcracker. Uh. 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.440 He also studied poetry and acting and apparently was a 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:26.800 really talented Shakespearean actor. And I think this description of 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.960 him doesn't sound like what you would expect from a 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.800 kind of gangster apper. It's it's kind of a shame 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:36.960 you got shot. Obviously a talented guy he was, and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.080 he also became really good friends at the Baltimore School 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.479 of the Arts with Jada Pinkett now Jada Pinkett Smith, 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.520 will Smith's wife, Willio Smith's mom for those of you 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.360 who are like really young. Tupac moved to California and 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.800 was eventually got a gig as a did roadie for 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:00.520 the Digital Underground. You guys remember Digital Underground? Yes, actually 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.000 you're kidding, what's no? No, we're not going to go there. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.920 All right, let's talk about it later. This ended up 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.640 being really huge because he appeared on a song called 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.440 the Same Song, and that's generally considered to be the 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.040 launch of his career, was being in a Digital Underground 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.119 song called the Same Song. His career, I would say, 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.120 as they say, is history. If you guys don't know 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.480 who Tupac is, I'd be shocked and probably a little offended. 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.880 I wouldn't. I think Tupac is probably one of the 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.160 most famous musicians of all times. Well, he's one of 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:40.039 the great selling but I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.640 that way. I mean, people have their own musical interests 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.120 and they don't always bleed over. I mean there's there's 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.760 giant country stars that I have no idea who they are, 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:54.560 and I've never heard of so I guess that's fair. Yeah, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.080 that's fair. I well, okay, I think that he was 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:00.599 one of the most famous musicians in the entire world 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.840 of all times. His music has been definitely heard all 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.120 around the world, and his influence on artists is really undeniable. 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:11.440 It's just a solid fact, and that bridges genres as well. 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:15.760 It's not just in the hip hop community, though, in fairness, 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.279 it's probably not in the country community so much. Uh. 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.039 And like I said already, I'm in I'm kind of 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:25.159 a huge fan of Tupacs, and I think that the 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.920 loss of his talent is like a really actual, legitimate tragedy. Yeah. 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.479 I do believe that he wouldn't have stayed a gangster rapper, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:35.279 but I think that, like a lot of guys that 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.320 came from that a scene, originally, he would have spun 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.800 up into something really phenomenal. Yeah, you never know. I 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:43.920 could have done the whole music thing for a while 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.480 and then become an actor. He actually was an actor. 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:49.680 There's in a couple of movies. Yeah, and he and 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.120 he was a trained Shakespearean actor and things like that. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.039 I think that his talent would have been one for 0:06:54.080 --> 0:07:00.400 the ages had he lived past how old. I'm also 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.400 going to go ahead and mention and we'll talk a 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.839 little bit more about this when we start talking about Biggie. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.880 But they were friends, they were very good friends. There's 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.640 this interview with Biggie talking about Tupac after his death, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:17.080 and I when I listened to it and watch it particularly, 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.480 I guess watch it the listening, it's, you know, bigg 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.040 he's talking about Tupac and his death. But when I 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.880 watch it, it's like, I don't know, it just seems 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.320 like he really really you can see it on his 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.520 face and his causes and the way he's trying to 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.680 figure out how to say the words where an audio 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.360 just uncomfort cross unless he was a great actor to Yeah, 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.040 that's that legitimately, I'm sad about the whole thing, yea, 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.280 which what sort of undermines the whole idea that they 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.960 were enemies right ahead of the script here, Yeah a 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:47.040 little yeah. Anyways, there was a rivalry in the rap 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.000 industry that tore the two apart. And this rivalry can 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.040 be traced pretty much to one man, one night, one speech. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.880 Though it had been brewing for a while. It had 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.800 been brewing, but really just kind of blew up, uh 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:05.240 and enter Suge Knights. What a lovely gentleman. Suge Knight is. Yeah. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:11.320 At the Source Awards, he was awarded something and this 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.040 is how he decided to say his acceptance speech. And 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.200 I've watched videos of this. Literally he walks up to Mike, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.560 says this, and walks off. He walks up to the 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.680 mic and he says, any artist out there that wants 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.960 to be an artist and stay a star and don't 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.240 have to worry about the executive producers trying to be 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:31.480 all in the videos on all the records dancing, come 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.959 to death Row and then walks off stage because death 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.760 Row was the name of his label. Death Row was 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:43.280 the name of the recording company that Suge Knight was 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:47.559 the executive for at that point. Yeah, because I mean 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.280 that that statement that he made and then you know, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.560 just troops off stage and the crowd is booing. That 0:08:55.840 --> 0:09:01.120 change the tone of that entire award. Everybody got up 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.240 at that Ord show. Every time it wasn't thank you, 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.720 and I'd like to thank God and my mom and 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:10.240 whoever suddenly was. No, the East Coast is better, No, 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.520 the West Coast is better. Oh you don't like so 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.000 and so, and it just the whole thing just went down. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.120 The tune really did. And so let's just to clarify, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:24.160 puff Daddy Sean P Diddy Combs, what what are we 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.320 calling him? From here on forward? So we get a 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:31.040 consistent P Diddy puff Daddy. I don't know, I don't 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.360 We're not going to talk too much. I wasn't I 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.679 wasn't sure. But he ran an East Coast recording label 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.599 called bad Boy, and Suge Knight ran the label that 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.880 Tupac was on. Death Row. Biggy was signed to Bad 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.319 Boy and was I think a kind of a founding 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.600 member Tupac. We'll talk about Tupac and death Row in 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:55.640 a minute, but suffice to say, for whatever reason, bad 0:09:55.720 --> 0:10:01.080 Boy and death Row we're hating on each other. And 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.080 death Row was in Los Angeles, right, Yeah, they were 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.200 the West Coast. They were the West Coast side of it. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.160 In the year prior to his death, Tupac, We're sorry, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:16.280 We're going back to Tupac. Tupac became increasingly reclusive and 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.640 kind of seemed to be losing it. There are a 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.680 lot of home videos that you can watch of Tupac 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.200 from all different times in his life, and most of 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.680 them are him just being kind of an entertainer and 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.800 being happy. He was laughing, making other people laugh, smiling, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.200 kind of really just enjoying life and really having fun, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:41.680 very outgoing, really just really a born entertainer personality, huge personality. 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.960 And then in the home videos kind of from you 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.560 can see him more agitated. Really. There are some videos 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.080 that he just he's in a studio after having recorded 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.600 sixty seven tracks in a month. I think it was 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.040 where he's just kind of lost it, like he just 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.200 is pacing back and forth and babbling about nonsense and 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:06.040 just screaming at people and being really annoyed. There's another 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.120 video where you can see him spitting at paparazzi later 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.120 that same month. It was not a good video, and 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.120 many people feel that this decline was fueled by Suge Knight, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.439 who had kind of been cutting Tupac off from his 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:25.679 family and friends. How that well, so he had a 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.520 pretty strict contract with Tupac, and remember he made him 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.920 live in he specified the apartment he was supposed to 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.640 live in, right, And you know, we'll talk again more 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.480 about this when we start talking about Suge Knight a 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:43.160 little bit more but essentially what happened is Suge Knight 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:46.520 managed to control Tupac's life for a little while through 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.280 a monetary gift kind of that didn't really ever materialize 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:53.480 really just kind of had him in his grip. Yeah, 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.200 he really did. Also, Suge Knight was a huge dude 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.880 and had huge influence in the community, huge, huge, violent 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.880 friends too. Yeah, so it would be not a situation 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.880 that you would necessarily push back too hard on. Was 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.360 not a dude that you would want to have an 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:13.360 argument with because he's like six seven not he's still alive. 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.760 And I meant in that situation where he's the executive 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.760 used to be an NFL football player, he's that of 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:28.320 that high Yeah, he's yeah, nothing but muscle or was. 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.080 I don't know about now. But so let's go ahead 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.360 and just pause there on Tupac. Cliff notes Tupac's life, 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.920 All right, let's cliff note Biggie's life. Biggie Smalls a 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.120 k A. The Notorious b I G a k A. 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.760 Biggie a k A. Christopher Wallace. Not confusing at all, 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.160 not at all. I'm just gonna call him all of 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:56.040 those things. Yeah, So Biggest Small was born to a no, 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.840 So Biggie was actually also born to black panther parent, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.280 but he had a pretty stable home life. His father 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:09.439 wasn't in the picture really. He was a Jamaican politician 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:15.000 kind of guy too. But his mom was a kindergarten 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:21.200 school teacher and she really did anything the Biggie wanted. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.920 He did not have a hard life. Uh No. She 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.000 she was a pretty strong lady, and she kept control 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.280 of things and she had it all in order. She did. 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.520 And you know, she also made a fine living. And 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.640 she only had one son, and they they just had 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.920 a really strong connection, is from everything I can tell. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.280 Obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:49.640 But although allegedly Biggie started selling drugs when he was twelve, 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.959 that I think the fact is a bit murky. I mean, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.800 it's on the Wikipedia page, but I've read and heard 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.160 interviews with his friends and family, and most of him 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.440 say that that's not true. Whether that's a them trying 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.720 to protect his reputation though he was a gangster rapper, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.880 so like, I'm not sure that that protects his reputation 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:14.080 not much. I'm not sure. I got the feeling that 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.680 it was more of a boast once he became he 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.720 got on the rap scene, it was kind of a 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.680 boast because he made bows in his songs about how 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.680 he lived terrible and he lived in a shack when 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.800 that was not the case at all. Well. He yeah, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:36.480 he definitely created a story for the Notorious b I. G. Right, 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.760 So the childhood that Christopher Wallace had was not the 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:44.000 childhood that the Notorious b I. G. Or Biggie Smalls had. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.360 Artists do that all the time. It's not unheard of 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.760 at all. He originally attended a private Roman Catholic school, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.160 but asked to be transferred to a public school partway 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:57.040 through his time in high school and started to actually 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.200 kind of his His grade stayed good. He had a 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.880 good student but he did fall in with maybe a 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.480 rougher crowd. He ran into trouble with a lot seventeen. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.320 I spent some time in jail, but he'd been wrapping 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.200 on the streets with his friends and started to gain notoriety. 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.320 He participated in rap battles and things like that and 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:22.880 just kind of grew in the industry. He signed with 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.160 Bad Boy Records and that that was a kind of 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.360 a founding move. As we talked about It was early 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.720 in the Bad Boy days, and he was kind of 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.000 the bigger talent that they had brought in. He rose 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.720 to prominence over the next few years and became definitely 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.840 one of the most popular artists on Bad Boy. Bad 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.960 Boy had a lot of artists that you know now, 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.000 lots of names that you definitely would recognize. It it was, 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.160 it was. It was a great incubator for a lot 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.520 of big really was, and they all kind of fueled 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.600 each other's creativity and really did a great job. But 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:57.600 at the time Biggie Smalls was, you know, in the 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:03.280 mid to late nineties, while they were alive, Biggie and 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:08.080 Tupac were really it. It remains to be seen, or 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.240 you know, it would have remained to be seen if 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.200 that would have stayed that way, or if these other 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.200 talents would have kind of come to the scene and 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.080 it would have flushed out a little bit more. But 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:21.240 they were the two that people really were into. In 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.040 nine four, Biggie and Tupac met. I think they did 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:28.600 a collaboration and they became really good friends really fast. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:34.160 In ninety four, Tupac was with a different recording label 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:39.040 than he than he wasn't with death row yet, Okay, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.800 just making sure I had that right. Biggie, it turns out, 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.880 was actually good friends with a lot of unexpected people, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.880 Like he was really good friends with Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.840 they were really good friends. Actually Shaquille O'Neale was on 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.200 his way to meet Biggie when Biggie got killed. But yeah, 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:02.040 lots of unexpected friendships there. But the friendship, it seems 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.800 between Biggie and Cheepac seemed kind of unpublicized. You know, 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.919 people knew that they were friendly, but I think to 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.320 what degree people didn't really know. Uh. They apparently were 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.880 frequently at each other's houses, they traveled with each other 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.320 all the time, they worked to further each other's career, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.440 and they were quote constantly together whenever either of them 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.199 were in each other's town. And this comes from firsthand 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.920 accounts of close family and friends of both Biggie and Cheepaw. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.680 And there's some speculation that the feud that we've kind 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:36.919 of touched on earlier was actually just for show that 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.440 they never stopped being friends, but that having a big 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:45.359 old feud between two warring rappers might do something good 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.840 for your career. And right, also, they might also be better, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.240 like say, if you work for somebody like like sug 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.399 like Sugar and Death Row, you know, and then butt 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.760 your buddies with somebody on Bad Boy Well, you might 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.479 not like that, and you might have to kind of, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:01.639 you know, for the sake of appearances, pretend to I 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:03.800 really hate the guy. That's what Bad Boy Well I 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:05.600 was also going to say is think about there's a 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.080 lot of entertainment industries that do that, and the one 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.240 that I'll point to professional wrestle. Yeah, which is true. 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.720 I mean, we all know here, but as a twelve 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.600 year old, I didn't know that Hulk Hogan didn't really 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.840 hate Andre the Giant and the buddies, but it made 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:28.000 for great publicity. Yeah, so there's a little bit of 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.400 speculation there. There's not a whole lot of bassis to it. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:33.879 It's just a sense that some people have gotten that 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:39.080 it would be hard for something to go so wrong 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.800 that these two really fast friends would have just walked 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.960 away from their friendship. I can see reasons why, but 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.200 I know we're going to get into some of that. Yeah, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.400 let's just talk about right now. Okay. November, while Tupac 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.280 was recording in a studio, he was shot five times 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.720 and robbed of thousands of dollars worth of jewelry, and 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.359 Tupac apparently said that Biggie knew that this was going 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.000 to happen and that he had even planned it. Biggie 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.800 of course denied it and was quoted as saying later that, 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:13.159 um Tupac quote just he just couldn't really say who 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.439 had something to do with it at the time, So 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.960 Tupac had just kind of leaned in and blamed Biggie, 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.679 I don't know who it is. Well you must know 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.440 who it is. Is that what I am reading that 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:30.000 to say, I, you know, I interpret it as Biggie saying, uh, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.560 Tupac knew who did it, but wasn't in a position 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:37.119 to bad mouth said did it? Like maybe hey, it 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.719 was that crappy manager that he had that ripped him 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.280 off all the time and orchestrated something. Yeah, like a 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:50.840 guy named Suge Knight. I should maybe maybe we should 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.879 like be taking the scientology route on this one, and 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:57.240 I should just be like backpedaling possible, because like Suge 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.280 Knight exists in the real world, and I don't really 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.080 want to be on his eight list in this particular situation. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.880 I think we're saved because this is all based on 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.719 the research, and this is all based on what people 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.320 have given interviews to say. So in this this instance, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.199 I'm not worried that Joke Knight's gonna know where we are. 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.680 Plus I gave out Joe's address. Yeah. Plus you can't really, 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.360 you can't really sue us because this is all out 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.240 there the public's true. Yeah. Anyway, the rivalry had been 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.320 kind of brewing between East Coast and West Coast rappers, 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.960 and no, it hadn't reached its head. It hadn't reached 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:34.480 its head at that point. Now. The reason that Tupac 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:40.119 thought that Biggie knew something about this was because in 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.560 Biggie released a song that you most certainly know of 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:50.280 his called Big Papa. The B side of this single 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:55.640 was a song called who Shot You? And this did 0:20:55.680 --> 0:21:00.480 not sit super well with Tupac. He was pretty sure 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.600 that the song was meant to be a taunt. I've 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.520 heard that it was even recorded in the same studio, 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:09.920 not the like actual physical soundbox studio, but the same 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.399 I don't know what the recording student studio building. I 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:18.000 guess that Tupac was shot in. This is not true. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:24.080 The documents that quote proved that Biggie was recording in 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.399 that studio that night. They were they were faked. I 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.840 had heard that he actually recorded who Shot before the 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.280 shooting actually took place. Yeah, well that's actually the next 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.800 point that I was going to bring up, is that 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.840 the truth of who Shot You is that it was 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.919 actually recorded years prior and it was meant to be 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:45.879 an intro to a Mary J. Blige album. And I 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:49.600 don't know if Tupac ever knew that I Gotta be 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.399 Illness with You. I listened to it. I didn't hear 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:57.639 anything that that I could even remotely connect to Tupac 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.680 in terms of a taunt. Maybe not Tupac specifically, but 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:08.560 it is about a dude getting shot, and in this 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.280 particular genre music, there's a lot of people getting shot. 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.600 There's a is hubris the right word to to assume 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.560 that they're talking about you? It is exactly the right way. Okay, 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.280 that's that's so. I guess we so, I guess we 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.000 have the two theories right. Either the feud was real 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:31.719 or was fake. I think that it was real in 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.119 that Tupac thought it was real, and I think that 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.680 it caused Biggie genuine pain that his friend was kind 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:42.840 of walking away from the friendship. That's just a total 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.560 personal perception of my own. I don't have anything to 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:47.680 back it up, but I do think that Tupac was 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.679 being influenced by a lot of people around him and 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.080 probably some drugs around him, and it caused him. It 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.040 caused him to really alienate people who really cared for 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.760 him and forge kind of relationships that maybe didn't have 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.040 his best interests at art. Yeah, I do think that 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:08.600 maybe Tupac was indulging in drugs a little bit much. 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.320 And the reason I say that is you see him 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:14.600 in a lot of videos and he's either smoking a 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:19.120 rollie or he's smoking a joint, And there's there's things 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.159 where he was at a ward shows that everybody was 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:26.919 puffing and it was not an uncommon thing for people 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:31.040 to lace pot with angel dust at the time. So 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:35.360 I really feel like, whether he knew it or not, 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:40.240 he was on a lot more than he probably intended 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.520 to be. Yeah, that's possible. Let's talk about some other 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:49.600