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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't you never know stories of things

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Speaker 1: we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways, the podcast the podcast

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Speaker 1: in music. Yeah, I'm Devin, joined this week by Steve

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Speaker 1: and a departure from normal times where it's Joe and

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Speaker 1: then Steve. Yeah, And we're going to talk about an

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Speaker 1: unsolved mystery, which I know is shocking to most of you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a pretty twisty one. It's a pretty big one. Um,

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Speaker 1: some of you may or may not know of it.

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Speaker 1: You probably know of the people that it involves. I

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Speaker 1: really would be shocked if nobody, if somebody didn't know

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Speaker 1: who at least one of these people, I would too,

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Speaker 1: but hey, who knows. Also, before we get too far

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Speaker 1: into it, and by too far, I mean even into

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Speaker 1: it at all. This was a listener suggestion from Jody

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. Thanks Jody. This is one of those mysteries

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Speaker 1: that I had always thought about doing, but always kind

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Speaker 1: of thought maybe our listeners wouldn't be interested. But we're

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Speaker 1: just gonna do it anyways. You know, honestly, I never

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Speaker 1: I never knew the mystery, and I didn't realize how

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Speaker 1: far this thing win. No, I didn't either. It's it's

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Speaker 1: pretty confident that there's a lot of players in this,

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Speaker 1: a lot of moving parts. Yeah, and you know, by

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Speaker 1: popular demand, since apparently you guys love really long episodes,

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Speaker 1: we're going to try and make this as long as possible.

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Speaker 1: In case you didn't read the episode title, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about the unsolved murders of Tupac Shakur and

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Speaker 1: Biggie Smalls a k a. The Notorious b I G.

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Speaker 1: A k a a k a. Christopher Wallace. Yes, a

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Speaker 1: lot of a kas in here, Yeah, just every every player.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm gonna for convenience sake, in case you

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Speaker 1: might easily get confused, it's going to be Tupac or

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Speaker 1: Poc and Biggie or b I G. That's probably a

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Speaker 1: good thing. Yeah, And I was, I was reading to

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Speaker 1: all the stuff about this, you know, and I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: Notorious b I G. Right on. Then later on they

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Speaker 1: referred to referred to as Biggie Smalls. I'm going, okay,

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Speaker 1: is that the same guy? Was? It was confusing? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna try and keep it um as consistent

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Speaker 1: as possible, but just also as a disclaimer. I am

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Speaker 1: a huge hip hop fan, and particularly Wrapped from the

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Speaker 1: mid nineties era is kind of where my love started.

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Speaker 1: And so sometimes I just start calling people different things

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Speaker 1: because I knew them as different things. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I just say I cut my teeth on Wrapping in

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Speaker 1: the late eighties early nineties, and the same thing I

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Speaker 1: kept catching myself, all right. Uh. And I'm also not

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Speaker 1: totally sure how to start this episode because there's so

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Speaker 1: many different ways. So I guess there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: information out there. Just talk fast. I'll just talk really fast.

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Speaker 1: That's not gonna happen. We're gonna I guess we'll start

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Speaker 1: by just kind of doing the cliff notes of Tupac

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Speaker 1: and Biggie. That's probably good. Plea, you guys. Cool. Let's

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Speaker 1: start with Tupac. Tupac grew up in what most would

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Speaker 1: call a broken home. His biological father walked out of

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Speaker 1: his life when he was I think five, maybe younger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: His mom wasn't um, was addicted to crack, and they

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Speaker 1: moved around a lot Cheapac spent a fair amount of

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Speaker 1: his childhood around people who had been or were very

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Speaker 1: active members of the Black Panthers. See we feel like

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Speaker 1: we need to talk about what the Black Panthers are.

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Speaker 1: I think everybody knows what the Black Panthers were. I

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Speaker 1: think most people know, if you don't Wikipedia, many or

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Speaker 1: most of them were also convicted felons. Um, we don't

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Speaker 1: really need to talk about that too much. But Cheepac

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Speaker 1: was by all accounts also an incredible talent, kind of

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Speaker 1: from the start. At twelve, he was cast as Travis

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Speaker 1: Younger in a play that some of you may know

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Speaker 1: about called A Raisin in the Sun and performed at

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Speaker 1: the Apollo Theater in New York City, which is a

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Speaker 1: pretty big deal for a twelve year old. When his

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Speaker 1: family moved to Baltimore, he attended the Baltimore School for

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Speaker 1: the Arts, where he studied things like jazz and ballet.

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Speaker 1: He was, in fact the Rat King and the Nutcracker. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He also studied poetry and acting and apparently was a

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Speaker 1: really talented Shakespearean actor. And I think this description of

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Speaker 1: him doesn't sound like what you would expect from a

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Speaker 1: kind of gangster apper. It's it's kind of a shame

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Speaker 1: you got shot. Obviously a talented guy he was, and

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Speaker 1: he also became really good friends at the Baltimore School

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Speaker 1: of the Arts with Jada Pinkett now Jada Pinkett Smith,

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Speaker 1: will Smith's wife, Willio Smith's mom for those of you

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Speaker 1: who are like really young. Tupac moved to California and

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Speaker 1: was eventually got a gig as a did roadie for

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Speaker 1: the Digital Underground. You guys remember Digital Underground? Yes, actually

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Speaker 1: you're kidding, what's no? No, we're not going to go there.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about it later. This ended up

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Speaker 1: being really huge because he appeared on a song called

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Speaker 1: the Same Song, and that's generally considered to be the

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Speaker 1: launch of his career, was being in a Digital Underground

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Speaker 1: song called the Same Song. His career, I would say,

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Speaker 1: as they say, is history. If you guys don't know

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Speaker 1: who Tupac is, I'd be shocked and probably a little offended.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I think Tupac is probably one of the

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Speaker 1: most famous musicians of all times. Well, he's one of

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Speaker 1: the great selling but I wouldn't. I wouldn't put it

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Speaker 1: that way. I mean, people have their own musical interests

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Speaker 1: and they don't always bleed over. I mean there's there's

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Speaker 1: giant country stars that I have no idea who they are,

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Speaker 1: and I've never heard of so I guess that's fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's fair. I well, okay, I think that he was

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Speaker 1: one of the most famous musicians in the entire world

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Speaker 1: of all times. His music has been definitely heard all

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Speaker 1: around the world, and his influence on artists is really undeniable.

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Speaker 1: It's just a solid fact, and that bridges genres as well.

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Speaker 1: It's not just in the hip hop community, though, in fairness,

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Speaker 1: it's probably not in the country community so much. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And like I said already, I'm in I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: a huge fan of Tupacs, and I think that the

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Speaker 1: loss of his talent is like a really actual, legitimate tragedy. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I do believe that he wouldn't have stayed a gangster rapper,

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Speaker 1: but I think that, like a lot of guys that

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Speaker 1: came from that a scene, originally, he would have spun

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Speaker 1: up into something really phenomenal. Yeah, you never know. I

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Speaker 1: could have done the whole music thing for a while

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Speaker 1: and then become an actor. He actually was an actor.

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Speaker 1: There's in a couple of movies. Yeah, and he and

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Speaker 1: he was a trained Shakespearean actor and things like that.

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Speaker 1: I think that his talent would have been one for

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Speaker 1: the ages had he lived past how old. I'm also

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Speaker 1: going to go ahead and mention and we'll talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about this when we start talking about Biggie.

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Speaker 1: But they were friends, they were very good friends. There's

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Speaker 1: this interview with Biggie talking about Tupac after his death,

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Speaker 1: and I when I listened to it and watch it particularly,

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Speaker 1: I guess watch it the listening, it's, you know, bigg

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Speaker 1: he's talking about Tupac and his death. But when I

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Speaker 1: watch it, it's like, I don't know, it just seems

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Speaker 1: like he really really you can see it on his

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Speaker 1: face and his causes and the way he's trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to say the words where an audio

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Speaker 1: just uncomfort cross unless he was a great actor to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that legitimately, I'm sad about the whole thing, yea,

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Speaker 1: which what sort of undermines the whole idea that they

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Speaker 1: were enemies right ahead of the script here, Yeah a

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Speaker 1: little yeah. Anyways, there was a rivalry in the rap

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Speaker 1: industry that tore the two apart. And this rivalry can

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Speaker 1: be traced pretty much to one man, one night, one speech.

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Speaker 1: Though it had been brewing for a while. It had

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Speaker 1: been brewing, but really just kind of blew up, uh

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Speaker 1: and enter Suge Knights. What a lovely gentleman. Suge Knight is. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: At the Source Awards, he was awarded something and this

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Speaker 1: is how he decided to say his acceptance speech. And

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Speaker 1: I've watched videos of this. Literally he walks up to Mike,

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Speaker 1: says this, and walks off. He walks up to the

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Speaker 1: mic and he says, any artist out there that wants

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Speaker 1: to be an artist and stay a star and don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about the executive producers trying to be

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Speaker 1: all in the videos on all the records dancing, come

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Speaker 1: to death Row and then walks off stage because death

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Speaker 1: Row was the name of his label. Death Row was

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Speaker 1: the name of the recording company that Suge Knight was

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Speaker 1: the executive for at that point. Yeah, because I mean

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Speaker 1: that that statement that he made and then you know,

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Speaker 1: just troops off stage and the crowd is booing. That

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Speaker 1: change the tone of that entire award. Everybody got up

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Speaker 1: at that Ord show. Every time it wasn't thank you,

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Speaker 1: and I'd like to thank God and my mom and

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Speaker 1: whoever suddenly was. No, the East Coast is better, No,

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Speaker 1: the West Coast is better. Oh you don't like so

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Speaker 1: and so, and it just the whole thing just went down.

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Speaker 1: The tune really did. And so let's just to clarify,

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Speaker 1: puff Daddy Sean P Diddy Combs, what what are we

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Speaker 1: calling him? From here on forward? So we get a

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Speaker 1: consistent P Diddy puff Daddy. I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: We're not going to talk too much. I wasn't I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure. But he ran an East Coast recording label

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Speaker 1: called bad Boy, and Suge Knight ran the label that

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Speaker 1: Tupac was on. Death Row. Biggy was signed to Bad

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Speaker 1: Boy and was I think a kind of a founding

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Speaker 1: member Tupac. We'll talk about Tupac and death Row in

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Speaker 1: a minute, but suffice to say, for whatever reason, bad

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Speaker 1: Boy and death Row we're hating on each other. And

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Speaker 1: death Row was in Los Angeles, right, Yeah, they were

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Speaker 1: the West Coast. They were the West Coast side of it.

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Speaker 1: In the year prior to his death, Tupac, We're sorry,

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Speaker 1: We're going back to Tupac. Tupac became increasingly reclusive and

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Speaker 1: kind of seemed to be losing it. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of home videos that you can watch of Tupac

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Speaker 1: from all different times in his life, and most of

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Speaker 1: them are him just being kind of an entertainer and

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Speaker 1: being happy. He was laughing, making other people laugh, smiling,

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Speaker 1: kind of really just enjoying life and really having fun,

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Speaker 1: very outgoing, really just really a born entertainer personality, huge personality.

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Speaker 1: And then in the home videos kind of from you

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Speaker 1: can see him more agitated. Really. There are some videos

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Speaker 1: that he just he's in a studio after having recorded

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Speaker 1: sixty seven tracks in a month. I think it was

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Speaker 1: where he's just kind of lost it, like he just

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Speaker 1: is pacing back and forth and babbling about nonsense and

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Speaker 1: just screaming at people and being really annoyed. There's another

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Speaker 1: video where you can see him spitting at paparazzi later

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Speaker 1: that same month. It was not a good video, and

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Speaker 1: many people feel that this decline was fueled by Suge Knight,

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Speaker 1: who had kind of been cutting Tupac off from his

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Speaker 1: family and friends. How that well, so he had a

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Speaker 1: pretty strict contract with Tupac, and remember he made him

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Speaker 1: live in he specified the apartment he was supposed to

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Speaker 1: live in, right, And you know, we'll talk again more

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Speaker 1: about this when we start talking about Suge Knight a

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Speaker 1: little bit more but essentially what happened is Suge Knight

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Speaker 1: managed to control Tupac's life for a little while through

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Speaker 1: a monetary gift kind of that didn't really ever materialize

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Speaker 1: really just kind of had him in his grip. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he really did. Also, Suge Knight was a huge dude

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Speaker 1: and had huge influence in the community, huge, huge, violent

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Speaker 1: friends too. Yeah, so it would be not a situation

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Speaker 1: that you would necessarily push back too hard on. Was

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Speaker 1: not a dude that you would want to have an

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Speaker 1: argument with because he's like six seven not he's still alive.

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Speaker 1: And I meant in that situation where he's the executive

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Speaker 1: used to be an NFL football player, he's that of

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Speaker 1: that high Yeah, he's yeah, nothing but muscle or was.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about now. But so let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: and just pause there on Tupac. Cliff notes Tupac's life,

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Speaker 1: All right, let's cliff note Biggie's life. Biggie Smalls a

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Speaker 1: k A. The Notorious b I G a k A.

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Speaker 1: Biggie a k A. Christopher Wallace. Not confusing at all,

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Speaker 1: not at all. I'm just gonna call him all of

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Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, So Biggest Small was born to a no,

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Speaker 1: So Biggie was actually also born to black panther parent,

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Speaker 1: but he had a pretty stable home life. His father

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Speaker 1: wasn't in the picture really. He was a Jamaican politician

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Speaker 1: kind of guy too. But his mom was a kindergarten

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Speaker 1: school teacher and she really did anything the Biggie wanted.

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Speaker 1: He did not have a hard life. Uh No. She

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Speaker 1: she was a pretty strong lady, and she kept control

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Speaker 1: of things and she had it all in order. She did.

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Speaker 1: And you know, she also made a fine living. And

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Speaker 1: she only had one son, and they they just had

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Speaker 1: a really strong connection, is from everything I can tell.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure.

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Speaker 1: But although allegedly Biggie started selling drugs when he was twelve,

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Speaker 1: that I think the fact is a bit murky. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's on the Wikipedia page, but I've read and heard

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Speaker 1: interviews with his friends and family, and most of him

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Speaker 1: say that that's not true. Whether that's a them trying

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Speaker 1: to protect his reputation though he was a gangster rapper,

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Speaker 1: so like, I'm not sure that that protects his reputation

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Speaker 1: not much. I'm not sure. I got the feeling that

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Speaker 1: it was more of a boast once he became he

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Speaker 1: got on the rap scene, it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: boast because he made bows in his songs about how

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Speaker 1: he lived terrible and he lived in a shack when

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Speaker 1: that was not the case at all. Well. He yeah,

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Speaker 1: he definitely created a story for the Notorious b I. G. Right,

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Speaker 1: So the childhood that Christopher Wallace had was not the

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Speaker 1: childhood that the Notorious b I. G. Or Biggie Smalls had.

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Speaker 1: Artists do that all the time. It's not unheard of

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Speaker 1: at all. He originally attended a private Roman Catholic school,

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Speaker 1: but asked to be transferred to a public school partway

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Speaker 1: through his time in high school and started to actually

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Speaker 1: kind of his His grade stayed good. He had a

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Speaker 1: good student but he did fall in with maybe a

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Speaker 1: rougher crowd. He ran into trouble with a lot seventeen.

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Speaker 1: I spent some time in jail, but he'd been wrapping

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Speaker 1: on the streets with his friends and started to gain notoriety.

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Speaker 1: He participated in rap battles and things like that and

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Speaker 1: just kind of grew in the industry. He signed with

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Speaker 1: Bad Boy Records and that that was a kind of

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Speaker 1: a founding move. As we talked about It was early

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Speaker 1: in the Bad Boy days, and he was kind of

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Speaker 1: the bigger talent that they had brought in. He rose

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Speaker 1: to prominence over the next few years and became definitely

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Speaker 1: one of the most popular artists on Bad Boy. Bad

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Speaker 1: Boy had a lot of artists that you know now,

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Speaker 1: lots of names that you definitely would recognize. It it was,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a great incubator for a lot

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Speaker 1: of big really was, and they all kind of fueled

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Speaker 1: each other's creativity and really did a great job. But

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Speaker 1: at the time Biggie Smalls was, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: mid to late nineties, while they were alive, Biggie and

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Speaker 1: Tupac were really it. It remains to be seen, or

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Speaker 1: you know, it would have remained to be seen if

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Speaker 1: that would have stayed that way, or if these other

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Speaker 1: talents would have kind of come to the scene and

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Speaker 1: it would have flushed out a little bit more. But

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Speaker 1: they were the two that people really were into. In

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Speaker 1: nine four, Biggie and Tupac met. I think they did

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Speaker 1: a collaboration and they became really good friends really fast.

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Speaker 1: In ninety four, Tupac was with a different recording label

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Speaker 1: than he than he wasn't with death row yet, Okay,

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Speaker 1: just making sure I had that right. Biggie, it turns out,

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Speaker 1: was actually good friends with a lot of unexpected people,

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Speaker 1: Like he was really good friends with Shaquille O'Neal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were really good friends. Actually Shaquille O'Neale was on

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Speaker 1: his way to meet Biggie when Biggie got killed. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: lots of unexpected friendships there. But the friendship, it seems

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Speaker 1: between Biggie and Cheepac seemed kind of unpublicized. You know,

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Speaker 1: people knew that they were friendly, but I think to

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Speaker 1: what degree people didn't really know. Uh. They apparently were

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Speaker 1: frequently at each other's houses, they traveled with each other

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Speaker 1: all the time, they worked to further each other's career,

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Speaker 1: and they were quote constantly together whenever either of them

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Speaker 1: were in each other's town. And this comes from firsthand

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Speaker 1: accounts of close family and friends of both Biggie and Cheepaw.

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Speaker 1: And there's some speculation that the feud that we've kind

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Speaker 1: of touched on earlier was actually just for show that

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Speaker 1: they never stopped being friends, but that having a big

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Speaker 1: old feud between two warring rappers might do something good

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Speaker 1: for your career. And right, also, they might also be better,

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Speaker 1: like say, if you work for somebody like like sug

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Speaker 1: like Sugar and Death Row, you know, and then butt

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Speaker 1: your buddies with somebody on Bad Boy Well, you might

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Speaker 1: not like that, and you might have to kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, for the sake of appearances, pretend to I

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Speaker 1: really hate the guy. That's what Bad Boy Well I

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Speaker 1: was also going to say is think about there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of entertainment industries that do that, and the one

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Speaker 1: that I'll point to professional wrestle. Yeah, which is true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we all know here, but as a twelve

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Speaker 1: year old, I didn't know that Hulk Hogan didn't really

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Speaker 1: hate Andre the Giant and the buddies, but it made

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Speaker 1: for great publicity. Yeah, so there's a little bit of

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Speaker 1: speculation there. There's not a whole lot of bassis to it.

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Speaker 1: It's just a sense that some people have gotten that

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Speaker 1: it would be hard for something to go so wrong

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Speaker 1: that these two really fast friends would have just walked

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Speaker 1: away from their friendship. I can see reasons why, but

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Speaker 1: I know we're going to get into some of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's just talk about right now. Okay. November, while Tupac

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Speaker 1: was recording in a studio, he was shot five times

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Speaker 1: and robbed of thousands of dollars worth of jewelry, and

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Speaker 1: Tupac apparently said that Biggie knew that this was going

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Speaker 1: to happen and that he had even planned it. Biggie

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Speaker 1: of course denied it and was quoted as saying later that,

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Speaker 1: um Tupac quote just he just couldn't really say who

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Speaker 1: had something to do with it at the time, So

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Speaker 1: Tupac had just kind of leaned in and blamed Biggie,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who it is. Well you must know

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Speaker 1: who it is. Is that what I am reading that

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Speaker 1: to say, I, you know, I interpret it as Biggie saying, uh,

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Speaker 1: Tupac knew who did it, but wasn't in a position

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Speaker 1: to bad mouth said did it? Like maybe hey, it

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Speaker 1: was that crappy manager that he had that ripped him

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Speaker 1: off all the time and orchestrated something. Yeah, like a

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Speaker 1: guy named Suge Knight. I should maybe maybe we should

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Speaker 1: like be taking the scientology route on this one, and

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Speaker 1: I should just be like backpedaling possible, because like Suge

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Speaker 1: Knight exists in the real world, and I don't really

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Speaker 1: want to be on his eight list in this particular situation.

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Speaker 1: I think we're saved because this is all based on

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Speaker 1: the research, and this is all based on what people

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Speaker 1: have given interviews to say. So in this this instance,

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried that Joke Knight's gonna know where we are.

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Speaker 1: Plus I gave out Joe's address. Yeah. Plus you can't really,

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Speaker 1: you can't really sue us because this is all out

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Speaker 1: there the public's true. Yeah. Anyway, the rivalry had been

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Speaker 1: kind of brewing between East Coast and West Coast rappers,

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Speaker 1: and no, it hadn't reached its head. It hadn't reached

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Speaker 1: its head at that point. Now. The reason that Tupac

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Speaker 1: thought that Biggie knew something about this was because in

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Speaker 1: Biggie released a song that you most certainly know of

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Speaker 1: his called Big Papa. The B side of this single

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Speaker 1: was a song called who Shot You? And this did

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Speaker 1: not sit super well with Tupac. He was pretty sure

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Speaker 1: that the song was meant to be a taunt. I've

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Speaker 1: heard that it was even recorded in the same studio,

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Speaker 1: not the like actual physical soundbox studio, but the same

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the recording student studio building. I

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Speaker 1: guess that Tupac was shot in. This is not true.

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Speaker 1: The documents that quote proved that Biggie was recording in

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Speaker 1: that studio that night. They were they were faked. I

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Speaker 1: had heard that he actually recorded who Shot before the

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Speaker 1: shooting actually took place. Yeah, well that's actually the next

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Speaker 1: point that I was going to bring up, is that

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Speaker 1: the truth of who Shot You is that it was

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Speaker 1: actually recorded years prior and it was meant to be

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Speaker 1: an intro to a Mary J. Blige album. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if Tupac ever knew that I Gotta be

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Speaker 1: Illness with You. I listened to it. I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: anything that that I could even remotely connect to Tupac

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Speaker 1: in terms of a taunt. Maybe not Tupac specifically, but

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Speaker 1: it is about a dude getting shot, and in this

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Speaker 1: particular genre music, there's a lot of people getting shot.

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Speaker 1: There's a is hubris the right word to to assume

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Speaker 1: that they're talking about you? It is exactly the right way. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's so. I guess we so, I guess we

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Speaker 1: have the two theories right. Either the feud was real

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Speaker 1: or was fake. I think that it was real in

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Speaker 1: that Tupac thought it was real, and I think that

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Speaker 1: it caused Biggie genuine pain that his friend was kind

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Speaker 1: of walking away from the friendship. That's just a total

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Speaker 1: personal perception of my own. I don't have anything to

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Speaker 1: back it up, but I do think that Tupac was

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Speaker 1: being influenced by a lot of people around him and

387
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Speaker 1: probably some drugs around him, and it caused him. It

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Speaker 1: caused him to really alienate people who really cared for

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Speaker 1: him and forge kind of relationships that maybe didn't have

390
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Speaker 1: his best interests at art. Yeah, I do think that

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Speaker 1: maybe Tupac was indulging in drugs a little bit much.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I say that is you see him

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Speaker 1: in a lot of videos and he's either smoking a

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Speaker 1: rollie or he's smoking a joint, And there's there's things

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Speaker 1: where he was at a ward shows that everybody was

396
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: puffing and it was not an uncommon thing for people

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Speaker 1: to lace pot with angel dust at the time. So

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Speaker 1: I really feel like, whether he knew it or not,

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Speaker 1: he was on a lot more than he probably intended

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Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, that's possible. Let's talk about some other

401
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: important stuff. Still doing the kind of housekeeping of this story. Sorry, guys,

402
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: huge backstory, huge backstory. We're gonna get Cliff notes, Babe's

403
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 1: got a huge backstory. This is actually the scary part

404
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: of the story. Huge backstory. Yes, this is I agree

405
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: with that. It's really important to this story to know

406
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: that death Row Records had on the payroll many quote

407
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Speaker 1: off duty cops as bodyguards. They were working for Was

408
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: it Right Way Security? Was that the security company that

409
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: they were using. Reggie Wright junr who works for death Row,

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Speaker 1: He I believe is the one who set up and

411
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Speaker 1: ran the security company because it was it was Right Way.

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Speaker 1: I know that, and I'm almost positive it was a

413
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: play on his name. Yeah, So some of these people

414
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Speaker 1: have become really key players in the death of Tupacan Biggie.

415
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Speaker 1: All of the cops were implicated in the Rampart scandal,

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Speaker 1: which you didn't know what that is. You don't know.

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Speaker 1: This is a thing that happened in the god it

418
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 1: was the late nineties, right, that exposed more than seventy

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Speaker 1: l a p d Cops who were part of the

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Speaker 1: anti gang ta force called CRASH, which is an acronym

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Speaker 1: for Community Resources against Street Hoodlums, which I love as

422
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: basically really crappy dudes. Yeah, they were sorry, go ahead

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Speaker 1: just to say I remember hearing about the time that

424
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: things about like faking evidence and framing people. Yeah, unprovoked shootings,

425
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: unprovoked beating, beatings, planting evidence, framing suspects, stealing then dealing narcotics,

426
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: a bank robbery, perjury, and cover ups. One of the

427
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: key players here is David Mack, who was an officer

428
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: who walked into a bank and stole a hundred and

429
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: seventy thousand dollars while he was still a cop. Yeah,

430
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: that's protecting served. Yeah, he worked for death Row records.

431
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: He was kind of involved in a lot of illegal

432
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: stuff and they were just providing like, you know, protection.

433
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: I mean, they got involved in some really nasty stuff. Yeah.

434
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: There were a couple others that I don't think we

435
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: really need to name. Rampart Lice officers had strong ties

436
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: not only to death Row but also gangs, most notably

437
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: the Piru Bloods, which we're going to talk about in

438
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: just one second. But David Mack, who is currently in jail,

439
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: openly affiliates with the Bloods. So we'll talk a little

440
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: bit about the Pirus, which you may or may not

441
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: know about. If you listen to rap music, you've probably

442
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: heard that word before. I thought I did I really

443
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: I thought I did, but it's amazing how much there

444
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: is too the bloods and the crips when you actually

445
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: start diving into it. Yeah, it's actually really really fascinating,

446
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: and I would recommend that you go out and do

447
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: some research on it if you're interested. Essentially, the blood

448
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: and the crips are overarching, I guess, like umbrella gangs

449
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: and there are gang factions all over America and other

450
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: places that are part of that. Right, that's how you

451
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: would That's how I would the corporation and and the

452
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: the individual games would be like the little franchises of

453
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: a business. Is kind of how I would look I

454
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: look at it as kind of a tribal structure, and

455
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: I'd say, you know, you have a you have a small,

456
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: a small plan, and then that clan is smarter as

457
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: part of a larger tribe, and that larger tribes is

458
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,199
Speaker 1: in turn part of a larger tribal organization. Yeah. I

459
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: think that's I've heard it actually described from some people. Um,

460
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: I think it was. Maybe it was even like Kendrick

461
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: Lamar was talking about how he would he would kind

462
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 1: of describe it as tribes in Africa, because that's kind

463
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: of how it is. But to your point, Steve, the

464
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: reason that I would say that's not true is that

465
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: Bloods are the overarching international corporation. As I tried to

466
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: put in, Hiu is a local family, gang family. They're

467
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: actually referred to as a mob family sometimes, and I

468
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: had never heard that either until I watched some stuff

469
00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: and would that makes so much sense? Yeah, So they

470
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: still exists, this group. They are still have pretty strong

471
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: ties to many rappers that are famous and really really rich.

472
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 1: And as it turns out, it will probably not surprise

473
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: very many people. Suge Knight is a very very well

474
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: known and very very outspoken member of the Piru family.

475
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: Did did either of you ever think to look to

476
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: see what that stands for? Yeah? I don't think. Oh

477
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: it's an acronym. It stands for pimps in red uniforms.

478
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: That's from the reason the stuff that I read, it's

479
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: pimps in red uniforms, p I R you and crips. This.

480
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: I don't know where this came from or how somebody

481
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: came up with this, but crip is Piru spelled backwards

482
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: if you turn to you on its side to make

483
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: it a c According to the like Urban dictionary and

484
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: stuff that I and they're not just urban dictionary, but

485
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: there was a number of things that I was reading through.

486
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: That's where that came from. Is that's why you hear

487
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: piru when you hear crips, and they're they're the same thing.

488
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: It's just a different way of saying it. I mean,

489
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: it's not it's not utterly creative, but it was really interesting.

490
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: That's interesting thought that the crips got their name because

491
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: they like to shoot their their opponents in the knees

492
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: and cripple them. No, really, that's not a real thing. Okay,

493
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: So I really hope already shouldn't get it back to

494
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: you guys next week. You can come back to you

495
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: next week about it. Yeah, that's I think all of

496
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: the housekeeping. I think. Do you guys feel like there's

497
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: any more backstory that needs to be talked about before

498
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: we start talking about the actual story that we're talking

499
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: about that we're half an hour in. Oh no, let's

500
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: muddy this some more. Let's just let's just add some

501
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: more facts. Yeah, what else you want to talk about?

502
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: There's so much, so complicated, and it's just it's confusing

503
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: after a while, so many names involved Yeah, there's a

504
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: lot of names involved, there's a lot of players involved,

505
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: and keeping it straight, there's not Honestly, there's not one

506
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: good source. I can't say, go check out this thing.

507
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: This is, you know, of course, a bunch of research

508
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: from a bunch of different sources. I think there are

509
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: a couple of documentaries that do a pretty good job

510
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: lotch ringing all of the information together, but you have

511
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: to watch all of them because they all have different

512
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: information that different all have a different agenda. Yeah, that

513
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: was my hard part. I watched two or three documentaries

514
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: on this because, as we talked about, there's just so

515
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: much going on. And I was telling Joe and I

516
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: were talking about this earlier before we started recording, that

517
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: was the only way I could keep these names straight

518
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: is I could actually get a face to the name

519
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: through an interview or other people. And still still I would.

520
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the second or third

521
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: one going wait who Yeah. I actually ran into that

522
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: when I was, you know, kind of writing the script

523
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: for this and what a couple of documentaries and I

524
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I really want to talk about that

525
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: one guy they interviewed, uh uh oh, no, what's the

526
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: guy who wasn't how was he related? And why did

527
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: I care about him? I just had the face in

528
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: front of me, you know. So let's just try to

529
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: stumble our way through this story. Okay, So where are

530
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: we started again. We're gonna start September seven, so we're

531
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,719
Speaker 1: starting with what We're going back to Chupac. Okay, We're

532
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: gonna start at the beginning of the events. So September

533
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: seven might be a date that someone recognized for reasons

534
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: not because of the thing we're about to talk about.

535
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: Because it was a night in boxing history, actually, which

536
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: is fairly controversial. People were so angry for paying for

537
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: HBO pay per view. It was the championship UH in

538
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: America between Bruce Selden and Mike Tyson. This fight was

539
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: pretty controversial for a number reason ends, but mostly because

540
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: it seemed really fixed because Tyson knocked Selban out in

541
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: just one minute and forty nine seconds for the heavyweight

542
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: the heavyweight title. I haven't I didn't ever watch it.

543
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: I don't really care to watch boxing, but I read

544
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I read an account that said that Tyson hit him

545
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: in the head, but it looked like he kind of

546
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: just grazed him. At like a minute thirty and he

547
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: goes down and then he gets up and uh, you know,

548
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: says no, no, I can go. And then Tyson hits

549
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: him one more time and the dude gets back up

550
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: but he can't stay standing, and so the ref is

551
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I know, we're done here, which to

552
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: me and so many people paid what like a hundred

553
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars or something to watch this. H yeah,

554
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: I was supposed to go a really long time. It

555
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: lasted less than two minutes, to be honest. I played

556
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson's punch out on the Nintendo and Mike had

557
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,239
Speaker 1: hit pretty hard. Yeah, I don't. I actually think if

558
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: they if they had actually fixed the fight, then they

559
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: would have stretched it out for a while. Yeah. Yeah,

560
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: this fight was orchestrated. This is a fun little fact here.

561
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: This fight was orchestrated by a man named James Rosemond,

562
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: who was also known as Jimmy Henchman. Really yes, I

563
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: mean it's not his real name, but times people get

564
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: dumb names, right. Sug Night's real name isn't Sug, Yeah,

565
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: but he goes by Sug, which I suppose was at

566
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: one point sugar. I it's spelled s u g E

567
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: in case anybody was wondering, that's how you say that?

568
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: Now everybody I can. I can hear them all going,

569
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: oh that dude. Yeah, for once, we're not mispronouncing it. Yeah,

570
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: like I did my research. Shuge night. Yeah. Okay, So

571
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: tupacin Shug, we've just been saying suge and now thinking

572
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: I want to say it that way. No, but Tupac

573
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: and Sug we're at the fight and Kevin Hackey, who's

574
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: one of the off duty l a p D officers

575
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 1: who is actually now an ex con and bounty hunter,

576
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: was asked to tell Tupac that a member of the

577
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: rival gang, the Crips, was at the casino. This is

578
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: before the fight. This was This was before the fight

579
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: actually took place. The boxing match hadn't started. They were

580
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: just in the casino having a good time. Yes. Hackey

581
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: was also asked to implicate the man the Crip in

582
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: a robbery that had happened earlier that year from the

583
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: Piru family. Turns out, some Crips walked into a foot

584
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: locker and robbed a bunch of members of the Piru

585
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: So that's cool. This guy was named Orlando Anderson, but

586
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: was known as Baby Lane. I wish that I had

587
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: cool names like this Tupac. We really need to give

588
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: ourselves some awesome monikers. Mine would be d Unit Shorty

589
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: a k A. D Unit. It's true, that's mine. I've

590
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: got mine. Yeah, you can meet Jay Dogg and Steve

591
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: can be Baldy McGee. That's the whitest name I ever heard.

592
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 1: I know what my name is gonna be. It's gonna

593
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: be notorious Joe. That's good. Yeah, it's actually really good. Yeah, notorious. Okay, okay, notorious.

594
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: This guy Orlando was in or Anderson, Lando Anderson. I'm

595
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: gonna call mem Anderson sorry by his last name. He's

596
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: the only one. Tupac sees him and just attacks him

597
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: because Hackey had told him, because Hackey told him he

598
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: was you know, part of it. Tupac was probably drunk

599
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: and high and angry, and even if if he wasn't,

600
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: he was prone to fly off the handle at that

601
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: point pretty quickly. Yeah, at that point definitely. So just

602
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: to be straight, here was Tupac ever officially a blood

603
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: and he was he was there for the music what

604
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: I can tell, But by affiliation, I think that he

605
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: had to stand by the quote unquote family. You know,

606
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: I'm not a member of the mob, but I've got

607
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: to respect the mob kind of mentality. Obviously, you're gonna

608
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: be sad since your boss, Shug is a crip. You

609
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 1: kind of got on or excuse me of blood straight. Yeah,

610
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: Shug joined in in the beating. It's pretty much just

611
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: a beating. There's surveillance tapes of it. I watched it. Shug,

612
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: who was on probation at the time, kicks Anderson a

613
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: couple of times in the head. In the head. This

614
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: was obviously a violation of parole and he was eventually

615
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: sent to jail for his parole violation. After the fight

616
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: that they had the beating, they watched the fight the

617
00:36:54,640 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: other beating, and then Tupac got into Sugars car with him.

618
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: They were going to go to uh death Row owned

619
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: club called Clubs six six two six six two is

620
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: not wasn't actually owned by death Row. I think death

621
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Row made a lot of claims or Sugar made a

622
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: lot of claims that they were in ownership of it,

623
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: but I don't think from the stuff that I've heard

624
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: that they actually owned it. They just went there a

625
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: lot and spread that room. That's fair I guess what

626
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: I've always seen and just assumed was true is not.

627
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: It did never say they owned it. It It just that

628
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: it was a death row club, and that's yeah, it

629
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: was a club they went to, but they made allusions

630
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: to ownership. That's fair because well they thought they owned

631
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: the place. So Shug was driving his car and Tupac

632
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: was in the passenger seat. Well, yeah, that the weird

633
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: thing is it was only those two in the car.

634
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: Normally have godards, You've got your bodyguards with you and

635
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: I it was odd. Yeah, Actually his bodyguard Frank Alexander

636
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: TWOPOCX bodyguard, Sorry it was it was meant to be

637
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: in the car with them, but Tupac at the last moment,

638
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: right before leaving, actually asked Frank if he would get

639
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: in the car with Tupac's then fiance. Oh that's right,

640
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: said under the guys of saying in case we need

641
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: more cars to leave the club. But that's a weird

642
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: little tidbit about this story, right that at the very

643
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: one of two PACs very last acts in life was

644
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: to tell his bodyguard, na, go hang out with my

645
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: fiance instead, right, Yeah, So that that I think is

646
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: an action that does put a lot of question marks

647
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: in people's heads. Well, I didn't, didn't should have a

648
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: bodyguard or two. I don't he did, but I don't

649
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: know that. I was not on the impression that they

650
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: necessarily rode with him. There there was a security team,

651
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: there was there was security, Yeah, but they mostly it

652
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: was kind of like a caravan entourage sort of situation.

653
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: They all had big suburbans that they would drive. It's

654
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: kind of like the president, you know. And it was

655
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: my impression that sug frequently did not have them in

656
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: the car with him, that they would drive in other

657
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: cars in a kind of caravan situation makes sense. Sugar

658
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: was pulled over because the dummy didn't have license plates

659
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: on his car because it's brand new. It was, yeah,

660
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: I was brand new. I don't think so his license

661
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: plates were Actually this was the bit that's dumb. They

662
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: were in his trunk. Oh so it wasn't that new

663
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: know that he had them. Why did he not put

664
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: them on? I don't know? Again, Yeah, no, I mean

665
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 1: I think that this is where stuff that sends red

666
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: flags that for people starts to happen. Right, Why did

667
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: Tupac tell his bodyguard, hey, right, in a different car,

668
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: Why did Sugar not have license plates on his car?

669
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: It takes like two seconds and three bolts, right, I mean,

670
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: it's not like a huge ordeal to put your license

671
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: plates on, particularly if you are probably gonna get pulled

672
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: over since you don't have license plates on. So they

673
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: got pulled over, but they were released free to go.

674
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what the term they proved they had

675
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: the plates. Sorry, they have a chance. Probably handed a

676
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: hundred dollar bill to somebody and went on their autograph

677
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: something something like that. They drove just a couple yards

678
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: down the road and stopped at a red light. Now

679
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: it's important to point out to everybody this is all

680
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: in Vegas, Vegas. But this is not on the Vegas Strip,

681
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: because remember the Tyson fight has gotten out, so the

682
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: strip is a parking lot. Yeah, so they're not on

683
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: the strip. They're off the strip at this point. Yeah. Well, okay,

684
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: the car pulled up to the stoplight, and a car

685
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: with two women pulled up on the left side of

686
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: the car, and Tupac was standing in the sun roof.

687
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: You know, you stand up in the sunroof like you're

688
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: going to prom or whatever. Um, and he apparently had

689
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: a conversation with the women and invited them to the club,

690
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: and then I guess sat back down, is my understanding.

691
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of recreations of what happened that night.

692
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: Some of them include the fact that he was standing

693
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: up and talking to women. Others don't, but he did

694
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: sit back down, and a car, a white Cadillac, an

695
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: older model white Cadillac, pulled to the right side of

696
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: Shook's car. The windows were rolled down, and nobody's quite

697
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 1: sure how many people were in the car, but it's

698
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: pretty clear that somebody I think it was in the

699
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: back driver's side side right, so the left side of

700
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: the car. So it's important to note, because you're saying

701
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: somebody in the rear of the Cadillac, is that when

702
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: they were at the stop light, shooks car was not

703
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: the first car in line. What are their bodyguards cars

704
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: was in front, then Shug's car and then another bodyguard.

705
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: So they're there too. There one car length away from

706
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: the intersection, which is why this car is able to

707
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: go where it goes. Yeah, So it goes right next

708
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: to them, and driver's side American driver's side, right left

709
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 1: side rolls down and just opens fire through the passenger

710
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 1: side passenger side of Sug's car, Chupac. It's pretty clear

711
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: was the main target of this attack. He was hit

712
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: in the chest, pelvis, and right hand and right thigh.

713
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 1: Shug claims that he had taken a bullet to the head,

714
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: big fat liar. He said that he took a bullet

715
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 1: to the head and that it was embedded in his skull,

716
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: and the doctors had told him that it was too

717
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: dangerous to operate to take it out, so he just

718
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: had been in there. In interviews, there's but it was

719
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: really just a scratch. Well, a bullet grazed the side

720
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: of his head glass flying glass. Yeah, So what what

721
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: makes me curious about this is that one is not

722
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: neither one of the two cars fill of bodyguards one

723
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: after the white cattle as they did, actually one of

724
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: them did, did they? I haven't seen. I hadn't seen.

725
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 1: Everybody I've read is focused on what happened with Sugar's car, right,

726
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's my understanding that one of the bodyguard

727
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: cars pursued the white car, but that nobody ever really

728
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: heard from the occupants. I think they just lost them.

729
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: That was my sense. Probably didn't react right away either,

730
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: because what the hell is going on? Right? Yeah, your

731
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: boss just got shot, so sug reacts poorly. That's a

732
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: good way to put it. Suspiciously panic in just blind panic.

733
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: He just started driving. He drove towards the strip, he said,

734
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: because he didn't know if there were more attackers, and

735
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: he thought maybe it'd be safer on the strip. Anyways,

736
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: he's not doing a great job driving. He run into

737
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,720
Speaker 1: a bunch of signs and lamp posts and finally breaks

738
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: down a couple of blocks away. He drives like Alicia's

739
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: Silverstone includes exactly. It's worse than that, actually, somehow worse

740
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: than that. Chupac was rushed to the hospital put on

741
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: life support. One of the bullets had entered his long

742
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: Chupac was heavily sedated, and they actually had to eventually

743
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: put him in a coma because he kept trying to

744
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: get out of bed. He's a badass, for real, the

745
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: way you have to put him in a coma, and

746
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: he wouldn't stay in bed, so they just put him

747
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 1: in a coma, and then six days later he died

748
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: in the hospital after I guess they did CPR for

749
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: a really long time, and his mom was just like,

750
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: not just just call it. And then he was cremated,

751
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: like suspiciously quickly after that the next day. There must

752
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: have been an autopsy, right, No, because he was in

753
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: the hospital. They knew what, right, they knew what was

754
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: going on with his body. They were trying to save

755
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: when he was in the hospital for six days, so

756
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: they knew what was going on with him. They didn't like,

757
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: they need to do an autopsy, so they just cremated.

758
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: I'm surprised by that because that that in cases of

759
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: murder than autopsy was mandatory in this case. I don't

760
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: think that's true because they knew it. Well. I don't

761
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: think an autopsy would really feel anything. Well, No, I mean,

762
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: you know it is. It is. Sometimes it seems like

763
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be mandatory because obviously something. Oh no, I'm

764
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: thinking of his death certificate. Never mind, I'm sorry, there's

765
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: stuff about his death certificate. But I yeah, I I

766
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: don't know why there wasn't an autopsy. Yeah, because even right,

767
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: it's your understanding too, that there wasn't an autopsy. I

768
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: didn't just miss that, know what I was thinking of.

769
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: I was about to say, oh, wait, there was it,

770
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: but no, what I was looking at was his death, Curt,

771
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: I don't think there was, and I'm freely going to

772
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: admit that I could have just missed it, but I

773
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: will say he was cremated really quick. I think I

774
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: think it was even within twelve hours. Four hours. I

775
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: definitely twenty four, but I think it was within twelve even.

776
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: And I don't I really don't think that there's anybody

777
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: who's totally satisfied with the investigation into tupox death. I

778
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: don't think anybody in this world. The official line is

779
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 1: that it was members of the Compton Crips trying to

780
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: avenge the beating of Anderson that had happened just prior

781
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: to the boxing match in the casino. The second part

782
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: of this official line is that the gun used was

783
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: paid for by Biggie Smalls, actually the one of the

784
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 1: lead investigators, and then some investigative reporters that did some

785
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: heavy digging. Faith Evans was married to Biggie and she

786
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: recalls Biggie calling her the night that Chupac was shot

787
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: and he was crying. Yeah. She said that he didn't

788
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: have hate in his heart for anybody, And then a

789
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: few nights later Biggie saw Snoop Doggie Dog I'm sorry, uh,

790
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: And Snoop recalls Biggie telling him that he never hated Chupac,

791
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 1: and by most accounts, Biggie was like very heartbroken about

792
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: the death of Chupac about six months go by w

793
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: correct Now Snoop was with which label? Again, Snoop was

794
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: on death Row? Okay, there was a mass exodus that happened,

795
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: and he was one of the people who kind of

796
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: bail started that what how did you how did you

797
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: how did you like have a mass excess from death

798
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: Row and not get murdered by my sugar? Really though,

799
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: that is a good question. Well, and there's some stuff

800
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: and I think that there's some leadership issues that come

801
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: up here very shortly. Well, I know we're gonna get

802
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 1: into some of that later, Am I wrong? I mean

803
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: probably we will if you want. Well, basically, you know,

804
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: Suge Knight because of his prol violation for beating the

805
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: crap out of Anderson and goes to jail. Did so

806
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: it's suddenly easy to get away from the boss when

807
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: the boss is locked up. Yeah, I can't, except people

808
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: like that have connections. They can still like you know,

809
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 1: or or are you rubbed out from behind bars? Do

810
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: you want to talk about connections. Suge Knight really creased

811
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: me out with the connections to that he has. Have

812
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: you ever seen the interviews of that guy. Well, he's

813
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: in jail, he's spoken, a giant, fat cuban cigar, has

814
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: a walking cane, and it's not not maximum security, and

815
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: it's not you know, the cheapy Charlie. We give this

816
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: out just because we have to. It's like a nice

817
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: looking solid wooden things that could break. Yeah, that guy

818
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: had connections, because I mean, it was amazing to me

819
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: to watch an interview with him and he's just puffing

820
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: on a cigar like he's the Godfather. Especially. One of

821
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: the things that I'd really like to see changed about

822
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: our prison system because it's like the worst criminals, the

823
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: ones who deserve to be punished the most harshly, always

824
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: have the best time in prison. Yes, somehow that's true. Yeah,

825
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: six months go by, I think that's where we were. Yes,

826
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: six months go by, Biggie had taken a bit of

827
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: a step back from the scene. There's this great quote

828
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: from him where he just says, my mom, my son,

829
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: my daughter, my family, my friends, They're what mattered to me.

830
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: Now it seems as though the death of tupac In

831
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: a couple other things that happened to him during that

832
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: time really affected him. So that's he probably realized how

833
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: dangerous things were becoming. Well, I think that there was that,

834
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: and also there was just so much violence around him,

835
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 1: and he he did go to jail a couple of times,

836
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: and he had some charges against him, and some bad

837
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: stuff happened. He was actually in a car accident. His

838
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: cousin was driving a car, and it was so bad

839
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: that he was confined to a wheelchair for a number

840
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: of months. Right, Yeah, he shattered one of his legs.

841
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: So I think that all of that kind of contributed

842
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: to Biggie thinking maybe this was not a great place.

843
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: And he had, you know, he did, he had He

844
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: was married and he had two kids, and by all accounts,

845
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: he was pretty happy. Although there's some rumors about him

846
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: having an affair with Little Kim, but that's not here. There.

847
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 1: In February, you know, that's kind of funny. Yeah, Yeah,

848
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: February seven, Biggie went to l A to promote his

849
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: new album, which included the song Hypnotized, which is the

850
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: other song you definitely know by him. I was going

851
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: to try and imitate that like the intro song You're

852
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: going to get Please come on, we need another another

853
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: song to mix for we need another rap song. So

854
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: when did he cut wood Shook? Not for nothing? But

855
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: the album he was promoting was called Life After Death.

856
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 1: What's Kyle's prop? On March eight, Biggie was a presenter

857
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: at the Soul Train Music Awards. He left the event

858
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: in a suburban driven by I think a bodyguard, and

859
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: I think his cousin Lilci was in the backseat. I

860
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: think that's my understanding. Yeah, Joe was just laughing at

861
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: the Biggie and then little everybody got it. They attended

862
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: an after party and then left. About twelve d a m.

863
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: The suv stopped at her at light and a dark

864
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: sedan pulled next to the car. The driver rolled down

865
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: his window and fired open fired uh full. Four bullets

866
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: hit Biggie and the shooter was seen and a composite

867
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: sketch was made and I forget the car was a

868
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: It was a black sedan. It was a black or

869
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: very dark and PAULA, yeah, yeah, yeah. Biggie was of

870
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: course rushed to the hospital and of four bullets only

871
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: one did Lasting day Okay, well lasting damage. I mean

872
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: it killed him. It was fatal, but well, he would

873
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: have easily survived the other one, so had this one not. Yeah, basically,

874
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: there was one flash wound in his groin groin area,

875
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: which probably wouldn't have been super fun to heal, but

876
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: they would have all healed. You know. It was like

877
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: one in his arm and one in his thigh, but

878
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: the other one went through his pal I was went

879
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: in his hip pretty much. Yeah. And there's a picture

880
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: I have you guys have in the script in front

881
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: of you of the man who did it. Who, honestly,

882
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 1: do you know who he looks like? To me? No

883
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: is Andre from Outcast right does, especially in the like

884
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: hey video or a little bit of Mr Belvet here,

885
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of little Yeah, but he looks

886
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 1: so much like I'll show you get the picture later

887
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: because it looks exactly like that to me. He's wearing

888
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: a bow tie. I don't think so. I think we

889
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: would know about that by now. There are, of course,

890
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: a lot of theories. There are a lot um I've

891
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: picked a couple of my favorites, and you know, as

892
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: with these stories, many of these just kind of fall

893
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: under the same umbrella, and the details are just different

894
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: and kind of boring. So let's get into them. Let's

895
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 1: start with gang violence. There's a lot of one. There

896
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: are a couple of them. Why bullet pointed these, and

897
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: I think four of them are gang violence of different

898
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: varieties the subtext because I wouldn't know what was going on.

899
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: So just gang violence, the mundane kind that the Crips

900
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: did in fact retaliate by shooting at Tupac, and then

901
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: Biggie was shot for also gang related reasons. Because Biggie

902
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: was Biggie was again affiliated with which gang, if any,

903
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 1: the Crips. The Crips mostly just didn't that bad Boy

904
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 1: was affiliated with the Crips, not because Biggie himself was affiliated.

905
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,760
Speaker 1: Have you heard of the practice of making your blood,

906
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: which is your initiation kill. Yeah, that'd be a that's

907
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: pretty big initiation kill. Though. Hey, if you want to

908
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: make a statement and you want to come in gangbusters,

909
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: you find the biggest guy you can and you kill you.

910
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's what's happening, but I'm just looking

911
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 1: at like, if this is just random gang violence and hey,

912
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 1: you got to kill somebody. Hey, look there's Biggie Smalls

913
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: get him. I'm gonna be honest, honest with you. If

914
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: this were initiation, we like somebody everybody be bragging about that.

915
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: The dude who did it would be telling everybody. But

916
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: there's also the fact that a lot of the guys

917
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: that are involved in this case, we're dead within two years. True,

918
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: So it's quite possible that somebody did and a couple

919
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: of dudes knew who it was, but they really had

920
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: to shut their mouths and then they subsequently die. Then

921
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: we don't know now. And my understanding of this too

922
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: is that this is a really professionally done hit. It

923
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: wasn't some random, like little gangbanger thing. Yes, because I

924
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 1: mean they had other cars that basically like they had

925
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: was the Toyota land Cruiser that did a U turn

926
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: and and it's basically separated the cars from the from

927
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: the bodyguards car and another one that blocked him in

928
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: the front. Were you gonna talk about that, by the way,

929
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm not well. And when we're just talking about these theories,

930
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: are we talking about Tupac specifically, or we talking about

931
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: Biggie specifically, or are we just talking in general for

932
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 1: the whole however, long we've been talking so far, well

933
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: in this one, in the like it's just general gang violence.

934
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: We're talking about both, okay, because I gotta agree with Joe,

935
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: which is the whole One of the things I read

936
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: is the killing of Tupac follows one a lot of

937
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: government agencies like the CIA and places that will go

938
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: overseas and to do a hit on somebody that they

939
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: need to take out. There was a lot of steps

940
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: that were followed, the separating of the vehicles and kind

941
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: of like you were talking about, the blocking into the vehicle.

942
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: On the other side, there was a lot of stuff

943
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: which again I I don't think it was just random

944
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: gang violence. I don't know what it was, but it's pinky.

945
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: That's actually one of the reasons I want to talk

946
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 1: about later. But white people think that Suge Knight did

947
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: it remind me while we're talking about Sue Knight that

948
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: we want to talk about that because it's a good

949
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: and but it's also not unfair to say that. One

950
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: thing that I haven't mentioned, and I know you wanted

951
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about, is that the FBI

952
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: was following Hupac and Biggie both and has pictures of

953
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: Biggie the night that he was shot, like getting into

954
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: his car, and they were they were following him. So

955
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: it's not the most outlandish thing in the world to

956
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 1: say that maybe it was a government hit job. It's weird, well,

957
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: and it's it's weird because if they have photos of

958
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: him going to the event, leaving the event, going to

959
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: the next event, leaving the next event, then where the

960
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: hell were they when the shootings happen? His mom asks

961
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 1: that same question, does but there's people who asked that

962
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: for Tupac as well, because he was under surveillance and

963
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 1: and so that's that's the really really odd thing. There's

964
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: the I know that I think we're gonna talk about

965
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: this later, but might as well just do it now

966
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: because we're talking about yeah, is there's there's conspiracy theories,

967
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna call it a conspiracy theory. There are

968
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: a couple this, I know. The one you want to

969
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: talk about now is that this was that both of

970
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 1: these were government hits. Y. Here's the background on this

971
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: is that, Okay, Tupac comes from a family that's you know,

972
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: it's got ties with the Black Panthers. He's a very

973
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: persuasive figure, He's a very very big figure for the

974
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: young black community. So people say that certain elements in

975
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: the government were worried that he was going to become

976
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,479
Speaker 1: the next Martin Luther King, the next Malcolm X maybe

977
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: I don't know who. They thought he was gonna combat

978
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: they had. There was enormous fear, so they decided to

979
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: take him out rather than have this urban uprising. I've

980
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: heard that for Tupac. What I don't understand is how

981
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: that relates to Biggie. Well, so this is, uh, I

982
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: don't see what Biggie was doing. Well, so this is

983
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: echoed throughout a lot of a lot of the theories.

984
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: You'll hear this that the Biggie death is a coincidental

985
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: cover up of whatever happened to Tupac, right, that it

986
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: was a lean into the feud, and that it was

987
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: convenient if you would just off Biggie then it would

988
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 1: look like retaliation for Biggie killing even though Tupac even

989
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: that was more or less the same person who kill

990
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 1: them both. Right, So that that that you can hear

991
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: that echo throughout many different, many different theories that we're

992
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 1: going to talk about, is that the reason that Biggie

993
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: died is because Tupac died and that it was easier

994
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: to explain and the aftermath that oh, Biggie had to

995
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: pack offt and then the Piru family had Biggie off

996
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: and then yeah, that that doesn't hold. I agree. I

997
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: absolutely agree with that. I agree it's nonsensical to commit

998
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: another murder six months later to cover up another. I

999
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: mostly agree. There's one theory that I think it fits

1000
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: nicely into, but the rest of them I totally agree

1001
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: with as far as as government assassination theory now because

1002
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't think there was any threat there was going

1003
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: to become the next Malfolm whatever. And also again, you're

1004
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 1: talking about a bunch of an industry where people kill

1005
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: each other all the time, So why go to the

1006
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: trouble and the risk of murdering somebody when he's probably

1007
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 1: gonna get murdered anyway. People, because people point to our

1008
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: our past vice president who is worse pronouncing words than

1009
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: we are, Dan Quayle, who was giving speeches about the

1010
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: read of urban youth and the rap industry, and people

1011
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: point to that as an executive office mandate to quell this.

1012
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: That's but that. But you gotta remember too that Dan

1013
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: Quill left office three January. But if it's an executive

1014
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: level thing, I mean no, I think the whole thing

1015
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: is it's hair brain. Yeah, that that's what it is.

1016
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: But that's where I know it stems from, at least

1017
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: from the research I've seen. Yeah, I would agree with that.

1018
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: There's also some conspiracy theories that the Illuminati killed them.

1019
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: You're laughing, but it's true and in fairness right. Tupac's

1020
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: last album was called The don Killum, Killer Kill Him.

1021
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: I can't actually say it, Kati. Yeah, the seven Day Theory.

1022
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: I can't believe I got that. Yeah, it's a play

1023
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: on Illuminati. Yeah, I think I like that. That's kind

1024
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: of cool. Yeah. That was his first or his last.

1025
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: That was the title of his album with a month

1026
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: after he died. Yeah, it was released prematurely, was released

1027
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: earlier than it was meant to be released. We're going

1028
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,120
Speaker 1: to talk all about this, Okay, second, but I'm sorry.

1029
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to no, no, no, not at all.

1030
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,479
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we do have to mention

1031
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: that the Illuminati might have done it, even though that's dumb.

1032
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 1: They didn't. They didn't do it, they didn't. Why not?

1033
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: I like it just kidding. So the next gang violence

1034
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: theory is we've talked about a little bit already, right,

1035
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: is that Biggie, for whatever reason, had Tupac killed death

1036
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: row in turn, had Biggie killed in retaliation. I think

1037
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: that's done for a number of reasons. Not one of

1038
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: them notwithstanding is that, like, I really do believe that

1039
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: Biggie had nothing but love for Tupac. You know where

1040
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: they came from, right, Yeah, the l A time. Yeah,

1041
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: the l A times, like made stuff up, so much

1042
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 1: of a lot of cover up. There's a lot of

1043
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: make up, made stuff up. And that's where it from

1044
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: his I think somebody they put out an article from

1045
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: a source they couldn't disclose that he offered a million dollars.

1046
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: And by the way, according to the story, he was

1047
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: also in Las Vegas at the time, which he absolutely was. Yeah,

1048
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: probably not. Um next theory is gang violence, but this

1049
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: time with p DDE Tough Daddy, Shawn Colms, you know

1050
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: however you want to call him. He apparently he was

1051
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: also he owned bad Boy Records, Right, it still does.

1052
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: I think I think it's still a thing. I'm not

1053
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: totally sure, I'll be honest with you. He had Tupac

1054
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:46,240
Speaker 1: off because reasons and biggieming by reasons. You mean, we

1055
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 1: don't know. And then death Row had Biggie killed in retaliation,

1056
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: this time with a lot of the l a p

1057
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: D corruption that it was. It was essentially that Suge

1058
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: Knight paid the cop to do it. Yeah, bigg shooting,

1059
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 1: but an undercover polace or off the book shooting. That

1060
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 1: was it really interesting to see. Um, I can't remember

1061
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: which l A cop it was, but as far as

1062
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: as far as as big E goes Biggie goes, I

1063
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: mean there was one of the one of the cops

1064
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,120
Speaker 1: that was involved with this soul thing. Actually wasn't it?

1065
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: Was it Hacky? I think it might have been Hacky,

1066
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. No, Hackey was the one. Was

1067
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: one of the ones that said he knew who had

1068
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 1: done it, but it was I think it was David Mac.

1069
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, yeah right, yeah, yeah, And so he

1070
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: was an l A p D officer but he worked

1071
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: for he was the one who did the bank robbery. Yeah,

1072
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: and his his his handle was d Mac and he

1073
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: owned a black and Palaea. Interestingly enough, the l A

1074
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: p D never bothered to even take a close look

1075
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: at that car. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's one of

1076
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: many things that they didn't bother there to do. That's true.

1077
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: They didn't bother to interview so many l A p

1078
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: D and the Las Vegas p D. They both kind

1079
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: of screwed the pooch on these cases. They didn't bother

1080
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: to investigate a lot of people, and I think it's

1081
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: just because they had biases against those people. I'm not

1082
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 1: saying it's a racial thing. I'm saying that it's you're

1083
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: in this rap industry and we know that you're dealing

1084
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: drugs and you're just not going to tell the truth,

1085
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: so we're not even gonna waste our time kind of bias.

1086
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: Although many of the cops were corrupt, so I'm just

1087
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: going to cover sprevolved and involved. Next theory is that

1088
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: they take their deaths, both of them, so they both

1089
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: take their desks, that they're off living on an island

1090
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: somewhere together. Yeah, I don't know, they were friends. You

1091
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: could also theorize that I think the case for Tupac's

1092
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: faking his death is much stronger than Biggie faking his death.

1093
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: So you can combine theories and say that Tupac faked

1094
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 1: his death and then in retaliation, people had Biggie killed

1095
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: because they thought that he had Tupac killed. That doesn't

1096
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: sit right with me, but it's always possible. Tupac. Well,

1097
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: let's first talk about Biggie. Life after Death was his

1098
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: last record that was released, and then in bad Boy

1099
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 1: released another one of his albums called Born Again, which

1100
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: in fairness people point to. But I'm pretty sure that

1101
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: bad Boy just named it that it didn't actually come

1102
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: from Biggie. But okay, yeah, the Tupac album was already

1103
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 1: named before he died, Yeah, the don kill him. Yeah,

1104
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: but the Biggie album that Born Again wasn't released. Yeah,

1105
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: so that's way after his death. I don't think they

1106
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: had that record. No, it was all just unreleased stuff. Yeah,

1107
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 1: so that that's a marketing bit. I agree Tupac. You know,

1108
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: he released the album The Dawn Lamati. The seven day

1109
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: depends on how you want to pronounce. Yeah, I seven

1110
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 1: just as right, the seven day principle. No, it's this.

1111
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: I had it before the seven Days something something, Now

1112
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: I've lost it was originally the three Day Something and

1113
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 1: then they did the Seven Day Something. He was Jesus

1114
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: on the cover. He was Jesus on the cover. There

1115
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 1: lyrically a lot of references to life after death, resurrection,

1116
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: also faking one's own death. You know, Tupac was super

1117
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: obsessed with Machiavelli at the time. He really was. No,

1118
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: he well he always was, he had always yeah, he

1119
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: So he released this album actually under his stage name

1120
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: quote unquote of maki Velli. It was spelled differently than

1121
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: the Italian artist, but that he had always kind of

1122
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: planned all of his stuff that he had planned to

1123
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: do for a death row he planned to do under

1124
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: that name as a stage name. Was not an artist, philosopher,

1125
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: political philosophy. Sorry, yeah, yeah, I said, Well he wasn't

1126
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: away but you know, one of the things that Machiavelli

1127
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: was so popular for, I was talking about deceit and

1128
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: deception and things like that, particularly within the political system. Sure,

1129
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,439
Speaker 1: but people kind of point to that and say, well,

1130
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: Tupac was talking about deceit. He was really obsessed with

1131
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: deceiving people. So, and there have been some sightings of

1132
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: Machiavelli or Tupac, Well he was, you know, he was

1133
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: called Machiavelli an artist. So maki Velli was the original

1134
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 1: cynic he was you never read the book, you should

1135
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: as good ridden. Yeah, I've seen a number of things

1136
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 1: that Tupac is still alive. Oh yeah, I don't ascribe

1137
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 1: to it, agreed, but there are but that that hologram

1138
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: was super convincing though, right, I totally know about the hologram.

1139
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: I just can't believe you win there. That was the

1140
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 1: look of are you kidding? Uh No. What I was

1141
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: gonna say is is there's things that people have pointed out.

1142
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: I looked at Tupac's death certificate. I couldn't read it

1143
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: because the copy that I came across on the internet

1144
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: was so bad. But people say that two Bucks alive

1145
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: and then he faked his death, and that the body

1146
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: that was cremated wasn't actually his because the body that

1147
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: was listed on the death certificate had a sixty pound

1148
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: weight difference from him. Because Tupac, what was he I

1149
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 1: can't remember how much he was. I think he was

1150
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: like a hundred sixty or a hundred seventy pounds or

1151
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: something like that. He was only muscular dude, but he

1152
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: was kind of a tall guy, and there was there

1153
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 1: was a weight difference. Evidently, there's some just crepencies on

1154
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 1: the tattoos because he had a budget. Big notable one

1155
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: was thug life across his abdomen. But there's that, and

1156
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:15,639
Speaker 1: there's the fact that the the guy that cremated the body,

1157
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 1: nobody can find him. He wasn't hardly a regised person.

1158
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 1: And it's amazing amount of money that he was paid.

1159
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: I think he's paid like three or five grand to

1160
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: do it, or no, it was more than that, but

1161
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: I can't remember how much it was. But he's paid

1162
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: some obscene amount of money to do the cremation super fast.

1163
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: So I know that's what fosters people to say that

1164
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: Tupac is still alive. There's also an awesome report that

1165
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 1: I read that said that in Cuba, a week after

1166
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:49,560
Speaker 1: Tupac's death, like one thousand people called the cops to

1167
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: say that they saw Tupac in Cuba, which is one

1168
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: of the stupidest things I think I've ever heard in

1169
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 1: my entire life. According to the lore, and I'm going

1170
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: to call it the lore, his grandmother evidently his grandmother

1171
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: killed a cop in seventies seven, So again he comes

1172
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: from a family that just unlike the law, not making

1173
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 1: any any any conclusions about that, but just she killed

1174
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:19,760
Speaker 1: a cop. She escaped from jail after she was convicted

1175
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: of the killing and supposedly went to Cuba. So people say, well,

1176
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: bos in Cuba, that's where you were. I would have

1177
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 1: won to Cuba. I don't know that i'd go to Cuba.

1178
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,919
Speaker 1: There's some there's some really interesting videos of the sightings

1179
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,639
Speaker 1: of Tupac. You should just go out and google because

1180
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 1: it's pretty awesome. Because it's just some brown skin dude

1181
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 1: walking down the street with his head shaved. Yeah, it's

1182
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 1: like dudes who look kind of vaguely like Upac. But

1183
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 1: the next theory, oh this is yeah. Is the last

1184
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: theory in my favorite Yeah, which I think that a

1185
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 1: lot of people think and a lot of people don't like,

1186
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: but that's okay, is that Suge Knight orbustrated the whole

1187
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: thing on both killings, on both killings, Yeah, which is

1188
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 1: a little bit high risk in the case of the

1189
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 1: Tupac shooting shot a little Yeah. And although that would

1190
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: explain actually why the shooter was in the backseat, because

1191
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: if he's alongside and he would actually not be firing

1192
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: directly into the bat and the side of the car,

1193
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: but actually firing from behind, which would leaves anyway, Am

1194
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 1: I getting ahead of you? But that's the FA point. Yeah,

1195
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: but that would leave, That would leave because the bullets

1196
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,959
Speaker 1: would go into the dash and then the engine apartment

1197
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: instead of going through and so going through tupacing into Yeah, well,

1198
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: let's just back up for two seconds. You did get

1199
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: a little It's totally fine because we are going to

1200
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:45,640
Speaker 1: talk about that, and it's good points to bring up

1201
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,839
Speaker 1: the reason. You remember how I mentioned earlier that Tupac

1202
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: had recorded sixty seven songs in a month. He did

1203
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: that because of sugar. As far as anybody can tell,

1204
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: Tupac had initially fused to join death Row, saying that

1205
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 1: he just wasn't ready in Tupac landed himself in jail

1206
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,640
Speaker 1: on sexual assault charges and he couldn't make bail. It

1207
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: was a pretty high bail in fairness, they really forwarded.

1208
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 1: But should Night decided, oh, hey, I will bail you

1209
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: out if you joined death row? Records, can I clarify

1210
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: something I just because I'm not absolutely was it bailed

1211
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: him out or got him out because I thought he

1212
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: had like a three or four year sentence. That's what

1213
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: I thought too. Actually sprang him out of prison? Yeah,

1214
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 1: he sprang him out of prison with money. So people

1215
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 1: refer to it as kind of bailing him out, because

1216
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: I think, as far as I can tell, it wasn't

1217
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: necessarily bail. It was well, it was served the time

1218
01:12:55,280 --> 01:13:00,679
Speaker 1: or befind X number of dollars. That's my my understanding

1219
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 1: of it. Again, I could be totally off that between

1220
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 1: the time he said yes and the time he walked

1221
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 1: out it was like a month. Yeah, but that's like

1222
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 1: it took almost no time. But uh so Sugar got

1223
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: him out of jail with money. And also, and you know,

1224
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 1: the deal was, i'll get you out of jail. You

1225
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,759
Speaker 1: signed with death Row, and here's this super generous signing

1226
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 1: package that was like a million dollars for his first album,

1227
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars for a car,

1228
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty thousand dollar expense account per year,

1229
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thou dollars, legal allowance, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

1230
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: He there was like fairly generous, pretty good royalty situation

1231
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: that he worked out, lots of percentages and on points.

1232
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: So I just kind of chose to not write any

1233
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: of that stuff down. And I wish I found an

1234
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:54,600
Speaker 1: article because that's really trying to figure out what his

1235
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,680
Speaker 1: contracts said. Yeah, well, essentially he was promised a whole lot.

1236
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, but once Tupac actually signed with death Row,

1237
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: Shug just kind of started screwing him over. He charged

1238
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: you have written down here for a family friendly show

1239
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, so he uh, he charged him outrageous

1240
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: amounts for rent on the apartment that Sug kind of

1241
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: required Tupac livin. He also charged one of He charged

1242
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 1: Tupac for one of his bodyguards child support payments. What wait,

1243
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 1: explain that to me because he took it out of

1244
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: his check. So he had a bodyguard. Tupac had a

1245
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: bunch of different bodyguards, right, so Tupac has to pay

1246
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 1: part of his bodyguards fee. I get that, but you're

1247
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 1: saying he also had to pay for the child sports

1248
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 1: said bodyguard owed to a woman. Well, Sug had him

1249
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: do that, Yes, is my understanding of the Mostly it

1250
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 1: was kind of just a mess. And the deal that

1251
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 1: Tupac had signed with that throw was that he would

1252
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 1: do three albums for them. So he decided, I'm just

1253
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: going to do three albums in a month and get

1254
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: myself out of this crappy situation. And he released one

1255
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,720
Speaker 1: album before he died. He released one, and I think

1256
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: he had recorded the majority of both of them, both

1257
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: of the next ones. He had definitely recorded the entirety

1258
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,640
Speaker 1: of the next one that was released, right, but I

1259
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:39,400
Speaker 1: think he had many of the next album recorded as well. Basically,

1260
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 1: he was recording a bunch of tracks. To say, here's

1261
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: three albums worth. He recorded three songs a day, which

1262
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 1: if you're recording artists or know anything about recording, you

1263
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: know that is an outrageous number. That's a hellacious pace. Yeah. No,

1264
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: he he had done too again pulled the dev I

1265
01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: watched it. Yeah, grabbing sparked food. I think I have

1266
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,280
Speaker 1: the article open. No, he did two albums he had

1267
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:10,719
Speaker 1: done All Eyes on Me was released in nineties six

1268
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 1: and then the Don Kilimannati, which I suddenly can't say

1269
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 1: the seven day theory, that's what it was. We couldn't

1270
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: think of earlier. That was also released in And that's

1271
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: two albums in a year, and he had he was

1272
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,000
Speaker 1: well on his way for a third. He probably could

1273
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: have left him with four albums worth. That's that's saying

1274
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 1: they're going to cut so many in short Sugar with

1275
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: kind of introl and control of Tupac's life for as

1276
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 1: long as Tupac was working for death Row, and he

1277
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: was highly motivated to get the heck out of Dodge.

1278
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: And in fact, it's rumored that Tupac was planning to

1279
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,560
Speaker 1: leave death Row like really soon after the fight in

1280
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 1: Vegas and then sue them for all of his old incomes,

1281
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: like millions of They owed him serious back money, like

1282
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: millions of dollars. They weren't paying anybody at that point.

1283
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: Suge Knight was making a whole Suge Knight was making

1284
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 1: the money, but death Row owed everybody money and there

1285
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:18,320
Speaker 1: was a mass exodus, you know, when Sugar finally went

1286
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: to jail, there was that mass exodus of a lot

1287
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: of artists. They left and went onto their own things.

1288
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 1: Well that's um not gosh. I can't remember when. But

1289
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:33,439
Speaker 1: death Row eventually went bankrupt and they're now owned by

1290
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: Entertainment One. I think it's Entertainment One, which is out

1291
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: of Canada. So they got bought up, and all of

1292
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 1: the legal garbelet cook that has been sued since then

1293
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: for e one has has been stuck with. I don't

1294
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: think they realized what they were getting into. What the

1295
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: Suge Knight's still in jail by the way, No, No,

1296
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 1: he does seven year. I think he did a five

1297
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,000
Speaker 1: or seven year too. He spent five years. He was

1298
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: sentenced to nine. I think he spent five. He spent

1299
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: five in and then he got out and he's doing

1300
01:18:07,320 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 1: whatever he wants now. I'm sure he's quite wealthy. Well,

1301
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,000
Speaker 1: Suge Knight has his own set of problems. In fact,

1302
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: I was going to just talk about that for a second.

1303
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:19,479
Speaker 1: He actually I read something recently on on Reddit that

1304
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,759
Speaker 1: said that his girlfriend, one of his girlfriends, went missing.

1305
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 1: That wouldn't surprise me. He hasn't missing. Is in he

1306
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:33,560
Speaker 1: misplaced her? Yeah? No, I'm guessing that's not what you

1307
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: mean when just he misplaced her, like she just disappeared. Yeah,

1308
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: like he might have just misplaced her, intentionally misplaced her.

1309
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: I was doing the joking misplaced it seems that, and

1310
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 1: I didn't actually do any research into that, and so

1311
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: that could be totally liable. And I'm super sorry if

1312
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 1: that's true. But Suge Knight, however, is truly demonstratively a

1313
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,560
Speaker 1: bad man. He Here's the story that I like to

1314
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: tell about Suge Knight, which I think is fairly interesting. Uh,

1315
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 1: it involves Vanilla Ice. He actually I don't remember. I

1316
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: don't like Vanilla Ice. Yeah, I don't remember what the

1317
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 1: situation was why Shug was mad at Vanilla Ice. No, no, no,

1318
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: actually that's not true. I totally do remember. It was

1319
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 1: that the he had a tenuous business agreement with the

1320
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 1: guy who produced Vanilla's ICE's Ice Ice Baby, and he

1321
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 1: exploited that to gain the rights or trying strong arm

1322
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: the rights of Ice Ice Baby from the dude who

1323
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 1: actually owned the rights and Vanilla Ice, and Vanilla Ice

1324
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 1: was like, nah, I'm gonna keep that, thanks, and Sugar

1325
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: was trying to strong arm him into signing the rights

1326
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: over to him and death Row. So Sugar, after a

1327
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:57,799
Speaker 1: series of other kind of trying to intimidate Vanilla Ice tactics,

1328
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 1: shows up at a hote tell the Vanilisa staying in

1329
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: with two of his giant bodyguards, gets him on the

1330
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: balcony and either does dangle him off the balcony or

1331
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,439
Speaker 1: says he's about to dangle him off the balcony. I

1332
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:19,879
Speaker 1: think he actually did do that. Definitely could have actually

1333
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 1: done that. Anyways, Well that's than that when he first

1334
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:25,799
Speaker 1: when when he first opened up his label. To remember

1335
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: I was alluding to this, yeah, yeah, when he visited

1336
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: that guy and basically after an hour with him and

1337
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 1: his tooth, his tooth thug accomplices, basically persuaded this guy

1338
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 1: to just signed over its reacts. You know that I

1339
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 1: can't remember the guy's name now, Easy, easy, who if

1340
01:20:46,600 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 1: you know the music catalog was a bad guy. He

1341
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:55,320
Speaker 1: was a strong presence in the community or in the

1342
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: rap community, and just for no money, for no nothing,

1343
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,799
Speaker 1: just just I'll give you Trey, I'll give you a snoop.

1344
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: I'll just give you my biggest acts in a in

1345
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 1: a meeting. It's just like, what did he have over

1346
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 1: easy to be able to pull that off? That's a

1347
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 1: good question. Pounds, I don't I mean, I don't think

1348
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 1: that it was a matter of money or size. I

1349
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:28,680
Speaker 1: think that he wasn't afraid to pull some devious practices.

1350
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 1: And I think that him I think he blackmailed, He

1351
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 1: caught him his pants down somewhere and got him in trouble,

1352
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 1: or could get him in trouble. You know, had a

1353
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:45,240
Speaker 1: piece of evidence, whether it be verbal or physical. It's

1354
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 1: scared easy enough to just say, all right, dude, you can,

1355
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 1: I you never gonna Can I have that document? Can

1356
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 1: I have that whatever? Get out of my office and

1357
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 1: never talk to me again. So he was obviously not

1358
01:21:56,160 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: a dude. And these this is all for stuff that's

1359
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:03,759
Speaker 1: way less than millions of dollars in his reputation, because

1360
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 1: had Tupac actually left death Row and sued for millions

1361
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:11,679
Speaker 1: and drag Sugars name through the mud, that costs sug

1362
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: way more than say killing, so essentially goes, well, it's

1363
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: it's free if you already have dirty cops on your

1364
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure you had to give him a bonus for

1365
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: the wax, sure, but not that much. Probably the thing Okay,

1366
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: I don't think shug get it well, he didn't pull

1367
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 1: the trigger. I don't think Sugar organized the Biggie killing,

1368
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm highly doubtful that he organized the Tupac killing.

1369
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: And my reason is is that Suge Knight is a bully.

1370
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:56,439
Speaker 1: He's a big, hulking, red glowing eye bully. But I

1371
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:01,240
Speaker 1: don't think that he has the wherewithal to organize it all.

1372
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:03,680
Speaker 1: You don't think so, I don't think so. I think

1373
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 1: that his play is I'm gonna stand in front of

1374
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 1: you and I'm going to scare the holy hell out

1375
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 1: of you. But I don't think that he has the

1376
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: wherewithal to plan like what we were talking about where

1377
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: it takes all these bits and pieces of the car,

1378
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:19,639
Speaker 1: you know, the U turn car and then the other one.

1379
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 1: You don't think are you saying he doesn't have the

1380
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: mental camel power? And I don't think he does. I

1381
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 1: think that's outside of his range of ability. But he

1382
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 1: can hire. But he can hire professionals who are good

1383
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: at that. Okay, you're right, that is completely possible. Well,

1384
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: so one thing we haven't really talked about because I

1385
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: was trying to keep this episode under two hours is

1386
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: that two hours shot? Is that shug antipop both but

1387
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 1: should particularly had a huge love for mob movies. He did,

1388
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 1: And it's not wildly out there to assume that he

1389
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 1: watched enough of The Godfather or whatever other mom movies

1390
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: to come up with a Hollywood convoluted plan enough that

1391
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,080
Speaker 1: he could tell all the you know, off to the

1392
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: cops that he had on his payroll, Hey, I want

1393
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 1: to do this thing, and then they would say, oh,

1394
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:16,880
Speaker 1: well we'll do it this way. Okay, let's let's run

1395
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:20,600
Speaker 1: down that. Sure, I'm trying to remember the name of

1396
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: the documentary that gave me all the information that I'm

1397
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: thinking about. It's the one that came out in two

1398
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: thousand and seven. It was Tupac assassination or something. I

1399
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:35,640
Speaker 1: can't remember pac assassination. Well, no, it's assassination or the

1400
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 1: second one was just assassination. The one that came out

1401
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine was just Tupac assassination. The two

1402
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,600
Speaker 1: thousand seven had a double part on it. But the

1403
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: point is what that one brings out. And this is

1404
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:53,080
Speaker 1: why I know everybody thinks Shug did it. Is that

1405
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:56,479
Speaker 1: we were talking about right Way security, the security guards.

1406
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,320
Speaker 1: There was a whole bunch of weird stuff that happened

1407
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,200
Speaker 1: in Vegas that weekend where suddenly the bodyguards were told

1408
01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 1: not to carry guns. They were being shuffled around. Now

1409
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 1: you're watching Park, Now you're watching Shugar. Now you're gonna

1410
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:14,040
Speaker 1: go to the bar, and now you're gonna come back

1411
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 1: like weird shuffling, So nobody knew where anybody was this

1412
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 1: whole What I would attribute to terrible management, other people

1413
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 1: have attributed to let's shake them up so they don't

1414
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 1: know what's going on. So nobody knows where they're at,

1415
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: so it's easy to make the hit. But again, I

1416
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: right way security I think is is was just poorly managed.

1417
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 1: But people say, um, what Reggie Right, when Shuge Knight

1418
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: went to prison, you know who took over death row,

1419
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,439
Speaker 1: Reggie Right Jr. He's the one who took the whole

1420
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 1: thing over. So I never hear him as the one

1421
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 1: who should have been respond possible for creating the whole thing.

1422
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 1: Because let's let's take another angle. Okay, Shug is just

1423
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: peeved that he's gonna lose his top artist, but he

1424
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 1: also owns the rights to all that music that artist

1425
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 1: has made, so he's going to make the money on it.

1426
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:18,000
Speaker 1: But Reggie Wright, who wants to get to be the

1427
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 1: top dude, says, wait, my boss is on parole and

1428
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: I just I know he just beat the crap out

1429
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 1: of some guy and I can totally get him in trouble.

1430
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, I hate that Tupac guy. Why

1431
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:31,640
Speaker 1: don't I do this stuff? Like he's in control of

1432
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and he was in control and for

1433
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 1: five years until Suge Night got out of prison. I mean, again,

1434
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:40,679
Speaker 1: I don't think this is right. But if we're gonna

1435
01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 1: say Sugar is responsible, Why don't we say Reggie right

1436
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: is junior is responsible and all that he probably would

1437
01:26:48,680 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: have even if the order had come from Sugar. I mean,

1438
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 1: Reggie would have been involved. I'm sure. Yeah, but yeah,

1439
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 1: you're right, You're right. It's possible that Reggie could have

1440
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: done it all on his own without shows knowledge. We

1441
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:00,519
Speaker 1: we hear all these things about you know, Bob hits

1442
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: it where the dawn dies and it turns out and

1443
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:07,520
Speaker 1: underlaying who had you know, these these cravings for powers,

1444
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 1: the one who set the whole thing up thinking he

1445
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: would take over it could be the same thing again

1446
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 1: you talked about earlier. Is kind of this Hollywood thing

1447
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 1: that I saw this in a movie and it worked.

1448
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 1: I could totally do that. Do I think that's what happened. No,

1449
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: but just as pausible, I guess, just to my point

1450
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: or to your point of uh, Sugar still making money

1451
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:35,760
Speaker 1: off Tupac's money or records, that's fair, except that he

1452
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: was going to get sued for a whole bunch of money.

1453
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter you have more money potentially coming

1454
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,240
Speaker 1: in on record sales, because you're gonna have to give.

1455
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: You have to give most of it up. Well, but

1456
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 1: according to the contract, they owned the rights. And that's

1457
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 1: the way I mean, that's I mean, I was I try.

1458
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: I got into some contract law because I had the

1459
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 1: same question. Okay, they're gonna they do. They do own

1460
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 1: the rights. That's fine. Tupac would never get those rights back.

1461
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 1: But for the amount of money that he was talking

1462
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 1: about suing, for the amount of money that he was owed,

1463
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:10,560
Speaker 1: it could have very easily bankrupted. At least shug I

1464
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,600
Speaker 1: questioned the amount of money that he was owed. I'm

1465
01:28:13,640 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 1: not going to disagree with the fact that death Row

1466
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 1: was charging him exorbitant amounts of money for things. I mean,

1467
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,679
Speaker 1: I've I've seen the laundry list of you know, video

1468
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 1: production and and car rental, and you know, a hundred

1469
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 1: thousand dollar hotel room bill like this. Whether it's true

1470
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: or not, it doesn't matter. But the label takes on

1471
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 1: covering your costs. You get paid after those costs recovered.

1472
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,439
Speaker 1: And they I think that they probably could have made

1473
01:28:44,479 --> 01:28:47,720
Speaker 1: a strong case to say this dude was charging things

1474
01:28:47,800 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 1: out there wazoo and he gets this. Okay, Steve, you

1475
01:28:52,800 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 1: don't like Suge Knight, who did it? Then? I don't

1476
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 1: know who did it. This is one of those things.

1477
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,639
Speaker 1: This to me is like talking about the Nity killing

1478
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: because there's so many effing players involved that it's it

1479
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 1: could have been any of them, and it could have

1480
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 1: been all of them. It could have been somebody we

1481
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:13,240
Speaker 1: don't even know about. I mean, you're talking. I mean,

1482
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna blame I'm gonna blame Dan Quayle because he's

1483
01:29:17,320 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 1: just as likely aspect well you know. Yeah, and when

1484
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: you when you have all these gang members involved, I mean,

1485
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,600
Speaker 1: factions that are don't even reach the radar of reporting

1486
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 1: because they're just they're they're on the street, they're not

1487
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 1: in the news. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I

1488
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 1: like Sugar Knight. I mean I don't like Sugar Knight.

1489
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Actually I like him as and I don't think he

1490
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 1: pulled the trigger in either one of these heads. But

1491
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 1: I did think that it's quite likely because he did

1492
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:50,719
Speaker 1: have a motive. Ye have a good motive, and obviously

1493
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:54,680
Speaker 1: it was pretty bare knuckle kind of guy. Yeah, I'm

1494
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 1: not afraid to use violence. I think it was Shug

1495
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 1: Night too, but yeah, it's just me. Yeah, I mean,

1496
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 1: any more theories that you guys have any more? Yeah, Yeah,

1497
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 1: why did we not bring the Masons in. Yeah, we

1498
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 1: brought the Illuminati. Yeah, or the Illuminati. Excuse me, I

1499
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:19,800
Speaker 1: said Illuminaties. That was stupid. So yeah, who else is

1500
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 1: the Druids? Well then I guess that's enough of Biggie

1501
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,799
Speaker 1: and Tupac. You know, we can go for like another

1502
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 1: forty minutes, and we can make those people who wanted

1503
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:39,080
Speaker 1: the longer episodes around their office for like another forty minute.

1504
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in that. It's time for the credits

1505
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:49,720
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. We have links for some of

1506
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 1: our research on the website Thinking sideways podcast dot com.

1507
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: You can stream our episodes there. You can download our

1508
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 1: episodes there can also donate or buy merch there. Night Light, Yeah,

1509
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: we just stand in the night like at the suggestion

1510
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: of one of our listeners said, listen, I make the

1511
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 1: mistake of listening to your episodes at night in the

1512
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 1: dark in my house. Please any tonight like suggestion. You

1513
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,719
Speaker 1: probably aren't listening to us there, though, you're probably listening

1514
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:28,600
Speaker 1: to us on iTunes. If you are, leave us a

1515
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: comments and a rating so other people can find us.

1516
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,120
Speaker 1: You could also be streaming us on a host of

1517
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: different streaming sites, apps, things I've stopped adding Yeah, I

1518
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:43,960
Speaker 1: can't find Yeah, I can't either. Um, if you want

1519
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,040
Speaker 1: to connect on social media with us, you can do

1520
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: so either. At Facebook we have a fan page and

1521
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,720
Speaker 1: a group, so you find this friend us and like us.

1522
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: We also have Twitter, which is thinking sideways. You can

1523
01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 1: also send us an email. It's thinking side with podcast

1524
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Stop sending us email is a

1525
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:13,320
Speaker 1: little a little with a dessert because the box has

1526
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 1: been just a little bit insane, like two weeks and

1527
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 1: we got a lot of emails. Don't so don't stop

1528
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 1: sending us email. But we like we like email. It

1529
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 1: may take us a little extra time to get back

1530
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,759
Speaker 1: to you these days. Yeah, I've actually sort of knocked

1531
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,599
Speaker 1: off work early the other day just to work through

1532
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 1: some emails because well we had a bunch of um

1533
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:38,519
Speaker 1: that having been said, I think we're gonna get out

1534
01:32:38,560 --> 01:32:47,040
Speaker 1: of here. I think we need to wrap. Oh so

1535
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 1: nobody good rap songs. Besides, how much would could it

1536
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:56,160
Speaker 1: would chuck chuck throw your hands in the air, yotized, Well,

1537
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: please somebody turn this off before we make ourselves look

1538
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 1: at looking stupid air composns in the air. Future player, Bye,