1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: M H. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session two oh three of 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcast. We'll get into 13 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: the episode right after a word from our sponsors. Today 14 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Dr G for an important conversation to 15 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: help us dig a little deeper into gender and gender expression. 16 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: Dr G is a non binary queer, first generation Afro 17 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Caribbean and serves as a licensed psychologist, writer, Buddhist chaplain, 18 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: death du La Yoga Nidra teacher, spiritual creative and public speaker. 19 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: Dr G's healing work centers the liberation within intersectional identities 20 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: of Black, Indigenous, and people of color in their living 21 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: or transitioned ancestors. Doc engages the intersections of topics such 22 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: as grief, death and dying, liminal spaces, race, gender identity, meditation, trauma, 23 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: and semantic healing. To G and I chatted about the 24 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: differences between sex and gender identity, de stigmatizing gender expression 25 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: in the black community, some of the common misconceptions about 26 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: non binary people, and strategies for supporting kids in their 27 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: gender expression. If there's something that resonates with you while 28 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media 29 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: using the hashtag TBG in Session. Here's our conversation. Thank 30 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today, Dr G. Thank you. 31 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be in conversation with you. Yes, 32 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: it is. I'm so glad that you were able to 33 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: squeeze us into your schedule, and I would love for 34 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: you to start by just telling us a little bit 35 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: about yourself as well as your practice and what brought 36 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: you into the field of psychology. Sure, I'm going to 37 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: like to what. I'm a first generation Afro Caribbean gender 38 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: queer being, and I am a writer, I'm a psychologist, 39 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: I'm a public speaker, I'm a Buddhish chaplain. I always 40 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: tell people if it's something to do with liminal space, 41 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: if it's about liberation, then that's what I center and 42 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: that's what I do. So my clinical practice focuses much 43 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: on the liberation of BIPOC and l G B t 44 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: Q minds, and so that will look like somatic work, 45 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: existential work, afro centric work. And I do a lot 46 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: of trauma informed work. And I've been doing that for 47 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: less over fifteen years at this point. We just stopped 48 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: counting after ten, right, Yeah, So a lot of people 49 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: who find their way to me seem to be change makers, activists, 50 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: and people who really appreciate the process of growth and 51 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: transformation not just within their own lives but intergenerationally. You know. 52 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm always just so inspired by how people in psychology 53 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: kind of just make their own spaces and like figure 54 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: out how to use what we've been taught but then 55 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: transform it, you know, for communities that are not typically 56 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: what we're trained on. And so I would love to 57 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: hear like how you've been able to kind of do 58 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: continuing education or other work that has allowed you to 59 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: like expand your practice in this way. M I feel 60 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: like it was really blessed for the school that I went. 61 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: So I went to the Chicago School Professional Psychology in Chicago, 62 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: and they were so community based, and so I from 63 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: there learned to just go to the community to learn 64 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: about whomever and what what wasn't covered in school. So 65 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: I always say my grad school learning was outside, just 66 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: going to conferences, going to meetings, sometimes just even going 67 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: to religious institutions and just meeting people. I learned a 68 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: lot just by hearing people's stories, and and that was 69 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: to fill out what wasn't covered. I feel like in 70 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: traditional like doctoral level programs, and I found that that 71 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: was where the difference was. I would often go to 72 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: continue education events that were held by counselors and social 73 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: workers because they were more community based. I found that 74 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: they had more interest in intersections of people's identities than 75 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: did a traditional doctoral program. So going to those conferences 76 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 1: was really how I flushed out a lot of my learning. 77 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: And I create my own path. I'm just a person 78 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: who doesn't follow necessarily where a p A maybe following, 79 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: because I realized that they're way behind the times, and 80 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: so I just create my own path. I'm like, these 81 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: people don't have a voice at the table. I want 82 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: to learn about them. I'm going to find out. Mm hmm, 83 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Do you do any 84 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: kind of supervision or like helping younger people in the 85 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 1: profession to kind of follow that path or a similar path? 86 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: You know, that is a place of transition that's starting 87 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: to happen right now these last couple of years, you know, 88 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: becoming middle career and really sitting and thinking about that 89 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: there isn't that available for us, And for particularly I 90 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: can't handle all of the clients that I see who 91 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: are black or bipoc and it's actually bipark and queer 92 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: at that intersection. And so a lot of people all 93 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: over the country will contact me, especially now that things 94 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: have opened up with regard to these COVID pandemic times, 95 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: and so I said, I can't service all y'all, like 96 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: and I want to. Um, So I've been thinking about 97 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: what would this path that I'm doing and have done 98 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: look like as a model for other people. So that's 99 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: it's in the works. Yeah, And I know I'm sure 100 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: that there is a huge need for it right because 101 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: of these reasons. Because like we talked about, you don't 102 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: you don't get these kinds of trainings often in grad school. Yeah. Yeah, 103 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 1: So I appreciate that much of your work is really 104 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: helping people to kind of figure out identity, and so 105 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: I love for you to just maybe start a lot 106 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: of your work focuses on gender identity and helping people 107 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: to really kind of express themselves in the fullness of 108 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: who they are. But I think a lot of times 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: we can get really caught up in like the definitions, 110 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: and a lot of people will like really get stuck here, 111 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: and I think it gets really confusing for a lot 112 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: of people when we're trying to have these conversations. So 113 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: can you kind of just start us at the like 114 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: basic levels all in terms of like the definition between 115 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: like sex and gender identity. Sure, I would delight in that. 116 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: I will say that just as an umbrella. Anyone who's 117 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: working with me or conversing with me knows that I 118 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: will define something and dismantle it all the same conversations. 119 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: So I will try to as mess as possible stick 120 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: to the definition as a grounding point for people. But 121 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: I think in the spirit of understanding even just identity, 122 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: knowing that our identities change sometimes moment to moment, day 123 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: to day is really important to who I am and 124 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: how I understand the work. So I just want to 125 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: make that statement, and before we go into definitions. So first, 126 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: when we talk about someone's sex, we're speaking about what 127 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: genitalia and chromosomes they were born with a time of birth. 128 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: And when we speak about someone's gender identity, we're really 129 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: speaking about someone's internal sense of their gender, like who 130 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: they feel that they are, and that falls on a spectrum. Oftentimes, 131 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: when we think about just gender in its entirety, we 132 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: are often just thinking about male or female, and oftentimes 133 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: it's referring to someone's sex. But we're beginning to really 134 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: learn that gender is a multi pronged definition. It is 135 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: far beyond just what are sex is at birth. I 136 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: want to go back to your comment around identity changing 137 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: from moment to moment, because I don't know that that 138 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: is something i've heard discussed in that way, though I 139 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: totally get it when I hear you say it, right, 140 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: And I wonder if you can kind of just expound 141 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: on that, because I think we seem to think about 142 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: identity as you know, relatively fixed, but you're saying that 143 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: can change. Can you say a little bit more about it? Yeah, 144 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: you know, one of our earliest constructs, and this will 145 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: kind of lead into how we speak about different under 146 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: identities when I start to talk about transgender identity and 147 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: particularly non binary gender identity, is that, you know, one 148 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: of our earliest constructs, you know, the ways that we 149 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: define ourselves as a people is gender. You know, you 150 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: think about when someone comes into the world, the first 151 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: thing we're like, oh, is it a boy or a girl? Right? 152 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: And it gives I feel like constructs give us reference 153 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: points and reference points. For whatever reason, I only have 154 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: this American society to kind of go by, become very solidified, 155 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: and they become the markers of how we learn, what 156 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: we can do, what our roles might be. And so 157 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: from very early on from me, you think about from 158 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: the moment you were born, you are being put in 159 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: an identity box, right, and that box has roles, and 160 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: those roles to find how you might move in society, 161 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: and how you move in society depends on what mobility 162 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: you might have and where you have access, right. And 163 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: so for whatever reason, we have become very stuck on 164 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: this binary as a people, and it has not a 165 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: lot a lot of room for innately what is existence 166 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: in nature, you know, existing plants that exists in animals, 167 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: a sense of a spectrum that we're never a hundred 168 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: percent male and a hundred percent female or a hundred 169 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: percent adhering to the roles that we have constructed for 170 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,319 Speaker 1: those sex identities. What do you think is so threatening 171 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: for people, especially since you're giving examples of, you know, 172 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: how this exists in multiple areas of life. What do 173 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: you think is so threatening for people to really be 174 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: able to appreciate that things are not a dent anyway? 175 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: I feel like, if this is just my opinion, I 176 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: think people really like certainty. And you know, if you 177 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: think about how in our brain and of itself is 178 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: function on a sense of efficiency, you know, where we 179 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: can kind of have a sense of what something is like. 180 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,719 Speaker 1: I can look at something that has four legs and 181 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: a flat top and say that's a table, and we 182 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: can generalize that so that every day when I'm moving 183 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: through my home, I don't have to like stop and 184 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: look at this thing and renegotiate what it is like 185 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: really just being question like, huh, it has four legs, 186 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: look at that it's gonna a flat top. I wonder 187 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: what it could be that process actually takes time. And 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: you know, in American society is about efficiency, and our 189 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: minds are also about efficiency. And so I don't think 190 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: anybody really likes uncertainty or not knowing. It causes just 191 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of anxiety, which I think is normal 192 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: for just our human existence, because we don't know everything. 193 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: But the more that we can make known or that 194 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: we can think are known, the less anxiety that we experience, 195 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: both on an existential level and maybe more for other people. 196 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: So we extend that to people, you know, So I know, 197 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: Dr Joy, you look like this, you sound like this, 198 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: Then I can just keep that fix in my mind 199 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: and I don't have to guess anymore who you might 200 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: be the next time you call me up, you know. 201 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: But what that does is it leaves out that we 202 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: inherently change as a people. Might we're not still in 203 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: diapers and you know, and eating baby food. We change, 204 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: we grow, we learn, we get exposed to things, we 205 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: are influenced, we learn about ourselves. So all of that 206 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: indicates that we are changing beings. But for whatever reason, 207 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: perhaps just to minimize that like existential anxiety of not knowing, 208 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: we ascribe things to very fixed conditions. MM hmmm, yeah, 209 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: And I appreciate you putting it in the context of efficiency, 210 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: because I do think that that is how we often 211 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: move through life, right like, Okay, I wanna quickly know 212 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: this answer and move on, but it does for in us. 213 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I think from actually getting to know people, which is 214 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, of course, a lot of what I'm sure 215 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: your work is about is like actually taking the time 216 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: to get to know people as opposed to thinking about 217 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: who are what they might be based on something that 218 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 1: you are likely incorrect about. M h yes, yeah, yeah, 219 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: So I'd love for you to go more into talking 220 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: about the binary. You know, so we do know that 221 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: people will sometimes identify as transgender and then other people 222 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: will identify as non binary. Can you talk about the differences? Sure? 223 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: Of course. I would love to just also make a reference. 224 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: I'm a very visual person. For those out there who 225 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: are visual learners, there's a reference called the gingerbread person, 226 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: and this is a visual that talks about gender as 227 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: a spectrum, but it also includes gender identity gender expression, 228 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: which is ones assigned gender roles, mannerisms, and their interests 229 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: and behaviors that tend to align with along the spectrum 230 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: male or female. And I think and also attraction and 231 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: sexual orientation, And I just really think that when we're 232 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: new to these words and terminologies, it's really helpful to 233 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: have a visual representation of what these definitions look like. 234 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: So I just want to make that that note when 235 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: we speak about transgender. You know, transgender non binary are 236 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: often use synonymously, but they are different, and so I 237 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: want to distinguish between the two. So transgender people are 238 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: people whose gender identity, like their internal sense of who 239 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: they are, differs from the sex assigned at birth. Right, 240 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: So it's nothing to do with a person's sexual orientation. 241 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: It's being heterosexual, les being gay, bisexual, pan sexual, or 242 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: a sexual right, but has to do with how they 243 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: feel about themselves, who they know themselves to be, and 244 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: the body that they were assigned with at birth. And 245 00:14:55,800 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: oftentimes those who identify as transgender do identify as being 246 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: male or female. So that's transgender non binary. Now I 247 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: would distinguish as his own gender identity, and this identity 248 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: I think causes the most dissonance for people because they 249 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of prejudices around people and identities being fluid. 250 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: So these are people who are neither you know, male 251 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: or female, and don't fit into either box. They may flow, 252 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: or they may not identify with any gender at all, 253 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: or their gender changes over time. So you might hear 254 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: non binary use synonymously with words like gender, queer, bi, 255 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: gender a gender. But that's what the difference is there, 256 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: And again it has nothing to do with who they're 257 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: attracted to sexually. That can still be a person who 258 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: is non binary, can still be heterosexual, les being gay, 259 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: and so on. And is gender non conforming another term 260 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: for non binarians. There's something different, something different, so slight nuance. 261 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: So gender non conforming speaks to when I was speaking 262 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: about gender roles in the beginning. It speaks to not 263 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: conforming specifically to a certain gender role or the gender stereotypes, 264 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: or how they may express oneself. So you might hear 265 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: tomboys or maybe a female body being liking to wear suits. 266 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: You know, that doesn't adhere to how we've defined the 267 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: gender normative as only male body people's wear suits. Right, 268 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: So it's about the stereotypes, bending stereotypes in expression. Okay, 269 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: So it is more closely related to like a gender expression, 270 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: got it? Okay? Okay, Yeah, More from my conversation with 271 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: Dr G right after the break, and I wonder if 272 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: you can talk a little bit more about that, like 273 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: about gender expression specifically in the Black community. You know, 274 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: I think that at times, not all the time, but 275 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: I think at times there has been a little bit 276 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: more leeway for people to kind of show up however 277 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: they want to look. But I'd love to hear your 278 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: thoughts about, like the gender expression in the Black community 279 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: in any stigma that you feel like we still need 280 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: to work towards getting rid of. I find that now 281 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: it working backwards that now were Black people as a 282 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: whole or becoming more connected with their African identities and 283 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: the lineage and understanding where we came from. There's an 284 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: understanding that gender expression and the fluidity of that expression 285 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: has existed for millennia. And so you know, when we 286 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: talk about indigenous cultures, you know in Nigeria, Yandu they 287 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: were maybe a sign mail at birth, but they dressed 288 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: it traditionally female garbed and they're accepted. Even a lot 289 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: of spiritual paths will will allow for different gender expressions. 290 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: Same sex relationships are condoned. And South Africa right now 291 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: in general is being is leading the way in as 292 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: far as black culture is concerned and accepting and allowing 293 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: and legalizing same sex relations and you know, an adoption. 294 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: So it's really to show like this has been how 295 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: we have moved for quite some time. And I think 296 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: that when we speak about our history here in America, 297 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: how these contructs have gotten hardened, how that like history 298 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: has been separated from us in our identity or not 299 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: as visible in us and our identities because much of 300 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: what we experience here in America's is crafted along a 301 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: white construct, and white construct has eliminated a lot of 302 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: our history and has defined us in the way that 303 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: they want to define up. So we see this in 304 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: our institutions and so on. So that's just what we're 305 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: seeing and what's visible all the time, and so it's 306 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: very easy, I think for people to forget that. Oh no, 307 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: we do express ourselves in different ways. When I think 308 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: about the arts, you know, when I think about music 309 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: and other spaces, and especially when we start to speak 310 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: about religion, I find that that is usually the space 311 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: where there's much more rigidity around acceptance of gender expression 312 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: in the Black community. And you know, it's all a 313 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: work in progress. Some communities, spiritual communities are more accepting 314 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: or beginning to understand the harm that can be caused 315 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: in rejecting our black brothers and sisters and beings. And 316 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: so there's more inclusion and more discussion about how to 317 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: be more inclusive. Mm hmmm. And I love to hear 318 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: your thoughts, Actig about how we continue to push that, Like, 319 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: what suggestions do you have for how we can move 320 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: beyond the binary one. Knowing our roots, as I mentioned, 321 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: the history is they're just studying where one comes from 322 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: is super important. And understanding that this is a part 323 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: of who we are, that we do run. We're fluid beings. 324 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: That's a part of our human experience to be as such. 325 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: And then also nature. You know, sometimes people don't want 326 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: to be so personal, and I've told people, look at 327 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: what nature does you know? Tomato plants are by nature, 328 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: they could be male, they could be female, they could 329 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: be neither. Like this way of being is natural as well, 330 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: um and educating ourselves. I just feel that educating and 331 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: having conversation with one another is where we find out 332 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: that we need to come together as a black community. 333 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: Because regardless if we are non binary, transgender, or whether 334 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: we're heterosexual or cis gender meaning our sex of birth 335 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: is aligned with who we feel we are. We're still 336 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: a black community and we're at risk for some of 337 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: the same inequities in this especially in this country, that 338 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: others are, and we need one another. We need to 339 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: understand each other's stories to know how we can be 340 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: co conspirators in having liberated, equitable ways of life. So 341 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: we talked a little earlier about, you know, like why 342 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: people often feel so threatened by people who you know 343 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: exist wherever on the spectrum, But I'd love to hear 344 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: also like any common misconceptions you think people have related 345 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: to non binary people. M m m mmmm. There's a 346 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: feeling that those who identifies non binary are confused and 347 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: they just haven't made up their mind. And again this 348 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: goes back to the expectation that we have to choose 349 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: and identity, that things have to be on the binary 350 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: and either or kind of way of being. There's, as 351 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned before and defining transgender and non binary, some 352 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: people feel that transitor people are non binary as well, 353 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: or that if you defy as either non binary or transgender, 354 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: that automatically means that you identify as being gay or lesbian. 355 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: You know, so one sexual orientation is assumed based on 356 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: their gender identity, so that's often a fallacy. And then 357 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: again along the lines of confusion, most people will confuse 358 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: non binary with being intersect and intersects that haven't defined. 359 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: But intersex is when your anatomy or your genes at 360 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: birth don't fit the typical definitions of being male or female, 361 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: while a non binary persons, you know genes and anatomy 362 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: are synchronous with either being male or female at birth. 363 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: So terminology again, we get wrapped up in terms and 364 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: assume one is the other or we don't know. We 365 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: assume everything is in one box and we don't ask questions. 366 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: So I feel that often leads the most misconceptions and 367 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: just saying I don't know what any of that means, 368 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: so they all must be the same thing m as 369 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: opposed to I don't know, let me try to figure 370 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: it out. Yes, ask a question, It's okay, not know right, 371 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: But you know, I think that brings up another point 372 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: of like, if you don't know, how do you get 373 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: this information? Because I think some people like want to 374 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: try to directly ask someone and that may be okay 375 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: depending on like what relationship you have with that person, 376 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: But we also shouldn't expect that people would just share 377 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 1: their personal stories with us just because we ask, so, 378 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: where can people maybe find information, you know, like to 379 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: find out more or to have a better understanding. Well, 380 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: one I will say, I do want to challenge that 381 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: that we always ask each other's names, right, you know, 382 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: if I don't know you were, just like you know, 383 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: when we met, I said, hey, how would you like 384 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: to be addressed? You know, what pronouns do you use? 385 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to assume, right, And so there's there's 386 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: no harm in that. You're ready creating a very inclusive 387 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: space and environment by just asking a person, and you'd 388 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: be surprised how much a person is willing to share 389 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: if you have the intention of just wanting to know. 390 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: So I don't want to minimize that as a way, 391 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: because personal stories allow our intersectional identities. Many people that 392 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: I work with theyre both black and non binary and 393 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, an immigrant and you know, so to get 394 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: those hands in sometimes a lot of the literature that's 395 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: out there doesn't cover that. So we meet each other's stories. 396 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: So I really want to drive home how important that is. 397 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: But very like popular sites and spaces that you can 398 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: go or like the National Center for Trans the Quality 399 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: the Human Rights Center has a plethora of things available 400 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: for just increasing your knowledge and for those who are 401 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: parents who are wanting to support their youth. And I 402 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: name this too because sometimes people believe that gender identity 403 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: is something that is a phase and perhaps kids will 404 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: grow out of it more figure it out and beyond 405 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: the binary and and that's not the case. We know 406 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: who we are very young, as under two years old, 407 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean three years old, we're already knowing who we are. 408 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 1: And I think that that's a construct to that's that 409 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: we're honoring children more. And so really being able to 410 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: be a citizen and a being who's able to witness 411 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: and then offer support for our children's really important. So 412 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: HRC also offers supporting services and articles for caring for 413 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: our transgender children. And you know, and sometimes therapy can 414 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: be helpful. And again that's why a lot of people 415 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: come to me, because i'm, you know, the one percent 416 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: of the five percent of the three percent you know identity. 417 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: And so the National Queer and Trans Therapist of Color 418 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: Network also offers, you know, servant therapists who can look 419 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: like them. We have a shared story or some shared 420 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: experience that could be so resonant and affirming, and that 421 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: is often you know, the rejection that trans and non 422 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: binary people's experience from their families, from schools, from institutions, 423 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: for people in their own community, often that's what sets 424 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: off a lot of the predispositions for for just poor 425 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: mental health and poor resiliency, and that and that, and 426 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: just being affirming could be so helpful in a person's development, 427 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, just saying hey, yes, I hear you. And 428 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: that's why I don't want to minimize that, because this 429 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: makes a world of a difference. Yeah, I want to 430 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: stay with the idea of children for just a second 431 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: actor and hear more of your thoughts about how we 432 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: can honor a child's expression of themselves, no matter how 433 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: young they are. Mm hmmmm, I don't know about you. 434 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: One of the things that I have to make a 435 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: distinction of, like black parenting, because there is a way 436 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: that and I don't want to make a broad based statement, 437 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: but I'll use my own example where you're very much 438 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: your you belong to your family and and they craft you, 439 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: and so it's almost like you are not your own person. 440 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,479 Speaker 1: And in that way, I think that already we're starting 441 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: with a limitation because I know even from my own process, 442 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: my family said I didn't raise you to be like this, 443 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: and that could be hard to view parenting as a 444 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: path of surrender. That like, our role is not to 445 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: make many versions of of ourselves, but rather to really 446 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: see fully who these beings are to come into the world, 447 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: and to support them to the fullness of their beings. 448 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: So very simple, and again, like I said, it starts 449 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: early that we impose this construct on our children of 450 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: being of a certain adhering to certain gender norms. So 451 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: just they may come up with a name that they 452 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: prefer to be called, call them that name, you know, 453 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: or any pronouns they use, use those pronouns all ways, 454 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: always just as black people as we should understand how 455 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: our ability to name ourselves has been taken away from us. 456 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: So it's really powerful to be called who you are 457 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: m and stay positive. If you don't know you know, 458 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: as apparent and often we don't know a lot, be 459 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: okay with not knowing and going in to educate yourself 460 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: rather than rejecting, you know, so firm support. Listen, there's 461 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: a plethora, I feel like of books right now that 462 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: are speaking to the positive legacies that decenter whiteness but 463 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,640 Speaker 1: really center the narratives of black LGBTQ people's and often 464 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: many of them have been like leaders of our most 465 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: prominent movements. Are most prominent writers like Marsha P. Johnson 466 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: and Alicia Garza and Angela Davis, James Baldwin. You know, 467 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: we have positive legacies of what you know, queer lgb 468 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: two blackness can look like, you know, and so let's 469 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 1: read those stories to our children, right, Let's read about 470 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: them the coming around, like belonging to your family. I 471 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: think that is so powerful because I do think that 472 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: that is what trips a lot of parents up, because 473 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: if your child comes to you with, you know, a 474 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: proclamation of who they are that doesn't fit with who 475 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: you think they are who they should be, then I 476 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: think that there's all this work that the parent has 477 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: to do, like to like break their own stereotypes in 478 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: their head before they can even see their child for 479 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: who they are. So it really feels like you need 480 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: to start having these conversations. That's why it's so important, 481 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: I think, kind of broadly to be making space for 482 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: all identities so that you don't have all of that 483 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: work to do when your child comes to you and says, 484 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: this is the name I prefer. Mmmmm, I mean because 485 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: the children are listening. I mean we're listening. And I 486 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: think an HRC report indicated like seventy seven percent of 487 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: youth have heard their families say something negative about LGBTQ 488 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: people's right. So if I hear that myself included, why 489 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: would I come to them and say, hey, this is 490 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: who I am, right? And so just that rejection alone 491 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: increases the risk of like kids have sleep disturbance, so 492 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: you know what that does with development, It doesn't help it. 493 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: You know, they've depressed, They're more likely later onto like 494 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: experienced verbal abuse, physical abuse. And we've seen that most 495 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: at risk are like black trans women who get killed 496 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: right because they did not have people who were affirming 497 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: and they ended up in houseless situations under resource undersupported. 498 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, it is I know a challenge for everyone 499 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: to work with difference, but these are our kids, These 500 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 1: are our kids, and this is in many ways preventable 501 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: based on these stats that if we can just do 502 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: this work of redefining what you know, being parents and 503 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: supportive caregivers means it's transformative. Were saving lives. Yeah, and 504 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: not just you know, as parents, but I think about 505 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: like the media responsibility, you know, because even if you 506 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: don't necessarily hear your parents say things that are derogatory, 507 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: you know. I remember there was a super cute book 508 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: I forget the name now about a little boy who 509 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: was a mermaid. Do you know that book? I think 510 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: it came out recently, but I think like a teacher 511 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: tried to teach it in the classroom and there was 512 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: all this uproar, right, and you know, so you see educators, 513 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: you know, who are trying to like have these conversations 514 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: and normalize that, you know, yes, of course boys can 515 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: be mermaids or whatever, and then there's all this pushback. Right, 516 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: So even if you don't hear it in your home, 517 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: sometimes you hear about it on the news. So that's 518 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: something else to be careful of. Yeah, it's and it's everywhere. 519 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: I feel like a very different I'm glad you mentioned 520 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: the media. So there's a very different time than I 521 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: when I grew up. Like, I mean, these kids have 522 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: access and technology is going twenty four hour a day, 523 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: seven days a week. Right. At least we got a break, 524 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, we went home right, you know, but I 525 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: mean they are inundated, and I really feel that the 526 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: media needs to take more responsibility with the impact that 527 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: they have on the lives of our beings. Right. More 528 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Dr G right after the break, 529 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: Do you work a lot with younger people? Dr G? Oh, 530 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: not as much anymore, I feel like in mentorship, but 531 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: not as much in my private practice. I was gonna 532 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: ask around, you know, I feel like TikTok is one 533 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: of those spaces where younger people are, you know, sharing 534 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: their stories, you know, and really being able to kind 535 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: of find your community in a space like that. I 536 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: think it's really going to be transformative. Oh my gosh. 537 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: You know, I wonder if every generation feels like this. 538 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: But I really trust the generations that are up. I 539 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: just feel like I just need to clear the path 540 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: for them and allow them to just be because they 541 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: are creating an expansive language in a way of being 542 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: for us to exist in. And I mean that's the 543 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: beauty of the human existence, right is to be expensive 544 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: and to not be fixed were you know? So I 545 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: love I love listening to them. Yes, I'm on all 546 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: those social media's because I'm learning from them too, and 547 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: we're seeing with learning. I'm like, oh, there's another word 548 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: for this. There's another word for this. This is wonderful. 549 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: It's emergent, it's organic like that that is a humanity 550 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: to be emergent and organic. It's a nice space for right, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 551 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: I feel like some of the defensiveness kind of kicks 552 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: in for people when you see younger generations kind of 553 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: coming up with new terminologies, right, But I think it's 554 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: it's important to know that like this has happened time 555 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: and time again, Like it doesn't mean that you're being 556 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: pushed aside, but but can you make space? Right, Like 557 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: can you stand together as opposed to like trying to 558 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: shut their voices up or that make space for them 559 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: exactly exactly? And I feel like that that challenge is 560 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: at least like how I was raising when I hear 561 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: about a lot of other black families, and I'm just 562 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: speaking to black families because that is my reference point, 563 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: but I've heard this with other bipop of people's as well, 564 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: is that you know, our respect for elders, you know, 565 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: comes with a need to like almost acquiesce to their 566 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: ways of being because they're not allowing space right, and 567 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: it becomes very hierarchical and you know, you have to 568 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: wait for that person to pass for something to open. 569 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 1: It shouldn't have to be like that, um. And so 570 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: I think that is a challenge to how you know, 571 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: we viewed our our way of creating the family. You know, 572 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: we see this in the church as well, like how 573 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: we create a hierarchy of who do we listen to 574 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: and that the others are powerless or don't have space 575 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: at the table to speak. But I really feel like 576 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: when we allow space and this is a dialogue cross generations. 577 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: And that's what I really try to foster my writing 578 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: is that this is a continuous dialogue across generation like 579 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: leads to change in more space opening mm hm. So 580 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: you share a little bit of this earlier just in 581 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: terms of like how we can be more inclusive even 582 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: in very small ways, right, So things like asking people 583 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: their pronouns. Are there other tips that you can share 584 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: about how we can be more inclusive in our language 585 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: and creating spaces, yeah, you know as best as you 586 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: can one can, you know, suspending assumptions And I often 587 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: indicate that with with youth, with people around bathrooms and spaces, 588 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: just having gender neutral bathrooms. That causes a lot of 589 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,919 Speaker 1: anxiety for people calling people by their names. Oftentimes you'll 590 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: hear people name their dead name or their old names. 591 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: So just ask what their name is now, and that's 592 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: all it should matter. Don't say, hey, what was your 593 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: name before? None of that. Just leave that be. What's 594 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: now is what is yeah, And again talking to people 595 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: advocating educating yourself, it's really important, just as we have 596 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 1: talked about with regard to race, to not put the 597 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: burden on the person to educate you. You could ask 598 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: questions and also go and find out stuff for yourself, 599 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: go and through support groups like p FLAG. You know, 600 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: for parents and other people's who are allies and support 601 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 1: there's spaces for you too. So to also educate and 602 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: do that for yourself. How do you foster that same 603 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: sense of inclusion in something like paperwork? Like paperwork you 604 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: might give a client to complete before a session. I mean, 605 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: I do all things I do always leave another blank 606 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: because I do think that it represents for me the 607 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: space of what is emergent and I can't keep up 608 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: with what's as I used to be to be honest, right, 609 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: So I think that that allows me to learn like, okay, 610 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: this is what someone reaches to call themselves unicorn, sir. 611 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: I call myself doc. People think it's because I'm a doctor. 612 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that's my indigenous healing like me, you know, 613 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: like it's because he she's there. There are other pronouns 614 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: that people have come up with that are used that 615 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: doesn't fit me, so I create my own. And so 616 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: just allowing space for that on forms is awesome, you know. 617 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: I think the more progressive people are around saying male, female, 618 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: non binary or gender queer is including those terms at 619 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: best is really helpful. They is quite safe to use that. 620 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,439 Speaker 1: I feel like many people use they for those who 621 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: are identify as non binary, and if they doesn't work, 622 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: you asked and be humble to be corrected. I think 623 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: that that's the other piece that's the hardest part for 624 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: people is that they you know, everyone, you know, if 625 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: they people are really trying, they may use something and 626 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,360 Speaker 1: it may not be what fits for a person, and 627 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,240 Speaker 1: so to be humbled and say, oh, you know, I'm sorry, 628 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: what do you prefer? Is wonderful, right, you know? M Yeah, 629 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: the being open to correction I think is really important. Yeah, 630 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: And I just think that word a time when I 631 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: think this is going to be as a set of 632 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: challenge for some people is that, Yeah, we do develop forms, right, 633 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: but the forms become obsoletely, very quickly. So how can 634 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: we create space informs for things to be malleable always? 635 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: Is there room for that? And I think that's a 636 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: very different way of being. But I think that that's 637 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: the gift of especially people who flow in a non 638 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: binary identity, is they understand what it means to flow 639 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: and they understand that things change. So how can we 640 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: welcome change every day, every moment? I mean, how can 641 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: we do that in our institutions? How can we do 642 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: that identities? How can we allow more space? Yeah? Is 643 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: there anything we haven't covered atr G that you feel like, Oh, 644 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: I really want people to know more about this or 645 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: to think about this. I think the one thing, just 646 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: going back to the stigmatizing gender identity, their gender expression 647 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,919 Speaker 1: of the Black community, I really want to drive home 648 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: that I don't think that we as a black community 649 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: would fight over the fact that racism exists and racism 650 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: is a construct right that we didn't come up with, 651 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: and that that condition leads to inequities, leads to many 652 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: of us dying right and health inequities and so on. 653 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,479 Speaker 1: I don't think many people in the black community would 654 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: resist that statement, and so I just want to say 655 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: that gender is right on par with race. It's same 656 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: construct that predisposes us the same inequities if we don't 657 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: do something about it, if we don't redefine it. Thank 658 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: you for that. I appreciate you going back to that 659 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: point that is important to include m H. I name 660 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: that because I think that's the point of resistance for 661 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: parents as well, I think and caregivers, well meaning beings. 662 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: I don't want us to have like one more marginalized identity, 663 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of resistance. Then it's like, oh, 664 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: you're choosing to be gay or you're choosing to be 665 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: non binary, and that's just adding one more risk factor 666 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: for you. You know, and I've heard that before. But 667 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: realize that if you choose to reject the person because 668 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: of their identity, then you're just adding to the problem. Yes, yes, 669 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: thank you for that. So you've already given us quite 670 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: a few It sounds like incredible resources. Are there other 671 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: resources for people who maybe want to dig deeper into 672 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: this conversation or need some additional support that you would share. 673 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: Those are the starting points I think for right now. 674 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: I think the one place I've forgot is theme as well. 675 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: Black Emotional and Mental Health Collective they also work with. 676 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: They're doing a lot on gender inequities, especially like black 677 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: Mas salinity and just redefining how we look at how 678 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: we define our community and how can we be more 679 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: expenses mm hmm. So those are what I'm thinking of 680 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: right now. And I am not most up to date 681 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: with my children's books, but I also recommend children's books 682 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,280 Speaker 1: for adults. And I say this because there's a way 683 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: that children's books are simple, but simplicity is not just base. 684 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: It is extremely complex and very direct, and so I 685 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: find that those are really great portals for discussion. I've 686 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: views them as discussion points for other people to name 687 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: like okay, like how can we talk about this matter 688 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: and use this book as a reference point. M Yeah, 689 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: I can see that there would be a way to 690 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: kind of be a bit disarming in a conversation too, 691 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 1: because it's a children's book. Yes, I like that. So 692 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: where can people find you, doctor G What is your 693 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: website as well as any social media handles you'd like 694 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: to share. Yeah. Yeah. My website is www dot Claude 695 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: Glasgow dot com. When I'm on Instagram at Garuda grin 696 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: g A r U d A g r I n 697 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 1: or at liminal G and I'm on Twitter at feelers 698 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: c r G. Thank you so much for Shane, and 699 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: of course we will include those in the show notes. 700 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: And I just want to for my own information. You 701 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: mentioned the word liminal a couple of times. What is it? Liminals? 702 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: The space in between? So I am a death doulah, 703 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: I'm in a yoga nidra teacher, and so with that, 704 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: we're working with spaces of transition. You know, the time 705 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: when you between when you waken, when you fall asleep, 706 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: the time when you we finished this conversation and there's 707 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: a gap and then you move to the next thing. 708 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 1: There's something about the spaces in between that I feel 709 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: that we rush through as a people, and so I 710 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: really help people to slow down during those times, gain 711 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,280 Speaker 1: information and learn what's coming up. It's also the space 712 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: where we have the greatest opportunity for change. And so 713 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 1: even within the context of my meditation teaching, we talk 714 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 1: about a gap, and the gap is the moment between 715 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: what you notice and experience with your senses and when 716 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 1: you give it labels. Right, So in the same way 717 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: that we're talking about constructs here, there's a moment you 718 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: see something, you don't know what it is, right, there's 719 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: a gap and then you fill it in. So I'm like, 720 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: what do we do it with that in between space? 721 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: How can we be more expensive and that in between 722 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: space to be in a space of questioning, in wonder 723 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: new experience before we slap on labels and meanings. And 724 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: that's where I feel like our nation is at at 725 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: this moment as well, that we have had a disruption 726 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: and we're at the gap. Things are kind of forming 727 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: back ish, you know, and we may be slapping back 728 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: on the same systems that we were using before, just 729 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: so that we can feel it's sort of less anxiety 730 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,560 Speaker 1: and certainty. But that may not be what we need. 731 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: So can we hang out in the gap and allow 732 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: for something else to rise, be in the discomfort and 733 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,879 Speaker 1: discuss and talk. That's part of the magic of change, right, 734 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: what comes from that space. So that's what I mean 735 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,080 Speaker 1: by womenal Oh, I love that. I mean, I feel 736 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: like that is a whole another episode. Yeah, you know, 737 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: like I agree with you. As you were talking, I 738 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,879 Speaker 1: was thinking about that is where we are now as 739 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: a country, right, like this post pandemic, if you will, 740 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: that is not quite here yet, but the rush too 741 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: to kind of be normal again, right, and how capitalism 742 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: really makes it difficult for us to be in that 743 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: liminal space. And so yeah, I feel that that's a 744 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,440 Speaker 1: lot of the work that I'm doing with people right 745 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: now is you know, they want some sense of I 746 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: understand stability, but I'm being questioned like, well, what do 747 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: you want to be stable in? What have you learned 748 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: of yourself in this gap of time where capitalism was 749 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: kind of suspended and or people came together in a 750 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: way that you never thought would happen, you know, or 751 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: you got to build something that you didn't thinkate to 752 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: have time for, Like do you want to just drop that? 753 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, I I really want to stretch that space 754 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: out and would love I could talk about that for 755 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,120 Speaker 1: hours as well. Yeah, I feel like we're going to 756 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 1: have revisits. Thank you so much for sharing with us today, 757 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: Dr G. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Dr Joy, 758 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: thank you. I'm so grateful to Dr G for joining 759 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: us with this conversation to check out dots work and 760 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: the resources shared. Visit the show notes at Therapy for 761 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session two oh three, and 762 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: don't forget to text two of your girls and tell 763 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: them to check out the episode as well. Don't forgive that. 764 00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be 765 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for 766 00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want 767 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in 768 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us 769 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the 770 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: Internet design just for black women. You can join us 771 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: at community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Thank 772 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,760 Speaker 1: you all so much for joining me again this week. 773 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: I look forward to continue in this conversation with you 774 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: all real soon. Take good care,