WEBVTT - Blitzscaling a Wellness Brand w/ Janell Stephens 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:09.799 M Afro Techen, San Francisco, California. De Shantamir is a 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.320 founder and CEO at Maven, a hair extension and distribution 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:18.079 technology company that reshapes how retail products are distributed. He's 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.720 on the main stage speaking with Jeff Johnson about the 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.919 importance of us not just owning our own brands, but 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.840 also owning distribution channels. A lot of people look at 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.479 MABN as a hair extension company, right, That is not 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.800 the way that I look at the company. It's not 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.720 the way that I run the company. We're we generally 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.280 are very good. Um I think as a culture and 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:45.800 as like people in business, at creating brands. But what 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:52.879 we rarely do. We rarely own the distribution of those brands. 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:56.760 And so we create a thing, and then in order 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.160 to get that thing out in front of the world, 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.840 you gotta go to somebody who holds the keys to 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.760 distribution to get your product on a shelf in front 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:12.000 of the millions and millions of people. And the people 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.680 who own the keys to distribution really ultimately hold all 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.800 the power, and they pick and choose and and make 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:23.360 the kings and the queens. Um. I wanted to create 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:29.360 our own distribution channel that we can own and control 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.400 so that we can then control what products go into it. Right, 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.480 So us, you know, hair extensions are the product on 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:39.880 where they're like the wedge product on which we build 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.400 this network. Those beauty supply stores, they all go out 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.640 of business tomorrow if they're not selling hair. Right, that's 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.320 where all the big ticket items is, where the margin 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.840 is and everything. So on that product, we're also going 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.560 to leverage that to build our network. Right, that's the 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.960 product that our stylus can make the most money selling Immediately. 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.160 Once we build a network up and we have the 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:10.200 stylists continuously repetitively making making more money and income from 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:15.400 these products, we start adding new products. Here. I'm Will Lucas. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.000 This is black Tech, Green money. I'm gonna answer this 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:20.720 you to some of the biggest names, some of the 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.400 brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black and building 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.600 simply using tech to secure your back, this podcast is 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:35.400 for you. Janelle Stevens is the mixed master, founder and 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.400 CEO at Camille Roads. She's been at the forefront of 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:41.160 the radical ship in the billion dollar beauty industry and 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.720 it's been an iconic Trendseter within the space. Her products 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.959 are available stores nationwide including Target, Bed, Bathroom Beyond, Sally's, 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:53.400 Beauty Hopefuls, Walgreen, CBS, and more. I asked you now 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.840 how she employed technology to build her multimillion dollar business 0:02:57.000 --> 0:02:59.120 and if it would have even been possible to build 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.800 her company. So since sessfully without leaning into tech, you know, 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:08.880 I'm wondering if how would I have grown without it? 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:13.560 Because I didn't have any money when um I started 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.840 my brand. I definitely could not put up a big 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.359 billboard or do a commercial for a TV advertisement or 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:26.799 even a radio spot. So I'm not sure if it 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:32.040 would be inexistent and still be um in existence and 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.720 still be one h owned and funded by myself. Because 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.880 of course, like so many other people who start a 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:44.680 new business or brand, our funds are very limited. Um 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.840 So I know that would have been extremely difficult. I 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.080 don't know. I'm not gonna sit here and say all 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.440 Camo roles would not have been but um, I know 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.720 it would have been very difficult. So many people doing 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.960 the in the word that you've succeeded at doing, but 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.440 they don't get to where you got right, and there's 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.040 there's still so many people still in the kitchen, you know, 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:11.080 making that in that formula, and how did you grow 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.440 the brand prestore shelf to even get on the shelf 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.600 in the first place. Yeah, because I think you can 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.599 have the idea, but you have to put the drive 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.600 and the passion and it truly has to be your destiny. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.600 You know, whatever business you want to get into our 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:33.400 start that truly has to be you know, within your heart. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.880 And then besides having your passion, you have to be 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.560 able to get up and do the work and you know, 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.720 apply pressure or apply you know that one step going 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:51.520 for further, you know every day, you know consistently. Um, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.400 if you combine the two, I think you have the 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.880 formula for success. And it's just this feeling. I tell 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.160 entrepreneurs or young entrepreneurs, it's just a feeling that you get. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.080 You know, you you thrive off of Okay, I gotta 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:10.719 do this for my business. Just working for yourself and 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:15.839 making things happen for yourself. It's just this like high 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.159 that that you're on. You you cannot have these great 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.520 ideas and then keep procrastinating or putting it to the side, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.239 or I'm gonna get to it, or you know that 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.800 that it's if you're lacking. You know, if you have 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.719 that and you then you're lacking in in some sort 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:39.040 of ways. So um, I think all entrepreneurs who are 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:43.120 true entrepreneurs, they have that I'm gonna make it happen 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:49.400 attitude by anymis necessary and work doesn't necessarily feel like work. 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.279 You know, when I started coming out, I had a 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:55.159 full time job, got off of my full time job, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.479 and then um, came home and worked extra hard for 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.839 myself and it really didn't feel like work. I enjoyed 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.200 doing that. Yeah, you know, I see so many people, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.880 you know, let's say, even starting like a clothing brand, like, like, 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.720 what made you uniquely suited for this? Because you know 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:12.479 again that people people come to me and they have 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.840 a clothing brand. I'm like, well, is anybody asking you 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.320 for clothes? You know? Like are people following you because 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.480 you have great style? Like? What made you uniquely suited 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:27.560 for this business? Yeah? So um, you know this was 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:32.640 a hobby of mine turn business, and I just think, uh, spiritually, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.760 it was it's my true path. Um. I want to 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.120 have a masters and science I didn't. I had no 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.880 idea would be in the industry. My goal was to 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.480 uh do homehellth and work in the hospitals and things 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.279 like that, and which I did for a little while, 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.600 but I had this UM. I was kind of put 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.279 in this position where my kids started having issues with 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.320 their skinning and hair and be a dryness and exama 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:06.560 that UM. I took it upon myself to UM create 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:12.360 this whole holistic and natural environment for me and my family. 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.320 And I think that when you see someone that UM 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:20.040 you love uh in me, you try to do whatever 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.000 you could do to kind of solve their issues. And 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.920 that was the start for me and Camille Rose. I. 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.720 I had no idea I was gonna be selling it 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.240 to anybody. I made all these formulas and products from 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.440 myself and my family and friends started asking, and then 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.440 they started coming back for more. And as I would 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.920 use my own formulas, I would see the results, and 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.160 so I said, you know what this is. This shouldn't 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.520 be kept within my own family. I don't want to 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.040 be selfish. I gotta share this with the world. And 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:56.320 I threw up a website and started getting orders. Yeah, 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.320 we're gonna come back and talk about the website, because 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.720 I've heard you talk about this before. Before we get there, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.160 you know, there's It's something I heard you talk about 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.120 in another interview when you said you know so much, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.920 it's forgotten talent in these overlooked places, like you know, 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.040 you're from Louisiana and yeah, and I wonder like for 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.160 people listening to this who feel like they're not in 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:19.040 the right place geographically to to make their dreams real, 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.080 what do you say to that coming from the Deep South, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.000 you know, and seeing people make it from there, and 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.440 you you being one of them. Yeah, absolutely, you know 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:33.840 that is something like anybody could say, well, I'm from 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.040 Little timbuc two, so nobody's gonna recognize me or care 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.839 about me. That's so not true. And I learned that 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.640 not only through my business, but so many other businesses 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:49.720 that are UM that are successful. UM people are coming 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.040 from all over all walks of life. It's just I 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:57.880 think that when you are a consumer and when you 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.520 are in the trenches and you know what, you are 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.840 around regular people, when you're hearing what they want, what 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.880 they need, you know, I think that's an extra added 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:12.400 gift you know that you are blessed with to kind 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.600 of be like, Okay, I'm the consumer or I'm my mom. 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.760 I'm listening to my mom or here my friend, or 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.400 I see what you know this person needs and I 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.559 can make it happen, or I can solve an issue. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:30.880 I think that even if you're um, you're in this 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:34.200 small area, if you talk loud enough, stream a lot enough, 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.080 you know, put that extra effort of work in, make 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.040 some noise, somebody's gonna hear you talk. Let's talk about 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.320 this website for a second, because you you've you said 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:45.199 that I threw up a little website. But let's get 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.200 in on this. Because you talked about you were in 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.800 the path to be in healthcare, right, and so I 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.800 can you're probably not a coder, and so I wonder like, okay, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.079 what is this website that you building? Tell me what 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.719 you did. That's talk about that for I didn't do literally, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:07.679 I found a local my brother actually did. That's soloette um, 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.360 that's kind of me. I'm like, okay, turn me to 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.280 the side. I just want my brows to be a 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:19.800 little longer. So yes, my logo. And so I ended 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:25.920 up finding um um, this local graphic person to actually 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.360 turn it in his sketch into a logo. The yellow 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.600 rose um that's in my solo. It's hair it's UM. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.000 I dedicated that rose to my grandmother. She loved roses, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.720 and it's the whole story behind it too. So I 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.160 only wanted that to be UM the pop up color. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.800 But I found this local photographer, UM. All the content 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.439 that I had on my original labels, I did all 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.760 that myself. He was just in his little one room 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.200 studio trying to take images, and I found a friend 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.120 that knew how to UM. I think my first website 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.040 was maybe like three or four pages. He kind of 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:09.920 through my products up there. We introduced the brand, introduced 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.800 myself with the price, and that was literally it. That 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.360 was that was it? Yeah, And of course that it 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:22.880 was very active on like Facebook, kind of help us 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:24.760 put the word out. Yeah, let's let's go in there. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.400 Because that's where my question is because I hear you say, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.640 you know, you gotta be in on you gotta be 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.320 going at it when you if you come home from work, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.160 you gotta be working on this thing. And I hear 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.719 I can imagine so many people listening to this interview saying, well, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.600 I did I'm doing all that. I got the website, 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.760 I got a logo, you whether I got it on camble, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.880 I paid somebody on upwork, some this freelance designed to 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.920 do this thing I'm putting in the hours and it's 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:54.679 not going where yours is going. Well, mine didn't go 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.000 where I am right now on instantly like that's it 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.480 was blessed? What tears in this? You know what I'm saying. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.920 And if you keep at it, keep at it, don't 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:10.240 give up. Show up at places that you need to 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.720 be like, um, whatever your business is. If they have 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:18.360 like seminars or different functions where you can introduce your craft, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.800 please go. Um. That happened to me. I just so 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.080 happened to do like a beauty show, had all my 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.440 handmade concoctions at this beauty show and met the right person. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:34.120 A year later, I was in Target. So don't ignore 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.640 those those those kind of places. And that's there, you know, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:40.200 trying when you're trying to figure out, Okay, I have 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.560 this amount of money, where am I gonna put this 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.320 in my business? Don't forget about those shows, don't forget 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.439 about events, don't forget about things that's happening in your 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.400 area where you can pass out little um samples um 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.760 that you make in your warehouse are on your own, 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:03.880 pass them out the word out. They're like that as well, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.280 you know, just getting the street and and kinda be 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.320 your own boys. You are in the biggest big box 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.840 stores that are a Target, in Walmart and etcetera. And 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.800 when you meet those people, those buyers, what is it 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.520 that they're looking for? Like, what is it a certain 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.880 number that they're looking for in your sales and in 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.520 how do you prepare that documentation to present to them? 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:33.120 I had when I met my the buyers at UM Target, 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.120 I had just my online sales and it was not 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:40.320 that much. UM. I think with me and my brand. 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.520 When I got up there and I told my story, 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.800 they saw my passion, they saw how I was so 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:53.080 authentic um and um just the way I spoke about 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.280 uh Camillo rolls and what Camillo roles stand for. And 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.199 then of course you know they were looking for company's lifeline. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.679 But UM, I didn't have big numbers on on any 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:08.000 of my social pages at all. I just went in 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.840 there and I kind of told a story, and um, 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.120 they liked it. And UM even with with my products today, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.440 like even my consumers like they know I feel like 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.360 when they pick up a Camillo rose product, they can 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:30.480 feel how organic and um UM authentic we are to 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:36.040 our brand. I always want people to to know that 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.640 Camille Rose is the same as Camille Rose was back 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.440 in two thousand and ten. We're the same today. You know. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.680 Our message is the same. What we stand for is 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.160 the exact same. And I think people feel that in 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.360 my brand and in my um my content and my 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.120 packaging that's on the retail ship stores, on the retail 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.640 shelves and star. Yeah, when you do get that call 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.920 to hey, we're gonna put your stuff in you know, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.320 fifty stores, a hundred stores or whatever, what kind of 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.000 what kind of systems need to be in place on 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.360 your on the manufacturing side or is that something that 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.640 they step in on, like because I imagine you can't 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:21.320 fulfill those orders from your kitchen. Well, actually I did, um, 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.480 and it liked to take me completely out, Like it 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:29.640 was so frust Uh. When I got my first retailer, 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.200 which was Target, Um, they wanted to give me a 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.360 like I take that one too, your a large amount 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.440 of doors, and then it was need that kind of 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.240 step back and said no, I'll take a hundred. I 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.480 don't want a thousand, and I'll take a hundred. You know, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.520 because I knew that I was still handmaking all of 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.840 my products, and I didn't want to set myself up 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.480 for a failure. You know, first of all, what does 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.200 this mean me going in retail? And then I knew 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.720 nothing about laboratory. I didn't know how to give, nothing 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.400 about that at all, so I had to continue to 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.560 uh make mind you, I didn't have any employees either 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.440 at this At this time, UM the lady that I met, 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.960 this lady in my area and she was just like, 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.360 I'll help you out, you know, the label. So she 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.680 would apply labels and put the tops on while I'm 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.560 like literally squeezed, squeezing the product in the bottle, you know, 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:32.320 and kind of packing it up. So it became I 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.240 don't know what I was thinking. I don't know if 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:37.040 I was like, okay, targets, they just put one order 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.960 and let me fulfill this and we get but they 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.960 started coming, you know, every week, and there was that 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.640 At that point, I was like I can't, I can't 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.240 do this, Like how do I get a laboratory. So 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:55.080 started research and went to the internet and researched how 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.840 to get a laboratory. UM. I found several but they 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.880 did not want to take me on and my brand 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:07.160 because Cameo Roses, that gourmet foodie brand, and a lot 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.040 of my ingredients are like costal their food great ingredients, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.840 and they don't laboratories don't typically order those type of 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.680 raw materials, you know, they order chemicals. So I got 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.120 a lot of nose until I found this one lap 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.000 laugh that was like, I'll help you out. But even 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.520 that was a nightmare because I had to order all 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.199 of my ingredients and send it to him. I was 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:37.199 just kind of using his chains, you know. And but 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.639 over time, it was the learning process. It was difficult, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.280 it was stressful, it was I lost a lot of 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.399 sleep during that time. Um, and I just kind of 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.240 I had to figure it out on my own. You know. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.320 You said you didn't have any employees in those early 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.200 days of those first orders, and so you're so you're 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.040 in there, you know, squeezing it into the tubes. But 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.399 you also say in a different interview, you know, coming 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.359 off the shelf is a lot harder than getting on 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.080 the shelf. And so I wonder, like, how how are 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.840 you likewise growing the brand to get off the shelf 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.720 as you're running the business, Because there are so many 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.760 people who are like you at that stage who are 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.159 doing the whole thing, you know, and they're trying to 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.840 grow the brand, fulfill the product and get it shipped, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.920 you know, ordered the raw materials, Like how is all 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:29.520 of this stuff happening? So UM, I think that for 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:34.080 for newcomers, they need to utilize their platform to the 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.440 best of their ability, like get on there and talk 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.640 to your followers and let them know what you're doing, 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.720 or try to grow your followers UM tag people, contact 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:49.440 um um micro or influencers say head at this product, 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.080 you know, would you like to try it? I could 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.560 give you with this and then kind of get the 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:58.639 word out that way. UM. And then of course, you know, 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.639 once we started to build momentum and target, I was 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.680 able to bring on, you know, people, more professional people 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:12.080 to kind of you know, pass things off on. But um, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.160 what I decided to do was I wanted to grow 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.960 organically and take my time. So I told a lot 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.080 of people, a lot of retailers know, you know, for 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.280 a while before I was able to say, Okay, I'm 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.920 at that point. Now it's yes, and don't be afraid 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:32.879 to tell people know and think that this is my 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.640 only opportunity. If I say no, you know I may 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.640 not get another chance. Don't don't think of it like that, 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:45.200 because if you make a mistake and accept things that 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:51.480 you can't handle, it's very expensive to come out of 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:56.000 those retail stores. I know many great brands that came 0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:01.200 in with me that really didn't make it, and um, 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.840 you know, so just don't be afraid to grow organically 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:09.200 and as strong page. How did your your first sales happen? 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.080 Because you talked about you threw up a website and 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:16.080 people started ordering, And how did those initial sales start 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.720 to happen? You know? Were they family and friends or 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.080 people who will live in your neighbor? Now? I think 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.960 I New York. Like I started getting a ton of 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:28.280 orders from grows from New York. And what was happening was, 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.600 I think a blog or got ahold of one of 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.200 my deep conditioners and she had a good amount of followers, 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.400 so she started um reviewing my product, and from there 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.879 was like the snowball effect. But I can remember getting 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.560 phone calls and me acting like I got this whole 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.960 big old customer service team and that's just me on 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.879 another and high and I started talking to this this 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.639 girl who order, of course I had out of stocks 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.040 a lot. So I was like, oh, so, what do 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.439 you like about the product? And she was like, oh, 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.320 Camille rolls and it does that's that not that? And 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.160 now now that was me, I'm like acting like I'm 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:11.760 the customer service right, So UM, I really think it was. Um. 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.280 The word of mouth YouTube was hot back then though 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.120 it still is. But those influencers just getting on there 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.960 talking to their followers about good products and good with 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.200 good ingredients that they found. So it sounds like that 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.080 that happened for you by happenstance. Like if you were 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.640 to redo this and be intentional about finding that blogger 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.560 to write or finding that YouTube influencer to to talk 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.960 about it on their video, what would that pitch look 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.000 like for you? And let's say it's the early days 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.560 again and you're redoing this and you wanted to be 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.440 intentional now to go and get that person, what what 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:48.320 does that pitch look like for you? You know, it 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:52.200 would still be UM kind of like today like organic, 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.840 Like I like to work with people who A know 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.679 the brand, you know, and I'm familiar with the brand 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.720 and stand for the same things that I'll stand for, 0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:07.639 which is you know, ingredients matter great ingredients and not 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.399 just um looking to review a product because it's the 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.200 popular thing, or it's it's UM five none and no 0:22:17.359 --> 0:22:20.920 are chief a cheaper product. I want label readers. You know, 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:25.720 Commuo roast consumers are label readers because before I even 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:27.879 got into the business. So when I thought about getting 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:32.840 into the business, one thing that everyone, physician everyone was 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.760 telling me make sure your label reads. You know, make 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.040 sure you know what you are using one your body, 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.040 what you're putting in your body. And that goes for 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:47.040 for food as well. I went on this whole natural quest, uh, 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:49.560 from everything that we eat, to the products that we 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:53.240 use to what you know, Um, I'm cleaning my house 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:59.000 with so um label readers. They are my consumers, and 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.120 I would do it this same way if if you're 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:05.200 into a product that's holistic or natural, you know, I'm 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.639 reaching out, Hey, I like what your page looks like, 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:10.479 or I like what you're stand for. I love your curls. 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:13.679 You know, let me tell you about my products. How 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:16.480 did you figure out things like unit costs, like what 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.240 it costs you make one bottle? Because I imagine that 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.480 so many people are just making Okay, it's it's ten 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:24.280 dollars for the thing, but they don't really know what 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:28.800 it costs that one single bottle. Sure that I used 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:33.600 the same way initially, the same way, Like it's so 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.960 much like I am so self taught, UM and I 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:41.359 hope that because I think it just makes me that 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:45.240 much stronger now. Like I didn't have anybody holding my hand. 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.200 I had to figure it out on my own, and 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:52.760 it I think, man, just sitting there breaking down how 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:56.800 much you're spending for everything, and that goes from the 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:00.240 label to the ship, the shippers, the box that you 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:05.520 are shipping with, to your stamps, to your bubble wrap, 0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.399 adding all that in too, of course, your raws and 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:14.399 your components, adding all that in to your formula and 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.959 just figuring out, okay, what's my how do I make 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:21.080 a profit? You know? And how much am I paying out? 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:25.119 Adding calculating all that in. Um. I just had to 0:24:25.160 --> 0:24:28.280 sit there and do it because this is not an industry. 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.040 I mean, so I'm curious, like is it. You're getting 0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.000