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Speaker 1: Stop what you're doing right now. It's another episode of

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Speaker 1: Against the Chronicles podcast, the production of I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and the Black Effects podcast network Chip. What's happening? We

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Speaker 1: have a bonus episode from my guy Great Kating. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Phil Carson, who was the only FBI agent to ever

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Speaker 1: investigate the Biggie Smallest case, believes the hip hop star

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Speaker 1: was shot dead by hit man helped by two crooked

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Speaker 1: LAPD cops. Um. I guess apparently this guy Phil Carson,

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Speaker 1: he's making these um all. He made some allegations on

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Speaker 1: the podcast Darcier which he said would blow the lid

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Speaker 1: off the unsolved case and exposed evidence and force the

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Speaker 1: original FBI investigation to be reopened. Uh, we have Grade Kating. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's going to rebute all that. You know, I would

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Speaker 1: love to try. I love that the opportunity and trying

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Speaker 1: to respond to the you know, the claims that he's

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Speaker 1: making their tired old allegations. It all goes back to

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Speaker 1: the Russell Pool era of the Biggie Smallest murder investigation

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Speaker 1: and these ideas that these um rogue LAPD cops David

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Speaker 1: McK in particular was involved in the murder. At the

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Speaker 1: best to suge night and then the l a p

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Speaker 1: D covered it up well, and it was an interesting

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Speaker 1: theory and said theory we looked into when we investigated

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Speaker 1: this originally. But at the end of the day, it's

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Speaker 1: a theory that is just built on nothing but opinion

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Speaker 1: and speculation. But yet it gains traction when it's not challenged.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what I'm doing right now, is to

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Speaker 1: challenge Phil Carson to any type of debate that he chooses.

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Speaker 1: And I want to challenge everything that he's postulated and

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Speaker 1: said that. You know, in the general public, the audience

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Speaker 1: is hearing his side of the story. And then you're

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Speaker 1: only hearing one side of the story, then you tend

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Speaker 1: to believe that it could potentially be true. And so

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Speaker 1: I would like to challenge um those assertions that he's

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Speaker 1: making um and to deal with him directly. And if not,

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Speaker 1: then I'll do it indirectly. I'll sit here and refute

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Speaker 1: everything that he said on your show. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: and the Trump is now coming out, man best when

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Speaker 1: there fixing it? Right that the whole l a p D.

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Speaker 1: You know, this whole elaborate cover up to just go

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Speaker 1: out and murder the tours B actually, first of all,

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Speaker 1: what's the motive, What will be the motive behind a

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Speaker 1: l a p D just getting behind and go murder

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Speaker 1: a hip hop star? I don't understand it, right. So

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Speaker 1: he's going to claim that it's financially motivated, that David

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Speaker 1: mac did it because Suge Night offered him money. But

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Speaker 1: it goes way beyond the l A p. If you

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Speaker 1: follow this theory that he's that he's postulately, you're talking

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Speaker 1: about people from the FBI, people from the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Attorney's office, people from the District Arney's office, the l

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Speaker 1: A p D gangsters, all of these people, informants, everybody

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Speaker 1: collaborating together. And if you do the work and actually

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Speaker 1: figure out how big of a conspiracy this would demand,

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Speaker 1: it becomes absolutely fucking ridiculous. Like all these people aren't

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Speaker 1: gonna work together for what to risk their reputations, their

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Speaker 1: professional lives, all of this in order to cover up

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Speaker 1: a rapper. Give me a break. It's ridiculous. And you

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Speaker 1: can bet if people don't know better, if they're not

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Speaker 1: armed with the the the counter equation, then they assume it. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, big deal, you know, a big buddy guard man.

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Speaker 1: He said he got identified who he thought the suspect was,

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Speaker 1: and Carson is like, um, he's going in with that.

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Speaker 1: He's saying that this guy pretty much has already told

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Speaker 1: everybody who to kill it was and everything. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, what do you think about? Do you

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Speaker 1: think she knows who did it? Who done it? She

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Speaker 1: don't have a fucking clue at all. He was in

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Speaker 1: the car ahead, and he looked behind him the shooting

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Speaker 1: already took place. He didn't see the shooter. He didn't

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Speaker 1: have a clue who did it, but he because he

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Speaker 1: had already had some kind of little I fucking contest

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Speaker 1: with some guy in the parking lot. He assumes, well,

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Speaker 1: I got a bad vibe from this guy and he

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Speaker 1: looked at me in a certain way, and so therefore

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Speaker 1: that must have been connected to the murder, right, And

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Speaker 1: then he identifies early on shortly after the murder, he

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Speaker 1: identifies some guy from a six pack who has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with anything. It's just a filler picture in

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Speaker 1: a six pack, and Jeans says, well, that looks like

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Speaker 1: the guy. Well guess why, it looks nothing like Amir Mohammed,

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Speaker 1: who he then later claims was the shooter. So if

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Speaker 1: you're a witness, and you say, well, this is what

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Speaker 1: the guy looks like, and then later on you pick

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Speaker 1: out a picture of a guy who looks absolutely completely different.

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Speaker 1: Then what did you really see? And what do you

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Speaker 1: really know? Because there's no consistency and what you what

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Speaker 1: what you claim to have seen? M you know the

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Speaker 1: thing that the Carson guys see it? Man, he said

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Speaker 1: he saw pictures that the two alleged crooked cops at

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Speaker 1: the Peterson Museum in l A. The night it happened. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: you said, as soon as he started to saw the

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Speaker 1: case that people pretty much went up the way to

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Speaker 1: discredit him. He said that there's this big scoring alone,

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Speaker 1: but people are trying to scred What do you think

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Speaker 1: this man? Well, he deserves to be discredited because what

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Speaker 1: he's promoting his bullshit, you know, and it's not doing

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Speaker 1: any good to anybody that actually cares about the truth

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Speaker 1: of this matter. And so he claims what what I

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Speaker 1: believe he's claiming is that there were some surveillance photographs

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Speaker 1: of an individual that he says that he'd seen. Then

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Speaker 1: when we he then when he went back to meet

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Speaker 1: with the l A. P D and look at the

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Speaker 1: files that that picture is no longer there, but every

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Speaker 1: single picture from the Peterson Ottomy Museum surveillance cameras are

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Speaker 1: in the case files. I have every single one of them.

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Speaker 1: And so even if we removed him, those videotapes were

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Speaker 1: still at the Peterson otom Museum for anybody to go

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Speaker 1: in subpoena. You know, we didn't have the originals. We

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Speaker 1: had copies, and so what good does it do us

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Speaker 1: to remove a photograph that we know somebody else can

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Speaker 1: go get otherwise. The attorneys for the city of l

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Speaker 1: A they were being sued by Bigbie's mom at the time,

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Speaker 1: you know, Miss Wallace, rest of Beast. They told him

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Speaker 1: he could not testify the cases and White calls then

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Speaker 1: to lose. He heard tape recordings were A senior l

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Speaker 1: A p D official told the La Times reporter to

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Speaker 1: discredit him. He you don't know what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: and held the rail investigation. He had a beef with

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Speaker 1: Chuck Phillips, right, So that's the l A Times reporter

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Speaker 1: he's talking about because Chuck Phillips had an in at

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Speaker 1: the l A p D. And it's getting information about

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Speaker 1: what was happening in the investigation, and that that rubbed

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Speaker 1: them the wrong way. They didn't think this stuff and

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Speaker 1: it shouldn't be out there, but it was. So it

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Speaker 1: is what it is. But you know, the the uh,

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Speaker 1: the idea that this whole thing was a big, massive

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Speaker 1: cover up in conspiracy. All you have to do is

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Speaker 1: sit there and think about what it would take to

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Speaker 1: do this, and then it becomes so implausible it just

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Speaker 1: falls on his face. No, what do you think this

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Speaker 1: guy's motivation? He was because like, you know, how many

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Speaker 1: years is man? He says, all you're doing is opened

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Speaker 1: up real rehash old wounds with the family members. They

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Speaker 1: don't have to live with this stuff, and now you

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Speaker 1: bring some other stuff. But what do you think like

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Speaker 1: everybody's motivations using this? Well that's a great point. So

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Speaker 1: here's a guy that claims that there was this big

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Speaker 1: cover up, including his own agency, right because in order

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Speaker 1: for this to work, his own agency had to collaborate

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Speaker 1: with the l A p D. And he's claiming that

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Speaker 1: this was all, you know, a massive effort. Well what

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Speaker 1: does it say about him that he believes that and

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Speaker 1: then continues to work for them for fifteen years before

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Speaker 1: he tells his story. Right, So they think about that,

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Speaker 1: like what who What kind of integrity do you have

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Speaker 1: to where you believe this is a truth, But yet

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Speaker 1: you just settle into it for fifteen years before then

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Speaker 1: you come out and go, hey, by the way, fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago, I was really uncomfortable with this situation. There

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Speaker 1: was a cover up, and I'm good working for them

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Speaker 1: for the you know, for the duration. Come on, what

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Speaker 1: would you have to say to these like if you

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Speaker 1: wasn't here at mom and so you said you're willing

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Speaker 1: to debate these guys openly about this right anytime anywhere? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know Jene Deal, I know him. We

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Speaker 1: can set that up anytime. We can get Mr Carson,

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Speaker 1: He's more welcome to come on, man, we can set

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Speaker 1: up the zoom call and he bring his facts, and

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Speaker 1: I know you have the real facts, true facts. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times, man, we got a

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Speaker 1: lot of hocus focused journal doesn't go on now, man,

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Speaker 1: and people just be asking certain ship because it's gonna

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Speaker 1: get some numbers or whatever, you get some attention, no

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Speaker 1: disrespect to nobody. If you believe in what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is true, come talk to great about it. Absolutely and

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Speaker 1: nothing against the Darcier files in their podcast. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that that they don't know what to challenge them. Mind.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're not being objective deservers. They're just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's your platform, tell your story. But you know the

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Speaker 1: truth is an unchallenged life, right, and so you've got

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Speaker 1: to challenge these things. If people are interested in what happened,

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Speaker 1: then you gotta everyone has to stand and and face

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Speaker 1: each other and go, well, here's what I know, and

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Speaker 1: here's what you claim to know, and you know, work

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Speaker 1: it out. So that's what I you know, I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: to do because it's important enough to to to work

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Speaker 1: towards that. If Gene Deal was here writing that, what

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Speaker 1: would you say to him? Give me an opportunity to speak,

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Speaker 1: because what's gonna happen with Jeane is he's just going

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Speaker 1: to try to railroad you and bully you and over

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not gonna happen that You're not going

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Speaker 1: to have an actual debate, an intelligent, you know, respectful debate.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say a thing and Janes is gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: because this is his style. He's just gonna like overwhelm

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Speaker 1: you with attitude. And so I'm gonna say if there's

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Speaker 1: a debate, it has to be moderated. It has to

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Speaker 1: be done professionally, and it has to be done. It

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Speaker 1: has to be done in a way where people have

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to talk in in in nex you know,

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Speaker 1: into share the information they have to offer. And how

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Speaker 1: about if Mr Carson was sitting here right and now,

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Speaker 1: who would you say to him? I'm embarrassed for you,

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Speaker 1: That's what I would say to him. I'm embarrassed for you,

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Speaker 1: and you're an embarrassment to your agency because you should

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Speaker 1: know better. I I believe you believe what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: but you don't have the due diligence done to go

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Speaker 1: out and publicly say this. You're accusing demonstrably innocent people

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Speaker 1: of horrific crimes. And that's reckless and it's irresponsible, and

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Speaker 1: it's unfair for what what kind of This is not cool?

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Speaker 1: And you know what, I just think about this man

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Speaker 1: as keys man, A lot of people still hurt about it,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I don't think you ever

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Speaker 1: truly get over death. You just learn how to cope

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Speaker 1: with it. And you have people bringing up this stuff,

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Speaker 1: especial stuff like this, this bullshit. Pretty much every few

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems like every few months now if

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Speaker 1: somebody's com up with some new theories. Nothing it deals

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Speaker 1: what it is that It ain't no theory. Everybody kind

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Speaker 1: of knows who shot Biggie Smalls, right, everybody kind of

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Speaker 1: knows that thing. For me to say right now, but

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Speaker 1: I think everybody knows, you know what I mean, And

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Speaker 1: I think it's something that in this context anybody means

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Speaker 1: to be just kind of left them all. Everybody knows

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Speaker 1: that was in a position to know, Like, if you're

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Speaker 1: from the streets, you figured this stuff out because you

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Speaker 1: know how the gangsters work. You know how that you

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Speaker 1: know that culture works, but everybody doesn't know, and that

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Speaker 1: there's a large majority of people out there who aren't

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Speaker 1: familiar with those kind of dynamics. And so you guys

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Speaker 1: know Sharitha Night, you guys know Reggie Wright Jr. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you accept this theory, those guys are murderers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not cool because one thing about it. Reggie Wright

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Speaker 1: didn't have nothing to do with that. Regie Regg Junor

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do with that. Shrita Knight had nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with that. Everybody knows who and the other

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Speaker 1: forty people that are that are necessary for this conspiracy

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Speaker 1: to take place. And that's what the general public doesn't do,

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Speaker 1: the critical thinking to recognize how difficult this is on

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Speaker 1: that level of that level of the scale where cops

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Speaker 1: and d A s and u S. Attorneys and FBI

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Speaker 1: agents and everybody's collaborating together, and this guy's just thrown

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Speaker 1: of this whole monolithic conspiracy that the FBI. It's this

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Speaker 1: come up going on over here. It's like there's something

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Speaker 1: like osa have been luck, Like we went over and

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Speaker 1: go to Osama, been a luck. There's some ship like this.

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Speaker 1: So no, no disrespect. The Biggie Biggie's was a repper.

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Speaker 1: He was a repper. He wasn't for the national security.

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Speaker 1: He didn't have you know, it wouldn't have been the reason.

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Speaker 1: It just didn't make a lot of sense. And so

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Speaker 1: they keep coming up with these just these grands conspiracies. Man,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like laughable, you know what I mean. It is,

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Speaker 1: But it's also hurtful because now if you're on the

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Speaker 1: receiving end of those false allegations, that affects your life,

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Speaker 1: your reputation and how people look at you. Heals and

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing he used man, Rag. She cut

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Speaker 1: a lot of beef. Man, because you know those people

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Speaker 1: out there to love these they love these rappers. These

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Speaker 1: rappers are wherever immortalized in some of these people's minds. Man,

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Speaker 1: you know them, they love him a great deal, so

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Speaker 1: they send it. Rage was sending it, Regi eat mails

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Speaker 1: talking just you know, pretty much hitting them with everything

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Speaker 1: they could, but the kitchen sinking. Um, it's not cool

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Speaker 1: because Reggie's mind his own business. These dudes need to

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Speaker 1: kind of mind you know, it's not cool, especially to

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Speaker 1: acque somebody of this, you know, something like this right

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Speaker 1: here because the thing heils murder don't have a statual limitations,

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Speaker 1: so pretty much what you do when you're playing with

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Speaker 1: people's livelihoods and freedom. You know, people need to get

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Speaker 1: move on, move on from this man, because it's really

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Speaker 1: destroying a bunch of lives. At the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: it's calling it's causing further confusion for Valletta Wallace, who

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Speaker 1: is like the last any victimen all this, you know,

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Speaker 1: faith aside. You know, Valletta Wallace should have had clarity

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Speaker 1: and what happened to her son, and so much noise

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Speaker 1: got in a way, so much confusion got in a

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Speaker 1: way that led her to a place where she's never

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Speaker 1: gonna have definitive answers. She's never gonna have that peace

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Speaker 1: of mind of knowing exactly what happened. Is too much

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Speaker 1: bullshit in the way, And you know, you've got to

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Speaker 1: just you've got to be able to look at the

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Speaker 1: things for what they were instead of what you want

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Speaker 1: them to be or what your preconceived notions are about

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Speaker 1: how it went down. You've got to look at the

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Speaker 1: facts and the evidence only, and they'll let that determine

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Speaker 1: what you're you know what your conclusions are. Well, man,

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Speaker 1: you know you guys heard it. Man, Gene, you have

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Speaker 1: my phone number. Feel free to hit me man if

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Speaker 1: you want to rebuttal listen everything, Um, Mr Carson, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, you're more than welcome to come home. But

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Speaker 1: I think that what you're selling as a bunch of

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Speaker 1: bullshit and I think you need to leave it alone. Man,

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Speaker 1: all right, we sign him off. Piece A Gangster Chronicles

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Speaker 1: podcast is production of I Heart Radio and the Black

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Speaker 1: Effects Podcast Network.