1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: What's a fellow Citizens. For those who are new here, 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm Barraitune Day Thurston and this is how to Citizen 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: with Barratune Day. Welcome to season three. In honor of 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: this new season, I want to tell you about some 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: new stuff and some new ways to connect with us. 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: We got at how to Citizen on Instagram. That's right, 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: so follow us, hashtag it up and see how we're 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: expanding on the themes of this show in conversation with you. 9 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: We also have a website, how to Citizen dot com 10 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: and a new email list that you can sign up 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: for right over there. Looking forward to seeing. For this 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: first episode, I want to shake things up and take 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: you back to about the year nine, a very foundational 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: year for me. I was six years old. I wore 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: two tight T shirts and two short shorts. I loved 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: the movie or Games and Return of the Jedi. Return 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: of the Jedi. I was addicted to the A team 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: and pitied the fool that messed with be a Baracus. 19 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: D C for me was a place of joy and 20 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: community and partying all night long to the sounds of 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: Lionel Richie at our block parties. I also recall our 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: family group at this time we added a new member. 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: Wasn't a sibling, wasn't a pet. Note, my mother came 24 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: home with a computer, a personal computer. For those of 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: you who don't know, my mother was a computer programmer 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: at the advent of the personal computer revolution in the 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies and early eighties. This is a big deal 28 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: for a black woman who never got a bachelor's degree 29 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: and was raising two kids on her own, and having 30 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: a computer in the home was a rare thing at 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: the time for anybody, much less anybody in my neck 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: of the woods. I didn't know any one else in 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: my neighborhood or my school who had a computer in 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: their house. We were different. And she came with this 35 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: apple to e computer, beige and blocky to small, inexpensive, 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: simple to use, with the rounded screen and the green 37 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: blinking cursor. I think she loved it so much she 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: put it in the corner of her own room, so 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: we had to travel to her room to get to 40 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: use the computer. It sat on a small table underneath 41 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: the posters of black history heroes and inspirational quotes, next 42 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: to the file cabinet with all of our vital information. 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: But the most vital thing in that room was that computer. Oh, 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: I was so excited, and I'd love to pretend from 45 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: the distance of now that I was excited about the 46 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: potential to expand my mind and build society in a 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: beautiful human way with this computer. But no, I was 48 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: just excited to play Dr J versus Larry Bird over 49 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: and over and over again, the greatest video game ever invented, 50 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: so realistic that when you don't you broke the backboard 51 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: and shattered into a thousand little pieces, and a little 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: janitor came out sweeping up your mess because you would 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: act good. Ever since that time, technology has been a 54 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: huge part of my life. Most of my career has 55 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: been inseparable from technology, through multimedia storytelling and playful hacking 56 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: of tech systems and trying to use tech for progressive politics. So, yeah, 57 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: I love tech, but I got to admit is getting 58 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: harder and harder to love. We've gone from a time 59 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: of Apple two ease and a world of possibility to 60 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: the rapid spread of misinformation, giant tech monopolies, cyber bullies, 61 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: and AI built on racist data. I thought tech would 62 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: save the world. Now that world looks a lot more 63 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: like black mirror. And yet there's still a part of 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: me that believes we can turn it around. So this season, 65 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: as you've probably already guessed, is gonna be all about tech. 66 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: But instead of the black mirror story, we're gonna explore 67 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: the potential of technology, not the naive potential of those 68 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: early years, but it renewed, reimagined, and inclusive potential that 69 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: serves us all because I know it's still possible to 70 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: build that. This podcast is built on the very basic 71 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: belief that citizen is a verb, something to be acted on, 72 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: and if we choose to hold it correctly, tech can 73 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: be our secret citizening weapon. We will focus on the 74 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: people who are leveraging design and data and code to 75 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: help us show up for our community, strengthen our relationships, 76 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: and flex our power to benefit the collective. But before 77 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: we meet these incredible people, I want to take you 78 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: where it all started from me. And to do that, 79 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: I knew I had to speak to my sister, Belenda 80 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: Yvonne Thurston. I am best known as the older sibling 81 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: of Baritun Day Thurston. I am a native Washingtononian. I 82 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: am a journalist, a writer, a speaker, a yogi, a 83 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: tai cheap layer, a human on this planet. How would 84 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: you describe your relationship with technology? Blenda? How much time 85 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: do we have growing up together in a house full 86 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: of challenges, curiosity and imagination shaped so much of our worldview? 87 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: Be Linda's got insight not only as an oldest bling 88 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: who showed up on the planet before me, but she 89 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: dropped serious knowledge from a life lived in exploration and discovery. 90 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: My sister writes beautifully, observes closely, and it's the most 91 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: spiritually attuned person I know. But Linda is going to 92 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: take us all down memory lane. Yes, But more importantly 93 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: we talk about our mom and how her views on 94 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: tech with someday shape how I citizen after the break? 95 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: What's up? Hello, good to see you again. It is 96 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: good to see you. Well, listen to begin. Let's roll 97 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: back in time a little bit. I remember that on 98 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: Newton Street in d C. We lived a few blocks 99 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: from the elementary school Bancroft. I think it's three three 100 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: and a half blocks, And I came out of school 101 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: one day with my friends is probably third grade, maybe 102 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: fourth grade, Max, me and a bunch of old boys. 103 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: And here you come up the hill. But you're not 104 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: just like walking up the hill to pick up your 105 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: brother after school. You're riding your orange tin speed bike 106 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: with one hand and in the other hand you're carrying 107 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: my BMX bike and you're pumping up this hill. And 108 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: my friends are like, Yo, your sisters the coolest person 109 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: in the world. How do you do that? She's so strong? 110 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: What that's amazing? And I'm like, yeah, that's my sister. 111 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: What don't you mess with me. You see what she 112 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: could do with one arm, Imagine what she could do 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: with two. So that's like a defining you know, you 114 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: have my back. You're literally helping me, you know, get 115 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: around and like carrying my vehicle while you're riding yours. 116 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: A very defining moment to me. Wow, I wish I've 117 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: had that memory. I definitely have bicycle memories. Uh, and 118 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: creating adventures something that got us in trouble. Well got 119 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: me in trouble, not you in trouble, because I'm supposed 120 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: to be responsible for you and not try to kill 121 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: my brother. Um, thank you for also not killing me. 122 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: That you're welcome. You're welcome, although you have accused me 123 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: of trying to kill you. I mean I was younger then. 124 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: For the record, UM, I've looked up to you and 125 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: continue to basically every day of my life, and a 126 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: lot of my path was one like cut first, buy 127 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: you digital media infused with tech stuff like you definitely 128 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: did that first. And when I think about that past 129 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: life of yours, Blenda the digital journalist, that ended up 130 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: being a lot of what I did. Why did you 131 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: end up leaving that path and going down more of 132 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: the the yoga tai chi path instead? In some ways, 133 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: the shine and the luster was gone, and I definitely 134 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: felt out of love with the corporate end of things 135 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: and the downsizing of newsrooms, and it seemed to be 136 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: diminishing the value of the people who make the stories happen, 137 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: um leaning more toward the technology as though the technology 138 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: can actually do the storytelling. I'm sorry to disappoint anyone 139 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: who believes that AI could actually take over storytelling. That 140 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: isn't going to happen. So I just decided that I 141 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: felt that I could make a greater impact on the 142 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: earth outside of newsrooms. When I started teaching community based yoga, 143 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:44,479 Speaker 1: donation based yoga, I really got to know the heartbeat 144 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: of the community that I had not really had that 145 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: level of connection with community until I started practicing yoga 146 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: as yoga community outreach to actually try to embody living 147 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: the definition of yoga as connection. Yeah, that's uh, that's beautiful. 148 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: What year did you leave journalism formally? Formally? Two thousand twelve? Okay, 149 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: how would you describe your relationship with technology? B Linda? Uh? 150 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: How much time do I have my In some ways 151 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm completely fused. In some ways, I'm you know, try 152 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: to be as disconnected and unattached and embrace impermanence as 153 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: much as possible. So you know, I have some contradictions 154 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: in myself as a Buddhist, as a yogi and as 155 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: a person in modern day life. Okay, And how does 156 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: tech play a role in what you're doing nowadays? Live 157 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: streaming is wonderful. It allows me to remain as organically myself, 158 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: But I feel I feel grateful that that um dexterous 159 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: enough to be able to roll with the punches. At 160 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: the same time of asking someone did they breathe? Have 161 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: they twisted? And where's their mind right now? Is it 162 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: on inner piece or are they frustrated about some bug 163 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: that just bait them? Mmmm? This is uh. I remember 164 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: checking in with you earlier during COVID and you had 165 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: figured out some live streaming things that I hadn't quite 166 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: figured out. I had figured out some lighting things that 167 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: you hadn't quite We're just jamming and swapping notes, not 168 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: not missing a beat. We are definitely related because I'm 169 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: hearing you and I'm like, that sounds that sounds like 170 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: somebody else I know. Another Thursday, it felt like the 171 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: good old days. Do you have a memory that you 172 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: think really illustrates or defines our relationship? You know, I 173 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: would say for me, really is a little more current, 174 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:56,839 Speaker 1: maybe more twenty year fifteen year. Yeah, So we were 175 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: actually coming back from Montalk yeah and talk Long Island. 176 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: What were we doing in mind a little bit of 177 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: background in the bar tuny and I had gone to 178 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: mom talk with this great dramatic plan of releasing our 179 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: mother's ashes into the Atlantic Ocean um and then of 180 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: course Blenda tried to kill her brother because I mean 181 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: facts though, because we almost died. We did almost die. 182 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: So we get out there and the waves are intense, 183 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: right like we were attacked by the Atlantic Ocean. As 184 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: far as there were signs that said don't get in 185 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: the water, I don't remember that. I remember that at all. 186 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: And we ended up just fighting to stand up to 187 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: not get overwhelmed. And I gets sucked out, bashed up 188 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: against the rock that we thought of as security, and 189 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: we're soaked and we I for a long time. I 190 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: think I still have the T shirt I bought at 191 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: the gift shop out there because everything was soaked. Everything 192 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: was soaked. But then we had to just lead foot 193 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: it to get back to New York because barratune they 194 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: had a show in Times Square. So we get into 195 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: a train and just blaze to go down to Times Square, 196 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: but we had to change trains and in the changing 197 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: of trains. Now, this is definitely analog tech. In the 198 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: Thurston family is a mole skin, a mole skin journal, 199 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: and Barratuney had notes, and when he jumped from that 200 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: train to go to the platform to get ready to 201 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: jump into another train, his mole skin fell down between 202 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: the train into the tracks and it was like all stop. 203 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: It was all stop. It was a little bit of 204 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: a freak out moment because you were like, my notes, 205 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: My whole comedy career was in that notebook, and this 206 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: was really important. But you had to get there like 207 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: they needed you there early, and we were already like 208 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: messed up. We just finished having like a life and 209 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: death moment of releasing our mother's ashes that hasn't even saturated. Um. 210 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: So I'm like, I got this. I don't know how 211 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to get that thing from down onto the rails, 212 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: but I wanted you to go. I wanted you to 213 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: not think about it, don't worry about it. I've got this, 214 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: So off you go. I'm here in New York acting 215 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: like I lived there, which I don't. Was I living. 216 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: I was living in Texas at the time. I was 217 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: in Dallas at the time, far from New York, yes, 218 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: as far as we really far. So um. It's not 219 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: my proudest moment, but it was one of the few 220 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: moments in my life that I did play the damsel 221 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: in distress card and um because short of it, I 222 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: was ready to go jumping down there. But you know, 223 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: that third rail really freaks me out, So get designed 224 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: to the signs say don't jump in, right. So there 225 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: was an old fellow who was doing clean up with 226 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: a broom and a dust pan, and I just went 227 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: up and said, oh my goodness, can you help me out. 228 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: This is like life or death if we don't get 229 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: that journal down there like life is over for my 230 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: brother and I want him to succeed in life. Uh. 231 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: And this old fellow, he jumped down there and he 232 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: got it for me, handed it to me. I just 233 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: did some real quick thank you. So Noma stays and 234 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: off I went trying to figure out what train, and 235 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: I was rushing. I was pushing people. I didn't care. 236 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: It was like I was back, you know, in the 237 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: eighties and d C on the Metro. I'm running. It 238 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: felt like I'm just running with with a chalice in 239 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: my hands. Right. Um, I think you were already getting 240 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: ready behind stage, but people were just handing handbills off 241 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: and I just thought it was so cool because your 242 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: name was on the handbill and I was like, Lord, 243 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: my brother, I've got this. You gotta get it to him. No, 244 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: I can get it to him, nobody else can get 245 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: it to you. Now, Why why did that story occur 246 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: to you as a defining Uh? You know us in 247 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: our relationship, it's gonna happen. We're gonna make it happen. 248 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: There's gonna be a story behind it. And just watching 249 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: you rocket off into amazing success. Oh well, thank you 250 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: for being there for me. Carrying my bike and getting 251 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: old men to jump on the train tracks. Whatever era, 252 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: whatever city, Blinda is gonna be there. Thank you for that, 253 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: because it's I'm gonna ask you not to touch that dial. 254 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Uh. You mentioned d C in 255 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: the eighties. That's when we're from right in so many ways. 256 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: Seventies more for you, eighties more for me. Um. Let 257 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: me you know at our time zones a little more correct. 258 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: But what is it like growing up in d C. 259 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: What are the memories you come back to of that 260 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: period for us being our mother's children and being a 261 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: d C residence, being our mother's children. It's a really 262 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: interesting transition time. I actually looked over some pictures you 263 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: had scanned in some black and whites. I hadn't seen 264 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: it forever. I've got some corn rolls and I'm holding 265 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: this itty bitty football sized baritunde. And you know, from 266 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: that time in the late seventies two, when I went 267 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: to high school, and certainly by the time you went 268 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: to high school, that time changed so much from that 269 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: period of time as far as UM, how neighborhoods behaved, UM, 270 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: the quality of life in our neighborhood at that time. 271 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: You know, it was still relatively safe, albeit poor when 272 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: you were born, and then things just got exponentially a 273 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: little more precarious. How about we just use that precarious 274 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: precarious like I lived in the more precarious into that spectrum. Um. 275 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: As you know, DC in the eighties became less and 276 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: less stable. Uh, more pothole written, more drug dealing, more 277 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: police activity, and so this late seventies. You know, being 278 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: born in seventies seven, I didn't really know the neighborhood 279 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: that I was born into. I kind of I got 280 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: a taste of it, and then it was more tension. 281 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: Don't go out after this, be careful that avoid such 282 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: and such. But inside of all of that, like life 283 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: and technology and modern times were just jettisoning us, you know, 284 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: into the future. You know, I just want to like 285 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: que jets and music, right. Um. You know, I was 286 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: thinking about this a little bit. Like we barely ever 287 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: had a thirteen inch black and white television with a 288 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: little clickity clickity clicking to click you know whether you're 289 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: doing uh F vhif exactly um, and a push button 290 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: pull button to turn it on and off. Um, But 291 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: we had an Apple to e we had a comfut. 292 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: We didn't. We didn't have a Tori and Nintendo. Um no, 293 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: but you know, we had encyclopedias. We had different things 294 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: that were like nerdy and set us apart um. I 295 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: definitely didn't earn any kind of street cred in the neighborhood. 296 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: I didn't wear anything fashionable. I could have had a 297 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: lure sweater. No, I could have had some Nikes and 298 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: some Adidas when they first came out. No, right, I'm 299 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: wearing secondhand whatever whatever's but I've got a solar calculator, 300 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: I've got an apple to e. And it just really 301 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: kind of showed what was like really important Tama as 302 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: far as like what to give us the rest of 303 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: that stuff, you know, it was either irrelevant and or 304 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: immigration a word our mother has made up. It was 305 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: either irrelevant or if we really liked it, look hard 306 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: and long, and remember well, remember well, look hard. Remember well. 307 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: How many times can I remember my saying that we're 308 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: driving down there's something amazing out the window. I wish 309 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: I had a camera. We should take a picture. Look hard, 310 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: Remember well, there we go. We were a family with cameras, 311 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: with cameras. I have Ma's nikon f But so if 312 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: you look at the things that we valued and the rest, 313 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 1: like she really believed in letting us know like what 314 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: was important and taking that picture and the money that 315 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: we saved from that, you know, versus do you want 316 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: some floppy disks? You want to be able to save 317 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: this stuff? You know, this dot matrix printer needs some 318 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: ribbon um. So it was an interesting to be a 319 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: part of that transition time, you know, and at least 320 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: for me kind of cusping, right, I feel like I'm 321 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: cusp seventies and eighties. So there's this combination of lack 322 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: of resource and excess of a certain other kind of 323 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: resource being ahead of the curve on certain reasons. No 324 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: cable TV, no George Ash jeans, Novaler sweatshirts, no money 325 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: per se, and yet Apple computers, floppy disks, you know, 326 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: what's going what's going on financially in the house, and like, 327 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: how do you think about resource in this childhood that 328 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: we had, which was split. I think it's appropriating the resources, 329 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: you know, based on the real priority. And I think, 330 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, if I could dare to try to put 331 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:56,479 Speaker 1: myself into Ma's mind, information and knowledge is the gold, 332 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: you know, she wasn't gonna give us any great inheritance 333 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: and wanted us to be able to invest in ourselves 334 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: and in our own energy. With that was education, a 335 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: thirst for knowledge and to question that knowledge, always question it, 336 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: question authority. So just because it's written, you know, what 337 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: is its source, where did it come from? Where does 338 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: it belong in your memory banks? But then access to 339 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: that information because that information can be freedom, right, that 340 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: information could end up freeing someone else. And so that 341 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,239 Speaker 1: to me was her interpretation of being able to give 342 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: us a leg up. So here's this new thing, and 343 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: it's called this computer thing. You know. She brought home 344 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: just shy of a punch card mainframe right right, let 345 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: me let me pause you here. So so home from work, um, 346 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: where our mother worked for the Office of the Comptroller 347 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: of the Currency Division of the Department of the U. S. Treasury, 348 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: where she ultimately rose to be a systems analyst, a 349 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: a category of computer programming. She wrote in many early languages, 350 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: including cold ball. I still have some print outs of 351 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: her cold Ball code. And she worked on a computer 352 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: all day long, making computers do stuff exactly exactly. We 353 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: couldn't have afforded a computer, um, and I think I 354 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: referred to it with you recently. You know, I'm pretty 355 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: sure that that was her version of dumpster diving. Uh 356 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: as far as being able to retrieve one of these 357 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: early Apple models, and so that meant that the government 358 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: was already done with it, right, and nobody knew what 359 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: this computer was we had in our house. Like it 360 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: wasn't like I could go down the street and be like, hey, 361 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: I got I press your friends with this. Absolutely not right, 362 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: because it's just a big black screen and a keyboard 363 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: and a wide slot for a floppy um. You know, 364 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: you couldn't talk to it. There was no mouse, there 365 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: was none of none of this and you gotta see 366 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: prompt and that's it. And so yeah, she's got the 367 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: equivalent of coming home to her two kids and saying, here, 368 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: play with this. And and we did, you know, we 369 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: figured out ways to play really boring games that we're 370 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: just those text based games. Text based games. So a 371 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: little bit of memory lane. I was a huge fan 372 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: of the television show Night Writer with the trans am 373 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: Yes Night Industries two thousands, the very first basic program 374 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: that I ever created. I actually wrote through the producers 375 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: of that show. They sent me schematics of the car, 376 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: and I wrote a program that had four functions so 377 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: you could choose to have the trans am come to you, 378 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: and so I had it was just a short horizontal 379 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: line and it got wider and wider and wider as 380 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: it came up on the screen. I did make a 381 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: card jump and then had it say like Michael, I 382 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: don't advise that or something like that, right, so you 383 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: could do that, but there was no voice there, and 384 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: I forgot what the fourth thing was, and yeah, hands down, 385 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: like I won at at Bannaker High School computers and 386 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: I ended up subbing and being an aid for the 387 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: rest of my high school career because of writing that program. Wow, 388 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: I didn't even know you made that program on the Apple. 389 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: On the Apple in the basic programming language, that's I'm 390 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: I'm glad we're doing it, because I didn't know that 391 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: about you. And I remember Night Writer. That was like 392 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: a religion in our home to watch this show. I 393 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: remember the theme song still, it was one of the 394 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: coolest shows ever has Off davids Um. But the fact 395 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: that you brought that show to life on a computer 396 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: is a very different childhood. But you know what it 397 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: really makes me also kind of see as a bit 398 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: of fusion. But between like the information element that I'm 399 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: telling you about that that Ma felt like, Okay, what 400 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: can what can I help impart? What can I help 401 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: facilitate for for these two beings that that she, you know, 402 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: brought into this world not only our pursuit of knowledge 403 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: and understanding of the world around us, but sci fi 404 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: and sci fi was becoming real in in our lifetime 405 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: and in her lifetime right. So Mam was kind of 406 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: like a first gen Trek e um and watching tons 407 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: of original Trek. So I remember when you know, the 408 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: first Trek movie, I stood in line. I didn't get 409 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: dressed up, but I definitely stood in line, you know, 410 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: wanting to have a tricorder, always being able to have 411 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: a triple joke, all of that kind of stuff. By 412 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: the time, you know, right before she passed, I had 413 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: a razor phone. I would flip it up and just 414 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: make the clicklic sound, you know, just because it was 415 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: my own little tricorder. And to have information in the 416 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: palm of our hands. There's another bridge that I see here, 417 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: and I want to I want to talk a bit 418 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: more about Mom directly, but you've described like access to information, Uh, 419 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: for sure as a big, big part. And and the 420 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: storytelling influence. Um, there's also the creative though, And I 421 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: think what I love about your story of the Night 422 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: Writer video game is that you made something right. It 423 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: wasn't just consume, download, read, watch, listen, it was make 424 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: was put something out there, was infusing your cultural reference, 425 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: your joke, your point of view into something using tech. 426 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: And that's an age old battle, but we weren't really 427 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: early to try to find that balance. I think because 428 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: of my mother, I have some difficulties with the current 429 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 1: day usage of the term oh, such and such as 430 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: a techie, and they're really us referring to a consumer 431 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: and they're referring to the end user. And it does 432 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: sadden me as to how little a lot of these 433 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: so called techies actually know about how things work. And 434 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: I think that Ma wanted us to understand how things work. 435 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: Be the person who create. Yeah, yeah, whether it's socially, 436 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: whether it's politically or technologically, because that's that's the power. 437 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: And so knowing how things work is being as fully informed, 438 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, as we can be, understanding all ends of it, 439 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: understand the experience as the initiator, inventor creator. So to speak, 440 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: as well as what's the end user experience. I'd like 441 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: you to paint a scene for me. Your earliest memory 442 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: of ma sites smells sounds, What do you got? That 443 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: would have to be uh, growing up in the Envoy Towers, 444 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: and I think it's now referred to as the Envoy 445 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: on sixteen Street, right across the street from Meridian Hill Park. 446 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: So if anybody is familiar with d C, you'll know 447 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: exactly where this big high rises now Malcolm X Park, 448 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: Malcolm X Park, but across the street from the apartment building. 449 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: So on our side of sixteen Street was a great, 450 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: big hill and we would walk over to that hill 451 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: and picnic there. Um. So I'm about five, you know, 452 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: five or six years old, and um, she would let 453 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 1: me make dag wood peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. So 454 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Bread, peanut butter, jelly bread, peanut 455 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: butter jelly bread, peanut butter, jelly bread, peanut butter jelly. 456 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: That's where now I know, I love peanut butter jelly 457 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: f so a big stack. So of course by the 458 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: time you get across the street, it's like a mush sandwich. 459 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: But she was always like, wow, that is the biggest thing. Wow. 460 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: She would eat this thing that that I made for her, 461 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: but we would lay out a blanket. I would feed 462 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: her this ginormous, ridiculously large glop of a sandwich and 463 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: we would lay and look up at the clouds and 464 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: she would say, tell me what you see, Belinda, And 465 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: she would always be absolutely amazed at anything that I 466 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: thought that I saw, and she would encourage it. Wow, 467 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: you see an elephant all in that little spot? What's 468 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: over there? So it is definitely one of my most 469 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: treasured memories of just laying on my back, side by 470 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: side with my pointing up at the sky and her going, wow, 471 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: you see all of that? Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a 472 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: beautiful memory. That's beautiful. Did you observe any stress that 473 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: she felt or any opinion she shared about working as 474 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: a black woman in this kind of techy environment in 475 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: this government job? Any uh? Did she like being a 476 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: programmer as far as you know, your conversations with her 477 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: or what you observed and being around her. In some ways, 478 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: this conversation is helping reframe a little bit of that 479 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: memory with Ma for me, because seeing how stressed out 480 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: and angry and tired mam was every day how ignored 481 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: and exploited she felt because she was often, especially towards 482 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: the end of her career, she was training new college graduates, 483 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: usually white kids, how to do the job, and then 484 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: they would end up with a higher grade than she was. 485 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: I know that, you know, she would apply for different 486 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: promotions and not get them. I know that she had 487 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: a little bit of solidarity of felt felt like a 488 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: little bit of sisterhood and support other women of color, 489 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: but that otherwise, I know that she felt really isolated 490 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,479 Speaker 1: and alone as a single parent and as someone in 491 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: that workplace and not feeling any of that support. I 492 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: remember pulling her boots off when she got home and 493 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,239 Speaker 1: see how tired she was. I know that nowadays I 494 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: have a lot more forgiveness in my heart for understanding 495 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: like how abrasive she may have been when she got home, 496 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: because yeah, her coming home from work wasn't it roses right? 497 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: I needed to make sure I had the homework was done, 498 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: the chores were done. You know, Let's get these boots 499 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: off of this woman and get some food in her 500 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: face so that she's a little happier. You know, because 501 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: if I would imagine her being able to work in 502 00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: a positive workplace environment nowadays and be able to play 503 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: let loose her creative, playful self. I don't know what 504 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: she would have programmed and created. I know that it 505 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: would have been wondrous, it would have been magical. It 506 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: probably would have had to do something about super consciousness 507 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: or maybe something that went into our lineage and history. 508 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: And she would have taken her astrology programs to a 509 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: whole another level, you know. And I hope that work 510 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: places today are able to nurture and facilitate innovation and 511 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: playful intellect because I know that Mom was playful about math, 512 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: she was playful about science, and I didn't get that gene. 513 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: I thought that you guys, we're the ones who were 514 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: all about that gene. I was just like, uh huh, whatever, 515 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: two plus two equal before I got it. That's I mean, 516 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: it's your wish for my is in part which she 517 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: gave you at Meridian Hill Park, right, that encouragement, that playfulness, 518 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: that tell me what you see, and being excited about 519 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: your creative interpretation of that little patch of sky. I 520 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: love that so much. I too, removed her boots at 521 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: the end of the workday. That was a daily occurrence 522 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: and so you have feeling the stress, the impact of 523 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: the stress on her body. Um was something we share 524 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: across the nine years. I want to know if there 525 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: was something that you remember Mom marveling at when it 526 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: came to technology, the O and the R. Right, Yeah, 527 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: as TV's got to be more HD so different sound 528 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: technology and the theaters and feeling her reactions sitting beside 529 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: us because I'm like, it's not that real, but but 530 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: you know, it's just to see it was almost like 531 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: watching and having our own kid, you know, and and 532 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: her wonder and excitement at computers getting smaller and smaller. 533 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: You know that mac Book that she had, you know, 534 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: her last mac Book, that was her baby. Well in 535 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: power books, she was protecting that thing to the very 536 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: was her baby. In her playlists of all of her Tina, 537 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: all of her Miriam Makeba. You know, she got to 538 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: have all of what was vital to her at the 539 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: at the tip of her fingertips there. Yeah, like I said, 540 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: I think that she was she would marvel at the 541 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: future being right here at our fingertips and and all 542 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: that it could help us unleash more of today. And 543 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know whether she would like the 544 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: Facebook portal or not, or whether she would be turning 545 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: it off and being like, now you're in my house, 546 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: Now you're bugging me, and then having us look up 547 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: the stuff she didn't want on her search. If you 548 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: had to pick a word to describe our mother, Arnita 549 00:35:47,000 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: Lorraine Thurston, what would that word be becoming? Why? I 550 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: just feel like from all of the different um chapters 551 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: of her life and ah watching her grow through it 552 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and eventually letting me see lots of it, that she 553 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: was always constantly becoming, you know, dealing with whatever the 554 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: past layers were, but but always having the courage to 555 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: continue to reach toward whatever it is that she could 556 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: see for herself inside of herself and know that there 557 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: was still something more to grow in spirit and in 558 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 1: intellect and in healing um and that she wasn't done 559 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: and she was always moving into something there. There's always 560 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: another way to level up, you know. I don't know 561 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: if you remember, like when when Mom passed that I said, 562 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: I know that right then and there. I was quite 563 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: impressed and stunned that she was still parenting through her 564 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: through her death. You know, those last weeks she wanted 565 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: us to be aware of what she was aware of, 566 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: what she was experiencing, and what she still was treasuring 567 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: and enjoying. She was not ending, she was still living 568 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: and she was still becoming. Yeah, that's a good word. 569 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: It's the best word, and it's it's certainly aligns with 570 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: how I see her life and kind of makes sense 571 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 1: of the story of her life too. Um that she 572 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: was always growing and trying to learn and uh in 573 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: her ways address some of the pains of this life. 574 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: That she lived, extraordinary, ordinary life, the remarkable achievement I 575 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: will credit our mother and the legacy she left us. 576 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: Other than the thirst for knowledge and a bunch of 577 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: computers is um which they were important. There was a 578 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: important assets and important points of view and perspectives in 579 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: the world. But it was is that the self love? 580 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: You know this like she was finding. I saw her 581 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: finding a way to to love herself. And I remember 582 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: the stories of her childhood that she would share with me, 583 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: where there wasn't always a lot of love there sometimes 584 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: there was, but there was also a lot of You're 585 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: not this, You're not that, You're too this, you're too that. 586 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: And I felt like I got to see someone who 587 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: had shed a lot of those stories about herself and 588 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: adopted some new ones, and so it's very inspirational, painful, 589 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, especially in her absence, but also beautiful. The 590 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: parenting continues, you know, even like this very second, I'm like, oh, 591 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: I'm still learning from this lady. You know, she's still here. 592 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,320 Speaker 1: Getting to talk to you about her is like bringing 593 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: her back in some be a full a new way. 594 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: So so we are also becoming because of hers. Indeed, yeah, 595 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: I like to even in my own um you know work, 596 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: say that, Um, we're not only just being, but but 597 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: we are just becoming. And to never feel as though 598 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: anything has finality, because it doesn't, you know. I mean, 599 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 1: Mam always had a ring on her hand that was infinity. 600 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,879 Speaker 1: You know, she really believed in the impermanence and yet 601 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: the infinity of it all. Um. You know, I know 602 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: that if she were here today, with all of our 603 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: streaming and our ability to pop in on all kinds 604 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: of wondrous conferences and whatnot, like, she wouldn't have to 605 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: do what y'all did back in two thousand, two thousand 606 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: one crashing my Buddhism and America conference in Colorado. She 607 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: could have just like streamed into it. And um, first 608 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: of all, I remember going to that conference. I believe 609 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: we were invited. That's the story I'm telling myself. And 610 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,800 Speaker 1: it was good to see you and Colin was beautiful, 611 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: it was. But yeah, she would she would be sucking 612 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: in exactly exactly, and and she would really be enjoying 613 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: being able to pop in on something live with the 614 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: Dollar Lama, right now? What live right now with Angela Davis? 615 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: What you know? She would just be all in all 616 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: of it. And I think that she would be having 617 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: a play day every day. She would be blowing up 618 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 1: our phones. Yep. Oh, I have no doubt. She would 619 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: be constantly up in our devices, like have you heard 620 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,919 Speaker 1: about this? Check this out? What do you think this means? 621 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: Can you get that for me? You do that? You're 622 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: going to come over here, come over here, let's all go. 623 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: Do I signed us up for? We would just get 624 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:52,439 Speaker 1: confirmations from like event right like I didn't why how 625 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: did this ends up on my calendar? She would just 626 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: add stuff to the Google calendar. Thank you so much 627 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: for being my sister, and thank you for doing this conversation. 628 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate being able to create like memories 629 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: and take MA from analog into digital. You know, with 630 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: this kind of technology, being able to look your on 631 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: one coast, I'm up here in Michigan, We're able to 632 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 1: connect and share storytelling, love of information, and this technology 633 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: element right now. So keeping her alive, she gets to 634 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: still be becoming. Mm hmm. That's a perfect ending blenda. 635 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,399 Speaker 1: You're a perfect sister, number one brother, because that's how 636 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: Ma would have rolled. Our mom called each of us 637 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: the number one daughter, number one son. So there we 638 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: go from a BT to thank you. Having this ability 639 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 1: to share my mother's influence on me and my sister. 640 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: If feels like she's still here, still teaching and challenging 641 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,439 Speaker 1: and questioning right here in the room. When I think 642 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: back on these life lessons my mother passed on, I 643 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: realized she is the model of how to citizen. She 644 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: gave me these gifts of creativity and resourcefulness and innovation. 645 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: She was really into trying to build community and deepen 646 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: her connection with herself. She was into becoming more of 647 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: her and really trying to grow herself, which is a 648 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: hard and brave thing to even attempt, much less make 649 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:52,760 Speaker 1: some progress on. As we move on from my origin 650 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: story into this season, I want us to keep the 651 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,280 Speaker 1: wisdom of Mama Thurston in the back of our minds 652 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,839 Speaker 1: our guests. This season hearken back to some of her 653 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: same fundamentals and build on our mission to connect, humanize, 654 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: and reclaim our power. When we return, we're gonna get 655 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,240 Speaker 1: the crash course from the No Mercy, No Malice man 656 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: himself missed the Scott Galloway, Mark Zuckerberg, and I've said 657 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: this before is the most dangerous person in the world. 658 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: That's right. Tech and business expert Prof. G is in 659 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: the house to help me set the stage as to 660 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: how things got to where they are and what can 661 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: get us out of this mess. Thanks for listening and 662 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,919 Speaker 1: I can't wait to get started. Talk soon and keep 663 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: sitis in it. How the Citizen with barrettun Day is 664 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio podcast and Dustlight Productions. 665 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Me barretton Day, Thurston, Elizabeth Stewart, 666 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: and Misha Yusa. Our senior producer is to me Ka Adams, 667 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: Our producer is Ali Kilts, and our assistant producer is 668 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: Sam Paulson. Stephanie Cone is our editor, Valentino Rivera is 669 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: our senior engineer, and Matthew Laie as Our Apprentice. Original 670 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: music by Andrew Eathan, with additional original music for season 671 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,720 Speaker 1: three from Andrew Clawson. This episode was produced and sound 672 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: designed by Tamika Adams. Special thanks to Joel Smith from 673 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio and Rachel Garcia at Dustlight Productions.