1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast 5 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. This is the Big Take, 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: the best of Bloomberg's in depth original reporting from around 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: the globe. This is a really fast moving story that's 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: caused a lot of outrage among investors. This is so fascinating. 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: The market shotdown in a way it's never done before. 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: That's gonna have consequences for years to come. The Big 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Take on Bloomberg Radio. Well night, Paul and I love 13 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: these Big Take stories every day, but we have an 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: extra special one today because our editor in chief wrote 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: at John Micklethwaite joins us. He wrote this together with 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: Adrian wool Ridge old Ridge, which is the West must 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: save Globalization. I how they recommend checking it out on 18 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: ani Big Take on the Bloomburger Checking it out online. John, 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: great to get you on to talk a little bit 20 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: about this. One of the things that you um to 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: pose it is that there will be a decoupling here, 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: a breakup essentially of two but maybe three different blocks, 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: but that the autocratic block the Russians and the Chinese 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: are going to accelerate. Past are divided democracies. Why do 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: you think that that they all do well after this breakup? 26 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: I say, well, go back a bit. I think that 27 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: the you know that there is already a breakup happening. 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: There is a break you know, there's a straightforward the 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: coupling going on, which I suppose you can argue a 30 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: mix between China and Donald Trump started, but I think 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: is only going to be um increased by what's happening 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: in the Ukraine. Because if you are the Chinese, you 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: look and you quite rationally see what has happened to 34 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: the um Russians in terms of things like foreign reserves 35 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: and all those things, and your desire to be self sustainable, 36 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: especially if you're considering anything to do with Taiwan, increases, 37 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: and by the same token, you also see what the 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: You know, the Americans are also racked up there their 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: desired to decouples. At the moment. The decuping, I think 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: is is ongoing in that direction. I do think one 41 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: of the problems on the west is it isn't we're 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: not decoupling into here is China and here is the West. 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: Um it's at the moment there aren't enough ties between 44 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: the The EU would seem to be one sort of block, 45 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 1: and you've got some version of the U S plus 46 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: NAFTA on the other. So it's the western side of 47 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: this equation is not well put together. And that's part 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: of the piece is to say, look, this thing is 49 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: happening gear strategically. The world is now decuping or sitting 50 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: up into these dogs, and business people are thinking about 51 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: the world in that way. I'm intrigued by how many 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: people I've got emails from this morning thing that's exactly 53 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: what we're thinking about, and that our point about this 54 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: piece is ready to say to Joe Biden, look, this 55 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: is your opportunity. You can go to the American people 56 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: now and say we have got to cement our relationships 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: with the other democracies around the world, and the best 58 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: and the best way to do that is through trade deals. 59 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: I watched Gina Romando going around Asia last year, and 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: you know it was it was so sad she was 61 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: out there trying to say, we're all democracies, let stick together, 62 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: let's have a framework, um, And the Asians just looked 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: at her and stuff. Really what we want is a 64 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: trade deal, and that's what America was. America wasn't the 65 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: leader those So that's slightly long winded. So John, you 66 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: know when President Trump and his administration did the America 67 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: First strategy that marked seemingly the ender a pause in 68 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: what had been seventy years of globalization post war. Where 69 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: was that just an aberration those four years? Because as 70 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: I look at Brussels today, just for example, I see 71 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: a fairly united West. I see a fairly united NATO. 72 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm actually optimistic. Or has Trump? Was the election of 73 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: Trump crossing the rubicon? I mean, is that something that 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: Europe can never really forgive us for No? I think, well, 75 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: you know, but we we also it wasn't two thousand 76 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: and sixteen. I mean I think two sixteen was one 77 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: of several dates, Um, that you can say that globalization 78 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: went into reverse two thousand and sixteen. Remember you you 79 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: didn't just have Trump, you also had the British leaving, 80 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: who in general have been the most free trading nation 81 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: in history. Type things you had them leaving the biggest 82 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: free trade pack in the world, which the U. So 83 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: you also had that. I think you could argue in 84 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: two thousands, arguing against pall in In back when Lehman 85 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: Brothers happened, you had a slight meltdown at global capitalism. 86 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: Before that, you had been laden in two thousand and 87 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: one using the you know, the very symbols of globalization 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: jet plane to attack the World Trade Center, and more 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: so we've had COVID. So the way I look at 90 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: it is, I think there is a real difference, and 91 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: we have this in the piece. You know, we use 92 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: the famous example that Domaino Canes have. The Londoner back 93 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: in Super nine. He's sitting there very very similar to 94 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: Matt Miller on an average day of life in Germany 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: or or need a Swiss gentleman, we know, sitting there, 96 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: lying in bed, ordering the goods of the whole world 97 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: from his expansive mansions somewhere Frankfurt, and he is ordering 98 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 1: every single bit. He's expecting things to show up. He 99 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: can travel anywhere he likes, this Londoner back in nineteen. 100 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't need a passport, doesn't need capital controls. You 101 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: can use gold, sovereigns everywhere. This is a global world 102 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: for him and and things thanks for things like the telephone. 103 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: New technology is making it ever ever smaller, and he 104 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: fails to notice at the bottom of his paper these 105 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: small headlines about Sara jov I think the difference between 106 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: that person new Canes was really trying to say, Look, 107 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: that was the world we lost and us is that 108 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: I think. I think we've been warned fairly continually in 109 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: the past twenty years that globalization is in trouble, free 110 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: trade is in trouble. We have been laden. We had Trump, 111 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: we had UM that breaks it, we had financial crash, 112 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: we've had COVID in many ways. You know, Ukraine is 113 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: one of those moments where people suddenly take all those 114 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: things and think this is this is a big new thing. 115 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: But by the way, I got a listener writing in 116 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: saying continental Europe has the goal to judge the US. 117 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: They have single handedly made the Russian situation worse um, 118 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: which is a big statement. On the other hand, John, 119 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: I was there when you interviewed angela miracle, so you've 120 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: talked to her at least once. What do you think 121 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 1: her role? You know, I think I think she she looks, 122 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: she looks less good and she did. Um. It's quite interesting. 123 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: That's an old soor of a political stor about all 124 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: political careers and in failure, and Ang Michael seemed to 125 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: be the great exception to that. The fact that this 126 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: crisis has come so soon after she's left, I think 127 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: that there are things that that she did that look 128 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: much more questionable. The whole sort of policy, which I 129 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: think you're the listener who was complaining was pointing out, 130 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: was that Europe was sort of doing a bit of both, 131 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: kind of flirting with Ukraine whilst not actually doing anything 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: really solid to help it, and then building dream too, 133 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: and then the other gigantic built lauch Um two. And 134 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: then she also turned off the nuclear power and so 135 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: Germany is now completely health hostage to that. So I 136 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: think she would she I think a great woman, though 137 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: she was, she looked slightly less great now than she 138 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: did then. I wonder what you think John about the 139 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: sanctions on the one hand, seemed to be pushing Beijing 140 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: even closer to Moscow and not very not very helpful 141 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: to the dollar um. As we see, the Saudis asked 142 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: the Chinese that they can say on them oil and 143 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: un But on the other hand, we're just destroying the 144 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: sanctity of private property. Right if you're rich and you 145 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: happen to be from Russia, we're going to take away 146 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: all your stuff and there's no due processes that. Yeah, 147 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: I do that. What two things on that one? I 148 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: think the on the firstly, on the on the Chinese stuff, 149 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: I think that China is China seemed to be sort 150 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: of pretty okay with what Putin was doing. As the 151 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: full kind of blood and horror of it is coming through, 152 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: they seem to be reversing a bit. But I do 153 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: think whatever happens in the short term, whatever she decides 154 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: to do about Putin, I think that's still a little 155 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: bit of an open question. I think there's no doubt 156 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: that she and the kind of wolf pack around him 157 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: are going to say, look, this is whether we like 158 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: it or not, the economy is splitting two different blocks. 159 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: If we want to protect live out, we want to 160 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: we want to grab our bit and stay self sufficient. 161 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: Whin in that bit, I think that's part one. I 162 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: think in terms of the oligarchs and what we're doing 163 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: very property, I am a little bit nervous about that. 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: I'll be honest against that it is this is a Russia. 165 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: Is that it's not the same as this possessing American billionaires. 166 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: At different times all of us have been very annoyed 167 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: with This is a much more hand in glove relationship 168 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: with government. Most of these people are rich because they 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: have been given natural resources by the government, and the 170 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: level of interaction between these people and the Kremlin is 171 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: much much higher. That's Part one and part two. Whatever 172 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: the many things UM that we that we accuse American 173 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: billionaires of, you don't accuse them of going in the 174 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: factories and shooting people, which restrict me from pointing out 175 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: which particular ones fit in that category. But there are 176 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's a number of these oligogus, not by 177 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: any measure of pleasant people. John, What is the role 178 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: of the UK going forward? You believe? I think the 179 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: UK is in a UM. I think in terms of 180 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: the Russia, they have they have tried to catch up. 181 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: London Is style is definitely no longer as easy it 182 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: used to be. Even Chelsea has past the football club 183 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: has passed across UM. I think more generally for the UK, 184 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 1: this I think begins to make a bit of a 185 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: sort of mockery out of Brexit, and I'm not I'm 186 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: one of those people who's trying to move on from Brexit. 187 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: But if this does push forward the idea of trade 188 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: blocks developing different zones, well, Britain is rather kind of 189 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: stuck in the middle. Um. You know we we so 190 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: far Britain's attempts to try and get a trade deal 191 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: with America have almost completely availed. Um. And there's still 192 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: the rather strange argument, strange policy of paying more attention 193 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: to arguing with the French about fishery rights brackets revenue 194 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: of I think it's million dollars a year, seven hundre 195 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: million pounds. Yeah. Um, it's spending more time on that 196 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: than the City of London brackets a hundred and sixty 197 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: eight billion dollars a year. Um. It's coming home to 198 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: roost that there is no the Bridige have not endeared 199 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: themselves to the Europeans. Um. And it was noticeable. I 200 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: was in Paris the week before last and even there 201 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: talking to French officials, you know that I wondered whether 202 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: the general coming together of the West of the Ukraine 203 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: has extended to that particular relationship, and the answer was 204 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: the Gray Firm. No, it does seem the music will 205 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: stop and the UK doesn't necessarily have a chair right now. 206 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: I wonder, you know, after reading your piece, I was 207 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: thinking about a great um piece of reporting that be 208 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: ended a couple of days ago. I can't remember who 209 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: else wrote, but Amory Hordon was one of the writers 210 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: of the of the piece on the Biden administration reaching 211 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: out again to Mohammed bin Salman. And this is like 212 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: such an important issue because the whole world reserve currency 213 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: status is so anchored in oil, you know, barrels priced 214 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: in dollars and um. They've been such an important foothold 215 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: for the US in the Middle East. The saudis UH, 216 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: but we're not happy with them right now because of UH, 217 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: the you know, dismantling of Jamaica, Shogi and UM dismembering, 218 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: I should say, and their actions in Yemen. The question 219 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: is what do we do. Do they end up with 220 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: the Autocrat block, do they end up with us where 221 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: I guess they still are, but that relationship is tenuous. 222 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: What happens to the saudis my guess, as they end 223 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: up with us. But I think you have put your 224 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: finger on the problems at the moment um that they 225 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: you know that there is very obviously it's the monarchy, 226 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: their elements of autocracy there but one and secondly they 227 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: have on the issue of natural resources, they often get 228 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: pushed back towards the with the Russians, or it has 229 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: to be said, a lot of recent Opeic history has 230 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: been arguments between the Saudis and the Russians, so it's 231 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: not an easy relationship. I mean, I do, yes, I 232 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: do think they are one of those those powers out 233 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: there and it does cause I think, um problems for Saudis. 234 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: It gives them a short term bonus. The price spoilers 235 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: rocketed up, and that's given them a chance. But it 236 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: has also I think greatly accentuated the desire of other 237 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: places around the world to wean themselves off oil and 238 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: gas or oil particularly um and that you can see 239 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: that already America has a much freer hand than than 240 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: other parts of the world because America doesn't have to 241 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: rely on oil from other places. So that is all, 242 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's been a useful and very kind 243 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: of UM and I think other people will follow that. 244 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: If you compare whether United States is because of what's 245 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: happened in Ukraine and where Germany is for all the 246 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: reasons you just pointed out, America has much greater freedom 247 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: to act. I think America relies on one percent Russian oil. 248 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: Germany relies on an enormous amount of Russian gas. As 249 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: just point out, it's not just the Germans, places like 250 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: Poland which historically and think rather much more aggressive attitude 251 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: recent history, much more aggressive attitude to the Russians and 252 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: the Germans have done. They are even more dependent on 253 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: the on Russian gas. All right, John, that is great stuff. 254 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for taking the time. John Michael Waite, 255 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: editor in chief of Bloomberg News, joining us with this 256 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: Big Take story today along with the Adrian Woodridge. You 257 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: can find that at Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take 258 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: in the NI space Big Take go. All right, let's 259 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: check in with Loreen Gilbert loren Is, founder and CEO 260 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: of wealth Wise Financial Services, joining us from Sunny California. 261 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: I believe Loreen, what are you telling your clients here 262 00:14:54,440 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: who may be concerned about rising interest rates, inflation, geo politics? 263 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: What do you tell them these days? Good morning? Well, 264 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: I say, I certainly understand everybody's feeling pain at the pump. 265 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: Everybody feels the pain at the grocery store, and so 266 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: the consumer is starting to feel it, and that means 267 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: investors are feeling it as well. So it's a it's 268 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: a time when there's so much uncertainty that being a 269 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: little bit risk off and much more defensive makes sense. 270 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean putting everything in cash, but it certainly 271 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: means pulling in maybe a little bit of cash and 272 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: leaning towards the more conservative areas of the market. So 273 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: do investors get uh, do they lean towards preserving capital 274 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: here rather than looking for returns? I think what we're 275 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: talking to our clients about is looking for areas of 276 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: the market that are value oriented that you know, no 277 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: matter what happens. You know, certainly with inflation still being 278 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: an issue and rising rates being an issue, um, you 279 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: don't want an overweight and fixed income where you know 280 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: you're not going to keep up with inflation. And of 281 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: course we see the ag is quite negative year today. 282 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: So we still like stocks like equities in the portfolios, 283 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: but like I said, leaning more conservatively towards the value 284 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: tilt is what I would say, dividend paying stocks that 285 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: can keep investors comfortable that they are receiving those dividends. Loreen. 286 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: A lot of folks these days are saying it is 287 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: a stock pickers market. What does that mean to you? Yeah, 288 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: so you know, the markets go in swings from passive 289 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: investing to active investing, and we've been saying for a 290 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: while that it's going to be a stock pickers market, 291 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: which we've seen that certainly year today where active managers 292 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: have outperformed the SMP five D to the highest that 293 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: it's been since to the INN eight as far as 294 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: out performance, and we expect that to continue. Um. So 295 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, that's where we can help investors looking for 296 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: those opportunities and seeing the areas that we do see 297 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity. He's, like I said, in the value part 298 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: um more so than the growth part of the market. 299 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: A lot of people have been saying, I've been using 300 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: the acronym tina to describe stocks. There's no alternative. And 301 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: I keep looking back at this chart on the Bloomberg 302 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: at six Paul, if you want to check it out, 303 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: g hashtag b TV six five zero six, and it 304 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: shows fixed income performance globally over this quarter. It's been 305 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: horrendous and the Bloomberg Treasuries index has been the worst 306 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: perform had the worst performing quarter of my lifetime. And 307 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: I'm not young, and it's made it difficult for investors 308 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: who are in you know, let's say a moderate portfolio 309 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: equities fixing exactly what I wanted to ask you about, 310 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: especially people who are retiring are getting close, you know, 311 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: I mean, how hard has it been and what do 312 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: they do now? It's been very difficult, and so we're 313 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: investors were talking a lot about, uh, looking at areas 314 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: in the market, like I said, value stocks that to 315 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: pay dividends, and then municiple bonds, which has not also 316 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: not been stellar year to day. However, we know that 317 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 1: those cubone payments are coming and um, you know, when 318 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: it comes to being conservative, first their treasuries and there's muties. 319 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: So municipal bonds and value stocks right now are still 320 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: areas that we like quite a bit. Your clients call 321 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: you up, Lorine and see and say I need an 322 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: exposure to crypto? Does that happen? Is that happening to you? 323 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: We certainly get asked the question quite a bit. And 324 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I'll tell you right now, with the with the Federal Reserve, 325 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: we with treasury, with our with the United States of 326 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: America looking at digital currency. I think that the weight 327 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: and see is absolutely important because it could be a 328 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: zero sum game where digital currencies are established by central 329 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: banks all over the world China, United States and others. 330 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: And I think that that is going to become a standard. Uh. 331 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: And so I would say to investors to to look 332 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: to the central banks because I don't see central banks 333 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: allowing truly other currencies that are in the private sector. 334 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: All right, thanks so much for joining us. Lauren, great 335 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: to get some time with you, and I really appreciate 336 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: your insight. Laurien Gilbert there, founder and CEO of wealth 337 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: Wise Financial Services, talking to us out of Laguna Beach, California. 338 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: R E s G Environmental social governance. It is a 339 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: big factor, a growing factor in investors minds these days. 340 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: One of the challenges is incorporating E s G analysis 341 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 1: into your securities analysis. Is the data ain't that great? 342 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: And we bring in West Bricker, vice chair US Trust 343 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: Solutions co leader at p WC. West. Thanks so much 344 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: for joining us here again. You know when people do 345 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: their financial analysis and they go to the f A 346 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: page on the Bloomberg terminal, there's lots of income statement, 347 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: balance sheets, cash flow statements and stuff like that. And 348 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: we do have an e s G tab there where 349 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg brings together a lot of E s G data 350 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: for uh our users. But a lot of folks are saying, 351 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: just generally speaking, there's not enough good data to do 352 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: E s G analysis. What's going on there? Well, thank 353 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: you very much for the opportunity to be with you, 354 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: Matt and faulse Um. Here's here's what we see. The 355 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: SEC has focused on um what's happening in the marketplace 356 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: and eight and investors are asking for more information, more 357 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: segmentation of important information about the risks I call them 358 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: pre financial risks. Whether it's carbon, whether it's how my 359 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: workforce is coming together and innovating and collaborating. Maybe that's 360 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: how I'm providing access to customers or potential customers into 361 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: my platform. All of that comes together ahead of the 362 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: financial effects. And so as you look at the financial content, 363 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: the SEC just recently this week looked at the element 364 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: of carbon and the climate and proposed new rules which 365 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: require more information in the financial statements in the footnotes 366 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: about the effect of climate on the financials so that 367 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: investors can find more relevant information in order to conduct 368 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: their analysis. Kind of isn't this kind of a moving target? Um? 369 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: In a sense where because you know, last year in 370 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: front of Congress, all the Wall Street UM CEOs were 371 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: land bastard for lending money to oil producers, as if 372 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: you know, they were just unbelievable sinners, just this close 373 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: to breaking the law by supporting oil producers. And now 374 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: um as the price of crude goes to one forty, 375 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: everybody's like, why aren't they producing more? Uh? Even the 376 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: Biden administration is like, damn it, we gave them nine 377 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: thousand leases. They need to use them. So, you know, 378 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's like their national duty to 379 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: be pulling more oil out of the ground. How does 380 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: that jibe with an E s G world that is 381 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: at all you know static? Sure, it's a great question. 382 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: It's clear we need energy. Any any developed economy needs energy, 383 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: needs a diversified set of energy sources. What this proposal 384 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: is out is how do you really assess the impact 385 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: of something like climate which is also changing? Um, what's 386 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: the impact on the financials and and so the way 387 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: they the information is proposed to be presented here is 388 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: it takes something like a climate risk and then model 389 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: it through the business that you're in, the prospects that 390 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: you have, the performance over time, and the milestones. What 391 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: would be the financial impact on a growth basis before 392 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: you start offsetting or or figuring in the management actions 393 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: that that might be relevant. Maybe maybe you'll buy carbon oufsets, 394 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you'll change a business process, maybe you'll alter a 395 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: product mix. All of that analysis today it is provided 396 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: in bits and pieces, some of it sitting on corporate 397 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: websites in a sustainability report, maybe some of it in 398 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: an investor survey on a biolateral basis between a company 399 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: and their capital providers, with the SEC is saying, well, 400 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: let's set a mandatory bar for all companies that enables 401 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: the marketplace to see more consistent, comparable, and decision useful 402 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: information to help investors really understand where companies are and 403 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: the nature of risks that impact performance over time. What 404 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: do you think of the pushback that there is out 405 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: there that some folks are saying that the SEC is 406 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: overreaching here they're trying to dictate climate policy. Um, what 407 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: about that kind of pushback? What's your sense there's, uh, 408 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: there's there's really a robust dialogue about a couple of 409 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: big concepts of the economy, social policy that's traditionally Congress, right, 410 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: That's that's an important place for Congress. The S you 411 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: see is focused on disclosure policy of consistent with his mission, 412 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: which is getting good information into the markets to protect investors, 413 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: so the investors understand the nature of their investment, the risks, 414 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: the opportunities of it. UH, companies get the capital that 415 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: they need in order to operate, grow, compete, and in 416 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: the middle we have fair inefficient markets. So of course 417 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: there's there is a continuum between the point where UH 418 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: economic policy social policy hands off into business and and 419 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: the way they source capital and convey information through disclosures. 420 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: I'd expect that debate to continue. But but I guess 421 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: what what I would say is, UH, the the SEC, 422 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: I think has has very rightly been focused on the 423 00:25:54,480 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: voluntary reporting of climate information. They've been focus on concerns 424 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: about greenwashing, so a lack of confidence in that information. UH. 425 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: They've they've put a proposal on the table that that 426 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: business industry groups should rightly read, consider and provide input 427 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: where at the final stage, and I think it, I 428 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: think the SEC got it well, important to do that, 429 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: all right? What's good stuff there? West Bricker, vice chair 430 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: US Trust Solutions co leader at p WC talking about 431 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: e s G, the need for more data, the need 432 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: for better data again the f a function on the 433 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: Bloomber terminal. How's your E s G? All right, let's 434 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: talk to Barry Ridholtz. He's a founder of rid Hults 435 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: Wealth Management, Bloomberg opinion columnists and host of Masters in Business. Here, Barry, 436 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: we've had it, you know, continued wild several days here, 437 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: several weeks. We've got a hot war in Europe, We've 438 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: got the rising interest rates, we've got inflation. Where do 439 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: we begin? What do you do? How do you look 440 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: for context? How do you put this all together? So 441 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: you always have to have a plan. You know, you're 442 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: the old joke, is you you those who failed to plan, 443 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: plan to fail? And it really is true. If you're 444 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,199 Speaker 1: relying on your gut instinct, if you're sort of taking 445 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: it headline by headline, that's a recipe for disaster. So 446 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, somebody who says my plan is that at 447 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: the end of two I'm pulling this money out of 448 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: the market and buying a house or paying for kids college. Hey, 449 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: those folks should really have been throttling back there um 450 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: risk exposure. But for the average investor who's got a 451 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: timeline that's not measured in months but is years off 452 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: in the future or even decades off in the future, 453 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: you know, what happens in two isn't relevant to to 454 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: when they're gonna need the money. So have a plan, 455 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: stick with it and and stay long term. Uh, don't 456 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: get distracted by the barrage of news each day. You 457 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: know the Mike Tyson quote. I think it's Mike Tyson. 458 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: Sure everybody has a plan until they get punched in 459 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: the mouth. Yeah, no, that's can I tell you that's 460 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: absolutely true. And and it's funny because you know the 461 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: other day I was talking to Tom Keane and and 462 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: we and and uh, Lisa brom Winson and Kaylee and 463 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: the conversation was, well, why shouldn't you know you follow 464 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: Muhammed Alarian's advice and go risk off and and move 465 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: out and and the answer is, it's an easy decision 466 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: to hit the cell button, but when do you buy? 467 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: How do you disert time when to buy? And I 468 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: made the argument that it's really really challenging to get 469 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: back in and I got an email from an advisor 470 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: who said, I worked with a lot of clients. I'm 471 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: sympatica with your view. I only wish there was some 472 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: data to back it up. So I went out and 473 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: did some research. There was a re since study. I 474 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: love this title quote, when do investors freak out? Machine 475 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: learning predictions of panic selling? And to me, the most 476 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: shocking data point in the study is that investors who 477 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: panic sell thirty one percent of them never reinvest in 478 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: risky assets. They panic out of equities and they're scared 479 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: from that. And that is very similar to what we 480 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: saw following oh eight or nine, people panicked out of 481 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the market in the bottom and failed to get back 482 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: in in any reasonable period of time. Barry, Masters in Business, 483 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: you're widely successful podcasts. It our most popular podcast, by 484 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: the way. I'll go there. I believe so, but you 485 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: know there are other folks who have podcasts more frequently, 486 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: and so they might see different numbers. I think it's 487 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: the most popular long term and the most popular on 488 00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: a weekly basis. But Masters in Business of course and 489 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: Tracy have Odd Lots which is also very popular, and 490 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: Joel Weber has trillions. Yeah, who do you got this week? 491 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: So this week is Samara Cohen. She is black Rocks 492 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: Chief Investment Officer for e t f s and index investments. 493 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: And of the ten trillion and I have to repeat 494 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: that that's trillion with a t of the ten trillion 495 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: that black Rock manages, she's responsible for about a third 496 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: of it. Uh. I think she is in finance the 497 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: woman woman with the most amount of assets under management. 498 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone is even close. Uh. It might 499 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: be the CEO of UM, Edward Jones, which is about 500 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: a trillion dollars and that's a woman. So so she 501 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: all ETFs, all index funds are under her per view 502 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: with black Rock, that's a lot of how do you 503 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: get these people? Barry, you always every week have some 504 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: really big names. Well, you know for so Rhodes and 505 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: eight years in it's become a lot easier. The beginning 506 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: it was my friends and Rollo Decks. But at a 507 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: certain point, you know, the the I give a lot 508 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,239 Speaker 1: of credit to Bloomberg Radio and the whole platform we have. 509 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: It's not just on Spotify and iTunes, it goes out 510 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: over Bloomberg Radio, Act, some satellite, all of the affiliates 511 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg, so it gets in addition to the downloads, 512 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: it gets a massive audience, you know, on a m 513 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 1: or from radio with the group and and very often, 514 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, the one thing I hear from the guests 515 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: more than anything else is we really enjoy the opportunity 516 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: to have an in depth conversation, not four minutes and 517 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: then a commercial. A lot of these things are complicated 518 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: and nuanced. They don't lend themselves to to the shorter format. 519 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: Well we listen, yep, good stuff. All right, Batty Hults, 520 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. That's your four minutes 521 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: and now we'll go to a spot. Batty Hults, founder 522 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: Rod Hult's Wealth Management, Bloomberg Opinion columns and again host 523 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: of Master's in Bisy this podcast. I recommend you check 524 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: that out. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. 525 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts 526 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm 527 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three on Fall Sweeney, I'm 528 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can 529 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio