Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt,
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing striving for work life balance. Yeah, Joel,
Speaker 1: the percentage of professional, college educated workers working over fifty
Speaker 1: hours a week and that has dramatically increased over the
Speaker 1: past few decades. And I think this is something our
Speaker 1: listeners can resonate with as well. I'm sure there have
Speaker 1: been times in everyone's life where you you feel like
Speaker 1: you're just working way too much, and so I think
Speaker 1: it's great that we're gonna discuss some of the things
Speaker 1: that can lead to over working in that imbalance in
Speaker 1: our work life balance, as well as things that we
Speaker 1: can do to fix that as well. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a great conversation. I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. But Matt, before we get to that,
Speaker 1: you just got a new bike for your little five
Speaker 1: year old and it looks pretty sweet. Tell me more
Speaker 1: about it. It It is very sweet, man. Yeah, Well, so Clover,
Speaker 1: she has been really into biking, Like she rides like
Speaker 1: we have a little balance bike that we only keep
Speaker 1: inside the house. It's like this, it stays clean, it's
Speaker 1: really light weight, and we're like, no, you can't take
Speaker 1: that bike outside, but she rides it all the time
Speaker 1: inside and need somewhere outside. She also loves riding on
Speaker 1: the balance bike, and so you know, we thought for
Speaker 1: her birthday, she like, she's a perfect candidate for you know,
Speaker 1: stepping it up to the next level, skipping the training
Speaker 1: wheels and going with this fancy bike that I came
Speaker 1: across a few years ago. It's it's by this company
Speaker 1: called Womb. Well, I will say to the whole reason
Speaker 1: behind balanced bikes, the purposes to skip training wheels all together. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of arguments out there that say that,
Speaker 1: I mean, the balance is the hardest part, so it
Speaker 1: can be a lot easier for folks to skip training
Speaker 1: wheels all together and goes straight to like a big
Speaker 1: kid bike. Like I mentioned though, So womb is this
Speaker 1: company that came across a few years ago, and they
Speaker 1: make bikes specifically for like little kids. The center of
Speaker 1: gravity is really low to the ground and the little cranks,
Speaker 1: you know, like they got their little feet pedaling. They're
Speaker 1: also really short so that the you know, their feet
Speaker 1: are always close to the ground in case they need
Speaker 1: to kind of set their feet down for like a
Speaker 1: quick stop they've just thought through all these different design
Speaker 1: decisions with like a little kid writer in mind. But
Speaker 1: here's the thing, man, these bikes are not cheap. Like
Speaker 1: this is not a frugal or cheap segment. This is
Speaker 1: more like a splurge segment of our show, because like,
Speaker 1: these bikes can cost a few hundred bucks for the
Speaker 1: little ones, like for the littlest ones, and I will
Speaker 1: say I was a little bit more frugal this particular company.
Speaker 1: They have a a nice eBay store where they do
Speaker 1: sell some used ones, they don't have a ton of them,
Speaker 1: and so that's where we actually purchased hours for Clover.
Speaker 1: But I think it's good for us to to talk
Speaker 1: about this because we talk about biking a lot, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's something that you and I that we both value.
Speaker 1: It's something that I want to see, you know, as
Speaker 1: part of my family culture. And yes, these little bikes
Speaker 1: are pretty expensive. But what I'm specifically looking for is
Speaker 1: is for you know, my kids to have a great
Speaker 1: experience as they learn how to ride bikes. So that
Speaker 1: is something that they can take to a little more easily,
Speaker 1: right than if they were to you know, pick up
Speaker 1: that secondhand uffe which we have picked up literally on
Speaker 1: the side of the road. Like, I've got three or
Speaker 1: four bikes in our cross base in our basement because folks,
Speaker 1: I mean, they toss them out and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a great, perfectly fine bike, but in fact
Speaker 1: they're crazy heavy. You know that these wound bikes are
Speaker 1: really lightweight. They're not designed for new riders in mind,
Speaker 1: like and a lot of times too, they have the
Speaker 1: coaster break, which you know kid bikes in the US
Speaker 1: they're required to have a coaster break. But again there's
Speaker 1: all these reports talking about how like that is a
Speaker 1: more difficult way for a kid to stop the bike
Speaker 1: because it puts them off balance. And so all of
Speaker 1: their bikes they have actual handbrakes. Uh, start teaching them
Speaker 1: from an early age that that is how you stop
Speaker 1: the bike. Yeah, that's great, And I think it's always
Speaker 1: good for us to be able to share the ways
Speaker 1: in which we have spent more money and potentially regretted it,
Speaker 1: and then and then the ways in which we've spent
Speaker 1: more money and we feel like it's really paid off.
Speaker 1: And it sounds like this bike for Clover has been
Speaker 1: just this step up from the balance bike, and then
Speaker 1: she's really enjoying bike riding, and she loves it, like literally,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been raining a lot recently, but every
Speaker 1: stinking day after school she wants to go outside and
Speaker 1: ride her bike. And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, it's
Speaker 1: been raining for like five days in a row. We
Speaker 1: can't go out again. But no joke. When we first
Speaker 1: got it, it took her two or three minutes to
Speaker 1: get started riding on that thing. And you could not
Speaker 1: have seen me smiling any bigger than you know, seeing
Speaker 1: one of my kids ride a bike, ride a big
Speaker 1: kid bike for the first time ever. I was so proud,
Speaker 1: so happy, And it's totally worth the money when that happens, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's a great investment right there, And truly is I mean,
Speaker 1: we we we I'm kind of finicky about using the
Speaker 1: word investment, but really I really only want to use
Speaker 1: it and when I'm talking about something that is going
Speaker 1: to pay off in the end. Uh, And we use
Speaker 1: investment about buying couches or just stupid stuff that actually
Speaker 1: isn't really an investment, but but a bike is kind
Speaker 1: of an investment in your kids future for loving biking.
Speaker 1: That's going to save them money in the long term,
Speaker 1: So I think I can use it appropriately in that context. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: It's something else that I feel like you could get behind,
Speaker 1: is that this specific bike, it's gonna work for two
Speaker 1: other kids. Like, we've got two more kids who will
Speaker 1: be able to ride on that bike. And so when
Speaker 1: you know that you can take a purchase like that
Speaker 1: and stretch it out, you're not just dividing it by
Speaker 1: one kid, You're dividing it by three kids. That is
Speaker 1: a lot of use. And Uh, well, I'll let you
Speaker 1: guys borrow it soon as well, so you can kind
Speaker 1: of get a field for it. Man, sounds good. I'm
Speaker 1: get you on board, all right, Matt, let's talk about
Speaker 1: the beer that we're having on the show today. Our
Speaker 1: friends Waffles on Wednesday. They write a blog about pursuing
Speaker 1: financial independence, and they tossed a beer are away last
Speaker 1: time they were in town. This one's called I learned
Speaker 1: it by watching you, and it's a collaboration by literally
Speaker 1: two of our favorite breweries, Burial and Other Half. I've
Speaker 1: been to both breweries, Matt, and I love what these
Speaker 1: guys are pumping out, and I'm excited to try this
Speaker 1: one that they've created together with you. Today on the show,
Speaker 1: my friend yeah man, and you may have noticed, I'm
Speaker 1: wearing my other half half like I do so often
Speaker 1: these days, step in that swag. I really like that
Speaker 1: brewery man, the other half up in Brooklyn. They're really good,
Speaker 1: so good, so good. All right, Matt, let's get onto
Speaker 1: the topic at hand. Today on the show, we're talking
Speaker 1: about striving for work life balance. And I will say
Speaker 1: that work life balance, well, it's it's not really the
Speaker 1: most popular term when we're discussing this topic anymore. You know.
Speaker 1: We had author Kurt Steinhorst on recently, and he prefers
Speaker 1: to discuss how you can integrate the worlds of work
Speaker 1: and life. So he's talking about work life integration and
Speaker 1: I understand that. I understand why he's choosing those terms instead,
Speaker 1: but I still appreciate the desire to achieve work life
Speaker 1: balance in our lives, and I think striving for balance
Speaker 1: in and of itself it takes effort, right, It's like
Speaker 1: pursuing margin, And we talked about that the very first
Speaker 1: episode of this year. It feels like we're a salmon,
Speaker 1: like swimming upstream, fighting the current. It's not easy, but
Speaker 1: but it's possible. And I think it's worth making that
Speaker 1: effort because all work and no play, well, it makes
Speaker 1: us really dull. And this effort, well, it might feel
Speaker 1: very much like a pendulum at times where we never
Speaker 1: quite hit it exactly right. So while there's not really
Speaker 1: any sort of silver bullet, I don't think that we're
Speaker 1: gonna offer up in this episode, Matt when it comes
Speaker 1: to the question of work life balance and how to
Speaker 1: find it, we can at least find ways to help
Speaker 1: ourselves achieve more balance, just a greater level of it
Speaker 1: in our everyday lives. Yeah, man, this is something I
Speaker 1: definitely want to make sure that I am striving after myself,
Speaker 1: because in a culture that idolizes work, we find ourselves
Speaker 1: chronically fatigued and exhausted because we give too much of
Speaker 1: ourselves to our work while leaving little left for ourselves
Speaker 1: and for the folks around us. Like most Americans don't
Speaker 1: even take all of their vacation time, and when they do,
Speaker 1: they find it impossible to actually stop working. When we
Speaker 1: do that, that that leads to burn out. Burnout can cause
Speaker 1: us to make worse decisions, and then oftentimes that causes
Speaker 1: us to become impulsive with our money. So this is
Speaker 1: really important stuff for us to talk about. And so
Speaker 1: regardless of the job that you have and what fields
Speaker 1: you're in, I think there is room for more balance
Speaker 1: and striving after that in all of our lives. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, so, Matt, let's talk about some of the
Speaker 1: symptoms that someone might be experiencing that would indicate a
Speaker 1: lack of balance in their lives. I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: a doctor or something trying to diagnose somebody right now.
Speaker 1: But I think some of these symptoms that we're gonna
Speaker 1: discuss here, well, the ones that you and I've experienced before,
Speaker 1: because we're normal human beings that have prioritized work over
Speaker 1: life at different times. Finding that balance is hard to do,
Speaker 1: and and we know these symptoms because there are things
Speaker 1: we've dealt with over time, or maybe we're even dealing
Speaker 1: with now. I mean, let's be honest, you know, like
Speaker 1: launching a podcast and trying to maintain that while we
Speaker 1: have full time jobs, new born children. It's not super easy.
Speaker 1: And so like, these are things that are are kind
Speaker 1: of hitting close to home for us, and so I
Speaker 1: think maybe for both of us, this is a good
Speaker 1: reminder to to keep our eyes open to some of
Speaker 1: these different signs yeah for sure. So all right, those symptoms,
Speaker 1: Let's start with stress. That's an obvious one, right, being
Speaker 1: consistently stressed out, that's a major indicator that we might
Speaker 1: be working too much. And depending on the individual, well,
Speaker 1: this stress can manifest itself in all sorts of ways,
Speaker 1: and that can be debilitating, like an inability to get
Speaker 1: proper sleep every night. So if we find it hard
Speaker 1: to rest, what's a good chance that we're working too
Speaker 1: much and enjoying life too little. And stress can leads
Speaker 1: to physical pain as well, that you know, like physical
Speaker 1: being that we actually experience in our bodies, right, like headaches,
Speaker 1: that strain that you feel in your neck, like if
Speaker 1: you're sitting there at the office, you know it kind
Speaker 1: of hunched over in your chair, staring at your computer.
Speaker 1: It can have a literal effect on our sumas ability
Speaker 1: to digest food properly, and it even affects our health
Speaker 1: and more serious ways as well, Like it's documented that
Speaker 1: working more than fifty five hours a week that raises
Speaker 1: our risk of heart attack and stroke by a significant amounts. Man,
Speaker 1: this is serious stuff. Yeah, we talk about money, right,
Speaker 1: but money isn't as important as your life. And I
Speaker 1: think when we're super stressed out because we're working too
Speaker 1: much and too much of our faculties, too much of
Speaker 1: our focus, too much of our attention is going to
Speaker 1: our everyday nine to five, but it turns into more
Speaker 1: like an eight to seven or something like that, then
Speaker 1: it is going to lead to a lot of unhealthiness.
Speaker 1: And that stuff impacts your wallet, but more than anything,
Speaker 1: it just impacts the way you feel. It impacts the
Speaker 1: way you move through life, and it just makes life
Speaker 1: a whole lot less fun. And so, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it really is important to talk about this topic from
Speaker 1: a bunch of different angles today. And that leads into
Speaker 1: one of the night symptoms that people often experience when
Speaker 1: they're overworked and they're lacking balance, and that's pessimism. Well,
Speaker 1: we tend to have more negative thoughts and respond poorly
Speaker 1: to the good things that we experience when we're overwhelmed
Speaker 1: and overworked. If you kind of find yourself having more
Speaker 1: of a negative outlook in general, well it's time to
Speaker 1: kind of reassess how balance your life currently is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and will not just a sort of negative alok on
Speaker 1: on things. Another sign is just an overall lack of
Speaker 1: the other good and healthy things in our lives. If
Speaker 1: you find yourself cutting back in other areas of your
Speaker 1: life that you know are important, right, then you might
Speaker 1: be working too much, Like maybe you've eliminated exercise from
Speaker 1: your weekly routine, or maybe like your relationships are suffering. Right,
Speaker 1: If important healthy habits are consistently missing from your daily life,
Speaker 1: I think that's a key sign that you are in
Speaker 1: an imbalanced states. Yeah, these symptoms, well, they can be
Speaker 1: a huge sign that the more that we notice these
Speaker 1: things cropping up in our lives that things just aren't balanced.
Speaker 1: They'll work in life just aren't aligned properly. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: a lot of folks would argue that the sort of
Speaker 1: the main cause for this that it's noble, right, Like
Speaker 1: we're working hard because we're trying to make more money
Speaker 1: because we want to get ahead, like we we're trying
Speaker 1: to set our families up to be in a better
Speaker 1: position down the road. But unfortunately that can mean that
Speaker 1: a lot of other areas in our life suffer. Yeah.
Speaker 1: For sure, money plays a huge part in this whole
Speaker 1: discussion about work life balance, and so we'll talk more
Speaker 1: about that in just a second. Right after this break
Speaker 1: al right here, we are back for the break, we're
Speaker 1: talking about how important it is for us to strive
Speaker 1: after work life balance, man. And you know what, I
Speaker 1: think it's important for us to address the fact that
Speaker 1: we talk about side hustles all the time, right, Like
Speaker 1: we talk about working hard to get ahead, and so
Speaker 1: how does suggesting more work help you to achieve greater balance? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Matt and Jewel are always trying to give me to
Speaker 1: work more to make more money. What's up with that?
Speaker 1: And now here we are talking about work life balance.
Speaker 1: But I think it's important for us to talk about
Speaker 1: side hustles and trying to make more on the side,
Speaker 1: and fact that side hustles are not for everyone. You
Speaker 1: might be currently tapped out with what you are already doing,
Speaker 1: and so if that's you, starting a side hustle is
Speaker 1: probably going to be a bad idea. And then if
Speaker 1: you do start one, If you do have a side hustle,
Speaker 1: do not be afraid to reassess your situation. Is it
Speaker 1: actually bringing you closer to your goals? Like do you
Speaker 1: have an actual goal set that you know that you're
Speaker 1: working towards. Oftentimes the perfect side hustle can stem out
Speaker 1: of expanding a hobby and it could allow you to
Speaker 1: replace your full time job. Certainly, for a while you're
Speaker 1: gonna be pulling double duty, right, But eventually, hopefully that
Speaker 1: side hustle might be able to scale up into a
Speaker 1: full fledged business and you can replace that time that
Speaker 1: you're spending at your full time job with this new
Speaker 1: side hustle. We're not necessarily advocating for you to add
Speaker 1: hours that you're spending working to your life. And definitely, yeah,
Speaker 1: and a side hustle is just not for everyone, and
Speaker 1: it's not for everyone at all times. It makes me
Speaker 1: think of our our friend Paul, and he kind of
Speaker 1: worked for this major corporation. He didn't hate it, but
Speaker 1: it wasn't really his jam either, and so he kind
Speaker 1: of started to get into real estate investing, and you know,
Speaker 1: over time, he just found it more interesting and he
Speaker 1: found that he was doing well at it, and so
Speaker 1: he just continued to kind of ramp that up, and
Speaker 1: at this point in time he's been able to quit
Speaker 1: his full time job. He does consulting on the side,
Speaker 1: so he is able to go back and work for
Speaker 1: that corporation on his terms and other places too, like
Speaker 1: very right, which is which is a huge benefit and
Speaker 1: his real estate essentially funds his lifestyle, So all that
Speaker 1: consulting stuff, that's just kind of the icing on top
Speaker 1: of the cake. But yeah, if you were to try
Speaker 1: to continue once he reached at certain point of real
Speaker 1: estate to work that full time job as well, I
Speaker 1: think he realized that it would have led to a
Speaker 1: massive imbalance. At some point, something's got to give, right
Speaker 1: and and so yeah, I think that's an important thing
Speaker 1: to note when we're talking about side hustles. At some
Speaker 1: point something has to give, and maybe it's a side
Speaker 1: hustle and maybe it's a day job, but trying to
Speaker 1: continue both in perpetuity, that's definitely gonna lead you to
Speaker 1: a place where you're gonna find yourself in a in
Speaker 1: a massive situation of balance. Well, so let's ahead and
Speaker 1: talk about some of the things that can lead to imbalance,
Speaker 1: that can lead to us over working when it comes
Speaker 1: to work in our life. And you touched on this
Speaker 1: with Paul a little bit, but when someone doesn't know
Speaker 1: why they are working, right, Like we talked about the
Speaker 1: why behind our money, If you don't know why you're
Speaker 1: doing what you're doing, that can seriously lead to overwork.
Speaker 1: Not having a mission statement can lead to that imbalance.
Speaker 1: You might feel conflicted consistently by how you are spending
Speaker 1: your time if you do not have a clear direction.
Speaker 1: It sounds like with Paul, perhaps he was looking for
Speaker 1: a little more flexibility when it came to his time,
Speaker 1: or even a slightly different challenge when it came to
Speaker 1: his work. For everyone out there, it's going to be
Speaker 1: something different. But it's hard to know what your why
Speaker 1: is if you haven't taken some time to consider what
Speaker 1: it is that you truly want your life to look like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so really, I guess the marching orders when you hear
Speaker 1: something like that is to find out what your why
Speaker 1: is spend some time because oftentimes I think, Matt, you're right,
Speaker 1: like we're we're looking at someone else's why. We're living
Speaker 1: life according to somebody else's terms and kind of what
Speaker 1: they think is important, and we as individuals need to
Speaker 1: do some soul searching to figure out what what it
Speaker 1: is that we want our life to look like, and
Speaker 1: that might involve big changes like moving or downsizing. But
Speaker 1: when we can identify our goals and then reframe our
Speaker 1: work as a means to achieve those goals, then I
Speaker 1: think we're on the right track. Yeah, And if you
Speaker 1: don't identify your why, it's gonna be really easy for
Speaker 1: your boss or if your company to identify that thing
Speaker 1: for you. Right, Because, like I mean, we live in
Speaker 1: a culture, like an American culture, where achievement and you know,
Speaker 1: getting ahead, that's kind of the defaults. And while those
Speaker 1: can be great things, if left unchecked, those things can
Speaker 1: kind of ruin the rest of our life. It can
Speaker 1: cut them up, Yes, exactly. I think if it as
Speaker 1: like this flame, this fire, right, a camp fire is
Speaker 1: this beautiful, wonderful thing when it's sitting there where it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be, you know, like the bear wants it
Speaker 1: exactly where the kids can sit there and they've got
Speaker 1: their smores, right, But if that fire gets out of
Speaker 1: that firing, well, then it's a se reous problem. So
Speaker 1: I think it can be helpful for us to view
Speaker 1: achievement in getting ahead through that lens. Only you can
Speaker 1: prevent achievement fires. Right, So we're going with that, Okay, perfect,
Speaker 1: all right. So another root cause that can really lead
Speaker 1: to a good amount of work life and balance is
Speaker 1: out of control spending. It's not having our finances in order. Finally,
Speaker 1: we're talking about money, it's in the title of the podcast, like,
Speaker 1: we should get to that a little bit sooner, but yeah,
Speaker 1: we're we're there now, so out of control spending truly
Speaker 1: can force us to work more than we want to,
Speaker 1: and that's a real problem, racking up debt, buying more
Speaker 1: stuff that means being forced to up our income. Man,
Speaker 1: we I hate hearing about that, Matt, where the where
Speaker 1: people have essentially pigeonholed themselves in the corner by racking
Speaker 1: up credit card debt because they found curbing their spending
Speaker 1: to be just too difficult. And I know it's easier
Speaker 1: said than done, right, we talked about it a lot,
Speaker 1: but it is something that we have to do if
Speaker 1: we do want more of a work life balance, if
Speaker 1: we don't want to have to work more to fund
Speaker 1: our lifestyle, well then we need to have a simpler
Speaker 1: life style, that's right. And so the solution here is
Speaker 1: to create and stick to a budget, which, like you said,
Speaker 1: easier said than done for a lot of people. If
Speaker 1: you're in bad shape, get some help and some accountability,
Speaker 1: Like do not let the reason for your work life
Speaker 1: imbalance be that you are consistently spending more than you make.
Speaker 1: We are actually gonna do an episode on Budgets next week,
Speaker 1: so you can look forward to that one showing up
Speaker 1: in your podcatchers soon. I'm at the edge of my
Speaker 1: seat right now. It's gonna be a good one, yeah, man.
Speaker 1: And I think another root cause that we need to
Speaker 1: discuss that leads to a work life imbalance is difficulty
Speaker 1: actually working. You might be on the clock, but constant
Speaker 1: distractions could be keeping you from working efficiently on the
Speaker 1: good stuff. And you're not the only one that has
Speaker 1: this issue either. It takes an average of twenty three
Speaker 1: minutes for an individual to refocus after getting distracted. Believes
Speaker 1: that as someone who works from home, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: it takes me that long to like fully get back
Speaker 1: into the groove. Yes, completely. If you're distracted from a
Speaker 1: specific task you're working on by any mail or your
Speaker 1: phone buzzing in your pocket, or just a coworker coming in,
Speaker 1: you know how hard it is to get re engaged
Speaker 1: in that task that you were working hard at. So
Speaker 1: how do we tahle this, Well, we have to make
Speaker 1: changes so that we can actually get the things accomplished.
Speaker 1: Then we need to get accomplished instead of just quote
Speaker 1: unquote like being at work, having our work day dictated
Speaker 1: by whatever email comes has come across our inbox most recently.
Speaker 1: That's how we kind of fight back. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why we're seeing kind of a rising popularity of
Speaker 1: companies going to five hour workdays because they're realizing that
Speaker 1: a traditional forty hour workweek well involve just a lot
Speaker 1: of employee distraction, and if they can get their employees
Speaker 1: to buy into working fewer hours but being a hun
Speaker 1: percent focused during those work hours, they're going to have
Speaker 1: employees that are just as productive, if not more so. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: one of the things that man I would suggest as
Speaker 1: doing a time audits, which sounds like a fancy term
Speaker 1: for just keeping track of your time. Right. This has
Speaker 1: made a huge difference in my life. Just like you
Speaker 1: want your money being spent towards the things that you
Speaker 1: actually value, we want your time going in the same direction,
Speaker 1: towards the things that you actually care about. When you
Speaker 1: are spending your time in a way that prioritizes the
Speaker 1: people you love and and includes the interests you value,
Speaker 1: you are far less likely to feel out of whack. So,
Speaker 1: just like with our budgets and tracking our spending our dollars,
Speaker 1: should reflect the things that we value in our life.
Speaker 1: In the same way our schedules should also reflect the
Speaker 1: things that we value. Yeah, and I think, Matt, another
Speaker 1: helpful way to combat a difficulty actually working while we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be working is shutting out the noise around
Speaker 1: us so that we can get those important and crucial
Speaker 1: things done. And so, Matt, my job in particular is
Speaker 1: one where I feel like I have to be responsive
Speaker 1: more immediately. I do have timely things happening a large
Speaker 1: part of the day and that I have to be
Speaker 1: able to react to quickly, and so I can't always
Speaker 1: shut these things off, but I do have to find
Speaker 1: key times to be away from email and slack in
Speaker 1: order to accomplish the bigger tasks that I want to
Speaker 1: get done. So this is obviously get to vary by job,
Speaker 1: by industry, by the culture of your workplace. But the
Speaker 1: more time that you can separate yourself from the constant
Speaker 1: buzzing and distraction and people around you and focus on
Speaker 1: a particular item of work, the more productive you're gonna be.
Speaker 1: And you might even find yourself being able to leave
Speaker 1: work earlier than you thought you normally could have, getting
Speaker 1: home in time for dinner where you weren't able to
Speaker 1: do that before, by letting those less important things wait
Speaker 1: and actually having more time for those more important tasks
Speaker 1: that are things that you have to get done well, man.
Speaker 1: I will share a quick little tip, a little strategy
Speaker 1: that I've been able to incorporate into my life as
Speaker 1: someone who works from home. Right, I've got my little
Speaker 1: home office, but that doesn't mean I can't hear my
Speaker 1: family and my kids screaming in the background. And so
Speaker 1: I would suggest you know, you're talking about the noise
Speaker 1: of the office, Well, I've got the noise of my house,
Speaker 1: and so I would completely recommend that you get some
Speaker 1: nice earplugs, the soft kind you can kind of roll
Speaker 1: up in your fingers and jam in your ears. Dude,
Speaker 1: I am able to work so much better when I
Speaker 1: can hear nothing Like I'm not one of these people
Speaker 1: who like to turn on, you know, a bunch of
Speaker 1: music and have all this kind of stuff going on.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people will go to like Comfitivity.
Speaker 1: Have you ever used that app? Or I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's an app. I used to go to it
Speaker 1: on on my web browser, but it like mimics the
Speaker 1: sounds of a cafe and you can do like lunch,
Speaker 1: murmur and like because some people, for them, they are
Speaker 1: able to work better when there's this sort of white
Speaker 1: noise surrounding them where it feels like they're in a
Speaker 1: sort of work office environment. But for me, man, it's
Speaker 1: the complete opposite. I want like zen yoga like silence,
Speaker 1: and I'm able to achieve that when I actually use
Speaker 1: ear plugs. So I know that kind of sounds silly.
Speaker 1: It might be silly for a lot of folks who
Speaker 1: who do work in an office, But if you find
Speaker 1: yourself being distracted by the things that you hear being
Speaker 1: overset are just different noises in your office, man, I
Speaker 1: would completely recommend that. If that's something you can get
Speaker 1: away with ear plugs, that's a good recommendation. Seriously, dude.
Speaker 1: Al Right, So I think another core root cause, uh
Speaker 1: that could lead to more work life and balance, and
Speaker 1: it often does for a lot of people. It could
Speaker 1: just be your job is a big issue and you
Speaker 1: could be in a field that's demanding, or have a
Speaker 1: boss who only cares about the profitability of the company
Speaker 1: and ringing as much productivity out of you as as
Speaker 1: they can. So if your supervisor is the problem, Well,
Speaker 1: you might need to seek to work in a different
Speaker 1: department or even consider switching companies. And if you work
Speaker 1: in a soul sucking industry, you might want to consider
Speaker 1: what it would look like to switch careers altogether. And
Speaker 1: it might not be as crazy as it sounds, especially
Speaker 1: if it allows you to spend your time in a
Speaker 1: way that reflects what you value. And I know that
Speaker 1: these decisions, well they're not made overnight, Matt, right, Like
Speaker 1: people aren't like cool, Yeah, all right, I'll switch jobs tomorrow.
Speaker 1: But it is one of those things that you might
Speaker 1: need to start working towards. If you realize that your
Speaker 1: life is in a state of imbalance, if you're if
Speaker 1: you're exhibiting some of those symptoms as that we mentioned earlier, well,
Speaker 1: then kind of making the long play to switch careers
Speaker 1: or to find another employer that can start today, although
Speaker 1: it might take a few months or even longer to
Speaker 1: actually get there. Right. Yeah, for a lot of folks, though,
Speaker 1: leaving your job or changing industries altogether, that may not
Speaker 1: at all be a possibility for you. If so, it
Speaker 1: is crucial to develop hard boundaries. And so after the
Speaker 1: break we'll discuss more of what some of those boundaries
Speaker 1: might look like. Alight, Matt, we're back from the break
Speaker 1: and we're talking about work life balance. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the ultimate way to achieve it. Quitting your job. I'm
Speaker 1: out of here. Some people might need to do that
Speaker 1: if it's that bad, right, And I just want to
Speaker 1: give a personal example from my life. Man, I had
Speaker 1: this job where I was producing a morning news show
Speaker 1: that was basically my first big time job out of college,
Speaker 1: and it was it was terrible. I gotta be honest.
Speaker 1: I didn't like it. I learned a lot, and I
Speaker 1: was glad I took it because the learning curve was steep,
Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, I basically got initiated
Speaker 1: into the radio production world in no time flat. You
Speaker 1: paid your dues, Yeah, very very much so. But my
Speaker 1: job was based around the news and the news never stopped.
Speaker 1: I've heard that before. And I had to book guests
Speaker 1: for the next day, and so I had to stay
Speaker 1: on top of the news and basically at the same time,
Speaker 1: I had to wake up just ridiculously early. The show
Speaker 1: was like that started five in the morning, so I
Speaker 1: had to be up at like three. Yeah, I remember,
Speaker 1: you've talked about this before, and then maybe you would
Speaker 1: get a nap like later that day, but otherwise you're
Speaker 1: still hanging out with your friends like during their normal hours.
Speaker 1: And and then you know, after my nap, I had
Speaker 1: to look at the news again and try to book
Speaker 1: then the other guests for the for the upcoming for
Speaker 1: the show the next day. It was just too much.
Speaker 1: The job wasn't conducive to having real boundaries, at least
Speaker 1: for me, and so I quit five months later, and
Speaker 1: I didn't really have kind of the next thing lined
Speaker 1: up yet, but I just knew I couldn't continue. And
Speaker 1: the great news was I was financially okay to be
Speaker 1: able to do that. But yeah, maybe for some people,
Speaker 1: quitting is the only way to achieve work life balance.
Speaker 1: I just want to throw that out there, that that
Speaker 1: a possibility. We mentioned the job being the biggest issue,
Speaker 1: and it might be that the only way to get
Speaker 1: rid of that issue is to to leave all together. Yeah, Juel,
Speaker 1: And what I want to point out here is that
Speaker 1: you were in a financial position to take that step.
Speaker 1: Right when you first took that job. You didn't know
Speaker 1: that eventually you were gonna want out, but you started
Speaker 1: doing smart things with your money, and that allowed you
Speaker 1: to be in a position were you were able to say,
Speaker 1: peace out. You know, I'm out of here, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go travel. Yeah, I sure didn't know it was going
Speaker 1: to be that quick. But well, for a lot of folks, though,
Speaker 1: quitting may not be an option. Uh. And if so,
Speaker 1: it's important to figure out what the expectations are and
Speaker 1: when it comes to communicating and getting your work done
Speaker 1: with your employer. Right your your boss might even commend
Speaker 1: you if you proactively draw some hard lines around your
Speaker 1: personal time and so hopefully you know through conversation you
Speaker 1: can define those hours with your boss. You can figure
Speaker 1: out what it is that you need to get done.
Speaker 1: And then the other vital part of that is making
Speaker 1: sure that you're able to communicate that to your colleagues.
Speaker 1: That way, you're still an important part of the team, right, Like,
Speaker 1: you don't want to just say like, okay, these are
Speaker 1: my boundaries now and have that be a detriment to
Speaker 1: what you would be able to contribute to your team, Like,
Speaker 1: you still want to be able to get the work done,
Speaker 1: and hopefully this will allow you to get your work
Speaker 1: done more efficiently and at a higher caliber. At the
Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, and and that in in our culture
Speaker 1: right now of basically constant connection and our employer thinking
Speaker 1: that we should respond at all hours of the night. Well,
Speaker 1: that constant connection to technology, I think can make us
Speaker 1: think that we're more productive than we actually are. And
Speaker 1: if we're always present via email and slack, are we
Speaker 1: giving ourselves the time to think through our bigger goals
Speaker 1: and the impact that we're actually having. And I think
Speaker 1: we're not oftentimes right because we're just responding to the
Speaker 1: immediate things and so basically always being in touch, it's
Speaker 1: not really a good thing for us. So consider taking
Speaker 1: work email off your phone. I deleted work email and
Speaker 1: Slack from my phone because I realized that it was
Speaker 1: more of a distraction than it was helping me actually
Speaker 1: get things done at work, and that the things that
Speaker 1: were more pressing and needed what my direct super visor
Speaker 1: could text or call me. And I let her know that,
Speaker 1: I said, you can reach out to me via via
Speaker 1: a phone call or a text if there's something that's urgent,
Speaker 1: and that happens, you know, a couple of times a year.
Speaker 1: But at least now I have this kind of clear
Speaker 1: conscience when I go home that I don't need to
Speaker 1: be checking any of that stuff. It just doesn't need
Speaker 1: a factor into my evening. And I know that not
Speaker 1: everyone can set such clear boundaries, but a lot of
Speaker 1: us can. Many of us can, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of us can, but we're afraid to sure, like like
Speaker 1: we're just afraid of taking those steps because we think
Speaker 1: that like, oh that you know, that's not going to
Speaker 1: allow us to get that advancement, or oh, this is
Speaker 1: gonna affect this. But I think that's a great challenge
Speaker 1: for us to take and to see, like, does this
Speaker 1: actually affect the quality and the quantity of work that
Speaker 1: I'm truly able to get done. I think it will
Speaker 1: affect it in the positive if instead of constantly doing
Speaker 1: work or constantly replying to emails, if we're able to
Speaker 1: essentially batch our work right. Like it makes me think
Speaker 1: of like doing dishes. We don't do dishes all day long,
Speaker 1: like every time there's a dirty plate or dirty fork
Speaker 1: or at least I mean, that's not how we roll, Like,
Speaker 1: but we put everything in the sink, and at the
Speaker 1: end of the night, after the kids are in bed,
Speaker 1: I go and I tackle the dishes and it and
Speaker 1: I can knock them all out and no time. When
Speaker 1: we have this constant trickle something like email, I feel
Speaker 1: like it just wears on us. And I just think
Speaker 1: those constant notifications, though not necessarily urgent, can just you know,
Speaker 1: like a like a dripping faucet. It just wears on
Speaker 1: us mentally. And man, I would even suggest for folks.
Speaker 1: This is something I've done recently, is like I still
Speaker 1: have email on my phone, but turn off your notifications.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about your sound notifications or like the banners,
Speaker 1: like the pop up banners, but something I've done recently
Speaker 1: is I've turned off badges notifications like the icons that
Speaker 1: you can show up at the top of your phone.
Speaker 1: So you've got your email app, and when you have
Speaker 1: an email, there's a little red dot with a little
Speaker 1: number in there. You can turn that off, and so
Speaker 1: I can still go to my email and check my email.
Speaker 1: I know there's unread emails there, but you know what
Speaker 1: I don't need is for that number just to constantly
Speaker 1: increase when I'm off the clock, one constant reminder, yes exactly.
Speaker 1: And so why have that on? You know, why why
Speaker 1: have it looked like something that needs address, because like
Speaker 1: they make it read for a reason like, it's to
Speaker 1: get your attention. And so that's an easy little change
Speaker 1: that you can do on your phone, going to notifications,
Speaker 1: go down to your email, and turn off notifications altogether.
Speaker 1: Ma I mean that reminds me just kind of of,
Speaker 1: you know, something I briefly mentioned at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the episode, which was certain employers going to five hour
Speaker 1: workdays and they've found that their employees are more productive.
Speaker 1: And it's because so much of what we do when
Speaker 1: we think we're productive by just being at work right that, well,
Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time it turns out on
Speaker 1: social media or walking down the hallway or having lunch.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are all these things that take our
Speaker 1: focus away from the task at hand. And if we
Speaker 1: can just kind of concentrated in this smaller amount of
Speaker 1: time but we're uber focused, then it changes our workflow
Speaker 1: and allows us to have more freedom in the other
Speaker 1: hours of our lives. And those employers seem to be
Speaker 1: talking about how successful, how good it's been for their
Speaker 1: company and for their employees, and so I think you're
Speaker 1: right starting the conversation with your employer or with your
Speaker 1: direct manager using some of these stories as kind of
Speaker 1: fuel for the fire as kind of your artillery right
Speaker 1: in the fight to take back some of some more
Speaker 1: of your life and some more of your autonomy. That's
Speaker 1: a great place to start, and I think you can
Speaker 1: help kind of start that conversation going with your boss
Speaker 1: and it can help lead to a greater work life
Speaker 1: balance in your life. We're talking essentially about kind of
Speaker 1: like technological boundaries, and we're talking about time boundaries, but
Speaker 1: let's dive into our minds a little bit. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about mental boundaries. So many jobs today involve information and
Speaker 1: ideas that it makes it even more difficult to turn
Speaker 1: off our work in order to achieve that work life balance. Right,
Speaker 1: got to admit that's my main struggle really. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: forget about our cell phones, like our brains, like they
Speaker 1: are the real culprits here when it comes to the
Speaker 1: inability to truly turn off our work. And so how
Speaker 1: do we take the steps in order to make sure
Speaker 1: that our minds are in a healthy spot. We want
Speaker 1: to make sure that not only are our bodies off
Speaker 1: the clock, but that our minds are off the clock
Speaker 1: as well. And the first thing we need to do
Speaker 1: is start with eliminating these physical cused of work that
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, right, like removing your work email
Speaker 1: from your phone, if that's what's necessary, turn off those notifications.
Speaker 1: Maybe for a lot of folks, that's actually leaving at
Speaker 1: five pm from the office and even taking vacations, right Like,
Speaker 1: we a lot of employers say that there are a
Speaker 1: certain number of vacation days that you have, but oftentimes
Speaker 1: people do not take those vacations and maybe sometimes there's
Speaker 1: a lot of guilts associated with that. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: think there's a ton of guilt associated with taking vacation
Speaker 1: in our modern workforce. We feel like we're slacking and
Speaker 1: we're leaving, you know, our work to other people to
Speaker 1: do while we're gone. And I think that's why people
Speaker 1: want to stay connected, because they don't want to let
Speaker 1: their colleagues down. But you have to be able to
Speaker 1: take vacation in order to get that break, that mind
Speaker 1: rest from work. You're gonna come back more recharged than ever.
Speaker 1: Just like if you work a few hours in a day,
Speaker 1: but you're more focused, you're probably going to be more
Speaker 1: productive too. And I think another step that we can
Speaker 1: take to make sure our minds are in a healthy
Speaker 1: spot is giving ourselves time to be still and quiet,
Speaker 1: to remind ourselves to the things that truly matter and
Speaker 1: that that can be prayer, that can be meditation, however
Speaker 1: you incorporate that into your life. But Matt, I mean,
Speaker 1: we talked with five am Joel about waking up early,
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm telling you that time in the morning
Speaker 1: where it's just me is so helpful to have some stillness,
Speaker 1: to not have tasks kind of flying my way for
Speaker 1: at least a part of the morning. That's become one
Speaker 1: of my favorite parts of the day. That's the rest
Speaker 1: of your day, like you, right out of the gate, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So for me, that's been really important. I think the
Speaker 1: more that we can incorporate a little bit of stillness
Speaker 1: and quietness into our lives, that's good. And that's coming
Speaker 1: from a guy who's a complete extrovert and has a
Speaker 1: really really hard time doing that, but I've realized the
Speaker 1: importance of it, so I'm making it happen. And once
Speaker 1: you've done those things, I think the next important step
Speaker 1: is to replace the cues that would lead you to
Speaker 1: work with cues that will lead you to live life.
Speaker 1: And a lot of that is going to and all
Speaker 1: likelihood involved some scheduling, scheduling time with friends, time for hobbies,
Speaker 1: time for your community, time to volunteer, and time to
Speaker 1: work on your personal health. Yeah, often times for all
Speaker 1: a lot of people. These are the kind of things
Speaker 1: that if you sit them down at a seminar or
Speaker 1: like at a personal development meeting or something, right like,
Speaker 1: they'll write these things down at the top of their
Speaker 1: list and they'll say, like, these are all the things
Speaker 1: that are important to me. But when it comes to
Speaker 1: how we spend our days, like, do we actually do
Speaker 1: these things? I mean, not as much as we work.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that we should match every hour
Speaker 1: that we work with family time or community time, you know,
Speaker 1: just all these different things. But we are so intentional
Speaker 1: with the time that we spend working, right Like, We've
Speaker 1: got deadlines that we have to meet, we have calendar reminders,
Speaker 1: we have you know, events scheduled on our calendars throughout
Speaker 1: the week that have to do with work. And we
Speaker 1: need to be just as intentional and just as proactive
Speaker 1: with the other non work areas of our life. And
Speaker 1: so this makes me think of just a few days ago,
Speaker 1: you and I with a bunch of buddies, we hit
Speaker 1: up a local bar slash restaurant that's gonna be closing
Speaker 1: later this week. A friend of ours, he shot out
Speaker 1: of text and he said, Fellas, we need to hit
Speaker 1: up the Graveyard one more time to enjoy their delicious
Speaker 1: wings on half price wing nin of course that's how
Speaker 1: we do. Yeah, we're getting that deal. But all it
Speaker 1: took was just a little nudge a text from a
Speaker 1: friend to get seven guys together who haven't seen each
Speaker 1: other in a while, and we caught up and had
Speaker 1: a fantastic time. I just know that I want to
Speaker 1: see myself and I want to challenge myself to be
Speaker 1: that intentional and that proactive with the time that I
Speaker 1: am not spending working. Yeah, man, I think as as
Speaker 1: we're talking about striving for work life balance, it's really
Speaker 1: important after all the things that we've discussed to really
Speaker 1: give yourself reasonable expectations. Because of perfect work life balance, well,
Speaker 1: it's it's not always achievable. As our lives EBB and flow,
Speaker 1: we can't always have it exactly like we want, and
Speaker 1: that's okay. I think there are seasons where more work
Speaker 1: and less life or vice versa is going to happen
Speaker 1: because we're not perfect and I've had to tell myself
Speaker 1: too at times, Matt. In a season where where I've
Speaker 1: been a little bit busier with you doing the podcast
Speaker 1: and Emily and I'm Att. We we've had to have
Speaker 1: discussions about this that I'm going to at times fail
Speaker 1: or I do as well at something as I would
Speaker 1: really like to do, and that's because of the specific
Speaker 1: season that we're in. But even in the midst of that,
Speaker 1: I can identify the key components that are gonna help
Speaker 1: me feel connected to the highly valuable things in my life.
Speaker 1: For for example, dinner every single night with my family,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to miss that, for pretty much anything
Speaker 1: three times a week, riding my bike, not gonna miss
Speaker 1: that either, and just basically not being in tune with
Speaker 1: social media almost at all. That has led to just
Speaker 1: a greater ability to enjoy work life balance, even in
Speaker 1: the midst of kind of a busier season for me. Men,
Speaker 1: I like what you said. They're right, perfection, It is
Speaker 1: not the goal. There are going to be certain busy
Speaker 1: seasons in our life. But I think as long as
Speaker 1: we were working towards an average of a balanced life,
Speaker 1: that there are some key areas and components of our
Speaker 1: life that we shouldn't be willing to compromise on, but
Speaker 1: taking time for ourselves, creating more rigid boundaries around when
Speaker 1: we work and when we play, actually using all of
Speaker 1: our vacation time, like that's some must. That's one that
Speaker 1: I feel like you've mentioned recently as well, like making
Speaker 1: sure like I'm going to take that vacation time right,
Speaker 1: this is the year the vacation for me. I'm taking
Speaker 1: it all. But doing all these different things like these
Speaker 1: are important steps to helping us to achieve a better
Speaker 1: work life balance. And when we feel more rested and
Speaker 1: fulfilled in our lives away from work, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us will be surprised to see that we
Speaker 1: become actually more productive when we are at work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They say absence makes the heart grow fonder, and I
Speaker 1: think it's definitely true for work. Yeah. You know when
Speaker 1: you spend like a few days away from work and
Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, I just can't wait to dive back
Speaker 1: into it. Well, I love my job, but it's also
Speaker 1: nice to get away from from a week and remember
Speaker 1: that I love my job, because I think in the
Speaker 1: middle of it, I don't feel like I love my
Speaker 1: job every day. Everybody needs a break man. But ultimately,
Speaker 1: when I look back and I'm looking at the ability
Speaker 1: to get to do what I do every day, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do love my job. But I especially realized that
Speaker 1: when I get away from it for a little while,
Speaker 1: I will say, absence of this beer that we had
Speaker 1: today on the episode also makes my heart grows ponder
Speaker 1: be gives you want more of it? Yes, I do.
Speaker 1: The beer that we had on the show today was
Speaker 1: called I learned it by watching you, and it was
Speaker 1: a collaboration beer between Other Half and Burial Brewing Company. Matt.
Speaker 1: This was delicious, It was wonderful. What was your take
Speaker 1: on it? Well, I'll tell you, but first let me
Speaker 1: tell you what I think of this collaboration, which is
Speaker 1: so this is between Burial and Other Half, And honestly,
Speaker 1: what I imagined was, what if you picked up Asheville
Speaker 1: with its mountains, and you like transplanted it up into
Speaker 1: Brooklyn and so like right across the river, you had
Speaker 1: Asheville across from Manhattan and all of its crunchy Asheville
Speaker 1: granola goodness? Right, how cool would this like bizarro world
Speaker 1: fantasy land be with all of its amazing breweries? Right?
Speaker 1: Across from Manhattan. Yeah, I mean Brooklyn. Brooklyn has its
Speaker 1: own I think claims to coolness for sure, But what
Speaker 1: if what if you married it with Asheville and that's
Speaker 1: too fantastic American cities put together. I mean that'd that'd
Speaker 1: be a good That'd be a match made in heaven.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I couldn ndle it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: these are two of my all time favorite breweries. So
Speaker 1: when they do something together, I totally want to taste
Speaker 1: it and when they take note for sure. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: this beer was super tasty. Yeah, what were your thoughts
Speaker 1: on the actual beer? So I had high expectations because
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, you know, based on two of the top
Speaker 1: tier breweries in the country making beer together, that it's
Speaker 1: going to be ridiculously good. And I gotta say it was.
Speaker 1: This was like darn near a perfect I p A.
Speaker 1: I just really appreciated the attention to detail, the fact
Speaker 1: that it wasn't overwhelming, but it was also just incredibly
Speaker 1: juicy and delicious. And yeah, I feel like the hot
Speaker 1: profile stood out enormously. Uh, And that's exactly what you
Speaker 1: want in an I p A like this. So two
Speaker 1: of the best at the top of their game making
Speaker 1: something just utterly delicious. Oh yeah, man, for me, it
Speaker 1: was juicy. It was a little bit tingly from from
Speaker 1: that hot bites. That's how you know they didn't skimp
Speaker 1: on the hop them out exactly. It's like you're licking
Speaker 1: a nine vault battery. Um Like, I feel like that
Speaker 1: this was just a great example of a double dry
Speaker 1: hopp I p a um. I feel like it almost
Speaker 1: had like a sort of like jasmine kind of honeysuckle
Speaker 1: floral notes to it as well. Just lots of flavor,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, real light, real lazy to drink,
Speaker 1: very delicious. I'm incredibly thankful for our friends Waffles on
Speaker 1: Wednesday for swinging through Atlanta and dropping this one off
Speaker 1: for us. For sure, they picked this one up at Burial.
Speaker 1: I guess the road trip very cool. I think it
Speaker 1: was a barrel. Yeah. But yeah, they've got a great
Speaker 1: blog and they're great people to boot. So all right, Matt,
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks that
Speaker 1: are listening and you want show notes for this episode,
Speaker 1: we'll just check out our website how to money dot
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Speaker 1: also if you are looking for a new credit card.
Speaker 1: While you're there on the site, go to how do
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Speaker 1: see our favorite picks for credit cards, for what credit
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Speaker 1: any of those thinks, it helps out the show. So
Speaker 1: thank you in advance. All Right, buddy, that's going to
Speaker 1: be it until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.