WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Pat Metheny 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:06.880 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi, this 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:10.320 is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's April, which is 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:11.879 Jazz Appreciation. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.160 Months, so we are running some selections from the qlsrchas 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.440 from artists who make some jazziza. This is a twenty 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:21.279 twenty one conversation with none other than Pat Martini. He 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.720 is the only artist to win Grammy's in ten different categories, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.240 and he's got twenty of them. This interview explores Pat's 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.000 many facets of music and his incredible career accomplishments. From 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.800 one of the greatest guitarists in all of music, let 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:36.520 alone jazz. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.600 Please enjoy this QLs classic. 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.960 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.600 I'm your host, christ Love. We have the entire team 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:00.400 Supreme with us right now. There is Sugar Steve ready. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:01.560 Hello, How you doing? 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:03.160 Pat Methene? Oh my god. 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.240 This is awesome for Steve, It's awesome for all of us. 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:08.800 I'm paid Bill, what's up? 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:09.000 Brother? 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.480 And I feel the same way, Papathe I don't know 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:12.119 what you did right now. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:17.279 I'm gonna try to keep it cool, all right? Skipped 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:18.520 it from now? These fonticlar. 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:21.399 I wear it up, but I'm good man down thirty eight. 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.039 We weighed in. You know what I'm saying. 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:26.040 So, yeah, weigh in every day? 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.000 Hell no, that's chaos. 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.600 I only wear it once a month. I was waiting, Sorry, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.000 what's a week? I weigh every Monday. So every Monday 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:34.760 I weigh in and then immediately after I wait in. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.480 That's when I have, you know, whatever I want to 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:38.399 eat just at the way. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:39.039 In, you know what I mean. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:40.240 So because they. 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:41.640 Give me the rest of the week to work it off. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:42.840 You know, accountability. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.040 I feel you integrity and accountability. I'm right there with you, like, yeah. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:47.760 How are you? 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.040 I'm good and I'm negative COVID negative as of yesterday. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.600 I just wanted word up. But what you had like 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:54.360 or something? 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:54.920 Huh? 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:56.960 Where you worry you had like above or something. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.400 I'm trying to get out of town, you know, but 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.240 shd I know what I am right now? 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:00.760 You know what I mean. 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.520 I had a major bug last week. I thought it 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.800 was I thought it was a rap y'all, it's just 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.040 around man, I had the flu, but it was it 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.240 was major anyway, Hey. 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:14.200 Guys, Pat Metheni's here. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:19.560 Yeah, oh I got that anyway, ladies and gentlemen, our 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.840 guest today, his reputation speaks for itself. First of all, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.079 we have to start with the mind blowing factoid that 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:32.079 our guest today is the only musician UH to win 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.079 Grammys and ten categories. 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.200 I didn't even know there was such a thing like. 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.160 It's we got to make a collaborative record, so you 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:41.040 can get a hip hop one. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.639 You probably have one on it, Okay, you know what 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:44.000 I'm saying. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.720 Not to mention this being his almost fifth decade in 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:53.959 the professional recording business, his grand total was twenty He's 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:59.600 absolutely one of the most adventurous, dependable, expansive creatives and 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.480 cat artist in music. Even without a guitar. Is the 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.600 way that his brain thinks. He is a self recleaned 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:12.040 professional improviser, which is very impressive to me because to 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.520 deal with the pressure of having to live up to 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.160 the moment of your expectations and audience expectations, that's a 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.799 lot for me to to weigh in. So I definitely 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.960 want to get on that. That's you know, so much 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.280 I can say, but you know, let's just get to it. 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.959 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Be great Pat matheney Es question. 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.000 Thanks man, what what a treat for me to be here, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.600 and thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate it. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:43.040 Well, we we thank you for coming. 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.400 We were We're also complimenting you on your on your 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:50.200 your your awesome coiff that you've made. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:56.080 Coming from feather one of them picks like you. 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.480 That's all you got to say, That's all you got. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.760 To you know. It's it's weird because. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:10.080 I know, oftentimes sort of outsiders tend to pigeonhole musicians 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.920 in a particular category, and oftentimes more than that, it's 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:19.520 not necessarily sort of an apt description. I mean, you know, 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:23.719 to call you a jazz musician, I think is rather limiting, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.039 because you know, you've done so much more. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:28.040 I always wanted to know. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.400 But the thing is, I'm very familiar with your catalog, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:35.760 but not familiar with your story or your journey. What 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:41.719 would you necessarily call your your brand of music? Because 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.880 you you've literally done everything but the kitchen sink when 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:50.840 it comes to emulating sounds or producing sounds from your 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.320 studio to the record stores and to our ears, What 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.119 would you call your your genre of music? 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.720 Yeah, that's a question that comes up a lot I'm 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.039 sure for you too. For for for most musicians, you know, 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.479 it's it's it's often an issue. I mean, you know, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.599 for me, I wish we had a better name for 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.000 for stuff, you know, or or that we didn't have 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.200 to have names to me when whenever we start going 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.920 down the thing of you know, and and yeah, you're right, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.080 I get it all the time, like you know, what 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:29.120 is what is this? It's usually for me it's usually 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:33.200 a political discussion or a cultural discussion or a dress 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:38.800 code discussion more than a music discussion. And you know, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.640 I feel like there are a couple musicians in that 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:47.760 generation that sort of is just above me, that's sort 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.479 of were of course heroes for me, but also kind 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:56.360 of defined a new way of being as a musician. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.160 And I'll just throw out some names. I mean, Herbie 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.760 is one, Chick Korea would be an incredible example. This Keith, Jared, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.839 Gary Burton, And by that, I mean it's a bunch 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:13.520 of musicians who could play written music with the New 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:18.400 York Philharmonic one night and probably not get fired and 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:23.239 actually be invited back with you know, kudos all around, 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:28.320 and could play the next night with you know, James 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.000 Brown or something, you know, I mean, or or could 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.520 play with, you know, a folk singer. I'm kind of 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.480 like a little bit what you guys have to do, 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:44.560 you know, on the show too. But I mean, for me, 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.480 when I think about that generation of musicians, and there 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:52.840 were a few significant people before them, Train, Charlie Parker, 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.719 Art Tatum ll come to mind, it's people who really 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:01.200 advanced what was possible on their instruments, beyond any description 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:05.159 that you might want to impose on it on a 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.320 political level or a cultural level, just strictly in terms 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.400 of what can you do as a human being with 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.480 an instrument in your hand. You know, that to me 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:20.720 is clearly the model. And you know, I mean the 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.120 J word, I don't know anybody that likes that really, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:28.200 And you know, then there's all these other ones. I mean, man, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.640 there was the the F word came along about about 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.080 ten years into my thing, and I was like, where 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.320 did that one come from? I mean, you know, when 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.400 I first, you know, started making records and stuff, that 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.880 was the era of hyphens. You know, there was jazz, rock, jazz, 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.400 folk folk, this, you know, you know, and in a 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.640 way that was a little bit descriptive of something. But 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.360 I mean, man, by the time I came along, I 0:07:54.480 --> 0:08:00.960 was actually a reactionary to you know, distortion and backbeats 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.200 and stuff. I mean I was already kind of like, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:07.320 you know, you know, kind of looking for something past 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.239 the Maha issue thing. As much as I love that 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.520 that was really more closely connected to, like Tony Williams 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.040 or something like that. And you know, so you know, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.880 it's it's hard to to to come up with a name. 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.520 So here's what happens. I mean, you direct answer your question. 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.880 I'm sitting next to a person on a plane who says, well, 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.360 what kind of music do you play? And I kind 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.880 of look at them and I go, well, you know, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.800 this person seems like if I say jazz, they're going 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.720 to know what I'm talking about, or they're not, or 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.840 you know, it's like it's a case by case thing. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.200 But man, I mean I kind of would do anything 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.240 to have to avoid having to do that. But of course, 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.120 you know, we do live in a world, especially now, 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.400 where you know, this whole issue of stratification of our 0:08:56.040 --> 0:09:00.680 entire personal lifestyles or something that everybody's cure aiding their 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:07.439 entire existence in very specific ways. Yeah, my thing of 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.040 trying to open it up even further, is the actually 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.320 in direct opposition to the culture of the moment. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.120 So I see, Yeah, I was going to say, well, okay, 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.480 I do want to start to how you came to music, 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.400 but since you already went there, I have to know, okay, 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.520 because you were born in a certain time period, and 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.880 knowing that you know albums like in a silent way 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:41.760 or a bitches brew even on the corner, or I mean, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.840 I mean, we can even talk about like the experimental 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:52.840 phase of Coltrane during his last period. You're twelve, thirteen, fourteen, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.040 fifteen at the time, which I know based on other 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.560 musicians I know of that that's a very that's an 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:06.880 extremely impressionable and influential time in a musician's life where 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:11.439 they take everything in and don't throw it away. Whereas 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.000 I would guess if you were older, if you were 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.000 in your twenties during that time period, you might have 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.800 an eyebrow raised with what the fuck is Miles David's 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:25.000 doing right now? But can you describe what it was 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.280 to grow up at least with your young ears, assuming 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:30.920 that your palette was changing by. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.640 Eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen fifteen, could you. 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:39.800 Describe what it was like to witness kind of first 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:46.040 generation those experimental movements in jazz at such a young age, Like, 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.680 how did you take to it? Was there someone to 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.080 slap your hand like that's not music? 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:54.440 Or had they done that, it would have made me 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.520 like it even more, which was kind of the kind 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:02.880 of where I was at. No, it's funny. It's really 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.360 interesting that that you're mentioning that it kind of coincidentally, 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:12.200 in the past month or so, a really fantastic writer 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.040 in the Kansas City area where I am from, wrote 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:20.640 a book kind of. I mean, it's ostensibly about me 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:25.280 from nineteen sixty four to nineteen seventy two, the years 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.880 that I, you know, kind of was on the Kansas 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:33.560 City scene, right, and man, she brought back all kinds 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.360 of stuff and there's all these people talking about that era, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.600 and man, it just took me right back there, because 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.960 generally speaking, I don't look back too much. I'm if 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.239 you come to my house, you were talking about Grammys 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.560 and you wouldn't see one thing. 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:53.040 Man, every broken every day. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.000 I started zero. You know, I don't want to see 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:59.160 anything about how the gig was last night. I want 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.200 to like whatever. But today it's new, and so I 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.400 don't like to have anything around. I don't like to 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.640 think too much about kind of, you know whatever from 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:11.600 in the past. But this book just took me right 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.840 back to exactly what you're talking about. And you know, 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.320 I'm talking about Kansas City, but in fact, I grew 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.640 up in a rural town about twenty thirty miles away 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.240 from Kansas City, where, I mean, man, no one had 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:30.000 any idea what I was interested in at all, and 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.120 nor did I really have any frame of reference for it. So, 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:40.199 I mean, I realize now my way of quantifying things was, oh, 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.680 it's on a record. So the record could be The 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.400 Beach Boys, it could be Ornette Coleman, it could be 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.680 John Phillips SUSA. It could be Porter Wagner and Dolly Parton. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.080 All I knew is I could take it down in 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.880 the basement and play it on my parents recently retired 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:02.240 record player, and actually I only had a very few records, 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.360 and one of the records that really made an impact 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.319 on me was a record my brother brought home four 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.880 and more. That was it, Miles and Miles record. It 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.880 was you know, it was the Quintet when George Coleman 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.360 was was in it, and it's sort of all the 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.280 up tempo stuff from the My Funny Valentine Live concert. 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.439 And I mean, you know, I do hear the rap 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.760 often of people saying, well, you know, you got to 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.400 develop a taste for that kind of music and this, 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.320 that and the other thing. Man. For me, it was 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.640 like somebody switched on the lights and it was mostly 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.720 Tony to tell you, the tree it was to me 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.920 the sound that, yeah, the sound of the ride symbol 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.040 was to me like that was what was about to 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:50.000 happen in the world. And it was actually. 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.920 And Tony had a really like heavy It was almost 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.080 like I would describe it as his approach to his 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.000 ride symbol was violent but very beautiful. Just the amount 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.000 of tone that the fact that he can get so 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:08.640 much tone out of one symbol, hitting in various ways 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.839 like yeah, that always. 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.479 And also he you know, it was just this constantly 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.800 changing like set of grooves. It wasn't it was, you know. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.920 Then of course I had no reference of any of 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.640 that either, nor did I understand that they were playing 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.600 on a blues or they were playing on the form 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.360 of there is No Greater Love. All I knew is 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.960 what it sounded like and mostly what it felt like 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.280 to me. And at the same time, you know, I 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.000 picked up a guitar a year or two before that because, 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.360 like me and a billion other people in the world, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.320 I saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show. So 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:51.760 the guitar itself was this sort of iconic thing as 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.440 much as it was an instrument, and in reference to 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:59.120 my general nature, the one thing my parents didn't want 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.920 me to ever do was play electric guitar. So, I mean, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.880 you know, there you go. It's like, you know, it's 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:07.160 kind of I joke around. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.000 Like an electric guitar was like a four letter word, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.680 similar to like Dylan grabbing electric guitar in sixty five. 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.880 Like, oh, way more than that. I mean, you know, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.480 way more than that. I mean it was like I 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:20.800 I you know, it's more like Mom and Dad, I 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.720 think I'm going to join the devil worshiping cult down 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:24.480 the street here. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.040 So it wasn't a matter of like we just want 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.120 a less a not noisy instrument in the house. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.200 It was more like what that guitar represented exactly. Yeah. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.440 And there were musicians though, right well. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.760 They were kind of musicians. I mean, actually they were 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.280 very musical my dad especially was a really good trumpet player. 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.560 And I have a very important figure in my life. 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:49.960 It's my older brother Mike, five years older than me, 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.560 incredible trumpet player at a very young age. And I 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.320 started playing trumpet two when I was eight, and hence 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.680 the Miles Davis record. You know, trump but was a 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.200 thing kind of in our family, like, you know, not 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.600 any particular kind of trump but just trumpet. And you know, 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.480 we would go see Doc Severnson, who was you know, 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.240 come out the Midwest and do concerts or Clark Terry 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.520 more about the trumpet part of it. And so yeah, 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:24.240 guitar was this other thing. And once again they were right. 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:26.760 I mean, man, what happened in the few years after 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.000 nineteen sixty four, sixty five, sixty six with people with 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:33.920 guitars strapped around their necks was their worst fear come 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.440 to life by ten thousand percent. You know what's weird 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.800 in my case, though, is that that Miles moment put 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.480 me on this whole other direction. And this is more 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:51.160 in response to your question, I didn't think about, like, oh, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:56.440 ornett is really some wacky, far out thing that people 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.160 were getting into fistfights in front of the bandstand about 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.800 and Wes Montgomery, Oh he's commercial because he's playing going 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.320 out of my Head. And you know, I just had no, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.000 first of all, no interest in that in that aspect 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.280 of it. I was just like, man, what are they playing? 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:16.520 And how are they playing that? And what do I 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:21.159 need to know in order to understand this? Like what 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:21.679 is this? 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.960 And did you know did you understand at at early 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:31.320 age that maybe jazz was sort of like an intellectuals 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.400 music or an intellectual game, like. 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:35.399 Did you choose jazz? 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.800 Because like all of your other friends are trying to 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.160 learn Smoke on the water Riff and you're like, well, 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.880 I'm learning Wes Montgomery. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:49.960 Like, I mean, you know, again, I have to say 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:55.320 where I would where I grew up, man, I mean yeah, 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.520 I was. I was completely non aligned with any person 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.919 my own age. You know, I just had nothing to 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:07.360 do with anybody, nor was I particularly interested what anybody 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:13.520 thought about anything, because I was really in them. Well, 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.400 I think most people that are going to deal with 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.600 this language at some point along the way, they had 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.600 to spend four or five years, twelve hours a day alone. 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.879 It's you know, it's sort of like, you know, I 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.439 want to give a speech in you know, Greek to 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.040 a bunch of nuclear physicists. You know, first of all, 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:34.639 I have to learn Greek, and then I got to 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:38.120 learn about nuclear physics, you know. I mean, it's it's 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.919 not something that's going to happen overnight. You know. The 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.240 benefit for me, though, was the Kansas City thing where 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.240 I just happened to kind of chronologically come along at 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.399 a time where at a very young age, I was 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:54.320 able to start working with people who were a lot 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:56.399 better than me. And I mean, I don't know about you, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:58.680 but that's the way you learn is to be. And 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.040 I always tell people, try to be the worst person 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.320 in every band you're in, or at least be around 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.240 musicians who you're going to learn some stuff from, because 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:07.320 that's how it works. 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.560 You know, you got to be the least knowledgeable person 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:10.240 in your circle. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.800 So by the time you got in your first band, 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.679 what was your knowledge and. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.760 Where were you well, I mean, you know, I did 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.439 have my year or so of you know, kind of 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:28.240 messing around with you know, kind of I guess we 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.760 could say rock bands or whatever, and but you know, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.879 I immediately took it very seriously to the point of concern. 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.639 I would say, of everybody. You know, I mean the 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.520 other analogy joke I always make, and it's I think 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.600 a valid one. You know, I've got three kids, and 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.879 you know, as much as there had been resistance to 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.159 me playing the guitar, the thought of me spending twelve 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.320 or thirteen hours a day down in the basement, you know, 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.399 learning who knew what was a little bit like for 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.040 right now. If one of my kids said to me, Dad, 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.320 I'm going to become a professional video game player, you know, 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:13.960 I would say like, no, you're not. You can't do that. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.800 I mean exactly so. But it was like that to them. 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.880 I was like, yeah, I'm going to you know, learn 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.960 you know this McCoy tyner solo on Reaching fourth and 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.600 I'm going to really check out Roy Haynes. You know tonight. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.680 Mom, So you were you were practiced twelve hours a day? 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:35.560 Oh, I was really. I was really finally. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.320 Up to my expectations. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.080 I get up at four o'clock in the morning almost 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:42.880 every day. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:43.639 Now, you know. 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.000 It's you know, to me, music is really hard. I 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.320 know there's people that are really talented and stuff, and 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.760 I I really I cautioned people about their talent because 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.639 I kind of don't really believe that much in talent. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.600 You know, I'm more about you know, it's hard. I 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.040 don't care how talented you are. You gotta you gotta 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:05.920 work on it. 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.399 Why why are the early days were you pushed towards 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:10.520 the hollow body because seems like if you earn rock bands, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.840 it's a weird choice for rock bands, right, I mean 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:14.720 it was because of West Montgomery, or was just because 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.840 that was the first guitar you had the Gibs in the. 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:26.560 Yeah, good question. I mean, so with my parents, you know, 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.439 when I finally like convinced them that I was really 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:34.159 I really wanted to get a guitar, my Christmas present 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.439 one year was not a guitar. It was permission to 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.800 buy a guitar with my own money that I earned. 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:44.879 You got permission, all right, I got permission. 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.800 So it just happened that the you know, I earned 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:53.000 sixty dollars doing I had a little back. Yeah, I 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.120 had a little job and looked in the Kansas City 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:59.359 Star and there was a Gibson guitar for sixty dollars. 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:01.840 It didn't even say what kind, just Gibson guitar. And 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.880 it was an ES one forty which is this small 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.359 hollow body And honestly I didn't, you know, to me, 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.760 it was like Gibson and it was electric and you know, cool, 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:19.520 and so I didn't really care with solid body hollow body, 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.879 and that would have been before I heard four and more. Interesting. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.040 So once I heard four and more, then I began 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.480 the thing that we all do of, like, you know, okay, 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.320 who are the other trumpet players? Who are the other 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.639 bass player that I need to know? And then, of 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.720 course guitar. I was already holding it in my hand, 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.399 and in fact, the father of a friend of my 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.840 brother said, you know, you should check out Wes Montgomery 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.280 and he played me a record and man, that was 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:50.240 it for me. And I was like, well, I got 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.240 this hollow body already. 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:55.760 So I'm like, you know, in the perfect ballpark the 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:57.720 guitar shows you you can choose the guitar. 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:02.000 Well yeah, and then actually funny thing happened. Not funny, 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.359 it was tragic. At the time. My mom is from 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.640 Wisconsin and back in those days, you the only way 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.000 to get to Wisconsin from Kansas City was an airline 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.560 called Ozark Airlines, and you would stop it like des 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:20.040 Moines Cedar rapids you know, Debuque, like you'd stop like 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.320 six places along the way before going to Manitauc where 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.920 she was from. And when we got to manage Walk, 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:29.359 I went to get my guitar and it was just 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:34.760 pieces of wood shattered, not only know, maybe two months 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:39.080 so it was awful, and but Ozark Airlines gave me 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:43.720 I think one hundred dollars, you know, in repayment for it. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.920 And that's when I got my Yes one seventy five, 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.159 which was the guitar that I still play most of 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:51.920 the time. I've had it all these years. 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:54.920 I was going to say to you that I want 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.240 to thank you because I thought, I mean, we've done 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:03.520 five years of five years of shows, and you know, 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.960 we've had every virtuoso musician that you could think of 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.840 on the show, and nothing makes them happier than debunking 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:20.520 my theory that perfect practice makes perfect And you know this, 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.360 this goes a long time ago. I had met saxophonist 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.679 David Murray and I would ask David like, yo, like 0:24:30.240 --> 0:24:33.040 you know, he mentioned something like, well, you know, I 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:35.119 took a nap at two in the morning and then 0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:36.840 I got up at six to practice my scales. And 0:24:36.840 --> 0:24:39.479 I'm like wait a minute, you practice your scales at 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.480 six in the morning. He's like, yeah, every day I 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.119 wake up like five, six in the morning, do my 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.679 scales for about four hours. I do breakfast and da 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:49.120 da da da, Then I do another five hours. We're 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:50.920 in my tonal thing and I'm like, wait a minute, 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:51.640 how many hours. 0:24:51.480 --> 0:24:52.400 A day do you practice? 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:56.600 And he's kicking it, like seventy He's like sometimes ten 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:57.280 eleven hours. 0:24:57.359 --> 0:24:59.440 I'm like to this day. He's like, yes, to this day. 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:05.000 And then like his gigging starts, you know, after that 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.399 eleven hours, and you know, I kind of stuck to 0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:11.040 that sort of that religious and that was like back 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:13.639 in eighty seven eighty eight, and like you know, you 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:14.400 know it's doing. 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:15.760 Like a master class with him or something. 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.240 But then, you know, I would ask every musician that 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.200 I knew, like how often do you practice? And they'd 0:25:22.240 --> 0:25:27.679 be like whatever, like two three at the most. It 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:29.639 was making me think that that whole thing was just 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:33.800 a myth, like the idea of the musician. Ernie Issley 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:39.000 has a similar story about when when Jimmy HENDRICKX used 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.560 to live with the Isisley Brothers over in Jersey, how 0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:47.280 Jimmy would wake up every morning to practice his scales 0:25:48.440 --> 0:25:50.560 four point thirty five in the morning, and Ernie would 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:53.800 just sit in the closet and watch Jimmy for like 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:55.840 two to three hours practicing these scales. 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:57.440 And then that's basically how. 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:02.920 You known, in my opinion, you know, kind of earned 0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:06.520 that baton from Jimmy Hendricks. But yeah, I just want 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.080 to thank you for at least not making me feel foolish, 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:12.200 because every time I ask about practice or on the show, 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.440 every guest is like whatever. 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:18.000 So you know, it's an interesting thing because I think 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:21.960 every musician has a wildly different path, as we all 0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:25.080 do as individuals from everybody else. I mean, everybody's kind 0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:29.960 of got their own physical thing and their own whatever 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:34.560 I mean, And being a musician also is so unique 0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:36.880 to each person. I mean, what this guy wants to do, 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:39.520 what that guy? I mean, everybody's got their own path. 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:44.480 And you know, at the same time, I think that 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:49.200 like I'm sure you know, we've both known people who 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:53.720 were just at very young age is incredibly good, like 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:56.440 they could just kind of do it, and man, that's 0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:59.719 a tough that's like it's almost one of the worst 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:00.560 things I think. 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:04.240 That can happen to something handicapped to be like a 0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:09.080 super person because it throws you off, you know, it 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:11.440 gives you, it gives you kind of the wrong idea. 0:27:12.040 --> 0:27:14.399 And I mean a lot of people can skate maybe 0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:19.639 their entire career that way. But you know, to me, 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:22.159 the guys that I you know, maybe that list of 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.520 names that I read off, like Gary Burton's a great 0:27:25.520 --> 0:27:28.360 example of this. He I think was in fact, I'm 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:32.760 sure he was like this ridiculous prodigy guy, but he 0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:36.679 also took it really seriously. And I don't know that 0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:39.840 his version of practicing would be what you and I 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:44.159 would talk about as practicing. But you know, I mean 0:27:44.200 --> 0:27:46.680 there are people who I think. I mean, Mike Brecker, 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.000 you know, he could he I remember seeing him near 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:52.960 the end of his life and he was like quiet, 0:27:53.000 --> 0:27:55.919 and he was like practicing, you know. I mean, you know, 0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.119 it's like it. I think it can show up in 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:01.280 a lot of different forms. I will add in in 0:28:01.320 --> 0:28:04.199 my case, I don't ever feel like I'm practicing. I 0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:07.160 always feel like I'm just playing. And when I practice, 0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.800 I take a tune that maybe I don't know as 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:12.280 well as I wish I did, and you know, I 0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:15.359 just start playing it. And I try to play it fast. 0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:17.080 I try to play it slow. I try to play 0:28:17.080 --> 0:28:20.199 it in all twelve keys. I try to really know 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:24.000 what makes that tune that tune. And that's hard. I mean, 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:25.919 you know, I can still take tunes that I've been 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:31.080 playing all these years and play them, and as I'm 0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:34.600 playing them, I'm discovering first of all, what I can 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:37.080 do and what I can't do, and what I work 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:40.520 on is what I can't do. It's like, I don't 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:42.520 do what I can do. I work on what I 0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:45.800 can't do. So if I start hearing something and I 0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:48.280 can't really do that, it's like, Okay, I need to 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:51.040 work on that, and I'm less. Times I hear people 0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:53.360 and they're practicing, but they're just playing stuff they can 0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:56.360 already play. I try to play what I can't play. 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.720 Is that what the improvising is working on. 0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:07.680 Worms there by the way we're improvising right now, and 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:12.360 we're using our language. We all have a relationship to 0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:15.800 English that allows us to just do our thing without 0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:18.920 really worrying too much about verbs and nouns and pronouns, 0:29:19.200 --> 0:29:21.239 you know, or what your tongue is doing while you're 0:29:21.520 --> 0:29:24.120 you're just doing it. You're just doing we're improvising, And 0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:28.520 I mean that's essentially you know what what this thing is. 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:32.000 You know, being a musician in this realm is to 0:29:32.080 --> 0:29:34.400 be able to just talk about whatever you want to 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:38.840 talk about and not get hung up with the mechanics 0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:39.200 of it. 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:43.920 Let me ask for okay, So I think I've shared 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:48.560 this story before. George Clinton once famously joked, you know, 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:54.160 Prince Prince often had a big reputation for overpracticing. You 0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:59.040 know again that ten am, I'll find you. If you're late, 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:01.400 We're going to do the same riff five hours in 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:03.280 a row until we get it right, that sort of thing. 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.640 And George Clinton used to tease that Prince is the 0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:10.040 only cat that he knew that could practice his spontaneity. 0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:16.000 And you know, I know how big you are on improvisation, 0:30:17.040 --> 0:30:22.520 And sometimes even when I'm rehearsing with my guys, sometimes 0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:24.320 I want to save that energy for the stage. 0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:27.000 Like I know that there's a certain. 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:31.040 Type of energy and excitement that happens at our shows, 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:35.120 in particular that I often worry we might give away 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.560 in soundcheck, you know, and I kind of want to, like, all. 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:40.960 Right, all right, save it for the show. Save that 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:42.600 energy for a show, don't don't go there. 0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:44.600 And get that right, and we shoot the ship before 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:48.640 the show, save it for the show, and you know, well, 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:53.760 you're you're actually I'm wondering, okay. So when I spoke 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:56.760 to uh when we did Bobby McFerrin on the show, 0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:01.880 you know, he said that, you know, that's his greatest thrill, like, 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:04.560 you know, not to do too much beforehand, but like 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:09.760 he considers that I'm practicing on the stage. But because 0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:14.680 I know you're so big into improvisation and whatnot, do 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:20.920 you ever worry about overpracticing before you even get to. 0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.200 Present it to whatever show you're doing that night. 0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.360 You know, there are a couple of cliches that are 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:31.840 really effective, really useful, and I found it be really true, 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:38.160 and that one about you know, luck or whatever. Success 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:42.800 is where prepar preparation meets opportunity. To me, that's like 0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.800 a key one. And the way that applies to this 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:53.040 discussion is, you know, knowing kind of as much as 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:57.240 I can know about the possibilities of what a situation 0:31:57.400 --> 0:32:00.120 might entail. I mean that may be the band and 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:05.040 the music, the you know whatever, there's infinite variations. As 0:32:05.080 --> 0:32:09.280 much as I can be prepared for those things, the 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:12.680 more fun I'm going to have. And so for me, 0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:19.720 the goal in fact is I mean spontaneity, improvisation, professional improviser. 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:23.040 You know, we're kind of circling around the job description 0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:27.280 in a way, and what that involves for me then 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:30.800 is to be really ready. I mean, I'm like, you know, 0:32:31.040 --> 0:32:37.320 kind of you know, I really strongly enforce that sound 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:41.080 checks are I don't want to hear anybody really try 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:44.960 to play anything, and I'm like the save it for 0:32:45.080 --> 0:32:50.320 the gig cham like do not do not jam, do 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:55.920 not do anything, you know, like just make sure and 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:58.760 kind of I have I usually come up with like 0:32:58.960 --> 0:33:03.160 one section of something that we can play that we 0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:05.960 can play it for twenty minutes, because it can take 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:08.600 a while for this kind of music to settle into 0:33:08.640 --> 0:33:10.920 the hall, and you know, I want to give the 0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:14.600 sound guy a chance to do his best too. And 0:33:14.640 --> 0:33:17.920 there's a way for me of improvising where it's sort 0:33:17.960 --> 0:33:21.800 of like I'm going to just kind of hang in 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:26.400 the zone of the fundamentals that it's kind of improvising, 0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:28.600 but I don't really have to think about it too much, 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:31.280 and there's a kind of warming up because The physical 0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:35.680 thing of playing for me is I could say almost challenging. 0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:38.600 I mean, I'm not a natural guitar player in a 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:41.160 lot of ways, so I really do have to warm 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.480 up for a couple hours, and during that period of time, 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:49.120 I'm trying not to play any quote unquote music. But 0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:52.480 I have kind of developed these things where I can 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:57.680 sort of invent they almost like unfold on themselves. Like 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.480 I'll start in a key and then I'll say, Okay, 0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:02.280 now I'm going to take that and I'm going to 0:34:02.360 --> 0:34:05.920 move it through uh you know, the cycle of fifths 0:34:05.960 --> 0:34:09.360 backwards or something like that. So I'm not really thinking, 0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:12.879 I'm not thinking about it. I'm just doing something that's 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:16.200 going to get the mechanics working, that's also doing the 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:20.279 whatever those brain connections are that you want to have 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:23.160 where you have an idea and you can get to 0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:28.800 it within you know, sub millisecond, uh, you know response time. 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:31.799 And you know the best thing for me too, also 0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:34.440 is if I can go all day without talking and 0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:38.319 really I don't eat before a gig, I really get 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.640 into like this thing because for me, the gig is 0:34:41.640 --> 0:34:45.799 is the that's church, you know, that's the destination. I know, 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:48.200 records are a thing, you know, and there were all 0:34:48.239 --> 0:34:50.759 those years like, Okay, you got to go out on 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.160 the road to promote your record, and I'm like, really, 0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:55.759 I to me, it's like you make a record, so 0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:58.520 when you show up in Peoria, somebody might come to 0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:01.080 the gig because they've heard your name, you know. To me, 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:03.520 it was always the records where they add to get 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:06.560 people to come to the gig, because the gig is it. 0:35:06.920 --> 0:35:09.719 And that's still the case for me, which kind of 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.640 fits right now in the world of gigs and T shirts, 0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:16.040 you know, because that's really what we are, right so, 0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:19.200 you know. And I you know, I did kind of 0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.640 get into making records there, you know. I mean I 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.440 got better at it, I think, and took it a 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:28.040 lot more seriously as time went on. But to me, 0:35:28.120 --> 0:35:30.840 the gig is that's it. You know, it's all headed 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:34.080 for the gigs. So if I can really, you know, 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:37.320 do the things that I know will help me get 0:35:37.440 --> 0:35:41.520 ready for that moment, and then that moment does take 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:44.960 on this sort of significance as this is what it's 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.279 all been leading to, you know. I mean from the 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:50.239 time I heard four and more, you know, it's like 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.520 everything has been leading to this moment, and also this 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.400 may be the last time I ever play, And in fact, 0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:58.920 the last time I ever played was Auckland, New Zealand, 0:35:59.320 --> 0:36:03.560 the first week of March last year. Yeah, you know, 0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:05.400 I didn't know at that time. Gee, that was the 0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:06.800 last time I'm going to play for a year and 0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:08.680 a half. So I'm kind of glad I play like 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:09.719 that because that was it. 0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:14.320 Yeah, so you've not been on a stage since and 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:16.280 now got. 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:17.919 Some gigs coming up. Man, I hope. 0:36:17.960 --> 0:36:21.360 How is this the longest that you went concurrently without 0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:22.719 being on stage. 0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:27.080 This is the longest I've been in one place since 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:29.640 high school. It's the first time I've brought out a 0:36:29.680 --> 0:36:35.680 window and seen you know, spring, summer, fall, winter, spring, 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.040 summer from one point of view, and I have to 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:41.480 say it's been fantastic. I've really enjoyed that. And the 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:44.440 best part for me that the headline is nobody in 0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:49.080 my immediate circle died, you know, and so many of 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:53.160 people in our community have been hit so hard. I mean, 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:55.799 not to mention just the new gig thing, but I mean, man, 0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:58.160 I mean, you and I both know a bunch of 0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:00.920 people who are not here right now should be because 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:04.800 of this stuff. So yeah, it's been rough in that respect, 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:07.839 but you know, at this point in life, I've done 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:11.120 a lot of gigs, so that's great. And also it's 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:13.520 kind of been interesting for me to kind of look 0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:14.480 out the window a bit. 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:17.480 The first time I think I saw your name and 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.279 credits was on this Joni Mitchell album called Shadows and 0:37:20.360 --> 0:37:23.359 Light nineteen eighty. It's a live album from a tour 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:27.160 that you did with Jocko. I believe Pastorius was in 0:37:27.160 --> 0:37:30.360 that band as well, Yes, and Joony obviously. Can you 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:32.600 tell us any memories of that time period playing with 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:34.480 Jocko and Joni and that tour. 0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:38.719 Well, you know that, I mean, Jocko was, like, you know, 0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:45.120 one of my closest friends, years before anybody knew who 0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:50.680 either one of us were, and you know, our careers 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.080 or whatever you want to call it, parallel to each 0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:57.560 other chronologically in a pretty significant way. In fact, before 0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:01.160 years before the Jony thing, Jocko it on my first record. 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:04.680 He and I both kind of made our recording debuts 0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:08.600 together without even knowing that's what we were doing. We 0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:11.319 thought we were rehearsing with Paul Blaye, one of the 0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:12.840 greatest piano players ever. 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:14.400 I was going to say, how did that happen? 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.719 You accidentally made a record with zachopistor is not knowing it? 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.120 Well, you know, Paul was a trip. I don't you know, 0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:26.479 I don't know how much y'all know about. 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:26.799 Yeah. 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.560 That was my next question was if you could tell 0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:30.680 our viewers about Paul. 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:34.760 Well, Paul changed music a couple of times. 0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:36.719 Is it Liar Blaye Blaye? 0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:39.680 And I mean you know Carla Blay. 0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:41.399 Yeah, yeah, well he was married. 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:42.520 That is why. 0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:45.680 Oh okay, see I have a whole relationship with Carla 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:48.560 Blay is oh yeah, hip hop samples but good. 0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:52.680 Yeah, well Paul was. I mean, you know, I could 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:55.319 talk for Paul about Paul for forty five minutes, so 0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:58.680 I'll just leave it, you know. I mean, if you 0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:01.759 ever listened to a record Footloose, which was made in 0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:06.160 the early sixties, Pete Laroca playing drums, Swallow playing bass, 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:09.359 I mean that changed everything. There's a solo that Paul 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:13.399 plays on a Sonny Rollins record where he called where 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:18.759 he plays with Sonny and Coleman Hawkins and they play 0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:20.920 all the things you are and Paul solo on that 0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:24.440 like just revolutionized everything. And you can even go back 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:27.920 to like nineteen fifty six. So Paul was a heavy 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:33.759 cat and also unusual person. So you know, we were 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.680 asked to go to this rehearsal studio we thought, which 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:39.800 was a recording studio actually, and there were mics and stuff, 0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:42.160 but you know, we were both pretty green, to tell 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.000 you the truth. And so we were playing and Paul 0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:48.000 had not really let us improvise much. We would just 0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:50.399 play the heads over and over again to all these 0:39:50.840 --> 0:39:54.400 hip Carlo Blay tunes and some more Net tunes, and 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:58.040 then suddenly we were like playing and I was like, wow, 0:39:58.080 --> 0:40:02.040 this is great, but the John Jaco sounds fantastic on 0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.440 this record. Paul that the night before had heard some 0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:10.520 rock band and had decided that I should play through 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:14.640 a stack of marshals, and he'd rented a wah wah pedal, 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:19.960 a Morley wah wah pedal guitar player would it's like 0:40:20.640 --> 0:40:24.279 a fate worse than death, you know, And even with 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:26.839 a good wah wah pedal, that was not really where 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:29.960 I was at particularly right then. So basically you hear 0:40:30.040 --> 0:40:32.440 Jocko sounding good on that record and then kind of 0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:39.840 off in the distance here and that's me. But yeah, 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:43.319 so that was nineteen seventy four, and then we made 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:47.440 Bright Seize Life my record in nineteen seventy five, and 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:50.480 we played a lot. Is that that trio with Bob Moses, 0:40:50.640 --> 0:40:54.719 the Bright Size Life trio, you know, And that's so 0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:59.279 that's several years before the Jony thing. And in the meantime, 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:03.239 so after Bryce Eie's Life, Jocko became Jocko because at 0:41:03.239 --> 0:41:05.279 the time I did Bryce Eie's Life, I had to like, 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.200 why would you want to use so and so and 0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:10.360 so and so when you've got this what's that bass 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.279 player's name that you use? I was like, yeah, Gary, 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:15.759 you're probably right we should do and Moses was like, 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:18.960 you're crazy if you don't use Jocko, you know. So 0:41:19.080 --> 0:41:22.240 that was the band for Bryceie's Life. And then Jocko 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:25.160 joined Weather Report shortly after that, and honestly, he and 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:30.080 I went in very, very different directions in terms of lifestyle. 0:41:30.200 --> 0:41:33.480 Jocko was the only guy I'd ever known, you know, 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:36.680 kind of around that time who was as straight as 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:39.239 I was. And you know, the first time I saw 0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:42.120 him with Joe's Amnell, that was a different dude, and 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.239 he remained a different dude. And we were always tight, 0:41:45.640 --> 0:41:50.719 and you know, I had gone different directions, but he 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:52.520 called me in the middle of the night one night 0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:54.439 and said, I'm going to put together a string band 0:41:54.520 --> 0:41:59.440 for Jonie. I want you to be in it. I'm like, okay, cool, 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:01.720 And so it was going to be me and Joni 0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:07.920 and Jocko and Alex Akunya playing hand percussion, I think, 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:10.760 and then I you know, I saw I'm like, wow, 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:12.759 this is a different level because at that point I 0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.040 was still like driving around in the van. I put 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.440 like one hundred and fifty thousand miles or something on 0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:20.719 a van with my band where we would play, you know, 0:42:21.120 --> 0:42:24.399 every two hundred dollars gig. We could play for three 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:28.120 years in there. And so suddenly it's like lear Jets 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:31.400 and you know, it's a real culture shock, you know, 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:35.600 for me. But you know, it was an interesting experience. 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.279 The rest of the band was Mike Brecker Uh and 0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:45.280 Don Olias and then you know, Joni had just gotten 0:42:45.280 --> 0:42:47.920 an electric guitar for the first time and had like 0:42:48.160 --> 0:42:53.280 nine George Benson model and the guitars all tuned different, 0:42:53.480 --> 0:43:01.760 and it was you know, it was an interesting experience. Okay, 0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:05.239 the best part was here in Joni at the end 0:43:05.239 --> 0:43:08.040 when she would do a couple tunes solo, because honestly, 0:43:08.120 --> 0:43:12.080 to me, you know, we it did. You know, she 0:43:12.120 --> 0:43:15.600 didn't need that, you know, she was she was Joni, 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:17.960 you know, and and to me, her best thing was 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:20.960 always sitting there and playing the guitar or the piano 0:43:21.120 --> 0:43:21.560 or whatever. 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:24.600 You know, So you didn't like her for a raison 0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:28.000 to the jazz world that you know, like the stuff 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:28.600 she did with me. 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:33.600 In terms of phrasing, she's she's incredible, man, you know, 0:43:34.000 --> 0:43:36.080 I mean, to me, there there are you know again 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.880 we're back to this. How like what are we going 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:43.239 to talk about in terms of style? You know, I mean, man, 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:46.560 you know there are some singers like there's some I mean, 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:48.800 Dolly pardon man, I mean you want to talk about 0:43:48.840 --> 0:43:52.319 phrasing or Dion Warwick or you know. I mean to me, 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:55.839 it's like, yeah, and Billy Holliday. You know, there's a 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:59.080 Karen Carpenter. You know. To me that I think about 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:02.799 people who can really make the melody be the malady, 0:44:02.880 --> 0:44:06.160 you know, And I'm not thinking, oh, well, now she's 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:11.200 she's folk, jazz, country. You know, it's just music, you know, 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:17.120 and you know, singers in general, I think we all 0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:20.719 listen to to learn from how to how to do 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:24.600 that that thing, you know, and Johnny is amazing, you know, 0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:25.520 she's incredible. 0:44:26.000 --> 0:44:29.080 I want to ask you about just your working relationship 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.760 with Alau Mays, you know, who passed, you know, recently. 0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:34.360 He was just somebody that you know, you just seem 0:44:34.360 --> 0:44:37.600 to have just an amazing creative partnership with. Uh, how 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:39.760 did you guys meet and what was what's your story 0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:41.440 with him? 0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:45.000 Man, it's tough now because it's like, God, there's he said, 0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:49.800 there's Lyle, and there's Charlie, Mike Brecker, you know, Billy Higgins, 0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:53.520 I mentioned Dewey Redman. I mean, man, these are the guys. 0:44:53.760 --> 0:44:56.719 I mean, not only did we live this musical life 0:44:56.800 --> 0:44:59.400 together and each one is so deep and rich and 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.120 very they were like I mean, man, Lyle and I 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:04.840 grew up together. Literally, I mean, you know, we knew 0:45:04.840 --> 0:45:07.960 each other when we were you know, basically just out 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:12.400 of being teenagers. And you know, it's just so far 0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:16.000 beyond what I can even say, you know. I mean, 0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:18.759 the good thing is that there's those records, and those 0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:24.439 records say a lot, you know, and yeah, it's tough, man. 0:45:24.960 --> 0:45:27.560 And then I think about like Roy Haynes, who's ninety. 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:29.720 So that's what I was about to ask you about, 0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:32.000 because I was given the assignment by my father, who's 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:34.520 a student of Roy Haynes, to ask you about that relationship. 0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:36.840 And you already said earlier that you were listening to 0:45:36.960 --> 0:45:39.359 Roy when you were a young kid. So the fact 0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:42.399 that you guys did a record together, like, can you yeah, 0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:43.080 talk about it? 0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:47.760 Please? Man, I could talk about Roy for the whole time. 0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:51.480 To me that you know, he's still good, he's still amazing, 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:53.200 he's still killing. 0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:57.400 He's killing and yeah, I mean it's been now, I 0:45:57.400 --> 0:45:59.680 think a couple of years since I usually try to 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:02.440 go down during his birthday and play at the Blue 0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:04.560 Note with him. I think the last time I did it, 0:46:04.560 --> 0:46:08.200 he had turned ninety three, so he must be ninety 0:46:08.280 --> 0:46:12.799 five or something. It's still playing. Oh my man. You 0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:16.960 know to me that the drum thing is central and 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:19.840 drummers love to hear me say this, but it's the truth. 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:23.200 Whoever the drummer is is the leader. It doesn't matter 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:26.600 whose name is on the marquee, it's the drummer's band. 0:46:27.280 --> 0:46:31.440 And I have been so lucky to play, starting in 0:46:31.520 --> 0:46:36.080 Kansas City with some of the greatest drummers of this 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:40.120 period of time. And you know, to me, the Roy 0:46:40.239 --> 0:46:44.400 thing as it sort of unfolded throughout the fifties, I 0:46:44.400 --> 0:46:47.600 always point to We three this, it's a famous record 0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:51.520 with Roy and Phineas Newborn and Paul Chambers. To me 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:54.879 that one, you know, the sound of Roy is the 0:46:54.920 --> 0:46:58.640 sound of modern drumming. I mean, to this day, when 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:03.799 I play with Roy, that's it. That's it, that's that's 0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:07.040 in a cole of everything. You just listen to this, 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:07.480 This is great. 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:09.960 Yeah, let me let me ask for you. 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.359 And I know this might be blasphemous, being as though 0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:18.160 you know you've done sort of long term work with 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:20.959 with your band well In and now the Pat mctheny group, 0:47:21.040 --> 0:47:25.280 But who would be kind of your all star lineup? 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:28.000 Like if I were to sign you and say, okay, 0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:30.520 in twenty twenty two, you're going to go out and 0:47:30.560 --> 0:47:33.239 tour the world. You get to put your all star 0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:37.200 lineup together. Who's on drums, who's on keys, Who's who's 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.480 uh on bass, who's on percussion? 0:47:41.520 --> 0:47:45.960 You know? I mean, honestly, I know that my thing 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:50.520 is kind of there's like these partisan things like oh, well, 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.360 you know, it's really, man, it's just the group. You 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:54.160 got to check out the group, so that other stuff, 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:58.000 you know, that's really the only cool stuff all areas now. 0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:00.600 Or you got to check out the tree, you know. 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.439 I mean, the thing from my standpoint is that it's 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:09.600 not divided, and I have to take some responsibility for that, 0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:14.240 because I kind of got maybe too good at sort 0:48:14.239 --> 0:48:16.560 of like, Okay, this is the Patmatheni group, and this 0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:19.520 is the Patmathini trio, and this is it. And you know, 0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:20.520 people didn't. 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:21.279 Do that back then. 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:25.040 You know, that was kind of a new thing to 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.000 have all these different bands and sort of present yourselves 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:30.880 in different ways. For me, they're all the Pat Metheny 0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:33.960 group because they all acted the same way. It was. 0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:36.000 You know, I'm going to write ninety percent of the 0:48:36.040 --> 0:48:39.120 notes we're gonna play, and we're gonna rehearse, and we're 0:48:39.120 --> 0:48:42.279 gonna you know, it's like it didn't really matter if 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.719 you look and this is a cop out answer to 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:49.080 your exact question, if you look at the list of 0:48:49.200 --> 0:48:52.000 names of people that I have played with, those are 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:56.759 my favorite musicians. And you know, but I include in 0:48:56.800 --> 0:49:01.680 that Kenny Garrett, Josh Redman, you know, Mike Brecker, you know, 0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:05.400 those guys, Herbie. You know, I've been really lucky to 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:08.920 be able to say, you know, man, I you know, 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:11.680 I just did a due ad tour with Ron Carter. Man. 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:15.680 I mean it's like, you know, you know, those guys 0:49:15.719 --> 0:49:19.280 are my heroes, man, and everybody I play with, including 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:22.240 the new cast. Joe Dyson is my hero right now. 0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:24.719 You know, he's a new drummer on the scene from 0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:28.840 New Orleans. Man, this guy is everything I'm talking about, 0:49:29.000 --> 0:49:33.680 you know. So you know it's like to me, to me, 0:49:33.800 --> 0:49:36.759 it's one, you know, my thing. I see it as 0:49:36.920 --> 0:49:39.719 one thing, and you know, I'm just glad to be 0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:41.520 a part of all of it. Man, I just feel 0:49:41.600 --> 0:49:43.319 lucky to be in it, you know. 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:46.360 Only because you mentioned it, I kind of have to 0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:48.680 go there. Okay. So I don't even know if you're 0:49:48.680 --> 0:49:49.200 aware that. 0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:50.920 We were. 0:49:51.040 --> 0:49:52.560 We were quasi label meets. 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:55.600 I mean, your period of Geffen I think ended right 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:59.960 when I started with Geffen, which instantly meant you know, 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:04.080 that first year rating the closet was just awesome. Like 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:08.160 you know, it's like your first ben shopping is hiding 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:10.400 in the going in the closet of your record label 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:11.160 and taking. 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:18.160 All the CDs. So that said, you mentioned zero tolerance 0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:18.800 for Silence. 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:24.160 Okay, so from from my point of view, definitely coming 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:26.200 from a standpoint of hip hop, which I think our 0:50:26.320 --> 0:50:31.279 ears are built way different than anyone else. For me, 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:37.640 that album was is always my go to record because 0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:43.680 of your shrill noises, you know, like it's literally just 0:50:43.719 --> 0:50:49.200 an entire album of textures and solo noises that can 0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:53.840 lead to other ideas. So whereas you know, of course, 0:50:54.400 --> 0:50:57.440 you know, I guess if you're talking about your cannon 0:50:58.719 --> 0:51:03.440 for the most part, you know, maybe zero Talents for 0:51:03.560 --> 0:51:07.440 Silence would be kind of considered. You're on the corner 0:51:08.160 --> 0:51:10.839 like an album that was immediately met with indifference and 0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:16.320 anger from the jazz guard whoever, Robert Christa Gower, whoever, 0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:20.879 the critic of the moment is. But for you though, 0:51:21.000 --> 0:51:24.840 I mean now that decades have passed, like what is 0:51:24.880 --> 0:51:28.239 your relationship? What was your feeling with the record when 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:34.720 you turned it in and you know, three decades after 0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:37.040 the fact, what is your your feelings on that? Because 0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:40.399 there was also speculation that you pulled to Neil Young. 0:51:40.520 --> 0:51:43.640 Neil Young also famously wanted to get off Geffen, And 0:51:44.320 --> 0:51:45.800 you know, I'm giving you. 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:50.160 That kind of I have to say I rarely get 0:51:50.280 --> 0:51:51.439 pissed off and stuff at. 0:51:51.320 --> 0:51:55.000 That because it was like, oh they thought, you see, 0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:57.160 you heard the rumors of that, you throwaware. 0:51:57.440 --> 0:52:00.799 I mean, there was some guy who wrote something to 0:52:00.840 --> 0:52:02.799 that effect and it's some magazine and. 0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:05.040 That was only because Neil Young did it with trans 0:52:05.160 --> 0:52:07.520 and people thought, you know, like what, Neil Young's doing 0:52:07.640 --> 0:52:09.480 a craft work record. Now he's trying to get off 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:12.799 the label like that sort of thing. Or so, yeah, 0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:17.640 what were your feelings on its reception and time since then? 0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:21.759 You know my feelings about that well, and also have 0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:24.080 to preface it. And I don't know about you, but 0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:28.520 most it seems like many, if not most musicians never 0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:31.719 ever listen to their own records ever again after they're 0:52:31.840 --> 0:52:36.279 finally mastered, after they've heard it for six months and 0:52:36.840 --> 0:52:39.520 have a jest about whether it should be point two 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:43.520 dB at niney k. You know all that stuff that 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:44.160 we all do. 0:52:44.280 --> 0:52:47.040 You know, you don't listen to see if it's aged well. 0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:49.560 Like I don't like listening to my records personally, but 0:52:50.120 --> 0:52:52.319 when I'm making a new record, I will go back 0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:55.120 to the other roots records to see it is his 0:52:55.280 --> 0:52:58.320 age well or not so yeah, maybe. 0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:02.440 I should try that sometimes. I mean no, I mean, 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:04.759 you know, every now and then, though I do, I 0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:08.000 have to say I hear something and I don't recognize 0:53:08.040 --> 0:53:11.120 that it's me, and usually I go, well, that sounds 0:53:11.120 --> 0:53:11.640 pretty good. 0:53:11.920 --> 0:53:13.760 Who's that? 0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:18.640 Scribe It's rare that I hear something and I go, 0:53:20.080 --> 0:53:23.239 what is that? Oh my god, that's me. So, you know, 0:53:23.560 --> 0:53:27.560 generally speaking, I would say, you know, my sense is that, 0:53:28.560 --> 0:53:31.920 like I was saying before, it's this one long story 0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:35.799 with these different chapters that represented different periods, but it's 0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:40.600 this continuous thing. But specific to what you're talking about here, 0:53:40.840 --> 0:53:43.480 I mean that that was a period for me. You know, 0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:46.200 as I've referenced a couple of times, I grew up 0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:51.040 in a kind of open spaces kind of environment. You know, 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:56.719 there were lots of trees and then a field and 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:59.880 then another tree. So so kind of like the idea 0:53:59.920 --> 0:54:04.919 of spaciousness was something that was built into my thing, 0:54:05.480 --> 0:54:07.960 and I carry it with me now. I mean, I've 0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:11.640 got this seventeen years of quiet that I can always 0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:16.640 go to. But my life after the time I left 0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:21.879 Missouri was like man, intense, dense, packed, and it's been 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.759 packed ever since. I mean, you know. I mean, I'm 0:54:25.800 --> 0:54:28.600 on the road like more than most people live in 0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:33.560 New York City, you know, international family. It's an intense 0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:37.720 life and the natural thing for me, and it maybe 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:41.120 hit a pinnacle around that time was the record Secret Story, 0:54:41.640 --> 0:54:45.160 which was done just at the same time basically as 0:54:45.239 --> 0:54:48.600 Zero Tolerance. And the idea that I had at that 0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:51.719 moment in time was I had lots of these sort 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:56.719 of images of things that had open canvas, and I 0:54:56.760 --> 0:55:01.319 wanted to fill up the entire canvas. Secret Story does that, 0:55:02.200 --> 0:55:05.480 and Zero Tolerance for Silence does that in a different way, 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:09.400 and that's kind of my sense of it. There was 0:55:09.440 --> 0:55:15.040 a really great description given to me by a and 0:55:15.640 --> 0:55:18.480 around the time of those two records, and said, you know, 0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:21.239 Secret Story is like a painting and there's a river 0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:26.520 in the painting and it's beautiful. Yeah, that's right, that's 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:29.279 the river. And that's kind of the way I see 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:32.280 it too. I didn't know it, but yeah. 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:38.480 She was right. I just thought about something. 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:41.279 You know, at the time, in the first part of 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:47.080 your career, you were on em Records as well, Yeah, 0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:52.840 which is a highly trusted label. However, you made the 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:57.239 move to Geffen and it's almost like, I almost feel 0:55:57.239 --> 0:55:59.040 like we're in the same boat, because if you're a 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:03.399 non rocket at often questions I got was like, why 0:56:03.560 --> 0:56:07.680 even risk it going to a label and really not 0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:13.319 built to promote you or whatnot? So what was what 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:17.520 was the unusual choice of going to Geffen Records? 0:56:17.920 --> 0:56:21.040 Well, you know, honestly, you're right. I started on ECM. 0:56:21.080 --> 0:56:24.719 I did eleven records at ECM. 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:27.280 Which Travels I really loved. I wanted to say Travels. 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:30.280 I love this that album, man, beautiful record one. 0:56:30.120 --> 0:56:34.480 That I still you know, if people want one record 0:56:34.520 --> 0:56:37.120 of that era, I say, get Travels because that's got 0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:41.720 a lot of information on it. But you know, after 0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:45.319 my eleven records or the ECM, they were all done 0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:48.120 in the classic form. You get two days record, a 0:56:48.200 --> 0:56:51.680 data mix. By however it came out, that's your record, 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:54.399 and that's it. And I mean, you know, that's a 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:56.960 viable way to make music. I mean, you know I 0:56:57.320 --> 0:56:59.400 would still make a record like that now for a 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.359 certain kind of thing. You're doing a documentary, you're doing 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:04.960 a documentary record. You're getting a bunch of guys, You've 0:57:05.000 --> 0:57:07.000 got some tunes, You're going to play him a couple 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:08.880 of times. You're going to pick the best take, maybe 0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:12.400 do an edit. We didn't do fixes back then, maybe 0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:16.760 one or two barely, but you know, and that's it. 0:57:17.000 --> 0:57:22.680 And you know, I did my best under those, you know, auspices, 0:57:22.720 --> 0:57:25.360 and I'm to this day grateful to have had the 0:57:25.480 --> 0:57:30.000 chance to be on that label during an incredibly fertile 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:32.760 period for that label. I mean, it was still kind 0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:35.320 of emerging. I mean I was within the first hundred 0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:37.040 ECM records. 0:57:37.080 --> 0:57:40.400 A couple of times, I think I can I interject, 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:42.400 and I don't want to interrupt the answer to the 0:57:42.720 --> 0:57:45.640 why I go to Geffrine question. But since we're right 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:50.320 here at ECM and I just wanted for our listeners 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:53.640 to hear the name Manfred Iiker, So can you tell 0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:56.000 us a little bit about him? He's the owner and 0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:58.640 producer of the label and thousands of records. 0:57:58.720 --> 0:58:01.640 Yeah, yeah, he's he's the guy that to this day, 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:04.200 I mean, he's you know, I was in that first 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:08.240 hundred records. I think they're out close to three thousand now, 0:58:08.560 --> 0:58:11.720 and honestly, everybody should hear about two thousand and six 0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:15.040 hundred of them. Yeah, I really know how to make records. 0:58:15.400 --> 0:58:16.920 Yeah, And he. 0:58:16.920 --> 0:58:20.160 And I honestly we never got along. I was a 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:22.720 snotty little kid, and I thought I knew all kinds 0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:26.120 of stuff that I probably didn't know. But you know, 0:58:26.200 --> 0:58:30.120 my snottiness ended up also being kind of a super 0:58:30.240 --> 0:58:33.000 charged engine to do a lot of stuff that probably 0:58:33.600 --> 0:58:37.760 was impossible to do that somehow I did, you know, 0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:41.560 and I'm just here, I am admitting on air that 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:45.920 I was super snotty. Man, that's what, Thank you very much. 0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.760 And we're going to go back to that, yeah, exclusive, 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:52.160 just to finish up the gaff and thing, because ycause 0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:54.040 it is it is kind of an interesting thing. 0:58:54.840 --> 0:58:58.040 So at the time, you know, this was nineteen eighty four, 0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:01.040 I had, you know, had you know, a kind of 0:59:01.040 --> 0:59:06.560 success that honestly, I nobody was more surprised than me 0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:10.720 that we were not selling eight hundred nine hundred records, 0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:15.360 travels and of you know, you know, the records of 0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:17.720 that era, including New Chautauqua, you know, which was a 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:21.320 solo guitar record. They were selling hundreds of thousands of records. 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:24.440 They were on the pop charts. And it wasn't like 0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:26.920 I was trying to do that. The tunes were still 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:31.600 fifteen minutes long. If just we just kind of were 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:36.600 touring constantly, and there were radio stations around that time 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:40.320 that would actually play twelve minute tracks mixed in with 0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:44.200 Fleetwood Mac or whatever else was happening. I mean, there 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:47.080 was a bunch of stuff in the culture that allowed 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:52.040 that to happen. And so I had a certain I 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:58.080 guess viability within the recording industry world that caused the 0:59:58.160 --> 1:00:02.080 moment that me leaving EC. I am a lot of 1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:05.840 interest amongst people, and you know, I'm very fortunate that 1:00:06.040 --> 1:00:09.600 from the very beginning I've been with one agency, Ted 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:14.040 Curland in Boston. We've been together I don't know, forty 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:19.560 whatever years now, and Ted, Yeah, Ted got the message 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:22.640 and and sort of did a thing where he got 1:00:22.640 --> 1:00:25.200 a bunch of companies interested. I was able to start 1:00:25.240 --> 1:00:28.880 my own company, which since then we've licensed to all 1:00:28.920 --> 1:00:33.080 the record companies. I own everything from post ECM on 1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:33.919 thanks to Ted. 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:34.960 Oh wow. 1:00:35.320 --> 1:00:40.400 And among the suitors of that period, David Geffen had 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:43.720 just started his own company and he only had a 1:00:43.920 --> 1:00:51.840 few artists, John Lennon and you know Sharer and Jennifer Yeah, 1:00:51.880 --> 1:00:55.240 I mean, there were just a few, and hired a 1:00:55.280 --> 1:00:59.160 guy Donna Summer. He had hired Gary gersh who's a 1:01:00.320 --> 1:01:02.520 guy who I had known from the work with that 1:01:02.600 --> 1:01:05.040 I had done just prior to that with David Bowie 1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:09.920 ed Em I signed by the way, Yes, yeah exactly, 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:13.240 and Gary came to Geffen as one of the guys. 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:17.720 Gary sort of made a case like, you know this 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:22.560 guy me, it's nobody knows what it is. He's got 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:25.760 a following and you know, we should sign him. And 1:01:25.880 --> 1:01:29.600 David I said, can I meet with David Geffen? Wow? 1:01:30.040 --> 1:01:32.760 They arranged it like sure. So I had lunch with 1:01:32.840 --> 1:01:35.760 David Geffen and he was like, well, it sounds like 1:01:35.800 --> 1:01:37.880 you've got a thing going on. We'd like to have 1:01:37.920 --> 1:01:41.080 you on the label. And they never I think I 1:01:41.120 --> 1:01:44.080 ever heard that Jay were there. You know, they were 1:01:44.200 --> 1:01:46.960 just like, this is a band kind of like guns n' Roses. 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:50.200 We signed this other band, Nirvana. This is a band 1:01:50.280 --> 1:01:52.640 kind of like that band. You know they you know, 1:01:52.720 --> 1:01:54.760 they go out and they play gigs, and they were 1:01:54.840 --> 1:01:58.440 not thinking of it as anything other than music. And 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:02.120 I mean, you know, wow, that's far out, huh. And 1:02:02.440 --> 1:02:04.959 you know I ended up. I think I've got two 1:02:05.080 --> 1:02:08.280 or three gold records from them from that period. 1:02:09.360 --> 1:02:12.440 I was gonna ask, did you ever think of collaborating 1:02:12.480 --> 1:02:17.160 with Kim and Thurston of Sonic Youth. I know that 1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:19.680 was a big fan of yours. 1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:24.080 No, and and uh you know, I mean it's funny because, 1:02:24.320 --> 1:02:26.280 like you say, at the record company, you know, you 1:02:26.320 --> 1:02:28.520 go to the record company and you see everybody else 1:02:28.600 --> 1:02:31.320 is on the label. And I used to see that 1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:34.320 guy from Guns N' Roses like would be leaving as 1:02:34.360 --> 1:02:37.680 I would come in, or you know. I mean, and 1:02:37.720 --> 1:02:39.360 it was cool because it's like we all had the 1:02:39.400 --> 1:02:43.040 same art director. And I remember when they were doing, uh, 1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:46.680 the Nirvana cover, the famous one, because the guy was 1:02:46.720 --> 1:02:49.200 working on one of my covers at the same time, or. 1:02:49.160 --> 1:02:50.280 That same person. 1:02:50.360 --> 1:02:52.000 I mean, you know it. It was all kind of 1:02:52.160 --> 1:02:54.800 in the house there, including Sonic Youth too, Yeah, because 1:02:54.800 --> 1:02:55.960 they were they were in there too. 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:56.480 Yeah. 1:02:56.560 --> 1:02:59.400 I was going to say, yeah, as of today, the 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:05.560 baby from that Enron cover, when the. 1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:09.480 Baby is suing for child pronography charges on Saturday. 1:03:09.760 --> 1:03:11.400 Just just say you need ten bus. 1:03:11.160 --> 1:03:18.480 Man, come on, come on, uh wait, okay, I do 1:03:18.560 --> 1:03:23.480 want to ask, and does anyone from my world, from 1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:25.680 the world of hip hop ever make a big deal 1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:27.120 of letters from home? 1:03:28.120 --> 1:03:32.200 Yes? Yes, without me letting it out the bag. 1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:40.480 You mean like musically, Yeah, see, this is the thing 1:03:40.880 --> 1:03:43.160 I don't I don't want to open up a Pandora's 1:03:43.200 --> 1:03:48.640 box because you own your masters which box, Yes, exactly. 1:03:48.840 --> 1:03:52.320 But but what I'm saying is that again, the hip 1:03:52.320 --> 1:03:56.880 hop world has a way different relationship with you than 1:03:57.720 --> 1:03:59.440 the other words. And you know, I mean that's the 1:03:59.440 --> 1:04:03.000 thing about him, because they'll look at something that the 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.840 average world will ignore and then they'll be like, no, 1:04:07.160 --> 1:04:09.880 but that's the that's the thing over there. So I'm 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:13.919 just curious, like, do any does anyone from the world 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:15.480 of hip hop just ever come. 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:18.080 To you and say, like, yo, let hers from home 1:04:20.880 --> 1:04:27.160 specifically no, next question anyway, you know, I gotta. 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:30.960 Tell you, man, I'm like, you know, I don't hang much. 1:04:31.080 --> 1:04:34.080 You know, I kind of I've gotten away somehow with 1:04:34.280 --> 1:04:38.000 doing my own thing mostly, and I you know, even 1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:42.680 kind of within the circle of musicians that I would 1:04:42.800 --> 1:04:46.600 probably normally be around, right you know, in the you know, 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:49.080 going to Smalls or something, and I do go. Hear 1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:50.800 a lot of people and I go and I kind 1:04:50.800 --> 1:04:53.280 of stand in the back and listen to a couple 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:55.920 of tunes and you know, but all kinds of music. 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.800 But you know, I mean I'm you know, I'm not 1:04:58.960 --> 1:05:01.800 really like in the scene. I mean, I will say 1:05:01.920 --> 1:05:05.040 because I did visit the new power station the other 1:05:05.120 --> 1:05:08.400 day now at Berkeley zoning it, and man, you know 1:05:08.480 --> 1:05:11.880 that was really cool back in those days where yeah, 1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:18.120 I would see uh, you know, you know everybody. You know, like, 1:05:19.760 --> 1:05:21.760 you know, everybody was there all the time. You'd run 1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:25.520 into like you know, Eric Clapton, or you'd run into 1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:28.240 Nita Baker, or you'd run into I mean, everybody was 1:05:28.240 --> 1:05:30.800 there recording all the time, and you'd see everybody, and 1:05:30.840 --> 1:05:32.120 it was in a way, it was kind of a 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:35.600 social way that you would have an encounter with somebody 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:39.320 sort of outside of your you know, normal hang but 1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:41.800 you know, I don't go to clubs or do anything 1:05:41.880 --> 1:05:46.960 like where I would be hanging out. 1:05:48.400 --> 1:05:51.520 The record that the slip Away record that was sample 1:05:51.640 --> 1:05:54.439 it was a song it's called Summer Days by its DJ, 1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:58.640 I think Nick Holder, and so actually crazy thing. I 1:05:58.680 --> 1:06:01.320 did a panel with him, this is probably I mean, god, 1:06:01.320 --> 1:06:04.160 this is seventeen years ago and we were just on 1:06:04.200 --> 1:06:05.760 a panel together and I had never heard any of 1:06:05.800 --> 1:06:09.040 his music. And then afterwards I heard Summer Days and 1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:11.240 I was like, man, this is great. I want to say, 1:06:11.240 --> 1:06:14.240 maybe like a year after that, chilling another one. My 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:15.840 Homi's a big jazz head, and he was like, yo, 1:06:16.120 --> 1:06:18.240 that's so, and so I was like what and then 1:06:18.280 --> 1:06:20.360 he put me on to your break. I was like, oh, 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:22.680 that's that was thing. Like, I had no clue, but 1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:26.080 that was a bridge to, you know, to the rest 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:27.720 of that album, to the I. 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:34.080 Mean, my fundamental kind of feeling about sampling and the 1:06:34.160 --> 1:06:37.400 way that not just my thing, but kind of records 1:06:37.400 --> 1:06:42.120 in general are used in in that realm is very positive. 1:06:42.480 --> 1:06:45.720 I mean to me, it's really related to collage art 1:06:45.920 --> 1:06:49.760 and you know, of course graffiti and all of that stuff, 1:06:49.760 --> 1:06:53.360 which means, you know, that's the language of this moment. 1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:57.680 And so to me it's like I have absolutely no 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:02.640 problem with it, and I love people do stuff, create creatively. 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:05.640 But to me, that was just like, man, that's you're. 1:07:05.480 --> 1:07:11.200 Just The thing is is that you know, people don't 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:13.760 understand like hip hop is at its core, hip hop 1:07:13.840 --> 1:07:18.760 is African music, and African music is repetitive. It's it's 1:07:18.880 --> 1:07:22.080 always a repetition of you know, and I know that 1:07:22.120 --> 1:07:23.720 you come from a world where you got to go 1:07:23.840 --> 1:07:26.160 linear and go in a straight line, like to. 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:27.320 Somewhere else, somewhere else. 1:07:27.360 --> 1:07:30.680 So I initially asked that question if you were aware 1:07:30.800 --> 1:07:34.560 of how much that particular album, let Us from Home 1:07:34.600 --> 1:07:38.320 At sort of been a kind of a creative outlet 1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:41.120 for like a lot of the classic hip hop stuff 1:07:41.120 --> 1:07:43.440 that I grew up on, only because I know that 1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:48.000 you were also like very open and a key developer 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:51.840 in like new technology, like with the cinclavier and with 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:55.200 sampling and and with you know, especially when you start 1:07:55.200 --> 1:07:59.480 at your falcon and Snowman scoring stuff, how you were 1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:06.000 basically kind of using primitive technology that we're using now, 1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:09.320 Like you know, now half the stuff is on our laptop. 1:08:09.560 --> 1:08:13.360 Were you actively advising the Cynclavia people on how to 1:08:13.400 --> 1:08:16.800 build the machine or were you just the first recipient 1:08:16.840 --> 1:08:18.320 to get it and use it? 1:08:18.439 --> 1:08:20.759 And well, we're. 1:08:20.600 --> 1:08:23.040 Going back actually seventy nine for that. 1:08:23.360 --> 1:08:24.880 Oh that's how early. Okay, it was. 1:08:24.840 --> 1:08:29.040 Way before maybe, And yeah, I was out there on 1:08:29.080 --> 1:08:32.760 the bleeding edge of that end. I mean, you know, 1:08:32.880 --> 1:08:36.840 there's all kinds of like sort of shocking you know, 1:08:37.000 --> 1:08:41.360 technological aspects to you know, I mean I remember at 1:08:41.400 --> 1:08:45.519 one point spending five thousand dollars to get a five 1:08:45.720 --> 1:08:53.200 megabyte hard drive five may not gig and we it was. 1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:56.519 It was a megabyte, not even a gig now thousand 1:08:56.520 --> 1:08:57.520 dollars a megabyte. 1:08:59.040 --> 1:09:05.000 It was that maybe yeah, yep, exactly. And not only that, 1:09:05.120 --> 1:09:07.360 it was so fragile it had to have its own 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:13.760 bunk on the bus. Oh wow. And I mean you 1:09:14.000 --> 1:09:16.960 use it live, yeah, I mean, you know it's a 1:09:17.000 --> 1:09:21.679 funny thing because now, of course everybody does all kinds 1:09:21.720 --> 1:09:25.599 of stuff now. So when the sing Leavier came out, 1:09:25.920 --> 1:09:29.479 their ad was this is the last synthesizer you'll ever 1:09:29.560 --> 1:09:34.240 need to buy and uh, and it had several new 1:09:34.320 --> 1:09:38.240 things that just had not existed before. One was FM synthesis, 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:41.200 which this is several years before the dread of d 1:09:41.400 --> 1:09:46.920 X seven came along. And then they were the they 1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:50.639 were you didn't like the patches, well you know they 1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:52.160 probably weren't that patches. 1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:53.360 It, So just be honest. 1:09:53.400 --> 1:09:55.400 In eighty five, were you looking at like, yo, d 1:09:55.560 --> 1:09:56.799 X seven, Man, this is the future? 1:09:57.040 --> 1:09:58.839 Or do you automatically knew it was cheesy? 1:09:59.240 --> 1:10:03.320 No? I knew, man. I mean we can also talk 1:10:03.360 --> 1:10:10.560 about since for hours because I have very strong opinions. 1:10:10.840 --> 1:10:14.240 But you know, man, I mean, you know the thing 1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:20.720 about acoustic instruments, you can't make them hurt you, you know, 1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:26.160 and electric instruments, including guitar, their default is pain. You know. 1:10:26.360 --> 1:10:29.599 It's like you really have to have a concept and 1:10:29.680 --> 1:10:34.439 a vision of sound before you plug it in with 1:10:34.520 --> 1:10:40.479 those instruments because their default is just horrible. And also, 1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:44.080 you know, speakers, we we all think about speak and 1:10:44.160 --> 1:10:46.559 we just we don't even think about speakers anymore. Of course, 1:10:46.600 --> 1:10:49.000 it's gonna come out of a speaker. I mean, man, 1:10:49.120 --> 1:10:53.439 speakers suck, you know, compared to a drum or a guitar, 1:10:53.840 --> 1:10:55.880 I mean, speaker, I don't care if it's the best 1:10:55.880 --> 1:10:58.880 speaker in the world. They're horrible. So it's like you 1:10:59.040 --> 1:11:03.519 have to have an accoustick framework to build electric music 1:11:03.560 --> 1:11:06.200 from in my opinion, and I mean my first act 1:11:06.439 --> 1:11:08.439 was to plug it in. You know, I've been dealing 1:11:08.439 --> 1:11:12.439 with knobs and wires and electricity from day one. That's 1:11:12.479 --> 1:11:15.720 part of the instrument. So all of this stuff, computers 1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:18.479 and everything else, for me, that's part of the acts. 1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:21.240 A big thing for me has always been to get 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:24.240 a good sound and to you know, make it do 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:28.080 at least something that has a reflection in terms of 1:11:28.240 --> 1:11:34.960 orchestration to this incredible tradition of you know, dietonic chromatic 1:11:35.040 --> 1:11:38.080 music that's evolved over the last few hundred years, and 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:43.639 you know kind of also included in that. I would say, yeah, 1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:46.439 there can be abstraction, there can be conflict, there can 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:48.599 be dissonance, there can be all kinds of other stuff. 1:11:49.000 --> 1:11:51.280 But to me, there it requires a certain kind of 1:11:51.280 --> 1:11:55.400 wisdom to make those things really happen. So back to 1:11:55.479 --> 1:11:58.080 the sinclavier. One of the things that it had was 1:11:58.080 --> 1:12:02.880 a sequence there that had never existed commercially before, so 1:12:03.320 --> 1:12:07.760 I could get this thing to play parts that we 1:12:07.920 --> 1:12:10.960 could play with. And I mean, man, that was like 1:12:11.080 --> 1:12:14.400 top secret for twenty years. It's like, you know, we 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:17.759 would hide the single of ear and nobody really knew 1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:20.600 what we were doing or how it was working and 1:12:20.680 --> 1:12:24.000 what was going on. And we kind of successfully managed 1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:27.160 to do that. But I never had a loop. It 1:12:27.280 --> 1:12:31.120 was always something transparent. I was like writing for Cello's, 1:12:31.240 --> 1:12:33.720 writing for French ones, and there was always this thing 1:12:33.720 --> 1:12:36.360 in there. And we almost never had a clique either. 1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:40.200 It was always some music. Yeah, it was always something 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:44.120 musical that you could you could work yourself into so 1:12:44.160 --> 1:12:46.840 that you could get the feel in between the thing 1:12:47.280 --> 1:12:50.080 because to me, that's where the music is too, is 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:53.240 the feel of it. But to me, it's like, if 1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:57.360 there's gonna be a clique, I wanted to rush, you know, 1:12:57.439 --> 1:13:00.840 because all the musicians I love rush. So if there's 1:13:00.880 --> 1:13:03.320 going to be a clip, man, I spend hours with 1:13:03.439 --> 1:13:07.599 the drummer, like working on making it rush and rushing 1:13:07.920 --> 1:13:12.839 we would. I did rushing And some of that probably 1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:15.599 comes from four and More being my first record, because 1:13:15.600 --> 1:13:19.320 they rushing crazy on that. But you know, to me, 1:13:19.479 --> 1:13:22.479 those things it's like tech to me should be in 1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:26.720 the service of the music. I never relinquish anything to 1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:30.000 the tech. I'm always like, come on, man, you know. 1:13:30.360 --> 1:13:33.280 And that goes for the manufacturers too. It's like I'm 1:13:33.320 --> 1:13:35.920 always saying, couldn't you know what if you know that 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:39.760 kind of stuff? But tempo dynamics and I mean, you know, 1:13:39.840 --> 1:13:42.680 the fact that we're still living with MIDI now is 1:13:42.800 --> 1:13:46.240 just a nightmare, man. I mean that that sucked in 1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:50.840 nineteen eighty five, you know, And so for now it's 1:13:50.880 --> 1:13:53.080 like I know, you know James because I know he 1:13:53.120 --> 1:13:55.040 works with you, but I mean he brings in these 1:13:55.600 --> 1:14:00.040 like quirgs from nineteen eighty five and I'm like, no, no, 1:14:01.880 --> 1:14:05.519 I suffered through that shit back then. Man, But you 1:14:05.560 --> 1:14:08.200 know what, he knows what he's doing, so he can 1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:11.400 do whatever he wants. But yeah, I mean stuff kind 1:14:11.400 --> 1:14:13.920 of was you know, it didn't work that well back then, 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:16.639 you know, I mean, yeah, you know. 1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:20.080 How would you because he was so early to adapt 1:14:20.160 --> 1:14:26.439 to that sort of technology in your live show, how 1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:29.360 would you adjust if there were any faux paths or. 1:14:31.600 --> 1:14:32.759 You know, you louse? 1:14:33.200 --> 1:14:35.760 Okay, we lost half the you know, half the programming 1:14:35.760 --> 1:14:37.280 for blah blah blah blah blah. 1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:40.679 They own may not know that. A few years ago 1:14:42.000 --> 1:14:46.479 I did an entire project with me and a whole 1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:50.200 bunch of robots. Are you hip to the orchestra on? 1:14:52.560 --> 1:14:55.320 You know, I kind of ragged on speakers a little 1:14:55.320 --> 1:14:58.439 while ago, but actually that kind of got cracked back 1:14:58.520 --> 1:15:03.920 in in early nineteen twenties. Player pianos output device, not 1:15:04.000 --> 1:15:06.640 a speaker, the composers in the room. But he's not 1:15:06.760 --> 1:15:10.759 in the room. You're hearing an acoustic sound. I mean, man, 1:15:11.240 --> 1:15:15.360 there it is. And of course, not long after that, 1:15:15.520 --> 1:15:19.280 somebody came along with wire recordings. Then seventy eights. It's 1:15:19.360 --> 1:15:22.479 like you know that put the player piano guys out 1:15:22.479 --> 1:15:27.920 of business. So for their last gasp, they are like, okay, 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:30.920 we need to like, let's attach some drum, snare drum 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:34.160 and some symbols and a xylophone to the player piano. 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:38.000 And then people did that, and so they did that, 1:15:38.120 --> 1:15:40.400 and you still hear them in pizza parlors every now 1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:43.040 and then, you know where it's like that does yep, 1:15:43.400 --> 1:15:46.800 And those were the first orchestrions. And the thing about 1:15:46.840 --> 1:15:49.679 those instruments you can't listen for more than about thirty 1:15:49.720 --> 1:15:52.559 seconds before you want to kill yourself because they have 1:15:52.640 --> 1:15:55.360 no dynamics. It's just like if somebody talks like this 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:57.680 all the time, you cannot listen to them because and 1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:00.680 music that doesn't have dynamics, nobody can listen to that. 1:16:00.760 --> 1:16:04.760 And that's that was the real downfall of that tech 1:16:05.320 --> 1:16:11.320 so flat. You know, fast forward seventy years, Yamaha comes 1:16:11.320 --> 1:16:14.200 along with the disclavier, which we all know as you know, 1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:17.720 playing girl from Eanma how to tune in hotel lobbies. 1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:25.120 Only you would say it amazing technology. And that's sol 1:16:25.120 --> 1:16:29.120 annoys which do allow dynamics. And I've followed this stuff 1:16:29.160 --> 1:16:32.600 all along. It's something I've been interested in, you know, basically, 1:16:32.800 --> 1:16:38.920 midy to control voltage that can hit something or do something. 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:42.000 And so I put together a bunch of instruments from 1:16:42.280 --> 1:16:45.880 five really great inventors, none of them really knew each other, 1:16:46.600 --> 1:16:48.920 and went out and did a whole tour, me on 1:16:48.960 --> 1:16:51.960 a bunch of robots, proving once and for all just 1:16:52.000 --> 1:16:55.519 how weird I actually am. It was. You know, it 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:59.400 was not quite settled science before that, but that did it. 1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:02.040 You want to talk about, you know, the potential for 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:02.839 train wrecks. 1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:06.280 Wait, were you the only human on stage? 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:10.080 I was the only human on stage, and check it out. 1:17:10.720 --> 1:17:13.040 You know. The thing is I made a record which 1:17:13.439 --> 1:17:18.120 you know was not really understood because you couldn't see it. 1:17:18.400 --> 1:17:19.960 But at the very end of the tour, because I 1:17:19.960 --> 1:17:22.400 did one hundred and some concerts around the world with this, 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:24.640 at the end of the tour, we filmed it and 1:17:25.040 --> 1:17:28.760 you can find it online the orchestre On project, and 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:32.280 you can see what was going on. And honestly, it's 1:17:32.360 --> 1:17:35.439 ten years now or more twelve years since I did it. 1:17:35.560 --> 1:17:38.759 I can't believe nobody else is doing it. I was like, man, 1:17:38.840 --> 1:17:41.080 you know this is gonna this is going to be 1:17:41.080 --> 1:17:43.320 the thing, but my thing, because there is one of 1:17:43.360 --> 1:17:46.320 these inventors that I've continued to work with, and the 1:17:46.360 --> 1:17:49.400 issue is dynamics, because when you hit your snare man, 1:17:49.479 --> 1:17:54.160 the you know, the amount of you know, what goes 1:17:54.200 --> 1:17:57.040 into that in terms of like pounds per square inch 1:17:57.680 --> 1:18:00.920 is like way more than any solonoid that existed then 1:18:01.040 --> 1:18:04.040 for sure. So now that this one guy who's a 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:07.280 Belgian guy has come up with a really powerful solenoid 1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:09.599 that if you put your hand down there, it would 1:18:09.600 --> 1:18:13.559 break your hand. Until we can present it to you 1:18:13.680 --> 1:18:17.040 or jay Z or somebody in an acoustic space doing 1:18:17.080 --> 1:18:20.360 the thing that it's supposed to do, we don't have anything. 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:22.679 But I don't know if you've ever been to Carnival 1:18:22.720 --> 1:18:28.160 in Brazil where it's like acoustic but loud, louder than 1:18:28.240 --> 1:18:30.000 Metallica that. 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:34.640 Because they're a billion people playing also the same thing exactly. 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:40.960 But also just the amount of air that gets moved acoustically, 1:18:42.240 --> 1:18:45.280 you know, and you're right, it's coming from not single 1:18:45.280 --> 1:18:50.280 instruments but like a multiple of But imagine what that 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:53.280 could be if you like, instead of you know, using 1:18:53.320 --> 1:18:56.000 a drum machine and instead of it being like, you know, 1:18:56.400 --> 1:18:59.439 something coming through your crappy little speakers, you're like in 1:18:59.520 --> 1:19:05.639 a where house with like seventeen bass drums getting hit 1:19:06.360 --> 1:19:09.519 harder than you can even imagine to make a sound 1:19:09.840 --> 1:19:12.760 and have it happen. This is the other issue with 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:15.600 all this stuff is latency because of the amount of 1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:17.759 time from the time you hit a pad or whatever 1:19:18.080 --> 1:19:20.880 till the time it takes it to turn into you know, 1:19:21.000 --> 1:19:25.280 unfortunately midy one point zero to then the ce you know, 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:29.280 control voltage aspect of it to the mechanism can be 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:31.720 you know, four or five milliseconds, which in terms of 1:19:31.800 --> 1:19:38.439 groove we know is love stub milliseconds. And so that 1:19:38.600 --> 1:19:41.120 issue also I think, you know, with five G kind 1:19:41.160 --> 1:19:45.479 of stuff, and you know, we're on the cusp of 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:48.800 a whole bunch of possibilities for musicians with this next 1:19:48.800 --> 1:19:50.800 step in tech that's going to be really great. 1:19:51.920 --> 1:19:52.200 Wow. 1:19:52.360 --> 1:19:58.160 Okay, so you're are you saying that you are currently 1:19:58.400 --> 1:20:03.000 trying to improve on a robot's ability to actually have 1:20:03.160 --> 1:20:11.320 human feel and can pre program dynamics, so like Snare 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:14.920 one might be seventy seven, but Snare two might be 1:20:15.080 --> 1:20:18.960 forty five, and and can do grace notes and can 1:20:19.040 --> 1:20:20.719 fluctuate and speed and slow down. 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:26.200 But but okay, so but wait, let me let me 1:20:26.240 --> 1:20:28.560 respond to that, because you know, I mean when the 1:20:28.680 --> 1:20:31.720 sink lavier came out, you know, stringlers, this is going 1:20:31.760 --> 1:20:33.880 to put us out of business. You know, it's like 1:20:34.120 --> 1:20:36.080 you know, a d X seven. You can't tell the 1:20:36.080 --> 1:20:38.360 difference between this and offend your roads. 1:20:38.640 --> 1:20:41.000 It's like, yeah, uk, are you kidding? 1:20:41.240 --> 1:20:44.759 You know, no, no, you know, to me, I'm about 1:20:44.920 --> 1:20:48.240 both and I'm not about either or and the whole 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:52.080 thing about you know, the like when I did the 1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:55.000 orchestra on project, of course, people are like, you're trying 1:20:55.040 --> 1:20:57.040 to put me the you know, you know all that stuff. 1:20:57.080 --> 1:20:59.799 It's like, no, no, if this is not a better 1:20:59.840 --> 1:21:03.080 way to do anything, this is a different way to 1:21:03.120 --> 1:21:06.240 do something. And I'm all about like, you know, what 1:21:06.360 --> 1:21:08.519 else can we do? I mean, you know, to me, 1:21:08.760 --> 1:21:12.639 like again going back to hip hop, jazz, classical folk. 1:21:12.880 --> 1:21:15.920 You know, what I'm into is creativity. And you know 1:21:16.320 --> 1:21:18.439 that's what I like is you know, like, man, I 1:21:18.439 --> 1:21:21.639 think about the Beatles. It's like god, you know, man, 1:21:21.760 --> 1:21:24.160 some you know, some artists are like happy if they 1:21:24.600 --> 1:21:26.960 if each record's got a sound. I mean those guys 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:30.880 every track had a completely different sound. I mean, you know, 1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:33.240 it's like God, I wish you know. I mean, you 1:21:33.240 --> 1:21:35.400 know the community that I kind of hang in like 1:21:35.720 --> 1:21:38.840 we're so creative. I mean, man, how many more trumpet 1:21:38.840 --> 1:21:43.080 tenor piano based drum records you know are there going 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:46.519 to be? And I did, I did two and four. 1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:48.920 But I mean, come on, let's you know what I mean? 1:21:48.920 --> 1:21:51.840 If you think of all the spectrum of all possible 1:21:52.000 --> 1:21:55.639 music that there could be made by humans, and then 1:21:55.680 --> 1:22:01.000 you think about this tiny sliver that most music now 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:05.240 in habits, it's like why. 1:22:04.240 --> 1:22:06.560 Well, let me let me ask is there a challenge 1:22:07.720 --> 1:22:11.920 that that you have yet to meet? 1:22:12.680 --> 1:22:15.400 And I guess the B side of that question would 1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:18.240 be have you how do you? How do you get? 1:22:18.320 --> 1:22:20.679 How do you navigate in a situation? 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:21.679 Uh? 1:22:21.720 --> 1:22:28.479 When you're doing improvisation in which I guess improvisation is. 1:22:28.439 --> 1:22:31.000 Only good as your collaborators, and your. 1:22:30.840 --> 1:22:36.559 Collaborators is really is only strong as who your weakest contributor. Well, 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:42.000 I don't want to say weakest, like, but how do you? Okay, 1:22:42.080 --> 1:22:45.519 let me just ask that question one is is there 1:22:45.560 --> 1:22:47.320 a challenge that you. 1:22:49.720 --> 1:22:52.120 Have dreamt about that you've yet to achieve? 1:22:53.240 --> 1:22:58.320 And how do you navigate a situation in which you 1:22:58.479 --> 1:23:04.880 might be improvised with less skillful musicians. I don't know 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:08.599 if you know, if you sit in a local bar 1:23:08.720 --> 1:23:11.160 one night with the musician. I don't mean like the 1:23:11.200 --> 1:23:13.120 guys that you actively tour with, but. 1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:18.360 I mean men. You know, for me, you know, it's 1:23:18.400 --> 1:23:21.639 the It's again, it's one of those cliches, the onion 1:23:21.760 --> 1:23:24.759 thing of every new step that you take as a musician, 1:23:25.560 --> 1:23:28.720 you reveal a thousand other things. It's like, God, you know, 1:23:28.760 --> 1:23:31.160 I really need to work on that and that and that. 1:23:31.840 --> 1:23:34.679 So it's really infinite for me. I mean in terms 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:38.040 of God, what do I need to get better at everything? 1:23:38.240 --> 1:23:40.400 You know? I mean it's just I mean one thing 1:23:40.400 --> 1:23:43.320 I will say though, So when I started making records, 1:23:43.360 --> 1:23:45.679 I've only been a musician for four or five years, 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:48.880 and I mean now it's fifty some years, and you know, 1:23:49.320 --> 1:23:52.240 I'm God, I'm like so much better now than I 1:23:52.439 --> 1:23:55.519 used to be. It's which makes it so much more fun. 1:23:55.600 --> 1:23:59.040 I understand so much more. And you know, remember when 1:23:59.080 --> 1:24:02.160 we first started talking, that was kind of the goal 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:03.559 for me, and it's still the goal for me. I 1:24:03.600 --> 1:24:06.800 just want to understand, like what is that? And when 1:24:06.800 --> 1:24:10.120 I hear some music that I really love, I want 1:24:10.160 --> 1:24:14.120 to know, like Okay, how does that work? And once 1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:17.400 I start doing that, usually I get to the point 1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:23.559 where I can kind of play in that realm and 1:24:24.880 --> 1:24:28.439 you know, and that that opens up another thousand doors, 1:24:28.479 --> 1:24:30.960 you know. But I feel like I always am coming 1:24:31.000 --> 1:24:34.160 to music as a fan first, you know, I'm like, 1:24:34.320 --> 1:24:36.320 I love music, you know, the same way I love 1:24:36.400 --> 1:24:39.400 that Models record. You know, I hear stuff all the 1:24:39.439 --> 1:24:41.439 time and I go, I love that? What is that? 1:24:41.680 --> 1:24:43.439 And I want to know what it is? And also 1:24:43.600 --> 1:24:45.760 why do I love that so much? What is it 1:24:45.800 --> 1:24:50.080 about that that really makes me dig it that much? Okay, 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:52.439 I'm going to give you a weird off though. All example, 1:24:52.720 --> 1:24:57.519 So the big hit right now, that young girl Olivia 1:24:57.680 --> 1:25:00.559 Yes and her tunes right her tune, And I mean 1:25:00.600 --> 1:25:02.639 because I have three kids, so I hear the hits 1:25:02.640 --> 1:25:04.560 all the time, and you know I did hear in 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:10.240 the hits, but you know that structurally that tune does 1:25:10.320 --> 1:25:10.800 a thing. 1:25:11.240 --> 1:25:14.559 So it's like, you know, to do don't give it 1:25:14.600 --> 1:25:17.600 that much more power now? Unpleasing you. 1:25:17.760 --> 1:25:20.200 Again, I don't know anything about the culture. I don't 1:25:20.240 --> 1:25:21.160 know anything. 1:25:20.800 --> 1:25:24.280 About her no no, no, no, no summer you. 1:25:24.240 --> 1:25:27.720 Know, doing that thing. And also it's something that happens 1:25:28.080 --> 1:25:30.599 a lot in right at the moment the thing where 1:25:30.600 --> 1:25:33.519 it's kind of fast, but it's also halftime, but it's 1:25:33.560 --> 1:25:36.040 also double time, you know, which is a cool thing. 1:25:36.280 --> 1:25:39.320 I mean there's like some you know, swing versions of 1:25:39.360 --> 1:25:41.559 that too, you know. I mean that's a great thing. 1:25:42.200 --> 1:25:47.559 And there you have it, Pat Metheny, I. 1:25:47.520 --> 1:25:51.000 Mean that that just popped into my mind. But you know, 1:25:51.080 --> 1:25:58.120 in terms of orchestration, dynamics, build execution, and then particularly communication, 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:01.439 I mean, it does the thing right, and you know, 1:26:01.600 --> 1:26:04.840 maybe that's lost in a lot of this discussion. It's 1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:07.719 like all the stuff you know about rhythm and harmony. 1:26:07.880 --> 1:26:11.320 Melody is kind of a mystery zone. But rhythm and harmony, man, 1:26:11.360 --> 1:26:13.000 you can talk about that stuff. You can go to 1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:17.960 college for four years on rhythm and harmony. Easy. 1:26:21.439 --> 1:26:23.120 Pat, you were talking about your kids. How old are 1:26:23.120 --> 1:26:23.680 you kids? Man? 1:26:24.520 --> 1:26:29.160 They're twenty two, twenty and twelve. 1:26:29.920 --> 1:26:32.559 Oh okay, that's Olivia, got it. 1:26:33.000 --> 1:26:34.519 That's what I was gonna say. 1:26:34.520 --> 1:26:35.720 What with their music matriculation? 1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:38.800 Like, like, how how do you what'sh your relationship with 1:26:38.800 --> 1:26:39.760 them musically. 1:26:40.040 --> 1:26:43.599 Seems like it goes like either full in or like 1:26:44.680 --> 1:26:49.080 don't bug us with the music thing. Dad, they're more 1:26:49.080 --> 1:26:52.559 in the second category, although all three of them could 1:26:52.720 --> 1:26:57.519 be musicians. They're all kind of mind blowingly good years 1:26:57.560 --> 1:27:02.799 and so forth. Taste wise, man, they're all over the place. 1:27:02.920 --> 1:27:05.840 You know, my middle kid, Jeff, who's like super hip. 1:27:06.280 --> 1:27:10.639 He's six'. Four he's mostly into, basketball but he started 1:27:10.680 --> 1:27:13.320 playing acoustic. Bass AND i mean he's been Around christian 1:27:13.360 --> 1:27:16.160 And Charlie hayden and all these cats since he was. 1:27:16.240 --> 1:27:20.439 Born AND i mean he's just got a natural easy 1:27:21.200 --> 1:27:24.760 walk and. Feel but the notes are kind of, like you, 1:27:24.800 --> 1:27:28.320 know kind of you, know NOT i don't want to say, 1:27:28.720 --> 1:27:32.599 random but but you, know the feel Wins actually it's, 1:27:32.640 --> 1:27:35.599 like you, know with that, feel it's like just fill 1:27:35.640 --> 1:27:37.639 in some. Lengths but he's just kind of, like, YEAH 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:39.879 i Think i'm gonna go practice free throws. 1:27:40.160 --> 1:27:43.840 Instead so it's never a thing where you forced the 1:27:43.920 --> 1:27:47.040 kids to like pick up the mantel and you're going 1:27:47.080 --> 1:27:48.120 to join the family. 1:27:48.160 --> 1:27:50.760 Business and, okay, yeah, NO. 1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:53.560 I wouldn't be like. That you, KNOW i don't. See and, 1:27:53.600 --> 1:27:55.679 also you know, what, man being it LIKE i said, 1:27:55.800 --> 1:27:59.400 EARLIER i, Mean i'm so happy to be a. Musician you, 1:27:59.400 --> 1:28:01.680 know it's like we actually get to deal in a. 1:28:01.920 --> 1:28:05.920 Currency that's. True you, know it's like be. Flat it's 1:28:05.920 --> 1:28:08.320 always b, flat no matter what else is going. On 1:28:08.840 --> 1:28:09.840 it's either of it. 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:11.479 Is in every. Language is the same. 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:13.240 Thing you never know feel. 1:28:13.320 --> 1:28:15.559 Good you, know we live in a time where facts are, 1:28:15.560 --> 1:28:18.559 debatable so you know, that but be. 1:28:18.680 --> 1:28:23.240 Flat it's always be, Flat, Steve BEFORE i, close did 1:28:23.280 --> 1:28:23.920 you have a? Question? 1:28:24.400 --> 1:28:29.680 Yeah you were also on other great, Labels Warner, brothers none. 1:28:29.800 --> 1:28:32.479 Such but the two albums you put out this year 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:35.720 in twenty twenty one are On Modern. Recordings is that your? 1:28:35.800 --> 1:28:38.160 Label and can you tell us a little bit about 1:28:38.240 --> 1:28:38.679 those two? 1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:39.560 Records? 1:28:39.920 --> 1:28:43.519 Yeah so my label was formed in nineteen eighty, four 1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:48.439 which Is Metheny Group, Productions and from that time until, 1:28:48.479 --> 1:28:52.760 now at various points along the, WAY i have made 1:28:52.840 --> 1:28:57.880 licensing deals with several different companies which were then sold 1:28:57.920 --> 1:29:01.760 to other companies on a couple, occasions which were then 1:29:02.040 --> 1:29:06.439 distributed by other. Companies but throughout it, All i've always 1:29:06.680 --> 1:29:09.960 had my own. THING i do WHAT i want to, 1:29:10.000 --> 1:29:14.920 do and everybody THAT i have worked with along the 1:29:14.960 --> 1:29:18.160 way has been. Great my thing has been my own 1:29:18.200 --> 1:29:21.160 thing SINCE i LEFT, ucm and it's just been a 1:29:21.160 --> 1:29:28.040 matter of getting different. Distributions these. Guys, uh you, know 1:29:28.080 --> 1:29:31.439 it's part OF, bmg this modern recordings, thing you, know 1:29:31.880 --> 1:29:34.080 for the first time in a really long. Time because 1:29:34.120 --> 1:29:37.479 actually WHEN i went To, Geffen geffen was distributed By. 1:29:37.560 --> 1:29:41.120 WARNERS i, mean it doesn't, matter it's really. Complicated Then 1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:43.760 warners And geffen got into a fight because of. ME 1:29:43.920 --> 1:29:47.280 i was like this speck of dust on a pond 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:50.800 at the bottom of. That somehow when they broke up 1:29:50.840 --> 1:29:54.880 their distribution, thing you, know And warners had invested a 1:29:54.920 --> 1:30:00.120 lot in me and my band distributing With geffen into so, 1:30:00.160 --> 1:30:05.439 ANYWAY i wound up On. Warners Then warners had a. 1:30:05.479 --> 1:30:08.360 Thing it was kind of a little different than At, 1:30:08.360 --> 1:30:12.080 geffen where they really left me completely. Alone WARNERS i 1:30:12.160 --> 1:30:15.240 kind of did have to you, know and was around 1:30:15.240 --> 1:30:18.719 a really good guy, There Matt, pearson who was very 1:30:19.200 --> 1:30:23.439 a really great enthusiastic supporter of my. Thing and then 1:30:23.640 --> 1:30:25.800 at a certain point they shut that down and Then 1:30:25.880 --> 1:30:29.880 None such took over what was left of. That and 1:30:29.920 --> 1:30:32.080 actually the guy that Ran None such at that time 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:34.559 was a guy THAT i he started AT ecm WHEN 1:30:34.600 --> 1:30:37.880 i Did Bob. Hurwitz so it's been all these. Guys 1:30:38.280 --> 1:30:40.120 i've known all these guys along the, way and it's 1:30:40.120 --> 1:30:43.559 been great with all of. Them, finally you, KNOW i 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:46.439 had this record deal that had been put in PLACE 1:30:46.479 --> 1:30:49.960 i think in nineteen ninety two FOR i, mean it's. 1:30:50.000 --> 1:30:52.800 Insane and then it kind of got to the end 1:30:53.000 --> 1:30:54.640 after all these, years AND i did a lot of 1:30:54.680 --> 1:30:58.519 records off the lay off the contract and stuff in, 1:30:58.560 --> 1:31:01.799 between and you, know, whatever it's all just whatever that stuff. 1:31:01.880 --> 1:31:04.680 Was but, finally for the first, TIME i was kind of, like, 1:31:04.720 --> 1:31:08.320 OKAY i can it's now. Twelve was going to school 1:31:08.400 --> 1:31:11.479 and a new kid came into the class From germany 1:31:12.280 --> 1:31:15.519 and he was this big monster fan and he came 1:31:15.600 --> 1:31:18.120 to my house and sat down with a guitar and 1:31:18.160 --> 1:31:20.559 started playing all the tunes AND. 1:31:20.439 --> 1:31:23.799 I was, like, wow just showed, up like he was invited. 1:31:23.880 --> 1:31:24.800 Over oh shoot. 1:31:25.040 --> 1:31:28.800 Yeah and then he, said and we're you, Know i'm 1:31:28.920 --> 1:31:32.200 part OF bmg and we're starting this new. Thing would 1:31:32.240 --> 1:31:36.759 you would you possibly be? Interested AND i was, like, well, 1:31:36.840 --> 1:31:40.439 YEAH i mean why. Not so now they're, distributing AND 1:31:40.560 --> 1:31:43.679 i mean it's DISTRIBUTED i think By warreners. KID i don't, 1:31:43.720 --> 1:31:46.559 know you, know for, me especially at this, point the 1:31:46.600 --> 1:31:50.599 whole idea of records and all, that it's a little 1:31:51.920 --> 1:31:54.040 hard to even know what's going. ON i, mean you, 1:31:54.080 --> 1:31:57.599 know it's a different world in a lot of. Ways 1:31:57.640 --> 1:32:00.200 but on the other, Hand i'm kind of like a 1:32:00.240 --> 1:32:04.080 guy THAT i do believe in the sort of structure 1:32:04.439 --> 1:32:07.800 of what an album. IS i think there's something to 1:32:07.800 --> 1:32:10.280 be said kind of like a novel is different than a, 1:32:10.320 --> 1:32:15.679 tweet you. Know, Cool, NO i, mean the novel form 1:32:15.800 --> 1:32:19.240 is a really great, form even short, stories you, know 1:32:19.360 --> 1:32:23.640 collection of short stories is a really nice, Form and you, 1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:27.120 KNOW i kind of relate to that in ways that 1:32:27.280 --> 1:32:31.280 doing one tune at a. Time you, know maybe at 1:32:31.280 --> 1:32:34.400 some POINT i don't have anything against, it But i'm still, 1:32:34.560 --> 1:32:37.920 like you, Know i've got so many projects in, mind 1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:40.760 many of Which i've already even, done that are kind 1:32:40.800 --> 1:32:41.759 of album type. 1:32:41.800 --> 1:32:45.599 Records so, yeah, wait do you have another? Question, yeah 1:32:45.640 --> 1:32:47.559 can we interview interview you? 1:32:47.640 --> 1:32:48.760 Forever please. 1:32:53.479 --> 1:32:56.640 Answers you can see for my answers that could actually be. 1:32:56.720 --> 1:33:02.840 Possible on and on and. On everybody in the house is, 1:33:02.960 --> 1:33:03.439 like this. 1:33:04.560 --> 1:33:08.200 Show actually lives up to the idea of WHAT i 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:12.519 would like to think every episode Of Quest Love supreme. 1:33:12.680 --> 1:33:15.840 IS i, MEAN i LOVE i love the education that 1:33:15.880 --> 1:33:18.680 we're getting and the, knowledge like this is this is very. 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:21.800 Important all, RIGHT i got one last. Question, WELL i. 1:33:21.880 --> 1:33:23.600 Got a bunch of questions for you, too BECAUSE i 1:33:23.880 --> 1:33:25.439 want to get those, In so. 1:33:25.360 --> 1:33:29.800 Go, ahead ask. Away, NO i was about to wrap 1:33:29.880 --> 1:33:30.200 up up. 1:33:30.120 --> 1:33:32.479 To this, question your last, one and Then i'll start asking. 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:38.479 You, OKAY i heard that in an interview once on 1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:43.519 w BG o where you said that You i'm Sorry, 1:33:44.200 --> 1:33:48.320 Jersey New york w BG oh famous jazz station Of New, 1:33:48.400 --> 1:33:53.240 york that you keep a diary or journal of all 1:33:53.280 --> 1:33:56.559 the shows that you. Do how long have you been 1:33:56.640 --> 1:34:02.439 keeping a journal of these shows and how in depth 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:07.320 are they and do you ever plan on releasing this 1:34:07.520 --> 1:34:11.840 as a memoir to your illustrious. 1:34:11.880 --> 1:34:16.360 Career, well the first THING i would say to that 1:34:16.439 --> 1:34:18.760 is Something i've been saying on, occasion which, is you, 1:34:18.760 --> 1:34:22.280 know the line between like full blown mental illness and 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:29.600 like compulsive productivity is a very fine one THAT i 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:32.000 do my best to stay on the right side. Of 1:34:32.640 --> 1:34:36.439 and you know my reasons for, that it's Been i've 1:34:36.439 --> 1:34:40.599 been doing it since the nineteen eighty one is THAT 1:34:40.960 --> 1:34:43.439 i was doing a lot of, gigs and you, know 1:34:43.800 --> 1:34:47.760 back in those, days it was quite common when you 1:34:47.880 --> 1:34:50.920 would do a tour you would play the same city 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:55.240 two or three times on the, tour and SO i was, 1:34:55.320 --> 1:34:57.479 LIKE i want to keep track of what we played 1:34:57.560 --> 1:35:00.280 so that when we come back the next, time play 1:35:00.320 --> 1:35:03.200 a different set OR i put it in a different. 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:06.280 Order so that started. It it was kind of a pragmatic. 1:35:06.360 --> 1:35:10.479 Thing and THEN i started to, realize, like, okay and 1:35:10.560 --> 1:35:12.960 also every time we would go to that hall there 1:35:13.040 --> 1:35:16.960 was like a really nasty, buzz so it's, like you, 1:35:17.000 --> 1:35:18.920 KNOW i started to keep track of that stuff. Too 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:21.479 and every time we would go work with that, promoter 1:35:22.280 --> 1:35:26.719 he you, know would would not do, this or he 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:30.160 had a crappy sound system or whatever it. Was back 1:35:30.200 --> 1:35:33.160 in those, DAYS i was the tour, manager you, KNOW 1:35:33.240 --> 1:35:37.200 i was, everything you, know and you, know having that reference, 1:35:37.240 --> 1:35:39.160 thing THEN i could at least call ahead to the 1:35:39.800 --> 1:35:44.280 right kind of, whatever you, know so you, know with 1:35:44.320 --> 1:35:46.760 stuff like. That but then it THEN i realized too 1:35:47.320 --> 1:35:52.360 THAT i was taking kind OF i was starting to 1:35:52.400 --> 1:35:55.760 become more aware of the kinds of things THAT i 1:35:55.800 --> 1:36:00.960 would do again and again THAT i didn't really dig that. 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:06.640 Much and you, know and this was totally self. Directed 1:36:07.600 --> 1:36:09.960 and there is a thing that we all have as, 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:14.240 musicians especially if you play a long, set you, know, 1:36:14.920 --> 1:36:19.240 like you, know the fourth, tune you completely destroy the. 1:36:19.280 --> 1:36:22.800 Bridge it's like you didn't even come. Close and, then you, 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:28.120 know two hours, later the set is over and everybody 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:31.120 claps standing ovation or, whatever and you kind of, go, well, 1:36:31.920 --> 1:36:34.040 YEAH i guess it was. COOL i, mean everybody seemed 1:36:34.040 --> 1:36:36.320 to dig. It you. Know then the next night you're 1:36:36.360 --> 1:36:38.599 at the fourth tune again and here comes that bridge 1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:41.479 and it's like you didn't shed, it you didn't you 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:44.920 mess it up, again you. Know so it was stuff like. 1:36:45.000 --> 1:36:47.280 That it was, like you, know IF i keep track 1:36:47.360 --> 1:36:50.360 of these things by replaying the whole gig in my, 1:36:50.439 --> 1:36:52.679 mind BECAUSE i can only do it for about an 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:55.360 hour or two after the. Gig after, that it's, like 1:36:55.479 --> 1:36:58.400 first of, All i'm wasted because we, do you, know 1:36:58.600 --> 1:37:02.000 six cities a week and you, know riding the bus every, 1:37:02.080 --> 1:37:04.360 night and so it's like by the next day it's 1:37:04.479 --> 1:37:06.240 like just a blur. Anyway so. 1:37:10.760 --> 1:37:13.400 All, right so IF i got you have, QUESTIONS i 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:14.240 will answer them for. 1:37:14.320 --> 1:37:14.720 YOU i got. 1:37:14.800 --> 1:37:16.360 QUESTIONS i, mean this is a. 1:37:16.439 --> 1:37:18.000 First i'm so ready for. 1:37:18.040 --> 1:37:20.439 This i'm not ready for. This i'm, like, yo, man 1:37:21.439 --> 1:37:23.639 my mom would call me a. 1:37:23.680 --> 1:37:27.760 Question this won't surprise, you. Though my questions are to 1:37:27.840 --> 1:37:34.479 start with about the, movie which is unbelievable, Man thank. Yous. 1:37:34.960 --> 1:37:41.000 Unbelievable it's incredible what you. Did, NOW i MEAN i appreciate, 1:37:41.080 --> 1:37:43.760 that you, know but it's more Than it's more than 1:37:43.800 --> 1:37:47.599 what it. Is it's something else that's really, important and 1:37:47.680 --> 1:37:51.760 you did it so good. MAN i, mean it's, like you, 1:37:51.800 --> 1:37:53.320 know everybody has to see. 1:37:53.320 --> 1:37:57.600 That and technically not a, question but, yeah not a, 1:37:57.680 --> 1:37:59.840 question BUT i. 1:37:59.760 --> 1:38:05.240 Would take that. Compliment is it any more Sunny sharrock? 1:38:05.479 --> 1:38:08.479 Footage AND i do have a comment on, That but 1:38:10.200 --> 1:38:11.960 how did you get it to sound that? Good? 1:38:12.840 --> 1:38:17.920 Yo that is the million dollar? QUESTION i, lie do you? 1:38:18.040 --> 1:38:24.920 Not one of my favorite engineers in the world Is Jimmy. Douglas, 1:38:24.320 --> 1:38:27.760 yes a gentleman who's you. Know he started Off Barry 1:38:27.760 --> 1:38:31.679 white And slave and eventually went To timberland And Missy. 1:38:31.680 --> 1:38:34.720 Elliott like he he forty years of. 1:38:34.800 --> 1:38:43.240 Excellence he also did The Uretha Franklin Amazing grace movie as. 1:38:43.280 --> 1:38:44.640 WELL i lie to you. 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:49.880 Not jimmy hit us and was sort of, LIKE i 1:38:49.920 --> 1:38:55.000 think this rough mix sounds good as, is and Literally 1:38:55.080 --> 1:38:58.200 i'll say that we did maybe zero point two percent 1:38:58.320 --> 1:39:02.280 equing like what you hearing is the act is just 1:39:02.320 --> 1:39:06.080 a rough reference, mix which to, ME i. 1:39:06.000 --> 1:39:08.280 Don't know how to explain. 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:13.080 That only fifteen microphones and you can look. One you, 1:39:13.120 --> 1:39:15.080 Know i've watched the movie in various. Ways there was 1:39:15.120 --> 1:39:17.000 one time WHERE i just watched the movies to see 1:39:17.040 --> 1:39:21.680 what the outputs. Were and you, know In Stevie wonder set, 1:39:21.720 --> 1:39:25.400 alone there's there's three mics on his, drums so that's 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:28.960 already twelve mics left, over three mics for his, drums 1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:33.559 three mics for his other, drummer and then his keyboard 1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:37.599 gets a, mic his vocal gets a, mic and his rhythm, 1:39:37.600 --> 1:39:42.400 section his guitar and his bass is share there they're 1:39:42.680 --> 1:39:44.479 what do you call their amster sort of facing each, 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:47.960 other so they're sharing a, mic and the remaining five 1:39:48.040 --> 1:39:50.559 are going to the brass. SECTION i don't know how 1:39:51.320 --> 1:39:55.120 it sounded at crispy and, perfect but we basically did 1:39:55.600 --> 1:40:01.680 very little post on on and the sound like what you're, 1:40:01.720 --> 1:40:04.639 hearing is like the rough mix of the, reference which 1:40:05.000 --> 1:40:07.800 to me was way more perfect than anything that we 1:40:07.840 --> 1:40:08.439 could have done to. 1:40:08.479 --> 1:40:13.479 It So sonny shock, right, yes swallow this connects with 1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:18.719 with our one of our earlier. Points swallow, said, YEAH 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:22.560 i would Watch sonny like get there early and meticulously 1:40:22.600 --> 1:40:25.599 warm up with these chromatic scales for like an, hour 1:40:26.439 --> 1:40:27.240 and then he would go. 1:40:27.240 --> 1:40:36.000 Out on stage and not play chromatic. Scales, no he. 1:40:36.040 --> 1:40:39.800 Was, Great, Sonny and you got some Good sonny there. 1:40:39.920 --> 1:40:42.679 TOO i mean the way and ALSO i, mean, MAN 1:40:42.960 --> 1:40:45.680 i mean so all the music aspect of it is, 1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:48.280 great but to, me what was really great was the 1:40:48.320 --> 1:40:51.880 story you told with, it and the way you told 1:40:51.880 --> 1:40:55.800 the story and just everything about. It, man it's just the, 1:40:55.880 --> 1:40:57.960 greatest really really. 1:40:58.000 --> 1:41:02.519 WELL i appreciate, that AND i thank you for receiving. 1:41:02.560 --> 1:41:04.680 It and they're laughing right now because they know THAT 1:41:04.800 --> 1:41:09.320 i cringe at, compliments but, No i'm wet right. Now 1:41:09.880 --> 1:41:13.560 and that, Said i'm rapping up this episode Of Patany's 1:41:13.640 --> 1:41:18.320 question because they are laughing there As, no, SERIOUSLY i 1:41:18.360 --> 1:41:20.640 want to thank you for doing, this you, know and, 1:41:20.720 --> 1:41:27.400 AGAIN i appreciate information in history like. 1:41:27.439 --> 1:41:30.680 No, other especially with. Music and you, know all that 1:41:30.720 --> 1:41:31.560 you've done. 1:41:31.439 --> 1:41:35.840 To to to push to push the art form of music, 1:41:35.880 --> 1:41:40.080 forward not even just, jazz but just creativity for it 1:41:40.120 --> 1:41:42.600 is not lost on. Me and we're big fans of 1:41:42.640 --> 1:41:44.120 yours and we appreciate you. 1:41:44.040 --> 1:41:44.599 For doing it real. 1:41:44.640 --> 1:41:47.760 Man, yeah my good Buddy Chris burnoff is a huge 1:41:47.800 --> 1:41:48.040 fan of. 1:41:48.080 --> 1:41:51.840 Yours he's my guitar. Player he like has like your. 1:41:51.840 --> 1:41:54.120 Song he has like A pat mactheeny song book in 1:41:54.160 --> 1:41:55.320 his studio and he showed it to. 1:41:55.360 --> 1:41:57.840 Me do that, shitok like The. Bible it was. HUGE 1:41:57.880 --> 1:42:01.080 i was, like what the? Fuck so, nah, man it. 1:42:01.160 --> 1:42:03.120 Was i'm a huge fan AND i just want to 1:42:03.160 --> 1:42:05.680 thank you too for so may it secretly. Begin that's 1:42:05.680 --> 1:42:09.320 another favorite favorite one of yours THAT i really. Enjoyed 1:42:09.360 --> 1:42:10.840 so just thank you for all the, music, man for, 1:42:10.880 --> 1:42:11.479 real it was. 1:42:11.479 --> 1:42:13.599 A pleasure hanging with you. Guys thank you so much 1:42:13.680 --> 1:42:17.759 for inviting. Me really, yeah all, right. 1:42:17.600 --> 1:42:19.880 Well be half a Sugar steve and Unpaid bill and 1:42:20.320 --> 1:42:22.639 fan tigolo and, like, yeah my name is Quest. 1:42:22.720 --> 1:42:25.360 Love thank You pat mcffeni. Uh this is Quest Love 1:42:25.439 --> 1:42:27.439 supreme and we'll see you on the next go. Round all, 1:42:27.520 --> 1:42:28.080 right thank. 1:42:27.920 --> 1:42:34.960 You, yo what's? Up this Is. 1:42:35.040 --> 1:42:37.880 Fonte make sure you keep up with us On instagram 1:42:37.920 --> 1:42:39.720 AT QLs and let us know what you. 1:42:39.760 --> 1:42:41.599 Think who should be next to sit down with? Us 1:42:41.840 --> 1:42:45.320 don't forget to subscribe to our, podcast all? Right Peace. 1:42:53.600 --> 1:42:55.360 West Love supreme is a production Of. 1:42:55.520 --> 1:43:03.040 iHeartRadio for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit The iHeartRadio, App Apple, 1:43:03.080 --> 1:43:05.439 podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite. 1:43:05.439 --> 1:43:05.759 Shows