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Speaker 1: Push it. I'm khalil Ja Bron Muhammad.

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Speaker 2: I'm Ben Austen. We're two best friends, one black, one white.

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Speaker 1: I'm a historian and I'm a journalist. And this is

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Speaker 1: some of my best friends.

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Speaker 2: Are Some of my best friends are black, White, Jewish Muslim.

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Speaker 2: In this show, we wrestle with.

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Speaker 1: The challenges and the absurdities of a deeply.

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Speaker 2: Divided and unequal country. And today we're talking about inter

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Speaker 2: racial and inter religious love on the big screen.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Ben, but so many people

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Speaker 1: have asked me over the past several weeks. Are we

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the Netflix movie you people?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, so many. It's a movie that came

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Speaker 2: out earlier this year. It's starring Jonah Hill and Eddie

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Speaker 2: Murphy among many great actors, and it's written by Jonah

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Speaker 2: Hill and Kenya Barris of Blackish fame.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and this is a movie that is I mean,

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Speaker 1: the opening line in this movie could not be more

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Speaker 1: appropriate for.

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Speaker 3: You and me.

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Speaker 1: Yo, yo yo, Welcome to the Mowing Easy Show. I'm

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Speaker 1: mow into my left is my favorite jew with nothing

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Speaker 1: to do, My boy easy.

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Speaker 2: All right, man. So, Jonah Hill's character Ezra he does

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Speaker 2: a podcast. Two hosts, a gem doing a podcast with

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Speaker 2: one white. It's about race and culture in America. And listen,

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Speaker 2: as we speak, Pushkin lawyers are out there. They are

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Speaker 2: going after Netflix to make sure that we get paid.

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Speaker 1: That's right, because they stole our idea. They built a

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Speaker 1: whole show, a whole movie around I knew it.

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Speaker 2: I knew they would steal that.

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Speaker 1: But no, seriously, this movie comes at a really interesting

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Speaker 1: time in the country. I mean, we're somewhere in between

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Speaker 1: the Trump era, the Biden era and what comes next.

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Speaker 1: And as so often is the case, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is a movie with a plaud It's an interracial rom com,

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Speaker 1: but it's a rom com within this bigger social moment.

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Speaker 2: And so of course you said, you said it's an

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Speaker 2: interracial rom com, and I just want to say, there's

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Speaker 2: a white man and a black woman they fall in love.

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Speaker 2: But even more than that, or in addition to that,

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Speaker 2: the white dude, Ezra is Jewish, the black woman is Muslim,

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Speaker 2: so it's an inter religious rom com.

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Speaker 1: Also, it's like an interracial inter religious rom com.

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Speaker 2: How about that man last ensue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, as I was saying, and good point. As

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Speaker 1: I was saying like, here is this mashup of relationships

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Speaker 1: that are meant to show the boundaries of our existing society,

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Speaker 1: to show the segregation that we still all live with,

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Speaker 1: even for people like you and me, Even our communities

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Speaker 1: here are represented as being sort of narrow and parochio

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Speaker 1: and not really able to see the fullness of the

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Speaker 1: other side.

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Speaker 2: And this is where movies are really powerful because they

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Speaker 2: show us ourselves and sometimes we even laugh at ourselves,

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Speaker 2: but they're these cultural artifacts, these touchstones. We're able to

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Speaker 2: understand all those boundaries and how to cross them by

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Speaker 2: seeing versions of it on the screen or on our televisions.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So guess what we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about how well to some degree

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Speaker 1: this movie helps us see ourselves, and to what degree

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Speaker 1: there are these antecedents and other movie stories that unpack

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Speaker 1: a similar topic.

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Speaker 2: How are we going to do this today, Khalil, So in.

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Speaker 1: The first half, we're going to talk about white black romance.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about two people falling in love

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Speaker 1: and basically how American history and society and most especially

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Speaker 1: their parents get in the way, like all the racial

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Speaker 1: baggage that gums up the true love story at the

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Speaker 1: heart of you people.

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Speaker 2: Let's call lets what should we call that first half?

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Speaker 1: Well, let's call it Guess Who's coming to dinner?

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Speaker 3: All right?

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Speaker 2: All right, all right? And then the second part. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of experience with that first part

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Speaker 2: that you're describing. But the second part, let's explore the

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Speaker 2: black say more, in the second part, let's explore the

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Speaker 2: black and Jewish dynamics. All right, let's look at the

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Speaker 2: black and Jewish thing. So this movie comes out just

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Speaker 2: a little bit or almost at the exact same time

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Speaker 2: as Kanye West is saying he's about to go deaf

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Speaker 2: con three on the Jewish people, after Kyrie Irving gets

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Speaker 2: suspended from the NBA for tweeting about a movie.

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Speaker 1: Net's player.

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Speaker 2: That's right, he's on the Dallas Mavericks now because you know,

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Speaker 2: Brooklyn was way too Jewish for him, Like he tweets about,

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Speaker 2: you know, endorsing a movie that makes these claims about

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Speaker 2: the Holocaust now not happening, and about Jews being involved

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Speaker 2: in the slave trade. And listen, also amid like twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: this this last year was the highest ever on record,

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Speaker 2: you know, record being going back to nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 2: of hate crimes against Jewish people, which you know, we

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Speaker 2: could say is still like a fragment of say, what's

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Speaker 2: going on in terms of racism towards blacks? But this

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Speaker 2: is at this heightened moment. That's right, it's so interesting

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Speaker 2: to explore this. And since you got a name for

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Speaker 2: your part, I'm gonna call this what's what's your name?

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Speaker 2: A rabbi and an e mom walk into a bar?

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Speaker 1: Oh oy oy OOI all right?

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Speaker 2: So, like even the title you People is is like

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Speaker 2: coded kind of racism and often like unintentional bigoted phrase

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Speaker 2: like hey you people. It's a lot like some of

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Speaker 2: my best friends are. It's perfect movie for us to

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Speaker 2: talk about right here, here is the breakdown of what

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Speaker 2: happens in You People. And there're gonna be a few

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Speaker 2: spoiler alerts, but you need to know some of the

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Speaker 2: plot and what happens in it for us to talk

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Speaker 2: about it for this to make sense.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, Jonah Hill's Ezra and Lauren London's Emrah they meet

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Speaker 2: cute in Los Angeles?

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Speaker 1: What does me cute mean?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: You know what's yes, you do, man, that's every that's

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Speaker 2: every rom com you meet in a funny way, and

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Speaker 2: you know, you get connected. And then they go on

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Speaker 2: this date and the date, you know, there's a montage.

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Speaker 2: You know, it lasts for hours, they talk into the night,

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Speaker 2: and then it jumps ahead six months and they're living together.

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Speaker 2: And you know, in my opinion about this movie, these

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Speaker 2: two actors, Jonah Hill and Lauren London, they have zero chemistry.

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Speaker 2: This is my opinion. They have nothing. They have nothing together.

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Speaker 1: But can I say something about this just for a second.

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Speaker 1: There is an important thing that brings them together, right,

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Speaker 1: which is quote unquote the culture. The culture, and in

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Speaker 1: that way, the culture being you know euphemism for black

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Speaker 1: culture hip hop. Yeah, they share this in common. So

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Speaker 1: they both hit kind of hip hop heads. They're both

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Speaker 1: in the sneaker culture. And as we've already said, Zara

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Speaker 1: is a co host with a black co host who

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Speaker 1: is non gender conforming mo who is an actual comedian,

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Speaker 1: and so he's he's like got his real bona fides.

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Speaker 1: He's not just some some Jewish dude from lam.

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Speaker 2: See. See you're already like codd on me. He's not

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Speaker 2: just some Jewish dude. This is already messed up. We're

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Speaker 2: already like you're black and Jewish from Chicago. So more plot.

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Speaker 2: It's all going, well, they're living together. Then Ezra's like,

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Speaker 2: I want to take this another step further. I'm in love.

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Speaker 2: I want to marry her. But two people white and black,

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Speaker 2: they don't exist in a cultural irracial bubble. They have

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Speaker 2: to meet one another's parents. You know, parents are they

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Speaker 2: stand in as like all of the rest of society

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Speaker 2: the past, and really like who the children are? That's right,

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Speaker 2: and it's you know, these are the things that are

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Speaker 2: going to keep people apart.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you're right, these are the things that are going

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Speaker 1: to keep people apart. So much so that this whole

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Speaker 1: story around what the parents are capable of. Hearkens back

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Speaker 1: to a film over fifty years ago called Guess Who's

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Speaker 1: Coming to Dinner. It is, in many ways the precedent

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Speaker 1: for this story. This is a film with a bang

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Speaker 1: up cast of character. Sidney Potier, that's right.

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Speaker 2: You're like, you're like out here, like I am the

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Speaker 2: Hollywood reporter, a bang up cast.

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Speaker 1: Yes, your auditioning, oh man whatever, Spencer, Tracy, Sidney Poitier,

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Speaker 1: Catherine Hepburn as the mother of the white daughter who

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Speaker 1: who they're worried about marrying Sidney Poitier. Isabelle Sanford appears

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Speaker 1: here as Tilly the maid, and then introducing a woman

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Speaker 1: named Catherine Houlton, who is the main character, who is

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Speaker 1: the white woman who is gonna marry Sidney Poitier. This

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Speaker 1: movie comes out in late nineteen sixty seven. It's just

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Speaker 1: six months after the Loving versus Virginia Supreme Court case.

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Speaker 1: You remember what that case was.

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Speaker 2: That is so amazing to think about. So a movie

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Speaker 2: about interracial marriage comes out right after the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: says it's now legal for black and white people to

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Speaker 2: get married.

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Speaker 1: That's right, which had been banned across the South and

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Speaker 1: most particularly. The film says in the film, in the

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Speaker 1: writing of the script says, sixteen or seventeen states would

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Speaker 1: object to you guys getting married.

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Speaker 2: So that on that movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, man, it's amazing the pressing issue, like the weight

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Speaker 1: of the world, is happening in the context of this film.

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Speaker 1: So here's a quick story. These two fall in love,

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Speaker 1: as they say, in twenty minutes. They both happen to

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Speaker 1: be in Hawaii. Sidney Poitier plays this epidemiologist. He's a

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Speaker 1: world renowned public health doctor. And it's not clear what

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Speaker 1: the character Joey is actually doing for a living. But

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Speaker 1: she's twenty three years old. She's young, she's exploring the world.

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Speaker 1: These two fall in love, they meet cute, and they

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Speaker 1: fall in love instantly. So the big idea here is

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Speaker 1: that they want to get married immediately, and they have

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Speaker 1: to convince Joey's parents, Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn, that

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Speaker 1: they should get married, but they wanted to do it

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Speaker 1: the old fashioned way to get permission. At the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, this is what the story turns on.

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Speaker 1: Will the parents consent, will the parents go along? But

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Speaker 1: there's a wrinkle here. Instead of this being like some

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Speaker 1: story about some throwback Alabama parents you know who would

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Speaker 1: of course object, Spencer Tracy, the father, is presented as

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Speaker 1: this San Francisco liberal, you know. He when he first

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Speaker 1: meets John, who is played by Sidney Poortier, he is

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Speaker 1: all in. He's like, Hey, who's this guy? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what an accomplished gentleman you are. He pays no attention

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Speaker 1: to the possibility that this guy wants to marry his daughter.

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Speaker 2: I'm all into this because I've seen this at some point,

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Speaker 2: but I've totally forgotten it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm down, yes, And the mother, Katherine Hepburn, shows

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Speaker 1: all of these faces of consternation and concern, but in

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Speaker 1: the end it is clear that she's okay with this.

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Speaker 1: And so the story is about getting on board at.

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Speaker 2: Some nineteen sixties white liberals they want to you know,

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Speaker 2: this is in the civil rights moment. They want to

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Speaker 2: embrace this idea of interracial marriage, that it's okay, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And so at some point the dad is being called

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Speaker 1: out by this priest who's like one of his best friends.

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Speaker 1: Monsignor Ryan shows up and he has this really powerful line.

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Speaker 1: He says, you know something, I'm surprised at you. Says,

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Speaker 1: you know what, You're just some broken down, phony liberal

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Speaker 1: who has to come face to face with your own principles.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: He says, there is some reactionary bigot trying to get

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Speaker 1: out in you. And I'm like, oh snap, that is

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Speaker 1: such a powerful resident line, right. That is the line

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Speaker 1: that in many ways you people plays with. It's like

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Speaker 1: this notion that liberals are all cool with everything until

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Speaker 1: it's their own kid. This movie reserves, though the most

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Speaker 1: strident critiques of this relationship, for the black character played

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Speaker 1: by Isabel Sandford. The maid Tilly, She is the one

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Speaker 1: who has given the responsibility in this film for our

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Speaker 1: tiulating black people's perspectives on interracial marriage. In this clip,

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Speaker 1: she's challenging Sidney Poitier because she's like, Hey, I have

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Speaker 1: raised this girl my whole life, and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to let you mess up her life.

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Speaker 5: You may think you're fooling Miss Joy and her folks,

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Speaker 5: but you ain't fooling me for a minute. You think

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Speaker 5: I don't see what you are. You're one of those

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Speaker 5: smooth talking, smart ass niggas just out of all you

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Speaker 5: can get with your black power and all that other

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Speaker 5: trouble making nonsense. You bring any troubling in and you

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Speaker 5: just like to find out what black power really mean.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So that is a really powerful statement. And in many ways,

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Speaker 1: Sidney Poitier's black parents, who are eventually invited to dinner,

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Speaker 1: never really articulate their objections they're placed on this maid.

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Speaker 1: But in the end, this story resolves itself with the

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Speaker 1: father coming around because he's ultimately challenged by his wife

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Speaker 1: who's like, I've never been more disappointed in you. And

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Speaker 1: the moral of this story is that while he has

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Speaker 1: to come to terms with this, he basically says that

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Speaker 1: you guys will have to survive in a world full

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Speaker 1: of prejudices, bigotries, blind hatreds, and stupid fears, and you

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Speaker 1: will have to cling to each other and to quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: screw all those people.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting. It sounds like a lot of the

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Speaker 2: movie is focused on the parents rather than on the

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Speaker 2: young people and their dynamics. What we were saying before

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Speaker 2: about society being represented by the parents.

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Speaker 1: That's right, all right, we're going to take a break.

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Speaker 2: All right, all right, so we are we are fifty

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Speaker 2: years later. Now we're you know, nineteen sixty seven. Guess

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Speaker 2: who's coming to dinner? And now we're at you people.

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Speaker 2: You know, interracial love has been legal for more than

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Speaker 2: half a century. What does you people have to say

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Speaker 2: about this story about interracial love that's different.

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Speaker 1: Well, first thing, it's like a world made by Lewis

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Speaker 1: far Kahan and the Black power movement.

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Speaker 2: Well you meant, well.

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Speaker 1: The signpost in this film of like what blackness is

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Speaker 1: is embodied in the character of Eddie Murphy. The father

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Speaker 1: of the main character. Eddie Murphy's name is ackbar Amira's father.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Eddie Murphy's name is Akbar, and of course

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Speaker 1: he's changed his name like so many radicals in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and seventies, from Woody from Woody.

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Speaker 2: The first time we see him, he's walking in. He's

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Speaker 2: wearing a Fred Hampton was murdered t shirt. That's right,

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Speaker 2: former Black Panther leader. And so he's coming and he

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Speaker 2: is all of the signifiers of being a black radical,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 1: And to my mind, he's the closest thing as importing

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Speaker 1: the voice of Tilly played by Isabelle Sandford into this story.

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Speaker 1: He's the most unreasonable person in this story, so much

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Speaker 1: so that he actually blames his wife's white grandfather, who

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Speaker 1: apparently was some light scanned dude, for like polluting the

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Speaker 1: bloodstock of his light scanned daughter. Let's listen to this

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Speaker 1: clip where Akbar is leaning over to his wife to

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Speaker 1: blame her for this whole fiasco.

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Speaker 3: There's your white granddaddy, come back and haunt me.

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Speaker 1: What that nigga never liked me?

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Speaker 5: And it started off by him putting them strong ass

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Speaker 5: jeans in you that lighten up the coffee, and my

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Speaker 5: babies are you?

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Speaker 1: Then he planted a poison pill in my little baby girl, and.

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Speaker 2: It has grown into this white boy that invited us

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Speaker 2: to lunch at Roscoe Man. All right, Eddie Murphy, h

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Speaker 2: what's interesting you're saying that he sort of is voicing

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Speaker 2: Tilly from guess Who's coming to dinner? But he's also

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Speaker 2: the white dad because in this movie, he's the one

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Speaker 2: that's opposed to this marriage. He's the one that's opposed

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Speaker 2: to the union of black and white. And we get

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Speaker 2: Ezra's parents embodied by Julia Luis Dreyfus, you know, from

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Speaker 2: Veep and from Seinfeld. She plays Shelley Khane, and she

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Speaker 2: is like genuinely thrilled. She's giddy that she's going to

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Speaker 2: have this black daughter. That's right.

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Speaker 1: There's this early moment where she says something like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're going to become a family of color. We are

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Speaker 1: going to be a family of the future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And her races is, you know, showing white people

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Speaker 2: as oblivious they're inadvertently racist. And you know the first

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Speaker 2: time that she has the kids come to their house

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Speaker 2: to dinner, the white family's house, she says apropos of

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Speaker 2: absolutely nothing the first time meeting her. You know, the

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Speaker 2: police are and always have been fucked up they're really

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Speaker 2: terrible to black people. I hate it, you know. She

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Speaker 2: just announces this out of nothing, total awkward, a different

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Speaker 2: kind of racism than opposing this marriage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but can I say something to you about that.

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Speaker 1: There's a kind of virtue signaling in that. And that's

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Speaker 1: what I was trying to say with Spencer Tracy's character,

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Speaker 1: like he's the San Francisco liberal who gets it, like

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Speaker 1: there's nothing weird about this black dude in my apartment.

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Speaker 1: I am down with that. So yes, this is the

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Speaker 1: updated version of that kind of liberal virtue signaling. So

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Speaker 1: you people, in some ways, given that point imagines racism

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Speaker 1: is only really about bigoted individuals. It's not really a

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Speaker 1: social commentary and structural racism, even as it gestures to

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Speaker 1: police violence or as an other line that the character

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Speaker 1: Shelley Cohen articulates is that everyone should bow to the

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Speaker 1: national anthem. These really aren't the issues that motivate like kneeling.

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Speaker 2: Kneeling, Yeah, she's trying to She's like a Colin Kaepernick,

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Speaker 2: She's trying to do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So these really aren't the issues that carry. The more

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Speaker 1: weight to the film, the more way of the film

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Speaker 1: really falls on stereotypes, you know, the sort of bigoted

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Speaker 1: ideas that people still hold when they think, you know

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Speaker 1: you people. That's the kind of conceit of this film.

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Speaker 2: That's super interesting. And I agree with you completely that

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Speaker 2: that the movie to me like shows wacky characters being

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Speaker 2: wacky and it's there, you know, there isn't some deeper

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Speaker 2: analysis and you know, like a lot of these types

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Speaker 2: of movies, the way this one functions is it's sort

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Speaker 2: of an excuse to get mostly men to hang out

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Speaker 2: with one another and to do something. So we get

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Speaker 2: Jonahill and Eddie Murphy's character. They're going to go off

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Speaker 2: and like explore one another.

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Speaker 1: And like there's actually funny montage of moments, right, there's.

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Speaker 2: A montage of moments when they go out and like

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Speaker 2: Eddie Murphy is testing him of like how much does

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Speaker 2: he really know about the culture? And here black culture

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Speaker 2: and so like what constitute black culture in the movie

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Speaker 2: in this moment, is he's going to take him to

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Speaker 2: a basketball court in the hood or a barber shop

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Speaker 2: that's actually like a gang barbershop. You know, they never

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Speaker 2: actually go to Achbar's house. Akbar is Muslim. They don't

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Speaker 2: go to a mosque you know, this is the whole

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Speaker 2: extent of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so some of our listeners might be thinking, Okay, Benicola,

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Speaker 1: you guys are beating up on this film a little

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Speaker 1: bit too much. You're imposing too much ectation.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to beat up on him more, man, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to beat up on him more, because like Eddie

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Speaker 2: Murphy's working at like thirty percent here.

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Speaker 1: You know, it is like it is one of the

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Speaker 1: most low key performances in all of cinematic history. But

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a counterpoint to this film, and it's

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Speaker 1: the film, for example, that Jordan Peele makes about white

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Speaker 1: liberals and the way they literally commodify black bodies. Get Out.

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Speaker 1: Get Out is a story of inner ration, romance turned

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Speaker 1: into a horror story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you were talking about Guess Who's coming to Dinner?

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about how that how get Out is

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Speaker 2: a total response to that. It is like taking that

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Speaker 2: and turning it into a horror film. That when you

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Speaker 2: go to this house and these these well meaning liberals, Uh,

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Speaker 2: there is something so much deeper and structural that is,

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Speaker 2: it's so dangerous that it's going to fucking kill you.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And the metaphor of being lobottomized and having

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Speaker 1: your bolly stolen is just the horror spin on it.

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Speaker 1: But the point is that you're still being consumed, that

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Speaker 1: black culture is being consumed, that blackness is being consumed,

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Speaker 1: even by so called friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something that irked me about you people. I

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Speaker 2: got to admit. It's like, so, Ezra is supposed to

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Speaker 2: be this guy who is He says, I was raised

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Speaker 2: by hip hop, you know. But he's talking to his

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Speaker 2: fiance his girlfriend's parents, and you know, he can't even

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Speaker 2: talk about uh, Malcolm X clearly, and he's got one

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Speaker 2: of his boys, and one of the jokes is that

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Speaker 2: one of his boys stormed the Capitol on January And

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Speaker 2: come on, man, you can't have both, you know, like

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Speaker 2: like as a joke, it just doesn't even work. It's

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Speaker 2: this idea that you just said of like quirky you know,

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Speaker 2: individual racism and having no like larger implications. That's right,

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Speaker 2: all right, man, So spoiler alert, Like, you know, the

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Speaker 2: movie moves forward and this couple, Emra and Ezra they

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Speaker 2: decide that they just can't do it. Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: The pressure that the failures of the family, the friends,

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Speaker 1: the network, the whole social community that they're part of

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Speaker 1: just is not evolved enough to handle this relationship.

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Speaker 2: Ezra is on his podcast and he laments that race

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Speaker 2: in America conquers love, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to black and white people, I don't

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Speaker 2: think love is enough.

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Speaker 1: There's too many other outside factors.

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Speaker 2: He says, whether friends or family. People can't accept what

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Speaker 2: they don't understand. That's a really good podcast. Huh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, thinking about Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? In

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Speaker 1: this film, there is something that feels like it didn't evolve,

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Speaker 1: like it didn't feel the promise of Guess Who's coming

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Speaker 1: to dinner, which ultimately was the cautionary note of a

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Speaker 1: generation two generations ago, and in this film is basically saying,

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Speaker 1: not only are we no further along, but we don't

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Speaker 1: even have the guts to talk about what's happening in

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Speaker 1: our states. I mean, you think about Guess Who's coming

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Speaker 1: to dinner? Talking about sixteen or seventeen states that had

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Speaker 1: outlawed marriage. We've got sixteen or seventeen states that outlawed

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Speaker 1: even talking about structural racism, So you know, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take a break and when we come back, we're

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Speaker 1: going to look at the inter religious part of this

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Speaker 1: rom com story.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back, all right, all right, Khalil, we

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Speaker 2: are back on the Mow and Easy Show.

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Speaker 1: And I got my jew with nothing to do, hang

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Speaker 1: it out with me this afternoon.

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Speaker 2: That is so true, so true, all right, man, about

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Speaker 2: Jewish stuff. Every Jewish person I know who saw this

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Speaker 2: movie doesn't like it. They're angered by it, they're frustrated

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Speaker 2: by it. And let me tell you, Jewish people are

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Speaker 2: on like high alert for stuff like this. They want

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Speaker 2: stuff like this to be like meaningful. They want to

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Speaker 2: like for it to get into like, you know, the

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Speaker 2: good stuff about Jewish and Black history of working together.

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Speaker 2: They wanted to do something progressive and listen, I did

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Speaker 2: tons of research, really really, oh man. I went to

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Speaker 2: Jewish Twitter, you know, I searched it. I read the foreword.

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Speaker 2: I mean I was looking around.

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Speaker 1: And to an editorial.

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Speaker 2: Man, to be very serious. There are editorials all over

430
00:23:07,676 --> 00:23:11,076
Speaker 2: like Jewish publications. For real, they are talking about this

431
00:23:11,636 --> 00:23:15,356
Speaker 2: and for Jewish people something like this. You know, I'm

432
00:23:15,356 --> 00:23:18,116
Speaker 2: going to quote a Philip Roth short story. They want

433
00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:21,116
Speaker 2: to know, is you people? Is it good for the

434
00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:23,196
Speaker 2: Jews or no good for the Jews.

435
00:23:25,036 --> 00:23:27,756
Speaker 1: Well, I was maybe not quite in that line. I

436
00:23:27,876 --> 00:23:31,756
Speaker 1: was curious if they felt like the film was a

437
00:23:31,796 --> 00:23:39,076
Speaker 1: touchstone for evoking the historic relationship of progressive Jews and

438
00:23:39,196 --> 00:23:42,196
Speaker 1: black civil rights activists from the nineteen sixties, Like saw

439
00:23:42,236 --> 00:23:44,396
Speaker 1: this film as kind of a way to jump start

440
00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:47,356
Speaker 1: or re energize that relationship because I know a few

441
00:23:47,396 --> 00:23:50,316
Speaker 1: conversations I've had with some of my Jewish friends, my

442
00:23:50,436 --> 00:23:53,156
Speaker 1: other Jewish friends, that's a topic that often comes up.

443
00:23:53,436 --> 00:23:55,716
Speaker 2: Man, they wanted it, they wanted it to do. There's

444
00:23:55,716 --> 00:24:00,196
Speaker 2: actually a joke in there when Amira's brother first learns

445
00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:05,236
Speaker 2: that his sister is dating a guy named Ezra. He's

446
00:24:05,276 --> 00:24:08,196
Speaker 2: hopeful because he's like, is that a third generation civil

447
00:24:08,276 --> 00:24:10,796
Speaker 2: rights leader? You know, like everyone was named sort of

448
00:24:10,996 --> 00:24:13,116
Speaker 2: like you know, they had these old Testament.

449
00:24:12,756 --> 00:24:15,756
Speaker 1: Names, right that he's not actually white, but he's a

450
00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:18,276
Speaker 1: black dude with a Jewish Jewish first name. Yeah, that

451
00:24:18,316 --> 00:24:19,076
Speaker 1: is a funny joke.

452
00:24:19,396 --> 00:24:21,316
Speaker 2: So so I want to say that this movie in

453
00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:26,356
Speaker 2: terms of Black and Jewish relationships, to me, it started promising.

454
00:24:26,356 --> 00:24:29,556
Speaker 2: And I watched this with my family, so my two

455
00:24:30,036 --> 00:24:33,756
Speaker 2: black Jewish children and my black wife and the first

456
00:24:33,796 --> 00:24:37,476
Speaker 2: scene is set in a synagogue on Joam Kapoor, the

457
00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:42,636
Speaker 2: holiest day of holy days. And you know, so already

458
00:24:42,676 --> 00:24:44,796
Speaker 2: we have a sense that, yes, these are white people,

459
00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:47,116
Speaker 2: but there are certain kind of white people.

460
00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:49,476
Speaker 1: They're Jewish, And can I ask a question about that

461
00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:52,556
Speaker 1: as a non Jew? By that you mean because because

462
00:24:52,836 --> 00:24:55,556
Speaker 1: they were obviously Jews that don't go to synagogue or

463
00:24:55,596 --> 00:24:59,476
Speaker 1: Yam Kapur, So you're saying that it's also religiously meaningful

464
00:24:59,476 --> 00:25:02,756
Speaker 1: self identified Jews. That you mean or does everybody go

465
00:25:02,796 --> 00:25:04,036
Speaker 1: to synagogue on ya.

466
00:25:04,036 --> 00:25:06,676
Speaker 2: It's like the one day when people if you're Jewish, yes,

467
00:25:06,996 --> 00:25:08,596
Speaker 2: it's the one day we're going to do something. So

468
00:25:08,716 --> 00:25:10,916
Speaker 2: like like people are going to synagogue one day a year.

469
00:25:10,956 --> 00:25:13,316
Speaker 2: That's the one day a year. And it actually Ezra

470
00:25:13,436 --> 00:25:15,716
Speaker 2: is signaled right away as one of those guys, like

471
00:25:16,036 --> 00:25:18,516
Speaker 2: he's wearing high tops in there, his legs are shaken,

472
00:25:18,596 --> 00:25:22,596
Speaker 2: he's totally uninterested in this. He is told he is

473
00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:25,116
Speaker 2: related to us as somebody who is a secular Jew

474
00:25:25,156 --> 00:25:26,076
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles.

475
00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:30,436
Speaker 1: Got it well. I was like both curious about how

476
00:25:30,476 --> 00:25:34,556
Speaker 1: you responded to the engagement ring moment because there's this

477
00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:38,516
Speaker 1: joke in the film about the size of Ezra's engagement

478
00:25:38,596 --> 00:25:43,276
Speaker 1: ring that he's purchased for Mirah. It's tiny, and first

479
00:25:43,356 --> 00:25:46,196
Speaker 1: teases him about it, but then there's this like setup

480
00:25:46,276 --> 00:25:48,996
Speaker 1: for how he's going to present it to a mirror,

481
00:25:48,996 --> 00:25:50,836
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, oh, is that like a

482
00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:51,636
Speaker 1: bridge too far?

483
00:25:52,596 --> 00:25:53,356
Speaker 2: Let's listen to that.

484
00:25:54,196 --> 00:25:57,676
Speaker 1: So what's the story here? That's your grandmother, Yes, my

485
00:25:57,756 --> 00:26:01,156
Speaker 1: grandmother's and it's her she got into Holocaust or whatever,

486
00:26:02,796 --> 00:26:04,396
Speaker 1: Like how old is she?

487
00:26:04,556 --> 00:26:06,356
Speaker 4: It's from the Holocaust?

488
00:26:07,236 --> 00:26:09,556
Speaker 5: Been a minute. I think she got catering.

489
00:26:09,636 --> 00:26:11,236
Speaker 3: She was like three or four years old.

490
00:26:13,236 --> 00:26:14,916
Speaker 1: It's a different time from them.

491
00:26:15,316 --> 00:26:17,676
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, so so jokes about the Holocaust,

492
00:26:17,756 --> 00:26:19,636
Speaker 2: you know, they could be a little dangerous, you know.

493
00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:23,676
Speaker 2: But uh but even that joke is like being tasteless

494
00:26:23,916 --> 00:26:26,916
Speaker 2: or controversial. Like that's where a lot of humor lize

495
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:28,836
Speaker 2: and even a lot of truth. I was still with

496
00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:31,516
Speaker 2: the movie at that point, Okay, right, I like that.

497
00:26:31,676 --> 00:26:33,716
Speaker 2: I liked that I was there, But from for me,

498
00:26:34,076 --> 00:26:37,316
Speaker 2: from there, the movie sort of falls off the cliff,

499
00:26:37,476 --> 00:26:39,676
Speaker 2: like why why? What so?

500
00:26:39,796 --> 00:26:42,116
Speaker 1: Because because I have to admit, first time I saw

501
00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:44,436
Speaker 1: the film, I was a little bit less impressed. Second time,

502
00:26:44,476 --> 00:26:45,316
Speaker 1: I thought it grew on me.

503
00:26:45,836 --> 00:26:48,116
Speaker 2: Ah, I had a different like, I was like okay

504
00:26:48,116 --> 00:26:49,596
Speaker 2: with it because I watched it with my family. The

505
00:26:49,596 --> 00:26:51,796
Speaker 2: first time, they were willing to laugh at anything, and

506
00:26:51,836 --> 00:26:54,156
Speaker 2: then the second time, I was like, oh man, I

507
00:26:54,196 --> 00:26:54,796
Speaker 2: was also.

508
00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:57,276
Speaker 1: Half asleep the first time, so I'll admit that.

509
00:26:57,436 --> 00:27:01,916
Speaker 2: Okay, all right. So to me, that the character's jewishness,

510
00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:04,556
Speaker 2: that that how they are, how they are Jewish, is

511
00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:08,436
Speaker 2: sort of invisible. It's not really a part of the film.

512
00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:12,036
Speaker 2: And even from those first moments and from those first jokes,

513
00:27:12,076 --> 00:27:14,596
Speaker 2: it starts to disappear. And even if they are secular

514
00:27:14,676 --> 00:27:18,356
Speaker 2: Jews in Los Angeles, still sort of like what that means.

515
00:27:18,676 --> 00:27:21,476
Speaker 2: And since you used another movie to make an explanation,

516
00:27:21,556 --> 00:27:24,476
Speaker 2: since you use some guess who's coming to dinner, I'm

517
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:27,156
Speaker 2: going to bring up another Jewish movie, a recent Jewish movie.

518
00:27:27,516 --> 00:27:30,916
Speaker 2: So last year, this movie Armageddon Time came out and

519
00:27:31,036 --> 00:27:31,836
Speaker 2: did you see that movie?

520
00:27:31,956 --> 00:27:33,396
Speaker 1: I did not. I didn't even know it came out.

521
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:34,436
Speaker 2: It was too Jewish.

522
00:27:34,716 --> 00:27:38,116
Speaker 1: It was like only shown in synagogues and in Jewish

523
00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:38,876
Speaker 1: community centers.

524
00:27:38,916 --> 00:27:41,596
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's a big release movie. So it's

525
00:27:41,596 --> 00:27:43,716
Speaker 2: about and you know, it's kind of relevant to us

526
00:27:43,716 --> 00:27:46,396
Speaker 2: because it's about two middle school kids in the nineteen eighties,

527
00:27:46,436 --> 00:27:50,676
Speaker 2: one black, one white, and it definitely focuses on the

528
00:27:50,756 --> 00:27:54,476
Speaker 2: Jewish family, all right, And so this Jewish middle school

529
00:27:54,476 --> 00:27:56,276
Speaker 2: boy is trying to figure out the world and his

530
00:27:56,316 --> 00:27:58,796
Speaker 2: friendship with this black kid, and he goes to his

531
00:27:58,876 --> 00:28:02,596
Speaker 2: grandfather who's played by Anthony Hopkins, which is kind of funny.

532
00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:06,076
Speaker 2: Anthony Hopkins is not Jewish. He's playing this Jewish guy.

533
00:28:06,276 --> 00:28:09,116
Speaker 2: But the thing about this movie is that the Jewish

534
00:28:09,876 --> 00:28:13,556
Speaker 2: is so omnipresent. So the grandfather who's still you know,

535
00:28:13,876 --> 00:28:16,716
Speaker 2: all the grandparents, they still have their European accents because

536
00:28:16,716 --> 00:28:19,436
Speaker 2: they've come there from the Holocaust. They're talking about the Holocaust,

537
00:28:19,676 --> 00:28:23,636
Speaker 2: they're talking about being Jewish. And really what's presented to

538
00:28:23,676 --> 00:28:26,316
Speaker 2: the characters is a kind of choice in the face

539
00:28:26,396 --> 00:28:29,796
Speaker 2: of racism in America. They have to make a choice

540
00:28:29,876 --> 00:28:34,836
Speaker 2: between coming across as Jewish or white, and the two

541
00:28:34,876 --> 00:28:39,156
Speaker 2: are different. They could lean into the privilege that, you know,

542
00:28:39,196 --> 00:28:41,916
Speaker 2: the whiteness gives them access to a kind of privilege

543
00:28:41,916 --> 00:28:43,796
Speaker 2: and they can lean up to it, or they can

544
00:28:43,836 --> 00:28:46,076
Speaker 2: sort of say we're going to stand up against injustice

545
00:28:46,116 --> 00:28:46,676
Speaker 2: and risk that.

546
00:28:47,236 --> 00:28:49,396
Speaker 1: And so here, justice in this context has to do

547
00:28:49,516 --> 00:28:50,596
Speaker 1: with whom.

548
00:28:50,516 --> 00:28:55,196
Speaker 2: With racism that the Jewish grandson is hearing anti black racism.

549
00:28:55,476 --> 00:28:59,156
Speaker 2: And so here's the grandfather played by Anthony Hopkins, talking

550
00:28:59,156 --> 00:29:02,236
Speaker 2: about his experiences from the Holocaust, and he's schooling his

551
00:29:02,276 --> 00:29:03,636
Speaker 2: grandson on what to do.

552
00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:06,636
Speaker 4: You run the mom thing next time those schmuck say

553
00:29:06,636 --> 00:29:10,036
Speaker 4: anything better about those black kids or those stans. You'd

554
00:29:10,036 --> 00:29:13,316
Speaker 4: be a mens to those kids. Okay, they never had

555
00:29:13,356 --> 00:29:14,876
Speaker 4: your advantage.

556
00:29:15,356 --> 00:29:18,076
Speaker 2: Yo, Man, what's deep about this is at no. But

557
00:29:18,236 --> 00:29:20,596
Speaker 2: later in the movie the father his father gives the

558
00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:23,396
Speaker 2: exact opposite advice. He's like, you got to save yourself

559
00:29:24,116 --> 00:29:26,396
Speaker 2: whatever leg up you can get. You know, we face

560
00:29:26,436 --> 00:29:29,596
Speaker 2: so much anti semitism and oppression. We need to like,

561
00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:33,916
Speaker 2: if you've got an advantage, take it. But in New People, Man,

562
00:29:34,236 --> 00:29:36,756
Speaker 2: and New People, there is no choice, all right. The

563
00:29:36,876 --> 00:29:40,316
Speaker 2: characters aren't wrestling with being white and Jewish. You know,

564
00:29:40,556 --> 00:29:43,796
Speaker 2: Jewish Jewishness comes up in a couple jokes, but it's

565
00:29:43,796 --> 00:29:45,916
Speaker 2: mostly not there. And I'm like, I'll give one example,

566
00:29:45,956 --> 00:29:47,556
Speaker 2: and you could probably think of others too when you

567
00:29:47,556 --> 00:29:51,036
Speaker 2: start thinking of the movie this way. So all of

568
00:29:51,036 --> 00:29:54,076
Speaker 2: the female characters are incredibly underwritten in New People. But

569
00:29:54,156 --> 00:29:57,036
Speaker 2: there's this scene where Shelley and Emira, you know, so

570
00:29:57,076 --> 00:29:58,716
Speaker 2: they're going to go off in the same way that

571
00:29:58,756 --> 00:30:00,716
Speaker 2: the men have gone off, and they don't. There's nothing

572
00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:02,636
Speaker 2: Jewish about what they do. They go to a spa.

573
00:30:03,076 --> 00:30:06,316
Speaker 2: There's no like explanation of like, there's nothing that Emirah

574
00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:08,916
Speaker 2: has to do to try to understand who they are.

575
00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:12,436
Speaker 2: It's just like eh, and the same thing like like

576
00:30:12,556 --> 00:30:16,556
Speaker 2: Akbar doesn't take Ezra to a mosque or anything religious.

577
00:30:16,916 --> 00:30:19,076
Speaker 2: You know, there's just like some at some point, there's

578
00:30:19,076 --> 00:30:21,436
Speaker 2: just like some you know, silly joke. You know, Ezra

579
00:30:21,636 --> 00:30:23,676
Speaker 2: has to date other women, Jewish women, and there's like,

580
00:30:23,716 --> 00:30:25,596
Speaker 2: you know, you what do you know about black culture?

581
00:30:25,916 --> 00:30:28,636
Speaker 2: Maybe you know about bagel culture. That's like the extent

582
00:30:28,716 --> 00:30:29,796
Speaker 2: of like the Jewishness.

583
00:30:29,956 --> 00:30:32,436
Speaker 1: So what you're saying is that religion here is treated

584
00:30:32,516 --> 00:30:33,796
Speaker 1: almost like a caricature.

585
00:30:34,236 --> 00:30:37,236
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a wink at different moments. Yeah. Yeah.

586
00:30:37,316 --> 00:30:40,236
Speaker 1: In fact, I thought it was interesting that part of

587
00:30:40,276 --> 00:30:45,396
Speaker 1: the way to show Akbar's bigotry, his own anti whiteness,

588
00:30:45,436 --> 00:30:48,356
Speaker 1: so to speak, is that he is a big fan

589
00:30:48,436 --> 00:30:51,436
Speaker 1: of Far Khan and goes through this long, elaborate story

590
00:30:51,436 --> 00:30:54,156
Speaker 1: of how he received a koofi from Far Khan as

591
00:30:54,236 --> 00:30:57,556
Speaker 1: kind of a special ceremonial rites of passage for him,

592
00:30:57,916 --> 00:31:00,556
Speaker 1: and so far Khan stands in as this kind of

593
00:31:01,596 --> 00:31:06,196
Speaker 1: both acknowledgment of his Muslim identity, which is very controversial

594
00:31:06,236 --> 00:31:09,116
Speaker 1: in terms of most Muslims who are Sunni Muslims, even

595
00:31:08,996 --> 00:31:13,636
Speaker 1: a black people, and also as this political controversy that

596
00:31:13,756 --> 00:31:17,036
Speaker 1: makes him even more unlikable in some ways as a character,

597
00:31:17,316 --> 00:31:19,476
Speaker 1: as really a setup for the moral arc of the film.

598
00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:22,196
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Lewis Fowerkunt also has this history of

599
00:31:22,236 --> 00:31:26,116
Speaker 2: anti Semitism, He's made comments before, and so Ezra has

600
00:31:26,236 --> 00:31:28,396
Speaker 2: zero stake in this, like he doesn't there, Like what

601
00:31:28,396 --> 00:31:30,716
Speaker 2: do you think about Lewis Fowerkun. He's like, I love him,

602
00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:33,716
Speaker 2: He's great, He's got nothing. The parents are a little

603
00:31:33,756 --> 00:31:37,596
Speaker 2: more uncomfortable, but this seemed like an opportunity to explore things.

604
00:31:37,636 --> 00:31:40,716
Speaker 2: You put these two parents together, the Muslim parents and

605
00:31:41,236 --> 00:31:44,956
Speaker 2: the Jewish parents, something could have happened. And actually, let's

606
00:31:44,956 --> 00:31:46,876
Speaker 2: stay with that scene a little bit more because it's

607
00:31:47,196 --> 00:31:51,116
Speaker 2: it takes place. There's a dinner at the children's house

608
00:31:51,396 --> 00:31:53,796
Speaker 2: and they invite both sets of parents to bring them together.

609
00:31:54,596 --> 00:31:57,436
Speaker 1: And this is the guests who's coming to dinner moment

610
00:31:57,476 --> 00:31:59,876
Speaker 1: for this film. This is the filmic homage to that

611
00:31:59,916 --> 00:32:03,236
Speaker 1: earlier film when everyone is in the room and we

612
00:32:03,276 --> 00:32:05,276
Speaker 1: are set up for fireworks.

613
00:32:05,116 --> 00:32:08,956
Speaker 2: And so the parents start talking and their differences around

614
00:32:09,196 --> 00:32:13,596
Speaker 2: race and religion start to emerge, and they're all sort

615
00:32:13,636 --> 00:32:16,076
Speaker 2: of like you know, hot button issues that come up.

616
00:32:16,116 --> 00:32:16,916
Speaker 2: Listen to this moment.

617
00:32:17,516 --> 00:32:20,196
Speaker 4: All I'm saying is that our people came here with

618
00:32:20,236 --> 00:32:21,596
Speaker 4: nothing like everybody else.

619
00:32:22,076 --> 00:32:25,676
Speaker 1: Actually, you kind of sort of came here with the

620
00:32:25,716 --> 00:32:29,156
Speaker 1: money that you made from the slave trade. Like everyone preach,

621
00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:34,036
Speaker 1: preach mother, preach mother. It's very I would like to

622
00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:35,636
Speaker 1: see your sources on Maybe go.

623
00:32:35,556 --> 00:32:36,196
Speaker 3: Get my purse.

624
00:32:36,436 --> 00:32:38,356
Speaker 1: I've got my slave receipts in my purse.

625
00:32:38,436 --> 00:32:41,876
Speaker 2: Go get my purse. Because I don't turn on the

626
00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:45,396
Speaker 2: news every day and see people in Yamaka's getting shot

627
00:32:45,436 --> 00:32:53,436
Speaker 2: by police just because they was out minding their business. Okay, wow, yeah,

628
00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:55,036
Speaker 2: I want you to just talk about this and get

629
00:32:55,076 --> 00:33:00,636
Speaker 2: in trouble. Yeah. So, so there's like there are different

630
00:33:00,636 --> 00:33:03,236
Speaker 2: pieces of this, and there's like the last thing that

631
00:33:03,396 --> 00:33:07,476
Speaker 2: Eddie Murphy's Achbar says is really interesting, right, like like

632
00:33:07,676 --> 00:33:11,676
Speaker 2: Jewish people who is white are not being killed by

633
00:33:11,676 --> 00:33:16,356
Speaker 2: police officers right, that's like a conversation about privilege, about whiteness,

634
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:19,996
Speaker 2: what is anti Semitism, what's anti blackness? Like it's all

635
00:33:20,076 --> 00:33:22,356
Speaker 2: kind of there, but man, it's caked up in this

636
00:33:22,396 --> 00:33:26,676
Speaker 2: other stuff, you know, Like that that thing that the

637
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:32,076
Speaker 2: mother says Nea Long's character, Fatima Achbar's wife, she's saying

638
00:33:32,156 --> 00:33:37,476
Speaker 2: the exact sort of racist, anti Semitic trope. That is

639
00:33:37,516 --> 00:33:40,596
Speaker 2: what got Kyrie Irving in trouble. So, like what to

640
00:33:40,676 --> 00:33:43,076
Speaker 2: make of it? That scene, Like it's just like throwing

641
00:33:43,116 --> 00:33:46,916
Speaker 2: out a laundry list of stuff and it's not owning

642
00:33:46,956 --> 00:33:48,836
Speaker 2: any of the any of the material.

643
00:33:49,396 --> 00:33:52,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree with you there, And it did

644
00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:56,316
Speaker 1: feel like, again it positioned in this case, and this

645
00:33:56,436 --> 00:33:59,356
Speaker 1: might explain why so many of your Jewish friends and

646
00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:01,796
Speaker 1: so many within the larger Jewish community in the United

647
00:34:01,796 --> 00:34:05,716
Speaker 1: States felt like the film wasn't a good film because

648
00:34:05,836 --> 00:34:10,396
Speaker 1: it was an unnecessary provocation. It's also generally within the

649
00:34:10,436 --> 00:34:14,156
Speaker 1: main of the black community, a talking point even among

650
00:34:14,236 --> 00:34:16,756
Speaker 1: black people who identify as Muslims, whether their nation of

651
00:34:16,796 --> 00:34:20,716
Speaker 1: Islam Muslims or Sunni Muslims. So in that way, the

652
00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:24,436
Speaker 1: film traffics in a stereotype that has this kind of

653
00:34:24,996 --> 00:34:27,836
Speaker 1: both sidesism to it, meaning it's you know, like the

654
00:34:27,876 --> 00:34:30,956
Speaker 1: white privilege has to be set against this black list

655
00:34:31,556 --> 00:34:36,836
Speaker 1: nationalism that is extreme and anti semitic, and that's not

656
00:34:37,036 --> 00:34:40,236
Speaker 1: really how most people aren't engaging into what is already

657
00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:41,476
Speaker 1: a difficult relationship.

658
00:34:42,196 --> 00:34:44,516
Speaker 2: And you know, so what was what was so problematic

659
00:34:44,596 --> 00:34:47,116
Speaker 2: or troubling about those moments when you know, Kyrie Irving

660
00:34:47,156 --> 00:34:50,316
Speaker 2: endorsed that film, or when Kanye West spoke out against

661
00:34:50,396 --> 00:34:53,876
Speaker 2: Jewish people, is that you know, you said that most

662
00:34:53,916 --> 00:34:56,116
Speaker 2: most black people aren't trafficking in this kind of like

663
00:34:56,196 --> 00:34:59,516
Speaker 2: anti semitic language, but a lot of people don't know

664
00:34:59,556 --> 00:35:03,076
Speaker 2: what's what's in the mainstream, and you know, to suddenly

665
00:35:03,116 --> 00:35:06,676
Speaker 2: hear it in in famous black people talking about it

666
00:35:06,716 --> 00:35:09,076
Speaker 2: and hearing it even coming from the right, and then

667
00:35:09,236 --> 00:35:11,556
Speaker 2: to be in kind of a mainstream Netflix movie like this,

668
00:35:12,116 --> 00:35:14,236
Speaker 2: it does have this kind of you know, danger of

669
00:35:14,276 --> 00:35:16,436
Speaker 2: even feeling like, oh no, this must be okay. And

670
00:35:16,476 --> 00:35:20,316
Speaker 2: as you said, it's like set up against something like

671
00:35:20,716 --> 00:35:21,636
Speaker 2: police brutality.

672
00:35:21,756 --> 00:35:26,916
Speaker 1: They're like equivalents, right right, Well, I think you've convinced

673
00:35:26,996 --> 00:35:30,236
Speaker 1: me now that we've had a full work up of

674
00:35:30,276 --> 00:35:33,156
Speaker 1: the failures of this film to deal with inter religious

675
00:35:33,756 --> 00:35:36,956
Speaker 1: components of this relationship that actually the film isn't as good.

676
00:35:37,036 --> 00:35:40,756
Speaker 1: My first impression is probably the more accurate one. That

677
00:35:40,876 --> 00:35:44,236
Speaker 1: all being said, I have a final idea. There's a

678
00:35:44,236 --> 00:35:46,396
Speaker 1: lot of meat on the bones left, you know what

679
00:35:46,516 --> 00:35:50,476
Speaker 1: this movie attempts to do. And so many of our

680
00:35:50,476 --> 00:35:53,476
Speaker 1: listeners know that you are a talented writer, and I'm

681
00:35:53,556 --> 00:35:56,796
Speaker 1: just thinking, I don't know. I mean, call me a dreamer,

682
00:35:56,956 --> 00:36:00,476
Speaker 1: but I'm just wondering, you know, like, after seeing this film,

683
00:36:00,916 --> 00:36:04,516
Speaker 1: did it occur to you to think about writing the

684
00:36:04,676 --> 00:36:09,116
Speaker 1: story your love story of you and Danielle has high

685
00:36:09,236 --> 00:36:13,356
Speaker 1: school sweethearts and you have this fabulously handsome best friend

686
00:36:13,836 --> 00:36:15,796
Speaker 1: you know, who is there along the way to coax

687
00:36:15,916 --> 00:36:18,756
Speaker 1: you and to give you an extra dolca Black culture

688
00:36:18,756 --> 00:36:21,556
Speaker 1: and legitimacy so that you can woo this beautiful black

689
00:36:21,596 --> 00:36:23,756
Speaker 1: woman you know, who will one day gone to be

690
00:36:23,836 --> 00:36:27,356
Speaker 1: your bride. And you all have a few amazing interracial children.

691
00:36:27,516 --> 00:36:29,636
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, this is an amazing story.

692
00:36:30,316 --> 00:36:32,436
Speaker 2: I hope that they're like, you know, Hollywood people are

693
00:36:32,436 --> 00:36:34,436
Speaker 2: listening to this, you know, at least the Netflix people,

694
00:36:34,996 --> 00:36:36,916
Speaker 2: you know. And one of the first scenes is you

695
00:36:36,996 --> 00:36:41,436
Speaker 2: might remember this that when when we're going off to

696
00:36:41,516 --> 00:36:43,956
Speaker 2: college and we're having our final dinner together.

697
00:36:44,196 --> 00:36:46,756
Speaker 1: Do you mean our story and our Ben Danielle and

698
00:36:46,796 --> 00:36:47,436
Speaker 1: Khalil story.

699
00:36:47,516 --> 00:36:49,996
Speaker 2: Yeah, in real life. Do you remember where we went?

700
00:36:51,636 --> 00:36:52,956
Speaker 1: Did we go to Red Lobster?

701
00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:55,476
Speaker 2: So Danielle and I are going to Red Lobster because

702
00:36:55,516 --> 00:36:58,436
Speaker 2: that was like fancy for us. And you just no

703
00:36:58,596 --> 00:37:01,316
Speaker 2: cell phones or whatever. You just happened to show up

704
00:37:01,436 --> 00:37:02,676
Speaker 2: like the quirky best friend.

705
00:37:02,836 --> 00:37:04,956
Speaker 1: Like you just happen to show up. I held like

706
00:37:05,036 --> 00:37:06,476
Speaker 1: forty five minutes.

707
00:37:06,236 --> 00:37:08,996
Speaker 2: But me like, imail you to cover anything. But you know,

708
00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:13,396
Speaker 2: so I actually I actually have a happy ending in

709
00:37:13,436 --> 00:37:14,036
Speaker 2: a way.

710
00:37:14,116 --> 00:37:14,756
Speaker 1: I have one too.

711
00:37:14,796 --> 00:37:19,436
Speaker 2: You go through all of this that that just coincidentally.

712
00:37:20,236 --> 00:37:25,396
Speaker 2: Kanye tweeted this weekend that he now loves Jewish people again.

713
00:37:25,596 --> 00:37:28,236
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, and the reason is Jonah Hill.

714
00:37:29,276 --> 00:37:32,396
Speaker 1: Wow, he bore some Jewish therapy.

715
00:37:32,676 --> 00:37:35,396
Speaker 2: Like, but what's funny? It was seeing Jonah Hill in

716
00:37:35,436 --> 00:37:38,076
Speaker 2: a movie. But it wasn't this movie. It wasn't It

717
00:37:38,116 --> 00:37:40,836
Speaker 2: wasn't you people. It was twenty one Jump Street.

718
00:37:40,996 --> 00:37:47,596
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. I don't know if that actually that's true.

719
00:37:48,316 --> 00:37:50,676
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means good things no bad

720
00:37:50,716 --> 00:37:53,036
Speaker 1: things on the horizon for Kanye.

721
00:37:53,276 --> 00:37:56,316
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't put a lot of my sedaka

722
00:37:56,356 --> 00:37:58,636
Speaker 2: in his in him.

723
00:37:58,956 --> 00:38:02,196
Speaker 1: Well, my happy ending is this. You guys got married

724
00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:03,876
Speaker 1: how many years ago?

725
00:38:03,916 --> 00:38:07,956
Speaker 2: Now? Twenty almost twenty almost.

726
00:38:07,716 --> 00:38:11,436
Speaker 1: Twenty years ago, And just so our listeners know that

727
00:38:11,436 --> 00:38:14,876
Speaker 1: that crash date at Red Lobster led to me being

728
00:38:14,956 --> 00:38:18,916
Speaker 1: the only person who was invited to their wedding in

729
00:38:18,996 --> 00:38:23,156
Speaker 1: New York City at City Hall on a random I believe,

730
00:38:23,276 --> 00:38:28,956
Speaker 1: November day, beautiful Chili day. I was the best man.

731
00:38:29,316 --> 00:38:32,476
Speaker 1: I was the matron of honor because I was married

732
00:38:32,516 --> 00:38:36,116
Speaker 1: at that time. I was the photographer, the witness. I

733
00:38:36,236 --> 00:38:37,676
Speaker 1: was your only reception date.

734
00:38:38,356 --> 00:38:40,676
Speaker 2: When you showed up were I said, meet us at

735
00:38:40,676 --> 00:38:42,676
Speaker 2: the foot of Brooklyn Bridge because we were going to

736
00:38:42,676 --> 00:38:43,956
Speaker 2: get you know, we were going to get married at

737
00:38:43,956 --> 00:38:45,476
Speaker 2: City Hall, but I didn't tell you. I tell you.

738
00:38:45,516 --> 00:38:47,756
Speaker 2: I said that I want you to take some holiday photographs.

739
00:38:47,916 --> 00:38:48,436
Speaker 1: That's right.

740
00:38:48,476 --> 00:38:50,716
Speaker 2: And then you showed up with all your cameras because

741
00:38:50,716 --> 00:38:53,236
Speaker 2: you know, you're the son of a Pulitzer Prize winning photographer,

742
00:38:53,276 --> 00:38:55,756
Speaker 2: you'd like twelve cameras. And you looked at us and

743
00:38:55,756 --> 00:38:57,676
Speaker 2: you were like, they're a little bit more dressed up

744
00:38:57,676 --> 00:38:59,516
Speaker 2: and Ben is carrying a bouquet and like all this

745
00:38:59,556 --> 00:39:02,716
Speaker 2: other stuff and your hands started to shake and you

746
00:39:02,836 --> 00:39:03,756
Speaker 2: just started to cry.

747
00:39:04,356 --> 00:39:05,956
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a special moment.

748
00:39:06,036 --> 00:39:06,956
Speaker 2: So it was a great moment.

749
00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:10,716
Speaker 1: Yeah, well man, this was This was a really great conversation.

750
00:39:11,076 --> 00:39:14,876
Speaker 1: We touched on some important themes, not only in cinematic history,

751
00:39:15,156 --> 00:39:18,356
Speaker 1: but also in how much more work needs to be

752
00:39:18,396 --> 00:39:21,516
Speaker 1: done in trying to capture what it means to do

753
00:39:21,596 --> 00:39:24,796
Speaker 1: interracial love in a rom com or a drama or

754
00:39:24,836 --> 00:39:28,396
Speaker 1: anything else on the big screen. All right, all right,

755
00:39:28,596 --> 00:39:28,956
Speaker 1: love you.

756
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:34,356
Speaker 2: Man, Love you too.

757
00:39:36,156 --> 00:39:38,516
Speaker 1: Some of My Best Friends Are is a production of

758
00:39:38,596 --> 00:39:42,516
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. The show is written and hosted by me Khalil,

759
00:39:42,596 --> 00:39:45,156
Speaker 1: Jabron Muhammad and my best friend Ben Austin.

760
00:39:45,516 --> 00:39:49,036
Speaker 2: This show is produced by Lucy Sullivan. It's edited by

761
00:39:49,116 --> 00:39:52,956
Speaker 2: Sarah Nix with help from Keshel Williams. Our engineer is

762
00:39:52,996 --> 00:39:59,916
Speaker 2: Amanda Kwang, and our managing producer is Constanza Gallardo at Pushkin.

763
00:40:00,116 --> 00:40:05,036
Speaker 1: Thanks to Leitol Molad, Julia Barton, Heather Faine, Carly Migliori,

764
00:40:05,436 --> 00:40:09,076
Speaker 1: John schnarz Retta Cone, and Jacob Weisberg.

765
00:40:09,636 --> 00:40:13,396
Speaker 2: Our theme song, Little Lily, is by fellow chicagoan The

766
00:40:13,476 --> 00:40:17,396
Speaker 2: brilliant Avery R. Young from his album Tubman. You definitely

767
00:40:17,436 --> 00:40:20,436
Speaker 2: want to check out his music at his website Averyaryong

768
00:40:20,516 --> 00:40:21,756
Speaker 2: dot com.

769
00:40:21,836 --> 00:40:25,476
Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin on all social platforms at pushkin pods,

770
00:40:25,836 --> 00:40:28,396
Speaker 1: and you can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin

771
00:40:28,476 --> 00:40:32,356
Speaker 1: dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the

772
00:40:32,396 --> 00:40:36,356
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.

773
00:40:36,676 --> 00:40:39,076
Speaker 2: And if you like our show, please give us a

774
00:40:39,116 --> 00:40:41,716
Speaker 2: five star rating and a review and listen. Even if

775
00:40:41,716 --> 00:40:43,356
Speaker 2: you don't like it, give it a five star rating

776
00:40:43,356 --> 00:40:46,276
Speaker 2: and a review, and please tell all of your best

777
00:40:46,276 --> 00:40:47,036
Speaker 2: friends about it.

778
00:40:47,436 --> 00:40:57,676
Speaker 3: Thank you.

779
00:41:00,636 --> 00:41:04,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, and new people. There's definitely no passover Sata, but

780
00:41:04,356 --> 00:41:07,196
Speaker 2: here's a little taste of my family sat this year.

781
00:41:07,436 --> 00:41:12,556
Speaker 5: Our story begins with degreation, our telling ends with glory.

782
00:41:13,516 --> 00:41:18,476
Speaker 2: We are slaves in Egypt and were gods from where

783
00:41:19,276 --> 00:41:29,476
Speaker 2: lad struct our ancestors out of Egypt. We are our children, children, children,