Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. We've got
Speaker 1: a classic for you tonight. Pyramids. Oh man, pyramids, love.
Speaker 2: Them, you let you know them, You made me love them.
Speaker 2: They're pretty cool. How did they get there.
Speaker 3: In all of the places where they are? Right?
Speaker 1: We usually think of Egypt, but longtime listeners with this show,
Speaker 1: you know that the world is full of pyramids of
Speaker 1: plenty and sometimes. Back in twenty nineteen we were recording this,
Speaker 1: we were learning that sometimes those pyramids can be overgrown
Speaker 1: and you can easily miss them. As it crazy as
Speaker 1: it might sound, So things like light our technology can
Speaker 1: help people discover, whoops, what looks to be a hill
Speaker 1: is actually a man made structure. Pre nice.
Speaker 3: Just there's so many rumors of pyramids being exactly what
Speaker 3: you're saying, been like some mountain or hill that so
Speaker 3: just just always been there and made structures in them
Speaker 3: hills maybe, yeah, maybe? And could they even be in Alaska?
Speaker 1: Let's find out.
Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff.
Speaker 3: Works welcome back to the show. My name is Matt
Speaker 3: Noel is here in spirit.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission controlled decand most importantly, you
Speaker 1: are you. You are here and that makes this stuff.
Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. For a check in, Matt,
Speaker 1: I know usually I ask I ask you first, but
Speaker 1: I just want to say I have to interject. I
Speaker 1: am so glad to see you, man. Yeah, it's been
Speaker 1: too long.
Speaker 3: It has been we you know, for any of you
Speaker 3: that don't know out there, let's just give him a
Speaker 3: little behind the curtain. We record three times a week
Speaker 3: this show, so we usually have a time like time
Speaker 3: to be together in a room talking, catching up before
Speaker 3: recording and everything. And it has been notes all the time.
Speaker 3: We are friends outside of this magical, darkened room where
Speaker 3: we record. Yeah, so not having that has been it's
Speaker 3: not been great.
Speaker 1: So I'm weird.
Speaker 3: Also happy to see you, sir.
Speaker 1: Thanks man. It feels good. Yeah, yeah, it was. Let's
Speaker 1: see Paul and I were in Texas and then we're
Speaker 1: in Chicago for a second, and I am hopefully by
Speaker 1: the time all our fellow listeners hear this, I will
Speaker 1: have returned from Brussels.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 1: I'm going there tomorrow as we record this.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: But we'll still be able to record the morning tomorrow
Speaker 1: because we have just to tease a bit. We have
Speaker 1: a very interesting interview on the way. We have no
Speaker 1: idea how this is gonna go. Yeah, we should probably
Speaker 1: talk about that after we record today.
Speaker 3: This is it solid happening tomorrow?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Really so yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, should we tease it? Yeah, let
Speaker 3: me say it? Should we say it? Reptilians, the crown,
Speaker 3: what else? Awakening the lion within?
Speaker 1: Oh? There we go, deep cuts? Good job man. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it looks like we are interviewing David Ike.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we made an episode about not that long ago.
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope I didn't jinx us saying that.
Speaker 1: But that's if you are a longtime listener to this show,
Speaker 1: or you're a fellow a conspiracy realist, you are aware
Speaker 1: of the the more let's I don't want to I
Speaker 1: don't know. Prominent maybe yeah, uh controvert. He he gets
Speaker 1: a lot of press and he's been a prolific author
Speaker 1: for quite a while. Uh so we are somehow going
Speaker 1: to be speaking with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: I'm excited. I hope, I hope we do all right, because,
Speaker 1: as you know, there are a couple of times where
Speaker 1: I've felt that, uh, you know, we didn't quite get
Speaker 1: one hundred percent where we should have been on interviews.
Speaker 3: Well, well we're going to get there. And just the
Speaker 3: concept of what he experienced when he was younger and
Speaker 3: then went on television and told the world about it.
Speaker 3: That that concept of somehow at least believing that you've
Speaker 3: been gifted a message from some higher power throughout history
Speaker 3: that's been happening to human beings Like I am so
Speaker 3: fascinated by that. I really hope he's willing to go
Speaker 3: deep there and talk about that. I cannot wait. It
Speaker 3: really is something I've been hoping would happen on this
Speaker 3: show and through this show, that we would get to
Speaker 3: speak with him at some point. It took a while,
Speaker 3: but we got there.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So for everyone who has asked that we speak
Speaker 1: with David Ike, hopefully we will do you proud. I am,
Speaker 1: as you know, Matt, I am, I am hype adverse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: We'll see. I just gotta, you know, I just gotta
Speaker 1: make it through my shady international stuff. That's that's what
Speaker 1: I'm thinking. So I guess great, Great, We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: to David ike that I'm off the grid for a minute,
Speaker 1: but I will be back. Yes, And we're doing live
Speaker 1: shows in Atlanta. Yeah, you and I. And now now
Speaker 1: with all that update, all that prolog, I have to ask,
Speaker 1: how how are you doing? Man? I almost almost I
Speaker 1: must send you some prank text when I was at
Speaker 1: the Alamo, but decided against it.
Speaker 3: Oh, Man, I would have accepted. I'm doing really well.
Speaker 3: You know, everything in my life is focused on my son,
Speaker 3: and we're doing this thing where every morning he makes
Speaker 3: a picture of a letter and then we talk about
Speaker 3: what that letter is, and then the whole day is
Speaker 3: about that letter. It's so cool, so like walking around
Speaker 3: going to the grocery store pointing out things that are
Speaker 3: like start with B. It's so it's so much fun,
Speaker 3: and it sounds mundane and silly. I can't tell you
Speaker 3: how much I love it. That's that's what's going on
Speaker 3: with me. Ben, That's great. I want to ask you
Speaker 3: how you're doing personally and with what's going on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I have a feeling you would respond no comment Okay,
Speaker 3: so let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and get into
Speaker 3: the episode. Everyone, we're talking pyramids.
Speaker 1: Today, right, Yes, pyramids. Pyramids some of the oldest known
Speaker 1: structures built by human so far as we know. And
Speaker 1: these structures have also captivated human beings, not just in
Speaker 1: the recent days when they are seen as mysterious and enigmatic,
Speaker 1: but during the times that they were built, right and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially coming across Let's say you're walking along a river.
Speaker 3: You're following a river in exploration of some kind, and
Speaker 3: out in the distance you see something towering and it
Speaker 3: has sharp angles to it, which you don't find anywhere
Speaker 3: in nature. And as you get closer, you realize how
Speaker 3: large this structure is.
Speaker 1: It's not just a mountain in the middle of the desert.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fascinating to put ourselves back in space and time.
Speaker 1: In a previous episode, we explored these stories of pyramids
Speaker 1: in other parts of the world, which is a real
Speaker 1: it's a real thing, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: one of the earliest pyramids we know about would be
Speaker 1: the Ziggurats in Mesopotamia, right, absolutely, Uh, they don't get
Speaker 1: a lot of street cred. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people never heard of Mesopotamia until Ghostbusters came out in
Speaker 1: the eighties. Or no, no, no, maybe the Exorcist.
Speaker 3: To be fair, Oh there you go.
Speaker 1: Because isn't Pazuzu. Maybe Pezusu is Samarrian.
Speaker 3: It all sounds familiar.
Speaker 1: It all sounds familiar, right. So in that episode, we
Speaker 1: we explore what pyramids are, get into the architecture of
Speaker 1: the structures, how they're typically built, and so on, and
Speaker 1: we talk about how there are multiple different kinds of pyramids. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this this reminded me of a conversation that was
Speaker 1: a little tangential, but I thought you would enjoy. I
Speaker 1: saw one of those Internet hypotheticals right when it was
Speaker 1: it hypothetical questions your friends post on the Internet, and
Speaker 1: it said, okay, here's the gist. If someone gave you
Speaker 1: ten million dollar right now, cash in hand, with the
Speaker 1: following caveats, would you take the money. Here are the caveats. One,
Speaker 1: a snail will follow you for the rest of your life. Two,
Speaker 1: if the snail touches you, you will die. And then
Speaker 1: there were a couple other snail related things. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: first question with that was, well, what type of snail?
Speaker 1: Because they're not all. You know, when we see the
Speaker 1: word snail, we all think of like the same crenelated
Speaker 1: shell and the you know, the the like living booger
Speaker 1: that crawls around under it. But there are different sorts
Speaker 1: of snails, and there are different sorts of pyramids. So
Speaker 1: the thing that is interesting about this for our purpose
Speaker 1: is that there's so many misconceptions about pyramids. Right. People think,
Speaker 1: when we think of a pyramid, we think of the
Speaker 1: angular structure you're describing. I love that moment you took
Speaker 1: us back to where there's someone maybe living a hunter
Speaker 1: gatherer lifestyle or something, and they're they're walking along the
Speaker 1: river and then they see the seat of human civilization.
Speaker 3: It's breathtaking and they don't get immediately killed by the
Speaker 3: security forces or of some kind, right, right.
Speaker 1: Or the crocodiles or the other wildlife. Yes. Uh So
Speaker 1: when we think of pyramids, we think of pyramids in Egypt,
Speaker 1: located in uh northern Africa.
Speaker 3: And it's all because of the movie Stargate, just.
Speaker 1: Completely because of the movie Stark, which is an amazing
Speaker 1: documentary it is. So it's strangely because as we found,
Speaker 1: there are pyramids and other parts of the world, right.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, they're not just in Egypt. We in our
Speaker 3: previous episodes we found them in South America. We or
Speaker 3: we knew that they were in South America. We also
Speaker 3: found them in Africa, parts of Asia. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: it's fascinating, and we keep talking about this because anytime
Speaker 3: we bring up pyramids, you just get back to the
Speaker 3: question of why, Like why, why the heck, why did
Speaker 3: you do it that way? What is it? Why? Why
Speaker 3: did you do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my favorite part too. You know, like obelisk
Speaker 1: these are weird. Remember when we went to uh we
Speaker 1: went up to d C. And we filmed some stuff
Speaker 1: about the Washington Monument. Yes, which once upon a time
Speaker 1: was going to be you know, a statue of George Washington,
Speaker 1: but now it's you know, it's this ridiculously phallic thing
Speaker 1: you can crawl up inside of and reach the top.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, the tip, I don't know that's.
Speaker 3: What it's all about. But really, the just that that
Speaker 3: that concept is still baffling to me. With all the
Speaker 3: varying types, like you're talking about the ziggarettes, the you know,
Speaker 3: the more angular pyramids, the stepped pyramids, all these things,
Speaker 3: it's just they're so symbolic and I think outwardly embolic
Speaker 3: of something to have that shape. It also goes back to,
Speaker 3: you know, the construction process of you know, building up
Speaker 3: in that way, right, right, But still it's just I
Speaker 3: don't know, there's something so mysterious about it.
Speaker 1: It's true. Yet we know that we know that the
Speaker 1: primary purposes of pyramids and pyramid like structures I would
Speaker 1: also include maybe mounds in the North American continent. We
Speaker 1: know that the primary purposes tended to be spiritual or funereal. Right,
Speaker 1: these are gigantic tombs taj Mahal's style, or these are
Speaker 1: in the case of some zig rats, holy sites, sacred
Speaker 1: sites of worship wherein rituals are enacted.
Speaker 3: At least that's our best understanding from the work of
Speaker 3: archaeology in our.
Speaker 1: Rights, right, the work of some brilliant archaeologists, and then
Speaker 1: also the work of some just morally bankrupt ones back
Speaker 1: in the day. And then that's you know, like the
Speaker 1: racism that gave rise later first to the idea of
Speaker 1: law civilizations and then later to the idea of extraterrestrials.
Speaker 1: Because the people and we have to hit this fact.
Speaker 1: The people who wrote a lot of early early stories
Speaker 1: about discovering these different amazing structures in different parts of
Speaker 1: the world. They they were somehow, on some level offended
Speaker 1: by the idea that the ancestors of the local people
Speaker 1: could have built those. Yeah, so there you have it.
Speaker 1: We know that that's the craziest thing we know that pyramids,
Speaker 1: despite being ancient, the ancient pyramids and structures we talked about,
Speaker 1: remain controversial today, not just because of the institutionalized discrimination
Speaker 1: and stuff, but also because people continued to claim that
Speaker 1: they have discovered more ancient pyramids.
Speaker 3: Thanks to Google Earth.
Speaker 1: May don't you know? I love Google Earth and Light Are.
Speaker 3: I know that's true? We will, we all do. They're
Speaker 3: amazing tools. It just it gives an opportunity to at
Speaker 3: least search from behind a computer screen the entire planet
Speaker 3: for things that look angular are out of place, or
Speaker 3: square rectangular.
Speaker 1: Right. And it's not to say that these things don't
Speaker 1: exist somewhere in the world, because in many parts of
Speaker 1: the world, the surrounding ecosystem will eat everything made by man.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You can build something in
Speaker 1: a jungle and it can just for all intents and purposes,
Speaker 1: it can vanish. Yeah, and I think you know, you
Speaker 1: and I probably both still check in to see how
Speaker 1: many new ruins or ancient sites are found just in
Speaker 1: the Amazon alone, because a ton so. So we know
Speaker 1: that these things do exist, but we also know that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of exaggeration and a lot of hyperbole
Speaker 1: involved in these claims. Generally, these discoveries become controversial for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, and it's not it's not a
Speaker 1: case of you know, someone pretending to be a scientist
Speaker 1: in lyne or selling snake oil, as is so often
Speaker 1: the case in a lot of scientific research. The scientists,
Speaker 1: the archaeologist, the experts. They say one thing, maybe in
Speaker 1: a relatively obscure journal of some sort, and then someone
Speaker 1: someone else says, hey, this would be a great headline
Speaker 1: for my my blog, my my pop culture news thing, right,
Speaker 1: my fringe website, my French website. Sure, and then then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, what the scientists really we're saying
Speaker 1: gets convoluted and telephoned into something different. And that's where
Speaker 1: we get into these claims of ancient hitherto unknown civilizations,
Speaker 1: or they try to find something that is a selling
Speaker 1: point for a pyramid, because in mainstream news or infringe
Speaker 1: websites just saying, hey, here is a pyramid found that
Speaker 1: confirms long held beliefs that this group of people lived
Speaker 1: in this way, yes, or this crop or et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. We want want some apurbole, you know, we
Speaker 1: want some superlatives, like when you graduate high school.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and the reader and or listener or whoever
Speaker 3: I think is just my opinion, wants to have that
Speaker 3: discovery moment, that Eureka moment where it's oh, civilization was older,
Speaker 3: or civilization did exist in this part of the world,
Speaker 3: or you know that kind of I don't even know
Speaker 3: exactly what it is. It's that it's a mystery being solved, right,
Speaker 3: and you want that answer even if it doesn't even
Speaker 3: if it's a question that you weren't even really asking
Speaker 3: in that moment, but you see the potential for this
Speaker 3: answer to a cool thing. I'm not sure I'm assuing that, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We like we like patterns and solutions. Yeah, we like
Speaker 1: seeing uh, we like seeing the bridge between concept day
Speaker 1: and concept be Human beings are all about connection, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think I think that's a I think that's profoundly
Speaker 1: a stupe man because now we're talking about psychological drive,
Speaker 1: and so what what does this what does this drive
Speaker 1: mean when we read about pyramids.
Speaker 3: Well, it means, like you said, there are all these claims, uh,
Speaker 3: that this is the oldest one. Here's the biggest revelation
Speaker 3: that you're going to get with regards to this whole thing,
Speaker 3: and we're going to give it to you right now,
Speaker 3: such as let's say it's let's say it's nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: six and you're at the endepend and you get a
Speaker 3: you know, a tip about some seashell constructions in Brazil,
Speaker 3: and you post it up and you put a title
Speaker 3: that says something like world's oldest pyramids are discovered in Brazil.
Speaker 3: But that's literally all you have to put at the title.
Speaker 3: That's what they put, world's oldest pyramids are discovered.
Speaker 1: Right, Because with this kind of reporting, people love seeing
Speaker 1: an st an eest, the big st, the old st
Speaker 1: the strange s, right, And so when we see the
Speaker 1: world's oldest pyramid, we think, what Brazil? That is definitely
Speaker 1: not Egypt. So the story with this is interesting because
Speaker 1: this is just one of a pattern of oldest pyramid claims. Right.
Speaker 1: The Brazil Pyramids date back to two thousand BC three
Speaker 1: thousand or BCE, whatever you prefer. And the construction techniques
Speaker 1: are different, because again, not every pyramid is created equal.
Speaker 1: These are as, you said, met built of seashells, and
Speaker 1: they were built over a long period of time. But
Speaker 1: for I think starting in maybe nineteen ninety two or so,
Speaker 1: about four years for the articles published, teams of researchers
Speaker 1: based in the area had been trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what was up with these things because they had been
Speaker 1: largely deconstructed.
Speaker 3: Yes, or broken down, right, that's just over through natural
Speaker 3: processes and stuff, or you know, destroyed, right, And they
Speaker 3: were literally called in that article the remnants were called
Speaker 3: piles of ancient rubbish.
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly. Yeah, they were deliberately built. But while archaeologists
Speaker 1: estimate there used to be a ton of them, a
Speaker 1: thousand pyramids, there are some thousands and thousands of years old,
Speaker 1: only ten percent survive in any recognizable way. They thought
Speaker 1: the structures were one hundred and sixty feet high with
Speaker 1: bases that were up to thirty seven acres, So this
Speaker 1: makes them much bigger than the earliest examples in Egypt,
Speaker 1: not as high, and also they took a long long
Speaker 1: time to build, so that's a claim, and that's a
Speaker 1: fairly reputable claim. The one thing that makes it different
Speaker 1: when you really think about pyramids in Egypt is that
Speaker 1: pyramids in Egypt have survived in not the best condition.
Speaker 1: But as pyramids go, they're top notch, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. They are what fans of classic cars call
Speaker 1: cherry condition, rightes. Yeah, So unfortunately a lot of the
Speaker 1: pyramids in Brazil are not like that. They don't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: But now you can claim that's the this is the
Speaker 1: oldest pyramid.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, And again, when you're establishing the age of
Speaker 3: something like that, let's say the primary construction is made
Speaker 3: of seashells. The mode of determining the age of those
Speaker 3: is to then carbon date somehow the structure or whatever
Speaker 3: is made up of those things. And if you're dealing
Speaker 3: with seashells, I guess by carbondating the shells themselves is
Speaker 3: how you get that number or that range. But still
Speaker 3: there's so much variance there. I guess that's why you
Speaker 3: have something like some of these are two thousand, three
Speaker 3: thousand years old, some of them are up to five
Speaker 3: thousand years.
Speaker 1: Old, and those estimates to get so ballparky at some point,
Speaker 1: you know, oh yeah, speaking of one could say, however
Speaker 1: that you know what, the margin on the margin on
Speaker 1: the dating process here may be pretty large, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't invalidate everything. So sorry, Egypt, that's it. Brazil has.
Speaker 1: What we now know is Brazil has the oldest pyramids.
Speaker 1: But this was not the only claim for the oldest pyramid.
Speaker 1: The debate continues today. We'll tell you more about it
Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3: We're back and we're going to jump to a different
Speaker 3: part of the world in a different time. Oh yes,
Speaker 3: so we were in the nineties ninety six to be exact.
Speaker 3: Let's jump to just a couple of years ago, twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: and in Kazakhstan.
Speaker 1: That's right, man. In twenty sixteen, a report came from
Speaker 1: an archaeologist working at the Kazakh Nash University, a fellow
Speaker 1: named Victor novel Zanov. This apologies for the most pronunciation there.
Speaker 1: He claimed that specialist working at the Sayakinski Archaeology Institute
Speaker 1: in Kargandha, Kazakhstan, led by a guy named Igor Kukushkin,
Speaker 1: had discovered the world's oldest pyramid in wait for it, Kazakhstan.
Speaker 3: There we go there, we go, and that's another oldest
Speaker 3: pyramid and it's you know, it's another one of these
Speaker 3: super captivating headlines, captivating stories. The headline itself was world's
Speaker 3: oldest pyramid was found and it's in Kazakhstan. That was
Speaker 3: from Nature World News, so, you know, slightly different publication,
Speaker 3: but still it's that same kind of title that's just
Speaker 3: going to get your attention. So it's believed to be
Speaker 3: built roughly one thousand years earlier than some of the
Speaker 3: more prominent pyramids that are found in Egypt. Yeah, a
Speaker 3: thousand years before that is that it's pretty significant if
Speaker 3: if that's proven right. So it's located in this place
Speaker 3: called the Sariyaka Steps and it's near the city of Karaganda.
Speaker 3: It's like three nine hundred miles northeast of Cairo, Egypt.
Speaker 3: You know, that's that's a long way. That's a frea comparison,
Speaker 3: really long way. And you know, it's similar in appearance
Speaker 3: to some of the other pyramids that exists there, the
Speaker 3: Pyramid of Dozer or jo Jozer. I don't know how
Speaker 3: to pronounce any of those things. I'm sorry, but again
Speaker 3: it's really interesting. You can find the article on it
Speaker 3: if if you go and look and you know, there's
Speaker 3: more you can find here.
Speaker 1: It popped up on It popped up in a couple
Speaker 1: of places in twenty sixteen that you know, Yahoo wrote
Speaker 1: about it. You can also find this statement from novel
Speaker 1: Zanov who believes that this was This is what they
Speaker 1: call a step pyramid, so it doesn't have that complete
Speaker 1: flat angle, yes, like a pyramid of Giza or something,
Speaker 1: but he believes it was a Moslem built for a
Speaker 1: local king. Still, the age of it seems legit, but
Speaker 1: does that make it the oldest pyramid or structure of
Speaker 1: this type, No, say researchers. In Indonesia. You see geophysicist
Speaker 1: Danny Hillman not the with Jaja. And again, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you to everyone who tuned into our episode on
Speaker 1: the Arang Minyac Errang Mignac and told us that if
Speaker 1: our pronunciation was terrible, at least it was endearing and amusing. Yes,
Speaker 1: so hopefully that's what we're going for here, folks improv rules. Yeah,
Speaker 1: This geophysicist based on the Indonesian Institute of Sciences analyzed
Speaker 1: a site called Gunong Padang in Java in Indonesia, and
Speaker 1: they said that this thing that people thought was just
Speaker 1: a weird hill for a long long time was actually
Speaker 1: a pyramid, and a very very old pyramid. This is,
Speaker 1: by the way, one of the more well researched claims
Speaker 1: at this point. Yes, which is not a ding on
Speaker 1: the other pyramids. This is just to say that the
Speaker 1: site in Indonesia and the team in Indonesia had more
Speaker 1: time to spend and access to better tech.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did. They had ground penetrating radar and a
Speaker 3: couple other things. And they also took photographs of the
Speaker 3: site and published them and made them available so that
Speaker 3: you could see You could really see it rather than
Speaker 3: just being you know, some text on a website somewhere
Speaker 3: that always lends credibility. If you go to science alert
Speaker 3: dot com, you can find some images, some aerial photographs
Speaker 3: that were taken and some like closer up to the structures.
Speaker 3: It's it's really fascinating to see. I don't know this one.
Speaker 3: This one gets me.
Speaker 1: This is compelling, Yeah, this is compelling. This What's strange
Speaker 1: about this one is that while it was presented in
Speaker 1: an academic setting, I think on December twelfth at the
Speaker 1: Annual Media in the American Geophysical Union, it was still
Speaker 1: considered highly controversial, but the research is compelling. You can
Speaker 1: you can read it in depth if you just if
Speaker 1: you just check it out online. It looks like there
Speaker 1: were four separate layers and they were built over thousands
Speaker 1: of years. So the first layer, the one that we
Speaker 1: would consider the surface, looks to be about three thousand
Speaker 1: and five hundred years old. The second layer, however, looks
Speaker 1: to be eight thousand years old. And then they get
Speaker 1: to the really crazy stuff. This is where it becomes
Speaker 1: super controversial, right, Yeah, the third layer, according to their estimate,
Speaker 1: is somewhere between nine thousand and twenty eight thousand years old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand.
Speaker 3: I mean maybe honestly, maybe maybe we just don't know yet, man,
Speaker 3: But that seems a bit of a stretch. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's pretty crazy if you look at it too. They've
Speaker 3: got an example of the layering. This shows you all
Speaker 3: the different ones in the structure and how it looks.
Speaker 3: And that initial peer, the initial layer that you're talking about,
Speaker 3: the one that's that has that range of age. It
Speaker 3: is the most sharply angled, the most basic pyramid struck
Speaker 3: sure like part of the entire thing. And you know,
Speaker 3: if that truly could have been built, even just at
Speaker 3: the minimum of that number nine thousand years ago. That
Speaker 3: is so significant for humanity and the history you know,
Speaker 3: of bipedal intelligent things walking around on this earth. That's
Speaker 3: pretty dang cool.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get to Indonesia one day, man,
Speaker 1: there's so much history there that we just don't know
Speaker 1: about in the West, you know. So one thing we
Speaker 1: do have to say about this, about this site is
Speaker 1: that when I mentioned that the research was considered controversial,
Speaker 1: I mean it's a ton of people are criticizing the
Speaker 1: team's conclusions and their methods. They're very much going hard
Speaker 1: on the paint with this. Right now, the presentations that
Speaker 1: they've made remain non peer reviewed, which is a big
Speaker 1: criticism by their opponent. But time will tell, right, the
Speaker 1: wheels of archaeology grind slow but exceedingly fine, if we're paraphrasing,
Speaker 1: And they've been at this since twenty thirteen, so it
Speaker 1: looks like they're giving it a serious go. And this
Speaker 1: is not going to be the last ancient site that's found,
Speaker 1: right absolutely, so we know that there may be even
Speaker 1: older stuff out there. And the idea, you know, it's
Speaker 1: almost it's almost the wrong way to phrase the question
Speaker 1: when we say, let's search for the oldest man made thing,
Speaker 1: because there are so many things we don't know. Let's
Speaker 1: just search for all the old stuff. That's what we
Speaker 1: need to do, right, because so much of it has
Speaker 1: already disappeared. But this leads us to I mean, we
Speaker 1: had a long preamble here, but this leads us to
Speaker 1: something that I think captivated us. You hipped me to this, Matt.
Speaker 1: More and more people have started to claim that Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Brazil,
Speaker 1: that they have nothing on the true old structures, that
Speaker 1: there are much much older pyramids out there in some
Speaker 1: of the world's most remote locales. We always think of
Speaker 1: Egypt when it comes to pyramids, But what about Alaska?
Speaker 3: And we'll talk about that right after a word from
Speaker 3: our sponsor.
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. It's true, fellow conspiracy realists.
Speaker 1: In recent years, various groups have claimed pyramids created by
Speaker 1: some unknown civilization can be found in both Alaska and Antarctica.
Speaker 1: Now we've explored the Antarctica theory briefly before.
Speaker 3: Yes, we have, and but before you even get into that,
Speaker 3: let's let's establish here just the concept of general belief
Speaker 3: in how humanity began, you know, in the fertile Crescent
Speaker 3: in parts of Africa, exactly where where the rivers were,
Speaker 3: where the water was, where the the land again was fertile,
Speaker 3: and people could survive more easily, let's say, even though
Speaker 3: life was a struggle, and then humanity spread out from there,
Speaker 3: going to all corners of the earth over over the
Speaker 3: course of time. Right. So when you introduce an idea
Speaker 3: that perhaps there's an even older version of humanity that
Speaker 3: existed in some other part of the world, that's that's
Speaker 3: why it's such a controversial idea because it goes against
Speaker 3: the basic understandings that are that are generally accepted.
Speaker 1: I see. That's a good point because you know, the
Speaker 1: most popular theory for human human arrival in North and
Speaker 1: South America as we call them today is the crossing
Speaker 1: the Bearing Strait via the Bearing Land Bridge, which was
Speaker 1: about twenty thousand years ago, I think. So the issue
Speaker 1: with that is, for instance, there's a twenty eight thousand
Speaker 1: year old pyramid in Indonesia. The issue with this idea
Speaker 1: of a pyramid in Alaska is how is one of
Speaker 1: pure resources and timeline? Right, Because if you notice a
Speaker 1: lot of these pyramids that we've mentioned in other parts
Speaker 1: of the world are built in more human friendly environments,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So the idea of pyramids
Speaker 1: being built in these freezing areas, it seems like something
Speaker 1: that would turn our understanding of history completely on its
Speaker 1: head if this were true. So what about Antarctica. Let's
Speaker 1: just do it quick and dirt.
Speaker 3: Okay, we talked about this for check out the other
Speaker 3: episode if you have time. Let's just say in nineteen
Speaker 3: you know, Tennish, the early nineteen tens, the teens there too,
Speaker 3: some British explorers were hanging out in Antarctica. They were
Speaker 3: looking around, going, this is pretty desolate, Barren. I'm not
Speaker 3: seeing much here. Until they saw rock, nice pointy rock,
Speaker 3: and they said, hey, let's put this on our map.
Speaker 3: It's a pyramid. It's the pyramid rock. It's a type
Speaker 3: of a pyramid.
Speaker 1: Great, Finally that's what it is.
Speaker 3: You know, it was probably some kind of natural formation
Speaker 3: or you know, from shearing from ice or something. Generally,
Speaker 3: let's say that that's probably what it was. Isn't necessarily
Speaker 3: exactly what it was or who knows what they found?
Speaker 3: There may be a mystery out there in Antarctica still
Speaker 3: with the old pyramid rock. We haven't been able to
Speaker 3: find it thus far, neither of us have been to Antarctica.
Speaker 3: But this, let's call it a seed. This concept of oh,
Speaker 3: there's a pyramid on this map of Antarctica, somebody labeled
Speaker 3: that that becomes a catalyst for all kinds of stories.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: Yes, some were admittedly fiction, such as at the Mountains
Speaker 1: of Madness, written by HP Lovecraft in nineteen thirty one.
Speaker 1: Some were more rumor mill kind of stuff reported as
Speaker 1: if they were true in newspapers right in the following decades.
Speaker 1: But from twenty twelve to twenty sixteen there was a
Speaker 1: new round of rumors spreading, and they were based on
Speaker 1: photographs that apparently showed something, some geographical feature in Antarctica
Speaker 1: with regular triangular sides, the kind of stuff that, to
Speaker 1: your point, met earlier in the show would not occur
Speaker 1: in nature. And so it was the argument about the
Speaker 1: face or pyramid on Mars all over again. People on
Speaker 1: one end were saying, this is true. Someone's covering this up,
Speaker 1: this is stuff they don't want you to know. And
Speaker 1: then there were other people saying, well, if we don't
Speaker 1: get photographs of this thing at multiple angles. How do
Speaker 1: we know this is not just a trick of perspective,
Speaker 1: which is different from immediately calling bs. It's just saying,
Speaker 1: go back there, take more pictures.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's verify. What is it the old adage trust
Speaker 3: but verify?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, right. And it's funny because there were even
Speaker 1: more rumors spreading. I think the favorite is our return
Speaker 1: a returning champion of our show Buzz, Doctor Rendezvous. Aldron
Speaker 1: returned in this story because I think in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: towards the end of twenty sixteen, there was this rumor
Speaker 1: that he posted a picture of this ice pyramid as
Speaker 1: people were calling it and then said we were all
Speaker 1: in danger. It is evil at chev and then he
Speaker 1: rapidly deleted it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the rumor.
Speaker 1: That was the rumor.
Speaker 3: But what if he really did that? How crazy would
Speaker 3: that be If Doctor Rendezvous was like, look at this pyramid,
Speaker 3: they're here too, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I don't know. That would be that would
Speaker 1: be out of character.
Speaker 3: For him, Yeah, I really would. Oh gosh.
Speaker 1: That's because he's known sort of as a you know,
Speaker 1: as someone who's trolled a conspiracy theorists before or what
Speaker 1: he calls conspiracy theorists. But anyways, so that's that's Antarctica
Speaker 1: at this point. Don't get us wrong. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of very stuff that happens on that continent, and it's
Speaker 1: part of the reason I think that you and I
Speaker 1: want to go. Yes, and maybe we can talk Paul
Speaker 1: into going with us.
Speaker 3: But he's had some Iceland experience. I think maybe he
Speaker 3: would be fantastic as like a guide and a oh,
Speaker 3: spiritual advisor. I think, okay, yeah, Paul, can you come
Speaker 3: with us?
Speaker 1: Cool? He says, yes, Great, he's in Let us know. Also,
Speaker 1: if you have been to Antarctica, we'd love to hear
Speaker 1: your adventures. So Alaska, let's talk about this one. This
Speaker 1: is a little more recent, and this is a bit
Speaker 1: more enigmatic. According to a couple of people, there's something
Speaker 1: strange buried in the ground about fifty miles from Mount
Speaker 1: McKinley today. The most well known proponent of this idea
Speaker 1: is a writer and ufologist named Linda Moulton Howe. Here's
Speaker 1: how the story starts. All right, travel back with us
Speaker 1: to Anchorage in nineteen ninety two. This is just for comparison,
Speaker 1: the same year that the Brazilian research team began digging
Speaker 1: into the Seashell pyramids.
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen ninety two. Same year, there was a television
Speaker 1: news broadcast from Channel thirteen out of Anchorage, and they
Speaker 1: had a segment about this discovery by geologists and other
Speaker 1: more time scientists of an underground pyramid that they said
Speaker 1: was many times the size of existing pyramids in Egypt.
Speaker 3: And specifically the Great Pyramid of Giza exactly.
Speaker 1: So here's how here's the rumor, here's how it went out.
Speaker 1: So US scientists were concerned about nuclear tests being conducted
Speaker 1: underground by the government of China, so they set up
Speaker 1: seismic equipment and elast to monitor this possibility of nuclear testing.
Speaker 3: And keep in mind, just while this is all happening,
Speaker 3: it's President George H. W. Bush in the White House.
Speaker 1: Good call, good call. This discovery again was only allegedly reported.
Speaker 1: And a scientist accord, this is a campfire story. If
Speaker 1: you're listening, you, Matt, Paul, and I were all gathered
Speaker 1: around a campfire, so let's use our campfire voices. So
Speaker 1: the next day a scientist visits the station, this Channel
Speaker 1: thirteen out of Anchorage, and he says, could I get
Speaker 1: a copy of that video. No such broadcasts exists, they responded,
Speaker 1: and he was stonewalled. Twenty years later, a retired military
Speaker 1: officer named Douglas A. Mutchler claimed to have seen this
Speaker 1: Channel thirteen report and he gave this information to ufologist
Speaker 1: and investigative journalist Linda Moulton. Howe how confirmed the nuclear test,
Speaker 1: but seems to agree with Muschler that there's more to
Speaker 1: the story. You see, she believes that there is a
Speaker 1: pyramid and that any information about it has been covered
Speaker 1: up by someone or some organization thing something.
Speaker 3: Oh man, that's that's awesome.
Speaker 1: It's awesome. It has even more fuel to the fire
Speaker 1: here because you see, there was also a video that
Speaker 1: came out apparently recently that that showed footage of this pyramid, uh,
Speaker 1: that a team of explorers stumbled upon. Right, But there
Speaker 1: are some problems with the video too.
Speaker 3: Oh, there are certainly problems with the video. My understanding
Speaker 3: is that it has this thing that that's called text
Speaker 3: of voice.
Speaker 1: Oh right, right right, where people want to disguise their
Speaker 1: voices or accents or what have you, or.
Speaker 3: Just to be able to type something anonymously and then
Speaker 3: have the computer vocalize it.
Speaker 1: Can you do a computer voice.
Speaker 3: Me mine would just probably be misconstrued as Stephen hawking.
Speaker 1: Oh I see yeah, I want to stay away from
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But it's the similar thing where it's a program that
Speaker 3: is vocalizing the words there, but the I just want
Speaker 3: to get this really fast because this is the most
Speaker 3: mind bling thing for me with this whole story, this
Speaker 3: campfire story there, because you know it mentions that this person,
Speaker 3: Linda Howe, confirmed the nuclear test that China conducted, right, Well,
Speaker 3: we can also confirm that that occurred, or at least
Speaker 3: there was reporting about it in places like the New
Speaker 3: York Times and the Chicago Tribune in May specifically of
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety two, when China conducted a large test and
Speaker 3: the signal or the vibrations from that test were registered
Speaker 3: throughout the United States, specifically their system of detection devices
Speaker 3: that are all over the planet.
Speaker 1: Right right and have been since shortly after the invention
Speaker 1: of nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that story itself has that it's that grain
Speaker 3: of truth thing where when you're looking into a campfire
Speaker 3: story like this, you begin to see the walls they're illuminating.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, there, we're actually in a space. This
Speaker 3: really does exist wherever this is or whatever this is.
Speaker 3: But then you go looking a little bit further and
Speaker 3: you get to that point where Linda says, you know,
Speaker 3: the actual location of where this pyramid is though, has
Speaker 3: been secreted away, it's been covered up.
Speaker 1: And then it goes back to your original question. When
Speaker 1: we're talking about pyramids in general, a question of motive.
Speaker 1: Why cover this up? Why do the guys say, is
Speaker 1: it perhaps a sacred site for local cultures or is
Speaker 1: it a site that is considered unclean for some reason.
Speaker 1: The problem with both of those claims is that other
Speaker 1: holy places throughout the world have almost always become tourist destinations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you could make money off of those things,
Speaker 3: and that's nice, but here's the thing. Yesun Alaska, where
Speaker 3: it was located, not gonna get tourism out there. Probably
Speaker 3: you got to build a bunch of civilization first.
Speaker 1: Or maybe someone already did. That's the argument, right, that's
Speaker 1: the argument. So it is true, though you're absolutely right
Speaker 1: that there wasn't just one test in nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 1: There was a test on the twenty first of May,
Speaker 1: a test on the twenty fifth of September, and a
Speaker 1: failed test on November two, all in the same year,
Speaker 1: so this this was extensive testing. But the one you
Speaker 1: had mentioned in the New York Times article, it's true
Speaker 1: that was the largest underground test the government of China
Speaker 1: had taken at that time. So it is true. But
Speaker 1: the problem here is that there's very little indication of
Speaker 1: a pyramid in Alaska from anybody other than these sources
Speaker 1: that we've named. It does lead us to something interesting
Speaker 1: that we had never covered before, which was the existence
Speaker 1: of a Bermuda triangle in Alaska, the Alaska and Bermuda Triangle.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of thing that a lot of
Speaker 1: more mainstream television producers love. Yes, you know you can
Speaker 1: see I'm sure you can find a cheesy episode about this.
Speaker 1: But just so that everyone has the concept, maybe we
Speaker 1: can explore this and see if there's more sin to
Speaker 1: it later. There is this belief that much like the
Speaker 1: Devil's Triangle in the Pacific or the Bermuda Triangle in
Speaker 1: the Atlantic, Alaska has its own triangle in which people disappear.
Speaker 1: It's an area sparsely, very sparsely populated wilderness. It's very cold,
Speaker 1: it's a inhospitable location. Wild animals abound right and this
Speaker 1: triangle's thought to stretch from Barrow, Alaska in the north,
Speaker 1: which I think was popularized in Thirty Days of Night,
Speaker 1: to Anchorage and south of the left all the way
Speaker 1: down to June. And it's different because it largely goes
Speaker 1: over land, right, yeah, rather than ocean. Maybe there's a
Speaker 1: bay or two that it cross as yeah.
Speaker 3: And in this case, it's generally just I think one
Speaker 3: of the concepts here is that it's generally forest areas,
Speaker 3: it's mountain areas a lot, there's a lot of it's
Speaker 3: very cold, there's a lot of ice, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of snow, there's a lot of all of these things
Speaker 3: that are somewhat inhospitable for humans right in within this
Speaker 3: triangle area in the center of at least before you
Speaker 3: get out to the edges. And you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of the claims that have to do with the Devil's Triangle,
Speaker 3: the Muted Triangle and all these things they have to
Speaker 3: do with a lot of magnetic anomalies. A lot of
Speaker 3: times they have to do with weather patterns that occur
Speaker 3: within those spaces. And you could at least you can
Speaker 3: imagine something occurring here. We're in this some it's not desolate.
Speaker 3: It's just it's not a place where a lot of
Speaker 3: humans gather and have all of their stuff. Right.
Speaker 1: I think we should do an episode on this in
Speaker 1: the future.
Speaker 3: Well, I think so too, because the disappearances that have
Speaker 3: occurred over this little triangle within Alaska, there are many,
Speaker 3: and they're frightening.
Speaker 1: Since nineteen ninety eight, more than sixteen thousand people have
Speaker 1: vanished in this this area mapped out as the Triangle.
Speaker 1: This contributed to an average of roughly four missing person
Speaker 1: reports for every one thousand people in Alaska. That is
Speaker 1: more than double the national average. Gosh, so not only
Speaker 1: are there relatively few people in this part of the world,
Speaker 1: but a lot of them go missing. Maybe maybe Alaska
Speaker 1: is just a place where people get off the grid,
Speaker 1: you know, or maybe they they end up at the pyramid.
Speaker 3: I've been Oh that's the thing. Okay, okay, look, before
Speaker 3: we wrap up, let's let's talk about the biggest, at
Speaker 3: least most fascinating out there concept for why a pyramid
Speaker 3: in Alaska would be covered up? All right, do you
Speaker 3: want me just tell you what it is?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: I think you know it.
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 3: We've been talking about ancient like human civilization building it
Speaker 3: or something like that.
Speaker 1: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: But the concept that perhaps all of these pyramids across
Speaker 3: the world, the big conspiracy, were all influenced by the
Speaker 3: same extraterrestrial force that shaped humanity, that perhaps seeded intelligence
Speaker 3: on this earth, on this planet, like an intelligent panspermia
Speaker 3: kind of thing. That to me is the most captivating
Speaker 3: version of this of Like, that's why a lot of
Speaker 3: these secrets are still hidden. That's why we don't truly
Speaker 3: understand the pyramids in Egypt. That's why we truly don't
Speaker 3: fully understand why they're everywhere and all of all of
Speaker 3: humanity was so fascinated by that shape and that structure.
Speaker 1: That's kind of a sacred geometry argument too. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: stargate stargate, I mean not to not to diminish that
Speaker 1: that would that would be amazing if it were somehow true.
Speaker 1: The counter argument people make for that, of course, is
Speaker 1: that at the time, given understanding construction and technology, that
Speaker 1: was the easiest thing to build that would last for
Speaker 1: a long time. You know what I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I wish you know what, Matt, I hope
Speaker 1: the truth is out there too. Yeah, let me too,
Speaker 1: Hey tell you what if we do meet extraterrestrials in
Speaker 1: our lifetimes, if I ever meet them, even if you're
Speaker 1: not there, I Am going to try to get them
Speaker 1: to build a pyramid, even if they don't care what
Speaker 1: it is, and they're just like, they think it's our
Speaker 1: our hello ritual. If they spend the rest of their
Speaker 1: time with our species thinking that instead of you know,
Speaker 1: waving or shaking hands or vocalizing, you build someone a
Speaker 1: pyramid as a way of greeting them from scratch. It'll
Speaker 1: be great. Yeah, it'll be worth it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so down with that.
Speaker 1: Let's get t shirts with pyramids on them.
Speaker 3: I want. What I want to see is, let's do
Speaker 3: a pyramid on the ground right when it's kind of
Speaker 3: a nice sea is kind of surrounding. We did it depends,
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what kind of musigrat it could be whatever.
Speaker 3: But then above it is an inverted version that has
Speaker 3: lights on the top of it. In the bottom that's
Speaker 3: like hovering down or coming down. So it's like as
Speaker 3: above so below, and.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the old UFO pictures where the
Speaker 1: UFO would be cast in a tractor beam down on
Speaker 1: the ground. We could also oh you know what, let's
Speaker 1: go with that design.
Speaker 3: That's brilliant.
Speaker 1: I have a caption, tell me what you think, aliens.
Speaker 1: The first pyramid scheme is that no not yet, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it now you're good? Ah well and no
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick And that's our classic episode for this evening.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your thoughts. We try to
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