1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Coming up soon on the show, we're going 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: to have an episode on labor organizer and civil rights 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: activist A. Philip Randolph. One part of his work that 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: gets the most attention is his effort to organize the 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: Brotherhood of Sleeping car Porters. In this upcoming episode, we're 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: going to cover him in a lot more depth than 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Nuance and just that one bit. We covered the Brotherhood 8 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: of Sleeping car Porters in our February twenty six, twenty 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: fourteen episode, and we're bringing that out as Today's Saturday Classic. 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: So enjoy. Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Prie. So, Holly, Yeah, 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: when you took like US history classes that talked about 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: the Civil rights movement, do you feel like a lot 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: of the focus was on the things that African Americans 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: were not allowed to do? So like almost the integrity 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: of the focus. Yeah, So, like being barred from the 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: schools and the restrooms and other whites only places, being 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 1: kept from voting, being denied legal protections that white people 20 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: really took for granted, Like all of that kind of 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: stuff feels like a big part of the context for 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement in history classes in the United States, 23 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: for sure. So there's actually a whole other part of 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: that equation, which is the things that only African Americans 25 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: were allowed to do. There were jobs that used an 26 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: entirely black workforce as a way to subjugate people and 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: maintain a racial status quo. I only became aware that 28 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: this was a thing like as an adult. Yeah, me too. 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: I definitely do not recall ever having that as part 30 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: of a class well, and even having taken in an 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: entire class on social movements a third of which was 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: devoted to the civil rights movement in college. I don't 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: think that's something that we really got into. But today 34 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about one of these jobs, which 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: was the sleeping car porter. In the nineteen twenties, sleeping 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: car porters unionized and they successfully fought for better pay 37 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: and working conditions. Their union, which was the Brotherhood of 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: Sleeping car Porters, became the first African American labor union 39 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: to be recognized by the American Federation of Labor. While 40 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: the union started out campaigning for more money and better 41 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: treatment for its members. It became an important force for 42 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: social change during the American Civil Rights movement. But before 43 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: we talk about the porters and their union specifically, we 44 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: need to just talk a little bit about trains because 45 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: it's important to contextualize where all this was going on. So, 46 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: by the end of the nineteenth century, the railroad was 47 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: basically the easiest and fastest way to travel long distances 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: in the United States, But until an industrialist named George 49 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: Pullman put his stamp on the sleeping car, the trip 50 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: wasn't really comfortable, particularly if you had to travel overnight. 51 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: That's actually still true today. Yes, I've made multiple trips 52 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: by train from Atlanta to Washington, DC that were all 53 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: overnight and it's not comfortable. I had a sleeping car 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: one time, and that was marginally more comfortable, but still 55 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: not the like total luxury experience that it became in 56 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. So the Pullman Company put out its 57 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: first sleeper car in eighteen sixty five. These cars featured 58 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: really beautiful and comfortable furnishings. There were berths that converted 59 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: from seats and folded down from the walls. But what 60 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: really set Pullman cars apart from the other sleeper cars 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: on the market was their staff of porters, the first 62 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: of whom was hired in eighteen sixty s railroad lines 63 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: who wanted to have Pullman cars as part of their 64 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: trains leased them from the Pullman Company, and a staff 65 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: of maids and porters came along as part of the package. 66 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: And the porter's work was really what made the Pullman 67 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: cars a true luxury experience. They had an exceptional reputation 68 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: for quality and service. The porters would make down the 69 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: beds at night and they would make them back up 70 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: again in the morning. They would brush traveler's coats, they 71 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: would polish shoes. They served meals and beverages, and basically 72 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: attended to every need a passenger might have throughout their journey, 73 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: looking after and cleaning up after sick passengers. They took 74 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: care of people in every possible way, and porters were 75 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: even responsible for the safety and security of passengers, including children. 76 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: And for almost one hundred years, they were also exclusively 77 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: African American. Many of the earliest Pullman porters were recently 78 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: freed slaves, and as the years wore on, the Pullman 79 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: Company made up concerted effort of hiring most of its 80 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: porters out of the Deep South. Once hired, the workers 81 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: mostly worked out of northern railroad hub cities, especially Chicago, 82 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: and George Pullman got a great deal of praise at 83 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: the time for employing so many black workers, but his 84 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: motives were not philanthropic, and he did not try to 85 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: disguise that fact. He chose African American labor for his 86 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: sleeping cars because he knew he would get a workforce 87 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: that was grateful to have a job and would be 88 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: willing to accept low pay and work grueling hours. He 89 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: expected newly freed slaves to be used to being subservient 90 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: to white people, and the white passengers were also accustomed 91 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: to having African Americans around as a servant class. So 92 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: African Americans, for context, could ride these trains, but they 93 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: had to ride in segregated cars, and they certainly were 94 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: not allowed to ride in sleeper cars. Yes, so it 95 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: was basically an exclusively black workforce waiting on a almost 96 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: exclusively white customer base. By the nineteen twenties, more than 97 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: twenty thousand African American men were employed as Pullman porters 98 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: and other train personnel. The Pullman Company became the largest 99 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: employer of African American men and the United States. There 100 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: were also African American maids who worked on the trains. 101 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: There was about one made for every fifty porters in 102 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen twenties, and the job of a pullman 103 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: porter was actually a highly coveted one, and porters were 104 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: very well respected within their home communities. The job did 105 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: not require a lot of heavy manual labor, which was 106 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: rare among jobs for African American men, and porters got 107 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: to travel all over and so they became sources of 108 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: information about jobs and news when they would travel back home, 109 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: and they also, as a consequence, wound up being the 110 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: company's best recruiters because they would return home with stories 111 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: of adventure and travel, and they would have pockets full 112 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: of tips. So it looked like a very glamorous, uh 113 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: you know, really pretty cushy job to a lot of people, yes, 114 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: but in reality, porters worked extremely long hours for not 115 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: much money. A pullman porter in the twenties had to 116 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: work four hundred hours or travel eleven thousand miles in 117 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: a month, whichever came first, to earn his full pay. 118 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: So if you're doing math in your head right now, 119 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: that is thirteen to fourteen hours a day every day 120 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: with zero days off during the month, or about two 121 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: round trips all the way across the country from New 122 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,559 Speaker 1: York to San Francisco. The base salary for this work 123 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: was about eight hundred and seventeen dollars a year in 124 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties. I looked at a bunch of different 125 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: ways to calculate how much this means today, and they 126 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: are widely Yeah, it's hard to do the transliteration on 127 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: yeah time. Yeah. So if you really really want a number, 128 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: we can call it about twenty two thousand dollars for 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: thirty or thirty one, thirteen or fourteen hour days minimum. 130 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: And I was whining earlier about how angry I get 131 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: just having to get up in the morning. Most porters 132 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: actually made more in tips than they did in salary, 133 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: and added together this These two incomes often made up 134 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: for more money than many other jobs open to African Americans, 135 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: but it was much much less than white people could 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: make in other pulling company jobs. For example, porters made 137 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: much less than the conductors, who were all white, yet 138 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: they often had to do the work of the conductor. 139 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: Porters also had to spend a lot of their pay 140 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: on things that they needed for work, including food, uniforms, 141 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: and shoe polish. They also had to pay for their 142 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: own lodging during layovers, and if passengers walked off with 143 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: colmbs or towels or other small items, as often happens 144 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: in any kind of situation like that, it was stocked 145 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: from the porter's pay. And then there they were parts 146 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: of the job that were really quite frankly degrading. For example, 147 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: the porter's blankets were never allowed to be mixed with 148 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: the passengers blankets in the wash, and to achieve this, 149 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: they were color coded, so the porter's blankets were blue 150 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: and the passengers blankets were a sort of salmon color. 151 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: When the passenger blankets started to wear out and become 152 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: unfit for use, they would be dyed blue, and then 153 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: those worn out blankets would be given to the porters. 154 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: The porters didn't get to use these blankets much though 155 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: most of them got to sleep a maximum of three 156 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: hours a night, and that really was a maximum they were. 157 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: There'd be nights when they didn't sleep at all. We're 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: using this thirteen to fourteen hour a day numbers an average. 159 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: In reality, there were days off and they would be 160 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: working more like twenty one hours in a day for 161 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: most of their working time, so they did not get 162 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: a lot of sleep. They also had no berths assigned 163 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: to them. Porters usually had to sleep on couches in 164 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: the smoking car behind a screen, and they were not 165 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: allowed to clear the car so that they could sleep. 166 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: Porters were also required to answer to the name of George. 167 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: This was a holdover for when slaves were referred to 168 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: by their master's names, and just as often they were 169 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: called not by a name at all, but by a 170 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: racial slur that we are not interested in repeating here. 171 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: You could probably guess what it is, and it was 172 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: pretty much a given that calling a porter George meant 173 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: the same thing as using that slur. Because of segregation, 174 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: it was also entirely possible for porters to have no 175 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: safe place to sleep and nowhere to get food during layovers, 176 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: and the company really didn't do anything to compensate for that. 177 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: Porters who tried to address any of these issues at 178 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: the company faced retaliation in the form of being branded 179 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: troublemakers or even just fired. So the porters, you know, 180 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: recognizing that there were conditions about their work that they 181 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: would like to change, tried to unionize three times between 182 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: nineteen oh nine and nineteen thirteen. One of these was successful, 183 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: but the company realized that had a problem, so it 184 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: started its own union, the Pullman Porter's Benefit Association, in 185 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen. Its first chairman, Arthur A. Wells, was actually 186 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: George Pullman's personal assistant and his attendant in his private car. 187 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: The company also established the Employee Representation Plan in nineteen twenty, 188 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: which was purportedly to focus on getting better pay. It 189 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: docked the money to fund this plan out of the 190 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: porter's salaries, so it had basically the company recognized its 191 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: labor issue quote and then tried to address it by 192 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: making this kind of company run union. Yeah, and this 193 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: wasn't the only time that the Pullman Company had really 194 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: taken the bull by the horns to try to solve 195 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: labor problems. In eighteen eighty, the Pullman Company built the 196 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: town of Pullman, which was south of Chicago, as worker housing, 197 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: and from the outside it really looked like a wholesome 198 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: place to live, but the company controlled everything about it, 199 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: down to what books the library could have. It was 200 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: a dry town and the only place that served alcohol 201 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: was a hotel, but you could only get alcohol there 202 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: if you were a guest and not a resident of 203 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: the town. So when a depression started in eighteen ninety 204 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: four and residents couldn't afford to live on what was 205 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: left after the company payroll deducted their rent, it contributed 206 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: to a strike that was so bad the federal government 207 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: had to intervene. George Pullman's relationship with his employees was 208 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: contentious enough that when he died in eighteen ninety seven, 209 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: he left instructions that he'd be entombed in steel and 210 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: concrete so that disgruntled employees could not desecrate his body. Yeah, 211 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: that's that's an adversarial relationship. Quite adversary, but extremely mildly well. 212 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: And the town of Pullman is a fascinating story on 213 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: its own. It had kind of an extremely weird Stepford 214 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: quality about it. The company would come and search people's 215 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: homes just because because it was really a surveillance state 216 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: for the people who were living there. So back to 217 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: the porters. Finally, in nineteen twenty five, a New York 218 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: porter named Ashley L. Totten got four other porters together 219 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: in secret, and together they approached a man named a 220 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: Philip Randolph to help them start a union and to 221 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: lead it once it was off the ground. A. Philip 222 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: Randolph had never worked for the Pullman Company, he'd never 223 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: even ridden in one of its cars, but he did 224 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: have a long history and a notorious reputation for labor activism. 225 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: He was also a pacifist, he was an atheist, and 226 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: he was a socialist. So in short, that meant that 227 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: he basically had enemies everywhere. But he was an excellent 228 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: advocate and he was really devoted to the cause of 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: labor rights at this point. He had a long history 230 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: of political activity, including a very long effort to encourage 231 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: African Americans to unionize and to advocate for themselves in 232 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: labor issues. So after some initial reluctance, he decided to 233 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: help start a union. And before we talk about the union, 234 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: would you like to take a moment and talk about 235 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor that sounds spectacular. Now on 236 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: to the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. It had its 237 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: first meeting on August twenty fifth, nineteen twenty five, and 238 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: it published a list of demands in The Messenger, which 239 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: was a magazine that A. Philip Randolph had co founded 240 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen. Among These demands were a significant pay raise, 241 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: abolishing the practice of tipping, providing adequate rest breaks, and 242 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: increasing the pensions. And the porters also demanded that a 243 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: name card be placed in each car so that passengers 244 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: could call them their actual names instead of George. And 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: it may seem kind of odd that they would want 246 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: to abolish tipping since that was a source of income, 247 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: but because porter's base pay was so low, they had 248 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: to be comple completely subservient and ingratiating to white writers 249 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: at all times in the hope of getting a better 250 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: tips that they were making a living wage, so abolishing 251 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: tips could lessen, but not entirely remove, one of the 252 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: most degrading aspects of their job. The Pullman Company met 253 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: zero of these demands, and it also did not recognize 254 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: the union as a legitimate organization that it not that 255 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: would negotiate with. It started firing people who were working 256 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: with the union and infiltrating union meetings with spies. And 257 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: because of all the espionage that was going on on 258 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: the company's part, the brotherhood became extremely secretive. There were 259 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: secret passwords, there were secret handshakes. The porter's wives were 260 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: also instrumental in maintaining secrecy. They formed an ancillary network 261 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: to distribute information and even attend on their husband's behalf 262 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: if spies were said to be present. The porter's wives 263 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: eventually formed what was called the Ladies Auxiliary, which campaigned, 264 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: they held fundraisers. They helped keep the union members morale 265 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: up during the really long effort to get official recognition, 266 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: and without the Ladies Auxiliary, the Brotherhood probably would have failed. 267 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: Espionage was also only one way that the company tried 268 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: to out maneuver the union. The Pullman Company started by 269 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: negotiating pay raises with the in house unions try to 270 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: make it look good. These were much much smaller raises 271 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: than what the union or you know, the Brotherhood was 272 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: came paigning for. It also started strategically hiring people it 273 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: thought would be more compliant, and it also did its 274 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: share of media spin about how well paid and well 275 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: treated its employees were, including publishing articles to that effect 276 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: in the Black Papers. It also cooked its numbers with 277 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: its own polls that it conducted to make it look 278 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: like eighty five percent of the porters were in favor 279 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: of the in house union and not the Brotherhood of 280 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: Sleeping Car Porters. And the Brotherhood's effort to be recognized 281 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: went on for twelve extremely difficult years. There was name 282 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: calling on both sides. The company branded unions of porters 283 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: as communists and the union branding porters who wouldn't join 284 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: as traders to their race. The company intimidated people who 285 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: talked about joining, and the union intimidated people who didn't join. Yeah, 286 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: it was kind of an ugly fight on both sides 287 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. And then in the late 288 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, the union nearly collapsed following a call for 289 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: a strike that never got off the ground. The Brotherhood's 290 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: membership started to drop because people were starting to feel 291 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: really frustrated about the fact that nothing was actually changing. 292 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: Membership was had between nineteen twenty eight and nineteen twenty nine, 293 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: and then again by nineteen thirty one. Then, thanks to 294 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: the Great Depression, the threat of job loss made people 295 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: even more reluctant to be involved in the union, so 296 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: by nineteen thirty three it only had six hundred and 297 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: fifty eight members. But in nineteen thirty four, President Franklin 298 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: Delano Roosevelt signed the National Labor Relations Act, which encouraged 299 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: collective bargaining and gave the union a legal footing that 300 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: it had not had before, and membership started to grow again. 301 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty five, the Pullman Company finally sat down 302 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: with Randolph and other members of the union to negotiate 303 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: for the first time. Two years later, the Pullman Company 304 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: finally recognized the Brotherhood of Sleeping car Porters. The Brotherhood 305 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: signed its first labor agreement with the company on August 306 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: twenty fifth of that year. This agreement raised the minimum 307 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: salary from seventy seven dollars and fifty cents to eighty 308 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: nine dollars and fifty cents a month. That might not 309 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: sound like the most monumental pay increase, but it was 310 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: for two hundred and forty hours of work, not four hundred. 311 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: The agreement also guaranteed sleeping time, it established a procedure 312 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: for handling grievances, and gave some other benefits as well. 313 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: Over the years, the Brotherhood of Sleeping car Porters continued 314 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: to negotiate with the Pullman Company. The monthly pay, when 315 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: averaged out to an hourly rate, was eventually better than 316 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: that of engineers, conductors, and other railroad positions that were 317 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: at that point held by white people. Working conditions improved 318 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: as well. Gradually, the Brotherhood of Sleeping car Porters also 319 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: turned its attention to helping other labor organizations integrate the 320 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: jobs that had previously been acceptable only for white people. 321 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: As a side note, it was apparently an all white 322 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: organization of guys named George called the Society for the 323 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: Prevention of Calling Sleeping car Porters George that convinced the 324 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: Pullman Company to put name cards for the porters in 325 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: the cars. Yeah. These were basically white people named George 326 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: who objected to the associations with their name that were happening. Yeah. Yeah, 327 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: It's kind of like if the name Tracy had become 328 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: some sort of racial slur and you and all the 329 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: other Tracy said that's not cool. I think my motivation 330 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: would be a little different than than the organization's motivation was. Yeah, 331 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: this was probably one that they did not want to 332 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: be associated right with black people. But they did eventuallyually 333 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: move away from the practice of just calling everyone George. 334 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: So the Pullman Company made a practice of buying up 335 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: a lot of its competitors, and in nineteen forty the 336 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: United States Department of Justice filed an anti trust complaint 337 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: against the company. In the end, the company was ordered 338 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: to divest itself of either its business of operating sleeper 339 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: cars or its business of building sleeper cars. If this 340 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: sort of rings a bell in your mind, it was 341 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: cited as a precedent in the Microsoft anti trust case. 342 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: This case continued to shake out through the nineteen forties, 343 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: and in nineteen forty seven, Pullman formally handed over ownership 344 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: of the sleeping car business to a consortium of fifty 345 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: seven railroads. The Brotherhood continued to negotiate with the railroads, 346 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: and by this point it was no longer an exclusively 347 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: African American organization. It also represented white barbers, maids from 348 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: the Philippines and others working in service positions on the railroads. 349 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: At about this same time, the Brotherhood and its leadership 350 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: and its members also started to become a force for 351 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: equal rights outside of their working life. So in the 352 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: nineteen forties, many African Americans moved to urban areas where 353 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: defense work was in full swing because there was a 354 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: huge demand for workers as part of the war effort. 355 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: The problem was once they got there, African Americans often 356 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: faced harassment and discrimination, and there was a federal hiring 357 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: system that favored white people. Randolph and other black leaders 358 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: actually met with Eleanor Roosevelt and members of the cabinet 359 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: promising a protest march on Washington. On June twenty fifth 360 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty one, FDR issued Executive Order eight eight 361 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: zero two, which said, in part quote, I do hereby 362 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: reaffirm the policy of the United States that there shall 363 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense 364 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: industries or government because of race, creed, color, or national origin. 365 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: After World War Two, Randolph was also part of the 366 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: effort to integrate the American army, and thanks in part 367 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: to his campig but also to the realities of needing 368 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: the black vote to win reelection, President Harry S. Truman 369 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: banned segregation of the armed forces through Executive Order nine 370 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: nine eight one on July twenty sixth, nineteen forty eight. 371 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: Randolph was also a director of the March on Washington 372 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: for Jobs and Freedom, at which doctor Martin Luther King 373 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: Junior gave his famous I Have a Dream speech. Ed Nixon, 374 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: whose name you may remember from our recent episode on 375 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: Rosa Parks, worked on the Montgomery bus boycott. He was 376 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: also a sleeping car porter, and in fact he took 377 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: himself out of the running to be president of the 378 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: Montgomery Improvement Association, which was the position that was held 379 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: by doctor Martin Luther King because of his work schedule. 380 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: Like Ed Nixon, other Pulman porters became civil rights activists 381 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: in their own hometowns. The Brotherhood and its members had 382 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: gone up against white power structure and eventually won. Because 383 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: of the nature of their jobs, the porters were also 384 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: acutely aware of the effects of racism and discriminate. The 385 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: porters used all this experience to become important sources of 386 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: information and organization throughout the civil rights movement. They also 387 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: smuggled and distributed pamphlets and literature bypassing the mail system. Yeah, 388 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: so if you had places where corrupt mail officials were 389 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: just trashing things instead of delivering them, they had a 390 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: way to work around that by using this network of 391 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: sleeping car porters. The railroad really dropped off as a 392 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: means of travel in the nineteen sixties thanks to the 393 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: rise of air travel and the interstate highway system. The 394 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: number of pullman porters working really just dropped precipitously. There 395 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: were only about three thousand of them by nineteen sixty two, 396 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: and after the Civil rights movement, and in spite of 397 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: the involvement and leadership on the part of so many members, 398 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people really stopped seeing the Pullman porters 399 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: as the labor and civil rights champions that they had 400 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: been for so many years, and instead they remembered the 401 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: part where African American porters kowtowed white passengers for tips. Yeah. 402 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the saddest things about this 403 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: whole story. It really is. You have a group of 404 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: people who worked so hard for so long to take 405 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: ownership of their jobs and to gain a measure of 406 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: dignity in a job that was inherently demeaning in a 407 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: lot of ways. But today the takeaway to a lot 408 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: of people is this image that's offensive, really and completely mischaracterized. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 409 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: The Brotherhood of Sleeping car porters merged with the Brotherhood 410 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: of Railway airline steamship clerks, freight handlers, express and station 411 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: employees in nineteen seventy eight. That is a very long 412 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: name for basically what was a similar organization of service 413 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: positions in travel. And this was just because at that 414 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: point there weren't really sleeping cars in that way anymore. 415 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: And as for a Philip Randolph, he was awarded the 416 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: Presidential Medal of Freedom in nineteen sixty four. He died 417 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: on May sixteenth of nineteen seventy nine. Is a really 418 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: great book called Rising from the Rails Pullman Porters and 419 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: the Making of the Black Middle Class, which is by 420 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: Larry Tye and uh. One of the awesome things about it, 421 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: in addition to the fact that it gives a chronology 422 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: of the whole like the job of sleeping car porter 423 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: and the the work of the union and the progress 424 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: that was made over the years, is that the author 425 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: tracked down as many living pullman porters as he could 426 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: find or their families like immediate family members and children, 427 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: to talk to them about what the job was like, 428 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: and about what their lives were like, and about what 429 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: the time was like. And so there are just so 430 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: many first person accounts in this book. If you are 431 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: interested in it at all, you you should. You should 432 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: check it out and take a look at it. It 433 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: is a very interesting story with many things that we 434 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: have not talked about here. There's also a book called 435 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: Marching Together, Women of the Brotherhood of Sleeping car Porters, 436 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: which is something that we only touched on a little 437 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: bit today. The Sleeping Car Porters at various points also 438 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: had and Maids in its name because there were also 439 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: maids working on the cars, but the porters definitely get 440 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: more attention in terms of historical accounts and that kind 441 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: of thing. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. 442 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: Since this episode is out of the archive, if you 443 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: heard an email address or a Facebook RL or something 444 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: similar over the course of the show, that could be 445 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: obsolete now. Our current email address is History Podcast at 446 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com. Our old house stuffworks email address no 447 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: longer works, and you can find us all over social 448 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 1: media at missed in History and you can subscribe to 449 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, 450 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff You Missed 451 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more 452 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or 453 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.