WEBVTT - Which Came First: Depression or Eating Disorder? 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.520 I won't let my body out, be out everything that 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.920 I'm made do. Won't spend my life trying to change. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.399 I'm learning a love who I am, I get I'm strong, 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.680 I feel free, I know who everybody me. It's beautiful 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:24.400 and then will always out with if you feel it 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.360 with you is in there. She's some love to the 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.520 boy there. Let's say good day and did you and 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:37.240 die out? Hey? Amy and Lisa here, welcome back to 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.839 another episode aboutweigh Our guest today is Lauren Larkin, and 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.519 we're excited to have Lauren on because she's going to 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:47.280 share her personal recovery story and what that looked like 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.199 for her. But also we're in for a treat because 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:55.040 Lauren is a mental health counselor, so yes, eating disorder survivor, 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.440 but also a mental health counselor, so win win here 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.640 and you know, I have a shan out of the 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.600 gate for you, Lauren, and we're just going to get 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.680 right in because I did some therapy late last year 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.880 with a therapist was superintense, and I've done therapy for 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.000 years since I was a teenager regarding my eating disorder, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.600 but at thirty nine years old, was the first time 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.319 a therapist has said to me, oh, well, yeah, that 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.399 was your underlying depression, And I said, but what what? 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.000 I'm sorry, what because if you were to ever say 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.120 to me that I had any type of depression or 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.000 asked me, I guess not say. If you were to 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.280 ever asked me if I had any experience with depression, 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.000 my answer would be no. But then how hearing him 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.840 phrase it that way, it was a moment where I 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.800 stepped back and thought, oh my goodness. When I really 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.280 dig into it, I saw what he was saying, and 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.480 it was definitely an AHA moment for me. So, you, 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:54.360 being a mental health counselor and maybe even tying it 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.720 in with some of your journey, when you hear me 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.320 say that, what comes to mind for you? So it 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.560 comes to mind for me is that that was the 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.279 exact lens that I was planning on telling my story 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.320 through because of my clinical experience as mental health counselor, 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.320 and because I've heard the other guests on your podcast 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.560 and I've related to so many of the counting and 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.320 the feeling like you're never going to have the perfect 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.840 body kind of image. But what came up for me 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.040 when I was reflecting on my story most recently was 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:27.160 the idea that there was this internal turmoil that I 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.600 was struggling with since I was in high school, right 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.600 and I was constantly trying to express this turmoil in 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.239 different ways. And I think the first time I tried 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.920 eating disorder behaviors was actually depression and anxiety trying to 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.040 come out. And it was only later when I started 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:44.960 getting really good at those behaviors and I said good, 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.000 but I don't mean good any bad. Was when it 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.840 started to feed one another, almost like a triangle. So anxiety, 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.880 eating disorder and depression were going back and forth with 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.560 one another, and one was always the fueler of the other. 0:02:57.760 --> 0:02:59.840 At some point I was diagnosed with O c D 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.960 because my counting with calories and things like that, but 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.640 it wasn't O c D. I was depressed and anxious, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.959 and my eating disorder was the only way I knew 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.200 how to express my pain, not for anyone else to 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:13.000 see it, but so that I could feel it because 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.760 I didn't know how to work through what was going 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:17.919 on inside of me. And when you said before, I 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.919 would have never told like anyone I was depressed because 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.920 of a happy life, right like I'm a happy person. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.240 I have so much of my life. I never want 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.120 to come across as ungrateful. But at the same time, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.000 depression and anxiety they don't discriminate against people who are 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.480 outwardly happy. So that was a huge part of my story. Yeah. Well, 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.680 and I'll explain to why I would answer out of 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.760 the gate because in my mind I had such a 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.840 narrow view of depression and that I'm like, well, wait, 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:44.600 I wake up, I get out of bed every day, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.880 I go do my job. I have friendships, and I 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.800 have a family, and I'm a good mom. And that's 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.600 how I was defining not being depressed, right, But there 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.600 it's almost like you, I don't know, for lack of 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.000 a better description, I'm just thinking like a functioning alcohol 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.280 like like they wake up, they do their job, they 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.480 go do their thing, but they got to have their whatever, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:10.279 you know. I think sometimes we're just functioning in our depression, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.880 are underlying we don't know that it's even really there. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:15.960 So I think it's important that we talk about this 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.080 today because for me, it was a revelation that I 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.640 feel like I should have known about years ago, but 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.320 I don't know. Just having that perspective was super helpful 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.560 for me and I think there's a lot of stigma 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.080 when it comes to things like depression, anxiety, and even 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.360 eating disorders, which is, you can only be depressed if 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.800 you lost your job, or you're grieving, or you can't 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.640 put food on the table, these major things. Right, Like, Lauren, 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.760 I relate to you because for me, you know, being depressed, 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.680 there was this well, I can't be depressed. I have 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:49.960 so much to be grateful for it. Even though I 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.960 am grateful, I'm still depressed, so I shouldn't be. And 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:56.520 just to kind of widen that out to eating disorders, 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:58.760 you know a lot of bigger bodies think that they 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.320 can't have eating disorder is because they don't fit the 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.240 idea of you know, being real thin or even remotely thin, 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.480 thin bodied at all. So so much of this discussion 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:14.160 needs to just be anybody can go through anything despite 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.080 what you have or you look like, and that's the 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.479 only way that you'll ever also get the help that 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.240 you need. And Lauren, so when you started to do 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.160 the work and give in your background, you know that 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.440 you have the tools. What did you realize was the 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:33.599 root of the depression anxiety, eating disorder triangle? Well, so 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.840 it's really interesting because I'm a career changer, So this 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.080 is my path that I chose after recovery. And I 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.320 say recovery, but I don't know. We're all still struggling 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.680 with everything all the time anyway, So I don't like 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.680 to think of myself as like on the other side. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.080 But when I think about the route, I think it's 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.960 a baseline. Everybody has a baseline. I think mine's just 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:55.920 a little bit lower than other people's when it comes 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.280 to depression. And when I started doing this work, it 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.080 was there was a lot of self hatred underneath it. 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.120 First I had to learn how to eat, how to 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.720 nourish my body in order to do the work that 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.040 was the depression and anxiety work afterwards. And it has 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.160 happened as like a holistic kind of process, Like I 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.200 ended up leaving New York going to an outpatient treatment 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.640 or an inpatient treatment, then an outpatient treatment, really focusing 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.880 on the food stuff first because for me, the depression 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:28.520 got so bad and I thought it was because of 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.600 the food, Like I had struggled with eating disordered behaviors 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.720 on and off, on and off, and I was trying 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.920 to fix it myself, and as we know, trying to 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.599 fix it yourself if you have no education behind it, 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.000 like Lisa does. Right, you just feel like you're out 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.200 of control because after starving yourself for so many years 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.080 and going back and forth with the binge purge cycle 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.360 and they interacts the cycle, right, your body doesn't trust 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.480 you to feed it anymore. So for me, I didn't 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.640 get help when I was at my finnest. Actually, I 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.680 thought I was doing great at my finnest. I was 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.600 proud of myself and my thinness. I thought I had 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.120 it together. It was when I realized, like, Okay, this 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.480 isn't sustainable. The scales really low and I don't think 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.960 I'm gonna get any lower. And I'm really sad and 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.200 I'm leaving Equinox feeling horrible and there's nothing. I don't 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.240 know what I like, I don't know who I am. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.440 I feel like I need to fix this. That's when 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.400 I started trying to eat. And then I hated the 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.840 reaction that I would have because I would eat too much. 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:25.920 And then I gained a bunch of weight, and then 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.600 I was really depressed, and I was anxious about the 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.360 food and the weight and depressed about the food and 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.640 the weight, and it really like ended up being the 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.720 psycle where I had to do food first, self love second, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.240 and just continue to work with the tools that I 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.080 had learned and learned new tools and go back to 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:43.920 school to be a therapist to help other people. And 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.960 just as a sidebar, I think that even professionals need professionals. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:49.880 So you know, you said, even though Lisa, you have 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.560 the tools when you are dealing with something like an 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.440 eating disorder, it's your professional tools, whether you're a therapist 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.480 or a site or a registered dietitian go out the window. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.680 So just as anybody listening here, all people need help. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:05.520 Do you mind if I asked what career you shifted from. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:08.720 Obviously probably what you went through motivated you to do this, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.200 but not a lot of people maybe go through something 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:12.880 and there they have this moment of like, oh wow, 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.840 this is what I'm passionate about. I want to do 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:16.480 this for the rest of my life. Yeah, it was 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.240 really interesting. I think part of my story was like 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.000 never feeling good enough. Obviously we've probably all felt like that, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.560 But for me, I always wanted to be in theater 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.160 and like be a singer, and I went to school 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.600 in Nashville and I didn't end up doing that. But 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.040 I was like, well, I want to be like performance adjacent. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.080 So I went to school for PR and like wanted 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.920 to do music PR like worked at Warners and internship 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.520 there and all these things. And then I was like, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.040 I want to go to New York. I want to 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.439 be a New York woman. Everything was like this idealized 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.400 version of me. I wanted to go to Nashville because 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.120 I wanted to be like a Southern Bell. I wanted 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.319 to go to New York because I wanted to expand 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.480 and like be like this businesswoman and be super successful 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.199 and all these things. So I was trying to make 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.560 it in a career in like marketing, in communications, and 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.400 I just felt like I was never ever going to 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.960 be what I thought I should be in the world. 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.280 It was never going to be Carrie Bradshaw. Just like 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:15.839 when I got to Nashville, I was never going to 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:18.640 be the perfect Southern Bell because I'm from the North 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.360 and I swear and I scared all the boys down 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.120 there and it was not a good fit for me. Right. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.080 I still love Nashville and I love the South, but 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.040 I just was trying to fit myself into molds that 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.520 weren't working. And in New York. I mean it was 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.800 like not fitting into a mold, but to a detriment 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.040 for me. It really got to a point where I 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.559 didn't enjoy what I was doing day to day. I 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.439 remember crying on my first vacation, like on the way 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.960 to the airport, because I was taking this vacation and 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.400 I felt guilty about it, because if I was going 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.400 to be successful, I shouldn't take a vacation. I you know, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:52.920 what was I going to eat when I got there? 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.520 That also there? Right? Am I going to be able 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.000 to enjoy this? I'm so miserable. I was just in 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.240 this place where I couldn't be myself. I was constantly 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.480 trying to mold myself into something else, and it took 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.160 a really psychological toll. Like when I mentioned before, I 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.720 didn't know what I liked. I had no idea. I 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.400 remember trying to write it down one day, being like, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.559 what do you like? Who are you? And I had 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.840 just lost all semblance of Lauren, like the person sitting 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.839 here with you. My mom even said when she would 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.080 see me um during those times, she like didn't know 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.560 who I was anymore. Not that I was completely different, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.960 but she just felt like there was something hollow there. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.960 I don't know when I decided exactly to go back, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.679 but I came back to the city and I started 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.280 naming because that's something I had done in college and 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.240 it was something that I knew I could do to 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.680 sustain myself after my treatment and focus on wellness. And 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.040 when I was manning, I thought about, how can I use, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.800 you know, my story, how can I maybe I start 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.719 writing more. I like dabbled in that for a little bit. 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.200 Maybe I do this, I do that. And I kept 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.040 going back to this moment when I was in a 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.199 day program in Connecticut and a friend of mine, well 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.160 she wasn't a friend at the time, but a new 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:04.240 girl joined the program and she walked in and she 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.120 was like, you're one of the therapists, right, And she 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.080 didn't realize that I was like her, I was there 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.720 for treatment. I was there for you know, the program. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.080 We were going to go and we're gonna have to 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.679 eat together, and we're gonna have to do all these 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.880 things together. And I said no. But for some reason, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.760 that moment wouldn't get out of my head. I was like, 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.720 what if I had been a therapist, What if I 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.760 could be a therapist, and I was like, maybe I 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:30.240 could actually do that, and I applied and I started 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.440 doing it, and it's been super rewarding work. I haven't 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.640 looked back a day where I thought, oh, this wasn't 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:38.720 for me, this was the wrong decision. And when I 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.319 finished days with clients. It's exhausting, and sometimes it's hard 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.720 and you have to go take care of yourself and 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.800 and set that boundary. But I don't regret it ever. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.240 I read a really beautiful blog post that you wrote 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.120 about how recovery itself kind of the before stage of 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:59.440 what you're talking about now is really isolating, and how 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.920 you know this firsthand but kind of helped to heal 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.960 that as second hand as a therapist, but just for 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:10.240 the first hand component when you were looking for recovery, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.000 I know that you look to blogs and people who 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.280 have gone through it, and for whatever reason, it felt 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.640 like everybody else kind of figured it out with a 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.600 snap of their fingers, but for you, it wasn't like that. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.000 Can you tell us about that experience of kind of 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:27.360 looking for someone else to understand. Yeah, I think I've 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.280 been thinking about that a ton in the last few weeks, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.840 thinking about your podcast because I'm like, if this existed 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:39.720 when I was absolutely desperate, I would have felt so 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.240 much less alone. What happened for me was I went 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.080 to a treatment program, literally in patient. I don't know 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.959 if your listeners know what impatient is, but four weeks 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.600 at a location where you have no phone, where you 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.320 almost like feel like a prisoner. That also was very isolating, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.200 but it ended up helping me. But I relinquished all control. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.760 And then I got there and I saw women of 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.680 all different sizes, women of all different ages, and in 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.080 group therapy, they started saying things that were my deepest, deepest, 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:09.280 darkest secrets I never thought I could ever admit to anyone. 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.560 And that's kind of what you have people do on 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.040 this podcast, right, like it just makes you feel like 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.360 you're not alone. And I remember I had this distinct 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.680 image of the isolation that you're talking about, laying in 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.880 my bed at my old apartment midnight, scrolling through diet pages, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.640 scrolling through fitness people, macro people all were saying, you know, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.319 I used to have a little bit of a problem, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.880 but you shouldn't and I don't anymore. And I would like, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.000 I was like, where's the how, where's the step where what. 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.720 That's why I'm very vocal about going to treatment and 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.880 like absolutely like surrendering to the process, because for me 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.600 that was absolutely necessary. Like I had tried to see 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.079 a therapist, I tried to see a nutritionist, similarly like 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.880 Amy and you said to the alcohol comparison, like it 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.520 was like going to rehab. You know, it was like 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.920 taking yourself out of that environment where all your triggers 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.199 were in order to rebuild. And that was necess arry 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.320 for me. I'm not saying it's necessary for everyone. I 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.800 think it's totally doable if you have a great team, 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.319 and you know, if it's more disordered eating rather than 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.640 eating disorder, or if you don't have the depression and 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.680 anxiety component to it, and it's really just like food based. 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.400 But for me, the how wasn't there. It was like 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.400 you guys all got to point B, and I don't 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.200 know what's in between. Where's the bridge from point A? 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:23.800 I'm so type A. I'm like, where's the checklist? I 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.080 can just tick off all the boxes and be cured 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.120 and be fixed and be all of those things. And 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.000 that's also why I said before, you know, it's been 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.200 a holistic kind of mind, body, spirit process for me, 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.680 and it wasn't like I just did both the programs 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.640 that I did and left and it was a perfect 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.920 healing process. It took a lot longer after that to 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.080 really like love myself and get back to a place 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.440 where I'm the person sitting in front of you. Yeah. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.720 I think it's important to definitely remind people, even for 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.800 Lisa and myself hosting this, that it's not an overnight 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.560 snap of the finger thing. And even when Lisa and 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.920 I darted Outweigh last March, I was fresh out of 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.920 a disordered behavior. I had dropped the eating disorder for 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.360 so long, but I didn't realize all these little things 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.160 that I was doing. We're also me just kind of 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.600 holding on tight because it's like I didn't want to 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:20.400 fully let go just yet. But thankfully Lisa was able 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.120 to bring some stuff to my attention through fork the 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:27.440 noise of like, oh shoot, yeah, that's still some noise 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.920 that I'm dealing with. But I knew for me hosting 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:32.440 out way with Lisa, I was like, I gotta get 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.320 rid of this because I can't. I can't come speak 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:39.000 to people. But had I had I not surrounded myself 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.280 with people that are much wiser and ahead of me 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.280 in this process. I don't know that I would have 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.840 noticed that it was still a disordered behavior. And so 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.680 I mentioned that just because sometimes people listening don't know 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.360 that what they have going on makes them sick enough 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:00.280 or disordered enough, or is this really that bad? So 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.880 maybe I don't need help, or it'd be weird if 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:04.520 I went to get help for this. I don't know. 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.840 I'm just throwing out like different thoughts that might pop 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.880 into people's head. I mean, talk about your experience and 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.760 what you would say to someone that might have those thoughts, 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.240 which I think ultimately we could conclude that they are 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.600 lies in their heads. Right now, I mean, I absolutely 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.720 thought that I had all these terrifying fears that I 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:23.600 was going to go to treatment and I was going 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.880 to be the biggest person there. I wasn't going to 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.800 deserve to be there. I would be taking the spot 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.400 of someone else who needed it more. That's absolutely not true, one, 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.880 And it takes a long time to unlearn those thoughts. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.800 And I'll give you an example, right like us, you 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.760 both hosting this podcast, us working with people. Lisa and 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.680 I like working with people on this day to day, 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.640 one on one I had a moment in my training 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.080 where I was working with a woman with an eating disorder, 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.680 and my supervisor said, you know, sometimes you can bring 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.920 yourself into the room and ask, you know, what's it 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.720 like for you to talk to me? He's like, because 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.120 you look like a healthy person. I remember that being like, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.000 look like a healthy person, and that was that's a compliment, right, 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.000 that's a compliment. That should be something that I you know, 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.680 I'm able to be like, thank you. But for me 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.119 with that eating disorder brain, it still came in and 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.400 it was like, you look healthy. You probably don't look 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.840 like you have an eating disorder. You probably you know, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.440 should start right. But I didn't act on that voice, 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.199 but they still come up. Me being healthy in that 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.880 moment was a bad thing all of a sudden, because 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.280 I reverted back to who I was when I thought 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.600 I was never going to be thin enough and definitely 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.520 not thin enough to get help. Okay, so you're encouragement 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.720 people is like, there's eating disorders, which we say here 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:41.360 all the time, but I'll just say it again. They 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.720 don't discriminate their little monsters, and they don't have the 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.320 right to take over your true self. Don't let those 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.840 voices tell you those lives and don't believe them, like 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.320 believe what's really I think they'd call it your capital 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.399 s self deep down if you push all of the 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.760 parts of view away, the angry heart, the depressed part, 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:03.480 of the anxious part, Like if you just have this 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.800 one capitalist self, what would that tell you? And like 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.400 mine would tell me in a moment like that you're healthy. 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.240 Healthy is a compliment. You want to be healthy? Healthy 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.480 is good? And kind of talk back to that voice, 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.400 that inner critic that's telling you, you know, you're not 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.000 good enough. You you don't deserve it, You don't deserve help, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.800 you don't deserve recovery, you don't deserve to live a 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.000 life that's full. And I just want to say to 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.720 just to remind people, wait has nothing to do with health. 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.639 So if someone even is regardless of what their intention 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:34.760 is that when they tell they're telling you you look healthy, 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.280 Like what are they basing that on? They have no 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.639 statistics on what's really going on inside of you mind, body, 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.119 and spirit. And I know that owning your story is 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.439 a really powerful way for you personally to move away 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.080 from living in shame. And it's one that you advocate 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:54.560 for your clients as well, or your patients. Sometimes when 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.639 we tell our stories to people, it lands on years 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.639 that could say something back that's triggering. I don't know 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.000 if you've experienced that personally. I know that I've been 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.400 in situations where people say the quote unquote wrong thing, 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.000 and it has the potential to set you back if 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.520 you're not in the right mindset. I feel like for 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.200 you at you're a really good example of somebody who 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.840 moves away from shame by owning your story. You're a clinician, 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.520 but you're like, I get it because I've been there 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.159 to the ugliest places of this disease, which I think 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.960 is just refreshing from a mental health counselor point of view, 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.440 where you oftentimes feel like you know they could talk 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.560 down to you or they don't get it. But in 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.320 your personal experience, how can we own our story, tell 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.400 it without shame, but protect ourselves from what people may 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.640 say back. This is a really good question, and I 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.119 actually use this technique a lot with my sexual trauma 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.560 survivor clients, because when you tell the story like that, 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.680 it has the ability to really retrigger you based off 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:58.920