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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shondaland Audio in

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Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. Information enables empowerment and enables

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Speaker 1: people to set themselves up for success. Like we think

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Speaker 1: about weddings. We often think and put a lot of

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Speaker 1: focus on the weddings, but very little focus on the

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Speaker 1: marriage itself. And so if you're pregnant, I would just say, like,

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Speaker 1: start to think about the things that you need to

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Speaker 1: help set you up for success postpartum. Hi, everybody, and

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Speaker 1: welcome back to Katie's Crib. As you know from listening

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Speaker 1: to this season, I was diagnosed the postpartum depression after

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Speaker 1: about six weeks having my daughter, Vera, and I would

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Speaker 1: be lost not only with Dr Stein, who we have

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Speaker 1: an episode this season who I Dr Stein was my

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Speaker 1: psychologist who diagnosed me with post our depression and helped

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Speaker 1: so much. And alongside Dr Stein, I had to moms

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Speaker 1: that literally saved my life because they also struggled with

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Speaker 1: postpartum depression and they were my mom crew who I

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Speaker 1: face timed and sobbed on the daily regular when I

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Speaker 1: was at my lowest lows and without them, I honestly

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Speaker 1: at the bottom. I really don't know where I would

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Speaker 1: be at right now. I don't know. And they have

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Speaker 1: so generously um agreed to come on the Crib to

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Speaker 1: tell us about their postpart of personal experiences and also

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Speaker 1: talk a lot about how they were able to be

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Speaker 1: there for me, how they've so generously paid it forward

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Speaker 1: by taking care of me, And now that I've sort

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Speaker 1: of come on the other side of postpartum depression, I

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Speaker 1: feel so lucky to have had them. And when I

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Speaker 1: find women struggling, I it's just it's like part of

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Speaker 1: this unwritten code that we are there for each other.

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Speaker 1: So we have Tallya Moore on the podcast today and

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Speaker 1: Mary O'Malley. You guys know Pallya Moore already because she's

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Speaker 1: been on The Katie's crib Um. She's an amazing episode

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Speaker 1: on transitioning babies to solid foods because she's the founder

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Speaker 1: of tunny Time, which is an incredible company that sells

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Speaker 1: healthy and organic baby and toddler food. I first met

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Speaker 1: Talia because she taught a birthing class actually when I

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Speaker 1: was pregnant with Albie, and she mentioned at that class

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Speaker 1: that she herself had postpartum depression, and I remembered that

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Speaker 1: and is why I reached out to her. As soon

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Speaker 1: as I was starting to go down, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I gotta call Talia. Talia and I also send our

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Speaker 1: kids to the same preschool, as well as Mary O'Malley.

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Speaker 1: Who's the other guests I have on today. Mary O'Malley

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Speaker 1: is a plotys teacher and a therapist of the body

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Speaker 1: and mind. She is is soul sister of mine and

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Speaker 1: a lot of times I would have bloody session with

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Speaker 1: her and she would talk to me about how hard

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Speaker 1: it was her postpartum experience with her daughter, Cordelia. The

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Speaker 1: minute I started going down the tubes, the two women

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Speaker 1: that came to my mind were Mary and Talia. I

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Speaker 1: face timed them daily sobbing showed them sides of myself

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Speaker 1: that I have never shown anyone. And I am so

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Speaker 1: thankful that you two are coming on Katie's crib today

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Speaker 1: to help anyone who's listening. If we can even help

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Speaker 1: one woman or one person listening who knows someone struggling

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Speaker 1: who's part of depression and give them the tools to

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Speaker 1: better show up for their friends, that will bring me

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Speaker 1: massive joy. So thank you Talia and Mary for coming

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Speaker 1: on Katie's crib and welcome postpartum depression. Okay, do a dance. No, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I have done a lot of

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Speaker 1: these podcasts and I'm rarely nervous for them. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with Talia. How is your birth, how was your pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: and how did postpartum depression come into your life? Boy,

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Speaker 1: the day that I found out that I was pregnant

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Speaker 1: was the day that I found out my mom had cancer.

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Speaker 1: So that set the tone for a pretty interesting time

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Speaker 1: my pregnancy. I had pretty bad nausea and vomiting. Um.

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Speaker 1: I literally had a really glamorous pregnancy. I had pregnancy acne.

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Speaker 1: I was vomiting morning through night up until nine and

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Speaker 1: a half months. You mean you weren't dancing in a

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Speaker 1: field in a beautiful empire wasted dress, like smelling copies

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Speaker 1: and loving pregnancy. Yeah, it's the glowing case that people

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Speaker 1: talk about. Skipped me. It didn't skipped me. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, there was just this under tone of sadness

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Speaker 1: about my mom and my whole family is in Australia.

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Speaker 1: I have an amazing Australian husband. She's here with me,

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Speaker 1: but everybody else is there. My pregnancy, for the most part,

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Speaker 1: was okay. It was a bit rough, but it was okay.

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Speaker 1: My mom and my sister had both had postpartum depression,

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Speaker 1: and I am a birth dooler and a childbook educator,

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Speaker 1: which is how we met. And I was well aware

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Speaker 1: of postpartum depression being the number one risk factor for

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Speaker 1: women postpartum because both my mom and my sister had it.

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Speaker 1: I set up an appointment with a perinatal therapist who

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Speaker 1: I still see. She's she saved my life. Her name's

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Speaker 1: Dr Lisa Osborne. And I found her and I went

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Speaker 1: to an appointment I think in my eighth month of pregnancy,

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Speaker 1: and I saw her a few times. Funnily enough, she

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Speaker 1: had asked me to bring my husband to one of

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Speaker 1: the appointments, and my husband, John Oh had asked her

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Speaker 1: what my role beat postpartum, and she said to him,

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Speaker 1: Talia's job is to swaddle the baby. Your job is

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Speaker 1: just swaddled Talia. And that really helped postparton because he

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Speaker 1: understood he needed to be there for me in a

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Speaker 1: big way. So anyway, I went into labor and the

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Speaker 1: labor was long, but it was pretty positive. It was

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Speaker 1: about forty hours. Yeah, it was long. Um, I had

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Speaker 1: decided to have a hospital birth, and as a birth

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Speaker 1: Douler was just like really eager to get out of there.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible,

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Speaker 1: and in retrospect, I think I checked myself out too soon.

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Speaker 1: The day after I had Miami, I went home and

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Speaker 1: that began a really terrible two weeks. My dad had

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Speaker 1: actually come for the birth, was there a week before

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Speaker 1: I had her in a week after because my mom

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Speaker 1: couldn't come from Australia, and it was a time of

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Speaker 1: true terror. Before I even talk about it, I do

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Speaker 1: want to say to everybody listening what I had was

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Speaker 1: a very extreme mood disorder. And I think our intention

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Speaker 1: here is to empower, to inform, to educate, to offer

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Speaker 1: support and resources. This is not to frighten anybody. This

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Speaker 1: is just my experience. And I think the importance of

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Speaker 1: having this conversation is knowing that cent of women go

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Speaker 1: on to have a postpartum mood disorder. That's huge, and

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Speaker 1: we have to be having these conversations because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot that you can actually do to set yourself up

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Speaker 1: for success. And I think because we don't have these

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Speaker 1: hard conversations because it's confronting, and let's face it, women

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Speaker 1: who are pregnant don't really want to think about how

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Speaker 1: hard it can be afterwards. But if we're not seeking support,

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Speaker 1: particularly for those of us that are have higher risk factors,

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Speaker 1: then you know it's much harder to ask for help

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Speaker 1: when you're desperate. For me, I had set myself up

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Speaker 1: for as what I imagined to be the success. I

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Speaker 1: had this amazing therapist, my dad and I had hired

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Speaker 1: a postpartum doer, so I checked myself out and we

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Speaker 1: went home. My daughter was cluster feeding from the first night.

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Speaker 1: So for those of you that don't know what cluster

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Speaker 1: feeding is, it's when your baby is on you, on

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Speaker 1: your breast all the time, trying to bring milk in.

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't get a break. She just wouldn't. She

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Speaker 1: was on me for hours just wanting to feed, and

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Speaker 1: I just couldn't. I didn't get a chance to sleep.

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Speaker 1: By the time she was able to sleep, I was

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Speaker 1: unable to sleep. I very quickly became overtired and anxious.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I got like twenty minute opportunities, and

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Speaker 1: there was so much pressure, even for me as a

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Speaker 1: child booth educator, having never had experienced a postpartum period before.

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Speaker 1: I had said to women, you know, when your baby sleeps,

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Speaker 1: you try and sleep, don't do houseworked or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: the pressure that we put on parents, on moms to

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Speaker 1: sleep when your baby sleeps, that pressure felt so intense

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Speaker 1: to me, Like you need to sleep right now. It's

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Speaker 1: like that thing where you're supposed to be up to

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Speaker 1: catch a flight at six am, and you are counting

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Speaker 1: back the hours and you're never going to sleep anyway,

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Speaker 1: and now you're in an anxious tail spin about the

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Speaker 1: sleep itself which is keeping you up, and it is

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Speaker 1: a horrible cycle. Yeah, So very quickly, after three or

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Speaker 1: four days of no sleep, I began a very steep

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Speaker 1: decline down into a bad place. I am a birth dooler,

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Speaker 1: and I'm all about dolors, but the woman that I

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Speaker 1: hired was not quite right for me. Also, when my

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Speaker 1: dad left and we still had this woman with us

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Speaker 1: helping at nighttimes, I remember sitting in the chair next

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Speaker 1: to my bed with Miami on my breast. She was

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Speaker 1: just cluster feeding constantly on me and I sat there

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Speaker 1: on this chair just crying and crying, and I remember

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Speaker 1: saying to this postpartum do it can you cuddle me?

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Speaker 1: I need to be held, she said, I. I won't

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Speaker 1: cuddle you, but I'll sort of like rub your back

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Speaker 1: like she she just wasn't able to. We went on

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Speaker 1: the same She don't know I needed more, and I

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Speaker 1: needed maybe more than she could offer. I think the

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Speaker 1: other element of it is I have come to understand

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Speaker 1: about myself that I find change a little tricky, and

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Speaker 1: there is no greater change for a woman to go

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Speaker 1: from no child to child. Your life just looks instantaneously different.

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Speaker 1: Nothing is the same, but everything is the same. I

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Speaker 1: couldn't recognize myself. I couldn't recognize my life, and I

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Speaker 1: was trying to find a way in my head to

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Speaker 1: get out of the situation which you cannot. Can I interrupt?

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Speaker 1: Once you got into this no sleep cycle and you're

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Speaker 1: sobbing and you're not able to really get yourself out

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Speaker 1: of it, your first call was it to the therapist

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Speaker 1: and to say, may day, something is wrong? What do

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Speaker 1: I do? Or was it was your husband, like this

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Speaker 1: isn't looking good, so my therapist. I can't remember exactly

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Speaker 1: when she started reaching out to me, but it was

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. It might have been like day three and

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Speaker 1: I think After that first checking with her, she realized

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Speaker 1: that I was not in a good way, and she

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Speaker 1: started checking in every day. And I want to say

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Speaker 1: something that I think you so backwards, and that is

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Speaker 1: that I had conversations also with my obstetrition. At the time,

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Speaker 1: I felt like he was so uncomfortable with my distress.

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Speaker 1: He offered me no resources or no help. And I

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Speaker 1: kid you not had I not received the amazing support

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Speaker 1: from my therapist who at two weeks when I said

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Speaker 1: to her, what does having a nervous breakdown look like?

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Speaker 1: Because I think I'm having it right now, and at

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Speaker 1: that time was starting to think, like I really cannot

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Speaker 1: live like this. Ye I had that. I am certain

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Speaker 1: that if on that day she had not said to me, Talia,

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Speaker 1: I really would like you to go and see a

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Speaker 1: psychiatrist today. I really wonder what would have happened if

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Speaker 1: I had not gotten that appointment on that day. I

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Speaker 1: called around to some people that she had recommended, and

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Speaker 1: this one psychiatrist called me back pretty quickly and she

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Speaker 1: was like, it's going to be okay. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: make time meet you at my office in a couple

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Speaker 1: of hours. My therapist said to me what do you

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Speaker 1: see when you see your child? And I said to her,

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Speaker 1: I don't see her. The anxiety is too loud. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's when that chatter and that anxiety is

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Speaker 1: so loud in your mind that for me I clipped

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Speaker 1: into suffering. We always say this in childbirth education. Any

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Speaker 1: woman can cope with pain, but no woman should suffer.

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Speaker 1: And I said that to you, Katie, at the decision

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Speaker 1: about medication, about medication, we do not need to suffer.

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Speaker 1: When I went to see the psychiatrist, she said to me,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to put you onto medications. I'd like to

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Speaker 1: put you on searchlene. I also want to give you lurazepam,

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Speaker 1: which is I think of benzo diazepine for anxiety. My

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Speaker 1: reaction to her was I studied natural medicine in Australia.

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Speaker 1: I really do not want to take medication. What else

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Speaker 1: can you give me? And she said to me, if

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Speaker 1: you had an infection, if you have mastitis, would you

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Speaker 1: take the antibiotics? And I said, of course, And she

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Speaker 1: said this is the same thing. You need help. You've

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Speaker 1: tried other things. It's not working. You need help. And

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Speaker 1: the bravest thing to do is to accept the help. Dude,

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Speaker 1: we all have that same reaction. We'll get to Mary's

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Speaker 1: story too. Like you were like no, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh hell no, I'm getting a second opinion. This is bullshit.

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Speaker 1: I don't need medication. And Mary, I think you'll tell

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Speaker 1: your story. But you were like give me six months before, Like, which,

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Speaker 1: why this is such an important conversation? Why? Because again,

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Speaker 1: what you're bringing up tell you is that we should

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Speaker 1: not be struggling like this. There's so many layers to

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Speaker 1: this about being a woman and acting like we're supposed

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Speaker 1: to know how to be moms from the jump, and

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Speaker 1: we're supposed to go through this identity shift beautifully and

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Speaker 1: perfectly and without complain or without struggle or whatever it

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Speaker 1: is that happens to you. And you sure as ship

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Speaker 1: shouldn't ask for help. You sure as ship shouldn't tell

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Speaker 1: someone that you don't like what's going on. It's so crazy,

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Speaker 1: you guys, because I have a fucking podcast about this

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Speaker 1: ship and I still fell for every trap and was like,

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Speaker 1: it's not me. Look over here, I'm fine, I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: I've got this. I want to hear Mary's story. Mary,

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Speaker 1: love of my life, tell me how your pregnancy was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I also, I just want to say, what something

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Speaker 1: that I'm just noticing and Holly it's bringing up and

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Speaker 1: you're bringing up Katie too, is that. I think it's

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Speaker 1: so important that we're talking about this in not only

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Speaker 1: just to bring awareness of it, to bring to bring

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Speaker 1: normalization to it. Because I remember desperately searching at like two, three,

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Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning to find stories like mine

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Speaker 1: that spoke to me because I didn't know anybody that

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Speaker 1: was seemingly going through what I was going through. It's

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Speaker 1: so important that other people have a narrative to go to.

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Speaker 1: So if I am being really honest with myself about

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Speaker 1: my journey, I think I actually had greenatal depression. So

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Speaker 1: I live in Los Angeles with my husband and the

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Speaker 1: rest of my family lives on the East Coast. My

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Speaker 1: husbands family as well, so we're not as far as Australia,

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Speaker 1: but we don't have anybody closed by us. I just

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Speaker 1: remember thinking my whole life that I wanted to have

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Speaker 1: a baby on the first of five children. I'm the

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Speaker 1: oldest and I'm the only girl, so I kind of

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Speaker 1: thought my whole life that I was going to have

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Speaker 1: a lot of children. And my mother had always told

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Speaker 1: the story of how she had five children with no help.

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Speaker 1: She didn't need an at the dural she so she

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Speaker 1: went through it. And so I grew up with this

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Speaker 1: idea that I was like born for this in a way,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like I could do

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Speaker 1: this this d n A. I got pregnant and then

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Speaker 1: very soon after started experiencing awful morning sickness. And I

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Speaker 1: wasn't throwing up, but I had nausea just NonStop, and

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Speaker 1: I was teaching pilates and having to show up for

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Speaker 1: classes for private sessions, and I just felt like garbage.

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Speaker 1: That light went off when I went, Wow, women are

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Speaker 1: walking around all over the world just doing this and

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Speaker 1: nobody seems to care. And that was this right, and

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Speaker 1: this is just what it is? Right? Oh yeah, morning sickness.

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Speaker 1: So that's tough, and we again normalize all these things

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Speaker 1: that sometimes shouldn't be normalized. And so remember thinking, I

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Speaker 1: felt so bad, When is the point going to come

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Speaker 1: where I feel like the empowered, beautiful woman that I'm

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Speaker 1: meant to be. It never came. I felt I just

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Speaker 1: felt horrible for about five or six months. So and

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Speaker 1: my by the way, my mother never had morning sickness.

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Speaker 1: So I already am out of the gate feeling like

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Speaker 1: this is is, it is not going to be, how

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Speaker 1: it's gonna go okay. On top of it, I was

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Speaker 1: teaching meditation at the time. I had everybody telling me

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Speaker 1: how great my pregnancy was going to be. Tally, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you had a similar experience, right, how great it

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Speaker 1: was going to be, how lucky my baby was, that

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Speaker 1: that I was this kind of person who meditates and

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Speaker 1: teaches pilates and all this sort of stuff. And I

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Speaker 1: immediately started feeling pressure to perform in a way right,

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Speaker 1: like I had to look and be a certain way.

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Speaker 1: And I had a really really strong wiring like Talia did,

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Speaker 1: to be natural. You know, I had this experience with

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Speaker 1: my own mother where she had done things naturally. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, my mother never forced anything on me.

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Speaker 1: This is just a story I grew up with, right,

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Speaker 1: I knew about her. This was how I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it. And I also had felt very much that

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Speaker 1: I had a bend towards more holistic, silent way of being,

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Speaker 1: and I felt I wanted to have no at the

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Speaker 1: dural and I was going to go to the hospital

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Speaker 1: at the last minute, and I had a birth plan

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Speaker 1: and etcetera, etcetera, and I was noticing as my pregnancy

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Speaker 1: continued that I was I was really feeling more scared

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Speaker 1: than excited. And I didn't know what I was afraid of,

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Speaker 1: but I was afraid. At the same time. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to be the person that everyone says I'm supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to fill this role right of this natural,

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Speaker 1: holistic whatever you want to earth mother or whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to call it. Then we get towards the end

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Speaker 1: of my pregnancy and my blood pressure goes up, and

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Speaker 1: I should also speak to I want to talk to

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Speaker 1: speak to something that hally Ha said about the o B.

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Speaker 1: I had an obie and I picked this obe because

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Speaker 1: I was told she was like a midwife, and I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's what I want. From the minute I met her,

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Speaker 1: we did not click and I should have changed myob

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Speaker 1: Oh why do we do this? We tell you, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you why. I'll tell you why because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be the good girl that did everything right, and

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Speaker 1: I thought something was wrong with me that we didn't click.

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Speaker 1: Because all these people were telling me how great she was.

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Speaker 1: They were telling me how great my pregnancy was. They

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Speaker 1: were telling me what a great mother I was going

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Speaker 1: to be, and there was this disconnect, and I kept

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Speaker 1: trying to make it happen, and it wasn't happening. I

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Speaker 1: kept talking about how scared I was, and my ob

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Speaker 1: kept pushing it away, and it's going to be fine.

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Speaker 1: I went in the day. I was do with really

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Speaker 1: high blood pressure, which comes from my anxiety, which by

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Speaker 1: the most, I have a very strong history with anxiety,

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Speaker 1: have been medicated in the past, did not want to

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Speaker 1: be didn't even think about being medicated for this pregnancy

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Speaker 1: because it was unnatural and I've been fine for years,

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Speaker 1: and why I need to And I remember she threatened

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Speaker 1: me and she said, if your blood pressure doesn't go

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Speaker 1: down in four hours, I'm inducing you. And that was

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this incredibly scary I want to say

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Speaker 1: tidal weight. So I remember lying in my mom had

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Speaker 1: flown out from Florida. I remember lying in the dark

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Speaker 1: on my left side, just crying and praying to anybody

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Speaker 1: that would listen, please let my bread pressure go down.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be induced because I had heard

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Speaker 1: the potos in and that this in the C section.

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Speaker 1: All the things right and my blood pressure goes down,

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Speaker 1: and my doctor comes in and she says to me,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to lie in the dark on your

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Speaker 1: left side for your blood pressure to go down. I

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Speaker 1: want you to come in every day and you're gonna

355
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Speaker 1: get a your analysis, and you're going to get a

356
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Speaker 1: stress test, and if anything looks bad, we're going to

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Speaker 1: the hospital. So every day for a week, my husband

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00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: would drive me to cedars. I would be hysterical, hoping

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00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: it's crazy, willing myself to destress so that I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to go into this awful situation. And then a

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Speaker 1: week about a week over five days over my due date,

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00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: my amniotic fluid was really low, and my doctor said

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Speaker 1: we gotta go hysterical, like just it just felt like

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Speaker 1: the end of the world because I've been so scared

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Speaker 1: and feeling slowly getting out of control. I felt like

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Speaker 1: everything had been was out of control. So we go

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Speaker 1: to the hospital. I get induced. I asked for the

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Speaker 1: most subtle induction, which she kind of rolls in her

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Speaker 1: eyes at, but she does it anyway. I go on

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Speaker 1: to be in labor and one thing my adoptor didn't

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Speaker 1: tell me was that my child was okay, she standing

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Speaker 1: side up, so I all of a sudden that went

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Speaker 1: from got out of four to ten centimeters and in

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Speaker 1: less than six hours, I was crawling on my hands

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Speaker 1: and knees with that labor and I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: was happening. I didn't want an epidural, right because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be the person who didn't do any of

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Speaker 1: the things. And finally a duela who was at the hospital,

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Speaker 1: who I believe is the head of Beanie Birth, came

380
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Speaker 1: in to see me. She wasn't even my duela, Anna

381
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Speaker 1: Anna Paula, and she said to me, you can be

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Speaker 1: in pain, but you don't have to suffer. And it

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Speaker 1: just in my mind. She said the same thing to me,

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Speaker 1: She said, you are suffering. Get the epidural. I got

385
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: the epi dural pushed for three and a half hours.

386
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Speaker 1: My daughter arrived. I felt like a failure of getting

387
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: me at the girl, felt like a failure for not

388
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: doing it naturally. So then I go to nurse my

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00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: daughter and it's really painful. By the way, had to

390
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 1: breastfeed right, and went to an went to a natural

391
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: birthing class. Never talked about cesareans, never talked about at

392
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: the girls. It was just all this is how it

393
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: goes naturally. Your body is meant to do this, You're

394
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: meant to do all this bullshit. So my daughter has

395
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: a hard time nursing. I think it hurts. They're telling

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Speaker 1: me it's fine. She is screaming in the middle of

397
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: the night in the hospital and I am like, already

398
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: going I can't do this. Oh my god. I didn't

399
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: even know what I was afraid of. This is it

400
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: right here? Should we bring her home? The first night

401
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: she literally screamed for six hours straight, six hours straight?

402
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: So sorry, did I use formula? No? I didn't because

403
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want to use formula. I wanted to nurse.

404
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to nurse her and it's hurting so badly,

405
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: and I am thinking, what did I do? I have

406
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: to escape. I've got to get out of here. My

407
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: life has been turned upside down. My body is hurting me.

408
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: My breast pain, nipple pain, you, Oh my god, it's horrible.

409
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: So we finally find out a lactation consultant comes to

410
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: the house. My daughter has a severe tongue tie. The

411
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: reason she's screaming is because she's starting she's losing weight.

412
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Speaker 1: I had to pump, and my husband had to feed

413
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Speaker 1: her with a feeding tube on his fingertips. And then

414
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: seven days later he's a film industry. Hey, you had

415
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: to go out of town for four days and I

416
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: had to take her with my mom to get a

417
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: laser tongue tie. Then we think we're good, but I'm

418
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: pumping NonStop because she can't nurse yet, she's figuring out

419
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: how to nurse. Fast forward to six weeks of pumping NonStop,

420
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: going to Cranio's sake girl, taking her to a pediatric

421
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: g I because she's throwing up after every meal, having

422
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: to give her medication after every meal, can't put her

423
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: down for half an hour after she eat. It was

424
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: a nightmare, and my anxiety was actually showing up its rage.

425
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: I was finding myself so short, so angry. I felt

426
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: like I had been lied to. I felt the mythology

427
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 1: of motherhood crushing me. I kept looking around, going how

428
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: why does anyone want to do this? This is awful.

429
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: My life has been totally dismantled, and I'm left in

430
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: pain with a screaming child who I can't seem to feed,

431
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: I can't seem to soothe. And everybody was telling me

432
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: that my anxiety and my stress was causing the problem.

433
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: That was really the worst part. People go, if you

434
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: just relaxed a little bit, and I would say, I

435
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 1: think I'm pretty sure my daughter has call it. No,

436
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: if you just relaxed a little bit and just took

437
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: it easy, did more skin to skin, and I thought,

438
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm doing everything. I can't this is not something isn't working.

439
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: And I was in so much distress. I remember we

440
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: were walking around the neighborhood one night, and I remember

441
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: we had friends that were thinking about getting pregnant, and

442
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: I said to my husband, I was so sad. I know,

443
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: I said to him, if they honestly asked me, I

444
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: would tell them they should never do it. And it

445
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: was so heartbreaking for me because it was I had

446
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: this idea about myself my whole life, that I was

447
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: meant to do this thing, and now I'm doing the thing,

448
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 1: and it feels awful. It feels like I made a

449
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: huge mistake. I can't get out of it, I can't

450
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: escape it. I remember there was a one woman in

451
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: my Burthen costumes, a therapist, and I would we would

452
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: text at all hours of the night. I just kept

453
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: saying to her, I'm not doing okay, and I kept

454
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: searching for to hear other stories, and I started to

455
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: realize that my story was diverging. It's like one month,

456
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: two months later, it was still a ship show, but

457
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: people were kind of getting in a group. I was

458
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: just continuing down this path. And I remember at about

459
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: two and a half months. I remember it's like three

460
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, and I said to her, I

461
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: really need to see somebody about this. I'm really unhappy

462
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: and I'm not doing well. And I started to think

463
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: about ways I could escape the situation, which would be

464
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: too for me to remove myself from the situation. And

465
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: again I don't I don't say this to scare people.

466
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: I say this to say that I had never had

467
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: thoughts like this before. And I wouldn't even call it ideation.

468
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: It's just this idea of I gotta get I gotta

469
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: get out of this because it's always going to be

470
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: like this. It's never going to be different, it's always

471
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: going to feel like this, and this was a mistake.

472
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: She sent me to a therapist. I called her that

473
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: she called me right back and I went and talk

474
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: to her. And that was the first time I was

475
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: not three months that she started talking to me about

476
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: not only what postpartum depression and anxiety looks like, but

477
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: unlike Aaliyah, I didn't realize I had so many risk factors.

478
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: I had so many. There's something called an ACE test.

479
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: Did you take this TD? Have you heard of it? Right?

480
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: The adverse childhood experiences Right. I'm not going to get

481
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: into it, but there was some stuff that happened when

482
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: I was younger that pretty much primed me to have

483
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: this exact experience. And I didn't know it. And I

484
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: was so hell bent on fulfilling what I thought was

485
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: my role that I didn't want to see that this

486
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: was what was going on. I felt like such. I

487
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: just felt so much incredible shame. I was so ashamed.

488
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: I kept seeing her for a couple of months and

489
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: it was helping, but it wasn't getting to where I

490
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: needed it to be to function. And she finally said

491
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: to me, I think you need to go and talk

492
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist. And I said the same thing as Tally. No,

493
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take her. I'm gonna do this is death.

494
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: And she said to me, if you have a toothache

495
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: and you need to get a tooth taken out. Are

496
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: you going to get no vacane? I said yeah. She said,

497
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 1: why would okay like to deal with this problem? You

498
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: can't even touch it until you get medicated, because right

499
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: now you are so far away from even being rational

500
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: about this. You can't even see outside yourself. And so

501
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: I went to see my most incredible psychiatrist, Dr Meryl Sparago.

502
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: Thank God for our psychiatrist, Thanks God for therapist. Yes,

503
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: thank god, he's a godsend. And I remember sitting in

504
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: his office and I just couldn't stop crying. And I

505
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: remember him telling me this is very treatable. You can

506
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: do this. You're going to have to go on medication.

507
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: And I think I was more open to it by

508
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: that point, because about six months and I thought, I've

509
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: got to be done with this. Something has to shift.

510
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: And he said two really important things to me, which

511
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: was one, motherhood is the biggest loss you'll ever experience

512
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: and the biggest game you'll ever experience. But you can't

513
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: see what you've gained until you acknowledge what you've lost.

514
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: That was like WHOA from me. It was so powerful

515
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: for me because I was so caught up in missing

516
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: my old life wanting it to be different. That I

517
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: couldn't see all the have this incredible child here, I

518
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: couldn't see it. All I could see was what I

519
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: wasn't getting, what was lost. I couldn't own it because

520
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: it was all wrapped up. And he also said to me,

521
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: you need to get at least six hours of uninterrupted

522
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: sleep at night. Part of what's going on, part of

523
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: what medication is going to help you with, was that

524
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: your prefrontal cortex, which is the rational part of your brain,

525
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: is not online at all. So no matter what meditation

526
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: you do, yoga, breathing isn't gonna do shit because you're

527
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: amygdala is just on fire and it is in survival mode.

528
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: You've got to get out of survival mode. I was like, okay,

529
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: you we're talking science. I can get down with this.

530
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Are right, Mary's super into science. But that was big

531
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: for me. That was the thing that I thought, I'm

532
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: so desperate, I need help, And it changed changed my life.

533
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: It was hard for me to say that I was

534
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: on medication. Took me a long time to tell people

535
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: that I was on medication, and now I tell everyone, yeah,

536
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And thank god you both told me because

537
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: I was horrified. My villain that I had found for

538
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: my anxiety my depression was COVID and I was having

539
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: like three panic attacks a week. At about week six,

540
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: I went to see my O B and I was

541
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: still uncontrollably sobbing all the time for no reason. And

542
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: she was like, you know, around week two or three,

543
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: we can look at it. But at week six seven,

544
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: if you're still uncontrollably sobbing, I think, I think we've

545
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: got to really pay attention to this. But when I

546
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: went to my psychiatrists, I thought she was going to say,

547
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: here's an at a VAN. Put it under your tongue

548
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: when you feel a panic attack coming on, and move on.

549
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: You're the most stable person I've ever met. That's what

550
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm not just gonna say. You've never had trauma, You've

551
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: lived a charmed life. You have to baby blessings, you've

552
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: got this, you've got a mom podcast, and so here

553
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: for the panic attacks for COVID. Just take out of

554
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: VAN when you feel panics had coming on, You'll be good. No.

555
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: At the end of my two and a half hour

556
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: consultation with my psychiatrist, who I had never met before,

557
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: and guys have been in therapy for twelve years. I

558
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: love my therapist, and she was like, I think you

559
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: should also talk to a psychiatrist. After I had a

560
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: two and a half hour evaluation, she said, so you

561
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: have very high post part of depression, and my recommendation

562
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,479
Speaker 1: for you is that you go on medication. And I

563
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: was like, medication every day and she was like yeah,

564
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: every day. And I was like, no, thanks so much

565
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: for your two and a half hours. I'm going to

566
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: go find somebody else. Like I is like, that is

567
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: not me. I do not have a problem. And then

568
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: I hit rock bottom. It disrupts your sense of self right, like,

569
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: oh my god. It feels like it shatters this illusion

570
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: you have about who you are and what you're capable of,

571
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: and that's a different identity. It's scary. Now. I have

572
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: a million people I love in my life who have

573
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: been on medication, who've been off medication, who've been on

574
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: medication forever, and that's fine for them, but it would

575
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: came to me. I was so upset. And then about

576
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: a week later, not only was I uncontrollably sobbing all

577
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: the time, and I had similar to utahalia like vera

578
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: on my breast looking up at the ceiling, praying to

579
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: anybody who would listen, praying to ancestors, praying to God

580
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: to please change the way I'm feeling about my life

581
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: right now. And I don't know why I'm feeling this way,

582
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: but I can't stop crying, and I can't stop having

583
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: panic attacks and rubbing crystals and taking three hour long

584
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: showers where I'm meditating, but nothing's fucking working. I am miserable.

585
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: I don't recognize myself. A week later, after she said

586
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: I needed medication, she had called the prescription into Walgreens.

587
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: I refused to pick it up. I woke up. I

588
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: it sat there and I was talking to both of

589
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: you guys about whether or not to go on it

590
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: and what to do. And that's not me. And then

591
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: it started to move from myself onto my son. I

592
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 1: had a few rough days. I started to think, oh,

593
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: not only I was having suicidal thoughts which I had

594
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: never had in my whole life, of I don't want

595
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: to be here. If I have to wake up one

596
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: more day feeling like this, I can't do it. I

597
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: started to think Albie was being a dick who I love,

598
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: but he was really giving me a run for my money.

599
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 1: And not look Albie. I love you so much when

600
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: you listen to this when you're like eighteen, or maybe

601
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: you won't ever. But I started to be like, what

602
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: if he just fell the pool, or what if he

603
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: just choked on this tomato I'm cutting up for him

604
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: for dinner. I can't do this. I can't be your mother.

605
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: And I ran into Adam and like Talia when she said,

606
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: what does it look like to have a psychotic break?

607
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: I said to Adam, what happens if I need to

608
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: be put into a mental institution because I am unfit

609
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: to parents. I don't trust myself anymore. I don't trust

610
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: the thoughts I'm having. I'm really scared because I'm not

611
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: liking being a parent right now. I'm not liking myself

612
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: right now. I've never felt this low, and I've never

613
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: felt this scared. And I think you're going to have

614
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: to put me away and they're going to take my

615
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: children away. And that's when I drove to Walgreens and

616
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: said I don't know how to help myself anymore. My

617
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: O B, my elactation consultant, my psychiatrist, and my therapyst

618
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: have all said that they're worried and that they advise

619
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: for me to take the medicine, and I don't know

620
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: why I'm having such resistance and why I feel like

621
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: such a failure. But now my children what's on the line.

622
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: I was cool with it when it was my own

623
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 1: life on the lone. But when it transferred to them

624
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: and to my ability to parent is when I was like,

625
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: this has gone on too long and it's too scary.

626
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: And then I really needed you, guys, because I didn't

627
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: call any of my best friends. I'm very lucky. I

628
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: have incredible women in my life, and my best friends

629
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: of twenty five years, I couldn't call them. Like my

630
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: best friend Amy had a baby three months ahead of me,

631
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: and she was having a glorious experience. I kept checking

632
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: in with her like she was having crying stuff whatever,

633
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: but she wasn't where I was, and so diverged. Yes, exactly,

634
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't call my mom really like I couldn't. I

635
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: needed you to show me and know when you said

636
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: I know what you're going through, I know what's happening.

637
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: I knew that you got it, and I could also

638
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: look at you and say they've made it. There. They

639
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: have five year olds like, who are thriving, and you

640
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: guys are okay, you're not just saying the mantra, which

641
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: is all I was saying to myself was just one

642
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: ft in front of the other, one ft in front

643
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: the other one because I couldn't even get up. Vera

644
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: would cry to breastfeed, and I was like, I don't

645
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 1: want to go in there, because I knew she was

646
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: going to sense that I was a fucking mess. Casey Wilson,

647
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: who we've had on the podcast, who did the postpartum

648
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: depression episode season one, I called her as well, and

649
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: she talked to me off such allege and sent me

650
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: flowers that helped, which so nice of her. Guys, again

651
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: for the friendship and support that I got from you

652
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: guys and Casey as moms who had been through it

653
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: before just said the eight is coming. This is obviously

654
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: still very close to my experience with the darkest depths

655
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: of postpartum depression. But like I don't I don't know,

656
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: Like you guys said, I don't know what would happen,

657
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think part of the issue is

658
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: that in our society, we don't parents in day to

659
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: day in communities were so much on our own we

660
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 1: don't see the suffering every aspect of the experience, from

661
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: what different labors look like, what different postpartums look like.

662
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: As I said to you, Katie, like you did not

663
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: have a pregnancy and a postpartum period during normal times.

664
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: The isolation that we feel in our society postpartum, particularly

665
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: in the US. I love America, but goodness gracious, the

666
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: postpartum horrible is absolutely appalling. And knowing that the number

667
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: one risk factor postpartum is postpartum disorders, I think it's

668
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: the number one reason for maternal postpartum maternal death is suicide.

669
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: Why is there not more support? We text a friend

670
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: or go on Facebook or that blog or whatever, but

671
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: nobody's on there really having the conversation about what did

672
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: you do to get through the day, or where do

673
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: I get support for not feeling a connection with my child?

674
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: Like there's just so there's so little support. I just

675
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: hope every woman who has a baby knows someone, whether

676
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: it's a really close friend or more of an acquaintance,

677
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: that they know has been truthful to them and has

678
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: said I struggled after so that they have someone Because

679
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: I knew that Talia and Mary, who I knew had struggled,

680
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm struggling. I need to doctor

681
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: who was struggling. Mother, Like right now, like right now,

682
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: tell me about how your spouse has supported you, Mary

683
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: um So again different than Talia right we I didn't

684
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: have this, I wish I had. I didn't have this

685
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: sense going in that this is something that that might occur.

686
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: My husband was very supportive, but understandably really confused. Looking

687
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: back on it now, I think he was probably terrified.

688
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: I can imagine how scary it would be. Two again.

689
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: You're having this radical transformation right your whole again in

690
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: the snap of the thing er. Your entire lives have changed,

691
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: and you sort of expect there to be ups and downs,

692
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: but you don't expect this to happen where your partner

693
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: becomes almost unknown to you. Evan was incredibly support worative

694
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: in as much as he could say, yes, go do

695
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: these appointments, Yes, do therapy. There was never a moment

696
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: where he said I don't think this is good, or

697
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: I can't be here, I can't have the baby when

698
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: you're going. It was never that, but I think it

699
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: was probably a pretty traumatic experience, and to be very honest,

700
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: there were periods of time where again I told you

701
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: a lot of my postpartum express itself as rage. You know,

702
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: we've talked about it later. How hard it was for

703
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: him to hold the space of just taking what I

704
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: was giving, which was awful, and I had to work

705
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: through a lot of the shame around feeling that way

706
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: and recognizing that was a symptom of a disease or

707
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: symptom of an illness. But he was really incredible at

708
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: just holding the space for me to be how I was,

709
00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: and was not reactive but responsive. That makes he was

710
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: really aware that something wasn't going, wasn't right, and he

711
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: was very calm, and he would often remind me of

712
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: the good moment too, because all I could see with

713
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 1: the bad moment, he would fill in the other side

714
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: of the picture. But it isn't always like this. There's

715
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: also some good stuff here that was hard, that was

716
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: really hard for me to see in the beginning. But

717
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 1: it was tough. I was not a joy to be around.

718
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: I was not either. I the first bunch of weeks,

719
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: I was so me into Adam and my parents like

720
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: so like, mean, what about you, Talia? How is Johnna?

721
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: Was he like freak out? You know, Jonah and I

722
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: are so different. Like I, he's just super duper calm.

723
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: So it has had for him to understand the spiral

724
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: that I can go on with anxiety just because he

725
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: does not experience it himself. He's so lucky. I feel

726
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: very lucky with Johnah because we've been together sixteen seventeen

727
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: is a very long time. So we got to work

728
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: through a lot of our ship early on and had

729
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: come up with a really good way of communicating, which

730
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,479
Speaker 1: is very honest and upfront. That moment of saying I'm

731
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: not doing well and I'm asking for help. I was

732
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: able to say that to him and he was responsive

733
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 1: to that, and I think the validating of these vulnerable,

734
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: overwhelming emotions is the first step towards getting help. So

735
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: he was very very sweet and kept telling me that

736
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: everything was going to be okay. I would watch him

737
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: with Miami. He would pick Miami up and he would

738
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: look at her, and I would see this absolute joy

739
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: between the two of them. I have the same and

740
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: you didn't have that. No, I didn't have that, and

741
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: I was looking at it and I was like and

742
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: like yeah, I just was like, what's wrong with me?

743
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: You know? And I would see that. I actually realized

744
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: that it was better for me to say to him,

745
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: I need you to know right now, I'm having a

746
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: really tough time watching you to connect. I don't want

747
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: you to change what you're doing, do what you're doing,

748
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: but I just need to tell you I feel so

749
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: sad that I don't feel what you're feeling right now.

750
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: And like just saying it made it, It lessened the

751
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: shame of it. He just kept telling me that it

752
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: was going to be okay, and I believed him. And

753
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: like you said, like I've said, I've quoted you on

754
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: this podcast many times. Not love at first late for everyone. Yes,

755
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: it's a slow burn. Yes, for some people it's instantaneous love.

756
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,240
Speaker 1: It's like love at first sight when you see your baby.

757
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: But for many women and men, it is a friendship

758
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: that turns into a love affair. That was absolutely the

759
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: case for me. I didn't feelings overwhelming love until MYNEI

760
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: was much older, and now I'm totally obsessed with her.

761
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: But it took many months. My parents were here when

762
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: I had Vera and I was struggling. Obviously, he was

763
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: joking round to cover ship, but my dad was like,

764
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: I was like oh my god, I'm so fucked up.

765
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: I kept saying this. He's like, but then, don't you

766
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: look at your daughter's face and it makes you feel

767
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: so much better? And I dead pan looked at him

768
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: and I said it doesn't. And he was like his

769
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: face got scared, like he was like, oh ship. And

770
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it doesn't make me feel better.

771
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,959
Speaker 1: Can I actually speak to that? Yes. So my mom

772
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: did the same thing, and I r ignize what she

773
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: was doing was she was really scared. She's seeing her

774
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: daughter basically disintegrate in front of her. And I've generally

775
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: been someone my whole life who has gotten what I

776
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: when And I want to say couch that I don't

777
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: want to say gotten what I wanted, because I haven't

778
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: gotten at all. But what I mean is I've been

779
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: able to access the things that I want to do

780
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: with my life and do them in a somewhat successful way. Now,

781
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: my life has taken many turns. I don't live a

782
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 1: perfect golden life by any shape of imagination, but I've

783
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: generally been the kind of person that if I want something,

784
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: I try to go out and get it right. And

785
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: so I my mom was seeing this somewhat very capable

786
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: who she knew right as a capable person, just disintegrating,

787
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 1: just falling apart, not being able to function. And her

788
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: way I think of trying her fear of seeing me

789
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: that way was to say things like, but she's so healthy,

790
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: and aren't you so happy that don't you love her

791
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: so much? And it'll all make it better. And what

792
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: that actually did to me was make me feel worse.

793
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: I felt so much shame because I couldn't get to

794
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: the place that she was in love as her first grandchild,

795
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: and then my husband the same way love with her,

796
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: and I kept thinking, what is wrong with me? What

797
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: is wrong with me that I can't feel this, and

798
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 1: that shame just spiral me more and more into isolation

799
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: and feeling like I was just suffering alone and that

800
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: that there was something so wrong I was not I

801
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: can't do this, this is not right. I shouldn't feel

802
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: like this. I should feel like that. And that's why

803
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: I talk about the crushing mythology of motherhood. And I

804
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: love what Tally is talking about, this idea that how

805
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: do you love someone you've never met before? You know,

806
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: my I'm obsessed with my daughter and she is constantly

807
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: revealing herself to me, you know, in this incredible way. Okay,

808
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: so we all decided to go on medication for myself, Like,

809
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: I went on medication, and my psychiatrist therapists were also like, oh,

810
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: just because you go on medication doesn't mean you drop

811
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: all the other tools. I felt like I had to

812
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: work my ass off to dig myself out of this place.

813
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: So I started medication, which was very triggering and really

814
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: hard just to take it every day and think about it,

815
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: like I felt such shame even like putting into my

816
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: mouth and then breastfeeding on it. But I wanted to

817
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: ask you guys, when you started to feel better, when

818
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: you started to feel like yourself, because that was such

819
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: an anchor for me. Was like, at some point, you're

820
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: going to feel like yourself again. And I want to

821
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: know what your advice would be in how you support

822
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: someone with POSTPARM depression, Like what did you find helpful

823
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: for people around you to do. Let's start with how

824
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: people can help someone struggling with POSTPARM depression, and then

825
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: we'll come back around to what women can do who

826
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: think they might have it, or prepare themselves or whatever.

827
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: For me, it was pretty quick that I started feeling better.

828
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: The day that I went to see the psychiatrist is

829
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: the day that she told me to take leazep m

830
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: in the evening and I got my first night of sleep. Boy,

831
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 1: just getting some sleep, Mike Abak difference. I actually think

832
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: that I'm still five years later dealing with some of

833
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 1: the trauma, and it has taken me this long to

834
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: get to a point where I could even consider having

835
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: another baby. I just the trauma was too heightened for

836
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: me to imagine putting myself in this situation again. So

837
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: it's been a slow process. But I will say this,

838
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: I know that the quicker that women can get the

839
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: support that they need, the quicker things turn around. Postpartum

840
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: depression took many months for me to get to a

841
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: point where I made the decision that I was okay

842
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: to start weaning myself off of it. I think I

843
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: was on the medication a year or a bit more.

844
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: One day I was like, I actually think I'm ready

845
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: to try without it. But for me, the post part

846
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: of anxiety was what needed to shift first so that

847
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 1: I could function. So I guess my advice is all

848
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: first time moms should attend the class on surviving the

849
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: postpartum period. Don't be afraid to ask and connect and

850
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: other parts of the world. There are very strict rituals

851
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 1: around protecting a postpartum woman, even to the extent of

852
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: a woman is not allowed to leave her bed for

853
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: a few weeks. She just lies there in the community

854
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: or the village, brings her food and takes care of

855
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: the child and does her washing. Here we're like making

856
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: bloody cups of tea for visitors and snacks, you know

857
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: what I mean. I remember I've said that. Oh I

858
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: don't even know I'm going to out him right now,

859
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: but I remember after I had Albi, like a week later,

860
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 1: Tony Goldwin was sitting on my couch for like three hours,

861
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: and I remember having an outer body experience of being like,

862
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: I think I'm out of my happening. I love Tony

863
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: so much. He's having the greatest are new with my husband.

864
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: I'm serving them beers were chill, and we're having a

865
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,919
Speaker 1: great time. I have no business sitting here for three

866
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: hours when I have not slept. My boobs are leaking.

867
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: I've never breastbed in public, let alone I'm doing this

868
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: right now in front of Hollywood Royalty. What am I

869
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 1: doing anyway, keep going. That's just I just wish we

870
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: could find a way to get moms during the postpartum

871
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: period more support, even if it's I remember my this

872
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: one couple who have become very differends of us. They

873
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 1: were they dropped food on our doorstep, Katie. This goes

874
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: to why I insist on dropping food moms homes. I

875
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: will never forget. I cannot fucking remember ship from that time,

876
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: and I remember the god damn dish she made. I

877
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: remember that it was on my doorstep. It was the

878
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: first good meal that I had, like one decision off

879
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: my plate that I had good handmade food in my fridge.

880
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: So if you see a mama that looks like she

881
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: is having a challenging time, or even you're not sure,

882
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: offer the help before you're asked, because women who are

883
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: struggling with postpartum depression, even asking for help, things have

884
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: to get real bad first. Also, a lot of my

885
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: friends at that time, most of my friends didn't have kids,

886
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: so they figured I was like having I was in

887
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: like baby bliss, and that's why I wasn't responding to anybody.

888
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: So they just let me be, which was the opposite

889
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: of what I needed because I was so isolated, so

890
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: just yet checking in food, as you were saying, Mary,

891
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: like normalizing tough times, Like it's not supposed to be.

892
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: It is just not easy. We're balancing the recovery of

893
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: our bodies, transition out, our psychological selfie is going through

894
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: class the needs of the newborn who can do absolutely

895
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: nothing for themselves. Um, it's such a tricky time. I

896
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: love that. I love it, Mary. I know, I know

897
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: I have to like take a seven hour nap after

898
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: this conversation. But Mary, when did you start to feel better?

899
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: Similar to Italia? I could almost immediately feel the difference.

900
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: And I think the feeling I would say that I

901
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: had was not that everything is better and life is

902
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: perfect now. It was more that I felt and I

903
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: said this before, but I felt like I could respond

904
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: to situations and not react to them. I was able

905
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 1: to have some more pauses when I felt strong thing,

906
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: strong emotions, I was able to sit with that for

907
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: a second. It gave me some breathing room. I want

908
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: to say, maybe if I'm getting down to like the

909
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: rural logistics, in the first two weeks, I started to

910
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: feel the hint of wow, I might see why people

911
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: have kids. I think, might I might start to feel

912
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: and I say, that's funny, but it's actually it took

913
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 1: me that long to really start to understand that this

914
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: could be good. But this wasn't something bad that was

915
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 1: happening to me. And it sounds it makes me feel

916
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: really teary thinking about it, because if I think about

917
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: my daughter and not like how her whole life has changed, mind,

918
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: it's it breaks my heart that I was in that

919
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: place for that long. But there was something positive there too,

920
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: but I would stay. Within the first two months, I

921
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: was really able to get into a group where I

922
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: wasn't having a panic attack every day. I felt more capable.

923
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: I think the word I would say and maybe Tally,

924
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: did you feel like this, You felt a little more confident,

925
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: like you could face the day like That's how I felt.

926
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,399
Speaker 1: I felt like I could actually face the day and

927
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: do it and not feel terrified about it. I think

928
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: I felt terrified. I think up until she was about one,

929
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: I had so little confidence. I remember going to my

930
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: I signed up for a mummy and Me group, which

931
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: changed my life. And and that's the other thing. People

932
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: community community child rearing. Women have to be around other

933
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: women going through the same stuff you have to, you know,

934
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: Daniel Stern says, it's not a luxury, it's a necessity.

935
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 1: I remember going to Mommy and Me group and sitting

936
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: there for the first class and looking around at the

937
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: women all mostly looking like they were wearing makeup and

938
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 1: their hair was done and they were dressed nicely, and

939
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking, what the funk is wrong with me?

940
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 1: I'm so frightened. And then as I got to know

941
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: all the women who have all become very dear friends

942
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: of mine, I'm like, oh, we were all a ship show.

943
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: We just it took us some time to be able

944
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: to let each other in on that, like who's having

945
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: sex with their husband? Not me? Yeah, not me? You know,

946
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: it's so good to have that bond and to create

947
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: that bond with other women going through these intense transitional time.

948
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: I agree. I don't mean to sound like I just

949
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: saigned confidence in two months. It took me up until

950
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: I would say around one as well. And that was

951
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: an interesting time period because my daughter started walking. She

952
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: became less of a baby and more of a toddler.

953
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: And I also found in being in therapy and but

954
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: being on zula, which is what I was on really

955
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: helped me to dig into the underpinnings of what was

956
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: where this was coming from. Parenting for me has been

957
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: the most incredible unraveling and rebuilding of myself that I

958
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: have ever. It's like a mirror. It gives you the

959
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: opportunity to see the good and the bad. Know where

960
00:57:56,840 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: your resources are nowhere everything from your ad the histie groups,

961
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: to who the side, who the local psychiatrists is, to

962
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: the specialty the pre and postpartum specialists for a therapist.

963
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: Having those resources so that you can share them with

964
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: other women and sharing your story so that it becomes

965
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,959
Speaker 1: something that we do talk about, that we do just share.

966
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: And it isn't this sort of did you know behind

967
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: closed doors with happening with blah blah blah, as much

968
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: as you're talking about dealing with mastitis or what diapers

969
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: do you like? Okay? Texting checking in with friends who

970
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: just had a baby. For me, whenever I send those texts,

971
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: I try to be super supportive and I try not

972
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: to ever be like, aren't you so blissed out right now?

973
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: I always text like, Hey, I just wanted to let

974
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: you know I'm checking in and I'm sending you so

975
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: much love. How are you doing? No pressure to rush

976
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: to respond. I know it's probably wild over there thinking

977
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: of you. Love you, Katie. I never try to put

978
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 1: in to my text how I think it should be

979
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: going for that it should be happier that it should

980
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: be sad. I try to use neutral vocabulary, but that's

981
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 1: just very loving and very supportive. Can I say one

982
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: more thing please? About texting people, I almost tend to

983
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: never ask about the baby, which sometimes I always ask

984
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: about the mom. Remember somebody told me that the baby

985
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: is the candy and the mom is the rapper, and

986
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: once you get the candy, you toss the rapper and

987
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: you just love the chocolate so much, and everybody remembers

988
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: about the rapper, and just knowing that having a mother,

989
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: know that you're asking about them, You're asking how they're doing,

990
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: how are they feeling, and also saying, God's really hard.

991
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: Do you hate your do you hate your partner right now?

992
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: Do not feel like yourself? Are you questioning everything you

993
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: ever did? Like everybody gets so focused on the baby

994
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 1: that we don't remember that there's a mom there. So

995
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say that I love that. Is

996
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: there any advice you would give now to women who

997
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: are either pregnant currently or women who have just had

998
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: a baby. Many women go on to have much milder

999
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: cases of postpartum or not even postpartum at all. So

1000
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: this is by no means to scare anybody. This is

1001
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: truly about informing because information enables empowerment and enables people

1002
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: to set themselves up for success women. Like we think

1003
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: about weddings, we often think and put a lot of

1004
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: focus on the weddings, but very little focus on the

1005
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 1: marriage itself. And so if you're pregnant, I would just say, like,

1006
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: start to think about the things that you need to

1007
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: help set you up for success postpartum. A lot of

1008
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: people don't have a ton of support, but there are resources.

1009
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: There are groups that you can attend to postpartum support.

1010
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: There are La Taycian groups that you can attend. Probably

1011
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: all of these aviazoome right now, but there are places

1012
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 1: that you can go to set yourself up um for

1013
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: some support. The practical things are having food, remembering how

1014
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: important sleep is, and figuring out with your partner how

1015
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: you're going to work on sleep. Because if you don't sleep,

1016
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: you you can't think and when you can't think things

1017
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 1: go hey while very quickly. That on a more you know,

1018
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: personal level is knowing not only that you aren't alone,

1019
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: but that you didn't do anything to cause this. You're

1020
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: not at fault, you didn't do something wrong, you aren't

1021
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: less than. Having this experience doesn't mean that you are

1022
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: not meant mother, or that you can't cut it, or

1023
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: that you failed, or there's some karmic relationship that did

1024
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: you did wrong and now it's coming back. This happens,

1025
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: It's happens a lot, and it's extremely treatable. You can

1026
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: work through it and you don't have to carry that

1027
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: feeling of suffering with you. I love that beautiful, And

1028
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: my advice would be I was gonna say, I I

1029
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: love both. I love that. And I also found it

1030
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: really helpful that I was really honest with people when

1031
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 1: I was in my darkest steps. People were reaching out

1032
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: to me, you know, at week eight or nine, being like, hey,

1033
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: do you think did you see that email? Yes, I

1034
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: was supposed to have a three month post maternity leave,

1035
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: but people were already starting to trickle in some more questions.

1036
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: And I found it very easy. And this is what

1037
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 1: I would say to other women, I would I was

1038
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: really honest. I would shoot a text back and say, hey,

1039
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: I got hit with really bad postpartum depression, so I'm

1040
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: just struggling right now. I'll let you know when I'm

1041
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,200
Speaker 1: feeling up to that. Or if a friend would check in,

1042
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 1: they would say like, hey, how are you doing, and

1043
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: I'd read back, actually, I'm not doing well at all,

1044
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: but thanks for checking in. Once it had sort of

1045
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 1: dawned on me that this was it and this is

1046
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: my authentic experience of what was happening to me. I

1047
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: just found it really helpful to be honest with people

1048
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: because the only things I received back was love and support.

1049
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: The judgment that I thought was coming never did. And

1050
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: my friends were all really like, thanks for being honest. Oh,

1051
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: that's why you haven't been able to get back to

1052
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 1: me or take your time, don't you know what I mean?

1053
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: Like it all of a sudden opened it up, and

1054
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: it has been really helpful. So I would say, as

1055
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: honest and authentic you can be, to be gentle with

1056
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 1: yourself would be my advice. So how I'm curious now

1057
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: that you guys are so far ahead of me in

1058
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: the postpart of depression experience. How Holly, do you continue

1059
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: to heal? Now? It's been a process, and I think

1060
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: it has gotten just so much easier the older that

1061
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 1: Miami has gotten, because she's just so fun to be around.

1062
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: And now that I'm at a place where I can

1063
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: even imagine having a second child, I think what would

1064
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: be different for me is that I see that it's

1065
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,160
Speaker 1: worth it. At the time, you just you're like, what

1066
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: did I do? This was the worst decision that I

1067
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: ever made. But now I can see that it was

1068
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: the best decision that I ever made. So that's certainly

1069
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 1: helped with me healing from that experience, is just seeing

1070
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: how good and how wonderful she is. Anybody listening who

1071
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 1: is having a tough time, I promise you that it

1072
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 1: gets good. It gets so good, and you just got

1073
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,919
Speaker 1: to ask for the help that you need and keep

1074
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: moving forward because on the other side, it's going to

1075
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: be so worth it, because these kids are just glorious,

1076
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: you know, even though they're also really challenged. And then

1077
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 1: I think a part of it is just understanding that

1078
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: I need to be a little kinder to myself, and

1079
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: also who am I trying to put on a show for?

1080
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 1: Who am I trying to be okay for being authentic

1081
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 1: in my experience and coming into this postpartum experience as

1082
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: a birth doler and as a somebody that studied natural medicine.

1083
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: This was absolutely not what I would have wanted for

1084
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: myself to go on medication, but it was the right

1085
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: thing for me to do because it would have affected

1086
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: my family and the fabric of our family in the

1087
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: future had I not received and asked for the help

1088
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: that I needed. Mary, what about you? How do you

1089
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: continue to heal yourself with passion? So I'm an advocate

1090
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: for therapy first and foremost think it's really important, and

1091
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: I know that's a privilege to be able to say

1092
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: that and to do that, to have the space and

1093
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: the resources to do that. But it's been incredibly important

1094
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: and helpful for me to have somebody to a professional

1095
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: that I can unpack all of the things that have

1096
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 1: come up because of this experience and continue to come

1097
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: up because of it. I do a lot of research

1098
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of reading. I have Google Alert set

1099
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 1: to particular topics, and I'm that I'm really interested in

1100
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: regarding maternal mental health, so I keep as up to

1101
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: date as I can. As I mentioned before, I have

1102
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: done training and maternal mental health in order to respond

1103
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: to or to basically see women if women are needing support,

1104
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:59,439
Speaker 1: and in doing that support helps me remember how hard

1105
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 1: it was and have compassion for myself because I see

1106
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: myself in all these women and trying to have a

1107
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 1: practice of of self compassion. It's very difficult and I'm

1108
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: still working on it, but there is a whole sect

1109
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: of mindfulness meditation, which is something I've practice that's around

1110
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: self compassion and compassion for others. The last thing I

1111
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: would say is, whenever I feel like I'm trying, I'm

1112
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: being really hard on myself or thinking about this experience,

1113
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: I think about how I would talk to my daughter

1114
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: about it, and what I would say to her and

1115
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: how I would connect with her about that. It's helpful

1116
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: sometimes to put yourself in the position of a child

1117
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: and to see if you could be as loving to

1118
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: yourself as you can be to your child. I'm going

1119
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: to be able to have these conversations with her about

1120
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: what happened, and she's going to be able to see

1121
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: that her mom loved her so much that she took

1122
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: care of herself so that she could take air of

1123
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: her I cannot thank you both enough for saving my life. Truly,

1124
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,080
Speaker 1: I have not shown myself as dark as I was

1125
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: to anybody except my husband and to you too, So

1126
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 1: thank you with all my heart for being there for me.

1127
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on Katie's Crib, and thank you

1128
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 1: for sharing your stories and your advice and your experiences.

1129
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: And I really hope we've helped people today. Thank you Paulia,

1130
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 1: Thank you Katie, and thank you for letting us in.

1131
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: Thank you Mary for having on here. You guys, thank

1132
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to this episode. It means

1133
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 1: so much to me. What do you guys want to

1134
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: talk about upcoming? Uh? What do you guys want? What

1135
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: should we talk about? Who should we have on? You know?

1136
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: You can always reach me via email at Katie's Crib

1137
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: at john Land dot com. H Katie's Grim is a

1138
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio.

1139
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Shanda land Audio, visit the iHeart

1140
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1141
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: favorite ships. You've never known until you try Ride