1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,320
Speaker 1: Hey, man, do you remember, uh, not too long ago,

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: but chugging when we learned the concept of boofy.

3
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,400
Speaker 2: Sorry, now I'm thinking of that story about the frat

4
00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,440
Speaker 2: guys that had to like get up and do a

5
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,160
Speaker 2: press commerce with their lawyers or they talked about the

6
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 2: practice of butt hugging and the lawyer said it multiple.

7
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 3: Times, yes, yes, yes, yes, and the kids, the kids

8
00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,280
Speaker 3: acted in this thing that they have called butt chugging.

9
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 2: Pause before he paused time really popped it, yeah, denying

10
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 2: it on the behalf of his clients. But this is

11
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,480
Speaker 2: not something that frat boys invented. In fact, it's it's

12
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 2: dates back much much further than that into antiquity. Uh.

13
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,480
Speaker 2: The ancient Mayans, in fact, were big fans of squirting

14
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 2: alcohol up their uh their butts.

15
00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, not to put too fine a cheek on it,

16
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 1: but uh, it's weird.

17
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 2: Because we were.

18
00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 1: Writing the description for this episode back in twenty eighteen,

19
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 1: I remember thinking, all right, we have to set out

20
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: at the beginning that civilizations throughout Mesoamerica have vast and

21
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 1: rich history far before Europeans were messing with them. A

22
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,399
Speaker 1: lot of complex spiritual beliefs, ceremonies, a lot of stuff right,

23
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: very old, very storied civilizations.

24
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:23,759
Speaker 2: And you're right.

25
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: One of the common practices in ancient Maya culture in particular,

26
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 1: was a ritual involving alcohol enemas.

27
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,480
Speaker 2: Let's check it out, y'all, let's chuck it out, Oh boy.

28
00:01:40,880 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. A tiny bit

29
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 1: of trivia to begin today's episode, Friends and neighbors, fellow

30
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. Once upon a time, I Ben Bollen lived

31
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: in Guatemala.

32
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 2: Ben, you always play your tales of adventure in Guatemala

33
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,959
Speaker 2: very close to the vest I'm hoping today that will change.

34
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 2: My name is Nol, and this is ridiculous History. Why

35
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 2: are we talking about Guatemala? Ben?

36
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,919
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked, Nol. We're talking about Guatemala

37
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,920
Speaker 1: today because it leads us into a very strange topic,

38
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,919
Speaker 1: one that we think that you might rightly call ridiculous.

39
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 1: Our super producer Casey Pegram certainly did off air earlier.

40
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: He chuckled, yeah, which we took as very high praise.

41
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 1: So when I was living in Guatemala, one of the

42
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:08,560
Speaker 1: things that constantly astounded me was the wealth of ancient

43
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,919
Speaker 1: culture there, especially as you go up into the northern

44
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,399
Speaker 1: part of the country Patan. Then you will see all

45
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: these amazing ruins that have stood the test of time

46
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 1: pretty well and are currently protected by the government, which

47
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,919
Speaker 1: is a good thing. And it inspired in me this

48
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,920
Speaker 1: interest in Mayan culture, meso American culture, but Maya in particular.

49
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,760
Speaker 1: And the reason I was so inspired by this is

50
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: because I was living in a town called Jela ke

51
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: Taltenango and there's still a lot of my influence there.

52
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: I remember learning Spanish well enough to get by in

53
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,920
Speaker 1: the day, and then people would switch to Kicha, the

54
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 1: other language they spoke.

55
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 2: I did not know that that was a thing until

56
00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 2: we started researching this topic today. Should we let the

57
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 2: cat of the bag.

58
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 1: We can let it roll around just the second more

59
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,000
Speaker 1: because I want to make sure people know that we

60
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 1: are being respectful with this. It's a very different thing

61
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 1: for both of us. Okay, Ben, you're really doubling down

62
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 1: on this. It's just I think it's just one sentence

63
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 1: we needed to say it. There is such a wealth

64
00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,120
Speaker 1: of cultural practice, a lot of which might seem strange

65
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 1: to many of us in the modern day, and recently

66
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 1: knowl with the help of our pow Christopher hasiotis we

67
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: discovered a ritual that we had never heard of, right,

68
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 1: I mean you hadn't heard of this in this context.

69
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 2: I had not heard of it in this context. What

70
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 2: I would like you to do, Ben, is give me

71
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 2: a list of three, because, as we decided, a list

72
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,360
Speaker 2: must be three minimum. Well that's the bare bones. The

73
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,839
Speaker 2: barrier of entry to a list there we go is three.

74
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 2: So give me three cultural oddities that you found in

75
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,560
Speaker 2: your time in Guatemala, ending with the one that is

76
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 2: today's episode that you only found out about just recently.

77
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, I'll play these reindeer games. So one people

78
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,479
Speaker 1: wouldn't snap their fingers the way that you and I do.

79
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 2: Like that.

80
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 1: What you do is, and imagine this with us listeners,

81
00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 1: you take your thumb and your middle finger and you

82
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,520
Speaker 1: put them together so the fingertips touch, and then you

83
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: shake your hand. I can do it with my left hand,

84
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,720
Speaker 1: and you make a snapping noise.

85
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 2: It's tough.

86
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,239
Speaker 1: You make a snapping noise with your pointer finger against

87
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: your middle finger.

88
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 2: That sounds like that would wear out your wrist.

89
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. I still never quite mastered the trick too.

90
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 1: And this is one of my favorite things all those

91
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 1: old bluebird school buses that you know, fairy kids back

92
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 1: and forth to school in the States. When they are retired,

93
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 1: they move outside of the United States down south and

94
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,719
Speaker 1: they become what are known as chicken busses, and they're

95
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,120
Speaker 1: a mode of transit. If you get a second look

96
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 1: them up on Google. They're amazing. You would love these

97
00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: in particular and all they have a lot of psychedelic colors.

98
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 1: There are these amazing mods and the drivers will take

99
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 1: these things anywhere around Volcano.

100
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,560
Speaker 2: It was sort of like a crazy, grateful dead bus.

101
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: And of course number three NL that we just found

102
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,880
Speaker 1: out about, I'm gonna give the honor.

103
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 2: To you, my friend. Yeah, I don't know. This is

104
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 2: sort of a hollow setup that I have been envisioned,

105
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,240
Speaker 2: but I mainly just wanted to hear some of the

106
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 2: trivia that you had from your time. Then we'll get

107
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 2: into more of that. The third one in the topic

108
00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,480
Speaker 2: of the day's episode is that back in the days

109
00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 2: of these Mesoamerican indigenous tribes, the Maya, the Inca of

110
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 2: the Aztec, the tull Tech, the Olmec. We'll get into

111
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 2: more of those, there was a pretty heavy focus on

112
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 2: getting utterly smashed on everything from fermented plants to psychedelic mushrooms,

113
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 2: all in the service of opening up your mind to

114
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 2: the spirit world in kind of a shamanistic way. Yeah.

115
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,240
Speaker 2: But the one that we didn't really know about this

116
00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: is all kind of on the nose, is that they

117
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:04,159
Speaker 2: did this thing where they gave themselves and potentially each

118
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,360
Speaker 2: other ritualistic alcohol anemas.

119
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: That is true. We will restate this so that you

120
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: know you are not mishearing this thing. It's not a

121
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:19,280
Speaker 1: Freudian slip of your ear. Ritual alcohol animals, ritualistic alcohol anemas.

122
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: Because you see, when you are exploring the material crafts

123
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 1: left behind by the civilization, you will see a lot

124
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: of depictions on the pottery right or on the walls

125
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 1: of people doing various things, stories from the mythology of

126
00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 1: the time, as well as daily life commemorations of the

127
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: lives of noted figures glyphs, right, yeah, glyphs. And you'll

128
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 1: also see a ton of what are definitively believed to

129
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 1: be anima scenes like you just described nol and they're

130
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 1: on the Mayan pottery. Experts agree that these undoubtedly re

131
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,760
Speaker 1: present like these are not metaphors they undoubtedly represent a

132
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,360
Speaker 1: literal activity, and for a while this was controversial because

133
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,280
Speaker 1: it's sort of it's sort of undermined the image that

134
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people had of the minds as a

135
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: very contemplative, philosophical people. Stoic, Yeah, even stoic. They couldn't

136
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: they couldn't quite square that with the idea of indulging

137
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: in ritual acts of ecstasy. There were also displays of

138
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,240
Speaker 1: characters vomiting.

139
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,800
Speaker 2: That's right been In an article called Blood Water, Vomit

140
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 2: and Wine, author Lucia Henderson discusses the importance of these

141
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 2: various fermented drinks that were used in some of these ceremonies,

142
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 2: one of them being something called polkway.

143
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,319
Speaker 1: Yes, polk way, and you can find this article online

144
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,240
Speaker 1: in the meso American Voices Journal. Polkway is an alcoholic

145
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,720
Speaker 1: beverage that is made by fermenting the sap of agave plant,

146
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 1: specifically a magwa not magway, be careful, not a Gremlins reference,

147
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,599
Speaker 1: m a g u e y. And you may be

148
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 1: familiar with a gave being used in other alcoholic beverages

149
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,240
Speaker 1: right even in the modern day, So we know that

150
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,440
Speaker 1: this was widespread in many different forms it's almost more

151
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 1: of an umbrella term at times. But Noel, could you

152
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about polke and what it

153
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,000
Speaker 1: is and what's in it? I know honey is associated

154
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 1: with it.

155
00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so polk. It was actually also called achtli in Nahuatl,

156
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,040
Speaker 2: which is the Aztec language. And it's, like you said,

157
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 2: made from the sap of this plant, but they actually

158
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,040
Speaker 2: have to cut into the heart of the plant, which

159
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 2: is the part that you I believe the word was magwa, Yeah, exactly.

160
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,559
Speaker 2: But the thing is it actually has pretty low alcohol content,

161
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 2: ranging from two to eight percent. According to an article Tequila,

162
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 2: Mezcal and Pulque by Suzanne Barbezot from Trip Savvy, it's

163
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 2: got a really good rundown of the differences because they

164
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,679
Speaker 2: are all made from agave. But the difference with polk

165
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 2: is that it's made from that heart, kind of like

166
00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,600
Speaker 2: a heart of palm or like an artichoke hart or something.

167
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,840
Speaker 2: But it's a pretty low alcohol content, So it kind

168
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 2: of makes sense maybe that in order to get wasted

169
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 2: on it enough to open your mind up to this

170
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: kind of other dimension, you might need to absorb it

171
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 2: a little quicker. That's right.

172
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,640
Speaker 1: The drink had its own goddess. It was very common

173
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,280
Speaker 1: in the culture. It featured in tales of Mesoamerican mythology.

174
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,040
Speaker 1: And as you said, no, it was drunk in moderation

175
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,200
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. But for these important religious festivals,

176
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, weddings, fertility rites, ceremonies of that nature, it

177
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: has served in more copious amounts. And to really get

178
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:02,240
Speaker 1: the bang for their buck, they administered it directly directly.

179
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,080
Speaker 1: And we're you know, we're adults. We can say directly

180
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,200
Speaker 1: without giggling.

181
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,679
Speaker 2: I mean, we can at least make a game out

182
00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,040
Speaker 2: of not giggling and looking each other directly in the eyes.

183
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: What we say directly. I'm good, I'm golden, good, great, great,

184
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:16,960
Speaker 1: how are you?

185
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 2: I'm great. Let's go on.

186
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 1: Let's move on with So how did they administer this?

187
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,720
Speaker 2: You talked about finding those artifacts, right, the clay potts

188
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,839
Speaker 2: and all of that. Another type of artifact that they found,

189
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,680
Speaker 2: and a lot of this is coming from a study,

190
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,679
Speaker 2: by the way, from the journal Neurologia called Hallucinogenic Drugs

191
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 2: and Pre Columbian meso American Cultures by FJ. Coro ar

192
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,320
Speaker 2: Tall and one of the bits of evidence outside of

193
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 2: the depictions of these ritual enemas on these pieces of

194
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 2: pottery were the actual implements used to shoot that stuff

195
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,440
Speaker 2: up there. They were syringes. This stuff was administered with

196
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,960
Speaker 2: syringes made from gourds and clay. And if you look

197
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,240
Speaker 2: at one of the figures in the study, there is

198
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 2: a depiction of one of these mind ritual enemas, and

199
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 2: it's a gentleman laying what do you call it, legs

200
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,560
Speaker 2: of kimbo I guess, sort of reclining and displayed there

201
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 2: you go. And then you got a priest or some

202
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 2: kind of He seems to be wearing a different garb

203
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 2: and he is reaching down at him with this thing

204
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 2: that looks kind of like a loot, but it's actually

205
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: clearly a gourd, and it's got you know, the big

206
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,679
Speaker 2: bull at the bottom was obviously full of polka or.

207
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: Any of the other similar related.

208
00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 2: Beverages exactly of the of the region. And it looks

209
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 2: like he's getting ready to to give give give him

210
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 2: a good squirt.

211
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah he's gonna have a rager, right.

212
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 2: Well, apparently so, and we we need to backtrack just

213
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 2: to touch We sort of started the episode off by

214
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,080
Speaker 2: saying that a lot of this was done in service

215
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 2: of getting into a trance like state, because the purpose

216
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,679
Speaker 2: was to achieve in enlighten We talked about this cultures

217
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 2: as being these meso American cultures are being perceived as

218
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 2: more stoic, and this doesn't necessarily entirely fly in the

219
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 2: face of that, because they're not doing this just around

220
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 2: their daily going is on. This is all in these

221
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 2: We call it ritualistic for a reason. It was to

222
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 2: open up their minds to achieve this enlightenment, get into

223
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,600
Speaker 2: a state of ecstasy and almost like an inner peace,

224
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:31,080
Speaker 2: and to potentially achieve hallucinations in sort of a vision

225
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 2: questy way and being able to commune with the gods.

226
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the idea. It's removing some of the barriers

227
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,560
Speaker 1: of perception that would exist in normal day to day life.

228
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:48,440
Speaker 1: So what we're emphasizing here is that when people were

229
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,959
Speaker 1: doing it, it wasn't to just party party without some

230
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 1: sort of larger plan here. We also, in addition to

231
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,560
Speaker 1: the tools the implements that you mentioned, all the gords

232
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 1: and syringes, we also found these thin hollow bones. We

233
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: know that there was a practice in some similar cultures

234
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,040
Speaker 1: where shamans would use a deer bladder and maybe a

235
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,920
Speaker 1: hollowed out femur bone to pump a substance through the

236
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 1: rectum into the body. And there were some although you

237
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,360
Speaker 1: know this thing is rife for some crass humor, there

238
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: were some definite medical advantages. It doesn't touch your stomach.

239
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't touch your stomach, and it doesn't touch your liver. Yes,

240
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 1: and the anus is full of very sensitive vascular tissue

241
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:49,080
Speaker 1: that is highly highly absorptive. Yeah. Yeah, And since there's

242
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 1: another point with the liver thing, that's really important and

243
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up. The liver would

244
00:14:54,480 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 1: break down hallucinogenic elements. So administering these substances this way,

245
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: to your point, gives you much more bang for your

246
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: buck anebriation or hallucination wise.

247
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's true. And I wonder if the location

248
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 2: of injection was less important than just the fact that

249
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 2: it was a more efficient way of achieving that state,

250
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 2: especially with alcohol that was relatively lower in potency. We

251
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:32,080
Speaker 2: actually skipped the earliest form of this of intoxicating liquors

252
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 2: that they use. It was something called bal ja that's

253
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 2: made by infusing the bark, some sort of broken down

254
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,160
Speaker 2: version of the bark from a tree called the longcocarpus

255
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 2: longest stylus, and then they mix that with honey, this

256
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 2: particular kind of honey that's made by bees that have

257
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,760
Speaker 2: fed on a morning glory derivative that is very high

258
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 2: in something called ergine, which is very closely related to

259
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:05,560
Speaker 2: little something called lsd our guide is lysergic acid amide,

260
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 2: and it also can be lysergic acid lysergamide. So I

261
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,640
Speaker 2: think it's a very close molecular connection between that and

262
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,560
Speaker 2: lysergic acid diethylamide, which is the mass that we know

263
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 2: about from the you know, from the grateful dead buses

264
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 2: earlier in the.

265
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: Is or from fish earlier in Vermont.

266
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 2: It's true. But here's the thing. They would, you know,

267
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,720
Speaker 2: a lot of times when they were doing these ritual enemas,

268
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 2: they would add other psychedelic substances, psychotropic substances and mix

269
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 2: them into kind of a cocktail. And then that's how

270
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 2: they would achieve the heights of openness.

271
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: Tobacco, for instance, water lilies, those all went in there.

272
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 1: And you know the thing about pulk specifically is that

273
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,560
Speaker 1: it had an extremely short shelf life, so these other

274
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,560
Speaker 1: alternatives could exist concurrently, but they were when we talked

275
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: about these ritual enemas. Whatever the substance was and whatever

276
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,920
Speaker 1: the specific cocktail mix was, it had the same goal,

277
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: which was again to achieve this enlightenment. And I don't

278
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 1: know about you, Nol, but I was startled by how

279
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,199
Speaker 1: much research had been conducted on this. You know, it

280
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 1: hit me when I was thinking back on search history

281
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: and whatever Big Brother would see us looking through that

282
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,199
Speaker 1: for some time, my search history will be riddled with

283
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: things like Brian Strauss and Justin Carer's nineteen ninety article

284
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: notes on the Mayan vision quest by enema, and then

285
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 1: of course blood water, vomit, and wine. We found a

286
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,719
Speaker 1: comprehensive breakdown to your point about the specific ingredients in

287
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 1: these enemas. We found a comprehensive breakdown of it by

288
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: a guy named Peter agm De smet ritual enemas and

289
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 1: snuffs in the America.

290
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 2: Snuffs being things you would insulfate like cocaine, for example,

291
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 2: or any number of powders that could be ground down

292
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 2: from plant matter, and rather than ingesting it orally, you

293
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 2: sniff it up your nose.

294
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And you know what I'd like to make

295
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 1: insulfate our word of the day.

296
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 2: It's a peewee thing. Did do we mention the fact

297
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 2: that this has been going on as far back as

298
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 2: twelve hundred to four hundred BCE with the Olmec people.

299
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 1: We have not, And it's important that we do, because

300
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 1: we mentioned the phrase polke and the phrase mague being

301
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,919
Speaker 1: in bulk and bulke being thrown around, but we didn't

302
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: mention the actual earliest instances of this practice. And I

303
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 1: believe you are I believe you are correct.

304
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,640
Speaker 2: So it is the old mac. Here's a good detail too,

305
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: because the alcohol content and these substances were so low,

306
00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 2: they would inject them rectally and it would often they

307
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 2: would get so intoxicated that they would vomit. And there

308
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 2: was part of the ritual, particular ritual, where their vomit

309
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 2: would be collected in bags that would then be hung

310
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 2: around their necks.

311
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 1: And this was a way also of publicly displaying your

312
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 1: completion of or participation in this ritual. And in the

313
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,199
Speaker 1: article that straws and care work done, they gave us

314
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of background as far as the transportation

315
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: of this stuff goes. Here's a quotation the anema substance

316
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: they say may have been transported in liquid form. Given

317
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: the large size of these jars. They had specific enema jars, right,

318
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: you can see those, and those are things that bear

319
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 1: a lot of these decoration exact cliffs, so they continue.

320
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: It's difficult to think of why this would be the

321
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 1: case unless some of the ingredients included fermentation based alcohol.

322
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: It's conceivable the heavy jar was transported empty of liquid

323
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: and the material were mixed with liquid on the spot.

324
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: But unless a large quantity was used at a time,

325
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: the reason for carrying such a jar is rather a mystery.

326
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 1: I love when people use rather that way. I'm gonna

327
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: start bringing that back. Oh you should do you have

328
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: my back on that one?

329
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 2: I have your back on everything, Ben, thanks man.

330
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: Likewise, so we know that they had these specific jars,

331
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: we know the things that were decorated on them, and

332
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: we know that they had specific recurring characters, which I

333
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: think is so cool. I'm just a big world building

334
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 1: nerd in that regard.

335
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: And when we talk about characters too, they actually had

336
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: these terra cotta figures that demonstrated the proper procedure for

337
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of another way of saying administering

338
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 2: these butt fluids.

339
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,919
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so we see some common themes. Noel, you

340
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: described the priest administering something to a supplicant or the receiver.

341
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess priest is maybe too broad a term,

342
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 2: something of a shaman who is trying to guide this process.

343
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. What were these rituals about. They

344
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: were often things like about healing rituals where and I

345
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: just want to point out too that it was most

346
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: important for the leader of these rituals, the shaman, to

347
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 2: be as open as possible to this spirit, realm or

348
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 2: they have you. But he would also administer to the supplicants,

349
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: you know, the participants in the ritual you mentioned earlier.

350
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 2: I think marriage rituals, we're talking about fertility rights, I

351
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 2: think you said. And the healing wherein someone maybe was

352
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: ill or dying and did in some way and this

353
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 2: would be a way to exercise that in some way

354
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: and hopefully to promote healing, even though there's no real

355
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: medical efficacy here.

356
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a second.

357
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 4: Two.

358
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: We can see some of these rituals where we can

359
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 1: glean some of the purposes behind them by again looking

360
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: at the glyphs, the decorations in the art surrounding these

361
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: jars because they have these recurring participants. There's water lily Jaguar.

362
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: This is a character who's frequently seen in Nima jug

363
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: scenes for the Anima ritual. He has a turbin bib.

364
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: You'll see him involved in enemas that are associated with

365
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: sacrificial rights. Interesting you'll see other characters like spider Monkey,

366
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: who is also common in Anema jug scenes. And then

367
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: you'll see things like drug bird. That's the name. Drug

368
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: Bird is distinguished by a beak with the fat outturned end.

369
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like any real bird, but it's present

370
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: in at least four Anima scenes that are on these jugs.

371
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: You have other characters like big lipped frogs and often

372
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: holding a water lily or something that would be representative

373
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: of ingredients in a particular type of cocktail.

374
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: And then when we start getting into some of the

375
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 2: other substances they would imbibe, like psychedelic mushrooms. They even

376
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 2: had a the Mixtech people had a god called seven

377
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 2: Flowers who is shown holding two mushrooms in each of

378
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: his hands. But you know who didn't like.

379
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,880
Speaker 1: This behavior, Ben oh gosh Tell me, who on earth

380
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: would have a problem with this.

381
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: It was the priests, the Catholic prief. Yeah, the first one,

382
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 2: Diego de Landa. He gave this account of experiencing some

383
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: of this stuff. He said, the Indians consumed which always

384
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 2: think it's funny because these are the use of Indian

385
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: to refer to Mayan people and Aztec people. Right, it's

386
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 2: kind of a it's kind of a misnomer, isn't it.

387
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's lazy naming. The idea was, uh,

388
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, the the name comes from this kakamamie idea

389
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: that they had landed in the Indian continent.

390
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: Oh, speaking of witch, you just posted a really great

391
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: uh Mitchell and Webb look sketch on the Ridiculous History's

392
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: Facebook page that addresses that very thing. But anyway, here's

393
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 2: the quote from Diego. He says, the Indians consumed alcohol

394
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: and drugs and immense quantities, which gave rise to many evils,

395
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: including murders. They made wine from honey water and the

396
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 2: root of a certain tree. This is describing that bulk

397
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 2: that they grew just for that purpose. The wine had

398
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: a very strong flavor and a putrid odor, not a

399
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: fan of these rituals. And then, of course you know

400
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: their goal was to turn them all into good to

401
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: good Catholics anyway, So any of these what they would

402
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 2: have seen as barbaric kind of rituals probably rubbed them

403
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: the wrong way, with or without the booze.

404
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's not forget this idea of proselytization. On

405
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: their end was entirely by hook or by crook. The

406
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: ends justify the means. So we could imagine a bit

407
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: we can speculate on how the Spanish forces would have

408
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 1: reacted to this. Now, the idea of an enema in

409
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: in general would not have been completely foreign to them.

410
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: It is, as they say in The Beauty and the Beast,

411
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: a tale as old as time, right.

412
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: And I mean, you know, animas are good for like

413
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: one thing, which is uh.

414
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, enemas. Over the span of human civilizations, here's a

415
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: sentence I didn't think I would say today. Over the

416
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 1: span of human civilization, animas have been used for numerous

417
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: real or purported medical benefits. They've been used for a

418
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 1: bowel management. They've also been used, you know, to relieve constantpation.

419
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: That's the one, Yeah, that's the one that I think

420
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: is actually accurate that it can help you with well.

421
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: They can also be used to administer other substances directly

422
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: into the bloodstream.

423
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 2: Of course, right as we know from our pals the minds.

424
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: Right, or you know from your local veterinarian, they may

425
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: recommend that you give someone a suppository or a pet

426
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: a subpository.

427
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: I guess, so, I guess I think of those as

428
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: being sort of two different sides of the same butt coin.

429
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Because enemas would be liquid, they don't have to be

430
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: there's smoke inemas.

431
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: That's very true, Ben, you are really opening my third eye.

432
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: Oh boy.

433
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: Yes, we are a family show here. One thing that

434
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: was very interesting to both of us when we started

435
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: exploring this stuff is that there is an entire culture,

436
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: so multiple cultures associated with again the real or perceived

437
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: effects of enemas in a palliative or medical sense.

438
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and if you want to deep dive into this,

439
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: I highly recommend checking out our sister podcast Stuff you

440
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: Missed History Classes episode on a fellow by the name

441
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: of John Harvey Kellogg. But let's give you the broad strokes.

442
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Harvey Kellogg was nowadays best known as a

443
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: serial visionary, right he made Kellogg cornflakes.

444
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 2: A serial visionary like he may had many visions in

445
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: success in quick succession. I hope so, Yeah, I hope so.

446
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: But he also, you know, came up with what's today

447
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: still a very popular breakfast item, Yeah, the corn flake.

448
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: And in his non cereal tycoon life, he had very

449
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: particular and nowadays very strange seeming medical beliefs. Cereal was

450
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: a side effect of I guess an added value right

451
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: to his primary goal, which was improving people's health and

452
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: stopping them from masturbating. Yes, just like the Graham Cracker inventor. Yeah,

453
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: he saw masturbation as a moral danger and a medical problem.

454
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: He was a Seventh Day Adventist and a staunch vegetarian

455
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: and health nut.

456
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a huge proponent of enemas you can read.

457
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: You could read a great article about this on the

458
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: Washington Post by Rebeccah Fowler. This is one of my

459
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: favorite titles, although all the authors were citing here and

460
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: knocking it out with the titles today, an Enema of

461
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: the People NOL.

462
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: That was what Harvey Kellogg was after, just and that

463
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 2: a Blink one eighty two album. It's an enema of

464
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: the state of the state. And that's been Casey on

465
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 2: the case.

466
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: And Kellogg himself practiced what he preached. He preached the

467
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: health benefits of enemas. He also administered multiple enemas a

468
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: day to himself.

469
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: Sure, like you do, like you do.

470
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: And the more you dive into this, and yeah, we

471
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: do recommend the myst and History class episode. The more

472
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: you dive into it, the more we see that while

473
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: he had these very hardline health health based principles like

474
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: no smoking, for instance, he really really really doubled down

475
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: on enemas. Yogurt enemas.

476
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: That was a big thing.

477
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: This is messy. It seems like, you know what, never

478
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: tried it, but it does seem really messy.

479
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll take my yogurt orally, thank you very much.

480
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. A lot of this was kind

481
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: of considered to the now when we look at it

482
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: through the lens of science, of modern science, to be

483
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: kind of quackery or at least I don't know what

484
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: do you call it when you've got kind of a pseudoscience, right,

485
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: but it persists to this day. Right, there are people

486
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 2: who swear up and down that coffee enemas are the thing, right, right,

487
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: And speaking of things you never thought you'd read in

488
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: your web browser for a work related adventure, I found

489
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: an article called Anema history in the Mind culture that

490
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: was sort of a travelogue of a gentleman who visited

491
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: some of these areas with these ruins to investigate the

492
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: history of what we've been talking about today. And it

493
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: starts thus in twenty ten, I visited Guatemala in order

494
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: to responsibly cultivate my relationship with the fairly traded and

495
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: coffee that I sell for my colon cleansed clients to

496
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 2: use for their coffee enemas at home. And then there's

497
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: a very helpful link to his fairly traded Anima coffee.

498
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: And it's very it's it's it's certified organic, it's low acidity,

499
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: it's air roasted, and it's hiring caffeine and palmitic acid,

500
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: and of course fairly traded. But this gentleman just is

501
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: a real proponent of this remedy and it's it's a thing.

502
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: It's kind of a picking up steam a little bit.

503
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: And this particular type of a cleanse is part of

504
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: something called the Gerson therapy that was developed in the

505
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: nineteen thirties. But the FDA has consistently come out against

506
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: cleanses of any kind, saying that the science just isn't there,

507
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: and then enemas are really only good for that one

508
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: thing we talked about earlier, which was you know, curing

509
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: constipation as as God intended, or you know, for shooting

510
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: alcohol up your butt and making you incredibly intoxicated so

511
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: you can you know, talk to the spirits.

512
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: Or in some cases medicine to help you. That would happen, right.

513
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: Also true, I still think that's different. That's just a

514
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: rectal administration of you know what that's you know, alcohol

515
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: is not like it's not water. You're shooting it up

516
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: there just to get the effects of it. It's not

517
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: like you're not using it as a cleanse.

518
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know. The thing that I think fascinates

519
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: both of us is not just how widespread this practice

520
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: has been, but the fact that it continues today. Unlike

521
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: several other traditional practices in Mesoamerica, this practice survived colonialism

522
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: and some tribes still practice it.

523
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: It's true.

524
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: And additionally here even we record in the United States,

525
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: as you know, a long time listeners here, it is

526
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: also a popular thing, but under a different name.

527
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: Man, do we get to say it now?

528
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: Yes, you have waited long enough.

529
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: But jugging, you say it, you say it right.

530
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it in a in a posh British voice,

531
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: but chugging.

532
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 5: But no, And that just sounds like you're saying, but

533
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 5: chugging is not good for you. You should drink more

534
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 5: gentlemanly like and slower at a rit a medium pace.

535
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 5: I need you to say, but chugging.

536
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 6: I feel like that's your voice.

537
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: How about Okay, you don't have to say it in

538
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: that voice. I just want you to really lean into it,

539
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: a rowdy bottom chug. Okay, that's good, that's fine, that's great.

540
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: You're talking about it a man. If you do, you

541
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: I'll do. Obviously am more excited about butt chugging than

542
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: you are, and that's fine. We're two different people. We

543
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: can have our own feels about things.

544
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: So butt chugging, essentially is is administering alcohol directly without

545
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: the purpose of pursuing some great spiritual revelation or epiphany.

546
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 2: It's recreational. Yeah, there was a there was a case

547
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 2: back in oh when was it? I was in fourteen, that'stent.

548
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: She was a little earlier than that twenty fourteen when

549
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: it was when the fallout kind of went down. It

550
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: was in twenty twelve where a fraternity at the University

551
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: of Tennessee, the Pi Kappa Alpha chapter, had got into

552
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 2: a little hot water when an underage student named Alexander P.

553
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: Broughton went to the hospital after a real rager, as

554
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: they say, with an alcohol blood alcohol level of point

555
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: four to oh, which is.

556
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: Five times the legal limit and in what doctors call

557
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 1: the death zone for alcohol was the zone.

558
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they examined him and decided that he had

559
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: been penetrated in some way. They said there was signs

560
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: of sexual assaults. And it came out that the investigators believed,

561
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: rather than him having been sexually assaulted in some way,

562
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: that he had this alcohol administered erectally right with a

563
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: length of hose. Yeah. Yeah.

564
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: And there's a misconception amongst many people, or there was

565
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: at the time, that inserting alcohol into any other orifice

566
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: would reduce the chances of vomiting from a hangover or

567
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: something like that.

568
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: Yes, seems off.

569
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: It's misinformed at the very least, and the experts have

570
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: labeled this activity extremely dangerous because think about it, you know,

571
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: if first off. If this is being done to someone

572
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: as another ritual, like a fraternity hazing ritual or something,

573
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, then safety is not prioritized near as much

574
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: as it should be.

575
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Man. Whenever I have you been to a

576
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: fraternity party before? Yeah, yeah, I've only been to one,

577
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: and it was well after I had graduated from college.

578
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 2: And I have to say I was shocked, Ben, I

579
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: was shocked. I mean, I just thought there was like

580
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: a like a very slight, twenty two to twenty three

581
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: year old girl in a devil costume walking around pounding

582
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: a handle, mind you, a vue all by herself, like

583
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: that was her beverage for the night. I was, you know,

584
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: I like a good, a stiff drink, sure as much

585
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: as the rest of them. But I was taken aback.

586
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: But here's the thing with the story about from ut. Yeah,

587
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: it turned out that it was very important to the

588
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: father of this young man and the fraternity and their

589
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: lawyers to make it very clear that no butt chugging

590
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: took place. In fact, there is a delightful clip you

591
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: can find. We're not going to play it here. You

592
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: can see that if you want, where their lawyer says

593
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: the phrase butt chugging no less than fifteen times in

594
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: this press conference, and it is is a hoot, he

595
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: claimed the boy that he was participating in a party

596
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 2: called the Tour of Franzia, because when they went back

597
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 2: to investigate the scene, they found like those wine box

598
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: bags if you open up the box of wine, sometimes

599
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: a space bag. They found the littered everywhere and a

600
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 2: lot of passed out fraternity brothers there. And the Tour

601
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: of Frenzias, I guess where you just drink bad white

602
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: zinfandel until you black out.

603
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: Sounds like a very niche audience. Here are a very

604
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: niche party. But despite the hilarious name of butt chugging,

605
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: the dangers and effects of this are very real.

606
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 4: Like you really owned it when you said at that time, Ben.

607
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: You know what's funny about this nol is we hope

608
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: everyone has enjoyed learning about these ritualistic practices that, maybe

609
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: with different aims, continue today in the modern world. But

610
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, man, I am I'm a little

611
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: at odds about how best to end this, because it's

612
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: lovely when we end on questions so we can hear

613
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: from you friends and neighbors. But I think we should

614
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: be careful what questions we ask on this one.

615
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: I think we should do it. I would like to

616
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: do a little PSA here and say, kids, don't put

617
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 2: alcohol in your butt. No, just don't do it. Don't

618
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: do it. Just don't do it. Don't do it. They're

619
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: not worth it.

620
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: There are better things you can do.

621
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 2: You can reach the spirit realm naturally.

622
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: You can meditate, exercise, yeah, you can climate tree, yeah,

623
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: climate tree. You know what, Go look at the stars.

624
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: They're beautiful this time of year, they're beautiful.

625
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: All the time. And on that note, oh no, you

626
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: know what it is.

627
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: It's been so long.

628
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 4: I didn't think it was ever going to happen again.

629
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: It's always going to happen.

630
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 6: It's time, gentlemen.

631
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland the quizt you've returned yet again to be

632
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: deevil Us with fact and.

633
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: Fiction, and you're in top wickedly gleeful form.

634
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 4: My friend, I mean my bitter enemy.

635
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 6: Yes, flattery, you will get your No.

636
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: So this is again there's a surprise to us, as

637
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 1: it always seems to be when we're about to end

638
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: the episode. This is the part of Ridiculous history where

639
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: in our long standing nemesis Jonathan Strickland. The quister returns

640
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: to give us a fact, and Nolan and I must

641
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: determine whether it is true or it is false.

642
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: We have three.

643
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: Minutes, yes, and that that timer on this gigantic grandfather

644
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: clock behind us does not start until after you have

645
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: stated the plane.

646
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: It's more of a great grandfather clock, isn't it.

647
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 6: And we should point out that I also always give

648
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 6: you an arbitrary rule you must follow, yes every time.

649
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 6: This time, because we are talking about alcohol, I got

650
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 6: your nice, a nice adult beverage. So before any question

651
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 6: you must pop that open, take us wig and then

652
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 6: say I got I got one for you Quist.

653
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: And just to you, have you had a few? You

654
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 2: sound a little define a few?

655
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: The word the euphemism I've always liked to use is charming.

656
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: No I think Noel saying you sound a bit.

657
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,320
Speaker 2: Charming, no Quist is nothing if not charming.

658
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: That's true.

659
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 6: I'm so charming. The room is spinning right now.

660
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I hope that you administer this alcohol

661
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: orally well you know that is young.

662
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: It's fair sure, so we uh, we will have to

663
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: pop the first time we asked something, and then after

664
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: that just.

665
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 6: Sidright, assuming that you have to ask anything at all.

666
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 6: You may you may feel very confident to not have

667
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 6: to ask any questions.

668
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: And just to point out to the listeners at home,

669
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: it is approaching five, so I think it's it's perfectly.

670
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 6: Appropriated arms somewhere.

671
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 4: Indeed, all right, let's do this.

672
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: Sorry, I knock it out.

673
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 6: Here's your scenario, and guess what what, it's a long one.

674
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 6: Here we go.

675
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: Since nineteen sixty three, every.

676
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 6: Year on January fifteenth, in Nozawa, Onsen, Japan, there is

677
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 6: an interesting sake fueled ritual that pits villagers against each other,

678
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 6: all in the name of the Shinto religion. All men

679
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 6: who are either twenty five or forty two years old

680
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 6: are conscripted to guard a wooden shrine constructed just for

681
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 6: the event. The men are encouraged to drink sake, a

682
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 6: lot of it, like half a gallon of the stuff

683
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 6: of more. The purpose for drinking that much is to

684
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 6: imbue the young men with the courage to face what

685
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 6: comes next. That next thing is a priest endows the

686
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 6: shrine with a dosogin, or a protective travel spirit associated

687
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 6: with crossroads. The drunken twenty five and forty two year

688
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 6: olds must then defend the shrine against all the other

689
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 6: men of the village, who arm themselves with torchu is

690
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 6: an attempt to burn the shrine down. At least one

691
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 6: person has died from injury sustained in this yearly festival,

692
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 6: and many receive serious injuries. The whole ceremony originally was

693
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,479
Speaker 6: meant to encourage a good harvest. These days it's also

694
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 6: to wish for a profitable skiing season.

695
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 2: You need some water man begin, okay.

696
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: All right, I am officially starting the timer.

697
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 6: I get one for you, hemy mistard. All right?

698
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: So why are they only twenty five and forty two?

699
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: And they're not arranged?

700
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: Right?

701
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: It's not everyone twenty five to forty two, it's those

702
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: ages specific.

703
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 6: An excellent question. Many Japanese traditions are based in superstition

704
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 6: in the festival is no different with the twenty five

705
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 6: and forty two year old in the village chosen to

706
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 6: take on the special roles because those are the so

707
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 6: called unlucky ages for men.

708
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: Of course, he had an answer for him.

709
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: That's you know, that's almost suspicious. There we go, there

710
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: we go.

711
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 2: Why are you so horrible?

712
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 6: It just comes naturally, I guess.

713
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: That's fair, that's it. Yeah, I don't know, man, I

714
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: thought you were bringing the fire. I got no. He

715
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: puts out my fire. He extinguishes me like like one

716
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: of those torches. And this potentially untrue story.

717
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: So we're at two minutes. Hang on, they got one

718
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: for you, all right, hear me, mister, what is what?

719
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: What year did this originate?

720
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: In?

721
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: It again?

722
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: Eighteen sixty three?

723
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: Crypt uh damn it?

724
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 2: There you go?

725
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 6: All right? Yeah, what turning back up on him?

726
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: What is the uh?

727
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: What town is it in again?

728
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 6: It's it's in Nosala, just at the base of a

729
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 6: mountain range.

730
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 2: Oh what is this like some kind of generic just

731
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: just beer?

732
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 6: Yep, it just just store brand beer in a white

733
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 6: can with a word beer.

734
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: Honest, it's skunky. It's like a prop you'd see in

735
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 2: a movie.

736
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't at least bring natty like.

737
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 6: I honestly found it like in the basement. But go ahead.

738
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, man.

739
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: There's so many things like can't you just give us

740
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: a quick a to be kind of like scenario?

741
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 6: This was a quick one.

742
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: No, no, well we are.

743
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: At fifty seconds.

744
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: Okay, what the torches? The burning down? Why the men?

745
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 2: I think it's not true. It seems like Ben that

746
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: there's parts of this. I know there are rituals like

747
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: this that they do. There's like the Saki ceremonies where

748
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: they even like, you know, spit the fermented the rice

749
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: and the lily put they make their sake, spit the rice,

750
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: chew it up and spit it into a queue, and

751
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: then they cover it and bury it and then it's

752
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: like a whole thing. It was in a movie I saw.

753
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: I just feel because I'm such an optimistic person. I

754
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: feel burned every time I guess. And it's not you know, okay,

755
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: I just want to believe in stuff too much.

756
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I guess. I just feel like, what,

757
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 2: what are they risk burning down infrastructure?

758
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to go not true? Five four three, Okay,

759
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 1: we're gonna lock it. We didn't lock it in yet.

760
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: Stop licking at me that way, twister. That's our time.

761
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: He's given me a look. You know, you never know

762
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: with Okay, all right, we'll say it.

763
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: Then just do it. Not true, you poor idiots, you

764
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: poor idiots.

765
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 6: It's true, son of us, It is absolutely true. I

766
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 6: gave you this on a platter.

767
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: I did you say platter or platter.

768
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 3: Listen, I've had a few, all right. Listen, listen, listen,

769
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: man bowling listen. I had to make sure it was

770
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 3: good stuff that I brought you. Listen, all right.

771
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 6: So anyway, yeah, no, this is one of the three

772
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 6: big fire festivals of Japan. It's actually one of the

773
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 6: most famous. Has been covered with various news outlets NPR,

774
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 6: and I mean it was the internet is lousy with

775
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 6: information about this thing, and I thought for sure one

776
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 6: of you would have heard about it, since it's so

777
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 6: creat So.

778
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: I feel have you heard about the one with the

779
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: rice though? Where they spits that one?

780
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 6: So what is happening here is the dosojin is as

781
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 6: a Shinto spirit that is considered to be a kindly

782
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 6: spirit that helps travelers, and so the priests from the

783
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 6: nearby shrine supposedly imbuse this temporary shrine, this model of

784
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 6: a shrine that's been constructed over the course of a

785
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,240
Speaker 6: few days by about one hundred villagers with the spirit

786
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 6: of a dos Ojen. The whole purpose is to burn

787
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 6: it's it's it's almost like an offering, and so they

788
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 6: build a big bonfire out of various pieces of very

789
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 6: flammable stuff and lots of the tall dolls and things

790
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 6: that represent various elements of the culture. And then the

791
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 6: men of the village they light their torches. They are

792
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 6: supposed to eventually burn the thing down. I think that's

793
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 6: also one of the reasons why the defenders are encouraged

794
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 6: to get almost blackout drunk.

795
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 2: It seems dangerous with fire.

796
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's righting a guy died and lots of people

797
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: get day.

798
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: In my defense, in our defense, when you say shrine

799
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: and you're talking about like a village, I think I'm

800
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,959
Speaker 2: picturing like a building that's meant to stay there.

801
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 6: No, this was absolutely just constructed for the purpose at

802
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,280
Speaker 6: the festival.

803
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 2: That's what threw me. That's what for me.

804
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 1: And a lot of those buildings are created from wood

805
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: rather than still.

806
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: Yes, this one is like you risk burning down the

807
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 2: whole village though, Like, yeah.

808
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 6: The pictures of this, by the way, are phenomenal. It

809
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 6: happens January fifteenth every year. So if you guys, you know,

810
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 6: we don't want to do a ridiculous history on the road,

811
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 6: I'm just.

812
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 2: Saying extra credit January fifteenth, be there. Yeah, let's get

813
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: the bosses to pop for Japan tickets.

814
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, lend. Just for fun, let's find one of our

815
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: coworkers that is either forty two or twenty five and

816
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: not tell them what's going down to Waylan.

817
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 6: You know what age I am this year? Right, forty two?

818
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 6: I just missed it.

819
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: Well done? Yeah, well, I can't even be mad. That

820
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: was good.

821
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: I love learning new stuff nol. So, although Quister, I

822
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: do feel like you put a lot more work into

823
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: gloating about today than you did into doing the question,

824
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: I applaud you.

825
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 6: I gave you so many hints for one thing. Just

826
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 6: the last time I was on here, you mentioned that

827
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 6: when I do a really long one, it means it's fake.

828
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 6: I did another really long one just so that you

829
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 6: would know it was real, and you still chose.

830
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: To tell by the way you were looking at me.

831
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 2: Man, I should have flipped it. Should have. Yeah, But

832
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 2: we're a team. We are a team.

833
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: We're a team team. I don't want to do a

834
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 1: last minute flip. And we have your back. Folks, thank

835
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in, and Quister, thank you

836
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:57,959
Speaker 1: for coming on the show.

837
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 6: Enjoy your beer.

838
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: They thank you for the Thank you for the unlabeled.

839
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: Generic basement beer. Not to say swill.

840
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 1: Well, that's it for us today. However, if you would

841
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: like to learn more Ridiculous history, if you would like

842
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians, boy, do

843
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: we have good news for you.

844
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do it on the Facebook. You can

845
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 2: just go on the Facebook page for the show, or

846
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: if you want to take it up a not you

847
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 2: can join our Facebook group, the Ridiculous Historians. Where I

848
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: hear that pretty soon we're going to see pictures of

849
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 2: super producer cases, very lucrative childhood modeling career right headshots here,

850
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 2: there's catalog spreads spreads. Yeah, you know, probably gonna be

851
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: some Oshkosh goosh involved.

852
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: We'll get to see him with an assortment of fake

853
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: parrots on what I hear.

854
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff, good times over, good times over on

855
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: the Ridiculous Historians. You can also do us a solid

856
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: and leave us a kindly review on iTunes cause you know,

857
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,399
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you.

858
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we always like to hear from you, and do

859
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: remember to tune in for our next episode where we

860
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: nailed down the mystery behind the name of California.

861
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: Spoiler alert involves a badass Amazonian queen and weaponized Griffins.

862
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, what the heck are you guys talking about.

863
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: We'll find out on our very next episode. In the meantime,

864
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: that's all for today. Thank you so much if you

865
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 1: are participating in any of the stuff we mentioned in

866
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: this topic. Not to sound too much like a worry warp,

867
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 1: but we, all of us, the Quister and Casey included,

868
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: hope that you are safe and make responsible decisions.

869
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,320
Speaker 6: Indeed, I can't open the door, guys, I can't. I can't.

870
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 6: I'm too far gone.

871
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: It's because your hands are so tiny. Let's get some

872
00:49:52,239 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: torches from One more podcast from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,

873
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.