1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: Ah, excellent, Chris, that's good. That's good. That's the kind 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: of a tonal grunting that people have come to express 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: respect from the introductions of my podcast. I was hoping 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that, but then it was so bad 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: that it was great thrill. That's our brand now, it 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: can't be anything else. We've We've established it. Look, nobody 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: else is doing that. The Cometown guys, I assume aren't 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: a tonally grunting to start their podcast. I don't know, actually, 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: but I assume not. I guess this is just how 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: we are at It could happen here is a podcast. 11 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: You don't sound like you believe it enthusiastically, Chris, with 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: feeling this is a podcast is happening here? That yeah, excellent, 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: That's how we do it. Okay, what are we talking 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: about today? Well, one of the things that has happened here, 15 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: as we have discussed briefly in previous episodes, is a 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: bunch of strikes, and with us today to talk about 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: one of these strikes, specifically the Collogg strike. Is Mel Buwer, 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: an independent researcher, educator, and freelance journalist based in Omaha, Nebraska, 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: where this particular strike is taking place. Who has done 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: done a lot of journalism previously on the local Protestant 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: uprising the street and is also researching and writing a 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: book on alternative media. Hi. Hello, we'll welcome to the show. 23 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: Strikes Strikes apparently is what's up? It is? It is Strictober. 24 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: We're doing strikes strike wave baby. Ye. So this this 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: specific strike, UM, why don't can you can you walk 26 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: us through a bit about how we got to the 27 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: point where this Kellogg's factory is on strike? Um? Well, 28 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: first off, it's four plants. It's all for American kellogg 29 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: Cereal plants have gone on strike. Um. The workers and 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: these plans are represented by the bakery, confectionery tobacco workers 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: in Grain Miller's International Union. I do love that bakeries 32 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: and tobacco workers are in the same union. Yeah that's yeah. Yeah. 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: So UM, their contract was up for renegotiation in actually 34 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: UM and UM due to a series of weird things happening, 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: they pushed the negotiations to UM. They renegotiate their contract 36 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: every five years, UM and at stake. This year UM 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: was a sort of pushing back against a recently introduced 38 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: to tier employment system that they company sort of strong 39 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: armed the union into which essentially is not it's not 40 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: a good deal for anyone. UM. In they pushed in 41 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: this sort of two tier system where one tier is 42 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: a lower transitional tier and one tier is a legacy 43 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 1: or full time employee tier. UM. And what it is 44 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: is that, you know, it amounts to a difference of 45 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: twelve bucks an hour and less benefits. UM. Yes, yes, UM. 46 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: Dan Osborne recently did an interview with Max Salvarez at 47 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: Working People podcast and he really kind of talked about 48 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: exactly what was going on there. UM. And you know, 49 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: there's fourteen hundred people who work in four plants. There's 50 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: about four employees at the Omaha plant, which has been 51 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: around for decades. And UM, Essentially, what this tier system 52 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: does is it's capped at of their union workforce. And 53 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: the whole idea is as these full time employees retire 54 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: or quit, than these transitional employees will sort of be 55 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: funneled into the full time tier. Right over the last 56 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: five years, that hasn't really happened really at all. UM. 57 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: It was a bad deal from the start according to 58 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: many of the workers who sort of felt like they 59 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, they were backed into a wall because Kellogg's 60 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: was threatening to close the Memphis plant if they didn't 61 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: ratify this negotiated contract. So rather than experience, you know, 62 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: five layoffs in Memphis, they just agreed to it. So 63 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: they knew going to the negotiating table in that they 64 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: were going to try and sort of walk that back 65 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: because these workers all work in the same plant, same 66 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: days for a second third shift. Transitional workers are working 67 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: side by side with these full time employees, working the 68 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: same hours, which can amount to seven days a week 69 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: twelve the sixteen hours a day on mandatory over time, 70 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: and they are making twelve dollars an hour less and 71 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: they are not getting the benefits that these full time 72 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: employees are getting. So really, these full time employees are 73 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: kind of going to bat for the transitional employees. Um, 74 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: Kelloggs wants to remove the cap which the union negotiated, 75 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: which is at of their workforce. They wanted to do that, 76 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: do away with that so that they can continue hiring 77 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: more transitional workers, and they want to funk with the 78 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: insurance benefits. So, uh, the union tried to negotiate this. 79 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: I think according to the local union president, Kelloggs negotiators 80 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: were at the negotiating table for ten hours, and they 81 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: negotiated eight hours a day, five days a week for 82 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: two weeks, ten hours there at the table. So they 83 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: weren't interested in negotiating a contract. They had laid out 84 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: their their terms and they essentially told the union to 85 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: go kick rocks. And so the union said, you know, 86 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: we have we have until October five and then our 87 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: contract is up, and if we haven't ratified a new contract, 88 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: then we're going out on strike. And that's ultimately what happened. 89 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: So they've been on strike for this will be their 90 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: fourteenth day today. I think the fight against the two 91 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: tier system, I think is an interesting part of this 92 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: because that's been a huge part of a lot of 93 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: the different strikes you been seeing. This is with John 94 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: Deer strikes, is part of the Kaiser strikes. And yeah, 95 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what you think specifically about the fact that 96 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: this is like this is the moment that people have 97 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: decided to like push back against against two or even 98 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: three tier systems they were introduced in the last really 99 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: like ten or fifteen years. For the most part, Well, 100 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: I think it's just, you know, it's a divide and 101 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: conquer strategy for Kellogg's or for these other companies, And 102 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: ultimately what it looks like is it destabilizes well established unions, 103 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: especially at Kellogg's. UM and UM, it pits workers against 104 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: each other, you know, UM, particularly at Kellogg's. If they're 105 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: able to remove this cap on this tier system, UM, 106 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: what they're so actually doing is they're creating a more 107 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: precarious workplace for these workers. UM. The turnover rate and 108 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: the lower tier at the Omaha plant is right around UM. 109 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: And you know, prior to you didn't really see a 110 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: whole lot of people leaving the Kellogg's plant. You know, 111 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: these were These are workers who are spending their entire 112 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: careers at this plant. Their parents work their their grandparents 113 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: work there. You know. UM, they because they're all getting 114 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: paid around the same amount of money, there isn't this 115 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: tension on the line, so they're they're working with each other, 116 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: they're helping each other, right, UM. And with this tier system, 117 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: what they're doing is they're throwing these newer workers into 118 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: uh pretty uh insane factory conditions, UM and making it 119 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: really difficult for them to uh I feel like they 120 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: have any reason to stay there. Right. A lot of 121 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: these people will you know, put in. Some of these 122 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: workers were transitional workers who weren't officially hired by the company. 123 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: You know, there aren't full time employees. They aren't receiving 124 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: benefits like the full time employees are. For five years. 125 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: They worked this every day, seven days a week, three 126 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: months on end. Right. Uh, they have this really you 127 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: know punitive attendance based points system that discourages you calling 128 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: in sick. There's injuries that happened in the factory all 129 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: the time. You know. I went out to the line 130 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: and wrote a piece for the Real News about this, 131 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: and pretty much every person I talked to showed me 132 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: scars from accidents that happened, injuries in the plant. Um. 133 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: The union president himself got his hand stuck in a 134 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: like a mill and broke all the fingers in his hand. 135 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: He had to have ten surgeries on his hand. You know. Um, 136 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: there was an accident at the plant two or three 137 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: weeks ago where a transitional employee got both arms stuck 138 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: in a conveyor belt. You know. Um. The thing is 139 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: is these folks super proud of the work that they do, 140 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: Like absolutely take this work extremely seriously. You know, they're 141 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: not even asking for changes to their overtime. They are 142 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: not asking for, you know, anything that you know, for 143 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: me on the outside, i'd be fighting for more humane 144 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: working conditions. But to them, you know, it's it's not 145 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: like it's a point of pride, but they feel that 146 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: they have put blood, sweat, tears, uh, you know, fractured relationships, 147 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: time that they could be spending with their children into 148 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: this factory, and Kelloggs is essentially fucking them over. You know. 149 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: They see it as we have sacrificed for this company 150 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: for years and years and years um and we are 151 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: asking for equal pay for all and for everyone to 152 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: have the same health care so that we can do 153 00:09:54,800 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: this job, you know, and Kelloggs is saying no, absolutely know. 154 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: I think the union president said that some of the 155 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: negotiators called those demands outlandish during negotiations, which I think 156 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: is just incredible, you know, just corporate greed. Yeah. I 157 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 1: think the other part of the story is that, like 158 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of a weird consequence of it, 159 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: but like one of the things, one of those consequences 160 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: is sort of like rising like staple commodity price, staple 161 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: grain prices and stuff. Is that Kellogg's like they're doing 162 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: they have like record, they have record profits right now 163 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: and they're still just doing this ship because yeah, they 164 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: made record profits during the pandemic. They gave their CEO 165 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: pretty hufty raise bonus. Um, there was a stock buyback 166 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: program that helped. Happened among the c suite folks last year. 167 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: They made a lot of money, a lot of money. 168 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: And um, you know, these workers worked every day through 169 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: the pandemic, um continually understaffed, you know, um, doing their 170 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: best because again, they takes this job very seriously and 171 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: they are proud that they are feeding the American people, 172 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, Um, and they are proud to work at Kellogg's. 173 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: And they feel that this contract is just shit, it's 174 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: just ship. And you know the only sensible thing to 175 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: do is to to walk out on strike because you know, 176 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,479 Speaker 1: they've been backed into a corner and negotiations have stagnated completely, 177 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: you know. UM, and UM, they don't want to they 178 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: don't want to back down from this, you know. Um. 179 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: They and I agree. I feel what they're what they're 180 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: asking for is fair. It's very fair. I mean I 181 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: think it's I think asking for a lot more would 182 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: be fair. But yeah, that's not my place to be 183 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,599 Speaker 1: doing One of the things that strikes me about that 184 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: you talk about this tier system that Kellogg's introduced, which 185 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: I can't help but think of what happened that John 186 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: Deere where they I think in nineties six cut pensions 187 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: by two thirds and then like last year eliminated them entirely. 188 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: And this kind of bid to pit chunks of the 189 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: workforce against each other, um where you have like you know, 190 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: different groups making different amounts and sort of like, I 191 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: don't know, it seems kind of like the strategy that 192 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: you see in the broader economy, like written within within 193 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: the space of a company, where you've got like some 194 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: people who are getting pretty well taken care of in 195 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: their jobs and other newer people who are who are 196 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: getting more screwed over in kind of this this attempt 197 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: to create division within the workforce so that this this 198 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: kind of organizing doesn't happen. M I would agree. And 199 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: you also have to think, you know, if they are 200 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: able to remove this cap on the transitional tier, but 201 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: that means that is they'll be able to instead of say, 202 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:53,239 Speaker 1: say a full time employee retires, they leave that space empty, 203 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: but they still need an extra space, an extra person, right, 204 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: so they can just hire a transitional worker and out 205 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: of funneling one of those transitional workers into that full 206 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: time space. Ah, what ends up happening is suddenly you 207 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: have instead of seventy full time to transitional. The it 208 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: starts tipping right, it becomes a more precarious workforce. Then say, 209 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: for example, to do that in the next five years. 210 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: You know, now they have seventy percent of these transitional 211 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: workers who don't think the union is offering anything for them. 212 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: They can essentially just offer a better deal to these 213 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: transitional workers and kick the union out of the company 214 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: at some point. You know, um, and these folks on 215 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: the line understand that and know that that's kind of 216 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: Kellogg's plan, right, You know that the Kelloggs, what Kelloggs 217 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: is trying to do is essentially destabilize the power of 218 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: the union inside the plants. And everyone on the line 219 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: that I've spoken with know exactly what's happening. You know, 220 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: And these full time employees are out there every day 221 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: making sure that their transitional and you know, colleagues know 222 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: that that's why they're out there because they want to 223 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: not allow this to be something that divides their workforce. 224 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: It remains to be seen, what's going to happen, you 225 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: know what I mean. They've brought in scabs to get 226 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: the plant up and running again, and most recently, uh, 227 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: yesterday this morning. Yesterday, the Building and Construction Trades Council 228 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: union met with the union president in Omaha because they 229 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,479 Speaker 1: have about a hundred third party iron workers, carpenters, electricians 230 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: and skilled trades people that are union trades people that 231 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: have contracts at Kellogg's, and they came to what Dan Osborne, 232 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: the union president, decided called was a tough decision that 233 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: those union workers are going to cross the picket line 234 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: to honor those contracts. So Kelloggs is forcing the union 235 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: is in the city in like into a bind really 236 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: because they're they're you know, uh going to lose their 237 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: own contracts at Kellogg's. So that's kind of been like 238 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: the most recent development here is that rather than just 239 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: temps coming in, we have now skilled union trades people 240 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: from various Omaha unions who are also crossing the picket 241 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: line two honor their contracts at Kellogg's, you know, um 242 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: past these striking workers. So it's a bit of a mess, 243 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: a little bit, you know. Yeah, there's so much going 244 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: on right now, I'm kind of wondering what you think 245 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: are the because we've got a number of strikes kind 246 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: of all coming to ahead at the same time, I'm wondering, 247 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: specifically from the Kellogg strike, what do you think are 248 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: kind of the lessons that should be taken from what's 249 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: happened so far for the broader labor movement. UM. I 250 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing that's kind of impacted me as 251 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: I've gone to the line. UM, I've stood on the 252 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: picket line, I've covered these you know, this strike, I've 253 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: talked to people, UM, is that when these types of 254 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: actions happen, they really only can be sustained because the 255 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: community comes together to support them. You know. Um, these 256 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: strike funds that are going around and folks showing up 257 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: to stand on the picket line who are not part 258 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: of the union are really sort of become you know, 259 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: they are helping support these workers who can only hold 260 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: out so long with finite resources. Right. So, the big 261 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: thing to me is that past these news cycles of 262 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: excitement of striked ober of you know these people just 263 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: walked out today, well they may be you know, they 264 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: may be on the line for months and months on end, 265 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: and the new cycles going to move on, and these 266 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: communities are still going to have to try and and 267 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: and back up these labor actions, right um. You really 268 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: can't have true you know, you can't have a labor 269 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: movement without you know, support, right um. And that's kind 270 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: of been the biggest thing that has impacted me particularly. 271 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: You know this Almaha used to be a really formidable 272 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: union time. You know, back in the eighties. It was 273 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: really really something to see that the business unions in 274 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: in the various locals here really had some of these 275 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: union leaders had more political power than the mayor, right um. 276 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: And that has gone downhill over the last forty years. 277 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: And it's really cool to see, uh, the level of 278 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: solidarity that's happening amongst the community, you know, um, in 279 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: the ways in which people are kind of coming out 280 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: to talk to and and be a part of this 281 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: strike and to remind these Kellogg's workers that they're not 282 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: operating in a bubble, you know, and that the rest 283 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,080 Speaker 1: of the community really hopes that the strike will and 284 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: quickly and peacefully and with a really good resolution for 285 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: these workers. You know. Onever thing I wanted to ask 286 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: about in in terms of sort of this this kind 287 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: of researchtion to the union movements and in in in 288 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: terms of sort of communities support is the level of 289 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: violence that there's been against like against the strikes. I've 290 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: seen a lot of like stuff about people canna hit 291 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: my busses and like, and I don't I don't know 292 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: if I think I think I'm getting my strikes. I 293 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: don't don't know if they they've been direct car attacks 294 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: on this specific picket line. But that's when I think 295 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: that it's been happening a lot and a couple of 296 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: documented cases. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I was wondering what 297 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: you think about that, and like what actually can be 298 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: done about the fact that like you know that you know, 299 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: like this just the fact that we're just seeing auto 300 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: attacks on picket lines regularly, now, I mean that's you know, 301 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: it's a it's a shitty development. You know. Um, I 302 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: was out on the picket line last Thursday, and um, 303 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: they were attempting to bring in buses at shift change 304 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: past the the picketers who walk slowly. You know, they 305 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: don't want to stop in front of the bus. It's 306 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: illegal to stop and and you know, make it, you know, 307 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: so that they can't pass through the gates. But they 308 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: slow them down for a little bit. And UM, one 309 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: gentleman was trying, you know, was standing there and this 310 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: bus just bumped right into them. You know. There's videos 311 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: that have been shared through local news of buses knocking 312 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: down workers as they're trying to cross the picket line. UM. 313 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: And I you know there are also personal vehicles that 314 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: go through, and it could be the private security that's 315 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: been hired, it could be managers. UM. But you know, 316 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 1: they're running through these lines really quickly dangerously. It's unfortunate, 317 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't have an answer for what 318 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: the best h solution for that is. You know, but 319 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: vehicle tax have become sort of more uh, I don't 320 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: want to say commonplace, but you see them happening a 321 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: lot both at protests last year, and you know, I 322 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: think Warrior met Cole had some bosses running through the 323 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: lines and being reckless with their vehicles. You know. Um, 324 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: the problem is is on the on the back end, 325 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: the police don't step in when they see these instances, 326 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: you know. UM. And in fact, last Thursday, when we 327 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: had a hundred plus motorcyclists from various mcs show up 328 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: to support the strike, UM, the police were the ones 329 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: who protected the scabs and made sure that they made 330 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: it through the picket line. So you know, UM, the 331 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: answer to that, I'm not sure. You know. Yeah, I 332 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: mean that's a time honored police tradition. Yeah, they historically 333 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: don't don't exist to protect laborers, with the notable exception 334 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: of of the sheriff and what was that Mattawan and 335 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: uh during the um the coal miner strike in West Virginia. 336 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: M well yeah they shot him so well yeah, but 337 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: they shot some people first. Yeah, Um, sid Hatfield that 338 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: was the name. Yeah, I don't know. Um, I've gotten 339 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: to know some of these folks on the line of 340 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: the last two weeks, and they're just fantastic human beings, 341 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: you know. Um, they are accommodating and hard working, and 342 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: they come from all age brackets and they bring their 343 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: families out and um, you know they're getting they're getting 344 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: a raw deal from Kellogg's and UM. So far, the 345 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: community support has been overwhelmingly positive. Um. There hasn't really 346 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: been like at the John Deer strike. They're not getting 347 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: eggs thrown out of them, you know. UM, they get 348 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: a lot more honking and messages of support than they do. 349 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: People driving by to yell at them for uh, you know, 350 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: being a strike. So that's been nice to see, you know. Um. 351 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: And actually this weekend on Saturday, um, there's gonna be 352 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: a like cool vintage car show cruise around Kellogg's event 353 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: that they've got planned. The fire departments bringing rigs and 354 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: um teamsters, yes, yeah, and the teamsters are bringing cars 355 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of vintage car clubs that are 356 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: gonna be coming out. So you know, those types of 357 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: things have like really kind of like fired up these 358 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,239 Speaker 1: people to keep them out on the line as long 359 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: as they need to be, you know, so communities there 360 00:22:51,200 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: for him. One of the things I'm continuing to wonder 361 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: about is what it takes to close the gap between 362 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: understanding that you and your colleagues are getting screwed over 363 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: by this system and understanding that you and all of 364 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: the other people striking at the same time, and perhaps 365 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: even a bunch of people not striking, are all kind 366 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: of fighting the same fight. And then maybe there's grander 367 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: things to achieve than the negotiation of a single contract, 368 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: because that seems like the big leap that is going 369 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: to be the real struggle to clear. Uh yeah, you know, 370 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: um I will say that some of the workers are 371 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: fully aware that this is not just about a single 372 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: contract negotiation, and it is actually, you know, more about 373 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: struggles of the working class against corporate greed and the 374 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: ways in which the working class gets their asses handed 375 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: to them all the time, um um. And they know 376 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: that they know that at some point, perhaps at some 377 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: point in the future, someone else is going to look 378 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: at their example and be inspired by it. Right. Um. 379 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: As far as like maybe I don't know, ideologically speaking 380 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: or politically speaking, for these folks, it's uh, doesn't fit 381 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: into any sort of ideology leftist or conservative or whatever. 382 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: Everyone's got their own personal politics. But they don't really 383 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: talk about it on the line. What they talk about 384 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: is working class versus ruling class. Um that you know, 385 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: that's their sense. It's corporate greed, it's um asshole CEO 386 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: is making eleven point six million dollars a year while 387 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: they're struggling to pay their own bills, you know, um. 388 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: And and you know that conversation is more common than um. 389 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: Trying to fit this into a larger political movement or 390 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: revolutionary movement, if that makes sense, you know, yeah, um. 391 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: But I would say that the vast majority of the workers, 392 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: regardless of their own personal politics, have very clear sense 393 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: of where they sit in terms of class consciousness and 394 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: understand that this is one of one of the most 395 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: effective tactics to try and force the hand of these assholes. 396 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: You know, UM is to withhold work and withhold their labor. 397 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: So well, this has been great. I mean that's everything 398 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: I had to ask Chris. Anything else not that not 399 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: that I have. So there is there a call to action? 400 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: We could have our listeners or pages people should be 401 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: following strike fund Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a go fund 402 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: me and there's a PayPal set up for the Omaha strikers. 403 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: I believe the b C t g M International page 404 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: has like a page of each of the strike funds 405 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: for each of the four plants. So that might be 406 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: something that you might not want to share with your listeners. 407 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: I can send you an email with that, UM because 408 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: it's probably going to be easier to do UM. But yeah, 409 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: as far as I know, b C t g M 410 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: isn't called for an official boycott of Kellogg's products. However, 411 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be mad if you just didn't buy any 412 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: right now. There was some talk last week that some 413 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: of the picketers might you know, be flying outside of 414 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: grocery stores to try and educate the community on what's 415 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: going on with this strike. But beyond that, they also 416 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: are concerned about the quality of the food being produced 417 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: by scabs, so it probably would be healthy for you 418 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: to not by the food, you know, because I think 419 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 1: it was in what two thousand eighteen during the works 420 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: a lockout in Memphis, the same company that they brought 421 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: in then that they're bringing in now uh piste in 422 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: the cereal on the line, and they didn't release video 423 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: of that for two years after the incident, so it 424 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: ended up in someone's home, you know, GROSSI yikes. Yeah, yeah, 425 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: that's pretty fun, right. Um. So yeah, you know, support 426 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: your local strike fund and if you are in a 427 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: city where Kellogg's plant is striking, I'm sure those workers 428 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: would love love too to hear from you, Fiel your support. 429 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: So and where can our listeners follow you? I am 430 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter primarily at cold Brood Tool. I don't know 431 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: why I picked that name, but yeah, yeah, I got it. 432 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: I haven't changed that handle since I got into Twitter, 433 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: so um, but yeah, that's usually where I'm at. Otherwise, 434 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, I teach locally and had to have a 435 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: podcast that I'm developing and do a bunch of different projects. 436 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: So Twitter is the best way to get a hold 437 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: of me if you have questions. Awesome, all right, thanks 438 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: for having me on folks, Thanks for thanks for joining us. 439 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: I'll be back at the picket line, you know, talking 440 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: to these folks, and I'm going to do my best 441 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: to keep this ship in the new cycles so that 442 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: they aren't forgotten. So we've got a link to the 443 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: strike Fund and some other ways to help me in 444 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: the description. So yeah, this has been It could Happen 445 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: Here Pod. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram at Happened Here Pod, 446 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: and at cool Zone Media for all the rest of 447 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: our shows. It could Happen Here is a production of 448 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 449 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check 450 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 451 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources 452 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone 453 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,