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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up, everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jammelle Hill and welcome to politics and iHeart podcasts

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Speaker 2: and unbothered network production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 2: Imagine Lebron James working as a roofer once the NBA

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Speaker 2: season was done. Imagine Lamar Jackson buying his own equipment

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Speaker 2: and washing his own uniform after games. Imagine if only

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Speaker 2: the owners themselves control where a player played. That was

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Speaker 2: the reality of players before the advent of players unions,

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Speaker 2: which every major sports league has in addition to the WNBA,

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Speaker 2: the National Women's Soccer League and Major League Soccer. Professional

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Speaker 2: players used to live a much different life than the

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Speaker 2: ones we see now, and none had access to the

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Speaker 2: benefits that are now considered standard in their respective industry.

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Speaker 2: The first professional sports union was called the Brotherhood of

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Speaker 2: Professional Baseball Players, which was formed in eighteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: This is especially noteworthy because this year the thirty year

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Speaker 2: anniversary of the longest sports strike in history, the nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four baseball strike that lasted.

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Speaker 3: Two hundred and thirty two days.

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Speaker 1: But more on that later.

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Speaker 2: The Brotherhood of Pro Baseball Players was a seminal moment

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Speaker 2: for professional sports, but also for the history of the

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Speaker 2: labor movement in America. Now, the origin of the labor

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Speaker 2: union in the United States stretches back a bit longer

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Speaker 2: than the existence of the Brotherhood of Pro Baseball Players.

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Speaker 2: His story is estimate that the first worker strike occurred

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Speaker 2: in seventeen sixty eight, when a group of journeymen Taylor's

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Speaker 2: in New York went on strike to protest a reduction

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Speaker 2: in wages by Brooks Brothers. Since Taylor's were difficult to

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Speaker 2: find at that time, Brooks Brothers complied with their demands

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Speaker 2: for fear of losing valuable business. As the Industrial Revolution

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Speaker 2: was underway and America was transforming into a country with urban,

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Speaker 2: industrialized cities, the need for worker protections were vital.

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Speaker 4: Advances in technology created manufacturing jobs, and people moved to

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Speaker 4: cities to work in factories. But it wasn't the workers

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Speaker 4: getting rich, it was their bosses who raped in big

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Speaker 4: by paying low wages.

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Speaker 3: For long hours.

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Speaker 4: Fed up with big business, industrial workers created unions to

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Speaker 4: fight for better conditions.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty six, the American Federation of Labor was formed,

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Speaker 2: a year after the Brotherhood of Professional Baseball Players was formed,

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Speaker 2: and just like their working class counterparts, the two biggest

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Speaker 2: issues for the Brotherhood were low wages and the reserve clause,

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Speaker 2: which gave a team the right to renew a player's

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Speaker 2: contract and keep them on the team until they retired,

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Speaker 2: were traded or released.

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Speaker 1: The team had all the power, the players had none.

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Speaker 2: Now, the early iteration of the Major League Baseball Players

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Speaker 2: Union wasn't as successful as it would later become. Their

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Speaker 2: negotiations were with the National League, which was its own

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Speaker 2: baseball league and preceded what we know as the American League,

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Speaker 2: and things were so contentious that the Brotherhood decided to

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Speaker 2: form its own league, which only lasted a year. Now

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Speaker 2: it would be another seventy six years until Major League

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Speaker 2: Baseball formed another players union. It was yet another example

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Speaker 2: of sports being in lockstep or slightly ahead of the

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Speaker 2: rest of societ. The mission of sports unions isn't that

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Speaker 2: much different than what the unions of other American workers

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Speaker 2: were trying to accomplish. Players wanted better pay, healthcare, safe

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Speaker 2: working conditions, healthy competition for their services, and retirement options.

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Speaker 2: Despite the commonalities that exist between athletes and workers fighting

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Speaker 2: for change, whenever labor issues have arisen in sports, fans

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Speaker 2: almost always seemed to side with the billionaire owners operating

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Speaker 2: behind the curtains. Thirty years ago, a strike cut short

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Speaker 2: the Major League Baseball season, and from the beginning the

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Speaker 2: narrative was well established.

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Speaker 5: Well it is now official, no one regular season, no

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Speaker 5: extended version of the playoffs, and for the first time

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Speaker 5: since Thank You, No.

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Speaker 6: Four, no World Series.

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Speaker 7: Brenner so pretty Yogi Barratt.

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Speaker 5: Said it ain't over until it's over. He was talking

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Speaker 5: about the seventy three Mets. Now Yoga could say this

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Speaker 5: one's definitely over. The World Series has been played on

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Speaker 5: in the midst of two World Wars, in the midst

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Speaker 5: of the depression era, but now in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 5: in the midst of the greed era in Major League Baseball.

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Speaker 5: No World seriod, No more Baseball this year. PSN's Rodsmiths report.

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Speaker 2: The players did not want a salary cap, and they

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Speaker 2: were willing to burn it all down before agreeing to one.

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Speaker 2: But this was a battle that had been building for decades,

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Speaker 2: and things got so contentious that the owners briefly used

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Speaker 2: replacement players before the strike officially ended. However, as the

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Speaker 2: two sides were waring, the fans made it clear who

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Speaker 2: they were riding with.

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Speaker 3: Even if the biggest fans recognize what is behind the

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Speaker 3: pendent strike. I think it's done.

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Speaker 7: They shouldn't be having a strike because they're getting paid

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Speaker 7: to do something that they like. Some players, they get

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Speaker 7: to breedy the players' salaries. It goes up so much

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Speaker 7: that the prices that it stands they go off there,

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Speaker 7: then baseball just go out of business.

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Speaker 2: Now, knowing that fans often see it this way as

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Speaker 2: the greedy player who should just be happy with what

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Speaker 2: he or she has, the owners use that to their

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Speaker 2: advantage when it comes to negotiating with the players union.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight, the NBA owners voted to reopen

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Speaker 2: the leagu's collective bargaining agreement before the nineteen ninety seven

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Speaker 2: ninety eight season was completed, even though they were just

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Speaker 2: three years into their collective bargaining agreement that both sides

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Speaker 2: agreed to in nineteen ninety five. There was a stipulation

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Speaker 2: in the deal that if the player's salaries accounted for

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Speaker 2: more than fifty one point eight percent of league revenue,

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Speaker 2: they could go back to the negotiating table. The player's

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Speaker 2: salaries at that point were fifty eight percent of overall

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Speaker 2: league revenue. Now, once the owners decided enough was enough.

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Speaker 2: That was the start of the drama. On July first,

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Speaker 2: the owners voted for a lockout, which means they shut

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Speaker 2: down the league until both sides reached an agreement.

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Speaker 3: Here's why they did it.

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Speaker 8: Longtime commissioner David Stern, who had steered the NBA to

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Speaker 8: new heights of global profitability throughout the nineties, claimed that

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Speaker 8: half of franchises were losing money in the late nineties

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Speaker 8: while player salaries were ballooning to astronomical levels. Stern blamed

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Speaker 8: player agents, particularly David Falk, for quote orchestrating a campaign

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Speaker 8: to defeat any fair deal. He also cited enormous contracts

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Speaker 8: such as Kevin Garnett's sixth year, one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 8: six million dollar extension in nineteen ninety seven, which shattered

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Speaker 8: previous compensation records and raised expectations for player salaries league wide.

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Speaker 2: You know what's crazy in today's NBA, Kevin Garnett's six year,

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty six million dollar contract would be

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Speaker 2: ranked forty seventh among NBA players.

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Speaker 3: That's John Collins money. No, literally, that is John Collins money.

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Speaker 2: He's on a five year, one hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 2: million dollar contract with the Atlanta Hawks. Now, that NBA

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Speaker 2: lockout marked the first time in league history the games

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Speaker 2: were missed because of labor strike. The NBA played a

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Speaker 2: shortened fifty game season, but they almost lost the season entirely.

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Speaker 3: Because a deal wasn't reached on January seventh.

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Speaker 2: David Starting said if a deal wasn't reached on January seventh,

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Speaker 2: he was canceling the season. A deal was reached on

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Speaker 2: January sixth. What is it about that day? Now we

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Speaker 2: have another interesting labor situation on our hands. The WNBA

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Speaker 2: players Union decided to opt out of their current collective

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Speaker 2: bargaining agreement. Much like David Stern claimed that half the

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Speaker 2: NBA teams were losing money. According to a recent report,

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Speaker 2: NBA owners who own WNBA teams are frustrated that the

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Speaker 2: league is losing money.

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Speaker 3: Got to set that narrative right now.

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Speaker 2: It is true that despite the explosion and popularity in

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Speaker 2: the WNBA this season, the league is expected to lose

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Speaker 2: forty million dollars, But consider that the WNBA recently signed

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Speaker 2: a two point two billion media rights deal that could

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Speaker 2: belloon to over three billion dollars. The average valuation for

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Speaker 2: a WNBA team is ninety six million dollars and that

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Speaker 2: figure is expected to skyrocket. There are three new franchises

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Speaker 2: on the way in Toronto, Portland, and Golden State.

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Speaker 1: By all accounts, there is now considerable.

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Speaker 2: Interest in people securing WNBA ownership now. Currently, WNBA players

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Speaker 2: received roughly nine percent of the WNBA's total revenue, which

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Speaker 2: is unacceptable. And for those who are going to say, oh,

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Speaker 2: but they're still losing money, well, if you know anything

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Speaker 2: about negotiating, you know that you negotiate from a position

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Speaker 2: of strength, not from a position of weakness. With Katelyn

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Speaker 2: Clark and Angel Reese just starting their WNBA careers and

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Speaker 2: they're being more excitement and interest in the league since

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Speaker 2: maybe when the league first began, and with the next

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Speaker 2: Olympics being in Los Angeles, I say this was a

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Speaker 2: perfect time to use their leverage. I'm Jamelle Hill, and

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Speaker 2: I approved this message. Coming up next on Spolitics, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to continue the conversation about what WNBA players are

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Speaker 2: fighting for in this next collective bargaining agreement with someone

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Speaker 2: who has a very prominent.

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Speaker 3: Position in this negotiation with WNBA owners.

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Speaker 2: She is currently the executive director of the WNBA Players Association.

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Speaker 2: She was named to Sports Illustrated's twenty twenty list of

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Speaker 2: most Powerful, influential and outstanding women in Sports. Coming up

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Speaker 2: next on Spolitics, Terry Jackson. Terry, thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: joining me. I'm going to start off this conversation by

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Speaker 2: asking you something that I ask every guest that appears

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Speaker 2: on politics, and that is name an athlete or a

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Speaker 2: moment that made you love sports?

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Speaker 3: Wow, an athlete or a moment althea Gibson. I got

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Speaker 3: my first tennis racket when I was probably about seven

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Speaker 3: years old, eight years old, and seeing her, knowing, you know,

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Speaker 3: what a great legend she was in that sport and

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Speaker 3: that she looked like me meant everything. And we had

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Speaker 3: courts up the street from the house. So yeah, that

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Speaker 3: was definitely a great question. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I always feel the one thing sometimes

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Speaker 2: that we forget about in sports, or we don't forget,

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Speaker 2: but that we should remind ourselves in sports, is that

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Speaker 2: most of us love sports because it was fun.

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Speaker 3: It was something that connected us.

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Speaker 2: So I asked that question because it's a way of

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Speaker 2: sort of remembering, what is the emotional trigger that connected

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Speaker 2: us to all, you know, loving this game.

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Speaker 3: Now in your current role with the WNBA.

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Speaker 1: You're on a much.

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Speaker 2: Different side of things than what a coach or you know,

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Speaker 2: a player, or you know, even just being a fan,

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Speaker 2: although you obviously are a fan of the game. As

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Speaker 2: Executive director of the w NBA's Player Players Association, you've

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Speaker 2: been in this role since twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: How did you wind up in this position? Oh, great question.

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Speaker 3: The short answer is, I responded to an email. I

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Speaker 3: was working for the NCAA. I was the director of Governance,

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Speaker 3: and I got an email and it had the job

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Speaker 3: announcement for, you know, for this position. And I was

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Speaker 3: in the midst of preparing for the NCAA convention, and

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Speaker 3: I ignored the email. Honestly, I was like, I don't

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Speaker 3: have time for this, you know, I got other things

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Speaker 3: to do, and so I I ignored it for a

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Speaker 3: couple of weeks. Somebody pinging me back and said, hey,

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Speaker 3: did you ever look at that email. I looked at

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Speaker 3: the email, and I said, oh my god. And I

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Speaker 3: just kind of reflected in that moment about all that

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Speaker 3: I had been doing.

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Speaker 7: I had.

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Speaker 3: Research Title nine and taught a class so called Women

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Speaker 3: in Sport. I was working for the NCAA. I was

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Speaker 3: I'm just passionate about women's sports and passionate about the

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Speaker 3: ability to advocate for them, and just seeing my career,

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Speaker 3: I thought, Wow, maybe I had been preparing for this moment,

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Speaker 3: for this opportunity and I didn't even know it. So

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Speaker 3: clicked on that job announcement and told the person who

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Speaker 3: told me, who called me and said read the email.

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Speaker 3: I said, I've got to call you back, and then

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Speaker 3: just kind of went into war mode, honestly, because I

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Speaker 3: was preparing for this job that I thought was a

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Speaker 3: dream job, and I was right.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's important and intentional that you use

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Speaker 2: the language the business of women's sports, because this is

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Speaker 2: the first year in women's sports that women's sports will

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Speaker 2: generate a billion dollars in revenue. What does that say

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Speaker 2: about women's sports and how it's being looked at now

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Speaker 2: versus how it used to be looked at in the past,

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Speaker 2: simply from a business perspective.

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Speaker 3: It's just what you said, and you know, it's the

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Speaker 3: reason why the players opted out this year. I mean,

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Speaker 3: their mantra was, it's business. We've got to be about

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Speaker 3: the business of building this sport and building this game

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Speaker 3: and not looking at it like, oh, it's a good

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Speaker 3: thing to support. Oh it's charity or oh you know,

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Speaker 3: like create an intentional plan around this and watch the

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Speaker 3: opportunities just skyrocket. It's just that simple.

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Speaker 2: To Jamel, the WNBA players have decided that they wanted

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Speaker 2: to opt out of their current collective bargaining agreement. What

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Speaker 2: was the impetus behind deciding to opt out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so many people around the game, around

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Speaker 3: sport thought it was a no brainer that the players

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Speaker 3: were going to vote to opt out. And it's really

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Speaker 3: kind of interesting because if you go back to when

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Speaker 3: I first started in this role and we were, you know,

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Speaker 3: preparing for what might be, you know, the first opt

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Speaker 3: out back in twenty eighteen to negotiate this twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: as CBA, there were so many people who were panicked, Oh,

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Speaker 3: the players can't opt out. They're going to break the league.

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Speaker 3: The league's going to fold. And you know, oh what

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Speaker 3: was me. They were running around like chicken lettle.

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Speaker 9: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was so funny. And so now you know, everybody

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Speaker 3: was in a complete, you know, complete opposite mode. Oh,

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Speaker 3: of course the players are got opt out. And what

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Speaker 3: I told the players every single time we met, this

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Speaker 3: is not and of course, I'm not assuming that you

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Speaker 3: were going to vote to opt out. What we're going

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Speaker 3: to do is the work to arrive at whatever conclusion

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Speaker 3: you arrive at, because it's their decision, right and I've

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Speaker 3: got an execute on that. And it was about building

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Speaker 3: a group of core advisors, having lots and lots of

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Speaker 3: CBA meetings with our CBA committee every month, maybe even

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Speaker 3: a couple times a month, reviewing the league and team documents,

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Speaker 3: their financials, to understand the business, where it has been

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Speaker 3: and how it's grown since under this new cp under

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty CBA, where we are in this moment,

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Speaker 3: and then what the future could look like. And there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of conversations and the decision to opt out. Again,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't an automatic, but it was a two pronged decision.

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Speaker 3: You could stay in in the CBA and potentially begin

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Speaker 3: to fall behind, or you can opt out. And if

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Speaker 3: you're voting to opt out, we told the players, if

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Speaker 3: you're voting to opt out, you're also voting to stay

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Speaker 3: in the negotiations for as long as it takes.

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Speaker 1: Because this that of negotiations.

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Speaker 3: Are going to be very different from the last time.

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Speaker 3: This is absolutely going to be about a fight, and

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Speaker 3: if you have the result in the commitment, then vote

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Speaker 3: topped out. If you're not sure about that, then perhaps

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Speaker 3: you're staying in this CBA, in the current one.

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Speaker 2: So why are I know, all labor negotiations, particularly when

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Speaker 2: it comes to sports leagues and owners, there's always a

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Speaker 2: fight to you know, that's just the nature of how

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Speaker 2: they go. But why do you anticipate that at this

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Speaker 2: particular moment it you know, I saw some comments you

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Speaker 2: made before where you refer to it as there's going

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Speaker 2: to be some hard conversations. Why are you anticipating that

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Speaker 2: this could you know, I don't want to say get ugly,

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Speaker 2: but maybe approach getting ugly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, first of all, Jamille, I wanted them to

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Speaker 3: realize this was going to be different than last time.

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Speaker 3: Last time, there was so much to talk about, so

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Speaker 3: much on the table, so much to fix, and there

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Speaker 3: were so many things that so many opportunities we saw

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Speaker 3: last time that we knew the league and team saw

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Speaker 3: as an opportunity to come to the table and fix too.

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Speaker 3: This time there are dollars, real dollars, lots of dollars involved,

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Speaker 3: and this time what we're talking about is being transformational.

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Speaker 3: That was Neca's word at the beginning of the season,

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Speaker 3: and I'm glad to hear from the league commissioner. She

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Speaker 3: uses it every now and then, and I said, well,

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Speaker 3: that's great. They've they've adopted our language. Very good, very good. Perhaps,

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Speaker 3: you know, we will have the same goals in mind,

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Speaker 3: we may kind of arrive at them differently or look

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Speaker 3: to arrive at them differently. But Jamelle, you know, we

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Speaker 3: recognize that when there's a lot of money involved in

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Speaker 3: flowing through this business, when there's lots of opportunities to

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Speaker 3: impact the players, we can come together and do the

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Speaker 3: right thing and make transformational our common goal, or we

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Speaker 3: can fight. And you know, I'm the players understand who

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Speaker 3: they who they have in an executive director like me.

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Speaker 3: I prepare them for worst case scenarios. So I'm going

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Speaker 3: to prepare them for the fight now.

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Speaker 2: Some people will look at the decision to opt out

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Speaker 2: as too soon as you sort of mention that there

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Speaker 2: was a report that there are NBA owners, because there

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Speaker 2: are still some NBA owners who are owners of w

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Speaker 2: NBA teams, although I think, and you can correct me

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, that number has joined a lot compared

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Speaker 2: to when the league first began, where all NBA owners

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Speaker 2: owned a WNBA team, and now maybe it's half I

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Speaker 2: think maybe.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know it's gone back up again, right

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Speaker 3: because we have the team that's coming in the Bay.

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Speaker 3: So we have team now, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they decided that they wanted in probably a lot

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Speaker 2: of what you said, where there is some real money

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Speaker 2: in this now, so it's really become such an attractive

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Speaker 2: financial option. But nevertheless, there was a report that said

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Speaker 2: that NBA owners were not happy because the league will

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Speaker 2: lose money again this year, I think about forty million dollars,

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Speaker 2: and they weren't happy about the league losses. So people

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Speaker 2: see that report, they see you're opting out, and they say, well,

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Speaker 2: if you're losing money, why are you opting out?

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Speaker 1: Sort of walk.

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Speaker 3: Us through why one plus one isn't quite equal too.

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Speaker 3: Do you see me smiling? Do you see me smiling?

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Speaker 1: I see you're.

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Speaker 3: Ready for this one. Yeah, I am ready for this question.

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Speaker 3: And I'm ready for this question because it's their playbook right.

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Speaker 3: In anticipation that the players may indeed vote to opt

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Speaker 3: out of the CBA, they resorted. It seems like they

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Speaker 3: resorted to their own playbook, Oh the league is losing money,

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Speaker 3: and it just kind of kind of makes me smile,

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Speaker 3: makes me chuckle because I think a couple things. I

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Speaker 3: think you can't have it both ways. You can't say

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Speaker 3: the w is a winning proposition because clearly it is,

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Speaker 3: and then say, oh, but we're losing money. You just

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Speaker 3: can't have it both ways. But when you think about it,

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Speaker 3: I guess my response is two things. One, why why

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Speaker 3: is the lead losing money? Because it's certainly not because

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Speaker 3: of the players. We're in a hard cap system. Their

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Speaker 3: salaries are fixed. You're certainly not paying them more. They're

356
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Speaker 3: not benefiting in the growth in the revenue, so it's

357
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Speaker 3: not about the players. But two, my other reaction to

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Speaker 3: it is, so what, you know, maybe you've lost money

359
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Speaker 3: this year, but so what you're not looking to what

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Speaker 3: the future holds. And clearly you know your set of advisors,

361
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 3: like our set of advisors, have looked at the growth

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Speaker 3: over the last few years, have looked at this moment

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Speaker 3: and looked to the future and know what's ahead, and

364
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Speaker 3: you know, so it's it's just funny they resorted to

365
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,120
Speaker 3: their old playbook we knew it was happening, or going

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00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 3: to happen. Kind of shame on them, though, right because

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Speaker 3: when you when you look at this CBA, when you

368
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Speaker 3: look at the growth, when you look at expansion, I

369
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Speaker 3: think the league and the teams, if you pull them

370
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Speaker 3: aside and you get them to speak honestly to you,

371
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 3: they'll say, we're happy the players opted out. You know,

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Speaker 3: we look forward to that, we look forward to this

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Speaker 3: new set of discussions kind of sort of, but we're

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Speaker 3: happy that they opted out because nobody was going to win,

375
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Speaker 3: honestly under this new CBA.

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Speaker 2: And to give people out there listening some context when

377
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Speaker 2: you refer to old playbook that and I know you

378
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Speaker 2: know this is that the NBA owners do the same thing.

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Speaker 2: And I remember in ninety nine when the NBA players

380
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 2: on strike, they came forth with data that showed practically

381
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 2: every team and the NBA was losing money and how

382
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 2: could the players possibly you know, opt out? And it

383
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: was big unfair and they don't even turned out, they

384
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 2: don't even do the right math, first of all.

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Speaker 3: And the NFL owners do it like it's common across sports, right, Like,

386
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Speaker 3: if there's anything being close to you know, CBA discussions

387
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Speaker 3: and opt out or whatever it is, suddenly they're going

388
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 3: to cry broke, but they don't do the honest math.

389
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 3: Look at the valuation of the franchises. That's where they

390
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 3: make their money, and that's why they're not crying or

391
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 3: losing any sleep over you know, some losses that may

392
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Speaker 3: have happened this year. I'm not going to suggest that

393
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Speaker 3: they are not sustaining any losses, but I am going

394
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Speaker 3: to say when you look at the overall model, that's

395
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: not what this is about. They're doing well, and nobody

396
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 3: how old is the w Nobody sees in business for

397
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 3: darn near thirty years. If you're losing money, everybody knows that.

398
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And just so people again who are listening under

399
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 2: understand that is that, you know, you have multiple franchises

400
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:26,360
Speaker 2: in the WNBA whose valuations are you know, in three

401
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: digits solidly.

402
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Speaker 1: So it's like, you know.

403
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Speaker 2: And then the prediction of what it costs now to

404
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 2: get in and to buy a WNBA team is so

405
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: much bigger than when the league started, So clearly there

406
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: is growth happening and financial growth you know, on top

407
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: of that apps so you know, sort of another issue

408
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 2: is that not necessarily an issue, But I'm just talking

409
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Speaker 2: about narratives. You know, because I think this is a

410
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Speaker 2: good opportunity to sort of debunk or at least expand

411
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: on some narratives that are out there. When people hear

412
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Speaker 2: WNBA players talking about that they want to make more money, immediately,

413
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: of course, they throw in their face, how much money

414
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 2: do you bring in and all the revenue? And I

415
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: often like to counter with that and say, do you

416
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 2: know that the NBA used to lose a lot of

417
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 2: money and that didn't stop them from investing in the players, right,

418
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: But nevertheless, the WNBA, at least from my understanding, and

419
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 2: I've seen players say this, but you can lay this

420
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: out way more expertly than I can, is they're not

421
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: asking necessarily to make the same as Lebron James like.

422
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: They very much understand that the NBA and the WNBA

423
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 2: are much different financial positions.

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Speaker 3: What they are asking for is more of what they're

425
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Speaker 3: bringing in.

426
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Speaker 2: So can you sort of explain how that narrative gets

427
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 2: kind of lost about what the WNBA players are asking

428
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Speaker 2: for in terms of salary. Yes, first of all, I'm

429
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: going to say this again, it's business.

430
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Speaker 3: It's business. That's what that's the frame of mind, that's

431
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Speaker 3: the approach of our members and I'm just so proud

432
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Speaker 3: of them for how they think about their spore and

433
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 3: think about their value in their spore when you look.

434
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Speaker 3: I keep talking about the salary cap. Right we're in

435
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: a hard cap system, very few exceptions, and so we

436
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 3: can talk a little bit about this and hopefully it'll

437
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 3: come across as we walk through it if we are.

438
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 3: If we're in a hardcap system with this salary cap

439
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 3: that we have right now. You know, back before we

440
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 3: when we opted out back in twenty nineteen, let's look

441
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 3: at the salary cap there. It was under a million dollars,

442
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: so each team had nine hundred and ninety something thousand

443
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 3: dollars to spend on salaries across twelve players. They really

444
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 3: only hold about ten or eleven players on a roster,

445
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 3: but that's what they have. It's a fixed pot of

446
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: money that grew a little bit, that went to one

447
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 3: point three in twenty twenty, and it's grown ever since.

448
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: But it only grows not based on the revenue that's

449
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: coming in. It only grows just a fixed percentage three

450
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: percent increase annually. That's not a lot of money. That's

451
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 3: not a lot of money. And so when you look

452
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: at the total salaries. If you look at the total

453
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 3: salaries back in I don't know, twenty twenty three, it

454
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 3: was probably somewhere around seventeen million dollars. That is only

455
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 3: eight percent of the total gross revenue for the business

456
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: for the league and the teams. So I'm trying to

457
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 3: say this as simply as possible and do simple math

458
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: and simple numbers, but it's really spot on, like when

459
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 3: you understand it in that way, the players are saying,

460
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: we want a fair share of the pie, and being

461
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: in this hardcap system that we're in right now, it

462
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 3: doesn't allow us that fair share of the pie, and

463
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: it doesn't allow us, the players to benefit from the

464
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: growth of the business in real time. Three percent annual

465
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 3: you know, increases is not enough. And so again when

466
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: you hoddle up the salaries that were spent across players

467
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 3: and that compares to only eight percent of the pie,

468
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 3: the players are saying, no, no, no, we are falling behind.

469
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 3: This doesn't make any sense. Look at what the teams

470
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: are able to spend on coaching salaries. Look at what

471
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: the teams. You know, you see teams investing finally in

472
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: playing facilities and practice facilities, thank goodness. So the team's

473
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: ownership groups understand what it takes. But because we're in

474
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 3: this hard cap system, the only thing that's capped are

475
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 3: the players, and that just can't be.

476
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: That just can't be.

477
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: Until your point about the coaches, I think there's two

478
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: coaches in the league that make seven figures, Becky Hammond

479
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 2: and Natibbets in Phoenix. But you look at the other

480
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: salaries of the coaches and most of them are well

481
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: over five hundred thousand dollars a year. And so when

482
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: you think about what your highest paid player in the

483
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 2: WNBA is making, it's yeah.

484
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: Let's put a number to it. Let's let's let your

485
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 3: audience know, like a max salary is two fifty, it's

486
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 3: two fifty. And so when you look across professional sports,

487
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: how many professional sports leagues out there have this kind

488
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: of system where the coach makes more than the players.

489
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: Now, to your point about this growth financially that's happening

490
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 2: in the league that the WNBA of course signed a

491
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: two point two billion dollar media rights deal, what kind

492
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: of impact do you think this deal will have overall,

493
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 2: as to use your word, as the league seeks to

494
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: have a transformational moment, Yeah.

495
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: It's going to be a big impact. I mean, the

496
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: impetus around renegotiating the deal is you know, getting more value,

497
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: but also getting you know, the opportunity to show more games. Right,

498
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: you have access to all these different platforms. Visibility is

499
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 3: what's going to drive this and hopefully, you know, in

500
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: the partners that have been to go siated so far,

501
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 3: what is at Amazon, NBC, ESPN, hopefully they're thinking about

502
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 3: those time slots with more storytelling opportunity around around it,

503
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 3: but also to ensure that there are more platforms, more

504
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 3: opportunities to get the games out there, and so we're

505
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 3: hopeful that even more games are going to be televised,

506
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 3: and we're hopeful also that these broadcast partners see the

507
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: opportunity to build in the storytelling around the game and

508
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 3: so that we don't just start with the game, right.

509
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 3: We have a pregame show, we have the game, we

510
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 3: have a post game show that's full of the storytelling,

511
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: full of the analytics, so that we're drawing in the fans,

512
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 3: make you feel good, making them feel smarter, and have

513
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 3: you buy in, lean in even a little bit more

514
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 3: to the game, and probably attracting more bands because there's

515
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 3: that kind of programming, real programming around it. You know,

516
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to taking the Commissioner up on her

517
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 3: offer to have players at the negotiating table. And this

518
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 3: is something that, yes, this is something that has never

519
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 3: been done before, and I think it's never been done

520
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 3: before because nobody's asked, but we asked. We asked, can

521
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: we be at the table with you talking to the

522
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: potential broadcast partners to show help them see the value

523
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: of investing in our game, investing in the sport, and

524
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: having the players truly make the business case for what

525
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 3: for what next looks like, what the future looks like.

526
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 3: So I'm hopeful I have seen we have closed deals

527
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 3: on our side of the table. We have closed deals,

528
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: partnership deals, sponsorship deals, licensing deals. When we bring in

529
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: members of our player leadership to talk with the potential partner,

530
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: and you can imagine how excited they get to actually

531
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: talk with a player who understands right, who understands the

532
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 3: business and has some ideas and comes to it in

533
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: an innovative way. We know we can do that, leaning

534
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: in to do that, but we know the power of

535
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: the players and we know that they can make a

536
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: strongest case. So looking forward, to next su negotiations and

537
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: bringing in or maximizing the value with those partners.

538
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: All right, Well, you know it is.

539
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: The WNBA is just such a unique league because of

540
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: you know, when you're dealing with women's athletes. I say

541
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: this all the time, is that you're dealing with women

542
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: who are used to having to fight for their dignity,

543
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 2: their respect, and their agency, and so fighting with female

544
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 2: athletes that's a different.

545
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: Kind of fight. Right.

546
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, y'all don't want any smoke.

547
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: Because trust me, these ladies have been used to shamefully

548
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: unfortunately a certain level of disrespect, and so they know

549
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: how to handle themselves a little bit differently, and they

550
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: understand very much the mission of what they're fighting for. Listen,

551
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: I have so much more that I want to get

552
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: to with you, but we have to take a quick break.

553
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: And on the other side of this, I have a

554
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: messy question for you involving your family.

555
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: Haha.

556
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: So we'll get to that when we you come back

557
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: more with Terry Jackson here on politics. Terry, as we've

558
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: been talking about the growth and where you guys are

559
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: in the negotiations, how much was the decision to opt

560
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: out of this collective bargaining agreement tied to the fact

561
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: that this was such a banner year because you have

562
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: the presence of someone like Caitlin Clark and Angel Rees

563
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: and all the fantastic rookies, the level of interest for

564
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: this league, the table was sort of set at the

565
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 2: college level that this was going to probably be a

566
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: big year. How much did that factor into the decision

567
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: to opt out?

568
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: It was a factor, I will not lie, but it

569
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: could not be only factor, and it could not be

570
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: the driving factor. And that's why I was talking about

571
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 3: the advisors that we brought together, I mean the players.

572
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 3: We were a year out from this opt out date.

573
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 3: The player said, we need somebody who understands media agreements

574
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: and who can evaluate the past deals and help us

575
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: understand the broadcast deals and our worth in it. We

576
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: need somebody who has a strength or an expertise and

577
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: forensic accounting so that we're looking at the league in

578
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: team's financials, we can truly understand where the money is

579
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 3: going and where it's flowing, how it's flowing, or how

580
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: it's not flowing. We need somebody who experience in labor negotiations.

581
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: We want the strength of labor council with us at

582
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: the table, and you know, then we were able to

583
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 3: identify an economist, a Harvard professor whose expertise is economics,

584
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: and particular her focus is evaluating women in the labor force.

585
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: She won the Nobel for that. And so that's the

586
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 3: team of advisors that we assembled, and what they said

587
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: is what we knew, right, we can't just look at

588
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 3: this moment. We have to look at how this business

589
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: has been growing under this twenty twenty CBA to see

590
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 3: if it makes sense to stay here or not, and

591
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 3: where we are now and then where we are headed,

592
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 3: because if we made it just about this moment, we

593
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: would be too narrowly focused. It's it's just not the

594
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 3: way to do business. And what they had charged us

595
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 3: with was to make sure that we were staying focused

596
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: on the business. And so it's definitely a factor. But

597
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: we understand, perhaps even more and earlier than what the

598
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: league and the teams understood, there is a pipeline of

599
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 3: talent that is coming. So it's not just this moment

600
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 3: we are. We've been benefiting from it over several years,

601
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: particularly this year, and then look out for who's to

602
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: come next year and the year after that, and so

603
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: I think that's also you know what had us with

604
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: a couple question marks when it came to this media

605
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: the meteorites deal, Like why was it negotiated so early?

606
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: It was so early in this season. We hadn't even

607
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: seen the explosion your word, Jamel, the explosion around WNBA Draft,

608
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: WNBA preseason, and then we had this crazy season, crazy

609
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: good and the Olympics. I mean, it was a dream year.

610
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: It was a dream year in terms of approaching this negotiation.

611
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: You know, you said before earlier in our conversations that

612
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: this would be very different. But let's look at some

613
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: of the things that you all are are fighting for

614
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: beyond just the salary. I think you all were in

615
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: the last CBA you got some family planning benefits that

616
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: I think were very you know there there were certainly,

617
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, bitchmark type of things that like you obviously

618
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: don't see commonly in sports leagues, and so you know,

619
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 2: the fight thing was for that. The charter plane issue

620
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: has been an issue for a long time. What would

621
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: you say are maybe two or three just core things

622
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: beyond the salaries that you guys are fighting for or

623
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: will be fighting for in this negotiation.

624
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: Let's talk about family planning, because I just want folks

625
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 3: to understand it was landmark what we did last time

626
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 3: to secure, you know, one hundred percent salaries for players

627
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 3: who are on the Turney lead, right, that was huge

628
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: because previously they were getting fifty percent. So that's that's

629
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: where we landed under this CBA. Great job. It was

630
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 3: great that we were also able to get the teams

631
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 3: to recognize that they do need to create a safe

632
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 3: and clean space for players who are nursing and need

633
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: to take care of their small children and know the

634
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 3: bathroom of the locker room is not that place. They

635
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: actually need a dedicated space. So that was great. That

636
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: also happens to be the law, you know, Jamelle, You

637
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 3: and I know that, but that was good that we

638
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 3: got that secured under the CBA. Also to get reimbursements

639
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 3: for how you're starting to plan your family, so freezing

640
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 3: your eggs or perhaps a thought jersey like a lot

641
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: of things fall under that. That was terrific. But the

642
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: problem there is it was tied to eight years of service,

643
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: and so when you think about it, Jamal, I mean,

644
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: like your audience, who are fans of the W know,

645
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: not everybody's going to have a career of you know,

646
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: Nekago Mackay or Sue Byrd. You know, those are you know,

647
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: talents that have been in this league for a very

648
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: very long time. Typically what you see is players have

649
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: an average you know career maybe three, maybe four years,

650
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 3: maybe five. So they weren't going to have the benefit

651
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 3: of that if it's tied to an eight years of

652
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: service eligibility. So we got to clean that up. We

653
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: got to clean that up because if we negotiated that

654
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 3: on behalf of the players, if the league and the

655
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: teams came to us with that and we agreed that

656
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 3: that's the way we wanted to support them, then let's

657
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 3: make it a rebnefit that folks can actually take a

658
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 3: part of. Let's talk about charters too. We're all excited

659
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: we got charters this year, and the commissioners talked about

660
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 3: charters for next year for the entire season. That's terrific,

661
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: but it's not in writing. And so for you know,

662
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: those of us who are lawyers, we just know you

663
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 3: gotta got to memorialize these things. So we there are

664
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: charters now, they are charters next year again, but we

665
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 3: need to we need to make sure that that's caught

666
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: up two in the CBA. I think players also, they've

667
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 3: been talking about this, it's the previous CBA. How do

668
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 3: we support retired and retiring players? They recognize that they

669
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: you know, it's not just a phrase to say they

670
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: are standing on the shoulders of Cynthia Cooper, Cheryl Swoops,

671
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 3: Teaspoon and I'm not going to name them all right,

672
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to miss out on somebody, but you know,

673
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 3: it's not just it's not just a phrase. They understand that,

674
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 3: they understand the power of that. And yet and many

675
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 3: people don't know this. There are no pensions in the

676
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: w There are no health benefits that continue in the W.

677
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: Perhaps it needs to be a more robust for a way.

678
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of things that we can look at.

679
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 3: I think we've we've kind of use the shorthand term pensions,

680
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: But what are those benefits that we can wrap around

681
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 3: are retired and our retiring players because we think that

682
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 3: the business is in a position to start looking at

683
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 3: incorporating them and including them in what we're building.

684
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: Is it at all beneficial or in the issues that

685
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: you brought up are not just issues for the w NBA.

686
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 2: These are issues that our general workplace issues for most women.

687
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: Is that helpful that that connective tissue is there?

688
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: Absolutely? You know, we are affiliate members of the a f

689
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: L CIO and we take that very seriously, and we're

690
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 3: part of their Sports Council, and so we talk not

691
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: just within the players Association space within sports, but we

692
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: also talk with traditional unions and we talk about how

693
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: we can support each other and we talk about those

694
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 3: issues that we face in common. What we saw last

695
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: time when we got that landmark CBA, when we cleaned

696
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 3: up so much of what was wrong in the twenty

697
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 3: twenty CBA, what we heard from women across the country

698
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: and lots of different industries like they were fist pumping

699
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: and championing us and feeling hopeful because what we had

700
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: done had given them some hope and given them some

701
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 3: wins too in their industries. And so that's what we're

702
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: looking to do, just you know, unite with workers across

703
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 3: the country who understand these common issues pay equity, having

704
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: a safe workplace, and supporting each other. Because this is

705
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 3: still the year of or the decade of the labor movement,

706
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: and we're really proud to be a part of it.

707
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: As you know, there'll be another women's league, professional women's

708
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: league that'll be starting at the early part of next year, Unrivaled,

709
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 2: which is a three on three league that will involve

710
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: obviously a lot of the WNBA players, many of the

711
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: stars as well.

712
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: So how do you view.

713
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 2: The presence of that league and in terms of how

714
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: it impacts the w NBA and what you're doing there,

715
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: Because the salaries there will be very high in Unrivaled

716
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 2: compared to what they are in the WNBA.

717
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 3: So is this good or is this bad?

718
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 4: Like?

719
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: How how does this work?

720
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 3: From a WNBA standpoint? This is outstanding? Okay, this is

721
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: outstanding from my perspective for so many reasons. Let's start

722
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 3: with Unrivaled is started by founded by created by two players,

723
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 3: and not just any two players in the FISA, Collier

724
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 3: and Breonna Stewart. There are two players who are part

725
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: of player leadership. So I am really excited and really

726
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: proud of them seizing their power and creating this new

727
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: business model and also showing us, showing the league and

728
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: the teams how to properly value women athletes and how

729
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: to make these deals. They in their inaugural season, they

730
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 3: have a TV deal make it makes sense, right, they

731
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 3: have a TV deal and they've already announced you know,

732
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 3: expansion they you know, they're they're they're gonna they're gonna

733
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 3: expand their roster beyond the original thirty or thirty three

734
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: whatever it was, and they're going to include a few more.

735
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: And so I'm excited. They have been so methodical about

736
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: how they're doing this, the rollout for it, the conversations

737
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: about it, who is included. Uh, They're doing the work.

738
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: They're doing the work, and you know, they're that model

739
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 3: creates something for us to use as a benchmark, right

740
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 3: for some for something for us to kind of evaluate

741
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: and work against or work with. So I'm really proud

742
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: of them. I'm really proud of them. They're doing it well.

743
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,479
Speaker 2: This is this all is part of a you know again,

744
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: a continuing momentum, you know, with having this additional league

745
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: and additional opportunity for these women, and I'm sure many

746
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: of them are loving the fact that maybe far fewer

747
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: of them have to go overseas to supplement their.

748
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: Income, you know, with this season.

749
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: When you look back on everything that happened this season,

750
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: from the record attendance, the record television ratings, you know,

751
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: how would you what's your perspective about on what this

752
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: season has been like for the w NBA from a

753
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 2: from all standpoints.

754
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 3: Wow, when I look back, I don't want to sound

755
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: like a pessimist, because I really am an optimist. But

756
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: when I when I look back at this, I kind

757
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: of think about what could have been, how had we

758
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,919
Speaker 3: been from how had we been paying attention. I kind

759
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,479
Speaker 3: of think back when I first got into this job.

760
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 3: It was amazing to me how at the end of

761
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: the w NBA season things really went dark, Like you

762
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: didn't hear anything about w NBA players, you didn't see them,

763
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 3: and yet they were very much around. They were, you know,

764
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 3: working out in our facility, They were working out at

765
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: NBA facilities. They were going overseas, numbers, large numbers of

766
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 3: them going overseas to continue, you know, making money. How

767
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 3: important that was, and it seemed as though the WNBA

768
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 3: was was kind of hiding that, right, was almost ashamed

769
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 3: of or wasn't really prepared to talk about the life

770
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 3: of a WNBBA player overseas. I mean, I understand why, right,

771
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: because the reason why they were going over there is

772
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 3: because they weren't making enough to live throughout the year

773
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: and to take care of themselves and prepare themselves for

774
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 3: the next WNBA season. And so perhaps that's why the

775
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 3: league stayed away from it, But it was a missed opportunity.

776
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: When I think about the now, I do kind of

777
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 3: look back when I started and before then, and I'm like, man,

778
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 3: there was such an opportunity to really look at the

779
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: women's game and that global footprint that the women's game has.

780
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: The international market is huge, and our players, our members

781
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 3: are rock stars over there, and I just when I

782
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 3: think of the now, I'm like, this is great, but

783
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: what could we have and should we have been doing,

784
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: you know, for years prior and not just you know,

785
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 3: that international footprint, which I think is a big deal,

786
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 3: and it's going to become a big deal when we

787
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: talk about this next round of you know, streaming or

788
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 3: broadcast deals right that are going to be negotiated because

789
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 3: they're going to be a part of that conversation. I

790
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 3: also think about the missed opportunities with tapping into that

791
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 3: cult of a fandom at the collegiate level and the

792
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: business and the storytelling that could have been there. We're

793
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: seeing it now, but there were so many opportunities to

794
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 3: have tapped in and plugged into it before. And so

795
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: I'm Jamelle. I said it at the top. You know,

796
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: I'm hopeful that folks are paying attention. I'm hopeful that

797
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 3: they're seeing the real opportunity. I'm hopeful that they're seeing

798
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 3: that that the opportunity to work with the W and

799
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: and its players is different. And different doesn't mean less

800
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: than different, just means different. And there's just so there's

801
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 3: a there's a a demographic in our fandom that I

802
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 3: think is largely untapped for many businesses and many brands

803
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: out there. And if they just get the right people

804
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 3: at the table who can look at it honestly and

805
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: identify those creative ways to plug into the folks who

806
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 3: are the fans of the W, then this could really

807
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,439
Speaker 3: be something. And and so I'm hopeful that we got

808
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: to a point now where we're ready to do that,

809
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: because if we're still kind of pulling back and being

810
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: too conservative about how we look at the W, then

811
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: we're going to miss it again.

812
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 2: Now, Terry up and come in sports for almost three

813
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: decades now, I like to whisper that and not say

814
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: it as loudly, and I'll have to say like I've

815
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: never seen something a phenomenon like Caitlin Clark. I've never

816
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: seen this in sports, and that you know, to never

817
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: see something, it takes a lot. I mean, I can

818
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: point to moments and so that We've had players that

819
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: have been, you know, really big athletes across all sports.

820
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 2: But even her fandom and her level of a phenomenon

821
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: is different than say, tiger woods are different than other

822
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,800
Speaker 2: phenomenons that we've seen. How much did did her presence

823
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 2: sort of impact how this league operates? Because she and

824
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 2: herself she just changed so much about how we look

825
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 2: at the league, how the league is consumed, and having

826
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: that kind of fan base. How did her presence just

827
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,959
Speaker 2: change things just in one year?

828
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: You know, that's that's a great question. I don't think

829
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 3: we were ready. I don't. I don't think the league

830
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 3: and the teams were ready or any of us quite honestly,

831
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: for what was to come in this twenty twenty four season.

832
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 3: Caitlin is a phenom and brings so much excitement to

833
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 3: the game and certainly lots of fans to the game.

834
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: There's there's no denying that. I say. I say that

835
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 3: along with look at this whole class, like you know,

836
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: if I think if we focus on one player, then

837
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: we're then we're really showing that we weren't ready, right,

838
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: because the phenom that is Cameron Brink, that is that

839
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 3: whose season ended way too soon, the phenom that is

840
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: you know, Angel Reeves, and just keep going down the

841
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 3: down the line of this class. This has this has

842
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 3: been amazing. We weren't ready for a rookie class as

843
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: star studded spectacular as this one. And it's a little

844
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: too bad. But that's okay, you know, like, you know,

845
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 3: we can still we can learn, We can learn from

846
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 3: our mistakes, and we can be as nimble and agile

847
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 3: as we can be and just keep it going. But

848
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: I think there were opportunities along along the way through

849
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: this season where we could have gotten it right right,

850
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 3: We could have gotten it on track starting this season

851
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 3: as we have in previous seasons. We talked to the

852
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 3: league about security, we talked to the league about travel,

853
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 3: and you know, I've been having these conversations, honest to goodness,

854
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: with the with the league and the teams since we

855
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 3: negotiated the twenty twenty CBA. Every off season I bring

856
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 3: this up, and it was a particular you know point

857
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 3: of emphasis when BG was wrongfully detained in Russia and

858
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 3: when she returned, you know, and said very proudly, you know,

859
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to be playing with my team the next season.

860
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 3: And you know, again, the alarm bells kind of go

861
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: off for me because I that's that's the position in

862
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 3: which I sit. I am to make sure that their

863
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 3: workplace is safe and how they travel and all of

864
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 3: that is included. And there was pushback, you know, push

865
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: back then, and you know, knowing again, knowing this rookie class,

866
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 3: we were worried about how they would travel and what

867
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: that would look like and what security would would be,

868
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: and you know, we talked about charters again and and

869
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, the league said, no, we can't do it.

870
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 3: The teams are going to handle it. And then I

871
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: don't know, it's like six weeks later, everybody had charters. Suddenly.

872
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: You know, I'm happy about that. Don't quite know how

873
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 3: it happened, but very glad that it did. I actually

874
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 3: kind of think it was every single time the pressure

875
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: was building, right because I keep going in the off

876
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 3: season saying, we got to look at charters, we got

877
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 3: to look at their health, we got to look at

878
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: their ability to recover. We got to look at their

879
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 3: security this season. It was undeniable that there were going

880
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 3: to be some pressure points and we were going to

881
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: be exposed and the players were going to be exposed.

882
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: And so I'm glad that that's where we got. But

883
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: you know, I think the other thing that we saw

884
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 3: was the amount of hate and you know, kind of

885
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 3: vile comments that the players would get online and their

886
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 3: social media feeds, but also in arena. I want to

887
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 3: make sure that's clear to folks. Has always been there,

888
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: but it intensified to a level that was nearly unbearable.

889
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 3: And you heard so many players talk about I'm getting

890
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 3: off of social media. I tried it. I tried to

891
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 3: ignore it like they So many players were talking about

892
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 3: the impact of it and how it was building, and

893
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 3: quite honestly, I thought that there was an opportunity for

894
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 3: the league and for the league and the union, you know,

895
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 3: to do a joint statement and and say something to

896
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 3: the fans, to our existing fans, to new fans, to

897
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: whomever it was. I don't even know if they're fans, right,

898
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 3: but to whomever it was that was weighing in, looking

899
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 3: to weigh in and be a part of this narrative

900
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 3: in such a negative and malicious way, and to say, look,

901
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 3: this is this is not who we are, and this

902
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 3: is not what this is about, and this is not

903
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: what is acceptable. There was a moment to do that,

904
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,959
Speaker 3: and I was I was disappointed that that the League

905
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 3: didn't take us up on that moment to do it

906
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 3: and send a message early. Now, folks can say you

907
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: can't control what people right online, and you you know,

908
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 3: I get that, but I think sending a message early,

909
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: loudly would have done something at least would have made

910
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 3: an impact on the players to know that they had

911
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 3: back up and cover and we were truly paying attention

912
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 3: and watching, and we were going to intensify and heighten

913
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 3: our security efforts too. So there's there's a lot to

914
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 3: think about. We weren't ready, this is this is a

915
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 3: huge moment. There's lots to throw confetti around, but there's

916
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 3: lots that we need to just sit down and be

917
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 3: honest about and and be mindful that we've got to

918
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 3: protect these players.

919
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 2: How much do you think the league and even ownership

920
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 2: various ownership groups recognize or at least are aware of

921
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 2: the I don't want to present the word as challenges,

922
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: but dynamics, the unique dynamics of having a league that

923
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 2: is over seventy percent black and also having you know,

924
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 2: a third of the league is also identifies as LGBTQ

925
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: plus and what those unique dynamics represent. How much do

926
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: you think ownership in the league are prepared for what

927
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 2: that brings when you talk about how fans consume this

928
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: product versus how they consume other sports products.

929
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's too uneven across the league and

930
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 3: the teams and their level of preparation, their level of understanding.

931
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 3: You know, there has been a reluctance for decades to

932
00:52:53,239 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: truly embrace the identity of this league. And you know,

933
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 3: we knew it was gonna that was going to be

934
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 3: on a collision course for disaster, and I think I

935
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 3: think in many ways we got there, not just this year,

936
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: but there have been moments over the past, over during

937
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 3: my tenure in which they're if it's not a full reckoning,

938
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: it's close to a reckoning. Like you have to understand

939
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,400
Speaker 3: who they are. You have to understand, embrace and celebrate

940
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: and protect who they are when they tell you it's

941
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 3: in our DNA to stand up for others and to

942
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 3: champion the causes of others when they tell you this

943
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,439
Speaker 3: is who I am, and this is who I love

944
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 3: and this is what I look like when they show

945
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 3: up in you know, the the diverse ways that they do.

946
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: Celebrate that, don't look to hide that, but celebrate that,

947
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 3: embrace that, but also recognize that you have a responsibility

948
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 3: to protect it, to protect it. And this is different

949
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 3: from from any other sport out there, honestly, and that's

950
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 3: why I use the word different a lot. I remember

951
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: when I was interviewing for this for this role, and

952
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: Swin Cash and Tamika Catchings were just two of the

953
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: players on the executive committee that interviewed me, and they

954
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: there was so much conversation about the NBA and the

955
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: NVPA and what they had done or what they hadn't done.

956
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 3: And the question was, where do you see this union

957
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 3: if you get this job, where do you see this

958
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 3: union in the next five years, ten years, whatever it is?

959
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 3: I and I remember my my answer was, I want

960
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 3: us to value who we are, value our game and

961
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 3: who we are as different and just recognize the beauty

962
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 3: in that, the strength in that. And I understood that.

963
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 3: Then I know the players understand that i'm i'm, I'm, I'm.

964
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 3: I'm privileged to be their executive director, Jameelle. We need

965
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 3: the league and the teams to understand it, and not

966
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 3: just in that kind of a check the box kind way,

967
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:07,799
Speaker 3: but to truly embrace this the DNA of the w

968
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 3: n B A and their fans. Uh that's what I uh.

969
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:17,760
Speaker 2: Well, within that you mentioned before that in many ways,

970
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: the w NBA wasn't prepared for a Caitlin Clark, I

971
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: would say the media wasn't either. I had Nikka Ogoomukay

972
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: on politics a couple episodes ago, and I'm going to

973
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 2: ask her.

974
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a question I asked her,

975
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: and that was.

976
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 2: What grade would you give the media for how they

977
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: covered the league this season?

978
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 3: Well? I guess it all depends on who you call

979
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 3: the media, right. I mean, because there are there are

980
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 3: folks that are in and around this game, who have

981
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 3: been in and around this game, the w for years,

982
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 3: and who you know, who show up every season, who

983
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 3: show up at games, in arena, at practice every season,

984
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 3: and I give them high marks. I think they've done

985
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 3: well absolutely, And you know, we had an opportunity to

986
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 3: convene a media summit at the beginning of this year. See,

987
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 3: we do a lot of first that folks don't know about.

988
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 3: We do a lot of first And there are folks

989
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 3: who were the people who said, you really want to

990
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 3: do this, you really want to bring the media, you

991
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 3: really want to have a meeting. I was like, yes,

992
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 3: I do. I do because we see the enormity of

993
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 3: this moment and we understand the value that the media

994
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 3: bring to us, to the game and to our business,

995
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 3: and there is value in having a relationship and having

996
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 3: a conversation about who we are and how we're going

997
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: to do this and how we're going to transact, you know,

998
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 3: how we're going to talk to each other, what the

999
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 3: level of respect can be, how we can both do

1000
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 3: our jobs and maximize that, and how everybody wins and

1001
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 3: all of that. And so we invited lots of folks

1002
00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 3: in and we got there, but we also said, this

1003
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 3: is just one conversation. We probably have to have, you know,

1004
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: a couple of conversations. We need to do this every year,

1005
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: almost like a family reunion. I don't know, but you know,

1006
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: so I give them, I give them high marks. I

1007
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 3: think there are there are folks who look to jump

1008
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 3: on the bandwagon a little late, who don't know us,

1009
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: who don't know who don't know the players, who don't

1010
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 3: know their stories, who who ask the questions that you know,

1011
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 3: just don't make sense, you know, who don't even sound

1012
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: like they're invested in this. I give them low marks.

1013
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: I give them low marks for all the obvious reasons.

1014
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 3: But there are folks who are in and around the

1015
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 3: W who've been in and around the W before I

1016
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 3: got here, or some who who who have come in

1017
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 3: and just immersed themselves in what this game is all about.

1018
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 3: And really I mean like watch watch the games and

1019
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 3: can tell you about games, and can tell you, you know,

1020
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: stories about the players when maybe they saw them playing

1021
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 3: in college. So those folks, hi marks. The folks who

1022
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 3: are jumping on this bandwagon late, who are just doing

1023
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 3: it because you know, that's what their platform, their outlet,

1024
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 3: their network has asked them to do. This is a

1025
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 3: quick segment. They're just going for the SoundBite. Yeah, not impressed.

1026
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: Now.

1027
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 2: One of the media incidents that was mivorable this season

1028
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 2: was at longtime reporter and columnists Christine Brennan, who she

1029
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 2: has covered women's sports for years. She had a very

1030
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 2: awkward interview with the Connecticut Sons Dja Carrington, which she

1031
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 2: asked Djena if she purposely poked Caitlin Clark in the

1032
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: eye and then later laughed about it on the bench

1033
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: with a teammate. Here's that exchange, and I want your

1034
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 2: opinion of this on the other side.

1035
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 9: Dja, did you when you went and kind of squatted

1036
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 9: at Caitlin did you intend to hit her in the eye?

1037
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 9: And if so, could you just or if not? Either way,

1038
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 9: could you talk about what happened on that play.

1039
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 10: I just I don't even know why I would intend

1040
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 10: to hit anybody in the eye.

1041
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 3: That doesn't even make sense to me. But no, I didn't.

1042
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 3: I didn't know I hit her.

1043
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,959
Speaker 10: Actually, I was trying to make a play on the ball,

1044
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 10: and I guess I followed through and I hit her.

1045
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 10: So obviously it's never intentional. That's not even like the

1046
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 10: type of player that I am.

1047
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 9: So yeah, did you and Marina kind of laugh about

1048
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 9: it afterwards? It looked like you there was later on

1049
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 9: the game that caught you guys laughing about it.

1050
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 10: No, I just told you I didn't even know I

1051
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 10: hit her, So I can't laugh about something I didn't

1052
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 10: know happened.

1053
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 2: Now, the problem before I get to the question, is

1054
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: that if anyone saw the play, it was clearly accidental one.

1055
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 2: And then the laughter that Christine Brintan kind of referred

1056
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: to happened with DJNA and our teammate.

1057
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: Way later in the game.

1058
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: Now, you all the Players Association, and you in particular

1059
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 2: released a statement about this where you said that Christine's

1060
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 2: exchange with DJA was quote a blatant attempt to a

1061
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 2: professional athlete into participating in a narrative that is false

1062
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 2: and designed to fuel racist, homophobic, and misogynistic vitriol on

1063
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 2: social media. That's one of the most strongly worded statements

1064
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: I've ever seen from any Players Association. So why did

1065
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:19,920
Speaker 2: you feel it was important to send that message in

1066
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: that strong.

1067
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: Of a fashion, right you?

1068
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 3: You refer to the interview as awkward. I referred to it.

1069
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 3: I described that interview as unfortunate and potentially dangerous. And

1070
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: you know, we when we put out statements, it's not often.

1071
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 3: You know, look at our social media. I'm not even

1072
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 3: I don't even have the keys to our social media.

1073
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 3: So you know, if there's a statement that is coming out,

1074
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 3: it is one that has been thought about long and hard.

1075
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 3: I never put out anything that our player leadership has

1076
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 3: not seen and has co signed. And they they I

1077
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: shared a draft with them, I shared concerns with them,

1078
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 3: They shared their concerns, and they poured into that draft

1079
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 3: to make it even tighter and even more specific. There

1080
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 3: was a need to do that because at that point

1081
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: in the season, it had gotten to be enough. It

1082
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 3: had gotten to be quite honestly, too much. And I thought,

1083
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 3: I know that that writer was looking to do exactly

1084
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 3: what we what we described feed into a narrative that

1085
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 3: was being driven on social media that was malicious at

1086
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:45,479
Speaker 3: best and truly dangerous at worst. And I had had

1087
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 3: enough of that, Jamel I was. I watched that interview

1088
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 3: and reflected on the season and what I had seen

1089
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 3: from this writer and understood the social you know, the

1090
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 3: hate on social media, and I it was really unfortunate

1091
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 3: again that I didn't see a stronger message from the

1092
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 3: league or the teams before this, from the league before this,

1093
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 3: And so I went to the players and we talked about,

1094
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 3: you know, what we needed to do, because enough was enough.

1095
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 3: Enough was enough, and and and it wasn't just that moment,

1096
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 3: It wasn't just that interview, but it was a series

1097
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 3: of like these articles that were seemingly framed around one player,

1098
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 3: around Caitlin, and I will say so many of the

1099
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 3: players felt, this is not this is not helping us,

1100
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 3: it's not helping the game, and it's not helping her.

1101
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 3: It's certainly not what anybody wanted to see, and it's

1102
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 3: it's just not the way to talk about our season

1103
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 3: and to talk about this league and to talk about

1104
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 3: the growth. And I thought, you know, a writer who

1105
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 3: is as esteemed as she is, who has been around

1106
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 3: as long as she has been, who has the history

1107
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 3: and the knowledge of the sport I hoped and believed

1108
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: and of women's sports I hoped and believed, would do

1109
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 3: a better job at talking about and portraying and covering

1110
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 3: this league, even in this moment, because there's an opportunity

1111
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 3: for her to have shown and told her readers what

1112
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: this league is all about, why this moment is so big,

1113
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 3: and how it got here, and the way she framed

1114
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 3: it in the way in that interview, you know, it

1115
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: took me aback because I thought, I watched that game.

1116
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 3: I watched that game, and what are we talking about exactly?

1117
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,040
Speaker 3: And she seemed to kind of pick her moments, right,

1118
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 3: she picked the moments with the poke in the eye,

1119
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 3: and she picked the moment later, far later, you know,

1120
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 3: with a celebration for a three point, which I mean,

1121
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 3: are you watching basketball? Do you know what that celebration

1122
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 3: is all about? Like everybody knows what that celebration is

1123
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 3: all about. And so and then to pick those isolated

1124
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 3: moments and kind of splice them together was looking to

1125
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:30,520
Speaker 3: feed into something that she had seen and was reading

1126
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 3: and buying into on social media. And that was dangerous.

1127
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 3: And and I also thought, well, like, didn't they didn't

1128
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 3: they trade off pokes in the eyes in that very

1129
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 3: same game, Like there's no conversation about that. I was

1130
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 3: truly disappointed. I was truly disappointed. And again, I take

1131
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 3: this job very seriously, and that is to protect the players.

1132
01:04:55,840 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 3: And if no one else was going to say something,

1133
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: I was going to say something as long as my

1134
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 3: player leadership believed in that and co signed that and

1135
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 3: trusted me to do that. And so that's what happened.

1136
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 2: And sometimes as journalists we can incurb better public trust

1137
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 2: if we just admit we were wrong, Like, hey, I

1138
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 2: got that one wrong. And you know, I've known Christine

1139
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I was frankly very surprised

1140
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: I was done. And one of the lessons for journalists

1141
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: that I thought it was important to say is that

1142
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: you can't let social media.

1143
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 3: Drive your reporting. It's supposed to be the other way around, right.

1144
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 2: It's like our jobs as professionals is that we're supposed

1145
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 2: to be the ones putting it into context for you

1146
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 2: as the reader or as the listener or as the viewer.

1147
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 2: You cannot let social media trolls bait you into thinking

1148
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 2: something as a story when it's not. And so that

1149
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 2: was even more sort of disappointing is just knowing that,

1150
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: like you know, you're pretty seasoned journalists, so this you know,

1151
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: just because on social media they said it doesn't mean

1152
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 2: it's true, And we know, based off what we know

1153
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 2: in this age of social.

1154
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 3: Media, that a lot of things on social media aren't.

1155
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 2: True, and so from that standpoint, it was it was

1156
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: really really surprising as you think about what this next

1157
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,960
Speaker 2: season could potentially look look like, fingers crossed that these

1158
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 2: negotiations go swimmingly and that you know you're able to

1159
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 2: set that transformation into action that you want to with

1160
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 2: this league. What are you hoping based off everything you

1161
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 2: saw take place this season, the good and sometimes the

1162
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 2: not so good.

1163
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: How hopeful or confident.

1164
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 2: Are you that the w NBA will be more prepared

1165
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 2: for what's to come in this next season, because there's

1166
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 2: gonna be a new class of superstars, new names and

1167
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 2: all that. But what do you hope based off what

1168
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 2: you saw this season was that was the takeaway that

1169
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 2: can be taken into next season.

1170
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 3: Well, what gives me hope is that the league commissioner

1171
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 3: is using the word transformational like Neka used at the

1172
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 3: beginning of the season, so she understands the goal. What

1173
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 3: gives me hope is there are ownership groups across the

1174
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 3: w who have a conscience and want to invest in

1175
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 3: and protect and promote the players. What also gives me

1176
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 3: hope is is the players. Of course, I've got a

1177
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 3: dynamite player leadership. I mean this Executive Committee and the

1178
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 3: Board of Player Representatives. They're fantastic. They're dialed in, they

1179
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 3: keep their teammates, you know, well informed. We are connected,

1180
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 3: We understand, they understand the power of their voice, the

1181
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 3: power of the collective. All of that gives me hope.

1182
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 3: But that last part gives me the most hope that

1183
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 3: we're going to get this done. I don't know about swimmingly,

1184
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 3: but as long as as long as.

1185
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: I had my fingers crossed when I said that, I.

1186
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 3: May need you to cross your toes too, But however

1187
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 3: long it takes, we're ready.

1188
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:04,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, as I've teased before, we took a break

1189
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 2: to get to this part of the podcast, I ask

1190
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:10,919
Speaker 2: every guest a messy question. And so for those who

1191
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 2: don't know who are listening, your son is Jared Jackson Junior.

1192
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 3: Who also, like me, represents Michigan State University.

1193
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 2: And I can't tell you how much a little piece

1194
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:22,640
Speaker 2: of my soul dies thinking about how we didn't win

1195
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: a championship with him, and it just crushes me so

1196
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 2: much every time I think about it. Because the team

1197
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:29,719
Speaker 2: that he was on, he spent one year of Michigan State,

1198
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 2: that team should have won a championship.

1199
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: I will die on that hill all the time.

1200
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 2: But your son, obviously, he's an amazing NBA player. He

1201
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: also is very involved in the Players Union vice president.

1202
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 2: I believe in his Players Union. Your husband, who also

1203
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,960
Speaker 2: was an NBA player, he also was heavily involved in

1204
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 2: the Players Union as well, And we see and know

1205
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 2: what your position is all three of you union folks.

1206
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 2: So who among the three of you is the best

1207
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 2: negotiator in the family?

1208
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 3: Oh, no, doubt else, Terry Carmichael Jackson. There we go.

1209
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: Oh got shot.

1210
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 3: That was your messy question. Oh my, that's the messy question.

1211
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 3: Oh no, that was that was the easy question. That

1212
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,600
Speaker 3: was the easy question. And they would agree.

1213
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,320
Speaker 1: And they would agree that it's you. You're the best negotiator.

1214
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 2: Indeed, okay, I would. I would hate to sit across

1215
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: the table from you too. So I'm not even a

1216
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 2: member of your family, and I want but you know

1217
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 2: what I say all the time.

1218
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 3: You know, when when Jay Junior is ready to hang

1219
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 3: up his shoes and not looking for that anytime soon, everybody,

1220
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 3: but he should go to law school because he's quite talented.

1221
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 3: He's quite the negotiator. He's okay, he's sharp, He's very sharp.

1222
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: He's very shock.

1223
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 3: Proud of him. I'm proud of him.

1224
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 2: All Right, We're gonna take a quick break and we

1225
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 2: have more to come on politics.

1226
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: All right.

1227
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 2: Time now for this week's viewer a slash listener question

1228
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,719
Speaker 2: which comes from Jade Barner. Jade asked why do states

1229
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 2: like Louisiana and other traditionally, read states often face challenges

1230
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 2: with people of color fully participating in elections beyond just

1231
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: presidential ones. What measures can be taken to address these

1232
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 2: issues and ensure more equitable access to voting in all elections?

1233
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 2: First off, Jade, I wish I would have gotten to

1234
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,040
Speaker 2: your question before the election, but nevertheless, I believe voting

1235
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 2: is a lifelong responsibility, so I felt like an answer

1236
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: could still be beneficial to us moving forward. That said,

1237
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 2: although I drink and I know things shout out to

1238
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 2: Tyrian from Game of Thrones, that doesn't mean I know everything.

1239
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 2: So to make sure you received a comprehensive, educated answer,

1240
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 2: I posed your question to Gary Chambers Junior and activists

1241
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 2: from Baton Rouge, who ran for United States Senator in Louisiana.

1242
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 2: Gary unfortunately lost, but he's exactly the type of politician

1243
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 2: that Louisiana needs. And you're from Louisiana, and if you

1244
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 2: ever see Gary's name on a ballot, vote for him

1245
01:10:58,320 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 2: because he's a real one.

1246
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 3: Anyway, here Gary, answering your question.

1247
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 6: When people ask me why is the black voter turnout

1248
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 6: in Louisiana so low, I say, because the investment is

1249
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,759
Speaker 6: so low. You can't get a return on an investment

1250
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 6: that you don't make. The Democratic Party does not invest

1251
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 6: in Louisiana, therefore they don't get a return on that investment.

1252
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 6: Louisiana's black voters have elected a Democrat as governor three

1253
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:23,839
Speaker 6: times in the two thousands, two thousand and three, twenty fifteen,

1254
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 6: as well as twenty nineteen. In twenty fifteen and twenty nineteen,

1255
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 6: black people were over fifty percent of the vote to

1256
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 6: help John Beale Edwards become the governor of Louisiana. Mary

1257
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 6: Landrew was the US Senator from Louisiana in the two thousands.

1258
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 6: The lack of investment is why there's not a high

1259
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 6: voter turnout for voters in Louisiana, which you see in Georgia.

1260
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 6: Is there's been a series of election state wide that

1261
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 6: have had major investment, and that investment has turned into

1262
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,759
Speaker 6: infrastructure investment down the pipe that has produced US senators

1263
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 6: elected in Georgia from the Democratic Party.

1264
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 3: You got to put the money in in order to.

1265
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 2: Get the all right, thank you, Jay for everything that

1266
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: you said for asking me that. Now, if anyone else

1267
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 2: out there would like to ask me a question, you

1268
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 2: can email your question or send me a video with

1269
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: your question. But if you send me a video, make

1270
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 2: sure it's thirty seconds or less. Send your questions to

1271
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,520
Speaker 2: Spolitics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. That's Politics

1272
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,799
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four at gmail dot com.

1273
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 3: That's SBO l I t i CS.

1274
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 2: Also make sure you follow spolitics pod on Instagram and

1275
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 2: on TikTok. A new episode is Politics drops every Thursday

1276
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 2: on iHeart podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This

1277
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 2: is politics or sports and politics don't just mix.

1278
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: They matter.

1279
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: Spolitics is a production of iHeart Podcasts and The Unbothered Network.

1280
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,919
Speaker 2: I'm your host Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Shakoin.

1281
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,759
Speaker 2: Lucas Hymen is head of audio and executive producer. Megan

1282
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: Armstrong is associate producer. Original music for Spolitics provided by

1283
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 2: Kyle Visk from wiz FX