1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Welcome. You've arrived at the Taking a Walk podcast. 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: Where host Buzz Night explores music history with industry insiders. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: This podcast can be found at Apple, Spotify, iHeart, the 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: Podcast Playground, or wherever you get your podcast. Today, Buzz 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: talks with record producer extraordinaire Jack Douglas. Jack is a 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: legend who has worked with John Lennon, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: and so many others. Enjoined Jack Douglas on Taking a Walk. 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 3: Well, Jack, how did you first know that music had 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 3: sunk its meat hooks. 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Into you and would never let go? I guess when 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: I was about four or five years old. You know, 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: my parents they listened to a lot of music. They 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: weren't musical themselves, but they listen to this. So there 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: was always a ton of music in my house, in 15 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the Bronx, in our apartment. I was totally into, you know, 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: getting like, you know, listening to how much is that 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Dog in the window? And I also loved, like, I mean, 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: these are seventy eight so I'm talking about I also 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: loved like all of the story books that came out 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: Bugs Bunny, Stephen and Tyler and I talked about this. 21 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: We had the same collection of the Tortoise and the 22 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: Hair and Bozo under the Sea. That was a favorite 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: of both of ours. So I was into music and 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: storytelling at a very early age. And my dad worked 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: in a freight yard in Hunt's Point in the Bronx. 26 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: He decided that because they had a nice console in 27 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: the living room, that they listened to their music. My 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: dad listened to opera and my mom listened to what 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: was then called the race music, basically blues and R 30 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: and B and so it was a good contrast. Plus 31 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: you know the pop stuff that was on the radio 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: at that's on Big Band and Bing Crosby and Frank 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: Sinatra and all those folks. But my dad got you 34 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: got to hint that a a train was coming in, 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: and on the one of the trains coming in from 36 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: Chicago was a bunch of electronic equipment, and so you know, 37 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: they Tilford regularly. I mean, that was like part of 38 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: the perks of working in a freight yard. And he 39 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: decided that he was going to get me my own 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 1: record player so that I could stop putting these records 41 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: on their console in the living room. And so he 42 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: went in the middle of the night and he got 43 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: u He saw webcor of Chicago on a box said 44 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: record she figured said record players, who stashed him and 45 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: he brought it home for my birthday. I think it 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: was maybe I was six or seven somewhere in there, 47 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't And anyway, he put it under my bed 48 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: and then came in to wish me happy birthday and 49 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: he said, present under your bed. I looked under and 50 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: I pulled it out and unwrapped it, and both my 51 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: father and I were like, what the hell is this? 52 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: It was a tape recorder. It wasn't it wasn't a 53 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: record player. It was a tape recorder, a webcres, a 54 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: small one. And we got and we read the instruction manual, 55 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: and we went down to Canal Street and bought a 56 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: bunch of tape, and I started recording TV themes, which 57 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: I really loved off the television. There were all these 58 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: great themes. I love, Lucy, and I remember every one 59 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: of them so well, Abing Gistello and I mean, all 60 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: these shows, they're still going in my head, Highway Patrol, 61 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: drag Net and I would record these things and listen 62 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: to them. I knew I was definitely in their music. Also, 63 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: also the thing that I noticed that my parents noticed too, 64 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: is that they would take me to see movies that 65 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: were way over my head because I was a kid. 66 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: But you went to the movies on a regular basis 67 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: back in those days. And I could come out of 68 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: the theater and sing the main themes to the movies 69 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: the melody lines in the right key as well, so 70 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: they kind of knew something was going on. And I 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: would I would record street sounds that hang that we 72 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: lived near an elevated subway, and I would record the 73 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: train gone by and feedback and all kinds of weirdness. 74 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: I like to stick the microphone down my mom's old 75 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: vacuum cleaner tube and record those sounds and then and 76 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: then listen to them back at the slower speed. And 77 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: my dad once he said to me, I had hit 78 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: these funky mono headphones on and you know, for like 79 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: a radio. Anyway. He said to me, what are you 80 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: listening to? One day? And I said, oh, I'm making 81 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,559 Speaker 1: my own music. Dad. He said, oh, let me listen. 82 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: I was listening pretty loud, and he put them on. 83 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: It was the vacuum cleaner. He threw threw it down. 84 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: He said, he said, that's not music. I said it 85 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: is to me. That's music to me. And so he 86 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: figured I've got this music then going on, And maybe 87 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: a month or so later, apparently a silver tone a 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: series acoustic guitar fell off a freight car and he 89 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: gave it to me, along with a mel Bay chord book, 90 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: and he said, now you can make music. And I 91 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: learned how to play. And so I was in it 92 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: from real early and studied music in high school to 93 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: a school that specialized in arts and science, study theory 94 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: and composition, and ended up playing in rock bands and 95 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: I was off and running. 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 3: You actually played in a folk band associated with Bobby 97 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 3: Kennedy in sixty four. 98 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 1: Tell me about that. I was writing his campaign songs 99 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: when he was running for the Senate. I mean, that 100 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: was just an oddball thing I was, you know, I was. 101 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: I was really young, fifteen or sixteen, and I was 102 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: doing the thing in the village, you know, where you 103 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: bust in the street or if you could get into 104 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: a place where you didn't have to be over eighteen, 105 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: say eighteen was the drinking age. I would get in 106 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 1: and play for whatever, you know, basically traditional folk songs, 107 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: singing them. And this guy came up to me and 108 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: he said, hey, you write songs too, and I said yes, 109 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: and he said, how'd you like a job for the summer. Oh, 110 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: by the way, this particular guy came to a Young 111 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: Democrats meeting that I was playing at, was like, you know, 112 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: at near NYU. So I said, how much does it pay, 113 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: this summer job? And he said, well, he doesn't pay 114 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: anything really, but you get to travel a bit and 115 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: you'll eat and you'll have some fun. Well that was, 116 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, playing these rallies for for JFK. I actually 117 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: ended up playing the last one at Madison Square Garden 118 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: following the Ronetts. So you know, one of my claims 119 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: to fame is I played at the garden, the old Garden. 120 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: But that was I think that was the Democratic National 121 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Convention that was held that years. That was. That was 122 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: a good start for me, and I learned a lot 123 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: about politics and turning traditional folk songs into campaign songs. 124 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 3: You've masteredly figured out the art of collaboration. Did you 125 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: learn that when you went to the Institute of Audio Research? 126 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: There? No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Collaboration began 127 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: as soon as I got my own rock band together. 128 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: You know, it was not I made sure that the 129 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: people were in the band were real contributors create even 130 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: though we were young. These were guys that had most 131 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: of them a little older than me, but they all 132 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: had good ideas. And then I went on the road. 133 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: After I came back from Liverpool, I went on the 134 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: road for years and played with a ton of people 135 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: from the Angels. My boyfriend back and I would play 136 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: either guitar or bass play with for a while. You know, 137 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: I toured, I was. I was on three different major labels, Columbia, Epic, 138 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: and Bell as a writer and as an artist. The 139 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: last label that I was on was the was t 140 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: Neck and my band was being produced by the Isley Brothers. 141 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: And after that as where I made the decision to 142 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: go to the other side of the glass and enrolled 143 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: in the Institute of Audio Research, and also got a 144 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: job at Record Plant as the janitor. But they both 145 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: happened around the exact same time as my day job. 146 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: I was a motorcycle messenger in Manhattan. I was living 147 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: in the East Village, but that paid great money because 148 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: I would I would ride that bike all through winter 149 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: and it meant that the nights I could I could 150 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: gig with the band, so it was you know, all 151 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: I to do is call up and say the dispatcher 152 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: and say I'm on. And I had this Norton commando 153 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: and in the winter I'd have knobby wheels on it so 154 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: I could get around in the snow. And then the 155 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: winter paid great money, so it was like really cool. 156 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 3: But when you became the janitor, you must have had 157 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: your sights on becoming a recording engineer. 158 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: Well I did. In fact, I wanted to be a 159 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: producer as well and a composer. And the funny thing was, 160 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: while I was the janitor at night, I was also 161 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: a client because I was scoring the original ABC after 162 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: school specials for the producer Danny Wilson and such. Danny's 163 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: still active, it's great. But I went to work producing 164 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: music for his show, which was the Call Over seven 165 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: and it was the original ABC after school specials, And 166 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: so at night I would be a client and in 167 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: the daytime I was the janitor, but I was you know, 168 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: I would beg other engineers if I could just sit 169 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: in on their sessions so I could learn between and 170 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: I worked my way up from general worker. Actually after 171 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: a janitor you just cart and stuff around and record 172 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: plant also ran a school for us, you know, guys 173 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: that were on the way up. So I learned a 174 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: lot there and I became a tape librarian and I 175 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: went into the editing booth. I was an editor, then 176 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: I was an assistant engineer, doing tons of stuff, you know, 177 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: working with great rock bands that were coming through record 178 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: Plan and also early mornings, I was doing jingles for 179 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: the Forward and Airlines and you know all those big 180 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: commercials when you had the big orchestra dates and rhythm session. 181 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: And I was also doing artists demos, so I did 182 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: all of Billy Joel's demos for him to get his 183 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: deal at Columbia. I did Patty the Bell demos, and 184 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: these are four track, so they would want to come 185 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: in and listen to what it sounded like before they 186 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: went in and invested in the big rooms to do it. 187 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: And that's a great learning experience when you have to 188 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: record all this stuff for track, especially if you've got 189 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: a big rhythm section that's you know, I was in 190 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: a hurry. It didn't take me long. Honestly. They would 191 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: let me at midnight. They would let me come in 192 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: and record whoever I wanted for free, you know, like 193 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: local bands, and I really made my bones by bringing 194 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: in groups and recording them and learning how to do 195 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: it right. 196 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 3: What a fascinating time it must have been in that area. 197 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: It's still a fascinating area that the whole scene. And 198 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: since this podcast is called taking a Walk, I have 199 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 3: to ask you, even though we're virtual, so did you 200 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 3: ever get sort of in a creative block where things 201 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 3: were kind of jammed up? And would you just go 202 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 3: for a walk in the village to free your mind? 203 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: No? No, I didn't have time for that at all. No. 204 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: If I had a block, I had to work it 205 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: out while it was behind the board. But I mean 206 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: I made some terrible blunders. I was recording Patty Labelle's 207 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: demos and the guy put these old boards, especially the 208 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: four track boards were all tubes and they had giant 209 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: transformers and the bass player and I thought, man, I'm 210 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: doing this. This demo sounds so good because there's a 211 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: full rhythm section and her and you know I and 212 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: I said, and you have to do everything live. You 213 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: have to do your reverb or your compression. Everything has 214 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: to be done on the fly right away because there's 215 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: no going back to it. And so I'm doing this 216 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, Wow, I'm really good here, and the 217 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: bass player came in. I couldn't wait to play it 218 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: for Patty because I thought, she's not even going to 219 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: have to do a master. This is it. And the 220 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: bass player came around behind me and he put his 221 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: beer next to me. I didn't see it in the 222 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: remote for the tape machine. It was in between me 223 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: and the remote for the tape machine. And I went 224 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: to hit the remote and hit the beer, and the 225 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: beer went into the transformers and flame shot out, and 226 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: literally I burned the board down. The flames were coming 227 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: out of the faders. I destroyed the room that the 228 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: board was gone, and I got fired immediately. The owner, 229 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: Chris Stone came he said, you're fired. Patty LaBelle went 230 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: to him and said it wasn't his fault at all. 231 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: And Roy Sakala, who was the chief engineer, who quite 232 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: famous guy, he was my mentor. He said to Christone, 233 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: he said, why don't we listen to the tape, And 234 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: because the tape was still there, he said, list listen 235 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: to the tape because if it's good, he'll make more 236 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: money for the studio than that board cost, which was 237 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: on its way out anyway, they listened to the tape 238 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: and the next day Chris Stone called me up. I 239 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: was like, oh, my career is over. I'm going to 240 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: do this is terrible. Christone called me up and he said, well, 241 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: they decided to give you another chance. And he said, 242 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: but we're going to give you a pay cut from 243 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: sixty five dollars a week to sixty dollars a week. 244 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: I said, fine, So I got but you know you 245 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: trip along the way for sure, you know, but yeah, 246 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: I never had time to go. I mean, for me, 247 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: I was on the course that I wanted to be on. 248 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: I was learning by working as an assistant, working on 249 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: products that had either lousy producers are really good ones, 250 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: and I would be taking notes on this works, this 251 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: doesn't work. And I was an assistant on American Pie 252 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: and I watched how all these bits and pieces of 253 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: that song were edited together to make that masterpiece. Now 254 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: that that works. So I mean I worked with a 255 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of producers along the way as both an assistant 256 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: and then as an engineer, which I became like the 257 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: rock guy, probably because I played music rock for so long. 258 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: But those notes really helped me understanding what worked with 259 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: an artist and what didn't. 260 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: So as you were in that recording, you know, engineer 261 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: mode there, I wanted to get your reaction to some 262 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: folks that you worked with that were pretty amazing. I'm 263 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: going to start with Miles Davis. 264 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, I was. I mean, first of all, he was 265 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: great in the studio, not not at all, be treated 266 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: everybody great, the fellow musicians, the crew. Mostly I assisted 267 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: on those sessions. I assisted on Miles, I assisted on 268 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: Nina Simone because Jay Messina was the jazz guy, and 269 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: Jay would always bring me in to do these jazz states, 270 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: Mike McNairy record Brothers, and so I got to you know, 271 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: I be working hand in hand with him on these 272 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: great sessions. But I was, you know, a giant Miles fan, 273 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: John Coltry fan, and and I was, you know, I 274 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect. You know, you always hear 275 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: Miles turns his back on you. And Miles Miles was 276 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: the sweetest guy in the studio because he understood that 277 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: in the studio probably unlike a life performance, that is 278 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: a collaborative situation and the crew is important. So he 279 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: was just really sweet. And he loved Jamie Sina because 280 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 1: they wore the same shoe size, and j would always 281 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: come in with like a really cool pair of shoes, 282 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: and my also say Jay, hey, j can't you do 283 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: his voice? But you would ask Jay to pick him 284 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: up a pair of those shoes when he was at 285 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: the store, and j would deliver him over to his 286 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: brownstone on the West Side near where Jay lives. He 287 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: was great. Nina Simone scared me. Working with Nina. I 288 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: would be, you know, putting the setting a mic and 289 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: interview because she'd be singing and playing piano and she 290 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: just look at me like, are you sure that's in 291 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: the right place that you give me? Looking at it? Well, 292 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: I think it is the fun stuff. Who else? James 293 00:18:53,400 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: Gang again, I was assisting on James Gang's. They were brothers. 294 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: They brought the mother in one time. I guess they 295 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: were from Indiana or something like that. The funny thing is, 296 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: you know, I recently I've become really good friends with, 297 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: well the last few years, with Joe Walsh. When I'm 298 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: out in la I see him quite often because he 299 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: works with Ringo and I see Ringo quite often. I 300 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: got to talking to him and I said, you remember 301 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: that album you were doing that record plant James Kang 302 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: and he said sure, I said I was. I was 303 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: the other engineer and he said you got to be 304 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: shoting me. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, I said, yeah, that 305 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: was me. And that was Bill Simsick was engineer producer. 306 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: I guess Bill went on to work with the Eagles. 307 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: In fact, he invited me down to Miami to listen 308 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: to when he had this motel that he had converted 309 00:19:55,359 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: and Coconut Grove into a studio. Can't Be invited me 310 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: down to listen to what he was doing. Yeah, that 311 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: was fun and those guys were very cool and very 312 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: professional in the studio. 313 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: Another one that I love to mention is the one 314 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 3: and only Alice Cooper. 315 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: Well, uh, that was pretty cool because I loved working 316 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: with Bob Ezram. Bob was He was a funny caddy. 317 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: He was and he is extremely talented musician and arranger 318 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: and writer. And he was a guy that I learned 319 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: both pro and con from because he had he had 320 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: his talent was so supreme that his ideas were always good, 321 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: but there was never a lot of room for the 322 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: for the band, in particular Alice's band, their ideas. It 323 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: was like Bob laid down the law and that's how 324 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: you did it, and they were used to that working 325 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: with him, and so I thought, and I don't think 326 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: I can ever ever do it that way, but and 327 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not as talented as Bob, but I 328 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: can work around it. But Alice sessions were great, and 329 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: I worked on Schools Out and Billion Dollar Babies with Bob. 330 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: And then after doing the Dolls album, the first album, 331 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: Bob came to me and he said, you know you're 332 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: because Todd didn't show up very much and I had 333 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: a good relationship with the band. We would we would 334 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: keep that going. And Bob told me, he said, you 335 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: know you're you're producing this now as well you should 336 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: be producing. And so I'm going to give you the 337 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,239 Speaker 1: next Alice album to produce because it's the it's the 338 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: last group album. And then Alice is going solo with me, 339 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: and he said, I don't like funerals, and so you're 340 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: going to produce it, which Muscle of Love. They put 341 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: Jack Richardson in there with me too, to keep an 342 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: eye on me. And what would bring your first encounter 343 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: with cheap trick? That was I had relatives in Waukeshaw, Wisconsin, 344 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: my brother in law. He said to me You've got 345 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: to come see this band that's playing at the Sunset 346 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: Bowl Bowling Alley in Waukeshaw. They're really good, and I thought, God, 347 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: my brother in laws taste of music is just terrible. 348 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: But what the hell, I got nothing else to do. 349 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: So we went to the bowling alley and Chief Trick 350 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: was playing, and they would I mean, they knocked me out. 351 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: They were incredible. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. 352 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: And I had known about them because they were already 353 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: making noise, not signed, but already making noise around the Midwest. 354 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: I told them that right then and there. I said, 355 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: I think I can get you a deal and I'd 356 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: like to produce you. And they said okay. So the 357 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: next day I called up my palate, Epic Records, and said, 358 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: get out here and see this band, and if you 359 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: don't sign them, I'll take them to the RCA. And 360 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: because my reputation with CBS Records, which was Columbia and Epic, 361 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: because my relationship was good with them, he came out 362 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: and they were signed shortly after the Epic Records, and 363 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: shortly after that I was out there. We did a 364 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: quick pre production. Mostly they had so much material. It 365 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: was crazy, insane amount of material. It was just a 366 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: matter of making sure it was recordable, edited a little 367 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: bit here and there. You know. It wasn't like I 368 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: had to do any co writing with them at all. 369 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: They were really self contained in that department. I didn't 370 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: do very much arranging except maybe on the overdubs, things 371 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: like Mandocello or I mean, we knocked off I think 372 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: thirty basic tracks in two weeks when we went into 373 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: record play and then you know, I said, well, these 374 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: these songs will put on the back burner because I 375 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: don't think they quite fit on this album, which the 376 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: first album is a lot of social and political statements 377 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: in it. I thought, we're going to go to college 378 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: radio with this, and we'll put these other ones on 379 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: the back burner. Other Go Go Girls, I Want You 380 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: To Want Me, Surrender, We'll put those on the back 381 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: burner for the next record. Unfortunately, the next record I 382 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: was doing aerosmith to draw the line. That took a 383 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: year to do, so I never got to them to 384 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: the second album I wish I had, and I didn't 385 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: get back to them until Budacom. But that proved to 386 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: be pretty good. Fifteen million records and still still selling. 387 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about your encounter with the who well who 388 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: were coming in to do. I think it was called 389 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: the Lighthouse Project something like that, and it wasn't Who's Next, 390 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: but it was the material that was going to make 391 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: up Who's Next. And so they wanted to record all 392 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: this material, and they said, give us your chief engineer. 393 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: They were gigging around the Northeast at the time, but 394 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: give us your chief engineer. And so the chief engineer 395 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: was a guy named Jack Adams, and he was not 396 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: a rock engineer, but he was the chief engineer. He 397 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: was an R and B guy, and he didn't like 398 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: rock music very much at all, and so knowing that, 399 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: they put me on the date to assist him. And 400 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: so I see, you know, the equipment came into the room, 401 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: all Keith drums, and I set up like I was 402 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: setting up for a big rock day like Mountain, one 403 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: of those kinds of dates where it's going to be 404 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: heavy and loud, and individually miked all the tom toms 405 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: and stuff that Jack normally would do, because an R 406 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: and B session is very different. And then the band 407 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: came in and I said, let's Jack Adams wasn't there yet, 408 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: And I said, you guys want to roll something so 409 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 1: I could get the room totally set up? Sure, and 410 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: so I rolled tape and they started jamming, and they 411 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: started jamming on Baby, Don't Do It, Don't Break Your Heart? 412 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: And I said to hey, do you mind if I 413 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: get a friend of mine to commit and jam with 414 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: you guys. It was Leslie West, who was in the 415 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: next room, and so they said, no, we love Leslie West. 416 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: So I went and I got Leslie and he came 417 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: in and he jammed. I think that particular jam session 418 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: is available Leslie West and the Who playing we Don't 419 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: Do It recorded. It sounded really good, sounded like the Who. 420 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: I got it all tuned up. Jack came into the room. Finally. 421 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: I love Jack Adams. He was a fabulous R and 422 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: B guy and later disco too. He did. But he 423 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: came into the room and he said, oh, what is this? 424 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: I said, you know, it's the Who. He's like? Who? What? Who? 425 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm like? The last album Jack was Tommy. It was 426 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: unbelievable huge, It wasn't into it that much. They came 427 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: into the into the booth and they said, let's hear 428 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: that back. What we just jammed, so we know it 429 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: sounds like So I got to spun the tape backwards 430 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: and and they listened to it, and Pete went over 431 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: and franked Now the big Westlake monitors in that room, 432 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, five hundred watts on each side. Fabulous sound. 433 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: He cranked the monitors right up loud, and I could 434 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: see that Jack was very Jack I was very uncomfortable 435 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: with that, and he was like, oh my god, no 436 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: you And then they went back out in the room 437 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: and Jack said to me, I can't I can't do this. 438 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: Kit Lambert was producing, by the way. It was a 439 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: crazy maniac but I love I loved watching him. I 440 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: learned a lot as he would conduct the band like 441 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: it was an orchestra because his father was a very 442 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: famous conductor in England. So Jack said to me, I 443 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: can't do this. This is this is awful. There's no Bruce, 444 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: there's no soul. So I said, well, you know, you 445 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: get through it, Jack, don't worry. He said, no, I'm 446 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: not going to get through it at all. You're going 447 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: to get through it, huh. He said, yeah, he goes. 448 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: I want you to go into the production room, which 449 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: was basically in the control room, there was a wall. 450 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: Sep bring it, he said, call me up on the phone, 451 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: name at the at the board and tell me something 452 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: terrible has happened that I will have to leave. I said, 453 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: why don't you just tell them something? He goes, no, 454 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: I need to react to this. So Jack Adams lived 455 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: on a houseboat and on the seventy ninth Street Pier, 456 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: Hudson River. So I called them up and I was 457 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: really quiet because you could hear me in the room 458 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: if you care to listen. And the phone rang and 459 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: Jack picked up. But I said Jack, he said, yeah, 460 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: said I have something really terrible to tell you. Pete 461 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: Townshend was still in the room, and Jack kind of 462 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: was obvious that he was loud, and he went something terrible. 463 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: What happened? Now, Pete and Keith they're looking at him. 464 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: And I say to Jack, your houseboat's on fire and 465 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: it's sinking in the Hudson River. And then he repeated 466 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: that my houseboat's on fire and it's thinking that, and 467 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: then he kind of put in, like in quotations, I 468 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: live in a houseboat. And then he said my dog. 469 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: He didn't have a dog, but he threw that in 470 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: for a little extra stuff, I have to go. The 471 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: other engineer will take over. I took the reins. The 472 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: first song that we recorded was I Won't Get Fooled Again, 473 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: live vocals, and it was hair raising, and we recorded 474 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: on ten tracks. At some point the front office heard 475 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: that I was in charge, and they were a little worried, 476 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: but they sent somebody down to keep an eye on me, 477 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: and they sent me an assistant. And it was good, exactly. 478 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: Got to be really good friends with those guys. And 479 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: after the gigs they would say, this would be like 480 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: one o'clock in the morning and they go and now 481 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: we're going to go out and have some fun. Okay, 482 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: you're going with us, kid, Okay. So I would go 483 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: out with them and we would meet at the Navarro Hotel, 484 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: which was on Central Park South, small hotel, boutique hotel. 485 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: They had the whole ninth floor, which was maybe eight rooms. 486 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: This way it kept them away from regular clients, and 487 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: Keith and Pete had the two front suites which faced 488 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: Central Park beautiful and on the ninth floor. Now this 489 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,239 Speaker 1: is a building that had high ceilings, and so I 490 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: would go there and we would meet in Pete's room 491 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: and then go out just some after hours place or 492 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: just you know, they knew all these spots. I was 493 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: in New Yorker. I had no idea these studies existed. 494 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: You know, they get a couple of limos and off 495 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: we'd go. But anyway, every night I would go up 496 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: there Keith. I mean, everybody came through the door into 497 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: Pete's sweet but Keith would open the window on his 498 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: suite and crawl across a ledge outside the building and 499 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: then open up Pete's window and climb in. This is 500 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: like nine very high floors, and no one thought that 501 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: was unusual except me. Everyone was, hey, Keith, what are 502 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: we doing to And I'd be like, oh my god, 503 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: that's a little bit I saw. I ran into Pete 504 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: at Saar at a rehearsal just a few years ago. 505 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: He was coming to a meeting and he had a 506 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: girl with him that he was producing, and I ran 507 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: into him. I said, hey, Pete, I mean it's been years, 508 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: I said, remember me and Jack? And he goes, seeah, 509 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: Jack Douglas, Oh yeah, wow, spent a lifetime since I've 510 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: seen you. And I said yeah yeah. And he introduced 511 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: me to the artist that he was with, and he 512 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: introduced me. He said a thousand years ago. He said 513 00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: to her, we worked with Jack and made him famous. Thanks, thanks, Pete. Thanks, 514 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: It's true, that's outstanding. Yeah. 515 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 3: So then it's nineteen sixty excuse me, nineteen seventy one. 516 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: Well, sixty nine is when I went to record plants. 517 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,719 Speaker 1: The very first project, interestingly enough, that I worked on 518 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: as a general worker because we had the move tapes, 519 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: was Woodstock. Can you imagine the van would pull up 520 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: with the tapes from the show that we're recorded live, 521 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: and then I would bring him to the various studios 522 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: where the artists were fixing the tapes. You ran into 523 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: Hendrix and Rosby, Still's Nasher all in there. It's amazing. 524 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I'm in the right place here. But yeah, 525 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: go ahead, Well, well excuse me. Seventy one you would engineer, 526 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: imagine one of the engineers. 527 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me about your first of a lifetime encounter 528 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 3: with John. 529 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, I was an incredible Beatle fan, 530 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: had been for years, I mean just just short of fanatic, 531 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: really loved them. I even went to Liverpool in sixty 532 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: five on a tramp steamer and bought Rubber Soul the 533 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: week it came out that winter November December, bought it 534 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: in Liverpool. I got deported for a lot of reasons 535 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: for playing in bands without a work permit, from escaping 536 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: from a ship, blah blah blah. I made a lot 537 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: of noise, and I was in all the newspapers and 538 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: even in the Mirror in London. I was stories about 539 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: my adventures. But I was on the front pages of 540 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: the Liverpool Inspection, in particular the Liverpool Echo, which is 541 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: the big newspaper in Liverpool. And I got deported and 542 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: changed mind you really, they won't take any chances that 543 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: was going to escape again. And that was in sixty five. 544 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: So now go forward so many years and I'm at 545 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: record plant working and John is down the hall in 546 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: another room with everybody doing overdubs, and you know, working 547 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: on Imagine. He'd come over from England where they'd done 548 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: a bunch of tracks, and now they were doing some 549 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: more tracks and doing all the overdubs. My job, because 550 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: I was a good editor, was down the hall in 551 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: another small room, was to edit these some of these 552 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: tracks and prepare them for more for multi tracking, because 553 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: there were eight tracks and they wanted to go to 554 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: sixteen track. There were handwritten notes from John. You know, 555 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: don't edit the masters. Make sure you edit the copies 556 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: that you're going to make when you're going to edit here. Anyway, 557 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: I was hearing most of the album before anybody else 558 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: was hearing it because I was editing transferring. About four 559 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: or five days into this whole project, the door opens 560 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: and John comes into the room and nearly peeded myself 561 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 1: because I didn't think I would be having contact with him. 562 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: I thought I'm good enough having this gig as an editor. 563 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: And he sits down. He says, okay, if I hang 564 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 1: out in here. So I'm just looking for a place 565 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: that's not so noisy. I knew he was, and I 566 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: figured he was trying to get away from Phil, who 567 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: had a terrible reputation specter that is. And so he 568 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: sat on a couch on the other side of a 569 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: console so I only could see his feet up on 570 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: the glass and cigarette smoke. And I said, I'm editing 571 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: your stuff, and he was like, yeah, okay, thanks, so 572 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: you're doing a great job. He just kind of blew 573 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: me off and he sat there and smoked, and about 574 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: five minutes into this process of me working quietly, I 575 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: said to him I've been to the liver and his 576 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: head popped up and he said really. He said, where 577 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: are you from? And I said, I'm born and raised 578 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: in New York City? So why would you want to 579 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: go to Liverpool? Everybody there wants to come here, including me, 580 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: and you know it's it's not a great place, not 581 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: a tourist place. I said, well, I was a musician, 582 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: and you know, I really wanted to swim into Mersey. 583 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,239 Speaker 1: I wanted to know everything about the music scene there, 584 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: and which was really cool because I got to hang 585 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: in the original Caravin Club, which was amazing thing to 586 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: do back then. So he looked at me and he said, well, 587 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: how did that work out? And I said, well, good 588 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: and bad. I said bad, I got deported, but good. 589 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: I made a lot of noise before I did. And 590 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: he looked at me and he said, were you one 591 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: of the crazy Yanks that was in aman newspapers And 592 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, that was me, because it's me and 593 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: my buddy I talked to going with me get another 594 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: guitar player. He said, you know, we looked at the 595 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: pictures of these two guys on the front page of 596 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: our newspaper the week that we put out an album 597 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: that should have been just us all over the front page, 598 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: these two Yanks making all this noise in Liverpool. And 599 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, that was me. And he said, and 600 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: in one of the pictures that was on the front 601 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: page as my guitar les Paul Custom. He said to me, right, well, 602 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: he remembered that because that made the impression on them. 603 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: He said to me, you still had that less Paul. 604 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 1: He said, no, it's a long gone. He said, I 605 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: can't believe all the places I walk into and there's 606 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: this guy I'm meeting now. That was someone that you know, 607 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: we laughed about, you know, in Liverpool and did all 608 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: this stuff. He said, what are you doing? I said, 609 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm editing your stuff because you're an engineer. 610 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: I said yes. He goes, okay, you're on the project. 611 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: He said, Yoko is going to know that there's some 612 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: deeper meaning in that's meeting you. You know. After a 613 00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: session or two, he said, dud, where do you live? 614 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: And I told him in the village. He said, we 615 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: do too. We're on Bank Street. Let me give you 616 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: a ride home. And then one time on the way 617 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: down to the village, you see the only place where 618 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: we can get a late bite to eat. And I said, sure, 619 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: I know a million places where I can get you 620 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: in a back door. And suddenly he asked me for 621 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: my phone number. He called me up. He said, I listen, 622 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: I have to go to this party and there's going 623 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: to be all these people there. It was Abbie Hoffman 624 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: and that crew. He said, just come with me because 625 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: I don't really know them, and you can watch my back. 626 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: I started hanging with him and we became friends, and 627 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: then he said to me, listen, I want you to 628 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: do these Yoko records. Okay. So I met with Yoko 629 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: and she said, what makes you think you can do 630 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: my records? And I said to her, because I was 631 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: really an avant guarde John Cage Fan and all these 632 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: ourgard jazz guys. And I said to her, because I 633 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: don't care if when you play the piano you're inside 634 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: it or outside of it. She said, that's good. That's good. 635 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: And so I did just all these records with her. 636 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes John would be producing them, or he'd be sitting 637 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: next to me while we did them. It was a 638 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: good run with her, and because of that trust, that's 639 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: why I ended up producing. Because they both trusted me 640 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: while while I was doing the Muscle of Love album, 641 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: we were out in La, which he told me to do. 642 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: He said, come out to La, your producer, you can 643 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: do it, or wherever you want. And Warners is in La. 644 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: Still bring it out there. I'm out there. That was 645 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: his lost weekend, and so I became one of the 646 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: original Hollywood vampires. I was doing that Nallice too, whom 647 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: you know I frequently I drove the getaway car. That 648 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: was my gig, get them out of trouble. Interesting and 649 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: I had a long, long relationship with him. I miss him, 650 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: and I think the world is it would be a 651 00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: different place that he lived. 652 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 3: If you could describe his creative process, what would it be. 653 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: He worked on songs for months, if not years. He 654 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: had a germ. He would work on it. And you 655 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: know when you see that film he brought he brought 656 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: the Jackson film. He brought stuff to the studio to 657 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: work on. Here's something I have. He always was preparing, 658 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: He was always writing. I mean some of the songs 659 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: on Double Fantasy were years old that he had demoed 660 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: numbers of times, and so he was well prepared. The 661 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: thing that he had no patience for lollygagging in the studio, 662 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 1: you know, which is why he hated Phil. Phil would want, 663 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, fifty takes, whereas for me and I would 664 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: always have him do a live vocals frequently within the 665 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 1: first five takes. You had it, and he knew it, 666 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: and I knew and the musicians knew it as well. 667 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't and I was always a step ahead of 668 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: him the whole time we were working, and so he 669 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: loved that. He liked to be, you know, somebody was 670 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,960 Speaker 1: always prepared for him to do what he wanted to do. 671 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: And I think that's why we got along. In the 672 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: last few years before he passed away, I became very 673 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: good friends with Jeff Emeric and he would be over 674 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: my house for dinner. We would do mixes together. We 675 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 1: had a lot of time when we talked about John 676 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: and he said to me, I wish I knew the 677 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,080 Speaker 1: John that you talk about, because he knew the angry 678 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: John from the Apparently he could get very angry and 679 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: the Beatle I know that alcohol didn't it was not 680 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: good for John at all. It was kind of he 681 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: would get angry that I saw while we were in California. 682 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: He was just he was just amazing that whole summer 683 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 1: we were working on that record, and then later into 684 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: the fall, while we were doing Walking into Nice. 685 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 3: You ran into these guys from Boston in seventy four 686 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 3: named Aarro Smith. How many How many years were shaved 687 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 3: off of your life from beginning that ride with them? 688 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: Ten years? Ten years were shaved off my life, Not 689 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: those years, but later years. I mean I was thirty 690 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 1: years sober. But there's there's a lot of you knows. 691 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 1: As their drug got used, you just got worse. I 692 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: mean I was always like the straight guy, you know, 693 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: I thought to keep this session together when it was over. 694 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: When the session was over, maybe I was smoking a 695 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: joint when it was over. But yeah, as their drug 696 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: use got worse, they they exposed me to a few 697 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: things that later in my life became a problem. And 698 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: then so yeah, I lost some time, but none of 699 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: it while I was working with them. 700 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 3: Now, how often did crisis management enter into your job 701 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,919 Speaker 3: description working with them? 702 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: It depends on what you call crisis management. You know, 703 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: get your wings, toys in the attic rocks, they were 704 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: all they were all really creative periods for the band, 705 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: and and they welcomed my input. So that I was 706 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: like a member of the band. We did months sometimes 707 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: of pre production and and it wasn't till we were 708 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: doing Draw the Line that it became became a problem 709 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: because they would stay in there. We were in a 710 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,760 Speaker 1: had been a nunnery up statement work in Westchester County actually, 711 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: and they all had their own rooms, and frequently some 712 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: of them wouldn't come out of their rooms for three 713 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: four days. That was That was the crisis. As far 714 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: as working with them or having fights or not so much. No, 715 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, I've always been the good politician. You know, 716 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,359 Speaker 1: my thing is listen to the band first. First of all. 717 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: You know, my job is to make a band's dreams 718 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: come true, you know, not mine. And you know they 719 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,720 Speaker 1: understood that. That's the way it was. And so although 720 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: we didn't have to talk about it, that's the way 721 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: I approached all of that stuff with them. We worked 722 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: hard together, you know. I mean, sure Stephen would come 723 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: in and say I could sing that better, and I 724 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: was saying, I don't know if you can. But if 725 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: he said he could sing it better, I went with it. 726 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: You co wrote Kings and Queens, didn't you? Yes, did 727 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: you say? That's at the point where the ban wasn't writing. 728 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: I mean I contributed a lot as a writer previous 729 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: to that, but I always thought that's my job as 730 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 1: a producer. You know. People told me many years later 731 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,759 Speaker 1: that was a big mistake, but I don't. I don't 732 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 1: think so, because now every producer is a writer. You know. 733 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: It's like that's where you get your publishing and blah 734 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But at that point I had to 735 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,360 Speaker 1: start writing because they were losing their productivity. I like 736 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,279 Speaker 1: Kings and Greens. I think it's called Oh I love 737 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: that one. I love that too. 738 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 3: That's a great one, but so many great ones. You know, 739 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 3: being in Boston for so long and part of the 740 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,439 Speaker 3: Boston scene, you got a big fan of Aerosmith right here. 741 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: Oh great, Yeah, I'm still a big fan. The peace 742 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 1: Out tour should be interesting. When they were doing Vegas, 743 00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,919 Speaker 1: the residency in Vegas, my son was in the band 744 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: as a percussionist. My son, Colin is a Latin jazz guy, 745 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: a couple of Grammy nominations as a jazz artists. But 746 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: Joe liked to work with him on his solo stuff, 747 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: and so when they did this residency, he wanted him 748 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: to play all the tambourines and congas and bells, and 749 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: so that's what he was doing. Could sing too. So 750 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 1: what are you working on now, Jack, geez, because I 751 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 1: have a label. Yeah. Well, the first act that we 752 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: signed was the Detroit Youth Choir and they, of course 753 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,200 Speaker 1: for huge hits on America's Got Talent twice they were 754 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: huge hits. And and so I produced that record in 755 00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:01,439 Speaker 1: Detroit called rock Spell. I called it Detroit Rock Band 756 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: with this youth choir singing classic R and B s. 757 00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: It's available on our site. And then the next artist 758 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: I signed was Robin Taylor Xander, who's Robin Xander's son. 759 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: That album is out now. We just dropped acoustic and 760 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,720 Speaker 1: acoustic version of I and Low, although the single version 761 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: of it is already out in the whole record is 762 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: available on every platform. Detroit Youth Choir won us a 763 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: gospel about two weeks ago, won us a gospel version 764 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: of the Grammys for the record that we did, so 765 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,239 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. And last week I was in Los 766 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: Angeles talking with Disney because Disney has picked up the 767 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:50,160 Speaker 1: Detroit Youth Choir for a miniseries called Choir. And so 768 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: we have the record and they have the the miniseries 769 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,799 Speaker 1: could be good combination. I've been doing a lot of 770 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:07,720 Speaker 1: film scores. I've got on personality crists. I just worked 771 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:12,520 Speaker 1: with Maurice Gersse and Ron Howard on a Personality Crisis 772 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: One Night Only, which is on Showtime. Now. I've got 773 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: two films going into the festival circuit that I composed 774 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,359 Speaker 1: the music for. One is called The Trust in Love 775 00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: Contemporary Ron Tom takes place in Malibu, and the other 776 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: one is The Carol Dotas Story, which is the documentary 777 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,560 Speaker 1: about the first topless dancer in San Francisco, which is cool. 778 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: I just last night watched the completed film with my 779 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 1: score and it's pretty cool. It's amazing and what footage 780 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,799 Speaker 1: they have of that period that she was, what was 781 00:49:53,840 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 1: happening in San Francisco from nineteen sixty four through the 782 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 1: early seventies a lot San Francisco. It was amazing. And 783 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: then I've got an artist named Ellie Low that is 784 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,399 Speaker 1: I'll be in the studio in Los Angeles with her 785 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: in this coming month producing her. She's really amazing. She's 786 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 1: out of Atlanta. And then my partner on we have 787 00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: two labels under one umbrella. I have Confidential Records in 788 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,400 Speaker 1: New York City dot com. Nay, that's Confidential Records NYC 789 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:37,239 Speaker 1: dot com a good website too. And my partner under 790 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:42,960 Speaker 1: the same umbrella is Make Records, and he's a little 791 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: bit different than me. He's timing members of Ghosts and 792 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,560 Speaker 1: he's got a group called Silver Plains. It's a little 793 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,200 Speaker 1: harder rock than what I usually do. Well, I produced 794 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 1: outside acts request for some group in England called Xander 795 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: and the Pirates. I might, I may do that. I 796 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: may do it. And and I today got a message 797 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: from a guy who has since we were speaking of 798 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: the who has the license for all of this, uh 799 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: has all this ant whistle incomplete material that the family 800 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,400 Speaker 1: has licensed to him to complete. So that could be interesting. 801 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,800 Speaker 1: I started listening to it today. You know that's keeping 802 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 1: me very busy. All of this, I mean, the label 803 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,279 Speaker 1: keeps me really busy and on the go all the time. 804 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: People said, you want, you know, actually retire. What am 805 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: I going to do? You know, I'm qualified to be 806 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,279 Speaker 1: the bag boy at stopping shop. Even though right right 807 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 1: up on the wall up there you see John Jack Douglas, 808 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: doctor of music. It is right up there on the wall. 809 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: But that'll get you a bag boy job, And now 810 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,239 Speaker 1: there aren't any bag boy job shook usaw I made it, 811 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 1: and you got to pack at yourself, so I would 812 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:07,279 Speaker 1: basically be unemployed. So I like what I'm doing. 813 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,920 Speaker 3: I am so grateful for our friend Drew Lane for 814 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 3: connecting us out of Detroit, and I so glad that 815 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 3: you've been on taking a walk. 816 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for the stories and for the music. Jack Douglass, amazing, 817 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,840 Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Good to see you. 818 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 819 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,200 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts