WEBVTT - Monsters 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.800 get your podcasts. So how does a half American, half 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.880 Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans there's absolutely no journalism experience, right, 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.040 the biggest story of the eighties, That's what Journalista is 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:23.360 all about. I'm a woman, wife beater T shirt, not 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:28.080 wearing a brawl curses like a sailor. I got balls 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.800 bigger than any man. Dan Rather used to call me 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:34.440 his secret weapon. Listen to Journalista every Tuesday on the 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.600 iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.039 They say history is written by the victors, but you 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.360 know what they left out A hell of a lot 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.680 of juicy stuff. Ah, we all know who invented that, right, 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.640 we'll think again. Truth is Alexander Graham Bell stole the 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.520 idea for the telephone and then claimed it as his own. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.800 We're going to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.040 didn't know you need to know. Listen to the Backstory 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.480 with me Patty Steele twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:12.000 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. After the 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.359 massacre occurred, but before her arrest, mother Angela Wagner took 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.600 to social media to speak out about the victims. Here's 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:25.040 an excerpt from one of those posts. What has happened 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.399 to us in the past few weeks has been devastating 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.600 and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.000 Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:38.639 Her laws still hurts to this day. We want justice 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.480 like everyone else. Let's try to find the real monsters 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:54.079 who've done this. Turns out she was the monster. This 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.200 is the Pip did Massacre. A production of Katie Studios 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:05.240 and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode two Monsters Courtney Armstrong, a 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.720 television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane, 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:14.000 and preparation for this season, we've been speaking to many 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:17.120 sources in and around Pike County who would not go 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:21.000 on the record before, probably because they were scared, but 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.000 now they are ready to talk. In some cases they 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:28.320 were fearing retribution, including those close to Angela. There are 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.360 so many perspectives on Mom Angela Wagner, and it begs 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.080 the question is it possible for a human being to 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:42.040 be all things at once. Throughout all of these conversations 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.840 and interviews, we've learned a lot more about the victims, 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:49.720 the Rodent family, and the alleged killers, the Wagners. This 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:54.680 includes other theories and information that goes generations deep, and 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.040 some of it has far reaching and sometimes nefarious tentacles. 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.200 Here's what we know about Angela Wagner. She had a 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.080 mother named Rita Newcome. I actually met her in person, 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.040 was in her home just days after she was released. 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.360 And she was married to a man named Pug Carter, 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.120 Angela's father. They at some point divorced. Rita remarried and 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.799 had a second child, twenty years younger, her half brother, 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.000 Chris Newcomb. Chris has agreed to speak with us for 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.040 the podcast on the record for the very first time. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.159 Has now a good time? Do you have a minute? Well, 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.200 what would you wanting to know? You are? Angela's half 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.839 brother explained that all to me, like how you're related 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.000 and how much younger you are. Angela is my half 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.240 sister from my mom's first marriage. We got the same mom. 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.839 She is twenty years older than I am. Well, here's 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.600 my backstory that I can give for your radio thing. 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.000 I grew up with George and Jake. Like my brothers. 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.120 I was always closer to George than I was with Jake. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.440 George would do anything in the world for anybody out 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.680 have never in my life thought this out of him. Jake, 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.120 on the other hand, I'd have never thought it out 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.839 of him either. But he's always been a little odd. 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.120 I mean, he just always has been. My sister met 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:19.599 here never really got along that well. Jake ain't no 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.560 better in my opinion, and I got nothing for him 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.920 at all. Billy's Billy. He's always been Billy. I mean, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:28.960 everybody was trying to say, and he might have been 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:30.960 the brains of the operation that some bitches stam time. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:32.719 He couldn't hit the ground with his hat three tries. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.200 So you didn't really grow up with her. I never 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.240 grew up with her at all, hardly. I mean when 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.760 I wasn't even a year old, I was like nine, 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.920 ten months old, she got pregnant with George, her oldest boy, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:49.920 which would be my nephew. How long did you see 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.880 any of them? George, Jake, Candel or Billy. And back 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.200 when I was a kid, hello, I was always I 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:55.600 had to go over and spend the night for two 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.080 three weeks at a time. Oh wow, Now I spent 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.040 several summers over there. And when we got older and 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.440 stuff like that, I'd see George when ever he swung 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.200 by or he called and say, hey, we're gonna go hunting, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.960 or we're gonna move fishing, so we'd all go out 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.760 and do that. So you are grew up with Jake 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:18.160 and George being your peers. Oh yeah, yeah, we grew 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.159 up more like brothers than we did uncle and nephews. 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.000 I mean, we as close as hell. When these kids. 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.160 She'd treat me as one of the kids. But it just, 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.359 I don't know, it seemed cold. Whenever she had to 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.320 do something for me. It wasn't like a like a 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.880 warming feeling, like you know, here I want I want 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:34.520 to help you have fun, or I want to help 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.480 you out do this. It was just cold. Was she 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.880 liked that with the boys too? Are just yell? Not 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.240 really just made Mainly, I don't think she liked me 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.159 that much. Why why do you think that is? I 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:46.800 don't know. I didn't like her either, so I kind 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.960 of worked out. I never looked into it. My sister 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.919 was very controlling person. Whenever I was around. She always 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:54.720 tried to control every aspect that I did, and when 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.080 I pretty much told her, go to hell and that 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.479 was the end of it. But I mean she pretty 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.359 much control every aspect of their life, right down to 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.840 their social media, their Facebook, their message or Twitter, they're 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.880 fucking uh. Their dating sites. They had dating sites, and 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.960 she actually had the information for their dating sites. She 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:21.400 had to passwords to it. No. Yes, So when you 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.040 were a kid and you would spend summers there or 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.760 extended periods of time, Angela was your sister. But I 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.880 imagine treated you like a mom. You know, should probably 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:31.920 helped cook for you and treated you like one of 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.120 the boys. Was she kind to you that or was 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.640 she always judge? Uh? Kind of a mixture of both. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.920 She was kind of judge, kind of fake. What do 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.400 you mean by that? It just seemed like she would 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.480 be nice, but it was all like an act because 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.000 she always told me she said I'll never amount to anything. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:51.520 And she didn't tell just me that, she told other 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.600 people that. She said that I'd never amount to nothing 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:55.360 and I'd probably end up spending the rest of my 0:07:55.360 --> 0:08:00.680 life in jail. I almost wanted I answer a phone 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.600 call from her just to laugh at her. Wow. You 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.120 mentioned you and Angela were raised differently. How would you 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:08.840 describe how you were raised and how would you say 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.440 how she was raised. I wouldn't around whenever she was 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.600 being raised, you know, I wouldn't even have thought then 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:19.160 mom was still married to her dad, Pug or Eddie 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.160 Edward Carter. He was always a good old guy. I 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.920 knew him right, Will do you like Pug? Oh? I 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.960 thought the world Pug Eddie Carter, better known as Pug, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.880 was Angela Wagner's father. We didn't know much about him 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.120 or Angela's upbringing and how that might have shaped the 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:40.520 person she is until now. Here's Jeff speaking to an 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.920 anonymous friend of the Carter family who reached out to us. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.480 Your message is really interesting to me. I would love 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.960 to just kind of like hear all of it, and 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.760 now you found this information out on what your take 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.360 on all of it is. I grew up in South Webster, 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.400 where the Wagners came back from Alaska's where they moved to, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.480 and the actual house that they lived in was the 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:04.800 house of her dad. I knew him as a Pug Carter. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.960 He always wore this like metal brace and he walked 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.920 with a limp. What I heard from my dad was 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.520 that he would climb electric poles and steal copper or 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.600 something off of the poles, and he'd gotten electric uted 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:20.560 and it affected his walking. When money would get tight, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.599 b block would go like pawn things a little, but 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:24.920 he ran like a I guess it would be an 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.800 illegal pawnshop where people would go take like small tools, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.000 lown equivament, you know, stuff like that. I think he'd 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.760 gotten in trouble for forjury. One time. People would take 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.199 their vehicle titles and pawned them to him for money, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.000 and he got to where he would like he would 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.360 forge the titles and sell the vehicles, so people were 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.600 like losing cars. So somebody eventually took him to court 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:48.200 for that, and he'd done that for several years before 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.079 he got in trouble for him, and that's the reason 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.720 my dad quit feeling with him. Explain that to me. 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.840 So I would take my car title and sell it 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.880 to him. He would pawn it him. So you would 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.680 give him your title and he would give you a 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.880 couple hundred dollars and you'd pay it back on Once 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:04.640 you paid him back, you'd give you your title back. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.079 But then he started like selling the vehicles before people 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:12.199 had a chance to pay him back. The whole opioid 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.400 epidemics started around here, and I guess he'd gotten into 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.800 pills and stuff, and he would started selling drugs as 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.360 well as running this underground pawn shop he was doing. 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.839 There isn't a lot of information out there about Puck Carter, 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.880 but what we could find included a criminal record filled 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:36.400 with arrests for assault, receiving stolen property, and truck possession. 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.480 From what I remember is that there was like an 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.960 undercover seeing where the police were going to his house 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.000 and purchasing and selling drugs. So actual drug bust is 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:49.679 how he got caught. But the reason Michael Moran came 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.640 into is Michael Moran he was like the cheaper lawyer. 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.120 So if you were kind of poorer on like the 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:57.000 lower income level, he would work out a deal where 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:58.960 you didn't have to pay as much for a lawyer 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:00.920 like he was who all the poorer people went to. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:02.520 And I think that's really how he got to where 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.079 he could target prostitutes and stuffs because they were of 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.480 lower income and they could afford his services. It's not 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.440 a surprise to me that her dad had him as 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:16.480 a lawyer. It's important to note that the recollections that 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.200 Michael Moran was pot Carter's attorney is strictly the first 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:24.920 hand account of our anonymous source. Here's Stephanie and Jeff 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.520 We talked about Michael Moran in season two. He's an 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.000 attorney and a former city councilman in Portsmouth, which is 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.880 about twenty five miles south of Pike County. He had 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:41.160 multiple allegations against him, including sex trafficking, the disappearance of 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.800 several young women connected to him personally, and the possible 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.240 murder of another at the age of seventy five while 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:54.319 out on bail and awaiting trial for promoting prostitution, compelling prostitution, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.640 human trafficking, and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:05.560 Michael Moran died in November twenty twenty one. There's a 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.200 place called Big Bear Lake that has come up a 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.280 lot over the years in our research. It's this spot 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.400 not too far from Pike County that people go to 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.679 on vacation. Essentially, it's like a holiday location. We're going 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.000 to discuss this further, but it's also been alleged that 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:26.320 it's a spot where sex trafficking happens, drug trafficking happens, 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.640 and potentially there's a connection between Michael Moran and the 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:35.160 Wagner family. I have to be really honest, my mouth 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.880 dropped when we heard the connection between Pug Carter, Angela 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.880 Wagner's father, and Michael Moran. It's full circle. It just 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.880 further speaks to this idea that Pike County and the 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.600 surrounding area is where people in power continue to stay 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.679 in power by abusing other people. It also points to 0:12:53.720 --> 0:13:00.559 a larger plot here. Angie was always really with her dad, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.000 Like I remember her being at her dad's often, like 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.720 she took care of her dad. What I've heard locally 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.320 is that's why they came back from Alaska's because Billy's 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.440 dad had died and her dad had died. They needed 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.720 to settle those estates, and then they ended up moving 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.640 into his house, to Plug's house, and that's where they 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:19.840 lived when they were arrested. Did you have any interaction 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.600 with them when they came back. No, nobody really knew 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.160 they were here until they were arrested. People would be like, oh, 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.959 I think I saw Angela and Jake at Jackson Walmart, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.280 which is a completely different county. I think they were 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.200 going there so they weren't noticed, And everybody's like, no, 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.000 there's no way. Then all of a sudden they were 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.960 arrested and we're like, oh, well, maybe it was true. 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:42.719 They were back into him. But if you drive by 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.079 Plug's house, like the Wagner's vehicles are still there. It's 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.080 still as if it was the day they were arrested. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.120 Nothing has been best with or moved. Somebody cuts the grass, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.520 but as far as like their stuff still being in there, 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.000 it is still there. Can you paint the picture for me? 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.800 So like a brick ranch home with you know, like 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.640 a big gravel lot and there's still kind of stuff out. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.120 It still kind of looks like it did one plug 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.760 O didn't. But there's like vehicles that outside they have, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:10.280 like this really big Dodge Ram Diesel truck. When you 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.280 have something like that around here, it made you have money. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.120 It's interesting that that stuff wasn't seized. Yeah, we kind 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.360 of get like an eerie feeling when you drive either too. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.720 It's like, oh, there's so much bad stuff that's happened 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.240 in that one house as far as like crime goes. Yeah, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.400 I mean that's where they were hiding out and potentially 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:36.200 they were there planning those murders. So we're going to 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:41.320 take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.400 I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.840 Girl Friends Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:52.600 a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:58.800 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.520 he was do He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.360 He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:12.600 went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.800 the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.040 us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:22.760 to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.880 to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.840 him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.760 him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.080 I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.440 listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.880 or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody, we know there 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.320 are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.360 one we would love for you to check out. It 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.400 is called The Penpals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.120 Rory Scovell. We are both stand up comedians where actors 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.280 were writers, but now most of all, we are your penpals. 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.200 Every single episode we get two letters that we read 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.160 from our listeners are new pen pals. It can be 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.520 about anything going on in their life. And sometimes we're 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.320 also joined by guests like Will Farrell. I'm gonna bring 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:07.880 you up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.520 you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.120 burn Well, this is West Hollywood. We keep it clean. 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:17.680 J J. Is that considered? Brian, I'm just showing you 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.720 that my mind is quick, if not that funny. And 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.800 Mandy Moore, We're all crossing the line together. Listen to 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.800 the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.160 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:32.920 your podcast, and sirely your new pen pals Daniel Van 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:41.840 Kirk and Rory Scobel. Hi, I'm Dalia Wild and I 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.400 want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast, 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.560 The Afters to make Up. It's called The Oh My 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:54.640 God Particle Show or OMGPS for short. How you like me? 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.600 Always wondering about the universe, like what the universe is 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.760 made of? What is in the atmosphere is of alien 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.880 punic and you know, how are we even here to 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:06.960 even ask those questions, so road trip I wanted to 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.280 get some answers directly from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.040 We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed when the 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.840 universe was about a trillions of a second old. I 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.320 found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is working 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:26.280 together to get their experiment working. I've got to doctor 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.560 brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.320 Listen to the Oh My God Particle Show on the 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.720 I Heard radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:43.920 your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. People from LA 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.760 will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, and 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.919 they won't lift a finger to help you. To LA, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.720 people represent vapidity stops that like oh the best GOLs 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.760 like oh Shoot. As someone born and raised here, I 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:02.159 can tell you there's much more to LA in. My 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.600 name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of a 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.840 new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. There's ten 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.920 different stories about LA and the real people who make 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:17.320 up this city. What did you listen to my message? 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:19.800 Who were just trying to get bought. I think I 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.000 was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:29.080 each other. I'm going to be a father. Yea, Are 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:33.359 you feeling? This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love? Listen 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.040 to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:46.480 you get your podcast. Sammy Joe grew up in the 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.200 piked In area and was closed with both the Wagner 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:55.880 and the Rodent families. Sammy spent a lot of time 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.679 at the Wagner's home, where she found Angela to be 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:03.880 not so much motherly as controlling. Here she is speaking 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:08.880 with Stephanie. I grew up with the Wagner and then 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:13.080 I dated Frankie wrote, where were you when you heard 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.040 all of the news about the murders. I was standing 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.560 in my living room, and I lived not tremendously far away, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:26.560 but I heard all the sirens and everything going on. 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:28.920 The next thing, you know, my Facebook was all lit 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.160 up with family members found dead, and I'm thinking, there 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:37.879 ain't no way we all talk about Angela Wagner, the 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:42.719 mom of killers, as being in the mastermind. I wouldn't 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:48.080 put a pastor if Angela said jumped and you didn't 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:53.080 say how high Angela got mapped, especially with Jake. Jake 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.600 was her baby. Like if Angela didn't like me, Jake 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.720 wasn't allowed to like me that week. I didn't come 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.840 from the right family, or I did her wrong in 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.040 her eyes or something. What about Billy would you describe him? 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.120 What was he like? He was a type of guy 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.320 that he could crack a joke and you would laugh 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.840 for days. My dad had a stroke, a massive brainbling 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.840 a stroke, and I remember writing Angela and I said, hey, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.680 this is Samantha Brian Frederick's daughter. I need to get 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.639 ahold of Billy. And Billy got ahold of me, and 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.200 I told him my fight listened the house that we're 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.600 living in the floor falling through. They will not let 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.560 my dad come home and let me get the floor fit. 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.919 Billy showed up with plywood feed for my animals. He 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:41.320 had bought me cinnamon products, a shampoo conditioner, like he 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.960 was there to help, like in his mom. I got 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:46.919 ahold of Billy and I was. I listened my mom's 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.399 behind on the electric bill. We're in disconnect very literally 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.119 shutting us off. We need a good amount of money. 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.560 And Frederika got ahold of us, and she paid our 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.880 electric bill. They wasn't bad people. I mean they're bad 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:06.000 people now, but I honestly am my opinion. I don't 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.359 think they were all involved. I think there was other 0:21:08.400 --> 0:21:16.200 people involved under Angela's demand. Right, Is it possible that 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.320 they weren't even there and that maybe other people were 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:25.399 there that night? In my opinion, yes, I think they know, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:31.000 but they won't speak about it. I think the boys 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.040 know what happened, and if they speak about it, they'll 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:48.720 be dead. And that's my opinion. Jake and George was 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.560 always homeschooled, like they were never in public schools. The 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.560 public systems that Angela was not good enough for her boy, 0:21:56.119 --> 0:22:00.879 so her teaching her kids was better. I don't know 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.840 how much better that was, but it was teaching them 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:09.360 pretty much. What Angela said goes like she puts off 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:10.960 the vibe of like if she said you're going to 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:13.840 rob a bank and you tell her no, like she 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:20.720 gets scary. I love the boys to death. They're a 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:24.520 little weird, but I love them to death. I remember 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.399 decades ago we all went to the bull riding thing 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.880 and Billy and her got my little argument. I've never 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.240 seen a grown man in an argument shut up so 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.160 fast in my life, like the argument was over within seconds. 0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:46.760 It was controlling, is what it was. And have you 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:48.760 been in the house when all of them were home 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.919 at the same time. Yeah, the house was always quiet, 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:58.119 very quiet. Normally would be Billy sitting there in a 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:02.199 chair grinding his teeth, just sitting there watching TV. That 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.200 would be like the living room area. Angela was normally 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:09.199 in their cooking, and then off all that in the 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:13.280 bag was the boys' room. To the left was Georgia's room, 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:16.679 until the right was Jake's room. Of course, typical boys, 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.240 you're going to have to your heads and guns in there. 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:25.960 And that's pretty much the house. I can't remember a 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.640 time that they were one of the houses burnt down 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.239 and they were living in a shack and they were 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.520 all cramped up in this little living room area and 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:36.560 I'm standing there by the door with my dad. It 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:42.040 was so quiet you could hear a pin drop. As 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:45.919 a reminder, this is Sammy Joe's recollection of events. I 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:48.480