1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. So how does a half American, half 20 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans there's absolutely no journalism experience, right, 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: the biggest story of the eighties, That's what Journalista is 22 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: all about. I'm a woman, wife beater T shirt, not 23 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: wearing a brawl curses like a sailor. I got balls 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: bigger than any man. Dan Rather used to call me 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: his secret weapon. Listen to Journalista every Tuesday on the 26 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. 27 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: They say history is written by the victors, but you 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: know what they left out A hell of a lot 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: of juicy stuff. Ah, we all know who invented that, right, 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: we'll think again. Truth is Alexander Graham Bell stole the 31 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: idea for the telephone and then claimed it as his own. 32 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: We're going to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you 33 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: didn't know you need to know. Listen to the Backstory 34 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: with me Patty Steele twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, 35 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. After the 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: massacre occurred, but before her arrest, mother Angela Wagner took 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: to social media to speak out about the victims. Here's 38 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: an excerpt from one of those posts. What has happened 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 1: to us in the past few weeks has been devastating 40 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. 42 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: Her laws still hurts to this day. We want justice 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: like everyone else. Let's try to find the real monsters 44 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: who've done this. Turns out she was the monster. This 45 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: is the Pip did Massacre. A production of Katie Studios 46 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio, Season three, Episode two Monsters Courtney Armstrong, a 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane, 48 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: and preparation for this season, we've been speaking to many 49 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: sources in and around Pike County who would not go 50 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: on the record before, probably because they were scared, but 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: now they are ready to talk. In some cases they 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: were fearing retribution, including those close to Angela. There are 53 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: so many perspectives on Mom Angela Wagner, and it begs 54 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: the question is it possible for a human being to 55 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: be all things at once. Throughout all of these conversations 56 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: and interviews, we've learned a lot more about the victims, 57 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: the Rodent family, and the alleged killers, the Wagners. This 58 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: includes other theories and information that goes generations deep, and 59 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: some of it has far reaching and sometimes nefarious tentacles. 60 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: Here's what we know about Angela Wagner. She had a 61 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: mother named Rita Newcome. I actually met her in person, 62 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: was in her home just days after she was released. 63 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: And she was married to a man named Pug Carter, 64 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: Angela's father. They at some point divorced. Rita remarried and 65 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,799 Speaker 1: had a second child, twenty years younger, her half brother, 66 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: Chris Newcomb. Chris has agreed to speak with us for 67 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: the podcast on the record for the very first time. 68 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: Has now a good time? Do you have a minute? Well, 69 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: what would you wanting to know? You are? Angela's half 70 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: brother explained that all to me, like how you're related 71 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: and how much younger you are. Angela is my half 72 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: sister from my mom's first marriage. We got the same mom. 73 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: She is twenty years older than I am. Well, here's 74 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: my backstory that I can give for your radio thing. 75 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: I grew up with George and Jake. Like my brothers. 76 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: I was always closer to George than I was with Jake. 77 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: George would do anything in the world for anybody out 78 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: have never in my life thought this out of him. Jake, 79 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I'd have never thought it out 80 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: of him either. But he's always been a little odd. 81 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: I mean, he just always has been. My sister met 82 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: here never really got along that well. Jake ain't no 83 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: better in my opinion, and I got nothing for him 84 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: at all. Billy's Billy. He's always been Billy. I mean, 85 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: everybody was trying to say, and he might have been 86 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: the brains of the operation that some bitches stam time. 87 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: He couldn't hit the ground with his hat three tries. 88 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: So you didn't really grow up with her. I never 89 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: grew up with her at all, hardly. I mean when 90 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: I wasn't even a year old, I was like nine, 91 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: ten months old, she got pregnant with George, her oldest boy, 92 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: which would be my nephew. How long did you see 93 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: any of them? George, Jake, Candel or Billy. And back 94 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, hello, I was always I 95 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: had to go over and spend the night for two 96 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: three weeks at a time. Oh wow, Now I spent 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: several summers over there. And when we got older and 98 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: stuff like that, I'd see George when ever he swung 99 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: by or he called and say, hey, we're gonna go hunting, 100 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: or we're gonna move fishing, so we'd all go out 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: and do that. So you are grew up with Jake 102 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: and George being your peers. Oh yeah, yeah, we grew 103 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: up more like brothers than we did uncle and nephews. 104 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we as close as hell. When these kids. 105 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: She'd treat me as one of the kids. But it just, 106 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: I don't know, it seemed cold. Whenever she had to 107 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: do something for me. It wasn't like a like a 108 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: warming feeling, like you know, here I want I want 109 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: to help you have fun, or I want to help 110 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: you out do this. It was just cold. Was she 111 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: liked that with the boys too? Are just yell? Not 112 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: really just made Mainly, I don't think she liked me 113 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: that much. Why why do you think that is? I 114 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't like her either, so I kind 115 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: of worked out. I never looked into it. My sister 116 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: was very controlling person. Whenever I was around. She always 117 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: tried to control every aspect that I did, and when 118 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: I pretty much told her, go to hell and that 119 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: was the end of it. But I mean she pretty 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: much control every aspect of their life, right down to 121 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: their social media, their Facebook, their message or Twitter, they're 122 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: fucking uh. Their dating sites. They had dating sites, and 123 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: she actually had the information for their dating sites. She 124 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: had to passwords to it. No. Yes, So when you 125 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: were a kid and you would spend summers there or 126 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: extended periods of time, Angela was your sister. But I 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: imagine treated you like a mom. You know, should probably 128 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: helped cook for you and treated you like one of 129 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: the boys. Was she kind to you that or was 130 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: she always judge? Uh? Kind of a mixture of both. 131 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: She was kind of judge, kind of fake. What do 132 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: you mean by that? It just seemed like she would 133 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: be nice, but it was all like an act because 134 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: she always told me she said I'll never amount to anything. 135 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: And she didn't tell just me that, she told other 136 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: people that. She said that I'd never amount to nothing 137 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: and I'd probably end up spending the rest of my 138 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: life in jail. I almost wanted I answer a phone 139 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: call from her just to laugh at her. Wow. You 140 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: mentioned you and Angela were raised differently. How would you 141 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: describe how you were raised and how would you say 142 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: how she was raised. I wouldn't around whenever she was 143 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: being raised, you know, I wouldn't even have thought then 144 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: mom was still married to her dad, Pug or Eddie 145 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: Edward Carter. He was always a good old guy. I 146 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: knew him right, Will do you like Pug? Oh? I 147 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: thought the world Pug Eddie Carter, better known as Pug, 148 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner's father. We didn't know much about him 149 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: or Angela's upbringing and how that might have shaped the 150 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: person she is until now. Here's Jeff speaking to an 151 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: anonymous friend of the Carter family who reached out to us. 152 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: Your message is really interesting to me. I would love 153 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: to just kind of like hear all of it, and 154 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: now you found this information out on what your take 155 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: on all of it is. I grew up in South Webster, 156 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: where the Wagners came back from Alaska's where they moved to, 157 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: and the actual house that they lived in was the 158 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: house of her dad. I knew him as a Pug Carter. 159 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: He always wore this like metal brace and he walked 160 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: with a limp. What I heard from my dad was 161 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: that he would climb electric poles and steal copper or 162 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: something off of the poles, and he'd gotten electric uted 163 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: and it affected his walking. When money would get tight, 164 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 1: b block would go like pawn things a little, but 165 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: he ran like a I guess it would be an 166 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: illegal pawnshop where people would go take like small tools, 167 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: lown equivament, you know, stuff like that. I think he'd 168 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: gotten in trouble for forjury. One time. People would take 169 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 1: their vehicle titles and pawned them to him for money, 170 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: and he got to where he would like he would 171 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: forge the titles and sell the vehicles, so people were 172 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: like losing cars. So somebody eventually took him to court 173 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: for that, and he'd done that for several years before 174 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 1: he got in trouble for him, and that's the reason 175 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: my dad quit feeling with him. Explain that to me. 176 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: So I would take my car title and sell it 177 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: to him. He would pawn it him. So you would 178 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: give him your title and he would give you a 179 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: couple hundred dollars and you'd pay it back on Once 180 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you paid him back, you'd give you your title back. 181 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: But then he started like selling the vehicles before people 182 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: had a chance to pay him back. The whole opioid 183 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: epidemics started around here, and I guess he'd gotten into 184 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: pills and stuff, and he would started selling drugs as 185 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: well as running this underground pawn shop he was doing. 186 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: There isn't a lot of information out there about Puck Carter, 187 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: but what we could find included a criminal record filled 188 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: with arrests for assault, receiving stolen property, and truck possession. 189 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: From what I remember is that there was like an 190 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: undercover seeing where the police were going to his house 191 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: and purchasing and selling drugs. So actual drug bust is 192 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: how he got caught. But the reason Michael Moran came 193 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: into is Michael Moran he was like the cheaper lawyer. 194 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: So if you were kind of poorer on like the 195 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: lower income level, he would work out a deal where 196 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: you didn't have to pay as much for a lawyer 197 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: like he was who all the poorer people went to. 198 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's really how he got to where 199 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: he could target prostitutes and stuffs because they were of 200 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: lower income and they could afford his services. It's not 201 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: a surprise to me that her dad had him as 202 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: a lawyer. It's important to note that the recollections that 203 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: Michael Moran was pot Carter's attorney is strictly the first 204 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: hand account of our anonymous source. Here's Stephanie and Jeff 205 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: We talked about Michael Moran in season two. He's an 206 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: attorney and a former city councilman in Portsmouth, which is 207 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: about twenty five miles south of Pike County. He had 208 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: multiple allegations against him, including sex trafficking, the disappearance of 209 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: several young women connected to him personally, and the possible 210 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: murder of another at the age of seventy five while 211 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: out on bail and awaiting trial for promoting prostitution, compelling prostitution, 212 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: human trafficking, and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity. 213 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: Michael Moran died in November twenty twenty one. There's a 214 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: place called Big Bear Lake that has come up a 215 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: lot over the years in our research. It's this spot 216 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: not too far from Pike County that people go to 217 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: on vacation. Essentially, it's like a holiday location. We're going 218 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: to discuss this further, but it's also been alleged that 219 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: it's a spot where sex trafficking happens, drug trafficking happens, 220 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: and potentially there's a connection between Michael Moran and the 221 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: Wagner family. I have to be really honest, my mouth 222 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: dropped when we heard the connection between Pug Carter, Angela 223 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: Wagner's father, and Michael Moran. It's full circle. It just 224 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: further speaks to this idea that Pike County and the 225 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: surrounding area is where people in power continue to stay 226 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: in power by abusing other people. It also points to 227 00:12:53,720 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: a larger plot here. Angie was always really with her dad, 228 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: Like I remember her being at her dad's often, like 229 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: she took care of her dad. What I've heard locally 230 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: is that's why they came back from Alaska's because Billy's 231 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: dad had died and her dad had died. They needed 232 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: to settle those estates, and then they ended up moving 233 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: into his house, to Plug's house, and that's where they 234 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: lived when they were arrested. Did you have any interaction 235 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: with them when they came back. No, nobody really knew 236 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: they were here until they were arrested. People would be like, oh, 237 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: I think I saw Angela and Jake at Jackson Walmart, 238 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: which is a completely different county. I think they were 239 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: going there so they weren't noticed, And everybody's like, no, 240 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: there's no way. Then all of a sudden they were 241 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: arrested and we're like, oh, well, maybe it was true. 242 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: They were back into him. But if you drive by 243 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: Plug's house, like the Wagner's vehicles are still there. It's 244 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: still as if it was the day they were arrested. 245 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: Nothing has been best with or moved. Somebody cuts the grass, 246 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: but as far as like their stuff still being in there, 247 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: it is still there. Can you paint the picture for me? 248 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: So like a brick ranch home with you know, like 249 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: a big gravel lot and there's still kind of stuff out. 250 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: It still kind of looks like it did one plug 251 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: O didn't. But there's like vehicles that outside they have, 252 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: like this really big Dodge Ram Diesel truck. When you 253 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: have something like that around here, it made you have money. 254 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: It's interesting that that stuff wasn't seized. Yeah, we kind 255 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: of get like an eerie feeling when you drive either too. 256 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, there's so much bad stuff that's happened 257 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: in that one house as far as like crime goes. Yeah, 258 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: I mean that's where they were hiding out and potentially 259 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: they were there planning those murders. So we're going to 260 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. 261 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The 262 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: Girl Friends Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 263 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 264 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 265 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: he was do He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. 266 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 267 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 268 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 269 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 270 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 271 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 272 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 273 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 274 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 275 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 276 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody, we know there 277 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have 278 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: one we would love for you to check out. It 279 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: is called The Penpals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and 280 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: Rory Scovell. We are both stand up comedians where actors 281 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: were writers, but now most of all, we are your penpals. 282 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: Every single episode we get two letters that we read 283 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: from our listeners are new pen pals. It can be 284 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: about anything going on in their life. And sometimes we're 285 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: also joined by guests like Will Farrell. I'm gonna bring 286 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: you up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch 287 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose 288 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: burn Well, this is West Hollywood. We keep it clean. 289 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: J J. Is that considered? Brian, I'm just showing you 290 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: that my mind is quick, if not that funny. And 291 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: Mandy Moore, We're all crossing the line together. Listen to 292 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, 293 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get 294 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: your podcast, and sirely your new pen pals Daniel Van 295 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: Kirk and Rory Scobel. Hi, I'm Dalia Wild and I 296 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast, 297 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: The Afters to make Up. It's called The Oh My 298 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: God Particle Show or OMGPS for short. How you like me? 299 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: Always wondering about the universe, like what the universe is 300 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: made of? What is in the atmosphere is of alien 301 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: punic and you know, how are we even here to 302 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: even ask those questions, so road trip I wanted to 303 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: get some answers directly from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider. 304 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed when the 305 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: universe was about a trillions of a second old. I 306 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: found scientists from all over the world. Everybody is working 307 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: together to get their experiment working. I've got to doctor 308 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen. 309 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: Listen to the Oh My God Particle Show on the 310 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: I Heard radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 311 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. People from LA 312 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, and 313 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: they won't lift a finger to help you. To LA, 314 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: people represent vapidity stops that like oh the best GOLs 315 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: like oh Shoot. As someone born and raised here, I 316 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: can tell you there's much more to LA in. My 317 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of a 318 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. There's ten 319 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: different stories about LA and the real people who make 320 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: up this city. What did you listen to my message? 321 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: Who were just trying to get bought. I think I 322 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with 323 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: each other. I'm going to be a father. Yea, Are 324 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: you feeling? This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love? Listen 325 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever 326 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Sammy Joe grew up in the 327 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: piked In area and was closed with both the Wagner 328 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: and the Rodent families. Sammy spent a lot of time 329 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: at the Wagner's home, where she found Angela to be 330 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: not so much motherly as controlling. Here she is speaking 331 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: with Stephanie. I grew up with the Wagner and then 332 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: I dated Frankie wrote, where were you when you heard 333 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: all of the news about the murders. I was standing 334 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: in my living room, and I lived not tremendously far away, 335 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: but I heard all the sirens and everything going on. 336 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: The next thing, you know, my Facebook was all lit 337 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: up with family members found dead, and I'm thinking, there 338 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: ain't no way we all talk about Angela Wagner, the 339 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: mom of killers, as being in the mastermind. I wouldn't 340 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: put a pastor if Angela said jumped and you didn't 341 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: say how high Angela got mapped, especially with Jake. Jake 342 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: was her baby. Like if Angela didn't like me, Jake 343 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to like me that week. I didn't come 344 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: from the right family, or I did her wrong in 345 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: her eyes or something. What about Billy would you describe him? 346 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: What was he like? He was a type of guy 347 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: that he could crack a joke and you would laugh 348 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: for days. My dad had a stroke, a massive brainbling 349 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: a stroke, and I remember writing Angela and I said, hey, 350 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: this is Samantha Brian Frederick's daughter. I need to get 351 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: ahold of Billy. And Billy got ahold of me, and 352 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: I told him my fight listened the house that we're 353 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: living in the floor falling through. They will not let 354 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: my dad come home and let me get the floor fit. 355 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: Billy showed up with plywood feed for my animals. He 356 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: had bought me cinnamon products, a shampoo conditioner, like he 357 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: was there to help, like in his mom. I got 358 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: ahold of Billy and I was. I listened my mom's 359 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: behind on the electric bill. We're in disconnect very literally 360 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: shutting us off. We need a good amount of money. 361 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: And Frederika got ahold of us, and she paid our 362 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: electric bill. They wasn't bad people. I mean they're bad 363 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: people now, but I honestly am my opinion. I don't 364 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: think they were all involved. I think there was other 365 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: people involved under Angela's demand. Right, Is it possible that 366 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: they weren't even there and that maybe other people were 367 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: there that night? In my opinion, yes, I think they know, 368 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: but they won't speak about it. I think the boys 369 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: know what happened, and if they speak about it, they'll 370 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: be dead. And that's my opinion. Jake and George was 371 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: always homeschooled, like they were never in public schools. The 372 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: public systems that Angela was not good enough for her boy, 373 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: so her teaching her kids was better. I don't know 374 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: how much better that was, but it was teaching them 375 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: pretty much. What Angela said goes like she puts off 376 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: the vibe of like if she said you're going to 377 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: rob a bank and you tell her no, like she 378 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: gets scary. I love the boys to death. They're a 379 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: little weird, but I love them to death. I remember 380 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: decades ago we all went to the bull riding thing 381 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 1: and Billy and her got my little argument. I've never 382 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: seen a grown man in an argument shut up so 383 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: fast in my life, like the argument was over within seconds. 384 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: It was controlling, is what it was. And have you 385 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: been in the house when all of them were home 386 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, the house was always quiet, 387 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: very quiet. Normally would be Billy sitting there in a 388 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: chair grinding his teeth, just sitting there watching TV. That 389 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: would be like the living room area. Angela was normally 390 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: in their cooking, and then off all that in the 391 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: bag was the boys' room. To the left was Georgia's room, 392 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: until the right was Jake's room. Of course, typical boys, 393 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: you're going to have to your heads and guns in there. 394 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: And that's pretty much the house. I can't remember a 395 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: time that they were one of the houses burnt down 396 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,239 Speaker 1: and they were living in a shack and they were 397 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: all cramped up in this little living room area and 398 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm standing there by the door with my dad. It 399 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: was so quiet you could hear a pin drop. As 400 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: a reminder, this is Sammy Joe's recollection of events. I 401 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: could tell you every place that they had, every place 402 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: that burned down. I can't prove that it was in church, 403 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: but that many houses. There's the trailer trailer slash house, 404 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: the building. There's like a good four or five places 405 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: that burnedale, plus a semi truck. There wasn't anybody home 406 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: or in the houses when they burned down. Correct. No, 407 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: We've heard for several years about suspicious fires related to 408 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: Angela and Billy Wagner, but have never been able to 409 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: speak out about it. However, now these allegations have been 410 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: substantiated in court. On May second, twenty twenty two, Special 411 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angiekneppa references arson in connection with the Wagner family 412 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: multiple times. Some of these apps are alleged. Some of 413 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: these we have again high levels of proof, specifically number one, 414 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: multiple instances of arson of various properties for their own 415 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: financial gain. Everybody in the conspiracy has their own role 416 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: and they carry out that role ironically. Oftentimes Angela absents 417 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: herself from the himself. The men Jake, George and Billy 418 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: carry out on the crime and then they have a story, 419 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: a cover up story. If I had a chance to 420 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: talk to George, I honestly would because I just want 421 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: to know why I actually want fishing with George. Shortly 422 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: after and it got brought up, Wait, you went fishing 423 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: with George Wagner after the murders. I asked him. I 424 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: was like, I can't believe this happened, and because him 425 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: and Frankie after a while that rode close as terrible 426 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: as it is to say now, victim Frankie Rodin and 427 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: accused murderer George Wagner were known to be good friends. 428 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: Sammy Job calls the time when Frankie Rodin was standing 429 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: up to Jake Wagner to defend his sister Hannah May. 430 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: I did hear about Frankie and Jay getting into it, 431 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: because I guess and Hannah got into it and Jake 432 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: had hit Hannah. Sorry to interrupt, but just for clarity, 433 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: you're referring to victim Frankie Rodin, Hanname Rodin's older brother, right, Yeah, 434 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I wasn't there or that's just 435 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: what I was told. But George like shut me out, 436 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: like he goes, how could we do it? Because they 437 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,199 Speaker 1: were already be in question who was going to be 438 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: there with the kids. And I was like, well, I 439 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: don't know. I was like, there's just something wrong, Like 440 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: he totally shut me out, Like I knew sometime was 441 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: wrong that day when we were talking about it, like 442 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: our vision trip was going good and it got run 443 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: real fuck Like, I talked to them. Why they were 444 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: in Alaska? Tell me about the Alaska piece. Why Alaska? 445 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: That's been the boys's dream since they were mee hi 446 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: to Grasshopper. Do you know if Angela and Hannah at 447 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: any point had a positive relationship, even back in the 448 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: early days. Oh yeah, at one one time. They loved 449 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: each other as far as I know. But angel was 450 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: the type of person if you say or do something 451 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: out of the way, you're a bad person. Why, I think, 452 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: honestly because Hannah was the type of person. But if 453 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: I say no, that's what I mean. And Angela wasn't 454 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: getting her way with the custody, And I honestly feel like, 455 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: and this was my opinion, Angela was afraid that Hannah 456 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: was going to take away all visitations and that's how 457 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: it was going to be. Not only did Sammy Joe 458 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: know the Wagner family, but she also knew the Rodents intimately. 459 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: When they were very much alive. She spent a lot 460 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: of time at mother Dana Roden's house visiting her boyfriend Frankie. 461 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: How old were you when you dated Frankie Rodin? I 462 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: dated him from seventh grade to like ninth grade. He 463 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: was fun and you just liked the rest of him, 464 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: like you was so well going, give the shirt off 465 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: his back, caring Nolsee when you were dating Frankie, did 466 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: you spend any time at the road and home? What 467 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: were they like? What was their home like? It was fun, 468 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: like it was a live like that place was alive. 469 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: Frankie would ride a bus home with me. Mostly I 470 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: ride bus home with them and just spend a lot 471 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: of time out there. I spent more time than even 472 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: at my own house. And was Dana close with Frankie? 473 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: Oh that was her baby boy? Like should hurt someone 474 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: over her kids? Could you physically describe her like? What 475 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: did she look like? Her hair was always sure. We 476 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: always called her fluffy. She was about five to seven, 477 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: very loud but fun. Yeah, like I never wanted to 478 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: go home, like I actually felt like I was wanted. 479 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: She would go out of your way like my dream 480 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: shoes was I called him Abby's shoes like they were 481 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: the very long shoes that zip up the back. I 482 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: can't remember what they're called now and her and Frankie Blomingham. 483 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: I had those shoes for years. Did you know Hannah, 484 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: Gilly Frankie lover her. You could tell. Sammy Joe shared 485 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: a recollection she had about Hanname Rodin Hannah. She would 486 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: drive past my house just honking. And she drove by 487 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: honk and I was on my porch. She was, I'll 488 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: see you later. I came to see you later. And 489 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: I didn't get to see her later because she was 490 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: dead the next day. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. 491 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 492 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 493 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 494 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 495 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. 496 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 497 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 498 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 499 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 500 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 501 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 502 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 503 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 504 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 505 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 506 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. How Rude tanner Rito's is the 507 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: Full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week, 508 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, 509 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as 510 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: they team up to relive every episode of your favorite 511 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on 512 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: a little show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming 513 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, and now, thirty five 514 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: years later, it's our biggest adventure yet. Get ready for 515 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take an 516 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: in depth book back at life in and around the 517 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if you 518 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: think you know everything there is to know about Full House, 519 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: how Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you, and 520 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: we'll be joined by our Full House family, including all 521 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. We'll 522 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within the show, 523 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. Listen 524 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: to how Rude Tanertos on the iHeartRadio app, cable podcasts, 525 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. 526 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: People from LA will have a very superficial, nice conversation 527 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: with you, and they won't lift a finger to help you. 528 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: To LA, people represent vapidity, stops that like oh the 529 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: best calls like oh shoot. As someone born and raised here, 530 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you there's much more to LA than this. 531 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: My name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of 532 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: a new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. It's 533 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: ten different stories about La and the real people who 534 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: make up this city. Whatever did you listen to my message? 535 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: Who were just trying to get bought? I think I 536 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with 537 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: each other. I'm going to be a father. Ye Are 538 00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: you Feeling This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love? Listen 539 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 540 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. She's a Hollywood Western She's Jack 541 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: Harrowac but in a nap dress with braids. She is 542 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: one of the most important American children's authors of the 543 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: twentieth century. She's the basis for its television show still 544 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: watched around the world. Somebody somewhere is watching A Little 545 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: as the Bird. She's been called a hero, a racist, 546 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: a feminist, and a propagandist. I think the harm is 547 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: too great because it's just one more thing that Native 548 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: children have to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author 549 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: of the book series Little House on the Prairie. As 550 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: a kid, I idolized Laura, and last summer I went 551 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: on the road in search of the real Laura. We're 552 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: literally on the prairie. What I found was a complicated 553 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: person alongside the camlicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNichol, 554 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: and this is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, 555 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While Sammy 556 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,720 Speaker 1: Joe's relationship with Angelo was similar to what we've heard 557 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: from other people and in trials, that she was controlling 558 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: and suspicious, like all people, Angela is different things to 559 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: different people. Here's Howie, a family friend who knew the 560 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: Wagners both in Ohio and Alaska. My understanding is that 561 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: you had a very close relationship with the Wagner family. 562 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: I grew up with them and went to church and 563 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: them and things like that. Tell me about them. What 564 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: were they like? I always thought they were great people. 565 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: I've stated at their house multiple times. Like I said, 566 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: I've gone to church with them growing up. It's kind 567 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: of like a second family to me. I thought there 568 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: were decent people. Did you remember anything about Angela Wagner. 569 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: I just remember her being the typical mom. In a 570 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: million years, I'd never thought she could plot anything or 571 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,479 Speaker 1: do anything of this sort of caliber. Like I said, 572 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: just the typical mom. She reminds me of my own mother. 573 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: What about her specifically was typical in your opinion? Her attitude, 574 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, just the standard mom. You know the way 575 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: she looks. You look at her and you see mom 576 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: like she's just that friendly of a person. Just her 577 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: attitude in general, she's a welcoming person. You had mentioned Alaska. 578 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: Did you live in Alaska or did you visit them 579 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: while the Wagners were in Alaska. I lived in Alaska 580 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: and they came up and visited. Tell me how old 581 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,880 Speaker 1: were you at that point? I was probably thirteen fourteen 582 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: somewhere around there, just you know, young teenager. They were 583 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 1: a little older than I was, so we didn't really 584 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: hang out a whole lot. Then I went fishing with 585 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: him once or twice in Alaska. Why Alaska, do you think? 586 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: I think the real thing was the pastor in Alaska 587 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: was also the pastor in the church in Ohio that 588 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: they went to and knew my grandparents, So they had 589 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: a lot of people up here that in Alaska is 590 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: just the place that everybody wants to come and visit. 591 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: So I assume that, you know, they wanted to come 592 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: to see old friends and things like that. And when 593 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: they came, that was before the massacre. Correct, Yeah, this 594 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: was before it's at least being curious why they went 595 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: to Alaska, and moreover, why would they go back to 596 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: Pike County. They came the first time to visit, and 597 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: then the whole Pike County massacre thing happened and they 598 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: came back to Alaska, but they had no contact with anybody. 599 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: They didn't talk to any of us, Like we reached out, 600 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: were like, hey, what's up, how are you guys? We're 601 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: sorry this happened, and they never once talked to us. 602 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: They moved to a different city. I believe they lived 603 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: in Salatna or Cassia Lock or something like that. And 604 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: they never had any sort of contact with me and 605 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: my grandparents and my sisters, the pastor nothing. What do 606 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: you make to that. It was definitely strange hearing people 607 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: were murdered, then they show up out of nowhere coming 608 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: back to Alaska. It was it was definitely fishing. And 609 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: that's when I kind of cut ties, you know, just 610 00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: just to be on the SAT side. I didn't want 611 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: me involved in anything of that sort. When they were 612 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: in fact arrested for the murders, that must have been 613 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: a huge shock. Oh. I cried, I said in my apartment, 614 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: And I cried because he's just, you know, one of 615 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: the sweetest people ever. I just don't think it's going 616 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: to add begin. I think people do dumb things for 617 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: their family. People say they do anything for their family, 618 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: and I think she did do anything for her family, 619 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: as terrible as it was. As we continue speaking with 620 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: more people, much more information is coming out, including other 621 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: acts the Wagners have allegedly committed over the years. This 622 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: is according to prosecutors. The Wagner family tracked her. They 623 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: threatened her, They threatened her family's lives. The family definitely 624 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: on that side. They did stuff to make money other 625 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: than legally. It begs the question of how wide their 626 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: net is spread and what other people may be involved. 627 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: For the first time in this podcast, will hear Jake 628 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: Wagner's ex wife Elizabeth. They keep being asked, did you 629 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: know Jake Wagner was a murderer before you married him? 630 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 1: What I'm getting reysycho have nothing to do with the murder. 631 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: This voice belongs to another person who has requested anonymity 632 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: due to their proximity to the Wagner family. Is Angela 633 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: the monster or did she marry into monsters? I feel 634 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: like Billy is a type that would pay someone in 635 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: prison to kill his own kids. More on that next time. 636 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: For more information on case photos, follow us on Instagram 637 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikes and Massacre is produced 638 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. 639 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, 640 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Pikes and Massacre is 641 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: a production of Katie Studios and Heart Radio. For more 642 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or 643 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher 644 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,439 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's 645 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time 646 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who 647 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was 648 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: the spot Baron Bout. On paper, he was perfect, but 649 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: in reality, this guy's a wacko. He choked and to 650 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: the point she went unconscious. I would call him and 651 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: I would say, I know you killed my sister. You 652 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, 653 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So how 654 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: does the half American, half Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans. 655 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: There's absolutely no journalism experience, right? The biggest story of 656 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: the eighties, That's what journalist is all of that. I'm 657 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: a woman, wife beater T shirt, not wearing a brawl 658 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: curses like a sailor. I got balls bigger than any man. 659 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 1: Dan Rather used to call me his secret weapon. Listen 660 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: to Journalist to every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 661 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. They say history is 662 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,919 Speaker 1: written by the victors, but you know what they left 663 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: out A hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Ah. 664 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: We all know who invented that, right, and we'll think again. 665 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: Truth is Alexander Graham. Bell stole the idea for the 666 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: telephone and then claimed it as his own. We're going 667 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you didn't know 668 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: you need it to know. Listen to the backstory with 669 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: me Patty Steele twice a week on the iHeartRadio app, 670 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello 671 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: Mountain Glabo. Here this year under Visionist History, we're tackling 672 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: more ambitious stories than ever, from how to fix education 673 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: to what Americans get completely wrong about guns. We're debating 674 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: with teenagers, handing out awards and hunting for the perfect 675 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 1: medical recon This is, after all, a podcast about you 676 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: overlooked and misunderstood. Find Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app, 677 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.