WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 27 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.359 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.159 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:27.600 can make your own decisions. M Hey, evenyone that this 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.680 is Garrison Davis from It could happen here. For this 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.640 week of episodes, the team has put together a sepastoral 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.280 group of episodes, all focused on the broad topic of 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:43.640 the escalating war on trans people. We'll cover historical background, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.240 the international turf movement, and all the new anti trans 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.600 legislation trying to be made into law here in the 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.559 United States. We won't have time to cover everything. It's 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.200 only five episodes, but we were tried to cram more 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.520 stuff in, and you know it's it's we don't want 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.200 to make episodes all like two or three hours, So 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.800 I'm sure we'll we'll cover all these topics more in 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.640 the future, but we tried to create five episodes here 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:06.280 that kind of cover a lot of a lot of 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:08.960 our bases. Also, we've we've tried not to make the 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.520 episodes super depressing, because yeah, it's five episodes based on 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.000 a kind of upsetting topic. So we try to keep 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.240 them more information based and throwing in some jokes here 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.880 and there, you know, but it is still not a fun, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.200 fun topic, so to keep keep that in mind. But 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.039 we've tried to try to space things out and not 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.919 make them too long or not too depressing. So, without 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.280 further ado, here is episode one of the War on 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:37.480 trans People. Welcome to It could Happen here, a podcast 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.160 about things falling apart and in in the case of 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:45.400 this week, getting very angry at people doing really shitty things, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.240 um to a specific subset of the population. All right, Gary, 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:54.160 isn't that every week? Well no, sometimes we talk about 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.520 other stuff like three D printed guns, but that ties 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.800 in Garrison take it from here. I'm done for the week. Yes, 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.640 So welcome to can happen here? We're talking about Well, 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.040 one of the big it could happens here is yeah 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.480 in in in relation to the ongoing war on queer 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.280 people in general. Um and how yeah that sure seems 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.040 to be like it's happening, so here here, right now. 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.720 But but before we get to the actual right now points, 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:23.840 I still I do want to do want to do 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.079 a little bit of background on how it's kind of 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.040 gotten to this point in the past few decades and 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.640 the variously precursors to the current moment that has seemed 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.760 to be really focused on trans people specifically, but for 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.160 a long time, a lot of the focus was on 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.440 protecting quote unquote the sanctity of marriage, which was one 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:45.799 of the one of the big, one of the big 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.120 talking points. And to help us talk about this fun 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:55.760 and engaging topic, I asked on Karen and Eve from 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:00.400 the Kitchen Table Cult podcast to assist us in this 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:06.440 horrible endeavor. Greetings, and I'm sorry, Yes we are. We 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.400 are gays who grew up in that universe, so as 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:12.600 as as was I, as was probably a few other 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:17.160 people of this this call. Uh yeah, we we all 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.920 we all have varying experiences growing up in the evangelical movement. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.840 Um well also realizing huh, maybe we are not straight 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:30.400 and orsist children. So yeah, but we're gonna, we're gonna, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.639 we're gonna be talking about the kind of the escalating 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:37.880 war and gay marriage and how that kind of moves 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.760 over to trans people at a certain point. Um, and 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.520 specifically talking about kind of the combination of religion and politics, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.200 because this is this is something I've discussed before on 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.040 my two part Focus on the Family episode, and this 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:51.520 really is going to tie into a lot of that 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.520 stuff because it's a lot of the same people. But 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.320 I would love for everyone else to kind of fill 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.560 in the gaps where I have stuff missing, because I 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.520 definitely have a a good, good point on the Family 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.280 Research Council kind of side of things, and I would 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:05.640 love for people to fill in the gaps on the 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:08.440 other other kind of stuff. But yeah, we're gonna start 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.840 off for talking about Family Research Council, um and that 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.400 whole kind of side of things, because I mean they, oh, yes, 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.440 Josh Tugger is coming up. Don't both research and families, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.039 So this seems unproblematic. I'm gonna just mute things from 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.880 now on, and yeah, you guys continue in terms of 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.440 all of the save the children rhetoric. Yes, Josh Josh 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.560 Dogger will be coming up, so yeah, but I do 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.920 want to actually open up with a quote from Mike Rosebush, 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.279 who was the vice president of Focus on the family 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:46.720 from thousand four UM and then a few years ago 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.840 he came out as as gay and as a surprise 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.200 so called affirming like Christian who like loves Jesus and 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.520 endorses rights for gay people. He left, he left, got 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.480 fired from focus on the family EC side or say 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:02.760 side B. Does he is he in favor of the 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:06.919 celibacy model or is he a show with marriage? He 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:13.360 seems to be excited about fucking okay, so it is 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.040 definitely the better side. But I want to start off 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:20.479 with by by him just to kind of set the 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.359 stage for how this type of thing kind of really 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:28.440 got got started, for combining, you know, the evangelical kind 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:33.160 of biblical worldview with political organizing. So anyway, I'm going 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.680 to read a quote here, quote Dobson even more so 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.120 than focused on the family, and that's a that's James Dobson, 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.840 by the way, Um, Dobson even more so than focus 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.120 on the family as an organization, strongly encouraged all evangelicals 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.679 to support and express their values in the public arena. 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.760 As background, before about nineteen seventy, evangelicals often confined themselves 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.599 within their own like cloistored communities. Political development was viewed 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.280 as a secular enterprise and suspect at best, and this 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.000 change during the Dobson era, He and others encouraged evangelicals 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.559 to learn and apply the Biblical worldview. The evangelical person 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:15.360 was coached in applying the apologetics debate method in publicly 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.640 sharing the Biblical worldview. Voting in every local and national 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:23.359 election became seen as a Christians duty. So at Focus 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.760 I learned that the evangelical leaders like Dr Dobson considered 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.600 the Republican Party to be the political machine best equipped 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.760 to endorse a Biblical worldview. In delated harmony, Republican Party 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.880 strategists salivated to win elections by securing the evangelical vote. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.960 Thus a mutual agreement was formed. The plan became that 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.520 evangelical leaders would introduce a hot button issue onto ballots 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.679 at every local and state election. Evangelical ministers would provide 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:51.159 voting guides on how to influence evangelicals to vote for 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.400 the only correct Christian choice, in turn the elector cand 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.520 in turn that elected Republican Canada when champion the corresponding 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.279 Biblical worldview. And this strategy worked, and what was the 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.400 most reliable hot button to place on the local and 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.440 state of voting ballots, something that would ensure evangelicals in 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.040 mass to show up to vote the up anti gay 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.160 rights bills. Gay rights were viewed by evangelicals as a 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:22.640 threat to the Biblical family and society in general. So yeah, 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:23.920 that's kind of how I want to open up in 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.240 terms of kind of the shift in like the seventies 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:29.320 and eighties and especially in the nineties, from kind of 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.720 evangelicals being pretty divorced from political mainstream action to them 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.680 becoming a crucial part of the Republican machine, and this 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.400 kind of circle that completes itself at this at this 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:45.080 like at this point afterwards, because yeah, this combined with 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.160 a whole bunch of save the children rhetoric and like 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.320 saving the family, like like the unit of the family 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.520 as a sacred thing to protect. It's really like that 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.000 that idea really carries over now into into into the 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.600 trans stuff because obviously they kind of lost a lot 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.360 of this to they wanted to do on gay marriage 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.960 after a long, a long fight, you know, decades and decades, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.440 but it's still the same core idea at the heart 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.800 of it. Yeah, I just want to put an evergreen 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.760 footnote on all of that and say thanks and fuck 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:19.160 you to finish laughly for getting us down that road. Yes, yeah, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.720 that was like blame can definitely be passed around like 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:28.320 originates there, Like I mean like before all of that, 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:34.200 like the Evangelical Church was not even united on the 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.640 idea of abortion being bad. Like like we have come 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:43.600 so far to merging these these universes in this really 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.280 sucked up little marriage that they got going on. No, 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.480 and and you can't you cannot divorce the ideas of 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.600 like the escalating war against abortion and then also like 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.600 with the save the children, like protect the family idea, right, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:58.840 these these are the these are the same issues. Like 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.200 these these do go together in terms of people, you know, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.480 making this like fake version of the family that they 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.720 are swearing to protect, whether that be from gay people, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.440 or that be from you know, women's bodily autonomy or 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.320 you know women's rights or like fifth like feminism. All 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.880 of it's in the same is in the same package. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.520 It's like that meme of like two pictures and PAMs 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.679 like these are the same picture. It's the same exact 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.920 rhetoric and it's just like re skin slightly too for 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.839 whatever topic of the day. The The other other big 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.640 thing I want to mention before I get into Family 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.360 Research Council UM is the two thousand and four book 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.800 A Marriage Under Fire, Bye Bye by Dr James Dobson, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.760 which was definitely one of the one of the other 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.960 kind of key points in escalating these idea of the 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.480 culture war UM. And you know that that type of 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.440 that type of like more like almost like tactical rhetoric. 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.640 It's all yeah, it's it's It was definitely it was 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.440 definitely turning point at the same time when Fireproof came out. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:09.640 Oh I think so, Yeah, it happened close. Yeah. Fireproof 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.480 and all that came out between two thousand and four 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.520 and two thousand and six seven, so that was all 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:19.320 around the same time period because they were losing, like 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.120 you said earlier, they were losing the battle against it, right, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.319 because that was that was around the time Queer I 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.199 was coming out. That was when they were starting to 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.240 get nervous that maybe they could not stop this particular 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.240 like like forward slide. But yeah, like on the back 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.600 cover of their Robert you have something to say. No, 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.120 I was just thinking back to that period of time 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.360 when it it seemed positive progress in that regard seemed 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:50.800 inevitable and unstoppable. Yeah, I think the note on martial 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.920 language as used for this is really important here, Like 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.880 this is a battle, it is under fire, Like that's 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:03.800 that is something that was definitely on that point. I'm 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.320 just gonna read a little bit of the back cover 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.520 of a Marriage under Fire. Here we go. In this 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:12.800 succinct analysis of the issue, Dr James Dobson presents a 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.320 compelling case against the legalization of marriage between homosexuals. At 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.000 the dire ramifications our nation could face. Same sex marriage 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.800 will destroy the fundamental principles of marriage, parenthood and gender. 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:30.200 Families will be increasingly unstable as their definition expands to 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:35.760 incorporate multiple moms or dad's in quotation marks. Legalization of 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.720 gay marriages will lead to polygamy and other alternatives to 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.840 one man, one woman unions. The divorce rate will be higher, 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:47.120 making our children less safe. Marriage Underfire provides the foundations 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.160 of a battle plan for the preservation of traditional values 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.520 in our nation. Our response cannot be clearer. The well 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.280 being of the family and thus our nation hangs in 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.480 the balance. Now the time to speak out in defensive 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.679 marriage and the American family. So yeah, it is particularly 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.880 the battle plan, right. You know. One thing I really 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:12.600 loved during this time was the like libertarian Christian response 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.600 to this kind of conversation where they're just like or 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:17.920 we could just you know, not have marriage each tied 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.000 to the state at all. You know, yeah, yeah, I 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.000 do remember that this is the like, this is the 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.800 backup plan for like, okay, if like if marriage you know, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.480 gay marriage goes forward, then we can just like do 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.320 that if we want to, you know, just like completely eliminated. No, absolutely, yeah, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.520 I absolutely remember that that type of rhetoric. Even even yea, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.160 even around when like the Supreme Court cases we're going forward, 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:45.840 they were like really set on like this is like 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.439 you know, last resort. We have to fixture that makes 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.520 sure that it like like like church marriage is just 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.600 completely separate, which even then that still is the case, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.000 and like like a lot of places, like churches is 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.320 still in a lot of states like reserve the right 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.840 to uh not people, um, and you can only you 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:03.720 can do it through the courts, but not through the church. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.439 There's also the subtext in that that I think should 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.960 be unpacked, which is that the multimum moms and Dad's 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.319 kind of image that's given is not a signal of 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.800 like the non traditional family being bad, but more of 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.920 a There was this myth that was pushed really hard 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:28.360 in the conversion therapy circuit that like if you didn't 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.880 have a good father figure, you were going to be gay. 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.599 You're you know, if you didn't have a good relationship 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.320 with your mom, you're going to be gay. So like 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.880 having this as like this, these coded statements in there 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.560 are giving the clue of like we're trying to stop 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.960 the cycle. We're trying to not create more gay kids. Um, 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.120 and that's why this is important. Yeah, I was reading 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.040 a lot earlier today from the Heritage Foundation because I 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:59.760 remember them being a key start. It was so bad, 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.280 and their whole thing was like you have to have 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.480 a mother and a father otherwise everything is terrible. And 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:08.840 then you get gay kids, and that also lights like 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.520 goes into the whole other theory that was like well, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:17.079 which I think Robertson either made up or repeated. Um, 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.800 it was like, well, people who are gay were abused 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.080 as children. Yeah, that is that is definitely when I 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.360 mean then of course all these all these evangelicals are 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:31.640 also all like beating their kids, were abusing your child 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:35.960 because they were gay or because I mean I was 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.800 and I am, But I don't think. Yeah, the related 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.960 in the sense that you being gay is is the 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.560 is the one of the triggers for the parents, but 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.800 it's not the cause of relationship runs the opposite direction. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:56.960 Rights exactly. We are gonna take a break and hear 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:02.640 from all of our lovely sponsors who don't support child abuse. 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:08.120 Probably well, I mean unless it's unless it's which which 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.080 does you know does run that island off the coast 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.240 of Indonesia where you can hunt children for sport? But 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.600 we prefer not to see that is I don't think, Robert, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.640 I think you have to bleep that. No, Garrison, We're 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.040 not going to bleep an ad. That's what sponsors this 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.800 show is child hunting island, which you cannot say that 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:30.360 is designed to do every week more gay kids. Um, well, 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:36.160 it's designed to make happier billionaires. Yeah, there's nothing. There's 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.200 nothing Elon Musk gloves more than hunting children on his 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.920 at a private island reserve off the coast of Indonesia. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.800 And and like Elon Musk, you two can hunt children 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:49.720 if you bube anyway, here's here's yet. Yes, we are 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.920 we are back, and now we're gonna we're gonna move 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.520 on to probably the most unfun portion of the show today. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.760 Um f r C. The Family Research Council. I'm gonna 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.560 actually talk about like what they are and what they 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.200 did and how they're kind of important in the evolution 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.920 of rhetoric and various other stuff. So yeah, Family Research 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.200 Council emerged from a nineteen eighty White House conference on 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.960 families that James Dobson kind of co led with the 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:18.480 President of the United States. So that's fun. Um. Yeah, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.080 So he he met and prayed with a group of 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.320 like eight Christian leaders at a Washington, d c. Hotel, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.160 ultimately leading to the creation of the Family Research Council UM, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.520 under the direction of a Gerald region Er. That's how 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:32.920 that's then, that's how I'm gonna say it. That's what 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.240 I'm gonna say his name because he doesn't respect so 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.600 I'm not going to google it. Um and it uh it. 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:40.880 It became a division to focus on the family, and 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.800 like the late eighties under Gary Bowyer. Um. And the 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.960 reason there's a who bunch of like complicated like tax 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.440 stuff because focused on the family can't get too political 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.040 because then middle like sacrifice their tax taxing extempt status. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.160 So there's a whole bunch of really shady stuff happening 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.640 in between Family Research Council and focused on the family 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.960 proper not doing any lobbying. Yeah, in terms of like 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.240 who runs what and like what cross over there is 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.119 with like the leadership. They're basically the same organization, but 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.840 they are like legally separate and kind of have different 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.679 like operating strategies. Um, but they really are, like to 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.119 be fair, lots of words to do this, this is 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.280 not unusual. No, it's it's it's not unusual, but like 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.280 it's important to that. Like they basically are like like 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.120 they're they're very late, like they are like like sibling organizations. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.639 So yeah, this is uh, this is uh the Gary 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.120 boy or the guy who took over in the late 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.960 eighties of what it was. Also the was the under 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:40.560 Secretary of Education and Domestic Policy advisor to President Reagan. UM. 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.600 So again already like fully fully tied into like the 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.679 Republican machine. So m Boyer brought in several anti LGBT 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.640 researchers who pumped out like defamatory material about queer people. UM. 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.320 Robert Knight was a longtime conservative writer and journalist and 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.159 the kind of major propagandist against lgbt Q rights. He 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.439 served as the f f r c S Director of 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.160 Cultural Affairers in the nineties up into the early two thousand's. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.080 Um While working there, he wrote, along with some Focus 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:15.680 on the Family editors, a booklet called the the Homosexual 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.440 Behavior and Pedophilia. This is a very very very common 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.240 thread and all their stuff is that gay people were 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.400 abused as kids and gay people therefore are like wired 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.440 to also abuse kids, Like it's part of this cycle 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.680 that they like coopit a whole bunch of research on it, 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.199 that they misrepresented that all of the researchers who did 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.960 the actual stuff was like, no, you're totally wrong. Um yeah, 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.480 it's it's there's there's I talk I talked about this 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.320 a little a little bit and more in depth than 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.520 the focus on the family episodes for for bastards in 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.200 terms of like they actually research they used, Um, but 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.000 yeah it is uh. In the what one of the 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:59.920 remarkable claims inside the booklet was was the a search 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.159 and that quote. One of the primary goals of the 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.000 homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.199 laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the profits of 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:13.160 a new sexual order. So that's uh, that's great profits. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:19.800 F I T S that iss P E P H 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:28.560 Y s pH is just libertarianism then basically yeah, basically yes, um, yes, 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:32.359 the for some reason, you cannot find this pamphlet on 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:38.720 the f FRC website today. Um. Yeah. So Boya left 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:44.480 the group UM, and then FARC had two presidents UM 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.359 and emerge and one of the most one of them 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.919 kind of resulted in becoming the most powerful religious right 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.800 lobbying group in the country with tons of tons of 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:56.399 policy researchers and writers UM, and a lot of a 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.520 lot of like email like email lists and like physical 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.840 mailing us was a big part of their political organizing. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.919 You know, Eve and Karen we have talked before about 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.280 the effective power of the rights mailing lists in terms 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:14.159 of getting political change. Yeah. Um. Kenneth Conners was a 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.720 Florida attorney and a leader in the pro life movement. 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.720 He served as president in the early two thousand's. During 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:24.120 his kind of tenure, um f r c's agenda focused 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:28.119 mostly on abortion and then also a traditional marriage of 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.879 other stuff. Was like religious liberty, which means Christian supremacy, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.439 not actual religious liberty. Um. And then like uh, like 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.640 protecting parents rights right, protecting like parental choice, um, which 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.720 we'll we'll talk, we'll talk like how do they define 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.919 traditional marriage? Is this involving like dowries and land transfers 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:52.840 and treaties. I believe they just I believe they want 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.040 one man and then one woman and the woman doesn't 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.119 really need to actually want it, but as long as 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.160 the man wants it, then it's fine. Um. And are 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.119 they like the Catholics where they believe it has to 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.280 be for the purposes of procreation? Um? I mean they're 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.400 they're part of the mainstream evangelicals. Like there's definitely there's 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.000 like the court of Idea. So yeah, like they are 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.359 they are, they are for that. But it's I know, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.960 it's it is. It's it's a very like patriarchal thing. Um. 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.399 And it depends things dumb here, but like the because 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.040 these are these are important distinctions that need it depends 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:29.720 on congregation to congregation, right, Like like the kind of 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.560 the stuff that I grew up with wasn't super focused 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.719 on tons of on having tons of kids actually, um. 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.000 In fact that they kind of prefer just keeping it 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.520 capped off at two kids, because you know, the more 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.639 kids you had, the less loyal you were to the 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.160 church because you had to focus more on your kids. Actually, 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.879 so it does, it does. It does really depend on 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.879 congregation to congregation. I think Family Research Council tried to 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.080 keep themselves open to lots of interpretations, so blets people 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:58.920 call the glom onto their stuff, so they didn't get 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:01.919 like super specific around the rule of child rearing. And 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.119 that's anything it's important to note around that. This time, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.879 or a little before it was when John Paul's Theology 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:13.120 the Body was coming out, which is this tone um 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.040 that's basically getting into like why you know, the death 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.360 penalty you would be bad and why abortion is bad, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.560 and it's all this like sanctity of the body and 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.440 the body existing and then like the sanctity of sex 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:30.879 as for the purposes appropriation that was in the in 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:34.120 the atmosphere at this time. That was definitely a key 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:36.520 point is that sex is just for making kids. Like 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.680 that is definitely like a big, a big part of it, 0:22:39.720 --> 0:22:42.240 which like they don't actually really believe, but they say right, 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.600 because like if you look at all of like the 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.679 all of the extra like the people like all like 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.920 these leaders like are not like faithful to their wives 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.439 by anything. Not an accidental side effect of kids at 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.840 the point. No, Yeah, but I think it is, like 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.000 it is interesting, like the amount of stuff that's aund 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.560 like parental choice and like parent rights, which will come 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.000 up over the course of the next episodes of the series. 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.080 I'm right now writing episodes about the current like a 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:09.000 book bannings going across the country and a lot of 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:12.840 those tied to liked like parents rights over their children, um, 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:15.639 like they decide what their children gets to read. So 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.800 it's all stuff I've never heard of that before in 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:22.760 my life. That's definitely not also tied up with a 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.760 bunch of the stuff happening in Florida right now, it's 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:28.840 definitely not definitely related to Mike Ferris at all. Yeah, 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.080 and now, yeah, I mean really like yeah, I mean 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:32.680 this is sort of what we're getting at, is that 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:35.480 the modern anti trend stuff is they're just playing all 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:37.600 of the sort of greatest chance of the antipa stuff 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:43.640 like the bathroom and the stuff. Yeah, I don't worry. 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:45.480 I'm planning to tie this up in a nice in 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.320 a nice little bow ahead of you. Just give me 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:54.760 like fifteen minutes and I'll do it. So um yeah 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:56.920 up next we're talking starting to two US and three 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.720 they change leaders again and this is where they really 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.240 have evolved into their current form with Tony Perkins, who 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:08.080 became president of the Family Family Research Council into US 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.359 prior prior to that, he serves two terms as a 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.880 Louisiana state representative in the nineties and even even even 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:16.920 when he was president of Family Research Counselor, he served 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.080 to two years as state representative. He's also a former 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:25.200 police officer UM and a television news reporter. So overall 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:30.399 just sounds like a quite quite the dude. Um yeah 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:32.399 he he. He authored a whole bunch of you know, 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.240 like all these guys right in, tons of like Christian 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.680 books they get published by like weird Christian publishers. Um. 0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:42.040 He also served as the senior pastor of a of 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.360 a church in Maryland UM called the Hope Christian Church. 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.159 He uh and he was. He was a leader of 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.000 an effort by white and black religious right preachers to 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:54.879 work together against LGBT equality, specifically like in like the 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:56.560 East Coast in the South. That's where there's so there's 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.720 a there's a like cross organizing between historically black churches. 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:02.960 Of course not all of them, but like the Perkins 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.960 really tried to like reach out on that front to 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:08.840 get like that coalition going, which was kind of unique 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:12.960 at the time. So yeah, a big part of FARC 0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.680 strategy is to pound home the false claimed that queer 0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.200 people are more likely to sectually abused children other than 0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:23.800 heterosexual people. Um, this is uh, yeah, this is not 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:26.960 not scientifically true. You can look up like stats and 0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:28.720 you can look up you can look up like the 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.040 American Psychology Association has a lot of research on this 0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:33.879 topic because it was such a big point in the 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:37.680 early two thousands that people had to like talk about it. Yeah, 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:39.440 so we is all that's like one of these things 0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:43.199 that like was a myth, you know, ambiently as a 0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.440 scare tactic and a slippery slope fallacy. But I think 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:50.800 there's also it has its roots in a particular misunderstanding 0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:54.960 of Romans too, which is the passage that most people 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:59.000 point to as their anti gay rhetoric. And the context 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:04.200 of that is like most like centrist and liberal like 0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:08.600 biblical scholars will agree that that passage was more about 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:12.119 the pedophilia that was happening in the Roman Empire and 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:17.080 speaking out against that um and not specifically against like 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:24.280 consulting adults even even even even like the Old even 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:25.760 even in the Old Testament to a lot of new 0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:29.000 people going into the actual translations of stuff, and like 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.679 even like Leviticus um, it is definitely pointing towards it 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:37.840 being about specifically like fathers not abusing their like like 0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:40.439 you know, like pre pubescent like sons who are like 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.239 more like androgynous, Like it is specifically targeted like this 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.119 type of idea, it's not it's not against like gay 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:51.040 men who are like adults. Yeah, there's there's this theological 0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:53.560 conversation on the right that was happening that kind of 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:57.080 was like trying to account for that historical context and 0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:00.280 was like it's both. Clearly it's both because they go together, 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:04.400 right and obviously, like we have to find a way 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:08.080 to justify demonizing gay people in order to protect the 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:10.320 san city of marriage, so we have still save the 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:15.200 children and multiple children. So Perkins has continued to defend 0:27:15.200 --> 0:27:17.879 the kind of game and his pedophiles idea. Um. He 0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:21.040 had a he had a televised debate on MSNBC into 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:25.480 in two US in ten about this, UM, so like yeah, 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:27.159 that's I mean, that is like twelve years ago at 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:28.960 this point, but still two US and ten feels much 0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:31.119 more recent than stuff you know, talking about like the 0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:35.359 late nineties. Um, yeah, debating with the Southern Poverty Law Center, 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:41.200 like on the issue of that now. Yeah. Yeah. So. 0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:45.080 Some other anti LGBT kind of propagandists at uh f 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:49.399 RC includes Peter Sprigg, who joined into US in one UM. 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.640 He authored the brochure called a Top ten Myths about Homosexuality, 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:56.200 which was pretty popular around the time. UM. Such claims 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.879 inside the book conclude that like X, gay therapy or 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:04.120 conversion therapy were sexual oritation can be change, UM, lgbt 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:07.399 V LGBTQ people are mentally ill because being lgbt Q 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:10.320 makes you ill, and that the sexual abuse of boys 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:13.480 by adult men is more common than consensual sex between 0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:19.280 adult men, which is not obviously not true. That is 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.320 quite I have questions, that is quite so many questions. 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.640 That is quite quite. The stat um and like Springs, 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:28.120 sources are a mixture of like junk science is stewed 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:32.439 by groups that support conversion therapy UM and also legitimate science, 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:34.480 quota out of context or cherry picked, which is a 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:37.000 long used tactic by anti gay kind of groups. The 0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:41.160 bolster their bolster like their claims and their general like rhetoric. Right, 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:43.840 if you mix in like a hint of truth, it 0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:47.200 can make all of your outrageous stuff seem more like legible. Um, 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:51.600 we knew that from the screw Tape Letters. Yeah, like 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:57.880 one of what one of one of his better books. 0:28:57.920 --> 0:28:59.840 I actually enjoy the screw Tape Letters. I think it's 0:29:00.040 --> 0:29:03.240 it's pretty fucking funny. It's good, but also like just 0:29:03.320 --> 0:29:04.920 so like an easter egg for those who know what 0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:09.960 we're talking about, Like he was extremely kinky carry on. Anyway, 0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:13.640 one of the main researchers they kind of misused research 0:29:13.680 --> 0:29:17.360 for was Juith Stacey, who was like since issued lots 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:20.640 of public statements condemning the condemning what you know, Family 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:25.120 Research Council advocates for, and has endlessly requested that anti 0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:29.240 gay groups to stop mr misrepresenting her work. Um. Yeah, 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.280 so we're gonna jump forward to two US and eight, uh, 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:36.640 because this is this is of course, the election of 0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:39.560 Obama has really kind of frightened a lot of people. 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:42.800 This is when Dobson sent out that letter detailing like 0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.520 what a post Obama future could be, in which he 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:49.640 included gay marriage as a part of like the dystopian 0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.440 night mare. He was imagining, this is the future that 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:57.160 gay people want. Yeah, an interesting it was just an 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:01.680 interesting thing on spring Here he was, he was he 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.120 was on MSNBC again, which I mean, maybe we should stop, 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:06.479 maybe we should stop inviting these people onto new his channels, 0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:11.120 But anyway, um Springs responding, Springue responded to a question 0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:15.000 about allowing non American same sex partners um of American 0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.480 citizens to immigrate into the States by saying I would 0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:20.280 prefer that we export homosexuals from the United States rather 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.400 than import to them UM and saying I think there 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:26.400 would be a place for criminal sanctions on homosexual behavior 0:30:26.880 --> 0:30:29.400 um and then when asked, so should we outlaw gay behavior, 0:30:29.680 --> 0:30:33.040 Spruce said yes, so yeah. It's it's like it's very 0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:34.880 much a clear kind of mask off thing is that 0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.720 they just don't they just don't want it around at all. 0:30:37.840 --> 0:30:40.000 And an idea I'm going to tie this kind of 0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:42.200 more towards towards the end of the series with the 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.280 trans stuff. Is like the idea of queerness has like 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:49.880 a contagion. Um, these people having to like the brutality 0:30:50.040 --> 0:30:52.200 is justified in their own heads because they it's like 0:30:52.280 --> 0:30:56.040 this idea that queerness can spread and it can infect children, 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:58.160 so you have to you have to contain it, and 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.440 any action taken against it is justified because it's like 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:04.600 you're containing a virus, and it's like this is really 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:08.840 what kind of makes them feel so justified and righteous 0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:13.200 in every action they do. So yeah, including out including 0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:15.760 outlaw and gay gay people could have you know, exporting 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:18.560 them from the United States, you know, a blatantly fascist idea. 0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:25.240 So yeah, um uh I. F ARC also worked unsuccessfully 0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:29.200 to continue they don't ask, don't tell policy. Um, this 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.000 was up until like two US and ten, So that 0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:34.600 was that was a bit definitely another thing that they 0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:37.360 tried to focus on. But the slide, you know, the 0:31:37.400 --> 0:31:40.840 progressive side, actually was happening around that time. You know 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:47.840 something interesting about that, yeah earlier today Yeah oh yeah, 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:51.120 So I was again looking at Heritage Foundation because that 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:53.960 was the Heritage Foundation was like my big kind of 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:56.320 go to when I was growing up in the nineties 0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:58.760 and two thousands and doing speech and debate and apologetics. 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:02.360 Campaign all that ship and um, I was like, well, 0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:05.920 what was their take on Donuts Don't Tell? And they 0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.800 in the early nineties, we're very very against it. Yeah, 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.840 in ninety three they had like this paper published and 0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:17.960 they were very against it because they were like, well, 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:21.840 then you won't then you'll still have gay people in 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.920 the military. Yeah, absolutely in the military. Yes, they're like, 0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.200 they will. There will be like, it will be bad 0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:31.560 for the unit cohesion, there will be sexual abuse, as 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.360 if that wasn't already happening. There will be like all 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:38.800 of these terrible things happening in the military that couldn't 0:32:38.880 --> 0:32:42.480 possibly happen, couldn't possibly be happening otherwise, it will like 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:46.720 we can combat effectiveness is the line that Family Research 0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:50.800 Council used. Yeah. Yeah, So there was definitely a shift 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:52.520 in like the nineties where a lot of these evangelical 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:55.440 groups were against Donuts Don't Tell because yeah, it's still 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:57.240 allowed gay people and just that they didn't say anything. 0:32:57.760 --> 0:33:00.360 But then as they saw progress happening there like Okay, 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.840 this is better than nothing like this, this is better 0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:05.880 than them being openly gay, So they kind of switched 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:09.920 gears towards UM which is you know, they're just like 0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:13.920 grasping at anything they can. Um, I think, what's time 0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:15.640 for another break and then we will kind of finish 0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:20.280 this off with some other not fun information. But yeah, 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:22.720 let's let's let's do let's let's do let's let's do 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:24.719 it at. Let's let's see, let's see what our our 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:30.440 lovely sponsors at has to say. Well, this big thing 0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:36.200 is trying to get volunteers together to raid it's child 0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:40.520 hunting island off the coast of Indonesia, a counter raid. Yeah, yeah, 0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:42.680 you can. You can volunteer to go fight in Ukraine, 0:33:42.800 --> 0:33:46.160 or you can volunteer to help take down it's child 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:48.400 hunting island so that you can run it. You know, 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:50.360 it would be fun to have all of the food 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.840 delivery services have their own private militias that take the world. 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.040 We're moving towards garrison. I mean the post office already 0:33:57.120 --> 0:34:01.600 does so, right, not the companies. Yeah, yeah, arm everybody. 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:05.920 Everything should be a military. That's the whatever podcast this is, 0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:12.600 and we're back and we are still talking about my 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:15.640 favorite topic, which is the Family Research Council. During the 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:20.399 twelve election cycle, they donated about two two thousand dollars 0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:24.760 to eighty federal Republican candidates UM, saying that they're using 0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:27.840 the money to UH to strategically be used to support 0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:31.719 pro family candidates and pro family issues and elections and 0:34:31.760 --> 0:34:35.320 valid incentives across the country. Yeah, so this is just 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:37.759 you know, in terms of you know, keep keep the 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.480 keep keep the pro pro family angle in mind. You know, 0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:44.320 this is that they continuously were always donating money to 0:34:44.520 --> 0:34:46.960 two US and twelve was the highest one on on 0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.440 record UM and I think I don't think they've even 0:34:50.520 --> 0:34:52.480 matched that since then. It was it was pretty high 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:54.560 because that was that was Obama's second term. So they 0:34:54.600 --> 0:34:58.279 were definitely like trying to really really organize, right because 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:00.760 this this this is like right but right before when 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:02.440 the Supreme Court was going to be ruling on gay 0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.440 marriage as well, so of course which digit didn't get finalist, 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.000 but they were starting to hear cases. We're gonna let's go, 0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:11.359 We're going to kind of briefly go back to to UH. 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:16.359 To James Dobson here, reference of people are people who 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:18.680 do not listen to the behind the bastards once. He's 0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:23.560 an evangelical Christian author and self proclaimed psychologist who who 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:26.120 if you if you don't know who James Dobson is, 0:35:26.200 --> 0:35:28.640 please preserve your innocence and just quit, like, just go 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:32.239 enjoy it. I don't know now forever now, I just 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.160 don't know, God I do. I do love the idea 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:38.960 of a self proclaimed psychologist. That's that's that's the energy 0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:44.560 child psychologists, just like I know what kids need. They 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:47.480 need to be on Hunting Island, you know. And and 0:35:47.640 --> 0:35:52.600 this guy doesn't even believe in like child's about Like no, 0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:55.719 he doesn't held development. But also you do know that 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.480 I'm getting a PhD in para psychology, right, I know, Garrison, 0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:01.840 We're paying for it. This podcast is going to have 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:05.480 the highest rate of doctors of any podcast on the 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:08.440 internet other than the one that our friend does. Anyway, 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.680 I will be happy to be invited back onto Cova's 0:36:11.719 --> 0:36:14.279 podcast as a doctor in para psychology. I think I'll 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:20.440 be able to offer some really unique insights. Okay, Anyway, 0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.040 Dobson founded Focus of Family in nineteen seventy seven, which 0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:26.080 is unfortunate because he could have just watched Star Wars, 0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:31.759 but instead he that is that is a key part 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:35.920 of this ideology. Um, yeah, he was. He's he's a 0:36:35.920 --> 0:36:39.640 founding He's a founding member of several um T lgbt 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:43.000 hit groups, UM Family Research councilor being one of them, 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:48.440 also a lot. He is a founder of Alliance Defending Freedom. Um. 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:52.919 So yeah, he got he got, he got two under 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:56.479 his belt. Um. The the organization, which is now based 0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:59.640 in Arizona, became a very powerful kind of fundraising behemouth 0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:04.239 dedicated to fighting so called marriage like marriage equality for 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:09.279 for queer people and trans inclusive nondiscrimination protections. Um and 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.279 with a big part of the thing that they were 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:15.040 fighting for was enshrining a quote right to discriminate against 0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:17.480 LGBTQ people in state laws, which is, you know, all 0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:20.520 the stuff around like you know what if a baker 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:22.560 is forced to bake a cake for you know, all 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:27.600 of this nonsense is what so that that that is 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:30.440 so like that that that is that that is Dobson 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:35.200 He started that kind of thing. Yeah, so I'm gonna 0:37:35.320 --> 0:37:38.160 I'm gonna now have a little fun though, because when 0:37:38.200 --> 0:37:40.239 we want to jump ahead a little bit just to 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.560 kind of get the rhetoric kind of nailed down on 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:47.040 what on what kind of house stuff we we're gonna 0:37:47.040 --> 0:37:49.600 start shifting towards the trans stuff at this point. Um. 0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:55.040 But um, after after the Supreme Court ruling for nationwide 0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:58.399 kind of marriage equality. Um Dobson has had this had 0:37:58.440 --> 0:38:02.279 this beautiful, beautiful quote. I had this black cloud over 0:38:02.360 --> 0:38:05.280 me on June twenty six when that decision was handed 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:08.720 down and I was contemplating this foreboding. This black clowd 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:10.880 to hit me like a ton of bricks. The decision 0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:13.280 was not really about gay marriage. It's not. It's about 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:16.279 everything else. It's about the entire culture war. It's about 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:18.640 it's about control of the public schools, and it's about 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:21.040 what's happening in universities. It's about the economy, and it's 0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:23.640 about what businesses, and it's about the military, and it's 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:26.920 about medicine. It's about everything. We lost the entire culture 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:29.279 war without one decision. The gay marriage thing was just 0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:31.280 a part of it. But it's going to touch every dimension. 0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:39.359 So I wish that was true. But in terms of yes, 0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:42.000 in terms of kind of how this gets expanded to 0:38:42.160 --> 0:38:47.120 like businesses, schools, universities, medicine. I just love the histrionics 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.960 that they started kind of focusing on in terms of like, well, 0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:53.520 we lost this culture war. I guess we got to 0:38:53.520 --> 0:38:55.120 move on to the next one, which is you know, 0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:58.280 the even more freakish thing, which is, oh, kids wanting 0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:00.720 to kids realizing that may be they have a different 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:03.120 views on gender. So that's the next kind of like 0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:08.400 rotating target, that that that they that they move moved towards. 0:39:08.600 --> 0:39:14.960 So yeah. Um. Earlier that year, Dobson laid laid bare 0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:17.560 his his fundamental confusion on what it means to be 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:20.400 a LGBT um. He claimed on his radio show that 0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:23.480 being bisexual meant that you have orgies, should mean not 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:41.200 yes yes um. He also blamed uh in two US twelve. 0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:43.480 He also blamed the two US in twelve Sandy Hook 0:39:43.520 --> 0:39:48.000 massacre on a queer people because because they should the 0:39:48.120 --> 0:39:51.840 nation turned turned their back on God. It allowed it 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:53.640 allowed judgments to fall on us, which is why I 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:55.560 said that happened. That's one of the interesting splits in 0:39:55.560 --> 0:39:57.040 the right between the people who think it's fake and 0:39:57.040 --> 0:39:59.480 the people who thought it was queer people's fault. Yes, yeah, 0:39:59.560 --> 0:40:03.120 it's is there. Yeah, they've all come back together now, 0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:04.360 But it was it was a real it was a 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:06.560 real split. And one of one of the other great 0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:09.360 things about Dobson is so after my Behind the Bastard's 0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:12.000 episodes on Dobson, like literally, like the day after it dropped. 0:40:12.000 --> 0:40:15.480 I found this extra little disturbing nugget of info about him, 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:18.440 um in a in an old blog post titled is 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:23.840 my child Becoming homosexual? Dobson recommends Dobson recommends things that 0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:27.000 a father can do to help his child fix homosexual 0:40:27.080 --> 0:40:33.040 symptoms fix sorry, including taking your child into the shower 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:40.160 with you to compare penises of Yeah, it is not good. 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:44.120 I will I will quote from I will quote from 0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:47.960 the blog. Um. The boy's father has to do his part. 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.759 He needs to mirror and affirm his son's male nous. 0:40:51.040 --> 0:40:52.839 He can play rough and tumble games with his son 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:55.120 in ways that are decidedly different from the games he 0:40:55.120 --> 0:40:57.319 would play with a little girl. He can help us 0:40:57.360 --> 0:40:59.040 and learn how to throw and catch a ball. He 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.879 can teach him to hown a square put in peg 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:08.640 into a square hole. He could even take his son 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:11.200 into the shower with him where a boy couldn't help. 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:17.560 Notice that dad has a fetus just like his holy bigger. 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:27.120 Oh my god, this reminds me of so that is 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:34.440 a quote by Dr Jim Stuffson, psychologist. Oh my god. Anyway, 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:39.879 I'm sure there's nothing nothing at all to uh, hey, 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:43.320 Jimmy Dabbs, how's your son? Yeah, that's good. How are you? 0:41:43.320 --> 0:41:47.319 Are you talking nothing at all? To kind of interrogate there, 0:41:48.000 --> 0:41:51.479 Um yeah, m hm. The other thing that I really love, 0:41:52.239 --> 0:41:55.279 and by love, I mean don't live, um, is that 0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:59.880 like the only gay people who exist are gay boys. 0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:04.879 Yeahs and by people don't exist at all. Like, yeah, 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:07.200 this is a really interesting thing. It's because it's about 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:12.879 why would Uh, it's about if it happens to a woman, 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:16.160 it's like, oh, well, they're a woman anyway, They're already 0:42:16.200 --> 0:42:18.160 not as good as men. I guess it kind of 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:20.680 makes sense that they would do that. Um, if it 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:24.200 happens to a guy, you're like, well, obviously, like why 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:26.279 would you do that? You're part of the patriarchy. Why 0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:29.480 would you, Like you're supposed to exert power over women? 0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:33.000 What is wrong with you for not wanting that? Like 0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:35.320 there's a whole bunch of other like patriarchal stuff going on, 0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:37.480 and like why they focused on that Also because they 0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:41.120 undeniably find lesbians attractives, like they can't like they can't 0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:43.759 help but find it hot. So they definitely focus it 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:45.760 more on gay men because they find that more gross 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:48.239 because it is like a defiance of patriarchy in like 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:52.040 a different way you but stuff. Yeah, and of course, 0:42:52.120 --> 0:42:55.759 but um well and I think also this is the 0:42:55.840 --> 0:43:00.400 same reason why transmisogyny becomes such a huge sort of 0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:03.439 driver fanti transmove because you know, I mean you see 0:43:03.480 --> 0:43:05.760 this a lot also with we see with non Christian 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:11.480 like transforms too. But like the ultimate sin you can 0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:14.640 commit if if if you if you're a person is 0:43:15.640 --> 0:43:17.719 if like, yeah, the ultimate sin you can commit against 0:43:17.719 --> 0:43:21.640 sort of the family is having someone who being born 0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.520 and being seen as a man and then you know, 0:43:24.640 --> 0:43:26.719 becoming a woman a woman, and that's like that's you 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:28.719 know that, that's that's what trans misogyny is, right, It's 0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:32.040 it's about it's it's the specific kind of trans sexist 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:34.799 trans sexism that you get when you do that, when 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:38.440 you specifically like you know, in in these people's eyes, 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:40.359 it's like you give up being a man and become 0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:43.680 a woman. And these they go ballistic over this because 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:45.880 it's you know, like it's it's it's it's it's rejection 0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:48.080 to patriarchal power. And then you know, and they have 0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:51.719 to do all of this sort of like incredible pathologizing 0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:54.120 to explain why this would happen and ignore just like 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:58.359 this person was always a woman. That's you know, also 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:03.799 like it's it's a condemnation of your misogyny, in your 0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:08.800 misogynistic behavior to like go join you know, the victims 0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:11.759 of our hate. So like it has all of these 0:44:12.040 --> 0:44:14.799 these layers here. Yeah, and it's gonna we're gonna get 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:16.799 like right right right into trend stuff now because yeah, 0:44:17.120 --> 0:44:20.720 in Supreme Court ruling making the same sexual marriage illegal 0:44:20.760 --> 0:44:25.080 throughout the United States, which sent LGBT anti LGBT hate 0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:30.040 groups into a furious reaction. Um, Family Family Research Council 0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.080 was no exception, and it started working in tandem with 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:35.960 other groups to support so called kind of religious liberty, 0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:38.680 you know, laws which allowed people who object to same 0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:41.279 sex to same sex like couples and just you know, 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:44.000 queerness in general, to to deny goods and services to 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:47.560 same sex couples and just you know, queer people in general. 0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:51.359 It is it is very like nonspecific um. So yeah, 0:44:51.760 --> 0:44:56.440 also in Family Research Council faced its own set of scandals. 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.640 Referring to a friend of the pod Josh jugger Um 0:45:01.920 --> 0:45:05.320 was executive who was executive director of the Family Research 0:45:05.400 --> 0:45:09.759 Council action um political arm of the organization. It was 0:45:09.840 --> 0:45:14.720 obviously revealed that he had molested several save the babies 0:45:14.880 --> 0:45:17.440 to your hard drive, several children And yeah, I had 0:45:17.440 --> 0:45:19.840 a lot of had a lot of children on his 0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:23.640 hard drives so much that like even like the FBI 0:45:23.840 --> 0:45:26.319 was kind of surprised how much he had. Like when 0:45:26.760 --> 0:45:29.040 when when the FBI is surprised on how much child 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:34.320 porn you have, You're like, quite, yeah, you are? You 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.600 are when you surprised them? Have you have you read 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:44.320 his his appeal? I have not read. It's basically making 0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:46.160 it out to be like there was this other guy 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:52.640 who had access to that computer. Was his name Josh Tucker. No, 0:45:52.800 --> 0:45:55.359 it's deciding, you're just like he's just like somebody else 0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:59.719 probably did it. It wasn't me. Yeah. So he resigned 0:46:00.000 --> 0:46:03.040 from Family Research Council after posting a brief message on 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:08.880 his website saying that he resigned after events public. I 0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:11.239 think he resigned for a Family Research Council because of 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:18.040 the Ashley Madison Yes, well, yeah, he resigned. Listing listed 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:23.360 listing concerning events as the recent he stopped Ashley Madison 0:46:23.600 --> 0:46:26.279 accounts got hacked and leaked and it was revealing his 0:46:26.640 --> 0:46:29.640 email was also on there. Yes, yeah, yeah, I feel 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:31.160 like that's what we kicked it off. But that was 0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:34.960 around the time that was he didn't get Yeah, his 0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:40.040 sister's case got released to the press. It is it 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:43.640 is frustrating, how Yeah. Definitely the actually Madison thing was 0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:47.160 seen as more of a moral failing than molestian children 0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:50.600 um and having tons of child porn. That was definitely 0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:53.000 like within like the church and within within the kind 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:56.120 of the whole like like church like network. The actually 0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:58.080 Madison thing was seen as much more of a kind 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.880 of like an egregious sin. Well, because that's infidelity and 0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:06.640 that's just like that destroys the entire you know, nuclear family, 0:47:06.760 --> 0:47:15.520 whereas molesting your siblings is just boys doing waste stuff. See, 0:47:15.600 --> 0:47:17.440 I I grew up a boy, and I never I 0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:20.839 never did that. I kind of whether they never did 0:47:20.920 --> 0:47:25.480 that either. So anyway, uh, any real boys right in 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:30.480 and let us know this back to back to Perkins 0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:34.279 um the Perkins was elected head chair of the U 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:39.400 S Commission on International Religious Freedom um IN, which was 0:47:39.480 --> 0:47:43.960 an independent, bipartisan and federal government entity established by US 0:47:44.000 --> 0:47:47.680 Congress to monitor, analyze, and report on threats to religious freedom. 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:52.839 So who sponsored that fucking bill? That's a good question. Uh. 0:47:53.320 --> 0:47:55.919 Over the course of this time, he continued to work 0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:58.719 at the Family Research Council as well UM, including the 0:47:58.760 --> 0:48:03.760 annual Family Research un SOL sponsored UH Values Voter Summit 0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:08.480 been to those which featured President Trump as a speaker 0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:13.680 UM as well as Healthy Human Services Secretary Alexaser. So yeah, 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:16.399 this was the first time a sitting Health and Human 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:19.799 Services secretary was addressed, like gave an address at at 0:48:19.880 --> 0:48:25.720 the gathering UM so. Also at VVS the Values Voter Summit, 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:29.120 they featured an anti trans panel that illustrated the anti 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:33.360 lgbt Q rights shift to kind of storytelling as a 0:48:33.400 --> 0:48:39.520 way to further marginalized trans people's and like next year, 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:45.040 oh god, the the panel hosted like a multiple kind 0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:49.839 of anti transactivists. Um Lynn Mager was there. Um two 0:48:49.920 --> 0:48:51.840 of Maker's children in entify his trans and they no 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:56.040 longer speak to her. Um. Andre van Mole, the co 0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:59.800 chairman Anti lgbt Hate group of the American College of 0:49:00.080 --> 0:49:04.400 Ediatricians Committee on Adolescent Sexuality, used to use like suico 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:09.200 scientific claims, telling the audience that the that that dissidence 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:12.520 from gender dysphoria is the norm, calling that they use 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:14.880 this weird problematic study that LEMPT, like that limpt trans 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:17.960 kids together with non trans kids to study this idea 0:49:18.000 --> 0:49:20.120 of gender identity. It's a whole bunch of like the 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.319 same like you know how like they were like over 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:25.279 two thousands they were they were misusing like research to 0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:27.759 say like, oh, look, how all of these gay people 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:30.360 are all also all pedophiles. Also they have sex with 0:49:30.480 --> 0:49:33.239 kids more often than adults. Like what, No, it's it's 0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:35.560 the same, It's this, it's the same type of thing. Um. 0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:39.600 They also me the false claim that the majority of 0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:42.880 trans kids are also like a diagnosed with autism um, 0:49:42.960 --> 0:49:45.120 which makes it easier for them to be recruited into 0:49:45.200 --> 0:49:48.080 being transgender because they can be tricked because they're autistic. 0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:50.880 You can collect them all. This is like the they 0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:55.040 then diagram of autism causema vaccines is causing trans kids. 0:49:56.840 --> 0:49:59.800 Also also the idea that like trans affirming care causes 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:02.800 or dysphoria, which causes more suicide, as opposed to the 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:07.080 scientific reasoning that affirming care causes less dysphoria, which causes 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:10.120 less suicide. Um, you know, a whole bunch of a 0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:14.759 whole bunch of nonsense stuff feature. You can't expect a 0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:18.080 group that will not acknowledge the fact that having access 0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:22.839 to birth control as a way to prevent abortions would 0:50:22.840 --> 0:50:25.960 acknowledge any of this is real either. Yeah, no, I 0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:30.799 mean The Pedal also featured Cathy Grace Duncan from from 0:50:30.840 --> 0:50:34.080 the Portland, Oregon based Portland Fellowship, which states that it 0:50:34.360 --> 0:50:38.800 offers a freedom to people from homosexuality. UM. Duncan claims 0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:42.080 that she detransitioned and is proof that transitioning is always 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:44.600 wrong because that she de transitions. That means it's proof 0:50:44.640 --> 0:50:48.000 for everybody that everybody should yes, because trans people are 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:51.400 a monolith. Yeah, we're talking more about We're gonna be 0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:55.359 talking more about, um, the sort of how how people 0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:58.560 who do transition get weaponized against trans people. And again 0:50:58.600 --> 0:50:59.920 I also I also need to point out, like you 0:51:00.120 --> 0:51:03.280 just immediately that like most people who do transition, detransition 0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:07.560 because they are under immense social pressure too, because society 0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:10.399 is normously transphobic. And then there are a small number 0:51:10.440 --> 0:51:12.440 of people who do treat who do treat de transition 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.200 because it's not for them and good for them. But yeah, 0:51:15.320 --> 0:51:17.959 they get a very various small minority of those people 0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:20.640 basically get used by people who don't care about them. 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:23.520 Other people get gender firming surgeries and change their minds 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:26.480 about it later. There's this whole movement of you know, 0:51:26.640 --> 0:51:30.480 women who are getting their breast implants removed. What's the difference. 0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:38.480 It's the same picture, Yeah, same picture. Sure. Another really 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:40.800 fun another fun thing I do at least once a 0:51:40.880 --> 0:51:42.440 year as I go onto the focus on the Family 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:46.160 and Family Research Council websites and that look at look 0:51:46.200 --> 0:51:48.919 at their entire like queer section. That's really interesting because 0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:52.239 like all of them around like gay people like is 0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:54.239 is my kid gay? What to do? What to do 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:56.560 with my kids? Gay? Is my is my kids showing 0:51:56.600 --> 0:51:59.359 gay symptoms? Like all the stuff, and then post it's 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:02.160 all like a gender issue, you know, the cult of 0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:04.480 people trying to get your kid to become trans? Is 0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:07.120 my kid trans? Why is my kid dressing up in 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:09.279 girls clothes? It's like it's it's such a it's such 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:12.040 an immediate shift to know if your kid is texing 0:52:12.120 --> 0:52:15.880 transhit all of this homosexual like fear stuff to immediately 0:52:15.960 --> 0:52:19.600 being scared about, like the agenda identity kind of movement, 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:24.040 and like the cult of transgenderism. Um, yeah, it is, 0:52:24.200 --> 0:52:27.360 it is. It is such a stark, stark change. Heritage 0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:29.840 Foundation website is the same. I licked up when they 0:52:29.880 --> 0:52:34.120 added their gender page, and it was in twenty seven, Yeah, exactly. 0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:36.680 That was when they started going after trans things that 0:52:37.000 --> 0:52:40.600 the only thing was like, oh well, it's actually okay 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:44.400 that there's a pay gap between men and women. In seventeen, 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:48.320 they were like trans From eighteen, you see a massive 0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:50.440 explosion in all of these in all of these like 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:53.960 stuff about trans and like trans science, whether it be 0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:56.480 like the whether it be like the answers in Genesis, 0:52:56.560 --> 0:52:58.160 whether it be focused with the family, whether it be 0:52:58.200 --> 0:53:01.080 because the Heritage Foundation, all of this stuff. You can watch, 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:02.960 you watch an immediate shift in the type of stuff 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:05.960 that they start talking about. I will just say I 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:09.800 am a little glad they're doing it, not for reasons 0:53:09.880 --> 0:53:13.080 you think, but because this means that they're their kids 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:15.279 growing up like we grew up, who know that this 0:53:15.480 --> 0:53:18.759 is an option now? Whereas like that is true, we 0:53:18.880 --> 0:53:21.000 didn't know that it was an option until we got out. 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:27.000 Yeah is it's yeah, But you can see the kind 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:29.800 of the switch and stuff. There's a in the in 0:53:29.920 --> 0:53:33.719 a family Research Council pamphlet written by Peter Sprague called 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:37.560 how to Respond to the LGBTQ Movement Publish. People with 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:40.640 gender dysphoria or transgender identities are more likely than the 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:44.000 general population to engage in high risk behaviors, which may 0:53:44.000 --> 0:53:48.000 contribute to psychological disorders or both. The suicide exists among 0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:51.120 those who have already received gender resignment surgery, which exists 0:53:51.160 --> 0:53:54.680 to a siddle tendencies results in an underlying pathology. The 0:53:54.680 --> 0:53:59.520 same people write the script of euphor you but yeah, 0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:02.560 a whole bunch of stuff around like Tom Perkins, Peter Sprig. 0:54:03.040 --> 0:54:05.040 If you just look at all of this stuff, it's um, 0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:09.760 this is such a such an explosion. Uh. Tony Perkins 0:54:09.880 --> 0:54:12.800 wrote a pamphlet called I Have a Girl Brain but 0:54:12.960 --> 0:54:18.480 a boy body, um for for for a Virginia kindergarteners 0:54:19.440 --> 0:54:22.600 like a transgender story thing that he was doing around 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.560 thing For years. Lgbt Q activists wanted to keep the 0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:31.320 goal of luring children into sexual confusion under wraps. But 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:32.920 now that they've hood winked a lot of the country 0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:35.840 on their agenda, these extremists no longer have to hide. 0:54:36.120 --> 0:54:38.640 In fact, they're increasingly bold and even boastful about their 0:54:38.680 --> 0:54:41.840 real intentions of recruiting kids. So in terms of like 0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:44.280 again it's it's it is and it is an infection. 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:46.759 It's a contagion that they're trying to like infect or 0:54:46.840 --> 0:54:49.719 recruit children. Um and again, all of that kind of 0:54:49.800 --> 0:54:53.320 rhetoric is in a post like in a in like 0:54:53.440 --> 0:54:56.080 a in a pamphlet call you know about about trans 0:54:56.280 --> 0:54:57.960 about being trans thaying I have a girl brain but 0:54:58.040 --> 0:54:59.719 in a boy body. It's like the fact that they 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:02.399 the Fredwick is happening, it is going to it's gonna 0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:04.920 convince kids that they fall prey to it. Like it's 0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:07.480 this whole, this whole thing that is such a such 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:11.120 a marked kind of change. Um. You can read, you know. 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:15.920 The other titles include stuff like the regressive cult of Transgenderism. Um, 0:55:16.080 --> 0:55:18.880 all this kind of stuff talking about our country understands 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:20.680 that scientology is a cult, but we don't seem to 0:55:20.800 --> 0:55:23.080 understand is how the much, how much the transition, how 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:27.359 much the transgender movement mirrors cults like scientology. It's it's 0:55:27.400 --> 0:55:28.880 all of it's all of the same, it's all of 0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:31.440 the same stuff. And the transgender cult is a cult. 0:55:31.480 --> 0:55:34.560 It's the best cult I've been in yet rates like 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:39.560 I I feel like we need to nobody will give 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:42.760 me sh I can. I can stop doing my weekly 0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:46.200 injections whenever I want to, and you won't. You won't 0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:52.120 lose your friends, No, I will not. So anyway, not 0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:55.480 at any point, that was kind of the bulk of 0:55:55.560 --> 0:55:58.160 stuff I had gathered around, specifically talking about kind of 0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:01.680 family family, we uch council and how you know, the 0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:07.600 change happened around from all of the stuff around you know, 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:11.000 protecting marriage equality, protecting you know, the psychety of marriage 0:56:11.400 --> 0:56:14.320 to changing It's like it's the same save the children rhetoric, 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:17.480 but now shifted over to gender issues, I mean, the 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:21.160 window because they can't win on the gay issue anymore, 0:56:21.239 --> 0:56:24.080 so they've just got to keep pushing in that direction. 0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:27.279 But it's the same organizing forces. It's the same organizations, 0:56:27.400 --> 0:56:30.279 it's the same mailing lists, it's the same pamphlets, it's 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:32.040 the same writers, right, it's all the people who wrote 0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.160 all the same stuff, just moving it over to trans things. 0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:37.760 So I just wanted to kind of lay this groundwork 0:56:37.840 --> 0:56:39.759 for us when we when we talk about kind of 0:56:39.760 --> 0:56:41.960 the ongoing legislative fight against trans people in these next 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:43.480 few episodes. I just wanted to kind of lay this 0:56:43.640 --> 0:56:46.320 out for an example of talking about Yeah, it is 0:56:46.360 --> 0:56:50.000 really just you know, there was all these fears around 0:56:50.040 --> 0:56:52.359 you know, gay people in the change rooms, gay people 0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:55.160 in the bathrooms just gets shifted over to trans people 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:57.320 in change rooms, trans people in the bathrooms. It's just this, 0:56:57.520 --> 0:57:00.320 it's the just moving. It's just this like this running 0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:02.520 of the clock that just shifts it over to the 0:57:02.560 --> 0:57:07.480 transgender o' clock. I don't know what before, but it's 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:11.000 easier to like to pull parental. Right, stuff is on 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:13.919 the rise in the in this community as a talking point, 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:15.960 and it's always easier to pull that in with trans 0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:20.200 issues than it is with gay issues. Yes, well I 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:23.600 think that we are running out of time. But even Curan, 0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:28.160 where can people find you online? Our podcast is the 0:57:28.240 --> 0:57:30.760 Kitchen Table Cults. You can find it at Kitchen Table 0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:34.480 cult dot com. Um our handle on Twitter is kitchen 0:57:34.520 --> 0:57:38.040 could Pod. I'm at blue Pep Boy on Twitter, and 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:42.720 I'm at even Underscore at ginger um. I would also recommend, like, 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:46.360 if you want to have a like you know, trans 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:51.080 authors take on the transition. The novel De transition Baby 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:55.160 is out there, It exists, is again one person's takes. 0:57:55.160 --> 0:57:58.000 It's not a monolithic thing, but it's a it's a 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:00.600 good novel. Um. And then if you want to learn 0:58:00.680 --> 0:58:04.600 more about the effects of the deconversion therapy universe, UM, 0:58:04.880 --> 0:58:09.520 Gary Conley's book Boy Race is fucking great. Yep, agreed. Um. 0:58:09.960 --> 0:58:12.280 I always want to thank you both for coming on 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:15.280 to talk about again one of one of the most 0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:19.400 fun topics. Our favorite people near and dear to near 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.960 and dear to all of our hearts with featuring friends 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:25.360 of the pod James Dobson and his urge to take 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:27.760 his kids in the shower with them to compare penises, 0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:33.560 and our good friend Josh Dogger. Um, Save save the children. 0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:39.240 Not like that? That all right, that's the That's the episode. 0:58:51.960 --> 0:58:54.680 Welcome Deck could happen here a podcast about the war 0:58:54.760 --> 0:58:59.440 against trans people. I'm your host, Christopher Wong. In February, 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:03.200 a camp of indigenous and ecological protesters attempting to stop 0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:06.400 the Thacker past lithium mine in Nevada was thrown into 0:59:06.480 --> 0:59:11.360 chaos over an unexpected issue, transphobia. Two of the camp activists, 0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:13.720 including a man who had volunteered to act as an 0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:16.680 attorney for the group, revealed to be members of another 0:59:16.800 --> 0:59:22.000 organization called Deep Green Resistance or DGR. Nominally, Deep Green 0:59:22.080 --> 0:59:26.320 Resistance is an ecological organization dedicated to destroying industrial society 0:59:26.400 --> 0:59:29.240 to preserve the environment through promoting the destruction of dams 0:59:29.280 --> 0:59:33.000 and other infrastructure. Deep Green Resistance found little success on 0:59:33.080 --> 0:59:35.680 this front, but they have been much more successful in 0:59:35.720 --> 0:59:39.800 spreading the other core of their ideology, miligiant, ruthless and 0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:44.360 fanatical transphobia. When the Indigenous protesters at Thacker Pass discovered 0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:47.200 the twos membership in DGR and the result in transphobia, 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:51.439 they were furious. Falk the DGR lawyer who had offered 0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:54.120 to represent the protesters, was kicked off the case, and 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:56.680 the presence of the two d g R members was 0:59:56.840 --> 0:59:59.520 used by Lithium America as a weapon against the protesters. 1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:03.360 This is a familiar cycle for Deep Green Resistance. Soon 1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:06.920 afterwards founding in two thousand eleven, the group fully embraced 1:00:07.040 --> 1:00:10.280 radical feminism, staking out a position in an old debate 1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:13.520 inside the feminist movement raging since the nineteen seventies over 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:17.720 whether trans women are in fact women. These feminists, I 1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:21.000 used the term loosely here became known as trans exclusionary. 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:25.760 Radical feminists or turfs through heroes were people like Janis Raymond, 1:00:26.080 --> 1:00:30.640 author of the vehemently transphobics Greed the Transsexual Empire. Raymond, 1:00:30.720 --> 1:00:34.200 whose BaFL influence will return to next episode, was largely 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:36.480 ran out of the mainstream American feminist movement with the 1:00:36.520 --> 1:00:39.720 rest of her turf companions. A similar fate would befall 1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:44.560 Deep Green Resistance. Ecological activists in groups like Earth First, 1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:47.280 Green Peace, the i w W, and the Broader Green 1:00:47.320 --> 1:00:51.440 Anarchist Movement. Cists and trans alike ran d g R 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:54.480 out of the ecological left for the transphobia, and waged 1:00:54.520 --> 1:00:58.920 an incredibly successful no platforming campaign against d g r's founders, 1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:02.560 Derek jens in In Leary Keith. Driven from the left 1:01:02.640 --> 1:01:05.280 so thoroughly they were reduced to slinking into protest camps 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:08.440 in secret, only to be expelled upon discovery. Members of 1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:12.160 Deep Groom Resistance moved right and increasingly to other countries 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:15.560 to seek an audience for the transphobic bile. Leary Keith 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:19.080 founded a turf organization called the Women's Liberation Front or WOLF. 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:23.120 More on them later. This brings us a turf extraordinaire, 1:01:23.240 --> 1:01:26.200 Jennifer Billock Black could have been a member of Deep 1:01:26.240 --> 1:01:29.240 Groom Resistance in charge of booking appearances for Derrick Jensen. 1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:32.160 The success of indow platform in campaign waged by the 1:01:32.240 --> 1:01:34.720 left confessor that trans people were secretly backed by a 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:39.160 conspiracy of billionaires. This idea spread like wildfire across the UK, 1:01:39.520 --> 1:01:44.080 and as well discussed next episode Mexico. To understand what 1:01:44.160 --> 1:01:46.800 happened in the UK, we spoke with Krista Peterson, a 1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:51.560 graduate student at USC who, at significant personal cost, confronted 1:01:51.600 --> 1:01:55.600 the rise and spread of transphobia and the English speaking world. Krista, 1:01:55.840 --> 1:01:58.280 Welcome to the show and thank you for joining us. Hi, 1:01:58.480 --> 1:02:02.920 thank you. I guess wanted to start with Jennifer Billick 1:02:03.200 --> 1:02:07.920 and talking a bit about how how she sort of 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:14.960 moved into increasingly increasingly transpoblic territory and I guess how 1:02:15.080 --> 1:02:18.640 she started moving into the sort of follow the money 1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:23.200 conspiracy theories that she's been peddling for the past several 1:02:23.360 --> 1:02:26.440 years now. Yeah, So I give you her narrative of 1:02:26.560 --> 1:02:29.520 this UM, which is that in two thousand thirteen, I 1:02:29.600 --> 1:02:33.200 think she was supposed to be on a panel UM 1:02:33.560 --> 1:02:40.440 about big trans people UM that was canceled because of 1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:44.800 pushback UM and then because of that, she thought what 1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:47.560 is the big force behind this and then got into 1:02:47.640 --> 1:02:52.640 it from there. UM. But she has really I think 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:55.720 you know that Deep Green Resistance was kind of into 1:02:56.480 --> 1:03:00.440 UM focusing on trans people for a while. UM, but 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:04.200 she really has gone from an environmental activist as someone 1:03:04.240 --> 1:03:07.200 who's just solely focused on dreads people. It's basically all 1:03:07.280 --> 1:03:10.920 she is ever talking about. UM, and she's kind of 1:03:12.200 --> 1:03:17.960 she started as opposing this kind of existential threat UM 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:22.160 that was real, which was ecological destruction to collagon UM, 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:25.240 and she has kind of maintained that tenor in the 1:03:25.320 --> 1:03:28.760 shift where now she's portraying this as an existential threat, 1:03:28.800 --> 1:03:32.040 but instead of climate change, it's transpeople. So the way 1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:36.200 she got into the money UM, she's just a very prolific, 1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:40.080 kind of at home researcher UM, and she kind of 1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:43.600 had this anti corporate mindset going in from her background, 1:03:44.480 --> 1:03:48.840 and she she produces a lot of research. There's not 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:52.320 that many people in the gender critical movement probably producing 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:55.400 a lot of original content, and so when someone is 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:58.720 there's really they can get a lot of uptake from that. UM. 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:02.320 Her mate her saying was it actually a federalist article 1:04:03.040 --> 1:04:08.680 about who are the rich white men institutionalizing transgender ideology. Um, 1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:13.040 and just by being a pretty big platform. I think 1:04:13.160 --> 1:04:16.320 that got some big initial distribution, and I think that 1:04:16.440 --> 1:04:20.160 was how people initially started seeing her kind of beyond 1:04:20.360 --> 1:04:24.800 the deep green resistance type audience. Yeah. No, I mean 1:04:24.880 --> 1:04:27.400 that's one of the things that that's been very interesting 1:04:27.440 --> 1:04:29.560 to be studying this is that you see this a lot. 1:04:29.880 --> 1:04:33.880 You see a lot of people who we're sort of 1:04:33.960 --> 1:04:37.640 run out of left by their transphobia, like pivoting really 1:04:37.720 --> 1:04:40.480 hard right and then using right wing media platforms and 1:04:40.640 --> 1:04:45.120 using sort of also writing political backing to start pushing 1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:49.760 this stuff. And I think, yeah, Bill looks interesting example 1:04:49.840 --> 1:04:54.280 to me, because yeah, she acs you're talking a bit 1:04:54.400 --> 1:04:59.160 about this moreman, she has this weird because she she 1:04:59.240 --> 1:05:01.000 has too weird and goal she has the weird trans 1:05:01.080 --> 1:05:08.320 humanism angle, and then she has this like incredibly like 1:05:08.720 --> 1:05:12.880 when becomes like an increasingly anti semitic angle. Yeah. So 1:05:13.640 --> 1:05:16.200 where she so she's following the money is the original thing? 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:20.200 Where she follows the money too, is um, trans rights 1:05:20.320 --> 1:05:24.120 are a conspiracy to usher and trans humanism. Um. So 1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:27.880 her thing is she often says transgender is an ad 1:05:27.960 --> 1:05:30.960 campaign for trans humanism. This is a quote. To get 1:05:31.000 --> 1:05:35.040 people comfortable with actual emerging with machines slash air ai, 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:39.240 there must be a complete dissociation for biological reality. So 1:05:39.880 --> 1:05:41.960 you see this a lot with conspiracy theories, I think, 1:05:42.280 --> 1:05:46.160 where you have this kind of like metaphorical goal, right, 1:05:46.200 --> 1:05:49.760 where it's all about getting people to dissociate from their bodies. 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:52.520 It's like not very clear what that looks like when 1:05:52.520 --> 1:05:58.320 an actual causal level. Yeah, but that's that's the big goal, right, um, 1:05:59.600 --> 1:06:01.520 and then they need a big goal. It's there's kind 1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:06.720 of this mysterious part of this supposed conspiracy UM that 1:06:06.920 --> 1:06:10.040 is trans rights, which is like what is this for? Right? 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:12.960 They lots of people now are accepting that there's like 1:06:13.080 --> 1:06:17.160 this big dark money push behind it, um, which raises 1:06:17.160 --> 1:06:20.920 the question why what what is this doing? Um? And 1:06:21.200 --> 1:06:25.360 the answers are kind of cookie right, So this one 1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:30.840 has caught on more than I would have expected. It's 1:06:30.920 --> 1:06:36.600 really weird. So they kind of walk into it slowly, right. 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:40.280 They start off and it's they think there's something weird 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:45.440 with trans rights, and they have it's very common for 1:06:45.520 --> 1:06:49.560 them to think that their opponents don't really believe their beliefs. Um, 1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:52.640 something is up and for some reason all these people 1:06:52.680 --> 1:06:57.400 are supporting trans rights. What they know it's bad that 1:06:57.840 --> 1:06:59.760 you need you need something to go in there to 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:04.920 played why. And this is a narrative that fits with 1:07:05.440 --> 1:07:08.480 Billick's worldview. You know, you can see how some with 1:07:08.520 --> 1:07:11.520 her background would get here. It's kind of unusual for 1:07:12.480 --> 1:07:15.800 all these ladies from the UK now to believe that 1:07:16.600 --> 1:07:20.959 trans people are trans human conspiracy, but they needed something 1:07:21.040 --> 1:07:24.640 to go there as the goal they picked it up. Yeah, 1:07:24.720 --> 1:07:27.400 I guess I guess we should get into Mom's net 1:07:27.440 --> 1:07:32.560 a little bit because most that's a really weird, like 1:07:33.000 --> 1:07:38.640 specifically UK thing that I don't know if there's like 1:07:38.720 --> 1:07:40.800 there's not really an American equivalent to it, Like I 1:07:40.840 --> 1:07:42.800 guess it's like it's like it's like what if you 1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:48.040 took the worst parts of Facebook ends next door? I guess. Yeah. 1:07:48.120 --> 1:07:50.240 Can you talk a little bit about like what Mom's 1:07:50.320 --> 1:07:54.919 Net is and how this stuff sorted sorted seeping into it? Yeah, 1:07:55.000 --> 1:07:56.920 So this is part of this bigger question, which is 1:07:57.000 --> 1:08:00.480 like why in the UK has taken off so much 1:08:00.520 --> 1:08:02.840 in the way it has a big part of that 1:08:02.920 --> 1:08:06.800 story is moms That, which is a website for moms 1:08:07.200 --> 1:08:11.000 um to ask kind of parenting questions UM, and it's 1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:14.640 really widely used, I think, especially among this kind of 1:08:14.760 --> 1:08:20.560 like white, upper middle class educated population. A lot of 1:08:20.640 --> 1:08:22.960 people are on moms and it's kind of a trusted 1:08:23.000 --> 1:08:26.080 website for a lot of familial type things like advice 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:28.639 about what to do when your kid has life, things 1:08:28.680 --> 1:08:33.120 like that, and Moms has become just like the main 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:37.360 infection point I think in the gender critical movement that okay, 1:08:38.320 --> 1:08:41.680 with why it happens more generally, you have to look 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:44.800 at it as kind of part of this global resurgence 1:08:45.000 --> 1:08:47.760 and fascism around the same time period. It's like the 1:08:47.880 --> 1:08:53.400 mids on UM, you know, like the most obvious instances 1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:57.400 of that have the kind of traditional fascist targets and ideals. UM. 1:08:57.479 --> 1:09:00.360 I think what's essential is this kind of logic that 1:09:00.479 --> 1:09:03.200 you really see in the gender critical movement also, which 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:05.720 as you have this kind of background climate of anxiety 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:09.840 and fear, then you get this narrative that's minorities are 1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:14.000 rising up against you. You've lost something, your identity used 1:09:14.000 --> 1:09:16.479 to give you a special status, and now they're taking 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:18.479 it from you and you have to fight back. UM. 1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:21.600 And it's how they've kind of switched out, like what 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:24.439 the big identity is who the minorities are, what the 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:28.320 special status is with this more feminist thing. But it 1:09:28.400 --> 1:09:32.320 really does have that kind of internal logic in the 1:09:32.439 --> 1:09:35.960 same way. Um, And I think you just had this 1:09:36.120 --> 1:09:40.360 kind of moment globally where you have the kind of 1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:44.519 background emotional state that was ripe for fascism in a 1:09:44.600 --> 1:09:48.600 lot of ways, and then this ideology was just infectious 1:09:49.320 --> 1:09:51.960 in that way. And then in Mom's night it was 1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:55.680 able to catch um and it really provided run it 1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:59.599 with this place where really grow uh into this kind 1:09:59.640 --> 1:10:05.840 of a waal demographic group or a kind of fascist moment. Yeah, 1:10:06.000 --> 1:10:08.200 I mean, I think there's there's there's an interesting I 1:10:08.240 --> 1:10:09.920 think there's The other interesting thing to me about it 1:10:10.080 --> 1:10:12.400 is like, I don't know, I've been thinking about this 1:10:12.479 --> 1:10:16.640 a lot in terms of, yeah, why why specifically the 1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:21.720 UK and why the US doesn't have this? And I mean, 1:10:21.800 --> 1:10:24.120 I mean, you know, I mean, I guess one one 1:10:24.200 --> 1:10:27.519 explanation for it partly is like the US is so 1:10:27.640 --> 1:10:30.080 much more religious than the UK is and a lot 1:10:30.120 --> 1:10:32.160 of these people sort of would have been evangelicals in 1:10:33.200 --> 1:10:36.479 like in the US. But but yeah, I think the 1:10:36.920 --> 1:10:41.880 months that angles interesting to me in that it really 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:48.160 seems like because there's so few people publishing anything that's 1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:52.080 even remotely tangible, like a very very small number of 1:10:52.160 --> 1:10:55.559 actors were able to very quickly radicalize people. And I think, 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:58.439 I don't know, and I think it's interesting that like 1:10:59.080 --> 1:11:02.479 like people like Jesse gall like I think, wind up 1:11:02.520 --> 1:11:05.080 being much more influential in the UK than they are 1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:06.560 in the U s even so they're getting sort of 1:11:07.280 --> 1:11:13.920 published in these US publications because there's sort of I 1:11:13.960 --> 1:11:16.160 don't know, I guess there's there's this like hunger for 1:11:16.400 --> 1:11:18.760 it on Mom's naight, like for for anything that sort 1:11:18.800 --> 1:11:20.360 of supports his world view in a way that there's 1:11:20.479 --> 1:11:23.200 kind of wasn't in the US. I think part of why, 1:11:23.400 --> 1:11:27.479 like the y UK question, there's some part of it 1:11:27.600 --> 1:11:31.519 that's just kind of by chance moms that existed was 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:34.320 a place where it could really take off. But I 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:38.120 think also to some extent, like you're aldic to think 1:11:40.120 --> 1:11:43.120 kind of part of the relevant group in the US 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:47.600 is like a little more inoculated against this stuff. I 1:11:47.680 --> 1:11:50.280 mean that it doesn't really have the same initial appeal 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:55.240 among women who would like to contrue construe themselves as 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:59.439 feminists because many many Americans see anti trend stuff and 1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:02.800 immediately um connected to like the religious right, So it 1:12:02.880 --> 1:12:07.080 doesn't you don't really get the initial way into it 1:12:07.240 --> 1:12:11.280 where you know, you come across this thing presenting transpeople 1:12:11.439 --> 1:12:15.040 as encroaching on your space and taking something from you, 1:12:15.479 --> 1:12:18.120 and for us, we see that and it's like, oh yeah, 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:21.519 bathroom bill laws really just had this a few years 1:12:21.560 --> 1:12:24.920 ago and it was this right wing religious thing. We 1:12:25.040 --> 1:12:27.680 know what this is. The UK has kind of had 1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:31.800 a more prominent turf act division for a little while 1:12:31.880 --> 1:12:35.360 in that Julie Bendel kind of long ben a thing there, 1:12:36.080 --> 1:12:38.600 but it wasn't really catching in the same way it 1:12:38.760 --> 1:12:41.600 is now really caught. Yeah, I guess, I mean, what 1:12:41.680 --> 1:12:43.120 are the other things that I was talking I had 1:12:43.120 --> 1:12:47.879 an interesting conversation that sadly didn't wind up getting recorded, 1:12:47.920 --> 1:12:50.880 but I was talking with some Mexican feminists, like trans 1:12:50.920 --> 1:12:52.320 feminist about this, and one of the things they were 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:55.120 saying was the way like talking about the way like 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:58.080 intersectionality is a framework and the fact that there was 1:12:58.160 --> 1:13:00.160 there was an incredibly strong black feminist current in the 1:13:00.320 --> 1:13:05.760 US insulated like the main line of of American feminism 1:13:06.200 --> 1:13:08.679 from this stuff in a way that didn't really happen 1:13:08.720 --> 1:13:12.200 in the UK because like the black feminist movement there 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:16.960 is just not as strong and not as sort of mainstream, 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.599 and that has this knock on effect. I guess we're 1:13:19.680 --> 1:13:24.960 like you get you know, without an intersectionality framework, is 1:13:24.960 --> 1:13:27.840 it's easier to have this sort of like totalizing like 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:31.320 identity of like the woman as like a thing that's 1:13:31.400 --> 1:13:34.120 just one object that you can like pin down to 1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:36.960 biological barkers, instead of having to sort of like look 1:13:37.000 --> 1:13:41.439 at all of the different actual relations that are going on. Yes, 1:13:41.560 --> 1:13:44.800 so my read on them is that most of them 1:13:45.640 --> 1:13:48.720 are not really we're not pre existing feminists. There are 1:13:48.760 --> 1:13:52.439 not people who are very interested in women's rights. And 1:13:52.520 --> 1:13:54.720 then kind of took this turn and my pressures that 1:13:54.760 --> 1:13:59.040 they're largely people who really started identifying as feminists once 1:13:59.120 --> 1:14:02.639 that that could be a guys to kind of taking 1:14:02.760 --> 1:14:05.799 things out on trans people. Um, and I think probably 1:14:05.920 --> 1:14:09.720 why it was able to get so big on Mom's Net. 1:14:10.080 --> 1:14:13.439 So eventually the women's rights for my Mom's Net, which 1:14:13.479 --> 1:14:15.840 is just one of those subboards, in addition to all 1:14:15.880 --> 1:14:19.880 the childcare stuff, just became almost all anti trans stuff. 1:14:20.520 --> 1:14:24.519 And so that is partially this stuff was popular, but 1:14:24.640 --> 1:14:27.400 I also I think that you know, normal mainstream feminist 1:14:27.439 --> 1:14:30.200 stuff wasn't as popular and they weren't getting a lot 1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:34.840 of engagement on normal important feminist issues, um, and instead 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:37.280 this was what their user base was really going for. 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:43.360 It's really striking, I think how those exceptions, um. But 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:47.640 in general, the big gender critical people talk very very 1:14:47.720 --> 1:14:51.240 little about all feminist issues, like this is the thing 1:14:51.520 --> 1:14:54.800 they care about always all the time. Yeah, yeah, that's 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:57.080 definitely a pattern. What turfs. So it's like yeah, once once, 1:14:57.240 --> 1:14:59.000 once you're a turf, like this is the only thing 1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:01.840 you care about, Like don't you don't do Yeah, I mean, 1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:03.760 I guess like one of one of the we'll talk 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:06.240 more about this in the next episode, but one of 1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:13.040 the sort of big like flagship things in in like 1:15:13.560 --> 1:15:16.000 with the UK and Ireland, was like a bunch of 1:15:16.080 --> 1:15:20.400 the Turfs getting extremely mad at the at at these end, 1:15:20.439 --> 1:15:23.080 at the at the pro like at the pro abortion 1:15:23.760 --> 1:15:29.040 activists in UH in Ireland because they weren't being Turfs, 1:15:29.160 --> 1:15:31.880 and so the other the Turfs were like, no, no, no, 1:15:32.040 --> 1:15:35.599 we're gonna like try to sabotage this, the actual feminist 1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:39.439 movement trying to get access to abortions because we're turfs 1:15:39.520 --> 1:15:45.120 and they're not. Yeah, they could be really devidictive against 1:15:45.160 --> 1:15:48.559 women who they say are like selling out women's rights 1:15:48.640 --> 1:15:52.560 by focusing on anything other than the tiny present of 1:15:52.600 --> 1:15:56.160 the population that is trans is v one issue you're 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:58.280 allowed to focus on and if you say, like no, 1:15:58.439 --> 1:16:00.960 please please leave us alone, we're focusing on something else. 1:16:02.120 --> 1:16:14.759 Really do not think that wom I guess the everything 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:17.320 I wanted to ask about was because I think the 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:19.439 everything that happened in the UK that only really started 1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:24.000 happening in the US like pretty recently, and even then 1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:27.400 was kind of like it was an event in like 1:16:28.240 --> 1:16:30.439 a way that I don't know how much it was 1:16:30.520 --> 1:16:34.800 in the UK. Is the extent to which like people 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:36.600 like J. K Rowling and like the sort of the 1:16:36.640 --> 1:16:41.320 sort of mainstream of British famous people and like the 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:43.920 British British journalists stuff like that like like start started 1:16:44.000 --> 1:16:49.840 rallying around this stuff. Yeah, this is It's been wild 1:16:50.280 --> 1:16:53.400 for me seeing I don't think super highly of the 1:16:53.600 --> 1:16:57.200 American media, but seeing how much worse the British media 1:16:57.320 --> 1:17:01.519 is really will they just have been publishing stuff things 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:03.880 like The Times of London have been the worst, with 1:17:04.080 --> 1:17:08.439 more conservative Eletto especially bad. But even you know, like 1:17:08.720 --> 1:17:13.120 the Guardian was in some BBC since some uh, these 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:17.360 things are just kind of like demonstrably false coverage of 1:17:17.720 --> 1:17:20.800 transmit stuff that just gives a lot of credence to 1:17:21.120 --> 1:17:26.639 this transphobic movement. UM. It's kind of this like near 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:32.240 blackout of in serious consideration of what trans people are 1:17:32.320 --> 1:17:36.040 experiencing UM and what their actual position on this stuff is. 1:17:36.760 --> 1:17:39.360 It's just really grim. I think I think part of 1:17:39.400 --> 1:17:42.880 it is maybe that moms that did have this reach 1:17:43.080 --> 1:17:46.880 to a lot of people who are like professionals. Their 1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:49.320 audience is pretty professional, and it was it's kind of 1:17:49.400 --> 1:17:53.920 trusted website where this guy normalized a lot. The last 1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:57.400 thing I wanted to talk about before UM we go 1:17:57.520 --> 1:18:00.479 to break is do you want to talk about Kathleen 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:05.800 Stock and that whole thing a little bit? Yes, Okay, 1:18:05.880 --> 1:18:09.160 Also we should talk about um we should connect Billick too. 1:18:09.600 --> 1:18:12.639 Oh yeah yeah, yeah, we should. We should do that first. Yeah. 1:18:12.840 --> 1:18:16.639 So that is there was, you know moms that started UM. 1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:20.800 I think the initial narrative was kind of trans people 1:18:20.840 --> 1:18:24.760 are being really unreasonable, they're really demanding, they're infringing on 1:18:24.840 --> 1:18:28.640 our status. This is the thing that was more localized 1:18:28.640 --> 1:18:33.519 about this group that was easy to cast as unreasonable, um, 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:35.599 and they were able to take kind of a victim's 1:18:35.600 --> 1:18:38.960 stance relative to them. And then it just kind of 1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:41.400 kept estialating, right, it just kind of fiction it too, 1:18:41.439 --> 1:18:43.840 more and more of this kind of content, and then 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:48.720 eventually there, Yeah, there really was a great site, this 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:54.680 kind of anti trans content, and it just got increasingly conspiratorial. 1:18:55.080 --> 1:18:58.880 I think so people at this point, I think almost 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:01.360 everyone in the gender court movement thinks that there's dark 1:19:01.439 --> 1:19:05.040 money behind trans rights. They think it's like some kind 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:10.599 of AstroTurf movement for who knows what. Lots of them 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:15.640 will say the goal is like selling you know, hormones 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:25.760 and surgery to people. What it's funding, you know, a 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:30.280 global conspiracy. It's like pretty expensive and how it's like 1:19:31.200 --> 1:19:37.320 the most plausible way to get an audience for this 1:19:37.439 --> 1:19:41.960 kind of thing. Um. But Jennifer Billick is what a 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:45.760 relatively few people get doing this kind of deep research. Um. 1:19:45.880 --> 1:19:48.960 And so it's just kind of kind of the kind 1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:53.320 of thing they were looking for. And they have pretty 1:19:53.400 --> 1:19:58.000 minimal bullshit filters about what they're willing to see. Um, 1:20:00.560 --> 1:20:05.760 it's just pretty rare that they we'll see a source 1:20:05.800 --> 1:20:07.479 that seems to be on their side and be like, no, 1:20:07.680 --> 1:20:12.080 there's something wrong with us UM. And so she increasingly 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:15.960 got fans and a lot of people hear her stuff secondhand. 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:19.519 I think they're not directivating her, but people are repeating 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:22.040 her on so much of her stuff now is part 1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:26.120 of the just the background of this movement. Like there's 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:29.960 this woman, Martin rothblatt Um who's it's kind of a 1:20:30.120 --> 1:20:34.720 random rich woman who was she was involved in kind 1:20:34.720 --> 1:20:39.880 of early trans rights activism UM, and I kind of 1:20:39.960 --> 1:20:43.960 moved on and got interested in trans humanism stuff instead. 1:20:44.160 --> 1:20:46.920 She's like kind of a stratulating um and she is 1:20:48.240 --> 1:20:52.240 interested in trans humanism stuff and rich um and is 1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:56.680 not the architect of the Transferts movement. But now you know, 1:20:56.720 --> 1:21:00.559 they just all I think that this person has central 1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:02.920 role UM and when you see them talking about her, 1:21:02.920 --> 1:21:06.519 it is Jennifer Billick's influence. And they just don't have 1:21:08.280 --> 1:21:12.840 they're they just don't have many defenses against kind of 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:20.280 increasingly radicalized stuff. And when I started kind of looking 1:21:20.320 --> 1:21:24.720 into Jennifer and I started seeing her and get you know, 1:21:24.760 --> 1:21:27.840 when you see people talking about a conspiracy of people 1:21:27.960 --> 1:21:34.280 like George Soros, Jennifer Printsker Jewish. Roth Blatt is also Jewish. 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:40.400 There there's a red flag and in conspiracy spaces just 1:21:40.520 --> 1:21:44.840 kind of tends towards anti Semitism if you're not on 1:21:44.960 --> 1:21:46.920 the lookout for and if you're not defend against it. 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:53.920 And billicks not and she has gotten increasingly into anti 1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:58.080 Semitic side of things, um, up to the point where 1:21:58.160 --> 1:22:02.839 she was boosting Heath Woods, who is just a Nazi 1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:07.920 his content that was largely inspired by her work UM 1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:11.840 about the Jews behind the transgender movement UM and just 1:22:12.080 --> 1:22:17.080 taking kind of going from its kind of non explicit 1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:21.400 anti Semitic conspiracy theory where you have this group of 1:22:21.479 --> 1:22:24.439 people who happened to be largely filled with Jewish people 1:22:25.640 --> 1:22:30.880 kind of orchestrating this global conspiracy to explicitly naming the 1:22:30.960 --> 1:22:34.519 Jew and saying no, this is a Jewish movement um. 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:39.080 And yeah, and she just like followed it all the way. UM. 1:22:40.120 --> 1:22:43.320 And there was some I started making a big deal 1:22:43.360 --> 1:22:46.200 about this, you know, there was some pushback from the 1:22:46.240 --> 1:22:52.519 general critical movement UM, but largely and they think I'm 1:22:52.600 --> 1:22:54.920 like a bad faith acting right on the enemy. It's 1:22:55.560 --> 1:23:00.840 they're not gonna take anything I say really seriously. Um, 1:23:01.400 --> 1:23:04.080 but also it was really struck by how some of 1:23:04.160 --> 1:23:07.800 them were arguing with me about this Keith Woods video 1:23:08.520 --> 1:23:12.320 that was, you know, about how this was just a 1:23:12.439 --> 1:23:15.639 Jewish pot and why the Jewish religion would inspire uses 1:23:15.720 --> 1:23:18.200 do something like this, and they say, no, this is 1:23:18.200 --> 1:23:21.040 an anti Semitic there's nothing you know, it's just it's 1:23:21.120 --> 1:23:25.559 very interesting it's about Judaism, because they already believed all 1:23:25.600 --> 1:23:27.519 the background stuff, right, they thought that there was in 1:23:27.640 --> 1:23:30.960 fact this conspiracy that's populated by people who happened to 1:23:31.000 --> 1:23:33.759 be Jewish, and so then when you take the explicit step, 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:38.240 it's they're like, well, yeah, there's an interesting question, right, 1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:41.240 why are all these people Jewish interest going all the way. 1:23:41.560 --> 1:23:47.080 But it's just and yeah, it's just in general, the 1:23:47.120 --> 1:23:50.800 movement is just really not have good defenses against this 1:23:50.880 --> 1:23:54.360 kind of stuff at all. And yeah, this kind of 1:23:54.360 --> 1:23:57.080 conspiratorial stuff will take you there if you don't have 1:23:57.280 --> 1:24:02.000 defenses against it. It's just a very old road that 1:24:02.120 --> 1:24:04.680 comes in exactly that direction that is ready for you 1:24:04.920 --> 1:24:06.880 if you start getting into this stuff and aren't watching 1:24:06.920 --> 1:24:09.120 out for it. Yeah, all right, so lets let's let's 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:14.479 let's let's let's talk about Kathleen Stock philosophies horror child. 1:24:15.680 --> 1:24:21.080 Oh no, so I need not just Kathleen, but you have. 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:25.759 One of the things that is noteworthy about the movement 1:24:26.080 --> 1:24:29.240 I think is you have these this unusual prominence of academics, 1:24:29.800 --> 1:24:32.519 one of them being Kathleen Stock, maybe the most prominent 1:24:33.040 --> 1:24:36.160 being Kathleen Stock UM, but also like Rosa Freeman and 1:24:36.240 --> 1:24:40.120 Selena's hod and you have this kind of academic face 1:24:41.400 --> 1:24:44.560 of it. And it's very interesting I think how that 1:24:44.720 --> 1:24:49.439 works UM, and that these people are in generally not 1:24:49.720 --> 1:24:56.120 doing kind of substantive research on anything related to this UM. Instead, 1:24:57.720 --> 1:25:00.240 what I see is, you know, stuff starts out in 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:03.320 the community. UM. It's like on mom's dad, it's on Twitter, 1:25:04.120 --> 1:25:07.600 and then Kathleen Stock picks it up, right, She is 1:25:07.680 --> 1:25:11.679 getting her stuff kind of from mom's dad and stuff, 1:25:11.960 --> 1:25:14.800 and then just legitimizing it. Right. It's like, oh, this 1:25:15.000 --> 1:25:19.680 is what these fancy professors think. And then centrally their 1:25:19.760 --> 1:25:23.240 role is claiming that there are all these serious issues 1:25:23.840 --> 1:25:26.920 on the basis of their academic status UM and saying 1:25:27.040 --> 1:25:29.200 that trans people aren't willing to discuss it. You know, 1:25:29.240 --> 1:25:32.320 trans people are shutting down debate, they're being silenced, and 1:25:32.560 --> 1:25:36.400 it gives it this legitimacy that the movement I think 1:25:36.439 --> 1:25:42.240 really capitalizes on. Yeah, which I think with Stock in particular. 1:25:42.520 --> 1:25:46.760 You know there part part of what's happening is like 1:25:46.960 --> 1:25:50.960 the anti transsequent kind of like moves between different conservative 1:25:50.960 --> 1:25:53.160 panics and so like like the bottom one, they're on 1:25:53.240 --> 1:25:55.720 the stay of the children panic. But when Stock was 1:25:55.760 --> 1:25:58.600 sort of like getting big and you can see this 1:25:58.680 --> 1:26:02.439 with the end of a career arc uh She'll get 1:26:02.439 --> 1:26:04.240 to in a second. But she was big on the 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:09.559 whole sort of like like conservative callus canceled, like college 1:26:09.640 --> 1:26:13.479 free speech crisis, like can I guess sort of cancer 1:26:13.520 --> 1:26:16.760 culture also, But yeah, she was really big on the 1:26:16.880 --> 1:26:19.400 on the whole, like, yeah, the conservatives are being silence 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:20.920 or like not even sort of like I think she 1:26:20.960 --> 1:26:25.840 was kind of doing the like liberal centrist thing, but 1:26:26.040 --> 1:26:29.080 but she was. Yeah, she she was doing all these 1:26:29.160 --> 1:26:35.559 censorship claims and then turning around and just actually censor people. Yeah. Yeah, 1:26:36.760 --> 1:26:43.320 I gave a talk at Sussex cathletex University that I 1:26:43.439 --> 1:26:51.000 believe she tried to have canceled. Come on. It was 1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:54.720 just kind of interesting rix. I. Initially this talk was 1:26:55.320 --> 1:26:57.559 kind of scheduled as a protest at the same time 1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:00.640 as one of her as talks she was going to 1:27:00.720 --> 1:27:03.679 give on a related topic, um, and then she canceled 1:27:03.760 --> 1:27:06.400 her talk. So I thought she might come to mind, right, 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:08.600 like free to bay, like ask me questions, and I 1:27:08.720 --> 1:27:13.760 was like okay, but of course she didn't, right Instead, See, 1:27:13.960 --> 1:27:17.479 I tried to just get it shut down. But I 1:27:17.560 --> 1:27:21.120 think this is Yeah, it's one kind of the cancel 1:27:21.160 --> 1:27:23.479 culture thing is kind of one element, but I think 1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:26.160 it's really central and a lot of their stuff, um, 1:27:26.479 --> 1:27:28.840 and that the kind of in the background of other 1:27:28.920 --> 1:27:33.280 stuff is like you know, somehow the consensus has been controlled, 1:27:33.360 --> 1:27:36.680 and like it's the result of like the truth not 1:27:36.800 --> 1:27:40.519 being heard and people not considering all these important things 1:27:40.560 --> 1:27:43.400 that they need to consider, kind of from care for 1:27:43.520 --> 1:27:46.880 trans youth too, you know, trans woman being able to 1:27:46.960 --> 1:27:50.280 use the bathroom. Kind of across all this, they're running 1:27:50.320 --> 1:27:53.920 this narrative that the truth has been silenced and you know, 1:27:54.960 --> 1:27:57.360 trans people are being unreasonable and have shut it down. 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:02.240 I think that is like pretty foundational. And the other 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:09.600 overall narrative they've built, yeah, and and it and you 1:28:09.720 --> 1:28:13.120 see this as like this is one of the ways 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:17.599 they try to I guess rest the batchful of authority 1:28:17.720 --> 1:28:23.880 back from literally every actual medical group who all agree 1:28:23.960 --> 1:28:26.880 that you should actually let kids transition and you should 1:28:26.920 --> 1:28:30.719 let adults transition, and that this is in fact good 1:28:31.439 --> 1:28:36.720 and like a thing that medically is is like and 1:28:36.760 --> 1:28:40.040 then like I said, yeah, I mean this isn't this 1:28:40.200 --> 1:28:42.840 is a huge deal. But so, like Catholt Sog is 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:45.800 a philosopher, right, and so she started off her first 1:28:45.840 --> 1:28:48.960 thing was, like, something is a funt in academic philosophy. 1:28:49.280 --> 1:28:52.479 You know, academic philosophers aren't debating whether trans women or 1:28:52.520 --> 1:28:55.320 women in the way that they should. This idea that 1:28:55.439 --> 1:28:59.559 the debates being silenced in philosophy, you know, like doesn't 1:28:59.600 --> 1:29:04.320 have really important consequences. I think the idea that like 1:29:04.479 --> 1:29:08.960 all of mainstream research on trans healthcare and like what 1:29:09.160 --> 1:29:11.880 is in the good in the best interests of trans 1:29:12.000 --> 1:29:16.479 kids being able to diligitimize that is really serious, right, 1:29:16.880 --> 1:29:20.200 that it just has these tremendous consequences. I think they've 1:29:20.240 --> 1:29:25.320 been able to be pretty effective on that too. Yeah, 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:27.519 And that's been really scary in a lot of ways 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:31.360 because you see like the arguments of these people pioneered 1:29:31.560 --> 1:29:34.760 and the sort of the techniques and the groups that 1:29:34.800 --> 1:29:38.640 they're part of like wind up being core parts of 1:29:39.280 --> 1:29:41.920 the anti trans push in both the UK and the US. 1:29:42.880 --> 1:29:47.680 And yeah, that's extremely scary. It's really scary. I mean, 1:29:47.720 --> 1:29:51.559 it's just it's just awful, like these are these are 1:29:51.680 --> 1:29:56.439 children and for them to become the focus of this 1:29:56.560 --> 1:30:00.080 kind of hate movement is just horrifying. And it's m 1:30:01.000 --> 1:30:05.400 just offen. The you know, the history of healthcare for 1:30:06.560 --> 1:30:11.400 general conforming kids is really grim, and its like they 1:30:11.520 --> 1:30:14.120 are just pushing to kind of go back there, and 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:28.800 it's just ghastly. It's really horrifying to see. Yeah, I 1:30:28.840 --> 1:30:30.519 guess I think that's a that's a good point. We 1:30:30.600 --> 1:30:34.360 can Okay, this is probably should probably be the second 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:36.760 AD break, But yeah, do you know what else is 1:30:36.760 --> 1:30:51.479 horrifying ads? And we're back? Um what one of the 1:30:51.800 --> 1:30:54.160 scariest parts I think of what was happening in the 1:30:54.280 --> 1:30:58.479 UK was the extent to which I mean not just 1:30:58.640 --> 1:31:02.920 mainstream British media gets involved in this, but I mean 1:31:03.240 --> 1:31:05.680 literally the BBC, which is which is the you know this, 1:31:05.920 --> 1:31:10.040 this is this is the state media organization right starts 1:31:10.160 --> 1:31:18.200 to just push unbelievably transphobic articles out as just regular contents. Um. 1:31:19.080 --> 1:31:20.559 I think I think the probably the most famous one 1:31:20.880 --> 1:31:31.320 is Yeah, in in October, BBC publishes this article that's 1:31:33.280 --> 1:31:36.360 called We're being pressured into sex by some trans women. 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:45.919 That is just an just just an absolutely appalling display 1:31:46.160 --> 1:31:50.320 of of transphobia. Um. Yeah, can you talk a little 1:31:50.320 --> 1:31:55.560 bit about that? And yeah, So the this article was 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:59.320 framed around the question is a lesbian transphobic if she 1:31:59.360 --> 1:32:01.840 does not want to have sex with trans women? Some 1:32:02.080 --> 1:32:04.800 lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into 1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:08.760 accepting trans women as partners. Um. And so the the 1:32:09.120 --> 1:32:12.960 over arching perspective in the piece that you get is 1:32:13.000 --> 1:32:17.600 that this is a significant problem among lesbians. They're experiencing 1:32:17.680 --> 1:32:23.000 sexual pressure from trans women. Um. The kind of reporting 1:32:23.080 --> 1:32:27.200 strategy that the reporter used was, you know, just soliciting 1:32:28.320 --> 1:32:32.240 this one kind of particular narrative from lesbians who said 1:32:32.240 --> 1:32:36.040 that they had had these kind of experiences with trans women. Um. 1:32:36.160 --> 1:32:38.599 The people who are quoted in the article who aren't 1:32:38.600 --> 1:32:42.800 anonymous are general critical people, right, They're like Rose of Don, 1:32:42.920 --> 1:32:47.600 Debbie Hayden. And then there's these anonymous women who we 1:32:47.640 --> 1:32:51.599 don't know who they are. Um, but it's not they 1:32:51.640 --> 1:32:56.439 didn't go and approach you know, normal mainstream lesbian activists 1:32:56.520 --> 1:32:59.880 or lesbian organizations to see like what they were experiencing 1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:03.559 the community, Right, there's kind of no perspective just from 1:33:03.960 --> 1:33:08.080 any kind of mainstream lesbian or relations at all. That 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:09.320 that was one of the things that like sort of 1:33:09.800 --> 1:33:11.800 haunting about this, Like this journalist is working on this 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:15.200 for age, like I think it was like and like 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:18.160 like she was specifically trying to find this people, these 1:33:18.200 --> 1:33:20.519 people like people who like had to experienced a specific 1:33:20.560 --> 1:33:25.000 thing and like no normal but she couldn't find normal 1:33:25.080 --> 1:33:28.080 people because it's not a thing. And so she she 1:33:28.760 --> 1:33:31.360 after like many many years, she was able to find 1:33:31.479 --> 1:33:35.400 like a couple of examples, like a few examples and 1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:40.200 mostly from yeah, just open transpops. And the article is 1:33:40.280 --> 1:33:44.000 just like so conceptually sloppy that it doesn't distinguish, you know, 1:33:44.120 --> 1:33:48.680 theoretical discourse about whether you know, it's transphobic to just 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:51.639 say out of hand you never date a trans woman. 1:33:52.120 --> 1:33:54.880 It doesn't distinguish this from sexual abuse. It just kind 1:33:54.920 --> 1:33:58.240 of takes for granted that they're just saying in kind 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:03.720 of an abstract theoretical contact um that's some's like just 1:34:04.240 --> 1:34:05.960 saying that you won't ever sleep with a trans woman 1:34:06.120 --> 1:34:11.160 saying that that is transphobic is itself treated as akin 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:16.120 to pressuring someone into sex, right like that. Yeah, journalism 1:34:16.200 --> 1:34:20.599 that doesn't distinguish between just a conversation about sexual issues 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:24.519 and sexual abuse is just disastrous. There's just something serious 1:34:24.520 --> 1:34:27.800 about this piece, and it's just kind of throughout it 1:34:28.080 --> 1:34:31.719 it's just yeah, like like one of other things about 1:34:31.800 --> 1:34:36.560 this is so they found like a survey, right, the 1:34:36.760 --> 1:34:40.720 journalists went looking for a survey about like like what 1:34:40.840 --> 1:34:44.599 percentage of lesbians have like encountered this encountered this pressure, 1:34:45.280 --> 1:34:49.200 and the only thing they could find was, well, okay, 1:34:49.200 --> 1:34:51.000 the only thing they could find that would like support 1:34:51.400 --> 1:34:54.519 their actual claim was this this poll from this group 1:34:54.680 --> 1:34:58.080 called get Out the l which is just like a 1:34:58.240 --> 1:35:01.679 group that whose entire purpose is just being anti trans 1:35:01.760 --> 1:35:04.840 people and trying to get rid of them. Yeah, And 1:35:04.920 --> 1:35:06.000 it was just it was just like it was it 1:35:06.080 --> 1:35:08.320 was like a Twitter poll, right, it was it was 1:35:08.439 --> 1:35:12.680 like they're they're they're publishing as as statistical evidence for 1:35:12.760 --> 1:35:15.400 their claim a Twitter poll from a from a turf 1:35:15.520 --> 1:35:18.720 group and trying to like claim this is serious journalism, 1:35:18.760 --> 1:35:21.600 and it's just yeah, I mean so literally, on the 1:35:21.720 --> 1:35:25.560 page of the statistic they cite in this report. The 1:35:25.600 --> 1:35:30.320 report approvingly cites Janice Raymond saying about all trans sexuals 1:35:30.439 --> 1:35:33.120 rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to 1:35:33.200 --> 1:35:36.400 an artifact. And so like, are we talking about metaphors 1:35:36.439 --> 1:35:41.920 here or are we talking about social abuse? It's just 1:35:42.080 --> 1:35:47.240 sick And so what of the people who was interviewed 1:35:47.600 --> 1:35:52.960 in this um was Lily Cade, who was an adult 1:35:53.040 --> 1:35:58.040 performer and again throughout this just a trans woman saying 1:35:58.360 --> 1:36:01.639 that the way someone is reading her in a sexual 1:36:01.680 --> 1:36:06.519 context is transphobic, is itself treated as sexually abusive? Um? 1:36:06.840 --> 1:36:14.000 So Lilly Cade, you know, she refused to think initially 1:36:14.040 --> 1:36:18.280 she refused to be in a scene with a trans woman. 1:36:18.800 --> 1:36:22.480 The later on also refused to m shoot a transpmant 1:36:22.479 --> 1:36:25.599 at all, um when she was working as a producer. Um. 1:36:25.680 --> 1:36:29.720 So they kind of get a quote from Lily you know, 1:36:29.840 --> 1:36:35.120 saying something about women being pressured into sex by trans woman. 1:36:35.640 --> 1:36:39.920 And it turns out that Lily Cade was pushed out 1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:42.680 of the adult industry because she's like a serial rapist. Right, 1:36:42.720 --> 1:36:47.799 So this is there source on whether this is problem 1:36:47.840 --> 1:36:52.280 for assist woman is herself as this woman who is 1:36:52.360 --> 1:36:56.160 a serial rapist, right, And they're using this person to 1:36:56.840 --> 1:37:04.679 portray trans woman is the victimizers, and it's just so grim. Yeah, 1:37:05.560 --> 1:37:07.760 most of it is just like haunting. Like one of 1:37:07.800 --> 1:37:09.400 the other things that came out was like part of 1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:12.160 the stories that they said that like no prominent trans 1:37:12.240 --> 1:37:14.240 women would speak with them for the story, and then 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:17.120 a prominent trans woman was like, no, you guys interviewed me, 1:37:17.320 --> 1:37:19.600 and that didn't include it in the article. Yeah, So 1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:23.000 this was one of the people who literally Kate had 1:37:23.040 --> 1:37:28.320 had a conflict with, was Chelsea powe Um, another woman 1:37:28.600 --> 1:37:32.720 important who had asked if Lily Um she could work 1:37:33.240 --> 1:37:36.000 really his company, and Lily said no because she was trans. 1:37:36.479 --> 1:37:41.840 So they talked Chelsea was is it reasonably prominent person um? 1:37:42.800 --> 1:37:46.040 And they interviewed her, didn't include her in the article. 1:37:47.040 --> 1:37:50.080 She says that she told them that Lily had this 1:37:50.800 --> 1:37:56.640 predatory past. They also didn't say anything about that. And 1:37:56.760 --> 1:37:59.360 so we have the situation where we have this person 1:38:00.040 --> 1:38:04.599 who is this this woman who the author has been 1:38:04.680 --> 1:38:09.599 told is a serial sexual predator being presented as kind 1:38:09.600 --> 1:38:14.960 of an authority on women's sexual victimization supposedly by trans woman. 1:38:15.800 --> 1:38:21.280 She is the victimized and not only is she a 1:38:21.360 --> 1:38:25.440 serial sexual predator. But she's like specifically attacked people in bathrooms. 1:38:26.040 --> 1:38:30.920 But she's like the famous fearmongering transphobic thing is that 1:38:31.240 --> 1:38:34.200 trans people are going to attack you in the bathroom 1:38:35.120 --> 1:38:39.240 in the venus, your sources attack people in bathrooms, And 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:45.000 there's just very little interest like how women are actually 1:38:45.600 --> 1:38:48.880 victimized and by who. Yeah, and I think like that 1:38:49.040 --> 1:38:51.920 that's amused to disturbing party. She's like, this isn't just 1:38:52.040 --> 1:38:55.200 like a negligency of reporting. Think here, this is just malice. 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:59.000 Like if you are told anything, it's like it's not 1:38:59.160 --> 1:39:02.240 it's not like it was hard to like find out 1:39:02.520 --> 1:39:04.679 that that you know, it's okay, so someone someone tells 1:39:04.720 --> 1:39:08.080 you that someone else is an abusive, right, it's like okay, 1:39:08.240 --> 1:39:11.240 Like maybe you're a journalist, maybe you're going to be like, oh, 1:39:11.280 --> 1:39:15.120 I should check this out. Like Lily Cage assaulted so 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:17.439 many people and like rape so many people that like 1:39:18.400 --> 1:39:22.240 just scrolling through Twitter, I found multiple people who have 1:39:22.320 --> 1:39:24.600 been abused by her, Like this was this was not 1:39:24.720 --> 1:39:27.120 something that was like like she she'd admitted it in public. 1:39:27.160 --> 1:39:28.800 This is not something that was hard to find right, 1:39:28.960 --> 1:39:32.040 And and I just want to underline that, which is 1:39:32.120 --> 1:39:36.200 that Billy Kay. After these accusations really got going, she 1:39:36.360 --> 1:39:41.240 did like publicly and she did not deny, and then 1:39:41.280 --> 1:39:44.439 she retired from porn. Yeah, and and and you know, 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:48.200 and this is something like the BBC does this, They 1:39:48.240 --> 1:39:50.280 do this weird backtracking at this article comes out and 1:39:50.280 --> 1:39:54.360 everyone gets exurely mad at them. But they refused to 1:39:54.439 --> 1:39:56.720 release the like the tape of the interview they had 1:39:56.760 --> 1:39:58.639 to with Chelsea Poe, which you know, would have proved 1:39:58.680 --> 1:40:01.439 that Chelsea Pope did in fact tell them that Lilli 1:40:01.560 --> 1:40:03.799 k was a rapist, and they published the story anyways, 1:40:03.840 --> 1:40:06.479 and there's there's so much of this stuff was like yeah, 1:40:06.520 --> 1:40:11.040 like the they the way they backtrack about it, the 1:40:11.120 --> 1:40:14.280 way that also like so the two places where this thing, 1:40:14.520 --> 1:40:17.920 the story ran was the BBC in Britain and they 1:40:18.000 --> 1:40:21.040 syndicated it out to Brazil and a few of the 1:40:21.040 --> 1:40:24.560 places that were like that are incredibly transphobic, and it 1:40:24.720 --> 1:40:28.160 ran like and just like right in Brazil, like ran 1:40:28.240 --> 1:40:30.280 as a bunch of mainstream news headlines like where like 1:40:30.360 --> 1:40:32.160 news stories and in the major newspapers like ran this 1:40:33.280 --> 1:40:35.439 and it was I don't know, like there there's there's 1:40:35.479 --> 1:40:39.759 there's this extent to which yeah, like you're watching British 1:40:39.760 --> 1:40:43.479 state media decide that they actively just want to go 1:40:43.520 --> 1:40:45.640 to war on trans people and they literally just do 1:40:45.840 --> 1:40:51.639 not care that like they are, you know, publishing little rapists. 1:40:51.640 --> 1:40:55.920 And then yeah, I just just the BBC's policy now 1:40:56.120 --> 1:40:59.559 is when we interview those responsible for ani social behavioral crime, 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:02.080 it made us to cause distress to victims, and we 1:41:02.160 --> 1:41:06.560 should contact victims and advise them of our plans. You 1:41:06.640 --> 1:41:09.000 know what a viewing criminals. Care must be taken to 1:41:09.040 --> 1:41:11.320 minimize potential of stress this may cause to victims of 1:41:11.360 --> 1:41:18.080 the crime. They they didn't see Lily as this applying 1:41:18.160 --> 1:41:22.000 to her, right, This is uh, this woman who they 1:41:22.040 --> 1:41:24.840 have been told is a sexual predator. You can find 1:41:24.880 --> 1:41:28.280 this information. I found it pretty quickly, all of these 1:41:28.560 --> 1:41:31.759 victims talking about it, her acknowledging it, and they didn't 1:41:32.479 --> 1:41:37.439 identify this this woman as a predator with victims who 1:41:37.479 --> 1:41:42.200 would be like very plausibly upset by seeing their rapists 1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:48.439 treated as an authority. Sexual abuse, right, and this is 1:41:48.520 --> 1:41:51.120 kind of pervasive, I think in the gender critical movement 1:41:51.360 --> 1:41:55.120 right where if any of you are out there, I'm 1:41:55.120 --> 1:41:58.439 sure you're thinking women can't be rapists. Rape requires a penis, 1:41:58.760 --> 1:42:02.200 which is in the Okay, it's kind of a you know, 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:04.960 most fem is considered this a pretty reactionary way to 1:42:05.080 --> 1:42:09.000 define rape, where it has to be um penetration with 1:42:09.160 --> 1:42:16.000 a penis, and this isn't reflective of you know, how 1:42:16.080 --> 1:42:19.280 women experience sexual assault that it's just kind of totally 1:42:19.320 --> 1:42:24.680 other category UM. And most countries feminism consider it quite 1:42:24.720 --> 1:42:28.400 important that you don't kind of treat this as this 1:42:28.479 --> 1:42:34.800 like categorically different offense UM. But the general curtal really 1:42:34.880 --> 1:42:38.800 pushes this perspective where it is literally impossible for women 1:42:39.400 --> 1:42:44.920 to commit ray, you know. And this is they think 1:42:45.000 --> 1:42:48.800 that when they a brief period where they thought that 1:42:48.880 --> 1:42:53.960 they had identified like that every rape that was recorded 1:42:54.000 --> 1:42:56.960 as committed by a woman was trans woman because they 1:42:57.040 --> 1:43:00.680 thought that it required apenis and they thought it that 1:43:00.840 --> 1:43:02.800 was the only way it's possible and so you can 1:43:02.840 --> 1:43:06.320 actually be convicted of it if you were aiding and abetting. 1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:08.720 I think they thought that they had all these this 1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:11.200 and they just have this overall perspective where it is 1:43:11.320 --> 1:43:16.320 literally impossible for you know, they say a woman meaning 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:20.080 the assist woman to commit a sexual offense, and into 1:43:20.360 --> 1:43:26.360 this they create cover for sis woman predators like it 1:43:26.520 --> 1:43:32.439 creates this context where that their victimization just disappears. People 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:37.760 can't even acknowledge it. And yeah, and like I think 1:43:37.840 --> 1:43:41.160 like the the extent to which this whole movement is 1:43:42.040 --> 1:43:45.200 built on violence and it is built any and there 1:43:45.240 --> 1:43:47.160 are so many people that the that the general critical 1:43:47.200 --> 1:43:51.320 people work with who are abusers. There are you know, 1:43:51.439 --> 1:43:53.160 And I like, I want to come back to the 1:43:53.280 --> 1:43:55.720 last piece of the Lily Kid thing, which is that 1:43:55.800 --> 1:43:58.599 after this article came out, the BBC initially basically didn't 1:43:58.600 --> 1:44:02.479 do anything right even that to the rape out. Yes, yeah, 1:44:03.280 --> 1:44:10.080 and then literally Kay published one of like one of 1:44:10.200 --> 1:44:12.719 the most transphobic things I've ever encountered in my life, 1:44:13.120 --> 1:44:20.680 like a a just this it gets called a manifesto, 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:24.160 Like I don't think like a manifesto. It was terrified. Yeah, 1:44:24.280 --> 1:44:28.439 Like she she's she she's explicitly like like like name 1:44:28.600 --> 1:44:32.120 specific trans women that she wants lynched. Like there's a 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:34.880 bunch of stuff about the people she wants raped. She 1:44:35.000 --> 1:44:37.599 wants like she wants all trans people to die. Uh, 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:40.719 there's a there's a bunch of there's like really racist stuff. 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:43.760 There's like I mean, it's it's it's just it's it's 1:44:43.840 --> 1:44:46.439 it's it is a document that calls for genocide, and 1:44:46.520 --> 1:44:49.479 the part where it's calling for genocide probably isn't like 1:44:49.720 --> 1:44:52.200 line for Lyne the most disturbing part of it because 1:44:52.200 --> 1:44:59.000 the individual threats are like so graphic. And I was 1:44:59.200 --> 1:45:03.280 terrified when i've I was the person who you know, 1:45:03.320 --> 1:45:06.640 initially dug up the sexual abuse allegations. And when I 1:45:06.720 --> 1:45:10.280 did it, I knew it would kind of it would 1:45:10.320 --> 1:45:12.599 throw a match into her life. I thought that they 1:45:12.640 --> 1:45:14.720 hadn't you know, they were there, they were visible, you 1:45:14.800 --> 1:45:17.519 could find them. But when it had happened, she had 1:45:17.600 --> 1:45:22.640 not really been in the mainstream I and so I 1:45:22.680 --> 1:45:25.479 knew if this got uptake, it would make it bigger. 1:45:26.120 --> 1:45:30.599 And what had it? And then you know, this woman 1:45:30.720 --> 1:45:35.840 is posting this terrifying manifest It read like, yeah, she 1:45:36.760 --> 1:45:41.519 shooting someone now. It was just so it was just terrified. 1:45:41.560 --> 1:45:44.679 It was like something to be written, you know, immediately 1:45:44.760 --> 1:45:49.559 before someone goes to shoot someone. It was not until 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:53.559 she's tweeting it and tagging the BBC in it. Yeah, 1:45:53.600 --> 1:45:56.880 and like that that finally, like one of the most 1:45:56.920 --> 1:45:59.320 disturbing things I've ever read in my life. Like that 1:45:59.560 --> 1:46:01.880 was fine. Lead the thing with the BBC was like, Uh, 1:46:02.840 --> 1:46:06.360 maybe we should do something about this. It was just 1:46:06.520 --> 1:46:11.360 so so little, right, this is they took her out 1:46:11.360 --> 1:46:14.920 of the article. Um, they added an update and says 1:46:15.560 --> 1:46:18.000 we have updated this article published last week to remove 1:46:18.080 --> 1:46:20.960 a contribution from one individual in light of comments she 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:22.880 has published on a blog post in recent days which 1:46:22.920 --> 1:46:25.479 we have been able to verify. We acknowledge that an 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:28.160 admission of inappropriate behavior by the same contributor should have 1:46:28.200 --> 1:46:34.160 been included in the original article. So this is you know, 1:46:34.200 --> 1:46:36.519 they just kind of erased her, right, So they didn't 1:46:37.520 --> 1:46:40.240 acknowledge that they had included this person in the article 1:46:40.640 --> 1:46:44.880 who just published this genocidal ran. Right, So one of 1:46:44.960 --> 1:46:49.840 their sources is the person who is advocating for killing 1:46:50.040 --> 1:46:52.760 trans people. That is important, right, That is pretty to 1:46:52.960 --> 1:46:56.800 this narrative they're pushing. And they also are not saying, 1:46:58.800 --> 1:47:01.719 you know, they should have we acknowledged that an admission 1:47:01.720 --> 1:47:05.080 of inappropriate behavior should have been included in the original article. 1:47:05.439 --> 1:47:09.599 It really changes the overall narrative of the article. Right, 1:47:09.960 --> 1:47:14.680 if you acknowledge this sis woman is a serial, right, 1:47:14.760 --> 1:47:18.599 the overall picture is like six women are at risk 1:47:18.640 --> 1:47:22.800 from trans women and it's a reality check. Right to 1:47:22.880 --> 1:47:28.559 hear no, in fact, this woman who were presenting as 1:47:28.640 --> 1:47:32.720 like victimized is one of the women who's preying on people, 1:47:32.760 --> 1:47:39.600 and she's not a trans woman. And it's just they just, 1:47:40.160 --> 1:47:43.439 you know, even after this, responded in a way that 1:47:43.640 --> 1:47:46.519 protected the narrative of the piece, right, they were they 1:47:46.560 --> 1:47:50.600 weren't going to let in anything that acknowledge this. The 1:47:50.680 --> 1:47:54.760 people they're finding with this position are transphobic, this person 1:47:54.920 --> 1:47:58.920 was very and that it just says they've removed the 1:47:58.960 --> 1:48:03.360 contribution in light of comments she has published. What kind 1:48:03.360 --> 1:48:08.360 of what are they about? And it's serious, right, it's 1:48:08.360 --> 1:48:12.560 serious and naughty knowledge that one of their sources is 1:48:12.760 --> 1:48:19.800 a violent transfer. Yeah, this is how I found out 1:48:19.840 --> 1:48:22.760 that she was alive. Also them saying that they had 1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:24.880 been able to verify it before that, I had been like, 1:48:25.040 --> 1:48:28.360 she's not very online in a lot of cases. Um, 1:48:29.280 --> 1:48:32.920 so I was really what, I didn't know how long 1:48:33.000 --> 1:48:36.120 it was going to be before you know, there's confirmation 1:48:36.240 --> 1:48:38.920 that like in fact that like Kate had not just 1:48:39.080 --> 1:48:44.760 shot someone and herself. This was it was just really 1:48:46.800 --> 1:48:54.760 it's manifest. It was terrified. I don't know, it's just awful. Yeah, 1:48:54.840 --> 1:48:59.479 And I think you know, one of the things that 1:48:59.680 --> 1:49:05.080 that's happening here is you get to see there's a 1:49:05.120 --> 1:49:06.920 couple of like there's a couple there's like layers at 1:49:06.960 --> 1:49:09.280 which this stuff operates. So you have, you know, you 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:12.200 have your BBC running diligitimization, right, but then you have 1:49:12.280 --> 1:49:14.439 the stuff beneath it, which is just appritly genocidal, and 1:49:14.560 --> 1:49:17.120 I think, you know, and sometimes like with the Lily Kid, 1:49:17.320 --> 1:49:19.880 like if you're going to be a turf really kid 1:49:20.000 --> 1:49:22.920 kind of blew it right because like you can't like 1:49:23.960 --> 1:49:27.280 okay like that. You can be really really transphobic in 1:49:27.320 --> 1:49:29.600 a lot of in a lot of ways, but like 1:49:30.240 --> 1:49:32.320 you know, actively calling people to get lynched is a 1:49:32.400 --> 1:49:36.599 thing that like even like transphobs are are normally like wait, 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:42.240 what why are you? Yeah? Yeah, but but I don't 1:49:42.280 --> 1:49:44.600 think like that. The mainstream church movement is not in 1:49:44.720 --> 1:49:48.800 a place where you can do stuff like that. But 1:49:49.760 --> 1:49:52.840 in some ways, I think, you know, the stuff that's 1:49:52.920 --> 1:49:55.840 more moderate is more dangerous. The last thing I want 1:49:55.880 --> 1:50:00.280 to talk about is a document called the Decoration on 1:50:00.360 --> 1:50:05.360 Women's Sex Based Rights, which was put together by a 1:50:05.520 --> 1:50:11.679 bunch of turf activists, fairly prominently featuring arch Australian turf, 1:50:11.880 --> 1:50:15.400 Sheila Jeffreys. But yeah, can you can you talk a 1:50:15.479 --> 1:50:19.160 bit about like what this is and yeah, so this 1:50:19.320 --> 1:50:23.160 is a document that basically all of the gender critical 1:50:23.280 --> 1:50:26.160 organizations and which you people have signed. I mean, it 1:50:26.320 --> 1:50:29.320 is extreme, right. It calls for trans women to be 1:50:29.439 --> 1:50:35.240 banned from all women's spaces, including toilets, which you know, 1:50:35.280 --> 1:50:37.880 if if we can't go to the bathroom, they can't 1:50:37.880 --> 1:50:40.760 participate in society. Right, It's just like a basic need 1:50:40.800 --> 1:50:44.040 people to have to exist in public um. And that 1:50:44.240 --> 1:50:48.360 it bands all. It has to ban all internationally recommended 1:50:48.400 --> 1:50:53.320 healthcare for trans children. UM. It has still legally protect 1:50:53.479 --> 1:50:57.560 deliberate miss gendering um, which would you know, allow you 1:50:57.760 --> 1:51:03.559 to be m just treat it with such hostility at work, 1:51:04.200 --> 1:51:07.680 just in public. This is a just kind of a 1:51:07.800 --> 1:51:11.000 threat assault on trans people's ability to exist with dignity 1:51:11.400 --> 1:51:16.640 and society just live normal lives. And you know a 1:51:16.720 --> 1:51:22.080 lot of general critical people will say will portray themselves, 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:27.439 you know as only opposing advances for trends rights, you know, 1:51:27.800 --> 1:51:31.000 as not wanting trans rights to be rolled back. But 1:51:31.120 --> 1:51:34.000 with this document calls for is like basically every right 1:51:34.040 --> 1:51:37.160 trans people have to exist in their genders in particular 1:51:37.640 --> 1:51:40.640 trans women and especially Turgis trans women. UM to just 1:51:40.680 --> 1:51:44.320 take it all back and leave them with basically nothing. 1:51:44.560 --> 1:51:46.760 Yeah yeah, like that's like they have this whole thing 1:51:46.800 --> 1:51:50.240 about like basically like they want to erase the concept 1:51:50.320 --> 1:51:55.599 of gender right density from law, which is the thing 1:51:55.760 --> 1:51:59.800 that does is it eliminates all trans people from like, 1:51:59.880 --> 1:52:01.800 it eliminates trans people as a thing that the law 1:52:01.840 --> 1:52:07.080 recognizes exists and things should have protections. It's like it's 1:52:07.120 --> 1:52:11.439 it's it is, you know, like it is the legal 1:52:11.479 --> 1:52:13.640 genocide of trans people like that that's that's that's what 1:52:13.760 --> 1:52:17.960 it is. It's yeah, so they've basically all signed this, 1:52:18.600 --> 1:52:22.560 you know, it is a yeah, it's this is not 1:52:22.680 --> 1:52:29.360 at all. Uh. French document positions itself as like you know, 1:52:29.680 --> 1:52:35.160 the demands kind of of this movement and it's extreme. UM. 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:43.160 The organization's spokeswoman is Karadinsky UM, who uses almost all 1:52:43.360 --> 1:52:45.800 of her public appearances. She has a number of times 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:49.160 been on Tucker Carl said, Um. She boost Jennifer Billick 1:52:49.880 --> 1:52:54.400 all the time. I think it's her biggest supporter. UM 1:52:54.920 --> 1:52:59.519 and was formerly the chair of Wolf, which is Lear 1:52:59.680 --> 1:53:04.719 Keith organization. So she is Liberation Front is what stands 1:53:04.800 --> 1:53:07.439 for it is a cool name for an organ that sucks, 1:53:07.640 --> 1:53:11.639 and they should get it back to the one better. Yeah, 1:53:11.720 --> 1:53:17.080 so this is I mean generally you see the American 1:53:17.200 --> 1:53:24.960 Turfs kind of in this more radical direction. Um awesome, 1:53:25.920 --> 1:53:30.679 especially explicitly collaborating with the right. Um. And here they've 1:53:30.720 --> 1:53:35.000 made this document that just reports to and everyone has 1:53:35.040 --> 1:53:40.760 signs that kind of direct the overall agenda to one 1:53:40.840 --> 1:53:46.800 to just leaves trance people with just no protections at all. Yeah, 1:53:47.080 --> 1:53:49.599 And I think I think it's you know, the reason 1:53:49.640 --> 1:53:50.800 I think this is in a lot of ways, like 1:53:50.840 --> 1:53:52.960 warch Adrea is similarly cave thing is. Again, it's in 1:53:53.080 --> 1:53:57.800 this like it's not actually in legally because none of 1:53:57.840 --> 1:54:02.439 these people are lawyers. And yes, oh so boy said, 1:54:02.800 --> 1:54:04.960 how how did an actual law I mean, okay, I 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:07.000 shouldn't be asking how did an actual lawyer produce this 1:54:07.040 --> 1:54:11.400 because I've met lawyers and there they're not. They are 1:54:11.479 --> 1:54:13.920 not as smart and above board as they protein itself 1:54:13.920 --> 1:54:17.519 to people. Yeah, Like, this stuff isn't making legal arguments, 1:54:17.520 --> 1:54:18.880 like one of one of the things that they they've like, 1:54:19.200 --> 1:54:21.280 I guess the whole sort of gender critical like turf 1:54:21.360 --> 1:54:24.920 movements invented is like this this concept of sex based rights, 1:54:25.360 --> 1:54:30.439 which is not a thing. Like yeah, like like like 1:54:30.960 --> 1:54:32.920 they all think that there's like rights that you have 1:54:33.120 --> 1:54:36.560 because of your sex, and no, this doesn't exist. They 1:54:36.640 --> 1:54:39.440 completely made this up. They keep on like referring to 1:54:39.560 --> 1:54:41.600 it as if it's like a concept that exists in 1:54:41.640 --> 1:54:44.640 the law, Like none of this stuff like in terms 1:54:44.680 --> 1:54:48.160 of legals. It's like it's nothing. It's it's it's, it's, it's, 1:54:48.200 --> 1:54:51.000 it's it's a jumble of words. Yeah, I know. You 1:54:51.160 --> 1:54:54.880 really see as the movements go, they really have really 1:54:55.000 --> 1:54:58.200 robust movement discipline and kind of taking up these terms 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:00.000 and then saying them all the time. Is that it's 1:55:00.000 --> 1:55:02.080 a thing everyone's familiar with. One of them is I 1:55:02.200 --> 1:55:04.680 was like women's sex based rights, women's sex based rights, 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:12.200 Like what people's rights aren't based on their sex. It's 1:55:12.240 --> 1:55:14.240 kind of like a whole thing we're doing with fetism. 1:55:14.320 --> 1:55:17.080 You know. It was like, you don't have special rights 1:55:17.160 --> 1:55:20.080 based on being a man, And it turns out that 1:55:20.200 --> 1:55:24.640 like supposedly a law we've thought that you have special 1:55:24.760 --> 1:55:29.640 rights for if you're a woman, to exclude whoever you 1:55:29.720 --> 1:55:36.000 want to exclude. I guess it's yeah, it's just goofy. Yeah, 1:55:36.120 --> 1:55:38.120 but but I think, like it's weird, but it's like 1:55:38.200 --> 1:55:41.120 it's also it has this function, which is that the 1:55:41.360 --> 1:55:44.160 sort of like and like okay, so like I don't 1:55:44.280 --> 1:55:46.080 My guess is that most of the people who have 1:55:46.200 --> 1:55:49.560 signed this document have not read it because you know, 1:55:50.320 --> 1:55:52.840 but but you know, like I think the thing that 1:55:52.920 --> 1:55:56.000 it does is it gives them this this legitimization. It 1:55:56.440 --> 1:55:59.400 gives their goal of exterminating trans people this sort of 1:55:59.560 --> 1:56:03.080 legal jargon apparatus. They can hide behind it like, oh, 1:56:03.240 --> 1:56:07.040 it's actually from the U N and we're basing it 1:56:07.200 --> 1:56:11.760 on international law and that. And the organization used to 1:56:11.840 --> 1:56:15.840 have this fancy name, which was the Woman Human Rights 1:56:15.880 --> 1:56:20.280 Campaign UM and they have now dropped that, possibly for 1:56:20.400 --> 1:56:24.120 legal reasons. But it sounds good, right, and the websites 1:56:24.200 --> 1:56:32.520 polished and it seems like feel thing, and the know 1:56:32.560 --> 1:56:36.680 they really try to take this phrase to and using 1:56:36.720 --> 1:56:40.000 it just kind of sneak everything. And so they'll ask 1:56:40.040 --> 1:56:42.520 people questions like well, what about women's sex space rights? 1:56:42.800 --> 1:56:44.400 These are the thing I've never heard about before in 1:56:44.480 --> 1:56:48.080 my life, and but people just get on board and 1:56:48.320 --> 1:56:52.680 I don't really know what's happening. And they've another thing 1:56:52.720 --> 1:56:57.120 they do is they always portray like bathrooms as sex 1:56:57.200 --> 1:57:00.800 segregated spaces, and I feel like every bathroom I've ever 1:57:00.880 --> 1:57:03.080 been and since women on the door and it seemed 1:57:03.160 --> 1:57:08.160 like female bathroom. But like this is like sentence is 1:57:08.200 --> 1:57:13.480 based on sex, not gender. Just making these assertions and 1:57:14.000 --> 1:57:17.720 they have a lot of assertions. Yeah, yeah, I think 1:57:17.760 --> 1:57:20.080 I think that's a good place to wrap up. I 1:57:20.120 --> 1:57:29.920 guess they have a lot of assertions. Yeah, yeah, I 1:57:29.960 --> 1:57:35.880 guess we've just underwriting again what a serious kind of 1:57:35.880 --> 1:57:38.720 attack on trans people's rights. This is right, and this 1:57:38.920 --> 1:57:41.560 is calling for things that would make it very hard 1:57:41.680 --> 1:57:46.880 for trans people to exist. And it's really scary to 1:57:46.920 --> 1:57:49.080 watch this. I think I can watch it kind of 1:57:49.160 --> 1:57:54.040 progress across this movement and be boosted. It's awful. Yeah, 1:57:54.280 --> 1:57:57.440 And next episode we are going to take a much 1:57:57.520 --> 1:58:00.640 deeper dive into some of the people who signed this 1:58:00.840 --> 1:58:04.800 documents and we are going to see what happens when 1:58:05.920 --> 1:58:10.880 this kind of bloodless but genocidal, legalistic rhetoric makes it 1:58:10.960 --> 1:58:13.440 into the hands of people who are not afraid to 1:58:13.520 --> 1:58:21.200 do physical violence. And it is worse. It is going 1:58:21.280 --> 1:58:26.160 to go worse than you're probably imagining. Just to underline 1:58:27.160 --> 1:58:30.760 said earlier that Jennifer Billicks stuff is you know, just 1:58:30.920 --> 1:58:36.000 widely now accepted within this movement, and her stuff is 1:58:36.560 --> 1:58:40.760 portraying trans people and trans rights as existential immediate threat. Right. 1:58:40.840 --> 1:58:46.360 She portrays she often says that doctors are like butchering children, right, 1:58:46.440 --> 1:58:49.720 if they're making children into slaves. It's stuff that, if 1:58:49.760 --> 1:58:52.280 it was true, would call for kind of an extreme 1:58:52.400 --> 1:58:56.720 level of resistance. And that's kind of what this stuff 1:58:56.760 --> 1:59:00.360 functions to do, right, If you are accusing people these 1:59:00.480 --> 1:59:05.080 really extreme offenses and of hurting and threatening all of 1:59:05.160 --> 1:59:10.120 these people, what that motivates is extreme responses and volime responses. 1:59:10.480 --> 1:59:15.880 And Billy herself is sometimes engaged in violent rhetoric. But 1:59:17.600 --> 1:59:20.560 I think many of us who have been following this 1:59:20.720 --> 1:59:24.440 movement are just kind of waiting, afraid because that's just 1:59:24.560 --> 1:59:26.560 where it looks like it's going in the US and 1:59:26.600 --> 1:59:30.480 the UK too, kind of like hard to it's just 1:59:30.560 --> 1:59:34.880 so scary, and like you know, they're mapping out where 1:59:34.920 --> 1:59:39.520 the gender clinics are, and it's it's scary because where 1:59:39.640 --> 1:59:42.400 rhetoric like this goes is to a violent place, and 1:59:43.960 --> 1:59:46.840 it's hard to see it letting up right now. Yeah, 1:59:47.240 --> 1:59:50.720 and yeah, that is that is the subject of tomorrow's episode, 1:59:50.760 --> 1:59:53.120 which Yeah, in which a bunch of people will start 1:59:53.160 --> 1:59:55.680 attacking gender clinics and a bunch of trans people are 1:59:55.760 --> 1:59:59.880 going to get violently assaulted by turfs who are direct 2:00:00.040 --> 2:00:04.760 be affiliated with Sheila Jeffreys and our followers of Jennifer Billick. 2:00:05.840 --> 2:00:11.000 So yeah, Christoph, thank you, thank you for coming on 2:00:11.080 --> 2:00:15.560 and doing this. Yeah, yeah, this has been It could 2:00:15.560 --> 2:00:18.920 happen here. Uh, you can find us at happened here 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:21.960 pot on Twitter and Instagram. We are also there is 2:00:22.000 --> 2:00:26.000 other stuff that we do at the Cool Zone and yeah, 2:00:26.200 --> 2:00:28.400 go go fight for the rights of trans people before 2:00:28.440 --> 2:00:45.280 they ceased to exist. Welcome to it could Happen Here, 2:00:45.440 --> 2:00:47.480 a podcast that this week is about the war on 2:00:47.560 --> 2:00:52.520 trans people. I'm your host, Christopher Wong. If you've been 2:00:52.560 --> 2:00:55.120 around the left long enough, you've probably heard people called 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:59.879 transclusionary radical feminism or turf is um a colonial ideallo 2:01:00.040 --> 2:01:04.080 g Broadly, the accusation of colonialism is about the erasure 2:01:04.160 --> 2:01:07.520 of non Western genders to fall outside the Christian gender binary, 2:01:08.440 --> 2:01:11.879 but turfs or colonial in another sense as well, exported 2:01:11.920 --> 2:01:14.560 by white academics to a network of fall feminist and 2:01:14.600 --> 2:01:18.080 anti trafficking groups. The ideology has imposed itself on the 2:01:18.120 --> 2:01:22.000 global South, with devastating and violent consequences. As a product 2:01:22.040 --> 2:01:25.040 of this colonial imposition, Mexico has become one of the 2:01:25.120 --> 2:01:28.000 front lines in the war against trans people. I spoke 2:01:28.080 --> 2:01:31.240 to Emmy Flores and Juliana Newhauser, two members of the 2:01:31.320 --> 2:01:35.280 Sexual and Gender Dissidence Resistance Network, a group of activists 2:01:35.280 --> 2:01:37.960 aligned with the Zapatistas who have been documenting and resisting 2:01:38.000 --> 2:01:41.440 the spread of turfs in Mexico. When the new turf 2:01:41.520 --> 2:01:47.680 waves started in Mexico several years back. UM at the 2:01:47.800 --> 2:01:51.320 time I thought, I thought of it as something that 2:01:51.640 --> 2:01:54.720 like a radicalization that went too far, you know, like 2:01:54.840 --> 2:01:56.680 kind of like thinking back to like the New Left, 2:01:57.680 --> 2:02:00.960 and there was a point during the New Left when 2:02:01.080 --> 2:02:08.000 like suddenly everybody joined a Baoist cult and they were 2:02:08.920 --> 2:02:13.360 angry for the right reasons, but it just went off. 2:02:14.200 --> 2:02:17.680 At some point, I thought that's what was going on 2:02:18.080 --> 2:02:21.800 in Mexico. But then slowly it started to come out 2:02:21.840 --> 2:02:26.040 more that more and more turf groups were had to 2:02:26.120 --> 2:02:31.280 tie us to political parties, and one of them and 2:02:31.360 --> 2:02:34.640 foreign agents. And one of the one of the most 2:02:34.760 --> 2:02:40.400 dramatic cases UM is from Toluca City near Mexico City, 2:02:40.760 --> 2:02:47.080 UM just recently at the International Women's Date protests, like 2:02:47.160 --> 2:02:51.680 there were turf groups that had made a pinata out 2:02:51.720 --> 2:02:55.000 of the trans flag, had been burning the trans flag. 2:02:55.680 --> 2:02:58.600 Also in this same city. One of the main turf 2:02:58.680 --> 2:03:02.839 groups turns out that their leader is on government payroll. 2:03:03.600 --> 2:03:08.400 And if you've seen Roma, for example, the incident, the 2:03:08.440 --> 2:03:11.240 political incident that happens in that movie based on a 2:03:11.280 --> 2:03:15.240 real incident from the seventies, and the tactics of that 2:03:15.360 --> 2:03:18.320 political party, which is the party that controls the state 2:03:18.400 --> 2:03:22.360 government of the state to Lucas In basically it hasn't changed, 2:03:22.840 --> 2:03:26.920 and they seem to have been using these turfs basically 2:03:26.960 --> 2:03:31.080 as shock troops. At one point, there were two sit 2:03:31.160 --> 2:03:34.680 ins outside the state Congress, one to push for a 2:03:34.760 --> 2:03:36.960 gender identity a law and another to push for the 2:03:37.040 --> 2:03:42.760 legalization of abortion, which are obviously both important things. The ladder, however, 2:03:42.960 --> 2:03:47.760 was controlled by these turf groups who later mysteriously never 2:03:48.040 --> 2:03:52.080 seems to appear at other protests asking for the legalization 2:03:52.120 --> 2:03:55.160 of abortion, but they were there and they ran off 2:03:55.360 --> 2:03:59.840 the trans encampment. One of them big incidents was the 2:04:00.000 --> 2:04:02.920 sending the sanctity if the woman's bathroom with barbed wire 2:04:03.360 --> 2:04:07.720 wrapped baseball bats Jesus. These groups have deep ties to 2:04:07.840 --> 2:04:10.880 right wing Mexican political parties, the police, and the growing 2:04:10.880 --> 2:04:13.360 Turf International, and they seem to be very chummy with 2:04:13.440 --> 2:04:21.920 the local police. Their leader UM gives classes, gaves like 2:04:21.960 --> 2:04:28.600 trainings to the state government like that. It's not at 2:04:28.680 --> 2:04:31.320 all you know, you can see live strings of the 2:04:31.560 --> 2:04:35.360 quote unquote protests, and he was mostly them like drinking 2:04:35.720 --> 2:04:38.920 coffee with the cops, like they were on first n 2:04:39.000 --> 2:04:42.480 invasis with the cops, while the the other camp had 2:04:42.600 --> 2:04:46.120 like translument were too scared to go to the bathroom 2:04:46.600 --> 2:04:50.480 because they were going to be attacked. And so that's 2:04:50.800 --> 2:04:54.920 the starkest group, I think, right the do locators, which 2:04:55.000 --> 2:04:58.600 are It's funny because almost every party has their own 2:04:59.640 --> 2:05:03.080 the row group. But yeah, also surprised that p R 2:05:03.320 --> 2:05:06.800 is the scariest. Yeah. We should also say that these 2:05:06.840 --> 2:05:12.600 groups are affiliates with Sheila Jeffreys Women's Declation International UM. 2:05:12.800 --> 2:05:16.320 And so this is also a case of an ideology 2:05:16.640 --> 2:05:21.040 developed in the first world, in this case England, which 2:05:21.160 --> 2:05:25.640 is largely a safe country where even as fascist and 2:05:25.760 --> 2:05:29.360 ideology as turfism doesn't or only very rarely leads to 2:05:30.280 --> 2:05:35.360 real violence, and but it gets exported the countries that 2:05:35.440 --> 2:05:37.880 are not safe where it does turn into real violence. 2:05:38.800 --> 2:05:43.960 So another affiliate um of Sheila Jeffreys Humans Declaration in 2:05:44.080 --> 2:05:48.760 Mexico would be Lesprus Delmar, who is another case of 2:05:49.800 --> 2:05:54.360 At first they seemed to be a group that was 2:05:54.480 --> 2:05:58.879 just they just radicalized a bit too far. Then photos 2:05:58.960 --> 2:06:01.000 came out of their leader, who is on the time 2:06:01.040 --> 2:06:04.640 one hundred a couple of years back with Felippe calther 2:06:04.840 --> 2:06:07.960 On and next president of Mexico, and like by far 2:06:08.120 --> 2:06:11.480 one of the worst in the country's history, and not 2:06:11.680 --> 2:06:15.480 like a like just oh I saw you walking in 2:06:15.520 --> 2:06:18.560 the street. She was at a book signing. It was 2:06:18.640 --> 2:06:21.760 not a casual encounter. It was a clear sign of 2:06:21.840 --> 2:06:26.040 admiration in the It's been more than confirmed since then 2:06:26.160 --> 2:06:31.680 that her political ambitions lie with the p AN, the 2:06:32.760 --> 2:06:39.280 the farthest right mainstream political party in Mexico. This political 2:06:39.320 --> 2:06:42.000 alliance between the Churfs and the right has benefits for 2:06:42.080 --> 2:06:45.960 both sides. The Churfs gained funding institutional backing for their 2:06:46.000 --> 2:06:48.840 war against trans people. The right gained a way to 2:06:48.880 --> 2:06:52.600 attack the vaguely center left Mexican President Andrea's Manuel Lopez 2:06:52.680 --> 2:06:56.560 over door by blaming him and trans people from Mexico's 2:06:56.600 --> 2:06:59.920 horrific wave of femicides were distracting from its actual source 2:07:00.120 --> 2:07:04.400 is NAFTA and the War on drugs. Mexico's trans population, however, 2:07:04.640 --> 2:07:07.560 gained a new Western educated threat. When I say the 2:07:08.240 --> 2:07:12.520 radical feminism was a complete import it's from its very beginning. 2:07:12.600 --> 2:07:15.640 In the for a long while, there was like one 2:07:15.720 --> 2:07:20.480 turf in Mexico, and she was She's called gian Maria Yoyo. 2:07:21.200 --> 2:07:23.720 Don't even try to pronounce her name. I don't think 2:07:23.760 --> 2:07:25.840 she can even pronounce her name because she's white as hell, 2:07:26.320 --> 2:07:29.880 and she always dresses like she's a fucking Rachel dollars 2:07:29.920 --> 2:07:35.120 hell from Mexico. Like she's irony that the first originary 2:07:36.640 --> 2:07:40.400 in Mexico is also the Mexican Raciel doll as well, right, 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:43.040 because she went abroad and was like the only Mexican 2:07:43.120 --> 2:07:45.760 everyone knew. So even though she's white as hell and 2:07:45.800 --> 2:07:50.040 has blue eyes, she started wearing some cotchella motherfucking as 2:07:50.680 --> 2:07:54.360 uh feathers and ship right. Yeah, I've seen I've seen 2:07:54.400 --> 2:07:59.480 these pictures. It's it is, it is like it is. 2:07:59.640 --> 2:08:02.240 It is the Mexican version of and not even just 2:08:02.320 --> 2:08:05.040 the It is the Mexican version of those people like 2:08:05.120 --> 2:08:08.320 Coachella who like wear indigenous head dresses, who are just 2:08:08.720 --> 2:08:11.480 like just like look look like they're descended from like 2:08:13.600 --> 2:08:17.960 hydroc Hembler or something. And like she's she has like 2:08:18.600 --> 2:08:22.080 she has like half French, half a Spanish name and 2:08:22.200 --> 2:08:24.960 she changed it to a half maya half novel name. 2:08:25.040 --> 2:08:28.320 It's gross. So this this person has been active since 2:08:28.320 --> 2:08:31.560 the seventies. Right, she went to she was present in 2:08:31.640 --> 2:08:35.600 the first Pride in Mexico and uh she who that was? 2:08:35.760 --> 2:08:40.960 That was also the two year anniversary of the six massacre. 2:08:41.400 --> 2:08:45.839 So Pride was from the start really leftist here in Mexico, 2:08:46.200 --> 2:08:50.120 but it also had these kind of people the who 2:08:50.400 --> 2:08:54.240 who went to the UK, friends and the United States. 2:08:55.280 --> 2:09:01.800 And I think she was there when Jennie Raymond was 2:09:03.040 --> 2:09:08.000 like sending her friends with guns to to uh threatened 2:09:08.040 --> 2:09:13.120 trans women, right, So that's she. She she was there 2:09:13.240 --> 2:09:18.680 when the turf Wars were at the highest point during 2:09:18.720 --> 2:09:24.760 the seventies and then came back and parton she plasticipating 2:09:24.800 --> 2:09:28.480 a lot of history of Mexican feminism. But the time 2:09:28.560 --> 2:09:32.240 that she came back in two thousand sixteen with that 2:09:32.440 --> 2:09:36.880 letter with that backing because she is also close to 2:09:37.000 --> 2:09:40.440 Jennie Raymond with the Coalition again against Trafficking in Women 2:09:41.920 --> 2:09:47.600 who the Coalition Against Trafficking, the Coalition against Trafficking in 2:09:47.680 --> 2:09:54.320 Women cat W has a lot of After the Third Wars, 2:09:54.640 --> 2:09:59.080 they went underground in the in academia and the universities 2:09:59.160 --> 2:10:01.640 right because they were no are accepted, but they were 2:10:02.760 --> 2:10:07.280 in the process of building NGOs that could globally affect 2:10:07.360 --> 2:10:12.480 policy on UH, specifically sex working trans rights. And you 2:10:12.600 --> 2:10:15.880 can tell that Jean media I saw that that was 2:10:16.040 --> 2:10:19.680 her only opportunity to resurface UH and to make her 2:10:20.000 --> 2:10:23.920 seventies as UH. She saw that seventies rat M discourse 2:10:24.120 --> 2:10:27.840 was retro now and so she became like this UH 2:10:28.280 --> 2:10:33.640 found founding matrix for the new generation of transpos. One 2:10:33.720 --> 2:10:36.640 of them which is Lauda Lequana who is part of 2:10:37.200 --> 2:10:42.640 FEMBA and the Gean Madia and Lekuana were not faced 2:10:42.680 --> 2:10:47.400 at all by the accusitions of alligned with the reactionaries 2:10:47.440 --> 2:10:50.200 because they know their history, they know where they come from, 2:10:50.280 --> 2:10:53.200 and they know that this is how Dorkin survived, this 2:10:53.440 --> 2:10:59.600 is how UH, how Sheila Jefferies and Jennie Raymond survived. 2:10:59.640 --> 2:11:03.360 This is where you get the fucking money in lateral 2:11:03.400 --> 2:11:08.360 Liquna gehan Maria and turned the whole environment around them 2:11:08.560 --> 2:11:13.960 into these uh well these surf questions. The only two 2:11:14.040 --> 2:11:19.040 issues that we talked about nowadays in Mexican feminism are 2:11:20.120 --> 2:11:25.360 our president and trans people. It's kind of gross Jesus. 2:11:26.680 --> 2:11:31.240 And that's like, remember, like there's only a handful of 2:11:31.320 --> 2:11:35.560 states that have legalized abortion. There's femicides happening all the time, 2:11:36.280 --> 2:11:42.800 and but we're we continue to debate these two issues 2:11:43.080 --> 2:11:45.400 over and over and over again like a feedback group, 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:49.000 and like, as trans people, we don't have any choice 2:11:49.080 --> 2:11:52.840 because we're the targets of this right. And it's not 2:11:53.600 --> 2:11:57.440 it's not an academic debate. Last fall, um there was 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:03.640 some turfs who had taken over a public park to 2:12:03.880 --> 2:12:07.520 set up their separatist space, and there was a disabled 2:12:07.760 --> 2:12:12.720 assist woman and her chance girlfriend who are denied entry 2:12:12.800 --> 2:12:17.840 at the park and threatened with tasers. And so when 2:12:17.880 --> 2:12:23.680 they're taking over these public spaces and using violence to 2:12:23.720 --> 2:12:25.919 defend them, because the next week there is a protest 2:12:26.480 --> 2:12:31.120 over this and they there they they taste to transpan 2:12:32.480 --> 2:12:35.280 and it's like this is like a public park like, 2:12:35.800 --> 2:12:39.560 of course we have to defend ourselves. The Coalition against 2:12:39.600 --> 2:12:44.800 Trafficking and Women or cat W, an international antisex worker 2:12:44.920 --> 2:12:48.080 group which provided a refuge for white turfs driven from 2:12:48.160 --> 2:12:51.200 mainstream feminism in their home countries, has been a major 2:12:51.280 --> 2:12:54.480 source of Turfy influence in Latin America. There is there 2:12:54.560 --> 2:12:59.040 is so much important of this ideology towards radical feminists 2:12:59.040 --> 2:13:02.360 in Mexico. UH. It's that they needed something to say 2:13:02.400 --> 2:13:06.120 and something to do and and something to feel the 2:13:06.200 --> 2:13:11.840 void UH in organizing and inn geos and the people 2:13:11.880 --> 2:13:16.840 who stepped up where Jannie Raymond's car w right, the 2:13:17.360 --> 2:13:20.920 Coalition against Trafficking in Women who Sings and nan indies. 2:13:21.440 --> 2:13:27.560 UH spent UH a decade and a half building contexts 2:13:27.680 --> 2:13:32.000 in the in the U, N, in the oas in 2:13:32.200 --> 2:13:37.000 several international organisms to extend their influence across the whole 2:13:37.040 --> 2:13:41.080 continent and specifically in Latin America. And UH you can 2:13:41.160 --> 2:13:45.120 see the effecting stuff like stuff like Venezuela where they 2:13:45.920 --> 2:13:51.640 broke up sex worker unions too two with the the 2:13:51.800 --> 2:13:55.360 O S right and in Mexico, the founding leader of 2:13:55.680 --> 2:13:59.880 the Mexican branch of of cab W, Teresa used to 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:06.040 a un employee, specifically, it's drug and crime segment. And 2:14:06.440 --> 2:14:09.320 before she was like a radical feminist. She used to 2:14:09.520 --> 2:14:15.920 conduct drug rades in Chapa's and yeah, and after that 2:14:16.280 --> 2:14:19.960 she became UH the founding member of cad W Latin 2:14:20.000 --> 2:14:25.480 America and the Caribbean. And with Janice Raymond, they you 2:14:25.560 --> 2:14:30.160 can see them go together to the Beijing Conference on 2:14:30.240 --> 2:14:34.880 Women and they influenced like those they they were a 2:14:34.960 --> 2:14:37.320 big part of why gender is not recognized as a 2:14:37.400 --> 2:14:40.360 social construct by the u N. They allied with the 2:14:40.480 --> 2:14:44.040 Holy See, with the representative from the Vatican in the 2:14:44.160 --> 2:14:47.640 u N, got together with a couple of radical feminists 2:14:47.800 --> 2:14:50.440 and pushed back against gender being recognized as a social 2:14:50.480 --> 2:14:56.400 construct in N. So that's the level of influence these 2:14:56.440 --> 2:15:01.280 groups have in Mexico. UH, these groups wh morphed into 2:15:01.400 --> 2:15:06.720 the cop W, UH supported the war and drugs from 2:15:06.760 --> 2:15:12.080 the get go. They were very high in some of 2:15:12.200 --> 2:15:15.520 the biggest events in now curating the war and drugs. 2:15:15.880 --> 2:15:19.800 They were present right there because if you're fighting drug trafficking, 2:15:21.120 --> 2:15:24.400 it's very easy to just sleep the word human right there. Right, 2:15:24.800 --> 2:15:27.840 No politicians gonna say no. They all fucking love to 2:15:27.920 --> 2:15:32.120 say yeah, I'm hard on on human trafficking, and the 2:15:32.200 --> 2:15:37.200 way that UH showed itself was just targeting trans sex 2:15:37.280 --> 2:15:41.560 workers and migrant sex workers. And with that and that 2:15:41.800 --> 2:15:45.880 feeding the agenda of Jenny's raymon perfectly. Sheila Jefferies gotta 2:15:46.280 --> 2:15:50.960 basically survived the whole two thousand's on writing garbage for 2:15:51.160 --> 2:15:55.040 reports for the u N. Most of her published works 2:15:55.240 --> 2:15:59.879 during the two thousands and early twenty tents. It's stuffed 2:16:00.000 --> 2:16:08.400 aid for cattle. You and they they they In two 2:16:08.400 --> 2:16:11.600 thousands sixteen, they started pushing for more and more anti 2:16:11.680 --> 2:16:15.120 trans legislation worldwide because they could see the writing on 2:16:15.160 --> 2:16:20.960 the world right. They were behind the Women's Declaration. The 2:16:21.960 --> 2:16:25.400 La Jeffers is not okay. She is part of catally 2:16:25.480 --> 2:16:28.640 she just I think cad W Australia. She has her 2:16:28.680 --> 2:16:31.840 own all other politics called Space International, which is behind 2:16:31.920 --> 2:16:35.200 Foster Sista by the way in the US, where she 2:16:35.440 --> 2:16:39.720 allied with a couple of conservative sheriffs to write that legislation. 2:16:40.840 --> 2:16:44.320 So we could go on and on on. How like 2:16:44.680 --> 2:16:49.840 people that read that our transitions think are gone and 2:16:50.160 --> 2:16:53.360 forgotten by history. Right, the authors of these horrible books 2:16:53.400 --> 2:16:56.960 that haunts us to this day are still active, and 2:16:57.080 --> 2:16:59.520 not just in the US, they're active in Mexico, in 2:16:59.640 --> 2:17:05.640 the UK, in France, in South Africa, in Korea. Korea 2:17:05.920 --> 2:17:09.560 is huge in I think I would say Korea is 2:17:09.760 --> 2:17:12.320 as has as big a problem as Mexico and the UK. 2:17:13.280 --> 2:17:15.800 We just don't talk to them as much and we 2:17:15.879 --> 2:17:19.440 can't realize that. But if you check them the languages 2:17:19.640 --> 2:17:23.800 that have signed the Shila Jeffreys Declaration against Trands People, 2:17:23.920 --> 2:17:27.400 which is a specifically general sidal, the Coloration Decloration, it 2:17:27.520 --> 2:17:30.560 doesn't stop at like legislation. It wants to exterminate us 2:17:30.840 --> 2:17:34.520 out right. Yeah, and most of them, you were going 2:17:34.560 --> 2:17:36.480 to see a lot of Brazilian flags, a lot of 2:17:36.560 --> 2:17:40.320 Mexican flags, a lot of Korean flags, even more than 2:17:40.720 --> 2:17:44.880 the United States flags. And if you track the USA flags, 2:17:45.200 --> 2:17:48.840 it's mostly like weird randalls that have yoga classes and 2:17:48.920 --> 2:17:51.760 ship it's not relevant politicians. But if you track the 2:17:51.800 --> 2:17:54.840 other countries, you're gonna find some of the biggest collectives 2:17:54.879 --> 2:17:57.720 in the in their own countries. You're gonna find or 2:17:58.080 --> 2:18:00.440 just spooks, right, You're gonna find a lot people who 2:18:00.520 --> 2:18:03.560 have really weird careers that spend a lot of time 2:18:03.560 --> 2:18:10.560 in Italy and Uganda. It's it's it's a never ending 2:18:11.080 --> 2:18:16.080 uh rabbit hole of of of spooks, of conservatives, of 2:18:17.200 --> 2:18:21.080 have been feminists that have regranted as NGOs to get 2:18:21.200 --> 2:18:25.480 money from those groups and directed towards breaking up trans rights, 2:18:25.640 --> 2:18:31.000 towards affecting sex workers, towards breaking unions, breaking student movements. 2:18:31.640 --> 2:18:37.840 It's a global movement that is birthed by conservative thought, 2:18:38.000 --> 2:18:40.640 but getting more and more reactionary and more and more 2:18:40.720 --> 2:18:45.000 organized as time goes by. That international transphobic movement has 2:18:45.040 --> 2:18:48.200 increasingly found purchased in the US. I spoke to Lee 2:18:48.360 --> 2:18:51.920 Liaville and Kai Shiver's, two members of Health Liberation Now 2:18:52.040 --> 2:18:55.600 with intimate experience with the turf movement who spent years 2:18:55.640 --> 2:19:01.280 particularly documenting its rise. So my first shouldn't is can 2:19:01.360 --> 2:19:05.920 you'll explain what Wolf actually is? And I guess subsequent 2:19:06.040 --> 2:19:11.760 to that, what the relationship to hands across the aisle is? Um? Yeah, 2:19:11.959 --> 2:19:19.640 so Wolf is. Um. They're transphobic feminist groups, UM with 2:19:19.959 --> 2:19:24.520 at this point extensive ties to right wing organizations. Um. 2:19:24.680 --> 2:19:28.800 They've worked with Family Policy Alliance here, did Foundation Alliance 2:19:28.840 --> 2:19:34.240 Defending Freedom Concerned, went for America Family Research Cultural among others. Um. 2:19:35.520 --> 2:19:40.760 But they um, they got their start um and they 2:19:40.800 --> 2:19:46.440 started back in two thousand thirteen around when they were 2:19:46.480 --> 2:19:48.480 founded by the Are Keith, who also was one of 2:19:48.520 --> 2:19:52.720 the leaders of Deep Cream Resistance, and she basically got like, um, 2:19:52.959 --> 2:19:56.800 kind of run out of anarchists and environmentalist groups and 2:19:56.840 --> 2:20:01.000 then kind of like went over to uh established like 2:20:01.120 --> 2:20:03.960 turf communities to try and recruit there. So I sort 2:20:03.959 --> 2:20:07.200 of like started out trying to like recruit from these 2:20:07.320 --> 2:20:12.720 like older turf and transphobic lesbian communities. And then after 2:20:12.879 --> 2:20:17.760 Trump got elected and um, you know, the conservative Christians 2:20:17.800 --> 2:20:20.400 on the far right became more mobilized and more empowered. 2:20:20.720 --> 2:20:23.160 They kind of like rebranded themselves and we're like, oh, 2:20:23.280 --> 2:20:25.879 let's form alliances with these right wing groups, and they 2:20:25.959 --> 2:20:30.760 kind of like traded. They're sort of like like crunchy 2:20:31.320 --> 2:20:35.800 lesbian feminists like like image for like Kara Danski, who 2:20:36.040 --> 2:20:40.960 like you know, is a straight, fairly feminine looking woman 2:20:41.120 --> 2:20:43.600 who used to work for the CLU and and like 2:20:43.680 --> 2:20:46.520 a Democrat and like you know, she's way more presentable 2:20:46.600 --> 2:20:50.120 to like a conservative audience. You know. By working with 2:20:50.240 --> 2:20:53.280 the right then they have access to like money and 2:20:53.600 --> 2:20:55.960 power and they can get easier from the get on 2:20:56.040 --> 2:20:59.320 the media. Like like Kara Dyansky is no longer with Wolf, 2:20:59.400 --> 2:21:01.280 but like she was with them for years and still 2:21:01.320 --> 2:21:03.440 has relations, like like good relations with them, And you've 2:21:03.480 --> 2:21:07.400 been on the Tucker Carlson Show like many times. So 2:21:07.720 --> 2:21:12.000 I think one of the important pieces when it comes 2:21:12.080 --> 2:21:18.039 to understanding like how this relationship with the right started. 2:21:18.200 --> 2:21:24.039 So in in late two thousand and sixteen, Wolf put forward, 2:21:24.120 --> 2:21:27.680 they're filing against the US Department of Justice and US 2:21:27.720 --> 2:21:30.640 Department of Education, right, and they were going up against 2:21:30.760 --> 2:21:35.080 aspects of like trying to reform Title nine to include 2:21:35.280 --> 2:21:39.960 gender identity, you know, to to protect folks um who 2:21:40.040 --> 2:21:43.680 need to be able to use the like women's restroom, 2:21:43.760 --> 2:21:46.120 our locker room or whatever. Right. And this is the 2:21:46.160 --> 2:21:48.400 case that they ended up getting some of the A 2:21:48.480 --> 2:21:50.680 d F funding for. So it's like one of the 2:21:50.800 --> 2:21:55.760 first official seeds I guess of the direct collaboration ended 2:21:55.840 --> 2:21:58.800 up happening. Those a lot of that stuff did up 2:21:59.000 --> 2:22:01.240 eventually end up getting late and then they started doing 2:22:01.360 --> 2:22:05.760 some more official collaborations just a few months later, um 2:22:05.800 --> 2:22:08.680 when they were working with like Family Policy Alliance, UM 2:22:08.879 --> 2:22:13.640 BILE amicust briefs against Gavin Grimm again out of bathroom case. Yeah, 2:22:13.720 --> 2:22:15.160 they took something like I think it was like fifteen 2:22:15.200 --> 2:22:18.080 thousand dollars from the Alliance depending Freedom, which is one 2:22:18.080 --> 2:22:21.320 of the main like right wing groups like like trying 2:22:21.360 --> 2:22:23.520 to pass all these like anti trans bills like going 2:22:23.560 --> 2:22:27.000 after a pediatric transition and trans girls and in women's sports. 2:22:27.680 --> 2:22:29.640 So they took that money and then yeah, then later 2:22:29.760 --> 2:22:32.520 like I think, like, um, the whole working with Family 2:22:32.600 --> 2:22:34.640 Policy Alliance, I believe was the first time they like 2:22:34.800 --> 2:22:37.879 publicly allied with with the right ring group. I think, 2:22:37.959 --> 2:22:40.920 so that yeah, in January of two thousand seventeen. Yeah, 2:22:40.959 --> 2:22:44.080 and then they've just sort of like, yeah, like they 2:22:44.080 --> 2:22:47.360 also were involved with the amicust brief against was it 2:22:47.520 --> 2:22:52.840 Amy stefens Um another Supreme Court case I can't remember. Yeah, 2:22:53.000 --> 2:22:55.520 I wouldn't surprise me. And like members of both have 2:22:55.600 --> 2:22:59.360 appeared on like Heritage Foundation panels. They helped like released 2:22:59.360 --> 2:23:02.760 apparent Resource Guide and anti transparent resource Guide that was 2:23:02.760 --> 2:23:07.560 also sponsored by like Heritage Foundation, Family Policy Alliance. This 2:23:07.720 --> 2:23:10.680 this this is very similar to almost exactly what you 2:23:10.720 --> 2:23:13.840 see in Mexico, with just sort of slightly less physical violence, 2:23:14.400 --> 2:23:16.560 which yeah, it's it's a lot of you know, and 2:23:16.720 --> 2:23:18.640 the other the other thing is that these are to 2:23:18.720 --> 2:23:21.200 a large extent exactly the same organizations. And that was 2:23:21.240 --> 2:23:22.520 one of the other things you want to talk about 2:23:22.600 --> 2:23:25.959 was the influence of Sheila Jeffreys and the Women's Declaration, 2:23:26.040 --> 2:23:32.760 which has been all over this whole movement. Yeah, the 2:23:32.840 --> 2:23:34.440 one thing to point out, so, like you know, the 2:23:35.040 --> 2:23:38.360 Women's Declaration International is in this in the US is 2:23:38.440 --> 2:23:42.000 led by Karatanski, who you know, she like basically like left. 2:23:42.040 --> 2:23:43.520 She worked at World for a long time and still 2:23:43.560 --> 2:23:46.080 has lots of connections with Thumb, is on good terms 2:23:46.120 --> 2:23:48.520 with them, but she like left and now is like 2:23:48.680 --> 2:23:53.040 working with Women Dexploration International of US France. So and 2:23:53.400 --> 2:23:56.280 as she winds up having kind of like a foot 2:23:56.320 --> 2:23:58.840 in both worlds at the same time too. So like 2:23:59.040 --> 2:24:06.680 she'll like the US chapter Women's Declaration International previously like 2:24:07.400 --> 2:24:10.640 Women's Human Rights Campaign before they had to rebrand. Um 2:24:11.160 --> 2:24:19.480 they was. But if you if you read this comic, yeah, yeah, 2:24:20.040 --> 2:24:26.040 exactly exactly. Um So, what what ends up happening is 2:24:26.360 --> 2:24:32.720 that Kara Danski will either like have the chapter sponsor 2:24:33.120 --> 2:24:38.640 particular events or she herself will become actively involved in 2:24:38.760 --> 2:24:41.640 the formation of the events, right, which we saw happen 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:46.120 with UM Women Pickett d C last year where they 2:24:46.160 --> 2:24:50.320 were parking themselves outside of that was like it was 2:24:50.440 --> 2:24:55.360 a well, that was that was a whole fix. Oh god, 2:24:56.120 --> 2:24:59.000 it was a purchase that happened on International Women's Day 2:24:59.040 --> 2:25:03.520 to protest the the Equality Act. Yeah, it's it's not 2:25:03.720 --> 2:25:07.480 like it's people's first time dealing with the Equality Act either. 2:25:07.720 --> 2:25:13.280 I mean, like so prior prior to that point, which 2:25:13.360 --> 2:25:18.520 and this starts to go into them like hands across 2:25:18.560 --> 2:25:22.960 the Aisle Coalition because they were actively involved in opposing 2:25:23.160 --> 2:25:28.520 the Equality Act as well, so to to kind of 2:25:28.640 --> 2:25:31.560 roll back a little bit, um, the hands across the 2:25:31.560 --> 2:25:35.879 Aisle Coalition. This was something that started developing in early 2:25:36.080 --> 2:25:39.640 two thousand seventeen, you know, not that long after Wolf 2:25:39.760 --> 2:25:44.880 started building the more direct relationships with the Right, and 2:25:45.040 --> 2:25:48.640 so that the people of this coalition would have like 2:25:48.800 --> 2:25:51.360 you would have members of the Right itself. And in 2:25:51.480 --> 2:25:55.440 the process of that UM towards the beginning of two 2:25:55.480 --> 2:26:00.920 thousand nineteen, in May, they filed this joint letter to 2:26:01.760 --> 2:26:06.920 the House of Representative Speaker Nancy Pelosi to oppose things 2:26:07.120 --> 2:26:11.800 like the Equality Act UM. And they did so alongside 2:26:11.920 --> 2:26:17.520 with Natasha Chart representing Wolf, Concerned Women for America, American 2:26:17.560 --> 2:26:20.840 College of Pediatricians, Family Research Council, you know, a whole 2:26:20.879 --> 2:26:23.760 bunch of really just awful names, and they're, oh, yeah, 2:26:23.760 --> 2:26:27.000 the idea involved, Yes, it's it's it's it's really the 2:26:27.120 --> 2:26:29.560 Rose Gallery of all of the people who were anti 2:26:29.600 --> 2:26:33.320 gay marriage until we still are but have downplayed it. 2:26:33.520 --> 2:26:34.880 And yeah, all the people who let the anti game 2:26:34.879 --> 2:26:37.920 marriage campaigns, all of the sort of weird right wing 2:26:39.400 --> 2:26:43.840 pseudo medical bodies. The next thing I wanted to ask 2:26:43.920 --> 2:26:46.520 about is what's been happening in the last couple of 2:26:46.680 --> 2:26:49.440 years with the fusion, Because so you already have your 2:26:49.520 --> 2:26:54.040 your alliance between the turfs and the evangelicals, but in 2:26:54.080 --> 2:26:58.280 the last couple of years, we've seen a I don't 2:26:58.280 --> 2:27:00.480 know if if full scale is the right term to 2:27:00.680 --> 2:27:02.760 use for it, but we've seen a merger of this 2:27:03.640 --> 2:27:06.200 with Save the Children and Q and on stuff. It's 2:27:06.640 --> 2:27:10.039 you can talk about that. That's okay. So that's an 2:27:10.120 --> 2:27:13.920 interesting one because like I've I've been digging into the 2:27:14.040 --> 2:27:20.199 timeline of this stuff extensively. It's like I've got hundreds 2:27:20.600 --> 2:27:24.520 hundreds of listings trying to figure out where different cases 2:27:24.560 --> 2:27:29.200 are coming from and trying to understand like the phases. Right, 2:27:29.400 --> 2:27:33.600 So you've got like the formation, the solidification, and then 2:27:33.640 --> 2:27:36.600 the escalation, and we're kind of in the escalation stage 2:27:36.800 --> 2:27:40.760 right now. But so one of the things that I 2:27:41.240 --> 2:27:47.640 started to notice is that elements of this crossover, like 2:27:47.760 --> 2:27:53.280 the cross pollination that was happening, actually predated certain key 2:27:53.360 --> 2:27:57.360 events that we now now are affiliated with Q and On. Right, 2:27:57.840 --> 2:28:03.599 So if we think about out the actual like development 2:28:03.920 --> 2:28:06.520 of Q and ON itself, so you've got the pizza 2:28:06.600 --> 2:28:10.119 Gate thing that was happening in like October two thousand 2:28:10.120 --> 2:28:14.480 and sixteen. I believe that was, um, you know, right 2:28:14.600 --> 2:28:18.840 before Trump was getting elected, and you know, kicking up 2:28:18.920 --> 2:28:22.680 some stuff about like you know, Hillary Clinton's emails and 2:28:22.760 --> 2:28:26.400 stuff like that to go up against her election campaign 2:28:26.440 --> 2:28:29.520 in opposition to Trump, and then you know, folding in 2:28:29.640 --> 2:28:33.680 the harassment towards UM comment Ping Pong to the point 2:28:33.760 --> 2:28:37.400 where like Edgar Madison Wealth shows up at Comment Ping 2:28:37.480 --> 2:28:40.400 Pong in December of two thousand and sixteen with an 2:28:40.480 --> 2:28:42.960 a R fifteen style rifle and starts, you know, firing 2:28:43.040 --> 2:28:49.720 off his shots and stuff like that. Right, And so eventually, um, 2:28:50.120 --> 2:28:53.160 most people know that the timeline of the Q and 2:28:53.280 --> 2:28:56.480 On drops happening around like October two thousand seventeen. Like 2:28:56.560 --> 2:28:59.360 if you look up the original like the first known 2:28:59.640 --> 2:29:03.920 Q robs, I believe that was like October two tho 2:29:04.200 --> 2:29:09.039 seventeen on four Chan. But the thing is that if 2:29:09.120 --> 2:29:15.160 you look at references to save the Children or save 2:29:15.280 --> 2:29:18.720 our Children on like Twitter, the hashtags, and you're also 2:29:18.840 --> 2:29:22.560 looking for trans phobia related stuff, you can actually start 2:29:22.640 --> 2:29:28.119 to see that crossover happening before the original que drops happened. Right, Yeah, 2:29:28.240 --> 2:29:32.920 I found I found tweets that were connecting trans inclusion 2:29:33.200 --> 2:29:36.480 education in schools to pedophilia and using the save the 2:29:36.560 --> 2:29:40.280 Children hashtag in August of two thousand seventeen. The que 2:29:40.400 --> 2:29:44.040 drops hadn't started yet, so and this is something this 2:29:44.240 --> 2:29:49.520 pattern continues to happen. Right There were also multiple um, 2:29:50.680 --> 2:29:53.360 you know, tweets or Facebook posts or whatever that would 2:29:53.360 --> 2:29:56.920 start to use things like save the Children, Save our Children, 2:29:57.040 --> 2:30:00.760 Wake Up America, and stuff like that before you would 2:30:00.800 --> 2:30:04.600 have the big scale takeover by Q and on when 2:30:04.680 --> 2:30:08.160 things were starting to get really popular, because the save 2:30:08.280 --> 2:30:12.080 the Children thing really went viral in the summer of 2:30:14.720 --> 2:30:17.960 but you could still see elements of it before that 2:30:18.120 --> 2:30:25.080 point repeatedly. So another early instance of using both save 2:30:25.160 --> 2:30:29.200 the Children and Wake Up America hashtags started happening on 2:30:29.840 --> 2:30:33.720 UM April. I believe that is a two thousand nineteen 2:30:34.080 --> 2:30:38.240 and bear in mind wake Up America UM is a 2:30:38.400 --> 2:30:41.720 hashtag that's not only used by Q and on proponents 2:30:41.959 --> 2:30:46.880 UM in relation to the whole like accelerationism trying to 2:30:48.240 --> 2:30:52.760 yep deep state stuff UM, but also like Aaron Brewer, 2:30:53.200 --> 2:30:55.960 one of the people that was involved in some of 2:30:56.040 --> 2:30:59.720 the clinic protests harassments, was using that. It wasn't just 2:30:59.840 --> 2:31:02.119 a was wasn't just Brewer, it was like both Brewer 2:31:02.160 --> 2:31:05.199 it was. That was the clinic protest that involved both 2:31:05.440 --> 2:31:09.080 UM Partner's Celtical CARPEC, which Brewer was, remember like one 2:31:09.120 --> 2:31:10.320 of the founders of at the time and one of 2:31:10.320 --> 2:31:14.160 the leaders of and Joey Bright's like can't I get 2:31:14.200 --> 2:31:16.720 a witness? Like they teamed up to stage a bunch 2:31:16.800 --> 2:31:20.200 of clinic protests that they used wake up like wake 2:31:20.240 --> 2:31:22.000 of America was one of the slogans that they used 2:31:22.040 --> 2:31:27.120 in one of the hashtags are to so to to 2:31:27.160 --> 2:31:30.279 make sure we're getting this. Uh, these are protest against 2:31:30.360 --> 2:31:33.280 clinics that offer gender firming care. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah 2:31:33.360 --> 2:31:39.320 yeah that um yeah, that that happened. That one so yeah, 2:31:39.360 --> 2:31:43.800 the Wake Up America one was in um Felt Lake City, 2:31:44.480 --> 2:31:47.920 New York City and l A. Yeah, and they also, 2:31:48.080 --> 2:31:52.320 I mean, speaking of umstas, they also have used the 2:31:52.480 --> 2:31:57.280 slogan pulled back the Curtain UM, which has also been 2:31:57.400 --> 2:32:02.280 used by uh like anti choice activists, Like that was 2:32:02.360 --> 2:32:05.000 I remember, like like finding like they used pulled back 2:32:05.040 --> 2:32:06.480 the curtain a lot to be like they what they 2:32:06.520 --> 2:32:09.920 mean is like they're expose the evil gender industry. But 2:32:10.240 --> 2:32:14.520 like the other this like UM anti abortion group, I'm 2:32:14.560 --> 2:32:16.840 blinking on which one off the top of my head. 2:32:16.920 --> 2:32:19.480 But they also used that um pulled back the curtain 2:32:19.640 --> 2:32:22.959 to go after planned parent put yeah, which I think 2:32:23.120 --> 2:32:27.360 is like probably like that doesn't I'm for a direct connection, 2:32:27.520 --> 2:32:31.520 but it seems like that's too much of a coincidence 2:32:31.560 --> 2:32:33.880 in one of the one of the things that I 2:32:33.959 --> 2:32:36.560 really want to stress about this called like what I 2:32:36.680 --> 2:32:41.640 call tan on thing is that like the seeds for this, 2:32:41.959 --> 2:32:45.160 the cross pollination that we are seeing happening between the 2:32:45.240 --> 2:32:48.600 gender critical movement, pizza Gate, and Q and on, like 2:32:49.080 --> 2:32:53.279 these were already in place before Q and On formally 2:32:53.440 --> 2:32:58.760 developed as its own phenomenon. This keeps happening. It's you 2:32:59.000 --> 2:33:04.280 can't really like figure out where one particular type of 2:33:04.360 --> 2:33:07.560 rhetoric is necessarily coming from in terms of its source, 2:33:07.879 --> 2:33:11.320 because it just keeps going back and forth repeatedly. People 2:33:11.360 --> 2:33:16.560 are acting like they're coming up with a lot of 2:33:16.600 --> 2:33:21.320 the same ideas together because in the end, in the end, 2:33:21.879 --> 2:33:25.359 they are of the same roots. They are in fundamental 2:33:25.440 --> 2:33:28.440 agreement with each other. Whether they're calling themselves different names. 2:33:29.600 --> 2:33:31.879 I think that's that's worries to be in a lot 2:33:31.959 --> 2:33:35.959 of ways, partly because you know, I mean, this has 2:33:36.040 --> 2:33:40.400 always been something where if you look at the rhetoric 2:33:40.720 --> 2:33:43.879 that these people are spreading, it's like it's explicitly exterminationist, 2:33:43.959 --> 2:33:48.320 like it's it's you know, like they they're they're storychiatric terrorists, 2:33:48.360 --> 2:33:50.320 like in search of a like a quote unquote load wolf, 2:33:50.600 --> 2:33:52.920 and in a lot of you know, and in the seventies, 2:33:52.959 --> 2:33:56.480 I think they were. There's there's a lot more explicit 2:33:56.640 --> 2:33:59.200 violence that these people are doing directly, and now they're 2:33:59.280 --> 2:34:03.240 kind of like they're they're they're trying to find people 2:34:03.320 --> 2:34:05.240 who will do their already work for them, and there 2:34:05.280 --> 2:34:07.320 are places where they found them already. We've seen this 2:34:07.360 --> 2:34:10.320 in Mexico and in the US. The people who they 2:34:10.680 --> 2:34:14.440 seem to be recruiting are people who are extremely dangerous. 2:34:14.480 --> 2:34:17.080 We've we've seen q and on people have killed enormous 2:34:17.120 --> 2:34:20.520 numbers of people. Um, you know, we've there's a long 2:34:20.640 --> 2:34:23.840 history of of abortion clinic bombings and people getting asassinated 2:34:23.920 --> 2:34:25.360 for that. I mean, I think, you know, one of 2:34:25.440 --> 2:34:30.360 the connections that I've been sort of like looking at 2:34:30.560 --> 2:34:33.520 is the extent to which this stuff is connected to 2:34:33.560 --> 2:34:35.440 the Atlantis shooting, because if you if you look at 2:34:35.560 --> 2:34:38.440 the stuff, the Atlanta shooter believes it's you know, like 2:34:38.720 --> 2:34:41.279 he's in this like in the same sort of Christian 2:34:41.320 --> 2:34:46.199 patriarchal project and his thing is specifically about sex workers. 2:34:46.240 --> 2:34:50.240 But hey, look if you look at yeah, a particularly 2:34:50.280 --> 2:34:52.160 Asian sex workers, and you know, if if if you 2:34:52.240 --> 2:34:53.720 if you look at the anti trafficking groups and you 2:34:53.720 --> 2:34:55.480 look at the Christian anti trafficking groups and you look 2:34:55.480 --> 2:34:58.080 at the ven diagram with them and the Turfs, it's like, oh, 2:34:59.600 --> 2:35:06.720 and I'm able are involved, Yeah that particular world, And yeah, 2:35:06.879 --> 2:35:10.039 there's there's this kind of vice closing it on trans people. 2:35:10.080 --> 2:35:13.720 Were on the one hand, you have these people attempting 2:35:13.720 --> 2:35:16.680 to employ the violence of the state, and on the 2:35:16.800 --> 2:35:20.200 other hand, you have this sort of stoke giatric terrorism 2:35:20.280 --> 2:35:24.519 where they're attempting to incite violence by sort of individuals. 2:35:24.600 --> 2:35:26.120 And then also, I mean, I think I think there's 2:35:26.360 --> 2:35:27.760 you know, there's sort of there's sort of two forms 2:35:27.800 --> 2:35:29.920 of this, right. There's the explicit people who are explicitly 2:35:30.040 --> 2:35:32.000 like quote unquote political right. You have you have your 2:35:32.000 --> 2:35:35.920 sort of like ideological street fascist. You have like you know, 2:35:36.080 --> 2:35:39.480 you have your people with baseball bass covered and barred wire. 2:35:39.959 --> 2:35:44.640 But then you also have the stuff that's been fueling 2:35:44.640 --> 2:35:48.240 antiation violence where it's not necessarily like you know, there 2:35:48.320 --> 2:35:50.879 is a this is an organization that like hates Asian people. 2:35:51.000 --> 2:35:54.160 It's we will just sort of passively increase the rhetoric 2:35:54.280 --> 2:35:57.560 until the level of violence increases. Yeah, it kind of 2:35:57.600 --> 2:35:59.400 got like you've got the street bash and then you've 2:35:59.440 --> 2:36:02.040 got the intelle actual fash. Yeah. Well, and and I 2:36:02.080 --> 2:36:04.160 think but I think also there's there's another Like if 2:36:04.200 --> 2:36:06.200 it was just those people, I think it'd be less bad. 2:36:06.280 --> 2:36:09.400 But but there's also just the way in which just 2:36:09.760 --> 2:36:14.119 random people who are encountering this become very quickly radicalized 2:36:14.160 --> 2:36:16.440 and it becomes part of sort of I mean, and 2:36:16.520 --> 2:36:18.080 trets up with violence has always been part of the 2:36:18.120 --> 2:36:20.280 sort of background violence in the same way that anti 2:36:20.360 --> 2:36:22.680 black and so I mean, you know, okay, the level 2:36:22.720 --> 2:36:25.720 of anti black violence is much higher, but like the 2:36:26.040 --> 2:36:28.600 level of violence against black trans people in particular, and 2:36:28.959 --> 2:36:30.880 the level of anti Asian violence we've been seeing that 2:36:31.080 --> 2:36:33.280 has just sort of it's just a part of the 2:36:33.320 --> 2:36:38.160 background violence of American society, and that the levels of 2:36:38.280 --> 2:36:42.000 those things, the more of this rhetoric gets circulated and 2:36:42.080 --> 2:36:46.039 the more this activism happens, that background level of violence increases, 2:36:46.080 --> 2:36:49.320 and that to me is also terrifying because it means 2:36:49.360 --> 2:36:51.880 like it's not just sort of like fascist so you 2:36:51.959 --> 2:36:55.400 can track it's just someone on the street. Yeah, and yeah, 2:36:55.400 --> 2:36:58.720 they're just sort of like trying to like like associate 2:36:59.080 --> 2:37:03.280 like well, I mean a lot of the like yeah 2:37:03.320 --> 2:37:08.080 that like people like like Felik and erin um alex 2:37:08.120 --> 2:37:10.240 Their and the gender Member and doy Brand stuff like that, 2:37:10.400 --> 2:37:13.600 Like they're they're hardcore like elimination as like they're like 2:37:13.680 --> 2:37:16.680 they're over and over the comm compromise. And I would 2:37:16.760 --> 2:37:20.279 also especially like anti fascist networks to pay more attention 2:37:20.360 --> 2:37:24.879 to it, because you know that solidarity with trans people 2:37:25.640 --> 2:37:30.000 is just as important as solidarity with like racial and 2:37:30.080 --> 2:37:33.840 ethnic minorities when it comes to combating fact, right, especially 2:37:33.920 --> 2:37:36.280 since like there are a number of us that are 2:37:36.440 --> 2:37:41.040 in multiple categories, so like let's all work together and 2:37:41.160 --> 2:37:45.680 try to like you know, be proactive about combating the threat. Right. 2:37:45.800 --> 2:37:52.040 So my my tan on Um collections, I guess, like 2:37:52.200 --> 2:37:55.560 I only have two reports on it so far because 2:37:56.200 --> 2:38:00.920 getting into the full detail is just it is a 2:38:01.160 --> 2:38:05.200 lengthy project, and I keep getting distracted by by the 2:38:07.000 --> 2:38:11.280 conversion therapy stuff. There's so much stuff to research, and 2:38:11.320 --> 2:38:15.400 there's more like two people and and yeah, anyway, so 2:38:15.600 --> 2:38:22.600 ever else in terms of finding that like the original 2:38:22.959 --> 2:38:26.920 kind of like broader views of tn ON both like 2:38:27.280 --> 2:38:29.640 what it is in terms of like the one oh 2:38:29.720 --> 2:38:33.520 one kind of stuff, and also like the timeline of 2:38:33.560 --> 2:38:36.000 where it came from. You can find it on Health 2:38:36.120 --> 2:38:39.720 Liberation Now dot com. We have a little tap there 2:38:39.879 --> 2:38:42.400 that has like analysis, and then if you go down 2:38:42.440 --> 2:38:46.080 to key issues, you can find a tn on tag there, right, 2:38:46.120 --> 2:38:49.440 and it'll have that stuff in there. This has been 2:38:49.440 --> 2:38:53.000 a thing that throughout this entire series, which is that 2:38:53.600 --> 2:38:56.080 most of the information on this stuff has been compiled 2:38:56.120 --> 2:38:58.240 by a very small number of trans people, and that 2:38:58.640 --> 2:39:02.160 cannot stay the state of this because there are just 2:39:02.440 --> 2:39:07.280 not enough trans people and they are extremely overworked. Yeah, 2:39:07.600 --> 2:39:09.800 and if that's a project that you can take up, 2:39:09.879 --> 2:39:14.360 please do that. Um, yes please, yes, hands on deck, 2:39:14.440 --> 2:39:18.480 I'll hands on back. Yeah, because the seriousness of this 2:39:18.760 --> 2:39:20.800 is such that if you want there to be trans 2:39:20.920 --> 2:39:25.959 people living in a way that does not actively destroy them, 2:39:26.959 --> 2:39:31.039 you have to act now. Yeah. Basically, yeah, this has 2:39:31.080 --> 2:39:33.640 been it could happen here a product of cool zone media. 2:39:34.320 --> 2:39:52.120 Suppress your local turfs before it's too late. Goodbye. You 2:39:52.200 --> 2:39:56.640 know what I love is decadent Western sexual mores. Well, 2:39:56.720 --> 2:39:58.560 that actually does tie you into what we're talking about, 2:39:59.040 --> 2:40:03.160 end of what you were re did Jesus there? God? 2:40:05.720 --> 2:40:08.200 When I when I logged into this call an hour late, 2:40:08.280 --> 2:40:13.120 Garrison was studiously reading reading a book by with the 2:40:13.240 --> 2:40:16.440 screen centered on the cover. We gotta bleep this out 2:40:16.520 --> 2:40:18.520 and have have it be the new thing that's bleeped out. 2:40:18.879 --> 2:40:24.160 I agree with that. Actually, yes, good call. That way, 2:40:24.200 --> 2:40:26.560 we can just do a whole series of jokes where 2:40:26.600 --> 2:40:33.440 we just like pill people on fascist esotericism. What a 2:40:33.680 --> 2:40:39.120 what a fun joke that would be happen here? Show 2:40:39.280 --> 2:40:43.640 we talk about things that could happen of but just 2:40:43.680 --> 2:40:47.880 talking about the onslaught of bills that have been introduced 2:40:47.920 --> 2:40:50.400 the past few months that attacking kind of trends rights 2:40:50.440 --> 2:40:54.680 and queer people in general. Yeah, so we've we've we 2:40:54.800 --> 2:40:58.200 we've heard about gay marriage, We've heard about turfs a 2:40:58.320 --> 2:41:01.840 lot the past the past two episodes, and now we're 2:41:02.120 --> 2:41:05.440 going to be kind of focusing on the Yeah, like 2:41:05.520 --> 2:41:08.640 I said, the kind of current legislation that's happened specifically 2:41:08.720 --> 2:41:11.880 within the past six months, UM that I've been targeting 2:41:12.240 --> 2:41:16.200 kind of LGBTQ people in in schools particularly that and 2:41:16.520 --> 2:41:21.120 a lot of it's been targeted towards towards miners, teen teens, adolescents, 2:41:21.720 --> 2:41:25.400 UM and restricting the visibility and uh and kind of 2:41:25.879 --> 2:41:28.680 what's allowed to be said and mentioned in schools. So 2:41:29.760 --> 2:41:32.520 we're gonna kind of actually talk about um books first, 2:41:32.760 --> 2:41:34.480 because a lot of this stuff is kind of tied 2:41:34.520 --> 2:41:40.840 into the critical race theory UM kind of like organizing 2:41:41.000 --> 2:41:47.440 that the right was doing. So Yeah. The American Library 2:41:47.440 --> 2:41:53.400 Association says that between September and December alone, they received 2:41:53.840 --> 2:41:57.760 more than three thirty reports of book challenges, for which 2:41:57.840 --> 2:42:00.040 is the most over two decades in terms of of 2:42:00.440 --> 2:42:02.880 people trying to restrict what books are allowed to be 2:42:02.959 --> 2:42:08.360 in schools. I experienced a book challenge lately. Tell you what, 2:42:09.000 --> 2:42:12.480 trying to read through the new James Patterson book. What 2:42:13.160 --> 2:42:15.240 do either of you know who James Patterson is? No? 2:42:16.160 --> 2:42:18.520 Was this was? This was a bad idea on my back, 2:42:18.640 --> 2:42:21.680 Please continue, Garrison, I was. I was busy reading the 2:42:22.600 --> 2:42:25.199 before you logged on. I have a different interest in books, 2:42:26.080 --> 2:42:30.560 you know, actually very similar books, very similar, and the 2:42:30.640 --> 2:42:34.440 Pelican brief basically identical. I have no idea how much 2:42:34.480 --> 2:42:36.760 that's gonna get bleeped, but it's gonna be funny. Um 2:42:37.640 --> 2:42:43.119 so yeah. A Tennessee school's removal of Mars the Holocaust 2:42:43.280 --> 2:42:46.680 Graphic Biography became kind of the most famous example of 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:49.600 this trend a few months ago. Um, the book was 2:42:49.600 --> 2:42:52.920 allegedly banned due to due to nudity and because of 2:42:53.000 --> 2:42:56.400 curse words. But this is kind of you know it was. 2:42:56.720 --> 2:43:00.520 They claimed it had nothing to do with actual political content. Um, 2:43:00.640 --> 2:43:04.320 it was just because of the the inappropriate images to children, 2:43:04.840 --> 2:43:07.680 which is a little a little dubious since it's all, 2:43:07.760 --> 2:43:13.359 you know, starring mice. Um yeah, yeah. But the majority 2:43:13.400 --> 2:43:16.600 of challenged books have been kind of those focused on 2:43:16.879 --> 2:43:21.600 lgbt Q characters or themes. Back in November, nearly two 2:43:21.680 --> 2:43:24.680 dozen people a day. We're dying from COVID nineteen in 2:43:24.920 --> 2:43:28.080 South Carolina. Thank god that god better. Thank god we 2:43:28.240 --> 2:43:32.039 knocked that ship out. But rather than try to handle 2:43:32.120 --> 2:43:37.279 the public health crisis, Governor Henry McMaster seemed more interested 2:43:37.360 --> 2:43:40.280 in pressuring the state's Department of Education to crack down 2:43:40.360 --> 2:43:43.080 on queer theme to books. He directed the Department of 2:43:43.200 --> 2:43:46.199 Education and the State Board of Education to create quote 2:43:46.480 --> 2:43:50.440 statewide standards and directives to prevent pornography and other obscene 2:43:50.600 --> 2:43:54.760 content from entering our state's public schools and libraries of 2:43:54.879 --> 2:43:57.600 the governor said in a letter to the Superintendent of Education. 2:43:58.040 --> 2:44:01.640 Inside the letter, it was specifically targeted towards uh Maya 2:44:01.760 --> 2:44:05.960 Kobe's book Gender Queer, a Memoir UM, which is a 2:44:06.400 --> 2:44:09.320 gender queer graphic novel kind of detailing what it's what 2:44:09.480 --> 2:44:12.600 it's like to be gender queer. It's definitely popular among 2:44:12.760 --> 2:44:15.200 kind of the adult like a young adult kind of 2:44:15.280 --> 2:44:17.560 age range and and as and as a good resource 2:44:17.640 --> 2:44:20.640 for kind of gender bending type stuff UM and it 2:44:20.720 --> 2:44:23.640 has faced a large amount of a large amount of 2:44:23.720 --> 2:44:27.200 the onslaught and like the bashing of queer books have 2:44:27.320 --> 2:44:32.480 been focused on this specific book. It's an autobiographical book 2:44:33.240 --> 2:44:36.000 based on the Bay Area non binary writer and the 2:44:36.040 --> 2:44:40.360 illustrator UM. It's been challenged and it started being challenged 2:44:40.400 --> 2:44:43.000 at one of South Carolina's nearly five hundred schools and 2:44:43.080 --> 2:44:44.920 then got banned from all of them just because people 2:44:44.959 --> 2:44:47.680 were mad at about it. At one school, it was 2:44:47.720 --> 2:44:50.400 being recommended for those in the tenth grade or higher 2:44:50.480 --> 2:44:53.520 to learn about kind of queer issues UM and it 2:44:53.760 --> 2:44:56.720 is now become one of the most banned books of 2:44:57.080 --> 2:45:00.360 this past year. It's been removed from schools and for Ginia, 2:45:00.680 --> 2:45:05.240 New Jersey, Florida, North and South Carolina, Texas, and a 2:45:05.360 --> 2:45:09.160 large amount of other states in the South. UM speaking. 2:45:09.240 --> 2:45:12.320 Speaking of Texas, the Agenda Queer Graphic novel was just 2:45:12.640 --> 2:45:16.000 one part of a massive kind of horrifying purge led 2:45:16.080 --> 2:45:21.400 by Texas Republican state Representative Matt cross Uh. He he 2:45:21.760 --> 2:45:24.360 led an effort to pressure and force schools and libraries 2:45:24.600 --> 2:45:28.360 to remove books based on a list of undesirable reads 2:45:28.480 --> 2:45:32.120 that he compiled himself. UM. The list is a sixteen 2:45:32.200 --> 2:45:36.000 page spreadsheet with over eight hundred and fifty books cataloged 2:45:36.840 --> 2:45:40.760 on Crouse's eight hundred and fifty strong list of titles 2:45:40.959 --> 2:45:45.000 that he wants spanned from Texas libraries, of them concerned 2:45:45.120 --> 2:45:48.040 lgbt Q issues. Um, it's kind of clear that what 2:45:48.200 --> 2:45:51.720 he did, Yeah, well what what what? What? What he 2:45:51.760 --> 2:45:54.520 did to make this list is just like googling the 2:45:54.640 --> 2:45:58.240 words like queer and lgbt Q and gay and trans 2:45:58.720 --> 2:46:01.240 like with book and found a list of books that 2:46:01.400 --> 2:46:04.280 have it like mentioned to somewhere. So like a lot 2:46:04.320 --> 2:46:06.879 of so many books are just like completely a banned 2:46:06.879 --> 2:46:10.000 that aren't even really like yeah, like the list is 2:46:10.080 --> 2:46:12.600 nearly one thousand books, like log So like he was 2:46:12.680 --> 2:46:14.960 just like google searching to like add as many books 2:46:14.959 --> 2:46:17.040 to lists as that he could. It's not actually about 2:46:17.080 --> 2:46:20.600 the content beyond the fact that the content acknowledge the 2:46:20.640 --> 2:46:24.160 existence of queer people. Like yeah, that's to the extent 2:46:24.240 --> 2:46:26.680 that he knows about the content. That's it, Like, you 2:46:26.800 --> 2:46:29.400 can't be reading all these books, no, because like one 2:46:29.440 --> 2:46:31.160 of the more interesting trends that you can find on 2:46:31.240 --> 2:46:35.160 this list is that it challenges and tries to ban 2:46:35.360 --> 2:46:39.240 books that teach students like their legal rights, um, like 2:46:39.400 --> 2:46:42.440 not even counting books about like reproductive rights or writes 2:46:42.480 --> 2:46:44.960 his like l g bt Q people. It also it 2:46:45.040 --> 2:46:47.560 includes in this list like titles like the Legal Atlas 2:46:47.640 --> 2:46:54.440 of the United States, UM Team Legal Rights, Uh, I right, yeah, 2:46:54.840 --> 2:46:58.600 equal Rights, we the Students, Supreme Court cases for and 2:46:58.680 --> 2:47:02.760 about students of Yeah. I mean this is my My 2:47:02.920 --> 2:47:07.920 support for LGBTQ people is worring here with my belief 2:47:08.000 --> 2:47:11.119 that children should not know their rights because they're they're 2:47:11.200 --> 2:47:13.200 they're they're they're getting too upty as it is, we 2:47:13.280 --> 2:47:15.320 gotta we gotta crack Look, could we crack down on 2:47:15.440 --> 2:47:17.760 kids in a way that isn't bigoted, That's all I'm 2:47:17.800 --> 2:47:24.720 asking for. Nope, nope, absolutely no, we gotta slow them down. No, no, kids, 2:47:24.959 --> 2:47:27.200 you must know your rights. And the very important thing 2:47:27.280 --> 2:47:28.760 here is that if you keep WE in your locker, 2:47:28.800 --> 2:47:30.800 the school can just search it. So don't put in 2:47:30.920 --> 2:47:33.119 your locker. If you put it in your car, they 2:47:33.320 --> 2:47:36.640 it's it's way harder for them to search its in 2:47:36.720 --> 2:47:42.040 the Principles car store guns. They're wait, okay, sorry, let's um. Yeah, 2:47:42.040 --> 2:47:43.320 I'm not sure if you can find that in the 2:47:43.400 --> 2:47:46.039 Legal Acts Less of the United States. But to be fair, 2:47:46.200 --> 2:47:48.880 Texas kids can't read that book either, now, so who 2:47:48.959 --> 2:47:53.080 knows who knows what it sets. Yeah, so to Virginia, 2:47:53.120 --> 2:47:56.080 school board numbers kind of called for a sexual books 2:47:56.120 --> 2:47:58.840 quote unquote sexual books to be burned at a meeting 2:47:58.920 --> 2:48:01.280 last year. UM. And a lot of these, like a 2:48:01.360 --> 2:48:03.720 lot of the rhetoric around like book book burnings and 2:48:03.800 --> 2:48:07.240 book bannings was specifically tied to the kind of the 2:48:07.360 --> 2:48:11.240 effort to harass and gain support in school boards. And 2:48:11.320 --> 2:48:13.000 we saw us last year with like proud boys and 2:48:13.080 --> 2:48:16.280 extremists and it's like other like random people who got 2:48:16.360 --> 2:48:20.200 their brains kind of warped by propaganda kind of leading 2:48:20.360 --> 2:48:23.720 these like incendiary charges against against the school board members. 2:48:23.920 --> 2:48:26.320 Some you know, the school board members got fired, like 2:48:26.560 --> 2:48:30.360 threatened with arrest just for allowing books that mentioned the 2:48:30.400 --> 2:48:33.520 existence of being queer. It was, it was, it was 2:48:33.640 --> 2:48:36.520 quite quite a problem that is now influencing this current 2:48:36.600 --> 2:48:40.600 legislative cycle. UM. In almost every case quote unquote, like 2:48:40.760 --> 2:48:44.760 concerned parents have swarmed school board meetings and flooded kind 2:48:44.760 --> 2:48:50.640 of mailboxes with outrage over what they call pornography um 2:48:50.840 --> 2:48:55.200 being distributed to their children. You know, people will will 2:48:55.360 --> 2:48:59.040 plaster signs with you know, scenes from the gender queer 2:48:59.200 --> 2:49:03.920 graphic novel that is like what they they they deem 2:49:03.959 --> 2:49:07.760 as being like poor not like pornographic um when it 2:49:07.840 --> 2:49:11.720 just depicts like how how like adults and young adults 2:49:11.760 --> 2:49:13.680 behave accurately, just like you can find in any like 2:49:13.840 --> 2:49:16.280 fucking like Batman comic. Like it's not like it's it's 2:49:16.320 --> 2:49:19.400 like it's like not it's it's it's it's both in 2:49:19.520 --> 2:49:22.080 line with other comic books and also like it's obviously 2:49:22.240 --> 2:49:26.160 dealing with like issues around being queer as like that's 2:49:26.160 --> 2:49:29.680 the whole point of it. So but yeah, just blasting this, 2:49:29.879 --> 2:49:34.160 blasting like queerness as innately pornographic is you know, a big, 2:49:34.280 --> 2:49:38.560 a big part of this type of propaganda push. It's it's, uh, 2:49:39.360 --> 2:49:41.440 it's pretty upsetting because I mean a lot of these 2:49:41.480 --> 2:49:44.840 adults and like quote unquote parents, you know, who knows 2:49:44.840 --> 2:49:47.520 if they're actually parents. You know, it even goes and 2:49:47.600 --> 2:49:50.520 stuff to being like you know, they're accusing librarians and 2:49:50.600 --> 2:49:53.320 teachers of being pedophiles for having this, for the having 2:49:53.360 --> 2:49:58.320 these type of materials. In Wyoming, prosecutors considered charging library 2:49:58.400 --> 2:50:03.119 staff with stalking books of sexuality, um, including like literary 2:50:03.160 --> 2:50:05.960 classics under like the sex said banner like sex is 2:50:06.000 --> 2:50:08.720 a funny word, and this book is gay, um, but 2:50:09.200 --> 2:50:12.960 I considered charging library staff, like with cribs, for for 2:50:13.080 --> 2:50:16.120 stalking these books, which are like very typical sex said books. 2:50:16.560 --> 2:50:19.160 It's it's incredible because when I was in a Texas 2:50:19.240 --> 2:50:21.760 public school, I read all of the Wheel of Time 2:50:21.800 --> 2:50:24.320 books from my school library, and those are horny in 2:50:24.360 --> 2:50:27.160 a much much more unhealthy way than any of the 2:50:27.200 --> 2:50:30.840 books that you're talking about could possibly be described as well. 2:50:31.400 --> 2:50:33.280 You get that, you get this fun thing where it's 2:50:33.280 --> 2:50:35.760 like they're basically running the clock back on the turf 2:50:35.920 --> 2:50:37.440 arc like if you if you remember we're talking about 2:50:37.520 --> 2:50:40.800 Church in Mexico. It was okay, so the ark that 2:50:40.879 --> 2:50:42.920 they did was they were anti porn people, but then 2:50:42.959 --> 2:50:46.280 they lost the anti porn wars, so they became anti 2:50:46.320 --> 2:50:49.720 trafficking people. And then when sort of turfasing came back, 2:50:50.000 --> 2:50:52.720 they went from anti trafficking back to being turfs. And 2:50:52.800 --> 2:50:55.240 it's like this, this is literally they're they're doing this 2:50:55.280 --> 2:50:57.200 whole thing in reverse right there. Their starting position is 2:50:57.240 --> 2:50:59.240 that their anti trands and they're just going back to 2:50:59.400 --> 2:51:02.040 like the anti porn stuff, but like bringing in and 2:51:02.160 --> 2:51:04.160 sort of like bringing in an anti trafficking angle. And 2:51:04.240 --> 2:51:08.760 it's it's great. It's extremely fun. Yeah, this is I 2:51:08.760 --> 2:51:10.840 would describe this is fun. This is what I consider 2:51:10.879 --> 2:51:15.400 a fun time. Yeah, well I know what you consider 2:51:15.480 --> 2:51:21.560 a fun time. Here. You do notice my my carefully place, 2:51:21.879 --> 2:51:27.200 carefully placed books on on my Yes, I'm extremely aware 2:51:27.240 --> 2:51:31.200 of that. Garrison Harrison is reading books that will get 2:51:31.240 --> 2:51:35.000 them canceled by like five specific people if we talk 2:51:35.040 --> 2:51:37.800 about them too much on this show. That is always 2:51:37.840 --> 2:51:39.840 the fear of that's always the fear of Twitter. It's 2:51:39.840 --> 2:51:42.720 being canceled by five people. My favorite thing about doing 2:51:42.800 --> 2:51:45.720 a podcast for an audience of millions, Garrison is telling 2:51:45.760 --> 2:51:48.480 a joke that is that is precisely for you and 2:51:48.640 --> 2:51:55.039 me and making that like several minutes of content. Sorry. Um, 2:51:55.400 --> 2:51:58.160 And Oklahoma bill was introduced to the state Senate that 2:51:58.200 --> 2:52:02.760 would prohibit school libraries from keeping books that focused on 2:52:02.840 --> 2:52:06.039 sexual activity, sexual identity, or a gender identity. Um, you're 2:52:06.040 --> 2:52:08.560 gonna gonna use the gender identity a lot. That kind 2:52:08.560 --> 2:52:11.800 of just refers to anything that even I mean, like 2:52:11.920 --> 2:52:14.959 it refers to even mentions of being cis gender, right, 2:52:15.000 --> 2:52:16.960 because if you bring up the concept of cis gender, 2:52:17.440 --> 2:52:20.360 that infers that there is an alternative to that. So 2:52:20.800 --> 2:52:22.959 so like even any if anything even mentions being sis, 2:52:23.080 --> 2:52:24.720 it means that there must be something other, so that 2:52:24.800 --> 2:52:27.520 already falls into the gender identity kind of framework. So 2:52:27.680 --> 2:52:31.080 it's just like anything that suggests that you are that you, 2:52:31.280 --> 2:52:33.600 that there's like gender identity is not something you are 2:52:33.600 --> 2:52:37.720 innately born with and are forever, is is gonna be, 2:52:37.840 --> 2:52:41.880 it's gonna be is banned and is seen as pornographic 2:52:41.959 --> 2:52:45.520 what I'm seeing or is like grooming children or whatever 2:52:45.600 --> 2:52:48.520 kind of words that they use. Um and like, all 2:52:48.600 --> 2:52:52.480 of this rhetoric is much worse for lgbtwo Q authors 2:52:52.560 --> 2:52:55.840 who are black or people of color. There's books like 2:52:56.360 --> 2:53:00.360 All Boys Aren't Blue by writer George M. Johnson, whose 2:53:00.560 --> 2:53:03.640 whose book led one white school board member to call 2:53:03.680 --> 2:53:07.520 the police on her own district's librarian for keeping it 2:53:07.800 --> 2:53:12.520 in stock. It's uh the the the Central York School 2:53:12.560 --> 2:53:16.560 District in Pennsylvania, and an extensive list of books last 2:53:16.640 --> 2:53:19.280 year that was almost entirely written by the authomes of color. 2:53:20.240 --> 2:53:22.560 This is all the stuff has been happening like concurrently 2:53:22.640 --> 2:53:26.320 with the anti critical race theory, like organizing in protests, 2:53:26.360 --> 2:53:29.920 which again obviously isn't about actual critical race theory, just 2:53:30.080 --> 2:53:34.040 about the suggestion that maybe racism is something that is 2:53:34.160 --> 2:53:36.640 not just an individual problem, but it's maybe kind of 2:53:36.800 --> 2:53:40.760 built into our entire culture and system of governance, UM 2:53:40.800 --> 2:53:44.119 and education. So it's it's not actual critical race theory. 2:53:44.200 --> 2:53:45.920 It's that. But I think everyone listening to this kind 2:53:45.959 --> 2:53:49.520 of already are already knows that Texas Governor Greg Abbott, 2:53:49.720 --> 2:53:51.560 which is gonna be just who's gonna be a recurring 2:53:51.640 --> 2:53:55.720 character on this episode UM, kind of has taken this 2:53:55.879 --> 2:53:59.280 whole you know, calling the police on librarians thing, uh 2:53:59.520 --> 2:54:02.560 much for a kind of demanding that the state's education 2:54:02.640 --> 2:54:07.039 agency quote investigate any criminal activity in our public schools 2:54:07.120 --> 2:54:11.720 involving the availability of pornography, a move that kind of 2:54:11.800 --> 2:54:14.440 librarians in the state fear could make them targets of 2:54:14.480 --> 2:54:17.720 criminal complaints. For again, the stalking books about sex said, 2:54:17.879 --> 2:54:20.400 or you know, stalking books that not even not not 2:54:20.480 --> 2:54:22.080 not even not even not even but like sex head, 2:54:22.120 --> 2:54:25.160 just just like books that mentioned an alternative to the 2:54:25.240 --> 2:54:28.520 heteronormative like you are the gender that you are signed 2:54:28.520 --> 2:54:31.400 at birth, like idea, like anything other than that is 2:54:31.480 --> 2:54:34.680 now could get them in trouble. So anything that doesn't 2:54:34.720 --> 2:54:37.680 kind of fall under the Christian supremacist like worldview of 2:54:37.760 --> 2:54:42.240 sexuality and gender. It's it's not great. There's a it's 2:54:42.680 --> 2:54:45.959 so yeah, all boys aren't blue. The book, written by 2:54:46.160 --> 2:54:50.120 by George M. Johnson, has been similar to the gender 2:54:50.200 --> 2:54:52.400 queer graphic novel, is one of the most banned books 2:54:52.440 --> 2:54:55.000 of last year, targeted for removal in at least a 2:54:55.080 --> 2:54:58.560 fifteen states. Um, it's a lot of the organizing of 2:54:58.600 --> 2:55:01.640 these efforts kind of start online. There's like Telegram channels, 2:55:01.680 --> 2:55:04.280 Facebook groups, and then they carry over into like school 2:55:04.320 --> 2:55:07.600 board protests, and then eventually, like you know, maybe some 2:55:07.680 --> 2:55:09.880 school board members will will will catch onto this and 2:55:09.920 --> 2:55:12.520 start advocating for it. Then you know, the state governor, 2:55:12.640 --> 2:55:15.280 does you know it's city city councilman, Like all of 2:55:15.320 --> 2:55:17.640 this thing is is is his whole cycle of organizing 2:55:17.959 --> 2:55:21.959 that's really picked up alongside the anti CRT stuff many 2:55:22.240 --> 2:55:25.840 many parents have seen, like Google docs or spreadsheets like 2:55:26.000 --> 2:55:28.720 the sixteen page one made by Matt Krausse of of 2:55:28.840 --> 2:55:32.760 contentious titles posted on Facebook by local chapters of organizations 2:55:32.920 --> 2:55:36.840 such as Mom's for Liberty. So people will make these 2:55:37.000 --> 2:55:39.720 giant giant spend streets talking about books that they don't like, 2:55:40.080 --> 2:55:42.440 and then they'll get shared around on Facebook groups. Telegram 2:55:42.560 --> 2:55:47.200 channels from their librarians. Uh say that parents will ask 2:55:47.280 --> 2:55:51.360 their schools if these books are available inside libraries, and 2:55:51.480 --> 2:55:54.760 then we'll start rallying and organizing to get them banned 2:55:54.840 --> 2:55:59.680 from being available in any kind of public, public government setting, 2:55:59.680 --> 2:56:03.920 whether the school libraries, whether it be like public libraries, 2:56:03.959 --> 2:56:09.199 whether that be like online access, all this type of stuff. So, yeah, 2:56:09.640 --> 2:56:14.560 it's a it's I don't know, it's Organizing against these 2:56:14.560 --> 2:56:17.800 types of things is never the easiest thing, um, because 2:56:17.840 --> 2:56:20.800 a lot of times they these people get really get 2:56:20.879 --> 2:56:25.440 really dedicated onto this because it is such a it's 2:56:25.480 --> 2:56:27.160 it's it's the whole save the children. The kind of 2:56:27.240 --> 2:56:30.280 idea which gave Q and On such strength, and q 2:56:30.480 --> 2:56:32.240 and On is kind of taking a dip down. This 2:56:32.320 --> 2:56:34.640 stuff is taking a rise up. It's kind of it's 2:56:34.680 --> 2:56:38.920 passing over the same type of organizing principles online. As 2:56:39.040 --> 2:56:42.240 as mentioned before, the governor of South Carolina asked the 2:56:42.280 --> 2:56:45.800 state's Superintendent of Education, but also it's Law enforcement division 2:56:46.040 --> 2:56:49.320 to investigate the presence of quote, obscene and pornographic materials 2:56:49.400 --> 2:56:52.520 from its public schools, um you know, citing the Gender 2:56:52.560 --> 2:56:55.720 and Queer graphic novel as an example that you've seen 2:56:56.760 --> 2:56:59.800 You've seen mayors in difference in different cities withhold funding 2:56:59.840 --> 2:57:02.960 for county libraries saying that he will not release money 2:57:03.320 --> 2:57:07.120 to these candy library systems until books with lgbt Q 2:57:07.360 --> 2:57:11.760 themes are removed. It's it's pretty grim, uh, And so 2:57:11.920 --> 2:57:15.520 far efforts to bring criminal charges against librarians and educators 2:57:15.920 --> 2:57:20.480 have largely faltered, as as law enforcement officials in like 2:57:20.640 --> 2:57:23.560 Florida and Wyoming and other sites for this type of 2:57:23.600 --> 2:57:26.560 thing that's been attempted have you know, found really no 2:57:26.760 --> 2:57:30.480 basis for criminal investigations. But still it's like the same 2:57:30.520 --> 2:57:34.080 thing for like, even even if this process gets started, 2:57:34.160 --> 2:57:36.840 it's about building like fear that it could happen to you. 2:57:37.160 --> 2:57:40.160 It's about you know, this fear that someone's always watching 2:57:40.240 --> 2:57:43.119 and someone's always wanting to report you. Um, and it's 2:57:43.160 --> 2:57:45.800 the thing that they happened with Texas and abortion. It's 2:57:45.840 --> 2:57:48.640 like trying to have like the bounty hunter idea of 2:57:48.760 --> 2:57:51.440 be like parents are trying to find examples of this 2:57:51.560 --> 2:57:54.080 to report it. So then so it's like this like 2:57:54.200 --> 2:57:58.240 proactive kind of surveillance of anything that doesn't fall into 2:57:58.280 --> 2:58:03.800 the Christian supremacist idea of gender sexuality. It's you know, now, 2:58:04.000 --> 2:58:06.480 of course that's like a specific interpretation of Christianity. I'm 2:58:06.480 --> 2:58:08.960 not not saying all Christianities like that, but it is 2:58:09.560 --> 2:58:12.120 the one of them in the South. It's it is 2:58:12.240 --> 2:58:15.040 like one of the bigger strains of that type of 2:58:15.200 --> 2:58:18.279 of that type of kind of religious and politics synthesis. 2:58:20.520 --> 2:58:24.199 Let's let's see. So courts have generally taken the position 2:58:24.320 --> 2:58:27.760 that libraries should not remove these books from circulation um 2:58:28.080 --> 2:58:31.360 but sometimes due to pressure via like loss of funding 2:58:31.800 --> 2:58:33.760 or depending on how like the how much how much 2:58:33.879 --> 2:58:37.040 like who's in charge of each state's kind of education system, 2:58:37.320 --> 2:58:38.360 a lot of a lot of a lot of these 2:58:38.400 --> 2:58:40.600 books have been banned and have have been pulled from 2:58:40.720 --> 2:58:44.120 many school libraries and many public libraries. Even if it 2:58:44.200 --> 2:58:46.840 doesn't like go all the way to being like, you know, 2:58:47.040 --> 2:58:50.240 court mandated all of it, sometimes it doesn't need doesn't 2:58:50.240 --> 2:58:54.600 even need to get that far. So yeah, because like 2:58:54.879 --> 2:58:57.480 even if it doesn't get to the court, librarians kind 2:58:57.520 --> 2:59:00.240 of librarians have said that just the threat of having 2:59:00.280 --> 2:59:03.200 to defend against charges and having to defend against like 2:59:03.240 --> 2:59:05.440 accusations of pedophilia and grooming and all this kind of 2:59:05.480 --> 2:59:08.720 nonsense is enough to get many educators to censor themselves 2:59:08.840 --> 2:59:10.560 by just not talking these books to begin with, to 2:59:10.680 --> 2:59:13.920 avoid that whole kind of debacle, because even just the 2:59:14.000 --> 2:59:16.960 public spectacle of an accusation can be enough to like 2:59:17.160 --> 2:59:19.880 ruin someone's life inside like a small like in like 2:59:19.920 --> 2:59:22.320 a small community. Right, it's it's it's is if you 2:59:22.400 --> 2:59:24.080 know parents, if you know kids, and this is like 2:59:24.120 --> 2:59:25.959 part of your social group, it's part of like wherever 2:59:26.040 --> 2:59:29.560 you're like situated in your community. If this type of 2:59:29.600 --> 2:59:31.720 thing starts up, it can really be devastating to someone's 2:59:31.720 --> 2:59:35.720 personal life. And of obviously this is very ironic because 2:59:35.760 --> 2:59:38.120 all these same people who are trying to get get 2:59:38.160 --> 2:59:40.800 these books banned also crying and scream about like censorship 2:59:41.120 --> 2:59:44.560 and cancel culture um, while literally advocating the burning of 2:59:44.600 --> 2:59:47.680 comic books um, and even like fucking like advocating the 2:59:47.720 --> 2:59:51.480 burning of no Your Rights books. So it's it's like, yes, 2:59:51.600 --> 2:59:54.880 they will cry and scream about canceler culture um, but 2:59:55.000 --> 2:59:56.720 they will do all of this stuff as well. It's not, 2:59:56.879 --> 3:00:00.760 it's not there is no ideological consistency. They're they're they're 3:00:00.800 --> 3:00:02.680 they're not they're not trying to that's not that's that's 3:00:02.720 --> 3:00:06.160 not part of the point. It's because it's not even 3:00:06.240 --> 3:00:08.840 hypocrisy in their own eyes, because all of this is 3:00:08.879 --> 3:00:10.880 for the great or good. It's it's about protecting the 3:00:11.040 --> 3:00:13.960 innocence of children. Right. If you'll notice that a lot 3:00:13.959 --> 3:00:16.760 of these bills and efforts try to not explicitly attack 3:00:16.879 --> 3:00:19.760 books for being gay or queer. Instead, they will label 3:00:19.840 --> 3:00:24.080 them as pornographic or obscene. Um. Obviously, many books that 3:00:24.120 --> 3:00:27.959 conservatives will defend have just as graphic depictions of intimacy 3:00:28.240 --> 3:00:33.600 or autonic like or um or anatomy um, but usually 3:00:34.040 --> 3:00:37.440 heterosexual in nature, and alongside other kind of values that 3:00:37.480 --> 3:00:39.760 the right wants to push um. You know, even like 3:00:39.840 --> 3:00:42.720 the fucking Bible is more graphic than the gender queer 3:00:42.720 --> 3:00:47.360 and graphic novel um. But when conservatives say pornography, what 3:00:47.480 --> 3:00:50.200 they just mean is that is any display of queerness, right, 3:00:50.600 --> 3:00:54.720 anything outside the mold of the fundamentalist, Christian supremacist worldview 3:00:55.040 --> 3:00:58.360 that they're fighting for. Just like when they say banned 3:00:58.400 --> 3:01:00.680 critical race theory, they don't they don't actually mean that. 3:01:00.800 --> 3:01:03.800 What they mean is ban any discussion on racism that 3:01:04.200 --> 3:01:07.680 kind of disrupts white comfort. It's it's it's it's they 3:01:08.200 --> 3:01:10.800 they have their own framework to view this and they 3:01:10.840 --> 3:01:14.400 can justify it within their own framework, so you know, 3:01:14.560 --> 3:01:16.720 it's it should not surprise anyone that many of these 3:01:16.800 --> 3:01:21.160 queer book bannings are being organized alongside bands on books 3:01:21.200 --> 3:01:25.400 focusing on race and racism. Um Matt Cross's sixteen page 3:01:25.520 --> 3:01:30.240 spreadsheet was was was made to accompany House Bill three 3:01:30.360 --> 3:01:33.800 nine seven nine, the so called anti CRT bill, that 3:01:33.920 --> 3:01:37.280 band's teaching of any materials that could mean quote an 3:01:37.320 --> 3:01:41.279 individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other psychological 3:01:41.320 --> 3:01:44.880 distress on account of the individual's race or sex. So 3:01:45.280 --> 3:01:48.400 just banning teaching of things that could make a theoretical 3:01:48.520 --> 3:01:52.640 person kind of uncomfortable, which is it seems like a 3:01:53.800 --> 3:01:58.560 great way to view education. Uh yeah, let's just skip 3:01:58.640 --> 3:02:00.880 over the parts that are uncomfortable and that I'll make 3:02:00.920 --> 3:02:06.000 a great society. Wow. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm 3:02:06.000 --> 3:02:10.760 gonna quote from a great article by Samantha Rydell in 3:02:10.879 --> 3:02:15.680 them dot Com quote small. Wonder then that much of 3:02:15.760 --> 3:02:18.000 the current of fervor can be traced back to the 3:02:18.080 --> 3:02:22.280 conservative group No Left Turn founded in to ban books 3:02:22.280 --> 3:02:28.920 about racial inequality from classrooms by Elena Fish being an 3:02:29.000 --> 3:02:32.520 Alna Fish being believes that Antifa children quote quote quote 3:02:32.520 --> 3:02:35.960 Antiva children are going to assault her kids for being white. UM. 3:02:36.160 --> 3:02:39.360 The organization No Left Turn rocketed to prominence in the 3:02:39.480 --> 3:02:42.879 anti education right wing after fish Being was interviewed by 3:02:42.920 --> 3:02:46.640 Tucker Carlson on Fox News. UM a tie, which similarly 3:02:46.720 --> 3:02:50.160 lifted like minded boats such as Moms for Liberty. No 3:02:50.360 --> 3:02:54.040 Left Turns website directs parents to a laundry list of 3:02:54.080 --> 3:02:57.080 books that they claim are used to quote indoctrinate kids 3:02:57.160 --> 3:03:00.880 into a dangerous ideology, including a rope best section on 3:03:01.200 --> 3:03:05.840 quote comprehensive sexual education. UM here that pornography lie is 3:03:05.920 --> 3:03:08.920 laid bare with over forty books whose only kind of 3:03:09.080 --> 3:03:11.440 through line is that they deal with lgbt Q themes. 3:03:12.080 --> 3:03:16.000 The picture book I Am Jazz, Uh, Kate Bornstein's My 3:03:16.160 --> 3:03:19.440 Gender Workbook, and the y a novel Two Boys Kissing 3:03:20.040 --> 3:03:22.960 also included, as Margaret Atwood's The Hand the Handmaiden's Tale. 3:03:23.520 --> 3:03:26.880 UM No Left Turn and discriminately targets all these titles 3:03:27.000 --> 3:03:30.720 because they simply feature queer people having lives or, in 3:03:30.800 --> 3:03:34.520 the case of like Margaret Atwood, having their lives be ended. So, 3:03:34.800 --> 3:03:37.880 after all, ideas ideas like that might influence kids to 3:03:37.959 --> 3:03:40.920 think that they could be different right any and for 3:03:41.000 --> 3:03:43.800 conservative parents, there's no greater horror than the thought of 3:03:43.879 --> 3:03:46.760 not being able to control their children or the idea 3:03:46.840 --> 3:03:49.640 that their kids might not be straight. It should come 3:03:49.680 --> 3:03:53.480 as no surprise that the grassroots campaigns quote unquote grassroots 3:03:53.560 --> 3:03:56.680 campaigns like No Left Turn are in reality links to 3:03:56.800 --> 3:04:00.800 influential conservative donors and packs like the catag Institute and 3:04:00.920 --> 3:04:07.039 the former Federative Society. Pardon, yes, like the Cato it's 3:04:07.120 --> 3:04:09.520 named after Kato Kalin, the guy who lived behind o 3:04:09.680 --> 3:04:17.240 Ja's house. Is that true? No, it's yeah. I should 3:04:17.280 --> 3:04:21.560 have just let that. I should have just got He's 3:04:21.560 --> 3:04:25.840 gonna slightly constantly expand by like red string. It's like 3:04:26.320 --> 3:04:29.360 my red string board has head by head like yeah, 3:04:29.520 --> 3:04:32.440 oh yeah. Cato Institute named after Kato Kalin, the guy 3:04:32.520 --> 3:04:37.760 who o j Surper bro buddy. But it should come 3:04:37.800 --> 3:04:40.200 as no surprise that the grass roots quote unquote grassroots 3:04:40.240 --> 3:04:42.840 campaigns like No Left Turn on Reality link to influential 3:04:42.879 --> 3:04:46.480 conservative donors and packs like the Cato Institute and former 3:04:46.959 --> 3:04:50.600 Federalist Society and Vice president Leonard Leo. But then again, 3:04:50.840 --> 3:04:54.320 lies don't matter to the reactionary base that Republicans are 3:04:54.320 --> 3:04:57.240 hoping to rally to the front of this culture war. 3:04:57.879 --> 3:05:00.400 What matters to them is controlling the information that children 3:05:00.480 --> 3:05:03.920 have access to to obsensively keep them safe and innocent 3:05:04.520 --> 3:05:07.120 but in truth, because they think that if kids don't 3:05:07.160 --> 3:05:10.760 know but lgbt Q identities, they won't form one. It's 3:05:10.840 --> 3:05:14.800 conversion therapy by ignorance. End quote. But that that's an 3:05:14.800 --> 3:05:16.600 idea I'm going to kind of come back through, come 3:05:16.600 --> 3:05:18.560 back to a few times throughout the course of this episode, 3:05:18.920 --> 3:05:22.560 is the idea of conversion therapy by ignorance, which really 3:05:22.640 --> 3:05:26.680 does kind of I think have introduced a really good 3:05:26.920 --> 3:05:30.320 like mental framework to understand why these things are happening, 3:05:30.560 --> 3:05:32.720 because they think if they can keep kids from learning 3:05:32.760 --> 3:05:36.520 about these things, then they won't become gay or trance. 3:05:36.680 --> 3:05:39.160 It is it's like trying to isolate them so that 3:05:39.280 --> 3:05:42.240 so that their reality tunnel is so small so that 3:05:42.400 --> 3:05:44.240 they won't hopefully will never like break out of it. 3:05:44.720 --> 3:05:47.760 Um Now, obviously, if kids feel if kids start having 3:05:47.840 --> 3:05:51.000 feelings that break that channel, if they don't know that 3:05:51.080 --> 3:05:53.280 there's an alternative to that, that really kind of leads 3:05:53.280 --> 3:05:55.520 to things like depression and suicide, which is why it's 3:05:55.560 --> 3:05:58.959 so high among among queer kids in that region because 3:05:59.520 --> 3:06:03.280 it's like it's like they're fundamentally breaking realities. So it's 3:06:03.640 --> 3:06:06.760 that's hard to cope with. We're just gonna, it's gonna do. 3:06:06.800 --> 3:06:09.000 What's gonna do kind of one more segment quickly before 3:06:09.120 --> 3:06:12.920 before we haven't had break it is UH. It's it's interesting. 3:06:13.120 --> 3:06:14.600 We have like a lot of the parents that have 3:06:14.720 --> 3:06:18.600 been rallying for this UH have some interesting track records themselves. 3:06:19.480 --> 3:06:21.280 We can even you know, go back to UM uh 3:06:21.520 --> 3:06:24.720 to the Family Research Council with Josh Dougger having to 3:06:24.879 --> 3:06:28.400 save the children idea well you know himself being a 3:06:28.560 --> 3:06:36.520 child molester or help Billy Cade like yeah so um. 3:06:37.200 --> 3:06:41.520 In a secondingly ironic case, a Missouri parent named Ryan 3:06:41.640 --> 3:06:44.640 Utterback was charged in December with multiple accounts of child 3:06:44.720 --> 3:06:49.400 molestation and UH giving and distributing pornography to miners, including 3:06:49.400 --> 3:06:52.720 a child as young as four UM. Upon his rest, 3:06:52.840 --> 3:06:56.680 Utterback was heavily involved in the book banning advocacy, including 3:06:56.720 --> 3:07:00.720 protests against the books All Boys Aren't Blue and UH 3:07:01.080 --> 3:07:04.880 and other sex sad books. UM. He he said he 3:07:05.680 --> 3:07:07.680 gave a quote before he got arrested and when he 3:07:07.760 --> 3:07:10.760 was still doing like the book banning advocacy. Quote only 3:07:10.879 --> 3:07:14.000 I have the intimate understanding of what isn't isn't appropriate 3:07:14.080 --> 3:07:18.560 for my children, uh, which is quite quite the quite 3:07:18.680 --> 3:07:22.240 sentence to say on someone who is now arrested for 3:07:22.280 --> 3:07:29.080 a child molestation. So yeah, that's not Yeah, that's uh 3:07:29.160 --> 3:07:32.520 that sucks. But yeah, so like it's it's the idea 3:07:32.600 --> 3:07:35.880 that erasing, erasing documentation of queer lives and making it 3:07:36.040 --> 3:07:39.280 so that so that people to their kids only are 3:07:39.600 --> 3:07:42.920 exposed to a very kind of isolated worldview will make 3:07:42.959 --> 3:07:45.760 it easier to control um. And if they don't hear 3:07:45.760 --> 3:07:48.040 about something, maybe they'll just you know, live their life 3:07:48.080 --> 3:07:51.080 as a regular straight child. And that's that's their hope. 3:07:51.160 --> 3:07:53.480 Now obviously that doesn't that doesn't really happen in practice, 3:07:53.959 --> 3:07:55.920 but that's kind of what they're working towards. That. That's 3:07:55.959 --> 3:07:57.959 why this save the children thing is so important to them, 3:07:58.080 --> 3:07:59.720 because they really do think that they can save the 3:07:59.800 --> 3:08:02.560 kid children, like they do think that they can keep 3:08:02.920 --> 3:08:06.640 keep them from this stuff. So I think there's one 3:08:06.680 --> 3:08:09.040 other reason that they're doing that specifically they focus on 3:08:09.120 --> 3:08:14.480 books too, specifically the pornographic attack, which is that these 3:08:14.560 --> 3:08:18.760 kind of like incredible hard right, evangelicals are not the 3:08:18.959 --> 3:08:22.360 entire Republican base, and so like there are people who 3:08:22.440 --> 3:08:24.840 they have to convent, like they have to fully radicalize 3:08:24.840 --> 3:08:28.279 into into the extermination of where people the specifically extremis 3:08:28.280 --> 3:08:31.560 to transpeople and the like. The easiest way to do 3:08:31.760 --> 3:08:37.080 that is just by constantly associating anything queer with pedophilia 3:08:37.280 --> 3:08:42.360 and with like specific pifically pedophilia and specifically grooming. And 3:08:42.720 --> 3:08:44.959 you know, these kind of campaigns like they have dual effect. 3:08:45.000 --> 3:08:47.160 They have the effect on the one hand of the 3:08:47.240 --> 3:08:51.280 actual material harm to children and they're you know, like 3:08:51.879 --> 3:08:54.000 preventing them from having any access to anything that shows 3:08:54.080 --> 3:08:56.320 them that they could be queer. And then simultaneously it 3:08:56.400 --> 3:09:00.280 has this effect of creating this association in side of 3:09:00.320 --> 3:09:04.000 conservatives that allows you to push for even more genocidal 3:09:04.040 --> 3:09:06.440 stuff that without this they might not have been able 3:09:06.440 --> 3:09:12.039 to swallow. Yeah, well, speaking of genocidal actions, I'm sure 3:09:12.200 --> 3:09:14.600 that one of our sponsors have contributed to at least 3:09:14.600 --> 3:09:18.160 one attempt to genocide. I mean, we we are actually 3:09:18.600 --> 3:09:23.359 entirely sponsored this week by the former Indonesian dictator Suharto, 3:09:23.600 --> 3:09:27.040 So you know, big big thank you to him. Uh 3:09:27.200 --> 3:09:35.680 Pancasila forever and yeah, here's some ads. Ah, we're back. 3:09:36.879 --> 3:09:40.400 Don't don't don't google what Zukarno did in uh in 3:09:40.520 --> 3:09:47.160 West Papua. Hey, Hey, hey, hey, Suharto and Sukarno different. Yes, yes, yeah, 3:09:47.240 --> 3:09:49.000 I am very clear on this and that's why you 3:09:49.040 --> 3:09:52.480 should not google what Zukarno did in in Papua because 3:09:52.920 --> 3:09:56.280 dear God. But we will put his pastreon in the description. 3:09:56.480 --> 3:09:59.280 We will be backing his patreon heavily. Look at the 3:09:59.320 --> 3:10:04.080 show notes for at UM. Hi, welcome back. We're gonna 3:10:04.440 --> 3:10:07.720 we're gonna segue into other types of legislation now, but 3:10:07.840 --> 3:10:10.720 still kind of focusing on the whole parents rights to 3:10:10.840 --> 3:10:14.920 decide what scientific and medical knowledge children can have access 3:10:15.000 --> 3:10:18.440 to UM in terms of like the conversion therapy by 3:10:18.480 --> 3:10:22.920 ignorance category. So we're gonna talk about they don't Say 3:10:22.920 --> 3:10:25.600 Gay bill. So Florida's House and Senate just passed the 3:10:25.840 --> 3:10:28.680 so called don't say gay bill that bands mentioned of 3:10:28.760 --> 3:10:32.120 anything other than the strict heteronormativity and the you are 3:10:32.160 --> 3:10:34.880 the gender assined that birth kind of idea. UM for 3:10:35.160 --> 3:10:39.039 at least most developmentary school, it's banned and possibly farther 3:10:39.120 --> 3:10:42.160 reaching than that UM with teachers also opening themselves up 3:10:42.200 --> 3:10:45.920 to lawsuits if they fail to comply. It's formerly known 3:10:46.120 --> 3:10:50.680 as the Parental Rights in Education Bill, and the text 3:10:50.800 --> 3:10:54.600 of the legislation states that quote, classroom instruction by school 3:10:54.720 --> 3:10:58.400 personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity 3:10:58.760 --> 3:11:01.200 may not occur in kind of garden through third grade, 3:11:01.640 --> 3:11:04.040 or in any manner that is not aged appropriate or 3:11:04.120 --> 3:11:08.160 developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards. So 3:11:08.520 --> 3:11:11.920 it is it is very intentionally vague for how far 3:11:12.000 --> 3:11:15.120 reaching this can be, for how much they will determine 3:11:15.200 --> 3:11:18.800 what and what isn't appropriate for grades for an up 3:11:19.200 --> 3:11:23.880 who knows. Uh. Yeah, but it's not just it's not 3:11:24.080 --> 3:11:28.520 just limited to early grades. Classroom instruction on sexual orientation 3:11:28.560 --> 3:11:31.720 and general identity could be prohibited or at least taken 3:11:31.760 --> 3:11:34.960 to court at all grade levels, Uh, depending on what 3:11:35.400 --> 3:11:39.760 the parents find unacceptable. Right. It is. It's it's it's 3:11:39.760 --> 3:11:43.760 based on what the parents want to want to happen 3:11:43.879 --> 3:11:47.080 to to to the kids that are under their care. 3:11:47.280 --> 3:11:51.120 So it's it's specifically following kind of the framework that, yeah, 3:11:51.120 --> 3:11:54.080 you can you can report something if you don't like it. 3:11:54.320 --> 3:11:56.720 So it's it's it's very much pandering to like a 3:11:56.800 --> 3:12:00.240 reactionary conservative all this stuff that conservatives said was a 3:12:00.360 --> 3:12:03.959 nightmare about like the Stazi in East Germany and the KGB. 3:12:04.520 --> 3:12:08.000 They're like, but what if we just decentralized that, you know, 3:12:08.920 --> 3:12:13.200 and and let anyone who's a biggot report and ruin 3:12:13.320 --> 3:12:16.040 the lives of people around them for a variety of 3:12:16.120 --> 3:12:21.480 bullshit reasons. It's good. Yeah, it's ah. And I mean 3:12:21.959 --> 3:12:26.720 just like other states, like in Texas, the enforcement of 3:12:26.800 --> 3:12:28.920 it is not initially done by the government, but is 3:12:28.959 --> 3:12:31.879 open to a concern and fanatical public, saying that parents 3:12:32.000 --> 3:12:35.280 may bring action against the school district to obtain a 3:12:35.680 --> 3:12:39.520 declaratory judgment UM, and a court may award damages and 3:12:39.600 --> 3:12:42.279 attorney's fees if it finds the school violated the measure, 3:12:42.480 --> 3:12:46.520 So there's like financial incentives for parents for this UM. 3:12:47.080 --> 3:12:49.720 The bill will come into effect on the first of July, 3:12:50.240 --> 3:12:54.480 with all school districts UM required to update their policies 3:12:54.560 --> 3:12:58.440 by at least June. There was there was also a 3:12:58.520 --> 3:13:01.760 proposed amendment that would have required schools and educators to 3:13:01.920 --> 3:13:05.480 report if they knew or suspected a child was lgbt 3:13:05.600 --> 3:13:08.880 Q to their parents within six weeks. Of learning that Um, 3:13:09.240 --> 3:13:11.039 so within six weeks of learning, if they're not sis 3:13:11.160 --> 3:13:14.360 or straight, they would have to be reported to the parents. Um. 3:13:14.560 --> 3:13:16.959 But that that part was withdrawn before the bill reached 3:13:17.040 --> 3:13:19.080 the House. But in terms of like, this is the 3:13:19.120 --> 3:13:21.320 type of thing that well, is that like the legislators 3:13:21.360 --> 3:13:24.480 are thinking of. When it became increasingly apparent that the 3:13:24.520 --> 3:13:27.360 bill was going to be passed no matter what, uh, 3:13:28.120 --> 3:13:32.200 a Democrat, Chevin Jones, the first openly gay Florida state senator, 3:13:32.520 --> 3:13:34.680 tried to amend the bill to narrow the language to 3:13:34.800 --> 3:13:37.760 say that in classroom instruction should not be intended to 3:13:37.879 --> 3:13:41.280 change the students sexual orientation or gender identity, and specifically 3:13:41.360 --> 3:13:44.039 not marginalized queer people, and instead just limit the bill 3:13:44.080 --> 3:13:47.680 to itach appropriate sex. Said, and that amendment obviously failed, 3:13:48.480 --> 3:13:51.960 with Dennis Backley, the bill's main sponsor, saying that it 3:13:51.959 --> 3:13:55.440 would significantly get the bill's intent. So it's it's it's 3:13:55.520 --> 3:13:59.360 it's specifically to suppress knowledge of being queer. That is 3:13:59.440 --> 3:14:02.320 that is the whole that's the whole point of the bill. Um, 3:14:02.879 --> 3:14:05.320 you know, I mean the the governor claims that the 3:14:05.400 --> 3:14:09.080 bill addresses quote sexual stuff and quote telling kids that 3:14:09.160 --> 3:14:11.520 they may be able to pick genders and all that, 3:14:12.920 --> 3:14:16.880 saying that that has nothing to do like this is 3:14:16.920 --> 3:14:19.200 nothing to do with sex at all, like literally nothing, 3:14:20.000 --> 3:14:24.080 that's like but nothing. Yeah, it's but they still knew it, 3:14:24.320 --> 3:14:27.640 like the pornographic obscene kind of category because like it's right, 3:14:27.720 --> 3:14:30.959 it's the same thing like if you show gay people kissing, 3:14:31.720 --> 3:14:34.240 that is sexual. If you show stray people kissing, that 3:14:34.400 --> 3:14:39.200 isn't right. It's it's being queer as innately more obscene. 3:14:39.320 --> 3:14:41.120 It is. It is, it is. It is so much 3:14:41.200 --> 3:14:44.160 more of an issue. Rana Santist governor also said, like 3:14:44.400 --> 3:14:48.480 how many parents want their kindergarteners to have transjagenderism or 3:14:48.600 --> 3:14:52.280 something injected into their school discussion. Um, but that's so 3:14:52.360 --> 3:14:54.119 that type of stuff he says that like press conferences 3:14:54.120 --> 3:14:55.720 and stuff. So yeah, it is. It is very clear 3:14:55.760 --> 3:14:58.800 that the bill is targeted specifically towards gay people, um 3:14:58.920 --> 3:15:03.480 and being trying are being queer, being non sis, non straight, 3:15:03.680 --> 3:15:07.480 that whole that that that whole category. Um. The governor's 3:15:07.480 --> 3:15:12.760 press secretary called it the anti grooming bill, Um, you know, 3:15:12.879 --> 3:15:15.920 reviving the type of like you know, like that LGBT 3:15:16.000 --> 3:15:20.039 attacks have had for years, suggesting that you know, being 3:15:20.160 --> 3:15:22.560 gay means that you are a pedophile, or being trans 3:15:22.680 --> 3:15:25.040 means that you're a pedophile. It ties in with this 3:15:25.240 --> 3:15:27.520 thing you'll see in like the far right and the 3:15:27.600 --> 3:15:29.959 libertarian right, where people who have like kill your local 3:15:30.040 --> 3:15:33.560 pedophile bumper stickers and stuff because you can't argue with like, yeah, 3:15:33.600 --> 3:15:36.520 pedophiles are are the worst, that's horrible, But you don't 3:15:36.560 --> 3:15:39.920 actually mean people who molest children. You mean people who 3:15:40.000 --> 3:15:42.160 live in a way that you consider obscene, which you 3:15:42.200 --> 3:15:45.360 are equating with pedophilias that you can justify murdering those 3:15:45.400 --> 3:15:50.039 people eventually. Yep uh yeah, and when and when when 3:15:50.120 --> 3:15:53.200 confronted with actual pedophiles, they literally don't do ship well. 3:15:53.200 --> 3:15:55.360 They are off Like Andy No, for a great example, 3:15:55.560 --> 3:15:57.920 has regularly hung out around a specific I think it 3:15:58.040 --> 3:16:01.880 mostly is his name pedophile. The longest serving Republican Speaker 3:16:01.920 --> 3:16:04.680 of the House was a pedophile and passive scale it 3:16:05.000 --> 3:16:09.200 Dennis Haster d Hast that's what that? Um, that's what that? 3:16:09.680 --> 3:16:12.199 What's that German band? This would have been a decent 3:16:12.280 --> 3:16:15.440 joke if I remember their name right, Romstein. Yeah, well 3:16:15.480 --> 3:16:19.200 I sucked it up, okay, so anyway, please please continue. 3:16:20.200 --> 3:16:23.120 So yeah, but like they don't say gay. Bill tries 3:16:23.360 --> 3:16:26.360 even less than some of the like school book bands 3:16:26.760 --> 3:16:29.840 to hide behind the defense of prohibiting pornography. Like it 3:16:30.000 --> 3:16:32.280 just says the quiet part out loud, you know, saying 3:16:32.360 --> 3:16:35.760 that this bill is grounded in the belief loud part 3:16:35.800 --> 3:16:39.440 out loud. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like the bills just 3:16:39.480 --> 3:16:42.360 grounded in the belief that LGBTQ people simply by existing 3:16:42.480 --> 3:16:45.880 are a threat to like children and must be completely arrassed. 3:16:45.959 --> 3:16:49.279 Like that's that's the whole that's the whole idea. Following 3:16:49.360 --> 3:16:52.280 several hours of debate ahead of the vote in the Senate, 3:16:53.120 --> 3:16:57.880 a bill sponsor Atlanta Garcia claimed that quote, gay is 3:16:57.920 --> 3:17:00.960 not a permanent thing, and lgbt Q is not a 3:17:01.080 --> 3:17:04.840 permanent thing. So yeah, it's the type of like conversion 3:17:04.879 --> 3:17:07.040 therapy by ignorance thing. A lot of these people have 3:17:07.160 --> 3:17:09.800 advocated for conversion therapy to be legalized in the past 3:17:09.959 --> 3:17:12.640 or re legalized in the past. So yeah, they just 3:17:12.720 --> 3:17:14.640 they just don't want gay people to be around because 3:17:14.760 --> 3:17:20.920 they find the nikki. So it's it's not it's not 3:17:21.040 --> 3:17:24.279 just Florida though, right the fears with like hyper focusing 3:17:24.440 --> 3:17:26.840 on you know, just justin, justin, don't say, gay bill 3:17:26.879 --> 3:17:29.440 in Florida kind of like, you know, it ignores a 3:17:29.520 --> 3:17:31.920 lot of the other stuff that's happening across the entire country, 3:17:31.920 --> 3:17:33.400 if you do, when you're just focusing on on state, 3:17:33.640 --> 3:17:36.200 because there are like fifteen similar bills moving through state 3:17:36.600 --> 3:17:39.800 legislators that are strict how textbooks and curriculums are allowed 3:17:39.840 --> 3:17:42.720 to teach lgbt Q topics and even like who can 3:17:42.720 --> 3:17:44.920 be hired as teachers and what are what are like 3:17:45.000 --> 3:17:46.760 what's allowed to be said when it comes to genderal 3:17:46.800 --> 3:17:50.039 identity and sexual orientation. All like stuff is happening all 3:17:50.080 --> 3:17:53.080 across the country. Um House bill in Tennessee would band 3:17:53.120 --> 3:17:59.640 textbook and instructural materials that promote normalized support or address lesbian, gay, bisexual, 3:17:59.760 --> 3:18:04.800 or gender lifestyles quote unquote um in in in case 3:18:04.800 --> 3:18:08.320 three twelve schools so also also high school um in 3:18:08.840 --> 3:18:11.680 in UH. In Kansas, there's a bill that seeks to 3:18:11.720 --> 3:18:15.600 amend the state's absidity laws to make using classroom materials 3:18:15.640 --> 3:18:20.760 depicting homosexuality a Class B misdemeanor. UH legislators in Indiana 3:18:20.879 --> 3:18:25.160 are working to bar educators from discussing any content about 3:18:25.200 --> 3:18:30.720 sexual orientation, quote, transgenderism or general identity without permission from parents. 3:18:31.640 --> 3:18:34.959 In Oklahoma, there's a senate bill that would ban public 3:18:35.000 --> 3:18:37.840 schools from plowing anyone who quote promotes positions in the 3:18:37.920 --> 3:18:41.360 classroom or any or any function of the public school 3:18:41.680 --> 3:18:44.840 that is in opposition to the closely held religious beliefs 3:18:44.920 --> 3:18:49.360 of students. So that's that's interesting framing there. Yeah, and 3:18:49.600 --> 3:18:52.200 again we need to be very clear about this when like, 3:18:52.520 --> 3:18:55.440 when these people say deeply have religious beliefs, they mean 3:18:55.480 --> 3:18:59.359 fundamentalist Christianity. They're they're these people are very specifically attempting 3:18:59.360 --> 3:19:01.400 to turn these stay into a Christian at those state 3:19:01.760 --> 3:19:03.600 and this is the ship that they used to do it, 3:19:04.360 --> 3:19:09.680 And it's yeah, it's it's it's grim. We can look 3:19:09.720 --> 3:19:12.920 at like a recent report from the Trevor Project UM 3:19:13.040 --> 3:19:17.560 which is an lgbt Q suicide prevention and crisis internation group, 3:19:18.360 --> 3:19:21.000 and they did a recent report finding that l g 3:19:21.080 --> 3:19:23.680 b t Q youth who learn about l g b 3:19:23.800 --> 3:19:26.680 t Q people or l g b t Q issues 3:19:26.720 --> 3:19:31.320 in the school have a tent lower odds of reporting 3:19:31.360 --> 3:19:34.640 a suicide attempt in the past year. So just that 3:19:34.840 --> 3:19:37.840 like the knowledge that there is an alternative is like, 3:19:38.800 --> 3:19:41.800 is life changing for people right, the ability to to 3:19:41.959 --> 3:19:45.600 realize that there are other reality tunnels is can save 3:19:45.720 --> 3:19:48.720 people's lives, like it is. Yeah, I mean I like 3:19:49.040 --> 3:19:51.400 I I watched this happen like my my public school, 3:19:51.440 --> 3:19:52.720 Like I was in a public school, but I was 3:19:52.720 --> 3:19:54.680 in public school in a really conservative area. The only 3:19:54.760 --> 3:19:58.080 time anyone even mentioned being gay was screaming about gay marriage, 3:19:58.160 --> 3:20:01.360 and like we fucking saw some ship, Like a lot 3:20:01.440 --> 3:20:03.680 of extremely bad things happened to the queer kids. They're 3:20:03.680 --> 3:20:07.240 including me like it, yeah, like this this stuff kills people. 3:20:07.360 --> 3:20:10.240 It still hurts people. It is. I think that's that 3:20:11.680 --> 3:20:15.800 people in like more blue states don't quite understand, is 3:20:15.920 --> 3:20:20.520 how how absolute this type of thing is, like living 3:20:20.520 --> 3:20:24.880 in these communities, How how narrow your version of reality is, 3:20:25.040 --> 3:20:27.560 Like how how everything you're exposed to is so hyper 3:20:27.640 --> 3:20:30.880 focused that even knowledge of an alternative can be so 3:20:31.440 --> 3:20:35.120 mind blowing that it really is important to have at 3:20:35.200 --> 3:20:37.320 least this to be knowledgeable, because yeah, a lot of 3:20:37.360 --> 3:20:39.320 people who you know, a lot of people may not 3:20:39.400 --> 3:20:40.960 have access to the internet in the same way. It's 3:20:40.959 --> 3:20:43.879 like a lot of these groups, especially like especially Christian 3:20:43.920 --> 3:20:47.080 groups specifically, have like like you know, services that you 3:20:47.160 --> 3:20:51.000 can buy to like suppress websites on your WiFi, writers, 3:20:51.120 --> 3:20:53.680 is that only you're only available to access like certain websites. 3:20:53.720 --> 3:20:56.520 Like like, like it is a whole effort to restrict 3:20:56.600 --> 3:21:00.440 the reality that kids are exposed to to kind of 3:21:00.680 --> 3:21:07.039 railroad them into this hyper specific, kind of heteronormative idea 3:21:07.120 --> 3:21:09.960 of existence. So yeah, any type of thing that breaks 3:21:10.040 --> 3:21:13.160 these kids out of out of these reality tunnels can 3:21:13.480 --> 3:21:15.240 can be life changing, which is why they're trying to 3:21:15.280 --> 3:21:17.320 ban all these books of libraries because yeah, even if 3:21:17.360 --> 3:21:19.640 you even if you block websites, even if you were 3:21:19.640 --> 3:21:21.680 strict internet access, even if you were strict what can 3:21:21.720 --> 3:21:23.880 be taught in schools, you know, there's the fear of 3:21:24.120 --> 3:21:26.000 what if a kid goes to a library and finds 3:21:26.040 --> 3:21:28.560 a book about being gay? Then oh wow, that could 3:21:28.760 --> 3:21:30.800 that would you know, undo all of the effort that 3:21:31.160 --> 3:21:33.680 undo the thousands of dollars we spend on blocking internet 3:21:33.720 --> 3:21:37.320 access to two websites. So like that's why they're talking 3:21:37.320 --> 3:21:39.760 about like libraries and stuff is because yeah, if they 3:21:39.800 --> 3:21:42.280 find out about this stuff anywhere, then they're going to 3:21:42.360 --> 3:21:44.480 be in trouble. Like that's that's it's the whole point 3:21:44.560 --> 3:21:47.640 of like isolating people, isolating what they view as possible. 3:21:48.959 --> 3:21:53.080 So yeah, we're not gonna talking about some Uh, we're 3:21:53.080 --> 3:21:56.120 gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk money, money, money, money. Uh. 3:21:56.320 --> 3:21:57.840 The other thing that they don't say. Gay Bill has 3:21:57.920 --> 3:22:01.240 highlighted is the extent to which Big Illnesses and corporate 3:22:01.280 --> 3:22:04.880 America is financially funding many of these recent efforts to 3:22:04.959 --> 3:22:08.240 hack away queer rights. Uh. This has kind of been 3:22:08.280 --> 3:22:10.480 like a back and forth thing though, especially if you 3:22:10.520 --> 3:22:12.760 look back in the past few years under the Trump era. 3:22:13.600 --> 3:22:18.560 Let's take the North Carolina Bathroom Bill for example, arguably 3:22:18.760 --> 3:22:21.720 the opening act for the current onslaught of socially conservative 3:22:21.879 --> 3:22:25.840 legislation targeting and trans people. Remember this was like right 3:22:25.879 --> 3:22:28.000 after the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage, So this 3:22:28.120 --> 3:22:30.480 is when the needle starts to shift towards trans people. 3:22:31.160 --> 3:22:32.880 This is the bill that said that you have to 3:22:33.000 --> 3:22:36.640 use the bathroom assigned at matching the gender you were 3:22:36.640 --> 3:22:40.640 assigned at, BURGERSUNI certificate, all types of stuff, um putting again, 3:22:40.800 --> 3:22:44.160 unspoken bigotry, unspoken stuff. You know, you could be you know, 3:22:44.400 --> 3:22:46.920 arrested or harassed for doing this previously. But it's like 3:22:47.160 --> 3:22:51.040 putting this type of idea into concrete law. Right, This 3:22:51.240 --> 3:22:55.120 is once once progress starts, there's this like back pedaling 3:22:55.280 --> 3:22:56.720 so that they you know, they put they put that, 3:22:56.800 --> 3:22:59.640 they put what was once like unspoken bigotry and just 3:22:59.760 --> 3:23:03.760 like obvious bigotry into actual written law. Um, it's like 3:23:04.080 --> 3:23:08.200 make making it concrete. So during the bathroom Bill kind 3:23:08.200 --> 3:23:12.680 of whole thing in North Carolina, UM, we saw corporations 3:23:12.720 --> 3:23:15.960 trying to stay conscious of culture shifts, attempting to stay 3:23:16.000 --> 3:23:19.120 on the sympathetic side of the rising generations who would 3:23:19.160 --> 3:23:23.280 you know, become their future employees and customers, trying to 3:23:23.360 --> 3:23:25.800 appeal to them and keeping that in mind. So in 3:23:25.840 --> 3:23:28.640 the aftermath of the passage of the bathroom Bill, multiple 3:23:28.680 --> 3:23:33.880 companies like PayPal, Adidas, Doutsche Bank um all rescinded plans 3:23:33.959 --> 3:23:37.680 to invest in the States. Banks wild to like I mean, 3:23:37.760 --> 3:23:40.600 if there's if there's evil going on, Deutsche Bank is 3:23:40.640 --> 3:23:42.879 providing money to make it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's 3:23:42.959 --> 3:23:44.920 it's stunning, Like how bad you have to be that 3:23:45.080 --> 3:23:48.720 Deutsche Bank is? Like no, I like like every every 3:23:48.800 --> 3:23:53.720 person who's like Russia yet like like Deutsche Bank, like 3:23:55.120 --> 3:23:58.080 before like I knew someone who worked there who two 3:23:58.120 --> 3:24:01.200 of his coworkers like started like doing audits of their 3:24:01.240 --> 3:24:03.000 accounts and both of them wound up dead in their 3:24:03.000 --> 3:24:08.680 hotel rooms, non extradition countries. Yeah, that's scans. Yeah, like okay, 3:24:08.720 --> 3:24:11.120 so yeah, Deutsche Bank initially said they weren't gonna pull 3:24:11.160 --> 3:24:13.720 out of Russia, but like two days ago, as we record, 3:24:13.800 --> 3:24:17.600 this started pulling out. But they pulled out in North Carolina. 3:24:17.680 --> 3:24:26.720 They pulled North Carolina. Jesus Christ, big, big, big. You know, 3:24:26.920 --> 3:24:28.720 there's a degree to which is probably just like that 3:24:28.879 --> 3:24:31.720 Raytheon energy where it's like Raytheon, we're great with trans 3:24:31.800 --> 3:24:35.920 people that you're making missiles, then you're fine exactly. Yeah, 3:24:36.680 --> 3:24:40.280 I mean big musical artists like Bruce Springsteen, Pearl Jam 3:24:40.640 --> 3:24:43.960 and a former former R E M member Ringo Star 3:24:44.480 --> 3:24:48.080 kes Litt concerts. There did you call Ringo Star a 3:24:48.160 --> 3:24:50.960 member of R E M. Garrison the the n C 3:24:51.080 --> 3:24:56.600 Double A announced it was that was championship. Okay, okay, okay. 3:24:58.800 --> 3:25:00.600 If you'd lived through the nine these, you would never 3:25:00.680 --> 3:25:03.760 make fun of Michael Stipe again. At the National Basketball 3:25:03.800 --> 3:25:08.320 Association pulled its All Star game from Charlotte, almost seventy 3:25:08.680 --> 3:25:12.640 companies Joy did a lawsuit against the bill Um and 3:25:12.959 --> 3:25:16.119 you know, money talks the pressure worked, the state repealed 3:25:16.120 --> 3:25:19.560 the law in twhen He's seventeen uh. The same year abroad, 3:25:19.560 --> 3:25:22.520 a coalition of business leaders in Texas blocked a similar 3:25:22.600 --> 3:25:26.680 bill pushed by these Tonchley conservative then Republican Lieutenant Governor 3:25:26.879 --> 3:25:29.640 Dan Patrick. UM and we've seen the same type of 3:25:29.680 --> 3:25:32.480 thing happen in Georgia the past few years. UM with 3:25:33.120 --> 3:25:37.440 with actions like corporate Boycott's many large employeers pushing back 3:25:37.560 --> 3:25:41.600 on the succession of socially conservative bills, including like racist 3:25:41.720 --> 3:25:46.200 voting restrictions, six week abortion bands, and quote religious freedom 3:25:46.280 --> 3:25:49.600 bills that would give businesses protection to refuse customers or 3:25:49.680 --> 3:25:53.760 higher employees that are queer. UM. Prominent in that resistance 3:25:54.000 --> 3:25:56.800 was a Disney, which cast a long shadow over Georgia's 3:25:56.840 --> 3:26:01.840 economy via its filming of Marvel Movie Inside Atlanta. Yeah 3:26:02.640 --> 3:26:07.320 so yeah. Across many states, big corporate brands were quick 3:26:07.400 --> 3:26:12.720 to condemn obviously bigoted political moves. UM. Prominent Tennessee employeers 3:26:12.840 --> 3:26:17.440 like Nissan, del Amazon, and Vanderbilt University sent a since 3:26:17.520 --> 3:26:20.560 sent a letter last year opposing a suite of bills 3:26:20.560 --> 3:26:24.840 targeting lgbt Q rights, and a similarly, a group of 3:26:24.920 --> 3:26:28.920 Texas businesses business leaders declared opposition to Governor Greg Abbott's 3:26:29.280 --> 3:26:33.520 recent directive to investigate parents and others who provide transition 3:26:33.600 --> 3:26:38.080 treatment for for transgender youth. But after Trump got out 3:26:38.120 --> 3:26:40.640 of office, and particularly during this recent round of a 3:26:40.720 --> 3:26:43.880 tax on queer rights, companies have not really even backing 3:26:43.920 --> 3:26:49.720 up their words with any equivalent actions. After Tennessee last year, 3:26:49.800 --> 3:26:53.160 past all the bills that targeted lgbt Q rights, including 3:26:53.200 --> 3:26:58.320 measures restricting classroom discussion, UM, barring trans girls from any 3:26:58.400 --> 3:27:01.240 high school sports, and it's and its own version of 3:27:01.400 --> 3:27:05.200 the bathroom bill, it faced nothing like the North Carolina boycotts. 3:27:05.840 --> 3:27:07.840 There was, there was, There was just nothing because this 3:27:07.959 --> 3:27:11.160 is when Biden was president. Now, um so, whether it 3:27:11.200 --> 3:27:14.400 be the anti CRT stuff, voting restrictions, or stepping away 3:27:14.520 --> 3:27:17.800 lgbt Q rights the past year under Joe Biden, companies 3:27:17.840 --> 3:27:19.920 are not really bothered to push back on these socially 3:27:19.959 --> 3:27:24.840 conservative bills overtaking many states. It's it's they don't it's 3:27:25.280 --> 3:27:27.160 it's easier to push back. But it's easier to push 3:27:27.200 --> 3:27:29.920 back on something when you know when you have a 3:27:30.000 --> 3:27:33.080 big bad in office. I guess, uh, well, and I 3:27:33.160 --> 3:27:35.160 think also it's it's the companies can see which way 3:27:35.160 --> 3:27:37.959 the wind is blowing, right, Yeah, like it's a sat 3:27:38.080 --> 3:27:39.959 stating with grifters. When you when you when you watch 3:27:40.080 --> 3:27:42.120 people like when you watch streamers just like someddenly start 3:27:42.160 --> 3:27:43.720 to flip their political positions. When you when you watch 3:27:43.800 --> 3:27:45.440 the Love the live streamers in particularly do this when 3:27:45.440 --> 3:27:46.960 you watch them starting to flip that that's how you 3:27:47.000 --> 3:27:48.480 can tell which way the wind is blowing. And this 3:27:48.640 --> 3:27:52.520 is really fucking scary because you know the way the 3:27:52.560 --> 3:27:55.160 wind is blowing right now, that that these corporations are 3:27:55.320 --> 3:27:59.240 are are you know, drifting towards is just you know, 3:27:59.320 --> 3:28:04.640 and refusing to oppose is just this exterminationism. Yeah. I 3:28:04.680 --> 3:28:11.120 mean thankfully Disney got you know, shouted to like we're 3:28:11.160 --> 3:28:16.320 going to talk about so creators of the movie Song 3:28:16.400 --> 3:28:21.080 of the South. UM was notable that in their refusal 3:28:21.160 --> 3:28:24.240 to criticize the bill as it moved through the legislature 3:28:24.640 --> 3:28:29.520 under um the kind of recent stuff inside Florida specifically, so, 3:28:30.360 --> 3:28:32.360 but this was part of an overall pattern, Like the 3:28:32.720 --> 3:28:35.080 corporate response was was much more muted to they go 3:28:35.200 --> 3:28:38.440 to they don't say gay bill um in Florida compared 3:28:38.480 --> 3:28:41.000 to other stuff across across the country. Even UM, and 3:28:41.040 --> 3:28:45.880 it shouldn't really surprise anybody many of the Republican backers 3:28:46.000 --> 3:28:48.360 of the bill in Florida are actually bankrolled by the 3:28:48.480 --> 3:28:51.680 very same businesses that have done performative virtue signally boycott's 3:28:51.760 --> 3:28:55.680 and protests under the troumpb era. Uh. Disney and Disney 3:28:55.720 --> 3:28:58.920 World in Orlando is one of the state's biggest employers 3:28:59.000 --> 3:29:01.520 and and in a normal of s economic force inside Florida. 3:29:02.240 --> 3:29:06.279 And when disney silence was met with pushback, Bob Chapeck, 3:29:06.440 --> 3:29:11.600 the CEO, try to kind of do damage control at 3:29:11.640 --> 3:29:15.119 first like internally within the company and then for outside press. 3:29:15.800 --> 3:29:21.720 UM last Monday, I think, which was the seventh UM 3:29:22.640 --> 3:29:25.760 in a in a in a memo to Disney staff, 3:29:26.520 --> 3:29:29.959 Chapek argue that the company can do more to promote 3:29:30.080 --> 3:29:33.800 tolerance quote through the inspiring content we produce and the 3:29:33.879 --> 3:29:38.120 welcoming culture we create and the diverse community of organizations 3:29:38.200 --> 3:29:40.720 we support UM, which just funny if you know anything 3:29:40.760 --> 3:29:43.800 about the history of Disney. UM also saying that the 3:29:43.879 --> 3:29:46.840 messages in their movies are more powerful than any law 3:29:46.959 --> 3:29:52.640 being effort, which is uh yeah, which is also you know, 3:29:52.879 --> 3:29:56.160 great coming from the company most famous for queer coding 3:29:56.240 --> 3:30:03.920 almost all of their films, so sure, sure, bob um. 3:30:04.920 --> 3:30:07.880 Two days later, UM, at a shareholder meeting, was a 3:30:07.920 --> 3:30:11.680 little more open and told told shareholders that the company 3:30:11.760 --> 3:30:15.600 had privately opposed to the bill. Um, and we'll trying 3:30:15.640 --> 3:30:19.480 to explain why the silence in the recent legislative efforts 3:30:19.520 --> 3:30:23.840 to attack lgbt P LGBTQ people. He said that we 3:30:24.000 --> 3:30:25.760 chose not to take a public position on the bill 3:30:25.800 --> 3:30:27.680 because we felt like we could be more effective working 3:30:27.760 --> 3:30:30.920 behind the scenes, engaging directly with lawmakers on both sides 3:30:30.959 --> 3:30:34.600 of the aisle. But it uh. It later came out 3:30:34.879 --> 3:30:37.960 that Speck had only reached out to Florida Governor Randa 3:30:38.040 --> 3:30:41.320 Centers just that morning, after the bill had already had 3:30:41.320 --> 3:30:44.760 already passed. Yeah, we we need that cat from Saga 3:30:44.840 --> 3:30:49.080 that just yells lies. Yes, lying cats my favorite. UM 3:30:49.720 --> 3:30:54.840 definitely appreciate lying cat lying. Uh. Yeah. So, of course 3:30:54.920 --> 3:30:57.720 none of this satisfied anybody, um, and there's been increasing 3:30:57.920 --> 3:31:01.920 pushback from both within the Disney Company and outside um Uh. 3:31:02.120 --> 3:31:05.840 Pixar sent a letter to CHPEC criticizing his wishy washy 3:31:06.040 --> 3:31:08.720 stance on the on the on the don't Say Gay bill, 3:31:09.120 --> 3:31:11.160 and even goes on even goes on to goes on 3:31:11.240 --> 3:31:15.240 to criticize the corporation for capitalizing on pride through like 3:31:15.400 --> 3:31:20.240 a through rainbow mickey merchandizing and stuff, uh, saying, quote, 3:31:20.240 --> 3:31:22.040 it feels terrible to be part of a company that 3:31:22.120 --> 3:31:24.440 makes money from pride merch when it when it chooses 3:31:24.440 --> 3:31:26.760 to step back in times of our greatest need and 3:31:26.920 --> 3:31:30.280 when our rights are at risk, says the Pixar letter. 3:31:30.680 --> 3:31:35.120 So yeah, after after after, if you did after the 3:31:35.120 --> 3:31:38.760 shareholder meeting, Jpeck said, third times the charm and try 3:31:38.800 --> 3:31:42.160 again to save face, announcing the company would immediately begin 3:31:42.240 --> 3:31:46.640 supporting efforts to combat similar legislation in other states and 3:31:46.760 --> 3:31:49.880 would pause all political donations in the state pending a 3:31:49.920 --> 3:31:54.000 review of the company's political giving. Um conceding that the 3:31:54.040 --> 3:31:56.440 company failed to be a stronger ally in the fight 3:31:56.520 --> 3:31:59.120 for equal rights. And all that is well and good 3:31:59.280 --> 3:32:01.160 if you ignore the fact that in the past two 3:32:01.200 --> 3:32:05.439 years alone, Disney has given three thousand dollars to politicians 3:32:05.480 --> 3:32:07.680 in Florida who voted for they Don't Say Gay Bill. 3:32:08.400 --> 3:32:12.280 Um Disney entities donated at least four thousand dollars in 3:32:12.360 --> 3:32:17.120 the re election campaigns for the bill's chief sponsors a 3:32:17.200 --> 3:32:22.000 state representative Joe Harding and state sponsor Dennis Baxley. UM 3:32:22.080 --> 3:32:25.520 and Disney entities also donated fifty dollars to political action 3:32:25.600 --> 3:32:30.440 committee tied to the governor, Rhonda Santa's one just last year. 3:32:31.320 --> 3:32:34.560 So yeah, that's a that's a lot of money. Yeah, 3:32:34.600 --> 3:32:36.960 and I think I think it's worth like noting for 3:32:37.120 --> 3:32:41.560 people who like are somewhat younger, which is that like 3:32:41.640 --> 3:32:44.160 there's a whole thing where corporations pretend that they like 3:32:44.520 --> 3:32:47.040 queer people now and this is the thing that has 3:32:47.080 --> 3:32:51.000 existed for maybe a decade and the other several hundred 3:32:51.080 --> 3:32:55.560 years of capitalism are them like ruthless lee crushing queer 3:32:55.640 --> 3:32:59.280 people of all kinds. So yeah, this is this is 3:32:59.320 --> 3:33:02.120 their normal date. Queer capitalism is like not a thing. 3:33:02.240 --> 3:33:04.240 It's a it's a thing that exists solely to sell 3:33:04.280 --> 3:33:09.200 you sweatshirts. It's not a thing get that rainbow Mickey merchandise. Yeah, 3:33:09.320 --> 3:33:12.680 they want they are actively okay with funding people who 3:33:12.680 --> 3:33:15.400 want to kill you. So so as as I as 3:33:15.480 --> 3:33:18.080 I was writing this, UM last week tonight the show 3:33:18.200 --> 3:33:22.400 with Jonathan Oliver came out with a small piece that 3:33:22.520 --> 3:33:26.200 was covering similar ground, uh to to my writing. That 3:33:26.320 --> 3:33:30.480 also included some nice, nice, nice background on Disney sponsored 3:33:30.520 --> 3:33:32.760 politician and lead sponsor. If they don't say gay bill 3:33:32.800 --> 3:33:37.440 that Dennis Baxley. Um, so yeah, apparently Baxley has said 3:33:37.520 --> 3:33:42.359 that quote abortion is causing Europeans to be replaced by immigrants. 3:33:43.000 --> 3:33:46.880 Disney's going back to its Nazi roots, nice little white replacement. 3:33:46.959 --> 3:33:51.400 Lie um inwent He worked on bills to repeal protections 3:33:51.480 --> 3:33:55.360 for queer workers and worked to relegalize gay conversion therapy 3:33:56.000 --> 3:33:59.600 um and teen. At some kind of fundraising event, he 3:33:59.720 --> 3:34:02.320 said that quote, I know some districts where there's a 3:34:02.360 --> 3:34:07.720 big infestation of homosexuals that are pushing their agenda under 3:34:07.760 --> 3:34:10.520 the screen and then trying to get more people hired 3:34:10.600 --> 3:34:12.920 like them instead up gated options and all this stuff. 3:34:13.200 --> 3:34:15.520 It's a continual fight for the values that we hold, 3:34:15.600 --> 3:34:19.120 dear boy, brought to you, brought to you by Disney. 3:34:20.280 --> 3:34:26.840 And yeah, ticket infestation. Yeah, it's a yeah take take 3:34:27.120 --> 3:34:30.520 take none of the infestation there. Um. That kind of 3:34:30.560 --> 3:34:33.600 ties into my whole, my whole like viewing, you know, 3:34:33.760 --> 3:34:37.360 queerness as a contagion kind of idea, well, which I 3:34:37.440 --> 3:34:41.000 mean viewing the enemy is a contagion is also older 3:34:41.040 --> 3:34:43.240 than just viewing queer people as a contagion, because it's 3:34:43.240 --> 3:34:45.360 exactly how Hitler talked about the Jews, and you know, 3:34:45.480 --> 3:34:46.880 it goes. We can look at like some of the 3:34:46.959 --> 3:34:49.880 things the Turks would say about Armenians. It's this idea 3:34:50.120 --> 3:34:53.280 of you know, you, there's no there's no middle ground 3:34:53.400 --> 3:34:56.040 with a virus, and if you turn people into a virus, 3:34:56.120 --> 3:35:00.400 then you don't have to consider a middle ground. Um. 3:35:01.080 --> 3:35:03.199 So before we go and break, I'm gonna I'm gonna 3:35:03.240 --> 3:35:05.520 do one more. I'm gonna do a quote from an 3:35:05.600 --> 3:35:09.880 article in The Atlantic, um titled want to understand the 3:35:09.959 --> 3:35:13.440 Red State onslaught look at Florida. Um, it's a it's 3:35:13.480 --> 3:35:15.800 a it's a deccent article kind of going through the 3:35:15.879 --> 3:35:20.040 financial stuff that Disney has kind of backed. Um. But yeah, quote, 3:35:20.400 --> 3:35:23.680 why have so many companies backed away from these fights? Um, 3:35:23.800 --> 3:35:28.000 the fights against the group legislation. Some corporate lobbyists I 3:35:28.080 --> 3:35:30.119 spoke with said that one reason is that they believe 3:35:30.200 --> 3:35:35.080 the public opposition is counterproductive because more Republican elected officials 3:35:35.120 --> 3:35:37.920 in the Donald Trump era find it politically valuable to 3:35:38.000 --> 3:35:42.199 be seen as fighting big companies. Businesses also frequently complained 3:35:42.280 --> 3:35:46.120 that the widening gulf between the parties leaves them in 3:35:46.200 --> 3:35:49.720 a lose lose position of alienating an important block of 3:35:49.760 --> 3:35:54.360 potential customers wherever they come down on policy debates. UM 3:35:54.400 --> 3:35:56.760 activists the point out that business is often try to 3:35:56.840 --> 3:36:01.600 have both ways by rhetorically identifying causes such as inclusion 3:36:01.640 --> 3:36:04.959 and diversity without taking any tangible steps to defend them. 3:36:05.520 --> 3:36:09.280 Another factor probably looms larger than any of these considerations. 3:36:10.440 --> 3:36:12.920 However much they want to publicly align with the values 3:36:13.000 --> 3:36:17.200 of younger customers and consumers and workers, big companies want 3:36:17.240 --> 3:36:20.440 to only want to go only so far in fighting 3:36:20.480 --> 3:36:23.960 these proposals because they still mostly prefer Republicans and control 3:36:24.000 --> 3:36:27.640 state governments to deliver the low tax like regulation policies 3:36:27.680 --> 3:36:31.000 that they favor. State Republicans have, in turn, have grown 3:36:31.080 --> 3:36:34.720 more overt about threatening those beliefs when business leaders raise 3:36:34.760 --> 3:36:38.440 objections to the cultural war components of their agenda. When 3:36:38.480 --> 3:36:42.480 American Airlines criticized the restrictive voting bill in Texas past 3:36:42.600 --> 3:36:46.560 last year, Lieutenant Governor Patrick openly threatened to kill other 3:36:46.720 --> 3:36:51.080 legislation the company had cared about. So yeah, like, obviously, 3:36:51.240 --> 3:36:54.039 companies want Republicans to be in charge because it will 3:36:54.120 --> 3:36:58.080 make it easier to run their big giant corporate businesses 3:36:58.200 --> 3:37:01.520 that basically are as powerful a lot of a lot 3:37:01.560 --> 3:37:05.080 of other like government entities. Uh so, yeah, they're gonna 3:37:05.120 --> 3:37:10.720 spend supporting Rhonda Santis. They're gonna spends in the past 3:37:11.160 --> 3:37:13.879 the past two years, was supporting all these Republican candidates 3:37:13.920 --> 3:37:16.240 that voted for for they don't say, gay bill, because 3:37:16.320 --> 3:37:20.120 that makes them more profit in the long run. And 3:37:20.200 --> 3:37:22.440 that's you know, if you're if you're running a business, 3:37:23.120 --> 3:37:26.880 that's what they want. So yep, that is Uh, I'm 3:37:26.920 --> 3:37:28.920 gonna we're We're gonna take another ad break and then 3:37:29.000 --> 3:37:32.480 we will we will come back to talk about Texas 3:37:32.640 --> 3:37:36.160 and and and bathroom bills and healthcare and all of 3:37:36.280 --> 3:37:43.280 the other kind of stuff that's happened in recent weeks. Hot. Yeah, hello, 3:37:43.440 --> 3:37:45.600 we are back. Sorry, I was, I was taking some 3:37:45.680 --> 3:37:49.080 time to listen to my favorite Ringo Star RM album 3:37:49.520 --> 3:37:52.920 in the break in between reading books by It's a 3:37:52.959 --> 3:37:56.080 really good combo of the media. How how dare you 3:37:56.200 --> 3:38:01.480 not the not properly appreciating Michael Stipe, the voice of 3:38:01.840 --> 3:38:09.440 several generations Michael Stiper Michael Stipe, Yeah, so he was, 3:38:10.640 --> 3:38:13.880 I mean, yeah, I I really like the Black Keys. 3:38:14.440 --> 3:38:18.879 So anyway, UM, I'm gonna make more bad music jokes 3:38:19.160 --> 3:38:23.440 or I could continue my script. Yeah, please continue. We 3:38:23.480 --> 3:38:25.920 don't have to talk about all of the wonderful contributions 3:38:25.959 --> 3:38:29.240 your generation is made to music like uh, like you 3:38:29.440 --> 3:38:33.240 two with Hits, like you two, famed Zoomer bands, you 3:38:33.440 --> 3:38:38.920 two with Hitman George Harrison. M Yep, You're gonna make 3:38:38.959 --> 3:38:40.800 a lot of people happy, Garrison, A lot of people 3:38:40.879 --> 3:38:43.680 real happy at least everyone. States have introduced bills that 3:38:43.720 --> 3:38:47.640 would band trans athletes from competing in sports that correspond 3:38:47.680 --> 3:38:51.960 to their gender identities UM. Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee have already 3:38:52.000 --> 3:38:55.600 signed such bills into law. At the start of this year, 3:38:55.920 --> 3:38:58.360 new restructions were put into place for for in in 3:38:58.480 --> 3:39:03.640 Texas to also restrict UM what K through twelve school 3:39:03.680 --> 3:39:07.560 sports people can be on now, making them specifically match 3:39:08.080 --> 3:39:10.400 they're sex listed on their birth certificate at or near 3:39:10.440 --> 3:39:13.240 time of birth. UM and even when the states who 3:39:13.360 --> 3:39:16.600 don't just have blanket bands. There's other horrifying things happening 3:39:17.320 --> 3:39:20.160 UH like. In the beginning of last February, it came 3:39:20.200 --> 3:39:23.840 out that the Utah Republicans are making UH and have 3:39:23.959 --> 3:39:27.640 proposed a commission to analyze the bodies of trans kids 3:39:28.480 --> 3:39:31.760 that would determine student athletes eligibility on a case by 3:39:31.800 --> 3:39:35.600 case basis, with having the authority to establish a baseline 3:39:35.680 --> 3:39:40.640 range for fiscal characteristics affected by puberty, banning schools school 3:39:40.800 --> 3:39:43.560 school athletes who do not fall within these established limits 3:39:44.040 --> 3:39:48.440 from participating in generate sports. Um. Also a non fun 3:39:48.720 --> 3:39:51.200 fun side side but about the bill is that in 3:39:51.360 --> 3:39:55.160 their efforts to analyze the bodies of trans kids, the 3:39:55.200 --> 3:39:58.000 bill would also remember the commission immune from any lawsuit 3:39:58.120 --> 3:40:00.520 with respect to all acts done and a has taken 3:40:00.560 --> 3:40:03.879 in good faith and carrying out their purposes. Um. Yeah, 3:40:03.920 --> 3:40:05.400 And this is this is something that I think is 3:40:05.680 --> 3:40:10.600 really common specifically with transphobia, which is that like all 3:40:10.680 --> 3:40:13.960 of the rhetoric about transphobia is about sort of like 3:40:14.520 --> 3:40:16.840 like a huge amount of it's about molestation. Here's about 3:40:17.080 --> 3:40:20.240 amount amount of it's about pedophilia. And then I mean, 3:40:20.320 --> 3:40:22.440 specifically with the molestation part, it's like, yeah, Okay, so 3:40:22.480 --> 3:40:24.920 we're gonna have this council, right, We're gonna have we're 3:40:24.920 --> 3:40:27.040 gonna have this commission, and these people are gonna they're 3:40:27.040 --> 3:40:29.280 they're going to just like they're going to molest these kids. Right, 3:40:29.840 --> 3:40:31.520 but like this, this is just something that happened to 3:40:31.520 --> 3:40:34.680 transpeople constant, like the t s A like constantly. It's 3:40:34.720 --> 3:40:38.600 just an enormous engine for just like like sexually abusing 3:40:38.680 --> 3:40:41.560 every single trans person who goes who goes into an airport, 3:40:41.920 --> 3:40:44.480 Like I've definitely had not fun experiences at the airport 3:40:44.560 --> 3:40:47.200 the past few times. Like this is this is the 3:40:47.240 --> 3:40:53.039 thing is It's like it's it's they they impose as 3:40:53.120 --> 3:40:56.000 a sanction on trans people, the things that they claim 3:40:56.040 --> 3:40:59.520 trans people are doing. Yes, and it's it is. And 3:40:59.600 --> 3:41:02.039 it's also so interesting you'll find how many of these 3:41:02.280 --> 3:41:06.680 kind of bill sponsors politicians um eventually have it come 3:41:06.720 --> 3:41:09.119 out that like they watch a lot of like trans 3:41:09.240 --> 3:41:12.400 pornography and stuff. It's like it's it's all it's all fake, 3:41:12.520 --> 3:41:15.000 like all like everything, like everything they say they don't 3:41:15.040 --> 3:41:17.080 actually mean. It's all about the culture war, it's all 3:41:17.080 --> 3:41:19.879 about all the fucking like save the children's stuff. It's 3:41:19.879 --> 3:41:23.280 all in opposite that they can get elected into politics. Right, Well, 3:41:23.320 --> 3:41:24.680 we'll talk about this with like that with like the 3:41:25.000 --> 3:41:27.760 with the Texas thing, how all of the big New 3:41:27.800 --> 3:41:30.959 Texas stuff happened like days before the primary election because 3:41:31.000 --> 3:41:33.960 they were being challenged by by by other politicians that 3:41:34.000 --> 3:41:36.720 were farther to the right of them. So it's all 3:41:36.760 --> 3:41:39.600 like a political ploy. But the problem is is that 3:41:39.760 --> 3:41:43.360 at certain points, because of how long the culture war 3:41:43.480 --> 3:41:46.400 kind of idea has been going, there's people who you know, 3:41:46.520 --> 3:41:49.200 sincerely bought into the idea of the of the culture 3:41:49.200 --> 3:41:53.520 war now themselves running for office. Um, so like it 3:41:53.680 --> 3:41:55.880 is like they do actually genuinely believe the things now 3:41:56.240 --> 3:41:57.600 it is it is like it is like a full 3:41:57.640 --> 3:42:00.120 circle thing of things that were just you know, just 3:42:00.280 --> 3:42:03.680 to get votes initially, like things that weren't really believe sincerely, 3:42:03.879 --> 3:42:07.800 just just to wold votes. But now people who were 3:42:07.840 --> 3:42:11.400 brought up in that whole political idea are starting to 3:42:11.480 --> 3:42:13.440 run for office who do actually believe those in those 3:42:13.440 --> 3:42:16.440 things that sincerely So now it's it's leading its leading 3:42:16.480 --> 3:42:18.280 to a whole new kind of onslot of rights because 3:42:18.320 --> 3:42:21.600 these people have just escalated and accelerated the whole cultural 3:42:21.680 --> 3:42:23.400 or idea. Yeah. Well, and and the other thing is 3:42:23.440 --> 3:42:26.720 like they've linked up with people who like people whose 3:42:26.720 --> 3:42:29.120 politics is at the church or people whose politics have 3:42:29.320 --> 3:42:32.840 specifically been about eliminated trans people for like half a century, right, 3:42:32.879 --> 3:42:36.880 like there, there's there's the linkages that are being formed 3:42:37.000 --> 3:42:41.000 between people who have sort of like you know, between 3:42:41.080 --> 3:42:47.320 these militantly anti trans organizations, in between sort of these 3:42:47.360 --> 3:42:50.720 people who buy into this, like either who are very 3:42:50.720 --> 3:42:52.880 who who are cynically deploying the sort of the sort 3:42:52.920 --> 3:42:55.720 of Christian supremacist rhetoric, or the people who are just 3:42:55.840 --> 3:43:02.080 actual like Christian fascists. Right, Like, these people like these 3:43:02.120 --> 3:43:03.879 people are going together to the point where it doesn't 3:43:03.920 --> 3:43:07.320 it doesn't really matter why they're doing it. Okay, at 3:43:07.360 --> 3:43:10.240 certain points, like the reason why specifically they're doing it 3:43:10.280 --> 3:43:14.920 becomes immaterial and you're just sort of left with the 3:43:15.040 --> 3:43:20.320 things that they are doing. Yeah, it's I mean, and 3:43:20.560 --> 3:43:22.600 there's has just been so much of it the past 3:43:22.840 --> 3:43:26.920 the past year specifically like over like overall, more than 3:43:27.000 --> 3:43:29.920 one hundred bills designed to restrict the rights of transgender 3:43:30.000 --> 3:43:32.520 of transgender people have been introduced in at least thirty 3:43:32.560 --> 3:43:36.200 three states. It justin just one, which is like it's 3:43:36.240 --> 3:43:38.320 become a record breaking here for any kind of anti 3:43:38.360 --> 3:43:41.040 trans legislation. It's just it is accelerated to such a 3:43:41.920 --> 3:43:46.560 extreme degree um and now continuing in two legislative cycle 3:43:47.120 --> 3:43:52.080 um last spring in in in in Arkansas, the state 3:43:52.400 --> 3:43:55.600 legislator banned gender of her main care for minors UM, 3:43:55.720 --> 3:43:59.120 including you know, puberty blockers HRT, all the stuff you 3:43:59.200 --> 3:44:03.440 know UM. And the House Bill one five seven oh 3:44:03.879 --> 3:44:09.240 prevents transpeople from receiving hormotherapy, puberty blockers, similar treatments. UM. 3:44:09.360 --> 3:44:13.960 It was called the Save Adolescence from Experimentation Act UM, 3:44:14.120 --> 3:44:19.160 you know, referring to medical treatment as experimentation UM. And 3:44:19.360 --> 3:44:23.720 shortly after the bill was signed into law, UM, the 3:44:24.160 --> 3:44:26.959 doctors who run the largest or who ran the largest 3:44:27.240 --> 3:44:30.960 provider of of hormone therapy and the state reported an 3:44:30.959 --> 3:44:34.120 increase in suicid attempts in their patients during like just 3:44:34.360 --> 3:44:37.720 that same month. UM. It was it was the first 3:44:37.760 --> 3:44:40.080 of its kind of bill signed into law, and it 3:44:40.160 --> 3:44:42.760 was it was initially vetoed by the governor, but then 3:44:42.800 --> 3:44:46.720 that veto was overturned by the state legislator. So and 3:44:46.840 --> 3:44:50.120 that kind of similar laws have been have been happening 3:44:50.200 --> 3:44:53.640 in states ever since then. We're not gonna talk about Texas, UM, 3:44:54.440 --> 3:44:57.760 because that's one of the one of the biggest, one 3:44:57.760 --> 3:44:59.480 of the biggest kind of things in this whole fight 3:44:59.600 --> 3:45:03.640 is the stuff around Texas. So Texas officials have begun 3:45:03.720 --> 3:45:08.760 investigating parents of transgender adolescence for possible child abuse, according 3:45:08.800 --> 3:45:12.480 to a lawsuit filed on a few a few weeks ago, 3:45:13.160 --> 3:45:17.359 after Governor Greg Abbott directed UH the the Child Protective 3:45:17.400 --> 3:45:21.440 Services Agency in Texas, to handle certain medical treatments, including 3:45:21.760 --> 3:45:25.960 puberty blockers and h RT, as possible crimes. The directive 3:45:26.040 --> 3:45:29.560 from Governor Abbott was following a non binding opinion by 3:45:29.640 --> 3:45:33.920 Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton UM saying that parents who 3:45:33.959 --> 3:45:38.920 provide their transgender teenagers with doctor prescribed a care could 3:45:38.920 --> 3:45:43.760 be investigated for child abuse. So the moves by both 3:45:43.879 --> 3:45:49.240 Abbott and Paxton tried to Republican UH incumbents came just 3:45:49.400 --> 3:45:52.520 days before the primary election UM in which each of 3:45:52.560 --> 3:45:57.920 them faced significant challenges from farther right opponents. UM. So 3:45:58.120 --> 3:46:03.279 they've both fad they've faced criticis them from not being staunch, 3:46:03.800 --> 3:46:06.960 staunchly anti trans enough in the past, like in the 3:46:07.040 --> 3:46:10.879 months prior to this, and they did this to hopefully, 3:46:11.000 --> 3:46:14.760 you know, gain support from the more radical UH, more 3:46:14.879 --> 3:46:17.880 radical voters in Texas. That's like, that is that is 3:46:17.959 --> 3:46:20.520 undoubtedly a big, a big, big part of why this 3:46:20.640 --> 3:46:23.760 happened at the time that it did. They did the 3:46:23.800 --> 3:46:28.680 same thing both Paxiston, well, let's Paxton, but Abbott did 3:46:28.720 --> 3:46:31.720 basically the same thing with like masks in the last 3:46:32.040 --> 3:46:33.840 year two where it's like yeah, you know, I mean 3:46:33.920 --> 3:46:36.160 it's it's great because the people are just they will 3:46:36.240 --> 3:46:40.000 literally kill thousands of people in or just hold onto 3:46:40.040 --> 3:46:43.720 their power and it's among to be. The first people 3:46:43.760 --> 3:46:48.600 investigated for child abuse was actually an employee by the 3:46:48.720 --> 3:46:52.360 States Protective Services Agency who had a sixteen year old 3:46:52.480 --> 3:46:55.480 transgender child. On March one, the A c l U 3:46:55.640 --> 3:47:01.520 of Texas and Lambda Lambda Legal great great name went 3:47:01.600 --> 3:47:04.000 to state court in Austin to try to stop this 3:47:04.120 --> 3:47:07.640 inquiry into this family. Who again, who who worked for? 3:47:08.120 --> 3:47:13.080 Who worked for the Child Protective Services Agency UM. The employee, 3:47:13.080 --> 3:47:15.560 who was not named in the court filing works on 3:47:15.760 --> 3:47:19.520 reviews of reports of abuse and neglect. She was past 3:47:19.560 --> 3:47:23.000 on administrative leave a few weeks ago. According to the filing, 3:47:23.600 --> 3:47:27.040 the friday after Governor Abbott made the initial kind of 3:47:27.120 --> 3:47:30.840 letter UM, she was visited by an investigator from the 3:47:30.959 --> 3:47:34.200 agency UM, who was also seeking medical records related to 3:47:34.280 --> 3:47:37.920 her child. The family of the child, identified in court 3:47:37.959 --> 3:47:41.840 documents only as Mary Doe has as as refused to 3:47:41.920 --> 3:47:44.400 voluntarily a turn of the records and as taking the 3:47:44.440 --> 3:47:48.400 case to court. According to the lawsuit, the state investigator 3:47:48.480 --> 3:47:51.240 told parents that the only allegation against them was that 3:47:51.400 --> 3:47:55.359 their transgender daughter may have been provided with gender affirming 3:47:55.400 --> 3:47:59.120 healthcare and was currently transitioning, and that was that was 3:47:59.240 --> 3:48:01.080 the claims I was, that was the basis for the 3:48:01.120 --> 3:48:04.680 claims of of of of of child abuse. It's a 3:48:05.520 --> 3:48:08.720 so like. Initially, it wasn't clear if Abbot's order would 3:48:08.760 --> 3:48:12.320 survive kind of judicial scrutinty because the order does not 3:48:12.440 --> 3:48:16.119 any The order doesn't change any Texas law. UM. It's 3:48:16.200 --> 3:48:19.959 just it's just an opinion piece. And several county attorneys 3:48:20.000 --> 3:48:23.840 and district attorneys of Dallas and Houston have publicly condemned 3:48:23.959 --> 3:48:27.320 Abbots and Pakiston's directives UM, clarifying that they would not 3:48:27.440 --> 3:48:30.480 prosecute families for child abuse under the new definition and 3:48:30.520 --> 3:48:34.200 they would not irrationally um and unjustiably interfere with medical 3:48:34.240 --> 3:48:38.160 decisions UM. The mayor of Austin announced that Austin should 3:48:38.160 --> 3:48:41.800 be considered a safe place, a sanctuary for transgender children 3:48:41.879 --> 3:48:44.160 and their families, and they would not be enforcing the 3:48:44.200 --> 3:48:46.760 governor's mandate. So it's quite a time to be alive, 3:48:46.879 --> 3:48:51.400 to have sanctuary cities for being trans yep. And of 3:48:51.480 --> 3:48:53.480 course all of these things, whether it be from like 3:48:53.560 --> 3:48:55.920 the d A S or the mayor, that doesn't stop 3:48:56.040 --> 3:48:58.840 Child Protective Services from not investigating you like that doesn't 3:48:58.879 --> 3:49:01.480 like that doesn't like they can still investigate and harass you. 3:49:01.640 --> 3:49:03.840 They can still send agents to your door. They can 3:49:03.879 --> 3:49:06.000 still try to see his medical records, right, they can 3:49:06.040 --> 3:49:09.320 still investigate claims even if even if the DA won't prosecute. 3:49:09.520 --> 3:49:12.600 There's still that massive like looming threat of and like 3:49:12.720 --> 3:49:18.560 that like terror like holding over you know, people's heads. Um, 3:49:19.200 --> 3:49:20.920 you know it's it's it's a it is like a 3:49:21.000 --> 3:49:22.960 mass it's a massive scare tactic, right it is. It 3:49:23.080 --> 3:49:25.520 is to terrorize people like they will be too scared 3:49:25.640 --> 3:49:27.600 to transition because they don't want their family to get 3:49:27.600 --> 3:49:32.120 in trouble. It's it's pretty grim. It's pretty it's pretty 3:49:32.200 --> 3:49:36.040 it's pretty evil. Um. So on the for for the 3:49:36.160 --> 3:49:38.760 for the a cl U and the LAMBDA Legal Court 3:49:38.840 --> 3:49:42.200 failing uh, they they're they're seeking to block the request 3:49:42.240 --> 3:49:46.360 for medical records from the employees case and more broadly 3:49:46.480 --> 3:49:50.360 kind of challenge the legitimacy of the entire investigation and 3:49:50.440 --> 3:49:52.960 the power that the government has to change this definition 3:49:53.000 --> 3:49:56.160 of child abuse. It's a because it's it's it's it's 3:49:56.160 --> 3:49:58.760 it's also important important to mention that the mandatory as 3:49:59.200 --> 3:50:02.240 the mandatory report wunning aspect of the bill, which was 3:50:02.600 --> 3:50:04.800 well not not bill of the of the legal opinion 3:50:05.000 --> 3:50:09.840 that was really emphasized in Governor Abbot's directive UM. Abbott 3:50:09.840 --> 3:50:11.920 describing his letter that the order would mean that all 3:50:12.000 --> 3:50:17.160 licensed professionals who have direct contact with children, including doctors, nurses, therapists, 3:50:17.200 --> 3:50:19.880 and even school teachers, would be required to report to 3:50:19.920 --> 3:50:23.720 state authorities um if if if they believe that there 3:50:23.880 --> 3:50:26.760 is a minor who is trans or could be receiving 3:50:26.800 --> 3:50:29.680 any kind of gender affirming treatment. Um and if they 3:50:29.680 --> 3:50:33.920 don't report this, they could themselves faced criminal penalties. So 3:50:34.160 --> 3:50:36.280 the whole, the whole mandatory reporting aspects and other like 3:50:36.480 --> 3:50:40.800 insanely insanely bad thing that we could talk about it 3:50:40.800 --> 3:50:42.840 for a long time. This episode is getting long enough, 3:50:42.960 --> 3:50:45.520 so we're just gonna continue through and we can we 3:50:45.560 --> 3:50:48.840 can ponder at how at how bad that is. UM. 3:50:50.120 --> 3:50:53.440 One parent of a transgender a teenager in Houston to 3:50:53.680 --> 3:50:56.920 the family's health clinic Legacy Community Health had suspended all 3:50:56.960 --> 3:51:00.600 refills and a new prescriptions for a transgender their youth 3:51:01.000 --> 3:51:05.680 in light of Abbot's new order. So it's it's happening, Like, yeah, 3:51:05.720 --> 3:51:08.400 it's there, it's the stuff has happened, the stuff has started. 3:51:08.440 --> 3:51:10.880 It's it's already scaring people into not doing stuff, like 3:51:11.000 --> 3:51:15.680 it's it's that is what to do. Yeah, and and 3:51:15.960 --> 3:51:18.840 I and I know we keep making this episode longer, 3:51:18.960 --> 3:51:22.480 but like it is worth mentioning that, like it actually 3:51:22.640 --> 3:51:27.880 like having someone even temporarily like being off of the 3:51:27.960 --> 3:51:30.360 hormones that they've been taking for for HRT, like that 3:51:30.480 --> 3:51:34.920 fucking sucks. Yeah, it's like it has really bad negative effects. 3:51:35.280 --> 3:51:37.240 I mean yeah, like people will be surprised how fast 3:51:37.320 --> 3:51:40.920 hormones start working and how fast going off of them 3:51:41.080 --> 3:51:43.240 they stopped working. Like it is, it is. It is 3:51:43.280 --> 3:51:46.360 pretty it is pretty surprising. And like I didn't want 3:51:46.360 --> 3:51:48.600 to get tons into like the science of being trans 3:51:48.640 --> 3:51:50.440 in this because that's because that's not the focus of 3:51:50.520 --> 3:51:53.080 this week. We're talking about the legislation and the onslaught 3:51:53.520 --> 3:51:56.000 of queer rights of people trying to hurt them. But 3:51:56.160 --> 3:51:58.760 like you know, it's it's obvious that like there is 3:51:58.840 --> 3:52:01.440 not many cases at all where there's being you know, 3:52:01.600 --> 3:52:04.280 like genital surgery done on miners, like if that does 3:52:04.400 --> 3:52:06.480 that does not happen. Um, it can happen for like 3:52:06.640 --> 3:52:09.240 medical like that can happen for medically necessary reasons, like 3:52:09.520 --> 3:52:11.680 if there's like accidents and stuff, but that doesn't happen 3:52:11.800 --> 3:52:14.520 for gender affirming care. What happens is you get on 3:52:14.680 --> 3:52:17.120 you you you go on puberty blockers, which are already 3:52:17.120 --> 3:52:19.920 prescribed to assist gender kids all the time. Um, if 3:52:19.960 --> 3:52:22.640 they have early onset puberty, they have no lasting side effects, 3:52:22.640 --> 3:52:26.400 they're completely safe. Um And in some cases, depending on 3:52:26.520 --> 3:52:29.440 the kids therapists and their doctors, they may be prescribed 3:52:29.560 --> 3:52:32.440 HRT or they will be prescribed that a bit later. 3:52:32.560 --> 3:52:34.120 But that is that even still, that is that is 3:52:34.160 --> 3:52:36.640 really the only things that happened, um, And what they're 3:52:36.760 --> 3:52:40.200 trying to suppress is both but both of like those things, 3:52:40.240 --> 3:52:42.520 but also like the ability for like therapists to even 3:52:42.520 --> 3:52:45.040 talk about gender with kids, Like if kids are having 3:52:45.120 --> 3:52:48.160 problems with with like with gender dysphoria, they don't feel 3:52:48.200 --> 3:52:50.880 comfortable to even have to not even be able to 3:52:50.960 --> 3:52:52.960 talk to that to talk talking about those feelings with 3:52:53.040 --> 3:52:55.040 therapists is like part is part of the goal because 3:52:55.040 --> 3:52:58.960 that can be considered gender affirming care. Um. I think 3:52:59.000 --> 3:53:00.600 that there's this point of the thing they should mention, 3:53:00.680 --> 3:53:03.880 which is that so there there is one kind like 3:53:03.960 --> 3:53:05.680 one that is the few, but there's there there's a 3:53:05.760 --> 3:53:09.960 very important kind of like quote unquote like gender surgery 3:53:10.040 --> 3:53:11.640 that is done on children, which is the stuff that's 3:53:11.680 --> 3:53:15.360 on to intersext kids. Yes, I mean sex kids. Yeah. Also, 3:53:15.440 --> 3:53:19.200 like circumcisions are already like yeah, but I mean with 3:53:19.400 --> 3:53:21.720 with specific with intersex kids. This stuff matters because all 3:53:21.760 --> 3:53:24.040 of these bills that you're talking about, it's like, oh, 3:53:24.120 --> 3:53:27.120 you can't have gender affirming surgery, you can't have like 3:53:27.240 --> 3:53:29.560 surgery and kids. Like every single one of these bills 3:53:29.960 --> 3:53:32.000 like that, they all have they all specifically have card 3:53:32.240 --> 3:53:35.800 carve outs to allow doctors to funk up the generals 3:53:35.840 --> 3:53:39.400 of interseex kids. Yeah, that's it's it's all carved out there. 3:53:39.520 --> 3:53:43.160 So yeah, well let's say we we are we are 3:53:43.320 --> 3:53:46.000 near the last we are we're near the last little 3:53:46.000 --> 3:53:49.520 stretch here. Um. On March eleventh, a Texas state court 3:53:50.000 --> 3:53:53.200 halted the new Department of Family Protective Services policy of 3:53:53.280 --> 3:53:58.160 investigating the parents of transgender children. Um District District Judge 3:53:58.280 --> 3:54:03.120 Amy mentioned conclude On concluded the hearing on the requested 3:54:03.160 --> 3:54:06.960 statewide injunction by saying, quote, the Governor's directive was given 3:54:07.040 --> 3:54:10.720 the effect of new law or new agency rule despite 3:54:10.760 --> 3:54:14.960 there being no new legislation, regulation, or even agency policy. 3:54:15.480 --> 3:54:18.320 Texas Governor Greg Abbott and Department of Family Protective Services 3:54:18.400 --> 3:54:21.960 Commissioner Baby Masters of their actions violate the separation of 3:54:22.040 --> 3:54:27.840 powers by impermissibly approaching into the legislative domain. UM. Judge 3:54:27.920 --> 3:54:31.160 Mention also granted a temporary restraining order blocking the state 3:54:31.200 --> 3:54:35.240 from investigating the family that that that prompted this lawsuit 3:54:35.280 --> 3:54:37.640 from happening from the from the person who already worked 3:54:38.160 --> 3:54:43.160 at the Department of a Family Protective Services UM. Texas 3:54:43.200 --> 3:54:48.920 Attorney General Kent Pactonum appealed this decision. Well, first of all, 3:54:49.120 --> 3:54:53.800 he appealed the restraining order and lost that appeal. UM. 3:54:54.920 --> 3:54:57.720 And and the s l U is trying to make 3:54:57.800 --> 3:55:00.840 this temporaries training order against the state permanent and extend 3:55:00.920 --> 3:55:04.120 to all parents of all transgender kids in Texas. And 3:55:04.160 --> 3:55:06.120 there's there's gonna be a whole trial scheduled for this 3:55:06.760 --> 3:55:10.040 topic on July eleven, two. So this is gonna this 3:55:10.160 --> 3:55:12.520 is gonna get this is gonna happen like where where 3:55:12.600 --> 3:55:14.160 we will figure out what is going to happen with 3:55:14.240 --> 3:55:17.520 this later on this year. Um. And after the judges 3:55:17.640 --> 3:55:21.080 ruling halting the investigations due to lack of legal binding 3:55:21.600 --> 3:55:25.560 um at Turney, General Ken Paxton filed an appeal for 3:55:25.840 --> 3:55:30.160 for for the ruling. So and that's so, so that's 3:55:30.280 --> 3:55:33.920 that's gonna get appealed, um and he he tweeted out 3:55:33.960 --> 3:55:37.840 that the quote Democratic judges order permitting child abuse is frozen. 3:55:38.200 --> 3:55:41.160 Much needed investigations will proceed as they should. The fight 3:55:41.200 --> 3:55:44.080 will continue up to the Supreme Court. I'm ready for it, um. 3:55:44.360 --> 3:55:46.920 But it's unclear how much legal backing this actually has. 3:55:47.080 --> 3:55:49.880 So we don't know if if the if the off 3:55:49.960 --> 3:55:53.840 the protective Services actually has permission to keep investigating or not. 3:55:54.120 --> 3:55:57.200 It is kind of unclear. Paxton says that they can this, 3:55:57.520 --> 3:56:01.560 this state judge says they can't, and that's kind of 3:56:01.680 --> 3:56:03.320 legally up in the air right now. So we don't 3:56:03.400 --> 3:56:05.720 totally know. But there's gonna be a whole trial on 3:56:05.800 --> 3:56:09.440 the topic in July. UM. Kind of one of the 3:56:09.520 --> 3:56:12.240 last things I want to mention is, uh, this this 3:56:12.440 --> 3:56:15.280 Idaho bill that was passed by the House of Representatives 3:56:15.720 --> 3:56:19.160 that would that would criminalize gender affirming medical procedures, including 3:56:19.200 --> 3:56:23.840 property blocker, sorry, including puberty blockers an HRT for any 3:56:23.920 --> 3:56:27.040 kind of trans transgend gender youth. And it was also 3:56:27.080 --> 3:56:29.640 reported that the bill would make it a felony punishable 3:56:29.760 --> 3:56:32.640 by life imprisonment to anyone who helps a kid travel 3:56:32.720 --> 3:56:36.120 across state lines to get gender affirming healthcare. But this 3:56:36.240 --> 3:56:39.680 actually maybe isn't actually true, Like this actually probably wasn't 3:56:39.680 --> 3:56:42.640 a part of that bill. Um. The bill just amend's 3:56:42.800 --> 3:56:46.840 current laws regarding female general mutilation of course of carving 3:56:46.880 --> 3:56:50.320 out a specific section to allow the mutilation of intersext 3:56:50.400 --> 3:56:54.640 kits um. But uh, but yeah, it added a section 3:56:54.760 --> 3:56:58.400 also criminalizing gender affirming care. Um. But the section of 3:56:58.440 --> 3:57:00.360 the bill making it a felony to try out of 3:57:00.440 --> 3:57:05.560 state only refers to the general mutilation section. Um. It 3:57:05.640 --> 3:57:08.720 doesn't refer to the gender firming care section. And it's 3:57:08.800 --> 3:57:11.520 unclear if that was an oversight, um or if the 3:57:11.560 --> 3:57:16.440 limitation was intentional. Who knows, um. But it still did 3:57:16.480 --> 3:57:18.720 attempt to criminalize gender firm me care within the state. 3:57:19.320 --> 3:57:23.160 The bill was I believe I think earlier this morning 3:57:23.320 --> 3:57:26.160 as of time time of recording, the bill was not 3:57:26.400 --> 3:57:30.880 passed by the Senate. Um, so that's good. Uh. They 3:57:30.960 --> 3:57:33.920 said the Senate that it was too vague in scope 3:57:34.160 --> 3:57:36.000 and it was unclear how it was going to be enforced. 3:57:36.280 --> 3:57:39.040 So that bill was halted and it did not did 3:57:39.080 --> 3:57:45.640 not continue. Um. Yeah, but you know that's yeah. There 3:57:45.760 --> 3:57:47.280 is a lot of the reason why all stuff has 3:57:47.360 --> 3:57:49.320 kind of started is that, like there has been so 3:57:49.400 --> 3:57:52.280 much progress happening in queer rights in the past like 3:57:52.360 --> 3:57:56.040 ten years, right, Um, So now because the progress is 3:57:56.120 --> 3:57:58.760 more visible, what was once like obvious but like low 3:57:58.840 --> 3:58:01.560 key bigotry is trying to be put into law. Right. 3:58:01.640 --> 3:58:04.600 There's there's there used to be so many medical hoops 3:58:04.600 --> 3:58:06.840 to jump through to get any type of gender affirming treatment, 3:58:07.240 --> 3:58:11.040 but now almost every like legit medical organization recognizes the 3:58:11.080 --> 3:58:14.920 importance of gender affirming care. So that plus the visibility 3:58:15.040 --> 3:58:18.400 and the cultural acceptance of queerness is making some you know, 3:58:18.600 --> 3:58:22.760 mostly good old white Christian conservative populations a little bit uncomfortable. Right. 3:58:22.880 --> 3:58:26.280 There's there's this increasing fear that what if your kid 3:58:26.440 --> 3:58:28.960 thinks they're trans, well, what if what if they become 3:58:29.000 --> 3:58:31.680 an unholy degenerate what if and what if there are 3:58:31.760 --> 3:58:34.760 people trying to make that happen on purpose. Right, all 3:58:34.840 --> 3:58:37.880 of the brutality, all of like, all of the brutality 3:58:37.960 --> 3:58:40.760 in these bills, the kind of the not like the 3:58:41.120 --> 3:58:43.880 total nonchalance at the possibility of you know, kids killing 3:58:43.920 --> 3:58:46.960 themselves because of this bill and because of all these legislations, 3:58:47.000 --> 3:58:50.440 like all of the transphobia negatively contributing to mental health. 3:58:50.760 --> 3:58:53.560 All that brutality is just justified in the minds of 3:58:53.640 --> 3:58:57.000 these anti trans like people because it's to save that 3:58:57.120 --> 3:58:59.080 it's to save their kids from experiencing that in the 3:58:59.120 --> 3:59:01.800 first place. Right, it's the idea that queerness is an infection, 3:59:01.880 --> 3:59:03.640 that it can spread from person to person. It's like 3:59:03.720 --> 3:59:06.320 it's a it's it's like a contagion. If you hear 3:59:06.320 --> 3:59:09.880 about it, you could yourself become gay. So they don't 3:59:09.920 --> 3:59:11.840 hear about it, then that's not going to be a possibility. 3:59:12.040 --> 3:59:15.200 So all all of the brutality, it's like it's it's 3:59:15.280 --> 3:59:18.240 it's it's both the point, but it's also justified because 3:59:18.320 --> 3:59:20.440 this thing is seen as such like an it's seeing 3:59:20.440 --> 3:59:23.040 as such an ontological threat to their whole idea of 3:59:23.280 --> 3:59:28.240 like the world. So yeah, that's uh, and it's I mean, 3:59:28.240 --> 3:59:31.640 it's it's not gonna stop right every you know, one, 3:59:31.760 --> 3:59:34.560 we saw a massive increase in legislation on this topic. 3:59:35.600 --> 3:59:38.400 Two we're seeing an even bigger increased in legislation on 3:59:38.480 --> 3:59:42.240 this topic, and you know, attempts to physically oppose it. 3:59:42.440 --> 3:59:45.640 You know, it's our can can kind of be done. 3:59:45.640 --> 3:59:47.880 I mean, like you can you can see all there 3:59:48.000 --> 3:59:50.800 was some some successful kind of protests to the whole 3:59:50.920 --> 3:59:54.240 school board thing. You can also, like you can sneak 3:59:54.400 --> 3:59:56.520 queer books into libraries, so you can just put you 3:59:56.560 --> 3:59:59.160 can just put them in there. Um, you can request 3:59:59.400 --> 4:00:02.920 queer books in your library systems. Um. You can you know, 4:00:02.960 --> 4:00:05.680 attend school board meetings. And again it's sure that the 4:00:05.760 --> 4:00:09.560 institution of the Institution of schooling is problematic um in 4:00:09.600 --> 4:00:12.400 a lot of ways, but it's we shouldn't make it 4:00:12.480 --> 4:00:14.680 worse for queer kids. So maybe it's still is worth 4:00:14.680 --> 4:00:17.480 actually focusing on. And there's there's a lot like you know, 4:00:17.640 --> 4:00:19.280 you can, like like in the case of the a 4:00:19.360 --> 4:00:21.880 sil U suit, there is legal challenges being taken up 4:00:21.920 --> 4:00:24.360 against all of these things. We'll see how that goes. 4:00:25.240 --> 4:00:27.960 The There's always been a there's always been a shaky 4:00:28.000 --> 4:00:31.160 record of the legal you know of like the court's 4:00:31.200 --> 4:00:34.120 ability to protect these rights. But every once in a 4:00:34.160 --> 4:00:37.160 while it does happen, like with like with gay marriage. UM. 4:00:38.120 --> 4:00:40.280 The last thing I'll mention with like specifically with like 4:00:40.480 --> 4:00:43.240 HRT being made illegal in a lot of these places, 4:00:43.280 --> 4:00:46.040 at least like prescribed vida doctor UM. I will kind 4:00:46.080 --> 4:00:48.720 of talk about. I will mention um d I y 4:00:49.240 --> 4:00:51.080 HRT as the thing that that that is the thing, 4:00:51.120 --> 4:00:53.720 it exists. You can go to d I y HRT 4:00:53.920 --> 4:00:57.280 dot get hub dot io to get information on this. 4:00:58.000 --> 4:01:00.440 It's been It requires a lot of like search, but 4:01:00.560 --> 4:01:03.440 you can find like you can get You can get 4:01:03.480 --> 4:01:07.560 like estrogen and stuff from like like made by the 4:01:07.640 --> 4:01:10.880 companies that that supply pharmacies. You can buy that legally. UM. 4:01:10.920 --> 4:01:13.560 Testosterones a little bit more iffy because that is I 4:01:13.600 --> 4:01:16.840 think that it's like a schedule tour scheduled three drug UM. 4:01:17.240 --> 4:01:20.960 But estrogen is much more available UM to buy legally online. 4:01:21.080 --> 4:01:22.760 To just make sure you get it from a good 4:01:22.920 --> 4:01:25.000 place and make sure that you you know, know how 4:01:25.040 --> 4:01:27.160 it affects you and all that stuff, like do lots 4:01:27.200 --> 4:01:30.280 of reading. But that is a possibility. So I will 4:01:30.280 --> 4:01:32.120 probably plan an episode on d A Y h R 4:01:32.200 --> 4:01:34.960 T in the near future. Just it's like a whole 4:01:34.960 --> 4:01:36.640 episode on the topic, but I just wanted to kind 4:01:36.680 --> 4:01:38.000 of mention that as one of the last things that 4:01:38.120 --> 4:01:40.320 being like, yeah, if they're restricting all these stuff, we 4:01:40.360 --> 4:01:44.720 should probably you know, learn to provided ourselves because there's 4:01:44.760 --> 4:01:46.920 no guarantee that the governments or any kind of even 4:01:46.920 --> 4:01:48.760 like pharmacies will be able to do that forever. Right, Like, 4:01:48.880 --> 4:01:52.720 it's it's good to have alternative methods of figuring out 4:01:52.800 --> 4:01:55.320 how to get the drugs that make you feel nice. 4:01:56.560 --> 4:01:59.760 So yeah, that was that is my episode on the 4:02:00.200 --> 4:02:03.240 on the legislation that has been happening in the past, 4:02:03.400 --> 4:02:08.640 in the past really like six months. Um, yeah, that's fun. Yeah, 4:02:08.840 --> 4:02:10.960 but by the time this is there, there might there 4:02:11.040 --> 4:02:13.840 might be new stuff that has happened. Oh, most certainly. 4:02:14.200 --> 4:02:18.280 Yeah that's good. That's why when you know, when all 4:02:18.320 --> 4:02:20.360 this stuff gets very depressing, I just like listening to 4:02:20.480 --> 4:02:23.480 my favorite Wayne Cohen's song by Pink Floyd and it 4:02:23.600 --> 4:02:28.320 really just really does held me down and you feel 4:02:28.400 --> 4:02:32.560 much better. Wow. Well, I'm gonna go listen to the 4:02:32.640 --> 4:02:37.520 new uh double album that A hundred Guecks did with 4:02:37.640 --> 4:02:41.280 Billy Joel I do I do love me someone hundred 4:02:41.320 --> 4:02:45.960 gus mhmm, yeah, the Gecks Joel concert. It's even I 4:02:46.360 --> 4:02:48.360 hear that that Elton John is going to get into 4:02:48.600 --> 4:02:51.400 and they're gonna they're gonna do That would be quite 4:02:51.440 --> 4:02:55.280 this show. Honestly, that would would be a fascinating experience. 4:02:56.400 --> 4:03:00.480 That would be a very mix of like any women 4:03:00.520 --> 4:03:09.440 in their sixties and horny seventeen year olds. What happens? Well, yeah, 4:03:09.640 --> 4:03:12.560 that is Ah, there are plenty of organizations that are 4:03:12.640 --> 4:03:14.960 you know, fighting against and stuff in Texas. Um. I 4:03:15.080 --> 4:03:18.200 could list them, but honestly, if you if you if 4:03:18.200 --> 4:03:21.200 you're not there, it's it's it's if you mean you 4:03:21.200 --> 4:03:23.280 should you should. You should look into what's happening in 4:03:23.360 --> 4:03:26.400 your area. Learn what legislation is being passed in your area, 4:03:26.800 --> 4:03:30.520 learn what your you know representatives are doing, and look 4:03:30.600 --> 4:03:34.160 into helping people get the turkey. That's really that's really. 4:03:34.400 --> 4:03:36.800 I mean, like, if there's a way that bodybuilders can 4:03:36.840 --> 4:03:39.000 get testosterone, there's a way that you can get testosterone 4:03:39.040 --> 4:03:43.000 for transguise. If estrogen is much easier to get, um, 4:03:43.440 --> 4:03:47.120 so look into that, don't don't, don't be stupid. Um, 4:03:47.600 --> 4:03:51.080 But yeah, that is a. That's that is, that is 4:03:51.280 --> 4:03:54.840 that is my piece. Find joy, find violence and find 4:03:54.920 --> 4:03:57.000 the correct application of the two that allows people to 4:03:57.040 --> 4:04:03.880 stay alive. Yeah yeah, and uh yeah and uh listen 4:04:03.960 --> 4:04:06.840 to listen to music that makes you happy. That is 4:04:06.960 --> 4:04:09.080 that is that is all you can do. All you 4:04:09.200 --> 4:04:13.840 can all all you can do, yeah is find your 4:04:13.880 --> 4:04:19.160 favorite YouTube album. Uh featuring Roger Waters. All right, goodbye, 4:04:33.120 --> 4:04:40.560 oh boy, welcome to America. The podcast? Wait is that 4:04:40.800 --> 4:04:42.800 is that what we're calling it now? I don't think 4:04:42.840 --> 4:04:45.720 that's true. We just had like two episodes on international 4:04:45.800 --> 4:04:47.680 tours that think we are going to we're trying to 4:04:47.760 --> 4:04:50.400 be a little beyond America. I fucked it up. I 4:04:50.560 --> 4:04:57.600 fucked it up. Well that's the podcast. Goodbye everybody. See 4:04:57.720 --> 4:05:01.520 Usually at this point you say, Garrison take over. All right, 4:05:01.600 --> 4:05:03.360 well let's let's get into this. What are we talking 4:05:03.400 --> 4:05:06.040 about today? Who are we? Where are we? What is life? 4:05:06.240 --> 4:05:09.480 Where it could happen? Here? Where is God? Final episode 4:05:09.640 --> 4:05:12.120 of the war on transpeople? Which means when this episode, 4:05:12.240 --> 4:05:14.040 when this episode is done, that means the war will 4:05:14.080 --> 4:05:16.960 be over. We did at everybody and whatever God's once were, 4:05:17.040 --> 4:05:19.560 if long abandoned this place, we did get pretty good 4:05:19.640 --> 4:05:24.560 news about the governor of Utah kind of surprising me here. 4:05:25.440 --> 4:05:30.040 Uh yeah, that just hit. That's nice. There's the there's that. 4:05:30.440 --> 4:05:32.920 I mean, luckily, looks some of some of the bills 4:05:32.920 --> 4:05:34.720 that we've talked about actually have been shut down at 4:05:34.760 --> 4:05:38.240 this Pointisconsin bill got shut got got kind of down 4:05:38.720 --> 4:05:42.800 surprisingly and in very very recently, like yeah, the past 4:05:42.840 --> 4:05:46.640 few days. Yeah, there's a looks like there's still going 4:05:46.720 --> 4:05:50.320 to be injunctions on any investigations in Texas until the 4:05:50.480 --> 4:05:54.120 case gets put up. That's still very much in the air. Yeah, 4:05:54.320 --> 4:05:55.920 it's it's it's still in the courts, but it's like 4:05:56.160 --> 4:05:58.360 it's it's trying. It's at least it's kind of paused 4:05:58.440 --> 4:06:01.000 right now, and it's going they get settled at some 4:06:01.200 --> 4:06:05.120 point in either the lawsuit or in higher courts. So 4:06:05.280 --> 4:06:07.400 we'll see, we'll see how that develops. But for right now, 4:06:07.480 --> 4:06:10.040 it seems some things seem to be paused and some 4:06:10.240 --> 4:06:12.360 states are not are not fully passing it. I know 4:06:12.520 --> 4:06:18.800 there was a walkout by Disney employees today about over 4:06:18.880 --> 4:06:20.840 there don't say gay bill, and we're gonna see if 4:06:20.880 --> 4:06:24.520 that's gonna get signed. Um So, yeah, still still up 4:06:24.560 --> 4:06:26.400 in the air, but we're gonna be talking about something 4:06:26.440 --> 4:06:28.760 a little bit different. We're gonna do some We're gonna 4:06:28.800 --> 4:06:34.520 do some time travel. Oh boy, that's that's what I 4:06:34.760 --> 4:06:37.840 had to say. So we're going We're going to go 4:06:37.960 --> 4:06:40.600 back to another time in which there was a for 4:06:40.680 --> 4:06:45.000 a very brief period, a massive expansion in the knowledge 4:06:45.080 --> 4:06:49.160 about and sort of but both knowledge about and appearance 4:06:49.280 --> 4:06:52.080 of and safety of trans people. And then it all 4:06:52.200 --> 4:06:56.200 catatrophically came crashing down. Oh good. And to help us 4:06:56.240 --> 4:07:01.480 with that is Robern Evidence, my boss. Hi, everybody, how 4:07:01.520 --> 4:07:05.880 are we doing, Garrison? How? How how are we doing? Oh? 4:07:06.000 --> 4:07:08.840 I'm doing actually flying, I'm just I'm just waiting for 4:07:08.880 --> 4:07:11.080 you to do your job, but not passing over all. Right. 4:07:11.480 --> 4:07:14.480 So the important thing to understand is that like the 4:07:14.800 --> 4:07:19.240 kind of very concept of not just gay rights, but 4:07:19.400 --> 4:07:22.840 like our our modern attitudes towards like what it means 4:07:23.000 --> 4:07:27.840 to be homosexual and trans all have their origins in 4:07:28.000 --> 4:07:31.440 Germany in the not not just in the post war period, 4:07:31.480 --> 4:07:36.080 but really the last couple of decades of the Kaiser 4:07:36.480 --> 4:07:38.800 and the Weimar Republic. Like that is where kind of 4:07:38.880 --> 4:07:42.120 the modern Western attitudes towards what it like is to 4:07:42.320 --> 4:07:47.760 be homosexual really get formed because obviously, like gay people 4:07:47.880 --> 4:07:51.000 have existed for forever, there's quite a bit of documentation. 4:07:51.360 --> 4:07:53.160 But if you look at like, for example, you know, 4:07:53.240 --> 4:07:55.960 to spirit folks within some Indigenous American cultures, that's a 4:07:56.040 --> 4:08:00.920 very different attitude towards um, like what trans people I 4:08:01.000 --> 4:08:05.240 suppose to the Western exactly. Yeah, so this is like 4:08:05.360 --> 4:08:08.320 they're there's Western quote unquote you know whatever. Yeah, there's 4:08:08.360 --> 4:08:10.280 the actual thing that's going on, and like the the 4:08:10.360 --> 4:08:13.560 individual sexuality, and then there's kind of the the public 4:08:13.920 --> 4:08:17.680 concept of what it is um and and that is 4:08:17.880 --> 4:08:21.880 really forming in probably the seminal moment that kind of 4:08:21.960 --> 4:08:25.560 starts this progress, as in August eighteen sixty seven, when 4:08:25.600 --> 4:08:28.800 a lawyer named Karl Heinrich Rix goes before the sixth 4:08:28.840 --> 4:08:32.520 Congress of German jurists in munich Um to urge them 4:08:32.560 --> 4:08:36.200 to repeal laws forbidding sex between men. So again there 4:08:36.320 --> 4:08:39.160 is still a Kaiser and like this is this is 4:08:39.280 --> 4:08:43.400 before Germany is actually fully a nation, right because eighteen 4:08:43.440 --> 4:08:47.120 seventies when that happens, so Germany doesn't even really exist 4:08:47.200 --> 4:08:50.120 at this point. There's a series of like kings kind 4:08:50.160 --> 4:08:53.320 of being welded together slowly into a German state. And 4:08:53.440 --> 4:08:55.560 there is a lawyer getting up in front of like 4:08:55.720 --> 4:08:59.160 the council of different German jurists to urge an into 4:08:59.280 --> 4:09:01.600 the laws that get illegal for for men to have 4:09:01.680 --> 4:09:03.200 sex with each other. And one thing that's important to 4:09:03.240 --> 4:09:06.680 notice that obviously there are lesbians in this period of time, 4:09:06.680 --> 4:09:09.160 as again there have been throughout all of history. That's 4:09:09.160 --> 4:09:11.480 not really a legal problem, right, they do not face 4:09:11.640 --> 4:09:15.080 really legal repression and and I mean not to say 4:09:15.160 --> 4:09:17.240 that like there's not repression and things that they're dealing with, 4:09:17.320 --> 4:09:19.600 but it's not the same as as it is for 4:09:19.720 --> 4:09:22.520 like men who want to be in relationships with men. 4:09:22.640 --> 4:09:25.160 That's it's in fact a lot easier for women to 4:09:25.320 --> 4:09:27.520 be kind of like and this is not just Germany 4:09:27.760 --> 4:09:30.600 to be built to like kind of say like fends 4:09:30.640 --> 4:09:32.960 and we lived together right, like we're a tease and 4:09:33.040 --> 4:09:37.000 we live together like where. Yeah, that that because in 4:09:37.080 --> 4:09:39.080 part because men, just like I think a lot of 4:09:39.200 --> 4:09:41.400 like the men in this period just assume it's impossible 4:09:41.600 --> 4:09:44.920 like that women would do that or or the other 4:09:44.960 --> 4:09:48.240 side of it is like femininity is always presentuary, it's 4:09:48.240 --> 4:09:50.320 always like it's you as soon as a beauty symbol. 4:09:50.360 --> 4:09:51.920 So it makes more sense for women to find other 4:09:51.960 --> 4:09:55.680 women attractive, because that's what beauty is, is when is 4:09:55.720 --> 4:09:59.200 performative of femininity. So like that's like way more obvious 4:09:59.280 --> 4:10:01.160 and it doesn't make sense for but and it makes 4:10:01.240 --> 4:10:03.640 less sense for men to find other men attractive, and 4:10:03.720 --> 4:10:06.240 that's way more taboo because of the way that messages 4:10:06.280 --> 4:10:09.360 with like patriarchy. Um, so yeah, I think there could 4:10:09.400 --> 4:10:11.680 be a very like gender studies and sexuality studies, you 4:10:11.720 --> 4:10:14.320 can have a lot of theorizing for how this has developed. 4:10:14.440 --> 4:10:16.120 But yeah, this this idea you can even see in 4:10:16.160 --> 4:10:18.920 like Victorian era and like reruna assance sera of yeah, 4:10:19.080 --> 4:10:22.680 women who lived together and are very good friends, very 4:10:22.840 --> 4:10:25.880 very very close friends. I hope people don't feel like 4:10:25.960 --> 4:10:29.280 I'm trying to like flatten the history of like the 4:10:29.560 --> 4:10:32.400 concept of being a lesbian in the West to to 4:10:32.840 --> 4:10:34.960 that at all, or trying, for that matter, flattened like 4:10:35.760 --> 4:10:39.200 homosexuality between men. But I am kind of making the point, 4:10:39.280 --> 4:10:41.680 and I am not the person who are kind of 4:10:41.960 --> 4:10:44.480 initially made this point. The scholarly work that I'm kind 4:10:44.520 --> 4:10:48.320 of basing my research on this on largely right now, 4:10:48.360 --> 4:10:50.440 and we're going to do an episode Behind the Bastards 4:10:50.480 --> 4:10:52.480 that gets in two more of this, I think in 4:10:52.520 --> 4:10:54.920 the near future. But it's a called gaber Lynn by 4:10:55.120 --> 4:10:58.120 Robert Baccy um And in the book, one of the 4:10:58.160 --> 4:11:01.680 things that Beach argues is that even though obviously same 4:11:01.720 --> 4:11:04.480 sex love is as old as the existence of quite 4:11:04.480 --> 4:11:07.400 a bit older actually than the existence of human beings, um, 4:11:07.640 --> 4:11:11.320 the public discourse around it and like the political attempt 4:11:11.400 --> 4:11:14.680 to win rights for gay people starts in Germany in 4:11:14.720 --> 4:11:17.080 the late eighteen hundreds, and it starts in this conference 4:11:17.400 --> 4:11:21.200 in eighteen sixty seven. Um. And and the guy who 4:11:21.280 --> 4:11:24.200 does this RIX is a number one, is a gay man. Um. 4:11:24.840 --> 4:11:26.880 And he had he had been open kind of to 4:11:27.120 --> 4:11:29.880 his relatives. He had started in the period before he 4:11:29.920 --> 4:11:31.480 gets up in front of all these lawyers to be 4:11:31.520 --> 4:11:34.720 open with like his family members that he was homosexual. Um. 4:11:35.640 --> 4:11:38.720 But he had never like, he was not publicly out. 4:11:39.080 --> 4:11:41.480 And so on the same day that he appeals for 4:11:41.680 --> 4:11:44.800 a change in the legal code to make homosexuality legal 4:11:44.960 --> 4:11:47.520 in the German States is the day he comes out 4:11:47.600 --> 4:11:49.720 publicly as a gay man. Like. He does both of 4:11:49.800 --> 4:11:52.920 these things at the same time. And I want from 4:11:52.920 --> 4:11:59.720 a New York Yeah, it's quite a moment. Um. I 4:11:59.760 --> 4:12:01.560 want to read a quote from a New Yorker article 4:12:01.640 --> 4:12:03.560 that's covering all of this, and that's based again on 4:12:03.640 --> 4:12:06.360 the book Gay Berlin quote. He faced an audience of 4:12:06.400 --> 4:12:08.960 more than five hundred distinguished legal figures, and as he 4:12:09.080 --> 4:12:10.960 walked to the lectern, he felt a pang of fear. 4:12:11.280 --> 4:12:13.880 There was still time to keep silent, he later remembered 4:12:13.920 --> 4:12:16.120 telling himself, then there will be an end to all 4:12:16.160 --> 4:12:19.360 your heart pounding. But Rix, who had earlier disclosed the 4:12:19.440 --> 4:12:22.000 same sex desires and letters to relatives, did not stop. 4:12:22.280 --> 4:12:24.840 He told the assembly that people with a sexual nature 4:12:24.920 --> 4:12:28.800 opposed to common custom were being persecuted for impulses that nature, 4:12:29.040 --> 4:12:33.560 mysteriously governing and creating, had implanted in them. Pandemonium erupted 4:12:33.760 --> 4:12:36.520 and Rix was forced to cut short his remarks. Still 4:12:36.600 --> 4:12:39.360 he had an effect. A few liberal minded colleagues accepted 4:12:39.440 --> 4:12:42.280 his notion of an innate gay identity, and a Bavarian 4:12:42.320 --> 4:12:45.920 official privately confessed to similar yearnings, and a pamphlet titled 4:12:46.000 --> 4:12:50.000 Gladius Furens or Raging Sword or Rix wrote, I am 4:12:50.080 --> 4:12:52.400 proud that I found the strength to thrust the first 4:12:52.520 --> 4:12:57.280 lance into the flank of the hydra of publican. I 4:12:57.440 --> 4:13:03.240 feel like that sometimes funny, incredibly Wow, what if there's 4:13:03.240 --> 4:13:05.320 a heaven. I hope this dude made it there because 4:13:05.520 --> 4:13:12.000 one absolute yeah unbelievable. Yeah so no, but like what 4:13:12.160 --> 4:13:15.640 it like like yeah, the astonished, like the astounding bravery 4:13:15.720 --> 4:13:21.120 that that takes. Um. And he's essentially the first gay 4:13:21.200 --> 4:13:26.600 activist in a modern Western political context. Um. And it's interesting, 4:13:26.760 --> 4:13:30.720 like uh within kind of the the next couple of years, 4:13:30.760 --> 4:13:33.080 things start to happen very quickly. Two years later in 4:13:33.120 --> 4:13:36.680 eighteen sixty nine, and Austrian, an Austrian writer I know 4:13:36.880 --> 4:13:39.880 right named Carl Kurt Benny UM, who is kind of 4:13:39.960 --> 4:13:42.880 fighting sodomy laws and and and sodomy laws are laws 4:13:42.960 --> 4:13:47.960 that make everything that's not like missionary position sexily targeted 4:13:47.960 --> 4:13:51.400 towards towards gay men primarily. UM. So Carl Kurt Benny 4:13:51.880 --> 4:13:54.679 create like he's the guy who invinced the term homosexuality, 4:13:55.280 --> 4:13:57.080 like like two years after this is part of his 4:13:57.200 --> 4:14:02.320 like fight against these anti sodomy laws. Um. The eighteen 4:14:02.440 --> 4:14:06.920 eighties Berlin police commissioner makes the decision to stop prosecuting 4:14:06.960 --> 4:14:10.360 gay bars UM. And in fact, not only does he 4:14:10.440 --> 4:14:13.040 stop doing this, but he starts leading tours of the 4:14:13.080 --> 4:14:15.440 gay districts in Berlin just to like show off, like, 4:14:15.560 --> 4:14:22.440 look at how it's kind of rights. Wow, yeah, what 4:14:22.560 --> 4:14:24.680 a weird picture of putting your head at least even 4:14:24.760 --> 4:14:28.160 like yeah, especially copying, like why are we arresting these people? 4:14:28.240 --> 4:14:35.320 Let's show this off? Yeah yeah. So in eighteen nineties six, 4:14:35.520 --> 4:14:39.360 the very first gay magazine starts publishing in Germany in Berlin. 4:14:39.440 --> 4:14:42.400 Really do you want to know what it's called? Of course? Why? 4:14:42.640 --> 4:14:46.360 Of course the German name is Der eigen h and 4:14:46.480 --> 4:14:51.280 that means the self owning. That's great, it's pretty, it's 4:14:51.320 --> 4:14:56.120 pretty cool. Um So the very next year, eighteen nineties seven, 4:14:56.320 --> 4:14:59.360 one of the primary heroes of the early gay rights 4:14:59.360 --> 4:15:04.720 struggle for Asian, Magnus Hirschfeld uh starts the Scientific Humanitarian Committee, 4:15:04.840 --> 4:15:08.320 which is the first organized gay rights group in Western 4:15:08.480 --> 4:15:12.040 history at least. Um So, by the start of the 4:15:12.080 --> 4:15:14.840 twentieth century, a lot of stuff is in place, right, 4:15:14.920 --> 4:15:16.520 And I think I'm even have been a little bit 4:15:16.520 --> 4:15:18.600 guilty of this in the past, of kind of focusing 4:15:18.720 --> 4:15:21.320 so much on Weimar Germany, um and all of the 4:15:21.360 --> 4:15:23.200 stuff that happens around game by rights there and how 4:15:23.280 --> 4:15:26.120 progressive it was. This is building in Germany again, we 4:15:26.200 --> 4:15:30.440 don't consider the kaiser Reich as a particularly progressive place. 4:15:30.520 --> 4:15:33.680 But all of this is happening under the Kaisers. And 4:15:34.640 --> 4:15:36.840 there's there's so many things that are happening in the 4:15:37.040 --> 4:15:40.440 eighteen nineties and the start of the nineteen hundreds that 4:15:40.600 --> 4:15:42.840 directly mirror things that are happening in the United States 4:15:42.880 --> 4:15:46.760 in the nineteen eighties. In fact, right as the century turns, um, 4:15:46.960 --> 4:15:49.200 you start getting an advocate. One of the first gay 4:15:49.280 --> 4:15:52.720 rights advocates in gay literature uses the phrase coins the 4:15:52.760 --> 4:15:56.920 phrase staying silent is death to like talk about the 4:15:57.000 --> 4:16:01.720 importance of gay literary, Yeah, which is essentially the same slogan. 4:16:03.280 --> 4:16:05.040 It's the same stuff we're talking about right now with 4:16:05.560 --> 4:16:08.120 with all of like the with with all like the 4:16:08.120 --> 4:16:11.280 book bannings taking you know, doing a massive sweep of 4:16:11.320 --> 4:16:13.640 that the past the past few years. Yeah, this is 4:16:13.800 --> 4:16:21.200 nineteen hundred, like basically that this is starting time. Um. 4:16:22.640 --> 4:16:24.760 So yeah, and there's you know, there's even there's a 4:16:24.840 --> 4:16:28.160 lot of um activists start to complain and start to 4:16:28.200 --> 4:16:30.400 try to complain both within like their own magazines and 4:16:30.480 --> 4:16:33.520 within like more public magazines about things like negative depictions 4:16:33.560 --> 4:16:36.800 of gay people in popular novels. They start to be 4:16:37.000 --> 4:16:39.520 the first arguments about whether or not it's morally right 4:16:39.600 --> 4:16:41.960 to out people who are gay but who are attached 4:16:42.000 --> 4:16:47.520 to anti gay organizations, because that starts happen. Absolutely. Um, 4:16:47.720 --> 4:16:51.640 it's it's sucking wild, how gold off, this is nothing 4:16:51.680 --> 4:16:54.320 new in the sun. Yeah, but like, but this is 4:16:54.360 --> 4:16:56.440 also like the first time it happened in these types 4:16:56.480 --> 4:17:00.120 of countries, in these societies. Yeah. Yeah, but like it 4:17:00.280 --> 4:17:02.560 is that it is so yes times a flat circle. 4:17:02.600 --> 4:17:03.960 But this is also like the first time it's happened, 4:17:03.960 --> 4:17:06.600 and it's just kind of been rehappening ever since. Then. 4:17:07.240 --> 4:17:09.600 It's important to note I didn't I didn't covers. When 4:17:09.640 --> 4:17:11.520 we start talking about Rix, well, there's a lot of 4:17:11.600 --> 4:17:14.480 people who get angry, and obviously Rix is not successful 4:17:14.520 --> 4:17:18.760 in repealing the anti homosexuality laws. Um. When he makes 4:17:18.800 --> 4:17:20.320 his speech. In addition to the people who are like 4:17:20.560 --> 4:17:23.040 yelling at him to sit down, there are like German 4:17:23.160 --> 4:17:26.120 deputies yelling no, no, no, let him continue, let him continue, 4:17:26.200 --> 4:17:28.600 like he needs to be allowed to talk. Um. So 4:17:28.760 --> 4:17:31.320 even like in this period of time, there are non 4:17:31.480 --> 4:17:34.560 gay people at a fairly high level in German politics 4:17:34.600 --> 4:17:38.120 who are like vocal allies and starting gonna become vocal 4:17:38.160 --> 4:17:44.080 allies you know. Um, yeah, it's it's it's pretty fascinating. 4:17:44.240 --> 4:17:48.280 So um, obviously World World War One happens, um doesn't 4:17:48.280 --> 4:17:52.160 go great for Germany, but you know, we we get 4:17:52.240 --> 4:17:55.560 after that the Weimar Republic, and the Weimar Republic is 4:17:56.080 --> 4:17:57.960 kind of the traditional era in which we talk a 4:17:58.040 --> 4:18:00.440 lot about, you know, gay rights starting to really move 4:18:00.520 --> 4:18:04.400 forward in significant ways. And uh so there's a lot of, um, 4:18:04.800 --> 4:18:07.600 even kind of into the early nineteen thirties, some pretty 4:18:07.640 --> 4:18:10.280 interesting things that are happening in German society and like 4:18:10.480 --> 4:18:12.680 the mainstream elements of it. There's a film called ma 4:18:12.840 --> 4:18:15.920 Chin in Uniform in nineteen thirty one, which is the 4:18:16.040 --> 4:18:20.720 first like positive portrayal of lesbians in Western cinema. Um, 4:18:21.040 --> 4:18:23.200 Like thirty one is like again we're talking like right 4:18:23.280 --> 4:18:29.000 before uh Z, the Nazis kind of kind of come around. Um, 4:18:30.400 --> 4:18:33.920 and yeah, there's these like this, This this police commissioner 4:18:33.960 --> 4:18:35.480 that we chatted about earlier. I think it's one of 4:18:35.480 --> 4:18:37.360 the people who's most interesting to me. We're gonna get 4:18:37.360 --> 4:18:39.800 to Hirshfeld a bit in in a little bit, but 4:18:39.920 --> 4:18:44.000 this this guy is named Leopold von Muerscheit Hulsheim, Um, 4:18:44.240 --> 4:18:46.680 I'm not going to get that right. But he's a 4:18:46.720 --> 4:18:49.440 big part of when we talk about gay Berlin, particularly 4:18:49.520 --> 4:18:51.440 during the Weimar years. Even though he's like during what 4:18:51.600 --> 4:18:55.760 while the Kaiser's in, He's why gay Berlin really happens 4:18:55.800 --> 4:18:58.520 in a lot of ways, um. And it's in part 4:18:58.640 --> 4:19:03.240 because like he decides to stop cracking down on on 4:19:03.400 --> 4:19:07.000 gay people, um and like he's not gay, although his 4:19:07.160 --> 4:19:09.720 boss is, which is part of like what makes it 4:19:09.840 --> 4:19:12.360 easier um for him to do this. And there's like 4:19:12.360 --> 4:19:14.360 a lot of debate about why he does this because 4:19:14.360 --> 4:19:17.280 he's not like a gay rights activist. Some people say 4:19:17.320 --> 4:19:20.600 that it's because, um, he's worried that like gay people 4:19:20.640 --> 4:19:23.440 will become politically radicalized by the Reds and so if 4:19:23.480 --> 4:19:26.000 you stop cracking down on them, they won't go communists 4:19:26.080 --> 4:19:28.120 like that. There's a lot of like debate about like 4:19:28.240 --> 4:19:31.440 why he does this. Um. He's also there's a number 4:19:31.480 --> 4:19:32.880 of things that he like, he takes a lot of 4:19:33.160 --> 4:19:36.560 data on on gay people in Berlin, and he does 4:19:36.640 --> 4:19:39.120 this on everybody. He's a big data guy, so it's 4:19:39.160 --> 4:19:44.320 not particularly uh um harmful in his era, but it's 4:19:44.400 --> 4:19:46.280 some of the stuff that he gathers will be used 4:19:46.320 --> 4:19:48.720 by the Nazis later. Um, which is kind of a 4:19:48.800 --> 4:19:51.600 broader thing about like the wisdom of not letting the 4:19:51.640 --> 4:19:53.720 government get access to this like he has. He founds 4:19:53.760 --> 4:19:56.480 a department of Homosexuals in eighteen eighty five that like 4:19:56.640 --> 4:19:59.640 lists the people that they know are gay and and 4:20:00.040 --> 4:20:02.920 in like this is all. So it's really a complicated thing. 4:20:03.040 --> 4:20:05.840 That's that's happening here because he's not he's not this 4:20:06.000 --> 4:20:09.280 like thoroughly sympathetic figure. He's doing a lot of stuff 4:20:09.760 --> 4:20:12.400 that's that's weird and that will later have negative outcomes. 4:20:12.480 --> 4:20:16.240 But he's also by ending police persecution of gay people, um, 4:20:16.320 --> 4:20:20.240 at least in an organized way, really allowing gay culture 4:20:20.400 --> 4:20:25.200 to to blossom um in Berlin. Uh. And it's it's 4:20:25.360 --> 4:20:28.600 it's yeah. I'm gonna read another quote from that New 4:20:28.680 --> 4:20:32.760 Yorker article here. For whatever reason, Mr scheit Holsenheim took 4:20:32.840 --> 4:20:35.840 a fairly benevolent attitude towards Berlin's same sex bars and 4:20:35.960 --> 4:20:37.880 dance halls, at least in the better healed parts of 4:20:37.960 --> 4:20:40.440 the city. He was on cordial terms with many regulars, 4:20:40.480 --> 4:20:44.120 and none other than Odious Strindberg testified in his autobiographical 4:20:44.200 --> 4:20:47.360 novel The Cloister which evokes the same sex costume ball 4:20:47.440 --> 4:20:51.320 at the Cafe Nationale, and this is the police inspector 4:20:51.360 --> 4:20:53.200 and his guests had seated themselves at a table in 4:20:53.240 --> 4:20:54.920 the center of one end of the room, close to 4:20:55.000 --> 4:20:57.720 which all the couples had to pass. The inspector called 4:20:57.760 --> 4:20:59.480 them by their Christian names and some in some of 4:20:59.520 --> 4:21:02.200 the most interesting among them to his table. So he's 4:21:02.280 --> 4:21:06.200 kind of like going on safari, like among the gay 4:21:06.280 --> 4:21:08.680 people in Berlin. Like there's a lot of weird it's 4:21:08.760 --> 4:21:11.440 it's weird in a lot of way. Um. But he's 4:21:11.480 --> 4:21:14.720 also one of the things he does is he provides 4:21:14.840 --> 4:21:18.000 police help to gay people who are being blackmailed and 4:21:18.080 --> 4:21:20.840 like threatened without ing um. And he'll even like counsel 4:21:20.920 --> 4:21:22.960 them on how to handle it, Like he provides like 4:21:23.040 --> 4:21:25.960 counselors and stuff. And he does this in part because 4:21:26.080 --> 4:21:30.320 like he's worried about, um, them committing suicide because they're 4:21:30.360 --> 4:21:32.600 being blackmailed, which is like a real problem in Germany 4:21:32.640 --> 4:21:36.480 in a bunch of other places. Um. Yeah, And this guy, 4:21:36.800 --> 4:21:39.760 like why this police commissioner winds up killing himself kind 4:21:39.800 --> 4:21:42.040 of in the early nineteen hundreds, I think because he 4:21:42.160 --> 4:21:45.040 wound up getting found to be taken bribes from some 4:21:45.200 --> 4:21:47.200 millionaire who gets in a lot of legal trouble for 4:21:47.320 --> 4:21:50.360 raping somebody. So again, he is a sketchy dude. But 4:21:50.440 --> 4:21:53.840 he's also like because he's he's got this weird almost 4:21:53.880 --> 4:21:58.000 like voyeuristic fascination with gay people, um and some legitimate 4:21:58.040 --> 4:22:00.960 because there are legitimate humanitarian concern he's really worried about 4:22:00.960 --> 4:22:03.800 people committing suicide as a result of blackmail. So he's 4:22:03.800 --> 4:22:06.360 one of these figures we don't talk about enough in 4:22:06.480 --> 4:22:09.240 history where it's like the overall outcome of this guy's 4:22:10.240 --> 4:22:13.720 at work is pretty positive, but he does it for 4:22:13.800 --> 4:22:17.480 this like really confusing mix of reasons. He's just a 4:22:17.720 --> 4:22:21.440 very strange figure in history. Well, I think it's interesting 4:22:21.560 --> 4:22:24.360 looking at him, like like comparing him to like if 4:22:24.360 --> 4:22:25.640 you look at like what the U. S Is doing 4:22:25.680 --> 4:22:27.600 in the fifties, right where there's this whole thing about 4:22:27.640 --> 4:22:29.200 like gay people are getting are going to get are 4:22:29.240 --> 4:22:32.040 getting blackmailed, and the you know, the the US, the 4:22:32.160 --> 4:22:35.080 entire US security state loses mind and becomes convinced that 4:22:35.200 --> 4:22:37.840 like these people are all gonna become Soviet agents, and 4:22:38.160 --> 4:22:40.600 you know, and instead of like doing counseling that there's there. 4:22:40.680 --> 4:22:43.160 The thing that they do is they they do the 4:22:43.240 --> 4:22:45.280 Levender Scare and they start purging every gay person we 4:22:45.320 --> 4:22:47.120 can find from the entire US government. And it's like, 4:22:48.040 --> 4:22:50.840 you know, it's it's it's interesting that like, yeah, this 4:22:51.000 --> 4:22:55.160 is this is a guy in like late eighteen hundreds, 4:22:55.240 --> 4:23:00.760 early nine hundreds, like like literally ruled bay on arch Berlin, 4:23:01.080 --> 4:23:04.400 and his policies are enormously better than like anything you're 4:23:04.400 --> 4:23:07.840 going to see for like half a century. He's he 4:23:08.000 --> 4:23:11.640 is way more woke on on this than like any 4:23:11.760 --> 4:23:16.560 New York police officer for a century today up up 4:23:16.600 --> 4:23:20.000 to the present day in a lot of ways. Yeah, 4:23:20.200 --> 4:23:23.640 So let's talk about Magnus Hirshfeld a bit. Um. Hirshfield 4:23:23.840 --> 4:23:26.280 is very influenced by Ulrich, the guy we started the 4:23:26.320 --> 4:23:30.120 story with. His first like publication on the matter is 4:23:30.160 --> 4:23:33.520 called Sappho and Socrates in eighteen nineties six, which is 4:23:33.560 --> 4:23:35.240 again it's a story of a gay man who gets 4:23:35.280 --> 4:23:38.640 coerced into marriage, so this like uh and who commits 4:23:38.640 --> 4:23:40.920 suicide as a result. So there's like a big with 4:23:41.120 --> 4:23:43.760 both um, you know, his police commissioner with Hirshfeld, with 4:23:43.760 --> 4:23:45.960 a lot of people who are becoming activists in this period. 4:23:46.240 --> 4:23:48.880 A big part of why is, for one reason another 4:23:49.000 --> 4:23:53.240 the suicide rate among gay people, um, which is a 4:23:53.360 --> 4:23:56.000 huge problem today for for trans people in particular. And 4:23:56.080 --> 4:23:58.960 this is what it's interesting, like that that Utah governor, 4:23:59.440 --> 4:24:02.760 you know, May the announcement today that like he's vetoing 4:24:02.880 --> 4:24:06.080 this trans sports ban in Utah, and he specifically cites 4:24:06.160 --> 4:24:09.680 like the suicide rate among trans people is so like 4:24:09.920 --> 4:24:13.920 high and it he could not morally conscience doing anything 4:24:14.000 --> 4:24:16.800 that would like make these kids feel mothered and likelier 4:24:16.840 --> 4:24:20.200 to commit suicide. I mean, okay, well let's let's let's 4:24:20.280 --> 4:24:22.440 let's not go that far. He he he was, he 4:24:22.520 --> 4:24:24.160 was willing, he was willing to do the commissions. She 4:24:24.200 --> 4:24:26.800 just wasn't willing to do a full band. Yeah. I'm 4:24:26.840 --> 4:24:29.440 just saying the the justification he gives for what he's 4:24:29.520 --> 4:24:33.240 doing is like, um, is the rate of suicide at 4:24:33.320 --> 4:24:36.480 himps among trans people. Um. Not to like whitewash that 4:24:36.560 --> 4:24:38.720 guy or Utah. Like again, we've been doing this whole 4:24:38.720 --> 4:24:41.480 week's episodes, but it's interesting that you get um again. 4:24:41.520 --> 4:24:44.120 It's just kind of like the the issue for a 4:24:44.200 --> 4:24:46.360 long time has been that when you like other people 4:24:46.520 --> 4:24:48.880 and make it dangerous for them to be who they 4:24:48.920 --> 4:24:52.480 are openly, they will kill themselves. Um, a lot of 4:24:52.520 --> 4:24:55.600 them will. And that's that's a thing that is even 4:24:55.680 --> 4:24:59.640 by very problematic people in Germany in the eighteen nineties 4:24:59.760 --> 4:25:02.880 for recognize that, like this is a huge issue. Um. 4:25:03.480 --> 4:25:07.960 So yeah, Hirschfeld um starts this first organization that's like 4:25:08.360 --> 4:25:11.160 gay rights organization. Um. And he also is doing like 4:25:11.240 --> 4:25:16.040 a huge amount of of research. Um. He is fall again, 4:25:16.080 --> 4:25:18.720 he's following in l Ric's footsteps because he too believes 4:25:18.800 --> 4:25:22.280 that that homosexuality is congenital, right, it's something you're born with, 4:25:22.440 --> 4:25:25.160 as opposed to like a choice people make because of 4:25:25.480 --> 4:25:28.160 Devans or whatever, which is still the big fight that 4:25:28.280 --> 4:25:31.080 we're having to this day. And he's also like it's 4:25:31.120 --> 4:25:33.680 hard to there's a lot that like you can criticize 4:25:33.680 --> 4:25:37.200 about Hirschfeld scientifically, and a lot of the research he does, 4:25:37.280 --> 4:25:41.000 among other things, there's like difficulty with like control groups 4:25:41.040 --> 4:25:44.720 and actually like being the kind of scientific sort of 4:25:44.840 --> 4:25:47.720 detachment that is necessary to study that. There's like critiques 4:25:48.360 --> 4:25:50.720 of his of his research that are valid. But one 4:25:50.760 --> 4:25:54.320 of the he's he's really like, it's wild how far 4:25:54.400 --> 4:25:56.200 ahead of the Curvey is because one of the things 4:25:56.280 --> 4:25:59.680 that Hirschfeld introduces is the idea that sexuality is a 4:26:00.000 --> 4:26:04.200 actrum um, where there's what he calls sexual intermediaries between 4:26:04.400 --> 4:26:07.200 male and female. Um. He doesn't believe that like those 4:26:07.200 --> 4:26:09.840 are even particularly useful terms that sexuality kind of like 4:26:10.320 --> 4:26:12.720 it it again, that it's a spectrum, which is this 4:26:12.840 --> 4:26:15.800 thing that we are just now really starting to have 4:26:16.280 --> 4:26:21.040 good wider kind of ranging conversations about today. Um. And 4:26:21.240 --> 4:26:24.200 Hirschfeld is very much like kind of utopian and his 4:26:24.320 --> 4:26:30.040 belief that if you can scientifically study and understand where 4:26:30.560 --> 4:26:33.000 homose like what homosexuality is, and that it is an 4:26:33.000 --> 4:26:36.240 innate characteristic, that people will stop being bigoted against gay 4:26:36.280 --> 4:26:38.960 folks right, Like his his belief is that science will 4:26:39.080 --> 4:26:42.200 end prejudice, um, just because the German people are so 4:26:42.360 --> 4:26:44.680 scientific and like they'll have to accept this if I 4:26:44.720 --> 4:26:50.760 could just like prove it with enough rigor, which is heartbreaking, um, 4:26:50.960 --> 4:26:55.200 heartbreaking that he was very very wrong. Um. And yeah, 4:26:55.200 --> 4:26:57.080 there's a number of things that are like really worth 4:26:57.240 --> 4:27:01.560 kind of within sort of the because he's not he's 4:27:01.600 --> 4:27:03.400 kind of come down now is this sort of um 4:27:04.240 --> 4:27:07.040 like sainting like hero of the gay rights movement for 4:27:07.120 --> 4:27:09.400 good reason, but that does tend to flatten the fact 4:27:09.440 --> 4:27:12.120 that within his his day and within kind of the 4:27:12.200 --> 4:27:14.600 gay culture in Berlin in particular, there were a lot 4:27:14.640 --> 4:27:16.760 of people who were frustrated with him for a lot 4:27:16.840 --> 4:27:20.720 of reasons. Um, there were a lot of Uh So 4:27:20.840 --> 4:27:24.040 there's this there's this split in gay culture in this 4:27:24.200 --> 4:27:27.600 period of time between um, gay men who are seen 4:27:27.680 --> 4:27:31.480 as more effeminate and what are called the masculinists. Um 4:27:31.680 --> 4:27:35.680 and the masculinists. They are not all or even mostly Nazis, 4:27:35.920 --> 4:27:39.640 but all of the gay Nazis are what you'd call masculinists, right, 4:27:39.960 --> 4:27:43.280 who are like, I'm not having like like like I 4:27:43.400 --> 4:27:45.640 am so manly that the only person I can have 4:27:45.760 --> 4:27:48.160 sex with as a man, right, Like that I'm flattening 4:27:48.240 --> 4:27:50.520 even that quite a bit. But like you have guys 4:27:50.640 --> 4:27:53.160 like um Ernst Rome, who is the head of the 4:27:53.240 --> 4:27:56.640 Brown Shirts and is is a is a gay Nazi 4:27:56.840 --> 4:27:59.080 and is like that's that's a significant, not an insignificant 4:27:59.160 --> 4:28:00.920 chunk of the Nazis. They'll murdered in the Night of 4:28:01.000 --> 4:28:04.600 Long Knives. And it is interesting that that Rome was 4:28:04.760 --> 4:28:08.160 outed by anti fascists. Yeah, he sure, like two years 4:28:08.240 --> 4:28:10.480 before he was murdered, and it was it was it 4:28:10.600 --> 4:28:13.880 was trying he was specifically outed to so division within 4:28:13.920 --> 4:28:16.720 the Nazi party. Yes, and that does like also just 4:28:16.800 --> 4:28:18.480 playing it. You know, you're you're you're talking about like, 4:28:18.840 --> 4:28:21.600 you know, people having debate over whether it's okay to 4:28:21.640 --> 4:28:24.600 out somebody, um if they you know, are part of 4:28:24.680 --> 4:28:27.880 that Organization's right. That was something we mentioned previously And yeah, 4:28:28.040 --> 4:28:32.040 just like an interesting historical tidbit. Yeah, and it's it's 4:28:32.240 --> 4:28:36.760 um so uh again amongst like, one of the things 4:28:36.840 --> 4:28:39.800 that the masculinists are doing is like a lot of 4:28:39.880 --> 4:28:42.120 them are married to women and they're they're actually fine 4:28:42.200 --> 4:28:43.800 with this because again they think that like, well you 4:28:43.880 --> 4:28:46.680 still need to like procreate and have like not it's 4:28:46.680 --> 4:28:48.960 not even all just about being having like a beard 4:28:49.040 --> 4:28:50.360 or whatever you wanna call it. Some of it is 4:28:50.400 --> 4:28:52.960 just like this attitude that you have a responsibility to 4:28:53.080 --> 4:28:55.920 make more Germans for the fatherland. But like then when 4:28:55.960 --> 4:28:58.640 it comes to it's kind of like the Greeks, they 4:28:58.680 --> 4:29:01.000 were not wildly dissimilar concepts and a lot of the 4:29:01.120 --> 4:29:05.040 masculinists ideologically are wrapped up in the work of Max S. 4:29:05.080 --> 4:29:08.400 Turner Um and in fact, like the self owners, that 4:29:08.520 --> 4:29:13.480 first gay magazine that was. I was like, oh, that 4:29:13.520 --> 4:29:15.960 sounds like stars egoism. Ye, yes, yeah, there's a lot 4:29:16.040 --> 4:29:18.280 of that going and we we we again. I went 4:29:18.320 --> 4:29:20.480 to at some point provide a lot more detail on 4:29:20.560 --> 4:29:24.000 this because it's it's all fascinating. Um. But there there 4:29:24.040 --> 4:29:26.560 are these big sort of like this big split and 4:29:26.600 --> 4:29:29.320 there's he gets a lot of ship from the masculinists 4:29:29.480 --> 4:29:32.240 for because he also studies lesbians heavily. Like there's a 4:29:32.280 --> 4:29:35.240 decent chunk of the gay male population in Berlin who's 4:29:35.280 --> 4:29:38.080 against the research in the medical practice he's doing to 4:29:38.160 --> 4:29:40.640 help trans people who was against his research on lesbians 4:29:40.640 --> 4:29:43.160 because they're like, well, this is this is the fight, right, 4:29:43.240 --> 4:29:46.160 like we're the ones who are being legally cracked down 4:29:46.240 --> 4:29:48.640 on or whatever. Like. Um. So there's a bunch of 4:29:48.760 --> 4:29:52.480 like different cleavages and fractures kind of within the community 4:29:52.560 --> 4:29:55.840 at this time in Hirschfeld is not universally beloved and 4:29:55.960 --> 4:29:58.040 there are people kind of within the gay community who 4:29:58.120 --> 4:30:00.120 have a lot of issues with him. Um. And I 4:30:00.200 --> 4:30:02.560 just think it's important to note that because we often 4:30:02.680 --> 4:30:06.680 do again kind of flattened things because the Nazis flattened things, right, 4:30:06.680 --> 4:30:08.600 because these were all it was all the same to them. 4:30:09.280 --> 4:30:12.080 Um and and we often flatten them in a different 4:30:12.160 --> 4:30:14.200 way to where like, yeah, you've got this guy and 4:30:14.320 --> 4:30:17.360 he's the he's the hero of the of the of 4:30:17.520 --> 4:30:20.520 gay Berlin, and he's this like thoroughly positive. No, there 4:30:20.560 --> 4:30:22.000 were a lot of people who hated him for like 4:30:22.080 --> 4:30:24.760 all these different reasons because this was uh, these like 4:30:24.920 --> 4:30:27.760 all people had a million different kind of fractures and 4:30:27.840 --> 4:30:32.400 ideologies sort of running within. Um what what someone who 4:30:32.600 --> 4:30:35.000 was not looking in from the outside would have just 4:30:35.080 --> 4:30:40.040 called gay Berlin, you know. Um And yeah, obviously this 4:30:40.200 --> 4:30:44.080 all falls apart or is cracked down horribly when the 4:30:44.160 --> 4:30:47.320 Nazis come to power. Um, Hirshfeld is doing a lot 4:30:47.400 --> 4:30:49.640 of some of them, I mean, all of the very 4:30:49.720 --> 4:30:52.800 earliest research on like what it is to be transgender, 4:30:52.880 --> 4:30:56.600 and he is performing surgery on like gender operations on 4:30:56.720 --> 4:31:00.320 on trans for the very first time. Um. And and 4:31:00.480 --> 4:31:04.960 that gets all kind of destroyed. In in May of 4:31:05.080 --> 4:31:07.680 nineteen thirty three, which is about three months after Hitler 4:31:07.720 --> 4:31:12.480 becomes Reich's chancellor. Uh, Nazis sack Hirschfeld Institute for Sexual Science. 4:31:12.840 --> 4:31:16.360 They burn its library. Um, they go after a lot 4:31:16.440 --> 4:31:18.400 of of of his of the people he had been 4:31:18.440 --> 4:31:21.280 working with and on are killed, others have to flee. Um. 4:31:21.400 --> 4:31:24.080 Hirschfeld is thankfully out of the country on tour when 4:31:24.120 --> 4:31:27.200 the Nazis rise to power and just you know, doesn't 4:31:27.360 --> 4:31:33.120 come back. Um he sees he watches his institute get 4:31:33.200 --> 4:31:35.280 burned and all of his his research get burned and 4:31:35.720 --> 4:31:41.360 a newsreel in Paris. Uh, and he dies the next year. Um. Yeah, 4:31:41.640 --> 4:31:47.960 So that's the that's the the broad details of kind 4:31:48.000 --> 4:31:51.160 of the story of this early period um of of 4:31:51.280 --> 4:31:53.000 the birth of kind of like a lot of our 4:31:53.160 --> 4:31:57.280 our legal fights around you know, gay rights and like 4:31:57.400 --> 4:32:00.040 the birth of kind of Western gay identity, Like this 4:32:00.160 --> 4:32:04.000 is where it comes from and and uh yeah, there's 4:32:04.000 --> 4:32:06.200 a lot that's important and understanding this. And this is 4:32:06.360 --> 4:32:09.080 one of the points that gets made in Gaberlin. We 4:32:09.200 --> 4:32:12.760 often see the Weimar years as this kind of inevitable 4:32:12.840 --> 4:32:16.080 march towards fascism, and the reality is that there was 4:32:17.680 --> 4:32:23.000 fifty something years of of incredibly progressive movements on on 4:32:23.160 --> 4:32:26.680 gender and sexuality. Um. And you know, even outside of 4:32:26.720 --> 4:32:29.200 gay rights, just in terms of like attitudes towards democracy 4:32:29.280 --> 4:32:31.680 and attitudes towards the nature of like the state, that 4:32:31.800 --> 4:32:35.360 we're very progressive and very powerful and very popular. Um. 4:32:35.880 --> 4:32:38.040 And they do get you know, it's important to understand 4:32:38.080 --> 4:32:42.160 both that, like the Nazism was not inevitable, the regressive 4:32:42.240 --> 4:32:46.680 ism and the violence and the the the like, that 4:32:47.400 --> 4:32:50.440 kind of flattening of human life under the Fascists was 4:32:50.520 --> 4:32:54.280 not an inevitable progression for Germany. Um. But it's equally 4:32:54.560 --> 4:32:57.880 important to understand that like a tremendous so much progress 4:32:57.960 --> 4:33:00.400 had been made in German culture by the of time. 4:33:00.400 --> 4:33:03.000 When the Nazis rise and it does get wiped out, 4:33:03.360 --> 4:33:06.040 you know, it does not recover right away. It's still 4:33:06.160 --> 4:33:10.560 recovering now, still now, yeah, exactly. Um. And in fact, 4:33:10.720 --> 4:33:13.920 one of the groups of people when when the Allies 4:33:14.000 --> 4:33:18.360 liberate the concentration camps, we don't free imprisoned gay people. 4:33:18.759 --> 4:33:22.640 They go back to prison because what they were doing 4:33:22.759 --> 4:33:25.800 was still seen as criminal. If you have the is 4:33:25.840 --> 4:33:29.360 the pink triangle, you don't just get out because the Nazis, 4:33:29.400 --> 4:33:31.680 because you were in a concentration gap with these other people. 4:33:31.720 --> 4:33:34.400 Because the Allies to a large extenter like well that 4:33:34.600 --> 4:33:37.879 was it was okay for them to punish those people. Anyway. 4:33:38.240 --> 4:33:42.040 That's the story. Not Another interesting thing is that kind 4:33:42.040 --> 4:33:44.160 of on the same note is that if you look 4:33:44.200 --> 4:33:49.040 through all old um German war photography from World War Two, 4:33:49.640 --> 4:33:52.560 you will actually see a higher than average rate of 4:33:53.400 --> 4:33:57.759 men cross dressing inside photos. Now, there's always cross dressing 4:33:57.840 --> 4:34:01.680 during war is not uncommon, especially during the performances for 4:34:01.800 --> 4:34:04.520 like theater and stuff, um, because there's not as much 4:34:04.560 --> 4:34:09.480 women around. But specifically comparing like the documentation of the 4:34:09.600 --> 4:34:12.840 Nazis and all of all of the German soldiers, there 4:34:12.960 --> 4:34:16.480 was like, yeah, absolutely higher than average amount of of 4:34:16.680 --> 4:34:20.560 people comfortable cross dressing despite you know, being a soldier 4:34:20.600 --> 4:34:23.800 for the Nazis. Um it is. And it's like, yeah, 4:34:23.840 --> 4:34:26.800 it's an interesting thing in terms of how how some 4:34:26.919 --> 4:34:30.280 of those kind of more advanced US and sexuality still 4:34:30.320 --> 4:34:33.480 carried over um at least like in terms of like 4:34:33.560 --> 4:34:37.480 gender presentation among you know, even even if you fear 4:34:37.520 --> 4:34:41.680 among this genocidal group who's imprisoning gay people by the 4:34:41.759 --> 4:34:44.760 hundreds of thousands. Um, it's it just it just it 4:34:44.880 --> 4:34:47.760 just it just it just like kept happening. Yeah. It 4:34:47.840 --> 4:34:51.680 also sort of points to just like how bad everywhere 4:34:51.759 --> 4:34:58.880 else was also, Yeah, like it's yeah, Berlin just got 4:34:59.000 --> 4:35:04.720 so regressive that even when suppressed, there was enough like 4:35:05.240 --> 4:35:08.840 stuff there that things could kind of there was there 4:35:09.080 --> 4:35:11.000 was still there was still a bit there's was still 4:35:11.040 --> 4:35:14.240 a bit of some remnants. Um. And I mean and 4:35:14.320 --> 4:35:16.920 it still it got it did get horribly obliterated, and 4:35:17.120 --> 4:35:19.840 and we're still recovering now in terms of our views 4:35:19.919 --> 4:35:25.199 and medical knowledge on like gender and you know, social contructs, um, susuality, 4:35:25.360 --> 4:35:27.920 you know, all all this kind of stuff. Um. But yeah, 4:35:28.000 --> 4:35:33.239 the German law code that made homosexuality illegal, um again 4:35:33.360 --> 4:35:36.720 after it was briefly more okay than it had been, 4:35:37.080 --> 4:35:41.160 doesn't get repealed until Yeah. I mean a lot of 4:35:41.320 --> 4:35:44.239 a lot of sodomy laws do not get repealed until 4:35:44.280 --> 4:35:47.240 the nineties, and a lot of cases they're actually still around, 4:35:47.440 --> 4:35:50.200 we just don't enforce them, like a lot of this, 4:35:50.320 --> 4:35:52.160 a lot of laws that are actually just still just 4:35:52.640 --> 4:35:56.360 hanging out. Texas had anti sodomy laws on the book 4:35:56.480 --> 4:36:01.320 until a two thousand three Supreme Court case, Yeah, and 4:36:01.640 --> 4:36:04.880 invalidated all sodomy laws. Right, That's that's why there's something. 4:36:04.919 --> 4:36:07.960 They're still in the books, but they but they're now invalid. Yeah, 4:36:08.120 --> 4:36:15.120 prosecute people, um yeah. Yeah. Feld was pretty based though, 4:36:15.280 --> 4:36:18.440 so it was fucking rix some pretty based this really 4:36:18.480 --> 4:36:20.320 interesting stuff and then that's why we wanted to talk 4:36:20.320 --> 4:36:23.200 about this, is to kind of show the historical background 4:36:23.280 --> 4:36:25.000 and show like there's a precedent for all of the 4:36:25.080 --> 4:36:28.880 same stuff happening before. Um, and you know, there's ways 4:36:28.919 --> 4:36:30.920 people have fought fought against it back then who didn't 4:36:30.960 --> 4:36:36.320 necessarily succeed, but also did have a lot of progression 4:36:36.400 --> 4:36:39.320 and a lot of like views socially on these types 4:36:39.360 --> 4:36:41.919 of topics. You know, you just need to make sure 4:36:41.960 --> 4:36:46.079 that you're also very very aware of of the rise 4:36:46.120 --> 4:36:48.199 of fascism and being also counter that as well, because 4:36:48.560 --> 4:36:50.000 they can just do so much damage in such a 4:36:50.040 --> 4:36:54.480 shorthort amount of time, despite you know, fifty years of progress. Yeah. Yeah, 4:36:54.560 --> 4:36:59.880 and I think I think understanding their fragility of every 4:37:00.000 --> 4:37:03.080 thing that exists that I don't know. I mean, there's 4:37:03.200 --> 4:37:04.880 this is you know, one of one of the sort 4:37:04.880 --> 4:37:07.840 of American mythosis, right is that like the moral arc 4:37:07.880 --> 4:37:10.640 of the universe bens towards progress, then everything is getting better. 4:37:10.720 --> 4:37:14.960 And that's not true. Nope, it's not. And like everyvery 4:37:15.000 --> 4:37:17.239 everything good that you see in this world is there 4:37:17.280 --> 4:37:20.600 because people fought for it. Yeah, and if they lose 4:37:20.759 --> 4:37:25.200 it all goes away. Yeah, yeah, we we we absolutely 4:37:25.280 --> 4:37:27.000 could go back. It's like you have that I mean, 4:37:27.040 --> 4:37:30.960 he back pedaled, but you have that Republican uh legislator 4:37:31.000 --> 4:37:35.520 who was like, um, making comments about how he didn't 4:37:35.600 --> 4:37:39.759 think the state should be forced to honor interracial marriages. Um. 4:37:40.919 --> 4:37:42.920 And it's like, yeah, there's people who want to go 4:37:43.040 --> 4:37:45.720 back on all of that stuff, and they could do it. 4:37:45.880 --> 4:37:48.480 It doesn't even and it doesn't matter. I like when 4:37:48.520 --> 4:37:52.120 people criticize kind of like some of the the attitudes 4:37:52.160 --> 4:37:55.200 we have, the fear we have towards this, Especially on 4:37:55.360 --> 4:37:57.400 on the subreddit, I've seen people be like, well, look, 4:37:57.640 --> 4:38:00.760 these are not popular laws, and it doesn't matter. They 4:38:00.800 --> 4:38:03.960 weren't absolutely they weren't as popular. They weren't like necessarily 4:38:04.040 --> 4:38:06.960 all that popular in in in Germany, you know, when 4:38:07.040 --> 4:38:09.120 some like a lot of the thing not specifically even 4:38:09.120 --> 4:38:11.080 talking about what was done to gay people, but a 4:38:11.120 --> 4:38:12.879 lot of the things that were done by the Nazis 4:38:13.120 --> 4:38:18.000 were not necessarily popular. It doesn't matter. What matters is power, 4:38:18.680 --> 4:38:20.880 And this like plays into how like what's is worth 4:38:20.919 --> 4:38:24.600 focusing on on electoralism and being like, yeah, these laws 4:38:24.680 --> 4:38:28.160 obviously aren't being uh pushed as far in blue states 4:38:28.200 --> 4:38:31.560 because there's not enough electoral power there, but that doesn't 4:38:31.640 --> 4:38:34.600 mean that we can flip Texas blue if we will 4:38:34.680 --> 4:38:37.600 it into being Like, there's so many other cultural factors 4:38:38.080 --> 4:38:41.000 that are keeping red states red, and yes, of course, 4:38:41.040 --> 4:38:43.800 ability suppression, all of those things, gerry mandering, all these 4:38:43.840 --> 4:38:48.080 things are contributing factors. But the overall political bent of 4:38:48.160 --> 4:38:50.840 those states right now seems to be pretty firm because 4:38:50.840 --> 4:38:53.560 there's so many people invested in maintaining that power. So 4:38:53.600 --> 4:38:56.120 when we complain about kind of how electoralism is not 4:38:56.880 --> 4:39:01.400 often a super reliable solution to securing these things over 4:39:01.440 --> 4:39:04.040 the long stretches of time, it's more kind of talking 4:39:04.120 --> 4:39:07.240 about that because even though we have you know, democrats 4:39:07.280 --> 4:39:09.600 and power in the executive branch, and they you know, 4:39:09.720 --> 4:39:12.879 make statements about trying to secure things, they make, they 4:39:12.960 --> 4:39:15.720 make some gestures, they follow through, and those things is 4:39:15.720 --> 4:39:22.640 always so minimum and so bare um, and there's it's 4:39:22.680 --> 4:39:25.680 like it's it's it's the thing that like Trump was 4:39:25.720 --> 4:39:28.560 able to do so much um and now we have 4:39:28.880 --> 4:39:33.000 Biden so less willing to use executive powers. Is the 4:39:33.080 --> 4:39:35.280 same thing that like like with with with Obama and 4:39:35.360 --> 4:39:38.440 the Supreme Court, when the Senate would refuse to put 4:39:38.520 --> 4:39:42.080 through any any candidates Obama technically had the power could 4:39:42.200 --> 4:39:44.280 because the Senate refused to do to do their job. 4:39:45.400 --> 4:39:47.600 There is a very strong argument that Obama could just 4:39:47.680 --> 4:39:50.520 put someone into the Supreme Court because of the failure 4:39:50.600 --> 4:39:52.920 of what the Senate was doing was specifically doing a 4:39:53.040 --> 4:39:55.400 thing that meant because they were not doing the job 4:39:55.520 --> 4:39:57.680 at all, that he can't get he can't get fully 4:39:57.759 --> 4:40:01.280 put through and we so we could have. That could 4:40:01.320 --> 4:40:04.880 have happened, and Obama just didn't because you know, you 4:40:04.960 --> 4:40:06.559 want to play. You want to be the good guy, 4:40:06.640 --> 4:40:08.520 like you want to be the person who follows the rules. 4:40:08.759 --> 4:40:10.560 But the other side doesn't care about that. They're not 4:40:10.680 --> 4:40:13.480 playing a genuine game. They're not following the rules. They're 4:40:13.480 --> 4:40:15.840 doing whatever they can to win. So this this isn't 4:40:15.840 --> 4:40:18.720 about being plugged into lefty Twitter. I get almost I 4:40:18.759 --> 4:40:21.240 get almost none of my takes from lefty Twitter. I 4:40:21.320 --> 4:40:24.559 get them from like reading reading stuff and thinking about 4:40:24.840 --> 4:40:27.280 how electoralism affects all of these issues and where to 4:40:27.480 --> 4:40:30.520 focus my attention because no matter what I say or 4:40:30.560 --> 4:40:33.200 what I do, that's not going to affect whether Texas 4:40:33.280 --> 4:40:36.240 is blew a red Yeah, and there's this I think 4:40:36.320 --> 4:40:39.800 like one of the things that is an argument against Obama. 4:40:39.960 --> 4:40:42.080 You know, intervening in that way is like, well, that 4:40:42.120 --> 4:40:45.160 would have created precedent that would have like further centralized 4:40:45.200 --> 4:40:48.560 executive power and could have been used by their refused 4:40:48.600 --> 4:40:51.800 to do their job. Yeah, but you know, I mean, 4:40:51.880 --> 4:40:54.040 look at what we got. Look at the Supreme Court 4:40:54.120 --> 4:40:55.880 that we have, which now has a six to three 4:40:55.919 --> 4:40:59.640 bent conservatively. There was just another fucking shadow ruling today 4:40:59.720 --> 4:41:06.120 that is, um about jerrymandering, and god, I was Wisconsin. 4:41:06.400 --> 4:41:08.760 Um one second, I'll look it up. But yeah, like 4:41:08.919 --> 4:41:13.640 you're you're getting like we're we're already living through that scenario. Um, 4:41:13.919 --> 4:41:17.120 And it's like like this I meantime, terms of centralation 4:41:17.160 --> 4:41:20.640 to power, like Obama claimed the legal authority to kill 4:41:20.759 --> 4:41:23.879 any man, woman, or child, regardless of their citizenship as 4:41:23.919 --> 4:41:26.200 as a US citizen without trial moment they left the 4:41:26.280 --> 4:41:28.800 United States Like that that is that is the that 4:41:28.919 --> 4:41:32.680 is the authority that he claimed, like when you know, 4:41:33.080 --> 4:41:35.520 in order to introder to run the drone assassination program. 4:41:36.200 --> 4:41:39.120 And it's yeah, so like at that point, like yeah, okay, 4:41:39.160 --> 4:41:41.240 we we we literally have a person who can go 4:41:41.600 --> 4:41:43.440 I'm going to press a button and kill you, like 4:41:45.520 --> 4:41:48.960 like we might centralize before, Like it's just I mean, 4:41:49.040 --> 4:41:51.160 it's it's not even a centralization because it was specifically 4:41:51.200 --> 4:41:53.720 within the context of the Senate not doing their job. Um, 4:41:54.080 --> 4:41:55.960 and I kind of all places into like it seems 4:41:56.000 --> 4:41:59.200 like Democrats are more politically successful when they're losing, Like 4:41:59.520 --> 4:42:01.840 it seems like they want the other side to be 4:42:01.960 --> 4:42:04.039 in power because that's when they actually do things politically. 4:42:04.360 --> 4:42:06.280 Then when they have power, they're just so scared to 4:42:06.400 --> 4:42:08.200 use it that they don't even do anything to really 4:42:08.240 --> 4:42:09.760 help people that much. And and and I mean, this 4:42:09.880 --> 4:42:11.840 is the other thing is that like, yeah, the Democrats 4:42:11.960 --> 4:42:16.960 like like most of their their actual constitute like they 4:42:17.000 --> 4:42:20.080 have they have two constituencies, right, they have like you know, 4:42:20.160 --> 4:42:23.240 they have the people they're passing tax breaks for, and 4:42:23.320 --> 4:42:25.000 then they have a bunch of they have a bunch 4:42:25.080 --> 4:42:28.680 of consultants. And the consultants like the thing that they 4:42:28.759 --> 4:42:31.040 care about is campaign donations, right, because that's how they 4:42:31.080 --> 4:42:34.400 get paid. And yeah, hey, guess what happens when you're 4:42:34.440 --> 4:42:36.440 in power. Oh, people don't give you any people don't 4:42:36.440 --> 4:42:37.720 give you much money. That this is this is this 4:42:37.759 --> 4:42:40.399 is a problem the program into in the eighties. They 4:42:40.480 --> 4:42:43.000 get more power when they're they get more money when 4:42:43.000 --> 4:42:45.200 they're not in power because then they're trying to organize 4:42:45.240 --> 4:42:47.280 to get in power. But then once they're in there, 4:42:47.320 --> 4:42:49.759 it's like, oh, wow, you're not really using the same 4:42:49.840 --> 4:42:52.120 power capabilities that the other side does when they're in 4:42:52.240 --> 4:42:56.000 charge and they're all willing to play dirty politically and 4:42:56.600 --> 4:42:59.480 we and for some reason that Democrats are not. That 4:42:59.680 --> 4:43:01.440 is kind of they don't like this something like they 4:43:01.520 --> 4:43:03.520 don't actually care about any of this stuff, right, The 4:43:03.600 --> 4:43:06.039 stuff is useful for them in terms of fundraising, right, 4:43:06.080 --> 4:43:08.600 but it's like, yeah, I don't know, Like they don't 4:43:08.680 --> 4:43:11.079 like if if every trans person in the United States 4:43:11.200 --> 4:43:13.680 was killed, right, the Democrats would be sad for a 4:43:13.720 --> 4:43:16.120 little bit, and then they wouldn't move on. Like it's 4:43:16.160 --> 4:43:18.919 not that's that's that's not a thing that if you're 4:43:18.960 --> 4:43:21.480 in a hard blue state, we know, what's more important 4:43:21.520 --> 4:43:25.440 than actually voting for supportive like this kind of stuff 4:43:25.680 --> 4:43:27.720 is actually just giving trans people money like that is 4:43:27.720 --> 4:43:30.720 gonna have much more of a positive political effect. It's 4:43:30.759 --> 4:43:32.880 just give trans people money. Whenever you see a go 4:43:32.960 --> 4:43:35.200 fund me for a trans person, donate to that instead. 4:43:35.320 --> 4:43:38.600 That's gonna have a much more uh lasting effect. Than 4:43:38.840 --> 4:43:42.000 voting if you're in you know, New York or if 4:43:42.040 --> 4:43:44.760 you're in Oregon, right, because like that those states are 4:43:44.800 --> 4:43:47.840 they're they're gonna be blue. That's always gonna happen, um, 4:43:48.600 --> 4:43:54.840 But other states like uh, like I Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama, 4:43:54.960 --> 4:43:57.440 like these are gonna be red states like there's and 4:43:58.000 --> 4:44:00.080 as much as we would be nice if yeah, if 4:44:00.080 --> 4:44:04.240 democratic senators and and people in the House we're in 4:44:04.360 --> 4:44:06.600 there instead, then yeah, these transpiles probably wouldn't be happening 4:44:06.640 --> 4:44:10.520 as much. But that's not gonna happen. So if that's 4:44:10.560 --> 4:44:12.200 not going to happen, we should focus on other ways 4:44:12.240 --> 4:44:15.800 to do that politically. And yeah, sure fixing jerrymandering will 4:44:15.800 --> 4:44:17.480 be great, but I don't think you need me to 4:44:17.560 --> 4:44:22.360 tell you that anyway. We should probably that's that's probably 4:44:22.400 --> 4:44:25.840 more or less aisode that is as I will, I will, 4:44:26.120 --> 4:44:29.960 I will plug next week if similar similar on a 4:44:30.000 --> 4:44:33.240 similar train for for kind of talking about queerness and 4:44:33.280 --> 4:44:37.480 fascism um, which yeah we are. We are planning it 4:44:37.759 --> 4:44:39.880 to a two parter, which is a pretty going to 4:44:39.919 --> 4:44:43.600 be extensive deep dive into explaining the curious case of 4:44:43.720 --> 4:44:47.440 Nazi catboys and Garrison says Garrison says, we as if 4:44:47.480 --> 4:44:49.040 any of the rest of us had any choice in this, 4:44:49.160 --> 4:44:55.400 Garrison Garrison forced this on us through violence. Yes, but yes, 4:44:55.520 --> 4:44:57.480 we will be talking about this which kind of touched 4:44:57.520 --> 4:44:59.759 us on some similar topics in terms of like gender 4:44:59.840 --> 4:45:03.840 and sexuality and how it intersects with politics and how 4:45:04.000 --> 4:45:07.080 there can be you know, seemingly contradictory claims that you know, 4:45:07.320 --> 4:45:10.400 game Nazis and all that kind of stuff, So similar 4:45:10.720 --> 4:45:13.399 similar train will be kind of discussing that and how 4:45:13.480 --> 4:45:17.240 that works. Um. But yeah, this is a end of 4:45:17.320 --> 4:45:19.680 Trends week. Honestly at this point, that's we're ending. As 4:45:19.720 --> 4:45:21.720 we're ending it, I'm kind of more optimistic than I 4:45:22.360 --> 4:45:24.200 what than I than I was when we started trans 4:45:24.280 --> 4:45:27.480 weak Um, in terms of like watching kind of how 4:45:27.600 --> 4:45:29.880 some some of these bills have played out, how some 4:45:30.040 --> 4:45:32.680 of them were not We're not fully carried through. Um. 4:45:32.840 --> 4:45:37.720 There is protests and stuff being organized. I know for March. 4:45:37.800 --> 4:45:42.160 I believe it's March thirty one, which is a trans 4:45:42.280 --> 4:45:44.160 day of visibility. There's gonna be protests in a lot 4:45:44.200 --> 4:45:48.079 of conservative states. Um, I know there's gonna be let 4:45:48.120 --> 4:45:49.720 me let me actually, let me check because I know 4:45:49.759 --> 4:45:52.920 there's there's gonna be there's gonna be multiple, multiple things happening, 4:45:53.360 --> 4:45:55.560 and I will I'm gonna be trying to I'm gonna 4:45:55.560 --> 4:45:58.440 try to be in Idaho next next week for that 4:45:59.080 --> 4:46:02.800 because there's gonna be a test in Boizy, which I 4:46:03.000 --> 4:46:07.800 think Boisi, Idaho, that's the place. But there's gonna be. Yeah, 4:46:07.919 --> 4:46:14.680 there's gonna be events in Austin, Tallahassee, Montgomery. Um so yeah, 4:46:14.800 --> 4:46:19.000 I will look up tear it Up dot org for 4:46:19.320 --> 4:46:22.520 events for info on all of the events at different 4:46:22.600 --> 4:46:26.200 at different in different states. For for trans Day of 4:46:26.480 --> 4:46:34.560 Visibility March March one, and yeah, be gay, do crime, Yeah, 4:46:34.600 --> 4:46:45.800 throw bricks at transphobs, Yeah, all that stuff. Hey, We'll 4:46:45.840 --> 4:46:48.879 be back Monday with more episodes every week from now 4:46:49.040 --> 4:46:51.600 until the heat death of the Universe. It Could Happen 4:46:51.680 --> 4:46:53.960 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 4:46:54.040 --> 4:46:56.800 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone 4:46:56.840 --> 4:46:58.680 media dot com, or check us out on the I 4:46:58.800 --> 4:47:01.320 Heart Radio app, Apple pod podcasts, or wherever you listen 4:47:01.320 --> 4:47:04.280 to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, 4:47:04.400 --> 4:47:07.800 updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. 4:47:08.040 --> 4:47:08.800 Thanks for listening,