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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. M Hey, evenyone that this

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Speaker 1: is Garrison Davis from It could happen here. For this

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Speaker 1: week of episodes, the team has put together a sepastoral

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Speaker 1: group of episodes, all focused on the broad topic of

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Speaker 1: the escalating war on trans people. We'll cover historical background,

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Speaker 1: the international turf movement, and all the new anti trans

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Speaker 1: legislation trying to be made into law here in the

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Speaker 1: United States. We won't have time to cover everything. It's

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Speaker 1: only five episodes, but we were tried to cram more

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Speaker 1: stuff in, and you know it's it's we don't want

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Speaker 1: to make episodes all like two or three hours, So

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll we'll cover all these topics more in

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Speaker 1: the future, but we tried to create five episodes here

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Speaker 1: that kind of cover a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: our bases. Also, we've we've tried not to make the

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Speaker 1: episodes super depressing, because yeah, it's five episodes based on

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Speaker 1: a kind of upsetting topic. So we try to keep

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Speaker 1: them more information based and throwing in some jokes here

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Speaker 1: and there, you know, but it is still not a fun,

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Speaker 1: fun topic, so to keep keep that in mind. But

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Speaker 1: we've tried to try to space things out and not

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Speaker 1: make them too long or not too depressing. So, without

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Speaker 1: further ado, here is episode one of the War on

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Speaker 1: trans People. Welcome to It could Happen here, a podcast

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Speaker 1: about things falling apart and in in the case of

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Speaker 1: this week, getting very angry at people doing really shitty things,

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Speaker 1: um to a specific subset of the population. All right, Gary,

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Speaker 1: isn't that every week? Well no, sometimes we talk about

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Speaker 1: other stuff like three D printed guns, but that ties

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Speaker 1: in Garrison take it from here. I'm done for the week. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So welcome to can happen here? We're talking about Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the big it could happens here is yeah

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Speaker 1: in in in relation to the ongoing war on queer

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Speaker 1: people in general. Um and how yeah that sure seems

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Speaker 1: to be like it's happening, so here here, right now.

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Speaker 1: But but before we get to the actual right now points,

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Speaker 1: I still I do want to do want to do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of background on how it's kind of

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Speaker 1: gotten to this point in the past few decades and

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Speaker 1: the variously precursors to the current moment that has seemed

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Speaker 1: to be really focused on trans people specifically, but for

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Speaker 1: a long time, a lot of the focus was on

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Speaker 1: protecting quote unquote the sanctity of marriage, which was one

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Speaker 1: of the one of the big, one of the big

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Speaker 1: talking points. And to help us talk about this fun

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Speaker 1: and engaging topic, I asked on Karen and Eve from

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Speaker 1: the Kitchen Table Cult podcast to assist us in this

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Speaker 1: horrible endeavor. Greetings, and I'm sorry, Yes we are. We

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Speaker 1: are gays who grew up in that universe, so as

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Speaker 1: as as was I, as was probably a few other

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Speaker 1: people of this this call. Uh yeah, we we all

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Speaker 1: we all have varying experiences growing up in the evangelical movement.

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Speaker 1: Um well also realizing huh, maybe we are not straight

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Speaker 1: and orsist children. So yeah, but we're gonna, we're gonna,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the kind of the escalating

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Speaker 1: war and gay marriage and how that kind of moves

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Speaker 1: over to trans people at a certain point. Um, and

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Speaker 1: specifically talking about kind of the combination of religion and politics,

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Speaker 1: because this is this is something I've discussed before on

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Speaker 1: my two part Focus on the Family episode, and this

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Speaker 1: really is going to tie into a lot of that

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Speaker 1: stuff because it's a lot of the same people. But

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Speaker 1: I would love for everyone else to kind of fill

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Speaker 1: in the gaps where I have stuff missing, because I

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Speaker 1: definitely have a a good, good point on the Family

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Speaker 1: Research Council kind of side of things, and I would

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Speaker 1: love for people to fill in the gaps on the

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Speaker 1: other other kind of stuff. But yeah, we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: off for talking about Family Research Council, um and that

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Speaker 1: whole kind of side of things, because I mean they, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: Josh Tugger is coming up. Don't both research and families,

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Speaker 1: So this seems unproblematic. I'm gonna just mute things from

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Speaker 1: now on, and yeah, you guys continue in terms of

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Speaker 1: all of the save the children rhetoric. Yes, Josh Josh

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Speaker 1: Dogger will be coming up, so yeah, but I do

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Speaker 1: want to actually open up with a quote from Mike Rosebush,

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Speaker 1: who was the vice president of Focus on the family

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Speaker 1: from thousand four UM and then a few years ago

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Speaker 1: he came out as as gay and as a surprise

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Speaker 1: so called affirming like Christian who like loves Jesus and

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Speaker 1: endorses rights for gay people. He left, he left, got

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Speaker 1: fired from focus on the family EC side or say

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Speaker 1: side B. Does he is he in favor of the

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Speaker 1: celibacy model or is he a show with marriage? He

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Speaker 1: seems to be excited about fucking okay, so it is

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Speaker 1: definitely the better side. But I want to start off

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Speaker 1: with by by him just to kind of set the

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Speaker 1: stage for how this type of thing kind of really

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Speaker 1: got got started, for combining, you know, the evangelical kind

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Speaker 1: of biblical worldview with political organizing. So anyway, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to read a quote here, quote Dobson even more so

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Speaker 1: than focused on the family, and that's a that's James Dobson,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Um, Dobson even more so than focus

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Speaker 1: on the family as an organization, strongly encouraged all evangelicals

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Speaker 1: to support and express their values in the public arena.

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Speaker 1: As background, before about nineteen seventy, evangelicals often confined themselves

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Speaker 1: within their own like cloistored communities. Political development was viewed

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Speaker 1: as a secular enterprise and suspect at best, and this

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Speaker 1: change during the Dobson era, He and others encouraged evangelicals

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Speaker 1: to learn and apply the Biblical worldview. The evangelical person

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Speaker 1: was coached in applying the apologetics debate method in publicly

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Speaker 1: sharing the Biblical worldview. Voting in every local and national

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Speaker 1: election became seen as a Christians duty. So at Focus

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Speaker 1: I learned that the evangelical leaders like Dr Dobson considered

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party to be the political machine best equipped

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Speaker 1: to endorse a Biblical worldview. In delated harmony, Republican Party

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Speaker 1: strategists salivated to win elections by securing the evangelical vote.

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Speaker 1: Thus a mutual agreement was formed. The plan became that

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Speaker 1: evangelical leaders would introduce a hot button issue onto ballots

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Speaker 1: at every local and state election. Evangelical ministers would provide

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Speaker 1: voting guides on how to influence evangelicals to vote for

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Speaker 1: the only correct Christian choice, in turn the elector cand

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Speaker 1: in turn that elected Republican Canada when champion the corresponding

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Speaker 1: Biblical worldview. And this strategy worked, and what was the

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Speaker 1: most reliable hot button to place on the local and

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Speaker 1: state of voting ballots, something that would ensure evangelicals in

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Speaker 1: mass to show up to vote the up anti gay

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Speaker 1: rights bills. Gay rights were viewed by evangelicals as a

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Speaker 1: threat to the Biblical family and society in general. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how I want to open up in

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Speaker 1: terms of kind of the shift in like the seventies

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Speaker 1: and eighties and especially in the nineties, from kind of

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Speaker 1: evangelicals being pretty divorced from political mainstream action to them

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Speaker 1: becoming a crucial part of the Republican machine, and this

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Speaker 1: kind of circle that completes itself at this at this

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Speaker 1: like at this point afterwards, because yeah, this combined with

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of save the children rhetoric and like

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Speaker 1: saving the family, like like the unit of the family

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Speaker 1: as a sacred thing to protect. It's really like that

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Speaker 1: that idea really carries over now into into into the

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Speaker 1: trans stuff because obviously they kind of lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of this to they wanted to do on gay marriage

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Speaker 1: after a long, a long fight, you know, decades and decades,

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Speaker 1: but it's still the same core idea at the heart

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Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, I just want to put an evergreen

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Speaker 1: footnote on all of that and say thanks and fuck

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Speaker 1: you to finish laughly for getting us down that road. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was like blame can definitely be passed around like

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Speaker 1: originates there, Like I mean like before all of that,

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Speaker 1: like the Evangelical Church was not even united on the

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Speaker 1: idea of abortion being bad. Like like we have come

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Speaker 1: so far to merging these these universes in this really

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Speaker 1: sucked up little marriage that they got going on. No,

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Speaker 1: and and you can't you cannot divorce the ideas of

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Speaker 1: like the escalating war against abortion and then also like

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Speaker 1: with the save the children, like protect the family idea, right,

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Speaker 1: these these are the these are the same issues. Like

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Speaker 1: these these do go together in terms of people, you know,

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Speaker 1: making this like fake version of the family that they

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Speaker 1: are swearing to protect, whether that be from gay people,

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Speaker 1: or that be from you know, women's bodily autonomy or

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Speaker 1: you know women's rights or like fifth like feminism. All

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Speaker 1: of it's in the same is in the same package.

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Speaker 1: It's like that meme of like two pictures and PAMs

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Speaker 1: like these are the same picture. It's the same exact

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Speaker 1: rhetoric and it's just like re skin slightly too for

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Speaker 1: whatever topic of the day. The The other other big

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Speaker 1: thing I want to mention before I get into Family

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Speaker 1: Research Council UM is the two thousand and four book

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Speaker 1: A Marriage Under Fire, Bye Bye by Dr James Dobson,

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Speaker 1: which was definitely one of the one of the other

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Speaker 1: kind of key points in escalating these idea of the

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Speaker 1: culture war UM. And you know that that type of

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Speaker 1: that type of like more like almost like tactical rhetoric.

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Speaker 1: It's all yeah, it's it's It was definitely it was

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Speaker 1: definitely turning point at the same time when Fireproof came out.

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Speaker 1: Oh I think so, Yeah, it happened close. Yeah. Fireproof

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Speaker 1: and all that came out between two thousand and four

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Speaker 1: and two thousand and six seven, so that was all

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Speaker 1: around the same time period because they were losing, like

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Speaker 1: you said earlier, they were losing the battle against it, right,

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Speaker 1: because that was that was around the time Queer I

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Speaker 1: was coming out. That was when they were starting to

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Speaker 1: get nervous that maybe they could not stop this particular

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Speaker 1: like like forward slide. But yeah, like on the back

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Speaker 1: cover of their Robert you have something to say. No,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking back to that period of time

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Speaker 1: when it it seemed positive progress in that regard seemed

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Speaker 1: inevitable and unstoppable. Yeah, I think the note on martial

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Speaker 1: language as used for this is really important here, Like

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Speaker 1: this is a battle, it is under fire, Like that's

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Speaker 1: that is something that was definitely on that point. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna read a little bit of the back cover

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Speaker 1: of a Marriage under Fire. Here we go. In this

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Speaker 1: succinct analysis of the issue, Dr James Dobson presents a

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Speaker 1: compelling case against the legalization of marriage between homosexuals. At

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Speaker 1: the dire ramifications our nation could face. Same sex marriage

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Speaker 1: will destroy the fundamental principles of marriage, parenthood and gender.

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Speaker 1: Families will be increasingly unstable as their definition expands to

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Speaker 1: incorporate multiple moms or dad's in quotation marks. Legalization of

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Speaker 1: gay marriages will lead to polygamy and other alternatives to

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Speaker 1: one man, one woman unions. The divorce rate will be higher,

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Speaker 1: making our children less safe. Marriage Underfire provides the foundations

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Speaker 1: of a battle plan for the preservation of traditional values

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Speaker 1: in our nation. Our response cannot be clearer. The well

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Speaker 1: being of the family and thus our nation hangs in

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Speaker 1: the balance. Now the time to speak out in defensive

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Speaker 1: marriage and the American family. So yeah, it is particularly

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Speaker 1: the battle plan, right. You know. One thing I really

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Speaker 1: loved during this time was the like libertarian Christian response

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Speaker 1: to this kind of conversation where they're just like or

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Speaker 1: we could just you know, not have marriage each tied

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Speaker 1: to the state at all. You know, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: do remember that this is the like, this is the

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Speaker 1: backup plan for like, okay, if like if marriage you know,

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Speaker 1: gay marriage goes forward, then we can just like do

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Speaker 1: that if we want to, you know, just like completely eliminated. No, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely remember that that type of rhetoric. Even even yea,

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Speaker 1: even around when like the Supreme Court cases we're going forward,

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Speaker 1: they were like really set on like this is like

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Speaker 1: you know, last resort. We have to fixture that makes

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Speaker 1: sure that it like like like church marriage is just

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Speaker 1: completely separate, which even then that still is the case,

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Speaker 1: and like like a lot of places, like churches is

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Speaker 1: still in a lot of states like reserve the right

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Speaker 1: to uh not people, um, and you can only you

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Speaker 1: can do it through the courts, but not through the church.

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Speaker 1: There's also the subtext in that that I think should

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Speaker 1: be unpacked, which is that the multimum moms and Dad's

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Speaker 1: kind of image that's given is not a signal of

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Speaker 1: like the non traditional family being bad, but more of

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Speaker 1: a There was this myth that was pushed really hard

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Speaker 1: in the conversion therapy circuit that like if you didn't

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Speaker 1: have a good father figure, you were going to be gay.

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Speaker 1: You're you know, if you didn't have a good relationship

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Speaker 1: with your mom, you're going to be gay. So like

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Speaker 1: having this as like this, these coded statements in there

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Speaker 1: are giving the clue of like we're trying to stop

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Speaker 1: the cycle. We're trying to not create more gay kids. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that's why this is important. Yeah, I was reading

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Speaker 1: a lot earlier today from the Heritage Foundation because I

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Speaker 1: remember them being a key start. It was so bad,

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Speaker 1: and their whole thing was like you have to have

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Speaker 1: a mother and a father otherwise everything is terrible. And

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Speaker 1: then you get gay kids, and that also lights like

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Speaker 1: goes into the whole other theory that was like well,

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Speaker 1: which I think Robertson either made up or repeated. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was like, well, people who are gay were abused

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Speaker 1: as children. Yeah, that is that is definitely when I

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Speaker 1: mean then of course all these all these evangelicals are

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Speaker 1: also all like beating their kids, were abusing your child

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Speaker 1: because they were gay or because I mean I was

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Speaker 1: and I am, But I don't think. Yeah, the related

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Speaker 1: in the sense that you being gay is is the

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Speaker 1: is the one of the triggers for the parents, but

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Speaker 1: it's not the cause of relationship runs the opposite direction.

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Speaker 1: Rights exactly. We are gonna take a break and hear

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Speaker 1: from all of our lovely sponsors who don't support child abuse.

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Speaker 1: Probably well, I mean unless it's unless it's which which

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Speaker 1: does you know does run that island off the coast

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Speaker 1: of Indonesia where you can hunt children for sport? But

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Speaker 1: we prefer not to see that is I don't think, Robert,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to bleep that. No, Garrison, We're

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Speaker 1: not going to bleep an ad. That's what sponsors this

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Speaker 1: show is child hunting island, which you cannot say that

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Speaker 1: is designed to do every week more gay kids. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: it's designed to make happier billionaires. Yeah, there's nothing. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing Elon Musk gloves more than hunting children on his

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Speaker 1: at a private island reserve off the coast of Indonesia.

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Speaker 1: And and like Elon Musk, you two can hunt children

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Speaker 1: if you bube anyway, here's here's yet. Yes, we are

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Speaker 1: we are back, and now we're gonna we're gonna move

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Speaker 1: on to probably the most unfun portion of the show today.

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Speaker 1: Um f r C. The Family Research Council. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: actually talk about like what they are and what they

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Speaker 1: did and how they're kind of important in the evolution

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Speaker 1: of rhetoric and various other stuff. So yeah, Family Research

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Speaker 1: Council emerged from a nineteen eighty White House conference on

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Speaker 1: families that James Dobson kind of co led with the

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Speaker 1: President of the United States. So that's fun. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he he met and prayed with a group of

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Speaker 1: like eight Christian leaders at a Washington, d c. Hotel,

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Speaker 1: ultimately leading to the creation of the Family Research Council UM,

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Speaker 1: under the direction of a Gerald region Er. That's how

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Speaker 1: that's then, that's how I'm gonna say it. That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say his name because he doesn't respect so

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to google it. Um and it uh it.

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Speaker 1: It became a division to focus on the family, and

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Speaker 1: like the late eighties under Gary Bowyer. Um. And the

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Speaker 1: reason there's a who bunch of like complicated like tax

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Speaker 1: stuff because focused on the family can't get too political

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Speaker 1: because then middle like sacrifice their tax taxing extempt status.

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Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of really shady stuff happening

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Speaker 1: in between Family Research Council and focused on the family

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Speaker 1: proper not doing any lobbying. Yeah, in terms of like

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Speaker 1: who runs what and like what cross over there is

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Speaker 1: with like the leadership. They're basically the same organization, but

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Speaker 1: they are like legally separate and kind of have different

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Speaker 1: like operating strategies. Um, but they really are, like to

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Speaker 1: be fair, lots of words to do this, this is

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Speaker 1: not unusual. No, it's it's it's not unusual, but like

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Speaker 1: it's important to that. Like they basically are like like

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Speaker 1: they're they're very late, like they are like like sibling organizations.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, this is uh, this is uh the Gary

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Speaker 1: boy or the guy who took over in the late

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Speaker 1: eighties of what it was. Also the was the under

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Education and Domestic Policy advisor to President Reagan. UM.

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Speaker 1: So again already like fully fully tied into like the

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Speaker 1: Republican machine. So m Boyer brought in several anti LGBT

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Speaker 1: researchers who pumped out like defamatory material about queer people. UM.

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Speaker 1: Robert Knight was a longtime conservative writer and journalist and

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Speaker 1: the kind of major propagandist against lgbt Q rights. He

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Speaker 1: served as the f f r c S Director of

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Speaker 1: Cultural Affairers in the nineties up into the early two thousand's.

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Speaker 1: Um While working there, he wrote, along with some Focus

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Speaker 1: on the Family editors, a booklet called the the Homosexual

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Speaker 1: Behavior and Pedophilia. This is a very very very common

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Speaker 1: thread and all their stuff is that gay people were

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Speaker 1: abused as kids and gay people therefore are like wired

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Speaker 1: to also abuse kids, Like it's part of this cycle

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Speaker 1: that they like coopit a whole bunch of research on it,

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Speaker 1: that they misrepresented that all of the researchers who did

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Speaker 1: the actual stuff was like, no, you're totally wrong. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's there's there's I talk I talked about this

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Speaker 1: a little a little bit and more in depth than

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Speaker 1: the focus on the family episodes for for bastards in

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Speaker 1: terms of like they actually research they used, Um, but

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Speaker 1: yeah it is uh. In the what one of the

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Speaker 1: remarkable claims inside the booklet was was the a search

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Speaker 1: and that quote. One of the primary goals of the

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Speaker 1: homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent

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Speaker 1: laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the profits of

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Speaker 1: a new sexual order. So that's uh, that's great profits.

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Speaker 1: F I T S that iss P E P H

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Speaker 1: Y s pH is just libertarianism then basically yeah, basically yes, um, yes,

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Speaker 1: the for some reason, you cannot find this pamphlet on

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Speaker 1: the f FRC website today. Um. Yeah. So Boya left

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Speaker 1: the group UM, and then FARC had two presidents UM

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Speaker 1: and emerge and one of the most one of them

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Speaker 1: kind of resulted in becoming the most powerful religious right

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Speaker 1: lobbying group in the country with tons of tons of

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Speaker 1: policy researchers and writers UM, and a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of like email like email lists and like physical

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Speaker 1: mailing us was a big part of their political organizing.

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Speaker 1: You know, Eve and Karen we have talked before about

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Speaker 1: the effective power of the rights mailing lists in terms

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Speaker 1: of getting political change. Yeah. Um. Kenneth Conners was a

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Speaker 1: Florida attorney and a leader in the pro life movement.

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Speaker 1: He served as president in the early two thousand's. During

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Speaker 1: his kind of tenure, um f r c's agenda focused

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Speaker 1: mostly on abortion and then also a traditional marriage of

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Speaker 1: other stuff. Was like religious liberty, which means Christian supremacy,

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Speaker 1: not actual religious liberty. Um. And then like uh, like

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Speaker 1: protecting parents rights right, protecting like parental choice, um, which

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk, we'll talk like how do they define

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Speaker 1: traditional marriage? Is this involving like dowries and land transfers

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Speaker 1: and treaties. I believe they just I believe they want

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Speaker 1: one man and then one woman and the woman doesn't

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Speaker 1: really need to actually want it, but as long as

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Speaker 1: the man wants it, then it's fine. Um. And are

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Speaker 1: they like the Catholics where they believe it has to

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Speaker 1: be for the purposes of procreation? Um? I mean they're

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Speaker 1: they're part of the mainstream evangelicals. Like there's definitely there's

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Speaker 1: like the court of Idea. So yeah, like they are

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Speaker 1: they are, they are for that. But it's I know,

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Speaker 1: it's it is. It's it's a very like patriarchal thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it depends things dumb here, but like the because

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Speaker 1: these are these are important distinctions that need it depends

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Speaker 1: on congregation to congregation, right, Like like the kind of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that I grew up with wasn't super focused

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Speaker 1: on tons of on having tons of kids actually, um.

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Speaker 1: In fact that they kind of prefer just keeping it

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Speaker 1: capped off at two kids, because you know, the more

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Speaker 1: kids you had, the less loyal you were to the

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Speaker 1: church because you had to focus more on your kids. Actually,

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Speaker 1: so it does, it does. It does really depend on

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Speaker 1: congregation to congregation. I think Family Research Council tried to

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Speaker 1: keep themselves open to lots of interpretations, so blets people

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Speaker 1: call the glom onto their stuff, so they didn't get

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Speaker 1: like super specific around the rule of child rearing. And

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Speaker 1: that's anything it's important to note around that. This time,

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Speaker 1: or a little before it was when John Paul's Theology

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Speaker 1: the Body was coming out, which is this tone um

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Speaker 1: that's basically getting into like why you know, the death

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Speaker 1: penalty you would be bad and why abortion is bad,

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Speaker 1: and it's all this like sanctity of the body and

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Speaker 1: the body existing and then like the sanctity of sex

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Speaker 1: as for the purposes appropriation that was in the in

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere at this time. That was definitely a key

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Speaker 1: point is that sex is just for making kids. Like

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Speaker 1: that is definitely like a big, a big part of it,

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Speaker 1: which like they don't actually really believe, but they say right,

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Speaker 1: because like if you look at all of like the

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Speaker 1: all of the extra like the people like all like

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Speaker 1: these leaders like are not like faithful to their wives

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Speaker 1: by anything. Not an accidental side effect of kids at

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Speaker 1: the point. No, Yeah, but I think it is, like

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Speaker 1: it is interesting, like the amount of stuff that's aund

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Speaker 1: like parental choice and like parent rights, which will come

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Speaker 1: up over the course of the next episodes of the series.

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Speaker 1: I'm right now writing episodes about the current like a

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Speaker 1: book bannings going across the country and a lot of

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Speaker 1: those tied to liked like parents rights over their children, um,

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Speaker 1: like they decide what their children gets to read. So

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Speaker 1: it's all stuff I've never heard of that before in

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Speaker 1: my life. That's definitely not also tied up with a

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Speaker 1: bunch of the stuff happening in Florida right now, it's

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Speaker 1: definitely not definitely related to Mike Ferris at all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and now, yeah, I mean really like yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: this is sort of what we're getting at, is that

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Speaker 1: the modern anti trend stuff is they're just playing all

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Speaker 1: of the sort of greatest chance of the antipa stuff

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Speaker 1: like the bathroom and the stuff. Yeah, I don't worry.

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Speaker 1: I'm planning to tie this up in a nice in

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Speaker 1: a nice little bow ahead of you. Just give me

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Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes and I'll do it. So um yeah

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Speaker 1: up next we're talking starting to two US and three

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Speaker 1: they change leaders again and this is where they really

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Speaker 1: have evolved into their current form with Tony Perkins, who

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Speaker 1: became president of the Family Family Research Council into US

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Speaker 1: prior prior to that, he serves two terms as a

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Speaker 1: Louisiana state representative in the nineties and even even even

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Speaker 1: when he was president of Family Research Counselor, he served

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Speaker 1: to two years as state representative. He's also a former

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Speaker 1: police officer UM and a television news reporter. So overall

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Speaker 1: just sounds like a quite quite the dude. Um yeah

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Speaker 1: he he. He authored a whole bunch of you know,

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Speaker 1: like all these guys right in, tons of like Christian

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Speaker 1: books they get published by like weird Christian publishers. Um.

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Speaker 1: He also served as the senior pastor of a of

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Speaker 1: a church in Maryland UM called the Hope Christian Church.

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Speaker 1: He uh and he was. He was a leader of

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Speaker 1: an effort by white and black religious right preachers to

431
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: work together against LGBT equality, specifically like in like the

432
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: East Coast in the South. That's where there's so there's

433
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: a there's a like cross organizing between historically black churches.

434
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: Of course not all of them, but like the Perkins

435
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: really tried to like reach out on that front to

436
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: get like that coalition going, which was kind of unique

437
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: at the time. So yeah, a big part of FARC

438
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: strategy is to pound home the false claimed that queer

439
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: people are more likely to sectually abused children other than

440
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: heterosexual people. Um, this is uh, yeah, this is not

441
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: not scientifically true. You can look up like stats and

442
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: you can look up you can look up like the

443
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: American Psychology Association has a lot of research on this

444
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: topic because it was such a big point in the

445
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: early two thousands that people had to like talk about it. Yeah,

446
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 1: so we is all that's like one of these things

447
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 1: that like was a myth, you know, ambiently as a

448
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: scare tactic and a slippery slope fallacy. But I think

449
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: there's also it has its roots in a particular misunderstanding

450
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: of Romans too, which is the passage that most people

451
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: point to as their anti gay rhetoric. And the context

452
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: of that is like most like centrist and liberal like

453
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: biblical scholars will agree that that passage was more about

454
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: the pedophilia that was happening in the Roman Empire and

455
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: speaking out against that um and not specifically against like

456
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: consulting adults even even even even like the Old even

457
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: even in the Old Testament to a lot of new

458
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: people going into the actual translations of stuff, and like

459
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: even like Leviticus um, it is definitely pointing towards it

460
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: being about specifically like fathers not abusing their like like

461
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, like pre pubescent like sons who are like

462
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,239
Speaker 1: more like androgynous, Like it is specifically targeted like this

463
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: type of idea, it's not it's not against like gay

464
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: men who are like adults. Yeah, there's there's this theological

465
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: conversation on the right that was happening that kind of

466
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: was like trying to account for that historical context and

467
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: was like it's both. Clearly it's both because they go together,

468
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: right and obviously, like we have to find a way

469
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: to justify demonizing gay people in order to protect the

470
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: san city of marriage, so we have still save the

471
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: children and multiple children. So Perkins has continued to defend

472
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: the kind of game and his pedophiles idea. Um. He

473
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: had a he had a televised debate on MSNBC into

474
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: in two US in ten about this, UM, so like yeah,

475
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that is like twelve years ago at

476
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: this point, but still two US and ten feels much

477
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: more recent than stuff you know, talking about like the

478
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: late nineties. Um, yeah, debating with the Southern Poverty Law Center,

479
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: like on the issue of that now. Yeah. Yeah. So.

480
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: Some other anti LGBT kind of propagandists at uh f

481
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: RC includes Peter Sprigg, who joined into US in one UM.

482
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: He authored the brochure called a Top ten Myths about Homosexuality,

483
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: which was pretty popular around the time. UM. Such claims

484
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: inside the book conclude that like X, gay therapy or

485
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: conversion therapy were sexual oritation can be change, UM, lgbt

486
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: V LGBTQ people are mentally ill because being lgbt Q

487
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: makes you ill, and that the sexual abuse of boys

488
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: by adult men is more common than consensual sex between

489
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: adult men, which is not obviously not true. That is

490
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: quite I have questions, that is quite so many questions.

491
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: That is quite quite. The stat um and like Springs,

492
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: sources are a mixture of like junk science is stewed

493
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: by groups that support conversion therapy UM and also legitimate science,

494
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: quota out of context or cherry picked, which is a

495
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: long used tactic by anti gay kind of groups. The

496
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: bolster their bolster like their claims and their general like rhetoric. Right,

497
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: if you mix in like a hint of truth, it

498
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: can make all of your outrageous stuff seem more like legible. Um,

499
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: we knew that from the screw Tape Letters. Yeah, like

500
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: one of what one of one of his better books.

501
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I actually enjoy the screw Tape Letters. I think it's

502
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty fucking funny. It's good, but also like just

503
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: so like an easter egg for those who know what

504
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about, Like he was extremely kinky carry on. Anyway,

505
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: one of the main researchers they kind of misused research

506
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: for was Juith Stacey, who was like since issued lots

507
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: of public statements condemning the condemning what you know, Family

508
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: Research Council advocates for, and has endlessly requested that anti

509
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: gay groups to stop mr misrepresenting her work. Um. Yeah,

510
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: so we're gonna jump forward to two US and eight, uh,

511
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: because this is this is of course, the election of

512
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: Obama has really kind of frightened a lot of people.

513
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: This is when Dobson sent out that letter detailing like

514
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: what a post Obama future could be, in which he

515
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: included gay marriage as a part of like the dystopian

516
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: night mare. He was imagining, this is the future that

517
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: gay people want. Yeah, an interesting it was just an

518
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: interesting thing on spring Here he was, he was he

519
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: was on MSNBC again, which I mean, maybe we should stop,

520
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 1: maybe we should stop inviting these people onto new his channels,

521
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: But anyway, um Springs responding, Springue responded to a question

522
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: about allowing non American same sex partners um of American

523
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: citizens to immigrate into the States by saying I would

524
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: prefer that we export homosexuals from the United States rather

525
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: than import to them UM and saying I think there

526
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: would be a place for criminal sanctions on homosexual behavior

527
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: um and then when asked, so should we outlaw gay behavior,

528
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: Spruce said yes, so yeah. It's it's like it's very

529
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: much a clear kind of mask off thing is that

530
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: they just don't they just don't want it around at all.

531
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: And an idea I'm going to tie this kind of

532
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: more towards towards the end of the series with the

533
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: trans stuff. Is like the idea of queerness has like

534
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: a contagion. Um, these people having to like the brutality

535
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: is justified in their own heads because they it's like

536
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: this idea that queerness can spread and it can infect children,

537
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: so you have to you have to contain it, and

538
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: any action taken against it is justified because it's like

539
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: you're containing a virus, and it's like this is really

540
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: what kind of makes them feel so justified and righteous

541
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: in every action they do. So yeah, including out including

542
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: outlaw and gay gay people could have you know, exporting

543
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: them from the United States, you know, a blatantly fascist idea.

544
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: So yeah, um uh I. F ARC also worked unsuccessfully

545
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: to continue they don't ask, don't tell policy. Um, this

546
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: was up until like two US and ten, So that

547
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: was that was a bit definitely another thing that they

548
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: tried to focus on. But the slide, you know, the

549
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: progressive side, actually was happening around that time. You know

550
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: something interesting about that, yeah earlier today Yeah oh yeah,

551
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: So I was again looking at Heritage Foundation because that

552
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: was the Heritage Foundation was like my big kind of

553
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: go to when I was growing up in the nineties

554
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: and two thousands and doing speech and debate and apologetics.

555
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: Campaign all that ship and um, I was like, well,

556
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: what was their take on Donuts Don't Tell? And they

557
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, we're very very against it. Yeah,

558
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: in ninety three they had like this paper published and

559
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: they were very against it because they were like, well,

560
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: then you won't then you'll still have gay people in

561
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: the military. Yeah, absolutely in the military. Yes, they're like,

562
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: they will. There will be like, it will be bad

563
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: for the unit cohesion, there will be sexual abuse, as

564
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: if that wasn't already happening. There will be like all

565
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: of these terrible things happening in the military that couldn't

566
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: possibly happen, couldn't possibly be happening otherwise, it will like

567
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: we can combat effectiveness is the line that Family Research

568
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: Council used. Yeah. Yeah, So there was definitely a shift

569
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: in like the nineties where a lot of these evangelical

570
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: groups were against Donuts Don't Tell because yeah, it's still

571
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: allowed gay people and just that they didn't say anything.

572
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: But then as they saw progress happening there like Okay,

573
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: this is better than nothing like this, this is better

574
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: than them being openly gay, So they kind of switched

575
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: gears towards UM which is you know, they're just like

576
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: grasping at anything they can. Um, I think, what's time

577
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: for another break and then we will kind of finish

578
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: this off with some other not fun information. But yeah,

579
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: let's let's let's do let's let's do let's let's do

580
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,719
Speaker 1: it at. Let's let's see, let's see what our our

581
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: lovely sponsors at has to say. Well, this big thing

582
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: is trying to get volunteers together to raid it's child

583
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: hunting island off the coast of Indonesia, a counter raid. Yeah, yeah,

584
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: you can. You can volunteer to go fight in Ukraine,

585
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: or you can volunteer to help take down it's child

586
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: hunting island so that you can run it. You know,

587
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: it would be fun to have all of the food

588
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: delivery services have their own private militias that take the world.

589
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: We're moving towards garrison. I mean the post office already

590
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: does so, right, not the companies. Yeah, yeah, arm everybody.

591
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: Everything should be a military. That's the whatever podcast this is,

592
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: and we're back and we are still talking about my

593
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: favorite topic, which is the Family Research Council. During the

594
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: twelve election cycle, they donated about two two thousand dollars

595
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: to eighty federal Republican candidates UM, saying that they're using

596
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: the money to UH to strategically be used to support

597
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: pro family candidates and pro family issues and elections and

598
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: valid incentives across the country. Yeah, so this is just

599
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of you know, keep keep the

600
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: keep keep the pro pro family angle in mind. You know,

601
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: this is that they continuously were always donating money to

602
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: two US and twelve was the highest one on on

603
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: record UM and I think I don't think they've even

604
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: matched that since then. It was it was pretty high

605
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: because that was that was Obama's second term. So they

606
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: were definitely like trying to really really organize, right because

607
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 1: this this this is like right but right before when

608
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court was going to be ruling on gay

609
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: marriage as well, so of course which digit didn't get finalist,

610
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: but they were starting to hear cases. We're gonna let's go,

611
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: We're going to kind of briefly go back to to UH.

612
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: To James Dobson here, reference of people are people who

613
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: do not listen to the behind the bastards once. He's

614
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: an evangelical Christian author and self proclaimed psychologist who who

615
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: if you if you don't know who James Dobson is,

616
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: please preserve your innocence and just quit, like, just go

617
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: enjoy it. I don't know now forever now, I just

618
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: don't know, God I do. I do love the idea

619
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: of a self proclaimed psychologist. That's that's that's the energy

620
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: child psychologists, just like I know what kids need. They

621
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: need to be on Hunting Island, you know. And and

622
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't even believe in like child's about Like no,

623
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: he doesn't held development. But also you do know that

624
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: I'm getting a PhD in para psychology, right, I know, Garrison,

625
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: We're paying for it. This podcast is going to have

626
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: the highest rate of doctors of any podcast on the

627
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: internet other than the one that our friend does. Anyway,

628
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: I will be happy to be invited back onto Cova's

629
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: podcast as a doctor in para psychology. I think I'll

630
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: be able to offer some really unique insights. Okay, Anyway,

631
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: Dobson founded Focus of Family in nineteen seventy seven, which

632
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: is unfortunate because he could have just watched Star Wars,

633
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: but instead he that is that is a key part

634
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: of this ideology. Um, yeah, he was. He's he's a

635
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: founding He's a founding member of several um T lgbt

636
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: hit groups, UM Family Research councilor being one of them,

637
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: also a lot. He is a founder of Alliance Defending Freedom. Um.

638
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: So yeah, he got he got, he got two under

639
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,479
Speaker 1: his belt. Um. The the organization, which is now based

640
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: in Arizona, became a very powerful kind of fundraising behemouth

641
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: dedicated to fighting so called marriage like marriage equality for

642
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: for queer people and trans inclusive nondiscrimination protections. Um and

643
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: with a big part of the thing that they were

644
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: fighting for was enshrining a quote right to discriminate against

645
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: LGBTQ people in state laws, which is, you know, all

646
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: the stuff around like you know what if a baker

647
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: is forced to bake a cake for you know, all

648
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: of this nonsense is what so that that that is

649
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: so like that that that is that that is Dobson

650
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: He started that kind of thing. Yeah, so I'm gonna

651
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna now have a little fun though, because when

652
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: we want to jump ahead a little bit just to

653
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: kind of get the rhetoric kind of nailed down on

654
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: what on what kind of house stuff we we're gonna

655
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: start shifting towards the trans stuff at this point. Um.

656
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: But um, after after the Supreme Court ruling for nationwide

657
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 1: kind of marriage equality. Um Dobson has had this had

658
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: this beautiful, beautiful quote. I had this black cloud over

659
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: me on June twenty six when that decision was handed

660
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 1: down and I was contemplating this foreboding. This black clowd

661
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: to hit me like a ton of bricks. The decision

662
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 1: was not really about gay marriage. It's not. It's about

663
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: everything else. It's about the entire culture war. It's about

664
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: it's about control of the public schools, and it's about

665
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: what's happening in universities. It's about the economy, and it's

666
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: about what businesses, and it's about the military, and it's

667
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: about medicine. It's about everything. We lost the entire culture

668
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: war without one decision. The gay marriage thing was just

669
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: a part of it. But it's going to touch every dimension.

670
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: So I wish that was true. But in terms of yes,

671
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: in terms of kind of how this gets expanded to

672
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: like businesses, schools, universities, medicine. I just love the histrionics

673
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: that they started kind of focusing on in terms of like, well,

674
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: we lost this culture war. I guess we got to

675
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: move on to the next one, which is you know,

676
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 1: the even more freakish thing, which is, oh, kids wanting

677
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: to kids realizing that may be they have a different

678
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: views on gender. So that's the next kind of like

679
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: rotating target, that that that they that they move moved towards.

680
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: So yeah. Um. Earlier that year, Dobson laid laid bare

681
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: his his fundamental confusion on what it means to be

682
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: a LGBT um. He claimed on his radio show that

683
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: being bisexual meant that you have orgies, should mean not

684
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: yes yes um. He also blamed uh in two US twelve.

685
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: He also blamed the two US in twelve Sandy Hook

686
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: massacre on a queer people because because they should the

687
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: nation turned turned their back on God. It allowed it

688
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: allowed judgments to fall on us, which is why I

689
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: said that happened. That's one of the interesting splits in

690
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: the right between the people who think it's fake and

691
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: the people who thought it was queer people's fault. Yes, yeah,

692
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: it's is there. Yeah, they've all come back together now,

693
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: But it was it was a real it was a

694
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: real split. And one of one of the other great

695
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: things about Dobson is so after my Behind the Bastard's

696
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: episodes on Dobson, like literally, like the day after it dropped.

697
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: I found this extra little disturbing nugget of info about him,

698
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: um in a in an old blog post titled is

699
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: my child Becoming homosexual? Dobson recommends Dobson recommends things that

700
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: a father can do to help his child fix homosexual

701
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: symptoms fix sorry, including taking your child into the shower

702
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: with you to compare penises of Yeah, it is not good.

703
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: I will I will quote from I will quote from

704
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: the blog. Um. The boy's father has to do his part.

705
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: He needs to mirror and affirm his son's male nous.

706
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: He can play rough and tumble games with his son

707
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: in ways that are decidedly different from the games he

708
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: would play with a little girl. He can help us

709
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: and learn how to throw and catch a ball. He

710
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 1: can teach him to hown a square put in peg

711
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: into a square hole. He could even take his son

712
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: into the shower with him where a boy couldn't help.

713
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: Notice that dad has a fetus just like his holy bigger.

714
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this reminds me of so that is

715
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: a quote by Dr Jim Stuffson, psychologist. Oh my god. Anyway,

716
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's nothing nothing at all to uh, hey,

717
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: Jimmy Dabbs, how's your son? Yeah, that's good. How are you?

718
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: Are you talking nothing at all? To kind of interrogate there,

719
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 1: Um yeah, m hm. The other thing that I really love,

720
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: and by love, I mean don't live, um, is that

721
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: like the only gay people who exist are gay boys.

722
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 1: Yeahs and by people don't exist at all. Like, yeah,

723
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: this is a really interesting thing. It's because it's about

724
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: why would Uh, it's about if it happens to a woman,

725
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, they're a woman anyway, They're already

726
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: not as good as men. I guess it kind of

727
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: makes sense that they would do that. Um, if it

728
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: happens to a guy, you're like, well, obviously, like why

729
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: would you do that? You're part of the patriarchy. Why

730
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: would you, Like you're supposed to exert power over women?

731
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: What is wrong with you for not wanting that? Like

732
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of other like patriarchal stuff going on,

733
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: and like why they focused on that Also because they

734
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: undeniably find lesbians attractives, like they can't like they can't

735
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: help but find it hot. So they definitely focus it

736
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: more on gay men because they find that more gross

737
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: because it is like a defiance of patriarchy in like

738
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: a different way you but stuff. Yeah, and of course,

739
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: but um well and I think also this is the

740
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: same reason why transmisogyny becomes such a huge sort of

741
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,439
Speaker 1: driver fanti transmove because you know, I mean you see

742
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 1: this a lot also with we see with non Christian

743
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: like transforms too. But like the ultimate sin you can

744
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: commit if if if you if you're a person is

745
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: if like, yeah, the ultimate sin you can commit against

746
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: sort of the family is having someone who being born

747
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: and being seen as a man and then you know,

748
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: becoming a woman a woman, and that's like that's you

749
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: know that, that's that's what trans misogyny is, right, It's

750
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: it's about it's it's the specific kind of trans sexist

751
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: trans sexism that you get when you do that, when

752
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: you specifically like you know, in in these people's eyes,

753
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: it's like you give up being a man and become

754
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: a woman. And these they go ballistic over this because

755
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: it's you know, like it's it's it's it's it's rejection

756
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: to patriarchal power. And then you know, and they have

757
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: to do all of this sort of like incredible pathologizing

758
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: to explain why this would happen and ignore just like

759
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: this person was always a woman. That's you know, also

760
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: like it's it's a condemnation of your misogyny, in your

761
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: misogynistic behavior to like go join you know, the victims

762
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: of our hate. So like it has all of these

763
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: these layers here. Yeah, and it's gonna we're gonna get

764
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: like right right right into trend stuff now because yeah,

765
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: in Supreme Court ruling making the same sexual marriage illegal

766
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: throughout the United States, which sent LGBT anti LGBT hate

767
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: groups into a furious reaction. Um, Family Family Research Council

768
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: was no exception, and it started working in tandem with

769
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: other groups to support so called kind of religious liberty,

770
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, laws which allowed people who object to same

771
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: sex to same sex like couples and just you know,

772
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: queerness in general, to to deny goods and services to

773
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: same sex couples and just you know, queer people in general.

774
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: It is it is very like nonspecific um. So yeah,

775
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: also in Family Research Council faced its own set of scandals.

776
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: Referring to a friend of the pod Josh jugger Um

777
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: was executive who was executive director of the Family Research

778
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: Council action um political arm of the organization. It was

779
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 1: obviously revealed that he had molested several save the babies

780
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: to your hard drive, several children And yeah, I had

781
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: a lot of had a lot of children on his

782
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: hard drives so much that like even like the FBI

783
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: was kind of surprised how much he had. Like when

784
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: when when the FBI is surprised on how much child

785
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: porn you have, You're like, quite, yeah, you are? You

786
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: are when you surprised them? Have you have you read

787
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: his his appeal? I have not read. It's basically making

788
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: it out to be like there was this other guy

789
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: who had access to that computer. Was his name Josh Tucker. No,

790
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: it's deciding, you're just like he's just like somebody else

791
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: probably did it. It wasn't me. Yeah. So he resigned

792
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: from Family Research Council after posting a brief message on

793
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: his website saying that he resigned after events public. I

794
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: think he resigned for a Family Research Council because of

795
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: the Ashley Madison Yes, well, yeah, he resigned. Listing listed

796
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: listing concerning events as the recent he stopped Ashley Madison

797
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: accounts got hacked and leaked and it was revealing his

798
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: email was also on there. Yes, yeah, yeah, I feel

799
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: like that's what we kicked it off. But that was

800
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: around the time that was he didn't get Yeah, his

801
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: sister's case got released to the press. It is it

802
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: is frustrating, how Yeah. Definitely the actually Madison thing was

803
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: seen as more of a moral failing than molestian children

804
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: um and having tons of child porn. That was definitely

805
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: like within like the church and within within the kind

806
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: of the whole like like church like network. The actually

807
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: Madison thing was seen as much more of a kind

808
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: of like an egregious sin. Well, because that's infidelity and

809
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: that's just like that destroys the entire you know, nuclear family,

810
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: whereas molesting your siblings is just boys doing waste stuff. See,

811
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: I I grew up a boy, and I never I

812
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: never did that. I kind of whether they never did

813
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: that either. So anyway, uh, any real boys right in

814
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: and let us know this back to back to Perkins

815
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: um the Perkins was elected head chair of the U

816
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: S Commission on International Religious Freedom um IN, which was

817
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: an independent, bipartisan and federal government entity established by US

818
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: Congress to monitor, analyze, and report on threats to religious freedom.

819
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 1: So who sponsored that fucking bill? That's a good question. Uh.

820
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 1: Over the course of this time, he continued to work

821
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: at the Family Research Council as well UM, including the

822
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 1: annual Family Research un SOL sponsored UH Values Voter Summit

823
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 1: been to those which featured President Trump as a speaker

824
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: UM as well as Healthy Human Services Secretary Alexaser. So yeah,

825
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: this was the first time a sitting Health and Human

826
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: Services secretary was addressed, like gave an address at at

827
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: the gathering UM so. Also at VVS the Values Voter Summit,

828
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: they featured an anti trans panel that illustrated the anti

829
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 1: lgbt Q rights shift to kind of storytelling as a

830
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: way to further marginalized trans people's and like next year,

831
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: oh god, the the panel hosted like a multiple kind

832
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: of anti transactivists. Um Lynn Mager was there. Um two

833
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: of Maker's children in entify his trans and they no

834
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 1: longer speak to her. Um. Andre van Mole, the co

835
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: chairman Anti lgbt Hate group of the American College of

836
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: Ediatricians Committee on Adolescent Sexuality, used to use like suico

837
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: scientific claims, telling the audience that the that that dissidence

838
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: from gender dysphoria is the norm, calling that they use

839
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: this weird problematic study that LEMPT, like that limpt trans

840
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: kids together with non trans kids to study this idea

841
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: of gender identity. It's a whole bunch of like the

842
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: same like you know how like they were like over

843
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: two thousands they were they were misusing like research to

844
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: say like, oh, look, how all of these gay people

845
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 1: are all also all pedophiles. Also they have sex with

846
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: kids more often than adults. Like what, No, it's it's

847
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: the same, It's this, it's the same type of thing. Um.

848
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: They also me the false claim that the majority of

849
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: trans kids are also like a diagnosed with autism um,

850
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: which makes it easier for them to be recruited into

851
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 1: being transgender because they can be tricked because they're autistic.

852
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: You can collect them all. This is like the they

853
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: then diagram of autism causema vaccines is causing trans kids.

854
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: Also also the idea that like trans affirming care causes

855
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: or dysphoria, which causes more suicide, as opposed to the

856
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: scientific reasoning that affirming care causes less dysphoria, which causes

857
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: less suicide. Um, you know, a whole bunch of a

858
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: whole bunch of nonsense stuff feature. You can't expect a

859
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: group that will not acknowledge the fact that having access

860
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: to birth control as a way to prevent abortions would

861
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: acknowledge any of this is real either. Yeah, no, I

862
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: mean The Pedal also featured Cathy Grace Duncan from from

863
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: the Portland, Oregon based Portland Fellowship, which states that it

864
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 1: offers a freedom to people from homosexuality. UM. Duncan claims

865
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: that she detransitioned and is proof that transitioning is always

866
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: wrong because that she de transitions. That means it's proof

867
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 1: for everybody that everybody should yes, because trans people are

868
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: a monolith. Yeah, we're talking more about We're gonna be

869
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: talking more about, um, the sort of how how people

870
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: who do transition get weaponized against trans people. And again

871
00:50:58,600 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: I also I also need to point out, like you

872
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: just immediately that like most people who do transition, detransition

873
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: because they are under immense social pressure too, because society

874
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 1: is normously transphobic. And then there are a small number

875
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: of people who do treat who do treat de transition

876
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: because it's not for them and good for them. But yeah,

877
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 1: they get a very various small minority of those people

878
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: basically get used by people who don't care about them.

879
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: Other people get gender firming surgeries and change their minds

880
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: about it later. There's this whole movement of you know,

881
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: women who are getting their breast implants removed. What's the difference.

882
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: It's the same picture, Yeah, same picture. Sure. Another really

883
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: fun another fun thing I do at least once a

884
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: year as I go onto the focus on the Family

885
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: and Family Research Council websites and that look at look

886
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: at their entire like queer section. That's really interesting because

887
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: like all of them around like gay people like is

888
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: is my kid gay? What to do? What to do

889
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: with my kids? Gay? Is my is my kids showing

890
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: gay symptoms? Like all the stuff, and then post it's

891
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: all like a gender issue, you know, the cult of

892
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: people trying to get your kid to become trans? Is

893
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: my kid trans? Why is my kid dressing up in

894
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: girls clothes? It's like it's it's such a it's such

895
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: an immediate shift to know if your kid is texing

896
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: transhit all of this homosexual like fear stuff to immediately

897
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: being scared about, like the agenda identity kind of movement,

898
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: and like the cult of transgenderism. Um, yeah, it is,

899
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: it is. It is such a stark, stark change. Heritage

900
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 1: Foundation website is the same. I licked up when they

901
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: added their gender page, and it was in twenty seven, Yeah, exactly.

902
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: That was when they started going after trans things that

903
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: the only thing was like, oh well, it's actually okay

904
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: that there's a pay gap between men and women. In seventeen,

905
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: they were like trans From eighteen, you see a massive

906
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: explosion in all of these in all of these like

907
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 1: stuff about trans and like trans science, whether it be

908
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: like the whether it be like the answers in Genesis,

909
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: whether it be focused with the family, whether it be

910
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: because the Heritage Foundation, all of this stuff. You can watch,

911
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: you watch an immediate shift in the type of stuff

912
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: that they start talking about. I will just say I

913
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: am a little glad they're doing it, not for reasons

914
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: you think, but because this means that they're their kids

915
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: growing up like we grew up, who know that this

916
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: is an option now? Whereas like that is true, we

917
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was an option until we got out.

918
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah is it's yeah, But you can see the kind

919
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: of the switch and stuff. There's a in the in

920
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: a family Research Council pamphlet written by Peter Sprague called

921
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: how to Respond to the LGBTQ Movement Publish. People with

922
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: gender dysphoria or transgender identities are more likely than the

923
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: general population to engage in high risk behaviors, which may

924
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: contribute to psychological disorders or both. The suicide exists among

925
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: those who have already received gender resignment surgery, which exists

926
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: to a siddle tendencies results in an underlying pathology. The

927
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: same people write the script of euphor you but yeah,

928
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of stuff around like Tom Perkins, Peter Sprig.

929
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: If you just look at all of this stuff, it's um,

930
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: this is such a such an explosion. Uh. Tony Perkins

931
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: wrote a pamphlet called I Have a Girl Brain but

932
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: a boy body, um for for for a Virginia kindergarteners

933
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: like a transgender story thing that he was doing around

934
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: thing For years. Lgbt Q activists wanted to keep the

935
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: goal of luring children into sexual confusion under wraps. But

936
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: now that they've hood winked a lot of the country

937
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: on their agenda, these extremists no longer have to hide.

938
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: In fact, they're increasingly bold and even boastful about their

939
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: real intentions of recruiting kids. So in terms of like

940
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: again it's it's it is and it is an infection.

941
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: It's a contagion that they're trying to like infect or

942
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: recruit children. Um and again, all of that kind of

943
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 1: rhetoric is in a post like in a in like

944
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 1: a in a pamphlet call you know about about trans

945
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: about being trans thaying I have a girl brain but

946
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: in a boy body. It's like the fact that they

947
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 1: the Fredwick is happening, it is going to it's gonna

948
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: convince kids that they fall prey to it. Like it's

949
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: this whole, this whole thing that is such a such

950
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: a marked kind of change. Um. You can read, you know.

951
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: The other titles include stuff like the regressive cult of Transgenderism. Um,

952
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff talking about our country understands

953
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: that scientology is a cult, but we don't seem to

954
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: understand is how the much, how much the transition, how

955
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: much the transgender movement mirrors cults like scientology. It's it's

956
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: all of it's all of the same, it's all of

957
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: the same stuff. And the transgender cult is a cult.

958
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: It's the best cult I've been in yet rates like

959
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: I I feel like we need to nobody will give

960
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 1: me sh I can. I can stop doing my weekly

961
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: injections whenever I want to, and you won't. You won't

962
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: lose your friends, No, I will not. So anyway, not

963
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 1: at any point, that was kind of the bulk of

964
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: stuff I had gathered around, specifically talking about kind of

965
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: family family, we uch council and how you know, the

966
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: change happened around from all of the stuff around you know,

967
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: protecting marriage equality, protecting you know, the psychety of marriage

968
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 1: to changing It's like it's the same save the children rhetoric,

969
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: but now shifted over to gender issues, I mean, the

970
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: window because they can't win on the gay issue anymore,

971
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: so they've just got to keep pushing in that direction.

972
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: But it's the same organizing forces. It's the same organizations,

973
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: it's the same mailing lists, it's the same pamphlets, it's

974
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: the same writers, right, it's all the people who wrote

975
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: all the same stuff, just moving it over to trans things.

976
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to kind of lay this groundwork

977
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: for us when we when we talk about kind of

978
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: the ongoing legislative fight against trans people in these next

979
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: few episodes. I just wanted to kind of lay this

980
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: out for an example of talking about Yeah, it is

981
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: really just you know, there was all these fears around

982
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 1: you know, gay people in the change rooms, gay people

983
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: in the bathrooms just gets shifted over to trans people

984
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: in change rooms, trans people in the bathrooms. It's just this,

985
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 1: it's the just moving. It's just this like this running

986
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 1: of the clock that just shifts it over to the

987
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: transgender o' clock. I don't know what before, but it's

988
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: easier to like to pull parental. Right, stuff is on

989
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 1: the rise in the in this community as a talking point,

990
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: and it's always easier to pull that in with trans

991
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: issues than it is with gay issues. Yes, well I

992
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: think that we are running out of time. But even Curan,

993
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: where can people find you online? Our podcast is the

994
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: Kitchen Table Cults. You can find it at Kitchen Table

995
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: cult dot com. Um our handle on Twitter is kitchen

996
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: could Pod. I'm at blue Pep Boy on Twitter, and

997
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: I'm at even Underscore at ginger um. I would also recommend, like,

998
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: if you want to have a like you know, trans

999
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: authors take on the transition. The novel De transition Baby

1000
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 1: is out there, It exists, is again one person's takes.

1001
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: It's not a monolithic thing, but it's a it's a

1002
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: good novel. Um. And then if you want to learn

1003
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: more about the effects of the deconversion therapy universe, UM,

1004
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: Gary Conley's book Boy Race is fucking great. Yep, agreed. Um.

1005
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: I always want to thank you both for coming on

1006
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: to talk about again one of one of the most

1007
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: fun topics. Our favorite people near and dear to near

1008
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: and dear to all of our hearts with featuring friends

1009
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: of the pod James Dobson and his urge to take

1010
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: his kids in the shower with them to compare penises,

1011
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: and our good friend Josh Dogger. Um, Save save the children.

1012
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: Not like that? That all right, that's the That's the episode.

1013
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: Welcome Deck could happen here a podcast about the war

1014
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: against trans people. I'm your host, Christopher Wong. In February,

1015
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: a camp of indigenous and ecological protesters attempting to stop

1016
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: the Thacker past lithium mine in Nevada was thrown into

1017
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: chaos over an unexpected issue, transphobia. Two of the camp activists,

1018
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: including a man who had volunteered to act as an

1019
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: attorney for the group, revealed to be members of another

1020
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: organization called Deep Green Resistance or DGR. Nominally, Deep Green

1021
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: Resistance is an ecological organization dedicated to destroying industrial society

1022
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: to preserve the environment through promoting the destruction of dams

1023
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: and other infrastructure. Deep Green Resistance found little success on

1024
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: this front, but they have been much more successful in

1025
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: spreading the other core of their ideology, miligiant, ruthless and

1026
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: fanatical transphobia. When the Indigenous protesters at Thacker Pass discovered

1027
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: the twos membership in DGR and the result in transphobia,

1028
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: they were furious. Falk the DGR lawyer who had offered

1029
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 1: to represent the protesters, was kicked off the case, and

1030
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: the presence of the two d g R members was

1031
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: used by Lithium America as a weapon against the protesters.

1032
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: This is a familiar cycle for Deep Green Resistance. Soon

1033
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: afterwards founding in two thousand eleven, the group fully embraced

1034
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: radical feminism, staking out a position in an old debate

1035
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: inside the feminist movement raging since the nineteen seventies over

1036
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: whether trans women are in fact women. These feminists, I

1037
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 1: used the term loosely here became known as trans exclusionary.

1038
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: Radical feminists or turfs through heroes were people like Janis Raymond,

1039
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: author of the vehemently transphobics Greed the Transsexual Empire. Raymond,

1040
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: whose BaFL influence will return to next episode, was largely

1041
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: ran out of the mainstream American feminist movement with the

1042
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: rest of her turf companions. A similar fate would befall

1043
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: Deep Green Resistance. Ecological activists in groups like Earth First,

1044
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: Green Peace, the i w W, and the Broader Green

1045
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: Anarchist Movement. Cists and trans alike ran d g R

1046
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: out of the ecological left for the transphobia, and waged

1047
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: an incredibly successful no platforming campaign against d g r's founders,

1048
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: Derek jens in In Leary Keith. Driven from the left

1049
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: so thoroughly they were reduced to slinking into protest camps

1050
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: in secret, only to be expelled upon discovery. Members of

1051
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: Deep Groom Resistance moved right and increasingly to other countries

1052
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 1: to seek an audience for the transphobic bile. Leary Keith

1053
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: founded a turf organization called the Women's Liberation Front or WOLF.

1054
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 1: More on them later. This brings us a turf extraordinaire,

1055
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: Jennifer Billock Black could have been a member of Deep

1056
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 1: Groom Resistance in charge of booking appearances for Derrick Jensen.

1057
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: The success of indow platform in campaign waged by the

1058
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: left confessor that trans people were secretly backed by a

1059
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: conspiracy of billionaires. This idea spread like wildfire across the UK,

1060
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: and as well discussed next episode Mexico. To understand what

1061
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: happened in the UK, we spoke with Krista Peterson, a

1062
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: graduate student at USC who, at significant personal cost, confronted

1063
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: the rise and spread of transphobia and the English speaking world. Krista,

1064
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show and thank you for joining us. Hi,

1065
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: thank you. I guess wanted to start with Jennifer Billick

1066
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: and talking a bit about how how she sort of

1067
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: moved into increasingly increasingly transpoblic territory and I guess how

1068
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: she started moving into the sort of follow the money

1069
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that she's been peddling for the past several

1070
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: years now. Yeah, So I give you her narrative of

1071
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: this UM, which is that in two thousand thirteen, I

1072
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,200
Speaker 1: think she was supposed to be on a panel UM

1073
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:40,440
Speaker 1: about big trans people UM that was canceled because of

1074
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: pushback UM and then because of that, she thought what

1075
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: is the big force behind this and then got into

1076
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: it from there. UM. But she has really I think

1077
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: you know that Deep Green Resistance was kind of into

1078
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: UM focusing on trans people for a while. UM, but

1079
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: she really has gone from an environmental activist as someone

1080
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: who's just solely focused on dreads people. It's basically all

1081
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: she is ever talking about. UM, and she's kind of

1082
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: she started as opposing this kind of existential threat UM

1083
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: that was real, which was ecological destruction to collagon UM,

1084
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: and she has kind of maintained that tenor in the

1085
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: shift where now she's portraying this as an existential threat,

1086
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: but instead of climate change, it's transpeople. So the way

1087
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: she got into the money UM, she's just a very prolific,

1088
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: kind of at home researcher UM, and she kind of

1089
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: had this anti corporate mindset going in from her background,

1090
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: and she she produces a lot of research. There's not

1091
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: that many people in the gender critical movement probably producing

1092
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: a lot of original content, and so when someone is

1093
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 1: there's really they can get a lot of uptake from that. UM.

1094
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: Her mate her saying was it actually a federalist article

1095
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 1: about who are the rich white men institutionalizing transgender ideology. Um,

1096
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: and just by being a pretty big platform. I think

1097
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: that got some big initial distribution, and I think that

1098
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: was how people initially started seeing her kind of beyond

1099
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 1: the deep green resistance type audience. Yeah. No, I mean

1100
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that that's been very interesting

1101
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: to be studying this is that you see this a lot.

1102
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: You see a lot of people who we're sort of

1103
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: run out of left by their transphobia, like pivoting really

1104
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: hard right and then using right wing media platforms and

1105
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: using sort of also writing political backing to start pushing

1106
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: this stuff. And I think, yeah, Bill looks interesting example

1107
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: to me, because yeah, she acs you're talking a bit

1108
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: about this moreman, she has this weird because she she

1109
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: has too weird and goal she has the weird trans

1110
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: humanism angle, and then she has this like incredibly like

1111
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: when becomes like an increasingly anti semitic angle. Yeah. So

1112
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: where she so she's following the money is the original thing?

1113
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: Where she follows the money too, is um, trans rights

1114
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: are a conspiracy to usher and trans humanism. Um. So

1115
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: her thing is she often says transgender is an ad

1116
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 1: campaign for trans humanism. This is a quote. To get

1117
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: people comfortable with actual emerging with machines slash air ai,

1118
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: there must be a complete dissociation for biological reality. So

1119
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: you see this a lot with conspiracy theories, I think,

1120
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: where you have this kind of like metaphorical goal, right,

1121
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: where it's all about getting people to dissociate from their bodies.

1122
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 1: It's like not very clear what that looks like when

1123
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: an actual causal level. Yeah, but that's that's the big goal, right, um,

1124
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: and then they need a big goal. It's there's kind

1125
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: of this mysterious part of this supposed conspiracy UM that

1126
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: is trans rights, which is like what is this for? Right?

1127
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: They lots of people now are accepting that there's like

1128
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: this big dark money push behind it, um, which raises

1129
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,920
Speaker 1: the question why what what is this doing? Um? And

1130
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 1: the answers are kind of cookie right, So this one

1131
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: has caught on more than I would have expected. It's

1132
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: really weird. So they kind of walk into it slowly, right.

1133
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: They start off and it's they think there's something weird

1134
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: with trans rights, and they have it's very common for

1135
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: them to think that their opponents don't really believe their beliefs. Um,

1136
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: something is up and for some reason all these people

1137
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: are supporting trans rights. What they know it's bad that

1138
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 1: you need you need something to go in there to

1139
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 1: played why. And this is a narrative that fits with

1140
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: Billick's worldview. You know, you can see how some with

1141
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: her background would get here. It's kind of unusual for

1142
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: all these ladies from the UK now to believe that

1143
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,959
Speaker 1: trans people are trans human conspiracy, but they needed something

1144
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 1: to go there as the goal they picked it up. Yeah,

1145
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: I guess I guess we should get into Mom's net

1146
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: a little bit because most that's a really weird, like

1147
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:38,640
Speaker 1: specifically UK thing that I don't know if there's like

1148
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: there's not really an American equivalent to it, Like I

1149
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: guess it's like it's like it's like what if you

1150
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 1: took the worst parts of Facebook ends next door? I guess. Yeah.

1151
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about like what Mom's

1152
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,919
Speaker 1: Net is and how this stuff sorted sorted seeping into it? Yeah,

1153
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: So this is part of this bigger question, which is

1154
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 1: like why in the UK has taken off so much

1155
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: in the way it has a big part of that

1156
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: story is moms That, which is a website for moms

1157
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: um to ask kind of parenting questions UM, and it's

1158
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: really widely used, I think, especially among this kind of

1159
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:20,560
Speaker 1: like white, upper middle class educated population. A lot of

1160
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: people are on moms and it's kind of a trusted

1161
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: website for a lot of familial type things like advice

1162
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 1: about what to do when your kid has life, things

1163
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: like that, and Moms has become just like the main

1164
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: infection point I think in the gender critical movement that okay,

1165
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: with why it happens more generally, you have to look

1166
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: at it as kind of part of this global resurgence

1167
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: and fascism around the same time period. It's like the

1168
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: mids on UM, you know, like the most obvious instances

1169
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 1: of that have the kind of traditional fascist targets and ideals. UM.

1170
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: I think what's essential is this kind of logic that

1171
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 1: you really see in the gender critical movement also, which

1172
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 1: as you have this kind of background climate of anxiety

1173
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: and fear, then you get this narrative that's minorities are

1174
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: rising up against you. You've lost something, your identity used

1175
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: to give you a special status, and now they're taking

1176
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: it from you and you have to fight back. UM.

1177
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,600
Speaker 1: And it's how they've kind of switched out, like what

1178
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: the big identity is who the minorities are, what the

1179
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: special status is with this more feminist thing. But it

1180
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 1: really does have that kind of internal logic in the

1181
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 1: same way. Um, And I think you just had this

1182
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: kind of moment globally where you have the kind of

1183
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: background emotional state that was ripe for fascism in a

1184
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and then this ideology was just infectious

1185
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: in that way. And then in Mom's night it was

1186
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: able to catch um and it really provided run it

1187
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: with this place where really grow uh into this kind

1188
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: of a waal demographic group or a kind of fascist moment. Yeah,

1189
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's there's there's an interesting I

1190
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: think there's The other interesting thing to me about it

1191
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know, I've been thinking about this

1192
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: a lot in terms of, yeah, why why specifically the

1193
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 1: UK and why the US doesn't have this? And I mean,

1194
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I mean, I guess one one

1195
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: explanation for it partly is like the US is so

1196
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: much more religious than the UK is and a lot

1197
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: of these people sort of would have been evangelicals in

1198
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: like in the US. But but yeah, I think the

1199
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:41,880
Speaker 1: months that angles interesting to me in that it really

1200
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: seems like because there's so few people publishing anything that's

1201
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 1: even remotely tangible, like a very very small number of

1202
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,559
Speaker 1: actors were able to very quickly radicalize people. And I think,

1203
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I think it's interesting that like

1204
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: like people like Jesse gall like I think, wind up

1205
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: being much more influential in the UK than they are

1206
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:06,560
Speaker 1: in the U s even so they're getting sort of

1207
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: published in these US publications because there's sort of I

1208
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 1: don't know, I guess there's there's this like hunger for

1209
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: it on Mom's naight, like for for anything that sort

1210
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: of supports his world view in a way that there's

1211
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: kind of wasn't in the US. I think part of why,

1212
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: like the y UK question, there's some part of it

1213
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: that's just kind of by chance moms that existed was

1214
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: a place where it could really take off. But I

1215
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: think also to some extent, like you're aldic to think

1216
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 1: kind of part of the relevant group in the US

1217
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: is like a little more inoculated against this stuff. I

1218
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: mean that it doesn't really have the same initial appeal

1219
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 1: among women who would like to contrue construe themselves as

1220
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 1: feminists because many many Americans see anti trend stuff and

1221
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 1: immediately um connected to like the religious right, So it

1222
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: doesn't you don't really get the initial way into it

1223
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 1: where you know, you come across this thing presenting transpeople

1224
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: as encroaching on your space and taking something from you,

1225
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 1: and for us, we see that and it's like, oh yeah,

1226
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: bathroom bill laws really just had this a few years

1227
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: ago and it was this right wing religious thing. We

1228
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 1: know what this is. The UK has kind of had

1229
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: a more prominent turf act division for a little while

1230
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: in that Julie Bendel kind of long ben a thing there,

1231
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,600
Speaker 1: but it wasn't really catching in the same way it

1232
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: is now really caught. Yeah, I guess, I mean, what

1233
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: are the other things that I was talking I had

1234
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:47,879
Speaker 1: an interesting conversation that sadly didn't wind up getting recorded,

1235
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: but I was talking with some Mexican feminists, like trans

1236
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 1: feminist about this, and one of the things they were

1237
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 1: saying was the way like talking about the way like

1238
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: intersectionality is a framework and the fact that there was

1239
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 1: there was an incredibly strong black feminist current in the

1240
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: US insulated like the main line of of American feminism

1241
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,679
Speaker 1: from this stuff in a way that didn't really happen

1242
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 1: in the UK because like the black feminist movement there

1243
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: is just not as strong and not as sort of mainstream,

1244
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: and that has this knock on effect. I guess we're

1245
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: like you get you know, without an intersectionality framework, is

1246
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: it's easier to have this sort of like totalizing like

1247
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: identity of like the woman as like a thing that's

1248
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: just one object that you can like pin down to

1249
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: biological barkers, instead of having to sort of like look

1250
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: at all of the different actual relations that are going on. Yes,

1251
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 1: so my read on them is that most of them

1252
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,720
Speaker 1: are not really we're not pre existing feminists. There are

1253
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 1: not people who are very interested in women's rights. And

1254
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 1: then kind of took this turn and my pressures that

1255
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: they're largely people who really started identifying as feminists once

1256
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 1: that that could be a guys to kind of taking

1257
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,799
Speaker 1: things out on trans people. Um, and I think probably

1258
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,720
Speaker 1: why it was able to get so big on Mom's Net.

1259
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: So eventually the women's rights for my Mom's Net, which

1260
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 1: is just one of those subboards, in addition to all

1261
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: the childcare stuff, just became almost all anti trans stuff.

1262
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: And so that is partially this stuff was popular, but

1263
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: I also I think that you know, normal mainstream feminist

1264
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: stuff wasn't as popular and they weren't getting a lot

1265
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:34,840
Speaker 1: of engagement on normal important feminist issues, um, and instead

1266
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: this was what their user base was really going for.

1267
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: It's really striking, I think how those exceptions, um. But

1268
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 1: in general, the big gender critical people talk very very

1269
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: little about all feminist issues, like this is the thing

1270
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: they care about always all the time. Yeah, yeah, that's

1271
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: definitely a pattern. What turfs. So it's like yeah, once once,

1272
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 1: once you're a turf, like this is the only thing

1273
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: you care about, Like don't you don't do Yeah, I mean,

1274
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: I guess like one of one of the we'll talk

1275
01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: more about this in the next episode, but one of

1276
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 1: the sort of big like flagship things in in like

1277
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: with the UK and Ireland, was like a bunch of

1278
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: the Turfs getting extremely mad at the at at these end,

1279
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: at the at the pro like at the pro abortion

1280
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 1: activists in UH in Ireland because they weren't being Turfs,

1281
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,880
Speaker 1: and so the other the Turfs were like, no, no, no,

1282
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: we're gonna like try to sabotage this, the actual feminist

1283
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,439
Speaker 1: movement trying to get access to abortions because we're turfs

1284
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: and they're not. Yeah, they could be really devidictive against

1285
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 1: women who they say are like selling out women's rights

1286
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,560
Speaker 1: by focusing on anything other than the tiny present of

1287
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: the population that is trans is v one issue you're

1288
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 1: allowed to focus on and if you say, like no,

1289
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: please please leave us alone, we're focusing on something else.

1290
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:14,759
Speaker 1: Really do not think that wom I guess the everything

1291
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about was because I think the

1292
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:19,439
Speaker 1: everything that happened in the UK that only really started

1293
01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 1: happening in the US like pretty recently, and even then

1294
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,400
Speaker 1: was kind of like it was an event in like

1295
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: a way that I don't know how much it was

1296
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,800
Speaker 1: in the UK. Is the extent to which like people

1297
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,600
Speaker 1: like J. K Rowling and like the sort of the

1298
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: sort of mainstream of British famous people and like the

1299
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:43,920
Speaker 1: British British journalists stuff like that like like start started

1300
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: rallying around this stuff. Yeah, this is It's been wild

1301
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: for me seeing I don't think super highly of the

1302
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 1: American media, but seeing how much worse the British media

1303
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 1: is really will they just have been publishing stuff things

1304
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 1: like The Times of London have been the worst, with

1305
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: more conservative Eletto especially bad. But even you know, like

1306
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: the Guardian was in some BBC since some uh, these

1307
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,360
Speaker 1: things are just kind of like demonstrably false coverage of

1308
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 1: transmit stuff that just gives a lot of credence to

1309
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:26,639
Speaker 1: this transphobic movement. UM. It's kind of this like near

1310
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: blackout of in serious consideration of what trans people are

1311
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: experiencing UM and what their actual position on this stuff is.

1312
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: It's just really grim. I think I think part of

1313
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: it is maybe that moms that did have this reach

1314
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:46,880
Speaker 1: to a lot of people who are like professionals. Their

1315
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 1: audience is pretty professional, and it was it's kind of

1316
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 1: trusted website where this guy normalized a lot. The last

1317
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to talk about before UM we go

1318
01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: to break is do you want to talk about Kathleen

1319
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 1: Stock and that whole thing a little bit? Yes, Okay,

1320
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: Also we should talk about um we should connect Billick too.

1321
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah, yeah, we should. We should do that first. Yeah.

1322
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,639
Speaker 1: So that is there was, you know moms that started UM.

1323
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 1: I think the initial narrative was kind of trans people

1324
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 1: are being really unreasonable, they're really demanding, they're infringing on

1325
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:28,640
Speaker 1: our status. This is the thing that was more localized

1326
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: about this group that was easy to cast as unreasonable, um,

1327
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 1: and they were able to take kind of a victim's

1328
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 1: stance relative to them. And then it just kind of

1329
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: kept estialating, right, it just kind of fiction it too,

1330
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: more and more of this kind of content, and then

1331
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 1: eventually there, Yeah, there really was a great site, this

1332
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: kind of anti trans content, and it just got increasingly conspiratorial.

1333
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 1: I think so people at this point, I think almost

1334
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: everyone in the gender court movement thinks that there's dark

1335
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 1: money behind trans rights. They think it's like some kind

1336
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 1: of AstroTurf movement for who knows what. Lots of them

1337
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:15,640
Speaker 1: will say the goal is like selling you know, hormones

1338
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:25,760
Speaker 1: and surgery to people. What it's funding, you know, a

1339
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 1: global conspiracy. It's like pretty expensive and how it's like

1340
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: the most plausible way to get an audience for this

1341
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um. But Jennifer Billick is what a

1342
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 1: relatively few people get doing this kind of deep research. Um.

1343
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: And so it's just kind of kind of the kind

1344
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: of thing they were looking for. And they have pretty

1345
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: minimal bullshit filters about what they're willing to see. Um,

1346
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 1: it's just pretty rare that they we'll see a source

1347
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: that seems to be on their side and be like, no,

1348
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with us UM. And so she increasingly

1349
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: got fans and a lot of people hear her stuff secondhand.

1350
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 1: I think they're not directivating her, but people are repeating

1351
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,040
Speaker 1: her on so much of her stuff now is part

1352
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 1: of the just the background of this movement. Like there's

1353
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: this woman, Martin rothblatt Um who's it's kind of a

1354
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: random rich woman who was she was involved in kind

1355
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: of early trans rights activism UM, and I kind of

1356
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: moved on and got interested in trans humanism stuff instead.

1357
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: She's like kind of a stratulating um and she is

1358
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: interested in trans humanism stuff and rich um and is

1359
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:56,680
Speaker 1: not the architect of the Transferts movement. But now you know,

1360
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:00,559
Speaker 1: they just all I think that this person has central

1361
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 1: role UM and when you see them talking about her,

1362
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: it is Jennifer Billick's influence. And they just don't have

1363
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: they're they just don't have many defenses against kind of

1364
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 1: increasingly radicalized stuff. And when I started kind of looking

1365
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 1: into Jennifer and I started seeing her and get you know,

1366
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 1: when you see people talking about a conspiracy of people

1367
01:21:27,960 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 1: like George Soros, Jennifer Printsker Jewish. Roth Blatt is also Jewish.

1368
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 1: There there's a red flag and in conspiracy spaces just

1369
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: kind of tends towards anti Semitism if you're not on

1370
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: the lookout for and if you're not defend against it.

1371
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 1: And billicks not and she has gotten increasingly into anti

1372
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: Semitic side of things, um, up to the point where

1373
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:02,839
Speaker 1: she was boosting Heath Woods, who is just a Nazi

1374
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:07,920
Speaker 1: his content that was largely inspired by her work UM

1375
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 1: about the Jews behind the transgender movement UM and just

1376
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: taking kind of going from its kind of non explicit

1377
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:21,400
Speaker 1: anti Semitic conspiracy theory where you have this group of

1378
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: people who happened to be largely filled with Jewish people

1379
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 1: kind of orchestrating this global conspiracy to explicitly naming the

1380
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 1: Jew and saying no, this is a Jewish movement um.

1381
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, and she just like followed it all the way. UM.

1382
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:43,320
Speaker 1: And there was some I started making a big deal

1383
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: about this, you know, there was some pushback from the

1384
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: general critical movement UM, but largely and they think I'm

1385
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,920
Speaker 1: like a bad faith acting right on the enemy. It's

1386
01:22:55,560 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: they're not gonna take anything I say really seriously. Um,

1387
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 1: but also it was really struck by how some of

1388
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: them were arguing with me about this Keith Woods video

1389
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 1: that was, you know, about how this was just a

1390
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 1: Jewish pot and why the Jewish religion would inspire uses

1391
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 1: do something like this, and they say, no, this is

1392
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: an anti Semitic there's nothing you know, it's just it's

1393
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,559
Speaker 1: very interesting it's about Judaism, because they already believed all

1394
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 1: the background stuff, right, they thought that there was in

1395
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:30,960
Speaker 1: fact this conspiracy that's populated by people who happened to

1396
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:33,759
Speaker 1: be Jewish, and so then when you take the explicit step,

1397
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: it's they're like, well, yeah, there's an interesting question, right,

1398
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: why are all these people Jewish interest going all the way.

1399
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: But it's just and yeah, it's just in general, the

1400
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: movement is just really not have good defenses against this

1401
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: kind of stuff at all. And yeah, this kind of

1402
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:57,080
Speaker 1: conspiratorial stuff will take you there if you don't have

1403
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:02,000
Speaker 1: defenses against it. It's just a very old road that

1404
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:04,680
Speaker 1: comes in exactly that direction that is ready for you

1405
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: if you start getting into this stuff and aren't watching

1406
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:09,120
Speaker 1: out for it. Yeah, all right, so lets let's let's

1407
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: let's let's let's talk about Kathleen Stock philosophies horror child.

1408
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, so I need not just Kathleen, but you have.

1409
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:25,759
Speaker 1: One of the things that is noteworthy about the movement

1410
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: I think is you have these this unusual prominence of academics,

1411
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: one of them being Kathleen Stock, maybe the most prominent

1412
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 1: being Kathleen Stock UM, but also like Rosa Freeman and

1413
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 1: Selena's hod and you have this kind of academic face

1414
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:44,560
Speaker 1: of it. And it's very interesting I think how that

1415
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 1: works UM, and that these people are in generally not

1416
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:56,120
Speaker 1: doing kind of substantive research on anything related to this UM. Instead,

1417
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 1: what I see is, you know, stuff starts out in

1418
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: the community. UM. It's like on mom's dad, it's on Twitter,

1419
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:07,600
Speaker 1: and then Kathleen Stock picks it up, right, She is

1420
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 1: getting her stuff kind of from mom's dad and stuff,

1421
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: and then just legitimizing it. Right. It's like, oh, this

1422
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:19,680
Speaker 1: is what these fancy professors think. And then centrally their

1423
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 1: role is claiming that there are all these serious issues

1424
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 1: on the basis of their academic status UM and saying

1425
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 1: that trans people aren't willing to discuss it. You know,

1426
01:25:29,240 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 1: trans people are shutting down debate, they're being silenced, and

1427
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: it gives it this legitimacy that the movement I think

1428
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: really capitalizes on. Yeah, which I think with Stock in particular.

1429
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: You know there part part of what's happening is like

1430
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: the anti transsequent kind of like moves between different conservative

1431
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 1: panics and so like like the bottom one, they're on

1432
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 1: the stay of the children panic. But when Stock was

1433
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,600
Speaker 1: sort of like getting big and you can see this

1434
01:25:58,680 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 1: with the end of a career arc uh She'll get

1435
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: to in a second. But she was big on the

1436
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 1: whole sort of like like conservative callus canceled, like college

1437
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: free speech crisis, like can I guess sort of cancer

1438
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 1: culture also, But yeah, she was really big on the

1439
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,400
Speaker 1: on the whole, like, yeah, the conservatives are being silence

1440
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:20,920
Speaker 1: or like not even sort of like I think she

1441
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:25,840
Speaker 1: was kind of doing the like liberal centrist thing, but

1442
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 1: but she was. Yeah, she she was doing all these

1443
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 1: censorship claims and then turning around and just actually censor people. Yeah. Yeah,

1444
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 1: I gave a talk at Sussex cathletex University that I

1445
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:51,000
Speaker 1: believe she tried to have canceled. Come on. It was

1446
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: just kind of interesting rix. I. Initially this talk was

1447
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: kind of scheduled as a protest at the same time

1448
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 1: as one of her as talks she was going to

1449
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:03,679
Speaker 1: give on a related topic, um, and then she canceled

1450
01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: her talk. So I thought she might come to mind, right,

1451
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:08,600
Speaker 1: like free to bay, like ask me questions, and I

1452
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 1: was like okay, but of course she didn't, right Instead, See,

1453
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,479
Speaker 1: I tried to just get it shut down. But I

1454
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 1: think this is Yeah, it's one kind of the cancel

1455
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: culture thing is kind of one element, but I think

1456
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 1: it's really central and a lot of their stuff, um,

1457
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 1: and that the kind of in the background of other

1458
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 1: stuff is like you know, somehow the consensus has been controlled,

1459
01:27:33,360 --> 01:27:36,680
Speaker 1: and like it's the result of like the truth not

1460
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:40,519
Speaker 1: being heard and people not considering all these important things

1461
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: that they need to consider, kind of from care for

1462
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 1: trans youth too, you know, trans woman being able to

1463
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: use the bathroom. Kind of across all this, they're running

1464
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,920
Speaker 1: this narrative that the truth has been silenced and you know,

1465
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 1: trans people are being unreasonable and have shut it down.

1466
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 1: I think that is like pretty foundational. And the other

1467
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:09,600
Speaker 1: overall narrative they've built, yeah, and and it and you

1468
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:13,120
Speaker 1: see this as like this is one of the ways

1469
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 1: they try to I guess rest the batchful of authority

1470
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 1: back from literally every actual medical group who all agree

1471
01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,880
Speaker 1: that you should actually let kids transition and you should

1472
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:30,719
Speaker 1: let adults transition, and that this is in fact good

1473
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:36,720
Speaker 1: and like a thing that medically is is like and

1474
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: then like I said, yeah, I mean this isn't this

1475
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: is a huge deal. But so, like Catholt Sog is

1476
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: a philosopher, right, and so she started off her first

1477
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 1: thing was, like, something is a funt in academic philosophy.

1478
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: You know, academic philosophers aren't debating whether trans women or

1479
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 1: women in the way that they should. This idea that

1480
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:59,559
Speaker 1: the debates being silenced in philosophy, you know, like doesn't

1481
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 1: have really important consequences. I think the idea that like

1482
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:08,960
Speaker 1: all of mainstream research on trans healthcare and like what

1483
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 1: is in the good in the best interests of trans

1484
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 1: kids being able to diligitimize that is really serious, right,

1485
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 1: that it just has these tremendous consequences. I think they've

1486
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:25,320
Speaker 1: been able to be pretty effective on that too. Yeah,

1487
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,519
Speaker 1: And that's been really scary in a lot of ways

1488
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: because you see like the arguments of these people pioneered

1489
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,760
Speaker 1: and the sort of the techniques and the groups that

1490
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:38,640
Speaker 1: they're part of like wind up being core parts of

1491
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 1: the anti trans push in both the UK and the US.

1492
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:47,680
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's extremely scary. It's really scary. I mean,

1493
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:51,559
Speaker 1: it's just it's just awful, like these are these are

1494
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:56,439
Speaker 1: children and for them to become the focus of this

1495
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:00,080
Speaker 1: kind of hate movement is just horrifying. And it's m

1496
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 1: just offen. The you know, the history of healthcare for

1497
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: general conforming kids is really grim, and its like they

1498
01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 1: are just pushing to kind of go back there, and

1499
01:30:15,400 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: it's just ghastly. It's really horrifying to see. Yeah, I

1500
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: guess I think that's a that's a good point. We

1501
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: can Okay, this is probably should probably be the second

1502
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 1: AD break, But yeah, do you know what else is

1503
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 1: horrifying ads? And we're back? Um what one of the

1504
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,160
Speaker 1: scariest parts I think of what was happening in the

1505
01:30:54,280 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 1: UK was the extent to which I mean not just

1506
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,920
Speaker 1: mainstream British media gets involved in this, but I mean

1507
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:05,680
Speaker 1: literally the BBC, which is which is the you know this,

1508
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 1: this is this is the state media organization right starts

1509
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 1: to just push unbelievably transphobic articles out as just regular contents. Um.

1510
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 1: I think I think the probably the most famous one

1511
01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 1: is Yeah, in in October, BBC publishes this article that's

1512
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: called We're being pressured into sex by some trans women.

1513
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:45,919
Speaker 1: That is just an just just an absolutely appalling display

1514
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 1: of of transphobia. Um. Yeah, can you talk a little

1515
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:55,560
Speaker 1: bit about that? And yeah, So the this article was

1516
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 1: framed around the question is a lesbian transphobic if she

1517
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 1: does not want to have sex with trans women? Some

1518
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 1: lesbians say they are increasingly being pressured and coerced into

1519
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 1: accepting trans women as partners. Um. And so the the

1520
01:32:09,120 --> 01:32:12,960
Speaker 1: over arching perspective in the piece that you get is

1521
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:17,600
Speaker 1: that this is a significant problem among lesbians. They're experiencing

1522
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 1: sexual pressure from trans women. Um. The kind of reporting

1523
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:27,200
Speaker 1: strategy that the reporter used was, you know, just soliciting

1524
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:32,240
Speaker 1: this one kind of particular narrative from lesbians who said

1525
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 1: that they had had these kind of experiences with trans women. Um.

1526
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:38,599
Speaker 1: The people who are quoted in the article who aren't

1527
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:42,800
Speaker 1: anonymous are general critical people, right, They're like Rose of Don,

1528
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:47,600
Speaker 1: Debbie Hayden. And then there's these anonymous women who we

1529
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:51,599
Speaker 1: don't know who they are. Um, but it's not they

1530
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 1: didn't go and approach you know, normal mainstream lesbian activists

1531
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 1: or lesbian organizations to see like what they were experiencing

1532
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 1: the community, Right, there's kind of no perspective just from

1533
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: any kind of mainstream lesbian or relations at all. That

1534
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: that was one of the things that like sort of

1535
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 1: haunting about this, Like this journalist is working on this

1536
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 1: for age, like I think it was like and like

1537
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 1: like she was specifically trying to find this people, these

1538
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: people like people who like had to experienced a specific

1539
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:25,000
Speaker 1: thing and like no normal but she couldn't find normal

1540
01:33:25,080 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 1: people because it's not a thing. And so she she

1541
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: after like many many years, she was able to find

1542
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 1: like a couple of examples, like a few examples and

1543
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 1: mostly from yeah, just open transpops. And the article is

1544
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:44,000
Speaker 1: just like so conceptually sloppy that it doesn't distinguish, you know,

1545
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,680
Speaker 1: theoretical discourse about whether you know, it's transphobic to just

1546
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,639
Speaker 1: say out of hand you never date a trans woman.

1547
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't distinguish this from sexual abuse. It just kind

1548
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 1: of takes for granted that they're just saying in kind

1549
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:03,720
Speaker 1: of an abstract theoretical contact um that's some's like just

1550
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:05,960
Speaker 1: saying that you won't ever sleep with a trans woman

1551
01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 1: saying that that is transphobic is itself treated as akin

1552
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 1: to pressuring someone into sex, right like that. Yeah, journalism

1553
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 1: that doesn't distinguish between just a conversation about sexual issues

1554
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: and sexual abuse is just disastrous. There's just something serious

1555
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:27,800
Speaker 1: about this piece, and it's just kind of throughout it

1556
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:31,719
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, like like one of other things about

1557
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:36,560
Speaker 1: this is so they found like a survey, right, the

1558
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 1: journalists went looking for a survey about like like what

1559
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:44,599
Speaker 1: percentage of lesbians have like encountered this encountered this pressure,

1560
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 1: and the only thing they could find was, well, okay,

1561
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 1: the only thing they could find that would like support

1562
01:34:51,400 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 1: their actual claim was this this poll from this group

1563
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 1: called get Out the l which is just like a

1564
01:34:58,240 --> 01:35:01,679
Speaker 1: group that whose entire purpose is just being anti trans

1565
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: people and trying to get rid of them. Yeah, And

1566
01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:06,000
Speaker 1: it was just it was just like it was it

1567
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 1: was like a Twitter poll, right, it was it was

1568
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:12,680
Speaker 1: like they're they're they're publishing as as statistical evidence for

1569
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,400
Speaker 1: their claim a Twitter poll from a from a turf

1570
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:18,720
Speaker 1: group and trying to like claim this is serious journalism,

1571
01:35:18,760 --> 01:35:21,600
Speaker 1: and it's just yeah, I mean so literally, on the

1572
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:25,560
Speaker 1: page of the statistic they cite in this report. The

1573
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:30,320
Speaker 1: report approvingly cites Janice Raymond saying about all trans sexuals

1574
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 1: rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to

1575
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 1: an artifact. And so like, are we talking about metaphors

1576
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: here or are we talking about social abuse? It's just

1577
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:47,240
Speaker 1: sick And so what of the people who was interviewed

1578
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 1: in this um was Lily Cade, who was an adult

1579
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 1: performer and again throughout this just a trans woman saying

1580
01:35:58,360 --> 01:36:01,639
Speaker 1: that the way someone is reading her in a sexual

1581
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 1: context is transphobic, is itself treated as sexually abusive? Um?

1582
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 1: So Lilly Cade, you know, she refused to think initially

1583
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 1: she refused to be in a scene with a trans woman.

1584
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:22,480
Speaker 1: The later on also refused to m shoot a transpmant

1585
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,599
Speaker 1: at all, um when she was working as a producer. Um.

1586
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:29,720
Speaker 1: So they kind of get a quote from Lily you know,

1587
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 1: saying something about women being pressured into sex by trans woman.

1588
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:39,920
Speaker 1: And it turns out that Lily Cade was pushed out

1589
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,680
Speaker 1: of the adult industry because she's like a serial rapist. Right,

1590
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:47,799
Speaker 1: So this is there source on whether this is problem

1591
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 1: for assist woman is herself as this woman who is

1592
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:56,160
Speaker 1: a serial rapist, right, And they're using this person to

1593
01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:04,679
Speaker 1: portray trans woman is the victimizers, and it's just so grim. Yeah,

1594
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 1: most of it is just like haunting. Like one of

1595
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 1: the other things that came out was like part of

1596
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,160
Speaker 1: the stories that they said that like no prominent trans

1597
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 1: women would speak with them for the story, and then

1598
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:17,120
Speaker 1: a prominent trans woman was like, no, you guys interviewed me,

1599
01:37:17,320 --> 01:37:19,600
Speaker 1: and that didn't include it in the article. Yeah, So

1600
01:37:19,720 --> 01:37:23,000
Speaker 1: this was one of the people who literally Kate had

1601
01:37:23,040 --> 01:37:28,320
Speaker 1: had a conflict with, was Chelsea powe Um, another woman

1602
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 1: important who had asked if Lily Um she could work

1603
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:36,000
Speaker 1: really his company, and Lily said no because she was trans.

1604
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: So they talked Chelsea was is it reasonably prominent person um?

1605
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 1: And they interviewed her, didn't include her in the article.

1606
01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:50,080
Speaker 1: She says that she told them that Lily had this

1607
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:56,640
Speaker 1: predatory past. They also didn't say anything about that. And

1608
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 1: so we have the situation where we have this person

1609
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:04,599
Speaker 1: who is this this woman who the author has been

1610
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:09,599
Speaker 1: told is a serial sexual predator being presented as kind

1611
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:14,960
Speaker 1: of an authority on women's sexual victimization supposedly by trans woman.

1612
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 1: She is the victimized and not only is she a

1613
01:38:21,360 --> 01:38:25,440
Speaker 1: serial sexual predator. But she's like specifically attacked people in bathrooms.

1614
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:30,920
Speaker 1: But she's like the famous fearmongering transphobic thing is that

1615
01:38:31,240 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 1: trans people are going to attack you in the bathroom

1616
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:39,240
Speaker 1: in the venus, your sources attack people in bathrooms, And

1617
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 1: there's just very little interest like how women are actually

1618
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,880
Speaker 1: victimized and by who. Yeah, and I think like that

1619
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:51,920
Speaker 1: that's amused to disturbing party. She's like, this isn't just

1620
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: like a negligency of reporting. Think here, this is just malice.

1621
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:59,000
Speaker 1: Like if you are told anything, it's like it's not

1622
01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 1: it's not like it was hard to like find out

1623
01:39:02,520 --> 01:39:04,679
Speaker 1: that that you know, it's okay, so someone someone tells

1624
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:08,080
Speaker 1: you that someone else is an abusive, right, it's like okay,

1625
01:39:08,240 --> 01:39:11,240
Speaker 1: Like maybe you're a journalist, maybe you're going to be like, oh,

1626
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:15,120
Speaker 1: I should check this out. Like Lily Cage assaulted so

1627
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:17,439
Speaker 1: many people and like rape so many people that like

1628
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 1: just scrolling through Twitter, I found multiple people who have

1629
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,600
Speaker 1: been abused by her, Like this was this was not

1630
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:27,120
Speaker 1: something that was like like she she'd admitted it in public.

1631
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:28,800
Speaker 1: This is not something that was hard to find right,

1632
01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: And and I just want to underline that, which is

1633
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:36,200
Speaker 1: that Billy Kay. After these accusations really got going, she

1634
01:39:36,360 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 1: did like publicly and she did not deny, and then

1635
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:44,439
Speaker 1: she retired from porn. Yeah, and and and you know,

1636
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:48,200
Speaker 1: and this is something like the BBC does this, They

1637
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:50,280
Speaker 1: do this weird backtracking at this article comes out and

1638
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:54,360
Speaker 1: everyone gets exurely mad at them. But they refused to

1639
01:39:54,439 --> 01:39:56,720
Speaker 1: release the like the tape of the interview they had

1640
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:58,639
Speaker 1: to with Chelsea Poe, which you know, would have proved

1641
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:01,439
Speaker 1: that Chelsea Pope did in fact tell them that Lilli

1642
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:03,799
Speaker 1: k was a rapist, and they published the story anyways,

1643
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 1: and there's there's so much of this stuff was like yeah,

1644
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:11,040
Speaker 1: like the they the way they backtrack about it, the

1645
01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 1: way that also like so the two places where this thing,

1646
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,920
Speaker 1: the story ran was the BBC in Britain and they

1647
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 1: syndicated it out to Brazil and a few of the

1648
01:40:21,040 --> 01:40:24,560
Speaker 1: places that were like that are incredibly transphobic, and it

1649
01:40:24,720 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: ran like and just like right in Brazil, like ran

1650
01:40:28,240 --> 01:40:30,280
Speaker 1: as a bunch of mainstream news headlines like where like

1651
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:32,160
Speaker 1: news stories and in the major newspapers like ran this

1652
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 1: and it was I don't know, like there there's there's

1653
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:39,759
Speaker 1: there's this extent to which yeah, like you're watching British

1654
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 1: state media decide that they actively just want to go

1655
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 1: to war on trans people and they literally just do

1656
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:51,639
Speaker 1: not care that like they are, you know, publishing little rapists.

1657
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I just just the BBC's policy now

1658
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:59,559
Speaker 1: is when we interview those responsible for ani social behavioral crime,

1659
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 1: it made us to cause distress to victims, and we

1660
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:06,560
Speaker 1: should contact victims and advise them of our plans. You

1661
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 1: know what a viewing criminals. Care must be taken to

1662
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:11,320
Speaker 1: minimize potential of stress this may cause to victims of

1663
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 1: the crime. They they didn't see Lily as this applying

1664
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 1: to her, right, This is uh, this woman who they

1665
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:24,840
Speaker 1: have been told is a sexual predator. You can find

1666
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:28,280
Speaker 1: this information. I found it pretty quickly, all of these

1667
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:31,759
Speaker 1: victims talking about it, her acknowledging it, and they didn't

1668
01:41:32,479 --> 01:41:37,439
Speaker 1: identify this this woman as a predator with victims who

1669
01:41:37,479 --> 01:41:42,200
Speaker 1: would be like very plausibly upset by seeing their rapists

1670
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 1: treated as an authority. Sexual abuse, right, and this is

1671
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 1: kind of pervasive, I think in the gender critical movement

1672
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 1: right where if any of you are out there, I'm

1673
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 1: sure you're thinking women can't be rapists. Rape requires a penis,

1674
01:41:58,760 --> 01:42:02,200
Speaker 1: which is in the Okay, it's kind of a you know,

1675
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 1: most fem is considered this a pretty reactionary way to

1676
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 1: define rape, where it has to be um penetration with

1677
01:42:09,160 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: a penis, and this isn't reflective of you know, how

1678
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:19,280
Speaker 1: women experience sexual assault that it's just kind of totally

1679
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:24,680
Speaker 1: other category UM. And most countries feminism consider it quite

1680
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 1: important that you don't kind of treat this as this

1681
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:34,800
Speaker 1: like categorically different offense UM. But the general curtal really

1682
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,800
Speaker 1: pushes this perspective where it is literally impossible for women

1683
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:44,920
Speaker 1: to commit ray, you know. And this is they think

1684
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:48,800
Speaker 1: that when they a brief period where they thought that

1685
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:53,960
Speaker 1: they had identified like that every rape that was recorded

1686
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:56,960
Speaker 1: as committed by a woman was trans woman because they

1687
01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:00,680
Speaker 1: thought that it required apenis and they thought it that

1688
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 1: was the only way it's possible and so you can

1689
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:06,320
Speaker 1: actually be convicted of it if you were aiding and abetting.

1690
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:08,720
Speaker 1: I think they thought that they had all these this

1691
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,200
Speaker 1: and they just have this overall perspective where it is

1692
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:16,320
Speaker 1: literally impossible for you know, they say a woman meaning

1693
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 1: the assist woman to commit a sexual offense, and into

1694
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:26,360
Speaker 1: this they create cover for sis woman predators like it

1695
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:32,439
Speaker 1: creates this context where that their victimization just disappears. People

1696
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:37,760
Speaker 1: can't even acknowledge it. And yeah, and like I think

1697
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:41,160
Speaker 1: like the the extent to which this whole movement is

1698
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:45,200
Speaker 1: built on violence and it is built any and there

1699
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:47,160
Speaker 1: are so many people that the that the general critical

1700
01:43:47,200 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 1: people work with who are abusers. There are you know,

1701
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: And I like, I want to come back to the

1702
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:55,720
Speaker 1: last piece of the Lily Kid thing, which is that

1703
01:43:55,800 --> 01:43:58,599
Speaker 1: after this article came out, the BBC initially basically didn't

1704
01:43:58,600 --> 01:44:02,479
Speaker 1: do anything right even that to the rape out. Yes, yeah,

1705
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 1: and then literally Kay published one of like one of

1706
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,719
Speaker 1: the most transphobic things I've ever encountered in my life,

1707
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:20,680
Speaker 1: like a a just this it gets called a manifesto,

1708
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:24,160
Speaker 1: Like I don't think like a manifesto. It was terrified. Yeah,

1709
01:44:24,280 --> 01:44:28,439
Speaker 1: Like she she's she she's explicitly like like like name

1710
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 1: specific trans women that she wants lynched. Like there's a

1711
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:34,880
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff about the people she wants raped. She

1712
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,599
Speaker 1: wants like she wants all trans people to die. Uh,

1713
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,719
Speaker 1: there's a there's a bunch of there's like really racist stuff.

1714
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,760
Speaker 1: There's like I mean, it's it's it's just it's it's

1715
01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:46,439
Speaker 1: it's it is a document that calls for genocide, and

1716
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:49,479
Speaker 1: the part where it's calling for genocide probably isn't like

1717
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:52,200
Speaker 1: line for Lyne the most disturbing part of it because

1718
01:44:52,200 --> 01:44:59,000
Speaker 1: the individual threats are like so graphic. And I was

1719
01:44:59,200 --> 01:45:03,280
Speaker 1: terrified when i've I was the person who you know,

1720
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:06,640
Speaker 1: initially dug up the sexual abuse allegations. And when I

1721
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:10,280
Speaker 1: did it, I knew it would kind of it would

1722
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 1: throw a match into her life. I thought that they

1723
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:14,720
Speaker 1: hadn't you know, they were there, they were visible, you

1724
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 1: could find them. But when it had happened, she had

1725
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:22,640
Speaker 1: not really been in the mainstream I and so I

1726
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 1: knew if this got uptake, it would make it bigger.

1727
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:30,599
Speaker 1: And what had it? And then you know, this woman

1728
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:35,840
Speaker 1: is posting this terrifying manifest It read like, yeah, she

1729
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:41,519
Speaker 1: shooting someone now. It was just so it was just terrified.

1730
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:44,679
Speaker 1: It was like something to be written, you know, immediately

1731
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:49,559
Speaker 1: before someone goes to shoot someone. It was not until

1732
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:53,559
Speaker 1: she's tweeting it and tagging the BBC in it. Yeah,

1733
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:56,880
Speaker 1: and like that that finally, like one of the most

1734
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:59,320
Speaker 1: disturbing things I've ever read in my life. Like that

1735
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 1: was fine. Lead the thing with the BBC was like, Uh,

1736
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:06,360
Speaker 1: maybe we should do something about this. It was just

1737
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:11,360
Speaker 1: so so little, right, this is they took her out

1738
01:46:11,360 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 1: of the article. Um, they added an update and says

1739
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:18,000
Speaker 1: we have updated this article published last week to remove

1740
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 1: a contribution from one individual in light of comments she

1741
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:22,880
Speaker 1: has published on a blog post in recent days which

1742
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 1: we have been able to verify. We acknowledge that an

1743
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,160
Speaker 1: admission of inappropriate behavior by the same contributor should have

1744
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:34,160
Speaker 1: been included in the original article. So this is you know,

1745
01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 1: they just kind of erased her, right, So they didn't

1746
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 1: acknowledge that they had included this person in the article

1747
01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:44,880
Speaker 1: who just published this genocidal ran. Right, So one of

1748
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 1: their sources is the person who is advocating for killing

1749
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:52,760
Speaker 1: trans people. That is important, right, That is pretty to

1750
01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:56,800
Speaker 1: this narrative they're pushing. And they also are not saying,

1751
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, they should have we acknowledged that an admission

1752
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: of inappropriate behavior should have been included in the original article.

1753
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 1: It really changes the overall narrative of the article. Right,

1754
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:14,680
Speaker 1: if you acknowledge this sis woman is a serial, right,

1755
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:18,599
Speaker 1: the overall picture is like six women are at risk

1756
01:47:18,640 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 1: from trans women and it's a reality check. Right to

1757
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:28,559
Speaker 1: hear no, in fact, this woman who were presenting as

1758
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:32,720
Speaker 1: like victimized is one of the women who's preying on people,

1759
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:39,600
Speaker 1: and she's not a trans woman. And it's just they just,

1760
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:43,439
Speaker 1: you know, even after this, responded in a way that

1761
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:46,519
Speaker 1: protected the narrative of the piece, right, they were they

1762
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:50,600
Speaker 1: weren't going to let in anything that acknowledge this. The

1763
01:47:50,680 --> 01:47:54,760
Speaker 1: people they're finding with this position are transphobic, this person

1764
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:58,920
Speaker 1: was very and that it just says they've removed the

1765
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:03,360
Speaker 1: contribution in light of comments she has published. What kind

1766
01:48:03,360 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: of what are they about? And it's serious, right, it's

1767
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:12,560
Speaker 1: serious and naughty knowledge that one of their sources is

1768
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:19,800
Speaker 1: a violent transfer. Yeah, this is how I found out

1769
01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:22,760
Speaker 1: that she was alive. Also them saying that they had

1770
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 1: been able to verify it before that, I had been like,

1771
01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:28,360
Speaker 1: she's not very online in a lot of cases. Um,

1772
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 1: so I was really what, I didn't know how long

1773
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 1: it was going to be before you know, there's confirmation

1774
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 1: that like in fact that like Kate had not just

1775
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:44,760
Speaker 1: shot someone and herself. This was it was just really

1776
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:54,760
Speaker 1: it's manifest. It was terrified. I don't know, it's just awful. Yeah,

1777
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:59,479
Speaker 1: And I think you know, one of the things that

1778
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: that's happening here is you get to see there's a

1779
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:06,920
Speaker 1: couple of like there's a couple there's like layers at

1780
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,280
Speaker 1: which this stuff operates. So you have, you know, you

1781
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: have your BBC running diligitimization, right, but then you have

1782
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:14,439
Speaker 1: the stuff beneath it, which is just appritly genocidal, and

1783
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 1: I think, you know, and sometimes like with the Lily Kid,

1784
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 1: like if you're going to be a turf really kid

1785
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:22,920
Speaker 1: kind of blew it right because like you can't like

1786
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:27,280
Speaker 1: okay like that. You can be really really transphobic in

1787
01:49:27,320 --> 01:49:29,600
Speaker 1: a lot of in a lot of ways, but like

1788
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 1: you know, actively calling people to get lynched is a

1789
01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:36,599
Speaker 1: thing that like even like transphobs are are normally like wait,

1790
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:42,240
Speaker 1: what why are you? Yeah? Yeah, but but I don't

1791
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:44,600
Speaker 1: think like that. The mainstream church movement is not in

1792
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:48,800
Speaker 1: a place where you can do stuff like that. But

1793
01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: in some ways, I think, you know, the stuff that's

1794
01:49:52,920 --> 01:49:55,840
Speaker 1: more moderate is more dangerous. The last thing I want

1795
01:49:55,880 --> 01:50:00,280
Speaker 1: to talk about is a document called the Decoration on

1796
01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:05,360
Speaker 1: Women's Sex Based Rights, which was put together by a

1797
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:11,679
Speaker 1: bunch of turf activists, fairly prominently featuring arch Australian turf,

1798
01:50:11,880 --> 01:50:15,400
Speaker 1: Sheila Jeffreys. But yeah, can you can you talk a

1799
01:50:15,479 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 1: bit about like what this is and yeah, so this

1800
01:50:19,320 --> 01:50:23,160
Speaker 1: is a document that basically all of the gender critical

1801
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:26,160
Speaker 1: organizations and which you people have signed. I mean, it

1802
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 1: is extreme, right. It calls for trans women to be

1803
01:50:29,439 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 1: banned from all women's spaces, including toilets, which you know,

1804
01:50:35,280 --> 01:50:37,880
Speaker 1: if if we can't go to the bathroom, they can't

1805
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 1: participate in society. Right, It's just like a basic need

1806
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:44,040
Speaker 1: people to have to exist in public um. And that

1807
01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 1: it bands all. It has to ban all internationally recommended

1808
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:53,320
Speaker 1: healthcare for trans children. UM. It has still legally protect

1809
01:50:53,479 --> 01:50:57,560
Speaker 1: deliberate miss gendering um, which would you know, allow you

1810
01:50:57,760 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 1: to be m just treat it with such hostility at work,

1811
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:07,680
Speaker 1: just in public. This is a just kind of a

1812
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:11,000
Speaker 1: threat assault on trans people's ability to exist with dignity

1813
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:16,640
Speaker 1: and society just live normal lives. And you know a

1814
01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:22,080
Speaker 1: lot of general critical people will say will portray themselves,

1815
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 1: you know as only opposing advances for trends rights, you know,

1816
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:31,000
Speaker 1: as not wanting trans rights to be rolled back. But

1817
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:34,000
Speaker 1: with this document calls for is like basically every right

1818
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:37,160
Speaker 1: trans people have to exist in their genders in particular

1819
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:40,640
Speaker 1: trans women and especially Turgis trans women. UM to just

1820
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 1: take it all back and leave them with basically nothing.

1821
01:51:44,560 --> 01:51:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, like that's like they have this whole thing

1822
01:51:46,800 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 1: about like basically like they want to erase the concept

1823
01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:55,599
Speaker 1: of gender right density from law, which is the thing

1824
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:59,800
Speaker 1: that does is it eliminates all trans people from like,

1825
01:51:59,880 --> 01:52:01,800
Speaker 1: it eliminates trans people as a thing that the law

1826
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:07,080
Speaker 1: recognizes exists and things should have protections. It's like it's

1827
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 1: it's it is, you know, like it is the legal

1828
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:13,640
Speaker 1: genocide of trans people like that that's that's that's what

1829
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:17,960
Speaker 1: it is. It's yeah, so they've basically all signed this,

1830
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, it is a yeah, it's this is not

1831
01:52:22,680 --> 01:52:29,360
Speaker 1: at all. Uh. French document positions itself as like you know,

1832
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 1: the demands kind of of this movement and it's extreme. UM.

1833
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:43,160
Speaker 1: The organization's spokeswoman is Karadinsky UM, who uses almost all

1834
01:52:43,360 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: of her public appearances. She has a number of times

1835
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:49,160
Speaker 1: been on Tucker Carl said, Um. She boost Jennifer Billick

1836
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:54,400
Speaker 1: all the time. I think it's her biggest supporter. UM

1837
01:52:54,920 --> 01:52:59,519
Speaker 1: and was formerly the chair of Wolf, which is Lear

1838
01:52:59,680 --> 01:53:04,719
Speaker 1: Keith organization. So she is Liberation Front is what stands

1839
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:07,439
Speaker 1: for it is a cool name for an organ that sucks,

1840
01:53:07,640 --> 01:53:11,639
Speaker 1: and they should get it back to the one better. Yeah,

1841
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:17,080
Speaker 1: so this is I mean generally you see the American

1842
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:24,960
Speaker 1: Turfs kind of in this more radical direction. Um awesome,

1843
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:30,679
Speaker 1: especially explicitly collaborating with the right. Um. And here they've

1844
01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:35,000
Speaker 1: made this document that just reports to and everyone has

1845
01:53:35,040 --> 01:53:40,760
Speaker 1: signs that kind of direct the overall agenda to one

1846
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 1: to just leaves trance people with just no protections at all. Yeah,

1847
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:49,599
Speaker 1: And I think I think it's you know, the reason

1848
01:53:49,640 --> 01:53:50,800
Speaker 1: I think this is in a lot of ways, like

1849
01:53:50,840 --> 01:53:52,960
Speaker 1: warch Adrea is similarly cave thing is. Again, it's in

1850
01:53:53,080 --> 01:53:57,800
Speaker 1: this like it's not actually in legally because none of

1851
01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:02,439
Speaker 1: these people are lawyers. And yes, oh so boy said,

1852
01:54:02,800 --> 01:54:04,960
Speaker 1: how how did an actual law I mean, okay, I

1853
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't be asking how did an actual lawyer produce this

1854
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 1: because I've met lawyers and there they're not. They are

1855
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:13,920
Speaker 1: not as smart and above board as they protein itself

1856
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:17,519
Speaker 1: to people. Yeah, Like, this stuff isn't making legal arguments,

1857
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: like one of one of the things that they they've like,

1858
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:21,280
Speaker 1: I guess the whole sort of gender critical like turf

1859
01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:24,920
Speaker 1: movements invented is like this this concept of sex based rights,

1860
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:30,439
Speaker 1: which is not a thing. Like yeah, like like like

1861
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:32,920
Speaker 1: they all think that there's like rights that you have

1862
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:36,560
Speaker 1: because of your sex, and no, this doesn't exist. They

1863
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 1: completely made this up. They keep on like referring to

1864
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 1: it as if it's like a concept that exists in

1865
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:44,640
Speaker 1: the law, Like none of this stuff like in terms

1866
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:48,160
Speaker 1: of legals. It's like it's nothing. It's it's it's, it's, it's,

1867
01:54:48,200 --> 01:54:51,000
Speaker 1: it's it's a jumble of words. Yeah, I know. You

1868
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:54,880
Speaker 1: really see as the movements go, they really have really

1869
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:58,200
Speaker 1: robust movement discipline and kind of taking up these terms

1870
01:54:58,240 --> 01:55:00,000
Speaker 1: and then saying them all the time. Is that it's

1871
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,080
Speaker 1: a thing everyone's familiar with. One of them is I

1872
01:55:02,200 --> 01:55:04,680
Speaker 1: was like women's sex based rights, women's sex based rights,

1873
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 1: Like what people's rights aren't based on their sex. It's

1874
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:14,240
Speaker 1: kind of like a whole thing we're doing with fetism.

1875
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:17,080
Speaker 1: You know. It was like, you don't have special rights

1876
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:20,080
Speaker 1: based on being a man, And it turns out that

1877
01:55:20,200 --> 01:55:24,640
Speaker 1: like supposedly a law we've thought that you have special

1878
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 1: rights for if you're a woman, to exclude whoever you

1879
01:55:29,720 --> 01:55:36,000
Speaker 1: want to exclude. I guess it's yeah, it's just goofy. Yeah,

1880
01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:38,120
Speaker 1: but but I think, like it's weird, but it's like

1881
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:41,120
Speaker 1: it's also it has this function, which is that the

1882
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 1: sort of like and like okay, so like I don't

1883
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:46,080
Speaker 1: My guess is that most of the people who have

1884
01:55:46,200 --> 01:55:49,560
Speaker 1: signed this document have not read it because you know,

1885
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:52,840
Speaker 1: but but you know, like I think the thing that

1886
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:56,000
Speaker 1: it does is it gives them this this legitimization. It

1887
01:55:56,440 --> 01:55:59,400
Speaker 1: gives their goal of exterminating trans people this sort of

1888
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:03,080
Speaker 1: legal jargon apparatus. They can hide behind it like, oh,

1889
01:56:03,240 --> 01:56:07,040
Speaker 1: it's actually from the U N and we're basing it

1890
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:11,760
Speaker 1: on international law and that. And the organization used to

1891
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:15,840
Speaker 1: have this fancy name, which was the Woman Human Rights

1892
01:56:15,880 --> 01:56:20,280
Speaker 1: Campaign UM and they have now dropped that, possibly for

1893
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:24,120
Speaker 1: legal reasons. But it sounds good, right, and the websites

1894
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 1: polished and it seems like feel thing, and the know

1895
01:56:32,560 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 1: they really try to take this phrase to and using

1896
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 1: it just kind of sneak everything. And so they'll ask

1897
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 1: people questions like well, what about women's sex space rights?

1898
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:44,400
Speaker 1: These are the thing I've never heard about before in

1899
01:56:44,480 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 1: my life, and but people just get on board and

1900
01:56:48,320 --> 01:56:52,680
Speaker 1: I don't really know what's happening. And they've another thing

1901
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:57,120
Speaker 1: they do is they always portray like bathrooms as sex

1902
01:56:57,200 --> 01:57:00,800
Speaker 1: segregated spaces, and I feel like every bathroom I've ever

1903
01:57:00,880 --> 01:57:03,080
Speaker 1: been and since women on the door and it seemed

1904
01:57:03,160 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 1: like female bathroom. But like this is like sentence is

1905
01:57:08,200 --> 01:57:13,480
Speaker 1: based on sex, not gender. Just making these assertions and

1906
01:57:14,000 --> 01:57:17,720
Speaker 1: they have a lot of assertions. Yeah, yeah, I think

1907
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 1: I think that's a good place to wrap up. I

1908
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 1: guess they have a lot of assertions. Yeah, yeah, I

1909
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:35,880
Speaker 1: guess we've just underwriting again what a serious kind of

1910
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 1: attack on trans people's rights. This is right, and this

1911
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:41,560
Speaker 1: is calling for things that would make it very hard

1912
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:46,880
Speaker 1: for trans people to exist. And it's really scary to

1913
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:49,080
Speaker 1: watch this. I think I can watch it kind of

1914
01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:54,040
Speaker 1: progress across this movement and be boosted. It's awful. Yeah,

1915
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:57,440
Speaker 1: And next episode we are going to take a much

1916
01:57:57,520 --> 01:58:00,640
Speaker 1: deeper dive into some of the people who signed this

1917
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:04,800
Speaker 1: documents and we are going to see what happens when

1918
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:10,880
Speaker 1: this kind of bloodless but genocidal, legalistic rhetoric makes it

1919
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:13,440
Speaker 1: into the hands of people who are not afraid to

1920
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:21,200
Speaker 1: do physical violence. And it is worse. It is going

1921
01:58:21,280 --> 01:58:26,160
Speaker 1: to go worse than you're probably imagining. Just to underline

1922
01:58:27,160 --> 01:58:30,760
Speaker 1: said earlier that Jennifer Billicks stuff is you know, just

1923
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:36,000
Speaker 1: widely now accepted within this movement, and her stuff is

1924
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:40,760
Speaker 1: portraying trans people and trans rights as existential immediate threat. Right.

1925
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:46,360
Speaker 1: She portrays she often says that doctors are like butchering children, right,

1926
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 1: if they're making children into slaves. It's stuff that, if

1927
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 1: it was true, would call for kind of an extreme

1928
01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:56,720
Speaker 1: level of resistance. And that's kind of what this stuff

1929
01:58:56,760 --> 01:59:00,360
Speaker 1: functions to do, right, If you are accusing people these

1930
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:05,080
Speaker 1: really extreme offenses and of hurting and threatening all of

1931
01:59:05,160 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 1: these people, what that motivates is extreme responses and volime responses.

1932
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:15,880
Speaker 1: And Billy herself is sometimes engaged in violent rhetoric. But

1933
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 1: I think many of us who have been following this

1934
01:59:20,720 --> 01:59:24,440
Speaker 1: movement are just kind of waiting, afraid because that's just

1935
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 1: where it looks like it's going in the US and

1936
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:30,480
Speaker 1: the UK too, kind of like hard to it's just

1937
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:34,880
Speaker 1: so scary, and like you know, they're mapping out where

1938
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:39,520
Speaker 1: the gender clinics are, and it's it's scary because where

1939
01:59:39,640 --> 01:59:42,400
Speaker 1: rhetoric like this goes is to a violent place, and

1940
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:46,840
Speaker 1: it's hard to see it letting up right now. Yeah,

1941
01:59:47,240 --> 01:59:50,720
Speaker 1: and yeah, that is that is the subject of tomorrow's episode,

1942
01:59:50,760 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 1: which Yeah, in which a bunch of people will start

1943
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:55,680
Speaker 1: attacking gender clinics and a bunch of trans people are

1944
01:59:55,760 --> 01:59:59,880
Speaker 1: going to get violently assaulted by turfs who are direct

1945
02:00:00,040 --> 02:00:04,760
Speaker 1: be affiliated with Sheila Jeffreys and our followers of Jennifer Billick.

1946
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:11,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, Christoph, thank you, thank you for coming on

1947
02:00:11,080 --> 02:00:15,560
Speaker 1: and doing this. Yeah, yeah, this has been It could

1948
02:00:15,560 --> 02:00:18,920
Speaker 1: happen here. Uh, you can find us at happened here

1949
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:21,960
Speaker 1: pot on Twitter and Instagram. We are also there is

1950
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:26,000
Speaker 1: other stuff that we do at the Cool Zone and yeah,

1951
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:28,400
Speaker 1: go go fight for the rights of trans people before

1952
02:00:28,440 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 1: they ceased to exist. Welcome to it could Happen Here,

1953
02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 1: a podcast that this week is about the war on

1954
02:00:47,560 --> 02:00:52,520
Speaker 1: trans people. I'm your host, Christopher Wong. If you've been

1955
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:55,120
Speaker 1: around the left long enough, you've probably heard people called

1956
02:00:55,160 --> 02:00:59,879
Speaker 1: transclusionary radical feminism or turf is um a colonial ideallo

1957
02:01:00,040 --> 02:01:04,080
Speaker 1: g Broadly, the accusation of colonialism is about the erasure

1958
02:01:04,160 --> 02:01:07,520
Speaker 1: of non Western genders to fall outside the Christian gender binary,

1959
02:01:08,440 --> 02:01:11,879
Speaker 1: but turfs or colonial in another sense as well, exported

1960
02:01:11,920 --> 02:01:14,560
Speaker 1: by white academics to a network of fall feminist and

1961
02:01:14,600 --> 02:01:18,080
Speaker 1: anti trafficking groups. The ideology has imposed itself on the

1962
02:01:18,120 --> 02:01:22,000
Speaker 1: global South, with devastating and violent consequences. As a product

1963
02:01:22,040 --> 02:01:25,040
Speaker 1: of this colonial imposition, Mexico has become one of the

1964
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:28,000
Speaker 1: front lines in the war against trans people. I spoke

1965
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:31,240
Speaker 1: to Emmy Flores and Juliana Newhauser, two members of the

1966
02:01:31,320 --> 02:01:35,280
Speaker 1: Sexual and Gender Dissidence Resistance Network, a group of activists

1967
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:37,960
Speaker 1: aligned with the Zapatistas who have been documenting and resisting

1968
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:41,440
Speaker 1: the spread of turfs in Mexico. When the new turf

1969
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:47,680
Speaker 1: waves started in Mexico several years back. UM at the

1970
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:51,320
Speaker 1: time I thought, I thought of it as something that

1971
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:54,720
Speaker 1: like a radicalization that went too far, you know, like

1972
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of like thinking back to like the New Left,

1973
02:01:57,680 --> 02:02:00,960
Speaker 1: and there was a point during the New Left when

1974
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:08,000
Speaker 1: like suddenly everybody joined a Baoist cult and they were

1975
02:02:08,920 --> 02:02:13,360
Speaker 1: angry for the right reasons, but it just went off.

1976
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:17,680
Speaker 1: At some point, I thought that's what was going on

1977
02:02:18,080 --> 02:02:21,800
Speaker 1: in Mexico. But then slowly it started to come out

1978
02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:26,040
Speaker 1: more that more and more turf groups were had to

1979
02:02:26,120 --> 02:02:31,280
Speaker 1: tie us to political parties, and one of them and

1980
02:02:31,360 --> 02:02:34,640
Speaker 1: foreign agents. And one of the one of the most

1981
02:02:34,760 --> 02:02:40,400
Speaker 1: dramatic cases UM is from Toluca City near Mexico City,

1982
02:02:40,760 --> 02:02:47,080
Speaker 1: UM just recently at the International Women's Date protests, like

1983
02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 1: there were turf groups that had made a pinata out

1984
02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:55,000
Speaker 1: of the trans flag, had been burning the trans flag.

1985
02:02:55,680 --> 02:02:58,600
Speaker 1: Also in this same city. One of the main turf

1986
02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:02,839
Speaker 1: groups turns out that their leader is on government payroll.

1987
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:08,400
Speaker 1: And if you've seen Roma, for example, the incident, the

1988
02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:11,240
Speaker 1: political incident that happens in that movie based on a

1989
02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:15,240
Speaker 1: real incident from the seventies, and the tactics of that

1990
02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:18,320
Speaker 1: political party, which is the party that controls the state

1991
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:22,360
Speaker 1: government of the state to Lucas In basically it hasn't changed,

1992
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:26,920
Speaker 1: and they seem to have been using these turfs basically

1993
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:31,080
Speaker 1: as shock troops. At one point, there were two sit

1994
02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:34,680
Speaker 1: ins outside the state Congress, one to push for a

1995
02:03:34,760 --> 02:03:36,960
Speaker 1: gender identity a law and another to push for the

1996
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:42,760
Speaker 1: legalization of abortion, which are obviously both important things. The ladder, however,

1997
02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:47,760
Speaker 1: was controlled by these turf groups who later mysteriously never

1998
02:03:48,040 --> 02:03:52,080
Speaker 1: seems to appear at other protests asking for the legalization

1999
02:03:52,120 --> 02:03:55,160
Speaker 1: of abortion, but they were there and they ran off

2000
02:03:55,360 --> 02:03:59,840
Speaker 1: the trans encampment. One of them big incidents was the

2001
02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:02,920
Speaker 1: sending the sanctity if the woman's bathroom with barbed wire

2002
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:07,720
Speaker 1: wrapped baseball bats Jesus. These groups have deep ties to

2003
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:10,880
Speaker 1: right wing Mexican political parties, the police, and the growing

2004
02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:13,360
Speaker 1: Turf International, and they seem to be very chummy with

2005
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:21,920
Speaker 1: the local police. Their leader UM gives classes, gaves like

2006
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:28,600
Speaker 1: trainings to the state government like that. It's not at

2007
02:04:28,680 --> 02:04:31,320
Speaker 1: all you know, you can see live strings of the

2008
02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:35,360
Speaker 1: quote unquote protests, and he was mostly them like drinking

2009
02:04:35,720 --> 02:04:38,920
Speaker 1: coffee with the cops, like they were on first n

2010
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:42,480
Speaker 1: invasis with the cops, while the the other camp had

2011
02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:46,120
Speaker 1: like translument were too scared to go to the bathroom

2012
02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:50,480
Speaker 1: because they were going to be attacked. And so that's

2013
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:54,920
Speaker 1: the starkest group, I think, right the do locators, which

2014
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:58,600
Speaker 1: are It's funny because almost every party has their own

2015
02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:03,080
Speaker 1: the row group. But yeah, also surprised that p R

2016
02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:06,800
Speaker 1: is the scariest. Yeah. We should also say that these

2017
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:12,600
Speaker 1: groups are affiliates with Sheila Jeffreys Women's Declation International UM.

2018
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:16,320
Speaker 1: And so this is also a case of an ideology

2019
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:21,040
Speaker 1: developed in the first world, in this case England, which

2020
02:05:21,160 --> 02:05:25,640
Speaker 1: is largely a safe country where even as fascist and

2021
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:29,360
Speaker 1: ideology as turfism doesn't or only very rarely leads to

2022
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:35,360
Speaker 1: real violence, and but it gets exported the countries that

2023
02:05:35,440 --> 02:05:37,880
Speaker 1: are not safe where it does turn into real violence.

2024
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:43,960
Speaker 1: So another affiliate um of Sheila Jeffreys Humans Declaration in

2025
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:48,760
Speaker 1: Mexico would be Lesprus Delmar, who is another case of

2026
02:05:49,800 --> 02:05:54,360
Speaker 1: At first they seemed to be a group that was

2027
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:58,879
Speaker 1: just they just radicalized a bit too far. Then photos

2028
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:01,000
Speaker 1: came out of their leader, who is on the time

2029
02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:04,640
Speaker 1: one hundred a couple of years back with Felippe calther

2030
02:06:04,840 --> 02:06:07,960
Speaker 1: On and next president of Mexico, and like by far

2031
02:06:08,120 --> 02:06:11,480
Speaker 1: one of the worst in the country's history, and not

2032
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:15,480
Speaker 1: like a like just oh I saw you walking in

2033
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:18,560
Speaker 1: the street. She was at a book signing. It was

2034
02:06:18,640 --> 02:06:21,760
Speaker 1: not a casual encounter. It was a clear sign of

2035
02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:26,040
Speaker 1: admiration in the It's been more than confirmed since then

2036
02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:31,680
Speaker 1: that her political ambitions lie with the p AN, the

2037
02:06:32,760 --> 02:06:39,280
Speaker 1: the farthest right mainstream political party in Mexico. This political

2038
02:06:39,320 --> 02:06:42,000
Speaker 1: alliance between the Churfs and the right has benefits for

2039
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:45,960
Speaker 1: both sides. The Churfs gained funding institutional backing for their

2040
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,840
Speaker 1: war against trans people. The right gained a way to

2041
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:52,600
Speaker 1: attack the vaguely center left Mexican President Andrea's Manuel Lopez

2042
02:06:52,680 --> 02:06:56,560
Speaker 1: over door by blaming him and trans people from Mexico's

2043
02:06:56,600 --> 02:06:59,920
Speaker 1: horrific wave of femicides were distracting from its actual source

2044
02:07:00,120 --> 02:07:04,400
Speaker 1: is NAFTA and the War on drugs. Mexico's trans population, however,

2045
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:07,560
Speaker 1: gained a new Western educated threat. When I say the

2046
02:07:08,240 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: radical feminism was a complete import it's from its very beginning.

2047
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:15,640
Speaker 1: In the for a long while, there was like one

2048
02:07:15,720 --> 02:07:20,480
Speaker 1: turf in Mexico, and she was She's called gian Maria Yoyo.

2049
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:23,720
Speaker 1: Don't even try to pronounce her name. I don't think

2050
02:07:23,760 --> 02:07:25,840
Speaker 1: she can even pronounce her name because she's white as hell,

2051
02:07:26,320 --> 02:07:29,880
Speaker 1: and she always dresses like she's a fucking Rachel dollars

2052
02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:35,120
Speaker 1: hell from Mexico. Like she's irony that the first originary

2053
02:07:36,640 --> 02:07:40,400
Speaker 1: in Mexico is also the Mexican Raciel doll as well, right,

2054
02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:43,040
Speaker 1: because she went abroad and was like the only Mexican

2055
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:45,760
Speaker 1: everyone knew. So even though she's white as hell and

2056
02:07:45,800 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 1: has blue eyes, she started wearing some cotchella motherfucking as

2057
02:07:50,680 --> 02:07:54,360
Speaker 1: uh feathers and ship right. Yeah, I've seen I've seen

2058
02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:59,480
Speaker 1: these pictures. It's it is, it is like it is.

2059
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:02,240
Speaker 1: It is the Mexican version of and not even just

2060
02:08:02,320 --> 02:08:05,040
Speaker 1: the It is the Mexican version of those people like

2061
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:08,320
Speaker 1: Coachella who like wear indigenous head dresses, who are just

2062
02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:11,480
Speaker 1: like just like look look like they're descended from like

2063
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:17,960
Speaker 1: hydroc Hembler or something. And like she's she has like

2064
02:08:18,600 --> 02:08:22,080
Speaker 1: she has like half French, half a Spanish name and

2065
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:24,960
Speaker 1: she changed it to a half maya half novel name.

2066
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:28,320
Speaker 1: It's gross. So this this person has been active since

2067
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:31,560
Speaker 1: the seventies. Right, she went to she was present in

2068
02:08:31,640 --> 02:08:35,600
Speaker 1: the first Pride in Mexico and uh she who that was?

2069
02:08:35,760 --> 02:08:40,960
Speaker 1: That was also the two year anniversary of the six massacre.

2070
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:45,839
Speaker 1: So Pride was from the start really leftist here in Mexico,

2071
02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:50,120
Speaker 1: but it also had these kind of people the who

2072
02:08:50,400 --> 02:08:54,240
Speaker 1: who went to the UK, friends and the United States.

2073
02:08:55,280 --> 02:09:01,800
Speaker 1: And I think she was there when Jennie Raymond was

2074
02:09:03,040 --> 02:09:08,000
Speaker 1: like sending her friends with guns to to uh threatened

2075
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:13,120
Speaker 1: trans women, right, So that's she. She she was there

2076
02:09:13,240 --> 02:09:18,680
Speaker 1: when the turf Wars were at the highest point during

2077
02:09:18,720 --> 02:09:24,760
Speaker 1: the seventies and then came back and parton she plasticipating

2078
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:28,480
Speaker 1: a lot of history of Mexican feminism. But the time

2079
02:09:28,560 --> 02:09:32,240
Speaker 1: that she came back in two thousand sixteen with that

2080
02:09:32,440 --> 02:09:36,880
Speaker 1: letter with that backing because she is also close to

2081
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:40,440
Speaker 1: Jennie Raymond with the Coalition again against Trafficking in Women

2082
02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 1: who the Coalition Against Trafficking, the Coalition against Trafficking in

2083
02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:54,320
Speaker 1: Women cat W has a lot of After the Third Wars,

2084
02:09:54,640 --> 02:09:59,080
Speaker 1: they went underground in the in academia and the universities

2085
02:09:59,160 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 1: right because they were no are accepted, but they were

2086
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:07,280
Speaker 1: in the process of building NGOs that could globally affect

2087
02:10:07,360 --> 02:10:12,480
Speaker 1: policy on UH, specifically sex working trans rights. And you

2088
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:15,880
Speaker 1: can tell that Jean media I saw that that was

2089
02:10:16,040 --> 02:10:19,680
Speaker 1: her only opportunity to resurface UH and to make her

2090
02:10:20,000 --> 02:10:23,920
Speaker 1: seventies as UH. She saw that seventies rat M discourse

2091
02:10:24,120 --> 02:10:27,840
Speaker 1: was retro now and so she became like this UH

2092
02:10:28,280 --> 02:10:33,640
Speaker 1: found founding matrix for the new generation of transpos. One

2093
02:10:33,720 --> 02:10:36,640
Speaker 1: of them which is Lauda Lequana who is part of

2094
02:10:37,200 --> 02:10:42,640
Speaker 1: FEMBA and the Gean Madia and Lekuana were not faced

2095
02:10:42,680 --> 02:10:47,400
Speaker 1: at all by the accusitions of alligned with the reactionaries

2096
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:50,200
Speaker 1: because they know their history, they know where they come from,

2097
02:10:50,280 --> 02:10:53,200
Speaker 1: and they know that this is how Dorkin survived, this

2098
02:10:53,440 --> 02:10:59,600
Speaker 1: is how UH, how Sheila Jefferies and Jennie Raymond survived.

2099
02:10:59,640 --> 02:11:03,360
Speaker 1: This is where you get the fucking money in lateral

2100
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:08,360
Speaker 1: Liquna gehan Maria and turned the whole environment around them

2101
02:11:08,560 --> 02:11:13,960
Speaker 1: into these uh well these surf questions. The only two

2102
02:11:14,040 --> 02:11:19,040
Speaker 1: issues that we talked about nowadays in Mexican feminism are

2103
02:11:20,120 --> 02:11:25,360
Speaker 1: our president and trans people. It's kind of gross Jesus.

2104
02:11:26,680 --> 02:11:31,240
Speaker 1: And that's like, remember, like there's only a handful of

2105
02:11:31,320 --> 02:11:35,560
Speaker 1: states that have legalized abortion. There's femicides happening all the time,

2106
02:11:36,280 --> 02:11:42,800
Speaker 1: and but we're we continue to debate these two issues

2107
02:11:43,080 --> 02:11:45,400
Speaker 1: over and over and over again like a feedback group,

2108
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:49,000
Speaker 1: and like, as trans people, we don't have any choice

2109
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:52,840
Speaker 1: because we're the targets of this right. And it's not

2110
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:57,440
Speaker 1: it's not an academic debate. Last fall, um there was

2111
02:11:58,720 --> 02:12:03,640
Speaker 1: some turfs who had taken over a public park to

2112
02:12:03,880 --> 02:12:07,520
Speaker 1: set up their separatist space, and there was a disabled

2113
02:12:07,760 --> 02:12:12,720
Speaker 1: assist woman and her chance girlfriend who are denied entry

2114
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:17,840
Speaker 1: at the park and threatened with tasers. And so when

2115
02:12:17,880 --> 02:12:23,680
Speaker 1: they're taking over these public spaces and using violence to

2116
02:12:23,720 --> 02:12:25,919
Speaker 1: defend them, because the next week there is a protest

2117
02:12:26,480 --> 02:12:31,120
Speaker 1: over this and they there they they taste to transpan

2118
02:12:32,480 --> 02:12:35,280
Speaker 1: and it's like this is like a public park like,

2119
02:12:35,800 --> 02:12:39,560
Speaker 1: of course we have to defend ourselves. The Coalition against

2120
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:44,800
Speaker 1: Trafficking and Women or cat W, an international antisex worker

2121
02:12:44,920 --> 02:12:48,080
Speaker 1: group which provided a refuge for white turfs driven from

2122
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:51,200
Speaker 1: mainstream feminism in their home countries, has been a major

2123
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:54,480
Speaker 1: source of Turfy influence in Latin America. There is there

2124
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:59,040
Speaker 1: is so much important of this ideology towards radical feminists

2125
02:12:59,040 --> 02:13:02,360
Speaker 1: in Mexico. UH. It's that they needed something to say

2126
02:13:02,400 --> 02:13:06,120
Speaker 1: and something to do and and something to feel the

2127
02:13:06,200 --> 02:13:11,840
Speaker 1: void UH in organizing and inn geos and the people

2128
02:13:11,880 --> 02:13:16,840
Speaker 1: who stepped up where Jannie Raymond's car w right, the

2129
02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:20,920
Speaker 1: Coalition against Trafficking in Women who Sings and nan indies.

2130
02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:27,560
Speaker 1: UH spent UH a decade and a half building contexts

2131
02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:32,000
Speaker 1: in the in the U, N, in the oas in

2132
02:13:32,200 --> 02:13:37,000
Speaker 1: several international organisms to extend their influence across the whole

2133
02:13:37,040 --> 02:13:41,080
Speaker 1: continent and specifically in Latin America. And UH you can

2134
02:13:41,160 --> 02:13:45,120
Speaker 1: see the effecting stuff like stuff like Venezuela where they

2135
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:51,640
Speaker 1: broke up sex worker unions too two with the the

2136
02:13:51,800 --> 02:13:55,360
Speaker 1: O S right and in Mexico, the founding leader of

2137
02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:59,880
Speaker 1: the Mexican branch of of cab W, Teresa used to

2138
02:14:00,120 --> 02:14:06,040
Speaker 1: a un employee, specifically, it's drug and crime segment. And

2139
02:14:06,440 --> 02:14:09,320
Speaker 1: before she was like a radical feminist. She used to

2140
02:14:09,520 --> 02:14:15,920
Speaker 1: conduct drug rades in Chapa's and yeah, and after that

2141
02:14:16,280 --> 02:14:19,960
Speaker 1: she became UH the founding member of cad W Latin

2142
02:14:20,000 --> 02:14:25,480
Speaker 1: America and the Caribbean. And with Janice Raymond, they you

2143
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:30,160
Speaker 1: can see them go together to the Beijing Conference on

2144
02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:34,880
Speaker 1: Women and they influenced like those they they were a

2145
02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:37,320
Speaker 1: big part of why gender is not recognized as a

2146
02:14:37,400 --> 02:14:40,360
Speaker 1: social construct by the u N. They allied with the

2147
02:14:40,480 --> 02:14:44,040
Speaker 1: Holy See, with the representative from the Vatican in the

2148
02:14:44,160 --> 02:14:47,640
Speaker 1: u N, got together with a couple of radical feminists

2149
02:14:47,800 --> 02:14:50,440
Speaker 1: and pushed back against gender being recognized as a social

2150
02:14:50,480 --> 02:14:56,400
Speaker 1: construct in N. So that's the level of influence these

2151
02:14:56,440 --> 02:15:01,280
Speaker 1: groups have in Mexico. UH, these groups wh morphed into

2152
02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:06,720
Speaker 1: the cop W, UH supported the war and drugs from

2153
02:15:06,760 --> 02:15:12,080
Speaker 1: the get go. They were very high in some of

2154
02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:15,520
Speaker 1: the biggest events in now curating the war and drugs.

2155
02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:19,800
Speaker 1: They were present right there because if you're fighting drug trafficking,

2156
02:15:21,120 --> 02:15:24,400
Speaker 1: it's very easy to just sleep the word human right there. Right,

2157
02:15:24,800 --> 02:15:27,840
Speaker 1: No politicians gonna say no. They all fucking love to

2158
02:15:27,920 --> 02:15:32,120
Speaker 1: say yeah, I'm hard on on human trafficking, and the

2159
02:15:32,200 --> 02:15:37,200
Speaker 1: way that UH showed itself was just targeting trans sex

2160
02:15:37,280 --> 02:15:41,560
Speaker 1: workers and migrant sex workers. And with that and that

2161
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:45,880
Speaker 1: feeding the agenda of Jenny's raymon perfectly. Sheila Jefferies gotta

2162
02:15:46,280 --> 02:15:50,960
Speaker 1: basically survived the whole two thousand's on writing garbage for

2163
02:15:51,160 --> 02:15:55,040
Speaker 1: reports for the u N. Most of her published works

2164
02:15:55,240 --> 02:15:59,879
Speaker 1: during the two thousands and early twenty tents. It's stuffed

2165
02:16:00,000 --> 02:16:08,400
Speaker 1: aid for cattle. You and they they they In two

2166
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:11,600
Speaker 1: thousands sixteen, they started pushing for more and more anti

2167
02:16:11,680 --> 02:16:15,120
Speaker 1: trans legislation worldwide because they could see the writing on

2168
02:16:15,160 --> 02:16:20,960
Speaker 1: the world right. They were behind the Women's Declaration. The

2169
02:16:21,960 --> 02:16:25,400
Speaker 1: La Jeffers is not okay. She is part of catally

2170
02:16:25,480 --> 02:16:28,640
Speaker 1: she just I think cad W Australia. She has her

2171
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:31,840
Speaker 1: own all other politics called Space International, which is behind

2172
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:35,200
Speaker 1: Foster Sista by the way in the US, where she

2173
02:16:35,440 --> 02:16:39,720
Speaker 1: allied with a couple of conservative sheriffs to write that legislation.

2174
02:16:40,840 --> 02:16:44,320
Speaker 1: So we could go on and on on. How like

2175
02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:49,840
Speaker 1: people that read that our transitions think are gone and

2176
02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:53,360
Speaker 1: forgotten by history. Right, the authors of these horrible books

2177
02:16:53,400 --> 02:16:56,960
Speaker 1: that haunts us to this day are still active, and

2178
02:16:57,080 --> 02:16:59,520
Speaker 1: not just in the US, they're active in Mexico, in

2179
02:16:59,640 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 1: the UK, in France, in South Africa, in Korea. Korea

2180
02:17:05,920 --> 02:17:09,560
Speaker 1: is huge in I think I would say Korea is

2181
02:17:09,760 --> 02:17:12,320
Speaker 1: as has as big a problem as Mexico and the UK.

2182
02:17:13,280 --> 02:17:15,800
Speaker 1: We just don't talk to them as much and we

2183
02:17:15,879 --> 02:17:19,440
Speaker 1: can't realize that. But if you check them the languages

2184
02:17:19,640 --> 02:17:23,800
Speaker 1: that have signed the Shila Jeffreys Declaration against Trands People,

2185
02:17:23,920 --> 02:17:27,400
Speaker 1: which is a specifically general sidal, the Coloration Decloration, it

2186
02:17:27,520 --> 02:17:30,560
Speaker 1: doesn't stop at like legislation. It wants to exterminate us

2187
02:17:30,840 --> 02:17:34,520
Speaker 1: out right. Yeah, and most of them, you were going

2188
02:17:34,560 --> 02:17:36,480
Speaker 1: to see a lot of Brazilian flags, a lot of

2189
02:17:36,560 --> 02:17:40,320
Speaker 1: Mexican flags, a lot of Korean flags, even more than

2190
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:44,880
Speaker 1: the United States flags. And if you track the USA flags,

2191
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:48,840
Speaker 1: it's mostly like weird randalls that have yoga classes and

2192
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:51,760
Speaker 1: ship it's not relevant politicians. But if you track the

2193
02:17:51,800 --> 02:17:54,840
Speaker 1: other countries, you're gonna find some of the biggest collectives

2194
02:17:54,879 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 1: in the in their own countries. You're gonna find or

2195
02:17:58,080 --> 02:18:00,440
Speaker 1: just spooks, right, You're gonna find a lot people who

2196
02:18:00,520 --> 02:18:03,560
Speaker 1: have really weird careers that spend a lot of time

2197
02:18:03,560 --> 02:18:10,560
Speaker 1: in Italy and Uganda. It's it's it's a never ending

2198
02:18:11,080 --> 02:18:16,080
Speaker 1: uh rabbit hole of of of spooks, of conservatives, of

2199
02:18:17,200 --> 02:18:21,080
Speaker 1: have been feminists that have regranted as NGOs to get

2200
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:25,480
Speaker 1: money from those groups and directed towards breaking up trans rights,

2201
02:18:25,640 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 1: towards affecting sex workers, towards breaking unions, breaking student movements.

2202
02:18:31,640 --> 02:18:37,840
Speaker 1: It's a global movement that is birthed by conservative thought,

2203
02:18:38,000 --> 02:18:40,640
Speaker 1: but getting more and more reactionary and more and more

2204
02:18:40,720 --> 02:18:45,000
Speaker 1: organized as time goes by. That international transphobic movement has

2205
02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:48,200
Speaker 1: increasingly found purchased in the US. I spoke to Lee

2206
02:18:48,360 --> 02:18:51,920
Speaker 1: Liaville and Kai Shiver's, two members of Health Liberation Now

2207
02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:55,600
Speaker 1: with intimate experience with the turf movement who spent years

2208
02:18:55,640 --> 02:19:01,280
Speaker 1: particularly documenting its rise. So my first shouldn't is can

2209
02:19:01,360 --> 02:19:05,920
Speaker 1: you'll explain what Wolf actually is? And I guess subsequent

2210
02:19:06,040 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 1: to that, what the relationship to hands across the aisle is? Um? Yeah,

2211
02:19:11,959 --> 02:19:19,640
Speaker 1: so Wolf is. Um. They're transphobic feminist groups, UM with

2212
02:19:19,959 --> 02:19:24,520
Speaker 1: at this point extensive ties to right wing organizations. Um.

2213
02:19:24,680 --> 02:19:28,800
Speaker 1: They've worked with Family Policy Alliance here, did Foundation Alliance

2214
02:19:28,840 --> 02:19:34,240
Speaker 1: Defending Freedom Concerned, went for America Family Research Cultural among others. Um.

2215
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:40,760
Speaker 1: But they um, they got their start um and they

2216
02:19:40,800 --> 02:19:46,440
Speaker 1: started back in two thousand thirteen around when they were

2217
02:19:46,480 --> 02:19:48,480
Speaker 1: founded by the Are Keith, who also was one of

2218
02:19:48,520 --> 02:19:52,720
Speaker 1: the leaders of Deep Cream Resistance, and she basically got like, um,

2219
02:19:52,959 --> 02:19:56,800
Speaker 1: kind of run out of anarchists and environmentalist groups and

2220
02:19:56,840 --> 02:20:01,000
Speaker 1: then kind of like went over to uh established like

2221
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:03,960
Speaker 1: turf communities to try and recruit there. So I sort

2222
02:20:03,959 --> 02:20:07,200
Speaker 1: of like started out trying to like recruit from these

2223
02:20:07,320 --> 02:20:12,720
Speaker 1: like older turf and transphobic lesbian communities. And then after

2224
02:20:12,879 --> 02:20:17,760
Speaker 1: Trump got elected and um, you know, the conservative Christians

2225
02:20:17,800 --> 02:20:20,400
Speaker 1: on the far right became more mobilized and more empowered.

2226
02:20:20,720 --> 02:20:23,160
Speaker 1: They kind of like rebranded themselves and we're like, oh,

2227
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:25,879
Speaker 1: let's form alliances with these right wing groups, and they

2228
02:20:25,959 --> 02:20:30,760
Speaker 1: kind of like traded. They're sort of like like crunchy

2229
02:20:31,320 --> 02:20:35,800
Speaker 1: lesbian feminists like like image for like Kara Danski, who

2230
02:20:36,040 --> 02:20:40,960
Speaker 1: like you know, is a straight, fairly feminine looking woman

2231
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:43,600
Speaker 1: who used to work for the CLU and and like

2232
02:20:43,680 --> 02:20:46,520
Speaker 1: a Democrat and like you know, she's way more presentable

2233
02:20:46,600 --> 02:20:50,120
Speaker 1: to like a conservative audience. You know. By working with

2234
02:20:50,240 --> 02:20:53,280
Speaker 1: the right then they have access to like money and

2235
02:20:53,600 --> 02:20:55,960
Speaker 1: power and they can get easier from the get on

2236
02:20:56,040 --> 02:20:59,320
Speaker 1: the media. Like like Kara Dyansky is no longer with Wolf,

2237
02:20:59,400 --> 02:21:01,280
Speaker 1: but like she was with them for years and still

2238
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:03,440
Speaker 1: has relations, like like good relations with them, And you've

2239
02:21:03,480 --> 02:21:07,400
Speaker 1: been on the Tucker Carlson Show like many times. So

2240
02:21:07,720 --> 02:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I think one of the important pieces when it comes

2241
02:21:12,080 --> 02:21:18,039
Speaker 1: to understanding like how this relationship with the right started.

2242
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:24,039
Speaker 1: So in in late two thousand and sixteen, Wolf put forward,

2243
02:21:24,120 --> 02:21:27,680
Speaker 1: they're filing against the US Department of Justice and US

2244
02:21:27,720 --> 02:21:30,640
Speaker 1: Department of Education, right, and they were going up against

2245
02:21:30,760 --> 02:21:35,080
Speaker 1: aspects of like trying to reform Title nine to include

2246
02:21:35,280 --> 02:21:39,960
Speaker 1: gender identity, you know, to to protect folks um who

2247
02:21:40,040 --> 02:21:43,680
Speaker 1: need to be able to use the like women's restroom,

2248
02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:46,120
Speaker 1: our locker room or whatever. Right. And this is the

2249
02:21:46,160 --> 02:21:48,400
Speaker 1: case that they ended up getting some of the A

2250
02:21:48,480 --> 02:21:50,680
Speaker 1: d F funding for. So it's like one of the

2251
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:55,760
Speaker 1: first official seeds I guess of the direct collaboration ended

2252
02:21:55,840 --> 02:21:58,800
Speaker 1: up happening. Those a lot of that stuff did up

2253
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:01,240
Speaker 1: eventually end up getting late and then they started doing

2254
02:22:01,360 --> 02:22:05,760
Speaker 1: some more official collaborations just a few months later, um

2255
02:22:05,800 --> 02:22:08,680
Speaker 1: when they were working with like Family Policy Alliance, UM

2256
02:22:08,879 --> 02:22:13,640
Speaker 1: BILE amicust briefs against Gavin Grimm again out of bathroom case. Yeah,

2257
02:22:13,720 --> 02:22:15,160
Speaker 1: they took something like I think it was like fifteen

2258
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:18,080
Speaker 1: thousand dollars from the Alliance depending Freedom, which is one

2259
02:22:18,080 --> 02:22:21,320
Speaker 1: of the main like right wing groups like like trying

2260
02:22:21,360 --> 02:22:23,520
Speaker 1: to pass all these like anti trans bills like going

2261
02:22:23,560 --> 02:22:27,000
Speaker 1: after a pediatric transition and trans girls and in women's sports.

2262
02:22:27,680 --> 02:22:29,640
Speaker 1: So they took that money and then yeah, then later

2263
02:22:29,760 --> 02:22:32,520
Speaker 1: like I think, like, um, the whole working with Family

2264
02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:34,640
Speaker 1: Policy Alliance, I believe was the first time they like

2265
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:37,879
Speaker 1: publicly allied with with the right ring group. I think,

2266
02:22:37,959 --> 02:22:40,920
Speaker 1: so that yeah, in January of two thousand seventeen. Yeah,

2267
02:22:40,959 --> 02:22:44,080
Speaker 1: and then they've just sort of like, yeah, like they

2268
02:22:44,080 --> 02:22:47,360
Speaker 1: also were involved with the amicust brief against was it

2269
02:22:47,520 --> 02:22:52,840
Speaker 1: Amy stefens Um another Supreme Court case I can't remember. Yeah,

2270
02:22:53,000 --> 02:22:55,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't surprise me. And like members of both have

2271
02:22:55,600 --> 02:22:59,360
Speaker 1: appeared on like Heritage Foundation panels. They helped like released

2272
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:02,760
Speaker 1: apparent Resource Guide and anti transparent resource Guide that was

2273
02:23:02,760 --> 02:23:07,560
Speaker 1: also sponsored by like Heritage Foundation, Family Policy Alliance. This

2274
02:23:07,720 --> 02:23:10,680
Speaker 1: this this is very similar to almost exactly what you

2275
02:23:10,720 --> 02:23:13,840
Speaker 1: see in Mexico, with just sort of slightly less physical violence,

2276
02:23:14,400 --> 02:23:16,560
Speaker 1: which yeah, it's it's a lot of you know, and

2277
02:23:16,720 --> 02:23:18,640
Speaker 1: the other the other thing is that these are to

2278
02:23:18,720 --> 02:23:21,200
Speaker 1: a large extent exactly the same organizations. And that was

2279
02:23:21,240 --> 02:23:22,520
Speaker 1: one of the other things you want to talk about

2280
02:23:22,600 --> 02:23:25,959
Speaker 1: was the influence of Sheila Jeffreys and the Women's Declaration,

2281
02:23:26,040 --> 02:23:32,760
Speaker 1: which has been all over this whole movement. Yeah, the

2282
02:23:32,840 --> 02:23:34,440
Speaker 1: one thing to point out, so, like you know, the

2283
02:23:35,040 --> 02:23:38,360
Speaker 1: Women's Declaration International is in this in the US is

2284
02:23:38,440 --> 02:23:42,000
Speaker 1: led by Karatanski, who you know, she like basically like left.

2285
02:23:42,040 --> 02:23:43,520
Speaker 1: She worked at World for a long time and still

2286
02:23:43,560 --> 02:23:46,080
Speaker 1: has lots of connections with Thumb, is on good terms

2287
02:23:46,120 --> 02:23:48,520
Speaker 1: with them, but she like left and now is like

2288
02:23:48,680 --> 02:23:53,040
Speaker 1: working with Women Dexploration International of US France. So and

2289
02:23:53,400 --> 02:23:56,280
Speaker 1: as she winds up having kind of like a foot

2290
02:23:56,320 --> 02:23:58,840
Speaker 1: in both worlds at the same time too. So like

2291
02:23:59,040 --> 02:24:06,680
Speaker 1: she'll like the US chapter Women's Declaration International previously like

2292
02:24:07,400 --> 02:24:10,640
Speaker 1: Women's Human Rights Campaign before they had to rebrand. Um

2293
02:24:11,160 --> 02:24:19,480
Speaker 1: they was. But if you if you read this comic, yeah, yeah,

2294
02:24:20,040 --> 02:24:26,040
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Um So, what what ends up happening is

2295
02:24:26,360 --> 02:24:32,720
Speaker 1: that Kara Danski will either like have the chapter sponsor

2296
02:24:33,120 --> 02:24:38,640
Speaker 1: particular events or she herself will become actively involved in

2297
02:24:38,760 --> 02:24:41,640
Speaker 1: the formation of the events, right, which we saw happen

2298
02:24:41,879 --> 02:24:46,120
Speaker 1: with UM Women Pickett d C last year where they

2299
02:24:46,160 --> 02:24:50,320
Speaker 1: were parking themselves outside of that was like it was

2300
02:24:50,440 --> 02:24:55,360
Speaker 1: a well, that was that was a whole fix. Oh god,

2301
02:24:56,120 --> 02:24:59,000
Speaker 1: it was a purchase that happened on International Women's Day

2302
02:24:59,040 --> 02:25:03,520
Speaker 1: to protest the the Equality Act. Yeah, it's it's not

2303
02:25:03,720 --> 02:25:07,480
Speaker 1: like it's people's first time dealing with the Equality Act either.

2304
02:25:07,720 --> 02:25:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, like so prior prior to that point, which

2305
02:25:13,360 --> 02:25:18,520
Speaker 1: and this starts to go into them like hands across

2306
02:25:18,560 --> 02:25:22,960
Speaker 1: the Aisle Coalition because they were actively involved in opposing

2307
02:25:23,160 --> 02:25:28,520
Speaker 1: the Equality Act as well, so to to kind of

2308
02:25:28,640 --> 02:25:31,560
Speaker 1: roll back a little bit, um, the hands across the

2309
02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:35,879
Speaker 1: Aisle Coalition. This was something that started developing in early

2310
02:25:36,080 --> 02:25:39,640
Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, you know, not that long after Wolf

2311
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:44,880
Speaker 1: started building the more direct relationships with the Right, and

2312
02:25:45,040 --> 02:25:48,640
Speaker 1: so that the people of this coalition would have like

2313
02:25:48,800 --> 02:25:51,360
Speaker 1: you would have members of the Right itself. And in

2314
02:25:51,480 --> 02:25:55,440
Speaker 1: the process of that UM towards the beginning of two

2315
02:25:55,480 --> 02:26:00,920
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, in May, they filed this joint letter to

2316
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:06,920
Speaker 1: the House of Representative Speaker Nancy Pelosi to oppose things

2317
02:26:07,120 --> 02:26:11,800
Speaker 1: like the Equality Act UM. And they did so alongside

2318
02:26:11,920 --> 02:26:17,520
Speaker 1: with Natasha Chart representing Wolf, Concerned Women for America, American

2319
02:26:17,560 --> 02:26:20,840
Speaker 1: College of Pediatricians, Family Research Council, you know, a whole

2320
02:26:20,879 --> 02:26:23,760
Speaker 1: bunch of really just awful names, and they're, oh, yeah,

2321
02:26:23,760 --> 02:26:27,000
Speaker 1: the idea involved, Yes, it's it's it's it's really the

2322
02:26:27,120 --> 02:26:29,560
Speaker 1: Rose Gallery of all of the people who were anti

2323
02:26:29,600 --> 02:26:33,320
Speaker 1: gay marriage until we still are but have downplayed it.

2324
02:26:33,520 --> 02:26:34,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, all the people who let the anti game

2325
02:26:34,879 --> 02:26:37,920
Speaker 1: marriage campaigns, all of the sort of weird right wing

2326
02:26:39,400 --> 02:26:43,840
Speaker 1: pseudo medical bodies. The next thing I wanted to ask

2327
02:26:43,920 --> 02:26:46,520
Speaker 1: about is what's been happening in the last couple of

2328
02:26:46,680 --> 02:26:49,440
Speaker 1: years with the fusion, Because so you already have your

2329
02:26:49,520 --> 02:26:54,040
Speaker 1: your alliance between the turfs and the evangelicals, but in

2330
02:26:54,080 --> 02:26:58,280
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, we've seen a I don't

2331
02:26:58,280 --> 02:27:00,480
Speaker 1: know if if full scale is the right term to

2332
02:27:00,680 --> 02:27:02,760
Speaker 1: use for it, but we've seen a merger of this

2333
02:27:03,640 --> 02:27:06,200
Speaker 1: with Save the Children and Q and on stuff. It's

2334
02:27:06,640 --> 02:27:10,039
Speaker 1: you can talk about that. That's okay. So that's an

2335
02:27:10,120 --> 02:27:13,920
Speaker 1: interesting one because like I've I've been digging into the

2336
02:27:14,040 --> 02:27:20,199
Speaker 1: timeline of this stuff extensively. It's like I've got hundreds

2337
02:27:20,600 --> 02:27:24,520
Speaker 1: hundreds of listings trying to figure out where different cases

2338
02:27:24,560 --> 02:27:29,200
Speaker 1: are coming from and trying to understand like the phases. Right,

2339
02:27:29,400 --> 02:27:33,600
Speaker 1: So you've got like the formation, the solidification, and then

2340
02:27:33,640 --> 02:27:36,600
Speaker 1: the escalation, and we're kind of in the escalation stage

2341
02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:40,760
Speaker 1: right now. But so one of the things that I

2342
02:27:41,240 --> 02:27:47,640
Speaker 1: started to notice is that elements of this crossover, like

2343
02:27:47,760 --> 02:27:53,280
Speaker 1: the cross pollination that was happening, actually predated certain key

2344
02:27:53,360 --> 02:27:57,360
Speaker 1: events that we now now are affiliated with Q and On. Right,

2345
02:27:57,840 --> 02:28:03,599
Speaker 1: So if we think about out the actual like development

2346
02:28:03,920 --> 02:28:06,520
Speaker 1: of Q and ON itself, so you've got the pizza

2347
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:10,119
Speaker 1: Gate thing that was happening in like October two thousand

2348
02:28:10,120 --> 02:28:14,480
Speaker 1: and sixteen. I believe that was, um, you know, right

2349
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:18,840
Speaker 1: before Trump was getting elected, and you know, kicking up

2350
02:28:18,920 --> 02:28:22,680
Speaker 1: some stuff about like you know, Hillary Clinton's emails and

2351
02:28:22,760 --> 02:28:26,400
Speaker 1: stuff like that to go up against her election campaign

2352
02:28:26,440 --> 02:28:29,520
Speaker 1: in opposition to Trump, and then you know, folding in

2353
02:28:29,640 --> 02:28:33,680
Speaker 1: the harassment towards UM comment Ping Pong to the point

2354
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:37,400
Speaker 1: where like Edgar Madison Wealth shows up at Comment Ping

2355
02:28:37,480 --> 02:28:40,400
Speaker 1: Pong in December of two thousand and sixteen with an

2356
02:28:40,480 --> 02:28:42,960
Speaker 1: a R fifteen style rifle and starts, you know, firing

2357
02:28:43,040 --> 02:28:49,720
Speaker 1: off his shots and stuff like that. Right, And so eventually, um,

2358
02:28:50,120 --> 02:28:53,160
Speaker 1: most people know that the timeline of the Q and

2359
02:28:53,280 --> 02:28:56,480
Speaker 1: On drops happening around like October two thousand seventeen. Like

2360
02:28:56,560 --> 02:28:59,360
Speaker 1: if you look up the original like the first known

2361
02:28:59,640 --> 02:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Q robs, I believe that was like October two tho

2362
02:29:04,200 --> 02:29:09,039
Speaker 1: seventeen on four Chan. But the thing is that if

2363
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:15,160
Speaker 1: you look at references to save the Children or save

2364
02:29:15,280 --> 02:29:18,720
Speaker 1: our Children on like Twitter, the hashtags, and you're also

2365
02:29:18,840 --> 02:29:22,560
Speaker 1: looking for trans phobia related stuff, you can actually start

2366
02:29:22,640 --> 02:29:28,119
Speaker 1: to see that crossover happening before the original que drops happened. Right, Yeah,

2367
02:29:28,240 --> 02:29:32,920
Speaker 1: I found I found tweets that were connecting trans inclusion

2368
02:29:33,200 --> 02:29:36,480
Speaker 1: education in schools to pedophilia and using the save the

2369
02:29:36,560 --> 02:29:40,280
Speaker 1: Children hashtag in August of two thousand seventeen. The que

2370
02:29:40,400 --> 02:29:44,040
Speaker 1: drops hadn't started yet, so and this is something this

2371
02:29:44,240 --> 02:29:49,520
Speaker 1: pattern continues to happen. Right There were also multiple um,

2372
02:29:50,680 --> 02:29:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, tweets or Facebook posts or whatever that would

2373
02:29:53,360 --> 02:29:56,920
Speaker 1: start to use things like save the Children, Save our Children,

2374
02:29:57,040 --> 02:30:00,760
Speaker 1: Wake Up America, and stuff like that before you would

2375
02:30:00,800 --> 02:30:04,600
Speaker 1: have the big scale takeover by Q and on when

2376
02:30:04,680 --> 02:30:08,160
Speaker 1: things were starting to get really popular, because the save

2377
02:30:08,280 --> 02:30:12,080
Speaker 1: the Children thing really went viral in the summer of

2378
02:30:14,720 --> 02:30:17,960
Speaker 1: but you could still see elements of it before that

2379
02:30:18,120 --> 02:30:25,080
Speaker 1: point repeatedly. So another early instance of using both save

2380
02:30:25,160 --> 02:30:29,200
Speaker 1: the Children and Wake Up America hashtags started happening on

2381
02:30:29,840 --> 02:30:33,720
Speaker 1: UM April. I believe that is a two thousand nineteen

2382
02:30:34,080 --> 02:30:38,240
Speaker 1: and bear in mind wake Up America UM is a

2383
02:30:38,400 --> 02:30:41,720
Speaker 1: hashtag that's not only used by Q and on proponents

2384
02:30:41,959 --> 02:30:46,880
Speaker 1: UM in relation to the whole like accelerationism trying to

2385
02:30:48,240 --> 02:30:52,760
Speaker 1: yep deep state stuff UM, but also like Aaron Brewer,

2386
02:30:53,200 --> 02:30:55,960
Speaker 1: one of the people that was involved in some of

2387
02:30:56,040 --> 02:30:59,720
Speaker 1: the clinic protests harassments, was using that. It wasn't just

2388
02:30:59,840 --> 02:31:02,119
Speaker 1: a was wasn't just Brewer, it was like both Brewer

2389
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:05,199
Speaker 1: it was. That was the clinic protest that involved both

2390
02:31:05,440 --> 02:31:09,080
Speaker 1: UM Partner's Celtical CARPEC, which Brewer was, remember like one

2391
02:31:09,120 --> 02:31:10,320
Speaker 1: of the founders of at the time and one of

2392
02:31:10,320 --> 02:31:14,160
Speaker 1: the leaders of and Joey Bright's like can't I get

2393
02:31:14,200 --> 02:31:16,720
Speaker 1: a witness? Like they teamed up to stage a bunch

2394
02:31:16,800 --> 02:31:20,200
Speaker 1: of clinic protests that they used wake up like wake

2395
02:31:20,240 --> 02:31:22,000
Speaker 1: of America was one of the slogans that they used

2396
02:31:22,040 --> 02:31:27,120
Speaker 1: in one of the hashtags are to so to to

2397
02:31:27,160 --> 02:31:30,279
Speaker 1: make sure we're getting this. Uh, these are protest against

2398
02:31:30,360 --> 02:31:33,280
Speaker 1: clinics that offer gender firming care. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah

2399
02:31:33,360 --> 02:31:39,320
Speaker 1: yeah that um yeah, that that happened. That one so yeah,

2400
02:31:39,360 --> 02:31:43,800
Speaker 1: the Wake Up America one was in um Felt Lake City,

2401
02:31:44,480 --> 02:31:47,920
Speaker 1: New York City and l A. Yeah, and they also,

2402
02:31:48,080 --> 02:31:52,320
Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of umstas, they also have used the

2403
02:31:52,480 --> 02:31:57,280
Speaker 1: slogan pulled back the Curtain UM, which has also been

2404
02:31:57,400 --> 02:32:02,280
Speaker 1: used by uh like anti choice activists, Like that was

2405
02:32:02,360 --> 02:32:05,000
Speaker 1: I remember, like like finding like they used pulled back

2406
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:06,480
Speaker 1: the curtain a lot to be like they what they

2407
02:32:06,520 --> 02:32:09,920
Speaker 1: mean is like they're expose the evil gender industry. But

2408
02:32:10,240 --> 02:32:14,520
Speaker 1: like the other this like UM anti abortion group, I'm

2409
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:16,840
Speaker 1: blinking on which one off the top of my head.

2410
02:32:16,920 --> 02:32:19,480
Speaker 1: But they also used that um pulled back the curtain

2411
02:32:19,640 --> 02:32:22,959
Speaker 1: to go after planned parent put yeah, which I think

2412
02:32:23,120 --> 02:32:27,360
Speaker 1: is like probably like that doesn't I'm for a direct connection,

2413
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:31,520
Speaker 1: but it seems like that's too much of a coincidence

2414
02:32:31,560 --> 02:32:33,880
Speaker 1: in one of the one of the things that I

2415
02:32:33,959 --> 02:32:36,560
Speaker 1: really want to stress about this called like what I

2416
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:41,640
Speaker 1: call tan on thing is that like the seeds for this,

2417
02:32:41,959 --> 02:32:45,160
Speaker 1: the cross pollination that we are seeing happening between the

2418
02:32:45,240 --> 02:32:48,600
Speaker 1: gender critical movement, pizza Gate, and Q and on, like

2419
02:32:49,080 --> 02:32:53,279
Speaker 1: these were already in place before Q and On formally

2420
02:32:53,440 --> 02:32:58,760
Speaker 1: developed as its own phenomenon. This keeps happening. It's you

2421
02:32:59,000 --> 02:33:04,280
Speaker 1: can't really like figure out where one particular type of

2422
02:33:04,360 --> 02:33:07,560
Speaker 1: rhetoric is necessarily coming from in terms of its source,

2423
02:33:07,879 --> 02:33:11,320
Speaker 1: because it just keeps going back and forth repeatedly. People

2424
02:33:11,360 --> 02:33:16,560
Speaker 1: are acting like they're coming up with a lot of

2425
02:33:16,600 --> 02:33:21,320
Speaker 1: the same ideas together because in the end, in the end,

2426
02:33:21,879 --> 02:33:25,359
Speaker 1: they are of the same roots. They are in fundamental

2427
02:33:25,440 --> 02:33:28,440
Speaker 1: agreement with each other. Whether they're calling themselves different names.

2428
02:33:29,600 --> 02:33:31,879
Speaker 1: I think that's that's worries to be in a lot

2429
02:33:31,959 --> 02:33:35,959
Speaker 1: of ways, partly because you know, I mean, this has

2430
02:33:36,040 --> 02:33:40,400
Speaker 1: always been something where if you look at the rhetoric

2431
02:33:40,720 --> 02:33:43,879
Speaker 1: that these people are spreading, it's like it's explicitly exterminationist,

2432
02:33:43,959 --> 02:33:48,320
Speaker 1: like it's it's you know, like they they're they're storychiatric terrorists,

2433
02:33:48,360 --> 02:33:50,320
Speaker 1: like in search of a like a quote unquote load wolf,

2434
02:33:50,600 --> 02:33:52,920
Speaker 1: and in a lot of you know, and in the seventies,

2435
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:56,480
Speaker 1: I think they were. There's there's a lot more explicit

2436
02:33:56,640 --> 02:33:59,200
Speaker 1: violence that these people are doing directly, and now they're

2437
02:33:59,280 --> 02:34:03,240
Speaker 1: kind of like they're they're they're trying to find people

2438
02:34:03,320 --> 02:34:05,240
Speaker 1: who will do their already work for them, and there

2439
02:34:05,280 --> 02:34:07,320
Speaker 1: are places where they found them already. We've seen this

2440
02:34:07,360 --> 02:34:10,320
Speaker 1: in Mexico and in the US. The people who they

2441
02:34:10,680 --> 02:34:14,440
Speaker 1: seem to be recruiting are people who are extremely dangerous.

2442
02:34:14,480 --> 02:34:17,080
Speaker 1: We've we've seen q and on people have killed enormous

2443
02:34:17,120 --> 02:34:20,520
Speaker 1: numbers of people. Um, you know, we've there's a long

2444
02:34:20,640 --> 02:34:23,840
Speaker 1: history of of abortion clinic bombings and people getting asassinated

2445
02:34:23,920 --> 02:34:25,360
Speaker 1: for that. I mean, I think, you know, one of

2446
02:34:25,440 --> 02:34:30,360
Speaker 1: the connections that I've been sort of like looking at

2447
02:34:30,560 --> 02:34:33,520
Speaker 1: is the extent to which this stuff is connected to

2448
02:34:33,560 --> 02:34:35,440
Speaker 1: the Atlantis shooting, because if you if you look at

2449
02:34:35,560 --> 02:34:38,440
Speaker 1: the stuff, the Atlanta shooter believes it's you know, like

2450
02:34:38,720 --> 02:34:41,279
Speaker 1: he's in this like in the same sort of Christian

2451
02:34:41,320 --> 02:34:46,199
Speaker 1: patriarchal project and his thing is specifically about sex workers.

2452
02:34:46,240 --> 02:34:50,240
Speaker 1: But hey, look if you look at yeah, a particularly

2453
02:34:50,280 --> 02:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Asian sex workers, and you know, if if if you

2454
02:34:52,240 --> 02:34:53,720
Speaker 1: if you look at the anti trafficking groups and you

2455
02:34:53,720 --> 02:34:55,480
Speaker 1: look at the Christian anti trafficking groups and you look

2456
02:34:55,480 --> 02:34:58,080
Speaker 1: at the ven diagram with them and the Turfs, it's like, oh,

2457
02:34:59,600 --> 02:35:06,720
Speaker 1: and I'm able are involved, Yeah that particular world, And yeah,

2458
02:35:06,879 --> 02:35:10,039
Speaker 1: there's there's this kind of vice closing it on trans people.

2459
02:35:10,080 --> 02:35:13,720
Speaker 1: Were on the one hand, you have these people attempting

2460
02:35:13,720 --> 02:35:16,680
Speaker 1: to employ the violence of the state, and on the

2461
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:20,200
Speaker 1: other hand, you have this sort of stoke giatric terrorism

2462
02:35:20,280 --> 02:35:24,519
Speaker 1: where they're attempting to incite violence by sort of individuals.

2463
02:35:24,600 --> 02:35:26,120
Speaker 1: And then also, I mean, I think I think there's

2464
02:35:26,360 --> 02:35:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's sort of there's sort of two forms

2465
02:35:27,800 --> 02:35:29,920
Speaker 1: of this, right. There's the explicit people who are explicitly

2466
02:35:30,040 --> 02:35:32,000
Speaker 1: like quote unquote political right. You have you have your

2467
02:35:32,000 --> 02:35:35,920
Speaker 1: sort of like ideological street fascist. You have like you know,

2468
02:35:36,080 --> 02:35:39,480
Speaker 1: you have your people with baseball bass covered and barred wire.

2469
02:35:39,959 --> 02:35:44,640
Speaker 1: But then you also have the stuff that's been fueling

2470
02:35:44,640 --> 02:35:48,240
Speaker 1: antiation violence where it's not necessarily like you know, there

2471
02:35:48,320 --> 02:35:50,879
Speaker 1: is a this is an organization that like hates Asian people.

2472
02:35:51,000 --> 02:35:54,160
Speaker 1: It's we will just sort of passively increase the rhetoric

2473
02:35:54,280 --> 02:35:57,560
Speaker 1: until the level of violence increases. Yeah, it kind of

2474
02:35:57,600 --> 02:35:59,400
Speaker 1: got like you've got the street bash and then you've

2475
02:35:59,440 --> 02:36:02,040
Speaker 1: got the intelle actual fash. Yeah. Well, and and I

2476
02:36:02,080 --> 02:36:04,160
Speaker 1: think but I think also there's there's another Like if

2477
02:36:04,200 --> 02:36:06,200
Speaker 1: it was just those people, I think it'd be less bad.

2478
02:36:06,280 --> 02:36:09,400
Speaker 1: But but there's also just the way in which just

2479
02:36:09,760 --> 02:36:14,119
Speaker 1: random people who are encountering this become very quickly radicalized

2480
02:36:14,160 --> 02:36:16,440
Speaker 1: and it becomes part of sort of I mean, and

2481
02:36:16,520 --> 02:36:18,080
Speaker 1: trets up with violence has always been part of the

2482
02:36:18,120 --> 02:36:20,280
Speaker 1: sort of background violence in the same way that anti

2483
02:36:20,360 --> 02:36:22,680
Speaker 1: black and so I mean, you know, okay, the level

2484
02:36:22,720 --> 02:36:25,720
Speaker 1: of anti black violence is much higher, but like the

2485
02:36:26,040 --> 02:36:28,600
Speaker 1: level of violence against black trans people in particular, and

2486
02:36:28,959 --> 02:36:30,880
Speaker 1: the level of anti Asian violence we've been seeing that

2487
02:36:31,080 --> 02:36:33,280
Speaker 1: has just sort of it's just a part of the

2488
02:36:33,320 --> 02:36:38,160
Speaker 1: background violence of American society, and that the levels of

2489
02:36:38,280 --> 02:36:42,000
Speaker 1: those things, the more of this rhetoric gets circulated and

2490
02:36:42,080 --> 02:36:46,039
Speaker 1: the more this activism happens, that background level of violence increases,

2491
02:36:46,080 --> 02:36:49,320
Speaker 1: and that to me is also terrifying because it means

2492
02:36:49,360 --> 02:36:51,880
Speaker 1: like it's not just sort of like fascist so you

2493
02:36:51,959 --> 02:36:55,400
Speaker 1: can track it's just someone on the street. Yeah, and yeah,

2494
02:36:55,400 --> 02:36:58,720
Speaker 1: they're just sort of like trying to like like associate

2495
02:36:59,080 --> 02:37:03,280
Speaker 1: like well, I mean a lot of the like yeah

2496
02:37:03,320 --> 02:37:08,080
Speaker 1: that like people like like Felik and erin um alex

2497
02:37:08,120 --> 02:37:10,240
Speaker 1: Their and the gender Member and doy Brand stuff like that,

2498
02:37:10,400 --> 02:37:13,600
Speaker 1: Like they're they're hardcore like elimination as like they're like

2499
02:37:13,680 --> 02:37:16,680
Speaker 1: they're over and over the comm compromise. And I would

2500
02:37:16,760 --> 02:37:20,279
Speaker 1: also especially like anti fascist networks to pay more attention

2501
02:37:20,360 --> 02:37:24,879
Speaker 1: to it, because you know that solidarity with trans people

2502
02:37:25,640 --> 02:37:30,000
Speaker 1: is just as important as solidarity with like racial and

2503
02:37:30,080 --> 02:37:33,840
Speaker 1: ethnic minorities when it comes to combating fact, right, especially

2504
02:37:33,920 --> 02:37:36,280
Speaker 1: since like there are a number of us that are

2505
02:37:36,440 --> 02:37:41,040
Speaker 1: in multiple categories, so like let's all work together and

2506
02:37:41,160 --> 02:37:45,680
Speaker 1: try to like you know, be proactive about combating the threat. Right.

2507
02:37:45,800 --> 02:37:52,040
Speaker 1: So my my tan on Um collections, I guess, like

2508
02:37:52,200 --> 02:37:55,560
Speaker 1: I only have two reports on it so far because

2509
02:37:56,200 --> 02:38:00,920
Speaker 1: getting into the full detail is just it is a

2510
02:38:01,160 --> 02:38:05,200
Speaker 1: lengthy project, and I keep getting distracted by by the

2511
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:11,280
Speaker 1: conversion therapy stuff. There's so much stuff to research, and

2512
02:38:11,320 --> 02:38:15,400
Speaker 1: there's more like two people and and yeah, anyway, so

2513
02:38:15,600 --> 02:38:22,600
Speaker 1: ever else in terms of finding that like the original

2514
02:38:22,959 --> 02:38:26,920
Speaker 1: kind of like broader views of tn ON both like

2515
02:38:27,280 --> 02:38:29,640
Speaker 1: what it is in terms of like the one oh

2516
02:38:29,720 --> 02:38:33,520
Speaker 1: one kind of stuff, and also like the timeline of

2517
02:38:33,560 --> 02:38:36,000
Speaker 1: where it came from. You can find it on Health

2518
02:38:36,120 --> 02:38:39,720
Speaker 1: Liberation Now dot com. We have a little tap there

2519
02:38:39,879 --> 02:38:42,400
Speaker 1: that has like analysis, and then if you go down

2520
02:38:42,440 --> 02:38:46,080
Speaker 1: to key issues, you can find a tn on tag there, right,

2521
02:38:46,120 --> 02:38:49,440
Speaker 1: and it'll have that stuff in there. This has been

2522
02:38:49,440 --> 02:38:53,000
Speaker 1: a thing that throughout this entire series, which is that

2523
02:38:53,600 --> 02:38:56,080
Speaker 1: most of the information on this stuff has been compiled

2524
02:38:56,120 --> 02:38:58,240
Speaker 1: by a very small number of trans people, and that

2525
02:38:58,640 --> 02:39:02,160
Speaker 1: cannot stay the state of this because there are just

2526
02:39:02,440 --> 02:39:07,280
Speaker 1: not enough trans people and they are extremely overworked. Yeah,

2527
02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:09,800
Speaker 1: and if that's a project that you can take up,

2528
02:39:09,879 --> 02:39:14,360
Speaker 1: please do that. Um, yes please, yes, hands on deck,

2529
02:39:14,440 --> 02:39:18,480
Speaker 1: I'll hands on back. Yeah, because the seriousness of this

2530
02:39:18,760 --> 02:39:20,800
Speaker 1: is such that if you want there to be trans

2531
02:39:20,920 --> 02:39:25,959
Speaker 1: people living in a way that does not actively destroy them,

2532
02:39:26,959 --> 02:39:31,039
Speaker 1: you have to act now. Yeah. Basically, yeah, this has

2533
02:39:31,080 --> 02:39:33,640
Speaker 1: been it could happen here a product of cool zone media.

2534
02:39:34,320 --> 02:39:52,120
Speaker 1: Suppress your local turfs before it's too late. Goodbye. You

2535
02:39:52,200 --> 02:39:56,640
Speaker 1: know what I love is decadent Western sexual mores. Well,

2536
02:39:56,720 --> 02:39:58,560
Speaker 1: that actually does tie you into what we're talking about,

2537
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:03,160
Speaker 1: end of what you were re did Jesus there? God?

2538
02:40:05,720 --> 02:40:08,200
Speaker 1: When I when I logged into this call an hour late,

2539
02:40:08,280 --> 02:40:13,120
Speaker 1: Garrison was studiously reading reading a book by with the

2540
02:40:13,240 --> 02:40:16,440
Speaker 1: screen centered on the cover. We gotta bleep this out

2541
02:40:16,520 --> 02:40:18,520
Speaker 1: and have have it be the new thing that's bleeped out.

2542
02:40:18,879 --> 02:40:24,160
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Actually, yes, good call. That way,

2543
02:40:24,200 --> 02:40:26,560
Speaker 1: we can just do a whole series of jokes where

2544
02:40:26,600 --> 02:40:33,440
Speaker 1: we just like pill people on fascist esotericism. What a

2545
02:40:33,680 --> 02:40:39,120
Speaker 1: what a fun joke that would be happen here? Show

2546
02:40:39,280 --> 02:40:43,640
Speaker 1: we talk about things that could happen of but just

2547
02:40:43,680 --> 02:40:47,880
Speaker 1: talking about the onslaught of bills that have been introduced

2548
02:40:47,920 --> 02:40:50,400
Speaker 1: the past few months that attacking kind of trends rights

2549
02:40:50,440 --> 02:40:54,680
Speaker 1: and queer people in general. Yeah, so we've we've we

2550
02:40:54,800 --> 02:40:58,200
Speaker 1: we've heard about gay marriage, We've heard about turfs a

2551
02:40:58,320 --> 02:41:01,840
Speaker 1: lot the past the past two episodes, and now we're

2552
02:41:02,120 --> 02:41:05,440
Speaker 1: going to be kind of focusing on the Yeah, like

2553
02:41:05,520 --> 02:41:08,640
Speaker 1: I said, the kind of current legislation that's happened specifically

2554
02:41:08,720 --> 02:41:11,880
Speaker 1: within the past six months, UM that I've been targeting

2555
02:41:12,240 --> 02:41:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of LGBTQ people in in schools particularly that and

2556
02:41:16,520 --> 02:41:21,120
Speaker 1: a lot of it's been targeted towards towards miners, teen teens, adolescents,

2557
02:41:21,720 --> 02:41:25,400
Speaker 1: UM and restricting the visibility and uh and kind of

2558
02:41:25,879 --> 02:41:28,680
Speaker 1: what's allowed to be said and mentioned in schools. So

2559
02:41:29,760 --> 02:41:32,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna kind of actually talk about um books first,

2560
02:41:32,760 --> 02:41:34,480
Speaker 1: because a lot of this stuff is kind of tied

2561
02:41:34,520 --> 02:41:40,840
Speaker 1: into the critical race theory UM kind of like organizing

2562
02:41:41,000 --> 02:41:47,440
Speaker 1: that the right was doing. So Yeah. The American Library

2563
02:41:47,440 --> 02:41:53,400
Speaker 1: Association says that between September and December alone, they received

2564
02:41:53,840 --> 02:41:57,760
Speaker 1: more than three thirty reports of book challenges, for which

2565
02:41:57,840 --> 02:42:00,040
Speaker 1: is the most over two decades in terms of of

2566
02:42:00,440 --> 02:42:02,880
Speaker 1: people trying to restrict what books are allowed to be

2567
02:42:02,959 --> 02:42:08,360
Speaker 1: in schools. I experienced a book challenge lately. Tell you what,

2568
02:42:09,000 --> 02:42:12,480
Speaker 1: trying to read through the new James Patterson book. What

2569
02:42:13,160 --> 02:42:15,240
Speaker 1: do either of you know who James Patterson is? No?

2570
02:42:16,160 --> 02:42:18,520
Speaker 1: Was this was? This was a bad idea on my back,

2571
02:42:18,640 --> 02:42:21,680
Speaker 1: Please continue, Garrison, I was. I was busy reading the

2572
02:42:22,600 --> 02:42:25,199
Speaker 1: before you logged on. I have a different interest in books,

2573
02:42:26,080 --> 02:42:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, actually very similar books, very similar, and the

2574
02:42:30,640 --> 02:42:34,440
Speaker 1: Pelican brief basically identical. I have no idea how much

2575
02:42:34,480 --> 02:42:36,760
Speaker 1: that's gonna get bleeped, but it's gonna be funny. Um

2576
02:42:37,640 --> 02:42:43,119
Speaker 1: so yeah. A Tennessee school's removal of Mars the Holocaust

2577
02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:46,680
Speaker 1: Graphic Biography became kind of the most famous example of

2578
02:42:46,720 --> 02:42:49,600
Speaker 1: this trend a few months ago. Um, the book was

2579
02:42:49,600 --> 02:42:52,920
Speaker 1: allegedly banned due to due to nudity and because of

2580
02:42:53,000 --> 02:42:56,400
Speaker 1: curse words. But this is kind of you know it was.

2581
02:42:56,720 --> 02:43:00,520
Speaker 1: They claimed it had nothing to do with actual political content. Um,

2582
02:43:00,640 --> 02:43:04,320
Speaker 1: it was just because of the the inappropriate images to children,

2583
02:43:04,840 --> 02:43:07,680
Speaker 1: which is a little a little dubious since it's all,

2584
02:43:07,760 --> 02:43:13,359
Speaker 1: you know, starring mice. Um yeah, yeah. But the majority

2585
02:43:13,400 --> 02:43:16,600
Speaker 1: of challenged books have been kind of those focused on

2586
02:43:16,879 --> 02:43:21,600
Speaker 1: lgbt Q characters or themes. Back in November, nearly two

2587
02:43:21,680 --> 02:43:24,680
Speaker 1: dozen people a day. We're dying from COVID nineteen in

2588
02:43:24,920 --> 02:43:28,080
Speaker 1: South Carolina. Thank god that god better. Thank god we

2589
02:43:28,240 --> 02:43:32,039
Speaker 1: knocked that ship out. But rather than try to handle

2590
02:43:32,120 --> 02:43:37,279
Speaker 1: the public health crisis, Governor Henry McMaster seemed more interested

2591
02:43:37,360 --> 02:43:40,280
Speaker 1: in pressuring the state's Department of Education to crack down

2592
02:43:40,360 --> 02:43:43,080
Speaker 1: on queer theme to books. He directed the Department of

2593
02:43:43,200 --> 02:43:46,199
Speaker 1: Education and the State Board of Education to create quote

2594
02:43:46,480 --> 02:43:50,440
Speaker 1: statewide standards and directives to prevent pornography and other obscene

2595
02:43:50,600 --> 02:43:54,760
Speaker 1: content from entering our state's public schools and libraries of

2596
02:43:54,879 --> 02:43:57,600
Speaker 1: the governor said in a letter to the Superintendent of Education.

2597
02:43:58,040 --> 02:44:01,640
Speaker 1: Inside the letter, it was specifically targeted towards uh Maya

2598
02:44:01,760 --> 02:44:05,960
Speaker 1: Kobe's book Gender Queer, a Memoir UM, which is a

2599
02:44:06,400 --> 02:44:09,320
Speaker 1: gender queer graphic novel kind of detailing what it's what

2600
02:44:09,480 --> 02:44:12,600
Speaker 1: it's like to be gender queer. It's definitely popular among

2601
02:44:12,760 --> 02:44:15,200
Speaker 1: kind of the adult like a young adult kind of

2602
02:44:15,280 --> 02:44:17,560
Speaker 1: age range and and as and as a good resource

2603
02:44:17,640 --> 02:44:20,640
Speaker 1: for kind of gender bending type stuff UM and it

2604
02:44:20,720 --> 02:44:23,640
Speaker 1: has faced a large amount of a large amount of

2605
02:44:23,720 --> 02:44:27,200
Speaker 1: the onslaught and like the bashing of queer books have

2606
02:44:27,320 --> 02:44:32,480
Speaker 1: been focused on this specific book. It's an autobiographical book

2607
02:44:33,240 --> 02:44:36,000
Speaker 1: based on the Bay Area non binary writer and the

2608
02:44:36,040 --> 02:44:40,360
Speaker 1: illustrator UM. It's been challenged and it started being challenged

2609
02:44:40,400 --> 02:44:43,000
Speaker 1: at one of South Carolina's nearly five hundred schools and

2610
02:44:43,080 --> 02:44:44,920
Speaker 1: then got banned from all of them just because people

2611
02:44:44,959 --> 02:44:47,680
Speaker 1: were mad at about it. At one school, it was

2612
02:44:47,720 --> 02:44:50,400
Speaker 1: being recommended for those in the tenth grade or higher

2613
02:44:50,480 --> 02:44:53,520
Speaker 1: to learn about kind of queer issues UM and it

2614
02:44:53,760 --> 02:44:56,720
Speaker 1: is now become one of the most banned books of

2615
02:44:57,080 --> 02:45:00,360
Speaker 1: this past year. It's been removed from schools and for Ginia,

2616
02:45:00,680 --> 02:45:05,240
Speaker 1: New Jersey, Florida, North and South Carolina, Texas, and a

2617
02:45:05,360 --> 02:45:09,160
Speaker 1: large amount of other states in the South. UM speaking.

2618
02:45:09,240 --> 02:45:12,320
Speaker 1: Speaking of Texas, the Agenda Queer Graphic novel was just

2619
02:45:12,640 --> 02:45:16,000
Speaker 1: one part of a massive kind of horrifying purge led

2620
02:45:16,080 --> 02:45:21,400
Speaker 1: by Texas Republican state Representative Matt cross Uh. He he

2621
02:45:21,760 --> 02:45:24,360
Speaker 1: led an effort to pressure and force schools and libraries

2622
02:45:24,600 --> 02:45:28,360
Speaker 1: to remove books based on a list of undesirable reads

2623
02:45:28,480 --> 02:45:32,120
Speaker 1: that he compiled himself. UM. The list is a sixteen

2624
02:45:32,200 --> 02:45:36,000
Speaker 1: page spreadsheet with over eight hundred and fifty books cataloged

2625
02:45:36,840 --> 02:45:40,760
Speaker 1: on Crouse's eight hundred and fifty strong list of titles

2626
02:45:40,959 --> 02:45:45,000
Speaker 1: that he wants spanned from Texas libraries, of them concerned

2627
02:45:45,120 --> 02:45:48,040
Speaker 1: lgbt Q issues. Um, it's kind of clear that what

2628
02:45:48,200 --> 02:45:51,720
Speaker 1: he did, Yeah, well what what what? What? What he

2629
02:45:51,760 --> 02:45:54,520
Speaker 1: did to make this list is just like googling the

2630
02:45:54,640 --> 02:45:58,240
Speaker 1: words like queer and lgbt Q and gay and trans

2631
02:45:58,720 --> 02:46:01,240
Speaker 1: like with book and found a list of books that

2632
02:46:01,400 --> 02:46:04,280
Speaker 1: have it like mentioned to somewhere. So like a lot

2633
02:46:04,320 --> 02:46:06,879
Speaker 1: of so many books are just like completely a banned

2634
02:46:06,879 --> 02:46:10,000
Speaker 1: that aren't even really like yeah, like the list is

2635
02:46:10,080 --> 02:46:12,600
Speaker 1: nearly one thousand books, like log So like he was

2636
02:46:12,680 --> 02:46:14,960
Speaker 1: just like google searching to like add as many books

2637
02:46:14,959 --> 02:46:17,040
Speaker 1: to lists as that he could. It's not actually about

2638
02:46:17,080 --> 02:46:20,600
Speaker 1: the content beyond the fact that the content acknowledge the

2639
02:46:20,640 --> 02:46:24,160
Speaker 1: existence of queer people. Like yeah, that's to the extent

2640
02:46:24,240 --> 02:46:26,680
Speaker 1: that he knows about the content. That's it, Like, you

2641
02:46:26,800 --> 02:46:29,400
Speaker 1: can't be reading all these books, no, because like one

2642
02:46:29,440 --> 02:46:31,160
Speaker 1: of the more interesting trends that you can find on

2643
02:46:31,240 --> 02:46:35,160
Speaker 1: this list is that it challenges and tries to ban

2644
02:46:35,360 --> 02:46:39,240
Speaker 1: books that teach students like their legal rights, um, like

2645
02:46:39,400 --> 02:46:42,440
Speaker 1: not even counting books about like reproductive rights or writes

2646
02:46:42,480 --> 02:46:44,960
Speaker 1: his like l g bt Q people. It also it

2647
02:46:45,040 --> 02:46:47,560
Speaker 1: includes in this list like titles like the Legal Atlas

2648
02:46:47,640 --> 02:46:54,440
Speaker 1: of the United States, UM Team Legal Rights, Uh, I right, yeah,

2649
02:46:54,840 --> 02:46:58,600
Speaker 1: equal Rights, we the Students, Supreme Court cases for and

2650
02:46:58,680 --> 02:47:02,760
Speaker 1: about students of Yeah. I mean this is my My

2651
02:47:02,920 --> 02:47:07,920
Speaker 1: support for LGBTQ people is worring here with my belief

2652
02:47:08,000 --> 02:47:11,119
Speaker 1: that children should not know their rights because they're they're

2653
02:47:11,200 --> 02:47:13,200
Speaker 1: they're they're they're getting too upty as it is, we

2654
02:47:13,280 --> 02:47:15,320
Speaker 1: gotta we gotta crack Look, could we crack down on

2655
02:47:15,440 --> 02:47:17,760
Speaker 1: kids in a way that isn't bigoted, That's all I'm

2656
02:47:17,800 --> 02:47:24,720
Speaker 1: asking for. Nope, nope, absolutely no, we gotta slow them down. No, no, kids,

2657
02:47:24,959 --> 02:47:27,200
Speaker 1: you must know your rights. And the very important thing

2658
02:47:27,280 --> 02:47:28,760
Speaker 1: here is that if you keep WE in your locker,

2659
02:47:28,800 --> 02:47:30,800
Speaker 1: the school can just search it. So don't put in

2660
02:47:30,920 --> 02:47:33,119
Speaker 1: your locker. If you put it in your car, they

2661
02:47:33,320 --> 02:47:36,640
Speaker 1: it's it's way harder for them to search its in

2662
02:47:36,720 --> 02:47:42,040
Speaker 1: the Principles car store guns. They're wait, okay, sorry, let's um. Yeah,

2663
02:47:42,040 --> 02:47:43,320
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you can find that in the

2664
02:47:43,400 --> 02:47:46,039
Speaker 1: Legal Acts Less of the United States. But to be fair,

2665
02:47:46,200 --> 02:47:48,880
Speaker 1: Texas kids can't read that book either, now, so who

2666
02:47:48,959 --> 02:47:53,080
Speaker 1: knows who knows what it sets. Yeah, so to Virginia,

2667
02:47:53,120 --> 02:47:56,080
Speaker 1: school board numbers kind of called for a sexual books

2668
02:47:56,120 --> 02:47:58,840
Speaker 1: quote unquote sexual books to be burned at a meeting

2669
02:47:58,920 --> 02:48:01,280
Speaker 1: last year. UM. And a lot of these, like a

2670
02:48:01,360 --> 02:48:03,720
Speaker 1: lot of the rhetoric around like book book burnings and

2671
02:48:03,800 --> 02:48:07,240
Speaker 1: book bannings was specifically tied to the kind of the

2672
02:48:07,360 --> 02:48:11,240
Speaker 1: effort to harass and gain support in school boards. And

2673
02:48:11,320 --> 02:48:13,000
Speaker 1: we saw us last year with like proud boys and

2674
02:48:13,080 --> 02:48:16,280
Speaker 1: extremists and it's like other like random people who got

2675
02:48:16,360 --> 02:48:20,200
Speaker 1: their brains kind of warped by propaganda kind of leading

2676
02:48:20,360 --> 02:48:23,720
Speaker 1: these like incendiary charges against against the school board members.

2677
02:48:23,920 --> 02:48:26,320
Speaker 1: Some you know, the school board members got fired, like

2678
02:48:26,560 --> 02:48:30,360
Speaker 1: threatened with arrest just for allowing books that mentioned the

2679
02:48:30,400 --> 02:48:33,520
Speaker 1: existence of being queer. It was, it was, it was

2680
02:48:33,640 --> 02:48:36,520
Speaker 1: quite quite a problem that is now influencing this current

2681
02:48:36,600 --> 02:48:40,600
Speaker 1: legislative cycle. UM. In almost every case quote unquote, like

2682
02:48:40,760 --> 02:48:44,760
Speaker 1: concerned parents have swarmed school board meetings and flooded kind

2683
02:48:44,760 --> 02:48:50,640
Speaker 1: of mailboxes with outrage over what they call pornography um

2684
02:48:50,840 --> 02:48:55,200
Speaker 1: being distributed to their children. You know, people will will

2685
02:48:55,360 --> 02:48:59,040
Speaker 1: plaster signs with you know, scenes from the gender queer

2686
02:48:59,200 --> 02:49:03,920
Speaker 1: graphic novel that is like what they they they deem

2687
02:49:03,959 --> 02:49:07,760
Speaker 1: as being like poor not like pornographic um when it

2688
02:49:07,840 --> 02:49:11,720
Speaker 1: just depicts like how how like adults and young adults

2689
02:49:11,760 --> 02:49:13,680
Speaker 1: behave accurately, just like you can find in any like

2690
02:49:13,840 --> 02:49:16,280
Speaker 1: fucking like Batman comic. Like it's not like it's it's

2691
02:49:16,320 --> 02:49:19,400
Speaker 1: like it's like not it's it's it's it's both in

2692
02:49:19,520 --> 02:49:22,080
Speaker 1: line with other comic books and also like it's obviously

2693
02:49:22,240 --> 02:49:26,160
Speaker 1: dealing with like issues around being queer as like that's

2694
02:49:26,160 --> 02:49:29,680
Speaker 1: the whole point of it. So but yeah, just blasting this,

2695
02:49:29,879 --> 02:49:34,160
Speaker 1: blasting like queerness as innately pornographic is you know, a big,

2696
02:49:34,280 --> 02:49:38,560
Speaker 1: a big part of this type of propaganda push. It's it's, uh,

2697
02:49:39,360 --> 02:49:41,440
Speaker 1: it's pretty upsetting because I mean a lot of these

2698
02:49:41,480 --> 02:49:44,840
Speaker 1: adults and like quote unquote parents, you know, who knows

2699
02:49:44,840 --> 02:49:47,520
Speaker 1: if they're actually parents. You know, it even goes and

2700
02:49:47,600 --> 02:49:50,520
Speaker 1: stuff to being like you know, they're accusing librarians and

2701
02:49:50,600 --> 02:49:53,320
Speaker 1: teachers of being pedophiles for having this, for the having

2702
02:49:53,360 --> 02:49:58,320
Speaker 1: these type of materials. In Wyoming, prosecutors considered charging library

2703
02:49:58,400 --> 02:50:03,119
Speaker 1: staff with stalking books of sexuality, um, including like literary

2704
02:50:03,160 --> 02:50:05,960
Speaker 1: classics under like the sex said banner like sex is

2705
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:08,720
Speaker 1: a funny word, and this book is gay, um, but

2706
02:50:09,200 --> 02:50:12,960
Speaker 1: I considered charging library staff, like with cribs, for for

2707
02:50:13,080 --> 02:50:16,120
Speaker 1: stalking these books, which are like very typical sex said books.

2708
02:50:16,560 --> 02:50:19,160
Speaker 1: It's it's incredible because when I was in a Texas

2709
02:50:19,240 --> 02:50:21,760
Speaker 1: public school, I read all of the Wheel of Time

2710
02:50:21,800 --> 02:50:24,320
Speaker 1: books from my school library, and those are horny in

2711
02:50:24,360 --> 02:50:27,160
Speaker 1: a much much more unhealthy way than any of the

2712
02:50:27,200 --> 02:50:30,840
Speaker 1: books that you're talking about could possibly be described as well.

2713
02:50:31,400 --> 02:50:33,280
Speaker 1: You get that, you get this fun thing where it's

2714
02:50:33,280 --> 02:50:35,760
Speaker 1: like they're basically running the clock back on the turf

2715
02:50:35,920 --> 02:50:37,440
Speaker 1: arc like if you if you remember we're talking about

2716
02:50:37,520 --> 02:50:40,800
Speaker 1: Church in Mexico. It was okay, so the ark that

2717
02:50:40,879 --> 02:50:42,920
Speaker 1: they did was they were anti porn people, but then

2718
02:50:42,959 --> 02:50:46,280
Speaker 1: they lost the anti porn wars, so they became anti

2719
02:50:46,320 --> 02:50:49,720
Speaker 1: trafficking people. And then when sort of turfasing came back,

2720
02:50:50,000 --> 02:50:52,720
Speaker 1: they went from anti trafficking back to being turfs. And

2721
02:50:52,800 --> 02:50:55,240
Speaker 1: it's like this, this is literally they're they're doing this

2722
02:50:55,280 --> 02:50:57,200
Speaker 1: whole thing in reverse right there. Their starting position is

2723
02:50:57,240 --> 02:50:59,240
Speaker 1: that their anti trands and they're just going back to

2724
02:50:59,400 --> 02:51:02,040
Speaker 1: like the anti porn stuff, but like bringing in and

2725
02:51:02,160 --> 02:51:04,160
Speaker 1: sort of like bringing in an anti trafficking angle. And

2726
02:51:04,240 --> 02:51:08,760
Speaker 1: it's it's great. It's extremely fun. Yeah, this is I

2727
02:51:08,760 --> 02:51:10,840
Speaker 1: would describe this is fun. This is what I consider

2728
02:51:10,879 --> 02:51:15,400
Speaker 1: a fun time. Yeah, well I know what you consider

2729
02:51:15,480 --> 02:51:21,560
Speaker 1: a fun time. Here. You do notice my my carefully place,

2730
02:51:21,879 --> 02:51:27,200
Speaker 1: carefully placed books on on my Yes, I'm extremely aware

2731
02:51:27,240 --> 02:51:31,200
Speaker 1: of that. Garrison Harrison is reading books that will get

2732
02:51:31,240 --> 02:51:35,000
Speaker 1: them canceled by like five specific people if we talk

2733
02:51:35,040 --> 02:51:37,800
Speaker 1: about them too much on this show. That is always

2734
02:51:37,840 --> 02:51:39,840
Speaker 1: the fear of that's always the fear of Twitter. It's

2735
02:51:39,840 --> 02:51:42,720
Speaker 1: being canceled by five people. My favorite thing about doing

2736
02:51:42,800 --> 02:51:45,720
Speaker 1: a podcast for an audience of millions, Garrison is telling

2737
02:51:45,760 --> 02:51:48,480
Speaker 1: a joke that is that is precisely for you and

2738
02:51:48,640 --> 02:51:55,039
Speaker 1: me and making that like several minutes of content. Sorry. Um,

2739
02:51:55,400 --> 02:51:58,160
Speaker 1: And Oklahoma bill was introduced to the state Senate that

2740
02:51:58,200 --> 02:52:02,760
Speaker 1: would prohibit school libraries from keeping books that focused on

2741
02:52:02,840 --> 02:52:06,039
Speaker 1: sexual activity, sexual identity, or a gender identity. Um, you're

2742
02:52:06,040 --> 02:52:08,560
Speaker 1: gonna gonna use the gender identity a lot. That kind

2743
02:52:08,560 --> 02:52:11,800
Speaker 1: of just refers to anything that even I mean, like

2744
02:52:11,920 --> 02:52:14,959
Speaker 1: it refers to even mentions of being cis gender, right,

2745
02:52:15,000 --> 02:52:16,960
Speaker 1: because if you bring up the concept of cis gender,

2746
02:52:17,440 --> 02:52:20,360
Speaker 1: that infers that there is an alternative to that. So

2747
02:52:20,800 --> 02:52:22,959
Speaker 1: so like even any if anything even mentions being sis,

2748
02:52:23,080 --> 02:52:24,720
Speaker 1: it means that there must be something other, so that

2749
02:52:24,800 --> 02:52:27,520
Speaker 1: already falls into the gender identity kind of framework. So

2750
02:52:27,680 --> 02:52:31,080
Speaker 1: it's just like anything that suggests that you are that you,

2751
02:52:31,280 --> 02:52:33,600
Speaker 1: that there's like gender identity is not something you are

2752
02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:37,720
Speaker 1: innately born with and are forever, is is gonna be,

2753
02:52:37,840 --> 02:52:41,880
Speaker 1: it's gonna be is banned and is seen as pornographic

2754
02:52:41,959 --> 02:52:45,520
Speaker 1: what I'm seeing or is like grooming children or whatever

2755
02:52:45,600 --> 02:52:48,520
Speaker 1: kind of words that they use. Um and like, all

2756
02:52:48,600 --> 02:52:52,480
Speaker 1: of this rhetoric is much worse for lgbtwo Q authors

2757
02:52:52,560 --> 02:52:55,840
Speaker 1: who are black or people of color. There's books like

2758
02:52:56,360 --> 02:53:00,360
Speaker 1: All Boys Aren't Blue by writer George M. Johnson, whose

2759
02:53:00,560 --> 02:53:03,640
Speaker 1: whose book led one white school board member to call

2760
02:53:03,680 --> 02:53:07,520
Speaker 1: the police on her own district's librarian for keeping it

2761
02:53:07,800 --> 02:53:12,520
Speaker 1: in stock. It's uh the the the Central York School

2762
02:53:12,560 --> 02:53:16,560
Speaker 1: District in Pennsylvania, and an extensive list of books last

2763
02:53:16,640 --> 02:53:19,280
Speaker 1: year that was almost entirely written by the authomes of color.

2764
02:53:20,240 --> 02:53:22,560
Speaker 1: This is all the stuff has been happening like concurrently

2765
02:53:22,640 --> 02:53:26,320
Speaker 1: with the anti critical race theory, like organizing in protests,

2766
02:53:26,360 --> 02:53:29,920
Speaker 1: which again obviously isn't about actual critical race theory, just

2767
02:53:30,080 --> 02:53:34,040
Speaker 1: about the suggestion that maybe racism is something that is

2768
02:53:34,160 --> 02:53:36,640
Speaker 1: not just an individual problem, but it's maybe kind of

2769
02:53:36,800 --> 02:53:40,760
Speaker 1: built into our entire culture and system of governance, UM

2770
02:53:40,800 --> 02:53:44,119
Speaker 1: and education. So it's it's not actual critical race theory.

2771
02:53:44,200 --> 02:53:45,920
Speaker 1: It's that. But I think everyone listening to this kind

2772
02:53:45,959 --> 02:53:49,520
Speaker 1: of already are already knows that Texas Governor Greg Abbott,

2773
02:53:49,720 --> 02:53:51,560
Speaker 1: which is gonna be just who's gonna be a recurring

2774
02:53:51,640 --> 02:53:55,720
Speaker 1: character on this episode UM, kind of has taken this

2775
02:53:55,879 --> 02:53:59,280
Speaker 1: whole you know, calling the police on librarians thing, uh

2776
02:53:59,520 --> 02:54:02,560
Speaker 1: much for a kind of demanding that the state's education

2777
02:54:02,640 --> 02:54:07,039
Speaker 1: agency quote investigate any criminal activity in our public schools

2778
02:54:07,120 --> 02:54:11,720
Speaker 1: involving the availability of pornography, a move that kind of

2779
02:54:11,800 --> 02:54:14,440
Speaker 1: librarians in the state fear could make them targets of

2780
02:54:14,480 --> 02:54:17,720
Speaker 1: criminal complaints. For again, the stalking books about sex said,

2781
02:54:17,879 --> 02:54:20,400
Speaker 1: or you know, stalking books that not even not not

2782
02:54:20,480 --> 02:54:22,080
Speaker 1: not even not even not even but like sex head,

2783
02:54:22,120 --> 02:54:25,160
Speaker 1: just just like books that mentioned an alternative to the

2784
02:54:25,240 --> 02:54:28,520
Speaker 1: heteronormative like you are the gender that you are signed

2785
02:54:28,520 --> 02:54:31,400
Speaker 1: at birth, like idea, like anything other than that is

2786
02:54:31,480 --> 02:54:34,680
Speaker 1: now could get them in trouble. So anything that doesn't

2787
02:54:34,720 --> 02:54:37,680
Speaker 1: kind of fall under the Christian supremacist like worldview of

2788
02:54:37,760 --> 02:54:42,240
Speaker 1: sexuality and gender. It's it's not great. There's a it's

2789
02:54:42,680 --> 02:54:45,959
Speaker 1: so yeah, all boys aren't blue. The book, written by

2790
02:54:46,160 --> 02:54:50,120
Speaker 1: by George M. Johnson, has been similar to the gender

2791
02:54:50,200 --> 02:54:52,400
Speaker 1: queer graphic novel, is one of the most banned books

2792
02:54:52,440 --> 02:54:55,000
Speaker 1: of last year, targeted for removal in at least a

2793
02:54:55,080 --> 02:54:58,560
Speaker 1: fifteen states. Um, it's a lot of the organizing of

2794
02:54:58,600 --> 02:55:01,640
Speaker 1: these efforts kind of start online. There's like Telegram channels,

2795
02:55:01,680 --> 02:55:04,280
Speaker 1: Facebook groups, and then they carry over into like school

2796
02:55:04,320 --> 02:55:07,600
Speaker 1: board protests, and then eventually, like you know, maybe some

2797
02:55:07,680 --> 02:55:09,880
Speaker 1: school board members will will will catch onto this and

2798
02:55:09,920 --> 02:55:12,520
Speaker 1: start advocating for it. Then you know, the state governor,

2799
02:55:12,640 --> 02:55:15,280
Speaker 1: does you know it's city city councilman, Like all of

2800
02:55:15,320 --> 02:55:17,640
Speaker 1: this thing is is is his whole cycle of organizing

2801
02:55:17,959 --> 02:55:21,959
Speaker 1: that's really picked up alongside the anti CRT stuff many

2802
02:55:22,240 --> 02:55:25,840
Speaker 1: many parents have seen, like Google docs or spreadsheets like

2803
02:55:26,000 --> 02:55:28,720
Speaker 1: the sixteen page one made by Matt Krausse of of

2804
02:55:28,840 --> 02:55:32,760
Speaker 1: contentious titles posted on Facebook by local chapters of organizations

2805
02:55:32,920 --> 02:55:36,840
Speaker 1: such as Mom's for Liberty. So people will make these

2806
02:55:37,000 --> 02:55:39,720
Speaker 1: giant giant spend streets talking about books that they don't like,

2807
02:55:40,080 --> 02:55:42,440
Speaker 1: and then they'll get shared around on Facebook groups. Telegram

2808
02:55:42,560 --> 02:55:47,200
Speaker 1: channels from their librarians. Uh say that parents will ask

2809
02:55:47,280 --> 02:55:51,360
Speaker 1: their schools if these books are available inside libraries, and

2810
02:55:51,480 --> 02:55:54,760
Speaker 1: then we'll start rallying and organizing to get them banned

2811
02:55:54,840 --> 02:55:59,680
Speaker 1: from being available in any kind of public, public government setting,

2812
02:55:59,680 --> 02:56:03,920
Speaker 1: whether the school libraries, whether it be like public libraries,

2813
02:56:03,959 --> 02:56:09,199
Speaker 1: whether that be like online access, all this type of stuff. So, yeah,

2814
02:56:09,640 --> 02:56:14,560
Speaker 1: it's a it's I don't know, it's Organizing against these

2815
02:56:14,560 --> 02:56:17,800
Speaker 1: types of things is never the easiest thing, um, because

2816
02:56:17,840 --> 02:56:20,800
Speaker 1: a lot of times they these people get really get

2817
02:56:20,879 --> 02:56:25,440
Speaker 1: really dedicated onto this because it is such a it's

2818
02:56:25,480 --> 02:56:27,160
Speaker 1: it's it's the whole save the children. The kind of

2819
02:56:27,240 --> 02:56:30,280
Speaker 1: idea which gave Q and On such strength, and q

2820
02:56:30,480 --> 02:56:32,240
Speaker 1: and On is kind of taking a dip down. This

2821
02:56:32,320 --> 02:56:34,640
Speaker 1: stuff is taking a rise up. It's kind of it's

2822
02:56:34,680 --> 02:56:38,920
Speaker 1: passing over the same type of organizing principles online. As

2823
02:56:39,040 --> 02:56:42,240
Speaker 1: as mentioned before, the governor of South Carolina asked the

2824
02:56:42,280 --> 02:56:45,800
Speaker 1: state's Superintendent of Education, but also it's Law enforcement division

2825
02:56:46,040 --> 02:56:49,320
Speaker 1: to investigate the presence of quote, obscene and pornographic materials

2826
02:56:49,400 --> 02:56:52,520
Speaker 1: from its public schools, um you know, citing the Gender

2827
02:56:52,560 --> 02:56:55,720
Speaker 1: and Queer graphic novel as an example that you've seen

2828
02:56:56,760 --> 02:56:59,800
Speaker 1: You've seen mayors in difference in different cities withhold funding

2829
02:56:59,840 --> 02:57:02,960
Speaker 1: for county libraries saying that he will not release money

2830
02:57:03,320 --> 02:57:07,120
Speaker 1: to these candy library systems until books with lgbt Q

2831
02:57:07,360 --> 02:57:11,760
Speaker 1: themes are removed. It's it's pretty grim, uh, And so

2832
02:57:11,920 --> 02:57:15,520
Speaker 1: far efforts to bring criminal charges against librarians and educators

2833
02:57:15,920 --> 02:57:20,480
Speaker 1: have largely faltered, as as law enforcement officials in like

2834
02:57:20,640 --> 02:57:23,560
Speaker 1: Florida and Wyoming and other sites for this type of

2835
02:57:23,600 --> 02:57:26,560
Speaker 1: thing that's been attempted have you know, found really no

2836
02:57:26,760 --> 02:57:30,480
Speaker 1: basis for criminal investigations. But still it's like the same

2837
02:57:30,520 --> 02:57:34,080
Speaker 1: thing for like, even even if this process gets started,

2838
02:57:34,160 --> 02:57:36,840
Speaker 1: it's about building like fear that it could happen to you.

2839
02:57:37,160 --> 02:57:40,160
Speaker 1: It's about you know, this fear that someone's always watching

2840
02:57:40,240 --> 02:57:43,119
Speaker 1: and someone's always wanting to report you. Um, and it's

2841
02:57:43,160 --> 02:57:45,800
Speaker 1: the thing that they happened with Texas and abortion. It's

2842
02:57:45,840 --> 02:57:48,640
Speaker 1: like trying to have like the bounty hunter idea of

2843
02:57:48,760 --> 02:57:51,440
Speaker 1: be like parents are trying to find examples of this

2844
02:57:51,560 --> 02:57:54,080
Speaker 1: to report it. So then so it's like this like

2845
02:57:54,200 --> 02:57:58,240
Speaker 1: proactive kind of surveillance of anything that doesn't fall into

2846
02:57:58,280 --> 02:58:03,800
Speaker 1: the Christian supremacist idea of gender sexuality. It's you know, now,

2847
02:58:04,000 --> 02:58:06,480
Speaker 1: of course that's like a specific interpretation of Christianity. I'm

2848
02:58:06,480 --> 02:58:08,960
Speaker 1: not not saying all Christianities like that, but it is

2849
02:58:09,560 --> 02:58:12,120
Speaker 1: the one of them in the South. It's it is

2850
02:58:12,240 --> 02:58:15,040
Speaker 1: like one of the bigger strains of that type of

2851
02:58:15,200 --> 02:58:18,279
Speaker 1: of that type of kind of religious and politics synthesis.

2852
02:58:20,520 --> 02:58:24,199
Speaker 1: Let's let's see. So courts have generally taken the position

2853
02:58:24,320 --> 02:58:27,760
Speaker 1: that libraries should not remove these books from circulation um

2854
02:58:28,080 --> 02:58:31,360
Speaker 1: but sometimes due to pressure via like loss of funding

2855
02:58:31,800 --> 02:58:33,760
Speaker 1: or depending on how like the how much how much

2856
02:58:33,879 --> 02:58:37,040
Speaker 1: like who's in charge of each state's kind of education system,

2857
02:58:37,320 --> 02:58:38,360
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of a lot of these

2858
02:58:38,400 --> 02:58:40,600
Speaker 1: books have been banned and have have been pulled from

2859
02:58:40,720 --> 02:58:44,120
Speaker 1: many school libraries and many public libraries. Even if it

2860
02:58:44,200 --> 02:58:46,840
Speaker 1: doesn't like go all the way to being like, you know,

2861
02:58:47,040 --> 02:58:50,240
Speaker 1: court mandated all of it, sometimes it doesn't need doesn't

2862
02:58:50,240 --> 02:58:54,600
Speaker 1: even need to get that far. So yeah, because like

2863
02:58:54,879 --> 02:58:57,480
Speaker 1: even if it doesn't get to the court, librarians kind

2864
02:58:57,520 --> 02:59:00,240
Speaker 1: of librarians have said that just the threat of having

2865
02:59:00,280 --> 02:59:03,200
Speaker 1: to defend against charges and having to defend against like

2866
02:59:03,240 --> 02:59:05,440
Speaker 1: accusations of pedophilia and grooming and all this kind of

2867
02:59:05,480 --> 02:59:08,720
Speaker 1: nonsense is enough to get many educators to censor themselves

2868
02:59:08,840 --> 02:59:10,560
Speaker 1: by just not talking these books to begin with, to

2869
02:59:10,680 --> 02:59:13,920
Speaker 1: avoid that whole kind of debacle, because even just the

2870
02:59:14,000 --> 02:59:16,960
Speaker 1: public spectacle of an accusation can be enough to like

2871
02:59:17,160 --> 02:59:19,880
Speaker 1: ruin someone's life inside like a small like in like

2872
02:59:19,920 --> 02:59:22,320
Speaker 1: a small community. Right, it's it's it's is if you

2873
02:59:22,400 --> 02:59:24,080
Speaker 1: know parents, if you know kids, and this is like

2874
02:59:24,120 --> 02:59:25,959
Speaker 1: part of your social group, it's part of like wherever

2875
02:59:26,040 --> 02:59:29,560
Speaker 1: you're like situated in your community. If this type of

2876
02:59:29,600 --> 02:59:31,720
Speaker 1: thing starts up, it can really be devastating to someone's

2877
02:59:31,720 --> 02:59:35,720
Speaker 1: personal life. And of obviously this is very ironic because

2878
02:59:35,760 --> 02:59:38,120
Speaker 1: all these same people who are trying to get get

2879
02:59:38,160 --> 02:59:40,800
Speaker 1: these books banned also crying and scream about like censorship

2880
02:59:41,120 --> 02:59:44,560
Speaker 1: and cancel culture um, while literally advocating the burning of

2881
02:59:44,600 --> 02:59:47,680
Speaker 1: comic books um, and even like fucking like advocating the

2882
02:59:47,720 --> 02:59:51,480
Speaker 1: burning of no Your Rights books. So it's it's like, yes,

2883
02:59:51,600 --> 02:59:54,880
Speaker 1: they will cry and scream about canceler culture um, but

2884
02:59:55,000 --> 02:59:56,720
Speaker 1: they will do all of this stuff as well. It's not,

2885
02:59:56,879 --> 03:00:00,760
Speaker 1: it's not there is no ideological consistency. They're they're they're

2886
03:00:00,800 --> 03:00:02,680
Speaker 1: they're not they're not trying to that's not that's that's

2887
03:00:02,720 --> 03:00:06,160
Speaker 1: not part of the point. It's because it's not even

2888
03:00:06,240 --> 03:00:08,840
Speaker 1: hypocrisy in their own eyes, because all of this is

2889
03:00:08,879 --> 03:00:10,880
Speaker 1: for the great or good. It's it's about protecting the

2890
03:00:11,040 --> 03:00:13,960
Speaker 1: innocence of children. Right. If you'll notice that a lot

2891
03:00:13,959 --> 03:00:16,760
Speaker 1: of these bills and efforts try to not explicitly attack

2892
03:00:16,879 --> 03:00:19,760
Speaker 1: books for being gay or queer. Instead, they will label

2893
03:00:19,840 --> 03:00:24,080
Speaker 1: them as pornographic or obscene. Um. Obviously, many books that

2894
03:00:24,120 --> 03:00:27,959
Speaker 1: conservatives will defend have just as graphic depictions of intimacy

2895
03:00:28,240 --> 03:00:33,600
Speaker 1: or autonic like or um or anatomy um, but usually

2896
03:00:34,040 --> 03:00:37,440
Speaker 1: heterosexual in nature, and alongside other kind of values that

2897
03:00:37,480 --> 03:00:39,760
Speaker 1: the right wants to push um. You know, even like

2898
03:00:39,840 --> 03:00:42,720
Speaker 1: the fucking Bible is more graphic than the gender queer

2899
03:00:42,720 --> 03:00:47,360
Speaker 1: and graphic novel um. But when conservatives say pornography, what

2900
03:00:47,480 --> 03:00:50,200
Speaker 1: they just mean is that is any display of queerness, right,

2901
03:00:50,600 --> 03:00:54,720
Speaker 1: anything outside the mold of the fundamentalist, Christian supremacist worldview

2902
03:00:55,040 --> 03:00:58,360
Speaker 1: that they're fighting for. Just like when they say banned

2903
03:00:58,400 --> 03:01:00,680
Speaker 1: critical race theory, they don't they don't actually mean that.

2904
03:01:00,800 --> 03:01:03,800
Speaker 1: What they mean is ban any discussion on racism that

2905
03:01:04,200 --> 03:01:07,680
Speaker 1: kind of disrupts white comfort. It's it's it's it's they

2906
03:01:08,200 --> 03:01:10,800
Speaker 1: they have their own framework to view this and they

2907
03:01:10,840 --> 03:01:14,400
Speaker 1: can justify it within their own framework, so you know,

2908
03:01:14,560 --> 03:01:16,720
Speaker 1: it's it should not surprise anyone that many of these

2909
03:01:16,800 --> 03:01:21,160
Speaker 1: queer book bannings are being organized alongside bands on books

2910
03:01:21,200 --> 03:01:25,400
Speaker 1: focusing on race and racism. Um Matt Cross's sixteen page

2911
03:01:25,520 --> 03:01:30,240
Speaker 1: spreadsheet was was was made to accompany House Bill three

2912
03:01:30,360 --> 03:01:33,800
Speaker 1: nine seven nine, the so called anti CRT bill, that

2913
03:01:33,920 --> 03:01:37,280
Speaker 1: band's teaching of any materials that could mean quote an

2914
03:01:37,320 --> 03:01:41,279
Speaker 1: individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other psychological

2915
03:01:41,320 --> 03:01:44,880
Speaker 1: distress on account of the individual's race or sex. So

2916
03:01:45,280 --> 03:01:48,400
Speaker 1: just banning teaching of things that could make a theoretical

2917
03:01:48,520 --> 03:01:52,640
Speaker 1: person kind of uncomfortable, which is it seems like a

2918
03:01:53,800 --> 03:01:58,560
Speaker 1: great way to view education. Uh yeah, let's just skip

2919
03:01:58,640 --> 03:02:00,880
Speaker 1: over the parts that are uncomfortable and that I'll make

2920
03:02:00,920 --> 03:02:06,000
Speaker 1: a great society. Wow. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm

2921
03:02:06,000 --> 03:02:10,760
Speaker 1: gonna quote from a great article by Samantha Rydell in

2922
03:02:10,879 --> 03:02:15,680
Speaker 1: them dot Com quote small. Wonder then that much of

2923
03:02:15,760 --> 03:02:18,000
Speaker 1: the current of fervor can be traced back to the

2924
03:02:18,080 --> 03:02:22,280
Speaker 1: conservative group No Left Turn founded in to ban books

2925
03:02:22,280 --> 03:02:28,920
Speaker 1: about racial inequality from classrooms by Elena Fish being an

2926
03:02:29,000 --> 03:02:32,520
Speaker 1: Alna Fish being believes that Antifa children quote quote quote

2927
03:02:32,520 --> 03:02:35,960
Speaker 1: Antiva children are going to assault her kids for being white. UM.

2928
03:02:36,160 --> 03:02:39,360
Speaker 1: The organization No Left Turn rocketed to prominence in the

2929
03:02:39,480 --> 03:02:42,879
Speaker 1: anti education right wing after fish Being was interviewed by

2930
03:02:42,920 --> 03:02:46,640
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson on Fox News. UM a tie, which similarly

2931
03:02:46,720 --> 03:02:50,160
Speaker 1: lifted like minded boats such as Moms for Liberty. No

2932
03:02:50,360 --> 03:02:54,040
Speaker 1: Left Turns website directs parents to a laundry list of

2933
03:02:54,080 --> 03:02:57,080
Speaker 1: books that they claim are used to quote indoctrinate kids

2934
03:02:57,160 --> 03:03:00,880
Speaker 1: into a dangerous ideology, including a rope best section on

2935
03:03:01,200 --> 03:03:05,840
Speaker 1: quote comprehensive sexual education. UM here that pornography lie is

2936
03:03:05,920 --> 03:03:08,920
Speaker 1: laid bare with over forty books whose only kind of

2937
03:03:09,080 --> 03:03:11,440
Speaker 1: through line is that they deal with lgbt Q themes.

2938
03:03:12,080 --> 03:03:16,000
Speaker 1: The picture book I Am Jazz, Uh, Kate Bornstein's My

2939
03:03:16,160 --> 03:03:19,440
Speaker 1: Gender Workbook, and the y a novel Two Boys Kissing

2940
03:03:20,040 --> 03:03:22,960
Speaker 1: also included, as Margaret Atwood's The Hand the Handmaiden's Tale.

2941
03:03:23,520 --> 03:03:26,880
Speaker 1: UM No Left Turn and discriminately targets all these titles

2942
03:03:27,000 --> 03:03:30,720
Speaker 1: because they simply feature queer people having lives or, in

2943
03:03:30,800 --> 03:03:34,520
Speaker 1: the case of like Margaret Atwood, having their lives be ended. So,

2944
03:03:34,800 --> 03:03:37,880
Speaker 1: after all, ideas ideas like that might influence kids to

2945
03:03:37,959 --> 03:03:40,920
Speaker 1: think that they could be different right any and for

2946
03:03:41,000 --> 03:03:43,800
Speaker 1: conservative parents, there's no greater horror than the thought of

2947
03:03:43,879 --> 03:03:46,760
Speaker 1: not being able to control their children or the idea

2948
03:03:46,840 --> 03:03:49,640
Speaker 1: that their kids might not be straight. It should come

2949
03:03:49,680 --> 03:03:53,480
Speaker 1: as no surprise that the grassroots campaigns quote unquote grassroots

2950
03:03:53,560 --> 03:03:56,680
Speaker 1: campaigns like No Left Turn are in reality links to

2951
03:03:56,800 --> 03:04:00,800
Speaker 1: influential conservative donors and packs like the catag Institute and

2952
03:04:00,920 --> 03:04:07,039
Speaker 1: the former Federative Society. Pardon, yes, like the Cato it's

2953
03:04:07,120 --> 03:04:09,520
Speaker 1: named after Kato Kalin, the guy who lived behind o

2954
03:04:09,680 --> 03:04:17,240
Speaker 1: Ja's house. Is that true? No, it's yeah. I should

2955
03:04:17,280 --> 03:04:21,560
Speaker 1: have just let that. I should have just got He's

2956
03:04:21,560 --> 03:04:25,840
Speaker 1: gonna slightly constantly expand by like red string. It's like

2957
03:04:26,320 --> 03:04:29,360
Speaker 1: my red string board has head by head like yeah,

2958
03:04:29,520 --> 03:04:32,440
Speaker 1: oh yeah. Cato Institute named after Kato Kalin, the guy

2959
03:04:32,520 --> 03:04:37,760
Speaker 1: who o j Surper bro buddy. But it should come

2960
03:04:37,800 --> 03:04:40,200
Speaker 1: as no surprise that the grass roots quote unquote grassroots

2961
03:04:40,240 --> 03:04:42,840
Speaker 1: campaigns like No Left Turn on Reality link to influential

2962
03:04:42,879 --> 03:04:46,480
Speaker 1: conservative donors and packs like the Cato Institute and former

2963
03:04:46,959 --> 03:04:50,600
Speaker 1: Federalist Society and Vice president Leonard Leo. But then again,

2964
03:04:50,840 --> 03:04:54,320
Speaker 1: lies don't matter to the reactionary base that Republicans are

2965
03:04:54,320 --> 03:04:57,240
Speaker 1: hoping to rally to the front of this culture war.

2966
03:04:57,879 --> 03:05:00,400
Speaker 1: What matters to them is controlling the information that children

2967
03:05:00,480 --> 03:05:03,920
Speaker 1: have access to to obsensively keep them safe and innocent

2968
03:05:04,520 --> 03:05:07,120
Speaker 1: but in truth, because they think that if kids don't

2969
03:05:07,160 --> 03:05:10,760
Speaker 1: know but lgbt Q identities, they won't form one. It's

2970
03:05:10,840 --> 03:05:14,800
Speaker 1: conversion therapy by ignorance. End quote. But that that's an

2971
03:05:14,800 --> 03:05:16,600
Speaker 1: idea I'm going to kind of come back through, come

2972
03:05:16,600 --> 03:05:18,560
Speaker 1: back to a few times throughout the course of this episode,

2973
03:05:18,920 --> 03:05:22,560
Speaker 1: is the idea of conversion therapy by ignorance, which really

2974
03:05:22,640 --> 03:05:26,680
Speaker 1: does kind of I think have introduced a really good

2975
03:05:26,920 --> 03:05:30,320
Speaker 1: like mental framework to understand why these things are happening,

2976
03:05:30,560 --> 03:05:32,720
Speaker 1: because they think if they can keep kids from learning

2977
03:05:32,760 --> 03:05:36,520
Speaker 1: about these things, then they won't become gay or trance.

2978
03:05:36,680 --> 03:05:39,160
Speaker 1: It is it's like trying to isolate them so that

2979
03:05:39,280 --> 03:05:42,240
Speaker 1: so that their reality tunnel is so small so that

2980
03:05:42,400 --> 03:05:44,240
Speaker 1: they won't hopefully will never like break out of it.

2981
03:05:44,720 --> 03:05:47,760
Speaker 1: Um Now, obviously, if kids feel if kids start having

2982
03:05:47,840 --> 03:05:51,000
Speaker 1: feelings that break that channel, if they don't know that

2983
03:05:51,080 --> 03:05:53,280
Speaker 1: there's an alternative to that, that really kind of leads

2984
03:05:53,280 --> 03:05:55,520
Speaker 1: to things like depression and suicide, which is why it's

2985
03:05:55,560 --> 03:05:58,959
Speaker 1: so high among among queer kids in that region because

2986
03:05:59,520 --> 03:06:03,280
Speaker 1: it's like it's like they're fundamentally breaking realities. So it's

2987
03:06:03,640 --> 03:06:06,760
Speaker 1: that's hard to cope with. We're just gonna, it's gonna do.

2988
03:06:06,800 --> 03:06:09,000
Speaker 1: What's gonna do kind of one more segment quickly before

2989
03:06:09,120 --> 03:06:12,920
Speaker 1: before we haven't had break it is UH. It's it's interesting.

2990
03:06:13,120 --> 03:06:14,600
Speaker 1: We have like a lot of the parents that have

2991
03:06:14,720 --> 03:06:18,600
Speaker 1: been rallying for this UH have some interesting track records themselves.

2992
03:06:19,480 --> 03:06:21,280
Speaker 1: We can even you know, go back to UM uh

2993
03:06:21,520 --> 03:06:24,720
Speaker 1: to the Family Research Council with Josh Dougger having to

2994
03:06:24,879 --> 03:06:28,400
Speaker 1: save the children idea well you know himself being a

2995
03:06:28,560 --> 03:06:36,520
Speaker 1: child molester or help Billy Cade like yeah so um.

2996
03:06:37,200 --> 03:06:41,520
Speaker 1: In a secondingly ironic case, a Missouri parent named Ryan

2997
03:06:41,640 --> 03:06:44,640
Speaker 1: Utterback was charged in December with multiple accounts of child

2998
03:06:44,720 --> 03:06:49,400
Speaker 1: molestation and UH giving and distributing pornography to miners, including

2999
03:06:49,400 --> 03:06:52,720
Speaker 1: a child as young as four UM. Upon his rest,

3000
03:06:52,840 --> 03:06:56,680
Speaker 1: Utterback was heavily involved in the book banning advocacy, including

3001
03:06:56,720 --> 03:07:00,720
Speaker 1: protests against the books All Boys Aren't Blue and UH

3002
03:07:01,080 --> 03:07:04,880
Speaker 1: and other sex sad books. UM. He he said he

3003
03:07:05,680 --> 03:07:07,680
Speaker 1: gave a quote before he got arrested and when he

3004
03:07:07,760 --> 03:07:10,760
Speaker 1: was still doing like the book banning advocacy. Quote only

3005
03:07:10,879 --> 03:07:14,000
Speaker 1: I have the intimate understanding of what isn't isn't appropriate

3006
03:07:14,080 --> 03:07:18,560
Speaker 1: for my children, uh, which is quite quite the quite

3007
03:07:18,680 --> 03:07:22,240
Speaker 1: sentence to say on someone who is now arrested for

3008
03:07:22,280 --> 03:07:29,080
Speaker 1: a child molestation. So yeah, that's not Yeah, that's uh

3009
03:07:29,160 --> 03:07:32,520
Speaker 1: that sucks. But yeah, so like it's it's the idea

3010
03:07:32,600 --> 03:07:35,880
Speaker 1: that erasing, erasing documentation of queer lives and making it

3011
03:07:36,040 --> 03:07:39,280
Speaker 1: so that so that people to their kids only are

3012
03:07:39,600 --> 03:07:42,920
Speaker 1: exposed to a very kind of isolated worldview will make

3013
03:07:42,959 --> 03:07:45,760
Speaker 1: it easier to control um. And if they don't hear

3014
03:07:45,760 --> 03:07:48,040
Speaker 1: about something, maybe they'll just you know, live their life

3015
03:07:48,080 --> 03:07:51,080
Speaker 1: as a regular straight child. And that's that's their hope.

3016
03:07:51,160 --> 03:07:53,480
Speaker 1: Now obviously that doesn't that doesn't really happen in practice,

3017
03:07:53,959 --> 03:07:55,920
Speaker 1: but that's kind of what they're working towards. That. That's

3018
03:07:55,959 --> 03:07:57,959
Speaker 1: why this save the children thing is so important to them,

3019
03:07:58,080 --> 03:07:59,720
Speaker 1: because they really do think that they can save the

3020
03:07:59,800 --> 03:08:02,560
Speaker 1: kid children, like they do think that they can keep

3021
03:08:02,920 --> 03:08:06,640
Speaker 1: keep them from this stuff. So I think there's one

3022
03:08:06,680 --> 03:08:09,040
Speaker 1: other reason that they're doing that specifically they focus on

3023
03:08:09,120 --> 03:08:14,480
Speaker 1: books too, specifically the pornographic attack, which is that these

3024
03:08:14,560 --> 03:08:18,760
Speaker 1: kind of like incredible hard right, evangelicals are not the

3025
03:08:18,959 --> 03:08:22,360
Speaker 1: entire Republican base, and so like there are people who

3026
03:08:22,440 --> 03:08:24,840
Speaker 1: they have to convent, like they have to fully radicalize

3027
03:08:24,840 --> 03:08:28,279
Speaker 1: into into the extermination of where people the specifically extremis

3028
03:08:28,280 --> 03:08:31,560
Speaker 1: to transpeople and the like. The easiest way to do

3029
03:08:31,760 --> 03:08:37,080
Speaker 1: that is just by constantly associating anything queer with pedophilia

3030
03:08:37,280 --> 03:08:42,360
Speaker 1: and with like specific pifically pedophilia and specifically grooming. And

3031
03:08:42,720 --> 03:08:44,959
Speaker 1: you know, these kind of campaigns like they have dual effect.

3032
03:08:45,000 --> 03:08:47,160
Speaker 1: They have the effect on the one hand of the

3033
03:08:47,240 --> 03:08:51,280
Speaker 1: actual material harm to children and they're you know, like

3034
03:08:51,879 --> 03:08:54,000
Speaker 1: preventing them from having any access to anything that shows

3035
03:08:54,080 --> 03:08:56,320
Speaker 1: them that they could be queer. And then simultaneously it

3036
03:08:56,400 --> 03:09:00,280
Speaker 1: has this effect of creating this association in side of

3037
03:09:00,320 --> 03:09:04,000
Speaker 1: conservatives that allows you to push for even more genocidal

3038
03:09:04,040 --> 03:09:06,440
Speaker 1: stuff that without this they might not have been able

3039
03:09:06,440 --> 03:09:12,039
Speaker 1: to swallow. Yeah, well, speaking of genocidal actions, I'm sure

3040
03:09:12,200 --> 03:09:14,600
Speaker 1: that one of our sponsors have contributed to at least

3041
03:09:14,600 --> 03:09:18,160
Speaker 1: one attempt to genocide. I mean, we we are actually

3042
03:09:18,600 --> 03:09:23,359
Speaker 1: entirely sponsored this week by the former Indonesian dictator Suharto,

3043
03:09:23,600 --> 03:09:27,040
Speaker 1: So you know, big big thank you to him. Uh

3044
03:09:27,200 --> 03:09:35,680
Speaker 1: Pancasila forever and yeah, here's some ads. Ah, we're back.

3045
03:09:36,879 --> 03:09:40,400
Speaker 1: Don't don't don't google what Zukarno did in uh in

3046
03:09:40,520 --> 03:09:47,160
Speaker 1: West Papua. Hey, Hey, hey, hey, Suharto and Sukarno different. Yes, yes, yeah,

3047
03:09:47,240 --> 03:09:49,000
Speaker 1: I am very clear on this and that's why you

3048
03:09:49,040 --> 03:09:52,480
Speaker 1: should not google what Zukarno did in in Papua because

3049
03:09:52,920 --> 03:09:56,280
Speaker 1: dear God. But we will put his pastreon in the description.

3050
03:09:56,480 --> 03:09:59,280
Speaker 1: We will be backing his patreon heavily. Look at the

3051
03:09:59,320 --> 03:10:04,080
Speaker 1: show notes for at UM. Hi, welcome back. We're gonna

3052
03:10:04,440 --> 03:10:07,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna segue into other types of legislation now, but

3053
03:10:07,840 --> 03:10:10,720
Speaker 1: still kind of focusing on the whole parents rights to

3054
03:10:10,840 --> 03:10:14,920
Speaker 1: decide what scientific and medical knowledge children can have access

3055
03:10:15,000 --> 03:10:18,440
Speaker 1: to UM in terms of like the conversion therapy by

3056
03:10:18,480 --> 03:10:22,920
Speaker 1: ignorance category. So we're gonna talk about they don't Say

3057
03:10:22,920 --> 03:10:25,600
Speaker 1: Gay bill. So Florida's House and Senate just passed the

3058
03:10:25,840 --> 03:10:28,680
Speaker 1: so called don't say gay bill that bands mentioned of

3059
03:10:28,760 --> 03:10:32,120
Speaker 1: anything other than the strict heteronormativity and the you are

3060
03:10:32,160 --> 03:10:34,880
Speaker 1: the gender assined that birth kind of idea. UM for

3061
03:10:35,160 --> 03:10:39,039
Speaker 1: at least most developmentary school, it's banned and possibly farther

3062
03:10:39,120 --> 03:10:42,160
Speaker 1: reaching than that UM with teachers also opening themselves up

3063
03:10:42,200 --> 03:10:45,920
Speaker 1: to lawsuits if they fail to comply. It's formerly known

3064
03:10:46,120 --> 03:10:50,680
Speaker 1: as the Parental Rights in Education Bill, and the text

3065
03:10:50,800 --> 03:10:54,600
Speaker 1: of the legislation states that quote, classroom instruction by school

3066
03:10:54,720 --> 03:10:58,400
Speaker 1: personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity

3067
03:10:58,760 --> 03:11:01,200
Speaker 1: may not occur in kind of garden through third grade,

3068
03:11:01,640 --> 03:11:04,040
Speaker 1: or in any manner that is not aged appropriate or

3069
03:11:04,120 --> 03:11:08,160
Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards. So

3070
03:11:08,520 --> 03:11:11,920
Speaker 1: it is it is very intentionally vague for how far

3071
03:11:12,000 --> 03:11:15,120
Speaker 1: reaching this can be, for how much they will determine

3072
03:11:15,200 --> 03:11:18,800
Speaker 1: what and what isn't appropriate for grades for an up

3073
03:11:19,200 --> 03:11:23,880
Speaker 1: who knows. Uh. Yeah, but it's not just it's not

3074
03:11:24,080 --> 03:11:28,520
Speaker 1: just limited to early grades. Classroom instruction on sexual orientation

3075
03:11:28,560 --> 03:11:31,720
Speaker 1: and general identity could be prohibited or at least taken

3076
03:11:31,760 --> 03:11:34,960
Speaker 1: to court at all grade levels, Uh, depending on what

3077
03:11:35,400 --> 03:11:39,760
Speaker 1: the parents find unacceptable. Right. It is. It's it's it's

3078
03:11:39,760 --> 03:11:43,760
Speaker 1: based on what the parents want to want to happen

3079
03:11:43,879 --> 03:11:47,080
Speaker 1: to to to the kids that are under their care.

3080
03:11:47,280 --> 03:11:51,120
Speaker 1: So it's it's specifically following kind of the framework that, yeah,

3081
03:11:51,120 --> 03:11:54,080
Speaker 1: you can you can report something if you don't like it.

3082
03:11:54,320 --> 03:11:56,720
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's very much pandering to like a

3083
03:11:56,800 --> 03:12:00,240
Speaker 1: reactionary conservative all this stuff that conservatives said was a

3084
03:12:00,360 --> 03:12:03,959
Speaker 1: nightmare about like the Stazi in East Germany and the KGB.

3085
03:12:04,520 --> 03:12:08,000
Speaker 1: They're like, but what if we just decentralized that, you know,

3086
03:12:08,920 --> 03:12:13,200
Speaker 1: and and let anyone who's a biggot report and ruin

3087
03:12:13,320 --> 03:12:16,040
Speaker 1: the lives of people around them for a variety of

3088
03:12:16,120 --> 03:12:21,480
Speaker 1: bullshit reasons. It's good. Yeah, it's ah. And I mean

3089
03:12:21,959 --> 03:12:26,720
Speaker 1: just like other states, like in Texas, the enforcement of

3090
03:12:26,800 --> 03:12:28,920
Speaker 1: it is not initially done by the government, but is

3091
03:12:28,959 --> 03:12:31,879
Speaker 1: open to a concern and fanatical public, saying that parents

3092
03:12:32,000 --> 03:12:35,280
Speaker 1: may bring action against the school district to obtain a

3093
03:12:35,680 --> 03:12:39,520
Speaker 1: declaratory judgment UM, and a court may award damages and

3094
03:12:39,600 --> 03:12:42,279
Speaker 1: attorney's fees if it finds the school violated the measure,

3095
03:12:42,480 --> 03:12:46,520
Speaker 1: So there's like financial incentives for parents for this UM.

3096
03:12:47,080 --> 03:12:49,720
Speaker 1: The bill will come into effect on the first of July,

3097
03:12:50,240 --> 03:12:54,480
Speaker 1: with all school districts UM required to update their policies

3098
03:12:54,560 --> 03:12:58,440
Speaker 1: by at least June. There was there was also a

3099
03:12:58,520 --> 03:13:01,760
Speaker 1: proposed amendment that would have required schools and educators to

3100
03:13:01,920 --> 03:13:05,480
Speaker 1: report if they knew or suspected a child was lgbt

3101
03:13:05,600 --> 03:13:08,880
Speaker 1: Q to their parents within six weeks. Of learning that Um,

3102
03:13:09,240 --> 03:13:11,039
Speaker 1: so within six weeks of learning, if they're not sis

3103
03:13:11,160 --> 03:13:14,360
Speaker 1: or straight, they would have to be reported to the parents. Um.

3104
03:13:14,560 --> 03:13:16,959
Speaker 1: But that that part was withdrawn before the bill reached

3105
03:13:17,040 --> 03:13:19,080
Speaker 1: the House. But in terms of like, this is the

3106
03:13:19,120 --> 03:13:21,320
Speaker 1: type of thing that well, is that like the legislators

3107
03:13:21,360 --> 03:13:24,480
Speaker 1: are thinking of. When it became increasingly apparent that the

3108
03:13:24,520 --> 03:13:27,360
Speaker 1: bill was going to be passed no matter what, uh,

3109
03:13:28,120 --> 03:13:32,200
Speaker 1: a Democrat, Chevin Jones, the first openly gay Florida state senator,

3110
03:13:32,520 --> 03:13:34,680
Speaker 1: tried to amend the bill to narrow the language to

3111
03:13:34,800 --> 03:13:37,760
Speaker 1: say that in classroom instruction should not be intended to

3112
03:13:37,879 --> 03:13:41,280
Speaker 1: change the students sexual orientation or gender identity, and specifically

3113
03:13:41,360 --> 03:13:44,039
Speaker 1: not marginalized queer people, and instead just limit the bill

3114
03:13:44,080 --> 03:13:47,680
Speaker 1: to itach appropriate sex. Said, and that amendment obviously failed,

3115
03:13:48,480 --> 03:13:51,960
Speaker 1: with Dennis Backley, the bill's main sponsor, saying that it

3116
03:13:51,959 --> 03:13:55,440
Speaker 1: would significantly get the bill's intent. So it's it's it's

3117
03:13:55,520 --> 03:13:59,360
Speaker 1: it's specifically to suppress knowledge of being queer. That is

3118
03:13:59,440 --> 03:14:02,320
Speaker 1: that is the whole that's the whole point of the bill. Um,

3119
03:14:02,879 --> 03:14:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the the governor claims that the

3120
03:14:05,400 --> 03:14:09,080
Speaker 1: bill addresses quote sexual stuff and quote telling kids that

3121
03:14:09,160 --> 03:14:11,520
Speaker 1: they may be able to pick genders and all that,

3122
03:14:12,920 --> 03:14:16,880
Speaker 1: saying that that has nothing to do like this is

3123
03:14:16,920 --> 03:14:19,200
Speaker 1: nothing to do with sex at all, like literally nothing,

3124
03:14:20,000 --> 03:14:24,080
Speaker 1: that's like but nothing. Yeah, it's but they still knew it,

3125
03:14:24,320 --> 03:14:27,640
Speaker 1: like the pornographic obscene kind of category because like it's right,

3126
03:14:27,720 --> 03:14:30,959
Speaker 1: it's the same thing like if you show gay people kissing,

3127
03:14:31,720 --> 03:14:34,240
Speaker 1: that is sexual. If you show stray people kissing, that

3128
03:14:34,400 --> 03:14:39,200
Speaker 1: isn't right. It's it's being queer as innately more obscene.

3129
03:14:39,320 --> 03:14:41,120
Speaker 1: It is. It is, it is. It is so much

3130
03:14:41,200 --> 03:14:44,160
Speaker 1: more of an issue. Rana Santist governor also said, like

3131
03:14:44,400 --> 03:14:48,480
Speaker 1: how many parents want their kindergarteners to have transjagenderism or

3132
03:14:48,600 --> 03:14:52,280
Speaker 1: something injected into their school discussion. Um, but that's so

3133
03:14:52,360 --> 03:14:54,119
Speaker 1: that type of stuff he says that like press conferences

3134
03:14:54,120 --> 03:14:55,720
Speaker 1: and stuff. So yeah, it is. It is very clear

3135
03:14:55,760 --> 03:14:58,800
Speaker 1: that the bill is targeted specifically towards gay people, um

3136
03:14:58,920 --> 03:15:03,480
Speaker 1: and being trying are being queer, being non sis, non straight,

3137
03:15:03,680 --> 03:15:07,480
Speaker 1: that whole that that that whole category. Um. The governor's

3138
03:15:07,480 --> 03:15:12,760
Speaker 1: press secretary called it the anti grooming bill, Um, you know,

3139
03:15:12,879 --> 03:15:15,920
Speaker 1: reviving the type of like you know, like that LGBT

3140
03:15:16,000 --> 03:15:20,039
Speaker 1: attacks have had for years, suggesting that you know, being

3141
03:15:20,160 --> 03:15:22,560
Speaker 1: gay means that you are a pedophile, or being trans

3142
03:15:22,680 --> 03:15:25,040
Speaker 1: means that you're a pedophile. It ties in with this

3143
03:15:25,240 --> 03:15:27,520
Speaker 1: thing you'll see in like the far right and the

3144
03:15:27,600 --> 03:15:29,959
Speaker 1: libertarian right, where people who have like kill your local

3145
03:15:30,040 --> 03:15:33,560
Speaker 1: pedophile bumper stickers and stuff because you can't argue with like, yeah,

3146
03:15:33,600 --> 03:15:36,520
Speaker 1: pedophiles are are the worst, that's horrible, But you don't

3147
03:15:36,560 --> 03:15:39,920
Speaker 1: actually mean people who molest children. You mean people who

3148
03:15:40,000 --> 03:15:42,160
Speaker 1: live in a way that you consider obscene, which you

3149
03:15:42,200 --> 03:15:45,360
Speaker 1: are equating with pedophilias that you can justify murdering those

3150
03:15:45,400 --> 03:15:50,039
Speaker 1: people eventually. Yep uh yeah, and when and when when

3151
03:15:50,120 --> 03:15:53,200
Speaker 1: confronted with actual pedophiles, they literally don't do ship well.

3152
03:15:53,200 --> 03:15:55,360
Speaker 1: They are off Like Andy No, for a great example,

3153
03:15:55,560 --> 03:15:57,920
Speaker 1: has regularly hung out around a specific I think it

3154
03:15:58,040 --> 03:16:01,880
Speaker 1: mostly is his name pedophile. The longest serving Republican Speaker

3155
03:16:01,920 --> 03:16:04,680
Speaker 1: of the House was a pedophile and passive scale it

3156
03:16:05,000 --> 03:16:09,200
Speaker 1: Dennis Haster d Hast that's what that? Um, that's what that?

3157
03:16:09,680 --> 03:16:12,199
Speaker 1: What's that German band? This would have been a decent

3158
03:16:12,280 --> 03:16:15,440
Speaker 1: joke if I remember their name right, Romstein. Yeah, well

3159
03:16:15,480 --> 03:16:19,200
Speaker 1: I sucked it up, okay, so anyway, please please continue.

3160
03:16:20,200 --> 03:16:23,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, but like they don't say gay. Bill tries

3161
03:16:23,360 --> 03:16:26,360
Speaker 1: even less than some of the like school book bands

3162
03:16:26,760 --> 03:16:29,840
Speaker 1: to hide behind the defense of prohibiting pornography. Like it

3163
03:16:30,000 --> 03:16:32,280
Speaker 1: just says the quiet part out loud, you know, saying

3164
03:16:32,360 --> 03:16:35,760
Speaker 1: that this bill is grounded in the belief loud part

3165
03:16:35,800 --> 03:16:39,440
Speaker 1: out loud. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like the bills just

3166
03:16:39,480 --> 03:16:42,360
Speaker 1: grounded in the belief that LGBTQ people simply by existing

3167
03:16:42,480 --> 03:16:45,880
Speaker 1: are a threat to like children and must be completely arrassed.

3168
03:16:45,959 --> 03:16:49,279
Speaker 1: Like that's that's the whole that's the whole idea. Following

3169
03:16:49,360 --> 03:16:52,280
Speaker 1: several hours of debate ahead of the vote in the Senate,

3170
03:16:53,120 --> 03:16:57,880
Speaker 1: a bill sponsor Atlanta Garcia claimed that quote, gay is

3171
03:16:57,920 --> 03:17:00,960
Speaker 1: not a permanent thing, and lgbt Q is not a

3172
03:17:01,080 --> 03:17:04,840
Speaker 1: permanent thing. So yeah, it's the type of like conversion

3173
03:17:04,879 --> 03:17:07,040
Speaker 1: therapy by ignorance thing. A lot of these people have

3174
03:17:07,160 --> 03:17:09,800
Speaker 1: advocated for conversion therapy to be legalized in the past

3175
03:17:09,959 --> 03:17:12,640
Speaker 1: or re legalized in the past. So yeah, they just

3176
03:17:12,720 --> 03:17:14,640
Speaker 1: they just don't want gay people to be around because

3177
03:17:14,760 --> 03:17:20,920
Speaker 1: they find the nikki. So it's it's not it's not

3178
03:17:21,040 --> 03:17:24,279
Speaker 1: just Florida though, right the fears with like hyper focusing

3179
03:17:24,440 --> 03:17:26,840
Speaker 1: on you know, just justin, justin, don't say, gay bill

3180
03:17:26,879 --> 03:17:29,440
Speaker 1: in Florida kind of like, you know, it ignores a

3181
03:17:29,520 --> 03:17:31,920
Speaker 1: lot of the other stuff that's happening across the entire country,

3182
03:17:31,920 --> 03:17:33,400
Speaker 1: if you do, when you're just focusing on on state,

3183
03:17:33,640 --> 03:17:36,200
Speaker 1: because there are like fifteen similar bills moving through state

3184
03:17:36,600 --> 03:17:39,800
Speaker 1: legislators that are strict how textbooks and curriculums are allowed

3185
03:17:39,840 --> 03:17:42,720
Speaker 1: to teach lgbt Q topics and even like who can

3186
03:17:42,720 --> 03:17:44,920
Speaker 1: be hired as teachers and what are what are like

3187
03:17:45,000 --> 03:17:46,760
Speaker 1: what's allowed to be said when it comes to genderal

3188
03:17:46,800 --> 03:17:50,039
Speaker 1: identity and sexual orientation. All like stuff is happening all

3189
03:17:50,080 --> 03:17:53,080
Speaker 1: across the country. Um House bill in Tennessee would band

3190
03:17:53,120 --> 03:17:59,640
Speaker 1: textbook and instructural materials that promote normalized support or address lesbian, gay, bisexual,

3191
03:17:59,760 --> 03:18:04,800
Speaker 1: or gender lifestyles quote unquote um in in in case

3192
03:18:04,800 --> 03:18:08,320
Speaker 1: three twelve schools so also also high school um in

3193
03:18:08,840 --> 03:18:11,680
Speaker 1: in UH. In Kansas, there's a bill that seeks to

3194
03:18:11,720 --> 03:18:15,600
Speaker 1: amend the state's absidity laws to make using classroom materials

3195
03:18:15,640 --> 03:18:20,760
Speaker 1: depicting homosexuality a Class B misdemeanor. UH legislators in Indiana

3196
03:18:20,879 --> 03:18:25,160
Speaker 1: are working to bar educators from discussing any content about

3197
03:18:25,200 --> 03:18:30,720
Speaker 1: sexual orientation, quote, transgenderism or general identity without permission from parents.

3198
03:18:31,640 --> 03:18:34,959
Speaker 1: In Oklahoma, there's a senate bill that would ban public

3199
03:18:35,000 --> 03:18:37,840
Speaker 1: schools from plowing anyone who quote promotes positions in the

3200
03:18:37,920 --> 03:18:41,360
Speaker 1: classroom or any or any function of the public school

3201
03:18:41,680 --> 03:18:44,840
Speaker 1: that is in opposition to the closely held religious beliefs

3202
03:18:44,920 --> 03:18:49,360
Speaker 1: of students. So that's that's interesting framing there. Yeah, and

3203
03:18:49,600 --> 03:18:52,200
Speaker 1: again we need to be very clear about this when like,

3204
03:18:52,520 --> 03:18:55,440
Speaker 1: when these people say deeply have religious beliefs, they mean

3205
03:18:55,480 --> 03:18:59,359
Speaker 1: fundamentalist Christianity. They're they're these people are very specifically attempting

3206
03:18:59,360 --> 03:19:01,400
Speaker 1: to turn these stay into a Christian at those state

3207
03:19:01,760 --> 03:19:03,600
Speaker 1: and this is the ship that they used to do it,

3208
03:19:04,360 --> 03:19:09,680
Speaker 1: And it's yeah, it's it's it's grim. We can look

3209
03:19:09,720 --> 03:19:12,920
Speaker 1: at like a recent report from the Trevor Project UM

3210
03:19:13,040 --> 03:19:17,560
Speaker 1: which is an lgbt Q suicide prevention and crisis internation group,

3211
03:19:18,360 --> 03:19:21,000
Speaker 1: and they did a recent report finding that l g

3212
03:19:21,080 --> 03:19:23,680
Speaker 1: b t Q youth who learn about l g b

3213
03:19:23,800 --> 03:19:26,680
Speaker 1: t Q people or l g b t Q issues

3214
03:19:26,720 --> 03:19:31,320
Speaker 1: in the school have a tent lower odds of reporting

3215
03:19:31,360 --> 03:19:34,640
Speaker 1: a suicide attempt in the past year. So just that

3216
03:19:34,840 --> 03:19:37,840
Speaker 1: like the knowledge that there is an alternative is like,

3217
03:19:38,800 --> 03:19:41,800
Speaker 1: is life changing for people right, the ability to to

3218
03:19:41,959 --> 03:19:45,600
Speaker 1: realize that there are other reality tunnels is can save

3219
03:19:45,720 --> 03:19:48,720
Speaker 1: people's lives, like it is. Yeah, I mean I like

3220
03:19:49,040 --> 03:19:51,400
Speaker 1: I I watched this happen like my my public school,

3221
03:19:51,440 --> 03:19:52,720
Speaker 1: Like I was in a public school, but I was

3222
03:19:52,720 --> 03:19:54,680
Speaker 1: in public school in a really conservative area. The only

3223
03:19:54,760 --> 03:19:58,080
Speaker 1: time anyone even mentioned being gay was screaming about gay marriage,

3224
03:19:58,160 --> 03:20:01,360
Speaker 1: and like we fucking saw some ship, Like a lot

3225
03:20:01,440 --> 03:20:03,680
Speaker 1: of extremely bad things happened to the queer kids. They're

3226
03:20:03,680 --> 03:20:07,240
Speaker 1: including me like it, yeah, like this this stuff kills people.

3227
03:20:07,360 --> 03:20:10,240
Speaker 1: It still hurts people. It is. I think that's that

3228
03:20:11,680 --> 03:20:15,800
Speaker 1: people in like more blue states don't quite understand, is

3229
03:20:15,920 --> 03:20:20,520
Speaker 1: how how absolute this type of thing is, like living

3230
03:20:20,520 --> 03:20:24,880
Speaker 1: in these communities, How how narrow your version of reality is,

3231
03:20:25,040 --> 03:20:27,560
Speaker 1: Like how how everything you're exposed to is so hyper

3232
03:20:27,640 --> 03:20:30,880
Speaker 1: focused that even knowledge of an alternative can be so

3233
03:20:31,440 --> 03:20:35,120
Speaker 1: mind blowing that it really is important to have at

3234
03:20:35,200 --> 03:20:37,320
Speaker 1: least this to be knowledgeable, because yeah, a lot of

3235
03:20:37,360 --> 03:20:39,320
Speaker 1: people who you know, a lot of people may not

3236
03:20:39,400 --> 03:20:40,960
Speaker 1: have access to the internet in the same way. It's

3237
03:20:40,959 --> 03:20:43,879
Speaker 1: like a lot of these groups, especially like especially Christian

3238
03:20:43,920 --> 03:20:47,080
Speaker 1: groups specifically, have like like you know, services that you

3239
03:20:47,160 --> 03:20:51,000
Speaker 1: can buy to like suppress websites on your WiFi, writers,

3240
03:20:51,120 --> 03:20:53,680
Speaker 1: is that only you're only available to access like certain websites.

3241
03:20:53,720 --> 03:20:56,520
Speaker 1: Like like, like it is a whole effort to restrict

3242
03:20:56,600 --> 03:21:00,440
Speaker 1: the reality that kids are exposed to to kind of

3243
03:21:00,680 --> 03:21:07,039
Speaker 1: railroad them into this hyper specific, kind of heteronormative idea

3244
03:21:07,120 --> 03:21:09,960
Speaker 1: of existence. So yeah, any type of thing that breaks

3245
03:21:10,040 --> 03:21:13,160
Speaker 1: these kids out of out of these reality tunnels can

3246
03:21:13,480 --> 03:21:15,240
Speaker 1: can be life changing, which is why they're trying to

3247
03:21:15,280 --> 03:21:17,320
Speaker 1: ban all these books of libraries because yeah, even if

3248
03:21:17,360 --> 03:21:19,640
Speaker 1: you even if you block websites, even if you were

3249
03:21:19,640 --> 03:21:21,680
Speaker 1: strict internet access, even if you were strict what can

3250
03:21:21,720 --> 03:21:23,880
Speaker 1: be taught in schools, you know, there's the fear of

3251
03:21:24,120 --> 03:21:26,000
Speaker 1: what if a kid goes to a library and finds

3252
03:21:26,040 --> 03:21:28,560
Speaker 1: a book about being gay? Then oh wow, that could

3253
03:21:28,760 --> 03:21:30,800
Speaker 1: that would you know, undo all of the effort that

3254
03:21:31,160 --> 03:21:33,680
Speaker 1: undo the thousands of dollars we spend on blocking internet

3255
03:21:33,720 --> 03:21:37,320
Speaker 1: access to two websites. So like that's why they're talking

3256
03:21:37,320 --> 03:21:39,760
Speaker 1: about like libraries and stuff is because yeah, if they

3257
03:21:39,800 --> 03:21:42,280
Speaker 1: find out about this stuff anywhere, then they're going to

3258
03:21:42,360 --> 03:21:44,480
Speaker 1: be in trouble. Like that's that's it's the whole point

3259
03:21:44,560 --> 03:21:47,640
Speaker 1: of like isolating people, isolating what they view as possible.

3260
03:21:48,959 --> 03:21:53,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're not gonna talking about some Uh, we're

3261
03:21:53,080 --> 03:21:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna we're gonna talk money, money, money, money. Uh.

3262
03:21:56,320 --> 03:21:57,840
Speaker 1: The other thing that they don't say. Gay Bill has

3263
03:21:57,920 --> 03:22:01,240
Speaker 1: highlighted is the extent to which Big Illnesses and corporate

3264
03:22:01,280 --> 03:22:04,880
Speaker 1: America is financially funding many of these recent efforts to

3265
03:22:04,959 --> 03:22:08,240
Speaker 1: hack away queer rights. Uh. This has kind of been

3266
03:22:08,280 --> 03:22:10,480
Speaker 1: like a back and forth thing though, especially if you

3267
03:22:10,520 --> 03:22:12,760
Speaker 1: look back in the past few years under the Trump era.

3268
03:22:13,600 --> 03:22:18,560
Speaker 1: Let's take the North Carolina Bathroom Bill for example, arguably

3269
03:22:18,760 --> 03:22:21,720
Speaker 1: the opening act for the current onslaught of socially conservative

3270
03:22:21,879 --> 03:22:25,840
Speaker 1: legislation targeting and trans people. Remember this was like right

3271
03:22:25,879 --> 03:22:28,000
Speaker 1: after the Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage, So this

3272
03:22:28,120 --> 03:22:30,480
Speaker 1: is when the needle starts to shift towards trans people.

3273
03:22:31,160 --> 03:22:32,880
Speaker 1: This is the bill that said that you have to

3274
03:22:33,000 --> 03:22:36,640
Speaker 1: use the bathroom assigned at matching the gender you were

3275
03:22:36,640 --> 03:22:40,640
Speaker 1: assigned at, BURGERSUNI certificate, all types of stuff, um putting again,

3276
03:22:40,800 --> 03:22:44,160
Speaker 1: unspoken bigotry, unspoken stuff. You know, you could be you know,

3277
03:22:44,400 --> 03:22:46,920
Speaker 1: arrested or harassed for doing this previously. But it's like

3278
03:22:47,160 --> 03:22:51,040
Speaker 1: putting this type of idea into concrete law. Right, This

3279
03:22:51,240 --> 03:22:55,120
Speaker 1: is once once progress starts, there's this like back pedaling

3280
03:22:55,280 --> 03:22:56,720
Speaker 1: so that they you know, they put they put that,

3281
03:22:56,800 --> 03:22:59,640
Speaker 1: they put what was once like unspoken bigotry and just

3282
03:22:59,760 --> 03:23:03,760
Speaker 1: like obvious bigotry into actual written law. Um, it's like

3283
03:23:04,080 --> 03:23:08,200
Speaker 1: make making it concrete. So during the bathroom Bill kind

3284
03:23:08,200 --> 03:23:12,680
Speaker 1: of whole thing in North Carolina, UM, we saw corporations

3285
03:23:12,720 --> 03:23:15,960
Speaker 1: trying to stay conscious of culture shifts, attempting to stay

3286
03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:19,120
Speaker 1: on the sympathetic side of the rising generations who would

3287
03:23:19,160 --> 03:23:23,280
Speaker 1: you know, become their future employees and customers, trying to

3288
03:23:23,360 --> 03:23:25,800
Speaker 1: appeal to them and keeping that in mind. So in

3289
03:23:25,840 --> 03:23:28,640
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the passage of the bathroom Bill, multiple

3290
03:23:28,680 --> 03:23:33,880
Speaker 1: companies like PayPal, Adidas, Doutsche Bank um all rescinded plans

3291
03:23:33,959 --> 03:23:37,680
Speaker 1: to invest in the States. Banks wild to like I mean,

3292
03:23:37,760 --> 03:23:40,600
Speaker 1: if there's if there's evil going on, Deutsche Bank is

3293
03:23:40,640 --> 03:23:42,879
Speaker 1: providing money to make it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's

3294
03:23:42,959 --> 03:23:44,920
Speaker 1: it's stunning, Like how bad you have to be that

3295
03:23:45,080 --> 03:23:48,720
Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank is? Like no, I like like every every

3296
03:23:48,800 --> 03:23:53,720
Speaker 1: person who's like Russia yet like like Deutsche Bank, like

3297
03:23:55,120 --> 03:23:58,080
Speaker 1: before like I knew someone who worked there who two

3298
03:23:58,120 --> 03:24:01,200
Speaker 1: of his coworkers like started like doing audits of their

3299
03:24:01,240 --> 03:24:03,000
Speaker 1: accounts and both of them wound up dead in their

3300
03:24:03,000 --> 03:24:08,680
Speaker 1: hotel rooms, non extradition countries. Yeah, that's scans. Yeah, like okay,

3301
03:24:08,720 --> 03:24:11,120
Speaker 1: so yeah, Deutsche Bank initially said they weren't gonna pull

3302
03:24:11,160 --> 03:24:13,720
Speaker 1: out of Russia, but like two days ago, as we record,

3303
03:24:13,800 --> 03:24:17,600
Speaker 1: this started pulling out. But they pulled out in North Carolina.

3304
03:24:17,680 --> 03:24:26,720
Speaker 1: They pulled North Carolina. Jesus Christ, big, big, big. You know,

3305
03:24:26,920 --> 03:24:28,720
Speaker 1: there's a degree to which is probably just like that

3306
03:24:28,879 --> 03:24:31,720
Speaker 1: Raytheon energy where it's like Raytheon, we're great with trans

3307
03:24:31,800 --> 03:24:35,920
Speaker 1: people that you're making missiles, then you're fine exactly. Yeah,

3308
03:24:36,680 --> 03:24:40,280
Speaker 1: I mean big musical artists like Bruce Springsteen, Pearl Jam

3309
03:24:40,640 --> 03:24:43,960
Speaker 1: and a former former R E M member Ringo Star

3310
03:24:44,480 --> 03:24:48,080
Speaker 1: kes Litt concerts. There did you call Ringo Star a

3311
03:24:48,160 --> 03:24:50,960
Speaker 1: member of R E M. Garrison the the n C

3312
03:24:51,080 --> 03:24:56,600
Speaker 1: Double A announced it was that was championship. Okay, okay, okay.

3313
03:24:58,800 --> 03:25:00,600
Speaker 1: If you'd lived through the nine these, you would never

3314
03:25:00,680 --> 03:25:03,760
Speaker 1: make fun of Michael Stipe again. At the National Basketball

3315
03:25:03,800 --> 03:25:08,320
Speaker 1: Association pulled its All Star game from Charlotte, almost seventy

3316
03:25:08,680 --> 03:25:12,640
Speaker 1: companies Joy did a lawsuit against the bill Um and

3317
03:25:12,959 --> 03:25:16,119
Speaker 1: you know, money talks the pressure worked, the state repealed

3318
03:25:16,120 --> 03:25:19,560
Speaker 1: the law in twhen He's seventeen uh. The same year abroad,

3319
03:25:19,560 --> 03:25:22,520
Speaker 1: a coalition of business leaders in Texas blocked a similar

3320
03:25:22,600 --> 03:25:26,680
Speaker 1: bill pushed by these Tonchley conservative then Republican Lieutenant Governor

3321
03:25:26,879 --> 03:25:29,640
Speaker 1: Dan Patrick. UM and we've seen the same type of

3322
03:25:29,680 --> 03:25:32,480
Speaker 1: thing happen in Georgia the past few years. UM with

3323
03:25:33,120 --> 03:25:37,440
Speaker 1: with actions like corporate Boycott's many large employeers pushing back

3324
03:25:37,560 --> 03:25:41,600
Speaker 1: on the succession of socially conservative bills, including like racist

3325
03:25:41,720 --> 03:25:46,200
Speaker 1: voting restrictions, six week abortion bands, and quote religious freedom

3326
03:25:46,280 --> 03:25:49,600
Speaker 1: bills that would give businesses protection to refuse customers or

3327
03:25:49,680 --> 03:25:53,760
Speaker 1: higher employees that are queer. UM. Prominent in that resistance

3328
03:25:54,000 --> 03:25:56,800
Speaker 1: was a Disney, which cast a long shadow over Georgia's

3329
03:25:56,840 --> 03:26:01,840
Speaker 1: economy via its filming of Marvel Movie Inside Atlanta. Yeah

3330
03:26:02,640 --> 03:26:07,320
Speaker 1: so yeah. Across many states, big corporate brands were quick

3331
03:26:07,400 --> 03:26:12,720
Speaker 1: to condemn obviously bigoted political moves. UM. Prominent Tennessee employeers

3332
03:26:12,840 --> 03:26:17,440
Speaker 1: like Nissan, del Amazon, and Vanderbilt University sent a since

3333
03:26:17,520 --> 03:26:20,560
Speaker 1: sent a letter last year opposing a suite of bills

3334
03:26:20,560 --> 03:26:24,840
Speaker 1: targeting lgbt Q rights, and a similarly, a group of

3335
03:26:24,920 --> 03:26:28,920
Speaker 1: Texas businesses business leaders declared opposition to Governor Greg Abbott's

3336
03:26:29,280 --> 03:26:33,520
Speaker 1: recent directive to investigate parents and others who provide transition

3337
03:26:33,600 --> 03:26:38,080
Speaker 1: treatment for for transgender youth. But after Trump got out

3338
03:26:38,120 --> 03:26:40,640
Speaker 1: of office, and particularly during this recent round of a

3339
03:26:40,720 --> 03:26:43,880
Speaker 1: tax on queer rights, companies have not really even backing

3340
03:26:43,920 --> 03:26:49,720
Speaker 1: up their words with any equivalent actions. After Tennessee last year,

3341
03:26:49,800 --> 03:26:53,160
Speaker 1: past all the bills that targeted lgbt Q rights, including

3342
03:26:53,200 --> 03:26:58,320
Speaker 1: measures restricting classroom discussion, UM, barring trans girls from any

3343
03:26:58,400 --> 03:27:01,240
Speaker 1: high school sports, and it's and its own version of

3344
03:27:01,400 --> 03:27:05,200
Speaker 1: the bathroom bill, it faced nothing like the North Carolina boycotts.

3345
03:27:05,840 --> 03:27:07,840
Speaker 1: There was, there was, There was just nothing because this

3346
03:27:07,959 --> 03:27:11,160
Speaker 1: is when Biden was president. Now, um so, whether it

3347
03:27:11,200 --> 03:27:14,400
Speaker 1: be the anti CRT stuff, voting restrictions, or stepping away

3348
03:27:14,520 --> 03:27:17,800
Speaker 1: lgbt Q rights the past year under Joe Biden, companies

3349
03:27:17,840 --> 03:27:19,920
Speaker 1: are not really bothered to push back on these socially

3350
03:27:19,959 --> 03:27:24,840
Speaker 1: conservative bills overtaking many states. It's it's they don't it's

3351
03:27:25,280 --> 03:27:27,160
Speaker 1: it's easier to push back. But it's easier to push

3352
03:27:27,200 --> 03:27:29,920
Speaker 1: back on something when you know when you have a

3353
03:27:30,000 --> 03:27:33,080
Speaker 1: big bad in office. I guess, uh, well, and I

3354
03:27:33,160 --> 03:27:35,160
Speaker 1: think also it's it's the companies can see which way

3355
03:27:35,160 --> 03:27:37,959
Speaker 1: the wind is blowing, right, Yeah, like it's a sat

3356
03:27:38,080 --> 03:27:39,959
Speaker 1: stating with grifters. When you when you when you watch

3357
03:27:40,080 --> 03:27:42,120
Speaker 1: people like when you watch streamers just like someddenly start

3358
03:27:42,160 --> 03:27:43,720
Speaker 1: to flip their political positions. When you when you watch

3359
03:27:43,800 --> 03:27:45,440
Speaker 1: the Love the live streamers in particularly do this when

3360
03:27:45,440 --> 03:27:46,960
Speaker 1: you watch them starting to flip that that's how you

3361
03:27:47,000 --> 03:27:48,480
Speaker 1: can tell which way the wind is blowing. And this

3362
03:27:48,640 --> 03:27:52,520
Speaker 1: is really fucking scary because you know the way the

3363
03:27:52,560 --> 03:27:55,160
Speaker 1: wind is blowing right now, that that these corporations are

3364
03:27:55,320 --> 03:27:59,240
Speaker 1: are are you know, drifting towards is just you know,

3365
03:27:59,320 --> 03:28:04,640
Speaker 1: and refusing to oppose is just this exterminationism. Yeah. I

3366
03:28:04,680 --> 03:28:11,120
Speaker 1: mean thankfully Disney got you know, shouted to like we're

3367
03:28:11,160 --> 03:28:16,320
Speaker 1: going to talk about so creators of the movie Song

3368
03:28:16,400 --> 03:28:21,080
Speaker 1: of the South. UM was notable that in their refusal

3369
03:28:21,160 --> 03:28:24,240
Speaker 1: to criticize the bill as it moved through the legislature

3370
03:28:24,640 --> 03:28:29,520
Speaker 1: under um the kind of recent stuff inside Florida specifically, so,

3371
03:28:30,360 --> 03:28:32,360
Speaker 1: but this was part of an overall pattern, Like the

3372
03:28:32,720 --> 03:28:35,080
Speaker 1: corporate response was was much more muted to they go

3373
03:28:35,200 --> 03:28:38,440
Speaker 1: to they don't say gay bill um in Florida compared

3374
03:28:38,480 --> 03:28:41,000
Speaker 1: to other stuff across across the country. Even UM, and

3375
03:28:41,040 --> 03:28:45,880
Speaker 1: it shouldn't really surprise anybody many of the Republican backers

3376
03:28:46,000 --> 03:28:48,360
Speaker 1: of the bill in Florida are actually bankrolled by the

3377
03:28:48,480 --> 03:28:51,680
Speaker 1: very same businesses that have done performative virtue signally boycott's

3378
03:28:51,760 --> 03:28:55,680
Speaker 1: and protests under the troumpb era. Uh. Disney and Disney

3379
03:28:55,720 --> 03:28:58,920
Speaker 1: World in Orlando is one of the state's biggest employers

3380
03:28:59,000 --> 03:29:01,520
Speaker 1: and and in a normal of s economic force inside Florida.

3381
03:29:02,240 --> 03:29:06,279
Speaker 1: And when disney silence was met with pushback, Bob Chapeck,

3382
03:29:06,440 --> 03:29:11,600
Speaker 1: the CEO, try to kind of do damage control at

3383
03:29:11,640 --> 03:29:15,119
Speaker 1: first like internally within the company and then for outside press.

3384
03:29:15,800 --> 03:29:21,720
Speaker 1: UM last Monday, I think, which was the seventh UM

3385
03:29:22,640 --> 03:29:25,760
Speaker 1: in a in a in a memo to Disney staff,

3386
03:29:26,520 --> 03:29:29,959
Speaker 1: Chapek argue that the company can do more to promote

3387
03:29:30,080 --> 03:29:33,800
Speaker 1: tolerance quote through the inspiring content we produce and the

3388
03:29:33,879 --> 03:29:38,120
Speaker 1: welcoming culture we create and the diverse community of organizations

3389
03:29:38,200 --> 03:29:40,720
Speaker 1: we support UM, which just funny if you know anything

3390
03:29:40,760 --> 03:29:43,800
Speaker 1: about the history of Disney. UM also saying that the

3391
03:29:43,879 --> 03:29:46,840
Speaker 1: messages in their movies are more powerful than any law

3392
03:29:46,959 --> 03:29:52,640
Speaker 1: being effort, which is uh yeah, which is also you know,

3393
03:29:52,879 --> 03:29:56,160
Speaker 1: great coming from the company most famous for queer coding

3394
03:29:56,240 --> 03:30:03,920
Speaker 1: almost all of their films, so sure, sure, bob um.

3395
03:30:04,920 --> 03:30:07,880
Speaker 1: Two days later, UM, at a shareholder meeting, was a

3396
03:30:07,920 --> 03:30:11,680
Speaker 1: little more open and told told shareholders that the company

3397
03:30:11,760 --> 03:30:15,600
Speaker 1: had privately opposed to the bill. Um, and we'll trying

3398
03:30:15,640 --> 03:30:19,480
Speaker 1: to explain why the silence in the recent legislative efforts

3399
03:30:19,520 --> 03:30:23,840
Speaker 1: to attack lgbt P LGBTQ people. He said that we

3400
03:30:24,000 --> 03:30:25,760
Speaker 1: chose not to take a public position on the bill

3401
03:30:25,800 --> 03:30:27,680
Speaker 1: because we felt like we could be more effective working

3402
03:30:27,760 --> 03:30:30,920
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, engaging directly with lawmakers on both sides

3403
03:30:30,959 --> 03:30:34,600
Speaker 1: of the aisle. But it uh. It later came out

3404
03:30:34,879 --> 03:30:37,960
Speaker 1: that Speck had only reached out to Florida Governor Randa

3405
03:30:38,040 --> 03:30:41,320
Speaker 1: Centers just that morning, after the bill had already had

3406
03:30:41,320 --> 03:30:44,760
Speaker 1: already passed. Yeah, we we need that cat from Saga

3407
03:30:44,840 --> 03:30:49,080
Speaker 1: that just yells lies. Yes, lying cats my favorite. UM

3408
03:30:49,720 --> 03:30:54,840
Speaker 1: definitely appreciate lying cat lying. Uh. Yeah. So, of course

3409
03:30:54,920 --> 03:30:57,720
Speaker 1: none of this satisfied anybody, um, and there's been increasing

3410
03:30:57,920 --> 03:31:01,920
Speaker 1: pushback from both within the Disney Company and outside um Uh.

3411
03:31:02,120 --> 03:31:05,840
Speaker 1: Pixar sent a letter to CHPEC criticizing his wishy washy

3412
03:31:06,040 --> 03:31:08,720
Speaker 1: stance on the on the on the don't Say Gay bill,

3413
03:31:09,120 --> 03:31:11,160
Speaker 1: and even goes on even goes on to goes on

3414
03:31:11,240 --> 03:31:15,240
Speaker 1: to criticize the corporation for capitalizing on pride through like

3415
03:31:15,400 --> 03:31:20,240
Speaker 1: a through rainbow mickey merchandizing and stuff, uh, saying, quote,

3416
03:31:20,240 --> 03:31:22,040
Speaker 1: it feels terrible to be part of a company that

3417
03:31:22,120 --> 03:31:24,440
Speaker 1: makes money from pride merch when it when it chooses

3418
03:31:24,440 --> 03:31:26,760
Speaker 1: to step back in times of our greatest need and

3419
03:31:26,920 --> 03:31:30,280
Speaker 1: when our rights are at risk, says the Pixar letter.

3420
03:31:30,680 --> 03:31:35,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, after after after, if you did after the

3421
03:31:35,120 --> 03:31:38,760
Speaker 1: shareholder meeting, Jpeck said, third times the charm and try

3422
03:31:38,800 --> 03:31:42,160
Speaker 1: again to save face, announcing the company would immediately begin

3423
03:31:42,240 --> 03:31:46,640
Speaker 1: supporting efforts to combat similar legislation in other states and

3424
03:31:46,760 --> 03:31:49,880
Speaker 1: would pause all political donations in the state pending a

3425
03:31:49,920 --> 03:31:54,000
Speaker 1: review of the company's political giving. Um conceding that the

3426
03:31:54,040 --> 03:31:56,440
Speaker 1: company failed to be a stronger ally in the fight

3427
03:31:56,520 --> 03:31:59,120
Speaker 1: for equal rights. And all that is well and good

3428
03:31:59,280 --> 03:32:01,160
Speaker 1: if you ignore the fact that in the past two

3429
03:32:01,200 --> 03:32:05,439
Speaker 1: years alone, Disney has given three thousand dollars to politicians

3430
03:32:05,480 --> 03:32:07,680
Speaker 1: in Florida who voted for they Don't Say Gay Bill.

3431
03:32:08,400 --> 03:32:12,280
Speaker 1: Um Disney entities donated at least four thousand dollars in

3432
03:32:12,360 --> 03:32:17,120
Speaker 1: the re election campaigns for the bill's chief sponsors a

3433
03:32:17,200 --> 03:32:22,000
Speaker 1: state representative Joe Harding and state sponsor Dennis Baxley. UM

3434
03:32:22,080 --> 03:32:25,520
Speaker 1: and Disney entities also donated fifty dollars to political action

3435
03:32:25,600 --> 03:32:30,440
Speaker 1: committee tied to the governor, Rhonda Santa's one just last year.

3436
03:32:31,320 --> 03:32:34,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a that's a lot of money. Yeah,

3437
03:32:34,600 --> 03:32:36,960
Speaker 1: and I think I think it's worth like noting for

3438
03:32:37,120 --> 03:32:41,560
Speaker 1: people who like are somewhat younger, which is that like

3439
03:32:41,640 --> 03:32:44,160
Speaker 1: there's a whole thing where corporations pretend that they like

3440
03:32:44,520 --> 03:32:47,040
Speaker 1: queer people now and this is the thing that has

3441
03:32:47,080 --> 03:32:51,000
Speaker 1: existed for maybe a decade and the other several hundred

3442
03:32:51,080 --> 03:32:55,560
Speaker 1: years of capitalism are them like ruthless lee crushing queer

3443
03:32:55,640 --> 03:32:59,280
Speaker 1: people of all kinds. So yeah, this is this is

3444
03:32:59,320 --> 03:33:02,120
Speaker 1: their normal date. Queer capitalism is like not a thing.

3445
03:33:02,240 --> 03:33:04,240
Speaker 1: It's a it's a thing that exists solely to sell

3446
03:33:04,280 --> 03:33:09,200
Speaker 1: you sweatshirts. It's not a thing get that rainbow Mickey merchandise. Yeah,

3447
03:33:09,320 --> 03:33:12,680
Speaker 1: they want they are actively okay with funding people who

3448
03:33:12,680 --> 03:33:15,400
Speaker 1: want to kill you. So so as as I as

3449
03:33:15,480 --> 03:33:18,080
Speaker 1: I was writing this, UM last week tonight the show

3450
03:33:18,200 --> 03:33:22,400
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Oliver came out with a small piece that

3451
03:33:22,520 --> 03:33:26,200
Speaker 1: was covering similar ground, uh to to my writing. That

3452
03:33:26,320 --> 03:33:30,480
Speaker 1: also included some nice, nice, nice background on Disney sponsored

3453
03:33:30,520 --> 03:33:32,760
Speaker 1: politician and lead sponsor. If they don't say gay bill

3454
03:33:32,800 --> 03:33:37,440
Speaker 1: that Dennis Baxley. Um, so yeah, apparently Baxley has said

3455
03:33:37,520 --> 03:33:42,359
Speaker 1: that quote abortion is causing Europeans to be replaced by immigrants.

3456
03:33:43,000 --> 03:33:46,880
Speaker 1: Disney's going back to its Nazi roots, nice little white replacement.

3457
03:33:46,959 --> 03:33:51,400
Speaker 1: Lie um inwent He worked on bills to repeal protections

3458
03:33:51,480 --> 03:33:55,360
Speaker 1: for queer workers and worked to relegalize gay conversion therapy

3459
03:33:56,000 --> 03:33:59,600
Speaker 1: um and teen. At some kind of fundraising event, he

3460
03:33:59,720 --> 03:34:02,320
Speaker 1: said that quote, I know some districts where there's a

3461
03:34:02,360 --> 03:34:07,720
Speaker 1: big infestation of homosexuals that are pushing their agenda under

3462
03:34:07,760 --> 03:34:10,520
Speaker 1: the screen and then trying to get more people hired

3463
03:34:10,600 --> 03:34:12,920
Speaker 1: like them instead up gated options and all this stuff.

3464
03:34:13,200 --> 03:34:15,520
Speaker 1: It's a continual fight for the values that we hold,

3465
03:34:15,600 --> 03:34:19,120
Speaker 1: dear boy, brought to you, brought to you by Disney.

3466
03:34:20,280 --> 03:34:26,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, ticket infestation. Yeah, it's a yeah take take

3467
03:34:27,120 --> 03:34:30,520
Speaker 1: take none of the infestation there. Um. That kind of

3468
03:34:30,560 --> 03:34:33,600
Speaker 1: ties into my whole, my whole like viewing, you know,

3469
03:34:33,760 --> 03:34:37,360
Speaker 1: queerness as a contagion kind of idea, well, which I

3470
03:34:37,440 --> 03:34:41,000
Speaker 1: mean viewing the enemy is a contagion is also older

3471
03:34:41,040 --> 03:34:43,240
Speaker 1: than just viewing queer people as a contagion, because it's

3472
03:34:43,240 --> 03:34:45,360
Speaker 1: exactly how Hitler talked about the Jews, and you know,

3473
03:34:45,480 --> 03:34:46,880
Speaker 1: it goes. We can look at like some of the

3474
03:34:46,959 --> 03:34:49,880
Speaker 1: things the Turks would say about Armenians. It's this idea

3475
03:34:50,120 --> 03:34:53,280
Speaker 1: of you know, you, there's no there's no middle ground

3476
03:34:53,400 --> 03:34:56,040
Speaker 1: with a virus, and if you turn people into a virus,

3477
03:34:56,120 --> 03:35:00,400
Speaker 1: then you don't have to consider a middle ground. Um.

3478
03:35:01,080 --> 03:35:03,199
Speaker 1: So before we go and break, I'm gonna I'm gonna

3479
03:35:03,240 --> 03:35:05,520
Speaker 1: do one more. I'm gonna do a quote from an

3480
03:35:05,600 --> 03:35:09,880
Speaker 1: article in The Atlantic, um titled want to understand the

3481
03:35:09,959 --> 03:35:13,440
Speaker 1: Red State onslaught look at Florida. Um, it's a it's

3482
03:35:13,480 --> 03:35:15,800
Speaker 1: a it's a deccent article kind of going through the

3483
03:35:15,879 --> 03:35:20,040
Speaker 1: financial stuff that Disney has kind of backed. Um. But yeah, quote,

3484
03:35:20,400 --> 03:35:23,680
Speaker 1: why have so many companies backed away from these fights? Um,

3485
03:35:23,800 --> 03:35:28,000
Speaker 1: the fights against the group legislation. Some corporate lobbyists I

3486
03:35:28,080 --> 03:35:30,119
Speaker 1: spoke with said that one reason is that they believe

3487
03:35:30,200 --> 03:35:35,080
Speaker 1: the public opposition is counterproductive because more Republican elected officials

3488
03:35:35,120 --> 03:35:37,920
Speaker 1: in the Donald Trump era find it politically valuable to

3489
03:35:38,000 --> 03:35:42,199
Speaker 1: be seen as fighting big companies. Businesses also frequently complained

3490
03:35:42,280 --> 03:35:46,120
Speaker 1: that the widening gulf between the parties leaves them in

3491
03:35:46,200 --> 03:35:49,720
Speaker 1: a lose lose position of alienating an important block of

3492
03:35:49,760 --> 03:35:54,360
Speaker 1: potential customers wherever they come down on policy debates. UM

3493
03:35:54,400 --> 03:35:56,760
Speaker 1: activists the point out that business is often try to

3494
03:35:56,840 --> 03:36:01,600
Speaker 1: have both ways by rhetorically identifying causes such as inclusion

3495
03:36:01,640 --> 03:36:04,959
Speaker 1: and diversity without taking any tangible steps to defend them.

3496
03:36:05,520 --> 03:36:09,280
Speaker 1: Another factor probably looms larger than any of these considerations.

3497
03:36:10,440 --> 03:36:12,920
Speaker 1: However much they want to publicly align with the values

3498
03:36:13,000 --> 03:36:17,200
Speaker 1: of younger customers and consumers and workers, big companies want

3499
03:36:17,240 --> 03:36:20,440
Speaker 1: to only want to go only so far in fighting

3500
03:36:20,480 --> 03:36:23,960
Speaker 1: these proposals because they still mostly prefer Republicans and control

3501
03:36:24,000 --> 03:36:27,640
Speaker 1: state governments to deliver the low tax like regulation policies

3502
03:36:27,680 --> 03:36:31,000
Speaker 1: that they favor. State Republicans have, in turn, have grown

3503
03:36:31,080 --> 03:36:34,720
Speaker 1: more overt about threatening those beliefs when business leaders raise

3504
03:36:34,760 --> 03:36:38,440
Speaker 1: objections to the cultural war components of their agenda. When

3505
03:36:38,480 --> 03:36:42,480
Speaker 1: American Airlines criticized the restrictive voting bill in Texas past

3506
03:36:42,600 --> 03:36:46,560
Speaker 1: last year, Lieutenant Governor Patrick openly threatened to kill other

3507
03:36:46,720 --> 03:36:51,080
Speaker 1: legislation the company had cared about. So yeah, like, obviously,

3508
03:36:51,240 --> 03:36:54,039
Speaker 1: companies want Republicans to be in charge because it will

3509
03:36:54,120 --> 03:36:58,080
Speaker 1: make it easier to run their big giant corporate businesses

3510
03:36:58,200 --> 03:37:01,520
Speaker 1: that basically are as powerful a lot of a lot

3511
03:37:01,560 --> 03:37:05,080
Speaker 1: of other like government entities. Uh so, yeah, they're gonna

3512
03:37:05,120 --> 03:37:10,720
Speaker 1: spend supporting Rhonda Santis. They're gonna spends in the past

3513
03:37:11,160 --> 03:37:13,879
Speaker 1: the past two years, was supporting all these Republican candidates

3514
03:37:13,920 --> 03:37:16,240
Speaker 1: that voted for for they don't say, gay bill, because

3515
03:37:16,320 --> 03:37:20,120
Speaker 1: that makes them more profit in the long run. And

3516
03:37:20,200 --> 03:37:22,440
Speaker 1: that's you know, if you're if you're running a business,

3517
03:37:23,120 --> 03:37:26,880
Speaker 1: that's what they want. So yep, that is Uh, I'm

3518
03:37:26,920 --> 03:37:28,920
Speaker 1: gonna we're We're gonna take another ad break and then

3519
03:37:29,000 --> 03:37:32,480
Speaker 1: we will we will come back to talk about Texas

3520
03:37:32,640 --> 03:37:36,160
Speaker 1: and and and bathroom bills and healthcare and all of

3521
03:37:36,280 --> 03:37:43,280
Speaker 1: the other kind of stuff that's happened in recent weeks. Hot. Yeah, hello,

3522
03:37:43,440 --> 03:37:45,600
Speaker 1: we are back. Sorry, I was, I was taking some

3523
03:37:45,680 --> 03:37:49,080
Speaker 1: time to listen to my favorite Ringo Star RM album

3524
03:37:49,520 --> 03:37:52,920
Speaker 1: in the break in between reading books by It's a

3525
03:37:52,959 --> 03:37:56,080
Speaker 1: really good combo of the media. How how dare you

3526
03:37:56,200 --> 03:38:01,480
Speaker 1: not the not properly appreciating Michael Stipe, the voice of

3527
03:38:01,840 --> 03:38:09,440
Speaker 1: several generations Michael Stiper Michael Stipe, Yeah, so he was,

3528
03:38:10,640 --> 03:38:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I I really like the Black Keys.

3529
03:38:14,440 --> 03:38:18,879
Speaker 1: So anyway, UM, I'm gonna make more bad music jokes

3530
03:38:19,160 --> 03:38:23,440
Speaker 1: or I could continue my script. Yeah, please continue. We

3531
03:38:23,480 --> 03:38:25,920
Speaker 1: don't have to talk about all of the wonderful contributions

3532
03:38:25,959 --> 03:38:29,240
Speaker 1: your generation is made to music like uh, like you

3533
03:38:29,440 --> 03:38:33,240
Speaker 1: two with Hits, like you two, famed Zoomer bands, you

3534
03:38:33,440 --> 03:38:38,920
Speaker 1: two with Hitman George Harrison. M Yep, You're gonna make

3535
03:38:38,959 --> 03:38:40,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people happy, Garrison, A lot of people

3536
03:38:40,879 --> 03:38:43,680
Speaker 1: real happy at least everyone. States have introduced bills that

3537
03:38:43,720 --> 03:38:47,640
Speaker 1: would band trans athletes from competing in sports that correspond

3538
03:38:47,680 --> 03:38:51,960
Speaker 1: to their gender identities UM. Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee have already

3539
03:38:52,000 --> 03:38:55,600
Speaker 1: signed such bills into law. At the start of this year,

3540
03:38:55,920 --> 03:38:58,360
Speaker 1: new restructions were put into place for for in in

3541
03:38:58,480 --> 03:39:03,640
Speaker 1: Texas to also restrict UM what K through twelve school

3542
03:39:03,680 --> 03:39:07,560
Speaker 1: sports people can be on now, making them specifically match

3543
03:39:08,080 --> 03:39:10,400
Speaker 1: they're sex listed on their birth certificate at or near

3544
03:39:10,440 --> 03:39:13,240
Speaker 1: time of birth. UM and even when the states who

3545
03:39:13,360 --> 03:39:16,600
Speaker 1: don't just have blanket bands. There's other horrifying things happening

3546
03:39:17,320 --> 03:39:20,160
Speaker 1: UH like. In the beginning of last February, it came

3547
03:39:20,200 --> 03:39:23,840
Speaker 1: out that the Utah Republicans are making UH and have

3548
03:39:23,959 --> 03:39:27,640
Speaker 1: proposed a commission to analyze the bodies of trans kids

3549
03:39:28,480 --> 03:39:31,760
Speaker 1: that would determine student athletes eligibility on a case by

3550
03:39:31,800 --> 03:39:35,600
Speaker 1: case basis, with having the authority to establish a baseline

3551
03:39:35,680 --> 03:39:40,640
Speaker 1: range for fiscal characteristics affected by puberty, banning schools school

3552
03:39:40,800 --> 03:39:43,560
Speaker 1: school athletes who do not fall within these established limits

3553
03:39:44,040 --> 03:39:48,440
Speaker 1: from participating in generate sports. Um. Also a non fun

3554
03:39:48,720 --> 03:39:51,200
Speaker 1: fun side side but about the bill is that in

3555
03:39:51,360 --> 03:39:55,160
Speaker 1: their efforts to analyze the bodies of trans kids, the

3556
03:39:55,200 --> 03:39:58,000
Speaker 1: bill would also remember the commission immune from any lawsuit

3557
03:39:58,120 --> 03:40:00,520
Speaker 1: with respect to all acts done and a has taken

3558
03:40:00,560 --> 03:40:03,879
Speaker 1: in good faith and carrying out their purposes. Um. Yeah,

3559
03:40:03,920 --> 03:40:05,400
Speaker 1: And this is this is something that I think is

3560
03:40:05,680 --> 03:40:10,600
Speaker 1: really common specifically with transphobia, which is that like all

3561
03:40:10,680 --> 03:40:13,960
Speaker 1: of the rhetoric about transphobia is about sort of like

3562
03:40:14,520 --> 03:40:16,840
Speaker 1: like a huge amount of it's about molestation. Here's about

3563
03:40:17,080 --> 03:40:20,240
Speaker 1: amount amount of it's about pedophilia. And then I mean,

3564
03:40:20,320 --> 03:40:22,440
Speaker 1: specifically with the molestation part, it's like, yeah, Okay, so

3565
03:40:22,480 --> 03:40:24,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna have this council, right, We're gonna have we're

3566
03:40:24,920 --> 03:40:27,040
Speaker 1: gonna have this commission, and these people are gonna they're

3567
03:40:27,040 --> 03:40:29,280
Speaker 1: they're going to just like they're going to molest these kids. Right,

3568
03:40:29,840 --> 03:40:31,520
Speaker 1: but like this, this is just something that happened to

3569
03:40:31,520 --> 03:40:34,680
Speaker 1: transpeople constant, like the t s A like constantly. It's

3570
03:40:34,720 --> 03:40:38,600
Speaker 1: just an enormous engine for just like like sexually abusing

3571
03:40:38,680 --> 03:40:41,560
Speaker 1: every single trans person who goes who goes into an airport,

3572
03:40:41,920 --> 03:40:44,480
Speaker 1: Like I've definitely had not fun experiences at the airport

3573
03:40:44,560 --> 03:40:47,200
Speaker 1: the past few times. Like this is this is the

3574
03:40:47,240 --> 03:40:53,039
Speaker 1: thing is It's like it's it's they they impose as

3575
03:40:53,120 --> 03:40:56,000
Speaker 1: a sanction on trans people, the things that they claim

3576
03:40:56,040 --> 03:40:59,520
Speaker 1: trans people are doing. Yes, and it's it is. And

3577
03:40:59,600 --> 03:41:02,039
Speaker 1: it's also so interesting you'll find how many of these

3578
03:41:02,280 --> 03:41:06,680
Speaker 1: kind of bill sponsors politicians um eventually have it come

3579
03:41:06,720 --> 03:41:09,119
Speaker 1: out that like they watch a lot of like trans

3580
03:41:09,240 --> 03:41:12,400
Speaker 1: pornography and stuff. It's like it's it's all it's all fake,

3581
03:41:12,520 --> 03:41:15,000
Speaker 1: like all like everything, like everything they say they don't

3582
03:41:15,040 --> 03:41:17,080
Speaker 1: actually mean. It's all about the culture war, it's all

3583
03:41:17,080 --> 03:41:19,879
Speaker 1: about all the fucking like save the children's stuff. It's

3584
03:41:19,879 --> 03:41:23,280
Speaker 1: all in opposite that they can get elected into politics. Right, Well,

3585
03:41:23,320 --> 03:41:24,680
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this with like that with like the

3586
03:41:25,000 --> 03:41:27,760
Speaker 1: with the Texas thing, how all of the big New

3587
03:41:27,800 --> 03:41:30,959
Speaker 1: Texas stuff happened like days before the primary election because

3588
03:41:31,000 --> 03:41:33,960
Speaker 1: they were being challenged by by by other politicians that

3589
03:41:34,000 --> 03:41:36,720
Speaker 1: were farther to the right of them. So it's all

3590
03:41:36,760 --> 03:41:39,600
Speaker 1: like a political ploy. But the problem is is that

3591
03:41:39,760 --> 03:41:43,360
Speaker 1: at certain points, because of how long the culture war

3592
03:41:43,480 --> 03:41:46,400
Speaker 1: kind of idea has been going, there's people who you know,

3593
03:41:46,520 --> 03:41:49,200
Speaker 1: sincerely bought into the idea of the of the culture

3594
03:41:49,200 --> 03:41:53,520
Speaker 1: war now themselves running for office. Um, so like it

3595
03:41:53,680 --> 03:41:55,880
Speaker 1: is like they do actually genuinely believe the things now

3596
03:41:56,240 --> 03:41:57,600
Speaker 1: it is it is like it is like a full

3597
03:41:57,640 --> 03:42:00,120
Speaker 1: circle thing of things that were just you know, just

3598
03:42:00,280 --> 03:42:03,680
Speaker 1: to get votes initially, like things that weren't really believe sincerely,

3599
03:42:03,879 --> 03:42:07,800
Speaker 1: just just to wold votes. But now people who were

3600
03:42:07,840 --> 03:42:11,400
Speaker 1: brought up in that whole political idea are starting to

3601
03:42:11,480 --> 03:42:13,440
Speaker 1: run for office who do actually believe those in those

3602
03:42:13,440 --> 03:42:16,440
Speaker 1: things that sincerely So now it's it's leading its leading

3603
03:42:16,480 --> 03:42:18,280
Speaker 1: to a whole new kind of onslot of rights because

3604
03:42:18,320 --> 03:42:21,600
Speaker 1: these people have just escalated and accelerated the whole cultural

3605
03:42:21,680 --> 03:42:23,400
Speaker 1: or idea. Yeah. Well, and and the other thing is

3606
03:42:23,440 --> 03:42:26,720
Speaker 1: like they've linked up with people who like people whose

3607
03:42:26,720 --> 03:42:29,120
Speaker 1: politics is at the church or people whose politics have

3608
03:42:29,320 --> 03:42:32,840
Speaker 1: specifically been about eliminated trans people for like half a century, right,

3609
03:42:32,879 --> 03:42:36,880
Speaker 1: like there, there's there's the linkages that are being formed

3610
03:42:37,000 --> 03:42:41,000
Speaker 1: between people who have sort of like you know, between

3611
03:42:41,080 --> 03:42:47,320
Speaker 1: these militantly anti trans organizations, in between sort of these

3612
03:42:47,360 --> 03:42:50,720
Speaker 1: people who buy into this, like either who are very

3613
03:42:50,720 --> 03:42:52,880
Speaker 1: who who are cynically deploying the sort of the sort

3614
03:42:52,920 --> 03:42:55,720
Speaker 1: of Christian supremacist rhetoric, or the people who are just

3615
03:42:55,840 --> 03:43:02,080
Speaker 1: actual like Christian fascists. Right, Like, these people like these

3616
03:43:02,120 --> 03:43:03,879
Speaker 1: people are going together to the point where it doesn't

3617
03:43:03,920 --> 03:43:07,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter why they're doing it. Okay, at

3618
03:43:07,360 --> 03:43:10,240
Speaker 1: certain points, like the reason why specifically they're doing it

3619
03:43:10,280 --> 03:43:14,920
Speaker 1: becomes immaterial and you're just sort of left with the

3620
03:43:15,040 --> 03:43:20,320
Speaker 1: things that they are doing. Yeah, it's I mean, and

3621
03:43:20,560 --> 03:43:22,600
Speaker 1: there's has just been so much of it the past

3622
03:43:22,840 --> 03:43:26,920
Speaker 1: the past year specifically like over like overall, more than

3623
03:43:27,000 --> 03:43:29,920
Speaker 1: one hundred bills designed to restrict the rights of transgender

3624
03:43:30,000 --> 03:43:32,520
Speaker 1: of transgender people have been introduced in at least thirty

3625
03:43:32,560 --> 03:43:36,200
Speaker 1: three states. It justin just one, which is like it's

3626
03:43:36,240 --> 03:43:38,320
Speaker 1: become a record breaking here for any kind of anti

3627
03:43:38,360 --> 03:43:41,040
Speaker 1: trans legislation. It's just it is accelerated to such a

3628
03:43:41,920 --> 03:43:46,560
Speaker 1: extreme degree um and now continuing in two legislative cycle

3629
03:43:47,120 --> 03:43:52,080
Speaker 1: um last spring in in in in Arkansas, the state

3630
03:43:52,400 --> 03:43:55,600
Speaker 1: legislator banned gender of her main care for minors UM,

3631
03:43:55,720 --> 03:43:59,120
Speaker 1: including you know, puberty blockers HRT, all the stuff you

3632
03:43:59,200 --> 03:44:03,440
Speaker 1: know UM. And the House Bill one five seven oh

3633
03:44:03,879 --> 03:44:09,240
Speaker 1: prevents transpeople from receiving hormotherapy, puberty blockers, similar treatments. UM.

3634
03:44:09,360 --> 03:44:13,960
Speaker 1: It was called the Save Adolescence from Experimentation Act UM,

3635
03:44:14,120 --> 03:44:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, referring to medical treatment as experimentation UM. And

3636
03:44:19,360 --> 03:44:23,720
Speaker 1: shortly after the bill was signed into law, UM, the

3637
03:44:24,160 --> 03:44:26,959
Speaker 1: doctors who run the largest or who ran the largest

3638
03:44:27,240 --> 03:44:30,960
Speaker 1: provider of of hormone therapy and the state reported an

3639
03:44:30,959 --> 03:44:34,120
Speaker 1: increase in suicid attempts in their patients during like just

3640
03:44:34,360 --> 03:44:37,720
Speaker 1: that same month. UM. It was it was the first

3641
03:44:37,760 --> 03:44:40,080
Speaker 1: of its kind of bill signed into law, and it

3642
03:44:40,160 --> 03:44:42,760
Speaker 1: was it was initially vetoed by the governor, but then

3643
03:44:42,800 --> 03:44:46,720
Speaker 1: that veto was overturned by the state legislator. So and

3644
03:44:46,840 --> 03:44:50,120
Speaker 1: that kind of similar laws have been have been happening

3645
03:44:50,200 --> 03:44:53,640
Speaker 1: in states ever since then. We're not gonna talk about Texas, UM,

3646
03:44:54,440 --> 03:44:57,760
Speaker 1: because that's one of the one of the biggest, one

3647
03:44:57,760 --> 03:44:59,480
Speaker 1: of the biggest kind of things in this whole fight

3648
03:44:59,600 --> 03:45:03,640
Speaker 1: is the stuff around Texas. So Texas officials have begun

3649
03:45:03,720 --> 03:45:08,760
Speaker 1: investigating parents of transgender adolescence for possible child abuse, according

3650
03:45:08,800 --> 03:45:12,480
Speaker 1: to a lawsuit filed on a few a few weeks ago,

3651
03:45:13,160 --> 03:45:17,359
Speaker 1: after Governor Greg Abbott directed UH the the Child Protective

3652
03:45:17,400 --> 03:45:21,440
Speaker 1: Services Agency in Texas, to handle certain medical treatments, including

3653
03:45:21,760 --> 03:45:25,960
Speaker 1: puberty blockers and h RT, as possible crimes. The directive

3654
03:45:26,040 --> 03:45:29,560
Speaker 1: from Governor Abbott was following a non binding opinion by

3655
03:45:29,640 --> 03:45:33,920
Speaker 1: Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton UM saying that parents who

3656
03:45:33,959 --> 03:45:38,920
Speaker 1: provide their transgender teenagers with doctor prescribed a care could

3657
03:45:38,920 --> 03:45:43,760
Speaker 1: be investigated for child abuse. So the moves by both

3658
03:45:43,879 --> 03:45:49,240
Speaker 1: Abbott and Paxton tried to Republican UH incumbents came just

3659
03:45:49,400 --> 03:45:52,520
Speaker 1: days before the primary election UM in which each of

3660
03:45:52,560 --> 03:45:57,920
Speaker 1: them faced significant challenges from farther right opponents. UM. So

3661
03:45:58,120 --> 03:46:03,279
Speaker 1: they've both fad they've faced criticis them from not being staunch,

3662
03:46:03,800 --> 03:46:06,960
Speaker 1: staunchly anti trans enough in the past, like in the

3663
03:46:07,040 --> 03:46:10,879
Speaker 1: months prior to this, and they did this to hopefully,

3664
03:46:11,000 --> 03:46:14,760
Speaker 1: you know, gain support from the more radical UH, more

3665
03:46:14,879 --> 03:46:17,880
Speaker 1: radical voters in Texas. That's like, that is that is

3666
03:46:17,959 --> 03:46:20,520
Speaker 1: undoubtedly a big, a big, big part of why this

3667
03:46:20,640 --> 03:46:23,760
Speaker 1: happened at the time that it did. They did the

3668
03:46:23,800 --> 03:46:28,680
Speaker 1: same thing both Paxiston, well, let's Paxton, but Abbott did

3669
03:46:28,720 --> 03:46:31,720
Speaker 1: basically the same thing with like masks in the last

3670
03:46:32,040 --> 03:46:33,840
Speaker 1: year two where it's like yeah, you know, I mean

3671
03:46:33,920 --> 03:46:36,160
Speaker 1: it's it's great because the people are just they will

3672
03:46:36,240 --> 03:46:40,000
Speaker 1: literally kill thousands of people in or just hold onto

3673
03:46:40,040 --> 03:46:43,720
Speaker 1: their power and it's among to be. The first people

3674
03:46:43,760 --> 03:46:48,600
Speaker 1: investigated for child abuse was actually an employee by the

3675
03:46:48,720 --> 03:46:52,360
Speaker 1: States Protective Services Agency who had a sixteen year old

3676
03:46:52,480 --> 03:46:55,480
Speaker 1: transgender child. On March one, the A c l U

3677
03:46:55,640 --> 03:47:01,520
Speaker 1: of Texas and Lambda Lambda Legal great great name went

3678
03:47:01,600 --> 03:47:04,000
Speaker 1: to state court in Austin to try to stop this

3679
03:47:04,120 --> 03:47:07,640
Speaker 1: inquiry into this family. Who again, who who worked for?

3680
03:47:08,120 --> 03:47:13,080
Speaker 1: Who worked for the Child Protective Services Agency UM. The employee,

3681
03:47:13,080 --> 03:47:15,560
Speaker 1: who was not named in the court filing works on

3682
03:47:15,760 --> 03:47:19,520
Speaker 1: reviews of reports of abuse and neglect. She was past

3683
03:47:19,560 --> 03:47:23,000
Speaker 1: on administrative leave a few weeks ago. According to the filing,

3684
03:47:23,600 --> 03:47:27,040
Speaker 1: the friday after Governor Abbott made the initial kind of

3685
03:47:27,120 --> 03:47:30,840
Speaker 1: letter UM, she was visited by an investigator from the

3686
03:47:30,959 --> 03:47:34,200
Speaker 1: agency UM, who was also seeking medical records related to

3687
03:47:34,280 --> 03:47:37,920
Speaker 1: her child. The family of the child, identified in court

3688
03:47:37,959 --> 03:47:41,840
Speaker 1: documents only as Mary Doe has as as refused to

3689
03:47:41,920 --> 03:47:44,400
Speaker 1: voluntarily a turn of the records and as taking the

3690
03:47:44,440 --> 03:47:48,400
Speaker 1: case to court. According to the lawsuit, the state investigator

3691
03:47:48,480 --> 03:47:51,240
Speaker 1: told parents that the only allegation against them was that

3692
03:47:51,400 --> 03:47:55,359
Speaker 1: their transgender daughter may have been provided with gender affirming

3693
03:47:55,400 --> 03:47:59,120
Speaker 1: healthcare and was currently transitioning, and that was that was

3694
03:47:59,240 --> 03:48:01,080
Speaker 1: the claims I was, that was the basis for the

3695
03:48:01,120 --> 03:48:04,680
Speaker 1: claims of of of of of child abuse. It's a

3696
03:48:05,520 --> 03:48:08,720
Speaker 1: so like. Initially, it wasn't clear if Abbot's order would

3697
03:48:08,760 --> 03:48:12,320
Speaker 1: survive kind of judicial scrutinty because the order does not

3698
03:48:12,440 --> 03:48:16,119
Speaker 1: any The order doesn't change any Texas law. UM. It's

3699
03:48:16,200 --> 03:48:19,959
Speaker 1: just it's just an opinion piece. And several county attorneys

3700
03:48:20,000 --> 03:48:23,840
Speaker 1: and district attorneys of Dallas and Houston have publicly condemned

3701
03:48:23,959 --> 03:48:27,320
Speaker 1: Abbots and Pakiston's directives UM, clarifying that they would not

3702
03:48:27,440 --> 03:48:30,480
Speaker 1: prosecute families for child abuse under the new definition and

3703
03:48:30,520 --> 03:48:34,200
Speaker 1: they would not irrationally um and unjustiably interfere with medical

3704
03:48:34,240 --> 03:48:38,160
Speaker 1: decisions UM. The mayor of Austin announced that Austin should

3705
03:48:38,160 --> 03:48:41,800
Speaker 1: be considered a safe place, a sanctuary for transgender children

3706
03:48:41,879 --> 03:48:44,160
Speaker 1: and their families, and they would not be enforcing the

3707
03:48:44,200 --> 03:48:46,760
Speaker 1: governor's mandate. So it's quite a time to be alive,

3708
03:48:46,879 --> 03:48:51,400
Speaker 1: to have sanctuary cities for being trans yep. And of

3709
03:48:51,480 --> 03:48:53,480
Speaker 1: course all of these things, whether it be from like

3710
03:48:53,560 --> 03:48:55,920
Speaker 1: the d A S or the mayor, that doesn't stop

3711
03:48:56,040 --> 03:48:58,840
Speaker 1: Child Protective Services from not investigating you like that doesn't

3712
03:48:58,879 --> 03:49:01,480
Speaker 1: like that doesn't like they can still investigate and harass you.

3713
03:49:01,640 --> 03:49:03,840
Speaker 1: They can still send agents to your door. They can

3714
03:49:03,879 --> 03:49:06,000
Speaker 1: still try to see his medical records, right, they can

3715
03:49:06,040 --> 03:49:09,320
Speaker 1: still investigate claims even if even if the DA won't prosecute.

3716
03:49:09,520 --> 03:49:12,600
Speaker 1: There's still that massive like looming threat of and like

3717
03:49:12,720 --> 03:49:18,560
Speaker 1: that like terror like holding over you know, people's heads. Um,

3718
03:49:19,200 --> 03:49:20,920
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's a it is like a

3719
03:49:21,000 --> 03:49:22,960
Speaker 1: mass it's a massive scare tactic, right it is. It

3720
03:49:23,080 --> 03:49:25,520
Speaker 1: is to terrorize people like they will be too scared

3721
03:49:25,640 --> 03:49:27,600
Speaker 1: to transition because they don't want their family to get

3722
03:49:27,600 --> 03:49:32,120
Speaker 1: in trouble. It's it's pretty grim. It's pretty it's pretty

3723
03:49:32,200 --> 03:49:36,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty evil. Um. So on the for for the

3724
03:49:36,160 --> 03:49:38,760
Speaker 1: for the a cl U and the LAMBDA Legal Court

3725
03:49:38,840 --> 03:49:42,200
Speaker 1: failing uh, they they're they're seeking to block the request

3726
03:49:42,240 --> 03:49:46,360
Speaker 1: for medical records from the employees case and more broadly

3727
03:49:46,480 --> 03:49:50,360
Speaker 1: kind of challenge the legitimacy of the entire investigation and

3728
03:49:50,440 --> 03:49:52,960
Speaker 1: the power that the government has to change this definition

3729
03:49:53,000 --> 03:49:56,160
Speaker 1: of child abuse. It's a because it's it's it's it's

3730
03:49:56,160 --> 03:49:58,760
Speaker 1: it's also important important to mention that the mandatory as

3731
03:49:59,200 --> 03:50:02,240
Speaker 1: the mandatory report wunning aspect of the bill, which was

3732
03:50:02,600 --> 03:50:04,800
Speaker 1: well not not bill of the of the legal opinion

3733
03:50:05,000 --> 03:50:09,840
Speaker 1: that was really emphasized in Governor Abbot's directive UM. Abbott

3734
03:50:09,840 --> 03:50:11,920
Speaker 1: describing his letter that the order would mean that all

3735
03:50:12,000 --> 03:50:17,160
Speaker 1: licensed professionals who have direct contact with children, including doctors, nurses, therapists,

3736
03:50:17,200 --> 03:50:19,880
Speaker 1: and even school teachers, would be required to report to

3737
03:50:19,920 --> 03:50:23,720
Speaker 1: state authorities um if if if they believe that there

3738
03:50:23,880 --> 03:50:26,760
Speaker 1: is a minor who is trans or could be receiving

3739
03:50:26,800 --> 03:50:29,680
Speaker 1: any kind of gender affirming treatment. Um and if they

3740
03:50:29,680 --> 03:50:33,920
Speaker 1: don't report this, they could themselves faced criminal penalties. So

3741
03:50:34,160 --> 03:50:36,280
Speaker 1: the whole, the whole mandatory reporting aspects and other like

3742
03:50:36,480 --> 03:50:40,800
Speaker 1: insanely insanely bad thing that we could talk about it

3743
03:50:40,800 --> 03:50:42,840
Speaker 1: for a long time. This episode is getting long enough,

3744
03:50:42,960 --> 03:50:45,520
Speaker 1: so we're just gonna continue through and we can we

3745
03:50:45,560 --> 03:50:48,840
Speaker 1: can ponder at how at how bad that is. UM.

3746
03:50:50,120 --> 03:50:53,440
Speaker 1: One parent of a transgender a teenager in Houston to

3747
03:50:53,680 --> 03:50:56,920
Speaker 1: the family's health clinic Legacy Community Health had suspended all

3748
03:50:56,960 --> 03:51:00,600
Speaker 1: refills and a new prescriptions for a transgender their youth

3749
03:51:01,000 --> 03:51:05,680
Speaker 1: in light of Abbot's new order. So it's it's happening, Like, yeah,

3750
03:51:05,720 --> 03:51:08,400
Speaker 1: it's there, it's the stuff has happened, the stuff has started.

3751
03:51:08,440 --> 03:51:10,880
Speaker 1: It's it's already scaring people into not doing stuff, like

3752
03:51:11,000 --> 03:51:15,680
Speaker 1: it's it's that is what to do. Yeah, and and

3753
03:51:15,960 --> 03:51:18,840
Speaker 1: I and I know we keep making this episode longer,

3754
03:51:18,960 --> 03:51:22,480
Speaker 1: but like it is worth mentioning that, like it actually

3755
03:51:22,640 --> 03:51:27,880
Speaker 1: like having someone even temporarily like being off of the

3756
03:51:27,960 --> 03:51:30,360
Speaker 1: hormones that they've been taking for for HRT, like that

3757
03:51:30,480 --> 03:51:34,920
Speaker 1: fucking sucks. Yeah, it's like it has really bad negative effects.

3758
03:51:35,280 --> 03:51:37,240
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, like people will be surprised how fast

3759
03:51:37,320 --> 03:51:40,920
Speaker 1: hormones start working and how fast going off of them

3760
03:51:41,080 --> 03:51:43,240
Speaker 1: they stopped working. Like it is, it is. It is

3761
03:51:43,280 --> 03:51:46,360
Speaker 1: pretty it is pretty surprising. And like I didn't want

3762
03:51:46,360 --> 03:51:48,600
Speaker 1: to get tons into like the science of being trans

3763
03:51:48,640 --> 03:51:50,440
Speaker 1: in this because that's because that's not the focus of

3764
03:51:50,520 --> 03:51:53,080
Speaker 1: this week. We're talking about the legislation and the onslaught

3765
03:51:53,520 --> 03:51:56,000
Speaker 1: of queer rights of people trying to hurt them. But

3766
03:51:56,160 --> 03:51:58,760
Speaker 1: like you know, it's it's obvious that like there is

3767
03:51:58,840 --> 03:52:01,440
Speaker 1: not many cases at all where there's being you know,

3768
03:52:01,600 --> 03:52:04,280
Speaker 1: like genital surgery done on miners, like if that does

3769
03:52:04,400 --> 03:52:06,480
Speaker 1: that does not happen. Um, it can happen for like

3770
03:52:06,640 --> 03:52:09,240
Speaker 1: medical like that can happen for medically necessary reasons, like

3771
03:52:09,520 --> 03:52:11,680
Speaker 1: if there's like accidents and stuff, but that doesn't happen

3772
03:52:11,800 --> 03:52:14,520
Speaker 1: for gender affirming care. What happens is you get on

3773
03:52:14,680 --> 03:52:17,120
Speaker 1: you you you go on puberty blockers, which are already

3774
03:52:17,120 --> 03:52:19,920
Speaker 1: prescribed to assist gender kids all the time. Um, if

3775
03:52:19,960 --> 03:52:22,640
Speaker 1: they have early onset puberty, they have no lasting side effects,

3776
03:52:22,640 --> 03:52:26,400
Speaker 1: they're completely safe. Um And in some cases, depending on

3777
03:52:26,520 --> 03:52:29,440
Speaker 1: the kids therapists and their doctors, they may be prescribed

3778
03:52:29,560 --> 03:52:32,440
Speaker 1: HRT or they will be prescribed that a bit later.

3779
03:52:32,560 --> 03:52:34,120
Speaker 1: But that is that even still, that is that is

3780
03:52:34,160 --> 03:52:36,640
Speaker 1: really the only things that happened, um, And what they're

3781
03:52:36,760 --> 03:52:40,200
Speaker 1: trying to suppress is both but both of like those things,

3782
03:52:40,240 --> 03:52:42,520
Speaker 1: but also like the ability for like therapists to even

3783
03:52:42,520 --> 03:52:45,040
Speaker 1: talk about gender with kids, Like if kids are having

3784
03:52:45,120 --> 03:52:48,160
Speaker 1: problems with with like with gender dysphoria, they don't feel

3785
03:52:48,200 --> 03:52:50,880
Speaker 1: comfortable to even have to not even be able to

3786
03:52:50,960 --> 03:52:52,960
Speaker 1: talk to that to talk talking about those feelings with

3787
03:52:53,040 --> 03:52:55,040
Speaker 1: therapists is like part is part of the goal because

3788
03:52:55,040 --> 03:52:58,960
Speaker 1: that can be considered gender affirming care. Um. I think

3789
03:52:59,000 --> 03:53:00,600
Speaker 1: that there's this point of the thing they should mention,

3790
03:53:00,680 --> 03:53:03,880
Speaker 1: which is that so there there is one kind like

3791
03:53:03,960 --> 03:53:05,680
Speaker 1: one that is the few, but there's there there's a

3792
03:53:05,760 --> 03:53:09,960
Speaker 1: very important kind of like quote unquote like gender surgery

3793
03:53:10,040 --> 03:53:11,640
Speaker 1: that is done on children, which is the stuff that's

3794
03:53:11,680 --> 03:53:15,360
Speaker 1: on to intersext kids. Yes, I mean sex kids. Yeah. Also,

3795
03:53:15,440 --> 03:53:19,200
Speaker 1: like circumcisions are already like yeah, but I mean with

3796
03:53:19,400 --> 03:53:21,720
Speaker 1: with specific with intersex kids. This stuff matters because all

3797
03:53:21,760 --> 03:53:24,040
Speaker 1: of these bills that you're talking about, it's like, oh,

3798
03:53:24,120 --> 03:53:27,120
Speaker 1: you can't have gender affirming surgery, you can't have like

3799
03:53:27,240 --> 03:53:29,560
Speaker 1: surgery and kids. Like every single one of these bills

3800
03:53:29,960 --> 03:53:32,000
Speaker 1: like that, they all have they all specifically have card

3801
03:53:32,240 --> 03:53:35,800
Speaker 1: carve outs to allow doctors to funk up the generals

3802
03:53:35,840 --> 03:53:39,400
Speaker 1: of interseex kids. Yeah, that's it's it's all carved out there.

3803
03:53:39,520 --> 03:53:43,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, well let's say we we are we are

3804
03:53:43,320 --> 03:53:46,000
Speaker 1: near the last we are we're near the last little

3805
03:53:46,000 --> 03:53:49,520
Speaker 1: stretch here. Um. On March eleventh, a Texas state court

3806
03:53:50,000 --> 03:53:53,200
Speaker 1: halted the new Department of Family Protective Services policy of

3807
03:53:53,280 --> 03:53:58,160
Speaker 1: investigating the parents of transgender children. Um District District Judge

3808
03:53:58,280 --> 03:54:03,120
Speaker 1: Amy mentioned conclude On concluded the hearing on the requested

3809
03:54:03,160 --> 03:54:06,960
Speaker 1: statewide injunction by saying, quote, the Governor's directive was given

3810
03:54:07,040 --> 03:54:10,720
Speaker 1: the effect of new law or new agency rule despite

3811
03:54:10,760 --> 03:54:14,960
Speaker 1: there being no new legislation, regulation, or even agency policy.

3812
03:54:15,480 --> 03:54:18,320
Speaker 1: Texas Governor Greg Abbott and Department of Family Protective Services

3813
03:54:18,400 --> 03:54:21,960
Speaker 1: Commissioner Baby Masters of their actions violate the separation of

3814
03:54:22,040 --> 03:54:27,840
Speaker 1: powers by impermissibly approaching into the legislative domain. UM. Judge

3815
03:54:27,920 --> 03:54:31,160
Speaker 1: Mention also granted a temporary restraining order blocking the state

3816
03:54:31,200 --> 03:54:35,240
Speaker 1: from investigating the family that that that prompted this lawsuit

3817
03:54:35,280 --> 03:54:37,640
Speaker 1: from happening from the from the person who already worked

3818
03:54:38,160 --> 03:54:43,160
Speaker 1: at the Department of a Family Protective Services UM. Texas

3819
03:54:43,200 --> 03:54:48,920
Speaker 1: Attorney General Kent Pactonum appealed this decision. Well, first of all,

3820
03:54:49,120 --> 03:54:53,800
Speaker 1: he appealed the restraining order and lost that appeal. UM.

3821
03:54:54,920 --> 03:54:57,720
Speaker 1: And and the s l U is trying to make

3822
03:54:57,800 --> 03:55:00,840
Speaker 1: this temporaries training order against the state permanent and extend

3823
03:55:00,920 --> 03:55:04,120
Speaker 1: to all parents of all transgender kids in Texas. And

3824
03:55:04,160 --> 03:55:06,120
Speaker 1: there's there's gonna be a whole trial scheduled for this

3825
03:55:06,760 --> 03:55:10,040
Speaker 1: topic on July eleven, two. So this is gonna this

3826
03:55:10,160 --> 03:55:12,520
Speaker 1: is gonna get this is gonna happen like where where

3827
03:55:12,600 --> 03:55:14,160
Speaker 1: we will figure out what is going to happen with

3828
03:55:14,240 --> 03:55:17,520
Speaker 1: this later on this year. Um. And after the judges

3829
03:55:17,640 --> 03:55:21,080
Speaker 1: ruling halting the investigations due to lack of legal binding

3830
03:55:21,600 --> 03:55:25,560
Speaker 1: um at Turney, General Ken Paxton filed an appeal for

3831
03:55:25,840 --> 03:55:30,160
Speaker 1: for for the ruling. So and that's so, so that's

3832
03:55:30,280 --> 03:55:33,920
Speaker 1: that's gonna get appealed, um and he he tweeted out

3833
03:55:33,960 --> 03:55:37,840
Speaker 1: that the quote Democratic judges order permitting child abuse is frozen.

3834
03:55:38,200 --> 03:55:41,160
Speaker 1: Much needed investigations will proceed as they should. The fight

3835
03:55:41,200 --> 03:55:44,080
Speaker 1: will continue up to the Supreme Court. I'm ready for it, um.

3836
03:55:44,360 --> 03:55:46,920
Speaker 1: But it's unclear how much legal backing this actually has.

3837
03:55:47,080 --> 03:55:49,880
Speaker 1: So we don't know if if the if the off

3838
03:55:49,960 --> 03:55:53,840
Speaker 1: the protective Services actually has permission to keep investigating or not.

3839
03:55:54,120 --> 03:55:57,200
Speaker 1: It is kind of unclear. Paxton says that they can this,

3840
03:55:57,520 --> 03:56:01,560
Speaker 1: this state judge says they can't, and that's kind of

3841
03:56:01,680 --> 03:56:03,320
Speaker 1: legally up in the air right now. So we don't

3842
03:56:03,400 --> 03:56:05,720
Speaker 1: totally know. But there's gonna be a whole trial on

3843
03:56:05,800 --> 03:56:09,440
Speaker 1: the topic in July. UM. Kind of one of the

3844
03:56:09,520 --> 03:56:12,240
Speaker 1: last things I want to mention is, uh, this this

3845
03:56:12,440 --> 03:56:15,280
Speaker 1: Idaho bill that was passed by the House of Representatives

3846
03:56:15,720 --> 03:56:19,160
Speaker 1: that would that would criminalize gender affirming medical procedures, including

3847
03:56:19,200 --> 03:56:23,840
Speaker 1: property blocker, sorry, including puberty blockers an HRT for any

3848
03:56:23,920 --> 03:56:27,040
Speaker 1: kind of trans transgend gender youth. And it was also

3849
03:56:27,080 --> 03:56:29,640
Speaker 1: reported that the bill would make it a felony punishable

3850
03:56:29,760 --> 03:56:32,640
Speaker 1: by life imprisonment to anyone who helps a kid travel

3851
03:56:32,720 --> 03:56:36,120
Speaker 1: across state lines to get gender affirming healthcare. But this

3852
03:56:36,240 --> 03:56:39,680
Speaker 1: actually maybe isn't actually true, Like this actually probably wasn't

3853
03:56:39,680 --> 03:56:42,640
Speaker 1: a part of that bill. Um. The bill just amend's

3854
03:56:42,800 --> 03:56:46,840
Speaker 1: current laws regarding female general mutilation of course of carving

3855
03:56:46,880 --> 03:56:50,320
Speaker 1: out a specific section to allow the mutilation of intersext

3856
03:56:50,400 --> 03:56:54,640
Speaker 1: kits um. But uh, but yeah, it added a section

3857
03:56:54,760 --> 03:56:58,400
Speaker 1: also criminalizing gender affirming care. Um. But the section of

3858
03:56:58,440 --> 03:57:00,360
Speaker 1: the bill making it a felony to try out of

3859
03:57:00,440 --> 03:57:05,560
Speaker 1: state only refers to the general mutilation section. Um. It

3860
03:57:05,640 --> 03:57:08,720
Speaker 1: doesn't refer to the gender firming care section. And it's

3861
03:57:08,800 --> 03:57:11,520
Speaker 1: unclear if that was an oversight, um or if the

3862
03:57:11,560 --> 03:57:16,440
Speaker 1: limitation was intentional. Who knows, um. But it still did

3863
03:57:16,480 --> 03:57:18,720
Speaker 1: attempt to criminalize gender firm me care within the state.

3864
03:57:19,320 --> 03:57:23,160
Speaker 1: The bill was I believe I think earlier this morning

3865
03:57:23,320 --> 03:57:26,160
Speaker 1: as of time time of recording, the bill was not

3866
03:57:26,400 --> 03:57:30,880
Speaker 1: passed by the Senate. Um, so that's good. Uh. They

3867
03:57:30,960 --> 03:57:33,920
Speaker 1: said the Senate that it was too vague in scope

3868
03:57:34,160 --> 03:57:36,000
Speaker 1: and it was unclear how it was going to be enforced.

3869
03:57:36,280 --> 03:57:39,040
Speaker 1: So that bill was halted and it did not did

3870
03:57:39,080 --> 03:57:45,640
Speaker 1: not continue. Um. Yeah, but you know that's yeah. There

3871
03:57:45,760 --> 03:57:47,280
Speaker 1: is a lot of the reason why all stuff has

3872
03:57:47,360 --> 03:57:49,320
Speaker 1: kind of started is that, like there has been so

3873
03:57:49,400 --> 03:57:52,280
Speaker 1: much progress happening in queer rights in the past like

3874
03:57:52,360 --> 03:57:56,040
Speaker 1: ten years, right, Um, So now because the progress is

3875
03:57:56,120 --> 03:57:58,760
Speaker 1: more visible, what was once like obvious but like low

3876
03:57:58,840 --> 03:58:01,560
Speaker 1: key bigotry is trying to be put into law. Right.

3877
03:58:01,640 --> 03:58:04,600
Speaker 1: There's there's there used to be so many medical hoops

3878
03:58:04,600 --> 03:58:06,840
Speaker 1: to jump through to get any type of gender affirming treatment,

3879
03:58:07,240 --> 03:58:11,040
Speaker 1: but now almost every like legit medical organization recognizes the

3880
03:58:11,080 --> 03:58:14,920
Speaker 1: importance of gender affirming care. So that plus the visibility

3881
03:58:15,040 --> 03:58:18,400
Speaker 1: and the cultural acceptance of queerness is making some you know,

3882
03:58:18,600 --> 03:58:22,760
Speaker 1: mostly good old white Christian conservative populations a little bit uncomfortable. Right.

3883
03:58:22,880 --> 03:58:26,280
Speaker 1: There's there's this increasing fear that what if your kid

3884
03:58:26,440 --> 03:58:28,960
Speaker 1: thinks they're trans, well, what if what if they become

3885
03:58:29,000 --> 03:58:31,680
Speaker 1: an unholy degenerate what if and what if there are

3886
03:58:31,760 --> 03:58:34,760
Speaker 1: people trying to make that happen on purpose. Right, all

3887
03:58:34,840 --> 03:58:37,880
Speaker 1: of the brutality, all of like, all of the brutality

3888
03:58:37,960 --> 03:58:40,760
Speaker 1: in these bills, the kind of the not like the

3889
03:58:41,120 --> 03:58:43,880
Speaker 1: total nonchalance at the possibility of you know, kids killing

3890
03:58:43,920 --> 03:58:46,960
Speaker 1: themselves because of this bill and because of all these legislations,

3891
03:58:47,000 --> 03:58:50,440
Speaker 1: like all of the transphobia negatively contributing to mental health.

3892
03:58:50,760 --> 03:58:53,560
Speaker 1: All that brutality is just justified in the minds of

3893
03:58:53,640 --> 03:58:57,000
Speaker 1: these anti trans like people because it's to save that

3894
03:58:57,120 --> 03:58:59,080
Speaker 1: it's to save their kids from experiencing that in the

3895
03:58:59,120 --> 03:59:01,800
Speaker 1: first place. Right, it's the idea that queerness is an infection,

3896
03:59:01,880 --> 03:59:03,640
Speaker 1: that it can spread from person to person. It's like

3897
03:59:03,720 --> 03:59:06,320
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's like a contagion. If you hear

3898
03:59:06,320 --> 03:59:09,880
Speaker 1: about it, you could yourself become gay. So they don't

3899
03:59:09,920 --> 03:59:11,840
Speaker 1: hear about it, then that's not going to be a possibility.

3900
03:59:12,040 --> 03:59:15,200
Speaker 1: So all all of the brutality, it's like it's it's

3901
03:59:15,280 --> 03:59:18,240
Speaker 1: it's it's both the point, but it's also justified because

3902
03:59:18,320 --> 03:59:20,440
Speaker 1: this thing is seen as such like an it's seeing

3903
03:59:20,440 --> 03:59:23,040
Speaker 1: as such an ontological threat to their whole idea of

3904
03:59:23,280 --> 03:59:28,240
Speaker 1: like the world. So yeah, that's uh, and it's I mean,

3905
03:59:28,240 --> 03:59:31,640
Speaker 1: it's it's not gonna stop right every you know, one,

3906
03:59:31,760 --> 03:59:34,560
Speaker 1: we saw a massive increase in legislation on this topic.

3907
03:59:35,600 --> 03:59:38,400
Speaker 1: Two we're seeing an even bigger increased in legislation on

3908
03:59:38,480 --> 03:59:42,240
Speaker 1: this topic, and you know, attempts to physically oppose it.

3909
03:59:42,440 --> 03:59:45,640
Speaker 1: You know, it's our can can kind of be done.

3910
03:59:45,640 --> 03:59:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, like you can you can see all there

3911
03:59:48,000 --> 03:59:50,800
Speaker 1: was some some successful kind of protests to the whole

3912
03:59:50,920 --> 03:59:54,240
Speaker 1: school board thing. You can also, like you can sneak

3913
03:59:54,400 --> 03:59:56,520
Speaker 1: queer books into libraries, so you can just put you

3914
03:59:56,560 --> 03:59:59,160
Speaker 1: can just put them in there. Um, you can request

3915
03:59:59,400 --> 04:00:02,920
Speaker 1: queer books in your library systems. Um. You can you know,

3916
04:00:02,960 --> 04:00:05,680
Speaker 1: attend school board meetings. And again it's sure that the

3917
04:00:05,760 --> 04:00:09,560
Speaker 1: institution of the Institution of schooling is problematic um in

3918
04:00:09,600 --> 04:00:12,400
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but it's we shouldn't make it

3919
04:00:12,480 --> 04:00:14,680
Speaker 1: worse for queer kids. So maybe it's still is worth

3920
04:00:14,680 --> 04:00:17,480
Speaker 1: actually focusing on. And there's there's a lot like you know,

3921
04:00:17,640 --> 04:00:19,280
Speaker 1: you can, like like in the case of the a

3922
04:00:19,360 --> 04:00:21,880
Speaker 1: sil U suit, there is legal challenges being taken up

3923
04:00:21,920 --> 04:00:24,360
Speaker 1: against all of these things. We'll see how that goes.

3924
04:00:25,240 --> 04:00:27,960
Speaker 1: The There's always been a there's always been a shaky

3925
04:00:28,000 --> 04:00:31,160
Speaker 1: record of the legal you know of like the court's

3926
04:00:31,200 --> 04:00:34,120
Speaker 1: ability to protect these rights. But every once in a

3927
04:00:34,160 --> 04:00:37,160
Speaker 1: while it does happen, like with like with gay marriage. UM.

3928
04:00:38,120 --> 04:00:40,280
Speaker 1: The last thing I'll mention with like specifically with like

3929
04:00:40,480 --> 04:00:43,240
Speaker 1: HRT being made illegal in a lot of these places,

3930
04:00:43,280 --> 04:00:46,040
Speaker 1: at least like prescribed vida doctor UM. I will kind

3931
04:00:46,080 --> 04:00:48,720
Speaker 1: of talk about. I will mention um d I y

3932
04:00:49,240 --> 04:00:51,080
Speaker 1: HRT as the thing that that that is the thing,

3933
04:00:51,120 --> 04:00:53,720
Speaker 1: it exists. You can go to d I y HRT

3934
04:00:53,920 --> 04:00:57,280
Speaker 1: dot get hub dot io to get information on this.

3935
04:00:58,000 --> 04:01:00,440
Speaker 1: It's been It requires a lot of like search, but

3936
04:01:00,560 --> 04:01:03,440
Speaker 1: you can find like you can get You can get

3937
04:01:03,480 --> 04:01:07,560
Speaker 1: like estrogen and stuff from like like made by the

3938
04:01:07,640 --> 04:01:10,880
Speaker 1: companies that that supply pharmacies. You can buy that legally. UM.

3939
04:01:10,920 --> 04:01:13,560
Speaker 1: Testosterones a little bit more iffy because that is I

3940
04:01:13,600 --> 04:01:16,840
Speaker 1: think that it's like a schedule tour scheduled three drug UM.

3941
04:01:17,240 --> 04:01:20,960
Speaker 1: But estrogen is much more available UM to buy legally online.

3942
04:01:21,080 --> 04:01:22,760
Speaker 1: To just make sure you get it from a good

3943
04:01:22,920 --> 04:01:25,000
Speaker 1: place and make sure that you you know, know how

3944
04:01:25,040 --> 04:01:27,160
Speaker 1: it affects you and all that stuff, like do lots

3945
04:01:27,200 --> 04:01:30,280
Speaker 1: of reading. But that is a possibility. So I will

3946
04:01:30,280 --> 04:01:32,120
Speaker 1: probably plan an episode on d A Y h R

3947
04:01:32,200 --> 04:01:34,960
Speaker 1: T in the near future. Just it's like a whole

3948
04:01:34,960 --> 04:01:36,640
Speaker 1: episode on the topic, but I just wanted to kind

3949
04:01:36,680 --> 04:01:38,000
Speaker 1: of mention that as one of the last things that

3950
04:01:38,120 --> 04:01:40,320
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, if they're restricting all these stuff, we

3951
04:01:40,360 --> 04:01:44,720
Speaker 1: should probably you know, learn to provided ourselves because there's

3952
04:01:44,760 --> 04:01:46,920
Speaker 1: no guarantee that the governments or any kind of even

3953
04:01:46,920 --> 04:01:48,760
Speaker 1: like pharmacies will be able to do that forever. Right, Like,

3954
04:01:48,880 --> 04:01:52,720
Speaker 1: it's it's good to have alternative methods of figuring out

3955
04:01:52,800 --> 04:01:55,320
Speaker 1: how to get the drugs that make you feel nice.

3956
04:01:56,560 --> 04:01:59,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was that is my episode on the

3957
04:02:00,200 --> 04:02:03,240
Speaker 1: on the legislation that has been happening in the past,

3958
04:02:03,400 --> 04:02:08,640
Speaker 1: in the past really like six months. Um, yeah, that's fun. Yeah,

3959
04:02:08,840 --> 04:02:10,960
Speaker 1: but by the time this is there, there might there

3960
04:02:11,040 --> 04:02:13,840
Speaker 1: might be new stuff that has happened. Oh, most certainly.

3961
04:02:14,200 --> 04:02:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah that's good. That's why when you know, when all

3962
04:02:18,320 --> 04:02:20,360
Speaker 1: this stuff gets very depressing, I just like listening to

3963
04:02:20,480 --> 04:02:23,480
Speaker 1: my favorite Wayne Cohen's song by Pink Floyd and it

3964
04:02:23,600 --> 04:02:28,320
Speaker 1: really just really does held me down and you feel

3965
04:02:28,400 --> 04:02:32,560
Speaker 1: much better. Wow. Well, I'm gonna go listen to the

3966
04:02:32,640 --> 04:02:37,520
Speaker 1: new uh double album that A hundred Guecks did with

3967
04:02:37,640 --> 04:02:41,280
Speaker 1: Billy Joel I do I do love me someone hundred

3968
04:02:41,320 --> 04:02:45,960
Speaker 1: gus mhmm, yeah, the Gecks Joel concert. It's even I

3969
04:02:46,360 --> 04:02:48,360
Speaker 1: hear that that Elton John is going to get into

3970
04:02:48,600 --> 04:02:51,400
Speaker 1: and they're gonna they're gonna do That would be quite

3971
04:02:51,440 --> 04:02:55,280
Speaker 1: this show. Honestly, that would would be a fascinating experience.

3972
04:02:56,400 --> 04:03:00,480
Speaker 1: That would be a very mix of like any women

3973
04:03:00,520 --> 04:03:09,440
Speaker 1: in their sixties and horny seventeen year olds. What happens? Well, yeah,

3974
04:03:09,640 --> 04:03:12,560
Speaker 1: that is Ah, there are plenty of organizations that are

3975
04:03:12,640 --> 04:03:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, fighting against and stuff in Texas. Um. I

3976
04:03:15,080 --> 04:03:18,200
Speaker 1: could list them, but honestly, if you if you if

3977
04:03:18,200 --> 04:03:21,200
Speaker 1: you're not there, it's it's it's if you mean you

3978
04:03:21,200 --> 04:03:23,280
Speaker 1: should you should. You should look into what's happening in

3979
04:03:23,360 --> 04:03:26,400
Speaker 1: your area. Learn what legislation is being passed in your area,

3980
04:03:26,800 --> 04:03:30,520
Speaker 1: learn what your you know representatives are doing, and look

3981
04:03:30,600 --> 04:03:34,160
Speaker 1: into helping people get the turkey. That's really that's really.

3982
04:03:34,400 --> 04:03:36,800
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if there's a way that bodybuilders can

3983
04:03:36,840 --> 04:03:39,000
Speaker 1: get testosterone, there's a way that you can get testosterone

3984
04:03:39,040 --> 04:03:43,000
Speaker 1: for transguise. If estrogen is much easier to get, um,

3985
04:03:43,440 --> 04:03:47,120
Speaker 1: so look into that, don't don't, don't be stupid. Um,

3986
04:03:47,600 --> 04:03:51,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, that is a. That's that is, that is

3987
04:03:51,280 --> 04:03:54,840
Speaker 1: that is my piece. Find joy, find violence and find

3988
04:03:54,920 --> 04:03:57,000
Speaker 1: the correct application of the two that allows people to

3989
04:03:57,040 --> 04:04:03,880
Speaker 1: stay alive. Yeah yeah, and uh yeah and uh listen

3990
04:04:03,960 --> 04:04:06,840
Speaker 1: to listen to music that makes you happy. That is

3991
04:04:06,960 --> 04:04:09,080
Speaker 1: that is that is all you can do. All you

3992
04:04:09,200 --> 04:04:13,840
Speaker 1: can all all you can do, yeah is find your

3993
04:04:13,880 --> 04:04:19,160
Speaker 1: favorite YouTube album. Uh featuring Roger Waters. All right, goodbye,

3994
04:04:33,120 --> 04:04:40,560
Speaker 1: oh boy, welcome to America. The podcast? Wait is that

3995
04:04:40,800 --> 04:04:42,800
Speaker 1: is that what we're calling it now? I don't think

3996
04:04:42,840 --> 04:04:45,720
Speaker 1: that's true. We just had like two episodes on international

3997
04:04:45,800 --> 04:04:47,680
Speaker 1: tours that think we are going to we're trying to

3998
04:04:47,760 --> 04:04:50,400
Speaker 1: be a little beyond America. I fucked it up. I

3999
04:04:50,560 --> 04:04:57,600
Speaker 1: fucked it up. Well that's the podcast. Goodbye everybody. See

4000
04:04:57,720 --> 04:05:01,520
Speaker 1: Usually at this point you say, Garrison take over. All right,

4001
04:05:01,600 --> 04:05:03,360
Speaker 1: well let's let's get into this. What are we talking

4002
04:05:03,400 --> 04:05:06,040
Speaker 1: about today? Who are we? Where are we? What is life?

4003
04:05:06,240 --> 04:05:09,480
Speaker 1: Where it could happen? Here? Where is God? Final episode

4004
04:05:09,640 --> 04:05:12,120
Speaker 1: of the war on transpeople? Which means when this episode,

4005
04:05:12,240 --> 04:05:14,040
Speaker 1: when this episode is done, that means the war will

4006
04:05:14,080 --> 04:05:16,960
Speaker 1: be over. We did at everybody and whatever God's once were,

4007
04:05:17,040 --> 04:05:19,560
Speaker 1: if long abandoned this place, we did get pretty good

4008
04:05:19,640 --> 04:05:24,560
Speaker 1: news about the governor of Utah kind of surprising me here.

4009
04:05:25,440 --> 04:05:30,040
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that just hit. That's nice. There's the there's that.

4010
04:05:30,440 --> 04:05:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean, luckily, looks some of some of the bills

4011
04:05:32,920 --> 04:05:34,720
Speaker 1: that we've talked about actually have been shut down at

4012
04:05:34,760 --> 04:05:38,240
Speaker 1: this Pointisconsin bill got shut got got kind of down

4013
04:05:38,720 --> 04:05:42,800
Speaker 1: surprisingly and in very very recently, like yeah, the past

4014
04:05:42,840 --> 04:05:46,640
Speaker 1: few days. Yeah, there's a looks like there's still going

4015
04:05:46,720 --> 04:05:50,320
Speaker 1: to be injunctions on any investigations in Texas until the

4016
04:05:50,480 --> 04:05:54,120
Speaker 1: case gets put up. That's still very much in the air. Yeah,

4017
04:05:54,320 --> 04:05:55,920
Speaker 1: it's it's it's still in the courts, but it's like

4018
04:05:56,160 --> 04:05:58,360
Speaker 1: it's it's trying. It's at least it's kind of paused

4019
04:05:58,440 --> 04:06:01,000
Speaker 1: right now, and it's going they get settled at some

4020
04:06:01,200 --> 04:06:05,120
Speaker 1: point in either the lawsuit or in higher courts. So

4021
04:06:05,280 --> 04:06:07,400
Speaker 1: we'll see, we'll see how that develops. But for right now,

4022
04:06:07,480 --> 04:06:10,040
Speaker 1: it seems some things seem to be paused and some

4023
04:06:10,240 --> 04:06:12,360
Speaker 1: states are not are not fully passing it. I know

4024
04:06:12,520 --> 04:06:18,800
Speaker 1: there was a walkout by Disney employees today about over

4025
04:06:18,880 --> 04:06:20,840
Speaker 1: there don't say gay bill, and we're gonna see if

4026
04:06:20,880 --> 04:06:24,520
Speaker 1: that's gonna get signed. Um So, yeah, still still up

4027
04:06:24,560 --> 04:06:26,400
Speaker 1: in the air, but we're gonna be talking about something

4028
04:06:26,440 --> 04:06:28,760
Speaker 1: a little bit different. We're gonna do some We're gonna

4029
04:06:28,800 --> 04:06:34,520
Speaker 1: do some time travel. Oh boy, that's that's what I

4030
04:06:34,760 --> 04:06:37,840
Speaker 1: had to say. So we're going We're going to go

4031
04:06:37,960 --> 04:06:40,600
Speaker 1: back to another time in which there was a for

4032
04:06:40,680 --> 04:06:45,000
Speaker 1: a very brief period, a massive expansion in the knowledge

4033
04:06:45,080 --> 04:06:49,160
Speaker 1: about and sort of but both knowledge about and appearance

4034
04:06:49,280 --> 04:06:52,080
Speaker 1: of and safety of trans people. And then it all

4035
04:06:52,200 --> 04:06:56,200
Speaker 1: catatrophically came crashing down. Oh good. And to help us

4036
04:06:56,240 --> 04:07:01,480
Speaker 1: with that is Robern Evidence, my boss. Hi, everybody, how

4037
04:07:01,520 --> 04:07:05,880
Speaker 1: are we doing, Garrison? How? How how are we doing? Oh?

4038
04:07:06,000 --> 04:07:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm doing actually flying, I'm just I'm just waiting for

4039
04:07:08,880 --> 04:07:11,080
Speaker 1: you to do your job, but not passing over all. Right.

4040
04:07:11,480 --> 04:07:14,480
Speaker 1: So the important thing to understand is that like the

4041
04:07:14,800 --> 04:07:19,240
Speaker 1: kind of very concept of not just gay rights, but

4042
04:07:19,400 --> 04:07:22,840
Speaker 1: like our our modern attitudes towards like what it means

4043
04:07:23,000 --> 04:07:27,840
Speaker 1: to be homosexual and trans all have their origins in

4044
04:07:28,000 --> 04:07:31,440
Speaker 1: Germany in the not not just in the post war period,

4045
04:07:31,480 --> 04:07:36,080
Speaker 1: but really the last couple of decades of the Kaiser

4046
04:07:36,480 --> 04:07:38,800
Speaker 1: and the Weimar Republic. Like that is where kind of

4047
04:07:38,880 --> 04:07:42,120
Speaker 1: the modern Western attitudes towards what it like is to

4048
04:07:42,320 --> 04:07:47,760
Speaker 1: be homosexual really get formed because obviously, like gay people

4049
04:07:47,880 --> 04:07:51,000
Speaker 1: have existed for forever, there's quite a bit of documentation.

4050
04:07:51,360 --> 04:07:53,160
Speaker 1: But if you look at like, for example, you know,

4051
04:07:53,240 --> 04:07:55,960
Speaker 1: to spirit folks within some Indigenous American cultures, that's a

4052
04:07:56,040 --> 04:08:00,920
Speaker 1: very different attitude towards um, like what trans people I

4053
04:08:01,000 --> 04:08:05,240
Speaker 1: suppose to the Western exactly. Yeah, so this is like

4054
04:08:05,360 --> 04:08:08,320
Speaker 1: they're there's Western quote unquote you know whatever. Yeah, there's

4055
04:08:08,360 --> 04:08:10,280
Speaker 1: the actual thing that's going on, and like the the

4056
04:08:10,360 --> 04:08:13,560
Speaker 1: individual sexuality, and then there's kind of the the public

4057
04:08:13,920 --> 04:08:17,680
Speaker 1: concept of what it is um and and that is

4058
04:08:17,880 --> 04:08:21,880
Speaker 1: really forming in probably the seminal moment that kind of

4059
04:08:21,960 --> 04:08:25,560
Speaker 1: starts this progress, as in August eighteen sixty seven, when

4060
04:08:25,600 --> 04:08:28,800
Speaker 1: a lawyer named Karl Heinrich Rix goes before the sixth

4061
04:08:28,840 --> 04:08:32,520
Speaker 1: Congress of German jurists in munich Um to urge them

4062
04:08:32,560 --> 04:08:36,200
Speaker 1: to repeal laws forbidding sex between men. So again there

4063
04:08:36,320 --> 04:08:39,160
Speaker 1: is still a Kaiser and like this is this is

4064
04:08:39,280 --> 04:08:43,400
Speaker 1: before Germany is actually fully a nation, right because eighteen

4065
04:08:43,440 --> 04:08:47,120
Speaker 1: seventies when that happens, so Germany doesn't even really exist

4066
04:08:47,200 --> 04:08:50,120
Speaker 1: at this point. There's a series of like kings kind

4067
04:08:50,160 --> 04:08:53,320
Speaker 1: of being welded together slowly into a German state. And

4068
04:08:53,440 --> 04:08:55,560
Speaker 1: there is a lawyer getting up in front of like

4069
04:08:55,720 --> 04:08:59,160
Speaker 1: the council of different German jurists to urge an into

4070
04:08:59,280 --> 04:09:01,600
Speaker 1: the laws that get illegal for for men to have

4071
04:09:01,680 --> 04:09:03,200
Speaker 1: sex with each other. And one thing that's important to

4072
04:09:03,240 --> 04:09:06,680
Speaker 1: notice that obviously there are lesbians in this period of time,

4073
04:09:06,680 --> 04:09:09,160
Speaker 1: as again there have been throughout all of history. That's

4074
04:09:09,160 --> 04:09:11,480
Speaker 1: not really a legal problem, right, they do not face

4075
04:09:11,640 --> 04:09:15,080
Speaker 1: really legal repression and and I mean not to say

4076
04:09:15,160 --> 04:09:17,240
Speaker 1: that like there's not repression and things that they're dealing with,

4077
04:09:17,320 --> 04:09:19,600
Speaker 1: but it's not the same as as it is for

4078
04:09:19,720 --> 04:09:22,520
Speaker 1: like men who want to be in relationships with men.

4079
04:09:22,640 --> 04:09:25,160
Speaker 1: That's it's in fact a lot easier for women to

4080
04:09:25,320 --> 04:09:27,520
Speaker 1: be kind of like and this is not just Germany

4081
04:09:27,760 --> 04:09:30,600
Speaker 1: to be built to like kind of say like fends

4082
04:09:30,640 --> 04:09:32,960
Speaker 1: and we lived together right, like we're a tease and

4083
04:09:33,040 --> 04:09:37,000
Speaker 1: we live together like where. Yeah, that that because in

4084
04:09:37,080 --> 04:09:39,080
Speaker 1: part because men, just like I think a lot of

4085
04:09:39,200 --> 04:09:41,400
Speaker 1: like the men in this period just assume it's impossible

4086
04:09:41,600 --> 04:09:44,920
Speaker 1: like that women would do that or or the other

4087
04:09:44,960 --> 04:09:48,240
Speaker 1: side of it is like femininity is always presentuary, it's

4088
04:09:48,240 --> 04:09:50,320
Speaker 1: always like it's you as soon as a beauty symbol.

4089
04:09:50,360 --> 04:09:51,920
Speaker 1: So it makes more sense for women to find other

4090
04:09:51,960 --> 04:09:55,680
Speaker 1: women attractive, because that's what beauty is, is when is

4091
04:09:55,720 --> 04:09:59,200
Speaker 1: performative of femininity. So like that's like way more obvious

4092
04:09:59,280 --> 04:10:01,160
Speaker 1: and it doesn't make sense for but and it makes

4093
04:10:01,240 --> 04:10:03,640
Speaker 1: less sense for men to find other men attractive, and

4094
04:10:03,720 --> 04:10:06,240
Speaker 1: that's way more taboo because of the way that messages

4095
04:10:06,280 --> 04:10:09,360
Speaker 1: with like patriarchy. Um, so yeah, I think there could

4096
04:10:09,400 --> 04:10:11,680
Speaker 1: be a very like gender studies and sexuality studies, you

4097
04:10:11,720 --> 04:10:14,320
Speaker 1: can have a lot of theorizing for how this has developed.

4098
04:10:14,440 --> 04:10:16,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, this this idea you can even see in

4099
04:10:16,160 --> 04:10:18,920
Speaker 1: like Victorian era and like reruna assance sera of yeah,

4100
04:10:19,080 --> 04:10:22,680
Speaker 1: women who lived together and are very good friends, very

4101
04:10:22,840 --> 04:10:25,880
Speaker 1: very very close friends. I hope people don't feel like

4102
04:10:25,960 --> 04:10:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm trying to like flatten the history of like the

4103
04:10:29,560 --> 04:10:32,400
Speaker 1: concept of being a lesbian in the West to to

4104
04:10:32,840 --> 04:10:34,960
Speaker 1: that at all, or trying, for that matter, flattened like

4105
04:10:35,760 --> 04:10:39,200
Speaker 1: homosexuality between men. But I am kind of making the point,

4106
04:10:39,280 --> 04:10:41,680
Speaker 1: and I am not the person who are kind of

4107
04:10:41,960 --> 04:10:44,480
Speaker 1: initially made this point. The scholarly work that I'm kind

4108
04:10:44,520 --> 04:10:48,320
Speaker 1: of basing my research on this on largely right now,

4109
04:10:48,360 --> 04:10:50,440
Speaker 1: and we're going to do an episode Behind the Bastards

4110
04:10:50,480 --> 04:10:52,480
Speaker 1: that gets in two more of this, I think in

4111
04:10:52,520 --> 04:10:54,920
Speaker 1: the near future. But it's a called gaber Lynn by

4112
04:10:55,120 --> 04:10:58,120
Speaker 1: Robert Baccy um And in the book, one of the

4113
04:10:58,160 --> 04:11:01,680
Speaker 1: things that Beach argues is that even though obviously same

4114
04:11:01,720 --> 04:11:04,480
Speaker 1: sex love is as old as the existence of quite

4115
04:11:04,480 --> 04:11:07,400
Speaker 1: a bit older actually than the existence of human beings, um,

4116
04:11:07,640 --> 04:11:11,320
Speaker 1: the public discourse around it and like the political attempt

4117
04:11:11,400 --> 04:11:14,680
Speaker 1: to win rights for gay people starts in Germany in

4118
04:11:14,720 --> 04:11:17,080
Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, and it starts in this conference

4119
04:11:17,400 --> 04:11:21,200
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty seven. Um. And and the guy who

4120
04:11:21,280 --> 04:11:24,200
Speaker 1: does this RIX is a number one, is a gay man. Um.

4121
04:11:24,840 --> 04:11:26,880
Speaker 1: And he had he had been open kind of to

4122
04:11:27,120 --> 04:11:29,880
Speaker 1: his relatives. He had started in the period before he

4123
04:11:29,920 --> 04:11:31,480
Speaker 1: gets up in front of all these lawyers to be

4124
04:11:31,520 --> 04:11:34,720
Speaker 1: open with like his family members that he was homosexual. Um.

4125
04:11:35,640 --> 04:11:38,720
Speaker 1: But he had never like, he was not publicly out.

4126
04:11:39,080 --> 04:11:41,480
Speaker 1: And so on the same day that he appeals for

4127
04:11:41,680 --> 04:11:44,800
Speaker 1: a change in the legal code to make homosexuality legal

4128
04:11:44,960 --> 04:11:47,520
Speaker 1: in the German States is the day he comes out

4129
04:11:47,600 --> 04:11:49,720
Speaker 1: publicly as a gay man. Like. He does both of

4130
04:11:49,800 --> 04:11:52,920
Speaker 1: these things at the same time. And I want from

4131
04:11:52,920 --> 04:11:59,720
Speaker 1: a New York Yeah, it's quite a moment. Um. I

4132
04:11:59,760 --> 04:12:01,560
Speaker 1: want to read a quote from a New Yorker article

4133
04:12:01,640 --> 04:12:03,560
Speaker 1: that's covering all of this, and that's based again on

4134
04:12:03,640 --> 04:12:06,360
Speaker 1: the book Gay Berlin quote. He faced an audience of

4135
04:12:06,400 --> 04:12:08,960
Speaker 1: more than five hundred distinguished legal figures, and as he

4136
04:12:09,080 --> 04:12:10,960
Speaker 1: walked to the lectern, he felt a pang of fear.

4137
04:12:11,280 --> 04:12:13,880
Speaker 1: There was still time to keep silent, he later remembered

4138
04:12:13,920 --> 04:12:16,120
Speaker 1: telling himself, then there will be an end to all

4139
04:12:16,160 --> 04:12:19,360
Speaker 1: your heart pounding. But Rix, who had earlier disclosed the

4140
04:12:19,440 --> 04:12:22,000
Speaker 1: same sex desires and letters to relatives, did not stop.

4141
04:12:22,280 --> 04:12:24,840
Speaker 1: He told the assembly that people with a sexual nature

4142
04:12:24,920 --> 04:12:28,800
Speaker 1: opposed to common custom were being persecuted for impulses that nature,

4143
04:12:29,040 --> 04:12:33,560
Speaker 1: mysteriously governing and creating, had implanted in them. Pandemonium erupted

4144
04:12:33,760 --> 04:12:36,520
Speaker 1: and Rix was forced to cut short his remarks. Still

4145
04:12:36,600 --> 04:12:39,360
Speaker 1: he had an effect. A few liberal minded colleagues accepted

4146
04:12:39,440 --> 04:12:42,280
Speaker 1: his notion of an innate gay identity, and a Bavarian

4147
04:12:42,320 --> 04:12:45,920
Speaker 1: official privately confessed to similar yearnings, and a pamphlet titled

4148
04:12:46,000 --> 04:12:50,000
Speaker 1: Gladius Furens or Raging Sword or Rix wrote, I am

4149
04:12:50,080 --> 04:12:52,400
Speaker 1: proud that I found the strength to thrust the first

4150
04:12:52,520 --> 04:12:57,280
Speaker 1: lance into the flank of the hydra of publican. I

4151
04:12:57,440 --> 04:13:03,240
Speaker 1: feel like that sometimes funny, incredibly Wow, what if there's

4152
04:13:03,240 --> 04:13:05,320
Speaker 1: a heaven. I hope this dude made it there because

4153
04:13:05,520 --> 04:13:12,000
Speaker 1: one absolute yeah unbelievable. Yeah so no, but like what

4154
04:13:12,160 --> 04:13:15,640
Speaker 1: it like like yeah, the astonished, like the astounding bravery

4155
04:13:15,720 --> 04:13:21,120
Speaker 1: that that takes. Um. And he's essentially the first gay

4156
04:13:21,200 --> 04:13:26,600
Speaker 1: activist in a modern Western political context. Um. And it's interesting,

4157
04:13:26,760 --> 04:13:30,720
Speaker 1: like uh within kind of the the next couple of years,

4158
04:13:30,760 --> 04:13:33,080
Speaker 1: things start to happen very quickly. Two years later in

4159
04:13:33,120 --> 04:13:36,680
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine, and Austrian, an Austrian writer I know

4160
04:13:36,880 --> 04:13:39,880
Speaker 1: right named Carl Kurt Benny UM, who is kind of

4161
04:13:39,960 --> 04:13:42,880
Speaker 1: fighting sodomy laws and and and sodomy laws are laws

4162
04:13:42,960 --> 04:13:47,960
Speaker 1: that make everything that's not like missionary position sexily targeted

4163
04:13:47,960 --> 04:13:51,400
Speaker 1: towards towards gay men primarily. UM. So Carl Kurt Benny

4164
04:13:51,880 --> 04:13:54,679
Speaker 1: create like he's the guy who invinced the term homosexuality,

4165
04:13:55,280 --> 04:13:57,080
Speaker 1: like like two years after this is part of his

4166
04:13:57,200 --> 04:14:02,320
Speaker 1: like fight against these anti sodomy laws. Um. The eighteen

4167
04:14:02,440 --> 04:14:06,920
Speaker 1: eighties Berlin police commissioner makes the decision to stop prosecuting

4168
04:14:06,960 --> 04:14:10,360
Speaker 1: gay bars UM. And in fact, not only does he

4169
04:14:10,440 --> 04:14:13,040
Speaker 1: stop doing this, but he starts leading tours of the

4170
04:14:13,080 --> 04:14:15,440
Speaker 1: gay districts in Berlin just to like show off, like,

4171
04:14:15,560 --> 04:14:22,440
Speaker 1: look at how it's kind of rights. Wow, yeah, what

4172
04:14:22,560 --> 04:14:24,680
Speaker 1: a weird picture of putting your head at least even

4173
04:14:24,760 --> 04:14:28,160
Speaker 1: like yeah, especially copying, like why are we arresting these people?

4174
04:14:28,240 --> 04:14:35,320
Speaker 1: Let's show this off? Yeah yeah. So in eighteen nineties six,

4175
04:14:35,520 --> 04:14:39,360
Speaker 1: the very first gay magazine starts publishing in Germany in Berlin.

4176
04:14:39,440 --> 04:14:42,400
Speaker 1: Really do you want to know what it's called? Of course? Why?

4177
04:14:42,640 --> 04:14:46,360
Speaker 1: Of course the German name is Der eigen h and

4178
04:14:46,480 --> 04:14:51,280
Speaker 1: that means the self owning. That's great, it's pretty, it's

4179
04:14:51,320 --> 04:14:56,120
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Um So the very next year, eighteen nineties seven,

4180
04:14:56,320 --> 04:14:59,360
Speaker 1: one of the primary heroes of the early gay rights

4181
04:14:59,360 --> 04:15:04,720
Speaker 1: struggle for Asian, Magnus Hirschfeld uh starts the Scientific Humanitarian Committee,

4182
04:15:04,840 --> 04:15:08,320
Speaker 1: which is the first organized gay rights group in Western

4183
04:15:08,480 --> 04:15:12,040
Speaker 1: history at least. Um So, by the start of the

4184
04:15:12,080 --> 04:15:14,840
Speaker 1: twentieth century, a lot of stuff is in place, right,

4185
04:15:14,920 --> 04:15:16,520
Speaker 1: And I think I'm even have been a little bit

4186
04:15:16,520 --> 04:15:18,600
Speaker 1: guilty of this in the past, of kind of focusing

4187
04:15:18,720 --> 04:15:21,320
Speaker 1: so much on Weimar Germany, um and all of the

4188
04:15:21,360 --> 04:15:23,200
Speaker 1: stuff that happens around game by rights there and how

4189
04:15:23,280 --> 04:15:26,120
Speaker 1: progressive it was. This is building in Germany again, we

4190
04:15:26,200 --> 04:15:30,440
Speaker 1: don't consider the kaiser Reich as a particularly progressive place.

4191
04:15:30,520 --> 04:15:33,680
Speaker 1: But all of this is happening under the Kaisers. And

4192
04:15:34,640 --> 04:15:36,840
Speaker 1: there's there's so many things that are happening in the

4193
04:15:37,040 --> 04:15:40,440
Speaker 1: eighteen nineties and the start of the nineteen hundreds that

4194
04:15:40,600 --> 04:15:42,840
Speaker 1: directly mirror things that are happening in the United States

4195
04:15:42,880 --> 04:15:46,760
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties. In fact, right as the century turns, um,

4196
04:15:46,960 --> 04:15:49,200
Speaker 1: you start getting an advocate. One of the first gay

4197
04:15:49,280 --> 04:15:52,720
Speaker 1: rights advocates in gay literature uses the phrase coins the

4198
04:15:52,760 --> 04:15:56,920
Speaker 1: phrase staying silent is death to like talk about the

4199
04:15:57,000 --> 04:16:01,720
Speaker 1: importance of gay literary, Yeah, which is essentially the same slogan.

4200
04:16:03,280 --> 04:16:05,040
Speaker 1: It's the same stuff we're talking about right now with

4201
04:16:05,560 --> 04:16:08,120
Speaker 1: with all of like the with with all like the

4202
04:16:08,120 --> 04:16:11,280
Speaker 1: book bannings taking you know, doing a massive sweep of

4203
04:16:11,320 --> 04:16:13,640
Speaker 1: that the past the past few years. Yeah, this is

4204
04:16:13,800 --> 04:16:21,200
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred, like basically that this is starting time. Um.

4205
04:16:22,640 --> 04:16:24,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, and there's you know, there's even there's a

4206
04:16:24,840 --> 04:16:28,160
Speaker 1: lot of um activists start to complain and start to

4207
04:16:28,200 --> 04:16:30,400
Speaker 1: try to complain both within like their own magazines and

4208
04:16:30,480 --> 04:16:33,520
Speaker 1: within like more public magazines about things like negative depictions

4209
04:16:33,560 --> 04:16:36,800
Speaker 1: of gay people in popular novels. They start to be

4210
04:16:37,000 --> 04:16:39,520
Speaker 1: the first arguments about whether or not it's morally right

4211
04:16:39,600 --> 04:16:41,960
Speaker 1: to out people who are gay but who are attached

4212
04:16:42,000 --> 04:16:47,520
Speaker 1: to anti gay organizations, because that starts happen. Absolutely. Um,

4213
04:16:47,720 --> 04:16:51,640
Speaker 1: it's it's sucking wild, how gold off, this is nothing

4214
04:16:51,680 --> 04:16:54,320
Speaker 1: new in the sun. Yeah, but like, but this is

4215
04:16:54,360 --> 04:16:56,440
Speaker 1: also like the first time it happened in these types

4216
04:16:56,480 --> 04:17:00,120
Speaker 1: of countries, in these societies. Yeah. Yeah, but like it

4217
04:17:00,280 --> 04:17:02,560
Speaker 1: is that it is so yes times a flat circle.

4218
04:17:02,600 --> 04:17:03,960
Speaker 1: But this is also like the first time it's happened,

4219
04:17:03,960 --> 04:17:06,600
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of been rehappening ever since. Then.

4220
04:17:07,240 --> 04:17:09,600
Speaker 1: It's important to note I didn't I didn't covers. When

4221
04:17:09,640 --> 04:17:11,520
Speaker 1: we start talking about Rix, well, there's a lot of

4222
04:17:11,600 --> 04:17:14,480
Speaker 1: people who get angry, and obviously Rix is not successful

4223
04:17:14,520 --> 04:17:18,760
Speaker 1: in repealing the anti homosexuality laws. Um. When he makes

4224
04:17:18,800 --> 04:17:20,320
Speaker 1: his speech. In addition to the people who are like

4225
04:17:20,560 --> 04:17:23,040
Speaker 1: yelling at him to sit down, there are like German

4226
04:17:23,160 --> 04:17:26,120
Speaker 1: deputies yelling no, no, no, let him continue, let him continue,

4227
04:17:26,200 --> 04:17:28,600
Speaker 1: like he needs to be allowed to talk. Um. So

4228
04:17:28,760 --> 04:17:31,320
Speaker 1: even like in this period of time, there are non

4229
04:17:31,480 --> 04:17:34,560
Speaker 1: gay people at a fairly high level in German politics

4230
04:17:34,600 --> 04:17:38,120
Speaker 1: who are like vocal allies and starting gonna become vocal

4231
04:17:38,160 --> 04:17:44,080
Speaker 1: allies you know. Um, yeah, it's it's it's pretty fascinating.

4232
04:17:44,240 --> 04:17:48,280
Speaker 1: So um, obviously World World War One happens, um doesn't

4233
04:17:48,280 --> 04:17:52,160
Speaker 1: go great for Germany, but you know, we we get

4234
04:17:52,240 --> 04:17:55,560
Speaker 1: after that the Weimar Republic, and the Weimar Republic is

4235
04:17:56,080 --> 04:17:57,960
Speaker 1: kind of the traditional era in which we talk a

4236
04:17:58,040 --> 04:18:00,440
Speaker 1: lot about, you know, gay rights starting to really move

4237
04:18:00,520 --> 04:18:04,400
Speaker 1: forward in significant ways. And uh so there's a lot of, um,

4238
04:18:04,800 --> 04:18:07,600
Speaker 1: even kind of into the early nineteen thirties, some pretty

4239
04:18:07,640 --> 04:18:10,280
Speaker 1: interesting things that are happening in German society and like

4240
04:18:10,480 --> 04:18:12,680
Speaker 1: the mainstream elements of it. There's a film called ma

4241
04:18:12,840 --> 04:18:15,920
Speaker 1: Chin in Uniform in nineteen thirty one, which is the

4242
04:18:16,040 --> 04:18:20,720
Speaker 1: first like positive portrayal of lesbians in Western cinema. Um,

4243
04:18:21,040 --> 04:18:23,200
Speaker 1: Like thirty one is like again we're talking like right

4244
04:18:23,280 --> 04:18:29,000
Speaker 1: before uh Z, the Nazis kind of kind of come around. Um,

4245
04:18:30,400 --> 04:18:33,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, there's these like this, This this police commissioner

4246
04:18:33,960 --> 04:18:35,480
Speaker 1: that we chatted about earlier. I think it's one of

4247
04:18:35,480 --> 04:18:37,360
Speaker 1: the people who's most interesting to me. We're gonna get

4248
04:18:37,360 --> 04:18:39,800
Speaker 1: to Hirshfeld a bit in in a little bit, but

4249
04:18:39,920 --> 04:18:44,000
Speaker 1: this this guy is named Leopold von Muerscheit Hulsheim, Um,

4250
04:18:44,240 --> 04:18:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get that right. But he's a

4251
04:18:46,720 --> 04:18:49,440
Speaker 1: big part of when we talk about gay Berlin, particularly

4252
04:18:49,520 --> 04:18:51,440
Speaker 1: during the Weimar years. Even though he's like during what

4253
04:18:51,600 --> 04:18:55,760
Speaker 1: while the Kaiser's in, He's why gay Berlin really happens

4254
04:18:55,800 --> 04:18:58,520
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, um. And it's in part

4255
04:18:58,640 --> 04:19:03,240
Speaker 1: because like he decides to stop cracking down on on

4256
04:19:03,400 --> 04:19:07,000
Speaker 1: gay people, um and like he's not gay, although his

4257
04:19:07,160 --> 04:19:09,720
Speaker 1: boss is, which is part of like what makes it

4258
04:19:09,840 --> 04:19:12,360
Speaker 1: easier um for him to do this. And there's like

4259
04:19:12,360 --> 04:19:14,360
Speaker 1: a lot of debate about why he does this because

4260
04:19:14,360 --> 04:19:17,280
Speaker 1: he's not like a gay rights activist. Some people say

4261
04:19:17,320 --> 04:19:20,600
Speaker 1: that it's because, um, he's worried that like gay people

4262
04:19:20,640 --> 04:19:23,440
Speaker 1: will become politically radicalized by the Reds and so if

4263
04:19:23,480 --> 04:19:26,000
Speaker 1: you stop cracking down on them, they won't go communists

4264
04:19:26,080 --> 04:19:28,120
Speaker 1: like that. There's a lot of like debate about like

4265
04:19:28,240 --> 04:19:31,440
Speaker 1: why he does this. Um. He's also there's a number

4266
04:19:31,480 --> 04:19:32,880
Speaker 1: of things that he like, he takes a lot of

4267
04:19:33,160 --> 04:19:36,560
Speaker 1: data on on gay people in Berlin, and he does

4268
04:19:36,640 --> 04:19:39,120
Speaker 1: this on everybody. He's a big data guy, so it's

4269
04:19:39,160 --> 04:19:44,320
Speaker 1: not particularly uh um harmful in his era, but it's

4270
04:19:44,400 --> 04:19:46,280
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that he gathers will be used

4271
04:19:46,320 --> 04:19:48,720
Speaker 1: by the Nazis later. Um, which is kind of a

4272
04:19:48,800 --> 04:19:51,600
Speaker 1: broader thing about like the wisdom of not letting the

4273
04:19:51,640 --> 04:19:53,720
Speaker 1: government get access to this like he has. He founds

4274
04:19:53,760 --> 04:19:56,480
Speaker 1: a department of Homosexuals in eighteen eighty five that like

4275
04:19:56,640 --> 04:19:59,640
Speaker 1: lists the people that they know are gay and and

4276
04:20:00,040 --> 04:20:02,920
Speaker 1: in like this is all. So it's really a complicated thing.

4277
04:20:03,040 --> 04:20:05,840
Speaker 1: That's that's happening here because he's not he's not this

4278
04:20:06,000 --> 04:20:09,280
Speaker 1: like thoroughly sympathetic figure. He's doing a lot of stuff

4279
04:20:09,760 --> 04:20:12,400
Speaker 1: that's that's weird and that will later have negative outcomes.

4280
04:20:12,480 --> 04:20:16,240
Speaker 1: But he's also by ending police persecution of gay people, um,

4281
04:20:16,320 --> 04:20:20,240
Speaker 1: at least in an organized way, really allowing gay culture

4282
04:20:20,400 --> 04:20:25,200
Speaker 1: to to blossom um in Berlin. Uh. And it's it's

4283
04:20:25,360 --> 04:20:28,600
Speaker 1: it's yeah. I'm gonna read another quote from that New

4284
04:20:28,680 --> 04:20:32,760
Speaker 1: Yorker article here. For whatever reason, Mr scheit Holsenheim took

4285
04:20:32,840 --> 04:20:35,840
Speaker 1: a fairly benevolent attitude towards Berlin's same sex bars and

4286
04:20:35,960 --> 04:20:37,880
Speaker 1: dance halls, at least in the better healed parts of

4287
04:20:37,960 --> 04:20:40,440
Speaker 1: the city. He was on cordial terms with many regulars,

4288
04:20:40,480 --> 04:20:44,120
Speaker 1: and none other than Odious Strindberg testified in his autobiographical

4289
04:20:44,200 --> 04:20:47,360
Speaker 1: novel The Cloister which evokes the same sex costume ball

4290
04:20:47,440 --> 04:20:51,320
Speaker 1: at the Cafe Nationale, and this is the police inspector

4291
04:20:51,360 --> 04:20:53,200
Speaker 1: and his guests had seated themselves at a table in

4292
04:20:53,240 --> 04:20:54,920
Speaker 1: the center of one end of the room, close to

4293
04:20:55,000 --> 04:20:57,720
Speaker 1: which all the couples had to pass. The inspector called

4294
04:20:57,760 --> 04:20:59,480
Speaker 1: them by their Christian names and some in some of

4295
04:20:59,520 --> 04:21:02,200
Speaker 1: the most interesting among them to his table. So he's

4296
04:21:02,280 --> 04:21:06,200
Speaker 1: kind of like going on safari, like among the gay

4297
04:21:06,280 --> 04:21:08,680
Speaker 1: people in Berlin. Like there's a lot of weird it's

4298
04:21:08,760 --> 04:21:11,440
Speaker 1: it's weird in a lot of way. Um. But he's

4299
04:21:11,480 --> 04:21:14,720
Speaker 1: also one of the things he does is he provides

4300
04:21:14,840 --> 04:21:18,000
Speaker 1: police help to gay people who are being blackmailed and

4301
04:21:18,080 --> 04:21:20,840
Speaker 1: like threatened without ing um. And he'll even like counsel

4302
04:21:20,920 --> 04:21:22,960
Speaker 1: them on how to handle it, Like he provides like

4303
04:21:23,040 --> 04:21:25,960
Speaker 1: counselors and stuff. And he does this in part because

4304
04:21:26,080 --> 04:21:30,320
Speaker 1: like he's worried about, um, them committing suicide because they're

4305
04:21:30,360 --> 04:21:32,600
Speaker 1: being blackmailed, which is like a real problem in Germany

4306
04:21:32,640 --> 04:21:36,480
Speaker 1: in a bunch of other places. Um. Yeah, And this guy,

4307
04:21:36,800 --> 04:21:39,760
Speaker 1: like why this police commissioner winds up killing himself kind

4308
04:21:39,800 --> 04:21:42,040
Speaker 1: of in the early nineteen hundreds, I think because he

4309
04:21:42,160 --> 04:21:45,040
Speaker 1: wound up getting found to be taken bribes from some

4310
04:21:45,200 --> 04:21:47,200
Speaker 1: millionaire who gets in a lot of legal trouble for

4311
04:21:47,320 --> 04:21:50,360
Speaker 1: raping somebody. So again, he is a sketchy dude. But

4312
04:21:50,440 --> 04:21:53,840
Speaker 1: he's also like because he's he's got this weird almost

4313
04:21:53,880 --> 04:21:58,000
Speaker 1: like voyeuristic fascination with gay people, um and some legitimate

4314
04:21:58,040 --> 04:22:00,960
Speaker 1: because there are legitimate humanitarian concern he's really worried about

4315
04:22:00,960 --> 04:22:03,800
Speaker 1: people committing suicide as a result of blackmail. So he's

4316
04:22:03,800 --> 04:22:06,360
Speaker 1: one of these figures we don't talk about enough in

4317
04:22:06,480 --> 04:22:09,240
Speaker 1: history where it's like the overall outcome of this guy's

4318
04:22:10,240 --> 04:22:13,720
Speaker 1: at work is pretty positive, but he does it for

4319
04:22:13,800 --> 04:22:17,480
Speaker 1: this like really confusing mix of reasons. He's just a

4320
04:22:17,720 --> 04:22:21,440
Speaker 1: very strange figure in history. Well, I think it's interesting

4321
04:22:21,560 --> 04:22:24,360
Speaker 1: looking at him, like like comparing him to like if

4322
04:22:24,360 --> 04:22:25,640
Speaker 1: you look at like what the U. S Is doing

4323
04:22:25,680 --> 04:22:27,600
Speaker 1: in the fifties, right where there's this whole thing about

4324
04:22:27,640 --> 04:22:29,200
Speaker 1: like gay people are getting are going to get are

4325
04:22:29,240 --> 04:22:32,040
Speaker 1: getting blackmailed, and the you know, the the US, the

4326
04:22:32,160 --> 04:22:35,080
Speaker 1: entire US security state loses mind and becomes convinced that

4327
04:22:35,200 --> 04:22:37,840
Speaker 1: like these people are all gonna become Soviet agents, and

4328
04:22:38,160 --> 04:22:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, and instead of like doing counseling that there's there.

4329
04:22:40,680 --> 04:22:43,160
Speaker 1: The thing that they do is they they do the

4330
04:22:43,240 --> 04:22:45,280
Speaker 1: Levender Scare and they start purging every gay person we

4331
04:22:45,320 --> 04:22:47,120
Speaker 1: can find from the entire US government. And it's like,

4332
04:22:48,040 --> 04:22:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's interesting that like, yeah, this

4333
04:22:51,000 --> 04:22:55,160
Speaker 1: is this is a guy in like late eighteen hundreds,

4334
04:22:55,240 --> 04:23:00,760
Speaker 1: early nine hundreds, like like literally ruled bay on arch Berlin,

4335
04:23:01,080 --> 04:23:04,400
Speaker 1: and his policies are enormously better than like anything you're

4336
04:23:04,400 --> 04:23:07,840
Speaker 1: going to see for like half a century. He's he

4337
04:23:08,000 --> 04:23:11,640
Speaker 1: is way more woke on on this than like any

4338
04:23:11,760 --> 04:23:16,560
Speaker 1: New York police officer for a century today up up

4339
04:23:16,600 --> 04:23:20,000
Speaker 1: to the present day in a lot of ways. Yeah,

4340
04:23:20,200 --> 04:23:23,640
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Magnus Hirshfeld a bit. Um. Hirshfield

4341
04:23:23,840 --> 04:23:26,280
Speaker 1: is very influenced by Ulrich, the guy we started the

4342
04:23:26,320 --> 04:23:30,120
Speaker 1: story with. His first like publication on the matter is

4343
04:23:30,160 --> 04:23:33,520
Speaker 1: called Sappho and Socrates in eighteen nineties six, which is

4344
04:23:33,560 --> 04:23:35,240
Speaker 1: again it's a story of a gay man who gets

4345
04:23:35,280 --> 04:23:38,640
Speaker 1: coerced into marriage, so this like uh and who commits

4346
04:23:38,640 --> 04:23:40,920
Speaker 1: suicide as a result. So there's like a big with

4347
04:23:41,120 --> 04:23:43,760
Speaker 1: both um, you know, his police commissioner with Hirshfeld, with

4348
04:23:43,760 --> 04:23:45,960
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are becoming activists in this period.

4349
04:23:46,240 --> 04:23:48,880
Speaker 1: A big part of why is, for one reason another

4350
04:23:49,000 --> 04:23:53,240
Speaker 1: the suicide rate among gay people, um, which is a

4351
04:23:53,360 --> 04:23:56,000
Speaker 1: huge problem today for for trans people in particular. And

4352
04:23:56,080 --> 04:23:58,960
Speaker 1: this is what it's interesting, like that that Utah governor,

4353
04:23:59,440 --> 04:24:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, May the announcement today that like he's vetoing

4354
04:24:02,880 --> 04:24:06,080
Speaker 1: this trans sports ban in Utah, and he specifically cites

4355
04:24:06,160 --> 04:24:09,680
Speaker 1: like the suicide rate among trans people is so like

4356
04:24:09,920 --> 04:24:13,920
Speaker 1: high and it he could not morally conscience doing anything

4357
04:24:14,000 --> 04:24:16,800
Speaker 1: that would like make these kids feel mothered and likelier

4358
04:24:16,840 --> 04:24:20,200
Speaker 1: to commit suicide. I mean, okay, well let's let's let's

4359
04:24:20,280 --> 04:24:22,440
Speaker 1: let's not go that far. He he he was, he

4360
04:24:22,520 --> 04:24:24,160
Speaker 1: was willing, he was willing to do the commissions. She

4361
04:24:24,200 --> 04:24:26,800
Speaker 1: just wasn't willing to do a full band. Yeah. I'm

4362
04:24:26,840 --> 04:24:29,440
Speaker 1: just saying the the justification he gives for what he's

4363
04:24:29,520 --> 04:24:33,240
Speaker 1: doing is like, um, is the rate of suicide at

4364
04:24:33,320 --> 04:24:36,480
Speaker 1: himps among trans people. Um. Not to like whitewash that

4365
04:24:36,560 --> 04:24:38,720
Speaker 1: guy or Utah. Like again, we've been doing this whole

4366
04:24:38,720 --> 04:24:41,480
Speaker 1: week's episodes, but it's interesting that you get um again.

4367
04:24:41,520 --> 04:24:44,120
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like the the issue for a

4368
04:24:44,200 --> 04:24:46,360
Speaker 1: long time has been that when you like other people

4369
04:24:46,520 --> 04:24:48,880
Speaker 1: and make it dangerous for them to be who they

4370
04:24:48,920 --> 04:24:52,480
Speaker 1: are openly, they will kill themselves. Um, a lot of

4371
04:24:52,520 --> 04:24:55,600
Speaker 1: them will. And that's that's a thing that is even

4372
04:24:55,680 --> 04:24:59,640
Speaker 1: by very problematic people in Germany in the eighteen nineties

4373
04:24:59,760 --> 04:25:02,880
Speaker 1: for recognize that, like this is a huge issue. Um.

4374
04:25:03,480 --> 04:25:07,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, Hirschfeld um starts this first organization that's like

4375
04:25:08,360 --> 04:25:11,160
Speaker 1: gay rights organization. Um. And he also is doing like

4376
04:25:11,240 --> 04:25:16,040
Speaker 1: a huge amount of of research. Um. He is fall again,

4377
04:25:16,080 --> 04:25:18,720
Speaker 1: he's following in l Ric's footsteps because he too believes

4378
04:25:18,800 --> 04:25:22,280
Speaker 1: that that homosexuality is congenital, right, it's something you're born with,

4379
04:25:22,440 --> 04:25:25,160
Speaker 1: as opposed to like a choice people make because of

4380
04:25:25,480 --> 04:25:28,160
Speaker 1: Devans or whatever, which is still the big fight that

4381
04:25:28,280 --> 04:25:31,080
Speaker 1: we're having to this day. And he's also like it's

4382
04:25:31,120 --> 04:25:33,680
Speaker 1: hard to there's a lot that like you can criticize

4383
04:25:33,680 --> 04:25:37,200
Speaker 1: about Hirschfeld scientifically, and a lot of the research he does,

4384
04:25:37,280 --> 04:25:41,000
Speaker 1: among other things, there's like difficulty with like control groups

4385
04:25:41,040 --> 04:25:44,720
Speaker 1: and actually like being the kind of scientific sort of

4386
04:25:44,840 --> 04:25:47,720
Speaker 1: detachment that is necessary to study that. There's like critiques

4387
04:25:48,360 --> 04:25:50,720
Speaker 1: of his of his research that are valid. But one

4388
04:25:50,760 --> 04:25:54,320
Speaker 1: of the he's he's really like, it's wild how far

4389
04:25:54,400 --> 04:25:56,200
Speaker 1: ahead of the Curvey is because one of the things

4390
04:25:56,280 --> 04:25:59,680
Speaker 1: that Hirschfeld introduces is the idea that sexuality is a

4391
04:26:00,000 --> 04:26:04,200
Speaker 1: actrum um, where there's what he calls sexual intermediaries between

4392
04:26:04,400 --> 04:26:07,200
Speaker 1: male and female. Um. He doesn't believe that like those

4393
04:26:07,200 --> 04:26:09,840
Speaker 1: are even particularly useful terms that sexuality kind of like

4394
04:26:10,320 --> 04:26:12,720
Speaker 1: it it again, that it's a spectrum, which is this

4395
04:26:12,840 --> 04:26:15,800
Speaker 1: thing that we are just now really starting to have

4396
04:26:16,280 --> 04:26:21,040
Speaker 1: good wider kind of ranging conversations about today. Um. And

4397
04:26:21,240 --> 04:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Hirschfeld is very much like kind of utopian and his

4398
04:26:24,320 --> 04:26:30,040
Speaker 1: belief that if you can scientifically study and understand where

4399
04:26:30,560 --> 04:26:33,000
Speaker 1: homose like what homosexuality is, and that it is an

4400
04:26:33,000 --> 04:26:36,240
Speaker 1: innate characteristic, that people will stop being bigoted against gay

4401
04:26:36,280 --> 04:26:38,960
Speaker 1: folks right, Like his his belief is that science will

4402
04:26:39,080 --> 04:26:42,200
Speaker 1: end prejudice, um, just because the German people are so

4403
04:26:42,360 --> 04:26:44,680
Speaker 1: scientific and like they'll have to accept this if I

4404
04:26:44,720 --> 04:26:50,760
Speaker 1: could just like prove it with enough rigor, which is heartbreaking, um,

4405
04:26:50,960 --> 04:26:55,200
Speaker 1: heartbreaking that he was very very wrong. Um. And yeah,

4406
04:26:55,200 --> 04:26:57,080
Speaker 1: there's a number of things that are like really worth

4407
04:26:57,240 --> 04:27:01,560
Speaker 1: kind of within sort of the because he's not he's

4408
04:27:01,600 --> 04:27:03,400
Speaker 1: kind of come down now is this sort of um

4409
04:27:04,240 --> 04:27:07,040
Speaker 1: like sainting like hero of the gay rights movement for

4410
04:27:07,120 --> 04:27:09,400
Speaker 1: good reason, but that does tend to flatten the fact

4411
04:27:09,440 --> 04:27:12,120
Speaker 1: that within his his day and within kind of the

4412
04:27:12,200 --> 04:27:14,600
Speaker 1: gay culture in Berlin in particular, there were a lot

4413
04:27:14,640 --> 04:27:16,760
Speaker 1: of people who were frustrated with him for a lot

4414
04:27:16,840 --> 04:27:20,720
Speaker 1: of reasons. Um, there were a lot of Uh So

4415
04:27:20,840 --> 04:27:24,040
Speaker 1: there's this there's this split in gay culture in this

4416
04:27:24,200 --> 04:27:27,600
Speaker 1: period of time between um, gay men who are seen

4417
04:27:27,680 --> 04:27:31,480
Speaker 1: as more effeminate and what are called the masculinists. Um

4418
04:27:31,680 --> 04:27:35,680
Speaker 1: and the masculinists. They are not all or even mostly Nazis,

4419
04:27:35,920 --> 04:27:39,640
Speaker 1: but all of the gay Nazis are what you'd call masculinists, right,

4420
04:27:39,960 --> 04:27:43,280
Speaker 1: who are like, I'm not having like like like I

4421
04:27:43,400 --> 04:27:45,640
Speaker 1: am so manly that the only person I can have

4422
04:27:45,760 --> 04:27:48,160
Speaker 1: sex with as a man, right, Like that I'm flattening

4423
04:27:48,240 --> 04:27:50,520
Speaker 1: even that quite a bit. But like you have guys

4424
04:27:50,640 --> 04:27:53,160
Speaker 1: like um Ernst Rome, who is the head of the

4425
04:27:53,240 --> 04:27:56,640
Speaker 1: Brown Shirts and is is a is a gay Nazi

4426
04:27:56,840 --> 04:27:59,080
Speaker 1: and is like that's that's a significant, not an insignificant

4427
04:27:59,160 --> 04:28:00,920
Speaker 1: chunk of the Nazis. They'll murdered in the Night of

4428
04:28:01,000 --> 04:28:04,600
Speaker 1: Long Knives. And it is interesting that that Rome was

4429
04:28:04,760 --> 04:28:08,160
Speaker 1: outed by anti fascists. Yeah, he sure, like two years

4430
04:28:08,240 --> 04:28:10,480
Speaker 1: before he was murdered, and it was it was it

4431
04:28:10,600 --> 04:28:13,880
Speaker 1: was trying he was specifically outed to so division within

4432
04:28:13,920 --> 04:28:16,720
Speaker 1: the Nazi party. Yes, and that does like also just

4433
04:28:16,800 --> 04:28:18,480
Speaker 1: playing it. You know, you're you're you're talking about like,

4434
04:28:18,840 --> 04:28:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, people having debate over whether it's okay to

4435
04:28:21,640 --> 04:28:24,600
Speaker 1: out somebody, um if they you know, are part of

4436
04:28:24,680 --> 04:28:27,880
Speaker 1: that Organization's right. That was something we mentioned previously And yeah,

4437
04:28:28,040 --> 04:28:32,040
Speaker 1: just like an interesting historical tidbit. Yeah, and it's it's

4438
04:28:32,240 --> 04:28:36,760
Speaker 1: um so uh again amongst like, one of the things

4439
04:28:36,840 --> 04:28:39,800
Speaker 1: that the masculinists are doing is like a lot of

4440
04:28:39,880 --> 04:28:42,120
Speaker 1: them are married to women and they're they're actually fine

4441
04:28:42,200 --> 04:28:43,800
Speaker 1: with this because again they think that like, well you

4442
04:28:43,880 --> 04:28:46,680
Speaker 1: still need to like procreate and have like not it's

4443
04:28:46,680 --> 04:28:48,960
Speaker 1: not even all just about being having like a beard

4444
04:28:49,040 --> 04:28:50,360
Speaker 1: or whatever you wanna call it. Some of it is

4445
04:28:50,400 --> 04:28:52,960
Speaker 1: just like this attitude that you have a responsibility to

4446
04:28:53,080 --> 04:28:55,920
Speaker 1: make more Germans for the fatherland. But like then when

4447
04:28:55,960 --> 04:28:58,640
Speaker 1: it comes to it's kind of like the Greeks, they

4448
04:28:58,680 --> 04:29:01,000
Speaker 1: were not wildly dissimilar concepts and a lot of the

4449
04:29:01,120 --> 04:29:05,040
Speaker 1: masculinists ideologically are wrapped up in the work of Max S.

4450
04:29:05,080 --> 04:29:08,400
Speaker 1: Turner Um and in fact, like the self owners, that

4451
04:29:08,520 --> 04:29:13,480
Speaker 1: first gay magazine that was. I was like, oh, that

4452
04:29:13,520 --> 04:29:15,960
Speaker 1: sounds like stars egoism. Ye, yes, yeah, there's a lot

4453
04:29:16,040 --> 04:29:18,280
Speaker 1: of that going and we we we again. I went

4454
04:29:18,320 --> 04:29:20,480
Speaker 1: to at some point provide a lot more detail on

4455
04:29:20,560 --> 04:29:24,000
Speaker 1: this because it's it's all fascinating. Um. But there there

4456
04:29:24,040 --> 04:29:26,560
Speaker 1: are these big sort of like this big split and

4457
04:29:26,600 --> 04:29:29,320
Speaker 1: there's he gets a lot of ship from the masculinists

4458
04:29:29,480 --> 04:29:32,240
Speaker 1: for because he also studies lesbians heavily. Like there's a

4459
04:29:32,280 --> 04:29:35,240
Speaker 1: decent chunk of the gay male population in Berlin who's

4460
04:29:35,280 --> 04:29:38,080
Speaker 1: against the research in the medical practice he's doing to

4461
04:29:38,160 --> 04:29:40,640
Speaker 1: help trans people who was against his research on lesbians

4462
04:29:40,640 --> 04:29:43,160
Speaker 1: because they're like, well, this is this is the fight, right,

4463
04:29:43,240 --> 04:29:46,160
Speaker 1: like we're the ones who are being legally cracked down

4464
04:29:46,240 --> 04:29:48,640
Speaker 1: on or whatever. Like. Um. So there's a bunch of

4465
04:29:48,760 --> 04:29:52,480
Speaker 1: like different cleavages and fractures kind of within the community

4466
04:29:52,560 --> 04:29:55,840
Speaker 1: at this time in Hirschfeld is not universally beloved and

4467
04:29:55,960 --> 04:29:58,040
Speaker 1: there are people kind of within the gay community who

4468
04:29:58,120 --> 04:30:00,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of issues with him. Um. And I

4469
04:30:00,200 --> 04:30:02,560
Speaker 1: just think it's important to note that because we often

4470
04:30:02,680 --> 04:30:06,680
Speaker 1: do again kind of flattened things because the Nazis flattened things, right,

4471
04:30:06,680 --> 04:30:08,600
Speaker 1: because these were all it was all the same to them.

4472
04:30:09,280 --> 04:30:12,080
Speaker 1: Um and and we often flatten them in a different

4473
04:30:12,160 --> 04:30:14,200
Speaker 1: way to where like, yeah, you've got this guy and

4474
04:30:14,320 --> 04:30:17,360
Speaker 1: he's the he's the hero of the of the of

4475
04:30:17,520 --> 04:30:20,520
Speaker 1: gay Berlin, and he's this like thoroughly positive. No, there

4476
04:30:20,560 --> 04:30:22,000
Speaker 1: were a lot of people who hated him for like

4477
04:30:22,080 --> 04:30:24,760
Speaker 1: all these different reasons because this was uh, these like

4478
04:30:24,920 --> 04:30:27,760
Speaker 1: all people had a million different kind of fractures and

4479
04:30:27,840 --> 04:30:32,400
Speaker 1: ideologies sort of running within. Um what what someone who

4480
04:30:32,600 --> 04:30:35,000
Speaker 1: was not looking in from the outside would have just

4481
04:30:35,080 --> 04:30:40,040
Speaker 1: called gay Berlin, you know. Um And yeah, obviously this

4482
04:30:40,200 --> 04:30:44,080
Speaker 1: all falls apart or is cracked down horribly when the

4483
04:30:44,160 --> 04:30:47,320
Speaker 1: Nazis come to power. Um, Hirshfeld is doing a lot

4484
04:30:47,400 --> 04:30:49,640
Speaker 1: of some of them, I mean, all of the very

4485
04:30:49,720 --> 04:30:52,800
Speaker 1: earliest research on like what it is to be transgender,

4486
04:30:52,880 --> 04:30:56,600
Speaker 1: and he is performing surgery on like gender operations on

4487
04:30:56,720 --> 04:31:00,320
Speaker 1: on trans for the very first time. Um. And and

4488
04:31:00,480 --> 04:31:04,960
Speaker 1: that gets all kind of destroyed. In in May of

4489
04:31:05,080 --> 04:31:07,680
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, which is about three months after Hitler

4490
04:31:07,720 --> 04:31:12,480
Speaker 1: becomes Reich's chancellor. Uh, Nazis sack Hirschfeld Institute for Sexual Science.

4491
04:31:12,840 --> 04:31:16,360
Speaker 1: They burn its library. Um, they go after a lot

4492
04:31:16,440 --> 04:31:18,400
Speaker 1: of of of his of the people he had been

4493
04:31:18,440 --> 04:31:21,280
Speaker 1: working with and on are killed, others have to flee. Um.

4494
04:31:21,400 --> 04:31:24,080
Speaker 1: Hirschfeld is thankfully out of the country on tour when

4495
04:31:24,120 --> 04:31:27,200
Speaker 1: the Nazis rise to power and just you know, doesn't

4496
04:31:27,360 --> 04:31:33,120
Speaker 1: come back. Um he sees he watches his institute get

4497
04:31:33,200 --> 04:31:35,280
Speaker 1: burned and all of his his research get burned and

4498
04:31:35,720 --> 04:31:41,360
Speaker 1: a newsreel in Paris. Uh, and he dies the next year. Um. Yeah,

4499
04:31:41,640 --> 04:31:47,960
Speaker 1: So that's the that's the the broad details of kind

4500
04:31:48,000 --> 04:31:51,160
Speaker 1: of the story of this early period um of of

4501
04:31:51,280 --> 04:31:53,000
Speaker 1: the birth of kind of like a lot of our

4502
04:31:53,160 --> 04:31:57,280
Speaker 1: our legal fights around you know, gay rights and like

4503
04:31:57,400 --> 04:32:00,040
Speaker 1: the birth of kind of Western gay identity, Like this

4504
04:32:00,160 --> 04:32:04,000
Speaker 1: is where it comes from and and uh yeah, there's

4505
04:32:04,000 --> 04:32:06,200
Speaker 1: a lot that's important and understanding this. And this is

4506
04:32:06,360 --> 04:32:09,080
Speaker 1: one of the points that gets made in Gaberlin. We

4507
04:32:09,200 --> 04:32:12,760
Speaker 1: often see the Weimar years as this kind of inevitable

4508
04:32:12,840 --> 04:32:16,080
Speaker 1: march towards fascism, and the reality is that there was

4509
04:32:17,680 --> 04:32:23,000
Speaker 1: fifty something years of of incredibly progressive movements on on

4510
04:32:23,160 --> 04:32:26,680
Speaker 1: gender and sexuality. Um. And you know, even outside of

4511
04:32:26,720 --> 04:32:29,200
Speaker 1: gay rights, just in terms of like attitudes towards democracy

4512
04:32:29,280 --> 04:32:31,680
Speaker 1: and attitudes towards the nature of like the state, that

4513
04:32:31,800 --> 04:32:35,360
Speaker 1: we're very progressive and very powerful and very popular. Um.

4514
04:32:35,880 --> 04:32:38,040
Speaker 1: And they do get you know, it's important to understand

4515
04:32:38,080 --> 04:32:42,160
Speaker 1: both that, like the Nazism was not inevitable, the regressive

4516
04:32:42,240 --> 04:32:46,680
Speaker 1: ism and the violence and the the the like, that

4517
04:32:47,400 --> 04:32:50,440
Speaker 1: kind of flattening of human life under the Fascists was

4518
04:32:50,520 --> 04:32:54,280
Speaker 1: not an inevitable progression for Germany. Um. But it's equally

4519
04:32:54,560 --> 04:32:57,880
Speaker 1: important to understand that like a tremendous so much progress

4520
04:32:57,960 --> 04:33:00,400
Speaker 1: had been made in German culture by the of time.

4521
04:33:00,400 --> 04:33:03,000
Speaker 1: When the Nazis rise and it does get wiped out,

4522
04:33:03,360 --> 04:33:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, it does not recover right away. It's still

4523
04:33:06,160 --> 04:33:10,560
Speaker 1: recovering now, still now, yeah, exactly. Um. And in fact,

4524
04:33:10,720 --> 04:33:13,920
Speaker 1: one of the groups of people when when the Allies

4525
04:33:14,000 --> 04:33:18,360
Speaker 1: liberate the concentration camps, we don't free imprisoned gay people.

4526
04:33:18,759 --> 04:33:22,640
Speaker 1: They go back to prison because what they were doing

4527
04:33:22,759 --> 04:33:25,800
Speaker 1: was still seen as criminal. If you have the is

4528
04:33:25,840 --> 04:33:29,360
Speaker 1: the pink triangle, you don't just get out because the Nazis,

4529
04:33:29,400 --> 04:33:31,680
Speaker 1: because you were in a concentration gap with these other people.

4530
04:33:31,720 --> 04:33:34,400
Speaker 1: Because the Allies to a large extenter like well that

4531
04:33:34,600 --> 04:33:37,879
Speaker 1: was it was okay for them to punish those people. Anyway.

4532
04:33:38,240 --> 04:33:42,040
Speaker 1: That's the story. Not Another interesting thing is that kind

4533
04:33:42,040 --> 04:33:44,160
Speaker 1: of on the same note is that if you look

4534
04:33:44,200 --> 04:33:49,040
Speaker 1: through all old um German war photography from World War Two,

4535
04:33:49,640 --> 04:33:52,560
Speaker 1: you will actually see a higher than average rate of

4536
04:33:53,400 --> 04:33:57,759
Speaker 1: men cross dressing inside photos. Now, there's always cross dressing

4537
04:33:57,840 --> 04:34:01,680
Speaker 1: during war is not uncommon, especially during the performances for

4538
04:34:01,800 --> 04:34:04,520
Speaker 1: like theater and stuff, um, because there's not as much

4539
04:34:04,560 --> 04:34:09,480
Speaker 1: women around. But specifically comparing like the documentation of the

4540
04:34:09,600 --> 04:34:12,840
Speaker 1: Nazis and all of all of the German soldiers, there

4541
04:34:12,960 --> 04:34:16,480
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, absolutely higher than average amount of of

4542
04:34:16,680 --> 04:34:20,560
Speaker 1: people comfortable cross dressing despite you know, being a soldier

4543
04:34:20,600 --> 04:34:23,800
Speaker 1: for the Nazis. Um it is. And it's like, yeah,

4544
04:34:23,840 --> 04:34:26,800
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing in terms of how how some

4545
04:34:26,919 --> 04:34:30,280
Speaker 1: of those kind of more advanced US and sexuality still

4546
04:34:30,320 --> 04:34:33,480
Speaker 1: carried over um at least like in terms of like

4547
04:34:33,560 --> 04:34:37,480
Speaker 1: gender presentation among you know, even even if you fear

4548
04:34:37,520 --> 04:34:41,680
Speaker 1: among this genocidal group who's imprisoning gay people by the

4549
04:34:41,759 --> 04:34:44,760
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands. Um, it's it just it just it

4550
04:34:44,880 --> 04:34:47,760
Speaker 1: just it just it just like kept happening. Yeah. It

4551
04:34:47,840 --> 04:34:51,680
Speaker 1: also sort of points to just like how bad everywhere

4552
04:34:51,759 --> 04:34:58,880
Speaker 1: else was also, Yeah, like it's yeah, Berlin just got

4553
04:34:59,000 --> 04:35:04,720
Speaker 1: so regressive that even when suppressed, there was enough like

4554
04:35:05,240 --> 04:35:08,840
Speaker 1: stuff there that things could kind of there was there

4555
04:35:09,080 --> 04:35:11,000
Speaker 1: was still there was still a bit there's was still

4556
04:35:11,040 --> 04:35:14,240
Speaker 1: a bit of some remnants. Um. And I mean and

4557
04:35:14,320 --> 04:35:16,920
Speaker 1: it still it got it did get horribly obliterated, and

4558
04:35:17,120 --> 04:35:19,840
Speaker 1: and we're still recovering now in terms of our views

4559
04:35:19,919 --> 04:35:25,199
Speaker 1: and medical knowledge on like gender and you know, social contructs, um, susuality,

4560
04:35:25,360 --> 04:35:27,920
Speaker 1: you know, all all this kind of stuff. Um. But yeah,

4561
04:35:28,000 --> 04:35:33,239
Speaker 1: the German law code that made homosexuality illegal, um again

4562
04:35:33,360 --> 04:35:36,720
Speaker 1: after it was briefly more okay than it had been,

4563
04:35:37,080 --> 04:35:41,160
Speaker 1: doesn't get repealed until Yeah. I mean a lot of

4564
04:35:41,320 --> 04:35:44,239
Speaker 1: a lot of sodomy laws do not get repealed until

4565
04:35:44,280 --> 04:35:47,240
Speaker 1: the nineties, and a lot of cases they're actually still around,

4566
04:35:47,440 --> 04:35:50,200
Speaker 1: we just don't enforce them, like a lot of this,

4567
04:35:50,320 --> 04:35:52,160
Speaker 1: a lot of laws that are actually just still just

4568
04:35:52,640 --> 04:35:56,360
Speaker 1: hanging out. Texas had anti sodomy laws on the book

4569
04:35:56,480 --> 04:36:01,320
Speaker 1: until a two thousand three Supreme Court case, Yeah, and

4570
04:36:01,640 --> 04:36:04,880
Speaker 1: invalidated all sodomy laws. Right, That's that's why there's something.

4571
04:36:04,919 --> 04:36:07,960
Speaker 1: They're still in the books, but they but they're now invalid. Yeah,

4572
04:36:08,120 --> 04:36:15,120
Speaker 1: prosecute people, um yeah. Yeah. Feld was pretty based though,

4573
04:36:15,280 --> 04:36:18,440
Speaker 1: so it was fucking rix some pretty based this really

4574
04:36:18,480 --> 04:36:20,320
Speaker 1: interesting stuff and then that's why we wanted to talk

4575
04:36:20,320 --> 04:36:23,200
Speaker 1: about this, is to kind of show the historical background

4576
04:36:23,280 --> 04:36:25,000
Speaker 1: and show like there's a precedent for all of the

4577
04:36:25,080 --> 04:36:28,880
Speaker 1: same stuff happening before. Um, and you know, there's ways

4578
04:36:28,919 --> 04:36:30,920
Speaker 1: people have fought fought against it back then who didn't

4579
04:36:30,960 --> 04:36:36,320
Speaker 1: necessarily succeed, but also did have a lot of progression

4580
04:36:36,400 --> 04:36:39,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of like views socially on these types

4581
04:36:39,360 --> 04:36:41,919
Speaker 1: of topics. You know, you just need to make sure

4582
04:36:41,960 --> 04:36:46,079
Speaker 1: that you're also very very aware of of the rise

4583
04:36:46,120 --> 04:36:48,199
Speaker 1: of fascism and being also counter that as well, because

4584
04:36:48,560 --> 04:36:50,000
Speaker 1: they can just do so much damage in such a

4585
04:36:50,040 --> 04:36:54,480
Speaker 1: shorthort amount of time, despite you know, fifty years of progress. Yeah. Yeah,

4586
04:36:54,560 --> 04:36:59,880
Speaker 1: and I think I think understanding their fragility of every

4587
04:37:00,000 --> 04:37:03,080
Speaker 1: thing that exists that I don't know. I mean, there's

4588
04:37:03,200 --> 04:37:04,880
Speaker 1: this is you know, one of one of the sort

4589
04:37:04,880 --> 04:37:07,840
Speaker 1: of American mythosis, right is that like the moral arc

4590
04:37:07,880 --> 04:37:10,640
Speaker 1: of the universe bens towards progress, then everything is getting better.

4591
04:37:10,720 --> 04:37:14,960
Speaker 1: And that's not true. Nope, it's not. And like everyvery

4592
04:37:15,000 --> 04:37:17,239
Speaker 1: everything good that you see in this world is there

4593
04:37:17,280 --> 04:37:20,600
Speaker 1: because people fought for it. Yeah, and if they lose

4594
04:37:20,759 --> 04:37:25,200
Speaker 1: it all goes away. Yeah, yeah, we we we absolutely

4595
04:37:25,280 --> 04:37:27,000
Speaker 1: could go back. It's like you have that I mean,

4596
04:37:27,040 --> 04:37:30,960
Speaker 1: he back pedaled, but you have that Republican uh legislator

4597
04:37:31,000 --> 04:37:35,520
Speaker 1: who was like, um, making comments about how he didn't

4598
04:37:35,600 --> 04:37:39,759
Speaker 1: think the state should be forced to honor interracial marriages. Um.

4599
04:37:40,919 --> 04:37:42,920
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, there's people who want to go

4600
04:37:43,040 --> 04:37:45,720
Speaker 1: back on all of that stuff, and they could do it.

4601
04:37:45,880 --> 04:37:48,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't even and it doesn't matter. I like when

4602
04:37:48,520 --> 04:37:52,120
Speaker 1: people criticize kind of like some of the the attitudes

4603
04:37:52,160 --> 04:37:55,200
Speaker 1: we have, the fear we have towards this, Especially on

4604
04:37:55,360 --> 04:37:57,400
Speaker 1: on the subreddit, I've seen people be like, well, look,

4605
04:37:57,640 --> 04:38:00,760
Speaker 1: these are not popular laws, and it doesn't matter. They

4606
04:38:00,800 --> 04:38:03,960
Speaker 1: weren't absolutely they weren't as popular. They weren't like necessarily

4607
04:38:04,040 --> 04:38:06,960
Speaker 1: all that popular in in in Germany, you know, when

4608
04:38:07,040 --> 04:38:09,120
Speaker 1: some like a lot of the thing not specifically even

4609
04:38:09,120 --> 04:38:11,080
Speaker 1: talking about what was done to gay people, but a

4610
04:38:11,120 --> 04:38:12,879
Speaker 1: lot of the things that were done by the Nazis

4611
04:38:13,120 --> 04:38:18,000
Speaker 1: were not necessarily popular. It doesn't matter. What matters is power,

4612
04:38:18,680 --> 04:38:20,880
Speaker 1: And this like plays into how like what's is worth

4613
04:38:20,919 --> 04:38:24,600
Speaker 1: focusing on on electoralism and being like, yeah, these laws

4614
04:38:24,680 --> 04:38:28,160
Speaker 1: obviously aren't being uh pushed as far in blue states

4615
04:38:28,200 --> 04:38:31,560
Speaker 1: because there's not enough electoral power there, but that doesn't

4616
04:38:31,640 --> 04:38:34,600
Speaker 1: mean that we can flip Texas blue if we will

4617
04:38:34,680 --> 04:38:37,600
Speaker 1: it into being Like, there's so many other cultural factors

4618
04:38:38,080 --> 04:38:41,000
Speaker 1: that are keeping red states red, and yes, of course,

4619
04:38:41,040 --> 04:38:43,800
Speaker 1: ability suppression, all of those things, gerry mandering, all these

4620
04:38:43,840 --> 04:38:48,080
Speaker 1: things are contributing factors. But the overall political bent of

4621
04:38:48,160 --> 04:38:50,840
Speaker 1: those states right now seems to be pretty firm because

4622
04:38:50,840 --> 04:38:53,560
Speaker 1: there's so many people invested in maintaining that power. So

4623
04:38:53,600 --> 04:38:56,120
Speaker 1: when we complain about kind of how electoralism is not

4624
04:38:56,880 --> 04:39:01,400
Speaker 1: often a super reliable solution to securing these things over

4625
04:39:01,440 --> 04:39:04,040
Speaker 1: the long stretches of time, it's more kind of talking

4626
04:39:04,120 --> 04:39:07,240
Speaker 1: about that because even though we have you know, democrats

4627
04:39:07,280 --> 04:39:09,600
Speaker 1: and power in the executive branch, and they you know,

4628
04:39:09,720 --> 04:39:12,879
Speaker 1: make statements about trying to secure things, they make, they

4629
04:39:12,960 --> 04:39:15,720
Speaker 1: make some gestures, they follow through, and those things is

4630
04:39:15,720 --> 04:39:22,640
Speaker 1: always so minimum and so bare um, and there's it's

4631
04:39:22,680 --> 04:39:25,680
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's the thing that like Trump was

4632
04:39:25,720 --> 04:39:28,560
Speaker 1: able to do so much um and now we have

4633
04:39:28,880 --> 04:39:33,000
Speaker 1: Biden so less willing to use executive powers. Is the

4634
04:39:33,080 --> 04:39:35,280
Speaker 1: same thing that like like with with with Obama and

4635
04:39:35,360 --> 04:39:38,440
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, when the Senate would refuse to put

4636
04:39:38,520 --> 04:39:42,080
Speaker 1: through any any candidates Obama technically had the power could

4637
04:39:42,200 --> 04:39:44,280
Speaker 1: because the Senate refused to do to do their job.

4638
04:39:45,400 --> 04:39:47,600
Speaker 1: There is a very strong argument that Obama could just

4639
04:39:47,680 --> 04:39:50,520
Speaker 1: put someone into the Supreme Court because of the failure

4640
04:39:50,600 --> 04:39:52,920
Speaker 1: of what the Senate was doing was specifically doing a

4641
04:39:53,040 --> 04:39:55,400
Speaker 1: thing that meant because they were not doing the job

4642
04:39:55,520 --> 04:39:57,680
Speaker 1: at all, that he can't get he can't get fully

4643
04:39:57,759 --> 04:40:01,280
Speaker 1: put through and we so we could have. That could

4644
04:40:01,320 --> 04:40:04,880
Speaker 1: have happened, and Obama just didn't because you know, you

4645
04:40:04,960 --> 04:40:06,559
Speaker 1: want to play. You want to be the good guy,

4646
04:40:06,640 --> 04:40:08,520
Speaker 1: like you want to be the person who follows the rules.

4647
04:40:08,759 --> 04:40:10,560
Speaker 1: But the other side doesn't care about that. They're not

4648
04:40:10,680 --> 04:40:13,480
Speaker 1: playing a genuine game. They're not following the rules. They're

4649
04:40:13,480 --> 04:40:15,840
Speaker 1: doing whatever they can to win. So this this isn't

4650
04:40:15,840 --> 04:40:18,720
Speaker 1: about being plugged into lefty Twitter. I get almost I

4651
04:40:18,759 --> 04:40:21,240
Speaker 1: get almost none of my takes from lefty Twitter. I

4652
04:40:21,320 --> 04:40:24,559
Speaker 1: get them from like reading reading stuff and thinking about

4653
04:40:24,840 --> 04:40:27,280
Speaker 1: how electoralism affects all of these issues and where to

4654
04:40:27,480 --> 04:40:30,520
Speaker 1: focus my attention because no matter what I say or

4655
04:40:30,560 --> 04:40:33,200
Speaker 1: what I do, that's not going to affect whether Texas

4656
04:40:33,280 --> 04:40:36,240
Speaker 1: is blew a red Yeah, and there's this I think

4657
04:40:36,320 --> 04:40:39,800
Speaker 1: like one of the things that is an argument against Obama.

4658
04:40:39,960 --> 04:40:42,080
Speaker 1: You know, intervening in that way is like, well, that

4659
04:40:42,120 --> 04:40:45,160
Speaker 1: would have created precedent that would have like further centralized

4660
04:40:45,200 --> 04:40:48,560
Speaker 1: executive power and could have been used by their refused

4661
04:40:48,600 --> 04:40:51,800
Speaker 1: to do their job. Yeah, but you know, I mean,

4662
04:40:51,880 --> 04:40:54,040
Speaker 1: look at what we got. Look at the Supreme Court

4663
04:40:54,120 --> 04:40:55,880
Speaker 1: that we have, which now has a six to three

4664
04:40:55,919 --> 04:40:59,640
Speaker 1: bent conservatively. There was just another fucking shadow ruling today

4665
04:40:59,720 --> 04:41:06,120
Speaker 1: that is, um about jerrymandering, and god, I was Wisconsin.

4666
04:41:06,400 --> 04:41:08,760
Speaker 1: Um one second, I'll look it up. But yeah, like

4667
04:41:08,919 --> 04:41:13,640
Speaker 1: you're you're getting like we're we're already living through that scenario. Um,

4668
04:41:13,919 --> 04:41:17,120
Speaker 1: And it's like like this I meantime, terms of centralation

4669
04:41:17,160 --> 04:41:20,640
Speaker 1: to power, like Obama claimed the legal authority to kill

4670
04:41:20,759 --> 04:41:23,879
Speaker 1: any man, woman, or child, regardless of their citizenship as

4671
04:41:23,919 --> 04:41:26,200
Speaker 1: as a US citizen without trial moment they left the

4672
04:41:26,280 --> 04:41:28,800
Speaker 1: United States Like that that is that is the that

4673
04:41:28,919 --> 04:41:32,680
Speaker 1: is the authority that he claimed, like when you know,

4674
04:41:33,080 --> 04:41:35,520
Speaker 1: in order to introder to run the drone assassination program.

4675
04:41:36,200 --> 04:41:39,120
Speaker 1: And it's yeah, so like at that point, like yeah, okay,

4676
04:41:39,160 --> 04:41:41,240
Speaker 1: we we we literally have a person who can go

4677
04:41:41,600 --> 04:41:43,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to press a button and kill you, like

4678
04:41:45,520 --> 04:41:48,960
Speaker 1: like we might centralize before, Like it's just I mean,

4679
04:41:49,040 --> 04:41:51,160
Speaker 1: it's it's not even a centralization because it was specifically

4680
04:41:51,200 --> 04:41:53,720
Speaker 1: within the context of the Senate not doing their job. Um,

4681
04:41:54,080 --> 04:41:55,960
Speaker 1: and I kind of all places into like it seems

4682
04:41:56,000 --> 04:41:59,200
Speaker 1: like Democrats are more politically successful when they're losing, Like

4683
04:41:59,520 --> 04:42:01,840
Speaker 1: it seems like they want the other side to be

4684
04:42:01,960 --> 04:42:04,039
Speaker 1: in power because that's when they actually do things politically.

4685
04:42:04,360 --> 04:42:06,280
Speaker 1: Then when they have power, they're just so scared to

4686
04:42:06,400 --> 04:42:08,200
Speaker 1: use it that they don't even do anything to really

4687
04:42:08,240 --> 04:42:09,760
Speaker 1: help people that much. And and and I mean, this

4688
04:42:09,880 --> 04:42:11,840
Speaker 1: is the other thing is that like, yeah, the Democrats

4689
04:42:11,960 --> 04:42:16,960
Speaker 1: like like most of their their actual constitute like they

4690
04:42:17,000 --> 04:42:20,080
Speaker 1: have they have two constituencies, right, they have like you know,

4691
04:42:20,160 --> 04:42:23,240
Speaker 1: they have the people they're passing tax breaks for, and

4692
04:42:23,320 --> 04:42:25,000
Speaker 1: then they have a bunch of they have a bunch

4693
04:42:25,080 --> 04:42:28,680
Speaker 1: of consultants. And the consultants like the thing that they

4694
04:42:28,759 --> 04:42:31,040
Speaker 1: care about is campaign donations, right, because that's how they

4695
04:42:31,080 --> 04:42:34,400
Speaker 1: get paid. And yeah, hey, guess what happens when you're

4696
04:42:34,440 --> 04:42:36,440
Speaker 1: in power. Oh, people don't give you any people don't

4697
04:42:36,440 --> 04:42:37,720
Speaker 1: give you much money. That this is this is this

4698
04:42:37,759 --> 04:42:40,399
Speaker 1: is a problem the program into in the eighties. They

4699
04:42:40,480 --> 04:42:43,000
Speaker 1: get more power when they're they get more money when

4700
04:42:43,000 --> 04:42:45,200
Speaker 1: they're not in power because then they're trying to organize

4701
04:42:45,240 --> 04:42:47,280
Speaker 1: to get in power. But then once they're in there,

4702
04:42:47,320 --> 04:42:49,759
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, wow, you're not really using the same

4703
04:42:49,840 --> 04:42:52,120
Speaker 1: power capabilities that the other side does when they're in

4704
04:42:52,240 --> 04:42:56,000
Speaker 1: charge and they're all willing to play dirty politically and

4705
04:42:56,600 --> 04:42:59,480
Speaker 1: we and for some reason that Democrats are not. That

4706
04:42:59,680 --> 04:43:01,440
Speaker 1: is kind of they don't like this something like they

4707
04:43:01,520 --> 04:43:03,520
Speaker 1: don't actually care about any of this stuff, right, The

4708
04:43:03,600 --> 04:43:06,039
Speaker 1: stuff is useful for them in terms of fundraising, right,

4709
04:43:06,080 --> 04:43:08,600
Speaker 1: but it's like, yeah, I don't know, Like they don't

4710
04:43:08,680 --> 04:43:11,079
Speaker 1: like if if every trans person in the United States

4711
04:43:11,200 --> 04:43:13,680
Speaker 1: was killed, right, the Democrats would be sad for a

4712
04:43:13,720 --> 04:43:16,120
Speaker 1: little bit, and then they wouldn't move on. Like it's

4713
04:43:16,160 --> 04:43:18,919
Speaker 1: not that's that's that's not a thing that if you're

4714
04:43:18,960 --> 04:43:21,480
Speaker 1: in a hard blue state, we know, what's more important

4715
04:43:21,520 --> 04:43:25,440
Speaker 1: than actually voting for supportive like this kind of stuff

4716
04:43:25,680 --> 04:43:27,720
Speaker 1: is actually just giving trans people money like that is

4717
04:43:27,720 --> 04:43:30,720
Speaker 1: gonna have much more of a positive political effect. It's

4718
04:43:30,759 --> 04:43:32,880
Speaker 1: just give trans people money. Whenever you see a go

4719
04:43:32,960 --> 04:43:35,200
Speaker 1: fund me for a trans person, donate to that instead.

4720
04:43:35,320 --> 04:43:38,600
Speaker 1: That's gonna have a much more uh lasting effect. Than

4721
04:43:38,840 --> 04:43:42,000
Speaker 1: voting if you're in you know, New York or if

4722
04:43:42,040 --> 04:43:44,760
Speaker 1: you're in Oregon, right, because like that those states are

4723
04:43:44,800 --> 04:43:47,840
Speaker 1: they're they're gonna be blue. That's always gonna happen, um,

4724
04:43:48,600 --> 04:43:54,840
Speaker 1: But other states like uh, like I Texas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Alabama,

4725
04:43:54,960 --> 04:43:57,440
Speaker 1: like these are gonna be red states like there's and

4726
04:43:58,000 --> 04:44:00,080
Speaker 1: as much as we would be nice if yeah, if

4727
04:44:00,080 --> 04:44:04,240
Speaker 1: democratic senators and and people in the House we're in

4728
04:44:04,360 --> 04:44:06,600
Speaker 1: there instead, then yeah, these transpiles probably wouldn't be happening

4729
04:44:06,640 --> 04:44:10,520
Speaker 1: as much. But that's not gonna happen. So if that's

4730
04:44:10,560 --> 04:44:12,200
Speaker 1: not going to happen, we should focus on other ways

4731
04:44:12,240 --> 04:44:15,800
Speaker 1: to do that politically. And yeah, sure fixing jerrymandering will

4732
04:44:15,800 --> 04:44:17,480
Speaker 1: be great, but I don't think you need me to

4733
04:44:17,560 --> 04:44:22,360
Speaker 1: tell you that anyway. We should probably that's that's probably

4734
04:44:22,400 --> 04:44:25,840
Speaker 1: more or less aisode that is as I will, I will,

4735
04:44:26,120 --> 04:44:29,960
Speaker 1: I will plug next week if similar similar on a

4736
04:44:30,000 --> 04:44:33,240
Speaker 1: similar train for for kind of talking about queerness and

4737
04:44:33,280 --> 04:44:37,480
Speaker 1: fascism um, which yeah we are. We are planning it

4738
04:44:37,759 --> 04:44:39,880
Speaker 1: to a two parter, which is a pretty going to

4739
04:44:39,919 --> 04:44:43,600
Speaker 1: be extensive deep dive into explaining the curious case of

4740
04:44:43,720 --> 04:44:47,440
Speaker 1: Nazi catboys and Garrison says Garrison says, we as if

4741
04:44:47,480 --> 04:44:49,040
Speaker 1: any of the rest of us had any choice in this,

4742
04:44:49,160 --> 04:44:55,400
Speaker 1: Garrison Garrison forced this on us through violence. Yes, but yes,

4743
04:44:55,520 --> 04:44:57,480
Speaker 1: we will be talking about this which kind of touched

4744
04:44:57,520 --> 04:44:59,759
Speaker 1: us on some similar topics in terms of like gender

4745
04:44:59,840 --> 04:45:03,840
Speaker 1: and sexuality and how it intersects with politics and how

4746
04:45:04,000 --> 04:45:07,080
Speaker 1: there can be you know, seemingly contradictory claims that you know,

4747
04:45:07,320 --> 04:45:10,400
Speaker 1: game Nazis and all that kind of stuff, So similar

4748
04:45:10,720 --> 04:45:13,399
Speaker 1: similar train will be kind of discussing that and how

4749
04:45:13,480 --> 04:45:17,240
Speaker 1: that works. Um. But yeah, this is a end of

4750
04:45:17,320 --> 04:45:19,680
Speaker 1: Trends week. Honestly at this point, that's we're ending. As

4751
04:45:19,720 --> 04:45:21,720
Speaker 1: we're ending it, I'm kind of more optimistic than I

4752
04:45:22,360 --> 04:45:24,200
Speaker 1: what than I than I was when we started trans

4753
04:45:24,280 --> 04:45:27,480
Speaker 1: weak Um, in terms of like watching kind of how

4754
04:45:27,600 --> 04:45:29,880
Speaker 1: some some of these bills have played out, how some

4755
04:45:30,040 --> 04:45:32,680
Speaker 1: of them were not We're not fully carried through. Um.

4756
04:45:32,840 --> 04:45:37,720
Speaker 1: There is protests and stuff being organized. I know for March.

4757
04:45:37,800 --> 04:45:42,160
Speaker 1: I believe it's March thirty one, which is a trans

4758
04:45:42,280 --> 04:45:44,160
Speaker 1: day of visibility. There's gonna be protests in a lot

4759
04:45:44,200 --> 04:45:48,079
Speaker 1: of conservative states. Um, I know there's gonna be let

4760
04:45:48,120 --> 04:45:49,720
Speaker 1: me let me actually, let me check because I know

4761
04:45:49,759 --> 04:45:52,920
Speaker 1: there's there's gonna be there's gonna be multiple, multiple things happening,

4762
04:45:53,360 --> 04:45:55,560
Speaker 1: and I will I'm gonna be trying to I'm gonna

4763
04:45:55,560 --> 04:45:58,440
Speaker 1: try to be in Idaho next next week for that

4764
04:45:59,080 --> 04:46:02,800
Speaker 1: because there's gonna be a test in Boizy, which I

4765
04:46:03,000 --> 04:46:07,800
Speaker 1: think Boisi, Idaho, that's the place. But there's gonna be. Yeah,

4766
04:46:07,919 --> 04:46:14,680
Speaker 1: there's gonna be events in Austin, Tallahassee, Montgomery. Um so yeah,

4767
04:46:14,800 --> 04:46:19,000
Speaker 1: I will look up tear it Up dot org for

4768
04:46:19,320 --> 04:46:22,520
Speaker 1: events for info on all of the events at different

4769
04:46:22,600 --> 04:46:26,200
Speaker 1: at different in different states. For for trans Day of

4770
04:46:26,480 --> 04:46:34,560
Speaker 1: Visibility March March one, and yeah, be gay, do crime, Yeah,

4771
04:46:34,600 --> 04:46:45,800
Speaker 1: throw bricks at transphobs, Yeah, all that stuff. Hey, We'll

4772
04:46:45,840 --> 04:46:48,879
Speaker 1: be back Monday with more episodes every week from now

4773
04:46:49,040 --> 04:46:51,600
Speaker 1: until the heat death of the Universe. It Could Happen

4774
04:46:51,680 --> 04:46:53,960
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

4775
04:46:54,040 --> 04:46:56,800
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone

4776
04:46:56,840 --> 04:46:58,680
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I

4777
04:46:58,800 --> 04:47:01,320
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple pod podcasts, or wherever you listen

4778
04:47:01,320 --> 04:47:04,280
Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here,

4779
04:47:04,400 --> 04:47:07,800
Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources.

4780
04:47:08,040 --> 04:47:08,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening,