1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 3: A star is born Elon pumped up on Mars Juthan Kennemy. 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 4: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity. 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 3: I feel for the guy. 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 2: I would say ninety eight percent really appreciate what he does. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 3: But those two percent that are nasty, they are I'll 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 3: be in four fos. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: We are meant for great things in the United States 11 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 1: of America, and Elon. 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 3: Reminds us of that we don't have a fourth branch 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 3: of governments called Elon Musk. 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 5: Mack, Mush, Mush. 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Ak, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, April twenty ninth. I'm your host, David Papadopoulos. Okay, folks, 17 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: so depending on your math, and this I will note 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: is the subject of heated debate inside the Bloomberg newsroom. 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: We're one hundred days into the Trump administration, which for 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: us here at Elon Ink means, of course, one hundred 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 2: days of doge. And so we've assembled our crack staff 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: to unveil the good the bad, the ugly, and the 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 2: truly shocking of Musk's first hundred days in power. We 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: have our regulars, Max Chafkin and Dana Hull. Welcome to 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: you bulls. 26 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 6: Greetings, David, how are you? 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: I'm good, Dana, Hey, David, And we have good Friend 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: of the Pod tech reporter Kurt Wagner. 29 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: Kurt Heloser, Hey, how often do I have to come 30 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: on to be considered a regular here? I feel like 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: my title, but no, I feel like I'm here pretty regularly. 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: It's fine. 33 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: I can be friend of the pod. 34 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: Friend of the Pod gets you, you know, a certain 35 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: amount of pay, and then if you go move beyond that, 36 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: it's a bomb. We'rettle. We got doged around here. We 37 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: all have the money to give you an upgrade later on. 38 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 2: Later on we'll kick Kurt out, so is you know, 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: because just keeping him in the friend of pods status, 40 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: We'll kick him out. Sorry, Kurt and Dana, Max and 41 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 2: I will get under the hood of the vaunted Robotaxi, 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: which is launching supposedly in June. Now, Musk spent the 43 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 2: chunk of last week's Tesla earnings call, remember that call, 44 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: hyping the vehicle and so we'll dissect the new details 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: and color emerging around a product that is a crucial 46 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: driver of Tesla's stock price. All right, but first things first, 47 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: Dana and Kurt, you guys have out on the Bloomberg 48 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: terminal and on the world wide Web today a terrific 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: piece about the one hundred days of elon Muskin power, 50 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 2: and there were a few nuggets I want to quickly 51 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: point out that people. One is that Musk has ruffled 52 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: so many feathers there in Washington and inside the administration 53 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: and among Republican members of Congress that he is. He 54 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: has been instructed to sit down each week with Trump's 55 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, to keep her informed of 56 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: his comings and goings. A little bit more color on this, 57 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: he got called into the penalty box. What happened? 58 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 4: This is reporting that was contributed by our colleague Nancy 59 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 4: Cook and Washington. And my understanding is just that, you know, 60 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 4: for all of the shock and awe of the first 61 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 4: hundred days on both the Trump administration side and the 62 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 4: Doge side, the lack of coordination really led to a 63 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 4: lot of consternation with the cabinet secretaries and with the staff, 64 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 4: and you know, musk is, you know, moving fast, kind 65 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 4: of like shoot first, asked questions later. That is the 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 4: way he operates. And he kind of felt like he 67 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 4: had carte blanche to do that from the President and 68 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 4: was doing what he was doing to help enact the agenda. 69 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 4: But when there's fallout, you know, you have to kind 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 4: of have a little bit more of a coordinated approach. 71 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 4: And I think that you know, Susie Wilds is very 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 4: much into message discipline and kind of trying to run 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 4: a much more orderly White House. So yeah, they're apparently 74 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 4: they're meeting on a more regular basis now, okay. 75 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: And I just thought that was a great little nugget 76 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: in there. And another one Kurt that I noticed was 77 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: for every day that Doze says it saved for American taxpayers. 78 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: The market cap of Tesla has fallen two dollars. Tesla's 79 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: market cap now down roughly four hundred and fifty billion dollars. 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think what is probably not shocking to 81 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: those of us here and those who are regular listeners 82 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: of Elon Inc. Is this idea that you know, Elon 83 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: has quite frankly like vastly overpromised and under delivered on 84 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: the Doze stuff, right, I mean, it wasn't that long 85 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: ago what we were talking when we're talking like two 86 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: trillion dollars in cuts than one trillion dollars in cuts, 87 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: and now we're talking about, you know, one hundred billion 88 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: dollars in cuts or whatever it is. So I think 89 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 1: what's somewhat again maybe surprising to the general public, but 90 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: not to those who follow Elon closely, is this idea 91 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 1: that he often presents a much grand or a much 92 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: more successful vision than what he's able to liver. And 93 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: that's part of why he's a great salesman. But it's 94 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: also part of why you know he is now in 95 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: this predicament, is that he kind of came in and 96 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: went a little too big, not really hitting those numbers. 97 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: So that's reflected in the Tesla stock. 98 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: Okay, and so let's do this. Now. We have a 99 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: handful of categories that we have selected for you guys, 100 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: and I will throw them out in Musk and Doge's 101 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: first hundred days. So let's say in Musk's first hundred days, 102 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 2: I should say for starters, first things first, give me 103 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: his biggest victory, Kurt Wagner. 104 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: His biggest victory is going to be the impact he's 105 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: had on helping get friends and allies placed throughout the government. 106 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: And I'm going to focus specifically on the presumptive administrator 107 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: of NASA. Jared Isaacman, who you know has flown in 108 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: SpaceX Rockets, is sort of a supporter both emotionally and 109 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: financially of Musk, and I think having a friend running 110 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: NASA will be huge for him. 111 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: Max Chefkin agree. 112 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 5: With Kurt Jared Isaacman as Kurt is a good friend 113 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 5: of this pod. Jered isaac Man is a good friend 114 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 5: of SpaceX. That's Elon's biggest win, I think by some margin. 115 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: But is Kurt being a good friend of the show. 116 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: Is that helping Elan? 117 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 5: No, what I'm saying, Yeah, I'm not saying going to 118 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 5: get us a ten billions. 119 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: Contract right now. 120 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: But don't let David come between us. Max, I got you. 121 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 2: It's fine, Dana Hall, Let's say you the data. 122 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 4: It's the access to the data. It's the fact that Doge. 123 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 4: It's not just that like these Doge kids are like 124 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 4: working at these various entities. It's that Musk and like 125 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 4: the sort of Silicon Valley cabal they have people now 126 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 4: in CISO positions, and they have access to vast amounts 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 4: of government data. This is a guy who's who's running 128 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: an AI company. He all has access to government data. 129 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 5: As somebody who has kind of by nature somewhat skeptical 130 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 5: of many developments in AI. Like I think I agree 131 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 5: with everything that Dana just said, Like this is a 132 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 5: potential win both for Trump and for Elon, but I 133 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 5: don't know, like we've seen, like data access does not 134 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 5: necessarily mean like definite technology improvement. It doesn't mean that 135 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 5: they've done anything with the data, like we just I 136 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,119 Speaker 5: don't think we know for real what Elon has gotten 137 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 5: out of this, or even frankly, what Trump has gotten 138 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 5: out of this. Like these guys are definitely going to 139 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 5: tell a story where data is very important. 140 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: I see, Okay, moving on, Musk's biggest defeat, and there 141 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: are many to pull from here. His biggest defeat in 142 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: these first hundred days. Kurt Wagner, I'm. 143 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: Going to go with Tesla's brand destruction. Obviously, I know 144 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: these things go in waves, but it's been it's been 145 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: really bad. It's the kind nothing I could take years, 146 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: decades to win back. 147 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 5: Max Chefkin, The poll numbers Elon Musk went his poll numbers. 148 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 5: And now, because Elon Musk is a political figure, we 149 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 5: see him all the time. 150 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 6: He is like the equivalent of a. 151 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 5: Very unpopular politician. And he went from being a pretty 152 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 5: much universally admired business guy, even when he was starting 153 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 5: to sort of signal right wing, to being you know, 154 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 5: underwater in his poll numbers. And that, you know, that 155 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 5: has impact on Tesla. It has impacts, you know, it 156 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 5: could even impact Donald Trump. 157 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 4: So, yeah, Wisconsin, you know, lost in the kind of 158 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: blizzard of this first one hundred days is that Musk, 159 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: you know, ventured out with his political Action committee to 160 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 4: the badger state in support of a Republican nominee for 161 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 4: the Supreme Court race there, and you know, spent twenty 162 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 4: million dollars, ran all these ads, you know, paid people 163 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 4: to sign his petition, gave away money, campaigned in Green Bay, 164 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: wore a cheese hat, I mean, did all these things 165 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 4: to kind of really inject himself in the Wisconsin race. 166 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 4: And what the Democratic Party in was content realized very 167 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: quickly was that Trump was not on the ballot and 168 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 4: that they could frame this race as a referendum on 169 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 4: Musk and Doge which they did quite effectively, and the 170 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 4: Democrat in that race won by ten points. And you know, 171 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: in the piece today we have a great quote from 172 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 4: Elaine Kmark from brook Dings. People hate Elon more than 173 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 4: Trump now and that is rallying Democrats. And if the 174 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 4: Wisconsin race is a barometer of what's to come, I 175 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 4: think it just really calls into question how effective Musk 176 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 4: and a spending will be in down ballot races where 177 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 4: when Trump is not on the ballot himself. 178 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 2: And there's obviously there's a through line here between the 179 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: three things, because the collapse and Musk popularity gets you 180 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: the brand destruction gets you to the. 181 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 5: Feed different sort of show what has happened this incredible 182 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,239 Speaker 5: collapse his popularity. 183 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: Okay, next category, the biggest surprise in these first one 184 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: hundred days, Kurt Wagner, what say. 185 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: You, Well, I'm gonna repeat what Dana just said, which 186 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: was the Wisconsin election loss. 187 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: You're going back to Wisconsin? Okay. 188 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: I just thought so soon after the Trump victory to 189 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: employe essentially the exact same playbook and get rebuked in 190 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: the way that he did, I just I don't know, 191 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: I knew people were unhappy obviously, with Elon I didn't 192 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: know that it would be that stark, this fast, Max Scheffkin. 193 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 5: The biggest surprise to me was the attempt to gain 194 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 5: access to the Department of Defense's China plans. 195 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 6: This was like a news story. 196 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: Surprising because you just thought it was such an overreach, 197 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 2: just so audacious. 198 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 6: It wasn't. 199 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 5: I mean, it was clearly an overreach because Trump came 200 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 5: out and said, I actually, no, no, no, no, he's 201 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:50,719 Speaker 5: not you know. 202 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 6: This isn't actually happening. 203 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 5: There was, you know, whatever it To me, that was 204 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 5: the kind of high point of Elon Musk's influence in Washington. 205 00:10:58,360 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: That was it. 206 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 5: I mean, the idea that he's gonna march over to 207 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 5: the Pentagon and despite the fact that he has these 208 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 5: very close ties to China, that they're you know that 209 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 5: there are people within the Republican Party who are skeptical 210 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 5: of Elon Musk because he's so close to China that 211 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 5: he's gonna, you know, that he's gonna get access to 212 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 5: potentially classified according to some reports which were then disputed, 213 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 5: potentially classified information. Of course, that has implications for for SpaceX. 214 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 5: SpaceX is you know, vying for government contracts and so on. 215 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 6: To me, that was that was kind of the high point. 216 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 6: It was stunning. 217 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 5: Even as as optimistic as I was about Elon's ability 218 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 5: to influence Donald Trump, I did that even surprised me. 219 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: You didn't You didn't see that one coming, Okay, Dana Hall. 220 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 4: I still think that. Like one of the most surreal 221 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 4: moments was when Donald Trump had five Tesla vehicles, including 222 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 4: a cyber truck, on the White House lawn and kind 223 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: of turned the White House into a pop up showroom. 224 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: This this was at the height of like the backlash 225 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 4: against Tesla and all of these protests are going on, 226 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 4: and instead of like maybe realizing, oh, the optics of 227 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 4: all this are kind of bad, like Musk and Trump 228 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 4: just doubled down on the optics of the president of 229 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 4: the United States basically rewarding his billionaire backer with like 230 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 4: a little you know, with like a little show like 231 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 4: fake Tesla sales thing, and it just forever cemented Tesla 232 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 4: as a Trump brand. It was just so crazy. It 233 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 4: was so crazy to watch. You know, Trump is like, oh, 234 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 4: it's all computer. He's like getting into the car. Meanwhile, 235 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 4: because he's the president, he can't actually drive to see 236 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,239 Speaker 4: the White House turned into that kind of a spectacle 237 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 4: for a private business person. It's just like unheard of. 238 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: But that is a good point that as bad as 239 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: first quarter sales were, sales to sitting US presidents were wayrd. 240 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 5: But did he actually buy I think I don't know 241 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 5: that he borrowed. 242 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: It was infintesimal. It went from zero to like one 243 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: or I. 244 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 5: Want to see that car. I don't believe that there 245 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 5: was actually a car purchase. 246 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 2: Not my favorite my I guess at a surprising moment. 247 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a surprise, but maybe 248 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: most surreal was when he was jumping up and down 249 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: on stage with the chainsaw that Javier Malay gave him, 250 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: and he was shouting chainsaw, which is what one does 251 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: when one jumps up and down on the stage with 252 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 2: the chainsaw on their hand. The most underreported story of 253 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 2: the first one hundred days, Kurt Wagner. 254 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna caveat this by I think it's partly underreported 255 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: because we're still dealing with or learning about the consequences, 256 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: but we're still reporting. But I think Doge's impact on 257 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: all of these various agencies that regulate Musk's companies, right, 258 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: So do these cuts are these cuts going to benefit 259 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: him tremendously down the line, because the people who used 260 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: to keep tabs on him and all the things that 261 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 1: his companies do are no longer in the building. And 262 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: I suspect, I think we all sort of suspect that 263 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: that is true to an extent. To what extent, I'm 264 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: not sure we will know for a while, but I 265 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: just think that's something that we're going to have to 266 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: keep paying attention to. 267 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: That is a story that will have legs. 268 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 7: Max Schafkin, So, I think this was like a blip 269 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 7: of a news story about a potential four hundred million 270 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 7: dollar contract for the State Department to buy cyber trucks. 271 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 6: People will remember this. 272 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 5: It came and went, the Trump administration essentially backed away 273 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 5: from it. The spreadsheet was deleted. We don't know what happened. 274 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 5: I think people are going to continue pulling on that one, 275 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 5: and I personally would like to know how that line 276 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 5: item got on a spreadsheet. I think to me, it 277 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 5: feels like the kind of news story that could come 278 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 5: to come back to bite both Elon Musk and Donald Trump. 279 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 2: Denihull, what is your most underreported story? 280 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: Okay, two things. First of all, it's notable that Elon 281 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 4: Musk has not left the country since Trump became president. 282 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 4: Typically he is someone who travels abroad quite a bit, 283 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: like he goes to Europe, he goes to China. He 284 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 4: has not left the country, and I think that that's 285 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 4: because he's just been hyper focused on Doge, but also 286 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 4: maybe he's like worried about his safety, so it's unusual 287 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 4: for him to just be domestic for so long. But secondly, 288 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm going to bring up natalism over and 289 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 4: over again because Sophie, Alexander and I were very early 290 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 4: to the story. Since inauguration, we have learned if not 291 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 4: just one other, but two other new children in Elon 292 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 4: Musk's family. He now has at least fourteen children. Ashley 293 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 4: Saint Clair announced that she was the mother of one 294 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 4: of his kids and there's a whole lawsuit now about 295 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 4: paternity and child support. And then Chavon Zillis, who is 296 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 4: an executive at Neuralink, also announced that they have four 297 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 4: kids together. So since Trump was inaugurated, we have learned 298 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 4: of two additional children. 299 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so if nothing else, there will be by the 300 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: end of the year. If my math is correct, we'll 301 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: have eight new members of the Musk household, Kurt Wagner, 302 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: Before you leave us, sir, I want to point out 303 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: one other thing in the story that you guys had today, 304 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: which is that, of course, coming into last week's Tesla 305 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: earnings call, there was a lot of you know, questions 306 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 2: and hand ringing about was Musk going to address the 307 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 2: topic of his leaving government his returning to Tesla see 308 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: oh no, And it was just kind of there was 309 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 2: a lot of debate swirling in your story. You said, 310 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: he announced what is effectively a soft exit. 311 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: Explain, Yeah, well, he said, I'm leaving, but I will 312 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: continue to work, you know, for or with the administration 313 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: one the two days per week as long as President 314 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: Trump wants me to. 315 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 3: I'll continue to spend a day or two per week 316 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: on goun matters for as long as the President would 317 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 3: like me to do so and as long as it 318 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 3: is useful. But starting next month, allocating parlow of my 319 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: time to Tesla. 320 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: But if he's still going to spend forty percent of 321 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: his work week doing this, is he really leaving? I 322 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: would say that was maybe more optics for Tesla investors, 323 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: but it felt a little bit more like a performative 324 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 1: language perhaps. 325 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 5: Look, I guess it's possible he may leave, but just 326 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 5: just this morning, or maybe it was last night as 327 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 5: we record this. On Tuesday, he posted two pictures of 328 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 5: himself holding a Doge badge for some reason. 329 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: So you know what did a Doge badge say? 330 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 6: It's a Doge father and had a number on it. 331 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 2: It's the father of dog. That's another the number. 332 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 5: Nine for twenty six six thousand, sixty nine thousand, four 333 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 5: hundred and twenty. 334 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 6: He's got the badge, he can't see. 335 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 2: Kurt Wager, Thank you, sir. 336 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, friend of the pod kerk Wagner signing off. Thanks guys. 337 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: So, in addition to Musk unveiling his grand soft exit 338 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 2: from Doge, heading back in part to Tesla, on the 339 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 2: call last week, he talked lots and lots about the Robotaxi. 340 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: Let's listen to Elon in his own words and what 341 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: he had to say. 342 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: The team and I are laser focused on bringing robotaxi 343 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 3: to Austin in gine on spis autonomy. Well, first, he's 344 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: all for the model. Y in Austin actually should pass 345 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 3: out the terms for robotic taxi or robotaxi and just 346 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 3: generally like what's the cybercap because we've got a product 347 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 3: called the cybercab. And then at any any Tesla which 348 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 3: could be an S three X or Y that is autonomous, 349 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: is a robotic taxi or robotaxi. It's very confusing. So 350 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: the vast majority about the Tesla fleet that we've made 351 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 3: is capable of being a robotaxi. Robotic taxi. 352 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 6: Guys, Okay, I got this. 353 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: First off, is for a guy who says I'm so excited, 354 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 2: he didn't sound too excited. Okay, that's my first stop. 355 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: But second of all, Max, I mean, what the heck 356 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: is he talking about? Seeing as I'm not that close 357 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: to it, I'm confused. 358 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 5: So in a lot of ways, the earnings call was 359 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 5: very similar to the earnings calls we've seen many times 360 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,959 Speaker 5: over the last couple of years, in the sense that 361 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 5: you have Elon Musk attempting to spin things forward. Don't 362 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 5: focus on the declining or stagnant sales numbers, don't focus 363 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 5: on the fact that the cyber truck is disappointing. Focus 364 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: on robotax is an optimism, and we saw that. But 365 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 5: what's different now and what really became clear to me 366 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 5: as we watched and listened to this earnings call. Is like, 367 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 5: they need to launch something very soon, and when you 368 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 5: need to launch something very soon, you need to start 369 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 5: talking about specifics. So we're hearing some specifics there. What 370 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 5: Musk is talking about is that the Robotaxi launch in 371 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 5: Austin will not include the cybercab. This was the car 372 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 5: that they launched a year ago. It will essentially be 373 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 5: a normal Tesla with a steering wheel. But I suppose 374 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 5: without a driver behind the wheel, or perhaps maybe a 375 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 5: safety driver behind the way. 376 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: Oh sorry, sorry, but don't tessels aren't they already largely 377 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: capable of driving themselves. 378 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 4: That is, you're not, David, I'm getting yelled at the 379 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 4: Well wait a minute. 380 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: So when drivers take their hands off the wheels, who 381 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 2: is driving them? 382 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 5: You, the driver, are still driving the Tesla. When you 383 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 5: take your hands off the wheels, I assume you're still 384 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 5: I hope your eyes are still on the road. I 385 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 5: hope your feet are ready to press the brake if necessary. 386 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 5: And so that is you're right, David, that Elon Musk 387 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 5: has described what. 388 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: I guess I'm trying to get at it. What is 389 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: the difference between that vehicle and its technology and the 390 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: one that currently And you guys can scream and shout 391 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: as much as you want. If your hands aren't on 392 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: the wheels and your foot's not on the pedal or on, 393 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: you're not driving. You could be watching it, you're monitoring it, 394 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 2: but you're not driving it. 395 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 6: Oh dude, you are driving it. Because if your hands 396 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 6: are right there to take. 397 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 2: The wheel, are they or you're or I don't know, 398 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 2: are they or are you texting? 399 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 5: Well, if you're texting, then you are not using the 400 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 5: technology appropriately. 401 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: We digress. Or what is the difference as we understand it, 402 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: What is the difference between this vehicle that we shall 403 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 2: see apparently in June and the existing ones. 404 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 4: David, You're not going to see a new vehicle in June. 405 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 4: What's happening in June is that Tesla is going to 406 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 4: launch some kind of ride handling service with the Model. 407 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 6: Why. 408 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 4: The cybercab that is the new vehicle that people have, 409 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 4: you know that they unveiled in the fall, is not 410 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 4: ready for prime time. You know, they said that they're 411 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 4: going to launch this service with like ten vehicles, maybe 412 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 4: twenty vehicles, and it's all going to be the Model Why. 413 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 4: So that's what's so crazy, David. 414 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: They answer your question is so Tesla right now has 415 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 5: something called full self driving parentheses supervised. 416 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 6: Now, the full self driving is what you're describing. 417 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 5: The parentheses supervised is what Dan and I are bringing up, 418 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 5: which is that you're not allowed to use it without 419 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 5: having your eyes on the road, hands on the wheel, 420 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 5: feet ready to take over, because it is not considered 421 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 5: ready for that. The plan, of course, is to take 422 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 5: away the parentheses supervised and allow these cars to operate autonomously. 423 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 5: And as we learned during this conference call, the way 424 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 5: they're going to do that is by essentially severely limiting 425 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 5: where these cars are able to operate. So Elon Musk 426 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 5: talked about that during the call. It's going to be 427 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 5: part of Austin and then they're going to try they 428 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 5: are frantically, as we learned, trying to fix the quote 429 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 5: unquote edge cases. So the kinds of things that might 430 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 5: cause you to have to take over they're going to 431 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 5: try to fix. 432 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: We actually we have a clip of Elon talking about 433 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 2: that as well. Let's listen to every one second. 434 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 3: It does seem increasingly likely that there will be a 435 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: localized parameter set, especially for places that have said very 436 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: snowy weather, like say, if you're in the Northeast or something. 437 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: It's kind of like a human you could be a 438 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 3: very good driver in California, but are you going to 439 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 3: be also a good driver in a blizzard in Manhattan? 440 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: You're not going to be as good. So there is 441 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 3: actually some value in USEL drive, but you're probably even 442 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: an accident is higher. It's increasing the obvious that there's 443 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 3: some value to having a localized set of parameters for 444 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: different regions. But this is that put them the nice 445 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 3: to have category, that's not the required category. 446 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 2: Blizzards in New York in the Year of Our Lord 447 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, we get about one of those every 448 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: you know, five years or something. 449 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 5: At other parts on the call, they said, you know, 450 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 5: the conditions are different in Boston versus Austin. I mean, 451 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 5: it's clear they're going to create a very modest, modestly 452 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 5: bounded part of Austin that they in my my and 453 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 5: my guess is that they have mapped it, you know, 454 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 5: very closely. But basically this is the kind of thing 455 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 5: that all of the other quote unquote autonomous vehicle companies 456 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 5: have done as well, because they're not actually able to 457 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 5: deliver an autonomous vehicle. What you do is you kind 458 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 5: of limit the where you're deploying it. You put it 459 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 5: on roads that you already know, You limit the speed, 460 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 5: you know, you do a bunch of things to make 461 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 5: this thing act as if it's a fully featured autonomous 462 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 5: vall even though it isn't. 463 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: Dana, we get how many of these vehicles when they 464 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: apparently roll it out in a couple months. 465 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 4: I mean they said on the earnings call, like ten 466 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 4: to twenty at first. What I want to impress upon 467 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 4: people is I think people have this idea that all 468 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 4: of a sudden, come June, this brand new Robotaxi is 469 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 4: going to take on Austin much in the way that 470 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 4: like Waimo has rolled out in cities like San Francisco, 471 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 4: and that is not happening. It's this is going to 472 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 4: be a soft launch with existing model. Wise, and like 473 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 4: there's a lot about the business model for this that 474 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 4: we don't know. And you know, Elon has bet the 475 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 4: future of the company on autonomy and AI and robotics. 476 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 4: They don't have another cheaper car yet, so they've got 477 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 4: to do something. And so he's going to have this 478 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 4: event and we'll see and you know, to be fair 479 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 4: of people who have Tesla vehicles with FSD constantly talk 480 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 4: about how they get better and yet like you know, 481 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 4: when the cameras run into the sunlight, like the whole 482 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 4: computer thing gets messed up. So like that's that was 483 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 4: something that they also talked about on the call. 484 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 5: So it is actually exactly like Waimo. It's just like 485 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 5: Waimo ten years ago. What they're doing. I mean, they 486 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 5: are doing the thing that Weimo did. They're deploying in 487 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 5: a single city with a very small number of cars. 488 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 5: I guess as there will be significant limitations and significant 489 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 5: support for the vehicles so they don't screw up. 490 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: So again, just because I'm an idiot, the difference between 491 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: these model these ten or twenty model wise that they're 492 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: going to be rolling out in June or whatever it is, 493 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: are different than existing model all the other model wise 494 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 2: out there because they know the roads, they've been given 495 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 2: the maps of Austin, Texas. 496 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 6: They they don't know that for sure. No, no, we 497 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 6: don't know. 498 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 5: So as far as Elon Musk is concerned, these are 499 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 5: the exact same cars. The only we did learn on 500 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 5: this call they're adding a microphone on the cars, so 501 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 5: like there's going to be an additional sensor that is 502 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 5: ostensibly to listen for sirens. The problem being that autonomous 503 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 5: cars from other companies struggle to deal with. Emergency vehicles 504 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 5: are a huge problem for autonomous vehicles. Crews got into 505 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 5: a lot of trouble. It's one of the reasons CRUs 506 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 5: ceased to exist as a driverless car companies because they 507 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 5: could not navigate the emergency vehicles, so police cars and ambulances. 508 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 5: What we know for sure is that they're doing some 509 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 5: things to augment the existing thing. And then the other 510 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 5: difference is going to be there's apparently no one overseeing 511 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 5: the you. 512 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: Know, the AGA. As you said earlier, what differentiates this 513 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: one from the other ones is the FSD. 514 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 6: You're essentially just getting rid of the parentheses super. 515 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: No more parentheses. 516 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 5: It is just although as we learned on this earnings call, 517 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 5: there is going to be some supervision, there's going to 518 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 5: be you know, quote unquote remote operators. 519 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 520 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 3: Really just just worked through a long tale of unusual 521 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 3: interventions and these are really very intervention Every ten thousand miles, 522 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of driving you've got to 523 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 3: do to even find one case with an ATHLETs. Okay, 524 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 3: but do you have like remote operators for example, I. 525 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 8: Mean never know and then if your car gets stuck 526 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 8: or something, someone will like, you know, unlock it. But 527 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 8: it's says, figure to be a bit conservative and our 528 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 8: tend towards more safety than even if it gets stuck. 529 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 8: Every now and then. We do every remote support, but 530 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 8: it's not going to be required for safe operation if anything, 531 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 8: is just required far more availability. 532 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 3: Anyways, I don't like a couple months away, so you 533 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: can just say for yourself in a couple months in 534 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: as Okay. 535 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 5: So that was Musk and a shoke Eli Swami, who's 536 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 5: the VP of Autopilot Remote Operators. 537 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 6: This is a huge issue in the world of autonomous cars. 538 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 5: And again, what Tesla is doing is basically learning all 539 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 5: of the lessons that Weymo learned. You know, Waimo was 540 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 5: acting like they were about to launch driverless cars across 541 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 5: the country, you know, about ten years ago, and they 542 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 5: have now they're in a handful of cities, you know 543 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 5: there there's certainly more than ten or twenty. But anyway, 544 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 5: remote operators is a guy in a call center who's 545 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 5: watching the car and who is prepared to help take 546 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 5: over if something. 547 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, each each person in the call center 548 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: presumably they're monitoring more than one car at a time. 549 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 5: Otherwise you really don't ten or twenty. You probably could 550 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 5: have ten or twenty guys. You know, remember the uh 551 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 5: the autonomy event where you had people voicing Optimus like, 552 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 5: I assume no, no, no, no, that's fine. 553 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: But for Wamo, jesus, Weaimo's literally got. 554 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 5: Every hugely controversial issue and the companies. 555 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 2: Are whole things a hoax. 556 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 6: Dude. I have been writing stories about this, pointing out. 557 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: The issues for a year. 558 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 6: I'm not saying that no one listen. 559 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 5: Anyway, this has been a huge issue in industry. There 560 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 5: are people in call senators monitoring the cars for Waimo 561 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 5: and all the other driverless car companies. Now, the driverless 562 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 5: car companies are pushed back on the idea that these 563 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 5: are remote operators. What they say is no, they're there 564 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: to kind of get the car unstuck or tell it 565 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 5: what to do. But like, it's very hard to know 566 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 5: how much control those operators have. Some of the reporting 567 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 5: that I've done over the years suggests that, at least 568 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 5: with other companies, these remote operators have been able to 569 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 5: literally control the car remotely, So anyway, they are all 570 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 5: sorts of issues based on this answer, it was very vague, 571 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 5: but my guess is that there are remote operators who 572 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 5: are monitoring these cars more or less continuously while they're operating. 573 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 5: And again this is my guess based on reporting I've 574 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 5: done on the industry and the technology and so on. 575 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 5: This is how these things, says one of the reasons 576 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 5: they're only launching ten to twenty All. 577 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 2: Right, Denna, When that cybercab comes out, if it does 578 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: at some point, what exactly then does that look like 579 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: and just how different is that than this. 580 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 4: Well, the cyber cab is what Musk unveiled in the fall, 581 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 4: and it's sort of like a gold tinged vehicle that 582 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 4: probably doesn't have a steering wheel. It is a dedicated robotaxi. 583 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 4: So the thing way we have to remember is in 584 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 4: Musk's mind, there is the dedicated cybercab. But that also 585 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 4: what they're trying to tell you is that like anyone 586 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 4: who owns a model, why could eventually like let their 587 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 4: car be part of this like autonomous tessel fleet. And 588 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 4: so they're trying to do both things. Where create a 589 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 4: dedicated vehicle but also allow their current vehicles to eventually 590 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 4: be autonomous. 591 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 6: That cybercab. 592 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 5: I think it's should be regarded kind of as a 593 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 5: demonstration vehicle rather than anything that. I mean, you know, 594 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 5: I'm sure Musk is going to produce a few because 595 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 5: it would be very embarrassing to not. But like, there 596 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 5: are just some practical issues and only has two seats, 597 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 5: you know, like, especially a guy with a big family 598 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 5: like Elon Musk, you might think there you might want 599 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 5: a few more seats. You know, two seats is not 600 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 5: very many. It's like if you have three friends, you 601 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 5: need two cybercaps. 602 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 6: I guess so I don't. 603 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 5: It doesn't seem like a fully baked technology to say 604 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 5: the least. 605 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: Okay, Danna Max, thank you as always, Thank you Thanks. 606 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wang, Blake Maples handles engineering, 607 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 2: and day Percell fact checks. Our editor is Anna Masirakis 608 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: and our supervising producer is Magnus Henricson. The Elon Inc. 609 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 2: Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex 610 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 2: sugi Erra. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer in 611 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts, A Big things. 612 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 2: As always to our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone, 613 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 2: I'm David Papadopoulos. If you have a minute, rate and 614 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. See 615 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: you next week.