WEBVTT - Bush v. Gore: Bonus - Information Wars 0:00:16.311 --> 0:00:25.231 Pushkin when they had offered me the bulletproof vest I 0:00:25.631 --> 0:00:28.311 think that scared me more than anything else. Dead this 0:00:28.391 --> 0:00:30.271 idea I have to wear a bulletproof vests. My god, 0:00:30.351 --> 0:00:33.351 what's going on here? That's not the tall hassee I know. 0:00:38.031 --> 0:00:41.511 Hey, Fiasco listeners, it's Leon Napok. This is the third 0:00:41.551 --> 0:00:44.670 and a series of bonus episodes featuring standout interviews from 0:00:44.671 --> 0:00:47.991 our season, Bush v. Gore. We're sharing these extras for 0:00:48.031 --> 0:00:50.150 anyone who wants to go deeper into the story of 0:00:50.190 --> 0:00:52.510 the two thousand election and to hear more from the 0:00:52.510 --> 0:00:54.871 central players we spoke to over the course of our 0:00:54.911 --> 0:00:58.311 reporting process. We spent a lot of time this season 0:00:58.391 --> 0:01:03.871 talking to people who live and breathe politics, strategists, advisors, journalists, 0:01:03.871 --> 0:01:08.351 and lawyers. Lots and lots of lawyers. But some of 0:01:08.391 --> 0:01:10.631 the people and institutions that got caught up in the 0:01:10.631 --> 0:01:14.551 Florida recount were not partisan or political at all. In fact, 0:01:14.551 --> 0:01:18.071 they were supposed to be anything But today I wanted 0:01:18.111 --> 0:01:20.391 to share a conversation I had with one such person. 0:01:21.471 --> 0:01:24.031 One of the funny aspects of being the spokesman for 0:01:24.071 --> 0:01:27.751 any institution is generally, if someone is getting credit for something, 0:01:27.831 --> 0:01:31.111 it's not me. It's going to be one of my bosses. 0:01:31.391 --> 0:01:34.511 This is Craig Waters, the former Public Information Officer of 0:01:34.551 --> 0:01:37.551 the Florida Supreme Court, a role he held during the 0:01:37.591 --> 0:01:38.591 two thousand recount. 0:01:39.031 --> 0:01:41.591 But if things aren't going well, if things are controversial, 0:01:41.671 --> 0:01:43.431 or if there's trouble, then I'm the one who has 0:01:43.471 --> 0:01:44.511 to go out and do the talking. 0:01:44.991 --> 0:01:48.111 In two thousand, the Florida Supreme Court became the epicenter 0:01:48.151 --> 0:01:50.751 of the political universe, and it made decisions that were 0:01:50.831 --> 0:01:56.311 hugely consequential and controversial. First, the Court prevented Secretary of 0:01:56.311 --> 0:01:59.511 State Catherine Harris from certifying the results at the usual deadline. 0:01:59.951 --> 0:02:02.031 Then it ruled that Harris had to wait until at 0:02:02.071 --> 0:02:05.271 least November twenty sixth to allow counties to finish their recounts. 0:02:05.951 --> 0:02:09.511 And then on December eighth, the Court shocked just about 0:02:09.550 --> 0:02:12.231 everyone by ordering a statewide manual recount. 0:02:12.431 --> 0:02:15.111 The Circuit Court sall order a manual recount of all 0:02:15.191 --> 0:02:19.111 under votes in any Florida county where such a recount 0:02:19.111 --> 0:02:22.751 has not yet occurred. Because time is of the essence, 0:02:23.351 --> 0:02:25.071 the recount shall commence immediately. 0:02:26.111 --> 0:02:28.711 Waters read summaries of each opinion to the press after 0:02:28.751 --> 0:02:32.271 the Court handed them down, and for each decision, conservative 0:02:32.271 --> 0:02:35.791 pundits and Bush campaign staffers were outraged. They attacked the 0:02:35.831 --> 0:02:39.311 Court as a group of partisan democratic judges. It was 0:02:39.351 --> 0:02:42.071 Craig Waters's job to defend the institution that he believed 0:02:42.111 --> 0:02:45.271 in and to keep the public informed. In the process. 0:02:45.551 --> 0:02:48.351 He became a public figure in his own right. When 0:02:48.391 --> 0:02:50.631 I talked to Waters about what this was like. We 0:02:50.711 --> 0:02:53.951 began in the morning after the two thousand election. Waters 0:02:53.951 --> 0:02:56.311 was staying at a hotel in Orlando, and the next 0:02:56.311 --> 0:02:59.471 morning he went downstairs to check the news. He realized 0:02:59.511 --> 0:03:02.271 pretty quickly that the Florida Supreme Court was probably going 0:03:02.311 --> 0:03:02.911 to be involved. 0:03:03.271 --> 0:03:07.191 I went down to the hotel desk and found stacks 0:03:07.231 --> 0:03:11.951 of the Orlando Sentinel newspaper. All of them would contradictory headlines. 0:03:11.991 --> 0:03:14.031 One said Gore had won, one said Bush had won. 0:03:14.071 --> 0:03:17.111 Another one said too close to call. I couldn't figure 0:03:17.111 --> 0:03:17.871 out what was going on. 0:03:17.991 --> 0:03:18.911 These were different editions. 0:03:18.911 --> 0:03:21.031 These were different editions that had come out at different 0:03:21.031 --> 0:03:23.951 times during the evening. So I went back, and I 0:03:23.991 --> 0:03:25.831 didn't want to call the Chief Justice right then. I 0:03:25.911 --> 0:03:29.151 knew that there was a problem, but I called the 0:03:29.191 --> 0:03:32.951 Associated Press here in Tallahassee they tended to stay on 0:03:32.991 --> 0:03:34.911 top of things. The Associated Press was the biggest of 0:03:34.951 --> 0:03:37.711 all the news organizations at that point in time, and 0:03:37.791 --> 0:03:40.191 they filled me in on what had happened overnight in Florida, 0:03:40.271 --> 0:03:43.111 so I felt I had the latest information. And then 0:03:43.151 --> 0:03:45.511 I called the Chief Justice, who was Charlie Wells at 0:03:45.551 --> 0:03:48.311 the time, and his first words to me were, get 0:03:48.351 --> 0:03:49.311 back here as soon as you can. 0:03:49.711 --> 0:03:51.711 Why did he tell you to get back as soon 0:03:51.711 --> 0:03:52.391 as you could. 0:03:52.591 --> 0:03:56.631 Because crowds at that point were already forming between the 0:03:56.671 --> 0:03:59.631 Florida Supreme Court Building and the Capitol. The Florida Supreme 0:03:59.631 --> 0:04:03.111 Court Building is directly across Duval Street from the Capitol Building, 0:04:03.551 --> 0:04:08.071 and there's a large terraced plaza area between the two buildings, 0:04:08.151 --> 0:04:11.751 and there already were news setting up. There were cameras 0:04:11.791 --> 0:04:15.111 all over the place, There were reporters, some sight seers 0:04:15.151 --> 0:04:18.271 were starting to gather as well. There was a general sense, 0:04:18.311 --> 0:04:21.431 I think, until I asked you, that something was going 0:04:21.431 --> 0:04:23.590 on that was going to involve the city in a 0:04:23.591 --> 0:04:23.991 big way. 0:04:24.831 --> 0:04:26.630 So it was clear to you that the Florida Supreme 0:04:26.671 --> 0:04:29.471 Court would have a role to play in resolving it. 0:04:29.471 --> 0:04:32.871 It wasn't clear at that point it seemed likely. When 0:04:32.871 --> 0:04:35.630 I sat down with Chief Justice Wells when I got back, 0:04:35.671 --> 0:04:37.431 he told me that his hope was that it would 0:04:37.431 --> 0:04:41.071 remain in federal courts, and there was some basis for that. 0:04:41.111 --> 0:04:43.111 I mean, federal laws were involved. 0:04:42.951 --> 0:04:45.151 And the Bush lawyers had filed shot. 0:04:45.391 --> 0:04:47.711 Yeah, the very first lawsuits were filed in the federal court, 0:04:47.751 --> 0:04:49.591 I think because everybody assumed it was going to be 0:04:49.631 --> 0:04:53.431 a federal matter. The problem with that, after you start 0:04:53.471 --> 0:04:56.271 thinking about it, is that the United States has a 0:04:56.311 --> 0:05:00.551 peculiar way of dealing with elections. Under the federal system 0:05:00.591 --> 0:05:05.311 that was established by the founding fathers, the supervision of elections, 0:05:05.311 --> 0:05:09.311 including national elections, was left to the states themselves, and therefore, 0:05:09.311 --> 0:05:13.351 as a matter of state law, the federal courts, when 0:05:13.351 --> 0:05:16.591 they got these first lawsuits, after they realized you know this, 0:05:16.791 --> 0:05:19.830 that the the issues involved too many state law issues, 0:05:20.271 --> 0:05:22.071 began kicking it out and saying, no, you're going to 0:05:22.111 --> 0:05:23.991 have to go to state court on this, because because 0:05:24.031 --> 0:05:26.630 what you're talking about is state laws, not federal law. 0:05:27.311 --> 0:05:31.591 What was the first occasion you had to get up 0:05:31.631 --> 0:05:34.231 in front of the courthouse and address reporters. 0:05:34.511 --> 0:05:37.711 It started very gradually. One of the things that happened 0:05:38.351 --> 0:05:41.591 very early on was that our marshal locked our doors, 0:05:42.831 --> 0:05:46.231 which infuriated me. We've always been an open courthouse and 0:05:46.351 --> 0:05:48.431 I did not like anything that looked like we, you know, 0:05:48.511 --> 0:05:51.111 that we were closing ourselves off. I went to the 0:05:51.191 --> 0:05:53.431 Chief Justice, to Charlie Wells at the time, and said, 0:05:53.431 --> 0:05:56.031 the Marshal just locked the doors, please reverse him immediately. 0:05:56.631 --> 0:05:59.111 But we did have large crowds that were gathering, and 0:05:59.151 --> 0:06:01.991 there were problems inside the Capitol building with the crowds already, 0:06:02.071 --> 0:06:04.831 you know, people getting into public spaces and causing disruptions. 0:06:05.391 --> 0:06:08.510 And Chief Justice Wells was unwilling to countermand the Marshal, 0:06:09.231 --> 0:06:11.151 so he told me right then and there, and this 0:06:11.311 --> 0:06:14.231 was just after the election had happened, he said, well, 0:06:14.271 --> 0:06:16.431 why don't you just go out and talk to people, 0:06:16.551 --> 0:06:18.271 Go out and talk to the press, talk to whoever 0:06:19.031 --> 0:06:21.831 you know. You're our communications director. So I actually started 0:06:21.831 --> 0:06:24.511 just walking out in front on the front steps in 0:06:24.591 --> 0:06:27.391 a very casual way, you know, like you know, the 0:06:27.511 --> 0:06:29.471 people milling, and I'd go up and start talking with 0:06:29.511 --> 0:06:30.751 some of the ones that I knew. I knew a 0:06:30.751 --> 0:06:33.071 lot of the reporters here in town already, and that's 0:06:33.111 --> 0:06:36.551 really how it started me having very informal conversations with 0:06:36.591 --> 0:06:39.911 people outside the building, and as the event progressed, it 0:06:39.991 --> 0:06:42.751 just became more and more formal, and the crowds grew 0:06:42.871 --> 0:06:46.231 more and more large over time, until we reached the 0:06:46.231 --> 0:06:49.111 point where one day there were so many people and 0:06:49.151 --> 0:06:52.630 so many microphones, somebody said, well, let's get a podium, 0:06:52.671 --> 0:06:54.751 so we can put all the microphones on the podium. 0:06:54.791 --> 0:06:57.711 And then the podium came out, and then the podium 0:06:57.751 --> 0:07:00.431 gradually moved up the steps, and then all of a 0:07:00.431 --> 0:07:02.831 sudden there were lights, and then they were putting a 0:07:02.831 --> 0:07:06.871 microphone on my tie. So it evolved pretty. 0:07:06.671 --> 0:07:10.031 Rapidly, and so it's not like you always read decisions. 0:07:10.711 --> 0:07:12.871 We here at the Florida Supreme Court have actually operated 0:07:12.951 --> 0:07:14.711 under a rule for a very long time that the 0:07:14.751 --> 0:07:17.991 opinions of the court speak for themselves. So generally I 0:07:18.031 --> 0:07:21.031 do not comment on the opinions. I certainly don't try 0:07:21.031 --> 0:07:24.071 to interpret what they mean. You find any two attorneys 0:07:24.071 --> 0:07:26.391 and they'll disagree over what any opinion means, because that's 0:07:26.391 --> 0:07:30.391 what attorneys do. But one of the problems we face 0:07:30.631 --> 0:07:33.311 with Bush v. Gore was that we had huge crowds 0:07:33.351 --> 0:07:35.951 of reporters. At the heights of it, we would have 0:07:35.991 --> 0:07:39.151 two or three hundred reporters standing outside the building waiting 0:07:39.271 --> 0:07:42.271 for a decision from the court. Trying to be fair 0:07:42.311 --> 0:07:45.871 to two or three hundred people is very difficult. If 0:07:45.911 --> 0:07:48.431 you start releasing paper opinions, someone's going to be first 0:07:48.471 --> 0:07:50.071 in line and someone's going to be last in line, 0:07:50.071 --> 0:07:51.951 and of course the people who are last in line 0:07:51.951 --> 0:07:54.551 are going to be very unhappy with that situation. We 0:07:54.591 --> 0:07:57.311 didn't have social media at the time. Today I could 0:07:57.391 --> 0:07:59.351 do the same thing on Twitter, but I didn't have 0:07:59.391 --> 0:08:02.751 Twitter back then. So what happened when we began to 0:08:02.791 --> 0:08:05.591 realize what a big controversy Bush v. Gore was going 0:08:05.631 --> 0:08:10.031 to become. I sat down with the on site assignment 0:08:10.671 --> 0:08:13.711 editors of all the big TV networks that were here 0:08:13.711 --> 0:08:17.191 in Tallahassee. And it was not just the American networks. 0:08:17.231 --> 0:08:20.631 There was also some foreign networks as well, and I 0:08:20.671 --> 0:08:22.511 had a big powwow, and I said, what could we 0:08:22.551 --> 0:08:25.351 do that's going to make this fairer? What's going to 0:08:25.391 --> 0:08:28.631 work best for you? And the consensus that they reached 0:08:28.831 --> 0:08:31.671 was they needed someone to come out and just read 0:08:31.831 --> 0:08:35.111 a brief, bottom line announcement of what each decision meant 0:08:35.511 --> 0:08:38.511 when there was a major decision coming out of the court, 0:08:39.111 --> 0:08:42.071 and they wanted thirty minutes notice so that they would 0:08:42.111 --> 0:08:44.271 have time to break into programming because this was going 0:08:44.310 --> 0:08:47.310 to go live worldwide. And they agreed that I did 0:08:47.351 --> 0:08:49.551 not have to take questions and answers because I think 0:08:49.550 --> 0:08:51.751 the Court would not have agreed to that. The justices 0:08:51.751 --> 0:08:52.551 would not have liked that. 0:08:53.950 --> 0:08:56.590 What did it feel like delivering that summary? It was 0:08:56.670 --> 0:08:59.550 like a you know, as a private citizen terned oracle. 0:09:00.550 --> 0:09:04.190 Well, it was very surreal to see the process. I 0:09:04.231 --> 0:09:06.391 mean because I was really, as I said, I was 0:09:06.430 --> 0:09:08.670 going out and just talking with people casually, like I'm 0:09:08.710 --> 0:09:11.151 talking to you right now. And it had been and 0:09:11.670 --> 0:09:14.111 you know, all of a sudden, when when that order 0:09:14.151 --> 0:09:15.830 came out and there were all these people and all 0:09:15.871 --> 0:09:18.550 these microphones, all of a sudden, that changed. Everything had 0:09:18.590 --> 0:09:21.910 to become more formal, It had to become a much 0:09:21.950 --> 0:09:25.910 more predictable process. The crowds were larger, the security presence 0:09:25.991 --> 0:09:28.831 grew all of a sudden. I had armed police officers 0:09:28.950 --> 0:09:32.991 around me at all the all times. And it was 0:09:33.391 --> 0:09:37.190 very strange to go from this role that I had had, 0:09:37.991 --> 0:09:40.431 which was very much a behind the scenes role to 0:09:40.550 --> 0:09:43.271 all of a sudden, I'm the guy out front, and 0:09:43.310 --> 0:09:46.871 it was very strange to watch that process happen, and 0:09:47.190 --> 0:09:49.871 you know, to understand the in real time, the logic 0:09:49.950 --> 0:09:51.151 of why it was happening. 0:09:51.351 --> 0:09:51.751 What do you mean? 0:09:52.310 --> 0:09:54.591 We were very accustomed to openness here, We were very 0:09:54.590 --> 0:09:59.391 accustomed to being welcoming to people. We had a Southern 0:09:59.471 --> 0:10:02.830 y all comattitude. Tallahassee is a very small town. Everybody 0:10:02.830 --> 0:10:05.310 knows everybody. Everybody in the press knows everybody. I mean, 0:10:05.391 --> 0:10:07.750 I know everybody in the press here, and it's been 0:10:07.751 --> 0:10:10.030 that way for a long time. But all of a sudden, 0:10:10.111 --> 0:10:13.151 and we had these newcomers coming in from out of town. 0:10:13.670 --> 0:10:16.751 Initially at the very beginning phases, if I had a 0:10:16.751 --> 0:10:19.550 reporter from New York City saying, well, I don't understand 0:10:20.030 --> 0:10:22.790 how you do these things, I could say, well, there's 0:10:22.871 --> 0:10:25.190 Lucy Morgan from the Saint Pete Times. Go talk to hers. 0:10:25.190 --> 0:10:28.790 She'll explain it to you. But once you start getting 0:10:28.871 --> 0:10:30.670 larger and larger crowds, you can't do that kind of 0:10:30.670 --> 0:10:32.670 thing anymore. So I had to start trying to figure 0:10:32.670 --> 0:10:36.151 out how to get that information across myself, and all 0:10:36.190 --> 0:10:38.431 of a sudden. I was having to have meetings with 0:10:39.111 --> 0:10:43.271 the Capitol Police, Florida Highway Patrol, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, 0:10:43.391 --> 0:10:46.910 City of Tallahassee Police Department, Leon County Sheriff's Office. All 0:10:46.950 --> 0:10:50.110 these people were coming in because they had concurrent jurisdiction 0:10:50.190 --> 0:10:53.111 over the areas where the crowds were forming, and so 0:10:53.231 --> 0:10:55.351 they had to be brought in and consulted on everything 0:10:55.351 --> 0:10:59.471 I did. The crowds were later would become enormous. 0:11:00.151 --> 0:11:02.871 More of my conversation with Craig Waters after the break. 0:11:07.710 --> 0:11:11.710 I suppose it was when the Florida Spreme Court ruled 0:11:12.030 --> 0:11:17.711 to extend the certification deadline to the twenty sixth that people, 0:11:17.950 --> 0:11:21.831 perhaps on the Bush side, started to really see the 0:11:21.871 --> 0:11:25.070 institution as being against them. And is that when you 0:11:25.111 --> 0:11:27.631 started getting threats and stuff like that? 0:11:28.310 --> 0:11:31.831 From my perspective, After the issuance of that particular opinion 0:11:31.950 --> 0:11:35.711 on November twenty first, that was when the spin began 0:11:36.590 --> 0:11:40.551 to try to portray the Florida Supreme Court as being 0:11:40.790 --> 0:11:43.910 biased toward the Democratic side. I'm sure that was driven 0:11:43.950 --> 0:11:47.111 by some sense of fear. You don't launch that kind 0:11:47.111 --> 0:11:49.751 of elaborate public relations effort without some reason. 0:11:50.030 --> 0:11:50.950 What do they do exactly. 0:11:52.271 --> 0:11:55.430 That was when I began noticing people going on television 0:11:55.550 --> 0:11:59.790 and really criticizing the Florida Supreme Court. And it was 0:11:59.871 --> 0:12:01.990 very interesting here from the perspective at the Florida Supreme 0:12:02.030 --> 0:12:05.030 Court because directly across the street, on the terraces of 0:12:05.030 --> 0:12:07.230 the Capitol building, that was where the press had pitched 0:12:07.231 --> 0:12:10.631 their tents. Literally, there are all these white tents, and 0:12:10.670 --> 0:12:13.471 every major news organization had a white tint. My office 0:12:13.471 --> 0:12:15.751 actually looks out over that area, and I could see 0:12:15.790 --> 0:12:20.950 all of these very major political figures going from tent 0:12:21.151 --> 0:12:25.551 to tent to tent to tent doing interviews. Then I 0:12:25.590 --> 0:12:27.950 could watch what they were saying on television, and they 0:12:28.790 --> 0:12:32.550 were conducting spin against the Florida Supreme Court. I, of course, 0:12:32.590 --> 0:12:34.910 I was trying to do media interviews as well to 0:12:34.950 --> 0:12:37.751 get as much good information as I could. During that 0:12:37.830 --> 0:12:44.311 particular point in time that I was contacted by a 0:12:44.351 --> 0:12:46.590 television news program that I did not know that much 0:12:46.590 --> 0:12:49.391 about at the time. If I recall correctly, it was 0:12:49.430 --> 0:12:53.910 called Hannity and Colmbs. I actually got into this interview 0:12:53.950 --> 0:12:59.590 and realized that the other person on the other end 0:12:59.710 --> 0:13:02.471 of the interview was someone I also had never heard 0:13:02.511 --> 0:13:06.190 of whose name was Anne Colter, and she launched into 0:13:06.190 --> 0:13:10.150 a tirade against the Florida Supreme Court. I was particularly 0:13:10.190 --> 0:13:14.231 irritated with that because Sean Hannity's people had told me 0:13:14.271 --> 0:13:17.391 they only wanted me to come and talk about procedural matters, 0:13:17.391 --> 0:13:20.271 which is really all I'm qualified to talk about, And 0:13:20.710 --> 0:13:22.550 all of a sudden, there was Anne Culter trying to 0:13:22.631 --> 0:13:26.631 debate me about the merits of Florida Supreme Court opinions. 0:13:27.111 --> 0:13:29.991 So I literally ended up saying over and over and 0:13:30.030 --> 0:13:33.550 over again to Sean Hannity that his people had asked 0:13:33.550 --> 0:13:36.950 me to appear only for procedural issues, and that they 0:13:36.991 --> 0:13:40.430 had apparently brought me under this interview under false pretenses. 0:13:41.550 --> 0:13:44.310 That was probably one of the most vivid examples of 0:13:44.351 --> 0:13:46.511 the spin that I encountered. 0:13:47.751 --> 0:13:51.511 Was it accompanied by personal attacks on you Outside the 0:13:51.511 --> 0:13:53.071 media I managed. 0:13:53.511 --> 0:13:55.910 There were two public email accounts. They were the email 0:13:55.910 --> 0:13:58.191 accounts that were listed on most of the web pages 0:13:58.231 --> 0:14:00.711 of the Florida Supreme Court. So we started getting tens 0:14:00.710 --> 0:14:03.231 of thousands of emails. I couldn't even go through all 0:14:03.271 --> 0:14:06.151 the emails. You know, some of them really were personal attacks, 0:14:06.830 --> 0:14:09.951 and if you read them, you would begin to realize that. 0:14:10.030 --> 0:14:13.231 But these people were extremely confused about the process. Many 0:14:13.271 --> 0:14:14.991 of them thought that I was the one who was 0:14:15.190 --> 0:14:17.670 personally making the decisions that I was announcing on the 0:14:17.710 --> 0:14:20.591 steps of the Florida Supreme Court, and then they would 0:14:21.511 --> 0:14:25.350 treat me accordingly. And some of it was very vulgar 0:14:25.471 --> 0:14:27.990 and some of it was threatening. We handed some of 0:14:28.031 --> 0:14:30.671 it over to law enforcement because of the threatening nature. 0:14:31.111 --> 0:14:33.271 I didn't want to get a pulled in that direction 0:14:34.031 --> 0:14:35.551 at that point in time. I had too many other 0:14:36.391 --> 0:14:38.631 pots on the stove at that point, and so I 0:14:38.631 --> 0:14:41.951 actually stopped even opening those email accounts at some point 0:14:41.991 --> 0:14:43.991 because it just was too much of a distraction. 0:14:43.671 --> 0:14:45.311 And repe were calling your cell phone that you had 0:14:45.431 --> 0:14:46.111 posted online. 0:14:46.271 --> 0:14:48.151 Yeah, the cell phone we ended up just turning off. 0:14:48.191 --> 0:14:50.311 It became useless. I got another cell phone during that 0:14:50.311 --> 0:14:53.071 period of time and we started using that, and my 0:14:53.191 --> 0:14:56.271 office phone number also became unusable. I'd also put that 0:14:56.351 --> 0:14:59.471 on the web page when I first put put that 0:14:59.511 --> 0:15:01.511 out there. We actually tried for a while to bring 0:15:01.551 --> 0:15:04.311 in staff to answer my phone because it was ringing constantly, 0:15:04.830 --> 0:15:06.751 and then we finally just gave up on that and 0:15:06.911 --> 0:15:09.511 just turned We unplugged the phone and let it go 0:15:09.751 --> 0:15:12.830 all good a voicemail. Of course, the voicemail quickly filled up. 0:15:13.071 --> 0:15:14.791 There was such a novel experience. I mean, I know 0:15:14.830 --> 0:15:16.791 this happens all the time now to people who are 0:15:16.911 --> 0:15:19.111 in the middle of the news, but to like just 0:15:19.151 --> 0:15:20.951 be on the receiving end of such easy like the 0:15:21.791 --> 0:15:23.911 the barrier to entry on that communication for the people 0:15:23.951 --> 0:15:27.031 who were contacting you were so low. It had been higher, 0:15:27.111 --> 0:15:29.751 like even quite recently in history. 0:15:30.830 --> 0:15:32.831 It was certainly my first encounter with this sort of 0:15:33.590 --> 0:15:35.991 twenty four hour news phenomenon that can take someone who's 0:15:36.071 --> 0:15:38.471 unknown and turned them into a household name overnight. 0:15:39.791 --> 0:15:40.551 Is what happened to you. 0:15:40.710 --> 0:15:44.110 I mean, it is very much. It was amazing to watch, 0:15:44.111 --> 0:15:48.271 and it wasn't something that I liked. Even for a 0:15:48.271 --> 0:15:50.511 period of about six months after it was over. People 0:15:50.511 --> 0:15:53.071 would stop and point and stare at me in airports. 0:15:53.671 --> 0:16:00.151 Did you feel compelled to undermine the perception that the 0:16:00.191 --> 0:16:03.191 Florida Supreme Court was biased towards gloor in your self presentation, 0:16:03.911 --> 0:16:07.311 especially when you were actually giving those reading those orders 0:16:07.351 --> 0:16:08.871 and reading those decisions. 0:16:09.671 --> 0:16:13.191 The first episode of that where the optics played a 0:16:13.311 --> 0:16:16.551 major role in a decision I made was right before 0:16:17.031 --> 0:16:20.830 I went out to make the December eighth announcement about 0:16:20.830 --> 0:16:24.271 the statewide recount. Enormous crowds had formed outside and they 0:16:24.271 --> 0:16:27.311 were quite boisterous. The police were very concerned. I was 0:16:27.351 --> 0:16:30.511 inside the rotun to the building. The building was closed, 0:16:30.511 --> 0:16:32.590 of course, and there was no one in the rotunda 0:16:32.631 --> 0:16:36.191 area except me in the law enforcement. I was there 0:16:36.231 --> 0:16:38.830 with my prepared statement and was getting ready, and one 0:16:38.911 --> 0:16:41.711 of the law enforcement officers came up and said, we 0:16:41.791 --> 0:16:44.471 have a bulletproof vest for you, and we would really 0:16:44.511 --> 0:16:48.471 like you to wear this because we're concerned. And the 0:16:48.551 --> 0:16:52.071 thing that flashed into my head was something I remembered. 0:16:52.471 --> 0:16:55.230 I've always been something of a student of public relations, 0:16:55.751 --> 0:16:59.951 and I remember back when Hillary Clinton was working for 0:17:00.071 --> 0:17:02.991 her husband, who was president at the time, on his 0:17:03.071 --> 0:17:06.951 healthcare initiative, which had become very controversial, and she was 0:17:06.991 --> 0:17:11.390 going to an airport and she was television cameras were 0:17:11.431 --> 0:17:14.271 following her, and there was an image of her walking 0:17:14.311 --> 0:17:17.311 through this airport wearing a bulletproof veest and she looked 0:17:17.311 --> 0:17:21.551 scared and mistrustful and afraid. That was the image that 0:17:21.590 --> 0:17:23.470 popped into my mind, and that was the image that 0:17:23.511 --> 0:17:27.391 I did not want to project, and thinking of the optics. 0:17:27.431 --> 0:17:30.031 I decided not to wear the bulletproof fest. I just 0:17:30.071 --> 0:17:33.510 thought that was completely the wrong image to project at 0:17:33.511 --> 0:17:34.631 that particular point in time. 0:17:34.671 --> 0:17:36.031 Well would have projected, it. 0:17:36.031 --> 0:17:38.670 Would have projected closure. Fear. 0:17:39.471 --> 0:17:43.951 Mistrust was the reason that they proposed the bulletproof fest. 0:17:44.191 --> 0:17:47.791 That they understood that substance of a decision would be 0:17:47.830 --> 0:17:48.590 so provocative. 0:17:48.830 --> 0:17:52.190 The problem wasn't, really, I think, so much the nature 0:17:52.231 --> 0:17:54.951 of the decision, because the whole thing had been controversial. 0:17:55.350 --> 0:17:58.071 The problem was that the crowds were so large. The 0:17:58.110 --> 0:18:01.551 streets were absolutely jam packed. The area between here and 0:18:01.590 --> 0:18:04.430 the Capitol was full of people. They didn't tell me 0:18:04.471 --> 0:18:07.071 at the time, but thank god they didn't tell me 0:18:07.071 --> 0:18:09.110 they were actually police snipers on the roofs of nearby 0:18:09.150 --> 0:18:11.711 buildings while I was out there for my minute in 0:18:11.751 --> 0:18:14.870 forty five seconds making the announcement. Someone later showed me 0:18:14.911 --> 0:18:17.311 photographs that were taken from the top of the Capitol, 0:18:17.311 --> 0:18:20.151 which is twenty two stories and you can clearly see 0:18:20.150 --> 0:18:22.951 a police sniper laying on his stomach on the roof 0:18:22.951 --> 0:18:25.311 of City Hall, just a block away from where I 0:18:25.471 --> 0:18:26.830 was making the announcement. 0:18:26.991 --> 0:18:28.671 Is it because they were getting threat threats? 0:18:29.191 --> 0:18:31.670 There were threats coming into all different places, the email 0:18:31.671 --> 0:18:34.471 threats that I've already told you about, threats to different offices. 0:18:34.671 --> 0:18:37.870 I know Catherine Harris was getting some serious threats. So 0:18:37.991 --> 0:18:41.910 the general atmosphere among those of us who were the 0:18:41.911 --> 0:18:44.870 public figures in mass you know, was we understood that 0:18:45.271 --> 0:18:48.150 there were crazy people who had become obsessed with this 0:18:48.191 --> 0:18:48.911 particular event. 0:18:49.791 --> 0:18:53.910 You stipulated that you didn't want to project fear or mistrust. 0:18:54.311 --> 0:18:56.630 Did you feel it? Did you feel fear? 0:18:57.830 --> 0:18:59.470 It was a frightening thing in a lot of ways 0:19:01.150 --> 0:19:04.431 going out onto the steps, particularly that evening in December eighth, 0:19:04.671 --> 0:19:07.751 when they had offered me the bulletproof vest. I think 0:19:07.751 --> 0:19:10.630 that scared me more than anything else. Dead this idea 0:19:10.671 --> 0:19:12.471 I have to wear a bulletproof vests. My god, what's 0:19:12.511 --> 0:19:16.151 going on here? That's not the Tallahassee, I know. And 0:19:16.911 --> 0:19:19.590 there was a moment I got out onto the you know, 0:19:19.911 --> 0:19:22.271 to the podium, and I began reading. I had these 0:19:22.311 --> 0:19:24.110 lights shining in my face, so I couldn't see the 0:19:24.110 --> 0:19:27.991 crowds very well because I was blinded, and there was 0:19:28.191 --> 0:19:31.551 a large piece of metallic equipment nearby that fell over. 0:19:32.191 --> 0:19:34.110 And the thought that went through my head at that 0:19:34.150 --> 0:19:36.950 particular point in time is my God, there's the bullet, 0:19:37.671 --> 0:19:39.470 you know. But I just at that point, I just 0:19:39.551 --> 0:19:42.710 kept reading and kept thinking of, well, if I can 0:19:42.751 --> 0:19:45.390 get through this, it's a minute in forty five seconds, 0:19:45.991 --> 0:19:49.390 then I'm okay. It was frightening in a lot of ways, 0:19:49.630 --> 0:19:52.271 but it was something that I also knew that needed 0:19:52.271 --> 0:19:53.471 to be done and had to be done. 0:19:54.511 --> 0:19:57.271 I know that you are not, in fact the embodiment 0:19:57.311 --> 0:19:58.630 of the Florida Stroom Court, and I know that you 0:19:58.630 --> 0:20:01.031 don't identify with it necessarily as if it's views and 0:20:01.031 --> 0:20:04.751 it's rulings are yours. But to the extent that you 0:20:04.830 --> 0:20:06.991 do work here, to the extent that you were the 0:20:07.071 --> 0:20:10.431 voice of it, did you have any feelings in response 0:20:10.511 --> 0:20:13.910 to the US Supreme Court issuing a stay and ending 0:20:13.911 --> 0:20:17.711 the thing that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to begin? 0:20:18.590 --> 0:20:22.271 When the U. S. Supreme Court issued its stay and 0:20:22.350 --> 0:20:25.071 the arguments that followed, I really got the impression that 0:20:25.110 --> 0:20:27.031 the US Supreme Court had been listening to the press 0:20:27.071 --> 0:20:30.950 too much, and to the spin machine in particular. I knew, 0:20:30.991 --> 0:20:33.391 because of the thirteen years I'd worked here that what 0:20:33.431 --> 0:20:36.511 the Florida Supreme Court was trying to do was apply 0:20:37.551 --> 0:20:40.431