WEBVTT - Inside "Inside ETFs," Part II 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.840 Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Weeber and I'm Eric bel Tunis. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.360 Eric is just back from inside E t F S 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.160 and Florida. What what is that again? Uh? You know, 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.160 it's the biggest et F conference I think around. People 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.200 go from the industry. It's in Hollywood, Florida, so it's 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.680 always like nice weather in February. Uh. And you've got 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:27.960 all kinds of people, you know, everybody from like Vanguard 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.160 and black Rock, right, two small issuers, to index makers, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.559 to the back office to advisors. Uh. And they all 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:36.599 just big trade show, big trade show. It's you know 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.320 again like last year, I called the Comic Con of ETFs. 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.479 So last year you took your microphone and we did 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.840 a little episode and this year it was a really 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:46.320 Last year it was fun. I like that one, so 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.000 we wanted to do it again. Yeah. No, I think 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.280 it's good. It's just a little little sound bites. And 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:52.520 when I'm walking around, I'm busy, but I can get 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.320 somebody for five minutes or less, and it's just a 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.200 convenient way for me to get take a swab and 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.000 try to uh, you know, give you a little taste 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.279 of what what you missed. That's nice. I like that. 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.959 What what was the theme of the Petrie dish this year? Um? 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.280 You know, again E s G is relentless. The issuers 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:10.920 are very excited about it. We'll go over that in 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.319 a minute. UM. I don't know how much the actual 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:15.760 investors like it, but um issuers are into E s G. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.800 There was some still, like I guess a little hangover 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.920 from x I V implosion and whether these exotic products 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.080 are suitable. UM was like a year ago, right, that 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.640 was a year ago, but there's still now there's downloads, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.440 defined outcome ets. There's still a lot of I don't know, 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.399 like power tool type products coming out UM. And then 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.039 there was I think a lot of Thematic was a 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.840 big one because again there's been some good money into 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.400 them ETF. So that's where a lot of the smaller 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.800 time people are excited, you know. And we have a 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.280 couple of clips, clips of people with you know, basically 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.640 an index, idea and a dream and they go to 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.760 this event to try to hook up with an issuer. Oh, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.640 by the way, since last year trillions was brand new 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:58.200 while you were at inside e TF, what do people 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.920 have to say this time? UM, so last year not 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:02.880 so much. Maybe one or two people this year a 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.400 lot more I think. You know, obviously issuers will take 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.239 notice because they want to come on and promote stuff. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.280 So I'm not taking all of it. It's not all 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.520 going to my head. But there was some one guy 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.400 in particular stop me and said, listen, I just was 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.320 moved over to the E t F team at this 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:19.280 big company, and um, I didn't know a lot and 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.040 I sort of listened to your podcast, and I gotta 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.040 tell you, like, I was not happy about being moved, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.959 but like your podcast really made it accessible fun, I 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.480 understand it better. And now I even got my wife 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.120 into it, and you know, she we both really love 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:36.200 the R two Dad's episode, which continues to resonate. Um, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.040 and that was really great. That was the one that 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.160 stuck out, and I was just like to get like 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.799 that kind of heartfelt compliment about it. Was nice. I 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:44.440 gotta tell you so, because we worked hard on this. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:51.680 So this time I'm trillions Comic Con of E t 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.000 F S Round two. All right, So you went around 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.920 inside et F with the microphone sticking in people's faces. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.600 Who were getting here from first? First is Ben Johnson 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.359 from Morning Starting. Now we heard from him last year. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.480 He is my peer, kind of my competitor, but he's 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.320 very articulate and um I just asked about a couple 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.840 of the bigger sort of themes that were being buzzed 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.000 out at the conference. The first one is on what 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.440 one of the main presentations was on was what comes 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.400 after the e t F? The e t F disrupted 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.120 the mutual fund? What's going to disrupt the e t F? 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.600 And Dave naten Egg and Matt Hogan speculated that the 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.640 disruptor would be something called direct indexing, where you just 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:31.000 basically fill out some form and you get a basket 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:33.079 of stocks that's right tier liking because the E t 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.920 F is sort of like you have to take what's there. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:38.040 But Ben is skeptical. Here's what he has to say. So, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:43.920 direct indexing is approach to creating portfolios that treats everyone 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:46.840 is the unique snowflake that they are, that creates a 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.240 very specific portfolio to meet their very specific leaves, which 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.520 in theories a great concept. It's an interesting concept, but 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:57.280 I think in reality it has the potential to walk 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.800 back a lot of the progress that investors have made 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.240 over the course of the past four plus decades, driving 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:09.000 towards ever lower fees, ever, greater transparency, less complexity across 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.880 the board, and fundamentally lower costs. So to the extent 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.320 that you take this wonderful rapper, the e t F 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.160 that we've all come down here to Florida to worship 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.440 too for every year for ten plus years now, I 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.800 think it could actually be detrimental to investors. That was 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.440 a rain cloud. Well on their presentation. He was sort 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.240 of saying, don't you know the e t F is 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.640 going nowhere? I know what he's saying. Look, you can 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.240 get an e t F now for four or five 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.559 whole You get a whole portfolio. The world's cheapest TTF 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.000 portfolio is now five basis points. That was another presentation. 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.360 That's an amazing thing. Direct indexing would cost more. The 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:47.120 selling and buying of the stocks would create potentially capital 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.360 gains which get are eliminated because the creation redemption mechanism 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.520 and the E t F. I agree with them. You 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.479 know what Ben was saying, and I agree is the 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.880 mass customization is your portfolio using E t S The 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:03.159 fact that you can get anything in the world now. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.320 He equated it to going to Chipotle and like picking 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.760 out all your ingredients, the ingredients or the E T 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:10.880 F s. What Dave and Matt were kind of saying 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.920 was like, maybe you want to like really get specific 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.480 about the pork, and maybe you wanted from a certain 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.800 you know, distributor with a certain uh, every ingredient of 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.360 that particular ingredient would be your customized to you. I 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.920 don't even think people care that much about that level 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.560 of detail. I think an E s G that is 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.599 maybe where they want that kind of customization because it 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:32.880 is so personal. But I think if your portfolio, i mean, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.200 look a total market, a total bond, I think most 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:37.920 people were just fine with that. Isn't it interesting though, 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.080 how the word direct has a little bit of buzz 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.320 to it because you know, in in I p O Land, 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.920 which is what you have historically done to go public, 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.920 Spotify last year did this direct listing thing and basically 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:50.239 said we don't need this I p O and cuts 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.400 out a bunch of fees and everything else, and and 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.520 it's a little similar and that it harnesses the fact 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.680 that at this day and age, people can just take 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.560 things to market places with a different vibe than they've 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.039 previously been able to. Yeah, there's just you know, the 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:05.960 fact that these e t f s are on in exchange. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.080 You can trade them there regulated by the SEC. They're 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:12.400 in a pretty prospectus rapping a lot of that official 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.360 nous and liquidity is don't It's gonna take a long 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.719 time for that to go away. But Matt and Dave 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.040 are as sharp as they get, and you know, you gotta. 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:25.080 Their presentation is always provocative, and it was again this year. 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.440 So it's food for thought. Okay, now we're gonna hear 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.960 from the legendary Paul Tutor Jones, who I um he 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.480 spoke and then Paul Tutor Jones, the hedge fund manager. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.040 Jones got Jones, Yeah, he was up there presenting on 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.479 e s G. He is all in on this. His 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.640 company has built an index that a Goldman Sachs et 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.560 F trap tracks with the ticker just and what I 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.520 found interesting about his presentation was he doesn't do e 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.240 s G like a lot of the funds, and a 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:52.880 lot of the funds have their own special way of 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.279 e s G. So I asked him about how he 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.320 kind of puts worker compensation above climate issues, which most 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.120 e s G might not do that, and that's why 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.960 Exxon lands in his e t F just which a 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.240 lot of people would be shocked at exons in your 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:08.880 E t F. He justifies why. Oh and by the way, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.240 if you hear some dishes in the background. I after 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.880 his presentation, I went backstage and uh, we had to 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:15.760 go into the kitchen area, so it could be a 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.840 little clangy back there. So just f why, Hey man, 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.120 I'm working hard for the team here. The biggest difference 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:23.200 between us and other e s g s we had 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.760 no negative screening. So we listen to American public. The 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.920 American public says climate changers are really important. But you 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:33.280 know what, someone making a living wage, having being treated well, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.800 having a decent income is two and a half times 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:40.080 support his climate change. And so again what we do 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.679 is we listen to American public, and just because someone 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.760 doesn't score great on climate change isn't a reason to 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.960 exclude them from other things they may be doing great. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.800 Exion is a great example. Exxon has the third highest 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.480 pay UH in the oil and gas industry and the 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.920 energy sector has the third and they have tenuere track 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:07.000 record of the greatest gender equity screening, so that they're 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.240 making sure they have a diverse, diverse workforce both on 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.600 race and gender, virtually anyone in that whole sector. So 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:18.320 it's not just about one event, it's about our one factor. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.600 It's about multiple factors. And that's why this is such 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.880 a great et F So I hadn't heard about just 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:25.840 what's your take on it when you look at what 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.840 it's holding are I? Well, look, I agree with him. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.480 I do think workers compensation, quality of life. He basically 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.160 showed a chart of what people think is most important 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.080 from companies, and that's how he designed it. And the 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.760 public is more concerned about workers compensation and treating people 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.880 nicely than they are about the climate right now. So 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.960 he's basically doing it structuring it that way. And I 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.959 gotta tell you, this guy was very convincing. Um that's 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.920 why he's probably such a success. The guy next to me, 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.360 he sat down, Um, he goes. I gotta be honest, 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:58.400 I was. I was pretty skeptical, but he kind of 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.280 sold me on this and I told him that afterwards. 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:03.120 He was pretty pleased by that. But just as off 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.240 to a good start. I think it's about two million. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.880 That probably ranks it in top seven biggest d S 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.120 g A t F S already. But he's ambitious. He 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.520 wants this to be you know, a huge e t 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:16.640 F billions of dollars. Uh. He's pretty aggressive, grassroots sounding 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.440 for you know, try. He wants to take the fight 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:20.640 to the c suite, make them hear people, and he 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:22.959 thinks that you know you're by investing in that way, 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.560 that's the best way to send them a message. And 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.720 Excellent is not one that you would maybe expect to haven. 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.840 And he has lens right, yes, And that is why 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.240 I find it so interesting. What else is in there? 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:36.480 You know, it's a lot of the tex stalks. Like 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:38.360 I looked at it recently, I think it's like Google's 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:42.520 in there. Um, you've got um apple. Most of them 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.000 are ones you tend to see. But again, Excellent sort 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.000 of you know, sticks out like a sore thumb. But 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.680 he just you know that he's in there for a reason, 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:57.319 according to him, who're gonna hear from? Next? Okay? Next 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.199 is Perth Toll. She is one of these people who 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.760 has an index in a dream. So she was there, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:04.800 you know, to do a lot of networking and she 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.120 just landed a deal to get her index with an 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.160 actual e t F and she found her first like 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.280 anchor tenant or client like seed capital. And so she 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.240 talked a little bit about what what this new ETF 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.280 will do. So she had the idea for an index, 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.400 and now she has to go around finding how do 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.720 I get a wrapper for this? Yeah? Her index is 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.880 freedom weighted Emerging Markets. Yeah, so we are instead of 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.200 market cap waiting the emerging markets, we freedom weight the 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.160 emerging markets, which means we're looking at seventy nine different 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:35.280 freedom variables and getting a UM composite country score and 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.559 using that country score UM that freedom level to wait 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.079 and select countries. So our country weights and country selection 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.440 comes from freedom waves in those countries. And that freedom 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.480 weight comes from UM three different categories of freedoms, the 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:50.280 rights of life, the rights of liberty, and the rights 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.480 of property. And what made you think of this? So 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.600 I grew up in China, and uh, I grew up, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:57.040 you know, half in China, half in the US, and 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.319 I saw some things. UM when I went back to 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.760 you know, live in Hong Kong and traveled a lot 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.800 to mainland China over that time. UM, that made me 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.360 realize that freedom was important for a market. And UM, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.880 I saw the difference between the mainland Chinese market and 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.720 the Hong Kong market and you know, frankly the US 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:20.040 market and just noticed that freedom has a huge impact 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.600 on market. So that's a fascinating idea that that markets 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.760 are better off when they're free, right, and that there's 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.280 different types of freedom that she's come up with. How 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.679 do you think that's gonna work in an e t 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.120 f Uh, We're gonna have to see she you know, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.160 she's basing it on the more freedom, the more democracy, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.000 the better capital markets do. So look, the performance will 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.320 probably drive most of the flows here, but I just 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.120 love that this is I love this part of the 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.600 ETF industry where somebody who has a real life experience 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.040 that's you know, across borders comes here and turns it 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.920 into an actionable idea. It's very Silicon Valley esque. And 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:57.679 you know, you don't get these kind of stories at 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.520 the big issuers very much. So there's a lot of 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.720 these small indies I call them who are just on 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.920 the grassroots with a you know, an idea, looking to 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.439 get it going. And you know a couple of them 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.800 will will become hits. So so you got like China, Mexico, Nigeria, 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.320 and how do you put all those together? Well, clearly, look, 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:18.960 most emerging markets ttfs are like twenty China. This will 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.200 be something else. There are some fundamentally weighted emerging market 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.440 tts or that do it different ways, where China is 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.960 a lower weight. UM, so I would imagine it would 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.240 look something more like that, and so you'd probably be 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.959 looking at if one of the countries that wasn't China 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.000 did really well, you would do better. My guess is 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.840 this thing kind of fluctuates and performance and it probably 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:40.920 will catch some people if it has a good run. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.400 But I do think that it's an E s G 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:46.559 play like it can appeal to the E s G 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.559 investor in the into the in terms of the emerging markets. Okay, 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.800 so we've talked to Ben and bottle Lightning with a 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.600 big idea. Who's next. Next up we have is Michael 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.240 Steele Um if you much MSNBCU, he's on a lot um. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.320 He's the he used to be the chairman of the GOP. 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.080 I believe he was there with Donna Brazil doing this 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.800 just sort of like political roundtable. Not for nothing. You've 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.760 got some names I did. He was pretty easy. He 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.040 came out after into the public sphere and a lot 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:17.360 of people were talking to him, and I just walked 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.200 up real quick and asked him. I had to ask 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.360 him about MAGA And you know, there's a MAGA et 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.559 F that invests in stocks that have heavy GOP donors. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.320 What do you think of that? I did not have 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.800 to check that out. Really really, that's a real thing. 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.240 That's a real thing. Yeah, God bless him. Is it? 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.400 Is it a good return? No? It has no Tech's 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.000 only industrials and energy, So yeah, without tech because they 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:48.200 don't they don't donate top so that you know tech. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.880 where we got Look, we can have a better relationship 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.080 with the tech community, for sure, because I think a 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.599 lot of the things is that the tech community is 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.440 concerned about. At least old school conservatives like myself would 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.920 be there advocating to support them, but it's kind of 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.840 hard these days. So dude didn't even know about MAGA. Yeah, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:07.320 he didn't know about it. I mean it's pretty small 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.000 e t F. But um, you know his reaction was 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.080 I think interesting. You know somebody who used to be uh, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.920 the GOP chairman, That is an interesting idea that that 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:18.040 would be the target market, right there is somebody like that. 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.760 It is also interesting that he understands why it wouldn't 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:24.520 have tech right, and it's so and it's a problem, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.120 and and and then it's a problem. I think it 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.880 was just really interesting. And maybe someday, someday MAGA will 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:35.720 have overweight tech. Who knows that'll be the day. Uh. 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.080 And if you want to learn more about MAGA, Rachel 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.080 Evans did a great episode with us where she went 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.600 and talked to the founder down in Texas, what what 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:52.920 instigated the idea and how it's constructed. Okay, so the 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.000 first guy that we talked to was Ben Johnson. You 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.200 talked to him more than once. What was what was 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.800 the next question that you asked him? I asked him 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.680 about the There was two big bombshell news that was 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.600 there's always somebody putting out news around the conference. Fidelity 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.000 and Schwab literally within an hour of each other, put 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.840 out news that they were increasing the amount of e 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.680 t s you could trade for free, because last year 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.720 Vanguard said you can basically trade all of them eighteen 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.840 hundred and everybody was like, oh my god. It was 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:19.440 like a bombshell. And so now Fidelity and Schwab said, okay, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.600 we're gonna up ours now you can trade five hundred 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.160 for free. I asked Ben about that and what he thought. 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.320 I think the important point for investors is to understand 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:32.160 that free is not free. That although it's a fantastic 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:36.760 thing that fees had been compressed to near zero levels, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.239 there's a handful of funds that charge nothing, that commissions 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.600 have gone away. In the case of an ever larger 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.840 list of e t s that the real risk here 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.040 is that they're an implicit costs that are hidden elsewhere. 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.600 So I think the first place you should look is 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.040 what are you learning on your cash account, what are 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.640 you earning on your money market account, and how does 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:02.280 that stack up relative to say an online savings account. Okay, 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.400 so that's interesting. Yeah, again, you know low cost e 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.680 t f s low cost you're free trading. There's a 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.440 bit of a loss leader angle to this. They're trying 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.360 to get you into do other things. He made a 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.280 good point that if you're doing free trading and using 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.400 their platform, and like you have a cash account there, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.720 look at how much you're getting on that cash account 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.240 and compare it elsewhere. That's one thing. The other thing 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.600 is did e t F that trade for free on 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.720 schwab and fidelity other places they are paid a play. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.240 So a lot of those issuers are giving them money 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.160 to make them free trading their subsidizing that, and they 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.200 picked the e t f s to push that. They 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.320 don't have as much assets, so a lot of times 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.240 the ones that are free aren't the ones you that 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.560 might be most popular, that you might want. So it's 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:46.760 another thing to look out for. You know. Another thing 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.240 that I was wondering about Eric last year, Uh, you 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.080 had to go up on stage and make a pitch 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.080 about something. Oh God, you didn't do well? What how 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.880 did you do this year? Not good? What happened? I 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.160 don't know what it is? And what's the format? What 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.400 are you guys? What are you doing? It's Uh, it's 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.600 basically called Battle of the Pundance and we all make 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.159 a case for the best new e TF launch. We 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.640 have two minutes. Somebody's assigned to rebut you for one minute, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.639 and then you have thirty second response and then the 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.960 audience cheers. The cheering of the audiences decides the winner. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.120 And I don't know, it's probably middle of the I'm 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.760 always middle of the pack. Um, what was your pick? 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.840 What was your opony? This year? I picked a A 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.240 A U a new gold ETF from Perth, and I 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:27.840 picked it because it it's a cheap, it's physically it's 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.479 physically backed, it's backed by the Australian Government. It's it's 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.560 just it's got a lot of features, it's low cost, 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.720 and I really wanted to talk about how I think 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.760 gold is misunderstood. So I made the case for gold 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.679 and the e t F. But who took you down? Uh? 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.240 The person Dave not A had me and he his his. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.200 The two things he said weren't that hard to overcome. 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:48.720 But I just got a little flustered. Again. I was 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.000 running on empty at that point because it was later 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.600 in the conference, and uh, right afterwards, I was like, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.920 I had the two responses have been perfect, but I 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.520 just didn't work out. And I think that's where I 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.320 lost some points. Is responding to his rebut all I 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.679 was just a little Yeah, I was on my I 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.440 was on my back heels a little. Yeah. So you 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.320 were focused on getting interviews. But the highlight obviously was 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.040 clearly Todd Rosenbluth did a actual rap. Yeah, he did 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.240 quality et F and he and he did a rap 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.879 about it is hilarious. There is if you go to 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.199 his h If you go to his Twitter account, he 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:22.160 posted some video of it and it's pretty much musty TV. Yeah, 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:30.440 graded one of them and Walhart I still loving pretty good. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.560 This is where you wanted can join in again. Matt 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:37.680 Hogan one. He always wins. This guy could sell ice 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.320 to Eskimos. I think he could win doing x I V. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:42.399 I think he'd go up there right now do x 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.399 IV and beat all of us. I will say it 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:45.960 is kind of like a home game for him. This 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:50.120 is like playing Tom Brady at Gillette Stadium. Okay, but 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.159 he's he's just the reigning champ. He's the Tom Brady 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.280 of this format. And I'm I'm good at other things, 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.600 but I just this this particular format. I just never 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.880 feel comfortable. You're good at asking for questions? What other 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.920 what other questions did you ask? Okay? So I didn't 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.400 get to interview Michael lewis per se, but I did 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.600 turn the mic on when he was speaking with Barry 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:11.920 red Holts on stage, So this audio isn't quite as good. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.120 But there's two things I thought were interesting. The first 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.359 was on um, you know how he said the markets 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.520