Speaker 1: Hey, remember the Green New Deal. Well you probably don't
Speaker 1: because so many people have been saying for so long
Speaker 1: it's dead on arrival. But today on Parts Pavilion, we
Speaker 1: talk about why reports of the Green New Deal's demise
Speaker 1: may be greatly exaggerated. Hello, and welcome back once again
Speaker 1: to Parts Pervilion, the environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm
Speaker 1: your host David Schultz. When the Green New Deal was
Speaker 1: introduced in twenty nineteen, it didn't exactly take the world
Speaker 1: by storm. Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell forced a preliminary
Speaker 1: vote on it early last year, and back then it
Speaker 1: garnered precisely zero votes. Since then, the Green New Deal
Speaker 1: has been basically dormant. So given that, you'd be forgiven
Speaker 1: for thinking like I did, that this huge legislative package,
Speaker 1: full of measures that fight climate change and boost the
Speaker 1: clean energy industry was basically dead. But according today's guest
Speaker 1: environmental reporter Dean Scott, that's not how things work on
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. Just because the bill doesn't have much or
Speaker 1: any momentum doesn't mean it can't have an impact on politics,
Speaker 1: sometimes a profound one, And in fact, we saw this
Speaker 1: just last night when Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey beat back
Speaker 1: a primary challenge largely thanks to his foundational support of
Speaker 1: the you guessed it, Green New Deal. We spoke to
Speaker 1: Dean this morning about the future of this environmental legislation,
Speaker 1: how it might fare if Democrats sweep this November's elections,
Speaker 1: and about where exactly the Green New Deal came from.
Speaker 1: So the Green New Deal has its origins in the
Speaker 1: Sunrise movement, which is a big progressive climate change group
Speaker 1: young activists. Basically, it's a movement that's closely aligned with
Speaker 1: AOC Alexandria Colzu Cortes, and it basically it started with
Speaker 1: an idea of getting public officials, which largely trans laid
Speaker 1: into Democrats, to endorse something that what went far enough
Speaker 1: to actually address the challenge of climate change. Not an
Speaker 1: effort from activists to put something on the table that
Speaker 1: could be watered down or a place where both parties
Speaker 1: might end up on incremental changes that address climate change
Speaker 1: in planetary warming around the margins, but something akin to
Speaker 1: Roosevelt's package of multiple pieces of legislation in the nineteen
Speaker 1: thirties to address a depression in the US economy. So
Speaker 1: it's been around for a couple of years now, and
Speaker 1: it has been tied repeatedly to primaries, but also races,
Speaker 1: and even to the point where Republicans have tried to
Speaker 1: brand it as something that's a little too aggressive and
Speaker 1: too far left to ever be implemented in the United States, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that was my perception of it, that
Speaker 1: it kind of sunk like a lead balloon. You know.
Speaker 1: It's because I've heard Republicans constantly use this as sort
Speaker 1: of a cudgel against Democrats, saying like this is insane.
Speaker 1: They want to, you know, completely reshape our economy and
Speaker 1: ban fossil fuels altogether. And but I get that we
Speaker 1: were talking about this yesterday that it actually is not
Speaker 1: as irrelevant as I was thinking. Can you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about that. Sure, within the context of political races,
Speaker 1: we've seen the Green New Deal be kind of important
Speaker 1: in a number of races, particularly in democratic primaries. What's
Speaker 1: become fascinating is this has gone in just a matter
Speaker 1: of a couple years from a platform that was derided
Speaker 1: as too aggressive, too far reaching, trying to make the
Speaker 1: US carbon neutral, making the US completely reliant on clean energy,
Speaker 1: wind and solar, in the matter of a decade of
Speaker 1: providing clean energy jobs for millions, and the thinking was, well,
Speaker 1: where is all this money going to come from? And
Speaker 1: so I think part of what's happened is two things
Speaker 1: have happened that are really key. One is the problems
Speaker 1: with the US economy this year in response to the
Speaker 1: pandemic and the stay at home orders and all that
Speaker 1: have really raised the question of how are you going
Speaker 1: to put tens of millions of people back to work
Speaker 1: who are unemployed. The other part where it's having a
Speaker 1: big impact is the Green New Deal is going to
Speaker 1: be back in twenty twenty one. And by that I
Speaker 1: mean it has pulled one whole political party, Democrats, to
Speaker 1: the left on climate change. And so where as maybe
Speaker 1: a year or two ago, the thought was if Democrats
Speaker 1: had the levers of power, if the Democrats hold the
Speaker 1: House and Senate and Joe Biden wins the White House,
Speaker 1: then both parties will try to come together, or at
Speaker 1: least Democrats will try to pick off enough Republicans and
Speaker 1: move something that can get done, which by its nature
Speaker 1: would be kind of moderate on climate change. But I
Speaker 1: think what's going to happen is Democrats themselves are going
Speaker 1: to have a hard time supporting something that's that incremental,
Speaker 1: because the Green New Deal has been effective at pulling
Speaker 1: that party to the left, and those activists aren't going
Speaker 1: to be happy with something that just doesn't really address
Speaker 1: the fundamental causes of climate change. That was something we
Speaker 1: were talking about that yesterday and it really surprised me.
Speaker 1: But it makes a lot of sense that, you know,
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal is almost like a starting position
Speaker 1: in a negotiation, and it's so it was so radical
Speaker 1: that it sounds like Democrats if and when they maybe
Speaker 1: get control of the government next year, possibly depending on
Speaker 1: what happens with the elections, they can't really go that
Speaker 1: far back from their initial starting position. Is that essentially
Speaker 1: what's going on. Yeah, And as an example of this,
Speaker 1: roughly one hundred House Democrats endorse the Green New Deal,
Speaker 1: and in the last i would say year or so,
Speaker 1: they picked up the support of just over six Democratic
Speaker 1: chairmen of different committees. Now, few people expect the House
Speaker 1: to flip Republican that seems relatively solid that it would
Speaker 1: be still in the hands of Democrats. The difference is
Speaker 1: you have all those people, even in leadership positions in
Speaker 1: a sense in the House endorsing the Green New Deal.
Speaker 1: But the difference would be in January is if they
Speaker 1: control the Senate and Joe Biden is in the White House,
Speaker 1: then the thing that they endorse is now something that
Speaker 1: they'll have to wrestle with. And to me, that suggests
Speaker 1: it doesn't suggest that the Green New Deal is going
Speaker 1: to become law certainly anytime soon, but it is going
Speaker 1: to mean the conversation is going to be pulled from
Speaker 1: both polar opposites in a sense, one side all the
Speaker 1: enthusiasm for doing something dramatic. The other side on the
Speaker 1: far right of the Republican Party, the side of the
Speaker 1: party that contends that climate change is either not the
Speaker 1: existential challenge that a lot of scientists say it is,
Speaker 1: or feel that it's too costly to go down this road,
Speaker 1: particularly if we were in a recession. We're going to
Speaker 1: have two ends of a barbell, essentially, and we could
Speaker 1: have some teetering back and forth of what solutions or
Speaker 1: realistic solutions look like. We're going to take a quick
Speaker 1: break right now, but when we come back, we'll get
Speaker 1: into how Ed Markey used the Green New Deal to
Speaker 1: save his seat in Congress, and my other threatened Democrats
Speaker 1: may not be able to replicate a strategy stay with us.
Speaker 1: So before we get into sort of how this is
Speaker 1: playing out at the ballot box, let's talk about what's
Speaker 1: actually in the package. You know, this is a legislative package.
Speaker 1: It exists on paper. Can you give me like two
Speaker 1: or three different you know, provisions that are in the
Speaker 1: Green New Deal that would maybe have the biggest impact, Sure,
Speaker 1: the biggest. You know that the top line message of
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal is to get the US at
Speaker 1: the forefront of cutting off its reliance on fossil fuels
Speaker 1: and to curb greenhouse gas emissions, but also to guarantee
Speaker 1: some jobs in the clean energy industries. In other words,
Speaker 1: that's the New Deal reference to Roosevelt's era, which is
Speaker 1: to put people back to work. And that second part
Speaker 1: about employing people doesn't get talked about as much with
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal, but it makes a really strong
Speaker 1: argument that we need a lot of the kinds of
Speaker 1: jobs in the clean energy sector. So something I just
Speaker 1: thought of is that, you know, the Green New Deal
Speaker 1: would not be great for the fossil fuel industry. You know,
Speaker 1: it seems like this would be the government really you know,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better word, putting its finger on
Speaker 1: the scales in terms of favoring the clean energy industry.
Speaker 1: As we know, as we've discussed in this podcast numerous times,
Speaker 1: the fossil fuel prices are at record lows. Oil companies
Speaker 1: are going bankrupt left and right. Does the fossil fuel
Speaker 1: industry have the clout or the strength to fight something
Speaker 1: like this. It's interesting the you're seeing in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years. For example, big big oil companies Exon
Speaker 1: some of the others have moved in many cases lower
Speaker 1: and lower or even off some of the top stock
Speaker 1: indexes by which we sort of measure who are the
Speaker 1: big movers and shakers in the US economy. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: there was a time pre iPhone, before the ascendancy of Apple,
Speaker 1: when Xon was the most valuable company in the world.
Speaker 1: That was not even twenty years ago. That's right. And
Speaker 1: keeping in mind that too many times when people think
Speaker 1: about this question of whether whether fossil fuels are somehow
Speaker 1: losing clout, they focus maybe too often on big oil,
Speaker 1: the big oil and gas companies. But in many states
Speaker 1: in the US, particularly in Oklahoma, Texas, these are the
Speaker 1: companies that are doing the drilling and in some cases
Speaker 1: even the refining our small companies, and that makes an
Speaker 1: argument to their elected officials that these are jobs that
Speaker 1: are out there that would have to be replaced somehow
Speaker 1: and an important industry to many of those states. So
Speaker 1: that makes it challenging to do anything that sort of
Speaker 1: sidelines of the fossil fuel industries because in states like
Speaker 1: West Virginia, Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, the energy sector, the fossil
Speaker 1: fuel sector, is going to continue to have clout with
Speaker 1: those elected representatives, and you start picking off those states
Speaker 1: one by one. Pretty soon you have a decent number
Speaker 1: of folks on the side of the argument say we
Speaker 1: can't go too far. We have a lot of jobs
Speaker 1: to contend, and they're going to dig their heels in
Speaker 1: when it comes to doing anything that makes it even
Speaker 1: more difficult for fossil fuels to compete. Finally, let's talk
Speaker 1: about the politics of all of this, and one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you
Speaker 1: today Senator ed Marky from Massachusetts. He had a primary
Speaker 1: challenge in Joe Kennedy, the grandson of Robert Kennedy. Earlier
Speaker 1: this summer he was pretty far down in the polls,
Speaker 1: and he reversed that pretty dramatically. And one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why is because he received the endorsement from AOC
Speaker 1: and Alexandero Cosio courtes of course, and sort of rebranded
Speaker 1: himself as an eco warrior and cited his support of
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal as a part of his environmental credentials.
Speaker 1: And as we found out last night, he was victorious.
Speaker 1: He'll get to keep, probably keep his Senate seat thanks
Speaker 1: to all of that. Dean, I have to imagine that,
Speaker 1: you know, other Democrats, especially veteran Democrats, are seeing that
Speaker 1: and are saying that worked for him, maybe they'll work
Speaker 1: for me. Is that the case? Yeah? And I think
Speaker 1: one thing that's important to remember is, of course Ed
Speaker 1: Markey is is heavily favored to win against his Republican
Speaker 1: opponent Kevin O'Connor in the general. Right, So we're not
Speaker 1: talking about a race, let's say, in a state like
Speaker 1: Virginia that's a little more purple to blue, where it
Speaker 1: could hurt a candidate like Ed Markey to move or
Speaker 1: or to accentuate his his his progressive accomplishments and views.
Speaker 1: Right this, Yeah, this is a state. This is a
Speaker 1: state where the primary is it that's the race that's right.
Speaker 1: So basically, if Marky defeated Kennedy as he did last night,
Speaker 1: then he pretty much has assumed to win. So that's
Speaker 1: that's a little bit different than other states. But I
Speaker 1: will say this Marky, it's it's not talked about as
Speaker 1: much as it should be. Is that Ed Markey had
Speaker 1: a He basically had a playbook on climate change and
Speaker 1: a record on it. Has been going after fossil fuels,
Speaker 1: talking about what big oil is or isn't doing to
Speaker 1: help America in terms of keeping prices down for consumers
Speaker 1: when gas was back at four dollars plus a gallon
Speaker 1: back in the two thousand and seven twenty ten era.
Speaker 1: So he's been on this issue for a long time.
Speaker 1: That's why his record on climate change, which dates back
Speaker 1: to him really was basically the co author of the
Speaker 1: Captain Trade bill in the House. He had that kind
Speaker 1: of critical experience or record which was made it possible
Speaker 1: for Alexandria Cosio Cortez to work with him in the
Speaker 1: first place in co authoring the Green New Deal. So
Speaker 1: when they know they work on a sort of big,
Speaker 1: big rollout of the Green New Deal. Once AOC won
Speaker 1: two years ago, he was a natural person to go
Speaker 1: to in the Senate when she needed someone in the
Speaker 1: Senate by her side. So there was a natural sort
Speaker 1: of fit there. The fascinating part for Markie is that
Speaker 1: he was able to use that AOC support Okazio Coortez
Speaker 1: brought along with her the folks from the Sunrise Movement,
Speaker 1: the young people who want dramatic changes on the climate front.
Speaker 1: Was able to really point to them and say, look,
Speaker 1: the young people and the young people who want actual
Speaker 1: climate change, they support me, not Joseph P. Kennedy. That's
Speaker 1: what made it really possible, I think in the end
Speaker 1: for him to reject what could have been a really
Speaker 1: strong effort by Kennedy. But it certainly was a race
Speaker 1: that really showed us sort of in a in a
Speaker 1: in it was almost like a classroom exercise of how
Speaker 1: the Green New Deal can be used, at least for
Speaker 1: now by folks running for office from the Democratic side
Speaker 1: to to push their selves on the way to victory.
Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode of Parts per Billion. If
Speaker 1: you want more environmental news, check out our website Newstop
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Environment dot com. That website, once again is Newstop
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Environment dot Com. Today's episode of Parts per Billion
Speaker 1: was produced by myself and Josh Block. Parts Pavilion was
Speaker 1: created by Jessica Coombs and Rachel Daegel. Music for today's
Speaker 1: episode is a message by Jazar and thug by Brian
Speaker 1: Lawrence Bennett. If you used under a Creative Commons license.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Those nine justices in Washington that can
Speaker 1: be pretty hard to keep track up. That's where we
Speaker 1: come in. I'm Jordan Rubin and I'm Kimberly Robinson. On
Speaker 1: our podcast Cases and Controversies, we give you a week
Speaker 1: by week accounting of the Supreme Court, the filings, the arguments,
Speaker 1: the opinions, and much much more. So. Check in on
Speaker 1: Fridays with Cases and Controversies to find out what's coming
Speaker 1: up on the horizon at the Supreme Court. Download and
Speaker 1: subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.