WEBVTT - Donnie Vincent: Hunting, Hard Things, and the Mindset That Gets You Through Storms 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.120 In order to weather storms, not only in the Arctic, 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.640 but in life, you have to put yourself in the storm. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.400 I literally hike two miles to come arrow this. 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.639 Doctor, and it's the best meal you've ever had in 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.079 your life. I am freezing cold the entire time. I 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.200 hiked more than I'd ever hiked in my life, and 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.080 I was like, that was awesome. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.280 Through your curiosities and our engagements and your questions, it 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:33.560 just was going to allow me to dive deeper into 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.200 the things that I pulled most. 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:45.560 Dear to my heart, Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:48.879 Michael Easter. I am really thrilled about this podcast. We 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.760 are now on episode two. We're off and rolling today. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.560 We have an amazing episode. But before we get in, 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:56.800 if you are unfamiliar with me, you might have seen 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.280 me on The Joe Rogan Experience, or the Hubanman Lab 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.920 podcast or various TV shows. My background, I'm a health 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.080 and adventure journalist. I've been doing this for twenty years. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.200 I started at Men's Health. I was a professor for 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.520 seven years, and then I ended up writing the books 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.840 The Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brain, which became best sellers, 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:18.080 and The Thrust of my work is it improving your life. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.080 It often takes doing hard things. So this is what 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.959 this podcast is about. Now. Our name comes from a 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.280 study that found that two percent of people take the 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.400 stairs when there's also an escalator available, only two percent. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.880 I would argue one hundred percent of people knew that 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.039 taking the stairs would be better for their long term 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.600 health and well being, Yet ninety eight percent of people 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.200 choose to do the easier, more effortless things. So what 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.160 we're trying to do is we're trying to build a 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.280 tribe of two percenters that are willing to take on 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.200 challenges big and small in their life to improve in 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.760 the long run. Today we're talking to Donnie Vincent. Donnie 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.760 is a backcountry bow hunter and filmmaker who travels into 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:02.600 the world's most remote extreme areas for months at a time, 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.720 and he makes these movies and I like to describe 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.160 them as being a lot like the Planet Earth series, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.680 except they happen to have hunting. And he's really changing 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.200 the face of hunting and how it is perceived. He's 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.280 thinking about ethics, he's thinking about the life cycle and 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.079 where our food comes from. He's thinking about conservation, he's 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.920 thinking about what extended time in wild places doing hard 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.400 things does for the human body, mind, and spirit. Now. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.240 I first met Donnie when I was an editor at 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.560 Men's Health magazine. I ended up profiling him for the magazine. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.280 We become very fast friends, and then he ends up 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:46.480 calling me like months later. He goes, Michael, I'm going 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:50.040 up to the Arctic on an extreme and dangerous hunt 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.280 for more than a month. Do you want to come along. 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.600 We're going to see grizzly bears and climb ancient mountains, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.760 and it is going to be the most epic adventure 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.560 a human being has ever go on. So I said yes, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.240 and then I find myself up in the Arctic. We 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.840 have this amazing, incredible adventure that tested me in every 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.240 single way. But I will tell you this, I came 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.640 out the other side a better person, and Donnie was 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.840 a key guide in getting me to realize the value 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.480 of challenge. During that stint up in the Arctic, we 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.720 had all these moments up there, like when a storm 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:23.919 would roll in. We had this one time we were 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.520 camped on a hillside and this crazy windstorm rolls in 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.840 and it almost totally destroys our camp. And I was 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.400 freaking out because if you lose your tent in the Arctic, 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.360 you are screwed, Like you are absolutely screwed. But Donnie 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.560 just went into like, yeah, solve the problem mode. He 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.400 was calm, he got everything fixed. It was just like 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.200 watching him made me realize, Oh, in order to weather storms, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.000 not only in the Arctic, but in life, you have 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.160 to put yourself in the storm because that is where 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.360 you figure out how to live, how to improve, and 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.400 how to be a better person. So that's what we're 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.480 going to talk to Donnie about. So with that all said, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.560 let's welcome Donnie, Donna Vincent. Welcome to two percent. 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.119 Dude, this is I mean, I'm beyond honored to sit 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.120 down and talk with you. Obviously we're friends, but this 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:11.880 is different different. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.000 What was your reaction to getting an email from an 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.559 editor at Men's Health. 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.560 Yeah, somebody just asked me this the other day that 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:22.760 had just read The Comfort Crisis and they asked how 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.080 you found me, and I said, I actually don't know 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.840 if you were asking around and my name popped up. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:33.440 But first of all, I get asked almost daily by 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.839 someone if they can join me on a hunt, whether 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:41.279 that be you know, a military guy, a kid, a parent, whatever, 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.000 But yeah, I don't know, just the professionalism in which 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.200 you went about it, and even in your email, there 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.440 was an instant seriousness to it that you were your 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:53.839 curiosity was real. 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:56.320 You weren't trying to get a free hunt out of it. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.840 Not that not that anyone else is either, but your 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.320 you're curious was real. It was honest. 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.120 Yeah, and that was in Nevada. That would have been 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:09.200 what twenty nineteen, that was in El Kunt. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.520 Yeah, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, something like that. 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.920 Yeah, So for this men's hell story, we go hunting 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:14.680 in Nevada. And I will say this, I was coming 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.760 from Las Vegas and it was hot as hell in 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.360 Vegas and we get up to about eleven thousand feet. 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.760 I am freezing cold the entire time. I was hungry 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.400 the entire time. I hiked more than I'd ever hiked 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:29.200 in my wife, and it was absolutely rough. But I 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.680 came home and I was like, that was awesome, And 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.360 it gave me the seed of an idea of asking, well, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.159 why was that such a valuable experience, which eventually led 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.480 me to pitching The Comfort Crisis to a publisher. They 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.960 said yes, But then I had to make the big 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.040 ask of asking you, hey, man, can I go on 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.480 one of these crazy month long hunts you go on? 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.080 So I asked you and you said yes. Why did 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:55.760 you say yes? 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.560 But honestly, Michael, the questions you were asking me in 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.440 nova that I struggle to answer because I remember specifically 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.920 one morning we were sitting up and it was kind 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:07.920 of chilly out and you're asking me. I've told this 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.159 story before, but you're like, hey, are you cold? And 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:11.800 I said, yeah, I'm cold, and you said, well, you 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.680 don't look cold. And you said that you were cold, 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.360 but you said that you yourself were cold and you look 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.240 like you were cold. I was also cold, and you said, 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:23.920 but how come you don't look cold? And I was just, well, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.960 it's just I'm I know, you know, the sun's coming up, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:27.760 We're gonna warm up. 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.200 I have extra clothes, whatever it is. 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.240 But then you started asking me questions about hunting and 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:33.799 things that I thought were going to be a slam 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:35.799 dunk to answer, you know, like why do you hunt? 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:37.800 And why do you think we hunt? And these were 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.479 questions that I really struggled to answer with you, and 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:45.640 you know, and I could anecdotally hit elements of it 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.279 that I enjoyed watching the sun come up, or you know, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.800 listening to animals or watching animals. I could strike on 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:55.240 these little points but really not dive into the seriousness 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.839 and what it means. And then when we parted ways 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.080 and you brought the project of the humpt Crisis to me, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.200 I just took it as this is this is a 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.200 project that is going to this It's going to allow 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.440 me to learn more about myself and more about being 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.840 a hunter, and more through through your curiosities and our 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.720 engagements and your questions and things that you find uncomfortable 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.520 and comfortable. And it just was going to allow me 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.720 to dive deeper into the things that I hold most 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:24.840 dear to my heart. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.800 What do you remember most from our hunts in Alaska? 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.720 I mean, I remember a lot of things, but I 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.480 remember I mean, honestly, probably the thing that is more 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:39.640 most striking to me was how uncomfortable you were to 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.680 take your first animal, which meant the world to me 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.120 because it's really uncomfortable for me to take an animal, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.960 and rarely do I see that in another And I'm 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.880 not saying that other guys don't feel that. I think 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.480 they do. I think a lot of us bury it, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.120 hide it, you know, whether it be on camera to 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.520 our buddies or whatever. But you didn't have the position 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.120 or the wherewithal to bury it or hide it. You 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.320 just fricking it was out. And I appreciated it very much. 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.200 The uncomfortability that you went through, and also the uncertainty. 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.200 I remember the tarmac with the airplanes. I remember you 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:21.200 realizing that I wasn't joking. We are flying out in little, 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:26.120 tiny airplanes with pilots that are very skilled, but holding 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.080 no control over the weather or what is going to happen. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:33.160 And so those are those are very defining moments for me. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.000 When you took your animal and then the flight out. 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.280 Yeah, totally. I mean I remember so much of that 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.600 trip and think about it all the time. But to 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:44.640 your point about taking an animal, let me just say, 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:46.439 if you're listening and you have any qualms with hunting, 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.760 we're going to get into Donnie's worldview about hunting, which 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.960 I think is really nuanced and important. But I'll say this, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.520 after I took that animal, I definitely went through I 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:03.400 was totally sad. I was angry at you guys for 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.880 a minute. I was. I mean, it was just all 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.439 these emotional swings. But eventually, after going through that, I 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:12.600 think I started to understand, Oh, this is why Donnie 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.680 does what he does. And had you not because I 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.920 remember your position on that was you don't have to hunt. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.800 I'm not going to make you hunt. At the same time, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.959 I think you would understand this greater topic that you're 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.200 writing about if you were to hunt, And so for me, 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.840 I trusted you on that, and immediately after I go, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.760 why did I trust this son of a bitch, Like, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.960 I think, this is the worst thing I've ever done 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.640 in my life. I'm never coming back from this. But 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.440 then afterwards I got it, and that just totally changed 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:42.520 me in a lot of ways. 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.200 Yeah, you could live. You could have calm just like 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:46.959 you did in the vat. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:47.600 You could have. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.960 Calme and written the story and written the book about 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.199 the things that we were doing from the outside of 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.600 the fire, if you will. But if you wanted to 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.679 truly dive into an experience and have those emotions well up, 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.920 you you were going to have to take an animal's life. 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:07.320 And I specifically remember your sadness, I specifically remember your anger. 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:10.120 I also remember. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:18.440 When we were caribou their faces even when they're alive, 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.679 when they were close to you, when you see their 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.840 eyes and their big, huge bulbous nostrils, they are a 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.679 very sweet looking animal there. People always like to use 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:33.160 this word. It has no position in wilderness and wildlife, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:34.440 but people like to say they're in it. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.000 They have an innocence about them. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.840 They look like a creature that could do no harm. 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.480 They look like a curious animal. They almost have eyes. 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.080 They have looks like your dog might look at you. 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.600 But I remember when you took that animal's life, and 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.000 you took a fine bowl, an old bowl. That's what 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:53.640 we do, that's how we try and do it. We 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:55.520 try to remove animals from the herd that are gonna 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.240 have very little impact on the herd. And I remember 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.360 when you took that bowl. The quietness that the Arctic brings, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.920 other than a little bit of wind is it's very, 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.280 very haunting you. There's nothing as far as you can 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:16.160 see other than pure wilderness, some mountains, some trees, rivers, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.880 but there's nothing as far as you can see. There's 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.080 a true aloneness that you feel there other than the 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.160 people that you share that time with. And then your 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.600 bowl was laying there, you know, there's a melancholy piece 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.679 to this. And then I remember when we started skinning 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.400 your bowl and you started to see, you know, dare 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.520 I say, meat products that you also have seen in 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:40.480 the grocery store. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:42.400 I remember you were like. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.960 Oh, now that the skin's off, Now that we're breaking 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.720 the animal down, it's starting to look like steaks. And 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.360 then I saw you kind of go oh. And I 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.160 still to this day if I kill a moose or 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.920 a black bear and you walk up on it, there's 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.640 a sadness to it. And you start breaking the animal down, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.480 you start doing the work. You start earning these calories 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.400 that you're going to have this winter or over the 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.080 summer or whatever it is. You start getting the blood 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.240 on your hands and feeling the weight in your backpack, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:16.960 and it starts to transition into a workload that is, 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.960 you know, quite an investment and a respect that you 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.520 have for wild places. 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.800 Yeah. I think that's a good segue and to talk 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.120 about kind of your overall worldview on hunting, because hunting 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:32.679 is obviously controversial among a lot of people. Yeah, so 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.200 how do you think about that and how do you 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.880 have conversations with people who may be anti hunting. Maybe 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.360 vegetarian or vegan. What do those look like? And how 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:42.559 do you sort of shape that. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.160 It's in a manner of what you carry yourself in. 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.199 It isn't smoking mirrors that there isn't this position of 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.679 you have to dance around the subject matter or come 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:57.800 up with clever sentences or clever statements to sell what 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.920 you're doing. It is who we were as a people, 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:06.360 and ecosystems do very very well to be hunted. 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:07.680 Most do anyway. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.920 And obviously human beings have encroached into a lot of 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.720 wild areas and we've pressured a lot of game in 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.240 different areas where some animals are going extinct, and then 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.679 some other animals that do very well in near human beings, 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.920 like the white tailed deer are exploding and neither numbers 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.000 taken down by hunters or else. There's just an immense 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.640 amount of car collisions and things like that. If you 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.880 want to carry yourself in a manner that is going 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.960 to engage good conversation with non hunters or anti hunters, 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.680 or vegetarians, vegans, whatever it is. People love when things 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.120 are black and white, but nothing actually is black and white. 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.880 We live in the gray position, and so we better 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.600 carry ourselves and be open for thoughtful questions around saying 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.720 because you might get asked the question Michael that actually 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.280 changes your thought process and might actually make you think 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.280 about a process that you're doing that you may maybe 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:00.840 shouldn't be. 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:01.600 When I think. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:07.000 Hunting right now, particularly everything on social media is grandiose. 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.160 People that call themselves hunters right now, and some of 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.880 the things that they do are very difficult to justify 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.520 and very difficult to kind of contemplate because it isn't 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.880 man versus beast, it isn't man versus wild. This is 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.240 an immersion of who we are. And there's a big 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.160 difference between conquering a land and shooting a limit, and 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.280 then there is kind of becoming one with predator and 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.480 prey and really enveloping yourself in the natural world. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.760 Yeah, and you've made the point. You know, if a 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:42.600 person eats me, typically the buy in is to go 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.600 to the grocery store and buy me that's you know, 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:51.920 prepackaged looks all nice, but they don't really know where 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.000 it came from, what the animal live like, all these 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.720 other important things. Don't really have a selection over that. 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.800 And you've pointed out, well, I actually know those things 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.280 you know, I know how old this animal was. I 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.640 know was it close to the end of its life? 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.760 Where did it come from? How did it live? And 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.560 so you said that we're kind of inserting yourself, and 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.760 you're able to insert yourself and kind of I think 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.520 make decisions that fundamentally change. How do you think about 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.240 where your food come from? Comes from? In a world 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.600 where most people, including myself, most things I hate, I 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:27.280 have no idea. M M. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.920 Yeah. I think we as a people, and I mean 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.240 myself is included. Like if I need something today, if 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.600 I need to, if I'm might have broccoli for dinner, 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.640 and you know I don't have a garden going right now. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:41.200 If I need broccoli for dinner, I'm going to go 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.440 buy that broccoli. And I'm going to go to the 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.120 grocer store and I'm going to try to get the 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:49.720 best quality items that I can. But the reality is, 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.960 you know, we don't live a lifestyle. Some people do 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:57.720 that are truly off grade, But we don't live a 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:02.200 lifestyle that lends itself to getting everything in this manner. 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:05.160 But I think it's much more who you are as 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.400 a person, how you live your life. And I think 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.840 the more we hunt, the more we gather, the more 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.320 we grow, the more we envelope ourselves in wild places 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.760 and are getting outside and experiencing the wild world. And 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.800 some of the things that you discovered in the comfort 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.960 crisis when you went back, when you took some of 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.400 our experiences to different researchers, and they and they backed 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.200 up the things that I guess I was talking about 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.720 and that you were experiencing as well, with how that 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.840 affects our psyche and our happiness and our feeling fulfilled 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.920 that you know, I just think it's where we live best. 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.800 But man the infrastructure right now, Like you go to 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.760 New York City, right, you live in downtown New York City. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.360 I don't even to me, that seems like a hell 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.800 hole for me to live in Manhattan would be a prison. 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.120 I don't think you would do well there. I really 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:02.840 don't think. What do you beyond because we've been focusing 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.080 on kind of food and meat, What do you think 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.760 hunting gives people, well, particularly you, beyond just the meat? 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.760 Yeah, I mean, it's it's time outside, right, it's sunrises, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:22.480 it's sunsets, it's the physicality. Much to like the technical 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.440 book that you have just come up with now, about 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.840 rocking or walking with weight like that is there's a 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:33.040 euphoria that comes with going into the wilderness, whether it 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.679 be hunting, fishing, you're looking for mushrooms, whatever it is. 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:41.080 There's a euphoria that comes from peacefully and quietly moving 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.000 about a space and becoming an observer. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:45.720 You're a frontline observer. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.600 You are picking apart everything from the birds, the fall 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:54.040 of the fish, the weather, and just that feeling as 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:55.639 a human being that quiet is. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:57.520 It's unreal. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.720 Yeah, and I think that the one of the important 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:08.120 things that happens because you brought up hunting foraging. It's 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.840 a search, right, and so humans evolved as hunters and gatherers. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.960 Every single day we knew we needed food to survive. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:18.720 We had no idea where it was going to be, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.520 so we had to insert ourselves in nature. And granted 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.160 we lived in nature one hundred percent of the time, 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.520 now we spend ninety three percent of our time indoors. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.240 We had to go out and search, and that search 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.320 had to be inherently rewarding for human beings, or else 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:36.199 we wouldn't have continued to do it day in and 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.040 day out. So I still and I think one of 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.720 the issues that we face today. Is that the same 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.080 mechanics of the search for food, for hunting and gathering, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:49.280 they've been put in casino gambling slot machines. It's same 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.040 way social media works all these different things, and that 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:56.000 captures our attention the same way that those outdoor searches do, 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:57.760 but in a way that doesn't give us all these 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.960 important things like sunshine, like movement, like exposures of nature, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.240 like physical trials, like having to overcome things, and so 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:09.200 that's been it's almost a hijacking of this ancient system, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.119 and it doesn't always help us. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.120 I totally agree and even at things that we're doing right. 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.080 I have friends that, for instance, if I'm going to 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.280 go fishing, I might get a small boat and paddle 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:27.159 down the Mississippi River and cast my lures to you know, 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.199 current seams and cast behind logs and behind rocks, and 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.080 cast to places that I know or small mouth bass 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:37.720 or walleyes or muskies where they're hiding for them to 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.920 attack their prey. I might go about fishing that way. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.760 And then I have other friends that have a boat 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.760 absolutely encapsulated electronics with transducers facing out from every app 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.880 and it paints them a beautiful picture of this boulder, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.800 this tree, there's actually a fish laying right behind the 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.760 second branch. It doesn't necessarily make them easier to catch, 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.879 although you see zact where it is. But I'll guarantee 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.439 you that experience is diminished. Everything in our lives is 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.840 brought up as a shortcut, like you said. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.720 And I mean, imagine, I've done this before. 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:20.040 I've been I've been so insanely dehydrated in the mountains 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.280 because I've run out of water and I'm in an 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.600 area where there aren't any streams and I'm not going 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.880 to have any water until I dropped five thousand feet 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.080 and then I have to find water. And I've went 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.520 through that search and then found cold water, and to 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:34.960 this day it was one of the most euphoric experiences 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:35.480 of my life. 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.200 And I've done the same thing now. 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.080 I've never truly been starving, but I've went three or 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.359 four days without food until a pilot came and picked 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:45.960 me up. Or I went three or four days without 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:47.840 food until I arrow it a dock and then was 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.080 able to eat a doc or something like that, And 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.920 that is I mean, it's difficult for me to convey 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.200 the excitement that you get like holding a dead green 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.240 wing teal snowing outside. I just I literally hiked two 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.600 miles to come arrow this dock because I could see 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.000 it on a pond two miles away, and I dropped 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.000 on here to arrow this duck because I'm I'm gonna 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.639 you know, I had to arrow this dock. Then I 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.880 just stripped onto my underwear. So last week of September, 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.640 I just swim out into a pond that's nearly frozen, 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.959