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Speaker 1: In order to weather storms, not only in the Arctic,

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Speaker 1: but in life, you have to put yourself in the storm.

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Speaker 2: I literally hike two miles to come arrow this.

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Speaker 1: Doctor, and it's the best meal you've ever had in

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Speaker 1: your life. I am freezing cold the entire time. I

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Speaker 1: hiked more than I'd ever hiked in my life, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, that was awesome.

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Speaker 3: Through your curiosities and our engagements and your questions, it

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Speaker 3: just was going to allow me to dive deeper into

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Speaker 3: the things that I pulled most.

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Speaker 1: Dear to my heart, Welcome to two percent. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Michael Easter. I am really thrilled about this podcast. We

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Speaker 1: are now on episode two. We're off and rolling today.

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Speaker 1: We have an amazing episode. But before we get in,

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Speaker 1: if you are unfamiliar with me, you might have seen

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Speaker 1: me on The Joe Rogan Experience, or the Hubanman Lab

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Speaker 1: podcast or various TV shows. My background, I'm a health

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Speaker 1: and adventure journalist. I've been doing this for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: I started at Men's Health. I was a professor for

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Speaker 1: seven years, and then I ended up writing the books

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Speaker 1: The Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brain, which became best sellers,

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Speaker 1: and The Thrust of my work is it improving your life.

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Speaker 1: It often takes doing hard things. So this is what

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Speaker 1: this podcast is about. Now. Our name comes from a

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Speaker 1: study that found that two percent of people take the

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Speaker 1: stairs when there's also an escalator available, only two percent.

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Speaker 1: I would argue one hundred percent of people knew that

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Speaker 1: taking the stairs would be better for their long term

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Speaker 1: health and well being, Yet ninety eight percent of people

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Speaker 1: choose to do the easier, more effortless things. So what

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Speaker 1: we're trying to do is we're trying to build a

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Speaker 1: tribe of two percenters that are willing to take on

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Speaker 1: challenges big and small in their life to improve in

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Speaker 1: the long run. Today we're talking to Donnie Vincent. Donnie

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Speaker 1: is a backcountry bow hunter and filmmaker who travels into

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Speaker 1: the world's most remote extreme areas for months at a time,

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Speaker 1: and he makes these movies and I like to describe

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Speaker 1: them as being a lot like the Planet Earth series,

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Speaker 1: except they happen to have hunting. And he's really changing

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Speaker 1: the face of hunting and how it is perceived. He's

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Speaker 1: thinking about ethics, he's thinking about the life cycle and

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Speaker 1: where our food comes from. He's thinking about conservation, he's

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Speaker 1: thinking about what extended time in wild places doing hard

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Speaker 1: things does for the human body, mind, and spirit. Now.

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Speaker 1: I first met Donnie when I was an editor at

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Speaker 1: Men's Health magazine. I ended up profiling him for the magazine.

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Speaker 1: We become very fast friends, and then he ends up

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Speaker 1: calling me like months later. He goes, Michael, I'm going

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Speaker 1: up to the Arctic on an extreme and dangerous hunt

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Speaker 1: for more than a month. Do you want to come along.

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Speaker 1: We're going to see grizzly bears and climb ancient mountains,

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Speaker 1: and it is going to be the most epic adventure

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Speaker 1: a human being has ever go on. So I said yes,

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Speaker 1: and then I find myself up in the Arctic. We

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Speaker 1: have this amazing, incredible adventure that tested me in every

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Speaker 1: single way. But I will tell you this, I came

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Speaker 1: out the other side a better person, and Donnie was

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Speaker 1: a key guide in getting me to realize the value

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Speaker 1: of challenge. During that stint up in the Arctic, we

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Speaker 1: had all these moments up there, like when a storm

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Speaker 1: would roll in. We had this one time we were

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Speaker 1: camped on a hillside and this crazy windstorm rolls in

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Speaker 1: and it almost totally destroys our camp. And I was

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Speaker 1: freaking out because if you lose your tent in the Arctic,

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Speaker 1: you are screwed, Like you are absolutely screwed. But Donnie

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Speaker 1: just went into like, yeah, solve the problem mode. He

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Speaker 1: was calm, he got everything fixed. It was just like

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Speaker 1: watching him made me realize, Oh, in order to weather storms,

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Speaker 1: not only in the Arctic, but in life, you have

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Speaker 1: to put yourself in the storm because that is where

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Speaker 1: you figure out how to live, how to improve, and

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Speaker 1: how to be a better person. So that's what we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk to Donnie about. So with that all said,

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Speaker 1: let's welcome Donnie, Donna Vincent. Welcome to two percent.

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Speaker 3: Dude, this is I mean, I'm beyond honored to sit

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Speaker 3: down and talk with you. Obviously we're friends, but this

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Speaker 3: is different different.

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Speaker 1: What was your reaction to getting an email from an

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Speaker 1: editor at Men's Health.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, somebody just asked me this the other day that

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Speaker 3: had just read The Comfort Crisis and they asked how

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Speaker 3: you found me, and I said, I actually don't know

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Speaker 3: if you were asking around and my name popped up.

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Speaker 3: But first of all, I get asked almost daily by

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Speaker 3: someone if they can join me on a hunt, whether

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Speaker 3: that be you know, a military guy, a kid, a parent, whatever,

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know, just the professionalism in which

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Speaker 3: you went about it, and even in your email, there

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Speaker 3: was an instant seriousness to it that you were your

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Speaker 3: curiosity was real.

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Speaker 2: You weren't trying to get a free hunt out of it.

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Speaker 3: Not that not that anyone else is either, but your

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Speaker 3: you're curious was real. It was honest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was in Nevada. That would have been

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Speaker 1: what twenty nineteen, that was in El Kunt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So for this men's hell story, we go hunting

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Speaker 1: in Nevada. And I will say this, I was coming

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Speaker 1: from Las Vegas and it was hot as hell in

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Speaker 1: Vegas and we get up to about eleven thousand feet.

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Speaker 1: I am freezing cold the entire time. I was hungry

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Speaker 1: the entire time. I hiked more than I'd ever hiked

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Speaker 1: in my wife, and it was absolutely rough. But I

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Speaker 1: came home and I was like, that was awesome, And

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Speaker 1: it gave me the seed of an idea of asking, well,

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Speaker 1: why was that such a valuable experience, which eventually led

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Speaker 1: me to pitching The Comfort Crisis to a publisher. They

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Speaker 1: said yes, But then I had to make the big

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Speaker 1: ask of asking you, hey, man, can I go on

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Speaker 1: one of these crazy month long hunts you go on?

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Speaker 1: So I asked you and you said yes. Why did

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Speaker 1: you say yes?

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Speaker 3: But honestly, Michael, the questions you were asking me in

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Speaker 3: nova that I struggle to answer because I remember specifically

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Speaker 3: one morning we were sitting up and it was kind

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Speaker 3: of chilly out and you're asking me. I've told this

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Speaker 3: story before, but you're like, hey, are you cold? And

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Speaker 3: I said, yeah, I'm cold, and you said, well, you

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Speaker 3: don't look cold. And you said that you were cold,

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Speaker 3: but you said that you yourself were cold and you look

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Speaker 3: like you were cold. I was also cold, and you said,

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Speaker 3: but how come you don't look cold? And I was just, well,

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Speaker 3: it's just I'm I know, you know, the sun's coming up,

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Speaker 3: We're gonna warm up.

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Speaker 2: I have extra clothes, whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: But then you started asking me questions about hunting and

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Speaker 3: things that I thought were going to be a slam

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Speaker 3: dunk to answer, you know, like why do you hunt?

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Speaker 3: And why do you think we hunt? And these were

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Speaker 3: questions that I really struggled to answer with you, and

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Speaker 3: you know, and I could anecdotally hit elements of it

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Speaker 3: that I enjoyed watching the sun come up, or you know,

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Speaker 3: listening to animals or watching animals. I could strike on

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Speaker 3: these little points but really not dive into the seriousness

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Speaker 3: and what it means. And then when we parted ways

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Speaker 3: and you brought the project of the humpt Crisis to me,

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Speaker 3: I just took it as this is this is a

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Speaker 3: project that is going to this It's going to allow

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Speaker 3: me to learn more about myself and more about being

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Speaker 3: a hunter, and more through through your curiosities and our

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Speaker 3: engagements and your questions and things that you find uncomfortable

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Speaker 3: and comfortable. And it just was going to allow me

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Speaker 3: to dive deeper into the things that I hold most

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Speaker 3: dear to my heart.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember most from our hunts in Alaska?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I remember a lot of things, but I

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Speaker 3: remember I mean, honestly, probably the thing that is more

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Speaker 3: most striking to me was how uncomfortable you were to

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Speaker 3: take your first animal, which meant the world to me

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Speaker 3: because it's really uncomfortable for me to take an animal,

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Speaker 3: and rarely do I see that in another And I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying that other guys don't feel that. I think

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Speaker 3: they do. I think a lot of us bury it,

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Speaker 3: hide it, you know, whether it be on camera to

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Speaker 3: our buddies or whatever. But you didn't have the position

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Speaker 3: or the wherewithal to bury it or hide it. You

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Speaker 3: just fricking it was out. And I appreciated it very much.

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Speaker 3: The uncomfortability that you went through, and also the uncertainty.

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Speaker 3: I remember the tarmac with the airplanes. I remember you

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Speaker 3: realizing that I wasn't joking. We are flying out in little,

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Speaker 3: tiny airplanes with pilots that are very skilled, but holding

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Speaker 3: no control over the weather or what is going to happen.

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Speaker 3: And so those are those are very defining moments for me.

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Speaker 3: When you took your animal and then the flight out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I mean I remember so much of that

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Speaker 1: trip and think about it all the time. But to

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Speaker 1: your point about taking an animal, let me just say,

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Speaker 1: if you're listening and you have any qualms with hunting,

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into Donnie's worldview about hunting, which

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Speaker 1: I think is really nuanced and important. But I'll say this,

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Speaker 1: after I took that animal, I definitely went through I

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Speaker 1: was totally sad. I was angry at you guys for

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Speaker 1: a minute. I was. I mean, it was just all

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Speaker 1: these emotional swings. But eventually, after going through that, I

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Speaker 1: think I started to understand, Oh, this is why Donnie

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Speaker 1: does what he does. And had you not because I

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Speaker 1: remember your position on that was you don't have to hunt.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to make you hunt. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: I think you would understand this greater topic that you're

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Speaker 1: writing about if you were to hunt, And so for me,

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Speaker 1: I trusted you on that, and immediately after I go,

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Speaker 1: why did I trust this son of a bitch, Like,

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Speaker 1: I think, this is the worst thing I've ever done

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Speaker 1: in my life. I'm never coming back from this. But

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Speaker 1: then afterwards I got it, and that just totally changed

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Speaker 1: me in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you could live. You could have calm just like

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Speaker 3: you did in the vat.

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Speaker 2: You could have.

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Speaker 3: Calme and written the story and written the book about

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Speaker 3: the things that we were doing from the outside of

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Speaker 3: the fire, if you will. But if you wanted to

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Speaker 3: truly dive into an experience and have those emotions well up,

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Speaker 3: you you were going to have to take an animal's life.

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Speaker 3: And I specifically remember your sadness, I specifically remember your anger.

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Speaker 2: I also remember.

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Speaker 3: When we were caribou their faces even when they're alive,

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Speaker 3: when they were close to you, when you see their

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Speaker 3: eyes and their big, huge bulbous nostrils, they are a

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Speaker 3: very sweet looking animal there. People always like to use

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Speaker 3: this word. It has no position in wilderness and wildlife,

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Speaker 3: but people like to say they're in it.

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Speaker 2: They have an innocence about them.

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Speaker 3: They look like a creature that could do no harm.

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Speaker 3: They look like a curious animal. They almost have eyes.

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Speaker 3: They have looks like your dog might look at you.

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Speaker 3: But I remember when you took that animal's life, and

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Speaker 3: you took a fine bowl, an old bowl. That's what

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Speaker 3: we do, that's how we try and do it. We

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Speaker 3: try to remove animals from the herd that are gonna

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Speaker 3: have very little impact on the herd. And I remember

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Speaker 3: when you took that bowl. The quietness that the Arctic brings,

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Speaker 3: other than a little bit of wind is it's very,

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Speaker 3: very haunting you. There's nothing as far as you can

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Speaker 3: see other than pure wilderness, some mountains, some trees, rivers,

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Speaker 3: but there's nothing as far as you can see. There's

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Speaker 3: a true aloneness that you feel there other than the

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Speaker 3: people that you share that time with. And then your

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Speaker 3: bowl was laying there, you know, there's a melancholy piece

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Speaker 3: to this. And then I remember when we started skinning

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Speaker 3: your bowl and you started to see, you know, dare

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Speaker 3: I say, meat products that you also have seen in

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Speaker 3: the grocery store.

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Speaker 2: I remember you were like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, now that the skin's off, Now that we're breaking

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Speaker 3: the animal down, it's starting to look like steaks. And

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Speaker 3: then I saw you kind of go oh. And I

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Speaker 3: still to this day if I kill a moose or

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Speaker 3: a black bear and you walk up on it, there's

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Speaker 3: a sadness to it. And you start breaking the animal down,

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Speaker 3: you start doing the work. You start earning these calories

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Speaker 3: that you're going to have this winter or over the

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Speaker 3: summer or whatever it is. You start getting the blood

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Speaker 3: on your hands and feeling the weight in your backpack,

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Speaker 3: and it starts to transition into a workload that is,

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Speaker 3: you know, quite an investment and a respect that you

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Speaker 3: have for wild places.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good segue and to talk

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Speaker 1: about kind of your overall worldview on hunting, because hunting

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Speaker 1: is obviously controversial among a lot of people. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: how do you think about that and how do you

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Speaker 1: have conversations with people who may be anti hunting. Maybe

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Speaker 1: vegetarian or vegan. What do those look like? And how

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Speaker 1: do you sort of shape that.

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Speaker 3: It's in a manner of what you carry yourself in.

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Speaker 3: It isn't smoking mirrors that there isn't this position of

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Speaker 3: you have to dance around the subject matter or come

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Speaker 3: up with clever sentences or clever statements to sell what

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Speaker 3: you're doing. It is who we were as a people,

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Speaker 3: and ecosystems do very very well to be hunted.

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Speaker 2: Most do anyway.

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Speaker 3: And obviously human beings have encroached into a lot of

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Speaker 3: wild areas and we've pressured a lot of game in

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Speaker 3: different areas where some animals are going extinct, and then

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Speaker 3: some other animals that do very well in near human beings,

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Speaker 3: like the white tailed deer are exploding and neither numbers

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Speaker 3: taken down by hunters or else. There's just an immense

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Speaker 3: amount of car collisions and things like that. If you

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Speaker 3: want to carry yourself in a manner that is going

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Speaker 3: to engage good conversation with non hunters or anti hunters,

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Speaker 3: or vegetarians, vegans, whatever it is. People love when things

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Speaker 3: are black and white, but nothing actually is black and white.

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Speaker 3: We live in the gray position, and so we better

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Speaker 3: carry ourselves and be open for thoughtful questions around saying

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Speaker 3: because you might get asked the question Michael that actually

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Speaker 3: changes your thought process and might actually make you think

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Speaker 3: about a process that you're doing that you may maybe

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: When I think.

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Speaker 3: Hunting right now, particularly everything on social media is grandiose.

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Speaker 3: People that call themselves hunters right now, and some of

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Speaker 3: the things that they do are very difficult to justify

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Speaker 3: and very difficult to kind of contemplate because it isn't

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Speaker 3: man versus beast, it isn't man versus wild. This is

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Speaker 3: an immersion of who we are. And there's a big

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Speaker 3: difference between conquering a land and shooting a limit, and

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Speaker 3: then there is kind of becoming one with predator and

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Speaker 3: prey and really enveloping yourself in the natural world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've made the point. You know, if a

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Speaker 1: person eats me, typically the buy in is to go

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Speaker 1: to the grocery store and buy me that's you know,

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Speaker 1: prepackaged looks all nice, but they don't really know where

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Speaker 1: it came from, what the animal live like, all these

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Speaker 1: other important things. Don't really have a selection over that.

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Speaker 1: And you've pointed out, well, I actually know those things

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Speaker 1: you know, I know how old this animal was. I

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Speaker 1: know was it close to the end of its life?

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Speaker 1: Where did it come from? How did it live? And

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Speaker 1: so you said that we're kind of inserting yourself, and

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Speaker 1: you're able to insert yourself and kind of I think

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Speaker 1: make decisions that fundamentally change. How do you think about

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Speaker 1: where your food come from? Comes from? In a world

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Speaker 1: where most people, including myself, most things I hate, I

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Speaker 1: have no idea. M M.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think we as a people, and I mean

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Speaker 3: myself is included. Like if I need something today, if

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Speaker 3: I need to, if I'm might have broccoli for dinner,

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Speaker 3: and you know I don't have a garden going right now.

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Speaker 3: If I need broccoli for dinner, I'm going to go

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Speaker 3: buy that broccoli. And I'm going to go to the

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Speaker 3: grocer store and I'm going to try to get the

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Speaker 3: best quality items that I can. But the reality is,

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Speaker 3: you know, we don't live a lifestyle. Some people do

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Speaker 3: that are truly off grade, But we don't live a

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Speaker 3: lifestyle that lends itself to getting everything in this manner.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's much more who you are as

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Speaker 3: a person, how you live your life. And I think

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Speaker 3: the more we hunt, the more we gather, the more

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Speaker 3: we grow, the more we envelope ourselves in wild places

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Speaker 3: and are getting outside and experiencing the wild world. And

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Speaker 3: some of the things that you discovered in the comfort

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Speaker 3: crisis when you went back, when you took some of

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Speaker 3: our experiences to different researchers, and they and they backed

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Speaker 3: up the things that I guess I was talking about

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Speaker 3: and that you were experiencing as well, with how that

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Speaker 3: affects our psyche and our happiness and our feeling fulfilled

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Speaker 3: that you know, I just think it's where we live best.

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Speaker 3: But man the infrastructure right now, Like you go to

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Speaker 3: New York City, right, you live in downtown New York City.

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Speaker 3: I don't even to me, that seems like a hell

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Speaker 3: hole for me to live in Manhattan would be a prison.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you would do well there. I really

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Speaker 1: don't think. What do you beyond because we've been focusing

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Speaker 1: on kind of food and meat, What do you think

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Speaker 1: hunting gives people, well, particularly you, beyond just the meat?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's time outside, right, it's sunrises,

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Speaker 3: it's sunsets, it's the physicality. Much to like the technical

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Speaker 3: book that you have just come up with now, about

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Speaker 3: rocking or walking with weight like that is there's a

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Speaker 3: euphoria that comes with going into the wilderness, whether it

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Speaker 3: be hunting, fishing, you're looking for mushrooms, whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: There's a euphoria that comes from peacefully and quietly moving

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Speaker 3: about a space and becoming an observer.

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Speaker 2: You're a frontline observer.

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Speaker 3: You are picking apart everything from the birds, the fall

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Speaker 3: of the fish, the weather, and just that feeling as

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Speaker 3: a human being that quiet is.

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Speaker 2: It's unreal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that the one of the important

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Speaker 1: things that happens because you brought up hunting foraging. It's

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Speaker 1: a search, right, and so humans evolved as hunters and gatherers.

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Speaker 1: Every single day we knew we needed food to survive.

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Speaker 1: We had no idea where it was going to be,

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Speaker 1: so we had to insert ourselves in nature. And granted

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Speaker 1: we lived in nature one hundred percent of the time,

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Speaker 1: now we spend ninety three percent of our time indoors.

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Speaker 1: We had to go out and search, and that search

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Speaker 1: had to be inherently rewarding for human beings, or else

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't have continued to do it day in and

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Speaker 1: day out. So I still and I think one of

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Speaker 1: the issues that we face today. Is that the same

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Speaker 1: mechanics of the search for food, for hunting and gathering,

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Speaker 1: they've been put in casino gambling slot machines. It's same

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Speaker 1: way social media works all these different things, and that

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Speaker 1: captures our attention the same way that those outdoor searches do,

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Speaker 1: but in a way that doesn't give us all these

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Speaker 1: important things like sunshine, like movement, like exposures of nature,

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Speaker 1: like physical trials, like having to overcome things, and so

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Speaker 1: that's been it's almost a hijacking of this ancient system,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't always help us.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree and even at things that we're doing right.

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Speaker 3: I have friends that, for instance, if I'm going to

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Speaker 3: go fishing, I might get a small boat and paddle

364
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Speaker 3: down the Mississippi River and cast my lures to you know,

365
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Speaker 3: current seams and cast behind logs and behind rocks, and

366
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Speaker 3: cast to places that I know or small mouth bass

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Speaker 3: or walleyes or muskies where they're hiding for them to

368
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Speaker 3: attack their prey. I might go about fishing that way.

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Speaker 3: And then I have other friends that have a boat

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Speaker 3: absolutely encapsulated electronics with transducers facing out from every app

371
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Speaker 3: and it paints them a beautiful picture of this boulder,

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Speaker 3: this tree, there's actually a fish laying right behind the

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Speaker 3: second branch. It doesn't necessarily make them easier to catch,

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Speaker 3: although you see zact where it is. But I'll guarantee

375
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Speaker 3: you that experience is diminished. Everything in our lives is

376
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Speaker 3: brought up as a shortcut, like you said.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, imagine, I've done this before.

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Speaker 3: I've been I've been so insanely dehydrated in the mountains

379
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Speaker 3: because I've run out of water and I'm in an

380
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Speaker 3: area where there aren't any streams and I'm not going

381
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Speaker 3: to have any water until I dropped five thousand feet

382
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Speaker 3: and then I have to find water. And I've went

383
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Speaker 3: through that search and then found cold water, and to

384
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Speaker 3: this day it was one of the most euphoric experiences

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Speaker 3: of my life.

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Speaker 2: And I've done the same thing now.

387
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Speaker 3: I've never truly been starving, but I've went three or

388
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Speaker 3: four days without food until a pilot came and picked

389
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Speaker 3: me up. Or I went three or four days without

390
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Speaker 3: food until I arrow it a dock and then was

391
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Speaker 3: able to eat a doc or something like that, And

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Speaker 3: that is I mean, it's difficult for me to convey

393
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Speaker 3: the excitement that you get like holding a dead green

394
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Speaker 3: wing teal snowing outside. I just I literally hiked two

395
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Speaker 3: miles to come arrow this dock because I could see

396
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Speaker 3: it on a pond two miles away, and I dropped

397
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Speaker 3: on here to arrow this duck because I'm I'm gonna

398
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 3: you know, I had to arrow this dock. Then I

399
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 3: just stripped onto my underwear. So last week of September,

400
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: I just swim out into a pond that's nearly frozen,

401
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,959
Speaker 3: grab this dead doc, swim back, dry off as much

402
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: as I could, get dressed, hike back up, pluck the doc.

403
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 3: Cook it. But I mean, there's no greater experience.

404
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Speaker 1: And it's the best meal you've ever had in your life.

405
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's unreal. It's and I wish we all

406
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 3: still live that way. I really do like and I

407
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 3: have no bane against farmers. But when agriculture started, we

408
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 3: started having more babies, we started staying in one place.

409
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Speaker 3: We started you know, our excrement was now in one place.

410
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Speaker 3: And that was that.

411
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Speaker 2: That started a ball rolling that we'll never be able

412
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Speaker 2: to recover from.

413
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Speaker 3: The Earth will reco from it, because you know, we'll

414
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Speaker 3: go through some sort of you know event here that

415
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Speaker 3: will probably greatly diminish, if not wipe human beings out.

416
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Speaker 3: You know, whether that be in our lifetime or fifty lifetimes,

417
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Speaker 3: who knows.

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Speaker 1: So one thing is that you know when you when

419
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Speaker 1: you tell stories about your hunts, it sounds so far

420
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: away for the average person. And I remember when I

421
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: first kind of became interested in hunting, and it was

422
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Speaker 1: probably from you and your work. Before I sent that

423
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Speaker 1: email to ask you if I could join you on

424
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: that hunt in Nevada, I remember looking at how do

425
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Speaker 1: I start? And it became I was like, oh my god,

426
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Speaker 1: there are so many things you have to do to

427
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Speaker 1: get started. It's not like basketball, where if I go,

428
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Speaker 1: you know, I want to play basketball, So I go

429
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: to Walmart, I buy a ball, and then I just

430
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Speaker 1: go to the court and I start throwing it at

431
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: the rim. What I think is interesting, though, is most

432
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Speaker 1: of my friends from high school that hunted, they grew

433
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: up in hunting families, and so I think people would think, oh,

434
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Speaker 1: you must have come from this long line of hunt

435
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 1: but you didn't. So how did you even get drawn

436
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: into hunting and start to live this way?

437
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 3: And that's a really good question, and it's one that

438
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: I can't entirely answer, because when I was little, it

439
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: was all I thought about. And I don't know if

440
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 3: that came from my DNA or if that came from

441
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 3: my dad's book collection, because my dad loved wildlife and

442
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 3: he had all these different wildlife books. And I lost

443
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 3: my dad this a little over a year ago, and

444
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 3: there were questions. I have so many questions for my

445
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 3: dad now that he's gone. But at his funeral, I

446
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: was talking to one of his very best friends and

447
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 3: he was talking about this adventurous life that I live,

448
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 3: and he said, boy, are you your father's son? And

449
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: I didn't get a chance that day, but I really

450
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 3: wanted to ask him because I didn't see my dad

451
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 3: as an adventurous man at all, and so I want

452
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: to ask him. Obviously, he's referencing something in my dad's youth,

453
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 3: and so I don't know what it is that you know,

454
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: this gentleman was speaking of. But my dad had a

455
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 3: really cool collection of old books, old hunting books and

456
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: books on military tactics and wilderness survival and fishing and

457
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 3: all these different how to books and had he had

458
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: small game books, books that taught you how to hunt squirrels, rabbits,

459
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 3: and crows back then to you know, books on hunting,

460
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: grizzly bears and moose, and I just dove into all

461
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: these things. And I can sit here and say I

462
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: then wanted to be a hunter or a big game

463
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 3: hunter or whatever. But really what I wanted, Michael, I

464
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 3: think more than anything is that I wanted to live

465
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 3: a rural life. I wanted to live in a cabin.

466
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 3: I wanted to have to kill a moose for my

467
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: winter meat. And it's I haven't gotten all the way there,

468
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: but that is what I wanted. That is that those

469
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 3: are that's the life that I wanted to live. That's

470
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: those are the things that I find most charming, splitting

471
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 3: wood and having heat your house with firewood, and going

472
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: out and fishing and going out hunting, because there's there

473
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 3: is this euphoria of doing it on your own and

474
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 3: supplying for yourself.

475
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. So how did you start? Because I know in

476
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: college you researched wildlife biology, that's what you studied, right,

477
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: and then you ended up doing some research on tigers

478
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia, right.

479
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, the in Nepaul and Bangladesh.

480
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 1: What'd you learn from that?

481
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 3: Those are scary places? That is one thing that I learned.

482
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: I remember just going to the airport, and you've experienced

483
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: some of this stuff yourself now, but going through machine

484
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: gun checkpoints and going through checkpoints where everyone's pointing a

485
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 3: gun at you and they think your passport is fake.

486
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: And when I was younger, I thought they really thought

487
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 3: my passport was fake. And now as I've gotten older,

488
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 3: I realized they just want to bribe so they can

489
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 3: get through to the next machine gun checkpoint where he's

490
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: also going to tell you your passport is fake. And

491
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: then you know, being those being in that research and

492
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 3: kind of understanding and seeing like, for one, where when

493
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: I was in Bangladesh, there's no hunting allowed in that country,

494
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 3: But the gentleman that I was working for, he said, hey,

495
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: careful kind of what you talk about when we're working

496
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 3: with the other biologists, he said, you know, because he

497
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 3: knew I did a lot of hunting, or that I

498
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: loved hunting, lived hunt, I guess. But he also said,

499
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: you're probably gonna get a lot of respect from the

500
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: biologists here because even though they don't hunt in the

501
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 3: country any longer. The ancestors that were the pillars of

502
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 3: their communities, the leaders that were of their tribes were

503
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: the better hunters in their tribes, So the hunters would

504
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: go to the top of the community and probably because

505
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 3: they could provide the most and kind of make decisions

506
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 3: on where people need to go for hunting and gathering.

507
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: And so he's like, you're probably gonna get a lot

508
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: of respect from them.

509
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: But just be you know, roll into it slowly because

510
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 3: more so in a lot of those countries are dealing

511
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: with so much poaching that they're you know, it's not

512
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: that they're anti hunting, they're anti poaching, which is course.

513
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: Was a very different thing.

514
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 3: And I wanted to study wildlife biology because I wanted

515
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: to be in wild systems and I wanted to contribute

516
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 3: and help wildlife. And as weird it is for some

517
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: of your viewers or listeners that don't understand hunting, that's

518
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 3: also one of the biggest reasons why it hunts, because

519
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 3: I want to be a frontline observer. I want to understand, Hey,

520
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: how come there's a bunch less ducks, and why are

521
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 3: we losing so much habitat and you know, all these

522
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: different elements that are really really important because as we

523
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: lose our soils, Like people might think I'm concerned about

524
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 3: the white tailed deer or the black bear or something.

525
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: But really what's concerning is our soils and our waters, insects,

526
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 3: our grasses, things like that, because if we had those,

527
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: if we still had you know, ten million buffalo on

528
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 3: the planes, like, we would be so far better off

529
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: than what we have right now. I'm having endless row

530
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 3: crops of corn and soybeans.

531
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I understand why we have all

532
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: these things. It's about efficiency. It's the fact that people

533
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: could start to have a lot of children and then

534
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: you go, well, a lot of these people are starving.

535
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: What if we use some science to give people more

536
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: food and keep them from starving, and then that propagates.

537
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: But I do think you're right that we lose something

538
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: in that process. It's like everything, right, It's like progress

539
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: has trade offs, and sometimes those trade offs are good

540
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: and sometimes they're bad. Yeah, And then so then you

541
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: end up doing research. Was it on the Tulisach River?

542
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: Is that right?

543
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: Yes? In Alaska?

544
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: And that was doing and that was doing Samon counts.

545
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: So you get I loved this story. You get sent

546
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: out for how long were out there? Like five months?

547
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: And there was a bunch of you that started, and

548
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: I think you were the last person standing. So tell

549
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: us about that experience and what did you learn from

550
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: all that time alone outside.

551
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I interviewed with my boss, it is really

552
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: funny because I was nervous. I know, these jobs have

553
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 3: a lot of competition to get and so I really

554
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: wanted to be in the wilderness for the summer, you know,

555
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: spring summer, early to fall in and so I started.

556
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: I was studying up on all my biology because I

557
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 3: was like, what is he going to ask me in

558
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: the interview?

559
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: How is this going to go?

560
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 3: And I better have my you know, my ducktn room

561
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: And he said, basically, my interview was we're going to

562
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: drop you off from the wilderness. What's the what's the

563
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: chance that I'm going to have to come and pick

564
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: you up? And I said zero? And he said are

565
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: you sure? And I said, yeah, I'm not coming out

566
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,239
Speaker 3: like you're not. I'm not going to get homesick. You're

567
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: not going to have to come get me. He's like, well,

568
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: that's that was the biggest thing that they were looking for.

569
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: And to your point, because a lot of the people

570
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 3: that go and do this work, they end up a

571
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: week in two weeks in, three weeks in, they're they're

572
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: they're out, like they want to get picked up, they

573
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: want to go home, they want to drink a beer

574
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: with their buddies, and they want to get back to

575
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: that kind of that infrastructure, that kind of noise that

576
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: we feel very comfortable with. But I thrived in this,

577
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 3: you know position like this is. You know, they provided

578
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: me with a tent and a sleeping bag. We had food,

579
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: We had a research tent like I had even though

580
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: to the average person, I was roughing it. To me,

581
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: I had everything that anyone could ever want, and I

582
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: loved it. I love being around the wildlife. I love

583
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: the quiet. There were times, you know, there's about four weeks,

584
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: six eight weeks where the bugs are you know, biblical like,

585
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: they will wipe you out.

586
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 2: Like it's probably early June to early August.

587
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 3: It's significant, and so you just have to get your

588
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: mind right. You're gonna have clouds of mosquitos, You're going

589
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: to have you know, there's going to be you know,

590
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: things that you're gonna have to face throughout your day.

591
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: But seeing you know, I remember, like day three that

592
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: I was there, I was talking to this up a

593
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: kid and I was like, hey, man, I have to

594
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: go take a nap because we'd been working twenty four

595
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 3: hours a day for a couple of days. It's like,

596
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 3: I got to go lay down. He's like, okay. His

597
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 3: name's Peter Gregory. He's an awesome, awesome kid. And I said,

598
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: but if you've seen anything cool, come wake me up.

599
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: And he's like okay. And so I went laid down

600
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 3: and he came over to the tent. I was laying

601
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: down for maybe thirty minutes, and he's like, eh, darnie,

602
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: there's a big bear.

603
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: Was like, Peter, don't mess with me.

604
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: Man, Like we're just starting out working together, Like, tell

605
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: him be honest. He's like, I'm serious, biggish bear I've

606
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: ever seen in my life. So I was here and

607
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: so I got out and the bugs weren't out yet.

608
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: I remember I unzipped my tent and I stood out

609
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: there with Peter, and I could see this huge tundra flat,

610
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: which you know what that looks like now, I felt

611
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: like I could see twenty miles and I could see

612
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 3: the Killbuck Mountains, which Purple Mountain majesty like literally looks

613
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 3: absolutely perfect. And then here's this bohemoth one thousand pound

614
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 3: plus brown bear just walking right past my tent, his

615
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: furs really long from over the winter, and it's blowing

616
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 3: in the wind, and he just walked as peacefully by it.

617
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: It looked like every oil painting I've ever seen that

618
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: has stopped me in my tracks. And that's just being

619
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: there and doing that stuff, and seeing the fish and

620
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 3: holding the salmon and understanding the ecosystem and watching that

621
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: river system. We'd get there early enough, there'd be no

622
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 3: fish in the river besides residence species Dolly Bardon, grayling,

623
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: northern pike. But then all of a sudden, one day

624
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: you could hear the fish in the river. The river

625
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: would go, it'd be very few egos, very few gulls.

626
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: Very few wolves, and grizzly bears very few.

627
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: And then one day the fish would show up and

628
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: the whole ecosystem would come to life with all the

629
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: animals that I just listed. And I mean to see

630
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 3: that and experience that, and to know that that happens

631
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 3: every year in the wilderness, whether we're there or not,

632
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: I mean, that is that's everything to me.

633
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: I feel like that's this greater metaphor for a lot

634
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: of ways that we improve and that is to say,

635
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: you can't quit until the magic happens. And it's like,

636
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure with the people who tapped out, because if

637
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: I remember right, something like ninety percent of people don't

638
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: finish the full five months.

639
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 3: That's right.

640
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: And I think anytime you're doing something that has challenges,

641
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: you hit this point where you just go, I've had enough.

642
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: I got to get the hell out of here. Like

643
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: you just start to freak out. But if you can

644
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: just kind of wait it out and just wait and see,

645
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: then you kind of get this second moment where that

646
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: sort of phase and you go, oh, this is why

647
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm here. Yeah, But if you don't go through that

648
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: doubt and the struggle, you're never going to get that

649
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: big important realization.

650
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: I think that's really well said, and I think we

651
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: experienced that a lot in life and even the things

652
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: that I mean even exercise, right, Like, you get to

653
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 3: a point with exercise and you're like, this absolutely sucks.

654
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: But then you get over this hump where it's almost

655
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: like that ball or wheels starts rolling down the other

656
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: side of the hill and you're like, holy cow, I

657
00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: made it. And now embracing this suck is that much

658
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: easier and now you have this perspective that you didn't

659
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: have on the on the front side.

660
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah, I think that's very well said.

661
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: So you starts as a hunter, you do this work

662
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: in Alaska, and then at a certain point you start

663
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: filming your hunts. And the way that I described your

664
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: hunts in the in your films in the Comfort Crisis

665
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: is I like to say, there are a lot like

666
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: Planet Earth, except they have hunting in them in the

667
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: sense that I think if people are aware of any

668
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: hunting films or documentary they've seen on the Outdoor Channel,

669
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: they're not good. It's just some people who are kind

670
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: of we need to get the buck with the biggest

671
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: antlers and grip and grins, and yours are very thoughtful

672
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: and very much embedded in nature, and nature becomes kind

673
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: of the key character in this. So how did you

674
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: even start doing the documentaries and what made you want

675
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: to do something different? What was it about that that

676
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: you're like, I want it, this is how I'm going

677
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: to do it.

678
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 3: Yep.

679
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: So, so it's a long story that I'll give you

680
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: the cliff notes.

681
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: And so I was working as a biologist and I

682
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: was also going on hunts because it was just all

683
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 3: I ever wanted to do. And when I was on

684
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: these hunts, I started bringing a handicam and a camera

685
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: because I wanted to come home and talk to my

686
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 3: mom and dad and say like, look at this grizzly

687
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 3: that walked to my camp, and look at this caribou

688
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: that I saw, and look at the northern lights, and

689
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 3: here are the things. It's kind of like bringing my

690
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: adventures home, tell family and friends. And then through hunting,

691
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 3: I would bump into people in airports, I would bump

692
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: into people in hunting camps or maybe a lodge, and

693
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: they know, we'd just start talking and say what do

694
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 3: you doing?

695
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: I'm a biologist And then I'd say what do you do?

696
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 3: And they'd say, Oh, I have a TV show on

697
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 3: the Outdoor Channel, or you know, I'm editor of this

698
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: hunting magazine or whatever it is, and variably, and so

699
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 3: I started to meet people, and then people started taking

700
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: interest in the hunts that I was doing and started

701
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: asking me like, Hey, would you write a magazine article perhaps,

702
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 3: or could we photograph you for.

703
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: A magazine article?

704
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: And and then can you show me some of this

705
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: footage that you have because I would love to use

706
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: it for my TV show, and I would just give

707
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 3: him my footage and and so one thing kind of

708
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: led to another, and I did a project with a photographer.

709
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 3: I did a sheep hunt in in the Yukon in

710
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: this Peterson's Hunting magazine, I believe it was wanted to

711
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 3: shoot photos, wanted to do a photo essay of this

712
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 3: particular hunt. So the photographer contacted me and he's like, hey,

713
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 3: I met him through some other work and he said,

714
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: I would love to tag along with you on this hunt.

715
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 3: I'll pay my own way, take all your photos, and

716
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 3: then you know, you'll have access to all the photos,

717
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 3: and and and then I'll he'll have his project. We

718
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: went and did that, and then that opened a lot

719
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 3: of eyes in the industry.

720
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: People wanted.

721
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: You know, I started popping up on covers of magazines

722
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 3: and in magazine ads. That actually became a problem because

723
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 3: I started walking through department stores and I'd see my

724
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 3: face on like men's underwear, and you know, I didn't

725
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 3: I didn't understand that there was a market here that

726
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: was going on. I didn't realize the commercialization of this.

727
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: And so long story short, I started working with a

728
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: particular company and I said.

729
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: I approached them and I said, hey, I.

730
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 3: Would like to maybe get into more professional filming and

731
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 3: do some more storytelling.

732
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 2: And they said okay.

733
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: They said, well, we have another guy that also wants

734
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 3: is kind of hitting us up for some dollars to

735
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 3: do this project over here. Perhaps we can introduce you too,

736
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 3: and we can double our dollars down in one place,

737
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: and you guys can work together and work on a

738
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: very similar project. Sound like you guys want to work similarly,

739
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 3: And so I went. I went and started doing that project.

740
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: And that gentleman had he had some a photographer that

741
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: worked for him, and then the editor that worked for him.

742
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: And I met these guys and they're wildly talented and

743
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: we started working on this project together. Well, that guy

744
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 3: that I got linked up with was not a not

745
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 3: a good man. He wasn't good to just not a

746
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: good man. He wasn't He didn't do things legally, he

747
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: didn't treat his employees.

748
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 2: Well.

749
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: He's very talented with a with a still camera, which

750
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: is why he had gotten as far as he had gotten.

751
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 2: But and so I just decided, this.

752
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: Is really cool filming wildlife in this manner and kind

753
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 3: of going down this storytelling road with a bit more

754
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: of a professional eye. And I thought maybe we could

755
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: do this on our own. And so I approached the

756
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: two guys that worked for him and I said, hey,

757
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to start my own company. And within I

758
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: mean a sentence, they said, you know, hey, we want

759
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: to leave and go with you and start this company.

760
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: And that in the one guy's name is Kyle Nikolaite,

761
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 3: he was, he's not my business partner. He is not

762
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 3: a man that gives compliments. He does not have the

763
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 3: ability to pay someone a compliment. He only is a

764
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,359
Speaker 3: truth sayer, that's it. And so, like we were riding

765
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 3: a truck one day and he said, you're a really

766
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 3: good storyteller. You have a very honest approach to your storytelling,

767
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: and you have a heartfelt sorrow or position that you hold.

768
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: You're very very thoughtful in your design and architecture of

769
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 3: how you tell a story. And he said, if you're

770
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: willing to do that on camera, I think people would

771
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 3: respond to it in a very positive way, and I

772
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 3: think you could make films that people would watch.

773
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: And so he is a very gifted editor. And then

774
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 2: William Altman, as you.

775
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: Know Sawyer's Little Man, William's in the Comfort Crisis for

776
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: those of you who have read the book.

777
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 3: Yes, and so he is an extraordinarily different human being.

778
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: And I have another sort of William Altman named Forrest

779
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 3: Row Now that works for us, and he is very

780
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 3: similar to William. He's twenty two years old or twenty

781
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: three now. But all he wants to do is all

782
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: he wants to do is be outside, and all he

783
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: wants to do is be outside in the right manner, if.

784
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: That makes sense, you know, William.

785
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 3: And so we started a company and we started making films,

786
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: and then that led to us telling stories for other companies,

787
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 3: and we started doing commercial work. And we said no

788
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 3: to commercial work for years and years because we didn't

789
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: want to really necessarily commercialize who we were. And then

790
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: in true sense of kind of what you just referred to,

791
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: we started telling stories for other companies and it started

792
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: to be terribly rewarding to take our talent set to

793
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 3: get to know someone like you. Let's say you wanted

794
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 3: to film a piece around the Comfort Crisis, and to

795
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: tell your story through what it is that we do.

796
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 3: And we really started to grow as a company and

797
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 3: doing commercial work and then also our documentaries.

798
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you guys just released this new documentary, The

799
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: Way Back. This is a great one because I really

800
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: feel like it hatchers who you are and it tells

801
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: the story of this caribou hunt you did, but with

802
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: this sort of thread of how you done that same

803
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: hunt with your father who you mentioned passed away. How

804
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: did that all come together? Did you go into that

805
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: knowing that was what the story was, or did that

806
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: arise organically or how did it all happen.

807
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 3: That popped up organically and in the true essence of

808
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 3: the word. And so I started hunting as things kind

809
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: of line up in my life. I started hunting with

810
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 3: this particular pilot out of Port Olsworth, Alaska, and I

811
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: started moose hunting with him and caribou hunting with him.

812
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: And he's a very difficult place to hunt caribou. And

813
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: he's like, I think you would really like this place

814
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 3: where we hunt caribou. He's like, there's very few animals there.

815
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 3: It's a huge area. You're not going to see very

816
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: many animals at all. But there are some very old

817
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: and large bulls there that need to be taken because

818
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 3: as the population basically doesn't have as the biologist put it,

819
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 3: they didn't want to care, but to start eating themselves,

820
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 3: not a house and home. And so this is down

821
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 3: in the Alaska Peninsula. It's a lot of weather, very

822
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 3: dangerous hunt and very difficult. So he's like, I think

823
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: you'd love it. So I started doing that and I

824
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 3: did the first year and it was awesome. You kind

825
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: of see a reflection of that in the in the hunt,

826
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: and it was such a cool place to be. And

827
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 3: we had really nice weather that year, which was remarkable,

828
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: and we found some really handsome old bowls, and we

829
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 3: worked really hard to get to be successful, and so

830
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 3: it was awesome. And I remember I was texting my

831
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 3: dad because my mom my mom had had a stroke,

832
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: and so I was text with my dad and I

833
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, how's everything going at home? And it's

834
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 3: like good, and he's kind of telling me the ups

835
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 3: and down and I was getting ready to fly home.

836
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 3: This is kind of fun. But I was getting ready

837
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: to fly home, and I probably had like four or

838
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 3: five days left. And then I was sitting down and

839
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: an interview and I felt the ground shake beneath me,

840
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, that was a pretty big earthquake.

841
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: And I've been an earthquakes before, but I was like

842
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 3: that one, like really like.

843
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: Really move the earth.

844
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 3: And so I contacted one of the pilots, being my

845
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: in reach, and I was like, man, did you guys

846
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 3: feel that earthquake at camp? And he's like, wasn't an earthquake?

847
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 3: A volcano erupted. He's like, so you felt the volcano

848
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: erupt And I was like, oh, that's cool, and he's

849
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: like it is cool. He's like, but no airplanes are

850
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: going to be able to fly now for like ten

851
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: days because volcanic ash destroys airplane engines and so you

852
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: know you're gonna have to sit tight and you know

853
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: whatever else, and which was I thought was cool. So

854
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 3: I was texting my dad about all that stuff, and

855
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 3: he loved My dad always thought like he'd always asked

856
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: me like, hey, man, where are you going? What are

857
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 3: you up to? Or if I text him, he'd be

858
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 3: like where where are you because he wouldn't even really

859
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: know where I was. And then and then he always

860
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 3: you know, wanted me to get home safe, and he's like,

861
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 3: you know, you can't keep doing this work and not

862
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: come up short, you know, And so we always talk

863
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: about I know that, and so fast forward, and I

864
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 3: ended up suddenly losing my dad and my mom within

865
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: ten weeks. And so then my life just continues like

866
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 3: all of ours do. And you know, you obviously exist

867
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 3: with great sorrow. And I didn't always have a great

868
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 3: relationship with my dad, and he was very much like

869
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: some of your humble beginnings in the comfort crisis. My dad,

870
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: I knew my dad with I had a relationship with alcohol.

871
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 3: That's what I knew when I was growing up was

872
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: my dad and beer, and and he was a you know,

873
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 3: he was a great drunk, if you will, Like he

874
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: just drank and you know, there wasn't fighting or anything,

875
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: and he just that was his thing.

876
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: But he didn't have a lot of time for me.

877
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 3: And I grew up in a household with a brother

878
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: and sister that were you know, they they weren't, they

879
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 3: were troubled, and so my parents were very very focused

880
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: on my brother and sisters. So anyway, so when my

881
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 3: dad and my mom passed, it affected me much more

882
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 3: than I thought it would, because I instantly thought of

883
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: a million questions that I wanted to ask my dad,

884
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 3: things that I couldn't conjure up when he was alive, Right,

885
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: I'd take him deer hunting and we'd sit in the

886
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 3: truck and we talk about the weather or if the

887
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 3: crops were out, and it would always make me kind

888
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 3: of giggle. He'd always tap his fingers on the windowsill

889
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: of my truck and he'd be like, oh, a lot

890
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 3: of corn is still standing, you know.

891
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: And you know, we talk about the weather. And my

892
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 2: dad had an interesting life. He was in the navy.

893
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 3: And now I'm curious when his friend said, oh, you

894
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 3: are your father's son, Now I'm really curious about like,

895
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 3: was he fishing a lot more than he ever told

896
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: me about? Was he My dad wasn't a talker, so

897
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 3: he didn't tell stories. And so fast forward, my life continues,

898
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: and we're going in on this project on the Peninsula

899
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: again because I wanted to another I wanted to get

900
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: out there and see more of that country. And Yeah,

901
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: there was just a complexity in my emotions and the

902
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: things that I was doing that I didn't anticipate from that.

903
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: And so yeah, and I wanted to put a film

904
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: together and kind of talk about some of that stuff,

905
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 3: because I mean, it's as raw and as you know, revealing,

906
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: as vulnerable as I guess as a person can be.

907
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I thought it was just I thought it

908
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: was excellent. And I thought also that it really highlighted

909
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: how you stand out in the hunting world in a

910
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: way that you'll talk about those things. I think you're

911
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: a lot more I would say intellectual hunter. I would

912
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: even say spiritual hunter. I would be interested in two things.

913
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: How have those views evolved? Have you always had them?

914
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: Have they changed over time? And then also how have

915
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: you been received in the quote unquote traditional hunting world.

916
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 3: When I was young, I thought I had to behave

917
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: a certain way that I was kind of seeing on

918
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 3: TV or I was seeing like with Buddies of Mind,

919
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: where like if we kill the deer, you know, we

920
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: would hoot and holler and I would be excited. You know,

921
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 3: if I if I shot a buck and I was

922
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 3: hooting and hollering, it wasn't fake if I was really excited.

923
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 3: And like Bodies of Mind, when we first started hunting,

924
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 3: you know, we would come up empty handed ninety nine

925
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 3: percent of the time. So when we finally got a deer,

926
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: like we'd hug and you know, like holy cown, even

927
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: though we just lived it. We'd tell each other the

928
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: story again and like he came down this ridge, and

929
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, we'd do all this stuff, but once you

930
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: were over that emotional dump, you know, you'd look at

931
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 3: this animal and I would, and you see the blood

932
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: coming out of his wounds, and you'd understand that, oh,

933
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 3: my arrow passed through his heart or my bullet passed

934
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: through his lungs and he ran, and I would see.

935
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 3: I'd put myself in this perspective of I'd watch and

936
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: tip over, and I knew that he's losing his life

937
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: right now, and so I would think about that, and

938
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 3: what if that was me? What if I was the

939
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: one that had been shot. I'm over there trying to

940
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 3: take my next breath, but my lungs are filling and

941
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 3: and and I would just have this connection of understanding,

942
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 3: or at least I would think about, you know, what

943
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 3: did this deer go through? And now that he's laying there,

944
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 3: and I'm going to start skinning him, you know, I'm

945
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 3: looking at his eyes and his nose, and you know,

946
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 3: and right away, I you know, i'd start cleaning the

947
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: blood up, and I start brushing the dirt off his

948
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 3: face and putting his tongue back in his mouth. And

949
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 3: his tongue had fallen out and things that I felt

950
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: were appropriate.

951
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: And so I've just always had this.

952
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: Ultimate respect of don't take the animal's life until you're

953
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 3: entirely ready, or this is the animal, or this is

954
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: the moment, this is what you're going to do. And

955
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 3: then once you do that, there's this there's a proper

956
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 3: steps that you need to take to utilize this animal

957
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 3: into you know, to be kind of in this wild system.

958
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 3: And so while I've always felt that great connection, it

959
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: took me a while to understand and to be honest

960
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 3: with you, you were also a big piece of my

961
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 3: growth because talking to you about this stuff for the

962
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 3: Men's Health magazine it was something that I'd never done before.

963
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: And in talking and teaching it to you, or in

964
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 3: talking about it openly with you, I found areas of

965
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 3: my brain and things that I talked about, you know,

966
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: kind of where you you'd asked me a question, I'd

967
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: say sentence, and I go, yeah, yeah, that's how I feel.

968
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: But I haven't had to conjure that sentence up to

969
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 3: anyone else because nobody else had asked me that question.

970
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: And so then I started to understand.

971
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: And then once I read the Comfort Crisis, and I

972
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 3: started to see all these metrics that you went put

973
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: to the things that I was experiencing, and then all

974
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 3: so even actually with the scarcity brain and kind of

975
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: seeing like I kind of giggled when I read the

976
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: scarcity Brain, because it's very easy to look at somebody

977
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: and be like, dude, you're getting hoodwinked with a slot machine.

978
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 3: But then I also looked at it as my own life,

979
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: and I was like, man, I'm getting hoodwinked with a

980
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 3: white tail deer because every November, every November, it's all

981
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 3: I can think about, and every springtime I wanted, you know,

982
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 3: I want to go on and tap trees right now

983
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 3: for maple syrup, and I have firewood to cut, and

984
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: then I'm gonna have fish that I'm gonna go chase.

985
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 3: And so it's kind of the same thing a little bit.

986
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no bells and whistles, but I get

987
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 3: maple syrup comes out of the tree once I boil

988
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: it down. It's kind of the same thing you get in.

989
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: And so I didn't always have this soulful, heartful connection

990
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 3: to where I can articulate it, but I always took

991
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: that time, even around my buddies, I didn't talk to

992
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 3: them about it. But I always took that time to

993
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 3: put myself in the deer's shoes, if you will, or

994
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: to put myself in the dut shoes, and to do

995
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: these things. And I'd killed a couple of animals when

996
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 3: I was younger, like I shot a blue jay once,

997
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 3: I shot a black caped CHICKENI once these are non

998
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 3: game species that I just cause and effect. I had

999
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: a gun. I was a little kid or a younger kid.

1000
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: I saw a bird and I shot it fell and

1001
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: those were immediate for me, immediate no nos and sorrows.

1002
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 3: And I remember I shot the chickadee and instantly I

1003
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 3: was like, oh my, I just took a sanda's life

1004
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: for absolutely no reason. And then I kind of let

1005
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 3: someone talk me into shooting the blue jay. And then

1006
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 3: I learned then that I was like, doesn't matter what

1007
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 3: anyone else wants, it matters what I want. And then

1008
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 3: even when we first started, you know, working with you,

1009
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 3: and then when we wrote our first film in twenty twelve,

1010
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 3: I wrote this voice over for the film and I

1011
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 3: handed it to Kyle nick Lay and he read it

1012
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: and he's like, this is terrible. He's like, you have

1013
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 3: to rewrite all of this. He's like, I've never ever

1014
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 3: heard you talk like this, but I wrote it in

1015
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: a manner that I thought we were going to entertain people.

1016
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 3: And he he educated me much like you did in

1017
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 3: some essence where he's like, you have to make these

1018
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: films as though no one's going to watch them.

1019
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: You have to make these films so they are so

1020
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 2: true to who you are that.

1021
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if anyone else watches it, because if

1022
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: you make it for you then and you're being completely honest,

1023
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 3: then you'll never have to chase any sort of fashion

1024
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: or or you know, a different type of decision or or.

1025
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 2: Or you know, inspirations or whatever.

1026
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: Dude, you were always Isn't that such a good metaphor

1027
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: for art and how to live? Yes, it's like, why

1028
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: copy everyone else?

1029
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: Just do your own for you.

1030
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: If people like it, great, If they don't, you still

1031
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: you still got something internally rewarding from it.

1032
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you chased the things people liked, which

1033
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 3: change all the time, you're always going to be one

1034
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 3: percent behind or ten percent behind where the people are going.

1035
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: You're always it's and you're not doing anything that's true

1036
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: to yourself. So it's literally you're it's an empty bucket.

1037
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: Well, then you have to become your your copying what

1038
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: has become the trend? Whereas I would argue with your case,

1039
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: you have started a trend of hunting documentaries that are

1040
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,239
Speaker 1: different than what was before, Like you're kind of the pioneer.

1041
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: You're seeing a lot more documentaries that are shot like

1042
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: Planet Earth if you will, that are asking big questions.

1043
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: What when you first released your first documentaries, what was

1044
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: the reaction in the hunting community.

1045
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: I thought we were going to get murdered, if I'm

1046
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 2: being honest.

1047
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: I thought the guys interested to have guns yep.

1048
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 3: And I thought the guys are gonna there that it's

1049
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: going to be horrible, And it wasn't. People came out

1050
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 3: of the woodwork and said, I've thought about for years.

1051
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 3: I've never articulated to my buddies. I've had these same sorrows.

1052
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 3: I've had the same seriousness. Other guys came, I mean,

1053
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you. A couple of guys came

1054
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: to me and said, this is, you know, ridiculous. It's

1055
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 3: just hunting. It's just a deer, you know. But very

1056
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: very little of that, Michael much more was people then

1057
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: wanted me, wanted their kids to watch our stuff. And

1058
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: then you know hunting instructors wanted their pupils to watch

1059
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: our stuff, and you know guys that were going to

1060
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 3: get their hunter safety cards. And it was a lot

1061
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: of stuff like that. I met a young lady last

1062
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 3: week at a convention. I met her dad and she

1063
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 3: started a company called Cookies for Conservation and so where

1064
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 3: she started baking cookies in their kitchen, she would go

1065
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: out and selling. This was something that she wanted to do.

1066
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 3: She was thirteen or fourteen and she started selling all

1067
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: these cookies. She gives one hundred percent of the proceeds.

1068
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 3: I'm sure she buys cookie dough and stuff with her,

1069
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 3: but she gives on a hundred percent of her proceeds

1070
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: to wildlife habitat and generating wildlife habitat. And he's like

1071
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 3: that you are the one that inspired her to do

1072
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 3: this stuff. So yeah, and I got I got another guy.

1073
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 3: He's like, hey, can I take a picture with you.

1074
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 3: He's like, my kids are gonna flip out. He's like

1075
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: you are and this is so weird. But he's like,

1076
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 3: your our kids reward for if like they crush their

1077
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 3: metrics during the week of school and sports or whatever.

1078
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 3: They get to watch Donnie Vincent films on the weekend,

1079
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 3: and it's just like, yeah, so it's.

1080
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 2: Stuff like that that, and I've.

1081
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 3: Received very little negative, you know, feedback some of it.

1082
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 3: You know, some guys don't want to listen to the

1083
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: long drawn out answers or writing or kind of the

1084
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 3: reflective nature of it.

1085
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: They don't want to do that.

1086
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 3: And then of course, you know, some people are just

1087
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 3: you know, they're just against what what I'm doing all together.

1088
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 3: But it's very few, very few.

1089
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: What's interesting is I think that even vegans see some

1090
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 1: value and what you're doing. Oh like, you're not getting

1091
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: all these letters from vegans that are negative, many are positive.

1092
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 2: Many many are positive. And then they are curious.

1093
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 3: They'll say, Okay, for instance, I'll tell you one I

1094
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 3: did this shoot years ago. We did this shoot with

1095
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 3: a company called zeal Optics. They make sunglasses and snow

1096
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: goggles and stuff. And they invited they invited us out

1097
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: to this big photo shoot and where they're doing a

1098
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: new catalog and I was one of their athletes. And

1099
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: so it was me and all these red Bull dudes

1100
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: and girls, all these super talented people. And so the

1101
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: first night we all got in this house and everyone's

1102
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: in the Red Bull gear and I'm just sitting there

1103
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 3: like I've seen you in a magazine. I've seen you

1104
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 3: in a magazine. I'm you know, I'm sitting there and

1105
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 3: the guy's like, okay, first thing first, we're going to

1106
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 3: go around a room. Say your name, you're disciplined what

1107
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 3: you do, and you know while you're here. And so

1108
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 3: all these people are going around like I'm a professional snowboarder,

1109
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 3: I'm a professionel down hill, mountain bike or all this stuff.

1110
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: And there's a guy named Mike Dowdy.

1111
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 3: He's i think the best wakeboarder in the world out

1112
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 3: of Florida. Been a Red Bull guy forever. And he's

1113
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 3: laying on the couch and he has his Red Bull

1114
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 3: baseball cap over his eyes, which, if anyone knows anything.

1115
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 2: About Red Bull, you can't even buy a Red Bull

1116
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: baseball cap. So if you see somebody with a.

1117
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 3: Red Bull baseball cap, like, they're probably have gods of talent.

1118
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: So anyway, he's laying there with his baseball cap on

1119
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: his eyes, and it's going all the way around and

1120
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 3: it comes to me and I'm like, my name's Donny Vincent.

1121
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 3: I'm an adventure bowl hunter and they're all kind of

1122
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: looking at me, and he lifts his cap up and

1123
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 3: he looks over and he says, what did you just say?

1124
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 3: And I said, my name's Donny Been someone adventure bow

1125
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 3: hunter filmmaker. And he just sat there and he's like,

1126
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 3: coolst fricking thing I've ever heard in my life.

1127
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: And he put his hat back over his face. And

1128
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: so all of those people, most of.

1129
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 3: Those people, a lot of those people were, you know,

1130
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 3: against hunting or had questions about hunting, or were vegans

1131
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 3: or vegetarians or whatever. And the next morning I was

1132
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: up early getting a cup of coffee and one of

1133
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 3: the dudes was a professional surfer and he's like, man,

1134
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 3: I've never eaten meat in my entire life. He goes,

1135
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 3: both my parents eat meat because I've never eaten meat

1136
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 3: in my entire life. But he said I and he

1137
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 3: kind of looked around. He's like, but I've always wanted

1138
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 3: to be a bow hunter. And he's like, what is

1139
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 3: that all about? And I goes from our ancestry, man,

1140
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 3: I said, you you know, and he's like, I feel

1141
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 3: this connection in the waves he talked about feeling the

1142
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 3: energy of the earth and the waves, and he's talking

1143
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 3: about seeing fish and all this stuff, and I was

1144
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 3: just like, that's He's like, where's that coming from? And

1145
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: I said, that's from us being hunters and gathers. Your

1146
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:48,919
Speaker 3: ancestors hunted and gathered and would skin buffalo and eat

1147
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 3: meat and would forage. And I said that was a

1148
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 3: very successful way for us to live and a very

1149
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 3: rewarding way for us to grow muscle in our minds

1150
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 3: and to learn our thumb and great fire. And so

1151
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 3: I said, that's probably where it comes from.

1152
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: And I've had other vegans and vegetarians.

1153
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 3: In fact, I probably received more positivity from that community

1154
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,919
Speaker 3: of people than I have from hunters, if you will.

1155
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 3: And they have questions and then they want to say

1156
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: They'll say, I don't want to be a hunter, but

1157
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: my wife and I would like to start shooting rabbits

1158
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 3: that we have on our land and eating rabbits. And

1159
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 3: I say, okay, So I kind of give them. They

1160
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 3: I'd say, okay, do you want to do it with

1161
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 3: a bowl or with a gun? We want to do

1162
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 3: with a gun. At first, I'm not skilled with the ball. Okay,

1163
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 3: buy this gun, and we talked about it, and then they

1164
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 3: send me pictures of like him and his wife in

1165
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: the kitchen, skinned out rabbits, carrots, cut off, all this stuff.

1166
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: And then they'd send me and it's funny because they

1167
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 3: would say to me, I don't want to be a hunter,

1168
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 3: but this is what I want to do. And then

1169
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 3: you know, obviously I'm sitting there on the backside going

1170
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 3: they'll look now, but you're a hunter. Doesn't mean you

1171
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 3: have to go out and try to shoot the biggest

1172
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 3: deer on the land, or go out and shoot a

1173
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 3: giant caribou that you're going to mount and hang on

1174
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 3: the wall, or you know some of the things that

1175
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 3: we do around our films or whatever.

1176
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 2: And and like with you, I remember.

1177
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 3: When I mailed you and your beautiful wife a box

1178
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: of elk meat from the elk that I killed in Nevada.

1179
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 3: I remember right away you mentioned me back and you're like,

1180
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 3: I think this is the finest mean I've ever eaten.

1181
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: I think that's what You're awesome.

1182
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: And even she liked it, and she's not a big

1183
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: meat eater. She was worried at first, and she was,

1184
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: this is actually great.

1185
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 3: It's awesome. And then you going and getting your caribou

1186
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 3: and having your caribou meat and your caribou hide, and

1187
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: you know, and and uh, yes, it's been a it's

1188
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: been a lot of inquisitive people. And I get a

1189
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 3: lot of people that write me that will say, hey,

1190
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 3: I totally disagree with you killing this mountain lion, but

1191
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 3: can you walk me through the how you did it

1192
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 3: and and why you did it? And I walk them

1193
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 3: through it, and they'll say, you know, Okay, I didn't

1194
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 3: like it, but I totally appreciate your explanation and the

1195
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 3: why you did it and how you did it and

1196
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 3: all these different things. And I like those conversations. I

1197
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 3: think it's really important. Like I said, we live in

1198
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 3: that gray area.

1199
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: So a lot of people who are listening to this

1200
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 1: right now, they may not want to hunt, they may

1201
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: have no interest, But how can they take some of

1202
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: the lessons from your hunts and find ways to apply

1203
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: them to get a lot of the same benefits. And

1204
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you an example here. So after

1205
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: our hunt, I started spending a lot more time in

1206
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: the wilderness, and I just did this forty five day

1207
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: backcountry hike across southern Utah I wasn't hunting. I was

1208
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: walking every day. But I will say I experienced a

1209
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 1: lot of the same benefits that I did when I

1210
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: was reporting the comfort crisis with you up in Alaska

1211
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: for more than a month. How do you think that

1212
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: if people don't want to hunt, how do you think

1213
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: they get some of the benefits you do? And to

1214
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: sort of set this off, I'm going to read you

1215
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: a quote of yours. To experience fantastic things, you have

1216
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: to put yourself in fantastic places. What can that tell us?

1217
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's funny. I said that. I said

1218
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 3: that sentence when we're on the top of a mountain

1219
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,120
Speaker 3: in the Arctic Circle. We're in the Mackenzie Mountains of

1220
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: the Northwest Territories. And when I said that to one

1221
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 3: of my crew and I was like, you want to

1222
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 3: experience fantastic things, you have to put yourself in fantastic places.

1223
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: But really, I've come to realize that that fantastic place

1224
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 3: that you have to be in is in your mind,

1225
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 3: because the reality is you and I could go out

1226
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 3: in my I'm in a log cabin on ten acres

1227
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 3: of woods here in Wisconsin, and you and I could

1228
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 3: go out and set a tent right now on my

1229
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 3: ten acres and get a couple of bows out, or

1230
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 3: a couple of twenty twos out. We could go and

1231
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 3: hunt my population of gray squirrels that I have here

1232
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 3: amongst all my oak and maple trees and kill three

1233
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 3: or four or five gray squirrels, skin them out, bring

1234
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 3: them back to our tent, start a fire and cook

1235
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 3: them in a frying pan over our wood stove and

1236
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 3: the TP, and sit down and have this podcast. Dare

1237
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 3: I say this, You're in Las Vegas right now, right Mike,

1238
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 3: when I'm in Wisconsin. We're doing this over our computers.

1239
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 3: If you said, hey, I want to experience something while

1240
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,919
Speaker 3: we do this, and I said, okay, well fly out here.

1241
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 3: We'll hike around my ten acres, we'll kill a couple

1242
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,479
Speaker 3: of squirrels, we'll sit down on the TP, we'll start

1243
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 3: a fire, and we'll cook the squirrels over the fire,

1244
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: and we'll have this conversation the TP. Our experience would

1245
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 3: be tenfold what it is over a couple of computers.

1246
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: And so I realized you don't have.

1247
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 3: To go to the Arctic Circle on hunt carryboar adulship

1248
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 3: or gris le bears You can do this in your

1249
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: own backyard.

1250
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 2: You can do this in a state forest. You can

1251
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 2: do this.

1252
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 3: It's a presence and a mindfulness that is the fantastic

1253
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 3: place for you to be in. And even if you

1254
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 3: don't want to hunt, you know you can become a fisherman.

1255
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 3: If you don't want to fish, then you can just

1256
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: explore and the walk about that you just did the

1257
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 3: forty five day walk about. Go and do that. Watch

1258
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 3: the sun come up, watch the sun go down, Understand

1259
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 3: when the rain is coming, when the wind is coming.

1260
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 3: Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out

1261
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 3: on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

1262
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 3: It's without a doubt you can't. You can't come out

1263
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 3: the other side if you live in your essence of

1264
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 3: what's the first rule of a masogi, don't die right.

1265
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 1: Make it really hard. The second rule is don't die.

1266
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 3: Second rule, don't die. Beyond that, you will come out

1267
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 3: a better person. Yeah, that's that's for sure.

1268
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: I'll say. For me, the time in the wilderness has

1269
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: always been my greatest teacher because it strips away control

1270
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: and I feel like modern life, a lot of the

1271
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: technology we have is to put us in control of

1272
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: every variable. We've got calendar scheduling everything out, we've got

1273
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: technology that can deliver food, we've got xys. Everything is

1274
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 1: predictable and in control, and when you get outside that

1275
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: all gets stripped away. You might get lost. You can't

1276
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: predict what the terrain is going to be like, you

1277
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: can't predict what the weather is going to be like,

1278
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: shit is going to go totally off the rails. But

1279
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 1: you got to figure it out. And it's in that

1280
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 1: process of having certainty and control stripped away where you

1281
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 1: have to figure it out, that people begin to realize

1282
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: something that I think we've lost, and that's that you

1283
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: can just figure things out and do things and become competent.

1284
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: And then for me, that tracks back into everyday life

1285
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: where I get an email I don't want to deal with.

1286
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: I go, you know, you just survived a lightning storm

1287
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: mount in the desert. I think you can be okay,

1288
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 1: go into this meeting you don't want to go to.

1289
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 1: And that just changed that fundamentally changes your relationship to

1290
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 1: your everyday life.

1291
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 3: For me at least, I totally agree. And I think

1292
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 3: like when you were with us in the Arctic, I

1293
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 3: could see it on your face.

1294
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: You were bored. There's portions of.

1295
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,920
Speaker 1: That time where you're like, so damn bored.

1296
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 2: Now what do we do? You know?

1297
01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 3: Because when you're out there, are there animals or aren't animals?

1298
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 3: It's our animals. How do we get into position to

1299
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 3: look at them better? How do we get into position

1300
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 3: to maybe take one and take it back to camp?

1301
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 2: Is it raining? Do you have to put your rain

1302
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 2: gear on? Or is it not raining?

1303
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 3: Are you cold? Do you have to put your down on?

1304
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 3: Or are you cold and it's rain you need to

1305
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 3: put your down And you start going through these things like, oh, hey,

1306
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: we need it's we have no idea what day it is,

1307
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 3: but we know we need water, and we know we're

1308
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,360
Speaker 3: running low on food, and we know we are probably

1309
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 3: going to have to hike to the next drainage because

1310
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 3: the caribou don't seem to be coming through here any longer.

1311
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 2: But those purities for me.

1312
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 3: Having a tent, having to maybe have a wood fire

1313
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 3: and carry all your supplies in the backpack and have

1314
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 3: to deal with, you know, one hundred mile an hour

1315
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 3: wind or an eighty mile an hour wind, or being

1316
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 3: bluff charged by grizzly bear and having a grizzly that

1317
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 3: is now starting to harass your camp because he realizes, like,

1318
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 3: if I harass these guys enough, I'm gonna be able

1319
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 3: to steal all their food and maybe even you know,

1320
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 3: like kill one of them or whatever. And you know,

1321
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 3: you start to like break all these things down. But

1322
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 3: there's an essence, the simpleness of it that is such

1323
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 3: a pure way of living life. And but when you

1324
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 3: come from the rat race, like if I took somebody,

1325
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 3: and I've loved to do this sometime, but if you

1326
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 3: took somebody that had to totally like take a guy

1327
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 3: that goes clubbing every night or something like that in

1328
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 3: New York City and just take him out there and

1329
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 3: then just be like, yeah, this is, first of all,

1330
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 3: we're going to hike ten miles today, and you are

1331
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 3: going to hate yourself. There's gonna be blisters all over

1332
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 3: your legs and your thighs are gonna chafe, and you're

1333
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 3: however strong you think you are in the gym, and

1334
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 3: this is going to wear you out.

1335
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: It's not gonna work, Yep, not gonna work.

1336
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:42,760
Speaker 3: And then you're gonna sit there and have to reflect.

1337
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 3: And I just think that stuff is I often think

1338
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 3: what if we didn't What if things just continued in

1339
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 3: the hunter and gather society? You know, who would we

1340
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 3: be as a people? What would the world look like?

1341
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 1: Very interesting final pal questions. What's your most important pieces

1342
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 1: of gear?

1343
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is it's your mindset.

1344
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: And that comes through getting out there. And I feel

1345
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: like that's an equation of time and not quitting. Like

1346
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: we talked about in the beginning, you need to go

1347
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: out prepared enough. You need to know that there's going

1348
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: to be a lot of hurdles, but you just got

1349
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 1: to take them one at a time, and in the

1350
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: process of hurdling, you get better at hurdling.

1351
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've even seen people do you know, like

1352
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 3: we might have gear in the essence of, you know,

1353
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 3: really nice rain gear so we can go further in

1354
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 3: the rain.

1355
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 2: We might have really.

1356
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 3: Nice down gears, we can exist further into the cold.

1357
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,680
Speaker 3: But if you look at the guys that were one

1358
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 3: hundred years ago and they were dealing with animal skins

1359
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 3: and wolves, and even look at some of the Eskimos

1360
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 3: now and some the tribes that are way up on

1361
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 3: the ice cap and stuff, like, they do amazing things

1362
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 3: with just seal skins and polar bear skins and things

1363
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 3: like that.

1364
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,400
Speaker 2: And really the gear.

1365
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 3: Is it's a hack if you will, and you even

1366
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 3: look at the stuff that we use. Another company made it.

1367
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 3: So it's this shortcut that we're complaining about. It's the

1368
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 3: same shortcut because if I had to go out and

1369
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 3: get a seal to make my mucklucks or get a

1370
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 3: seal to then make my part cut. Now we're talking

1371
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 3: like that's you know, that is a very real essence.

1372
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 3: But everything in life comes with it's kind of give

1373
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 3: and take. But I would say your mindset and positivity.

1374
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 3: I think people greatly underestimate our lack of time on

1375
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 3: the face of the earth. I think people greatly underestimate

1376
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 3: a positive attitude. And I think people greatly underestimate how

1377
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 3: interesting you are to the rest of us. If you

1378
01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 3: were just going to be yourself, no matter what that is,

1379
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 3: I people, we will find you. You be you, and

1380
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 3: we will find you terribly interesting.

1381
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:08,760
Speaker 1: That feels like a hell of a note to end

1382
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 1: on DONI my man, this was awesome. I really appreciate

1383
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: you coming.

1384
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 2: On same same anytime.

1385
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 1: Final question, what's our what's our next adventure? I feel

1386
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: like we're due for one.

1387
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're due for one. We need to figure we

1388
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 3: you and I need to talk. I'd love to go

1389
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 3: on a walk about with you where we're actually hunting

1390
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,600
Speaker 3: or doing something along those lines, or even maybe a

1391
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 3: sort of Canadian canoe trip where we canoe up into

1392
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,799
Speaker 3: a wilderness and have to pordage and paddle and shovel

1393
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 3: water for a bunch of days and go catch some

1394
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 3: fish and and I think there'd be a lot of

1395
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:45,439
Speaker 3: fun to just go and kind of sit back again

1396
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 3: reflect And I'd like to hear I've read all of

1397
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 3: your books, but i'd like to hear about them again

1398
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 3: from your mouth and and hear your ideas and the

1399
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 3: things that you're experiencing and and i'd really enjoy that.

1400
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: I'd love that. Man, let's plan on it. Thanks for

1401
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 1: coming on, man, Thank you, Thank you for having me.

1402
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 3: Michael, there you have it.

1403
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Donny Vincent for coming out of

1404
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: the wilderness for more than an hour to have an

1405
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: awesome conversation with us, and thank you for tuning in.

1406
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: As always, we're going to be in your feed twice

1407
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: a week, so please keep an eye out for more,

1408
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: and if you have any questions, please drop them in

1409
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: the comments or send us an email. Even better, if

1410
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: you want to send us a voice memo or a

1411
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 1: video of yourself asking the question. We would absolutely love

1412
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 1: that and we will try to answer as many as

1413
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: we can. Don't forget to hit subscribe, and as always,

1414
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: have fun, don't die