1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Everyone has a story I can learn from to be 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: fearless like her, to have the confidence to achieve my dreams. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: To know this ad that you're hearing. It starts out 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: with a little girl dressed in an Amelia Earhart outfit. 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 2: Then it pans to a montage of women playing golf professionals. Clearly, 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: nearly one hundred thousand girls are participating in lpga Usta 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: Girls Golf. It's about so much more than golf. It 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: sure is golf Lady, because this ad was paid for 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: by Chevron, who sponsored the program. And it's not just 10 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: Chevron either. Take a listen to this recent Conico Phillips ad, 11 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: which sounds like it's actually advertising an education nonprofit. 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: Who's gonna hold you back. 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: I always wanted to be a teacher. It was just 14 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: something that came natural to me. 15 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 4: If I knew I wanted to be a teacher when 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 4: I was a middle schooler, and now I'm a teacher 17 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 4: here at my old middle school. 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: Ads like these and the activities behind them, from sponsoring 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: sports events and teams to funding education initiatives or supporting 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: women in stem have become so common that you might 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: be wondering why I'd bother calling attention to them at all. 22 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: But it's important to talk about why companies, and especially 23 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: oil companies, spend so much money on stuff that is 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 2: entirely unrelated to their core business and why you almost 25 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: never see an ad that's about what they actually do. 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: It's not so much about being a good corporate citizen 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: as it is about seeming like a citizen period, someone 28 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: with ideas and policy positions, morals, ethics, a philosophy, a reputation, 29 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: and most of importantly, a personality that's mostly due to 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: a guy. Longtime listeners of this podcast might recognize one 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: of my long running obsessions. 32 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: Herb Schmirtz. 33 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: Here's what ol Herb had to say about the idea 34 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: of companies doing philanthropy for philanthropy's sake. 35 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: It shows a sophistication and awareness on the part of 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: corporations that they can tie their business interests to other 37 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 3: interests in the cultural and educational and philanthropic area and 38 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: yet be able to show to whomever's interested, whether it 39 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: be shareholders or whatever, that there is a bottom line 40 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: payout for the giver. 41 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: Herbschmirtz was a fascinating dude. He worked in military intelligence 42 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: and as a labor lawyer, sorting out disputes, mostly on 43 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: behalf of the government. In the nineteen sixties, he actually 44 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: helped to end a major life Shorman strike. Here's LBJ 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: and his labor secretary talking about it and. 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 5: Wants order longshowman. That's the serious one, and I should 47 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 5: I should sit down and bring you or give you 48 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 5: a complete memorandum on that that one is not in 49 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 5: good shape. The dock when is just not in good shape? 50 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 5: What can we do beforeward through it? And it's very 51 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 5: likely to bring it out. I had them in this 52 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 5: last week. And the trouble is that the that the company, 53 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 5: the employers want to settle it in Congress and the 54 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 5: union want to sell it in the White House. About 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 5: what it comes down to. 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: Schmertz also helped run JFK's presidential campaign. Eventually he ran 57 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy's campaign too and Ted's. In between running campaigns 58 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: for the Kennedys, Herb Schmertz had another job, VP of 59 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: Public Affairs for Mobile Oil. Mobile initially hired Schmertz as 60 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: a labor lawyer, but when he returned to work after 61 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: taking a leave of absence to work on Bobby Kennedy's campaign, 62 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: the company thought, hmmm, maybe someone so tight with the 63 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: Democrats would be more helpful in their public affairs office. 64 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: Schmertz thought the rough and tumbled tactics he'd learned of 65 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: running campaigns in DC could be helpful to Mobil too, 66 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: and so he got a promotion. It helped that the 67 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 2: company's CEO at the time, a guy named Rolly Warner, 68 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: had a lot in common with Schmertz. They were both 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: Ivy League educated but good at talking to normal people, 70 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: and they both thought it was important for Mobil to 71 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: stand up for itself more often. In the early nineteen seventies, 72 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,679 Speaker 2: with an oil crisis brewing and Americans pissed off about 73 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: waiting in line for hours to get gas, the two 74 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: hatched a plan to take charge of Mobile's public image. 75 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 3: You have to find unconveyed no ways to communicate to 76 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 3: the public. It's not a question of convincing the press 77 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 3: of anything. It's a question of convincing the public. And 78 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: to do the job properly, you have to really go 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 3: around the press, or beyond the press, or against the 80 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: press to get a story out so that the public 81 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 3: focus is on it, not the press. If you're just 82 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 3: going to limit yourself to getting the press to focus 83 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 3: on You're not doing the entire job. 84 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: At the time, issue advertising, this thing of an oil 85 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: company doing an ad about diversity or environmental initiatives, it 86 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: was relatively new. Schmertz eventually called it affinity of purpose marketing, 87 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: not great branding, but he explained why in a speech. 88 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 3: The term affinity of purpose marketing is a term that 89 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: I developed because the American Express has caused related marketing. 90 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 3: But it basically says the same thing. 91 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: Affinity of purpose marketing cause related marketing. Today this is 92 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: basically just marketing, But back then it was pretty revolutionary, 93 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: especially in the oil industry. Schmertz thought the company needed 94 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 2: to focus on ideas and issues rather than just selling 95 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: gas at stations, and to do that it needed more 96 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: than just the ideas themselves. Mobile needed a personality. Here 97 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: he is a leader in life, describing that personality, well, 98 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: it was multifaceted. 99 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 6: It was a personality where we believed very strongly about 100 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 6: the importance of public policiation. Secondly, we believed fervently that 101 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 6: as a sort of a custodian of a large corporation 102 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 6: and as custodians of vast resources and employment and everything else. 103 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 6: That we were not doing our job if we did 104 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 6: not participate in the marketplace of ideas. Third part of 105 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 6: our personality was we believed in that a democracy is 106 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 6: composed of a group of free institutions. We believed in 107 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 6: free market, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, academic freedom, 108 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 6: freedom to organize and participate in union activities. 109 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: Government intrusion into the marketplace of ideas would limit our 110 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: freedom of speech and distort the selection of our leaders. 111 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: Wow, if Mobil was a person, they'd be kind of 112 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: a Dick Ben Shapiro as a company. Anyway. You'll note 113 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: too that a lot of these so called personality traits 114 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: are more like policy positions. But over time, Schmertz started 115 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: to do various things to build out a sense of 116 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: who Mobile was, and he very intentionally did things that 117 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: no other oil exec had really thought about doing. At 118 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: one point he described his approach to this as being 119 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: like a political campaign for a company. He sponsored a 120 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: bunch of art exhibitions, for example, and started a literary prize, 121 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: the Pegasus Prize, in nineteen seventy seven, to honor works 122 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: from country whose literature is rarely translated into English. For Mobile. 123 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,559 Speaker 2: It also helped to strengthen the company's relationships with various 124 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: Middle Eastern countries where it was hoping to drill for oil. 125 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: Schmertz also hired writers to write weekly opinion pieces that 126 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: he edited and paid to run them in The New 127 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: York Times, and of course, he sponsored Masterpiece theater. 128 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 5: The Bust of Base Theatre is brought to you by Mobile, 129 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 5: proviting the fuel but helps public television. 130 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: Run Hirschmertz wrote a whole book about his tactics. It's 131 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 2: called Goodbye to the Low Profile. In Spanish, it went 132 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: by the much better title Elsilenzio noesentable. Silence isn't Profitable. 133 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: In it, Schmertz implores his fellow PR guys to stop 134 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 2: being nice to the press, to stop being quiet about 135 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: it when they think that the press is being unfair 136 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: to them, and to start shouting their ideas from every 137 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: corner of the public square that they can access. Schmertz 138 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: gives a fascinating window into his whole process in this book. 139 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: At one point he talks about commissioning a survey to 140 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 2: gauge the public's opinion of Mobile before and after the 141 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: launch of his big issue advertising push, and he remembers 142 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: fondly how the survey taker said to him, Mobile must 143 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: be the thinking man's oil company. Did the survey taker 144 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: actually say that, We'll never know. The point is that 145 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: was Herb's goal, classing up Mobile and making it the 146 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 2: literary gentleman of oil companies. But while there is a 147 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: lot of evidence to suggest that Herb really liked to 148 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: hobknob with the creative elite, that wasn't the goal. It 149 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: was just a fun side benefit. The point was humanizing Mobile, 150 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 2: making him seem smart and trustworthy. Oh yeah, Mobil is 151 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: definitely a hymn I bother making an oil company seem 152 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 2: like a smart, trustworthy dude, so that when he came 153 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 2: at you with ideas. 154 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: Like, hey, why don't we be more off for drooling. 155 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: You might be more likely to think it's not a 156 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: terrible idea. 157 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 7: According to the US Geological Survey, there may be sixty 158 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 7: billion barrels of oil or more beneath our continental shelves. 159 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 7: Some people say we should be drilling for that oil 160 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 7: and gas. Others say we shouldn't because of the possible 161 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 7: environmental risks. We'd like to know what you think, write Mobile, 162 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 7: Pole Room six four nine one fifty East forty second Street, 163 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 7: New York, one one seven. We'd like to hear from 164 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 7: all of you. 165 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 2: So, Okay, this is interesting history, right, but why are 166 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: we talking about it today? Well, at a certain point, 167 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 2: Schmertz and Warner ran into an obstacle. They wanted to 168 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: take the advertorial program that they've been running with The 169 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: New York Times and do it on TV. 170 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: Two. 171 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: Schmertz commissioned a few videos, and they went to the 172 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: big three TV broadcasters, ABC, CBS, and NBC. Remember this 173 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: was before cable was widespread and long before streaming. The 174 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: three big broadcasters were a major source of information and 175 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: entertainment for the American public. 176 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: Two of the. 177 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 2: Three, ABC and CBS turned the ad buy down flat. 178 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: They said it would violate their ethics clauses and that 179 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 2: it might run a foul of the fairness doctrine, which 180 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: required broadcasters to present both sides of controversial issues. They 181 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: told Schmertz that when it came to covering important political issues, 182 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: they left that to their journalists. Running these new fangled 183 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: ads of mobiles felt like broadcasting propaganda and they weren't 184 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:58,479 Speaker 2: into it. Let's all pause for a moment and appreciate 185 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: in America in which met corporations had a shred of 186 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: dignity for Mobile, though this was an all hands on 187 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 2: deck moment. If the TV guys said this was propaganda. 188 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: What if the New York Times started to feel weird 189 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: about running it every single week. What if PBS decided 190 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: its partnership with Mobile was no longer kosher. What if 191 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: all that work on developing a personality, getting their ideas 192 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: into the public square was just a waste of time. 193 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: In the end, they couldn't have it, and so they 194 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: developed a strategy that would protect their new human version 195 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: of Mobile. And that is a problem we are still 196 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: very much dealing with today. That's the story we're going 197 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: to get into in this drilled mini series. Welcome to Yeah, 198 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: Why Not herb? A three part mini series on the 199 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: oil guy who popularized corporate personhood and how it's become 200 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: one of the biggest problems facing climate action today. Part one, 201 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: The Panic After this quick break. 202 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: Mister Olsen, are you taking the position that there is 203 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 4: no difference in the First Amendment rights of an individual? 204 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 4: The corporation, after all, is not endowed by its creator 205 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 4: with inalienable rights, So is there any distinction that Congress 206 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 4: could draw between corporations and natural human beings full purposes 207 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 4: of campaign finance. 208 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 8: What the Court has said in the First Amendment context 209 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 8: New York Times versus Sullivan, Gross Chain versus Associated Press, 210 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 8: and over and over again a corporations are persons entitled 211 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 8: to protection under the First Amendment. 212 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: That's the late Ruth Bader Ginsburg talking to Ted Olsen, 213 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: former Solicitor General of the United States, a founding member 214 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: of the Federalist Society and a partner in the corporate 215 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 2: law firm Gibson Dunn, which represents Chevron along with several 216 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: other companies in the fossil fuel business. To the extent 217 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 2: that Americans think about the idea of corporate free speech 218 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: at all, it tends to hinge on this one Supreme 219 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: Court case from twenty ten, Citizens United versus the Federal 220 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: Election Committee. It was a weird case. Basically, a tea 221 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: party Republican group called Citizens United made a movie about 222 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton, and they thought it was a documentary, but 223 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: it was very obviously not. It was a bit of 224 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: campaign marketing. It was called Hillary the Movie. 225 00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: She is steeped in controversy, steeped in sleeves. That's why 226 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: they don't want us to look at our record. 227 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 2: Obviously, this was not a movie that was going to 228 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: get a theatrical release, but Citizens United had arranged to 229 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: release it as a video on demand offering on a 230 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: few cable channels right before the Democratic primaries in January 231 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, but it was classified as electioneering communication, 232 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: which had been made illegal by the Federal Election Commission. 233 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: The producers fed a lawsuit in the U. S. District 234 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: Court for DC, trying to get a ruling that would 235 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: allow them to show the film and various promotional ads 236 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: for it. The District court judges ruled that there was 237 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: quote no reasonable interpretation of the movie other than as 238 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: an appeal to vote against Senator Clinton, so it clearly 239 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: qualified as electioneering communication. The producers appealed to the Supreme Court, 240 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: which took the case up. For some reason, it was 241 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: a weird decision to begin with for them to even 242 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: hear this case, because by the time they could hear it, 243 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: the election would have been passed and the whole argument 244 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: would be a mood point. When it ruled in twenty ten, 245 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court upheld the District court on the fact 246 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 2: that the film was in fact electioneering communication. But it 247 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: applied what's called the strict scrutiny test to the First 248 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: Amendment and concluded that because the money for this film 249 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: wasn't being paid directly to a candidate for a campaign, 250 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: it wasn't illegal under the FEC's laws. Just to make 251 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: it clear, the Justices emphasize in their ruling that corporations 252 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: and labor unions can spend as much as they want 253 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: to convince people to vote for or against a candidate, 254 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 2: and they don't have to disclose who's paying for what 255 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: or to what end. 256 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 9: It basically says that from now on, corporations can spend directly. 257 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: From their treasuries. 258 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 9: And that opens up this, I mean incalculable pool of money. 259 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: This is Robert her a professor at the Journalism School 260 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: at the University of Oklahoma. I went looking for Professor 261 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: Kerr because he wrote two very detailed academic books about 262 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: what he calls the corporate free speech movement, and one 263 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: of them focuses entirely on mobile Oil's role in it, 264 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 2: which we're going to get to in a minute. But first, 265 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: more on the impact of Citizens United. 266 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 9: All the business corporations in the world can now spend 267 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 9: freely from their stockholders' money. Really, Over the years, because 268 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 9: I wrote so much about it, people often ask me 269 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 9: to participate in different kinds of discussions, and a lot 270 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 9: of people first will say, well, I think corporations should 271 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 9: have a right to speak, and that's a broadly held view. 272 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 9: Corporations should have a right to speak. And then when 273 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 9: I'll say, okay, but do you think they should have 274 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 9: a right If you've invested in a corporation, should they 275 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 9: have a right to spend your investment for political purposes? 276 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 9: And they almost always say no. Almost everybody, whether they 277 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 9: call themselves liberal or conservative, they almost always agree, well, no, 278 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 9: I invested that because I wanted to make a profit. 279 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: I don't want the. 280 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 9: Corporation deciding which political side, because when people think about it, 281 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 9: they realize, you know, wherever their personal political views lie, 282 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 9: if a corporation can spend the stockholders' money, they might 283 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 9: spend it for someone you support, but they could very 284 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 9: well spend it for someone you don't. 285 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: What a lot of people don't know is that there 286 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 2: was a key case that came a few decades before 287 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 2: Citizens United that was really the first domino to fall 288 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 2: on corporate free speech. 289 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 10: There was a pretty big effort to get a Supreme 290 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 10: Court ruling that basically supported corporate speech and the right 291 00:18:54,840 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 10: of corporations to do advertising of their not just product aising, 292 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 10: but of their you know, positions. 293 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: That's Brown University environmental sociologist doctor Robert Brule. The ruling 294 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 2: he's referring to was a case called First National Bank 295 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: of Boston versus Ballatti. It was brought by a bank 296 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,719 Speaker 2: that wanted to be able to advertise in favor of 297 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: a ballot referendum that it had also backed financially. It 298 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 2: violated a state law in Massachusetts that prohibited corporations from 299 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: this sort of political funding, but the bank decided to 300 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 2: challenge that law in a case that went all the 301 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: way to the Supreme Court and won. It was the 302 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: first time the Court had stepped in to define corporate 303 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: First Amendment rights. 304 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 10: I don't think people really appreciate how big of a 305 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 10: deal that was in shifting the rules of speech in 306 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,959 Speaker 10: the public space that now suddenly corporations could use their budget, 307 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 10: which are enormously larger than individuals, to advocate their position 308 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 10: in the public space. And as a sociologist, I would 309 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 10: say that what this did was it allowed for a 310 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 10: systematic distortion of the public space. Is that it gives 311 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 10: corporations basically a loudspeaker to amplify their voice above everybody else's. 312 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 10: And in a media environment where there's many, many competing voices, 313 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 10: the ability to get your message out repeatedly, over and 314 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 10: over and over again an opposition to other voices is 315 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 10: enormously influential in getting your viewpoint to be part of 316 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 10: the public discussion and eventually become part of the taken 317 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 10: for granted worldview. 318 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: And here's where we bring it back to Mobile Oil 319 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: and our old pal Herb Schmirtz. 320 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 10: And Mobile was one of the leading corporations to fight 321 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 10: for that legal right. 322 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 2: That's why Robert Kerr wound up writing a whole book 323 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 2: about Mobile's role in shaping free speech, a book he 324 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: actually interviewed Herbsmirtz for. 325 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 9: He was very pleasant, you know, a little bit argumentative, 326 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 9: but not much. He said that looking back, he thought 327 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 9: the Mobile op eds demonstrated that corporations can participate in 328 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 9: the dialogue and that Mobile had achieved leadership. 329 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: And that's basically true. 330 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 9: They did nobody, no one else utilized The New York 331 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 9: Times op ed page the way Mobile did. 332 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 2: I don't think he meant it this way, but wooh, 333 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: sick burn on the New York Times embarrassing. Anyway, Mobile 334 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,880 Speaker 2: didn't just shape public discourse by using the media as 335 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 2: a tool. It also got involved in shaping the legal 336 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 2: structures that would allow them to have more influence, to 337 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: be the loudest voice in the room. 338 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 9: He got into Bolotti some I don't think in his mind, 339 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 9: at least many years later, he wasn't looking back like, yeah, 340 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 9: we won that and that change history. He was on 341 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 9: the side that won and it did change history. And 342 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 9: of course that's the thing I can talk about endlessly. 343 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 9: But he said the reason they got into it at 344 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 9: first was that they saw the energy crisis of the 345 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 9: nineteen seventies coming, and it was a big deal anyone 346 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 9: who was alive then as I was, I mean, it 347 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 9: dominated not just media discussions but popular discussions. And you know, 348 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 9: man on the street, everybody was for years and years 349 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 9: was talking about the price of gasoline going up, the 350 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 9: long lines at the gas stations, and you know, sometimes 351 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 9: the gas stations closed because they had no gasoline. And 352 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 9: he said that Mobile felt that media in general were 353 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 9: getting it wrong and that they had to come in 354 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 9: and correct things. 355 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: That's why mobile got into what they called issue advertising 356 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: or affinity of purpose marketing. But they started to look 357 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: for ways the law could protect that type of marketing 358 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 2: because of one big threat to it in the early 359 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 2: nineteen seventies. Here's Schmertz talking about that threat in a 360 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 2: promotional video he made for the National Association of Manufacturers 361 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 2: to circulate to executives at other big corporations. 362 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 11: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, 363 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 11: or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom 364 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 11: of speech or of the press, while the right of 365 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 11: the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government 366 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 11: for a redress of grievances. That was the first Amendment. 367 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 11: And you may not be aware of it, but there 368 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 11: are two constraints imposed by television networks that we contend 369 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 11: are not consistent with these First Amendments, right, And I'd 370 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 11: like to discuss these constraints with you. 371 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 2: Yep, it was the TV thing I mentioned before. In 372 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 2: the early nineteen seventies, high on the success of his 373 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: Weekly New York Times advertorials, Schmertz tried to take a 374 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 2: video version to the three big networks, ABC, CBS, and NBC. 375 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: AC and CBS turned it down flat. NBC accepted a 376 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: couple of the ads, but asked for major edits. It 377 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 2: was a huge threat to this plan that he and 378 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 2: Mobile CEO Rolly Warner had cooked up to try to 379 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: mitigate the impact of the energy crisis on Mobile's reputation 380 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 2: and profits. But Schmertz sold it as a huge threat 381 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: to all businesses and to the American way of life. 382 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 11: The first constraint, what you may not be aware of, 383 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 11: is that the television networks take the position that controversial 384 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 11: issues of public importance should only be presented in formats 385 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 11: determined by broad cash journalists. They contend that the public's 386 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 11: interest will best be served by this limitation. The second 387 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,959 Speaker 11: constraint involves the ability to purchase time to present what 388 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 11: we contend is issue or opinion advertising. The networks take 389 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 11: the position that they will not sell commercial time to 390 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 11: advertisers to present what they define as controversial issues of 391 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 11: public importance. Now, some of the things that they have 392 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 11: considered controversial are offshore drilling, oil company profits. The energy 393 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 11: crisis itself has been considered a controversial relationship by one 394 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 11: state station. Now When you put these two constraints together, 395 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 11: the result is that the American people are not getting 396 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 11: adequate information to make up their minds on a very 397 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 11: crucial issue, namely, the energy crisis and the development of 398 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 11: adequate energy for the United States. 399 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: Schmertz and Warner immediately started talking to business groups like 400 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: the National Association Manufacturer Is, the Chamber of Commerce, and 401 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: various economics clubs about this looming threat against American business 402 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 2: and with it, democracy itself. They wrote op eds, They 403 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: went on the radio. They highlighted the problem in their 404 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: weekly New York Times spot. They argue that TV was 405 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: doing a superficial job at best of covering the energy crisis, 406 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: and that by rejecting mobiles ads, they were robbing the 407 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: American public of crucial information. 408 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 11: And the result is that you get really superficial coverage, 409 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 11: a visually attractive story, not one that really relates to 410 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 11: what caused the shortage, what caused the crisis, and where 411 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 11: do we. 412 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 7: Go from here? 413 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 11: Now, that would be all right if we were allowed 414 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 11: to run the commercials that we think the people are 415 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 11: entitled to receive and the information that we would like 416 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 11: to impart to the American people, And indeed if others 417 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 11: were allowed to present their views, so that the American 418 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 11: people received a very wide spectrum of views and could 419 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 11: get all the information and then make up their mind 420 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 11: on these important natures. But we're not allowed to do that, 421 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 11: as I said, Television networks say that they will not 422 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 11: accept commercials that. 423 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: Deal with controversial issues. 424 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 11: So that means, as I said, that the issues that 425 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 11: we want to present only can be presented in formats 426 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 11: determined by broadcast journalists. We can't say it the way 427 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 11: we'd like to say it. And you, the American people, 428 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 11: really are not getting an adequate opportunity to get satisfactory information. 429 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 2: We still hear arguments like this today. So let me 430 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 2: just emphasize here that the First Amendment protects speech, it 431 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: does not guarantee reach. Nowhere in the Constitution is every 432 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: American promised a primetime TV slot. Here's an example of 433 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 2: one of the ads that Mobile wanted to run. 434 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 5: Well, I thought I'd never see this. This country is 435 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 5: big and huge and it can do just about it anything, 436 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 5: and let something like this happen. It's unbelievable. 437 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 4: I find it very disillusioning to find that government seems 438 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 4: to be as naive as all of us. 439 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 10: I don't know. 440 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 5: It could be the oil company not being prepared for 441 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 5: all the gas that we. 442 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 11: Need, the people themselves, everybody. 443 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 7: It's just we went crazy. Last twenty years has been nuts, 444 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 7: you know, with cars, and I don't know what we 445 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 7: could do about. 446 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 5: It about the shortage. 447 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 7: I think people are trying to use less gas themselves. 448 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 3: I feel we can be very much self sufficient if 449 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: we just tap our own resources. I don't feel that 450 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 3: our own resources have been tapped enough. 451 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 2: Well. 452 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 3: Like I said, it was beautiful before, this is ridiculous. 453 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 4: A standing line to get gas. 454 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 5: We agree, and we're looking for oil everywhere we can, 455 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 5: as fast as we can. 456 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 11: This commercial was made during the period of long gas lines, 457 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 11: and this version was rejected by all three networks because 458 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 11: they contended a dealt with a controversial issue. 459 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: Keep in mind, this was a pre bloody At the time. 460 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: The networks relied in part on the fairness doctrine to 461 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: justify rejecting ads from mobile It didn't necessarily prohibit the 462 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: networks from taking these kinds of commercials, but it did 463 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 2: give them cover to reject things they just thought were 464 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: not appropriate. 465 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 11: Now we've been running ads on the opposite the editorial 466 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 11: page of The New York Times for about three and 467 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 11: a half years. These, in effect, have been paid editorials 468 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 11: where we have had an opportunity to present our views, 469 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 11: views different, indeed frequently from the editorial policy of the 470 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 11: New York Times. That hasn't caused the Times any problem. 471 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 11: They've been delighted to receive these ads, and indeed they've 472 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 11: been delighted to increase the spectrum of views. 473 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: The networks, on. 474 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 11: The other hand, have gone just the opposite direction. They 475 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 11: have said that they will not develop a structure to 476 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 11: accommodate a wide spectrum of views and have relied on 477 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 11: the fairness doctrine and have said only broadcast journalists will 478 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 11: present views. 479 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 2: That difference, of course, was mostly to do with the 480 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: fairness doctrine which applied to broadcast networks like ABC, NBC 481 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 2: and CBS, but not two newspapers like The New York Times, 482 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 2: which schmertz knew, of course, but acknowledging that fact would 483 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: not have served his argument that the TV networks were 484 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: being uniquely unfair to mobile. 485 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 9: I asked him did he sell Mobile on this, and 486 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 9: he insisted no, it was the other way around. That 487 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 9: management came to him Raley Warner, who was the CEO 488 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 9: back then, had a pretty good interview with him. A 489 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 9: lot of things he said were consistent with what Schmert said, 490 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 9: and he did say that, yes, I was angry about 491 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 9: the way the media were getting everything wrong and I. 492 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: Wanted us to be a bigger voice. 493 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: What it did, Warner confirm what Schmert said about Ballotti. 494 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 9: You know that he sort of. 495 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 2: Put that on Schmertz's radar. 496 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 9: Yes, I think they saw it as just sort of 497 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 9: a organic piece of what they were doing with trying 498 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 9: to speak out more in general, because they really got 499 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 9: active about seventy two with their op eds, and then 500 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 9: Bellotti probably came on the radar when it was first 501 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 9: kicking around the Lower Court, so they would have picked 502 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 9: up on it even though it didn't involve the petroleum 503 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 9: industry in any way. They just saw it as chance 504 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 9: of expand First Amendment rights for corporations. 505 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 2: And they didn't stop there next time. How Mobile turned 506 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: the tide on corporate personhood, why Exon kept that work 507 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 2: going once the two merged, and how it all played 508 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 2: out in Nike's sweatshops in the nineties. Drilled is an 509 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: original Critical Frequency production. This season is produced and sound 510 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: designed by Mark Saltz Austwick. Our sound engineer is Peter Duff. 511 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: Additional reporting by Julia Manipela, fact checking by Woodan Yan. 512 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 2: Our first Amendment attorney is James Wheaton. Marketing is handled 513 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: by Maggie Taylor. Our artwork is by Matt Fleming. The 514 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: show is written and reported by me Amy Westervelt. Primary 515 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: documents and additional information related to this series are available 516 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: on our website at drilled dot Media. You can also 517 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: sign up for our weekly newsletter there. 518 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: If you'd like to. 519 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: Support our work, you can upgrade to a paid subscription 520 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: to the newsletter, or subscribe on Patreon or Apple for 521 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: early and ad free episodes plus bonus content. There are 522 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: lots of ways to support us for free too. You 523 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: can share the show. You can leave us a rating 524 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: or a review that really helps us find new listeners. 525 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: Linking to the show on social media is great too. 526 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening and supporting us. We'll see you next time.