1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to Everybody's Business. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 3: I'm Max Chafkin and I'm Stacey Vanocksmith and Max. 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 4: In last week's episode, we decided to predict the future 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 4: what twenty twenty six would hold, and as it turns out, 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 4: we are already wrong. 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 5: We're a weekend, did not have the situation in Venezuela 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 5: on our Bingo cards. But luckily David Popadopolis, expert in 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 5: all things economic in Latin America, is going to be 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 5: here later in the show to tell us basically how 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 5: we got here. 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 4: We will also be joined by the wonderful Dina Shanker, 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 4: who will talk to us about many New Year's resolutions 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 4: are made up of wanting to get in better shape, 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 4: wanting to lose a little weight. Now, of course, with 16 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 4: JLP ones that whole equation has changed and the restaurant 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 4: industry is actually cashing. 18 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 6: In on it, which is very interesting. Diana will join 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 6: us to talk about that. 20 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, an interesting and arguably gross portion of the show, 21 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 5: but we'll we'll get there. 22 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: And for our underrated stories. 23 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 5: We are going to continue our coverage of very old 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 5: people doing very important jobs. Absolutely and I have a story, Stacy, 25 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 5: that will help people. 26 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: Anyone's trying to, you know, meet a new. 27 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 5: Person in twenty twenty six, they're going to get ticks 28 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 5: and tricks from some of the smartest people in Silicon Valley. 29 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: I can't say that any of these ideas are good, 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 2: but it is. 31 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 4: Our ideas, Okay, No bad ideas, no bad. 32 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: Ideas, okay, Stacy. 33 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 5: Before we get to all of the bigger stories, wanted 34 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 5: to hit a couple of news items, starting with the 35 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 5: US economy. 36 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: It's early, what have we learned so far? 37 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 3: I think the big story. 38 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 6: Right now is the job market. 39 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 4: We got some very disappointing jobs numbers just in and 40 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 4: hiring is totally anemic. Layoffs are rising, and I think 41 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: that's going to be just one of the big stories 42 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 4: this year. 43 00:01:59,040 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 44 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 5: The two bits of news I wanted to mention before 45 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 5: we get to the media the show. One is that 46 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 5: Trump went on a sort of true thing tear yesterday. 47 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 6: We're social social media platform. 48 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: Exactly he was. 49 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 5: He was truth and right and left on Wednesday yesterday 50 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 5: as we're recording this. One of these was around executive 51 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 5: pay for people who run defense contractors. The other is 52 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 5: a proposed ban on private equity firms buying up single 53 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 5: family homes. 54 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 4: Yes, this is very interesting because like I I this 55 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 4: was very under the radar for me. 56 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think this is an issue that is 57 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 5: big for both populist right wingers as well as populist 58 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 5: left wingers. Like I haven't looked to see what Elizabeth 59 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 5: Warren has said, but the kind of like that wing 60 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 5: of the Democratic Party has tended to like this kind 61 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 5: of thing. Also the kind of you know, far right 62 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 5: of the Republican Party, kind of the JD Vance area 63 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 5: of the Republican Party. 64 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: Now, I want to say, first of all, Blackstone Stock. 65 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 5: Blackstone, one of the big investors in buying up single 66 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 5: family homes and renting them to people, immediately fell yesterday. 67 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 5: It felt like nine percent, it gained a little bit. 68 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 5: I closed the day. I think it was down five 69 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 5: or six percent. No one knows if this is going 70 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 5: to happen, And I think we should kind of put 71 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 5: a pin in this and maybe talk about it, you know, 72 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 5: sometime later this year, because it raises all sorts of 73 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 5: kind of important questions about like why have rents gone 74 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 5: up so much? Why have home prize has gone up 75 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 5: so much? And you know, Trump is at least talking 76 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 5: about maybe doing something about that. 77 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 4: I think that could be kind of dangerous because housing 78 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 4: demand is so low right now, and so few people 79 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 4: are willing to take out a loan at this moment 80 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 4: when interest rates are pretty high. That the private equity firms, 81 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 4: although they might not be our favorite source of housing demand, 82 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 4: or at least. 83 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 6: A source of housing demand. 84 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 4: And I don't know if we want to mess with 85 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 4: the housing market in that way right now, but certainly 86 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 4: a lot to talk about in the future. 87 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Again. 88 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 5: And then the last thing is, we are getting very 89 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 5: close to a Supreme Court ruling on these tariffs. Remember 90 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 5: there were we talked about this. I don't know what 91 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 5: like six months ago. A trade court in the US 92 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 5: invalidated these Liberation Day tariffs. 93 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: This has been working through the Supreme Court. 94 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 5: A couple of weeks ago, I mentioned that companies, many 95 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 5: companies had started suing the Trump administration, including Costco. 96 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: That number is up to one thousand. 97 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 5: We think a Supreme Court ruling on these tariffs could 98 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 5: come as early as Friday, and Stacy, if that happens, 99 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 5: I'm gonna be calling you about an emergency episode. 100 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 4: You can call me, you can call as many times 101 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: as you want, Max, Jeffkin, I'll take the call. 102 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 6: How about that. 103 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 5: I'll take care all right, and I'll take that promise, okay. 104 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 5: And and Stacy. The other thing is we got some 105 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 5: numbers about congestion pricing in New York City. 106 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 4: Yes, now, this was like, there's a zone in Manhattan 107 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 4: where traffic is notoriously bad. 108 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 6: You have a car, Max, so you know this. 109 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: I'm a motorists. 110 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 6: Yes, you were motorists. You know this more intimately than 111 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 6: I do. 112 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 4: But this was put in place early last year, I believe, 113 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 4: and it was intended to both help the traffic situation 114 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: in the middle of Manhattan but also raise money. 115 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, SuperH controversial, and in New York we wound up 116 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 5: with policy that pretty much no one liked. 117 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 2: Donald Trump was mad about this, and a lot of. 118 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 6: Business owners were mad about it. Computers were mad. 119 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: About a lot. 120 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 5: Also, a lot of the supporters of congestion pricing were 121 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 5: mad because they said that the price so right now 122 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 5: costs nine dollars to. 123 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 2: Go below sixty third Street in New York City. 124 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 5: But Stacey, we got some data and it's starting to 125 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 5: look pretty good for congestion pricing. Traffic is down eleven 126 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 5: percent the previous year. They've also raised a lot of money. 127 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 5: Five hundred and fifty million dollars in revenue. 128 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 6: Would you raise like more than half a billion dollars? 129 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, And that's enough as I understand it, for the 130 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 5: sort of the MTA, the entity that administers the subways 131 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 5: and the trains and the buses here in New York, 132 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 5: to do the capital improvements that they wanted to do. 133 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 6: So like that I am very interested in. 134 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 5: Basically it's working like it's it's lowering traffic, it's it's 135 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 5: raising money, it's doing the things that advocates wanted it 136 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 5: to do. And it doesn't seem now this is this 137 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 5: is my I guess, and maybe we'll find out a 138 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 5: little bit more in a second. But it doesn't seem 139 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 5: like people are that mad about it. They're just paying 140 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 5: the nine bucks and moving on with their lives. 141 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 3: Although we did want to hear specifically from New Yorkers. 142 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 6: Didn't want to just word on the street exactly, so. 143 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 4: We sent our wonderful producer Charlie Gorvin out into the 144 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 4: field to talk with real life New Yorkers about how 145 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 4: they feel about congestion pricing. 146 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: I think it's stupid. 147 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 7: I don't think that New York States should charge us 148 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 7: twenty five dollars to travel in our own city that 149 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 7: we live in. 150 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: This is one of the best cities to live in. 151 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 6: So if you want to have the privilege to come 152 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 6: to New York City, yeah, you should. 153 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: Be increasing the tolls and stuff like that. I feel 154 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: like it doesn't do anything for the people. 155 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 8: That have to travel out of the city to get 156 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 8: to their job. 157 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: This is like additional tacks on the people. Like you 158 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: notice less traffic, not. 159 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 6: As much because it's still New York City. 160 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 8: You know, a lot of a lot of people. 161 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: People do whatever they got to do. 162 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: I think I've kind of noticed fewer cars, but I 163 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: don't think it's great because it ice is out people 164 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: who have less money from the city. 165 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 4: It hasn't stopped me from coming in, but it's really expensive. 166 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: What do you think the way forward is? If it's 167 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: not more taxation, make it more expensive, then less people 168 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: can do it. If you just basically. 169 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 5: Enable people who have more money, yeah, can I enjoy 170 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 5: the roads better? 171 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 4: Just perpetuating inequality tolls and stuff like that are unconstitutional 172 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 4: restricts freedom of movement, Like if I didn't have twenty 173 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 4: five dollars to go through the Lincoln Tunnel. 174 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 6: What do I do? 175 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 7: It just is what it is, and New York City 176 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 7: is a place that it doesn't stop. Everybody complained about 177 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 7: traggestion prices, but now we just have to deal with it. 178 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: I love the tolls are unconstitutional? 179 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 4: Wow, I mean, listen, I'm from Idaho, lots of libertarians there. 180 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 6: I feel like this. 181 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: Do you agree, Stacy, our tolls unconstitutional? 182 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 8: I do? 183 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: You're ready to take this all the way? 184 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 4: I want to say this, I hate tolls because in 185 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 4: the West we don't really have them. 186 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 2: All the roads are real ways. 187 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 4: But I logically speaking, cannot really argue against them. 188 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 5: As somebody who lives in New York City and drives 189 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 5: a car sometimes but not every day, I have found 190 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 5: the congestion pricing like mildly annoying, Like every time I 191 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 5: crossed that barrier, I think, m that's nine dollars I 192 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 5: no longer have. 193 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: But honestly, I've just accepted it. 194 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 4: But you also aren't like living at the poverty line 195 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: or anything like. 196 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 5: No, And I'm also not commuting every day, and I 197 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 5: might feel differently if I were driving in every single day. 198 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 5: This is more like a once a week kind of 199 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 5: charge for me, not a everyday charge. 200 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 4: It was just like that guy said, it is what 201 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 4: it is. If you live in New York, you just 202 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 4: this is just part of the deal, just fees prices 203 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: going up. 204 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 6: Yeah. 205 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kind of my take. 206 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 5: And then of course we had your take, which is 207 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 5: never sovereign citizen forever my take. 208 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 6: I just noted it. It was a noted take. 209 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: Stacy. 210 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 5: As we mentioned at the top, been kind of a 211 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 5: crazy week or so in geopolitical news. Yes, the US, 212 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 5: as most people listen to this no masted a sort 213 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 5: of military operation in Venezuela, effectively snatched, arrested the president 214 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 5: and his wife there at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. Chaos, 215 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 5: it seems on the streets. Also, there's economic chaos, and 216 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 5: we wanted to kind of unpack this with the guy 217 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 5: we go to when we're trying to understand a complicated 218 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 5: South American economy, my friend former Elon Inc. Co Host 219 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 5: David Popadopolis. 220 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: David, how are you, Max, Stacy? 221 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 8: Happy New Year to you both. 222 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 4: Happy New Year, and you are at this very moment 223 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 4: in fact in Argentina, Is that right? 224 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 8: Yeah? I just flew right over Venezuela. 225 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 7: We blew that one I should have I should have 226 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 7: parachuted out of the plane. 227 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 2: So not that close, but on the right continent. 228 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 5: But you do have a lot of experience covering the 229 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 5: Venezuelan economy, right. 230 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it's where I cut my teeth as 231 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 7: a journalist three decades ago. It was a very different Venezuela. 232 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 7: Then it was the Venezuela that Ugo Chavez and his successor, 233 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 7: NiCoT l Asmade we're about to take over. But yes, 234 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 7: it's a country that I've been covering throughout my career 235 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 7: for sure. 236 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: So we don't know where this is going to go. 237 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 5: There's right now there's a lot of discussion about, Okay, 238 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 5: well what happens to Venezuelan oil. Donald Trump has said 239 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 5: he is the US is sort of taking it, which 240 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 5: seems strange I'm not sure legal, but any case, and 241 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 5: there are a lot of bond traders and oil company executly, 242 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 5: a lot of people kind of in the world of 243 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 5: business who are making moves. But we want to understand, 244 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 5: like how we got here, because Venezuela was once like 245 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 5: a very rich country. 246 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 8: Absolutely, I mean Venezuela for decades. 247 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 7: Really most of the twentieth century, certainly the first seventy 248 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 7: some odd years of the twentieth century was a stable, 249 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 7: wealthy country. Oil was discovered there early in the twentieth century, 250 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 7: which is part of. 251 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 8: What led to a lot of that wealth. 252 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 7: And you know, max oil, if you go back and 253 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 7: look at historical charts, was really pretty stable for decades 254 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 7: and decades, and so too, as. 255 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 8: A result, was largely the Venezuelan economy. 256 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: They were, I mean, the price of oil was stable. 257 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 7: The price of oil and so both in times of 258 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 7: Venezuelan democracy which kind of emerged in the sixties and 259 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 7: the dictatorships that preceded it, the governments were pretty good 260 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 7: for the most part. I mean, in seventy three, the 261 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 7: price of oil goes bonkers. 262 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 8: You get the Yam Kappor war and. 263 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 7: The US backs Israel. The Arab States do not take 264 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 7: well to that. They impose an oil embargo in the 265 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 7: United States and the price of oil goes from four 266 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 7: dollars of barrel to forty eight dollars of barrel unbelievably quickly. 267 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 7: And none of what's happening today, the whole Trump Moduto thing, 268 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 7: none of the stuff that you've seen or read about 269 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 7: in recent months or years. None of it happens without 270 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 7: the oil shock in nineteen seventy three. 271 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 8: Because in nineteen seventy three, when. 272 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 7: OI goes from four dollars to forty eight dollars, and 273 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 7: in Venezuela, the like, holy shit, we're unbelievably rich, We're 274 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 7: stupid rich. And they do something that in hindsight wasn't 275 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 7: so smart. 276 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 8: They go out and they just go. 277 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 7: On unbelievable spending binge that includes the nationalization of the 278 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 7: oil industry. 279 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 8: They start nationalizing all. 280 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 7: Sorts of companies, steel companies and phone companies. 281 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 8: All sorts of things. With all this wealth they have. 282 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 5: This was the Grand Venezuela, Right, this is like it's 283 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 5: good times and the government is sort of expansive. 284 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: And and just incredibly well spending nationalizing. 285 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, this is the time when Venezuelans are traveling to 286 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 7: Miami for one day shopping trips. 287 00:12:59,200 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 8: Right. 288 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 7: Thevenezuelan boulevar, which is now worthless, essentially so much so 289 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 7: that you guys know, I have it as some Venezuelan 290 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 7: boulevars on my desk in the office, and I hand 291 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 7: them out and Max has got some bolevars right there. 292 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 2: I've got one right here. We can talk about later. 293 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 8: There was a time actually this is the late sixties. 294 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 7: Even prior to this seventy three boom with a bolevar 295 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 7: was such a valuable currencies, currency that people wanted across 296 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 7: the world that in a James Bond movie Thunderball, the 297 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 7: villain with the missiles trained on the UN says, Hey, 298 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 7: you gotta pay me, otherwise I'm gonna blow up the 299 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 7: UN and you're gonna pay me one hundred million dollars 300 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 7: in either Swiss frank or Venezuelan. 301 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: Boulevars, the two best currencies. 302 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 7: Venezuelan's were famous for. They were known as the Bavarato da. 303 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 8: Medos right wherever they travel. That's cheap. I'll take two, 304 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 8: any of it. Max. 305 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 7: What happens is any with any great boom story and 306 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 7: on the money goes to your. 307 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 8: Head, the boom goes bust. 308 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 7: A few years later, what happens Stacy Eurolpal Paul Volker 309 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 7: right onto the scene. 310 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, raises interest rates, causes a recession in the US. 311 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 6: Trying to battle inflation. 312 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 7: Trying to battle runaway US inflation and double digits and 313 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 7: vulgar does indeed crush inflation, but in the process he 314 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 7: absolutely blows up the price of oil in many commodities, 315 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 7: and so the price of oil, which had gone from 316 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 7: four to forty eight, absolutely plunges back to around somewhere 317 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 7: around ten dollars. And all that spending you had done, 318 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 7: and all that new lifestyle you Venezuela had taken on 319 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 7: at forty eight a barrel, and that you thought was like, hey, 320 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 7: this is the new normal. 321 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 8: Suddenly is no longer possible. 322 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 7: And by the way, one of the things I didn't 323 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 7: say is you've also added all these public sector government workers. 324 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 7: The Venezuela that I get to in the nineteen nineties 325 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 7: still has an unbelievably large public sector, you know, huge payroll. 326 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 7: So when oil plunges way back down, they can't pay 327 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 7: the bills. And here begins, you know, a twenty year 328 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 7: economic slide from seventy eight, from the Goes boom in seventy. 329 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 8: Eight all the way up. 330 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 7: I would say, basically to Chavez's election, ugl Chavis' election 331 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 7: in nineteen ninety eight, the twenty year hangover. 332 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 4: But also the economy really tanks. I mean, this is 333 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 4: beyond like a correction or a recession. From what I 334 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 4: understand right now, eighty percent of Venezuelans live below the 335 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 4: poverty line, and inflation reached levels that like are almost unimaginable. 336 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 8: What happens, you know, in the eighties and the nineties 337 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 8: that leads to. 338 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 7: The rise of Chavez, which then Chavez gets you to 339 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 7: Maduro and Madudo now. 340 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 8: Finds himself in jail. 341 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 7: And yes, there is a deep economic recession in the 342 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 7: nineteen eighties, Venezuelans find themselves increasingly poor and poor. And 343 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 7: when so Ugo Chavez, the radical young lieutenant colonel who 344 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 7: tried to overthrow the government in the early nineties, charismatic 345 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 7: and this and that, he's up for election in ninety 346 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 7: eight and he's like not all that dissimilar to a 347 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 7: Trump Borajavier Mile here in Argentina. He's this radical outsider 348 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 7: with this you know, radical message, and Venezuela's are like, 349 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 7: give me him. And so Chavez sweeps into power wildly popular, 350 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 7: takes the world by storm, right. 351 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 8: Becomes this big global figure for many years. 352 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 7: And what happens during the two thousands, basically the same 353 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 7: thing that happened in seventy three. Oil goes parabolic rises 354 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 7: all the way to one hundred and forty five dollars 355 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 7: a barrow, and Javis makes all the same mistakes that 356 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 7: they had made in the seventies. 357 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 8: He spends it. 358 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 7: All, nationalizes unbelievable numbers of things. 359 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 8: I mean, he just nationalizes. 360 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 7: And by nationalizing, he purchases, you know, with government. He says, 361 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 7: this is now a part of the government, radio stations, 362 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 7: TV stations, banks. 363 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 8: I mean, you name it. 364 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 7: He bought it, rank cattle ranches, everything right. And on 365 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 7: top of that, he commits the sin of all sins, 366 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 7: bills the goose that laid the golden egg. He kills 367 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 7: the state run oil company pet Avesa. He starves it 368 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 7: of money. He does not allow them to invest properly 369 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 7: in new wells and in their infrastructure. There's an incredible 370 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 7: brain drain, and Venezuela's oil production goes from you know, 371 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 7: over three million barrels a day, which is a good 372 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 7: amount for country's its size to collapse, is now twenty 373 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 7: some odd years later, all the way down to like 374 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 7: half a million barrels a day, which you know is nothing. 375 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 7: Texas alone, they're pumping like nine million barrels a day 376 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 7: for christ As so Chavis dies in twenty thirteen of 377 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 7: cancer suddenly, and he he actually actually hands a ticking 378 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 7: time bomb to his replacer, the aforementioned Nikoas motherwil. 379 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 5: Stacey talked about the poverty and like, David, you you 380 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 5: have these Bolivar notes that you keep on your desk, 381 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 5: and you gave me one. And the great thing about 382 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 5: not cleaning out your desk ever, which I don't, is 383 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 5: it's very to find stuff. So anyway, I found this 384 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 5: twenty bulevar note that you gave me, and I was 385 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 5: talking to some of our producers, and Julia, who's a 386 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 5: Business Week editor, said, oh, that's eight cents, and I 387 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 5: was like, I don't think it's eight cents. 388 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: This is twenty boulevards. I looked it up. 389 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 5: It's twenty new bowl of a current bulevars would be 390 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: worth eight cents, but they've revalued the currency over and 391 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 5: over and over again, and so I think I would 392 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 5: need ten thousand of these to make like one cent. 393 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: The amount of inflation is just sort of mind boggling. 394 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 8: It was mind boggling inflation. 395 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 7: And you're absolutely right, Max Venezuela under Madul for a 396 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 7: period of time and couldn't even like right now, I 397 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 7: believe they're not really publishing economic data because they were 398 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 7: too embarrassed by it. 399 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 8: The regime was. So we actually created. 400 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 7: The bureau and I did there several years ago our 401 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 7: own inflation index, the Bloomberg. 402 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 8: Cafe cornecchi and next. 403 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 7: It's a very simple index, but it's easy to get 404 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 7: your head around. 405 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 8: It's just a cup of cafe cornecche that. 406 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 7: We actually have somebody go out and buy at this 407 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 7: shop each in every week and we input it into 408 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 7: the system. We track broad brushstrokes inflation in the country. 409 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 7: And yeah, Max, there were times over the past decade 410 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 7: where Venezuel's inflation got to like five hundred and so, yes, 411 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 7: the value of those bolevars became just utterly worthless. And 412 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 7: what they kept having to do is just strip zeros 413 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 7: off the currency because like it got to like you 414 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 7: went to go buy that cafe con leche Stacey and 415 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 7: you need to like pay seventy eight million bolvars. 416 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 8: Right for a cup of coffee. 417 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 7: There got to a period of time this is like 418 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 7: Weimar Republic Germany kind of thing. We did a story 419 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 7: years ago where you would bring your money in to 420 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 7: buy something, and they. 421 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 8: Would just weigh on their Deli scale. They wouldn't count. 422 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: Them as we kind of wind down. 423 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 5: And I hate to reduce this to this question, but 424 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 5: I think if you're if you're sitting here in the US, 425 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 5: you're wondering, like, Okay, so let's say the US, leaving 426 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 5: aside the question of Venezuela and domestic politics and how 427 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 5: damaging it might be to our cause to go around 428 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 5: saying like, we're gonna take all the oil, but like, 429 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 5: is this actually gonna make like gas prices in the 430 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 5: US cheaper, like in the short term, in the long term, 431 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 5: in any term. 432 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 7: I I myself am pretty skeptical. I mean, it could happen, 433 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 7: but I mean seeing is believing. Right now, Venezuela on 434 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 7: the global stage is a tiny producer of oil. Just 435 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 7: getting that current oil freed up and flowing more isn't 436 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 7: gonna make enough of a difference. If you then say, hey, 437 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 7: but we the US are gonna get Chevron, who's already 438 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 7: there in Venezuela and it's been there for a while, 439 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 7: pumping more, and we're gonna also induce all these other 440 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 7: big major US oil companies to go down. And we're 441 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 7: gonna really exploit, you know, tap into that Venezuelan oil potential. Yeah, 442 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 7: maybe I gotta say that that you pull that off 443 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 7: and you really get US oil companies to have the 444 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 7: confidence to sink tens of billions of dollars into that 445 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 7: country and that they're gonna actually be able to recoup their 446 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 7: investment because the governments that come both after Trump believe 447 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 7: in this line and want to stick to it, and 448 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 7: moreover that the regime or the government in Caracas is 449 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 7: going to want to stick to it as well, to 450 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 7: have that confidence. Mean you guys, tell me, are you 451 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 7: seeing any US oil companies jumping up and down ready 452 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 7: to sink tens of billions of dollars into ven as well? 453 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 8: I'm not. 454 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 6: I was surprised at that. 455 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 4: I was surprised at how quiet the oil companies have 456 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 4: been and how much they've held back, and like they 457 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 4: don't seem to want to jump in here. 458 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 8: No, I would be astonished if they did. The math 459 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 8: is tricky. 460 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: Dave Poppatopolis, thanks for being here. 461 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 6: Thanks Max, So Max. 462 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 4: At the top of the show we talked about are 463 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 4: New Year's resolutions and of course losing weight. 464 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 6: Going to the gym is a big one for everybody, 465 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 6: including me. 466 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 4: But these days that industry looks a lot different because 467 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 4: of course of GLP won. 468 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, the old days, you'd be like my resolutions to 469 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 5: eat less, my resolutions go to jail. 470 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 2: Your resolution might. 471 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 5: Be to talk to your doctor about getting on GLP ones, 472 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 5: these weight loss drugs like ozeenpic that are changing everything. 473 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 4: Yes, and in fact, this number blew my mind. But 474 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 4: more than ten percent of Americans now used GLP ones, 475 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 4: and that is doubled from last year. 476 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 5: And Dina Shanker, BusinessWeek food columnist, is here. She's got 477 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 5: a new piece which is online right now, Stacey, and 478 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 5: it is all about the ways that GLP ones, these 479 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 5: weight loss drugs, are changing what people order at restaurants. 480 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 4: Yes, indeed, extra Salt is the column and Dina is 481 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 4: the guest. Welcome, Dina, thank you so much for having me. 482 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 6: I wanted to start out. 483 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 4: Very basically here because I assumed that GLP ones would 484 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 4: be a complete disaster for restaurants and for grocery stores, 485 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 4: because very famously, when you're on a GLP one, you 486 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 4: don't eat much. People forget to eat, they eat tiny portions. 487 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 4: This seems like a death knell for restaurants, but it 488 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 4: kind of hasn't been talk about how the restaurant industry 489 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 4: and food industry have adapted. 490 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, so since GLP ones started really making headlines, the 491 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: food industry has been. 492 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 6: Trying to figure out what that means for them. 493 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: It is pretty common in earnings calls for executives to 494 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: get questions about GLP seems like an existential problem, yes, exactly, 495 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: And what we're seeing now is we're able to see 496 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: how some of this is playing out. So I should 497 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: say that for the grocery industry, it is mostly very 498 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: bad news. People when they go shopping are making fewer 499 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: impulse purchases. They don't want salty snacks, they don't want cookies, 500 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: like all sorts of things that they used to buy. 501 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 6: They're not buying as much as the supermarket. So sad 502 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 6: face for the snack industry. 503 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: Okay, But unexpectedly restaurants can actually stand to benefit, and 504 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: some of them already are. We saw some data from 505 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: Circana which said that people on GLPAN spend more than 506 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: people not on GLP ones at restaurants, Yes, at restaurants, 507 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: and Numerator also had a finding specific to fast food. 508 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: The biggest beneficiary is the casual dining set, and. 509 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 3: That would be like your Chipotle's. 510 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 6: Now that would be more of a fast casual. 511 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: Casual dining would be more like an olive garden, a 512 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: place where you're going to sit down, a waiter is 513 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: gonna come, but you're not at fine dining. 514 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 6: So they are raking it in from GLP ones. 515 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: Some of them are certainly going to be seeing and 516 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: are may already be seeing an uptick from GLP one 517 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: users and their households, and so Sirkana, when I asked them, 518 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: I was like, why, Like what's driving this? They hadn't 519 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: dug into the why specifically yet, but they had some 520 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: ideas and as soon as you start thinking about it, 521 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: it actually makes a lot of sense. So one of 522 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: my favorite theories, and I spoke to a GLP one 523 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: user who had this exact experience, is basically, when you 524 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: are on GLP one's all that food noise turns off off, 525 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: which if you're the person in charge of putting dinner 526 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: on the table and your family, that might mean days 527 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: of shopping lists, planning, taking things out of the freezer, 528 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: marinating this, you know, picking up that that all just disappears. 529 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, it's six o'clock on Tuesday 530 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: and it's dinner time and you haven't thought about it yet. 531 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: So what do you do in that situation. You go 532 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: to a restaurant, Go to the Olive Garden. 533 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, so Olive. 534 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: Garden is showing up just in time with a perfect 535 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: solution for these kinds of families, or I shouldn't say. 536 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 6: A perfect solution, a solution of. 537 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: Sorts, which they say is not specifically for GLP one users, 538 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: but I feel. 539 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 6: Like we all know. 540 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, it's smaller portion sizes, and they're emphasizing the 541 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: affordability side of this because the smaller portions are going 542 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: to cost less money, and that also makes perfect sense 543 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: and also is in line with lack of other trends 544 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: that we're seeing. But for a GLP one user, it's perfect. 545 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 4: Like tiny endless pasta or like well, the breadsticks remain. 546 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: End like solidis right, The breadsticks are certainly endless. I 547 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: can't speak specifically to the to the endless nature of 548 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: the salad. 549 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 6: But the no one wants an endless that's no demand. 550 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: But the smaller portions they tested it last year it 551 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: was successful enough that this month they are rolling it 552 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: out nationwide and you say, like, what is it? So 553 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: it's the same food, it's just less of it. You know, 554 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: when you look at the regular Olive Garden website and 555 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: you look at how many calories are in their standard serving, 556 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: it's like twelve hundred calories and a bowl of pasta, 557 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: and like, don't get me wrong, like I could eat that, 558 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: but maybe I shouldn't, And so it makes. 559 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 6: Sense to just shrink it. 560 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: And that is good for a GLP one user, but 561 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: it's good for other people too, Like good. 562 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 6: For the restaurant, it's good for the restaurant. 563 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: It turns that restaurant into a destination for not just 564 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: the GLP one user, but their whole household. Which is 565 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: another reason GLP one users may be going to restaurants more. 566 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: Is because when you're cooking, you don't want to make 567 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: dinner for me, the GLP one user, and then dinner 568 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: for everybody else, And so when you go to a restaurant, 569 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: you have more control over your dish, and everyone has 570 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: that same level of control. 571 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 5: You know. 572 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 6: It's funny. 573 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: It used to be that the vegetarian was the veto 574 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: vote in deciding where to eat. You are a vegetarian, 575 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: I'm a pescatarian, which I feel like some people just 576 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: really need that distinction. 577 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 6: Okay, notice vegetarian specifically. Absolutely, I apologize, no, no. 578 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 2: It's not me. 579 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: But they used to be the one who would be like, well, 580 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: I looked at the menu and there's nothing for me 581 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: on that menu. And one thing I heard from from 582 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 1: talking to people was that increasingly GLP one users can 583 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: now play that veto vote role, and so you might 584 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: put that on your menu and it not only brings 585 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: in that one person, but it brings in their whole family, 586 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: their whole group. 587 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 5: Can I ask one of the things that's so interesting 588 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 5: about these GLP ones, and you hinted at it, is 589 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 5: that they like change how you your desire for food. 590 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 5: Not just food, right, but lots of other things. I 591 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 5: mean there's smoking, drinking, maybe even gambling and other things 592 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 5: like that. What do people are on GLP ones want 593 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 5: in food? Do they just want like a like a 594 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 5: sort of bland they just want soilent? 595 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 2: Basically they just. 596 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 5: Want like calories with none of the experience, or like 597 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 5: what are they actually looking for? 598 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: So one of the doctors that I spoke with told 599 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: me that people's tastes definitely change on GLP one's. 600 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 6: Not everybody's, but a lot of people's, But they. 601 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: Change in all kinds of different ways, and the only 602 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: thing that is consistent is that they want less. 603 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 6: Now, what they're supposed to eat is a different question. 604 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: What they're supposed to eat is a lot of protein 605 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: and then also fiber, and they're also supposed to stay 606 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: well hydrated. That's because of the muscle loss that you 607 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: can have with GLP one's and then the fiber to 608 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: help with you know, moving things through your system. And 609 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: the hydration is also related to that. So some people 610 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: will go from loving say McDonald's every day to finding 611 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: McDonald's absolutely. 612 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 6: Like just gross. 613 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: But some people will be like, I still love McDonald's, 614 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: but I just don't have room for it anymore. And 615 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: some restaurants are really catering very specifically to these groups, 616 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: even more than Olive Garden, like Smoothie King has a 617 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: GLP one line of smoothies. Restaurants just prote powder and water, 618 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but also like del Taco, like fast 619 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: food restaurants are also responding to this. Yeah, So Dell 620 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: Taco's a good example. They had a limited time offer 621 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: of a micro meal and basically they had what they called. 622 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 6: A mini burrito. 623 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: But basically they can just use like a taco, a 624 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: taco tortilla. 625 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 6: And make a mini burrito. It's it's fun. 626 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: It's like silly, right, because it's the same thing, except 627 00:29:59,000 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: it's just smaller. 628 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 4: This also seems like kind of a double win in 629 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 4: certain ways for restaurants because there were all these complaints 630 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 4: as food prices started to rise about shrink flation and 631 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 4: you know, portions getting smaller in all of these outraged 632 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 4: people saying like I used to get, you know, all 633 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 4: these chips in the bag, and now it's a tiny 634 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 4: amount of chips in the bag. This is actually restaurants 635 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 4: like turning a bug into a feature. It's like, we 636 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 4: can save money on food, and you know, I'm sure 637 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 4: they don't charge maybe as much as a full size meal, 638 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 4: but it's probably a premium. It's not if it's a 639 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 4: quarter of the portion, is probably not a quarter of 640 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 4: the price. So it seems like a huge. 641 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 6: Win, I think, I mean it does. It does seem 642 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 6: like a huge win. 643 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: And whether you're on a GLP one or not, a 644 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: lot of the time, you know, I mentioned like, some 645 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: of these Olive Garden postibles are like twelve hundred calories, Like, 646 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: you might not want to eat all of that, and 647 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: maybe there's not enough left to even make sense to 648 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: bring leftovers home, like, and so you end up just 649 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 1: feeling kind of like or maybe you eat it all 650 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: and then you feel bad and like. None of these 651 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: are good outcomes for the customer, and none of them 652 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: really make you necessarily want to go back? 653 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: Are there any good outcomes out an Olive. 654 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 6: Gardens so hot, take. 655 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: Just a question. 656 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: I remember their breadsticks being great at a time in 657 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: my life when I could actually eat unlimited breadsticks, enjoy it, 658 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: and not wake up regretting it the next day. 659 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 6: Yes, that would be when I was like fifteen. I 660 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 6: remember having a really nice date there once. Oh thee of. 661 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 3: Those press sticks. 662 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 6: They fill you up. 663 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 4: So if you have a limited budget, you know the 664 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 4: then Olive Garden's there for you. 665 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 5: So, Dina, you wrote in this piece that one of 666 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 5: the restaurants that has kind of modified their menu is Chipotle, 667 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 5: which is a fast casual not a casual dining thing anyway. 668 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 5: Chipotle just just recently December eighteenth, unveiled a new menu 669 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 5: item which we have here. Okay here, okay, so I'm 670 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 5: taking out like many little cups. Now Chipotle referred to this. 671 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 5: I just want to get the wording right. It's first 672 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 5: ever high protein menu featuring a new snack ready high 673 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 5: protein cup. They've called this, I believe a meat snack 674 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 5: or maybe just a snack anyway, a protein cup. 675 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 2: Of these are. 676 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 5: Chipotle protein cups. It is basically a tiny bowl of meat. Yeah, 677 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 5: and Charlie Gorman are very very dedicated. Reporter went to 678 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 5: Chipotle just now and purchased six meat snacks. 679 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, this is it's I think it smells good. 680 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 2: It's just a ball meat meat. Here, give me the 681 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 2: chicken one. Okay, so I'm looking at the chicken and 682 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: the steak. It's just like a ball of Chipotle. 683 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 6: Yeah. I think it's like the portion they put in 684 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 6: a burrito. 685 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: How much does it cost? 686 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 6: I think around four dollars? 687 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's not dinner though it's Chipotle chicken. 688 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 6: I recognize it. Could it be lunch? I feel like 689 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 6: this could be lunch. 690 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: Just could not be this. 691 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 6: It's tiny maybe too well. 692 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 4: This is coming from someone who's New Year's resolution is 693 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 4: to join a gym, but I'm like, like three of 694 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 4: them could be lunch. It is really interesting to me 695 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 4: that basically Chipotle did not develop anything special for JLP 696 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 4: one users. It's just packaging because this is like the 697 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 4: meat they normally put in their brito's, so they already have. 698 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 6: It's interesting. That's pretty much what Del Taco did too. 699 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: They basically used ingredients they already had and reassembled them 700 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: slightly or served them in smaller portions. And that's really 701 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: actually what is key to like doing this well for 702 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: a restaurant business is not you know, over. 703 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 6: Complicating the back of the hat. 704 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: It's not you know, having to you know, change how 705 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: you procure whatever, whatever. It's really just taking ingredients you 706 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: already have and reassembling them. 707 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 6: And I mean, so, like, go down Chipotle. I bet 708 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 6: this four dollar cup, I bet it does really well. 709 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 5: I don't think you really want to taste the inside 710 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 5: of your Chipotle burrito without all of the fixed Yes. 711 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 4: It feels like part of a kit and that has 712 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 4: yet to be assembled. 713 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 5: And this is like this is nimarish, but this is 714 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 5: the protein craze, Like this is what they're doing. 715 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 6: And if you don't care. 716 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 4: About how your food tastes, yeah, I mean, I mean 717 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 4: it tastes fine, it tastes good. 718 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 2: I think the chicken one is better than the steak one. 719 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 2: The steak one is so salty. 720 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: But like there's something like just gross about the protein 721 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: craze in general. 722 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 6: I think I eat more salt than you do. 723 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 5: That's like perfectly well, you're obviously referring to the food 724 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 5: pyramid which just came out, which basically like replaces all 725 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 5: the things that we were taught in school about what. 726 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 6: It's now the inverted it's now. 727 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's now upside down literally, which architecturally we probably 728 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 5: need to talk about at some point. But also yeah, 729 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 5: like steak, butter, this is all the food groups. 730 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, I mean, they really want you eating 731 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: a lot of meat on this new food pyramid, and 732 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: the broccoli and the turkey are like the same size. 733 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of that. There's I mean, 734 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of weird stuff going on there, but 735 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: there's a giant juicy steak right. 736 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 4: In the corner of it, and a giant stick of 737 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 4: partially unwrapped butter right in the heart of it, which 738 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 4: I was my favorite part of. 739 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: I think my favorite part was the jug of olive 740 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: oil right next to the milk. 741 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 6: Oh I thought that was wine. I was like, oh, okay, 742 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 6: I thought it was an RFK. 743 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 3: Junior like, it's good for your heart. 744 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 2: Come on, he looks. 745 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 4: Like a jug of wine olive oil in a. 746 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 6: Judge with a handle on it. 747 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 5: Dina Shanker, thank you, Thanks for having Thank you, Dina. 748 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: All Right, Stacy, it is that time. It's time for 749 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: the underrated stories. 750 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 4: Uh. 751 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 5: I know you've teased me with this one. Let's have 752 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 5: it all right. 753 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 4: So obviously, here in New York, the Venezuelan President Nicolas 754 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 4: Maduro is headed to court and the judge presiding over 755 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 4: the case his name is Alvin Hellerstein and he is ninety. 756 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 4: They have a ninety two year old judge. Yes, and 757 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 4: this judge has been a thorn in the side of 758 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 4: the Trump administration for a while. He ruled against President 759 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 4: Trump in the Stormy Daniel's case. He twice rejected Trump's 760 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 4: bids to move the case to federal court and also 761 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 4: the deportation of immigrants he also has blocked. 762 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,760 Speaker 3: But he is presiding over the case with Maduro. 763 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 2: Now I feel like we're doing this again. 764 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 5: I did we did this last episode or two episodes 765 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 5: ago with Philip Rivers, who was briefly the quarterback and 766 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 5: yes fight being yes forty five years old. And now 767 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 5: we have a very old judge and once again it's 768 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 5: the same kind of vibes. Right, you're just like, good, 769 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 5: good for you. 770 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 6: I know, I hope I'm doing my job, Yawn. 771 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 2: Are judges to be non genarians? Is that a good thing? Stacy? 772 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 4: I think it could be a really good thing. He's 773 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 4: got a ton of experience, he knows the law. He's 774 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 4: not trying to like angle to get some huge turning 775 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 4: point in his career. He's very established and as long 776 00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 4: as you know he does a good job, I'm. 777 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,280 Speaker 2: All for you. May be right, and that that comes 778 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 2: that brings us to my. 779 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,880 Speaker 6: Story the way he tell me, tell me. 780 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 2: All right. 781 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 5: So this is a headline in the New York Times, 782 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 5: and Stacey, I'm gonna I gotta warn you there's a 783 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 5: lot going on in this one headline. 784 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: Can you optimize love? 785 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 5: Subhead A group of tech executives, app developers, and Silicon 786 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 5: Valley philosophers is seeking to streamline the messy matters of 787 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:23,439 Speaker 5: the heart. 788 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 2: This is a lovely. 789 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 6: Something shouldn't be optimized story. 790 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 3: I'm very curious. 791 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 5: About this by Amanda has And Oh my god says 792 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 5: it is so funny. 793 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: There are so many just like weird, cringey things. 794 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 6: How are they optimizing love? 795 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 5: So, you know how like they're just some sort of 796 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 5: like basic things that everyone knows because they've been passed 797 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 5: down from human history, from you know, time immemorial, about 798 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 5: like how to find a mate, like you know, wash 799 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 5: your face, like where. 800 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: Presentable whatever, or you know whatever. 801 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 5: Like there's just some basics, and it seems like these okay, 802 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 5: and these guys are like, let's just let's start from scratch. 803 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 5: Let's figure out like all the elements that and think 804 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 5: about Let's think about like meeting like love the way 805 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 5: we think about maybe buying or selling a digital advertisement 806 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 5: or something. Here here's a quote from the story from 807 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 5: the social media manager of one of these companies, companies 808 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 5: called Keeper. He says, so the system, men say is 809 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 5: intended to go beyond a users quote general mate value 810 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 5: factor end quote, to honor each user's idiosyncratic desires. Mister 811 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 5: ash this is the social media manager provided an example 812 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 5: from his research. Quote, if the woman is about half 813 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 5: a standard deviation more agreeable, than the man. That's the 814 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 5: optimal point for relationship durability. 815 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 7: He said. 816 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: So it's like it's like, waya. 817 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 3: Why is this half a degree more agreeable? 818 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 5: I have no freedom again about have a standard deviation 819 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 5: more agreeable than the man. That's the optimal point for 820 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 5: relationship durability. I think he's saying that the woman should 821 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 5: be a little bit hotter than the man. That's what 822 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 5: I'm taking from. 823 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 4: I think it's a lot more like smiling and saying 824 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 4: okay as a person, sort of. 825 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 3: Like yes, grits are so such a great idea. 826 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: Okay, either way, it's gross. 827 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 5: I should also note that later in this article you 828 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 5: learn that the social media manager in question, on his 829 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 5: own personal dating profile has a quote that says I 830 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 5: love eugenics, which the company keeper has said is not 831 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 5: their official position. You'll be happy to know he is 832 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 5: still a social media manager. I also want to say that, 833 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 5: like everyone in this story, and and I think this 834 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 5: is because the photographer went to like one of these 835 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 5: cuddle parties, everyone is wearing socks in their portraits. 836 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 2: So like here like here are the founders. 837 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 6: My brain is still on cuddle. 838 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 2: Here are the founders of this company? 839 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 5: And there, and I just feel like guys like this is. 840 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 4: Big part of optimizing for love, not constricting your feet. 841 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 5: If you want to, like, you know, meet that special 842 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 5: someone you know, just maybe put on some. 843 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 6: Shoes, wash your face and put on some shoes. 844 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it doesn't. 845 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 4: We do not have to make it more complicated than 846 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 4: it's wash your face, put on some shoes, and maybe 847 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 4: do not ever ever use words about being more agreeable ever. 848 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 6: That is my unsolicited advice. 849 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 2: This show is produced by Stacey Wong. 850 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 5: Magnus Hendrickson is our supervising producer, and Amy Kean our 851 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 5: executive producer. Sam Rogich handles engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checks. 852 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 5: Sage Bauman heads Bloomberg Podcasts. Special thanks to Jeff Muscus, 853 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 5: Julia Rubin, Charlie Gorvin and Maria Ling and the Chipotle 854 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 5: on sixty second Street. If you have a minute, please 855 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 5: rate and review the show. It means a lot to us. 856 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 5: And if you have a story that should be our business, 857 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 5: email us at Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's Everybody's 858 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 5: with an ass at Bloomberg dot net. 859 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week.