1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. About a year ago, I got my hands on 2 00:00:22,436 --> 00:00:26,396 Speaker 1: this novel, unpublished but apparently based on a true story. 3 00:00:27,476 --> 00:00:35,436 Speaker 1: It was written by this guy, Ned Timmins. The overarching 4 00:00:35,516 --> 00:00:38,676 Speaker 1: plot was pure pulp. I mean, you could imagine the 5 00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:43,116 Speaker 1: movie starring Steven Seagal and definitely straight to video. It 6 00:00:43,196 --> 00:00:46,396 Speaker 1: tells the story of a newbie FBI agent named Ned 7 00:00:46,596 --> 00:00:50,516 Speaker 1: from Detroit who grows a Fu Manchu mustache, goes undercover 8 00:00:50,596 --> 00:00:54,396 Speaker 1: in a violent outlaw biker gang, and infiltrates a secret 9 00:00:54,436 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 1: syndicate that's smuggling hundreds of thousands of pounds of pot 10 00:00:58,556 --> 00:01:02,556 Speaker 1: into the country, and all that leads eventually to the 11 00:01:02,636 --> 00:01:06,076 Speaker 1: invasion of a foreign country and the arrest of a 12 00:01:06,156 --> 00:01:13,756 Speaker 1: brutal dictator. Skeptical, Yeah, so, as I see, I'm a journalist, 13 00:01:13,756 --> 00:01:16,436 Speaker 1: and my specialty, if you can even call it that, 14 00:01:16,916 --> 00:01:19,956 Speaker 1: his stories that seem too crazy to be true, stories 15 00:01:19,996 --> 00:01:22,916 Speaker 1: that are on the verge of urban legend. Most of 16 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:25,636 Speaker 1: them turn out to be bullshit, which doesn't bother me. 17 00:01:25,916 --> 00:01:28,596 Speaker 1: That's kind of the crux of my job, actually sorting 18 00:01:28,636 --> 00:01:32,716 Speaker 1: through the bullshit. So naturally I had to go meet 19 00:01:32,756 --> 00:01:36,156 Speaker 1: this guy one two one two, tell me, tell me 20 00:01:36,156 --> 00:01:40,076 Speaker 1: where we are. Your office, Like, describe where we are. 21 00:01:40,156 --> 00:01:45,036 Speaker 1: We're in a commerce township machine. Yeah, give me a 22 00:01:45,076 --> 00:01:47,036 Speaker 1: little bit more than that. How long have you had 23 00:01:47,076 --> 00:01:51,396 Speaker 1: your office here? Eighteen years? Ned is now in his 24 00:01:51,396 --> 00:01:54,516 Speaker 1: early seventies, walks with a limp. He's bald, but you 25 00:01:54,516 --> 00:01:56,516 Speaker 1: wouldn't know it because he likes to wear a weather 26 00:01:56,596 --> 00:02:00,876 Speaker 1: beaten camo hat. Nowadays he's a private eye. His office 27 00:02:00,916 --> 00:02:05,716 Speaker 1: is beige in a beige corporate park. Totally forgettable except 28 00:02:06,236 --> 00:02:09,036 Speaker 1: for the bear. It's the first thing you see when 29 00:02:09,036 --> 00:02:12,636 Speaker 1: you walk up a ten foot ground bear taxiger meat 30 00:02:12,676 --> 00:02:15,996 Speaker 1: in the classic rearing up to Eat You pose. Ned 31 00:02:16,036 --> 00:02:18,196 Speaker 1: tells me you got the bear on a hunting trip 32 00:02:18,236 --> 00:02:22,396 Speaker 1: in Alaska. But the real trophy that Ned keeps in 33 00:02:22,436 --> 00:02:28,276 Speaker 1: a plastic bag in his desk. Yeah, this is a 34 00:02:28,356 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: bag air penises and wolf teeth, and the Inuits believe 35 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:38,796 Speaker 1: that that will protect you. The bear has a bone 36 00:02:39,036 --> 00:02:44,356 Speaker 1: in his penis, and I recovered these, like after you 37 00:02:44,516 --> 00:02:46,636 Speaker 1: shot the bear, you would not before I shut it. 38 00:02:49,156 --> 00:02:51,636 Speaker 1: Nobody's going to take a bear dick when he's alive. 39 00:02:52,316 --> 00:02:54,196 Speaker 1: The Inuits would make a necklace out of this to 40 00:02:54,236 --> 00:02:56,796 Speaker 1: protect him. I just keep it in a bag because 41 00:02:57,476 --> 00:03:00,316 Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear a bear penis necklace around the office. 42 00:03:01,076 --> 00:03:02,916 Speaker 1: Do do you believe in it? It means you believe 43 00:03:02,996 --> 00:03:06,756 Speaker 1: in the like it's power of keeping you safe. Yeah, 44 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:10,556 Speaker 1: I do. I believe in it. I've been all over 45 00:03:10,556 --> 00:03:13,596 Speaker 1: the Arctic and lived two weeks at forty below zero 46 00:03:13,676 --> 00:03:18,756 Speaker 1: and all over Russia and you know where there's nothing 47 00:03:18,916 --> 00:03:23,796 Speaker 1: and keep a bare penis with me. I think there's 48 00:03:23,796 --> 00:03:27,196 Speaker 1: something out there that maybe it's only in your mind. 49 00:03:27,236 --> 00:03:30,116 Speaker 1: If it's in your mind and it works, I don't know. 50 00:03:30,196 --> 00:03:34,076 Speaker 1: I'm still here and have had many many close calls, 51 00:03:34,076 --> 00:03:41,916 Speaker 1: so here I am right. So at first read Ned's 52 00:03:41,996 --> 00:03:46,156 Speaker 1: unpublished novel seemed like a classic airport pot boiler, typical 53 00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:49,676 Speaker 1: cloak and dagger X cop kind of stuff, like when 54 00:03:49,676 --> 00:03:52,516 Speaker 1: the hero heads it on a case. It reads. A 55 00:03:52,596 --> 00:03:55,236 Speaker 1: quick shower and a breakfast of Alka seltzer and aspirin 56 00:03:55,756 --> 00:03:59,676 Speaker 1: had Ned feeling three quarters human again. That voice is 57 00:03:59,716 --> 00:04:02,716 Speaker 1: the actor Walton Goggins. We asked him to read from 58 00:04:02,716 --> 00:04:06,876 Speaker 1: Ned's novel. And in this novel there's some great characters 59 00:04:07,276 --> 00:04:11,636 Speaker 1: like the drug addicted pig and this pig he guards 60 00:04:11,636 --> 00:04:14,916 Speaker 1: a drug lab while munching on onions soaked in meth. 61 00:04:15,436 --> 00:04:18,676 Speaker 1: The novel tells us the dark and well bristled pig 62 00:04:19,076 --> 00:04:22,956 Speaker 1: was eyeing them with the disturbing, calculating look that pigs give. 63 00:04:24,116 --> 00:04:26,476 Speaker 1: Many of the details in the novel, like the pig, 64 00:04:26,876 --> 00:04:30,316 Speaker 1: were so quirky and distinctive they felt like they had 65 00:04:30,356 --> 00:04:35,076 Speaker 1: to be true. Other scenes seemed contrived, pure Hollywood. I 66 00:04:35,196 --> 00:04:37,636 Speaker 1: kind of felt like I'd gotten myself a guide book 67 00:04:37,676 --> 00:04:41,516 Speaker 1: that was about half accurate. There was a true story 68 00:04:41,556 --> 00:04:44,076 Speaker 1: in here, a real piece of history. If I could 69 00:04:44,076 --> 00:04:48,876 Speaker 1: just you know, extract it, Yeah, easier said than done. 70 00:04:49,396 --> 00:04:51,756 Speaker 1: I started making a to do list, like I was 71 00:04:51,796 --> 00:04:54,596 Speaker 1: going to the grocery store or something. Only mine went 72 00:04:54,716 --> 00:04:58,436 Speaker 1: something like this. One. Reach out to your contact at 73 00:04:58,436 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: the FBI, make sure ned's not a kuk. Two call 74 00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:07,956 Speaker 1: the CIA here like they'll tell you anything. Three visit 75 00:05:07,996 --> 00:05:10,836 Speaker 1: the guy who smuggled three hundred thousand pounds of pot 76 00:05:10,996 --> 00:05:14,516 Speaker 1: into the US in a single shipment, supposedly now lives 77 00:05:14,556 --> 00:05:19,156 Speaker 1: in Hawaii. Four track down that long lost mistress who's 78 00:05:19,156 --> 00:05:24,396 Speaker 1: living somewhere in South America. Shit. All of a sudden, 79 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,036 Speaker 1: the story felt like one of those five thousand piece 80 00:05:27,116 --> 00:05:29,876 Speaker 1: puzzles that my kids like to open up on vacation 81 00:05:29,916 --> 00:05:34,316 Speaker 1: and just spill across the floor, and then you see 82 00:05:34,316 --> 00:05:38,196 Speaker 1: a corner piece and a matching edge piece, and damn 83 00:05:38,236 --> 00:05:42,396 Speaker 1: if they don't fit, and then well there goes your vacation. 84 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:53,196 Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halbern and this is Deep Cover, Episode one, 85 00:05:53,876 --> 00:06:21,396 Speaker 1: The Masked Man. All that I really remembered about the 86 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:24,396 Speaker 1: drug wars of the nineteen eighties was there was this 87 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:28,116 Speaker 1: huge problem that the government was trying to fix with slogans. 88 00:06:28,476 --> 00:06:32,596 Speaker 1: You might remember, just say no. That was the battle 89 00:06:32,636 --> 00:06:36,436 Speaker 1: cry of President Reagan and his wife Nancy, distributed all 90 00:06:36,476 --> 00:06:39,116 Speaker 1: the way down to our teachers in high school. I 91 00:06:39,156 --> 00:06:42,156 Speaker 1: remember these lectures and thinking even then that they were 92 00:06:42,196 --> 00:06:45,156 Speaker 1: an idiotic remedy to the drug war. I even wrote 93 00:06:45,196 --> 00:06:48,356 Speaker 1: an op ed in my student newspaper just saying no. 94 00:06:48,796 --> 00:06:53,876 Speaker 1: Know to just say no, corny, I know, I was fourteen. 95 00:06:55,076 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 1: A little slogan was not going to kill the demand 96 00:06:57,676 --> 00:07:00,356 Speaker 1: for an entire drug market, and it sure as hell 97 00:07:00,356 --> 00:07:02,396 Speaker 1: wasn't going to stem the flow of marijuana that was 98 00:07:02,396 --> 00:07:05,676 Speaker 1: pouring into the country. And he kind of had to 99 00:07:05,716 --> 00:07:10,236 Speaker 1: wonder where was all that marijuana coming from anyway, and 100 00:07:10,316 --> 00:07:15,796 Speaker 1: how is it getting in? Historians are still debating this question. 101 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:19,796 Speaker 1: You can find reams of conspiracy theories, like it was 102 00:07:19,836 --> 00:07:22,796 Speaker 1: the CIA behind all the drug smuggling. That's still a 103 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:26,756 Speaker 1: hot one. In fact, the CIA will eventually figure into 104 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:32,396 Speaker 1: this story, along with celebrities, politicians, heads of state. But 105 00:07:32,676 --> 00:07:36,076 Speaker 1: we're getting ahead of ourselves now, because this story really 106 00:07:36,076 --> 00:07:41,556 Speaker 1: starts in Detroit with Ned Timmins at a rowdy roadside 107 00:07:41,596 --> 00:07:48,356 Speaker 1: biker bar. The bar was a roadhouse out in the sticks. 108 00:07:49,316 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: The dirt parking lot was full, mostly with motorcycles, nearly 109 00:07:53,636 --> 00:07:58,196 Speaker 1: all of them Harley Davidson's Those are the opening words 110 00:07:58,196 --> 00:08:02,796 Speaker 1: of Ned's novel, and where we'll begin our story. It's 111 00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:05,716 Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties. Ned Timmins is in his mid 112 00:08:05,836 --> 00:08:09,676 Speaker 1: thirties and early in his career at the FBI. He's 113 00:08:09,676 --> 00:08:13,916 Speaker 1: working fugitives, just basically going down at checklist and rounding 114 00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:17,916 Speaker 1: up wanted men. This was not a desk job. It 115 00:08:18,036 --> 00:08:21,716 Speaker 1: was an assignment for guys who wanted some action. As 116 00:08:21,796 --> 00:08:24,876 Speaker 1: Ned tells it, he got a tip about a fugitive 117 00:08:25,116 --> 00:08:27,236 Speaker 1: who was supposed to be at this biker bar in 118 00:08:27,316 --> 00:08:31,756 Speaker 1: the outskirts of Detroit. So Ned grabs his jean jacket 119 00:08:31,956 --> 00:08:35,516 Speaker 1: and his three fifty seven Smith and Wesson and heads out. 120 00:08:38,236 --> 00:08:40,676 Speaker 1: There was some mean motherfucker was in there. You know. 121 00:08:40,916 --> 00:08:44,476 Speaker 1: There was a hard ass, hirdcore biker bar. They're doing 122 00:08:44,556 --> 00:08:47,516 Speaker 1: shots and drugs. And it was a scene out of 123 00:08:47,516 --> 00:08:52,316 Speaker 1: a movie or a novel. In fact, here it is 124 00:08:52,356 --> 00:08:56,236 Speaker 1: in Ned's novel. A single sodium street light out on 125 00:08:56,276 --> 00:08:58,196 Speaker 1: the for edge of a parking lot, shone down on 126 00:08:58,236 --> 00:09:01,716 Speaker 1: a pay phone from that lonely pool of light. The 127 00:09:01,836 --> 00:09:04,276 Speaker 1: darkness of the parking lot reached out a good twenty 128 00:09:04,276 --> 00:09:07,556 Speaker 1: five yards before the glow of neon beer sign signaled 129 00:09:07,596 --> 00:09:11,796 Speaker 1: the borders of another America. This was the lawless America. 130 00:09:12,636 --> 00:09:16,276 Speaker 1: This was the rebel yell. This was easy money, fast 131 00:09:16,356 --> 00:09:24,556 Speaker 1: bikes and girls that were easier and faster than both. Nowadays, 132 00:09:24,636 --> 00:09:28,036 Speaker 1: it's hard to appreciate just how right our novelist is 133 00:09:28,236 --> 00:09:31,956 Speaker 1: about the lawlessness of biker botters in the eighties. Today 134 00:09:31,996 --> 00:09:34,516 Speaker 1: we might think of these guys as old graybeards who 135 00:09:34,596 --> 00:09:38,116 Speaker 1: putter around and three wheeled Harley's, but not back then. 136 00:09:38,596 --> 00:09:44,196 Speaker 1: These were dangerous men, drugging, partying and fighting. Here's ned 137 00:09:44,316 --> 00:09:47,876 Speaker 1: novelist again. The smell was the first thing that hit 138 00:09:48,596 --> 00:09:53,636 Speaker 1: old beer piss, bo reefer smoke and puke. The second 139 00:09:53,636 --> 00:09:56,996 Speaker 1: thing to hit was a cover charge two bucks and 140 00:09:57,116 --> 00:09:59,396 Speaker 1: a guy demanding it was the size of a freezer. 141 00:10:00,116 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 1: Bikers seemed to come in one of only two sizes, 142 00:10:03,076 --> 00:10:16,196 Speaker 1: big and really fucking big. Probably smells like sweat and 143 00:10:16,396 --> 00:10:21,156 Speaker 1: beer and Jack Daniels all mixed up together all the time. 144 00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:25,596 Speaker 1: That's Kathy Timmins, also an FBI agent in the Detroit 145 00:10:25,676 --> 00:10:29,516 Speaker 1: office and Ned's wife at the time. She remembers going 146 00:10:29,556 --> 00:10:32,116 Speaker 1: to one of these biker bars with Ned on another 147 00:10:32,236 --> 00:10:35,436 Speaker 1: night just to serve as cover, you know, his actual 148 00:10:35,516 --> 00:10:38,476 Speaker 1: wife pretending to be his girlfriend. And then if people 149 00:10:38,476 --> 00:10:42,796 Speaker 1: actually need to breathe, they go outside because the smoke 150 00:10:42,836 --> 00:10:44,876 Speaker 1: in the bar would be just that thick that even 151 00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:48,156 Speaker 1: a smoker couldn't tolerate it. You know, I mean people, 152 00:10:48,356 --> 00:10:50,356 Speaker 1: you know, the big fight going on over here, and 153 00:10:50,356 --> 00:10:52,436 Speaker 1: everybody else over here just sitting and talking. Other people 154 00:10:52,436 --> 00:10:57,436 Speaker 1: are shooting pool, just chaos. On this particular night, Ned 155 00:10:57,476 --> 00:11:00,796 Speaker 1: says he was looking for a fugitive named Toby Anderson. 156 00:11:01,316 --> 00:11:05,236 Speaker 1: Toby had quite a rap sheet. Apparently Toby's file was 157 00:11:05,276 --> 00:11:08,996 Speaker 1: about six inches deep and a lot of real violent stuff. 158 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:13,036 Speaker 1: You know, someone guns down on Kentucky and you know 159 00:11:13,236 --> 00:11:15,956 Speaker 1: this guy was a crew of criminal. He also happened 160 00:11:15,956 --> 00:11:19,076 Speaker 1: to be a country western singer, and his band supposedly 161 00:11:19,076 --> 00:11:23,356 Speaker 1: had a gig that night. This was one of their hits, 162 00:11:23,396 --> 00:11:32,196 Speaker 1: snitches that Rivol must die, Vol Must Die. I've been 163 00:11:32,316 --> 00:11:35,916 Speaker 1: called the sucker, but I killed the pick. Motherfucker that 164 00:11:36,156 --> 00:11:41,396 Speaker 1: tries still something of mine. As Ned tells it, the 165 00:11:41,436 --> 00:11:45,356 Speaker 1: bar was crowded with outlaw bikers. Ned knew that walking 166 00:11:45,396 --> 00:11:49,676 Speaker 1: in here as a plainclothes agent was extremely dangerous. Everything 167 00:11:49,796 --> 00:11:53,916 Speaker 1: was about the brotherhood, the code, your fellow bikers, even 168 00:11:53,916 --> 00:11:56,876 Speaker 1: the music. So Ned had his eyes on the band, 169 00:11:57,316 --> 00:12:01,116 Speaker 1: looking at the singer. He knew that Toby was supposed 170 00:12:01,116 --> 00:12:03,836 Speaker 1: to make an appearance on stage tonight. But could it 171 00:12:03,876 --> 00:12:06,636 Speaker 1: be that the lead singer of this band, the guy 172 00:12:06,716 --> 00:12:10,316 Speaker 1: up on stage right now, was his guy. There are 173 00:12:10,316 --> 00:12:14,956 Speaker 1: a lot of good people sitting in jail, Mom, punk 174 00:12:15,076 --> 00:12:19,036 Speaker 1: to the pigs, what they've done, well, we get in 175 00:12:19,396 --> 00:12:23,236 Speaker 1: all of that. If it took our ball math start 176 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:29,876 Speaker 1: killing the snitches for fawns, So Ned says, He saunters 177 00:12:29,956 --> 00:12:32,036 Speaker 1: up to the bar, takes a seat on a stool, 178 00:12:32,196 --> 00:12:34,916 Speaker 1: and just waits for his partner to show up. It 179 00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:38,076 Speaker 1: wasn't his regular partner, just a guy providing backup that 180 00:12:38,196 --> 00:12:41,956 Speaker 1: particular night. In the novel, Ned describes him as a 181 00:12:41,996 --> 00:12:45,476 Speaker 1: blue blooded preppie who arrives at this biker bar dressed 182 00:12:45,516 --> 00:12:53,676 Speaker 1: in penny loafers and to tie. The two of them 183 00:12:53,796 --> 00:12:57,756 Speaker 1: watched the stage together trying to find their fugitive, figure 184 00:12:57,796 --> 00:13:01,116 Speaker 1: out just who Toby was. All they had was one 185 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:04,436 Speaker 1: flimsy clue, a picture that was six or seven years 186 00:13:04,436 --> 00:13:08,076 Speaker 1: out of date. There wasn't really any mark, scars or tattoos, 187 00:13:08,116 --> 00:13:10,556 Speaker 1: which is nice if the you know, the guy's got 188 00:13:10,676 --> 00:13:13,956 Speaker 1: a swashtick on his cheek or something that. There was 189 00:13:13,996 --> 00:13:17,956 Speaker 1: nothing we could look at other identifiers. We just we 190 00:13:17,996 --> 00:13:21,676 Speaker 1: weren't sure. Ned waited for the band to take a break, 191 00:13:22,036 --> 00:13:26,796 Speaker 1: and then he went to suss things out. I followed 192 00:13:26,836 --> 00:13:30,836 Speaker 1: him in the bathroom and um, you know, I was 193 00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:33,236 Speaker 1: taking a piss beside him, and I said, hey, aren't 194 00:13:33,236 --> 00:13:38,036 Speaker 1: you Toby Anderson. He goes, nah, yeah, okay. I was 195 00:13:38,116 --> 00:13:41,316 Speaker 1: down in the keys with Toby and I swear you're Toby. 196 00:13:42,316 --> 00:13:45,396 Speaker 1: You just canna know, man, you get the wrong guy. 197 00:13:45,636 --> 00:13:49,516 Speaker 1: And UH said, don't you remember Sow and Sow his 198 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:52,836 Speaker 1: boat on Big Pine Key. H We partied down there 199 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:57,316 Speaker 1: and he was yeah, Oh yeah, I'm Toby. You know 200 00:13:57,796 --> 00:14:00,356 Speaker 1: what the fucks that to? You said? We just you know, 201 00:14:00,396 --> 00:14:03,796 Speaker 1: had a good time the night. Will I reach out 202 00:14:03,796 --> 00:14:06,116 Speaker 1: to shake hands with him, and I and I get 203 00:14:06,116 --> 00:14:08,836 Speaker 1: his hand and I'm shaking hands with him, and I 204 00:14:09,196 --> 00:14:11,476 Speaker 1: just lean up to his ear and said, Toby, FBI 205 00:14:12,596 --> 00:14:18,836 Speaker 1: and nine. He goes, fuck you and he starts to swank. Okay, 206 00:14:19,116 --> 00:14:22,836 Speaker 1: let's freeze frame right there in midpunch, because this is 207 00:14:22,876 --> 00:14:26,316 Speaker 1: not exactly textbook or rest protocol. I mean, there were 208 00:14:26,316 --> 00:14:29,516 Speaker 1: other ways to handle this, like waiting until Toby headed 209 00:14:29,516 --> 00:14:32,476 Speaker 1: out to the parking lot, or even just following him home. 210 00:14:32,996 --> 00:14:35,396 Speaker 1: But this is the first thing you need to understand 211 00:14:35,436 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 1: about Ned, and it's also the first thing that Kathy 212 00:14:38,716 --> 00:14:40,996 Speaker 1: ever knew about him, going back to when they first 213 00:14:41,036 --> 00:14:45,156 Speaker 1: met as smalltown cops. If somebody was in a foot chase, 214 00:14:45,396 --> 00:14:48,396 Speaker 1: you know, you might you know, we got his ID, 215 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:49,996 Speaker 1: we got his car, you know, we can pick him 216 00:14:50,036 --> 00:14:52,276 Speaker 1: up tomorrow or whatever. Ned would chase that guy down 217 00:14:52,396 --> 00:14:56,156 Speaker 1: until you got him. She tells the story about Ned. 218 00:14:56,196 --> 00:14:59,396 Speaker 1: Before they even started dating. Ned knew where her family 219 00:14:59,396 --> 00:15:02,476 Speaker 1: would be celebrating Saint Patrick's Day, so he just showed 220 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:04,916 Speaker 1: up and blended right in as if he were some 221 00:15:05,036 --> 00:15:09,036 Speaker 1: long lost cousin, chatted up her dad got along famously 222 00:15:09,236 --> 00:15:12,316 Speaker 1: with everyone. Most people don't have that level of confidence 223 00:15:12,356 --> 00:15:16,236 Speaker 1: to be able to just walk in and just immediately 224 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:20,116 Speaker 1: become a part of the crowd. So cornering Toby in 225 00:15:20,196 --> 00:15:26,276 Speaker 1: a bathroom aggressive a bit reckless, classic Ned okay, back 226 00:15:26,316 --> 00:15:32,476 Speaker 1: to the biker bar, and I just lean up to 227 00:15:32,516 --> 00:15:36,356 Speaker 1: his ear and said Toby, FBI and he goes, fock 228 00:15:36,476 --> 00:15:40,596 Speaker 1: you and he starts to swing, and right then Ned's 229 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:44,516 Speaker 1: partner comes into the bathroom. We kind of overwhelmed them, 230 00:15:44,636 --> 00:15:48,916 Speaker 1: so we get him in cuffs. We're going through the 231 00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:51,436 Speaker 1: bar and everybody's starting to realize he's in handcuffs and 232 00:15:51,516 --> 00:15:55,116 Speaker 1: he's like they're superstar and people are pushing a Shelvin 233 00:15:55,116 --> 00:15:58,196 Speaker 1: and Ned says, he and his partner Frog March Toby 234 00:15:58,276 --> 00:16:01,356 Speaker 1: threw a bar of drunk bikers and out the front door. 235 00:16:01,636 --> 00:16:03,356 Speaker 1: I had Toby on the hood of the Bronco and 236 00:16:03,396 --> 00:16:07,396 Speaker 1: he's still wrestling around, but he's handcuffed behind himself, behind 237 00:16:07,436 --> 00:16:17,356 Speaker 1: his back. So we had told I actually can't be 238 00:16:17,436 --> 00:16:20,036 Speaker 1: sure if this story at the bar is one hundred 239 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: percent true. I talked to Ned's partner from that day, 240 00:16:23,516 --> 00:16:26,516 Speaker 1: and he didn't remember it. I talked to another biker 241 00:16:26,556 --> 00:16:29,276 Speaker 1: who knew Toby very well, and he remembered hearing some 242 00:16:29,516 --> 00:16:33,036 Speaker 1: version of this story at the time. Unfortunately, I can't 243 00:16:33,036 --> 00:16:35,876 Speaker 1: ask Toby himself since he died back in two thousand 244 00:16:35,876 --> 00:16:40,036 Speaker 1: and four. But I did track down Toby's son, who 245 00:16:40,076 --> 00:16:43,116 Speaker 1: gave me at least a better sense of who this 246 00:16:43,236 --> 00:16:50,036 Speaker 1: guy was. I remember right on the motorcycles with him, 247 00:16:50,036 --> 00:16:51,756 Speaker 1: with me on the back. He was just kind of 248 00:16:51,756 --> 00:16:54,916 Speaker 1: reckless and dangerous. I was screaming, holding on for dear life, right, 249 00:16:54,956 --> 00:16:58,116 Speaker 1: and he just thought it was funny. Today, Jesse Anderson 250 00:16:58,196 --> 00:17:01,236 Speaker 1: is an executive in the auto industry. Back when he 251 00:17:01,316 --> 00:17:03,476 Speaker 1: was a kid, he got out real close view of 252 00:17:03,516 --> 00:17:06,996 Speaker 1: all the madness and chaos that his father was in. Yeah. 253 00:17:07,036 --> 00:17:10,276 Speaker 1: I was afraid of my dad. Everybody's fraid. Yeah, so 254 00:17:10,436 --> 00:17:14,236 Speaker 1: yeah he was. He was reckless, which is what everyone said. 255 00:17:14,716 --> 00:17:17,396 Speaker 1: The friend of Toby's told me that Toby would cut 256 00:17:17,396 --> 00:17:20,756 Speaker 1: you or even shoot you without hesitation, and this gave 257 00:17:20,796 --> 00:17:23,876 Speaker 1: Toby's street cred in the criminal world. He was the 258 00:17:23,996 --> 00:17:29,116 Speaker 1: real deal, which appealed to Ned. When we come back, 259 00:17:29,516 --> 00:17:35,276 Speaker 1: Ned interrogates Toby the prisoner. Look at Toby here fucked. Okay, 260 00:17:35,436 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 1: you've been, You've done time in seven fucking federal pens. 261 00:17:39,836 --> 00:17:42,436 Speaker 1: This time you're going back for life for a long time. 262 00:17:43,876 --> 00:18:02,196 Speaker 1: So what do you want to do? Snitcher the rebolse 263 00:18:02,436 --> 00:18:13,156 Speaker 1: must die. Snitchbols must die. It's squeal all friends, so 264 00:18:13,556 --> 00:18:19,316 Speaker 1: they golf just should die. This is Toby Anderson singing 265 00:18:19,356 --> 00:18:22,836 Speaker 1: one of his hit songs with the legendary chorus Snitches 266 00:18:22,876 --> 00:18:27,476 Speaker 1: and rip Offs must die ned. Timman still remembers going 267 00:18:27,476 --> 00:18:31,596 Speaker 1: to question Toby. He brought him breakfast pancakes and he 268 00:18:31,716 --> 00:18:34,356 Speaker 1: ate him with his hands. He had syrup all over 269 00:18:34,396 --> 00:18:37,076 Speaker 1: his face and all over his fingers and probably hadn't 270 00:18:37,076 --> 00:18:39,716 Speaker 1: eaten in a day or so. You can see he 271 00:18:40,036 --> 00:18:42,756 Speaker 1: was just I mean, he's just like totally burned out 272 00:18:42,796 --> 00:18:44,676 Speaker 1: and weak. Now I didn't have all those buddies that 273 00:18:44,676 --> 00:18:48,596 Speaker 1: we're going to help him. Let's look at Toby. You're fucked. Okay, 274 00:18:48,756 --> 00:18:52,156 Speaker 1: you've been, You've done time in seven fucking federal pens. 275 00:18:53,196 --> 00:18:55,756 Speaker 1: This time you're going back for life for a long time, 276 00:18:57,196 --> 00:18:59,716 Speaker 1: So what do you want to do. We spent several 277 00:18:59,756 --> 00:19:02,316 Speaker 1: hours with him, you know, and finally says, well, there's 278 00:19:02,316 --> 00:19:05,156 Speaker 1: probably a couple of things I can do. So they 279 00:19:05,156 --> 00:19:08,636 Speaker 1: started working together. Toby knew better than anyone the dangers 280 00:19:08,636 --> 00:19:11,796 Speaker 1: of working for Ned, of becoming an informant for the FBI. 281 00:19:12,516 --> 00:19:14,996 Speaker 1: They had to be careful. Ned says. They spread a 282 00:19:15,076 --> 00:19:18,796 Speaker 1: rumor that the charges against Toby were dropped because no 283 00:19:18,836 --> 00:19:22,116 Speaker 1: one wanted to testify against him. This story would keep 284 00:19:22,156 --> 00:19:24,916 Speaker 1: any of his biker buddies from thinking that he'd flipped. 285 00:19:26,196 --> 00:19:29,636 Speaker 1: Even while cooperating, Toby tried to maintain his own kind 286 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:32,476 Speaker 1: of biker ethics. He would not write out friends or 287 00:19:32,476 --> 00:19:36,276 Speaker 1: members of his own gang, but he willingly betrayed his enemies. 288 00:19:36,716 --> 00:19:39,556 Speaker 1: So he and Ned would find a target, for example, 289 00:19:39,796 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 1: a drug house we'd set up undercover surveillance, sent him 290 00:19:43,236 --> 00:19:47,476 Speaker 1: in there, and you know, we had vans and different 291 00:19:47,516 --> 00:19:51,516 Speaker 1: stuff with high tech cameras and stuff that we're on. Periscopes, 292 00:19:52,356 --> 00:19:54,316 Speaker 1: just little pariscope comes out of the top of the van. 293 00:19:54,836 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: Oh the good old days when the drug dealers didn't 294 00:19:57,676 --> 00:20:01,916 Speaker 1: know what every TV writer knew. Unmarked vans with periscopes 295 00:20:02,276 --> 00:20:05,276 Speaker 1: meant trouble. So then we'd develop a raide plan and 296 00:20:05,316 --> 00:20:12,316 Speaker 1: get a search warton, kicking the doors all the way 297 00:20:12,396 --> 00:20:15,596 Speaker 1: up to the nineteen seventies, the Bureau wasn't really focused 298 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:18,356 Speaker 1: on drug suppliers. That had been the job of the 299 00:20:18,476 --> 00:20:22,756 Speaker 1: Drug Enforcement Agency, the d EA. Now, the DA did 300 00:20:22,796 --> 00:20:26,476 Speaker 1: have some big investigations, but they were mostly one off busts. 301 00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:29,556 Speaker 1: You know, they'd seize the drugs, lay them out on 302 00:20:29,556 --> 00:20:34,956 Speaker 1: the table, big photo op, busted, end of story. But 303 00:20:35,076 --> 00:20:38,076 Speaker 1: by the early eighties this approach wasn't cutting it anymore. 304 00:20:38,516 --> 00:20:42,076 Speaker 1: President Reagan's Attorney General empowered the FBI to get involved 305 00:20:42,076 --> 00:20:44,876 Speaker 1: in the drug wars. After all, the Bureau were the 306 00:20:44,916 --> 00:20:48,236 Speaker 1: ones taking down the mob. Something big had to be 307 00:20:48,236 --> 00:20:50,996 Speaker 1: behind all of this. The feeling was this couldn't be 308 00:20:50,996 --> 00:20:53,716 Speaker 1: just a bunch of local, mom and pop drug dealers. 309 00:20:54,116 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 1: Here's what the Attorney General, William French Smith said at 310 00:20:57,556 --> 00:21:01,076 Speaker 1: the time. Quote The popular notion that the syndicate or 311 00:21:01,116 --> 00:21:05,236 Speaker 1: traditional organized crime stays out of drugs is simply not true. 312 00:21:05,716 --> 00:21:09,396 Speaker 1: Many of the syndicates families have developed elaborate drug network works. 313 00:21:09,876 --> 00:21:13,156 Speaker 1: Virtually every one of them is involved in drugs in 314 00:21:13,156 --> 00:21:16,076 Speaker 1: one way or another. End quote. But that's not all. 315 00:21:16,436 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 1: Smith also told Americans precisely who was distributing all the 316 00:21:20,676 --> 00:21:25,076 Speaker 1: drugs for the syndicates. Quote. Over the past decade, some 317 00:21:25,436 --> 00:21:29,636 Speaker 1: eight hundred outlaw motorcycle gangs have developed around the country 318 00:21:29,716 --> 00:21:33,956 Speaker 1: and in foreign countries, and drugs represent their primary source 319 00:21:33,996 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 1: of revenue. The strategies of the Attorney General and Ned 320 00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:43,996 Speaker 1: Timmins had what you might call synergy. As Ned saw it, 321 00:21:44,356 --> 00:21:48,316 Speaker 1: Toby was his way in and up the ladder. So 322 00:21:48,476 --> 00:21:51,796 Speaker 1: the FBI came up with a plan Ned would go 323 00:21:51,876 --> 00:22:01,676 Speaker 1: undercover and become a biker. Ned's wife, Kathy, remembers how 324 00:22:01,756 --> 00:22:05,716 Speaker 1: quickly things changed. I didn't like that. He of course 325 00:22:05,756 --> 00:22:08,316 Speaker 1: started growing his hair out and he had a Fu 326 00:22:08,396 --> 00:22:11,836 Speaker 1: Manchu stash, and when we would go out, we'd always 327 00:22:11,956 --> 00:22:14,076 Speaker 1: people look at us and we'd get seated like way 328 00:22:14,076 --> 00:22:16,676 Speaker 1: at the back of a restaurant, you know, like like 329 00:22:16,796 --> 00:22:22,756 Speaker 1: we were creepy. The mustache was just the beginning. Ned 330 00:22:22,876 --> 00:22:25,516 Speaker 1: knew he needed to up his skills as a biker, so, 331 00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:29,156 Speaker 1: like any good FBI agent, he went to school the 332 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:33,316 Speaker 1: Ontario Provincial Police Motorcycle School. Ned says he learned to 333 00:22:33,396 --> 00:22:36,516 Speaker 1: ride his bike upstairs and lay the bike down at 334 00:22:36,596 --> 00:22:39,836 Speaker 1: high speeds. I rode a bike a lot for the FBI, 335 00:22:41,156 --> 00:22:45,236 Speaker 1: and you're very vulnerable and after you've been to school, 336 00:22:45,276 --> 00:22:51,316 Speaker 1: you realize just how dangerous a motorcycle is. After graduation, 337 00:22:51,756 --> 00:22:55,276 Speaker 1: Ned went back to Detroit. He created a new persona 338 00:22:55,396 --> 00:23:04,276 Speaker 1: and carefully chose a new name, Ed Thomas, because you 339 00:23:04,316 --> 00:23:07,756 Speaker 1: wanted something that was close to Ned. A couple of 340 00:23:07,796 --> 00:23:10,636 Speaker 1: times I was undercovered an airport and old colleagues, buddies, 341 00:23:10,876 --> 00:23:14,676 Speaker 1: Tarryann and Tolman, they're going, hey, Ned, and it's an 342 00:23:14,676 --> 00:23:18,916 Speaker 1: awkward situation if you're with a bunch of bikers, Ed Thomas. 343 00:23:18,916 --> 00:23:21,596 Speaker 1: It was close enough that you can stumble through it. 344 00:23:22,556 --> 00:23:27,356 Speaker 1: Ed Thomas a badass biker with money and connections. If 345 00:23:27,356 --> 00:23:30,756 Speaker 1: you wanted the chemicals to make meth, Ed Thomas is 346 00:23:30,796 --> 00:23:35,356 Speaker 1: your guy, and the ruse worked. Ed helped the FBI 347 00:23:35,476 --> 00:23:38,876 Speaker 1: take down other outlaw bikers on at least one occasion. 348 00:23:39,156 --> 00:23:41,596 Speaker 1: Ned told me that they cuffed him as well at 349 00:23:41,596 --> 00:23:44,236 Speaker 1: the arrest, made sure it look like he really was 350 00:23:44,316 --> 00:23:48,156 Speaker 1: a criminal. The FBI wanted to protect his cover because 351 00:23:48,236 --> 00:23:51,996 Speaker 1: Ned he was really good at this. You know who 352 00:23:52,076 --> 00:23:56,876 Speaker 1: was not so good at this whole undercover thing. Toby, 353 00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:03,836 Speaker 1: Ned's wingman. Toby was still living the biker life, and 354 00:24:03,956 --> 00:24:09,276 Speaker 1: increasingly there were problems. Like the time that Toby was 355 00:24:09,316 --> 00:24:12,596 Speaker 1: out at a bar and watching another band play. The 356 00:24:12,716 --> 00:24:16,116 Speaker 1: lead singer was playing this fancy and very pricy less 357 00:24:16,196 --> 00:24:21,076 Speaker 1: Ball electric guitar, and Toby liked it a lot. What 358 00:24:21,196 --> 00:24:23,996 Speaker 1: happened next is kind of a legend. I heard it 359 00:24:24,036 --> 00:24:26,556 Speaker 1: from a few different people, including another biker who was 360 00:24:26,636 --> 00:24:29,716 Speaker 1: there that night at the bar, So out of nowhere, 361 00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:34,076 Speaker 1: Toby screamed FBI at the top of his lungs, whipped 362 00:24:34,076 --> 00:24:38,236 Speaker 1: out his gun and started shooting. He snatched the guitar 363 00:24:38,476 --> 00:24:41,876 Speaker 1: and bolts out of the bar like he deputized himself 364 00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:44,436 Speaker 1: as an FBI agent or something, and then totally went 365 00:24:44,516 --> 00:24:47,956 Speaker 1: rogue and for a while he got away with it. 366 00:24:48,476 --> 00:24:51,996 Speaker 1: Toby now has this sweet Les Paul electric guitar, and 367 00:24:52,156 --> 00:24:54,956 Speaker 1: right away he started touring his local haunts with it. 368 00:24:55,316 --> 00:24:59,316 Speaker 1: Not a worry in the world because that's Toby, and 369 00:24:59,476 --> 00:25:02,316 Speaker 1: because it's Toby, that's not the end of the story. 370 00:25:02,836 --> 00:25:06,436 Speaker 1: A few weeks later, Toby's performing up on stage and 371 00:25:06,996 --> 00:25:10,356 Speaker 1: he gets shot. We don't know who did it for sure, 372 00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:12,996 Speaker 1: but everyone I spoke to said it had to be 373 00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:15,436 Speaker 1: the guy he robbed and stole the guitar from a 374 00:25:15,436 --> 00:25:19,316 Speaker 1: few weeks earlier. So Toby he's shot and bleeding out 375 00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:24,716 Speaker 1: on stage across town. HiT's bedtime at dad's house when 376 00:25:24,956 --> 00:25:30,876 Speaker 1: the phone rings and I get a call again, like 377 00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,356 Speaker 1: ten o'clock at night, So you'd better get down to 378 00:25:33,396 --> 00:25:39,956 Speaker 1: this bar. Toby's been shot, and so I raced down. 379 00:25:39,996 --> 00:25:42,036 Speaker 1: It's like a forty five minute drive. He's still laying 380 00:25:42,076 --> 00:25:44,916 Speaker 1: on the floor in the bar shot. I get there 381 00:25:44,916 --> 00:25:46,836 Speaker 1: and say, look at you gotta go to the fucking hospital. 382 00:25:47,356 --> 00:25:53,396 Speaker 1: It's okay, I'm going of if you'd go with me. Well, 383 00:25:53,436 --> 00:25:55,476 Speaker 1: I got a call from somebody in my family to 384 00:25:55,716 --> 00:25:57,876 Speaker 1: say that my dad has been shot, and that was 385 00:25:58,236 --> 00:26:03,116 Speaker 1: that it was pretty severe. That's Jesse Anderson again, Toby's son, 386 00:26:03,756 --> 00:26:06,596 Speaker 1: and that day, the day his dad got shot, it's 387 00:26:06,636 --> 00:26:12,476 Speaker 1: always stayed with him. On the way to the hospital, 388 00:26:12,636 --> 00:26:16,476 Speaker 1: they got stopped by a train and he almost bled 389 00:26:16,516 --> 00:26:18,916 Speaker 1: out in the ambulance because the train was so long. 390 00:26:18,956 --> 00:26:22,076 Speaker 1: And at this time I now think, I think I'm 391 00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:26,796 Speaker 1: about twelve years old. But again, for me to hear 392 00:26:26,876 --> 00:26:30,196 Speaker 1: that my dad was shot, it's like going to the store. 393 00:26:30,356 --> 00:26:34,916 Speaker 1: I mean, it's the stuff happened all the time. Something 394 00:26:34,996 --> 00:26:40,676 Speaker 1: like this happened all the time. Toby recovered from being 395 00:26:40,716 --> 00:26:44,316 Speaker 1: shot and just kind of carried on. As crazy as 396 00:26:44,356 --> 00:26:48,076 Speaker 1: that sounds, this was normal life for the Anderson household. 397 00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:51,356 Speaker 1: In fact, hearing Jesse talked about his dad like this, 398 00:26:51,756 --> 00:26:54,476 Speaker 1: it helped me understand what life was like in Toby's world. 399 00:26:55,036 --> 00:26:58,316 Speaker 1: Mayhem just seemed to follow this guy everywhere. Everything was 400 00:26:58,396 --> 00:27:01,276 Speaker 1: topsy turvy. Even jumping in the car to pick up 401 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:05,556 Speaker 1: a pizza became an event. All I remember is pulling 402 00:27:05,636 --> 00:27:09,116 Speaker 1: up to a stoplight and up in front of us 403 00:27:09,236 --> 00:27:13,916 Speaker 1: is a guy mugging another guy, and my dad's like, well, 404 00:27:13,956 --> 00:27:16,396 Speaker 1: I'm not going to stand for this, puts the car 405 00:27:16,396 --> 00:27:19,436 Speaker 1: in park, sets his beer up on top of the roof, 406 00:27:20,316 --> 00:27:23,876 Speaker 1: gets out, beats the living crap out of the guy 407 00:27:23,916 --> 00:27:27,196 Speaker 1: who was mugging the other one, stole all the money 408 00:27:27,196 --> 00:27:31,196 Speaker 1: that he had, split it with the other guy, got 409 00:27:31,236 --> 00:27:34,836 Speaker 1: back in the car with me, grabbed his beer, and 410 00:27:34,996 --> 00:27:37,956 Speaker 1: just drived on. And you know, Son, looks like we've 411 00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:39,796 Speaker 1: got some dinner money or something like that, and just 412 00:27:40,276 --> 00:27:44,316 Speaker 1: no big deal. Didn't say another word. That's my dad, 413 00:27:45,556 --> 00:27:50,596 Speaker 1: a little vigilante justice. That was a good night. But 414 00:27:51,196 --> 00:27:54,316 Speaker 1: it could get darker with Toby, a whole lot darker. 415 00:27:55,396 --> 00:27:59,596 Speaker 1: Let me come back, ned wades deeper did Toby's world. 416 00:28:18,916 --> 00:28:24,476 Speaker 1: He had that dark look you know what I'm talking about, Yeah, 417 00:28:24,516 --> 00:28:26,876 Speaker 1: that crazy look in your eyes that you think this 418 00:28:27,076 --> 00:28:31,916 Speaker 1: guy is a psychotic person. I better not push his button. 419 00:28:33,516 --> 00:28:36,596 Speaker 1: Ned's wife, Kathy met Toby on a number of occasions. 420 00:28:37,196 --> 00:28:40,596 Speaker 1: I remember telling Ned that he resembled to me Charles Manson, 421 00:28:41,076 --> 00:28:43,876 Speaker 1: and Kathy knew the telltale signs of a dangerous guy 422 00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:47,836 Speaker 1: at the FBI. She works street gangs in Flint, Michigan. 423 00:28:48,516 --> 00:28:52,476 Speaker 1: Toby didn't aspire to anything other than the moment, when 424 00:28:52,516 --> 00:28:56,916 Speaker 1: people only aspire to you know, how am I going 425 00:28:56,956 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 1: to get out of here in the next fifteen minutes? 426 00:29:00,236 --> 00:29:02,916 Speaker 1: And they don't care if they don't think consequence, They 427 00:29:02,916 --> 00:29:05,476 Speaker 1: don't think of any of that. Gang kids are like that. 428 00:29:06,076 --> 00:29:09,756 Speaker 1: They just do in the moment what they have to do, 429 00:29:10,716 --> 00:29:15,156 Speaker 1: and if it means killing you, they'll think about that later. 430 00:29:17,396 --> 00:29:20,196 Speaker 1: So why did Ned just walk away from him, let 431 00:29:20,276 --> 00:29:24,436 Speaker 1: him go back to prison, move on? Because Toby was, yeah, 432 00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:27,956 Speaker 1: definitely dangerous, but also kind of like a dead end. 433 00:29:28,356 --> 00:29:30,836 Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't some kind of kingpin or even 434 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:34,676 Speaker 1: a trusted lieutenant. He was just a violent and unpredictable guy. 435 00:29:35,596 --> 00:29:39,596 Speaker 1: But Ned, he just had a hunch he felt that 436 00:29:39,636 --> 00:29:44,156 Speaker 1: by slipping deeper and deeper into Toby's world, somewhere along 437 00:29:44,156 --> 00:29:47,676 Speaker 1: the way there'd be a payoff. And because he was 438 00:29:47,716 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 1: spending so much time with bikers, Ned kept hearing chatter 439 00:29:51,916 --> 00:29:57,436 Speaker 1: well ahead sources up in northern Michigan bikers, and they 440 00:29:57,436 --> 00:30:01,076 Speaker 1: would talk about, Okay, there's a shipman in or whatever. 441 00:30:01,316 --> 00:30:04,396 Speaker 1: The bikers would get their supply of weed when these 442 00:30:04,396 --> 00:30:06,876 Speaker 1: big shipments would come in, you know, which is fifty 443 00:30:06,876 --> 00:30:09,476 Speaker 1: thousand pounds, one hundred thousand pounds or whatever into the 444 00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:14,316 Speaker 1: Detroit warehouse. If such a warehouse really existed. It was 445 00:30:14,356 --> 00:30:18,276 Speaker 1: the El Dorado of drug houses and confirmed what the 446 00:30:18,276 --> 00:30:22,916 Speaker 1: Attorney General had said that elaborate drug networks lay behind 447 00:30:22,956 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 1: all the small drug busts that have been happening. So 448 00:30:26,636 --> 00:30:29,636 Speaker 1: Ned goes and tells his bosses, there's this huge deal 449 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:34,236 Speaker 1: out there and involved shrimp boats and barges and airplanes. 450 00:30:34,396 --> 00:30:36,756 Speaker 1: And so I told my bosses about it, you know, 451 00:30:36,756 --> 00:30:38,996 Speaker 1: and they kind of said, yeah, you know, you know, right, 452 00:30:39,156 --> 00:30:42,516 Speaker 1: Tim is when he's smoking. Around the same time, Ned 453 00:30:42,516 --> 00:30:45,836 Speaker 1: says he arrested another biker and tried to flip him, 454 00:30:45,956 --> 00:30:48,716 Speaker 1: just like he'd done with Toby, only it didn't work. 455 00:30:49,076 --> 00:30:52,596 Speaker 1: In fact, during the arrest, the guy just taunted Ned. 456 00:30:53,636 --> 00:30:56,916 Speaker 1: He says, well, he says, you're missing the boat on 457 00:30:56,916 --> 00:30:59,476 Speaker 1: one of the biggest fucking deals going out there. You 458 00:30:59,476 --> 00:31:01,556 Speaker 1: don't even know what's under your own nose. But he 459 00:31:02,316 --> 00:31:06,916 Speaker 1: alluded to this massive deal where there's hundreds of thousands 460 00:31:06,956 --> 00:31:09,396 Speaker 1: of pounds of weed and coke coming in and then 461 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:12,316 Speaker 1: basically said fuck you. And that was any wasn't going 462 00:31:12,356 --> 00:31:16,876 Speaker 1: to cooperating for Ned. This intel was just too enticing. 463 00:31:17,316 --> 00:31:20,636 Speaker 1: His bosses might have been skeptical, but Ned stuck with it, 464 00:31:21,116 --> 00:31:24,236 Speaker 1: kept hanging with Toby. It's just I knew he was 465 00:31:24,276 --> 00:31:28,236 Speaker 1: out with them all the time. I just until I 466 00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:31,556 Speaker 1: would hear from him. I would many many times just 467 00:31:31,636 --> 00:31:35,556 Speaker 1: sit there and think, oh my god, something's happened, and 468 00:31:35,596 --> 00:31:37,716 Speaker 1: then he'd call, and then I'd be relieved, and then 469 00:31:37,756 --> 00:31:42,396 Speaker 1: I'd be mad because because of all distress and the worry, 470 00:31:42,836 --> 00:31:46,436 Speaker 1: and it wasn't just Ned's safety that concerned her. Will 471 00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:48,396 Speaker 1: you hang around Matt Long with a bunch of bad 472 00:31:48,396 --> 00:31:52,196 Speaker 1: guys and fitting in with them, your behavior is going 473 00:31:52,236 --> 00:31:59,756 Speaker 1: to change, and your your own personal bars, you know 474 00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 1: where you draw the line changes. This would be the first, 475 00:32:05,356 --> 00:32:07,956 Speaker 1: but not the last time that Cathy was right to 476 00:32:07,996 --> 00:32:11,196 Speaker 1: worry about her husband and where he was drawing the line, 477 00:32:11,916 --> 00:32:17,876 Speaker 1: especially when it came to Toby. You know, I was 478 00:32:17,916 --> 00:32:21,076 Speaker 1: supposed to meet him or whatever. And I went down 479 00:32:21,116 --> 00:32:23,756 Speaker 1: to the house on my motorcycle and pulled up in 480 00:32:23,756 --> 00:32:27,356 Speaker 1: the yard and put down the kickstand and walked in 481 00:32:27,476 --> 00:32:29,676 Speaker 1: and there's dead guy laying there in a pool of blood. 482 00:32:30,436 --> 00:32:34,116 Speaker 1: And I go, Toby, what the fuck? And he goes, Bros. 483 00:32:34,316 --> 00:32:37,516 Speaker 1: Masked man came through the door, shot this guy. I 484 00:32:37,556 --> 00:32:41,076 Speaker 1: guess he didn't like him and ran. That's all I know. 485 00:32:43,556 --> 00:32:48,236 Speaker 1: A masked man. Come on. Really, this was Toby's story. 486 00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:52,396 Speaker 1: A strange guy wearing a mask breaks into his apartment, 487 00:32:52,596 --> 00:32:55,516 Speaker 1: shoots this guy who's currently lying on the floor, and 488 00:32:55,636 --> 00:33:00,036 Speaker 1: then runs away, leaving Toby to take the rap. I mean, 489 00:33:00,276 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 1: this has got to be the homicidal equivalent of the 490 00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:07,516 Speaker 1: dog ate my homework. I later asked Toby's son about it, 491 00:33:07,876 --> 00:33:10,156 Speaker 1: whether his dad was the kind of person who was 492 00:33:10,596 --> 00:33:14,636 Speaker 1: capable of committing murder. It pains me to say it, 493 00:33:15,316 --> 00:33:19,036 Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't blink when I when I say, 494 00:33:19,196 --> 00:33:21,036 Speaker 1: you know, could he have done it? Did he do it? 495 00:33:21,076 --> 00:33:23,836 Speaker 1: Has he done it? I'm sure the answers ysked all 496 00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:26,956 Speaker 1: of them, and I don't I don't think twice about it. 497 00:33:28,156 --> 00:33:30,756 Speaker 1: Ned didn't tell Kathy about this whole episode with the 498 00:33:30,796 --> 00:33:34,556 Speaker 1: masked man and the dead body. Oddly enough, he seemed 499 00:33:34,556 --> 00:33:40,276 Speaker 1: to take the whole episode in stride. So in a way, 500 00:33:40,316 --> 00:33:41,996 Speaker 1: if you're one hundred percent certain it was Toby to 501 00:33:42,076 --> 00:33:44,196 Speaker 1: kill him, it was just a technicality that you weren't 502 00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:47,356 Speaker 1: there to witness it. I'm not a witness. I'm not 503 00:33:47,396 --> 00:33:53,076 Speaker 1: in charge of collecting evidence. FBI doesn't investigate homicides. It 504 00:33:53,116 --> 00:33:57,196 Speaker 1: wasn't my job to investigate a homicide. Just don't kill 505 00:33:57,236 --> 00:34:00,436 Speaker 1: somebody in front of me. That's it. Yeah, pretty much. 506 00:34:02,156 --> 00:34:05,396 Speaker 1: Ned says that he did call the police, and so 507 00:34:05,476 --> 00:34:08,196 Speaker 1: when De Tray police came and told him the same story, 508 00:34:08,236 --> 00:34:10,396 Speaker 1: and they didn't really give a shit. You know, it's 509 00:34:10,396 --> 00:34:14,916 Speaker 1: just some shit head biker. Ned now had his line 510 00:34:15,036 --> 00:34:18,916 Speaker 1: in the sand. The trick was keeping Toby on this 511 00:34:18,956 --> 00:34:23,316 Speaker 1: side of it, which you don't make progress. And unless 512 00:34:23,316 --> 00:34:29,516 Speaker 1: you're dealing with sociopathic, homicidal crazy people, that's who are 513 00:34:29,556 --> 00:34:36,596 Speaker 1: in the inner circle of drugs, violence and whatever. So 514 00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:39,396 Speaker 1: this is just part of the deal. It's part of 515 00:34:39,396 --> 00:34:46,876 Speaker 1: the deal. Yeah, so what are you saying to him 516 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:52,916 Speaker 1: in that situation? You know, I just thought him would 517 00:34:52,956 --> 00:34:56,956 Speaker 1: be advantageous not to continue to have bodies laying around 518 00:34:57,036 --> 00:35:00,076 Speaker 1: in your house or in your yard, And I said, 519 00:35:00,196 --> 00:35:10,036 Speaker 1: tell the fucking mass man to stay away. After listening 520 00:35:10,036 --> 00:35:12,716 Speaker 1: to Ned's story, you know, in the shadow of his 521 00:35:12,756 --> 00:35:16,196 Speaker 1: ten foot stuff bare, I still just didn't know what 522 00:35:16,236 --> 00:35:18,996 Speaker 1: to make of it. When I got home, I reread 523 00:35:19,036 --> 00:35:23,396 Speaker 1: his novel. Ned and his ghostwriter were giving me everything 524 00:35:23,436 --> 00:35:26,476 Speaker 1: they thought I wanted, with all the film noir settings 525 00:35:26,476 --> 00:35:30,516 Speaker 1: and Raymond Chandler dialogue. In the novel, Toby's like that 526 00:35:30,516 --> 00:35:33,676 Speaker 1: two dimensional villain depicted on a target at a shooting range, 527 00:35:33,916 --> 00:35:37,436 Speaker 1: you know, lone bad guy with a gun drawn. But 528 00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 1: what struck me most was what was missing from the novel. 529 00:35:41,716 --> 00:35:44,756 Speaker 1: There's no mention of Jesse the Sun, or what it's 530 00:35:44,756 --> 00:35:48,196 Speaker 1: like to grow up with Toby as your dad. And 531 00:35:48,396 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 1: Ned's wife and colleague, Kathy, she doesn't even make a 532 00:35:51,756 --> 00:35:55,556 Speaker 1: single appearance in the novel. I guess her Midwestern accent 533 00:35:55,636 --> 00:35:58,156 Speaker 1: and by the book thinking didn't fit into the hard 534 00:35:58,196 --> 00:36:02,636 Speaker 1: boiled narrative. It became clear to me that the truth, 535 00:36:03,196 --> 00:36:07,756 Speaker 1: if I could extract. It was way better. But this 536 00:36:07,836 --> 00:36:10,796 Speaker 1: wasn't going to be easy. Honestly, I didn't know if 537 00:36:10,836 --> 00:36:13,876 Speaker 1: I could fully trust all of Ned's memories. Part of 538 00:36:13,876 --> 00:36:17,116 Speaker 1: the problem was time. All of this happened thirty five 539 00:36:17,236 --> 00:36:20,956 Speaker 1: years ago. I mean, memories fade and then those same 540 00:36:20,996 --> 00:36:24,516 Speaker 1: memories had been taken off the shelf and reworked into fiction. 541 00:36:25,596 --> 00:36:28,076 Speaker 1: But I was all in, and so for the last 542 00:36:28,116 --> 00:36:30,196 Speaker 1: year and a half, I've been trying to put all 543 00:36:30,196 --> 00:36:34,316 Speaker 1: the pieces together. I've been to dive bars and horse farms, 544 00:36:34,356 --> 00:36:37,916 Speaker 1: to back water swamps and pirate museums. I've poured through 545 00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:41,516 Speaker 1: FBI reports in court transcripts. The story is taking me 546 00:36:41,516 --> 00:36:46,436 Speaker 1: to North Carolina, Maryland, Florida, Michigan, Hawaii, and the Cayman Islands. 547 00:36:47,036 --> 00:36:49,516 Speaker 1: I've talked to agents from the FBI, the d e A, 548 00:36:49,676 --> 00:36:53,916 Speaker 1: and u S, Customs, to US attorneys, pilots, ex girl friends, 549 00:36:53,996 --> 00:36:58,196 Speaker 1: Detroit felons, and a bunch of big time drug smugglers, 550 00:36:59,036 --> 00:37:01,996 Speaker 1: and all of this to find out whether a rookie 551 00:37:02,036 --> 00:37:04,996 Speaker 1: agent from Detroit could really make a random bust in 552 00:37:05,036 --> 00:37:08,156 Speaker 1: a biker bar one night and set off a cascade 553 00:37:08,156 --> 00:37:12,396 Speaker 1: of events. The discovery of a gigantic drug warehouse, the 554 00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:16,876 Speaker 1: collapse of a nationwide smuggling ring, a war in Central America, 555 00:37:17,436 --> 00:37:38,276 Speaker 1: and the overthrow of a brutal dictator. Next time a 556 00:37:38,516 --> 00:37:41,436 Speaker 1: deep cover, you know, you don't have to choose that path. 557 00:37:41,556 --> 00:37:44,076 Speaker 1: You don't have to choose to work a case in 558 00:37:44,156 --> 00:37:47,676 Speaker 1: that way. You don't have to choose to go deep cover, 559 00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:51,076 Speaker 1: you know. But I know for him, he felt like 560 00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:54,316 Speaker 1: it was just spinning into the next, into the next, 561 00:37:54,316 --> 00:37:57,276 Speaker 1: into the next, and he told me that he felt 562 00:37:57,356 --> 00:37:59,196 Speaker 1: like he didn't know how he was ever going to 563 00:37:59,276 --> 00:38:15,436 Speaker 1: get out of it. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob 564 00:38:15,476 --> 00:38:19,436 Speaker 1: Smith and edited by Karen Shakerge. Our story editor is 565 00:38:19,516 --> 00:38:23,236 Speaker 1: Jack Hitt. Original music and our theme was composed by 566 00:38:23,276 --> 00:38:27,396 Speaker 1: Louise Gera and Flawn Williams is our engineer. Fact checking 567 00:38:27,476 --> 00:38:32,596 Speaker 1: by Amy Gaines. Mia Lobell is Pushkin's executive producer. Ned's 568 00:38:32,636 --> 00:38:37,076 Speaker 1: novel is read by Walton Goggins. Special thanks to Julia Barton, 569 00:38:37,396 --> 00:38:42,796 Speaker 1: Heather Fain, Carl mcgliori, Leta Mullad, Maya Caning, Eric Sandler, 570 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:47,836 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Kadija Holland, Zoe Gwenn and Jacob Weissberg at 571 00:38:47,836 --> 00:38:52,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. Special thanks also to Jeff Singer at Stowaway Entertainment. 572 00:38:53,396 --> 00:38:54,396 Speaker 1: I'm Jake albern