Speaker 1: Mmm, Hello, and welcome once again to Behind the Bastards,
Speaker 1: the show where we tell you everything you don't know
Speaker 1: about the very worst people in all history. I'm Robert Evans,
Speaker 1: our host, and my guest this week is Dave Ross,
Speaker 1: co host of Suicide Friends. No, damn it, that's okay, man,
Speaker 1: It's Suicide Buddies, Suicide Buddy, Suicide Friends. It's funny. That
Speaker 1: sounds like a kid's show. I keep yeah, okay, Off Mike, Oh,
Speaker 1: this is not gonna go. I mean it could, this
Speaker 1: is great. You should. I don't know, man, I like
Speaker 1: my favorite thing in the world is mistakes. It's uh,
Speaker 1: that's where all of my comedy comes from, my own mistakes.
Speaker 1: And it's especially going because we're recording this immediately after
Speaker 1: recording part one, so I haven't even had the excuse
Speaker 1: of a couple of days way time to get this wrong.
Speaker 1: Now we've been hanging out yeah and you got yeah,
Speaker 1: you got my name wrong and a terrible person. And
Speaker 1: at one point, Off Mike, you referred to the podcast
Speaker 1: as suicide Club, and I just love that because that
Speaker 1: really sounds like we're gonna die on the podcast. Suicide
Speaker 1: Buddies does too. It does I'm still it's my podcast,
Speaker 1: and I'm still not entirely sold on the name, uh
Speaker 1: suicide Buddies. We're trying to we're trying to imply that
Speaker 1: it's a fun suicide podcast, because it is Buddies. It is.
Speaker 1: It's like we talk about a different person in history
Speaker 1: every week who killed themselves. Oh that's a great idea. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fun, and but we're two comics, so we get real,
Speaker 1: real ridiculous with sure. Yeah, well let's get ridiculous with
Speaker 1: Paul man Afford again. Yeah. Yeah. If you're if you're
Speaker 1: just tuning into this and you didn't hear part one,
Speaker 1: I would recommend listening to part one of our Paul
Speaker 1: man Afford episode. We talked about how he changed lobbying
Speaker 1: from a thing that people didn't really do into a
Speaker 1: thing that there's tens of thousands of lobbyists now, and
Speaker 1: it's influences or democracy at every level. A lot of
Speaker 1: that's Paul Manafort's doing. He's the guy who wrought lobbying
Speaker 1: for dictatorships to the United States back into vogue. Um,
Speaker 1: and we had just yeah, you didn't even invent lobbying.
Speaker 1: He just made it bad. He just made it worse
Speaker 1: and bigger. Yeah, and he he fucked our whole democracy
Speaker 1: by doing it. Um, but at the point of our
Speaker 1: story that we're at, uh, he is fucking Ukraine's democracy.
Speaker 1: He started working with a guy named Victor Yanukovich and
Speaker 1: a Russian billionaire named Oleg Deripashka, both of whom his
Speaker 1: names I pronounced correctly. I think while getting your name
Speaker 1: Dave wrong just a minute ago, because I I am
Speaker 1: the real bastard behind the show. You are truly are
Speaker 1: my Paul Manifort. Everyone someone's Paul Manifort. That's probably true.
Speaker 1: Paul Manafort thinks about that when he needs to feel
Speaker 1: better about himself. I wonder that's that is probably not
Speaker 1: that inaccurate. Look, other people are bad too, Sherry or whatever,
Speaker 1: his wife. So what if I've helped a couple of
Speaker 1: civil wars last longer? Yeah, man, it's funny to think
Speaker 1: that you're right. No matter who you are, there's someone
Speaker 1: out there who's like, a, yeah, Dan Ross, I'm Dan Ross.
Speaker 1: Now he said it off Mike, it was yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: the one bringing it back up. I'm Paul Manaford. No,
Speaker 1: but I want people to know how terrible I am.
Speaker 1: It's important. I want people to know how terrible I am. Well,
Speaker 1: this is a great show to be on. Then we
Speaker 1: should start a podcast called the Paul Manaforts, The Paul's Maniford.
Speaker 1: You're right, No, that was unfair of me. I don't
Speaker 1: want to be unfair to Paul Manford. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: Paul Manaford has you know, advised Victor Yunukovich on what
Speaker 1: he needs to do in order to win the presidency
Speaker 1: because he lost back in two thousand five. He hasn't
Speaker 1: changed his hair, has n't getting new suits. It changes
Speaker 1: the way his his party starts, you know, agitating and
Speaker 1: basically trying to get him to use US style political
Speaker 1: tactics to win election Ukraine. And this strategy works Yunukovich's
Speaker 1: party over the next couple of years, when's a bunch
Speaker 1: of seats in parliament, and in two thousand and ten
Speaker 1: Ukovich was finally elected president. His opponent was arrested a
Speaker 1: year later, and you Nukovich sort of went full dictator,
Speaker 1: buying himself an enormous palace with a floating restaurant on
Speaker 1: a private lake and turning the Federal riot police the
Speaker 1: Barkut into an instrument for enforcing his will. He did
Speaker 1: that like like a fucking finger snap fast, like just instantly, dictator.
Speaker 1: It's it's almost almost laudable how quickly he's like, all right,
Speaker 1: gonna jail my opponent and start building a palace. Instantly.
Speaker 1: Dictator sounds a lot like the phrase suddenly Susan. Yes,
Speaker 1: which that was a TV show, right it was. It
Speaker 1: was a corny I think t g I F said,
Speaker 1: come well, someone should reboot it and Susan should be
Speaker 1: a Eastern European dictator. Yea, yeah, putting people on the
Speaker 1: rack but tawning their feet. Yeah yeah, but with a
Speaker 1: laugh track. With a laugh track of course. Yes, people
Speaker 1: know the torture scenes are funny as opposed to horrifying. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know. This went great for Paul obviously, the fact
Speaker 1: that he had actually successfully gotten a dictator into our
Speaker 1: uh so he just basically started writing down blank checks
Speaker 1: for the sums of money he needed to continue to
Speaker 1: help Yanukovich out. Yanukovich would send his chief of staff
Speaker 1: out to shake down oligarchs for cash, and they always
Speaker 1: paid because Manafort had given them control of the entire country.
Speaker 1: So he's getting millions of dollars these oligarchs are getting
Speaker 1: to do whatever they want without human rights concerns, and
Speaker 1: Victor Yanukovich is getting to move his country closer to
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin's Russia, even though most people in the country
Speaker 1: don't want that. So it's it's working out for everybody.
Speaker 1: For no one gets hurt in the process at all,
Speaker 1: for sure, No, it's wonderful and it seems like it's
Speaker 1: gonna last perfectly forever. Uh Maniford also continue to work
Speaker 1: with Oleg Deripashka during this period. Now, Oleg had amassed
Speaker 1: and a preposterous fortune in Russia's bloody aluminum Wars, which
Speaker 1: caused more death than a lot of actual wars. Um
Speaker 1: So when the Soviet Union fell right on the Soviet Union,
Speaker 1: all of these different industries and stuff are owned by
Speaker 1: the states, so they're own collectively by all the people.
Speaker 1: So when the Soviet Union stops being a thing, the
Speaker 1: thing that they land on essentially is giving all the
Speaker 1: people vouchers for a tiny percentage of control of these
Speaker 1: various industries, the gas industry, these aluminum companies, whatever. Everybody
Speaker 1: gets a chunk of that. And it seemed like the
Speaker 1: right way to at the time, sort of nationalize the
Speaker 1: economy and benefit all the people. But what happens in
Speaker 1: practices that a small number of enterprising billionaires basically buy
Speaker 1: up all of the these people for like beer money,
Speaker 1: and then wind up amassing enormous fortunes and we'll run
Speaker 1: in the conflict money oleg is considered. Yeah, they would
Speaker 1: like bribe people with with yeah, like enough money to
Speaker 1: get drunk for a night, for shares and games. They're
Speaker 1: exactly and it was just a piece of paper. I
Speaker 1: don't give a ship. And then some of these guys
Speaker 1: wind up being a few of the richest people in
Speaker 1: the world who apparently meddled in our election. But after
Speaker 1: hearing about what Manafort has been doing anyway, um so yeah,
Speaker 1: Derri Poshka was one of the bloodiest of the oligarchs
Speaker 1: of this period. Um and in two thousands, Evan he
Speaker 1: was worth well over twenty billion dollars. And that's the
Speaker 1: year that he promised Paul Manafort a hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: to help him start an investment fund called Pericles. Now,
Speaker 1: Manafort took at least nineteen million dollars of Derri Poshka's
Speaker 1: money and bought maybe nothing with it, So he was
Speaker 1: supposed to be using this money to purchase a telecom
Speaker 1: firm for this investment company, because he was hoping the
Speaker 1: firm would you know, appreciate in value. That price tag
Speaker 1: included seven point three five million and management fees for
Speaker 1: Paul um. But right after the purchase, the global economy
Speaker 1: collapsed and Derri Poshka was suddenly worth a whole lot
Speaker 1: less than he had been um So dry Poshka asks
Speaker 1: for his money back, and it turns out that Paul
Speaker 1: Manafort doesn't have the money and also didn't buy the
Speaker 1: firm that he said he bought, so they can't even
Speaker 1: sell the firm. Like it. It seems like he just
Speaker 1: stole nineteen million dollars from this blood drenched Russian billionaire um.
Speaker 1: Which what is funny about this is that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is all crazy and evil, but I don't care
Speaker 1: that someone stole nineteen million dollars from that guy. I
Speaker 1: don't care at all. No, But but he's bad, I
Speaker 1: keep saying bad. I mean, yeah, I don't know what's
Speaker 1: the word what he's amused to describe these people? I
Speaker 1: don't know. Ye, Bastard is a good starter term. This
Speaker 1: story makes it because if you remember from part one
Speaker 1: we were talking about there's a rumor that he's basically
Speaker 1: stole ten million dollars, right Ferdinand Marcos, the dictator of
Speaker 1: the Philippines, and Paul denies it, but this makes it.
Speaker 1: Of course he did that. This is what he does.
Speaker 1: He steals money from terrible people and assumes he'll be
Speaker 1: fine because they will probably need him in the future.
Speaker 1: A hit out on him now or something like there's
Speaker 1: got to be There's no way to confirm it, but
Speaker 1: like yeah, right, yeah, um So things start to go
Speaker 1: off the rails for Paul Manafort at this point because
Speaker 1: in spite of all of the money coming in from Yanukovich,
Speaker 1: which was at least twelve point five million by like
Speaker 1: the mid oughts uh in the nineteen million dollars he
Speaker 1: stole from dey Poshka, Paul was deep in debt. This
Speaker 1: is because he loved debt and thought anyone who wasn't
Speaker 1: even debt was a sucker. He took out a fifteen
Speaker 1: million dollar loan or fifteen million dollars in loans over
Speaker 1: a two year period, backed by his real estate, which
Speaker 1: the experts say is a classic money laundering tactic. Robert
Speaker 1: Mueller's indictment alleged that Manafort actually led on several loan
Speaker 1: applications in order to get money. So he's he's committing
Speaker 1: shiploads of crimes and just assuming no one will ever
Speaker 1: look into it, which in this period of time no
Speaker 1: one is looking into it. He's just getting loans left
Speaker 1: and right, and millions of dollars and buying houses and
Speaker 1: horse stables. He's fine, um, But he wound up being
Speaker 1: in real trouble in November of two thousand and thirteen,
Speaker 1: when crowds assembled in Kiev's Independent Square, better known as
Speaker 1: the Maidan. These protesters were angry that President Yanukovich had
Speaker 1: decided to back out of signing an association agreement with
Speaker 1: the EU in favor of closer relations with Putin's Russia.
Speaker 1: So Yanukovich sent his elite bar Kut riot police in
Speaker 1: to disperse the protesters. They did this with tremendous violence.
Speaker 1: This sparked more protests and brought a wider swath of
Speaker 1: the population out into the street, including the parents of
Speaker 1: the kids who had first been beaten for protesting. Things
Speaker 1: got out of hand very quickly, like as out of
Speaker 1: hand as they could possibly get. Within a few weeks,
Speaker 1: the protests had turned from protests into people building an
Speaker 1: ice fortress in the center of Ukraine's capital Um. This
Speaker 1: fortress had like the resources of a small city, including
Speaker 1: communal kitchens, restrooms, media areas of library, medical tents, and catapults.
Speaker 1: So these protesters are like fighting against the dictator in
Speaker 1: the center of his capital city, with like police laying
Speaker 1: siege to them, and like ice walls that they're defending
Speaker 1: with catapults throwing hundreds of molotov I was This is
Speaker 1: one of the first stories I ever covered. And there
Speaker 1: are videos you can find of police tanks trying to
Speaker 1: ram the walls of this fortress and then throwing so
Speaker 1: many Molotov cocktails that the tank's treads melt to the ground.
Speaker 1: It's nuts. The Ukrainian Revolution of two fourteen is one
Speaker 1: of the craziest looking protest movements you will ever see. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fucking nuts. Um and the berkout like these police
Speaker 1: that he's turned in essentially his gestapo, are doing things
Speaker 1: like arresting people they suspect of supplying this protest camp
Speaker 1: and stripping them naked and throwing them into the snow
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Ukrainian winter, which is like
Speaker 1: there's no that's this winter gets right and some people
Speaker 1: die doing this, Like so the fortress is the protesters
Speaker 1: or the tanks, or the fortress is the protests, the
Speaker 1: tanks or the government, which would make sense, but still
Speaker 1: a fortress. And it's such a nuts protest that people
Speaker 1: hate Yanukovich so much in Ukraine that there are Nazis
Speaker 1: fighting alongside Jewish people and communists against the government, like
Speaker 1: it was. It was that kind of fucking crazy, like
Speaker 1: like everyone can agree, we gotta get this fucker out
Speaker 1: of office. Um. So it's it's like that's how much
Speaker 1: people hate him within western Ukraine. He's actually pretty popular
Speaker 1: in the east. Um. And again, Paul manifort strategy for
Speaker 1: trying to build popularity for the Yunukovich regime was to
Speaker 1: exacerbate the and emphasized sort of the differences between the
Speaker 1: East and the West, because the East part of the
Speaker 1: Ukraine liked Russia wanted to be closer with Russia, and
Speaker 1: the West like the EU more and wanted to be
Speaker 1: closer to the EU. And so his big strategy for
Speaker 1: Yanukovich was played the East and shipped on the West
Speaker 1: as much as possible and get the two sides of
Speaker 1: the country angry at each other because that will ensure
Speaker 1: more popularity for you. So that's big Paul Manaforce. Whole
Speaker 1: strategy is to incite civil unrest within the country in
Speaker 1: order to make things. Yeah. So this is how Paul
Speaker 1: Manafford suggests playing Ukraine and exactly what Yanukovich does. Uh.
Speaker 1: In December, when all of this is really hitting a
Speaker 1: point of crazy escalation, Paul Manafort sends a text to
Speaker 1: his daughter Andrea. He says Obama's approval ratings are lower
Speaker 1: than Yanukovich is, and you don't see him being ousted.
Speaker 1: So that's his him figuring it's going to be okay,
Speaker 1: because for him it has to be okay because he
Speaker 1: is so deep in debt that if he doesn't keep
Speaker 1: getting the millions of dollars he's getting from dictator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly from this dictator. This is good whale right now.
Speaker 1: If this money train stops, he's fucked. So he just
Speaker 1: tells himself it's going to be fine. Crazy And you
Speaker 1: said that he likes debt. Couldn't he just pay this
Speaker 1: debt off? No, because he's spending his money as soon
Speaker 1: as he makes it he's buying houses without even looking
Speaker 1: at them. He did, like he said, he does stuff
Speaker 1: like when his daughter says she wants to learn horseback writing,
Speaker 1: he buys her a star and he has purebred horses
Speaker 1: flown in from Ireland along with a full time staff
Speaker 1: to take care of Like that's how he's spending money,
Speaker 1: and so everything is flying out of his hands as
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. Before this point, he's he urged the
Speaker 1: Yanukovich to exacerbate tensions between East and West in order
Speaker 1: to really solidify his reign. And when this protest movement
Speaker 1: starts picking up steam, he advises him to start brutally
Speaker 1: suppressing the protesters, which you can debate on how much
Speaker 1: suggestion Yanukovich needed to do that, because he's a pretty
Speaker 1: bad guy himself. Well, but even to make the suggestion
Speaker 1: is crazy. Yeah, And we'll get into who says that
Speaker 1: he did that a little bit later, because it's pretty damning.
Speaker 1: Um So. In January and February fourteen, the Ukrainian Revolution
Speaker 1: escalated to a point of true insanity. I conducted dozens
Speaker 1: of interviews with protesters during this period, people who reported
Speaker 1: being beaten with truncheons and shot with rubber bullets at
Speaker 1: point blank range. One of the guys that was interviewing
Speaker 1: at one point, I asked him what he planned, because
Speaker 1: he was a guy like driving cars full of supplies
Speaker 1: into this place and out and like avoiding the police
Speaker 1: on the streets while it happened. And I asked him, like,
Speaker 1: what he planned to do if the police came after him,
Speaker 1: and he just pulled a revolver out that he had
Speaker 1: in his jacket and said, like, this is what I
Speaker 1: planned to do if the police come me. And I
Speaker 1: never talked to that guy again. I tried to. I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to him. A lot of people
Speaker 1: disappeared during this period of time, and he's one of
Speaker 1: the people I've never gotten back in touch with. I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. Um So, from February eighth to
Speaker 1: the twenty, President Yanukovich took the gloves off, possibly at
Speaker 1: Paul Manifort's behest. In two days, his police shot nearly
Speaker 1: a hundred protesters dead. The police advanced in huge numbers,
Speaker 1: and a giant medieval battle was raged over the my
Speaker 1: on Ice Fortress. A lot of it was streamed live,
Speaker 1: and I remember watching the last few minutes before the
Speaker 1: signal cut off protesters. Their ice walls had been torn
Speaker 1: down and broken apart by the police, so they had
Speaker 1: built a wall of fire and were burning all of
Speaker 1: their structures in tents and in the middle of the
Speaker 1: Ukrainian Winner. One of the last things I saw was
Speaker 1: people stripping off their jackets and clothing in the frigid
Speaker 1: cold and throwing it into the fire to try and
Speaker 1: keep the fire going, to keep the fire going and
Speaker 1: the police away. So this is how fucking insane. It
Speaker 1: looked like the end of the damn world. Um, but
Speaker 1: it worked. They succeeded in raising so much unrest in
Speaker 1: the western part of Ukraine that President Yanukovich had to
Speaker 1: flee the country for Russia. UM. So they ousted their
Speaker 1: president and of course a civil war immediately sparked right
Speaker 1: after that. Essentially a big chunk of the east declared
Speaker 1: itself a separate country, and Russian backed separatists is the
Speaker 1: term you'll hear for these guys. A lot of them
Speaker 1: are Russian soldiers who would just take off their uniform
Speaker 1: patches and walk across. This is when Russia and X
Speaker 1: is the CRIMEA. All of this stuff happens and this
Speaker 1: whole East West divide that led to a civil war
Speaker 1: that's killed ten thousand people in counting, was again Paul
Speaker 1: Manafort saying, you should exacerbate the divide between East and
Speaker 1: West in order to increase your own power. So you
Speaker 1: can credibly say Paul Manafort had a major role in
Speaker 1: sparking the Ukrainian Civil War because it it kind of
Speaker 1: happened as a result of Yanukovich following his advice again
Speaker 1: not to take credit for being a monster from Yanukovich away,
Speaker 1: because he's a piece of ship too. But Paul Manafort
Speaker 1: has a lot of blood on his hands, is on site.
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, by the end of February two, that's
Speaker 1: in fourteen, Yanukovich is out in the country. Is no
Speaker 1: longer safe for Paul Manafort, which was a problem because
Speaker 1: his office right next to the IDA was filled with
Speaker 1: papers that showed he'd been paid millions of dollars that
Speaker 1: he hadn't reported yet to anyone, including the US government, who,
Speaker 1: thanks to that Fassa Act that we heard about in
Speaker 1: the first part, you have to register when you're working.
Speaker 1: Manafort hadn't, and he hadn't been reporting these payments, and
Speaker 1: he hadn't been paying taxes on these payments. We'll get
Speaker 1: into more. I mean, I mean, everything is so awful
Speaker 1: that I'm like, I don't even Yeah, the tax fraud thing,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's what will bring him down because we
Speaker 1: live in a topsy tervy society where everything else he
Speaker 1: did was fine. Um anyway, Yeah, So around two fourteen
Speaker 1: is when Paul Manaford's life starts to come off the
Speaker 1: fucking rails. His daughters catch him having an affair with
Speaker 1: a woman thirty years younger than him. He'd apparently paid
Speaker 1: for his mistresses nine thousand dollar a month apartment in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: He bought her a house in the Hampton's. He had
Speaker 1: also given her an American Express card and let her
Speaker 1: spend however much she wanted. During this time, his mistress
Speaker 1: went on a friend's podcast and said, quote, I only
Speaker 1: go to luxury restaurants and then talked about how fancy
Speaker 1: her life was. This is part of how his daughters
Speaker 1: found out about. Yeah. So when his daughters go to him,
Speaker 1: Manafort apologizes to them and promises to clean up his act.
Speaker 1: And then six months later they catch him cheating again
Speaker 1: with the same woman because she posted about one of
Speaker 1: their trips on Instagram. Yes, it's so crazy to be
Speaker 1: so so savvy with manipulating people and to be so
Speaker 1: stupid at the same time. Yeah, there's some people who
Speaker 1: are like George Bush is a very specific piece of ship.
Speaker 1: He was a piece of ship in a couple of
Speaker 1: specific ways, but the rest of the time, like as
Speaker 1: a parent, as a husband and stuff, nobody has any complaints.
Speaker 1: Paul Manifort is comprehensively a piece of shpe top to bottom,
Speaker 1: top to bottom, going for the gold and every single kid.
Speaker 1: How can I be the worst person I can possibly be?
Speaker 1: I think even it's funny daily question. On the last
Speaker 1: part one, we talked about how his daughter was conceived
Speaker 1: between conference calls and thinking about that a little bit
Speaker 1: more like, initially I thought that that's a crazy thing
Speaker 1: to tell your daughter, and it's crazy alone to just
Speaker 1: be like, hey, you know how we were conceived. Ever
Speaker 1: do you even say that? That's disgusting? Like, you know,
Speaker 1: your mom and I had sex at this specific place
Speaker 1: and that's where you came from. Oh man, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So this is as good a time as any to
Speaker 1: talk about Paul Manaforts lovely daughters. Now we're fortunate enough
Speaker 1: that several Ukrainian hackers managed to steal his daughter Andrea's
Speaker 1: text message records, and in fact I haven't had a
Speaker 1: chance to use them for this episode, but just today
Speaker 1: someone posted a searchable database of the Maniford texts. You
Speaker 1: can really yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's fantastic. WikiLeaks refused
Speaker 1: to publish a lot of them for really, yeah, because
Speaker 1: they're shady. Use WikiLeaks is shady, yeah, yeah yeah, but
Speaker 1: they're out there and they're amazing. In these texts, which
Speaker 1: Paul Manifort himself has said are legitimately text from his
Speaker 1: daughter and him. In these texts, Andrea tells her sister
Speaker 1: Jessica that their dad has quote no moral or legal compass.
Speaker 1: Don't fool yourself, She says. The money we have is
Speaker 1: blood money. So yeah, Andrea sounds nice when you hear
Speaker 1: that part, right, it does. And in her text to
Speaker 1: her friends and family, Andrea implicates her father in the
Speaker 1: murder of a hundred Ukrainian protesters. Quote, you know, he
Speaker 1: has killed people in Ukraine knowingly as a tactic to
Speaker 1: outrage the world and get focused on Ukraine. Remember when
Speaker 1: there were all those deaths taking place a while back.
Speaker 1: She's talking about all the people who are killed those
Speaker 1: two days in the my dawn about a year ago,
Speaker 1: revolts and whatnot. Do you know that whose strategy that
Speaker 1: was to cause that, to send those people out and
Speaker 1: get them slaughtered. He is a sick, fucking tyrant. And
Speaker 1: we keep showing up and dancing for him. We just
Speaker 1: keep showing up and eating the lobster. Nothing changes. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you hear that, and you you kind of like
Speaker 1: Andrea and you think maybe evil skipped generation. We're going
Speaker 1: to get a little bit deeper into her personality. But
Speaker 1: first advertisements capitalism also by Doritos. All right, adds and
Speaker 1: we're back, uh, and we're talking about Andrea Maniffort, Paul
Speaker 1: Manafford's lovely daughter who has just at this point it
Speaker 1: seems great, Yeah, because she's calling yourself where she knows
Speaker 1: their money's blood money. She's implicated her father in the
Speaker 1: deaths of a hundred people, mad at her dad, trying
Speaker 1: to be her dad. That's how it seems. That's how
Speaker 1: it seems. Now we're going to get into the conversations
Speaker 1: and text messages that she sent during the election. Okay, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: So here is a conversation from March seventeen, sixteen, Jessica
Speaker 1: man Afford, guess who called dad last night and asked
Speaker 1: him to run his conventions? Donald Trump? Andrea Manaford. Mom
Speaker 1: told me he was going to call dad. She told
Speaker 1: me to get ready for Trump to be president and
Speaker 1: picked the position in the White House I want, Jessica.
Speaker 1: Dad gave him his list of requirements and so long
Speaker 1: as he can fulfill the list, Dad accepted. So that's
Speaker 1: super charming. She's just their mom immediately promised them jobs
Speaker 1: in the White House because Paul Manafort is going to
Speaker 1: be running Donald Trump's campaign. Yeah, they're all excited about that. Um,
Speaker 1: everyone wants a job. I should note that in two
Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, Paul Manaford had something of a breakdown after
Speaker 1: he was caught cheating a second time. This may have
Speaker 1: had something to do with the fact that he was
Speaker 1: running out of money. He threatened suicide over the phone
Speaker 1: to his daughters and wound up at a clinic in Arizona,
Speaker 1: and that's when those texts that were very negative towards
Speaker 1: Paul Manafort were sent. So maybe that they're just angry
Speaker 1: that the money train had stopped and that their dad
Speaker 1: was being whiny to them, which is maybe why they're
Speaker 1: more friendly later on, so we'll see. Uh. And when
Speaker 1: he got out, obviously gets out of this this clinic thing,
Speaker 1: Paul goes shopping for despots because he needed money and
Speaker 1: the only thing he knows that to do is help
Speaker 1: authoritarian strongman. And everyone turned him down because the Ukraine
Speaker 1: had been a really high profile funk up for him,
Speaker 1: So I should say everyone turned him down until he
Speaker 1: went to Donald Trump, who was of course his old client,
Speaker 1: as we discussed, and also why in campaign, Yeah, well
Speaker 1: he was also rinching a room from him. Every murderer
Speaker 1: said no, yeah, okay, okay, no, no, it's okay, and
Speaker 1: it's great because he reached out to Donald Trump and
Speaker 1: asked if he could work on his campaign and stuff like.
Speaker 1: And when he started doing that, he was talking to
Speaker 1: his friends about it, and his friends all said the
Speaker 1: same thing, which was basically, Paul, you are the shadiest
Speaker 1: man in the world. You commit crimes constantly. The last
Speaker 1: thing you should do is get involved in a presidential election.
Speaker 1: There's no way that this sends well for you. But
Speaker 1: he did it anyway. Um, when he offers to work
Speaker 1: on the Trump campaign, he offers to do it for
Speaker 1: free because obviously, like again, he got his start because
Speaker 1: he helped Reagan win and then helped place people in
Speaker 1: the Reagan White House and then Bobby that's what he's
Speaker 1: planning to do again, right, So he doesn't whatever money
Speaker 1: Donald could legally offer him is not going to help him,
Speaker 1: so he just offers to do it for free. Um
Speaker 1: And on May nineteen, two and sixteen, he becomes Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's official campaign manager. But even before that point, he
Speaker 1: was a big part of the Trump operation, which we
Speaker 1: know because of what his daughter Andrea texted to a
Speaker 1: friend in March twenty nine. Friend, I'm not paying enough
Speaker 1: attention to really form an opinion, but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: economy makes sense. I just hate what an asshole Trump is.
Speaker 1: In the process, she's clearly saying, like you have you've
Speaker 1: been paying attention anyway. Andrea says, well, hopefully my dad
Speaker 1: will help scale that back. That's part of the reason
Speaker 1: he was brought on. He's refusing payment because he doesn't
Speaker 1: want to be viewed as Trump's employee, only having his
Speaker 1: expenses covered. He's involved purely because he wants to help
Speaker 1: the country and he thinks Trump is best, so long
Speaker 1: as Trump gets trained a bit. PS. This is all
Speaker 1: top secret, so please do not repeat your texts are
Speaker 1: never top secret. Andrea, dude, he is second in command,
Speaker 1: perhaps arguably running it. The campaign manager is all for show.
Speaker 1: Korey Lowandowski doesn't do ship. Trump has been managing his
Speaker 1: own campaign. And Andrea's view of things, which is probably
Speaker 1: the view of things Paul wanted to present to his daughter.
Speaker 1: He's a master puppeteer controlling Donald Trump on a string.
Speaker 1: For the sake of portraying the full picture, I've decided
Speaker 1: to include some other recollections of Donald Trump and Paul
Speaker 1: Manaforts working relationship. Our first source is this fantastically named
Speaker 1: Business Insider article. Trump reportedly once ordered his helicopter to
Speaker 1: fly low so he could stay on the phone to
Speaker 1: yell at Paul Manafort's incredible. That says a lot. That
Speaker 1: editor is great. Yeah, that's that's the best title. Now,
Speaker 1: this is all based on Korey Lewandowski's memoir, so it
Speaker 1: should be taken with as much salt as what Andrea says.
Speaker 1: Neither of them are reliable narrators in this. But this
Speaker 1: is the other view of things, is that Trump's angry
Speaker 1: at him a lot um. Lewandowski says that he was
Speaker 1: angry in this specific incident because Maniford had advised Trump
Speaker 1: not to go on TV after doing something dumb. Trump
Speaker 1: cursed him out and said, I know guys like you
Speaker 1: with your hair and your skin. These people they're just garbage,
Speaker 1: not even good at being funny. Now, think if you're
Speaker 1: that evil, you would at least be funny, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? No, the charming evil guy is a Mr. Scheming,
Speaker 1: And none of them are like Hans Gruber, where you're like,
Speaker 1: you're so bad, but you are so satisfying to listen.
Speaker 1: I want them to have at least like cute catchphrases. No,
Speaker 1: none of that ship um so yeah. Lewandowski claims Trump
Speaker 1: was infuriated after a New York Times article came out
Speaker 1: that suggested members of Trump's campaign went on TV to
Speaker 1: talk to their boss. The articles like Paul Manafort showing
Speaker 1: up on CNN so that Trump will listen to what
Speaker 1: he says because he did, like that was what the
Speaker 1: New York Times was alleging. Uh, and Trump reportedly said,
Speaker 1: you think you've got to be on TV to talk
Speaker 1: to me? You treat me like a baby. Am I
Speaker 1: like a baby to you? I sit there like a
Speaker 1: little baby and watch TV and you talk to me,
Speaker 1: Am I a fucking baby? Paul? This happened during the elections.
Speaker 1: That's what Kory Lowandowski says. Yeah, Wow, Trump, It's like
Speaker 1: this with everybody who works for him, right. I I
Speaker 1: have no trouble believing that both sides of this could
Speaker 1: be true, that Paul Manafort was manipulating Trump and that
Speaker 1: Trump also accused him of treating him like a little baby.
Speaker 1: So it seems like a campaign manager's job is to
Speaker 1: treat the candidate like a baby because they know and
Speaker 1: you don't. I mean, not that I'm defending. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I said, his work with Trump is the least terrible
Speaker 1: thing he's done in this story. Yeah. Um so. Andrea's
Speaker 1: text again represent I think what Manafort wanted her to believe,
Speaker 1: and that said. Here's what she said to a friend
Speaker 1: on a seventh The friend asked, is Paul getting a
Speaker 1: bigger role? Seems like it. Andrea said, you're surprised. I
Speaker 1: told you this was the game. You think Paul does
Speaker 1: anything in moderation? Friend? And like, if Trump gets elected,
Speaker 1: guess who's going to be chief of staff? Andrea, he
Speaker 1: would never accept. Friend. Too many skeletons in his closet, Andrea,
Speaker 1: too constrictive. Paul is a lone wolf, has to go
Speaker 1: his own way, do what he wants and how he wants.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have room for other people in their needs
Speaker 1: once Friend, Yeah, that sounds about right, Andrea. He likes
Speaker 1: the challenge. That's why he's doing this. It's a game
Speaker 1: for him. He isn't being paid. Friend, man, I bet
Speaker 1: he's loving it. Andrea. This is pure sport. He's a
Speaker 1: power hungry egomaniac. Yes, he is loving it conclusively. Him
Speaker 1: and Trump are perfect allies for this agenda. It's so weird.
Speaker 1: He is my dad. It's just weird, Like my dad
Speaker 1: doesn't seem that smart, Like he is smart, but I
Speaker 1: know I'm smarter than him. Friend, I don't doubt that
Speaker 1: he's a master manipulator, which seems pretty key, Andrea. He
Speaker 1: is very manipulative. I did inherit that ability, but I
Speaker 1: don't exploit it like he does. I know his tactics.
Speaker 1: They aren't that brilliant, but they do work. Friend. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're right, you have a moral conscious, but she meant conscience, Andrea,
Speaker 1: Like he just tells you the sky is green, over
Speaker 1: and over, and eventually you are like, is it. I
Speaker 1: don't possess the ability to just lie like he does. Friend, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he works his charm, Andrea. It's confidence. When you save
Speaker 1: something unwaveringly, people start to believe it. Friend. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what got Trump where he is today. Andrea, Yep, perfect, allies.
Speaker 1: Trump probably has more morals than my dad, which is
Speaker 1: really just saying something about my dad. My dad is
Speaker 1: a psycho. Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. At least
Speaker 1: Trump let his wives leave him. Plus, Trump has been
Speaker 1: a good father, Andrea, which that's kind of heartbreaking if
Speaker 1: you consider Donald Trump a good father compared to your dad.
Speaker 1: At least Trump let his wives leave him. There's like
Speaker 1: nothing for me to get into specifically about that, but
Speaker 1: like something horrifying is happening that we don't even know
Speaker 1: about yet. At least he lets his wives leave him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, then what is Paul manafor doing to
Speaker 1: his wife? I don't know. Um, I assumed wrapping her
Speaker 1: at the very least. Yeah. I assume Andrea is gonna
Speaker 1: because of something she texts later. I assume we'll get
Speaker 1: a book from her eventually, that's her side of what
Speaker 1: was going on when she decides anyway, Uh, Andrea, Trump
Speaker 1: waited a little too long, in my opinion, but I
Speaker 1: can attest to the fact that he has now hired
Speaker 1: one of the world's greatest manipulators. I hope my dad
Speaker 1: pulls it off. Then I can sell my memoir with
Speaker 1: all his dirty little secrets for a pretty penny. So
Speaker 1: why do you think she's going to write a book? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's not great. It's so funny the difference in tone
Speaker 1: between those two conversations. Yeah, she literally said the exact
Speaker 1: same things, one of them being mad, one of them
Speaker 1: thinking it's cool. Yeah, exactly, and she clearly thinks it's
Speaker 1: cool now that he's helping to put a guy in
Speaker 1: charge of her. Here. Uh, here's another thing. She texts
Speaker 1: on April twelve, Andrea to a friend, By the way,
Speaker 1: if you want to exploit my dad to better your career,
Speaker 1: please let me know a friend. Are you serious, Andrea,
Speaker 1: completely friends, I wouldn't be opposed to exploiting him. Andrea,
Speaker 1: I am on a business l basis with my dad,
Speaker 1: which is another heartbreaking. In another exchange, a friend whose
Speaker 1: dad worked at lockeed. Martin asks Andrea to talk to
Speaker 1: her dad so the campaign could reach out to them,
Speaker 1: since Locked didn't want to be seen as reaching out
Speaker 1: to Trump but wanted to talk. Andrea said she was
Speaker 1: happy to be a quote conduit and this quote pretty
Speaker 1: much gives you her home moral compass. Andrea totally get it.
Speaker 1: Not every day you know the man behind the man
Speaker 1: got to exploit it, which is why I'm happy to help,
Speaker 1: because fuck it. Hopefully someone can benefit to my relationship
Speaker 1: to the Count of Monty Cristo, which is what Paul
Speaker 1: Manafford's nickname was in DC for a while, the Count
Speaker 1: of Money Christmas people called him in like the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties. Shad's a bad nickname. These people are bad
Speaker 1: at everything, manipulating governments. Yeah. After he resigned as Trump's
Speaker 1: campaign manager on August nine, sixteen, because it was revealed
Speaker 1: that he had been taking millions of dollars in payments
Speaker 1: from a Ukrainian dictator without Yeah, that that all got
Speaker 1: That's why he had to leave. Andrea claimed that it
Speaker 1: was basically a fake Risik nation and he was still
Speaker 1: active behind the scenes. Quote, yes, for sure. He said that.
Speaker 1: In the next few weeks, we should hopefully be seeing
Speaker 1: a new Trump, so to speak. Last night's speech was
Speaker 1: a speech my dad had been pushing him to make
Speaker 1: for several weeks, and since it was so well received,
Speaker 1: he thinks Trump will be more responsive to doing things
Speaker 1: a bit differently. Later, friend, thoughts go out to your pops.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine that he's relieved, angry, hurting, a
Speaker 1: combination of a lot of emotions. Wishing you and your
Speaker 1: family the best. Andrea, ha ha ha, You're so silly.
Speaker 1: It's all just pr I don't like Andrea. No, I
Speaker 1: don't like her at all. People are all garbage. I mean,
Speaker 1: she turned out better than her dad, but that's a
Speaker 1: low bar. I mean, yeah, that's a low bar. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what to say. It's just so ter
Speaker 1: every time something happens, I just don't there's nothing to say.
Speaker 1: It's like, yep, that's shitty, just a big old garbage pile.
Speaker 1: How old is Andrea at this point? And I think
Speaker 1: she was born eighty four, so she's like thirty four. Um,
Speaker 1: she's a grown up. Yeah, she's a grown up, and
Speaker 1: she got the horses. Her sister, Jessica, has been in
Speaker 1: some movies Jessica Manafort. You can find her at IMDb.
Speaker 1: Some of like the high school days or days moved
Speaker 1: da Z like like that ship and Paul Manafort subsidized
Speaker 1: that with millions of dollars. Yeah, she got to be
Speaker 1: a producer and a bunch of stuff. Yeah. He helps
Speaker 1: his little girls make their dreams come true with dictator money.
Speaker 1: So uh, Andrea did not text about the June nine,
Speaker 1: two sixteen Trump Tower and meeting Manafort held with Donald
Speaker 1: Trump junior, Jared Kushner, and a lawyer connected to the
Speaker 1: Russian government. The instensible purpose of that meeting was so
Speaker 1: the campaign could received leaked info about Hillary Clinton. According
Speaker 1: to Manafort, they quickly realized the meeting was actually about
Speaker 1: the appeal of the Magnitsky Act, which basically sanctioned a
Speaker 1: bunch of super rich Russians because they murdered a guy
Speaker 1: who was investigating their corruption. Um, the Russians want that removed.
Speaker 1: And then Manafort just his claim is that no, we
Speaker 1: just want to dirt on Hillary Clinton. And they started
Speaker 1: talking about this, and so we the meeting was a
Speaker 1: nothing burger. Anyway, This gets us caught up to the
Speaker 1: stuff that most people actually know. Uh, Paul Manafort, you know,
Speaker 1: helped Donald Trump on his way to power again. You know,
Speaker 1: that's not the worst thing he did. Uh. It is, however,
Speaker 1: the thing that finally tore his world apart. Since two
Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen, he went from yeah, funding his daughters
Speaker 1: in their dreams to being able to provide nothing more
Speaker 1: than hot dogs and no ice for Andrea's wedding reception
Speaker 1: and ceasing all funding of Jessica's artistic career. So the
Speaker 1: money train is stopped for the Maniford daughters. Unfortunately, that
Speaker 1: hot dogs and no ice thing, is that a line
Speaker 1: that you wrote or he had? He eliminated a line
Speaker 1: item on her wedding budget for ice and suggested that
Speaker 1: they use hot dogs in the reception. Because he doesn't
Speaker 1: have he he didn't have the money. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: the money anymore. It's got a lot of lawyers right
Speaker 1: now fu him. I know, this is one of those
Speaker 1: rare stories where he's up and it looks like he's
Speaker 1: going to get his come up, and because he just
Speaker 1: fucked up too hard, and if he just stayed away
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump a little bit less like a rich
Speaker 1: guy for a up of years, none of this would
Speaker 1: have been found out. But because he gets that public
Speaker 1: people find out about the Ukraine stuff, and it just
Speaker 1: starts this avalanche of shit um. Last July, federal agents
Speaker 1: rated his home, frisked his wife, and took a shipload
Speaker 1: of his records. In February, a federal grand jury handed
Speaker 1: down a combined thirty two indictments for Paul and Manafort
Speaker 1: and Rick Gates, his assistant. Paul faced quote, seven counts
Speaker 1: of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial records,
Speaker 1: five counts of bank fraud conspiracy, and four counts of
Speaker 1: bank fraud. So he is committing some fucking I mean,
Speaker 1: he'd been committing these crimes for years now, people give
Speaker 1: a ship. One of the many things that got him
Speaker 1: in trouble is obviously he hadn't registered as a foreign
Speaker 1: agent under FASSA. He tried to in two thousands seventeen
Speaker 1: uh and officially filed that he had made more than
Speaker 1: seventeen million or so from Yanukovich, but we know it's
Speaker 1: a lot more. Uh. Manaport turned himself in and was
Speaker 1: released on ten million dollars bail and given house arrest.
Speaker 1: His two trials were scheduled in Virginia in d c
Speaker 1: in late July and September. Robert Mueller believes that Manafort
Speaker 1: funneled more than seventy five million dollars through afshore accounts.
Speaker 1: So Mueller says even when he registered and said he
Speaker 1: got ninety million, he was lying by a factor of
Speaker 1: like four, and he says. Mueller says that Manafort succeeded
Speaker 1: in landering about thirty million dollars of that by the
Speaker 1: time he got caught through a variety of real estate
Speaker 1: transactions and other rich guys shadiness. Mueller says they failed
Speaker 1: to pay taxes on any of this for a decade,
Speaker 1: and also used fraud to get more than twenty million
Speaker 1: dollars in bank loans during this period in time. So uh,
Speaker 1: Paul was not about to take being accused of committing
Speaker 1: multiple federal crimes lying down. He got out his trusty
Speaker 1: cell phone while he was on house arrest and started
Speaker 1: texting two people who were working as witnesses against them.
Speaker 1: These people had earlier helped him lobby and we're now
Speaker 1: state's witness against him. Paul Manafort asked them to pretend
Speaker 1: the lobbying work had only been in Europe and not
Speaker 1: in the United States. So that he hadn't violated, you know, fassa.
Speaker 1: He also asked them to put in a good word
Speaker 1: for him to several European leaders they'd previously lobbied. These
Speaker 1: guys basically didn't say anything and ignored his calls because
Speaker 1: they we're already talking to the federal government and stuff.
Speaker 1: But Paul kept texting them, and that's how Mueller found
Speaker 1: the text in idiot, fucking idiot, Yeah, like this is Paul.
Speaker 1: We should talk. I have made clear that they worked
Speaker 1: in Europe, and eventually Mueller caught on, and so Paul
Speaker 1: Manafort went from being an house arrested a mansion to
Speaker 1: going to an actual fucking jail. And for a while
Speaker 1: he was in a rich v I P cell with
Speaker 1: a private shower and access to a laptop. But he
Speaker 1: has since been moved to an actual jail where he
Speaker 1: wears a prison jumpsuit, like and he's in jail with
Speaker 1: a bunch of other people who are in fucking jail.
Speaker 1: Really yeah good, Yeah, here is his fucking mug shot.
Speaker 1: I've seen that. That's a good one. A real fuck ship.
Speaker 1: Fuck you, Paul Manafort. That feels good, It feels great,
Speaker 1: It feels good in a way that we don't get
Speaker 1: off in these days. Also just saying fuck you Paul Manafort. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a thing like every now and then I'll just
Speaker 1: say fun Trump on stage when I'm performing, and it's
Speaker 1: not a joke. It does nothing for the show, but god,
Speaker 1: it feels good. It's a little bit of a catharsis
Speaker 1: a day to day at that. Yeah, yeah, fuck fuck
Speaker 1: Trump and fuck Paul Manafort, the fucker behind the fuckers. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: I guess for a little bit of a rant. As
Speaker 1: I said, I visited Ukraine for the first time in
Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. You know, I reported on the revolution
Speaker 1: remotely into in fourteen, and I visited in two thousand fifteen,
Speaker 1: and I interviewed survivors of the might on protests, and
Speaker 1: I also reported on the civil war that has since
Speaker 1: broken out in that country. At one point, I found
Speaker 1: myself in a little town called Abdivka, near the front
Speaker 1: lines of the civil war. The Russian back separatists were
Speaker 1: shelling the little town when I arrived, and I spent
Speaker 1: a memorable morning in a city administrative building with a
Speaker 1: bunch of middle aged office workers. The building had been
Speaker 1: hit several times before the bathroom had been collapsed in
Speaker 1: by shell fire and most of the windows were gone,
Speaker 1: but it otherwise looked just like any other like small
Speaker 1: government municipal building, like little old ladies with garfield like
Speaker 1: stuffed animals and stuff on their desks. But right now
Speaker 1: and then you'd hear a big hundred and fifty five
Speaker 1: millimeter howit's er fire, and everybody would just tense up
Speaker 1: for a second until you realize the round wasn't going
Speaker 1: to land nearby. So Avdeva had been undersiege for about
Speaker 1: a year at that point in the civil war that
Speaker 1: Paul Manaford helped start, and the local government had been
Speaker 1: reduced to basically just handing out plastic sheets to people
Speaker 1: who had their windows shattered by mortar fire, because the
Speaker 1: winters are too cold to not have your house sealed,
Speaker 1: so that's all the government can do at this point
Speaker 1: is people are handing in like their ideas and getting
Speaker 1: marked down how much plastic they're getting, and then these
Speaker 1: ladies are cutting them pieces of plastic sheeting to take
Speaker 1: back to their house. And at one point, while I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting around interviewing these people, an elderly couple comes
Speaker 1: in and their house had been hit that morning. Um.
Speaker 1: The husband was shaking and couldn't focus his eyes, and
Speaker 1: he had just blood pouring down his forehead, and his
Speaker 1: wife was sort of guiding him into the room, and
Speaker 1: she seemed to be the more together of the two.
Speaker 1: It almost looks a little bit like someone has kind
Speaker 1: of like a palsy when they've been very close to
Speaker 1: an artillery barrage, Like it does shake things up in
Speaker 1: their head. And that's how this guy looked at the time.
Speaker 1: I didn't encounter Paul Maniforts name while I was in
Speaker 1: Ukraine reporting on all this, but I realized much later
Speaker 1: than a number of people had talked about him to me,
Speaker 1: Like in the Philippines years before, Manafort had become a
Speaker 1: hated and cursed figure in Kiev. Over and over again,
Speaker 1: people had told me about the carnage that he had
Speaker 1: helped in Cite, but they hadn't used his name. They
Speaker 1: blamed it on an American political technologist. This is the
Speaker 1: term that they used. Um. Now, I've come to really
Speaker 1: like the term political technologist because I think it accurately
Speaker 1: gets it what's inside the head of a man like
Speaker 1: Paul Manafort. To everyone else, politics is about human lives,
Speaker 1: people striving for some case basic necessities, in some case,
Speaker 1: trying to make the world a better place, trying to
Speaker 1: improve the human condition. That's what politics is to normal people,
Speaker 1: to people with souls, to palm man afford politics, a
Speaker 1: political campaign, a regime is like a broken watch or
Speaker 1: a broken appliance, a refrigerator that's busted, and all he
Speaker 1: cares about is going in there and doing what he
Speaker 1: needs to fix it and get it working. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what the machine is or what it does him,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how it's going to be used. His
Speaker 1: job is to get it working. That's the fucking man
Speaker 1: that he is. Wow. I think it's a term we
Speaker 1: could stand to use more in our own country. Political technologist. Wow. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that's my podcast. It's a wonderful way to define that.
Speaker 1: I'm just sort of soaking in that phrase. Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Ukraine's a lovely country. Do you think that's what they meant?
Speaker 1: That's the term they used. Um. I didn't really know
Speaker 1: what they meant at the time. It was always explained
Speaker 1: to me as their Americans who know how to run
Speaker 1: fancy American style elections, and our guy brought them into
Speaker 1: sort of technologists political technologist. I really like that term
Speaker 1: to um. Yeah, so poem man Aft, I'm straight up
Speaker 1: rocked man. Honestly, I do not appreciate you having me
Speaker 1: on your podcast. I feel horrible now, thank you. This
Speaker 1: is a lot of fun that happens to a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's a happy ending, and that there's a
Speaker 1: good chance he'll die in prison, right, And that's what
Speaker 1: should happen to Paul Manafort. Absolutely, And if he does
Speaker 1: get out of prison, he piste off that Russian billionaire
Speaker 1: who will definitely have him murdering. Yeah, there are hits
Speaker 1: out on him, definitely, and not just from Russia, yea
Speaker 1: or Ukraine because so many people have to want this
Speaker 1: funker dead, absolutely, at least in the Philippines. I don't
Speaker 1: want him dead yet. I want him to spend the
Speaker 1: rest of his life in prison. And what I want
Speaker 1: to have happen is for his his wife and his
Speaker 1: kids to visit him a couple of times and then
Speaker 1: gradually stop, and then no one visits Paul Manafort and
Speaker 1: the world moves on and he's just in prison for
Speaker 1: another thirty or forty years. Well, yeah, and for the
Speaker 1: people in prison to slowly find out about what he did,
Speaker 1: because I don't know, I don't know who's in this prison,
Speaker 1: but I would venture a guest that most people in
Speaker 1: that prison don't think it's that cool to incite violent
Speaker 1: revolutions that kill thousands or millions of we're just selling
Speaker 1: some smack or whatever. They're monsters. He is. But even then,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited for when they forget what he did
Speaker 1: and he's just another name, and he's he'll never wear
Speaker 1: a fancy suit again, he'll never eat gourmet food again,
Speaker 1: he'll never know the glorious taste of Derrito's ranch cheese.
Speaker 1: He'll he'll just be just a ship heead in bridge,
Speaker 1: just a ship head in prison, and he'll die alone
Speaker 1: and unmourned, and he'll know that. Yeah. Yeah, damn, fuck you.
Speaker 1: Paul Manafford, Fuck you. Paul Manafort so eloquently said, I
Speaker 1: couldn't have come up with a better punishment for him. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's nice. This is really the only time we've
Speaker 1: had other than Caddafi on our podcast so far where
Speaker 1: like a bad guy got what was coming to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah that feels good. Yeah, it feels good. It almost
Speaker 1: never happens, but it feels good when it does, so
Speaker 1: you should plug your stuff. Oh sure, yeah, you can't see.
Speaker 1: But I'm laying down in a bed right now. That's
Speaker 1: the sad bed. It's critical to our operation. Laying on
Speaker 1: a bed reaching above me making coffee. Um I my
Speaker 1: name is Dave Ross. I'm a com Dan I tour.
Speaker 1: My website is Dave to the Ross dot com and
Speaker 1: my podcast is Suicide Buddies. It's dark but a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. Yeah, check out Dave Ross and Suicide Buddies
Speaker 1: Suicide Friends. Thanks so much for having me, man, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: thank you for being on. And I'm of course Robert Evans.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at I Write. Okay,
Speaker 1: just two letters. I've get a book on Amazon, a
Speaker 1: brief history advice, so check that out too. You can
Speaker 1: find this podcast on the internet at behind the Bastards
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on social media at
Speaker 1: Bastards pod. Before We'll have all of this mini sources
Speaker 1: for this article and pictures like Paul Maniffort's glorious mug shot.
Speaker 1: So yeah, check us out next week. And you know
Speaker 1: I love statistically about you