Speaker 1: Maybe it's because I read a lot of archie comics
Speaker 1: growing up, or maybe it's because I watched too much
Speaker 1: Laguna Beach. But it's hard not to look at all
Speaker 1: the flora and fauna in the garden and see it
Speaker 1: for what it really is, a whole lot of high
Speaker 1: school drama. In the cafeteria of our backyards. You have
Speaker 1: the nerdy veggies clustered together and doing their work. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was one of those. The vs are clearly running
Speaker 1: for student council, desperately visiting every flower and trying to
Speaker 1: round up votes. The roses feel like the homecoming court,
Speaker 1: tall and good looking and yes, a little prickly. The
Speaker 1: ivy leans against the wall, all punk rock, zero regard
Speaker 1: for authority. The squirrels made varsity and can't stop running laps.
Speaker 1: The worms are in everyone's business. The trees are gossip queens,
Speaker 1: throwing so much shade. And the ants have to be
Speaker 1: the worst marching band in the state, always out of formation.
Speaker 1: Oh and the poor slugs they are never where they're
Speaker 1: supposed to be, just total burnouts. Whatever zip code you're in,
Speaker 1: it's clearly nine O two one oh in your backyard.
Speaker 1: And while yes they look like a rambunctious group of
Speaker 1: youngsters gooping off and causing trouble. They look out for
Speaker 1: each other more than you might think, participating in a
Speaker 1: network that shares resources, foster's growth, and makes for a
Speaker 1: healthier backyard and community as a whole. And the day
Speaker 1: after prom I'm sure they'll take this all in and
Speaker 1: realize they cared about each other more than they ever thought.
Speaker 1: Except the slugs, they won't remember any of this. Hey there,
Speaker 1: I'm Mongays Articular, a co host of Part Time Genius,
Speaker 1: one of the co founders of Mental Floss, and this
Speaker 1: is Humans Growing Stuff, a collaboration from My Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and your friends at Miracle Grow. My goal is to
Speaker 1: make this the most human show about plants you'll ever
Speaker 1: listen to. And along the way, we'll share sweet, inspiring stories,
Speaker 1: tips and tricks to nurture your planet, addiction, and just
Speaker 1: enough science to make you sound like an expert. On
Speaker 1: today's episode, we're gonna take you through the bio diverse
Speaker 1: world living in your backyard. We'll learn how you can
Speaker 1: increase the health of that ecosystem so we can thrive
Speaker 1: and become a sanctuary for the community. Not to mention
Speaker 1: a cool place for all the wildlife in your neighborhood
Speaker 1: to hang out. Chapter seven, The backyard Ecosystem. If you
Speaker 1: know your history the way I do, you've read all
Speaker 1: about the greatest warring tribes who battled for dominance, the
Speaker 1: Lanisters and the Starks, the Rebels and the Empire, the
Speaker 1: sharks and the Jets, the English ivys, and the deciduous trees.
Speaker 1: Well maybe that last one is less talked about, but
Speaker 1: hear me out in your backyard. Part of maintaining order
Speaker 1: is keeping the peace between your green friends and their
Speaker 1: common foes, and that brings us to the topic of
Speaker 1: this segment, Invasive plants. Invasive plants are like your freeloading
Speaker 1: cousin sal who slept on your couch for two weeks,
Speaker 1: a little tough to get rid of, and evasive plants
Speaker 1: can cause a lot of issues. They seed prolifically, so
Speaker 1: they can overwhelm an ecosystem with aggressive growth. Some create
Speaker 1: dense mats or complex root systems that inhibit growth or
Speaker 1: force other plants out. And while they can look quite beautiful,
Speaker 1: the species can cause big problems for the food chain.
Speaker 1: Insects and animals that thrive on native plants, they don't
Speaker 1: stick around when they realize their food supplies dwindling. But
Speaker 1: that's where we come in, because our backyards actually provide
Speaker 1: sanctuary for all wildlife to sleep, feed and survive. So
Speaker 1: what exactly can we do? The answer may be obvious,
Speaker 1: but it requires some work. Grow native plants and remove
Speaker 1: the invasive ones. And there are some simple choices you
Speaker 1: can make based on the ecosystem of where you live. Like,
Speaker 1: say you're dying to plant something purple and perrywinkle feels
Speaker 1: like you're only option. Maybe opt for the native frog
Speaker 1: fruit or ground morning glory instead. If you're craving a
Speaker 1: wall covered in ivy, get rid of that English ivy
Speaker 1: and plant Virginia creeper. It's far less creepy than it sounds.
Speaker 1: Plus it's not harmful to trees the way English ivy is. Oh,
Speaker 1: and it's berries are a good food source to bring
Speaker 1: in birds and insects. But that's just the tip of
Speaker 1: the iceberg. I wanted to learn a little more, so
Speaker 1: I decided to call up an expert. Michelle Burtleson is
Speaker 1: an ecologist for the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center, and
Speaker 1: I thought maybe she could point me in the right
Speaker 1: direction and Michelle, how's it going good? How are you
Speaker 1: doing super well? So I I'm so excited to talk
Speaker 1: to you about the ecosystems in our backyard. But first
Speaker 1: I'm curious as an ecologist, what are some of the
Speaker 1: more exciting aspects of the research and work you're doing
Speaker 1: with plant ecosystems. So one of the things that is
Speaker 1: most exciting to me, especially about the grassland systems, is
Speaker 1: they're often called a forest upside down, so most of
Speaker 1: their mass is underground. You can't see it, but it's massive.
Speaker 1: There's a wonderful picture that I think the Nature Conservancy
Speaker 1: originally did. It's a picture of roots of prairie roots basically,
Speaker 1: so they show the top and it's with a scale
Speaker 1: um and the underground goes down fifteen ft and the
Speaker 1: above ground is only three feet tall. And so it
Speaker 1: just shows what's going on under the ground. And then
Speaker 1: as I studied that, you've realized that it's an entire
Speaker 1: it's an entire community under the ground, just as diverse
Speaker 1: as the one above the ground. And so it's this
Speaker 1: hidden diversity that's I find very exciting, This incredible invisible
Speaker 1: world right that is functioning beneath this is amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and a lot of what we're doing in restoring sire
Speaker 1: actually trying to restore that that below ground community as
Speaker 1: best we can. We only barely understand it. So for
Speaker 1: those at home who don't know, can you talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about what an invasive species is and and
Speaker 1: if they're all bad? So, an invasive species is a
Speaker 1: species that comes into a system and takes over. There
Speaker 1: are not a lot of laws in ecology, but diversity
Speaker 1: being helpful thing is one of them we need. We
Speaker 1: want lots of types of species, we want lots of ages,
Speaker 1: all of those things. And what an invasive species will
Speaker 1: do is it comes in and you go from a
Speaker 1: hundred species to one or two. It's still a plant.
Speaker 1: It's doing what plants do. So there will be some
Speaker 1: function that that is a monoculture. That's not good. Um.
Speaker 1: The term gets thrown around a lot and just apply
Speaker 1: to all non natives, which is not necessarily the case.
Speaker 1: Many of the invasives are non natives. The natural checks
Speaker 1: are not here, and we have our own species from
Speaker 1: this continent have gotten off of this continent. There we
Speaker 1: can havoc elsewhere. How do you how do you rid
Speaker 1: yourself of if you find these species in your backyard.
Speaker 1: First of all, you have to learn your plants, because
Speaker 1: I like to let weeds come up. I kind of
Speaker 1: enjoy watching them come up and see what they are.
Speaker 1: But you need to know what those volunteers are. Some
Speaker 1: of them are great, some of them are not great.
Speaker 1: Some some of them you actually have to use herbicide.
Speaker 1: There are re sprouters that you have to cut it
Speaker 1: off and then spray the stone. Some of you can
Speaker 1: just pull out as long as you're aggressive about it,
Speaker 1: or you can do things like solarizing. If you're just
Speaker 1: like this whole spot is nothing, but in basically um,
Speaker 1: you can solarize. So that's just covering the ground in
Speaker 1: in plastic for a certain amount of time and then restarting.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. What is a volunteer? So it's just
Speaker 1: a plant that comes up without you putting it there,
Speaker 1: just volunteered and it's here now. It's a cute term,
Speaker 1: which I think it's great because they came up without
Speaker 1: me having to do anything. But a lot of them
Speaker 1: are not things I want to keep, so you do
Speaker 1: have to identify them as they come up. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about how you can bring pollinators to a small patch
Speaker 1: of this. Pollinators are one of the most fun things
Speaker 1: to work for, So I want an entire suite of function.
Speaker 1: But the pollinators give you the most bang for the
Speaker 1: buck right away. So just take the monarchs. So they
Speaker 1: need milk weaves. You need to have the milk weaves
Speaker 1: there so the caterpillars can have something to eat. But
Speaker 1: then you also need to have nectar plants, so things
Speaker 1: like blue missed flour which draws them in and they
Speaker 1: eat the nectar off. But and it's just beautiful. And
Speaker 1: so that information is very easy to find. There's people
Speaker 1: all over the country working on pollinator plants and so
Speaker 1: they will be I can guarantee a list for your area.
Speaker 1: These are the twenty pollinator species that work, and so
Speaker 1: then you just pick a mix of them and put
Speaker 1: them in your yard and hopefully your neighbors do the same.
Speaker 1: And then you can become these little way points with these,
Speaker 1: especially the migrating pollinators who need they need points. They
Speaker 1: need ways to get across the cities. And just from
Speaker 1: an experience standpoint, so this is one place. It's my
Speaker 1: favorite spot in the wild Flower Center. There's just a
Speaker 1: little spot, so there's a pathway heading down to the
Speaker 1: family garden. On either side of it, they've got planted
Speaker 1: blue miss flower, which attracts just clouds of butterflies in
Speaker 1: the fall. Because it's on either side of the path.
Speaker 1: What happens is they just get covered in them and
Speaker 1: then they fly across the path, and so it becomes
Speaker 1: this like you're going through a bridge until this natural
Speaker 1: area just with the living butterflies, and people just stop.
Speaker 1: It's a moment and they stop and they notice and
Speaker 1: they think, oh, we're in a natural place now. And
Speaker 1: so just that movement helps people feel like you're in
Speaker 1: a living system. Yeah, I know that that's beautiful. I
Speaker 1: remember my parents took us to San Francisco when I
Speaker 1: was a kid and going to like a butterfly garden.
Speaker 1: Just the joy of it is incredible. So they're gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of homeowners and and and people who
Speaker 1: are working in little gardens listening to this podcast and
Speaker 1: and we're wondering what are some small but critical things
Speaker 1: that that you can do to help facilitate growth and
Speaker 1: make your yard a better place for your plants. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, and if you're a gardener, you know this,
Speaker 1: But it all starts with the soil. So get your soil,
Speaker 1: seeing what condition it's in and what condition it depends
Speaker 1: on what you're trying to grow. And one thing that
Speaker 1: is pretty much never wrong is adding organic matter to
Speaker 1: the soil. So nice finished compost will help pretty much
Speaker 1: any soil because it does it does a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Having more organic matter in your soil will moderate, it
Speaker 1: will help your soil hold onto water better. You will
Speaker 1: also help you have better soil structures. You've got better
Speaker 1: you know those whole you want holes in your soil
Speaker 1: to have air in them. Um. It provides food for
Speaker 1: all those microbes and fungi and everything we're trying to
Speaker 1: grow in the soil. It's the base of that food chain.
Speaker 1: If you do nothing else, add a little bit of
Speaker 1: organic matter will help everything. And I'm kind of curious,
Speaker 1: aside from the butterflies, what are the other creatures that
Speaker 1: you want to see in your back here? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean you want to see bees. People are afraid
Speaker 1: of them, but you don't. As long as you don't
Speaker 1: mess with them, they tend to leave you alone. But
Speaker 1: they're nice to see. It's nice to have in your
Speaker 1: soil as nice if you've got some worms. In my
Speaker 1: view of health, the healthy backyard would have a wide
Speaker 1: variety of plants, so different types of plants. You want grasses,
Speaker 1: and you want flowers, and you want trees, big trees,
Speaker 1: little cheese. You want different ages. So if all of
Speaker 1: your trees are the same age, that's a problem because
Speaker 1: they're all going to die at the same time. So
Speaker 1: you need to have some younger ones coming up. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's just high diversity, high cover, not a lot of
Speaker 1: spaces between your plants, unless you're in the desert where
Speaker 1: you need big spaces. Most places you don't need the
Speaker 1: really wide spacing. You need more cover um and healthy soil.
Speaker 1: I love uh, you know. I feel like when we
Speaker 1: hear the word diversity, we often think of one thing.
Speaker 1: But the idea of like so much diversity living in
Speaker 1: your garden, living close together and it all helping one
Speaker 1: another is such a beautiful idea. It is, and I
Speaker 1: love seeing it. I mean, the great thing about working
Speaker 1: with natural systems is you really are a partner. You
Speaker 1: don't have to do everything. You just have to put
Speaker 1: the pieces in place and remove impediments and it will start,
Speaker 1: it will click on, and it'll start trying to become
Speaker 1: a healthy system, and that's fun to watch. Michelle, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being here. I feel like I've
Speaker 1: learned so much and and it's been wonderful to have
Speaker 1: you here. Thanks for having me so, guys, I've got
Speaker 1: a special treat for you today. I invited my producer, Molly,
Speaker 1: who's behind so much of the excellence of the show,
Speaker 1: to come in front of the mic and bring me
Speaker 1: a quiz, which I'm a little nervous about, but I'm
Speaker 1: excited to have you here. Molly. You should be anxious,
Speaker 1: you should be nervous. You should be excited too, though
Speaker 1: I did intentionally make this pretty difficult. So okay, man,
Speaker 1: go here's the game. It's called Friend or Foe. And
Speaker 1: what I'm going to do is I'm going to give
Speaker 1: you the name of a plant, insect, or animal species.
Speaker 1: And what I want you to do is I want
Speaker 1: you to tell me if it is a friend or
Speaker 1: a foe to your backyard. Are you ready? Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: do it all right. The first one is called passion vine.
Speaker 1: Passion vine, passion vine. I feel a little bit like
Speaker 1: I'm in the script's spelling bee right now. The word
Speaker 1: is passion vine. Yeah, I could you use in a
Speaker 1: sense for me or tell me that. Um, I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: a friend, you are correct. It is also known as
Speaker 1: passion flower or maypop, and it's called maypop because the
Speaker 1: fruit is actually hollow, so when you crush the fruit,
Speaker 1: it makes this popping sound. But what's really great about
Speaker 1: passion vine is it attracts hummingbirds, butterflies, bumble bees, and
Speaker 1: they're going to come in and help pollinate all the
Speaker 1: flowers and plants in your garden. Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: actually just pulled it up on Google and it's beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a really pretty flower. Yeah, it's like this very
Speaker 1: unusual kind of striking purple flower. Yeah. Yeah, I'll definitely
Speaker 1: look for it. Okay. Next one butterfly bush. Butterfly bush.
Speaker 1: So we had one of these in my house in Delaware.
Speaker 1: I feel like my mom ordered it from like a
Speaker 1: catalog or something, but I really hated it. Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I friend, you know what your childhood instincts were.
Speaker 1: Actually right, is a foe. It is an invasive species.
Speaker 1: It is a noxious weed, as some might call it.
Speaker 1: That's not great, all right. Next one tree of heaven.
Speaker 1: I feel like you're tricking me with all these like
Speaker 1: beautiful sounding names. It's really deceptive. I told you this
Speaker 1: was going to be hard. Tree of heaven. I'm gonna say, friend,
Speaker 1: you are incorrect. It is a foe. It is an
Speaker 1: invasive species that was brought over to North America in
Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds, and it's actually really known for just
Speaker 1: smelling horribly. It might also be known as its common name,
Speaker 1: the stinking sumac um. It's also known as the varnish
Speaker 1: tree and the stinking tree. But what's even worse is
Speaker 1: it actually secretes a chemical into the soil that just
Speaker 1: straight up poisons other plants. What what a misleading name?
Speaker 1: That's crazy? All right, next one, and I will give
Speaker 1: you a hint that this is a bird. It's called
Speaker 1: a European starling friend or foe. This one, I feel
Speaker 1: like is a famously invasive species like cane toads and
Speaker 1: cut zoo or whatever like. I feel like it's it's
Speaker 1: always on the list. You are correct. These birds are
Speaker 1: actually not supposed to be in the US at all,
Speaker 1: but now they have taken over in large flocks. They
Speaker 1: compete with other birds for nesting location, and their droppings
Speaker 1: are super problematic. Yeah, these aerial attacks, right, but they're
Speaker 1: droppings in particular can hinder soil growth because they're droppings
Speaker 1: can actually carry seeds of invasive species, and the droppings
Speaker 1: transmit disease. Even the National Audubon Society says, it's okay
Speaker 1: not to like this bird. Have to like this bird.
Speaker 1: This bird's kind of a jerk. Whole goal is to
Speaker 1: like make you appreciate birds. That's incredible, right, exactly, Okay,
Speaker 1: Next one slugs, Oh my nemesis, friend or foe. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say foe. So they're kind of both friend
Speaker 1: and foe. They eat a lot of dead plants, which
Speaker 1: is great, but they also eat a lot of your
Speaker 1: living plants as well, so that's not so great. Not
Speaker 1: to mention that they procreate at what I can only
Speaker 1: call an alarming rate. One slug can spawn nearly four
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty offspring in a single year. WHOA. But
Speaker 1: the other really important thing to know about these is,
Speaker 1: while I know a lot of people at home listening
Speaker 1: will want to find remedies to get rid of these
Speaker 1: slugs and kill them off in your backyards, they are
Speaker 1: an important part of the ecosystem. They're a food source
Speaker 1: for animals and birds, and like I said, they will
Speaker 1: actually help clean out some of this dead stuff on
Speaker 1: your backyard floor because they'll eat it. And while they
Speaker 1: are going to eat some of your living plants, it's
Speaker 1: sort of important to keep them. Is there any way
Speaker 1: to just get them to procreate less, like put fewer
Speaker 1: candle lights out? Like very like, I don't have that
Speaker 1: kind of insight right now. Okay. The last one is
Speaker 1: something that I know, like slucks, you've had some personal
Speaker 1: experience with, and it's possums. Yeah, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do about this possum and how to
Speaker 1: feel about it because it is so ugly and it's
Speaker 1: russell by our door and woken me up at like
Speaker 1: three in the morning. I mean, so ugly. It's cute too,
Speaker 1: I guess, but but but then I also saw it
Speaker 1: like scurry up the stairs, and I got really nervous.
Speaker 1: I am gonna say, friend, you are correct. While his
Speaker 1: presence may make you feel a little uncomfortable, mango um,
Speaker 1: he's actually a friend to your backyard. So possums will
Speaker 1: eat snails and slugs and other insects in your backyard,
Speaker 1: which is great and but if you're in a place
Speaker 1: like Brooklyn or New York, they'll even eat small rodents,
Speaker 1: according to the Humane Society, which I'm I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of because I have lived in a couple of
Speaker 1: New York apartments where we have had mouse issues, and
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest, I would have loved a pet possum.
Speaker 1: I loved that. Yeah, this is great. But you know
Speaker 1: they'll also come through and they'll kind of eat all
Speaker 1: the fallen fruits and vegetables from your backyard floor or
Speaker 1: garden floor too, so they'll keep things kind of tidy
Speaker 1: as well, which is super helpful. Yeah, so possums are friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see it in a completely different light now. Alright, man,
Speaker 1: that was friend or foe? How do you feel? I
Speaker 1: feel like you showed me a chart of all the
Speaker 1: like community helpers and and now I know who to
Speaker 1: be a little a are of and and and who
Speaker 1: I should be smiling at. I'm glad I could do
Speaker 1: that for you. Thanks much for coming to your molley.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. My pleasure anytime. And now for another
Speaker 1: trip to poetry corner. This poem is called an Apology
Speaker 1: to the Possum in My garden. I'm sorry that when
Speaker 1: I saw you, I screamed and shoot you away, But
Speaker 1: now that I know you feast on slugs, please help
Speaker 1: yourself to the buffet. Thank you humans growing stuff will
Speaker 1: be right back after a short break. As much as
Speaker 1: we've been at home, isolated for the past few months,
Speaker 1: it's strange also feel the strength of our communities. It
Speaker 1: makes me smile to think of the people who have
Speaker 1: been donating their time, their harvest, bringing groceries to the elderly,
Speaker 1: pulling together to create services for kids in need. I
Speaker 1: see it all over my neighborhood, all these volunteers, and
Speaker 1: it's inspiring. But it's fine to look at the backyard
Speaker 1: and think about all the symbiotic relationships out there too,
Speaker 1: How the participants in that little ecosystem need one another.
Speaker 1: Birds dispersing seeds so wildflowers can grow, geraniums warding off
Speaker 1: pest to help the other plants around them, all these
Speaker 1: things quietly helping one another out. On days when I'm
Speaker 1: overwhelmed by the outside world, it's nice to look at
Speaker 1: your garden and see all these things cooperating, realizing it's
Speaker 1: natural to help one another thrive, and to take some
Speaker 1: comfort in that. Speaking of comfort, someone who makes me
Speaker 1: feel better about the world right now is comedian, act
Speaker 1: and author Jim Gaffigan. You may know Jim from his
Speaker 1: weekly segments on CBS Sunday Morning, or from any of
Speaker 1: his numerous stand up specials, including his most recent The
Speaker 1: Pale Tourist, which is available for streaming now on Prime Video.
Speaker 1: Since March, Jim has really gotten into gardening, and it's impressive.
Speaker 1: He's built out a couple of gardens in his backyard
Speaker 1: and I want to call him up to ask him
Speaker 1: how he views his garden, what sort of natural relationships
Speaker 1: he's spotted out there, and what he finds inspiring about
Speaker 1: it all. Hey, Jim, how's it going? Who is this? Hey?
Speaker 1: How are you? Thank you for answering. I've been so
Speaker 1: comforted by some of the stuff you've been doing. I
Speaker 1: really love your family dinners that you've been putting on.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of your work. But I know
Speaker 1: you've been gardening in quarantine, and you know, I'm always
Speaker 1: curious about childhood memories. And I read somewhere that I
Speaker 1: think it's an eighth grader in India and you planted
Speaker 1: some corn and had a good experience with that. Can
Speaker 1: you can you tell me a little bit about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so interesting. So it was so long ago when
Speaker 1: I had done my first gardening experiment. It was summer
Speaker 1: after eighth grade, and my mom really enjoyed gardening, and
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking she's crazy. She goes out there
Speaker 1: for just hours noodling around. But I was kind of
Speaker 1: fascinated by the idea of growing something. I thought that
Speaker 1: was appealing, and so I was in eighth grade. We
Speaker 1: grew up on the shores of Lake Michigan in Indiana.
Speaker 1: I decided to just plant some popcorn seeds to see
Speaker 1: if they would work. I planted them in sand, essentially,
Speaker 1: but they grew and it sparked this fascination and I
Speaker 1: eventually had kind of a mini garden. But it was
Speaker 1: very much a lazy approach to gardening. Not not not
Speaker 1: that my enthusiasm wasn't there, but I didn't really embrace
Speaker 1: the research that was necessary. I mean, I planted popcorn
Speaker 1: in sand, which is you know, probably a red flag
Speaker 1: that I didn't but it was it was so strangely rewarding.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't that doesn't even feel like it should
Speaker 1: work right, like it feels like a miracle in itself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's you know, I mean the sand could support uh,
Speaker 1: you know, beach grass, so it's and corn is a grass,
Speaker 1: so I guess it's It's not the craziest thing, but
Speaker 1: um and it was something that, you know, so it
Speaker 1: built a bit of a memory that became a little
Speaker 1: bit of folklore and my family. I'm the youngest of
Speaker 1: six kids, so crazy Jimmy grows growesome corn and sand.
Speaker 1: And so I did have this almost this belief that
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a farmer. It was something that
Speaker 1: I liked, the independence II you know, and that's what
Speaker 1: brought me back to it during the pandemic was you know,
Speaker 1: there's some some element of gardening that and farming that
Speaker 1: seems you have some element of control. It's very similar
Speaker 1: to stand up comedy. Like farmers are very similar two comedians.
Speaker 1: They have no control. They attempt to control it. It's
Speaker 1: an insane pursuit. And uh so there is something about
Speaker 1: the gardening exercise that is very solitary that reminds me
Speaker 1: of stand up is gardening has it become a habit
Speaker 1: for you? Is what is your routine? Like I, you know,
Speaker 1: I came upon it uh in a very unplanned way.
Speaker 1: We had been in the pandemic in our apartment in
Speaker 1: New York City for you know, from March to the
Speaker 1: end of May, you know, not leaving our apartments. And
Speaker 1: then I decided to rent a house outside of New
Speaker 1: York City for my kids because we had to get outside.
Speaker 1: And so we rented a place so that they could
Speaker 1: run around, and there were garden beds there from the owner.
Speaker 1: And so initially it was just this exercise, Well, it
Speaker 1: would be fun for I've got you know, kids eight
Speaker 1: nine and eleven and fourteen and sixteen, so it'll be
Speaker 1: great for some of the kids to see something grow.
Speaker 1: And so we got some tomato plants and we planted
Speaker 1: some corn, and my eldest planet some watermelon, not realizing
Speaker 1: that was too late for the watermelon. But it was
Speaker 1: one of those things where I thought maybe I could
Speaker 1: bring the kids over and they would be interested. But
Speaker 1: my kids had had no interest whatsoever. But what what
Speaker 1: I did learn was that and maybe it's a result
Speaker 1: of after this really intensive quarantine with my family, the
Speaker 1: allure of this time, this solitary time outside tending to
Speaker 1: these plants, you know, pouring water on mud and turning
Speaker 1: into something was incredibly rewarding. I would wake up. I
Speaker 1: found myself waking up early so that I could water
Speaker 1: before it would get hot. And um, it was it
Speaker 1: was really Yeah, it ended up being such a rewarding thing,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was you know, I think my
Speaker 1: wife was kind of like, good, he's not here too.
Speaker 1: So it was. And I know that, you know, gardening
Speaker 1: during the pandemic was was very common. You know, some
Speaker 1: people you know baked, some people you know worked out,
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: make sour dough bread. So I did the garden. I
Speaker 1: mean that that is the thing about all this, right,
Speaker 1: being outside is a rewarding. But but also this reminder
Speaker 1: that like going to a nursery is really fun, and
Speaker 1: like forcing my kids to go on that walk, look
Speaker 1: at plants and explore it is something I didn't expect
Speaker 1: to get joy from. Yeah, absolutely, it is. It's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to articulate, right because it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm also I should say that I'm a gardener that
Speaker 1: does that enjoys growing things that have a functional purpose,
Speaker 1: Like when I encounter friends that are like I'm growing
Speaker 1: these flowers I'm like, that's weird. I mean, it's not weird.
Speaker 1: It's not end garden for you. So next year if
Speaker 1: we had this conversation because I tried to do sunflowers
Speaker 1: like three times, not realizing that rabbits love sunflowers and dear,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter how large they are. The
Speaker 1: deal eat anything and everything. You know, it's so fascinating
Speaker 1: because it's doing the garden. Not only was it it
Speaker 1: was probably you know, beneficial to my mental well being
Speaker 1: and there was a meditative quality to it. But I
Speaker 1: think it changed my diet for me because I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I grew this zucchini. I would never eat a zucchini otherwise,
Speaker 1: but since I grew it, we gotta figure out how
Speaker 1: to eat this. And I think it's there's also something
Speaker 1: really social about a garden, like you have this overabundance
Speaker 1: of eggplants and zucchini, so and it prompts you to
Speaker 1: be generous with those things. In some ways, you're like
Speaker 1: just trying to get rid of them. So we rented
Speaker 1: this house that they had a long crew. But I
Speaker 1: would go out there and I'd be like, do you
Speaker 1: guys want these eggplants? And uh, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: then they became friends of mine. They're like, well, this
Speaker 1: guy offered me food. But I also thought it was
Speaker 1: fascinating how the things that were easy to grow, we're
Speaker 1: less likely to be something I'd want to consume. Like
Speaker 1: the eggplants and the zucchini's were like the FoST things
Speaker 1: come out where they were edible, and I was like, what,
Speaker 1: I gotta grow some cheeseburgers here. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to get some of this stuff. I'm curious. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about about all the wild life? Do you
Speaker 1: look out there and and you're sort of amazed by it?
Speaker 1: Are you just annoyed by it? And what are you
Speaker 1: observing in your backyard? Oh, it's it's so fascinating, right,
Speaker 1: It's just I mean, we're not that far from New
Speaker 1: York City, but it is it's I'm observing, you know,
Speaker 1: the you know, the circle of life, you know, stuff
Speaker 1: going on where there's there's little critters everywhere, and there's
Speaker 1: I don't know that I feel like there's a thousand rabbits,
Speaker 1: you know, and in the front there's some I think
Speaker 1: it's fast sinating how the rabbits they do that freezing thing.
Speaker 1: Where you'll you'll be walking up and my eleven year
Speaker 1: old daughter just goes crazy for animals, and the rabbits
Speaker 1: will do that pause where they freeze, thinking you won't
Speaker 1: see them or something. It's a very strange tactic. You
Speaker 1: almost imagine that among rabbits. They're like if you see
Speaker 1: a human, just play debt, you know, or they they
Speaker 1: have some approach similar to how we react or supposed
Speaker 1: to react when we see a bear. But it is
Speaker 1: fascinating how truly beautiful the little critters are. And you know,
Speaker 1: even a fox. It's I don't know, maybe I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm turning into an old man in the pandemic, but
Speaker 1: I know it sounds corny or something, but but it's
Speaker 1: it's stunning to appreciate all these things and like to
Speaker 1: take the time to appreciate them too, even though they're
Speaker 1: irritating as well, right, like like you have to be
Speaker 1: irritated by the bunnies, yeah, and and but like the
Speaker 1: bunnies or the fox there, it's weird because they're living outside,
Speaker 1: but they look like they just had their hair done
Speaker 1: during me Like it's like that fox, you know, that
Speaker 1: box is going to a hairdresser. It's like there's the fox,
Speaker 1: like the tail. You're like, come on, you're too effect
Speaker 1: me to believe you live in a hole. You live
Speaker 1: in a hole in your tail looks like that, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's got to be conditioner or something that
Speaker 1: you're using. You know. I was wondering, was it just
Speaker 1: like muscle memory from eighth grade that you're gardening with?
Speaker 1: But clearly you're like investigating YouTube and diving into things
Speaker 1: like what are some of the things that you geek
Speaker 1: out over? I geeked out over, uh, you know how
Speaker 1: my wife would pretend to be impressed or you know,
Speaker 1: I would post on social media like what my harvest was.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I would post because we're in essentially quarantine,
Speaker 1: and I would occasionally go to a carding store, but
Speaker 1: I would ask for feedback online from people. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is this what do I do wrong? Here? And there's
Speaker 1: a there's a resourcefulness and a generosity from other gardeners.
Speaker 1: They're like, you know what, put that on a shelf
Speaker 1: for a week, It'll be fine, you know. And some
Speaker 1: of this stuff I feel like maybe I knew or
Speaker 1: I would hear my mom talk about it. But I've
Speaker 1: been just thinking of like jokes about being lazy for
Speaker 1: the past thirty years, so I haven't remembered it, but
Speaker 1: I geek out about how it's all connected. How you know.
Speaker 1: It's like if you get ladybugs, they'll deal with the
Speaker 1: avids and you know, uh, and some of it I
Speaker 1: haven't implemented, but like the you plant things near each
Speaker 1: other to help protect them. How people will plant. But
Speaker 1: there's there's so much to know, uh that it's it's
Speaker 1: really fun. But I'm still at the point where I
Speaker 1: will plant things in my herb garden. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't even know what that is. And someone are coming
Speaker 1: to go, you're growing mint, and I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: am growing mint. It's like I didn't know or and
Speaker 1: it's not like I cook a lot, so people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're growing basil. I want to make my own pesto,
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, I can make pesto from that.
Speaker 1: It's really dumb. I actually saw online that you didn't
Speaker 1: just stick to those raised beds. You actually expanded and
Speaker 1: create a second garden in a corner of the back yard.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, how is gardening They're different from gardening
Speaker 1: in those raised beds. Well, it is a dramatic difference
Speaker 1: in that the gardening beds that I inherited from the homeowner, uh,
Speaker 1: they had those drip coils, they had they were raised
Speaker 1: beds that had great soil. So that soil was pretty
Speaker 1: crummy soil. So it was there was a process of
Speaker 1: trying to fix the soil. And again I'm not an
Speaker 1: expert on it, so I would try and do things,
Speaker 1: and then I would go off and decide to I
Speaker 1: would read about something like all right, I'll put hay
Speaker 1: down there or something that will retain some of the
Speaker 1: moisture in there. And then so it was totally improvising
Speaker 1: the whole way. But it was it was completely different
Speaker 1: because I also, um, I had done this clearing, and
Speaker 1: so I was growing stuff and then I think someone
Speaker 1: said to me, oh, you're growing it near a pine tree,
Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, and they're like, well, that's
Speaker 1: a pretty that makes the soil acidic. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that means, you know. So
Speaker 1: there's so many puzzles in the equation, right, There's so many.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, I can't chop down that tree, you know.
Speaker 1: But well, and then I was like, what grows around
Speaker 1: pine trees? Does anything? Yeah? Well what did grow? There
Speaker 1: was pumpkins that bloomed but didn't fruit. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's a result of me starting pumpkins too late,
Speaker 1: which is very likely, or pumpkins can grow in acidic
Speaker 1: so well. I know that peppers didn't work, and I
Speaker 1: know that beans didn't work in the acidic soil. I
Speaker 1: mean I was going through this exercise earlier of trying
Speaker 1: to figure out like where in the high school hierarchy,
Speaker 1: like various things in the backyards set who are the athletes? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say tomatoes. They're like the stars of all gardens.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's the functionality of them
Speaker 1: that everyone likes them. Everyone likes tomatoes, whether it be
Speaker 1: in a salad or in a marine era. But they're
Speaker 1: also pretty. But I just feel like there's so much
Speaker 1: They get so much attention, where as kale is like
Speaker 1: so easy to grow. No one really wants it. It's
Speaker 1: just it's like you're You're like, we can mix it
Speaker 1: into a salad. It's it's essentially an herb or a
Speaker 1: weed like kale, you know, was declassified from weed to
Speaker 1: edible it feels like in the last decade. And then
Speaker 1: I would say that there's just and then there's the
Speaker 1: there's the frequent friends, you know, like that you spent
Speaker 1: a lot of time with, which are the beans. And
Speaker 1: then there's like I feel as though beats and carrots
Speaker 1: are you know, those are the friends that you hung
Speaker 1: around with maybe once or twice. Like I feel as
Speaker 1: though there's something about the reveal of a beat or
Speaker 1: a carrot that is it's very deceptive. I guess it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like that old visual of
Speaker 1: a man sees the back of a beautiful with long
Speaker 1: flowing hair and then as they get up, the woman
Speaker 1: turns and she's, you know, ninety years old. It's a
Speaker 1: little bit like that. I mean that probably sounds horrible,
Speaker 1: but like where you you see this huge, bushy carrot
Speaker 1: plant and you pull it out and it's just this stubby,
Speaker 1: tiny carrot or it's deformed. I don't know what I'm
Speaker 1: doing with, Like carrots are way too hard, Like carrots
Speaker 1: should be much easier to grow. It's like you're just
Speaker 1: gonna give us one, you know, whereas peppers or like
Speaker 1: an apple tree, you're like, you know, like apples are
Speaker 1: It almost feels kind of silly how many apples, and
Speaker 1: apple Tree provides like you're just like, that's that's not necessary,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? It's just we're not
Speaker 1: gonna eat this many apples, all right, Mr apple Tree,
Speaker 1: Like just settle down. This episode is also a lot
Speaker 1: about the relationships that are going on in your backyard
Speaker 1: between like the flora and fauna and and and the
Speaker 1: eCos them back there, and we're kind of curious what
Speaker 1: analogy would you draw to all the layers and relationships
Speaker 1: within your own garden. Wow. I think there's something really
Speaker 1: fascinating about the fence around the garden because it, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's a pretty white fence around these raised beds.
Speaker 1: It feels very it's necessary the the animals would eat
Speaker 1: the vegetables and stuff like that. But there is part
Speaker 1: of me that's like, well that's not fair, right. It's
Speaker 1: like it's a little cruel for the rabbits to be
Speaker 1: able to look in and go cheese. You know, there's
Speaker 1: food right in there, and there's plenty of food everywhere,
Speaker 1: so there is I guess I feel a sense of
Speaker 1: almost guilt at times because I know that you know,
Speaker 1: I'm relieved that this plastic owl will somehow stop a
Speaker 1: bird from right when the tomatoes ripe enough, it'll stop
Speaker 1: a bird from pecking at the tomato. But there is
Speaker 1: part of me it's like, well, yeah, they I could
Speaker 1: give them some of them. I mean, yeah, completely. So
Speaker 1: I guess one of the questions we're wondering about is
Speaker 1: when you look out in the back like, what really
Speaker 1: inspires you most in the backyard undergarden. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can even put put to words of what it's.
Speaker 1: I think it's the silence or the absence of our world.
Speaker 1: How you can get away from the chaos of the world.
Speaker 1: And that occurs when I'm noodling around the garden. It's
Speaker 1: probably what I imagine people that run long distance and there,
Speaker 1: like I look at joggers that aren't listening to anything.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's crazy, you know, But that's what I
Speaker 1: experience in that quiet time in the garden. It's it's
Speaker 1: I guess peace. Yeah. I like going out to the
Speaker 1: garden because then there are these times when there's going
Speaker 1: to be a surprise. There's you know that garden. You
Speaker 1: know that pepper bloom could have turned into a little
Speaker 1: bit of a pepper at this point, or uh, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I can harvest the cucumber this time. Do you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because you know what there is
Speaker 1: also about gardening is that there's something optimistic about a garden.
Speaker 1: And we live in this with a certain level of cynicism.
Speaker 1: I think the old me before I garden would have
Speaker 1: been like, okay, you know, and there is the reality
Speaker 1: is is you can go to a farmer's market and
Speaker 1: get better vegetables than you're going to attempt to grow,
Speaker 1: and the financial resources will be you know, if you
Speaker 1: weigh out time value of money, it's there's no comparison.
Speaker 1: So there is something creative and optimistic about a garden. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I found there's like pure optimism right, like
Speaker 1: that you plant these seeds and expect them to grow
Speaker 1: and whatever. But but I've also been thinking a lot
Speaker 1: about if more people garden, will this be sort of
Speaker 1: a more caring world? Just this whole idea of like
Speaker 1: if you're constantly paying attention to plants and their needs
Speaker 1: and like you make a practice of that, like will
Speaker 1: that actually affect a whole generation of people? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: you also think of as we've become more and more modern,
Speaker 1: have we lost sight of some of these lessons that
Speaker 1: we learn by realizing the different elements of how things
Speaker 1: work in nature, And that I'm not saying I understand it,
Speaker 1: but you're like, oh, you know what, I guess we
Speaker 1: do need. Not that I have anything against ladybugs, but
Speaker 1: ladybugs get rid of the a fits and and those
Speaker 1: birds are actually good because they're protecting the plants, but
Speaker 1: they get to eat some of them and so. And
Speaker 1: I do also think that the first hand experience with composting,
Speaker 1: which again the old man would have been like like
Speaker 1: my last year, my wife had a compost on our
Speaker 1: roof with my kids, and I remember I never went
Speaker 1: up and saw it. I remembering that's great, honey, great
Speaker 1: doing the composting, And that first hand experience with composting.
Speaker 1: When you witness, you know, quality soil being created, it
Speaker 1: changes things, right, you have an understanding and when you're
Speaker 1: growing things, you you appreciate the importance of quality soil.
Speaker 1: So it all kind of feeds into things. Not that
Speaker 1: you know, like if I'm on vacation or like we're
Speaker 1: ever going to be able to do that again, but
Speaker 1: if I'm in a certain place I'm not looking at
Speaker 1: the sho is decent soil, but you're mindful of Oh,
Speaker 1: this would be good, a good area to grow something. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on this program. We
Speaker 1: really really appreciate your time. Thanks so much, it was
Speaker 1: so fun. Welcome to Pollination Station. So I learned earlier
Speaker 1: from Molly that despite the deceptive marketing behind butterfly bushes,
Speaker 1: they actually do very little to bring butterflies to your yard.
Speaker 1: So I decided I needed a quick lesson on how
Speaker 1: to encourage pollinators to come to the garden. Pollinators are
Speaker 1: obviously important because they encourage reproduction and plants. Plus, over
Speaker 1: the food we consume, it's actually distributed by these helpful friends.
Speaker 1: Here are four tricks to bring pollinators to your yard.
Speaker 1: Plant native plants. This sounds obvious, but growing more native
Speaker 1: plants is a must do. Over time, pollinators have co
Speaker 1: evolved alongside native plants, so your job is to continue
Speaker 1: that chain and not disruptive. And if you keep native
Speaker 1: plants growing, it won't be long before you have bees
Speaker 1: and hummingbirds showing up at the party too. Garden a rainbow.
Speaker 1: Everyone wants a beautiful, colorful garden. That's full of flowers, right, Well,
Speaker 1: it turns out so do pollinators, especially bees. Planting different
Speaker 1: colored flowers attracts bees to your garden, and once they're there,
Speaker 1: they will get to work. Throw some herbs in there.
Speaker 1: Planting a herb garden may seem like a no brainer
Speaker 1: to give an herbaceous lift to your dinners, but it's
Speaker 1: also an easy way to attract bumble bees. And while
Speaker 1: basil and rosemary are helpful in getting more pollinators over,
Speaker 1: they're non native, so supplement them with lots of native buddies.
Speaker 1: Put in a bird bath. People don't often think about it,
Speaker 1: but bird bats are a super helpful way to keep
Speaker 1: a water source close by. You can also create a
Speaker 1: basin for rain, which will attract butterflies and birds, and
Speaker 1: that'll keep your pollination station up and running. That's it
Speaker 1: for today's episode. Don't forget whether you're a beginner like me,
Speaker 1: a pro trying something new, or someone in between enjoying
Speaker 1: your backyard garden, they are incredible resources waiting for you
Speaker 1: on the Miracle Grow website. Next time on our show,
Speaker 1: we'll be diving into the world of garden fitness, talking
Speaker 1: to experts on how to take advantage and burn some calories,
Speaker 1: all while tending to your plants. If you like what
Speaker 1: you heard, don't forget to rain and review a show
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcast. Also, we want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: What are your inspiring plant stories, relatable struggles or growing questions.
Speaker 1: Tag us in your post or tweet using the hashtag
Speaker 1: Humans Growing Stuff, and don't be surprised if you hear
Speaker 1: your story featured on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff
Speaker 1: is a collaboration from I Heart Radio and your friends
Speaker 1: at Miracle Grow. Our show was written and produced by
Speaker 1: Molly Sosha and me Mongy Chatigler in partnership with Ryan Ovadia,
Speaker 1: Daniel Ainsworth, Hayley Ericsson, and Garrett Shannon of Banter Until
Speaker 1: Next Time. Thanks so much for listening.