WEBVTT - Pay Dirt! Elon's Pay Package, X's Payments Plan 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:15.640 Hey, guys, welcome, Welcome to the Tesla shareholder meeting. And 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.520 I just want to start up by saying, hot, damn, 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:26.360 I love you guys. Yeah, we have the most awesome 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.840 shareholder base. I mean, it's just incredible. Any public company, 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:30.600 it's incredible. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:30.920 Wow. 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.519 Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.800 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:42.919 controlled by one man. 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.960 Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.720 Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate, he says. 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.319 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:52.760 be different. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:53.800 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:56.560 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:56.960 on him. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.800 Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.120 Anything he does is fascinating to people. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.160 Welcome to Elon Am Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:21.240 It's Tuesday, June eighteenth. I'm your host, David Popadopoulos. This week, 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:25.560 we've got money on our minds, specifically Elon's victory. His 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.880 pay package of some fifty billion dollars was approved by 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.600 Tesla's shareholders last week. We'll dig into what that does 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.640 and doesn't mean for his fortunes and for the company, 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:40.399 plus imagine if X became the new Venmo. Friend of 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.080 the show, Kurt Wagner has a scoop on Elon's plans 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.240 to morph x into a payments platform and some early 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.240 steps the company has taken. And we'll also dig into 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.480 another ex development, the disappearance of users liked posts on 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.800 the platform and what's behind it. To talk about all 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.160 things Tesla, we have our expert muscologists, Max Chapkin, BusinessWeek 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:04.680 senior reporter, he Loo Max, Hot, damn. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:05.400 I love you guys. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.520 You know you beat me to that. So I was 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.240 gonna say that here at the end I should clearly 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.760 I shouldn't be at the beginning you said, hot damn. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.280 You love us all, and we all love you back. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.800 Dana Hull, our Elon Musk correspondent, Hello, Dana. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:20.000 Awesome to be here. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.080 And we have Jeff Feely, who covers Delaware courts for 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:27.280 us here at Bloomberg. Hello Jeff Mooring. Later on the 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.120 show to talk Ax, we'll have Kurt on and we're 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.560 gonna have a special guest, Max Reid, who writes the 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.959 Read Max newsletter and his covered tech for many years. Okay, Dana, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.359 So the shareholder vote or votes. There were actually multiple votes, 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.000 but the biggest one on Elon's pay package took place 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.320 last week. He won. What was the margin of the vote. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.919 Was it similar to his victory way back when when 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.040 this thing was approved in eighteen? Big or smaller? What 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:55.720 did it look like? 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.680 It was roughly the same. Seventy two of voting shareholders 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:04.600 vote to reratify Musk's twenty eighteen pay package. And what 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.560 was super interesting was that going into the shareholder meeting 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.840 like the day before, I thought the vote was very close. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.800 I mean, Tesla had been running this very aggressive campaign 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.080 to engage retail shareholders. All of these people like Tesla, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.800 Boomer Mama and others were like urging everyone to vote. 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.000 There was this huge, huge get out the vote effort. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.880 Optimists was urging people to vote, and the sense was 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:31.120 that they didn't have the institutional shareholders. But then on Wednesday, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.960 Elon Musk, who has a penchant for front running, basically 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.320 ran the big revealed He posted on Twitter that the 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.760 vote that he was winning by a wide margin. And 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.000 we came to learn after the fact that Vanguard, the 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.240 largest shareholder in the company after Elon himself voted yes. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.000 For the pay package, and that was a bit of 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.520 a surprise because they were a no in twenty eighteen. 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.400 So Max, I guess I wonder if at some level 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.400 it shows that his get out the vote campaign was affected. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.520 Yeah, Danna says, And this is for a company that is, 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.480 you know, sort of famously against spending money on marketing 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.960 and pr and on on these kinds of things. They 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.040 went all out on this, on this effort, So in 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.000 other words, spending it seemed more energy and even maybe 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.240 more thought and time and so on into marketing. Elon Musk, 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:22.760 as a guy worth really. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.880 Wanted that money. I guess that included, of course, the 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.320 slightly strong arm tactics of calling up Tesla employees who 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.760 owned the stock and urging them to vote. You know, 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.080 he was pretty pumped up about winning this vote. You 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.479 guys heard at the outset his greeting the assembly meeting there. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.680 We have another clip of him here talking about where 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:44.039 he sees the company and it's valuation going. 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.039 I think, just based on vehicle autonomy, we can we 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.520 can ten x one ten x the value of the company. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.719 I believe that's what will happen, and it's just what 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.719 what do you know? It's it's four twenty pm. Just 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:58.440 noticed that. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.119 I assume those pauses there are for the bong hits. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.359 I feel like I get it in contact high, you know, 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:06.080 listening to. 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:07.160 Him a little bit as well. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.400 Uh, you know, we talk a lot about on this 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.800 podcast about how, you know, there's sort of what Elon 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:15.880 says and then how he says it. And he's saying 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.560 pretty much the same things he's been saying for a 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.919 long time, although the mood was you know, even loopier, 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.880 even more sort of ebuliant. 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.920 Did I say that right than usual? 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.240 And and you know, full on loopy and and you know, 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.800 investors historically have kind of responded to that if if 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:35.960 Elon must seems like he's in a good mood, even 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:40.280 if he's making weed jokes and awkwardly pausing and using 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.960 a weird voice to say hot, damn, I love you guys, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:44.560 investors are sort of okay with it. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.600 Yeah, Dan. At that point, the stock actually did pop 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.360 both that day and the next day, So even though 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.120 it was sort of expected, I guess it was a 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.480 bit of a reassurance for those. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.800 Tesla has always struggled with key man risk, and the 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.839 key man risk in this case, was that if the 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.240 package didn't pass, that Elon was gonna get pissed off 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.719 and quit and walk away and take his like AI 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:10.000 and robotics toys elsewhere. So it was like reassuring to 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:13.440 investors to sort of see him in this happy, expansive, 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.120 dopamine fueled kind of mood, you know, talking about not 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.640 just like the next chapter of Tesla's history, but he 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.440 claimed that they are writing a new book. And then 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.800 he threw out like all kinds of crazy numbers about 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.360 how the valuation is just gonna skyrocket. I mean, they're 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.000 gonna ten x, they're gonna see two hundred to three 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.920 hundred percent year over year growth, and the energy storage 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.839 they've got, the cyber trucks, they're going to optimize optimists. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.719 And then he thinks that it's possible for Tesla to 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:48.440 achieve evaluation ten times that of the most valuable company today, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.200 which would be a valuation of thirty three trillion. So, 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.120 you know, we talk about Elon's moods. He was expansive Elon, 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.240 And you know, these shareholder meetings are like religious revival events. 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:03.000 I mean, people are so grateful to have a ticket 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:04.800 to be able to say that they were in the 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.240 room with this guy. But this doesn't mean that it's over. Like, yes, 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.720 the shareholders voted to reratify the package, but the judge 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.280 in Delaware still has to sort of sign off on that, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:15.920 and that is far from certain. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.400 Yeah, so Jeff, give us the next legal steps here. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:25.000 Okay, So these guys have tried to do basically a 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:30.360 redo over the original package to fix the flaws that 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:35.240 Judge McCormick pointed out in January. Nobody's tried to ever 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:37.720 try to do this before. The section of the law 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.120 they're using, lots of people say was set up for 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:47.360 technical fixes, not substantive changes like this. So Judge Katie 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:51.280 that's her local nickname, is not required to take notice 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.120 at all of the shareholder vote. She has to find 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:57.920 a lot to issue a final ruling in the case, 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.760 and that includes deciding how much the winning shareholders lawyers 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.080 get in legal fees. There's a hearing July eighth to 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.720 hear arguments on the legal fees. And I guess on 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.600 Tesla's argument that they can, you know, now, they should 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.720 be able to just reinstate its package because they've fixed 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.480 all the you know, they've plugged all the holes the 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.440 general belief in the bar around here is that this 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.320 is not going to affect her ruling. She's ruled on 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.360 the package, she's found the flaws. They really didn't address 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.960 the flaws. They made some weak attempts at trying to 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.760 remove the conflicts, but having one person serve as the 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.720 special committee is not what you would call best practices 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.000 in good governance world. 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.840 Okay, And that's the thing, But Jeff, one of her concerns, 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.880 if I'm remembering correctly, was that they kind of smooth 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.959 played this one over on the shareholders and who weren't 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.160 quite aware of what they were actually voting for when 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.080 they voted for his pay package. And certainly, I would 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.040 think no one can make that argument now. I think 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.400 everyone was eminently aware of what they were voting for. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:13.520 Yes, although they basically they being TESLA, were not very 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.800 transparent about the idea that this didn't have any binding 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.520 effect on the judge. Okay, They led folks to believe 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.040 that if you vote yes, that Elon's going to get 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:24.800 his dough, and that ain't. 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:30.360 So okay, right true, So they voted yes, he doesn't 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.080 get his dough. Yet they're waiting for the judge now, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.520 to respond. Now, Dan, what happens if the judge says 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:43.000 no yet again, is there any pay package in effect 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.040 that all for him ers are essentially going unpaid in 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.559 the horror of it, you know, a guy with whatever 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:50.840 one hundred and fifty billion dollars or so going unpaid? 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.040 But what is the current pay package in place? 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.160 So there's a couple avenues. I mean, Tesla will undoubtedly 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.760 appeal if the judge says no, screw you. I'm not 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.320 taking this like redo vote into account. My opinion from 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:05.600 January still stands. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.560 She's definitely saying screw you if she votes now. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.400 Yeah, Tesla can appeal to the Delaware Supreme Court. They so, 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.280 you know, keep your eye out for a filing on 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.559 that after they have this hearing in July. But now 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:21.720 Tesla has moved its legal incorporation to Texas. I mean, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.760 that's the other significant vote that happened at the shareholder meeting. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:25.600 They are now. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:29.200 Domiciled in Texas. It's where their headquarters has been for 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.280 a couple of years now. But now they have another 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.200 avenue because they could I mean, Jeff correct me if 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.000 I'm wrong here, but they could do yet another revote 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.600 in Texas and then only Texas law would apply. So 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.600 that's sort of the endgame here. I mean, they're doing 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.560 an end run around the Delaware court system. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.480 This is going to go on and on though, because 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.800 you have, first of all, I'm pretty sure that Texas 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:57.319 has to respect Judge McCormick's ruling, or it should respect. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:58.880 Judge McCormick's ruling, so they have to do a new 0:10:58.920 --> 0:10:59.600 pay package. 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.640 Meanwhile, you've got all of these lawsuits that were filed, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.800 you know, just under the wire, to all these shareholders 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.120 who want to have cases in Delaware court. So this 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.480 Delaware is going to have something to say about Elon 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:11.280 Musk for some time. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:11.880 Yeah. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.040 Well, first of all, let's remember if Texas's business courts 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.480 aren't even set up yet, they will not be set 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:19.719 up until September. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.040 What does that mean Texas has no business courts at all? 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:23.200 Right? 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.240 No, No, they have no court equivalent to Delaware's chancery court, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:32.240 which is the primary premier venue for corporate litigation in 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.120 the country. They are trying to set up a competing 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:40.319 court to the Delaware court, and their legislature enabled it 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.960 in the last session, but they have not been able 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:47.040 to hire judges, they don't have stuff codified. It's a 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.240 we're a fair distance away from anybody being able to 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:54.400 navigate a lawsuit in those particular courts. So that's number one. 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.560 Number two, we live in a rule of law the 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.599 last time I checked here in country, and being a 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.760 disappointed litigant and being unhappy about a court system is 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:12.240 one thing, But you know, switching your state of incorporation 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.240 because a judge ruled against you on one thing is 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.200 so Elon, it's almost hilarious, Danna. 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.280 Before we move on, though, let me ask you this 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.520 last question. Out of this shareholder vote or the shareholder meeting, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:30.920 were there any other votes of import that our listeners 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:31.559 should know about. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.240 Yeah, So two directors were up for re election, James 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.480 Murdoch and Kimball Musk. They've both been on the board 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.439 for a while. Kimball is obviously Elon's younger brother. Both 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.040 of them them were re elected to the board with 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.040 like pretty flying colors, So no surprises there. And I 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.160 think it was just like a chance for Elon to 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.680 take this big victory lap and for the retail shareholders 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.240 who really came all out and got engaged in an 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:56.800 active in. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:57.280 A way that you. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.480 I mean, frankly, retail shold shareholders typically do not vote 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.920 in proxy fights. I mean, every once in a while 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.160 you might have like a big proxy battle where there's 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.680 like an activist shareholder trying to take over a stake 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.280 in the company, But in general, like people own shares 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.280 via their like mutual funds or in their retirement counts, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.880 and they're not like active participant in I guess what 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.320 you could call shareholder democracy. But this was a real 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.400 I mean, this was a real sense that they were. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:24.359 And so going. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:28.160 Forward, I'm curious to see how active these shareholders will 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.000 be and if they will there will ever come a 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.160 time where they're actually like opposed to what the company 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:32.559 is saying. 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.880 Hey, Jeff Feely, before we let you go, sir, any 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:37.599 final words of wisdom. 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.120 Well, I would not go to Vegas and put money 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.000 down on Judge Katie allowing them to do a. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.439 Right Well, I do gamble a fair amounts, hold on, 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.000 do not go to Vegas and bet again. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.319 I mean, you know, I'd put some money on the Eagles, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:56.360 but not. 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.440 Don't you know I could talk about the Mets on 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.920 this show and mock Max about the Mets. We don't 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:04.079 talk about the Philadelphia Eagles on the show. Jeff Feely, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.920 thank you very much for joining us. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:07.880 All right, guys, see you take. 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.200 Care, Dana. Thank you for joining us. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:11.400 Always the pleasure. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.200 All right Now, Max, Chafkin and I are joined by 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:24.000 Kurt Wagner, who covers tech for us here at Bloomberg. Hello, Kurt, hey, Hey, 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:29.120 and Max read the author of the Read Max Substack newsletter. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:30.720 Welcome Max, Thanks for having me. 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:32.760 Okay, so for the purposes of this, so we don't 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.760 get confused here, we're gonna go with Max, Reid and Chafkin. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.880 Does that work? By the way, Max is a fantastic name. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.200 I mean, if we if our if we had another child, 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:45.720 there was a boy we were gonna name h Max, 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.800 just Maximilian Papadopolis. The kid would have achieved incredible things. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.120 Kurt Wagner, let's start with you and your and your 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.520 scoop this morning that you head out with your colleague 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.280 Aisha Counts, Elon and co. There X are advancing on 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:05.280 their plan for their Venmo like payments feature. We've known 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.360 about this for a while, but you've encountered a bunch 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.160 of new information. Tell us what you learned. 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.840 Yeah, we submitted public records requests in all fifty states 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.800 because what X is doing right now is they're trying 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.280 to get payments licenses in these states, and so we 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.400 just you know, sent the regulatory agencies are r foyas 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.200 and in eleven cases actually we got documents back and 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.680 it gave us a nice glimpse into what it is 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.360 they're doing. So we've got some business plans, financial statements 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.040 or charts, things like that that we're helpful not just 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.080 to paint a picture of what they're doing on payments, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:40.720 but also just give us a bit of a sneak 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.120 peek into X more broadly, because it is a private 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.280 company now and we don't really get those updates like 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.680 we used to when Twitter was public. But the short 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.280 version is they are trying to build a payments like 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.840 feature where you would, you know, log into a dashboard 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.040 on x dot com or the app, you could pay people, 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.960 you could pay businesses, you could store money. The fees 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.680 would be very minimal, so it would it wouldn't be 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.600 you know, passed on the business aspects of this wouldn't 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.480 be passed on to consumers, and you know, as you mentioned, David, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.600 like this this plays into this everything app idea that 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.320 Elon has talked about. You can't be in everything app 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.000 if you can't use it for finances and money, and 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.720 so they are very much in the process of trying 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.080 to make this a reality. And even though Elon's sort 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.840 of hinted at it and talked about it, I think 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:32.360 these documents confirmed a lot of the progress and ambitions that. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.560 They have now Max read the Everything app and in 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.880 particular leaning into the financial parts of it, something that 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:43.320 Elon has really kind of obsessed about for a long 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.400 long time, you know, way back to his prior to 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:47.800 his acquisition of Twitter. 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.400 Right, yeah, I mean twenty five years after he sold 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.440 his first company, Zip to Go Zip two in the nineties, 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:59.440 he wanted to launch an online bank, which he purchased 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:04.280 the RX dot com for his URL in particular, maybe 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.040 even more than the business plan has been a real 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.960 white whale for him. But I mean, this is a 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.160 sort of famous story. He launched X around the same 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.080 time that Peter Teal and company launched what was going 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.240 to become PayPal Confinity. They were in this really cutthroat 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.480 competition and eventually merged and Teal famously pushed Musk out 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.240 PayPal became, you know, the leader at the time of 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:33.159 payment apps, and Musk, I mean, depending depending on how 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.120 you look at at Musk has perhaps been stewing for 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.800 decades hoping to get peg into the world of online payments. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.680 He bought back the x dot com URL from PayPal 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.320 twenty seventeen, I think, and you know, this was one 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:47.840 of the first things he was talking about when he 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.080 was buying X. I think even before he bought X, 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:54.880 he was talking up we Chat, the Chinese chat app. 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.560 A app that's as good as we Chat in China, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.479 and like in China you like live on we Chat. Basically, 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.359 it's like yeah, everyone, everyone's like, like, you live on 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.760 we Chat, you do payments, you do everything. It's like, yep, 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.600 it's great. Basically we chats kick ass, and we don't 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.720 have anything like we Chat outside of Taina. So I 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.600 was like, my idea would be, like, how about if 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:16.800 we just copy we Chat. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:23.119 Hey, Honestly, the assent is more interesting in that clip 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:24.720 than the substance. 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:25.320 You know. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.439 One thing that Max left out of that story is 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.840 that and I learned this when I was reporting my 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.359 book about TIL. Some people think that the final straw 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.960 for Elon Musk getting pushed out was an attempt to 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.919 rename Among the things he did and PayPal was kind 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:41.800 of a mess back then before before he got pushed out, 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.320 was to try to rename PayPal, which at that point 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:47.280 had a brand and a decent following and so on. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:49.919 He tried to rename it X so so kind of 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:54.840 exactly the same move we saw with Twitter when he 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:56.040 did the renaming there. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:57.800 He just loves, just loves that letter. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:04.040 So, Kurt, best case scenario for Elon and the X crew, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.320 when is this feature being rolled out? What's their timeline? Like, 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.360 I know that Elon's always wildly optimistic on his timelines, 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:13.399 but what are they talking about? 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.560 Yeah, I mean they wanted it or want it by 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.600 the end of this year. They had said in some 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.199 of the emails we read that they were hoping to 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.960 do someonce they had the majority of state. You know, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.800 they had payments licenses in the majority of states. They 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.840 now have twenty eight, so technically they do have more 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.200 than half. My guess is they would want more than 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.120 you know, much closer to fifty so that people are 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:37.520 able to actually send money. 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.639 But could they do They absolutely need all fifty to 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.400 start or could you start with forty two. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.159 You could start with forty two, but then you know 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.760 there are people in eight states who can't participate, and 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:49.320 it kind of. 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.120 What they are going to be losing out on. Jesus. 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.480 Well, yeah, but you know, imagine you have a friend 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.160 there you want to send money to and you can't. 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.760 It sort of limits the the you know, user experience, 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:01.639 and I I think that's really the key, right, Like 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.480 building this getting the approval is sort of the easy 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.080 part in my opinion. I actually think the hard part 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.359 here is going to be convincing people to use X 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.679 in a way that they have never used it before. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:14.000 Right. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.199 Not only are there a bunch of existing competitors like 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.200 Venmo out there that have market share, but it's a 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.760 user behavior issue, Like how many people are going to 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:25.480 suddenly say, yes, this app that I've used to you know, 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.000 dunk on politicians or get my news for the past 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.840 twenty years is suddenly going to be my bank. Like 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:36.199 that's just not a logical jump for most people. And 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.959 I think that's going to be the bigger hurdle than 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:39.320 actually building the product. 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.680 Quick shraphole here, which of the I want to ask 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.720 the two max is and Kurt, if you indeed, would 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.320 you know, try this out, assuming, by the way, I'm 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.000 going to throw in one hundred dollars for X. I'm 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:51.560 going to give you all three hundred dollars because I'm 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:52.960