WEBVTT - 3. The Shallow End, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. Lying to Hawaii and United seven forty seven can

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<v Speaker 1>be a real adventure. Whatever your pleasure, you will find

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<v Speaker 1>it on United seven forty seven Our Friendship to Hawaii.

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<v Speaker 1>It was nineteen sixty nine. Fred was living on the

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<v Speaker 1>houseboat working at Point Magoo and he was going back

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<v Speaker 1>and forth to Hawaii Jean's route, Jean, who would go

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<v Speaker 1>on to become Fred's first wife. That's how we actually

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<v Speaker 1>met is I was coming back from Hawaii to California

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<v Speaker 1>on a red eye and she was the one of

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<v Speaker 1>the flight attendants and I noticed her light off because

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<v Speaker 1>she was just a knock very beautiful woman. She was

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<v Speaker 1>tall and slender with dark hair, and Ali McGraw type

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<v Speaker 1>is how she sometimes described herself. She reminded Fred of

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<v Speaker 1>Mindy from Mork and Mindy, and interestingly enounced halfway through

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<v Speaker 1>there was a guy who fell down in the aisle

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<v Speaker 1>and they thought there wasn't going to be an emergency.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remembered him as a drunk in a bar

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<v Speaker 1>where we were getting ready to fly, and I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure that guy's just drunk. Let me, let's check.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Gine and I had our first argument because

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<v Speaker 1>she wanted up feed him black coffee, and I said, look,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want a sleepy, quiet guy or do you

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<v Speaker 1>want a wide away drunk. You know this is this

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<v Speaker 1>is a no brainer. So anyhow, that was our first

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<v Speaker 1>fuss when we when we got ready to get off

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<v Speaker 1>the plane, I said, you know, I know we didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get off to a really great start, but could I

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<v Speaker 1>get shure an address you on phone number? I'd like

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<v Speaker 1>to see you. You don't want to get back. Jean

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<v Speaker 1>had grown up Baptist on a working cattle ranch in Evergreen, Colorado,

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<v Speaker 1>the eldest of three sisters. Describing herself later, she'd list

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<v Speaker 1>her hobbies as piano, horseback riding, boating, and swimming. She

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<v Speaker 1>loved the mountains and the beach. After graduating from Colorado

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<v Speaker 1>State in nineteen sixty four with a degree in music education,

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<v Speaker 1>Jean decided to become a flight attendant. When Jean met Fred,

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<v Speaker 1>she was living in an apartment near Lax with her

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<v Speaker 1>friend and fellow flight attendant, Barbara Warner. Barbara said Fred

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<v Speaker 1>and Jean's relationship was bumpy from the start. Here she

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<v Speaker 1>is talking to an investigator, but this moves throughout MATTHI

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<v Speaker 1>because of their schedule. He was out of sea some

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<v Speaker 1>time that she was gone some time, but after weathering

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<v Speaker 1>a pregnancy scare, they decided to make it official. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we were both about twenty seven or twenty eight

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<v Speaker 1>at the time, and Fred, I think you ever get married?

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<v Speaker 1>She thought this might be my last him. They canna,

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<v Speaker 1>but believed it because they were tim many men who

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<v Speaker 1>liked her. She really thought he was a very nice person. Again, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he had never been married and had good background, all

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<v Speaker 1>of those nice things. They had potential, and he wasn't dumb,

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<v Speaker 1>and neither was Jeane. They had compatible intellectual time. They're too.

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<v Speaker 1>Fred and Jean got married in nineteen seventy at a

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<v Speaker 1>Baptist church in Denver and had the reception at her

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<v Speaker 1>parents country club. They were an impressive young couple destined

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<v Speaker 1>for a glamorous, adventurous life. By nineteen seventy four, they

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<v Speaker 1>had two adorable little girls and had settled in Malibu,

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<v Speaker 1>which was already thanks to Malibu Barbie and the Chevy,

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<v Speaker 1>Malibu becoming something more than just a semi rural beach

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<v Speaker 1>town at the western edge of la It wasn't so

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<v Speaker 1>much a place as it was a massed projection, a

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<v Speaker 1>collective dream Anyone who'd known them back in Evergreen or

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<v Speaker 1>Centerville would have thought they'd made it. They owned a

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<v Speaker 1>Jaguar then two. Life was good, or at least it

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<v Speaker 1>looked good from the outside. I'm Dana Goodyear And this

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<v Speaker 1>is Lost Hills, Episode three, The Shallow End, Part one

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<v Speaker 1>and Doug drown Family friend Candy Henman had called the

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<v Speaker 1>Santa Barbar Sheriff's apartment. She told them they really needed

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<v Speaker 1>to look into what happened to Jean. She thought Fred's

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<v Speaker 1>first marriage might shed some light on the deaths of

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<v Speaker 1>Verna and Doug. There were tensions in Fred and Jean's

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<v Speaker 1>marriage right from the beginning. Jean was ebulliant, extroverted, and fiery.

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<v Speaker 1>Fred was more withdrawn, controlled, exacting a slow burn. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Patti lytell a friend from Malibu. She's being interviewed

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<v Speaker 1>by an investigator after the drownings. She's on break from

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<v Speaker 1>her job at a bank in Santa Monica. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>the nice home. They had very good jobs, making good money,

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<v Speaker 1>so very very well off, and they were both attracted people.

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<v Speaker 1>Fred is an attracted very good to me. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>looking at them at that time, you know they've seen

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<v Speaker 1>like they had everything going for them, but something was wrong. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean Fred and Jean had bought a house on

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<v Speaker 1>a street called Calpine, in a quiet neighborhood across PC

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<v Speaker 1>from Point Doom. It was so sweet that no one

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<v Speaker 1>will ever believe me. There was a pool, and then

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<v Speaker 1>later on when we went to some friends place and

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<v Speaker 1>they had a hot tub in the Jeane and I

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<v Speaker 1>looked at each other after that evening and said, we

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<v Speaker 1>need a hot tub. So then some other friends were

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<v Speaker 1>He was a shipbuilder, and so long story short, he

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<v Speaker 1>and I started building hot tubs, and the one for

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<v Speaker 1>our house was the first one. Fred loved it there.

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<v Speaker 1>You could hear the distant sound of the ocean and

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<v Speaker 1>the occasional owl when we first got there, and the

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<v Speaker 1>gene and I want to be the first time we were. Boy.

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<v Speaker 1>This is really dark, you know, because there's no street

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<v Speaker 1>lights or anything, so when you turn out the lights

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<v Speaker 1>in your house, it's dark. Fred remembers this as a

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<v Speaker 1>relatively good period in the marriage, and I think Jean

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<v Speaker 1>was basically quite happy. She enjoyed the house, she enjoyed

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<v Speaker 1>the kids. I was probably second or third, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>basically we weren't they unhappy. They were a two career

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<v Speaker 1>couple trying to figure out middle class domestic bliss when

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<v Speaker 1>all the rules were changing, women's lib had happened, and

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<v Speaker 1>the sexual Revolution. They were supposed to be free, fulfilled,

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<v Speaker 1>self actualized, but they both traveled a lot for work

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<v Speaker 1>and they had young kids. So did they fight. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they fought. The issues were, you know, primarily the three

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<v Speaker 1>big were sick. He wanted more, financeers, she wanted more

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, basically, how to deal with the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Fred was an involved father, incredibly so by the standards

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<v Speaker 1>of the day. He worried about the potty training, what

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<v Speaker 1>the kids ate, getting them to school on time. When

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<v Speaker 1>Jean was flying, he'd packed the girls lunches and make

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<v Speaker 1>them dinner. Maybe it's the double standard, or maybe he

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<v Speaker 1>was an extra amazing dad. One of his friends even

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<v Speaker 1>said later quote he was a mother to those girls.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen seventy five, Fred was working for the Navy

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<v Speaker 1>on Midway atoll Way out in the Pacific with a

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<v Speaker 1>guy named Dennis O'Gorman. He spoke to investigators it was

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<v Speaker 1>really evident that he and Jean weren't getting along. O'Gorman

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<v Speaker 1>recalled one particularly cold moment about a month into the

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<v Speaker 1>time on Midway, Jean had been writing to Fred and

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<v Speaker 1>not hearing back. One day, she called extremely upset. She

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know if he's alive or dead, or when he

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<v Speaker 1>was coming home or a damn thing. The next morning,

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<v Speaker 1>he's got this big grin on his face and he's

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<v Speaker 1>got this letter about this thick and he says that

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<v Speaker 1>Continent one wants to hear from me. She'll hear from me,

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<v Speaker 1>all right. So he opened it up and it's what

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<v Speaker 1>they call sit reps, and all they are is their

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<v Speaker 1>navy messages, and it says recommend send money, recommend sending food,

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<v Speaker 1>recommend send you know whatever. So he just packaged up

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<v Speaker 1>all his copies that he had of these things for

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<v Speaker 1>the last thirty days and he wanted him up sent

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<v Speaker 1>them off to her. And he thought that was really funny.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was kind of pathetic, you know. So that,

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<v Speaker 1>along with other little things he said, I began to

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<v Speaker 1>realize that he and his first wife are not getting

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<v Speaker 1>along very well. Okay. When Jean's sister Carol visited them,

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<v Speaker 1>she found the atmosphere stifling. She thought Fred was sullen

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<v Speaker 1>and surly, even anti shut down. She hadn't seen him

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<v Speaker 1>in eight months, and he didn't even greet her with hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was alarmed to hear the way he belittle

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<v Speaker 1>Jean addressing her as wife. Carol even asked Fred had

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<v Speaker 1>he forgotten her sister's name. But things for Jean and

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<v Speaker 1>Fred were about to go from bad to worse because

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<v Speaker 1>there was a secret in their marriage and Jeanne had

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<v Speaker 1>started spreading it all over town. There might be at

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<v Speaker 1>least a partial explanation for Fred's incredibly awkward behavior deep

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<v Speaker 1>embarrassment because Jeanne was pretty uninhibited when it came to

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<v Speaker 1>expressing her discontent, and her problem with the sex wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>his insatiable appetite. I noticed that it was described in

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<v Speaker 1>the report here that Jane called Fred the mint a

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<v Speaker 1>man because he couldn't last very long. Yeah, she did.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Barbara Warner again, Jean's old roommate, speaking to

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<v Speaker 1>the investigator. Barbara also mentioned Fred and Jean's tussles of

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<v Speaker 1>her finances. Jean was used to making her own money

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<v Speaker 1>and spending it how. She pleased extremely highly his money,

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<v Speaker 1>at least she thought so, because she wanted something she

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<v Speaker 1>charged his guy for later, She's never played on her

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<v Speaker 1>bills or anything, because she just wouldn't had charged bought

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<v Speaker 1>that saint she got to cash perfecting. At some point,

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<v Speaker 1>Jean started to outright hate her husband Fred. Talking about him,

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<v Speaker 1>she'd shut her and say, I can't stand him. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Candy Henman. There. There was this part of her

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<v Speaker 1>that when she wasn't around Fred and she wasn't thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about Fred, that was very vibrant and very very energetic

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<v Speaker 1>and positive. And then she would revert into the other

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<v Speaker 1>kind of personality if she was around him or talking

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<v Speaker 1>about him, then she would become intimidated. Candy felt very

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<v Speaker 1>strongly that Jean wasn't safe with Fred. I kept telling

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<v Speaker 1>her she needed to get out of that marriage. In

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy, California became the country's first no fault divorce state,

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<v Speaker 1>and soon everyone was doing it. Within a year, for

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<v Speaker 1>every one hundred couples that got married in La County,

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<v Speaker 1>seventy nine were filing for divorce. In Malibu. There was

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<v Speaker 1>also another factor splitting up families, maybe some wife swapping.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Michelle Williams, a friend of the Railers, and

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<v Speaker 1>to be clear, she wanted me to know that she

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<v Speaker 1>was not part of the swinging scene. But there was

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<v Speaker 1>a group who, like me, had never slept with anybody

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<v Speaker 1>else before we got married. It was just you just

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do it. And so there was a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a freedom for some people to you know, get

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<v Speaker 1>intimate with other people. It was open marriage, and it

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<v Speaker 1>ended in a couple of divorces. There was this one

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<v Speaker 1>book everyone was reading about experimenting outside marriage and how

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<v Speaker 1>fulfilling it could be. Carl Rogers, noted psychologist, came out

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<v Speaker 1>with a book called Becoming Partners where he described what

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<v Speaker 1>open marriage would look like, and everybody was reading that book. Yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 1>that was a pretty popular book. Jean, unhappy and frustrated,

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<v Speaker 1>had also begun to look outside her marriage for fulfillment.

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<v Speaker 1>She told friends about a relationship she had at work

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<v Speaker 1>with an inflight supervisor on her Honolulu root and then

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<v Speaker 1>without meaning to, she fell in love with Fred's sailing buddy, Dick.

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<v Speaker 1>Fell though in Dick, the same person who a few

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<v Speaker 1>years later would help return Lady the Beagle to the

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<v Speaker 1>family after her adventure on Bird Rock that same Dick,

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<v Speaker 1>Jean and Fred spent a lot of time with Dick

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<v Speaker 1>and his wife Linda, as well as with another couple,

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<v Speaker 1>Bill and Donna. Fairfield. It was always the six of

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<v Speaker 1>them sailing together and getting naked in the hot tub.

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<v Speaker 1>Somehow along the way, Jean and Dick started to confide

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<v Speaker 1>in each other. Here's Jean's friend Barbara Warner again. He

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<v Speaker 1>was disenchanted at the time, and they had the trint

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<v Speaker 1>for a long time. Both the couple of Linda Dick

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<v Speaker 1>had the friends and Fred they had sailed together and

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<v Speaker 1>it was one of the friendship things that had started

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<v Speaker 1>out as a friendship affair. As she was having trouble,

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<v Speaker 1>she would talk to Dick and then maybe camp more

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<v Speaker 1>than friend or would they meet at would they most

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<v Speaker 1>count Jean would check in under her own name to

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<v Speaker 1>take advantage of her United Airlines discount, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>not the only example of her indiscretion. This is Mike Killeen,

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<v Speaker 1>a friend of Fred's, talking to an investigator. Jean let

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<v Speaker 1>everybody know that Fred had premature jaculations in the embarrassing

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<v Speaker 1>Jean let everybody know that she was having affairs. My god,

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that she was having an affair with this

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<v Speaker 1>Dick guy. I knew that, unlike her fling at work,

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<v Speaker 1>Jean's relationship with Dick was a serious affair. It went

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<v Speaker 1>on for several years, and as she grew more consumed

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<v Speaker 1>with it, she told more and more people. The more

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<v Speaker 1>she hated Fred, the more she wanted to be with Dick,

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<v Speaker 1>and the deeper she fell in love with Dick, the

0:16:00.356 --> 0:16:05.276
<v Speaker 1>more she wanted to extricate herself from Fred. To this day,

0:16:05.276 --> 0:16:09.996
<v Speaker 1>though Fred denies that he knew about their relationship, I'll

0:16:09.996 --> 0:16:15.716
<v Speaker 1>never know about Jean. You know, there was no outward signs,

0:16:15.876 --> 0:16:20.596
<v Speaker 1>there was no discussions, there was no anything that would

0:16:20.676 --> 0:16:24.396
<v Speaker 1>lead me to believe that. And he insists he didn't

0:16:24.476 --> 0:16:28.956
<v Speaker 1>cheat either, And I know for myself that I didn't.

0:16:30.916 --> 0:16:34.356
<v Speaker 1>I was quite happy and wanted to settle down with

0:16:34.436 --> 0:16:38.796
<v Speaker 1>one person. But one person who almost certainly did know

0:16:38.996 --> 0:16:44.036
<v Speaker 1>about Jean's affair with Deck was Verna Johnson. Before she

0:16:44.156 --> 0:16:48.476
<v Speaker 1>was Fred's second wife, Verna was one of Jean's best friends.

0:16:48.476 --> 0:16:50.796
<v Speaker 1>She taught at the preschool at the Methodist church where

0:16:50.836 --> 0:16:53.796
<v Speaker 1>Jean and Fred sent Heidi, and she often looked after

0:16:53.836 --> 0:16:57.596
<v Speaker 1>the girls when Jean was flying. Jean and Verna were

0:16:57.636 --> 0:17:05.036
<v Speaker 1>extremely tight, sharing secrets, gossip fears. Verna knew all Jeans start.

0:17:05.796 --> 0:17:09.116
<v Speaker 1>Verna's sister, Julianne, recalled spending a day at the amusement

0:17:09.196 --> 0:17:12.676
<v Speaker 1>park Magic Mountain with Verna and Jean and all the kids.

0:17:13.476 --> 0:17:17.316
<v Speaker 1>Julianne told an investigator that Jean ignored the children. She

0:17:17.476 --> 0:17:22.356
<v Speaker 1>was just totally preoccupied with dishing about Fred. She didn't

0:17:22.356 --> 0:17:26.956
<v Speaker 1>say really nice things about him, and she talked like

0:17:28.716 --> 0:17:32.916
<v Speaker 1>a gossips talking. She would say one thing and then

0:17:32.916 --> 0:17:34.476
<v Speaker 1>turn around and say, well, I told so and so

0:17:34.556 --> 0:17:37.316
<v Speaker 1>of his part, and she would clerk. She would talk

0:17:37.356 --> 0:17:40.716
<v Speaker 1>about a lot of other people, meaning she was saying

0:17:40.716 --> 0:17:42.716
<v Speaker 1>something to burn him. She said, well, I told so

0:17:42.876 --> 0:17:46.596
<v Speaker 1>and so the same thing about Fred. Warner was a

0:17:46.636 --> 0:17:52.076
<v Speaker 1>confidant of Jeans to listen to her private blues about

0:17:52.116 --> 0:17:55.836
<v Speaker 1>what a rat Fred was. Candy Henman and a lot

0:17:55.876 --> 0:17:59.116
<v Speaker 1>of Jean's friends knew Fred kept a handgun in the house.

0:17:59.876 --> 0:18:02.436
<v Speaker 1>I asked him about that. It was a three fifty

0:18:02.436 --> 0:18:04.796
<v Speaker 1>seven Smith and Wesson his parents had given him for

0:18:04.876 --> 0:18:07.876
<v Speaker 1>Christmas when he was at Purdue. He kept it loaded

0:18:08.156 --> 0:18:11.356
<v Speaker 1>in the drawer of his nightstand. We were in the

0:18:11.356 --> 0:18:15.316
<v Speaker 1>middle of nowhere, and it would do something. Hadn't see

0:18:15.356 --> 0:18:18.556
<v Speaker 1>something happened. He told me the gun was there for

0:18:18.676 --> 0:18:22.596
<v Speaker 1>Jean's protection as much as anything else. But the number

0:18:22.636 --> 0:18:28.356
<v Speaker 1>one person, Jean wanted protection from was Fred. Patty Lytell

0:18:28.436 --> 0:18:33.036
<v Speaker 1>remembered something even more unsettling. She told detectives that Jean

0:18:33.156 --> 0:18:36.556
<v Speaker 1>had confided in her an verna that Fred was threatening her,

0:18:37.716 --> 0:18:42.916
<v Speaker 1>saying if he ever caught her cheating, he'd kill her.

0:18:55.316 --> 0:18:58.076
<v Speaker 1>There was one particularly bad night in the hot tub

0:18:58.076 --> 0:19:03.356
<v Speaker 1>at Calpine that everyone remembers. It was the Sextet, the Railers,

0:19:03.596 --> 0:19:09.396
<v Speaker 1>the Fairfields, the velf Owens naked. Of course, Jean, according

0:19:09.436 --> 0:19:11.916
<v Speaker 1>to others who were there, was a little drunk or

0:19:11.916 --> 0:19:14.516
<v Speaker 1>a little high, and she was getting a little loud.

0:19:15.316 --> 0:19:19.596
<v Speaker 1>It was obnoxious. This was an ongoing thing. Jeane would

0:19:19.596 --> 0:19:24.676
<v Speaker 1>get carried away. We would have wine with dinner, and

0:19:24.956 --> 0:19:27.356
<v Speaker 1>when we went to parties and things. I think that's

0:19:27.356 --> 0:19:31.236
<v Speaker 1>when she would get caught up in the in the

0:19:31.756 --> 0:19:35.436
<v Speaker 1>party atmosphere and sometimes overdo it. She was kind of

0:19:35.476 --> 0:19:39.276
<v Speaker 1>a lightweight when it came to alcohol and pot. I

0:19:41.196 --> 0:19:46.356
<v Speaker 1>was bigger. I had a better way of hanging on

0:19:46.396 --> 0:19:48.636
<v Speaker 1>to it and still, you know, be able to do

0:19:48.796 --> 0:19:54.436
<v Speaker 1>long division. So that was sort of the difference. On

0:19:54.556 --> 0:19:57.516
<v Speaker 1>the night in question, Jean drove head first into the

0:19:57.516 --> 0:20:01.556
<v Speaker 1>hot tub, where everyone else, including Dick, was already hanging out.

0:20:02.516 --> 0:20:06.876
<v Speaker 1>Fred was furious. He later wrote quote, I pulled her

0:20:06.956 --> 0:20:08.556
<v Speaker 1>up by her hair and told her to get a

0:20:08.556 --> 0:20:14.236
<v Speaker 1>hold of herself. When Fred's friend Mike Colleen, who wasn't there,

0:20:14.436 --> 0:20:19.356
<v Speaker 1>heard about the incident, he thought it sounded overblown. His

0:20:19.516 --> 0:20:24.756
<v Speaker 1>sympathies lay entirely with Fred. Must have been a situation

0:20:24.796 --> 0:20:28.036
<v Speaker 1>where Jeane was probably mounting off about one thing and

0:20:28.076 --> 0:20:31.196
<v Speaker 1>another and embarrassing everybody, and maybe Fred did something that

0:20:31.236 --> 0:20:36.316
<v Speaker 1>we all do occasionally, he overreacted. According to Bill Fairfield's

0:20:36.356 --> 0:20:39.636
<v Speaker 1>statement to detectives, everyone in the hot tub laughed about

0:20:39.716 --> 0:20:42.556
<v Speaker 1>the absurdity of Fred yankee Jean out of the water,

0:20:43.276 --> 0:20:46.796
<v Speaker 1>but this laughter probably did not include Jean. It became

0:20:46.836 --> 0:20:52.476
<v Speaker 1>another story she confided miserably to her friends. Years later,

0:20:52.556 --> 0:20:56.516
<v Speaker 1>after Verna's death, investigators interviewed Dick felt thown about Fred

0:20:56.516 --> 0:21:01.436
<v Speaker 1>and Jean, and Dick also took Fred's side, his sailing

0:21:01.476 --> 0:21:05.476
<v Speaker 1>buddy over his old lover. He mentioned that Fred and

0:21:05.556 --> 0:21:08.756
<v Speaker 1>Jean fought openly in public and that it seemed to

0:21:08.876 --> 0:21:18.876
<v Speaker 1>him Jean was the instigator. One day, according to a

0:21:18.876 --> 0:21:21.596
<v Speaker 1>flight attendant friend of Jeans, she showed up at work

0:21:21.636 --> 0:21:24.516
<v Speaker 1>in a state of distress. One incident, I remember the

0:21:24.716 --> 0:21:28.116
<v Speaker 1>strength she came to work with her start tied up

0:21:28.156 --> 0:21:31.276
<v Speaker 1>around her neck. She had the scarf from her uniform

0:21:31.356 --> 0:21:33.916
<v Speaker 1>tied around her neck and asked for permission to keep

0:21:33.956 --> 0:21:38.276
<v Speaker 1>wearing it throughout the flight because I was charge, you

0:21:38.276 --> 0:21:41.756
<v Speaker 1>don't mind and lend our Today I think I've kind

0:21:41.796 --> 0:21:45.916
<v Speaker 1>of said Widder tried to feel me and I said

0:21:45.916 --> 0:21:51.236
<v Speaker 1>water And she said she tried to joke, told the

0:21:51.356 --> 0:21:54.156
<v Speaker 1>stars down and did you call that pitting? There were

0:21:54.196 --> 0:21:57.476
<v Speaker 1>marks on her necks where she tried to choke her.

0:21:59.716 --> 0:22:03.356
<v Speaker 1>There's a feeling that I got from her that very up.

0:22:04.036 --> 0:22:22.116
<v Speaker 1>You know, we're not at the band to know. Fred

0:22:22.156 --> 0:22:25.596
<v Speaker 1>says this never happened, that he was never physical or

0:22:25.716 --> 0:22:29.316
<v Speaker 1>violent with Jean, but Jeane told friends she was scared

0:22:29.356 --> 0:22:32.276
<v Speaker 1>of him, so scared she was going to move Fred's

0:22:32.316 --> 0:22:38.876
<v Speaker 1>pistol over to Verna's house. Also, I guess things start

0:22:38.956 --> 0:22:42.436
<v Speaker 1>going down the hill to a point where you mentioned

0:22:42.476 --> 0:22:46.716
<v Speaker 1>that Jean had told you several times had threatened to

0:22:46.796 --> 0:22:50.036
<v Speaker 1>kill her. If you ever car fooling around. That's the

0:22:50.116 --> 0:22:54.916
<v Speaker 1>investigator questioning, Barbara Warner. You're good and I never heard

0:22:55.036 --> 0:22:58.396
<v Speaker 1>can't say that I only heard it true. Jena. Yeah,

0:22:59.076 --> 0:23:01.436
<v Speaker 1>Jane would say something I can't like that. I would

0:23:01.436 --> 0:23:07.036
<v Speaker 1>think good, but I think genuinely I remember her saying,

0:23:07.076 --> 0:23:09.756
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think he's capable of him to be

0:23:09.796 --> 0:23:12.716
<v Speaker 1>honest with you. I don't know. The Only thing I

0:23:12.716 --> 0:23:15.916
<v Speaker 1>can do is just knowing thread and knowing his great

0:23:15.996 --> 0:23:22.756
<v Speaker 1>pride is that his pride was hurt by possibly her.

0:23:24.436 --> 0:23:26.676
<v Speaker 1>I think its towards the end, she was getting so

0:23:26.796 --> 0:23:30.036
<v Speaker 1>fed up with it. Knowing teens, she probably would say,

0:23:30.676 --> 0:23:33.156
<v Speaker 1>I can't stand it. Another minute's getting out of here.

0:23:33.476 --> 0:23:35.916
<v Speaker 1>And it probably got to him after a while, and

0:23:36.036 --> 0:23:39.556
<v Speaker 1>he was outward. But he was a very virile type

0:23:39.716 --> 0:23:43.436
<v Speaker 1>macho man, and I don't think he really was, and

0:23:43.556 --> 0:23:46.676
<v Speaker 1>I think he probably drew this up to him and

0:23:46.756 --> 0:23:50.796
<v Speaker 1>it was tough on him to put it mildly. But

0:23:50.956 --> 0:23:56.156
<v Speaker 1>early summer nineteen seventy six, Jane was growing desperate. I

0:23:56.276 --> 0:23:58.516
<v Speaker 1>know she tried to get the two of them his

0:23:58.636 --> 0:24:02.436
<v Speaker 1>accountlings and he had refused to go. And then finally,

0:24:03.116 --> 0:24:07.916
<v Speaker 1>after she had thrested separation and divorced, she said, well, okay,

0:24:08.036 --> 0:24:11.396
<v Speaker 1>let's try it. Jean found a therapist and they went

0:24:11.436 --> 0:24:14.916
<v Speaker 1>a couple of times. It was a failure. The best

0:24:14.916 --> 0:24:17.076
<v Speaker 1>part about it, Fred says is that he and Jean

0:24:17.116 --> 0:24:20.956
<v Speaker 1>would get a baskin Robbins afterward, and I guess it

0:24:21.076 --> 0:24:23.556
<v Speaker 1>got so bad to a point that she said, I

0:24:23.636 --> 0:24:25.836
<v Speaker 1>don't no counseling in the world that's going to help

0:24:25.916 --> 0:24:30.876
<v Speaker 1>us beyond hope. Fred was desperate too. The Navy was

0:24:30.916 --> 0:24:33.556
<v Speaker 1>sending him back to Kauai that summer for an extended

0:24:33.636 --> 0:24:37.316
<v Speaker 1>stay at the Pacific Missile Test Facility. He didn't want

0:24:37.356 --> 0:24:39.996
<v Speaker 1>the marriage to end. He thought they could solvage it,

0:24:40.476 --> 0:24:45.116
<v Speaker 1>but Jean seemed past caring. Jean called a lawyer to

0:24:45.196 --> 0:24:50.756
<v Speaker 1>initiate the process of divorce. She was going to tell

0:24:50.836 --> 0:24:53.316
<v Speaker 1>him that he was going to be kicked out of

0:24:53.356 --> 0:24:56.476
<v Speaker 1>coul when he got home. By that point, by being

0:24:56.516 --> 0:24:58.396
<v Speaker 1>away and thinking and trying to get her head straight,

0:24:58.996 --> 0:25:02.716
<v Speaker 1>but she was waiting for him back. They had talked

0:25:02.916 --> 0:25:05.916
<v Speaker 1>and both of them to that they had a definite problem.

0:25:06.476 --> 0:25:08.956
<v Speaker 1>He was going to put her foot down and say

0:25:09.276 --> 0:25:15.076
<v Speaker 1>I've had him separate. Yeah. She's the kind of person

0:25:15.116 --> 0:25:19.236
<v Speaker 1>that when he got back from Hawaii in October, Jean

0:25:19.316 --> 0:25:24.316
<v Speaker 1>would finally end the marriage. Barbara has speculated many times

0:25:24.356 --> 0:25:27.236
<v Speaker 1>about what went on between Jean and Fred in that

0:25:27.276 --> 0:25:34.156
<v Speaker 1>fragile moment when he returned. You have heartal situation. What

0:25:34.356 --> 0:25:36.316
<v Speaker 1>exactly do you might do? But she may have been

0:25:36.436 --> 0:25:41.156
<v Speaker 1>so exasperated, it's so tired of SETI I'll tell you

0:25:41.156 --> 0:25:42.996
<v Speaker 1>what I have had him a fairy. I can't take

0:25:43.036 --> 0:25:45.876
<v Speaker 1>a spirit any longer. It maybe not realizing him. Why

0:25:45.956 --> 0:25:51.596
<v Speaker 1>don't he re love? Jean never did divorce Fred because

0:25:51.596 --> 0:25:59.596
<v Speaker 1>shortly after he got home, unexpectedly and inexplicably, she died.

0:26:06.356 --> 0:26:10.836
<v Speaker 1>Coming up on the next episode of Lost Tales, Jean's

0:26:10.876 --> 0:26:15.836
<v Speaker 1>funeral gets people talking. Everything around him seemed black, dark,

0:26:16.276 --> 0:26:20.636
<v Speaker 1>and his face, his look, his everything was just darkness.

0:26:21.356 --> 0:26:23.556
<v Speaker 1>And I knew without a doubt that he had done it.

0:26:24.276 --> 0:26:30.436
<v Speaker 1>He just looked wicked, an evil less dark face in

0:26:30.516 --> 0:26:33.876
<v Speaker 1>my face and coming over and being friendly and chatty,

0:26:33.956 --> 0:26:36.516
<v Speaker 1>and I was thinking, you're a murderer. Why are you

0:26:36.556 --> 0:26:41.076
<v Speaker 1>even talking to me? That's next in episode four, The

0:26:41.196 --> 0:26:48.636
<v Speaker 1>Shallow End, Part two. Lost Hills is written and reported

0:26:48.676 --> 0:26:52.156
<v Speaker 1>by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created by me and Ben

0:26:52.156 --> 0:26:57.476
<v Speaker 1>Adair and produced by Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe

0:26:57.516 --> 0:26:59.476
<v Speaker 1>to Pushkin Plas and you can hear the whole season

0:26:59.556 --> 0:27:02.516
<v Speaker 1>add free and get early access to the final two episodes.

0:27:02.956 --> 0:27:05.316
<v Speaker 1>Find Pushkin Plas on the Lost Hills show page in

0:27:05.396 --> 0:27:11.516
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm