1 00:00:14,996 --> 00:00:24,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Lying to Hawaii and United seven forty seven can 2 00:00:24,156 --> 00:00:27,996 Speaker 1: be a real adventure. Whatever your pleasure, you will find 3 00:00:28,036 --> 00:00:31,996 Speaker 1: it on United seven forty seven Our Friendship to Hawaii. 4 00:00:39,276 --> 00:00:42,116 Speaker 1: It was nineteen sixty nine. Fred was living on the 5 00:00:42,156 --> 00:00:45,316 Speaker 1: houseboat working at Point Magoo and he was going back 6 00:00:45,316 --> 00:00:50,316 Speaker 1: and forth to Hawaii Jean's route, Jean, who would go 7 00:00:50,356 --> 00:00:54,436 Speaker 1: on to become Fred's first wife. That's how we actually 8 00:00:54,476 --> 00:00:59,996 Speaker 1: met is I was coming back from Hawaii to California 9 00:01:00,076 --> 00:01:03,836 Speaker 1: on a red eye and she was the one of 10 00:01:03,876 --> 00:01:07,996 Speaker 1: the flight attendants and I noticed her light off because 11 00:01:08,036 --> 00:01:11,796 Speaker 1: she was just a knock very beautiful woman. She was 12 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:15,556 Speaker 1: tall and slender with dark hair, and Ali McGraw type 13 00:01:15,716 --> 00:01:19,156 Speaker 1: is how she sometimes described herself. She reminded Fred of 14 00:01:19,276 --> 00:01:25,516 Speaker 1: Mindy from Mork and Mindy, and interestingly enounced halfway through 15 00:01:25,676 --> 00:01:28,876 Speaker 1: there was a guy who fell down in the aisle 16 00:01:28,956 --> 00:01:31,556 Speaker 1: and they thought there wasn't going to be an emergency. 17 00:01:31,756 --> 00:01:33,956 Speaker 1: And I remembered him as a drunk in a bar 18 00:01:34,156 --> 00:01:37,156 Speaker 1: where we were getting ready to fly, and I said, 19 00:01:37,156 --> 00:01:39,796 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that guy's just drunk. Let me, let's check. 20 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:43,876 Speaker 1: And then Gine and I had our first argument because 21 00:01:43,876 --> 00:01:47,836 Speaker 1: she wanted up feed him black coffee, and I said, look, 22 00:01:48,796 --> 00:01:52,276 Speaker 1: do you want a sleepy, quiet guy or do you 23 00:01:52,276 --> 00:01:54,756 Speaker 1: want a wide away drunk. You know this is this 24 00:01:54,836 --> 00:01:59,236 Speaker 1: is a no brainer. So anyhow, that was our first 25 00:01:59,476 --> 00:02:02,716 Speaker 1: fuss when we when we got ready to get off 26 00:02:02,716 --> 00:02:04,916 Speaker 1: the plane, I said, you know, I know we didn't 27 00:02:04,956 --> 00:02:07,436 Speaker 1: get off to a really great start, but could I 28 00:02:07,476 --> 00:02:12,756 Speaker 1: get shure an address you on phone number? I'd like 29 00:02:12,796 --> 00:02:18,436 Speaker 1: to see you. You don't want to get back. Jean 30 00:02:18,556 --> 00:02:22,156 Speaker 1: had grown up Baptist on a working cattle ranch in Evergreen, Colorado, 31 00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:26,356 Speaker 1: the eldest of three sisters. Describing herself later, she'd list 32 00:02:26,396 --> 00:02:30,716 Speaker 1: her hobbies as piano, horseback riding, boating, and swimming. She 33 00:02:30,876 --> 00:02:35,156 Speaker 1: loved the mountains and the beach. After graduating from Colorado 34 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:38,076 Speaker 1: State in nineteen sixty four with a degree in music education, 35 00:02:38,556 --> 00:02:43,076 Speaker 1: Jean decided to become a flight attendant. When Jean met Fred, 36 00:02:43,156 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 1: she was living in an apartment near Lax with her 37 00:02:45,756 --> 00:02:52,556 Speaker 1: friend and fellow flight attendant, Barbara Warner. Barbara said Fred 38 00:02:52,556 --> 00:02:56,196 Speaker 1: and Jean's relationship was bumpy from the start. Here she 39 00:02:56,316 --> 00:03:01,556 Speaker 1: is talking to an investigator, but this moves throughout MATTHI 40 00:03:02,996 --> 00:03:05,756 Speaker 1: because of their schedule. He was out of sea some 41 00:03:05,956 --> 00:03:09,716 Speaker 1: time that she was gone some time, but after weathering 42 00:03:09,716 --> 00:03:13,276 Speaker 1: a pregnancy scare, they decided to make it official. I 43 00:03:13,316 --> 00:03:17,236 Speaker 1: think we were both about twenty seven or twenty eight 44 00:03:17,236 --> 00:03:20,956 Speaker 1: at the time, and Fred, I think you ever get married? 45 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:24,436 Speaker 1: She thought this might be my last him. They canna, 46 00:03:24,436 --> 00:03:26,116 Speaker 1: but believed it because they were tim many men who 47 00:03:26,156 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 1: liked her. She really thought he was a very nice person. Again, Yeah, 48 00:03:30,516 --> 00:03:33,276 Speaker 1: he had never been married and had good background, all 49 00:03:33,316 --> 00:03:37,196 Speaker 1: of those nice things. They had potential, and he wasn't dumb, 50 00:03:37,196 --> 00:03:42,196 Speaker 1: and neither was Jeane. They had compatible intellectual time. They're too. 51 00:03:47,036 --> 00:03:49,716 Speaker 1: Fred and Jean got married in nineteen seventy at a 52 00:03:49,756 --> 00:03:52,676 Speaker 1: Baptist church in Denver and had the reception at her 53 00:03:52,676 --> 00:03:57,036 Speaker 1: parents country club. They were an impressive young couple destined 54 00:03:57,076 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 1: for a glamorous, adventurous life. By nineteen seventy four, they 55 00:04:01,236 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 1: had two adorable little girls and had settled in Malibu, 56 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:08,076 Speaker 1: which was already thanks to Malibu Barbie and the Chevy, 57 00:04:08,116 --> 00:04:11,716 Speaker 1: Malibu becoming something more than just a semi rural beach 58 00:04:11,756 --> 00:04:14,956 Speaker 1: town at the western edge of la It wasn't so 59 00:04:15,036 --> 00:04:18,236 Speaker 1: much a place as it was a massed projection, a 60 00:04:18,236 --> 00:04:22,356 Speaker 1: collective dream Anyone who'd known them back in Evergreen or 61 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:25,596 Speaker 1: Centerville would have thought they'd made it. They owned a 62 00:04:25,676 --> 00:04:31,556 Speaker 1: Jaguar then two. Life was good, or at least it 63 00:04:31,596 --> 00:04:44,876 Speaker 1: looked good from the outside. I'm Dana Goodyear And this 64 00:04:45,596 --> 00:05:16,516 Speaker 1: is Lost Hills, Episode three, The Shallow End, Part one 65 00:05:20,076 --> 00:05:23,556 Speaker 1: and Doug drown Family friend Candy Henman had called the 66 00:05:23,556 --> 00:05:27,276 Speaker 1: Santa Barbar Sheriff's apartment. She told them they really needed 67 00:05:27,276 --> 00:05:30,556 Speaker 1: to look into what happened to Jean. She thought Fred's 68 00:05:30,596 --> 00:05:33,196 Speaker 1: first marriage might shed some light on the deaths of 69 00:05:33,316 --> 00:05:36,876 Speaker 1: Verna and Doug. There were tensions in Fred and Jean's 70 00:05:36,916 --> 00:05:42,316 Speaker 1: marriage right from the beginning. Jean was ebulliant, extroverted, and fiery. 71 00:05:42,716 --> 00:05:48,516 Speaker 1: Fred was more withdrawn, controlled, exacting a slow burn. This 72 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:52,196 Speaker 1: is Patti lytell a friend from Malibu. She's being interviewed 73 00:05:52,196 --> 00:05:55,396 Speaker 1: by an investigator after the drownings. She's on break from 74 00:05:55,396 --> 00:05:58,436 Speaker 1: her job at a bank in Santa Monica. I mean 75 00:05:58,436 --> 00:06:03,836 Speaker 1: the nice home. They had very good jobs, making good money, 76 00:06:03,116 --> 00:06:07,316 Speaker 1: so very very well off, and they were both attracted people. 77 00:06:07,396 --> 00:06:13,836 Speaker 1: Fred is an attracted very good to me. You know, 78 00:06:13,876 --> 00:06:16,836 Speaker 1: looking at them at that time, you know they've seen 79 00:06:16,916 --> 00:06:21,596 Speaker 1: like they had everything going for them, but something was wrong. Yeah, 80 00:06:21,636 --> 00:06:24,516 Speaker 1: I mean Fred and Jean had bought a house on 81 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:28,196 Speaker 1: a street called Calpine, in a quiet neighborhood across PC 82 00:06:28,636 --> 00:06:32,516 Speaker 1: from Point Doom. It was so sweet that no one 83 00:06:32,516 --> 00:06:35,756 Speaker 1: will ever believe me. There was a pool, and then 84 00:06:35,876 --> 00:06:38,996 Speaker 1: later on when we went to some friends place and 85 00:06:39,036 --> 00:06:40,676 Speaker 1: they had a hot tub in the Jeane and I 86 00:06:40,716 --> 00:06:43,076 Speaker 1: looked at each other after that evening and said, we 87 00:06:43,156 --> 00:06:47,996 Speaker 1: need a hot tub. So then some other friends were 88 00:06:49,076 --> 00:06:54,476 Speaker 1: He was a shipbuilder, and so long story short, he 89 00:06:54,556 --> 00:06:57,916 Speaker 1: and I started building hot tubs, and the one for 90 00:06:58,156 --> 00:07:01,796 Speaker 1: our house was the first one. Fred loved it there. 91 00:07:02,396 --> 00:07:04,796 Speaker 1: You could hear the distant sound of the ocean and 92 00:07:04,956 --> 00:07:08,636 Speaker 1: the occasional owl when we first got there, and the 93 00:07:09,236 --> 00:07:12,116 Speaker 1: gene and I want to be the first time we were. Boy. 94 00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:15,636 Speaker 1: This is really dark, you know, because there's no street 95 00:07:15,676 --> 00:07:18,556 Speaker 1: lights or anything, so when you turn out the lights 96 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:22,516 Speaker 1: in your house, it's dark. Fred remembers this as a 97 00:07:22,556 --> 00:07:26,076 Speaker 1: relatively good period in the marriage, and I think Jean 98 00:07:26,316 --> 00:07:29,636 Speaker 1: was basically quite happy. She enjoyed the house, she enjoyed 99 00:07:29,636 --> 00:07:36,716 Speaker 1: the kids. I was probably second or third, but you know, 100 00:07:36,836 --> 00:07:41,356 Speaker 1: basically we weren't they unhappy. They were a two career 101 00:07:41,396 --> 00:07:44,996 Speaker 1: couple trying to figure out middle class domestic bliss when 102 00:07:45,036 --> 00:07:49,156 Speaker 1: all the rules were changing, women's lib had happened, and 103 00:07:49,276 --> 00:07:53,076 Speaker 1: the sexual Revolution. They were supposed to be free, fulfilled, 104 00:07:53,316 --> 00:07:57,476 Speaker 1: self actualized, but they both traveled a lot for work 105 00:07:57,836 --> 00:08:01,916 Speaker 1: and they had young kids. So did they fight. Yeah, 106 00:08:01,956 --> 00:08:08,716 Speaker 1: they fought. The issues were, you know, primarily the three 107 00:08:08,756 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 1: big were sick. He wanted more, financeers, she wanted more 108 00:08:15,756 --> 00:08:19,796 Speaker 1: and you know, basically, how to deal with the kids. 109 00:08:21,316 --> 00:08:24,556 Speaker 1: Fred was an involved father, incredibly so by the standards 110 00:08:24,556 --> 00:08:27,356 Speaker 1: of the day. He worried about the potty training, what 111 00:08:27,476 --> 00:08:30,516 Speaker 1: the kids ate, getting them to school on time. When 112 00:08:30,596 --> 00:08:33,196 Speaker 1: Jean was flying, he'd packed the girls lunches and make 113 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:37,436 Speaker 1: them dinner. Maybe it's the double standard, or maybe he 114 00:08:37,516 --> 00:08:40,716 Speaker 1: was an extra amazing dad. One of his friends even 115 00:08:40,756 --> 00:08:43,996 Speaker 1: said later quote he was a mother to those girls. 116 00:08:48,956 --> 00:08:51,596 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy five, Fred was working for the Navy 117 00:08:51,596 --> 00:08:54,436 Speaker 1: on Midway atoll Way out in the Pacific with a 118 00:08:54,436 --> 00:08:58,996 Speaker 1: guy named Dennis O'Gorman. He spoke to investigators it was 119 00:08:59,076 --> 00:09:02,996 Speaker 1: really evident that he and Jean weren't getting along. O'Gorman 120 00:09:03,076 --> 00:09:06,196 Speaker 1: recalled one particularly cold moment about a month into the 121 00:09:06,236 --> 00:09:09,596 Speaker 1: time on Midway, Jean had been writing to Fred and 122 00:09:09,756 --> 00:09:15,196 Speaker 1: not hearing back. One day, she called extremely upset. She 123 00:09:15,236 --> 00:09:16,996 Speaker 1: didn't know if he's alive or dead, or when he 124 00:09:17,036 --> 00:09:19,436 Speaker 1: was coming home or a damn thing. The next morning, 125 00:09:19,476 --> 00:09:21,476 Speaker 1: he's got this big grin on his face and he's 126 00:09:21,476 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 1: got this letter about this thick and he says that 127 00:09:23,956 --> 00:09:26,276 Speaker 1: Continent one wants to hear from me. She'll hear from me, 128 00:09:26,316 --> 00:09:28,876 Speaker 1: all right. So he opened it up and it's what 129 00:09:28,916 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 1: they call sit reps, and all they are is their 130 00:09:31,796 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 1: navy messages, and it says recommend send money, recommend sending food, 131 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:42,716 Speaker 1: recommend send you know whatever. So he just packaged up 132 00:09:42,716 --> 00:09:44,716 Speaker 1: all his copies that he had of these things for 133 00:09:44,756 --> 00:09:47,076 Speaker 1: the last thirty days and he wanted him up sent 134 00:09:47,196 --> 00:09:49,876 Speaker 1: them off to her. And he thought that was really funny. 135 00:09:50,436 --> 00:09:54,196 Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of pathetic, you know. So that, 136 00:09:54,316 --> 00:09:56,076 Speaker 1: along with other little things he said, I began to 137 00:09:56,116 --> 00:09:58,196 Speaker 1: realize that he and his first wife are not getting 138 00:09:58,196 --> 00:10:02,956 Speaker 1: along very well. Okay. When Jean's sister Carol visited them, 139 00:10:03,076 --> 00:10:06,916 Speaker 1: she found the atmosphere stifling. She thought Fred was sullen 140 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:12,036 Speaker 1: and surly, even anti shut down. She hadn't seen him 141 00:10:12,036 --> 00:10:14,516 Speaker 1: in eight months, and he didn't even greet her with hello, 142 00:10:15,276 --> 00:10:17,716 Speaker 1: and she was alarmed to hear the way he belittle 143 00:10:17,836 --> 00:10:23,436 Speaker 1: Jean addressing her as wife. Carol even asked Fred had 144 00:10:23,476 --> 00:10:27,916 Speaker 1: he forgotten her sister's name. But things for Jean and 145 00:10:27,956 --> 00:10:31,396 Speaker 1: Fred were about to go from bad to worse because 146 00:10:31,396 --> 00:10:34,796 Speaker 1: there was a secret in their marriage and Jeanne had 147 00:10:34,836 --> 00:10:52,356 Speaker 1: started spreading it all over town. There might be at 148 00:10:52,436 --> 00:10:56,996 Speaker 1: least a partial explanation for Fred's incredibly awkward behavior deep 149 00:10:57,116 --> 00:11:02,156 Speaker 1: embarrassment because Jeanne was pretty uninhibited when it came to 150 00:11:02,236 --> 00:11:06,356 Speaker 1: expressing her discontent, and her problem with the sex wasn't 151 00:11:06,396 --> 00:11:11,876 Speaker 1: his insatiable appetite. I noticed that it was described in 152 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:15,756 Speaker 1: the report here that Jane called Fred the mint a 153 00:11:15,836 --> 00:11:19,756 Speaker 1: man because he couldn't last very long. Yeah, she did. 154 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:24,636 Speaker 1: This is Barbara Warner again, Jean's old roommate, speaking to 155 00:11:24,636 --> 00:11:28,796 Speaker 1: the investigator. Barbara also mentioned Fred and Jean's tussles of 156 00:11:28,876 --> 00:11:31,956 Speaker 1: her finances. Jean was used to making her own money 157 00:11:32,116 --> 00:11:37,236 Speaker 1: and spending it how. She pleased extremely highly his money, 158 00:11:37,276 --> 00:11:39,556 Speaker 1: at least she thought so, because she wanted something she 159 00:11:39,676 --> 00:11:42,556 Speaker 1: charged his guy for later, She's never played on her 160 00:11:42,556 --> 00:11:45,436 Speaker 1: bills or anything, because she just wouldn't had charged bought 161 00:11:45,476 --> 00:11:49,716 Speaker 1: that saint she got to cash perfecting. At some point, 162 00:11:49,876 --> 00:11:54,436 Speaker 1: Jean started to outright hate her husband Fred. Talking about him, 163 00:11:54,516 --> 00:11:58,396 Speaker 1: she'd shut her and say, I can't stand him. This 164 00:11:58,476 --> 00:12:01,476 Speaker 1: is Candy Henman. There. There was this part of her 165 00:12:01,596 --> 00:12:04,156 Speaker 1: that when she wasn't around Fred and she wasn't thinking 166 00:12:04,156 --> 00:12:07,516 Speaker 1: about Fred, that was very vibrant and very very energetic 167 00:12:07,596 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 1: and positive. And then she would revert into the other 168 00:12:11,516 --> 00:12:15,476 Speaker 1: kind of personality if she was around him or talking 169 00:12:15,516 --> 00:12:20,116 Speaker 1: about him, then she would become intimidated. Candy felt very 170 00:12:20,156 --> 00:12:24,796 Speaker 1: strongly that Jean wasn't safe with Fred. I kept telling 171 00:12:24,796 --> 00:12:29,716 Speaker 1: her she needed to get out of that marriage. In 172 00:12:29,876 --> 00:12:34,356 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, California became the country's first no fault divorce state, 173 00:12:34,876 --> 00:12:38,396 Speaker 1: and soon everyone was doing it. Within a year, for 174 00:12:38,516 --> 00:12:41,116 Speaker 1: every one hundred couples that got married in La County, 175 00:12:41,556 --> 00:12:45,676 Speaker 1: seventy nine were filing for divorce. In Malibu. There was 176 00:12:45,716 --> 00:12:53,116 Speaker 1: also another factor splitting up families, maybe some wife swapping. 177 00:12:54,636 --> 00:12:58,036 Speaker 1: This is Michelle Williams, a friend of the Railers, and 178 00:12:58,116 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 1: to be clear, she wanted me to know that she 179 00:13:00,396 --> 00:13:04,636 Speaker 1: was not part of the swinging scene. But there was 180 00:13:04,676 --> 00:13:08,756 Speaker 1: a group who, like me, had never slept with anybody 181 00:13:08,756 --> 00:13:12,196 Speaker 1: else before we got married. It was just you just 182 00:13:12,316 --> 00:13:16,156 Speaker 1: didn't do it. And so there was a little bit 183 00:13:16,196 --> 00:13:21,516 Speaker 1: of a freedom for some people to you know, get 184 00:13:21,756 --> 00:13:26,036 Speaker 1: intimate with other people. It was open marriage, and it 185 00:13:26,236 --> 00:13:29,716 Speaker 1: ended in a couple of divorces. There was this one 186 00:13:29,756 --> 00:13:34,076 Speaker 1: book everyone was reading about experimenting outside marriage and how 187 00:13:34,116 --> 00:13:40,396 Speaker 1: fulfilling it could be. Carl Rogers, noted psychologist, came out 188 00:13:40,436 --> 00:13:45,276 Speaker 1: with a book called Becoming Partners where he described what 189 00:13:45,596 --> 00:13:51,956 Speaker 1: open marriage would look like, and everybody was reading that book. Yeah, no, 190 00:13:52,116 --> 00:13:58,556 Speaker 1: that was a pretty popular book. Jean, unhappy and frustrated, 191 00:13:58,716 --> 00:14:01,516 Speaker 1: had also begun to look outside her marriage for fulfillment. 192 00:14:02,196 --> 00:14:04,636 Speaker 1: She told friends about a relationship she had at work 193 00:14:04,836 --> 00:14:09,836 Speaker 1: with an inflight supervisor on her Honolulu root and then 194 00:14:10,036 --> 00:14:14,556 Speaker 1: without meaning to, she fell in love with Fred's sailing buddy, Dick. 195 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:18,836 Speaker 1: Fell though in Dick, the same person who a few 196 00:14:18,916 --> 00:14:21,476 Speaker 1: years later would help return Lady the Beagle to the 197 00:14:21,516 --> 00:14:26,476 Speaker 1: family after her adventure on Bird Rock that same Dick, 198 00:14:28,196 --> 00:14:30,156 Speaker 1: Jean and Fred spent a lot of time with Dick 199 00:14:30,196 --> 00:14:32,916 Speaker 1: and his wife Linda, as well as with another couple, 200 00:14:33,196 --> 00:14:36,556 Speaker 1: Bill and Donna. Fairfield. It was always the six of 201 00:14:36,596 --> 00:14:39,516 Speaker 1: them sailing together and getting naked in the hot tub. 202 00:14:40,676 --> 00:14:43,716 Speaker 1: Somehow along the way, Jean and Dick started to confide 203 00:14:43,756 --> 00:14:48,556 Speaker 1: in each other. Here's Jean's friend Barbara Warner again. He 204 00:14:48,756 --> 00:14:51,676 Speaker 1: was disenchanted at the time, and they had the trint 205 00:14:51,756 --> 00:14:53,636 Speaker 1: for a long time. Both the couple of Linda Dick 206 00:14:53,676 --> 00:14:57,476 Speaker 1: had the friends and Fred they had sailed together and 207 00:14:57,716 --> 00:15:00,756 Speaker 1: it was one of the friendship things that had started 208 00:15:00,756 --> 00:15:03,516 Speaker 1: out as a friendship affair. As she was having trouble, 209 00:15:03,676 --> 00:15:05,956 Speaker 1: she would talk to Dick and then maybe camp more 210 00:15:05,956 --> 00:15:10,396 Speaker 1: than friend or would they meet at would they most 211 00:15:10,756 --> 00:15:14,556 Speaker 1: count Jean would check in under her own name to 212 00:15:14,596 --> 00:15:18,436 Speaker 1: take advantage of her United Airlines discount, and that was 213 00:15:18,516 --> 00:15:22,276 Speaker 1: not the only example of her indiscretion. This is Mike Killeen, 214 00:15:22,596 --> 00:15:27,996 Speaker 1: a friend of Fred's, talking to an investigator. Jean let 215 00:15:28,076 --> 00:15:31,476 Speaker 1: everybody know that Fred had premature jaculations in the embarrassing 216 00:15:32,916 --> 00:15:36,876 Speaker 1: Jean let everybody know that she was having affairs. My god, 217 00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:39,236 Speaker 1: I knew that she was having an affair with this 218 00:15:39,516 --> 00:15:43,916 Speaker 1: Dick guy. I knew that, unlike her fling at work, 219 00:15:44,236 --> 00:15:48,076 Speaker 1: Jean's relationship with Dick was a serious affair. It went 220 00:15:48,116 --> 00:15:51,196 Speaker 1: on for several years, and as she grew more consumed 221 00:15:51,236 --> 00:15:54,596 Speaker 1: with it, she told more and more people. The more 222 00:15:54,676 --> 00:15:57,316 Speaker 1: she hated Fred, the more she wanted to be with Dick, 223 00:15:57,836 --> 00:16:00,316 Speaker 1: and the deeper she fell in love with Dick, the 224 00:16:00,356 --> 00:16:05,276 Speaker 1: more she wanted to extricate herself from Fred. To this day, 225 00:16:05,276 --> 00:16:09,996 Speaker 1: though Fred denies that he knew about their relationship, I'll 226 00:16:09,996 --> 00:16:15,716 Speaker 1: never know about Jean. You know, there was no outward signs, 227 00:16:15,876 --> 00:16:20,596 Speaker 1: there was no discussions, there was no anything that would 228 00:16:20,676 --> 00:16:24,396 Speaker 1: lead me to believe that. And he insists he didn't 229 00:16:24,476 --> 00:16:28,956 Speaker 1: cheat either, And I know for myself that I didn't. 230 00:16:30,916 --> 00:16:34,356 Speaker 1: I was quite happy and wanted to settle down with 231 00:16:34,436 --> 00:16:38,796 Speaker 1: one person. But one person who almost certainly did know 232 00:16:38,996 --> 00:16:44,036 Speaker 1: about Jean's affair with Deck was Verna Johnson. Before she 233 00:16:44,156 --> 00:16:48,476 Speaker 1: was Fred's second wife, Verna was one of Jean's best friends. 234 00:16:48,476 --> 00:16:50,796 Speaker 1: She taught at the preschool at the Methodist church where 235 00:16:50,836 --> 00:16:53,796 Speaker 1: Jean and Fred sent Heidi, and she often looked after 236 00:16:53,836 --> 00:16:57,596 Speaker 1: the girls when Jean was flying. Jean and Verna were 237 00:16:57,636 --> 00:17:05,036 Speaker 1: extremely tight, sharing secrets, gossip fears. Verna knew all Jeans start. 238 00:17:05,796 --> 00:17:09,116 Speaker 1: Verna's sister, Julianne, recalled spending a day at the amusement 239 00:17:09,196 --> 00:17:12,676 Speaker 1: park Magic Mountain with Verna and Jean and all the kids. 240 00:17:13,476 --> 00:17:17,316 Speaker 1: Julianne told an investigator that Jean ignored the children. She 241 00:17:17,476 --> 00:17:22,356 Speaker 1: was just totally preoccupied with dishing about Fred. She didn't 242 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:26,956 Speaker 1: say really nice things about him, and she talked like 243 00:17:28,716 --> 00:17:32,916 Speaker 1: a gossips talking. She would say one thing and then 244 00:17:32,916 --> 00:17:34,476 Speaker 1: turn around and say, well, I told so and so 245 00:17:34,556 --> 00:17:37,316 Speaker 1: of his part, and she would clerk. She would talk 246 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:40,716 Speaker 1: about a lot of other people, meaning she was saying 247 00:17:40,716 --> 00:17:42,716 Speaker 1: something to burn him. She said, well, I told so 248 00:17:42,876 --> 00:17:46,596 Speaker 1: and so the same thing about Fred. Warner was a 249 00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:52,076 Speaker 1: confidant of Jeans to listen to her private blues about 250 00:17:52,116 --> 00:17:55,836 Speaker 1: what a rat Fred was. Candy Henman and a lot 251 00:17:55,876 --> 00:17:59,116 Speaker 1: of Jean's friends knew Fred kept a handgun in the house. 252 00:17:59,876 --> 00:18:02,436 Speaker 1: I asked him about that. It was a three fifty 253 00:18:02,436 --> 00:18:04,796 Speaker 1: seven Smith and Wesson his parents had given him for 254 00:18:04,876 --> 00:18:07,876 Speaker 1: Christmas when he was at Purdue. He kept it loaded 255 00:18:08,156 --> 00:18:11,356 Speaker 1: in the drawer of his nightstand. We were in the 256 00:18:11,356 --> 00:18:15,316 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, and it would do something. Hadn't see 257 00:18:15,356 --> 00:18:18,556 Speaker 1: something happened. He told me the gun was there for 258 00:18:18,676 --> 00:18:22,596 Speaker 1: Jean's protection as much as anything else. But the number 259 00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:28,356 Speaker 1: one person, Jean wanted protection from was Fred. Patty Lytell 260 00:18:28,436 --> 00:18:33,036 Speaker 1: remembered something even more unsettling. She told detectives that Jean 261 00:18:33,156 --> 00:18:36,556 Speaker 1: had confided in her an verna that Fred was threatening her, 262 00:18:37,716 --> 00:18:42,916 Speaker 1: saying if he ever caught her cheating, he'd kill her. 263 00:18:55,316 --> 00:18:58,076 Speaker 1: There was one particularly bad night in the hot tub 264 00:18:58,076 --> 00:19:03,356 Speaker 1: at Calpine that everyone remembers. It was the Sextet, the Railers, 265 00:19:03,596 --> 00:19:09,396 Speaker 1: the Fairfields, the velf Owens naked. Of course, Jean, according 266 00:19:09,436 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: to others who were there, was a little drunk or 267 00:19:11,916 --> 00:19:14,516 Speaker 1: a little high, and she was getting a little loud. 268 00:19:15,316 --> 00:19:19,596 Speaker 1: It was obnoxious. This was an ongoing thing. Jeane would 269 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:24,676 Speaker 1: get carried away. We would have wine with dinner, and 270 00:19:24,956 --> 00:19:27,356 Speaker 1: when we went to parties and things. I think that's 271 00:19:27,356 --> 00:19:31,236 Speaker 1: when she would get caught up in the in the 272 00:19:31,756 --> 00:19:35,436 Speaker 1: party atmosphere and sometimes overdo it. She was kind of 273 00:19:35,476 --> 00:19:39,276 Speaker 1: a lightweight when it came to alcohol and pot. I 274 00:19:41,196 --> 00:19:46,356 Speaker 1: was bigger. I had a better way of hanging on 275 00:19:46,396 --> 00:19:48,636 Speaker 1: to it and still, you know, be able to do 276 00:19:48,796 --> 00:19:54,436 Speaker 1: long division. So that was sort of the difference. On 277 00:19:54,556 --> 00:19:57,516 Speaker 1: the night in question, Jean drove head first into the 278 00:19:57,516 --> 00:20:01,556 Speaker 1: hot tub, where everyone else, including Dick, was already hanging out. 279 00:20:02,516 --> 00:20:06,876 Speaker 1: Fred was furious. He later wrote quote, I pulled her 280 00:20:06,956 --> 00:20:08,556 Speaker 1: up by her hair and told her to get a 281 00:20:08,556 --> 00:20:14,236 Speaker 1: hold of herself. When Fred's friend Mike Colleen, who wasn't there, 282 00:20:14,436 --> 00:20:19,356 Speaker 1: heard about the incident, he thought it sounded overblown. His 283 00:20:19,516 --> 00:20:24,756 Speaker 1: sympathies lay entirely with Fred. Must have been a situation 284 00:20:24,796 --> 00:20:28,036 Speaker 1: where Jeane was probably mounting off about one thing and 285 00:20:28,076 --> 00:20:31,196 Speaker 1: another and embarrassing everybody, and maybe Fred did something that 286 00:20:31,236 --> 00:20:36,316 Speaker 1: we all do occasionally, he overreacted. According to Bill Fairfield's 287 00:20:36,356 --> 00:20:39,636 Speaker 1: statement to detectives, everyone in the hot tub laughed about 288 00:20:39,716 --> 00:20:42,556 Speaker 1: the absurdity of Fred yankee Jean out of the water, 289 00:20:43,276 --> 00:20:46,796 Speaker 1: but this laughter probably did not include Jean. It became 290 00:20:46,836 --> 00:20:52,476 Speaker 1: another story she confided miserably to her friends. Years later, 291 00:20:52,556 --> 00:20:56,516 Speaker 1: after Verna's death, investigators interviewed Dick felt thown about Fred 292 00:20:56,516 --> 00:21:01,436 Speaker 1: and Jean, and Dick also took Fred's side, his sailing 293 00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:05,476 Speaker 1: buddy over his old lover. He mentioned that Fred and 294 00:21:05,556 --> 00:21:08,756 Speaker 1: Jean fought openly in public and that it seemed to 295 00:21:08,876 --> 00:21:18,876 Speaker 1: him Jean was the instigator. One day, according to a 296 00:21:18,876 --> 00:21:21,596 Speaker 1: flight attendant friend of Jeans, she showed up at work 297 00:21:21,636 --> 00:21:24,516 Speaker 1: in a state of distress. One incident, I remember the 298 00:21:24,716 --> 00:21:28,116 Speaker 1: strength she came to work with her start tied up 299 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:31,276 Speaker 1: around her neck. She had the scarf from her uniform 300 00:21:31,356 --> 00:21:33,916 Speaker 1: tied around her neck and asked for permission to keep 301 00:21:33,956 --> 00:21:38,276 Speaker 1: wearing it throughout the flight because I was charge, you 302 00:21:38,276 --> 00:21:41,756 Speaker 1: don't mind and lend our Today I think I've kind 303 00:21:41,796 --> 00:21:45,916 Speaker 1: of said Widder tried to feel me and I said 304 00:21:45,916 --> 00:21:51,236 Speaker 1: water And she said she tried to joke, told the 305 00:21:51,356 --> 00:21:54,156 Speaker 1: stars down and did you call that pitting? There were 306 00:21:54,196 --> 00:21:57,476 Speaker 1: marks on her necks where she tried to choke her. 307 00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:03,356 Speaker 1: There's a feeling that I got from her that very up. 308 00:22:04,036 --> 00:22:22,116 Speaker 1: You know, we're not at the band to know. Fred 309 00:22:22,156 --> 00:22:25,596 Speaker 1: says this never happened, that he was never physical or 310 00:22:25,716 --> 00:22:29,316 Speaker 1: violent with Jean, but Jeane told friends she was scared 311 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:32,276 Speaker 1: of him, so scared she was going to move Fred's 312 00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:38,876 Speaker 1: pistol over to Verna's house. Also, I guess things start 313 00:22:38,956 --> 00:22:42,436 Speaker 1: going down the hill to a point where you mentioned 314 00:22:42,476 --> 00:22:46,716 Speaker 1: that Jean had told you several times had threatened to 315 00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:50,036 Speaker 1: kill her. If you ever car fooling around. That's the 316 00:22:50,116 --> 00:22:54,916 Speaker 1: investigator questioning, Barbara Warner. You're good and I never heard 317 00:22:55,036 --> 00:22:58,396 Speaker 1: can't say that I only heard it true. Jena. Yeah, 318 00:22:59,076 --> 00:23:01,436 Speaker 1: Jane would say something I can't like that. I would 319 00:23:01,436 --> 00:23:07,036 Speaker 1: think good, but I think genuinely I remember her saying, 320 00:23:07,076 --> 00:23:09,756 Speaker 1: you know, I think he's capable of him to be 321 00:23:09,796 --> 00:23:12,716 Speaker 1: honest with you. I don't know. The Only thing I 322 00:23:12,716 --> 00:23:15,916 Speaker 1: can do is just knowing thread and knowing his great 323 00:23:15,996 --> 00:23:22,756 Speaker 1: pride is that his pride was hurt by possibly her. 324 00:23:24,436 --> 00:23:26,676 Speaker 1: I think its towards the end, she was getting so 325 00:23:26,796 --> 00:23:30,036 Speaker 1: fed up with it. Knowing teens, she probably would say, 326 00:23:30,676 --> 00:23:33,156 Speaker 1: I can't stand it. Another minute's getting out of here. 327 00:23:33,476 --> 00:23:35,916 Speaker 1: And it probably got to him after a while, and 328 00:23:36,036 --> 00:23:39,556 Speaker 1: he was outward. But he was a very virile type 329 00:23:39,716 --> 00:23:43,436 Speaker 1: macho man, and I don't think he really was, and 330 00:23:43,556 --> 00:23:46,676 Speaker 1: I think he probably drew this up to him and 331 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:50,796 Speaker 1: it was tough on him to put it mildly. But 332 00:23:50,956 --> 00:23:56,156 Speaker 1: early summer nineteen seventy six, Jane was growing desperate. I 333 00:23:56,276 --> 00:23:58,516 Speaker 1: know she tried to get the two of them his 334 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:02,436 Speaker 1: accountlings and he had refused to go. And then finally, 335 00:24:03,116 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 1: after she had thrested separation and divorced, she said, well, okay, 336 00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:11,396 Speaker 1: let's try it. Jean found a therapist and they went 337 00:24:11,436 --> 00:24:14,916 Speaker 1: a couple of times. It was a failure. The best 338 00:24:14,916 --> 00:24:17,076 Speaker 1: part about it, Fred says is that he and Jean 339 00:24:17,116 --> 00:24:20,956 Speaker 1: would get a baskin Robbins afterward, and I guess it 340 00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:23,556 Speaker 1: got so bad to a point that she said, I 341 00:24:23,636 --> 00:24:25,836 Speaker 1: don't no counseling in the world that's going to help 342 00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:30,876 Speaker 1: us beyond hope. Fred was desperate too. The Navy was 343 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,556 Speaker 1: sending him back to Kauai that summer for an extended 344 00:24:33,636 --> 00:24:37,316 Speaker 1: stay at the Pacific Missile Test Facility. He didn't want 345 00:24:37,356 --> 00:24:39,996 Speaker 1: the marriage to end. He thought they could solvage it, 346 00:24:40,476 --> 00:24:45,116 Speaker 1: but Jean seemed past caring. Jean called a lawyer to 347 00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:50,756 Speaker 1: initiate the process of divorce. She was going to tell 348 00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:53,316 Speaker 1: him that he was going to be kicked out of 349 00:24:53,356 --> 00:24:56,476 Speaker 1: coul when he got home. By that point, by being 350 00:24:56,516 --> 00:24:58,396 Speaker 1: away and thinking and trying to get her head straight, 351 00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:02,716 Speaker 1: but she was waiting for him back. They had talked 352 00:25:02,916 --> 00:25:05,916 Speaker 1: and both of them to that they had a definite problem. 353 00:25:06,476 --> 00:25:08,956 Speaker 1: He was going to put her foot down and say 354 00:25:09,276 --> 00:25:15,076 Speaker 1: I've had him separate. Yeah. She's the kind of person 355 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:19,236 Speaker 1: that when he got back from Hawaii in October, Jean 356 00:25:19,316 --> 00:25:24,316 Speaker 1: would finally end the marriage. Barbara has speculated many times 357 00:25:24,356 --> 00:25:27,236 Speaker 1: about what went on between Jean and Fred in that 358 00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:34,156 Speaker 1: fragile moment when he returned. You have heartal situation. What 359 00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:36,316 Speaker 1: exactly do you might do? But she may have been 360 00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 1: so exasperated, it's so tired of SETI I'll tell you 361 00:25:41,156 --> 00:25:42,996 Speaker 1: what I have had him a fairy. I can't take 362 00:25:43,036 --> 00:25:45,876 Speaker 1: a spirit any longer. It maybe not realizing him. Why 363 00:25:45,956 --> 00:25:51,596 Speaker 1: don't he re love? Jean never did divorce Fred because 364 00:25:51,596 --> 00:25:59,596 Speaker 1: shortly after he got home, unexpectedly and inexplicably, she died. 365 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:10,836 Speaker 1: Coming up on the next episode of Lost Tales, Jean's 366 00:26:10,876 --> 00:26:15,836 Speaker 1: funeral gets people talking. Everything around him seemed black, dark, 367 00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:20,636 Speaker 1: and his face, his look, his everything was just darkness. 368 00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:23,556 Speaker 1: And I knew without a doubt that he had done it. 369 00:26:24,276 --> 00:26:30,436 Speaker 1: He just looked wicked, an evil less dark face in 370 00:26:30,516 --> 00:26:33,876 Speaker 1: my face and coming over and being friendly and chatty, 371 00:26:33,956 --> 00:26:36,516 Speaker 1: and I was thinking, you're a murderer. Why are you 372 00:26:36,556 --> 00:26:41,076 Speaker 1: even talking to me? That's next in episode four, The 373 00:26:41,196 --> 00:26:48,636 Speaker 1: Shallow End, Part two. Lost Hills is written and reported 374 00:26:48,676 --> 00:26:52,156 Speaker 1: by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created by me and Ben 375 00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:57,476 Speaker 1: Adair and produced by Western Sound and Pushkin Industries. Subscribe 376 00:26:57,516 --> 00:26:59,476 Speaker 1: to Pushkin Plas and you can hear the whole season 377 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:02,516 Speaker 1: add free and get early access to the final two episodes. 378 00:27:02,956 --> 00:27:05,316 Speaker 1: Find Pushkin Plas on the Lost Hills show page in 379 00:27:05,396 --> 00:27:11,516 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin dot fm