1 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Today marks the fiftieth anniversary of Earth Day, which started 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: in large parts as a reaction to what was at 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: the time the country's largest oil spill off the coast 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: of Santa Barbara in California. So it seemed fitting to 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: me to put out our Louisiana episode today because this 6 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: week also marks the tenth anniversary of the BP oil spill. 7 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: Louisiana is still reeling from that spill and various other 8 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,319 Speaker 1: oil industry impacts. We've gotten a few tips for our 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: Climate COVID nineteen policy tracker about Louisiana that I wanted 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: to dig into, because in Louisiana, it's not just that 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: there're over fifty thousand oil wells in the state's wetlands. 12 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: It's not even just about the BP spill or Hurricane Katrina. 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: It's also the petrochemical plants and the refineries that pollute 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 1: what's now called Cancer Alley. And it's the way fossil 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: fuel money has infiltrated everything from schools to JazzFest. A 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: study that came out from Harvard earlier this month correlated 17 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: exposure to a particular type of air pollution. It's called 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: PM two point five or soot the stuff that's belched 19 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: out of refineries and power plants and out of car 20 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: exhaust pipes with an increased risk of death from COVID nineteen. 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: So the same people who are vulnerable to a hurricane 22 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: exacerbated by climate change and have higher rates of asthma 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: and cancer because they live near refineries and petrochemical plants, 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: are also more likely to die in this pandemic. I 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: also wanted to do a Louisiana episode this week because 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: I was supposed to be in New Orleans right now 27 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: today speaking to people at the Fossil Free Festival. It's 28 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: a conference convened by Antana, a local artist and writer 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: collective focused on having what one of the organizers, Immani Brown, 30 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: calls the tough conversations about fossil fuels and climate change. 31 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: Those tough conversations involve artists and writers because so much 32 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: of the cities and the States arts and culture funding 33 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: comes from the fossil fuel industry. Since Katrina and the 34 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: BP spill, not only have many public entities and services 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: been privatized, often in ways that benefit industry over people, 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: but also the oil and gas companies have increasingly pumped 37 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: philanthropic dollars into Louisiana's local institutions. Seems nice at first, right, 38 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: but it's created a dependency that makes it really hard 39 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: to hold those companies accountable. According to BP Vice president 40 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Dev Sanyol, corporate funding of civic institutions grants these corporations 41 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: a quote social license to operate. This is something that 42 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: we talk a lot about on this show. Society grants 43 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: these companies and these industries license and trusts that the 44 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: benefits they provide to the public outweigh the costs. In 45 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: its nineteen eighty eight report the Greenhouse Effect, Shell confirmed 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 1: that climate change triggered by the carbon economy could lead 47 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: to quote adaptation, migration, and replacement of populations, which would 48 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: be costly and uncertain, but could be made acceptable today. 49 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: Shell claims that by funding New Orleans famous Jazz Fest 50 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: recently renamed the Jazz and Heritage Festival presented by Shell, 51 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: the company makes New Orleans communities resilient and sustainable, distorting 52 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: the fact that its operations make those communities both economically 53 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: and ecologically unsustainable. Since I couldn't be in New Orleans 54 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: to have that conversation, We're going to have it here 55 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: today and Monti Brown is here and we're also joined 56 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: by Ann Rolfe's founding director of the Louisi and a 57 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: Bucket Brigade, and Scott Eustace, community science director of Healthy Golf. 58 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: That conversation is coming up right after this quick word 59 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: from today's sponsor. I'm Amy Westervelt and this is Drilled. 60 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 2: I'm curious to hear what's kind of been happening in 61 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: your neck of the woods in the last month or so. 62 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 3: Lord, it's probably a lifetime of events. 63 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: That's Scott Eustace. He's a scientist who works with the 64 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: nonprofit Healthy Golf trying to keep coastal wetlands safe. 65 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: Just realize we have a new climate that we're dealing with. 66 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 3: We just had an easter storm where people pass away 67 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: in northern Louisiana. We've got a high river right now 68 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 3: off of twenty nineteen which was the highest longest river 69 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: flood in recorded history. So that's happening as well as 70 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: the public health emergency. 71 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: As well as. 72 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 3: You know, the oil industry in free fall, which is 73 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: kind of its own independent and weird and horrible thing, 74 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 3: and they're taking really they're washing their debt in this 75 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 3: public health crisis, and I don't know if you have 76 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: a better answer. 77 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 5: Well, the the oil price plunging predated Corona, right, I mean, 78 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 5: Corona is exacerbating it, but they have a global problem 79 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 5: and a business model problem. At this point, I would say, well, 80 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 5: it's nice to meet you. Amy. 81 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: That's Ann Rolfs, who runs the nonprofit Louisiana Bucket Brigade. 82 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: Their focus is stopping pollution in the state. 83 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 5: What we're seeing is the petrochemical industry on steroids doing 84 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 5: what they usually do, which is to take advantage of 85 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 5: a crisis for their own benefit. So one example is 86 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 5: the fact that just as this as the shutdowns started 87 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 5: all over the country, the American Petroleum Institute wrote a 88 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 5: letter to Donald Trump that was on March twentieth, and 89 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 5: asked for rules to be relaxed. Right, this is clearly 90 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 5: a request that they had in their files already. They 91 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 5: see Corona happened, they grabbed that letter, they submit it 92 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 5: to him, and six days later those rules are relaxed. 93 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 5: And you know, obviously contrasts this to the requests that 94 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 5: have been made here for a long time by communities 95 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 5: along cancer rally. You know, years go by and you 96 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 5: can't get children in a grammar school protected. But you know, 97 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 5: less than a week the American Petroleum Institute gets its way. 98 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 5: So I would say that's the first thing, is that 99 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 5: they're capitalizing on the crisis for their own, you know, 100 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 5: their own benefit. And then secondly is that in particular 101 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 5: in Saint James's parish, foremost of plastics took this occasion 102 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 5: to begin construction. This would be one of the largest 103 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 5: plastics plants in the world. In the United States, it's 104 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 5: the largest proposed source of greenhouse gases in the country. 105 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 5: And what do they do on the first day of 106 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 5: our stay at home order here in Louisiana They start 107 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 5: laying utility polls for their construction. So it's what usually 108 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 5: happens in a crisis, right, things get worse, Yeah, and yeah, 109 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 5: happily the I think the community responses commensurate. In Saint 110 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 5: James it's local people led by Sharon Levine, who saw 111 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 5: them constructing and put a halt to it. And then 112 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 5: likewise with the bigger problem, the Long Cancer Alley, there's 113 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 5: the Coalition against Death ally the concerned citizens of Saint 114 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 5: John Justice and beyond. 115 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 6: You know, the Bucket Brigade has. 116 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 5: Involved a lot of groups who were exposing and talking 117 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 5: about what's happening. 118 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: Said, Sharon saw them constructing and put us up to it. 119 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 6: What exactly happened there? 120 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, good question. So on Monday, March twenty third was 121 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 5: the Louisiana statewide stay at Home ardor the commencement of that. 122 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: On that day, Sharon Levine was driving, like a lot 123 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 5: of her neighbors to go get her last run of groceries, 124 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 5: pick up her medications, and along River Road, the road 125 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 5: right next to the Mississippi River, she finds that its 126 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 5: one lane is shut down. It's a two lane highway. 127 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 5: The stay at home order is supposed to go into 128 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 5: effect at five o'clock that night. Everybody's going out for 129 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 5: their last run for essentials, and yet traffic is backed 130 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 5: up and she doesn't understand why. And then finally she gets, 131 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 5: you know, inches forward in line and realizes, oh my gosh, 132 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 5: the hold up is at the foremost of plastics site 133 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 5: and sees various trucks and so there was some confusion there, right. 134 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 5: She sees various trucks on the site, she sees utility poles, 135 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 5: but you know, you know, there's nothing, of course, that 136 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 5: says Formost of Plastics is beginning today, right, And so 137 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 5: she came back. You know, we talked on the phone 138 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 5: and we're trying to figure out what's going on. So 139 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 5: we made a number of calls to try to understand 140 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 5: and get confirmation about whether or not it was Foremost 141 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 5: of Plastics. From experience, we felt very confident that it 142 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 5: was because we know it's very like the petrocommical industry 143 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 5: to capitalize on a crisis for its own gain. So 144 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 5: we felt confident it was, but we didn't have proof 145 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 5: that it was, and so we called around. We called 146 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 5: our attorneys, they called Formosa's attorneys here in New Orleans. 147 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 5: Formosa's attorneys actually said, we don't know. We have to 148 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 5: call Taiwan. That's where the company is based, and that's 149 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 5: what we're dealing with here. And so we never did 150 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 5: get a straight answer from them. I know Scott reached 151 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 5: out to the core didn't get a straight Well, they 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 5: said no, but it was a very precise question. And 153 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 5: then on Wednesday we went out and did a Facebook 154 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 5: live and Sharon was the speaker in that Facebook live, 155 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 5: and it was because of a journalist's follow up questions 156 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 5: that we were able to get confirmation that in fact 157 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 5: it was foremost of plastics. I should add that we 158 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 5: also talked to parish officials. They didn't know right, And 159 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 5: so this is the situation we're dealing with, this vagueness 160 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 5: and confusion, you know what's going on. And then I 161 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 5: will say too that when it did come out that 162 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 5: you know, in fact it is Formosa Plastics, they really 163 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 5: distorted the facts of the matter. Energy, who was laying 164 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 5: the utility poles, said that we're in essential service, which 165 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 5: is of course true a utility is, but not to 166 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 5: build a plastics plant. And then what Formosa said was, oh, 167 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 5: you know, we're going to make We're going to make 168 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 5: blood bags and things for healthcare, which nobody they've never 169 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 5: said that before. They're going to make plastic pellets. And 170 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 5: even if they were going to make useful stuff, it 171 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 5: wouldn't be ready for half a decade. So, you know, 172 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 5: distortions all the way through. 173 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: Ultimately, construction on the Formosa Plastics plant was forced to stop, 174 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: mainly because Sharon Levine, director of the local environmental justice 175 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: group Rising James, saw that construction happening and started asking 176 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: questions about it. Here's Scott Eustace again. 177 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: They were digging into the toe of a levee and 178 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: placing poles into the levee during river flood, which is 179 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 3: not allowed and was not allowed, and they knew it 180 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: was not allowed as long as the river is higher 181 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 3: than a certain gauge. But no one was really watching, 182 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 3: you know, no one was really enforcing the river levee 183 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: permit except Mischer. There's all this confusion about what is 184 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 3: essential work. You know, at a time when oil industry 185 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 3: is supposed to be essential workers, why are so many 186 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 3: of them laid off? So many people are laid off 187 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: without pay, And at least from the refinery angle, there's 188 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: been a lot of pollution events in the last month 189 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: or so, and often what you see is the plants 190 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 3: are still reporting pollution events for what we as far 191 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: as we know, and the ones that I've seen in 192 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 3: the last month have to do with power outages where 193 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: the plant loses power. It seems like they've laid off 194 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 3: all the contractors, all the non union labor who run 195 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 3: the emergency generators. So when we've been getting these storms 196 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 3: in the last month, they don't have emergency generators, and 197 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 3: so we've had a lot of upsets at the CF 198 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 3: industry's plan in Donaldsonville, and then most recently we had 199 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 3: a stack explosion at the Valero refinery in Saint Bernard 200 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 3: and the investigations are on going into that. Normally, you know, 201 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 3: in the long term, we do rely on fines and 202 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 3: the EPA to find a company to make sure that 203 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: they have better processes. It's been a chronic problem, of course, 204 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 3: and and Bucket Brigade documented for years, but we're just 205 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: seeing more of that in this kind of confluence of 206 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: the industry wanting to lay everyone off that they can 207 00:12:55,200 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: because of the debt problems and the public health consideration 208 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: and then the kind of weather emergencies that we're beginning 209 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: to see as we go into the hurricane season right right. 210 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 2: What kind of response have you seen from I know, 211 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: I saw this letter asking the state government to shut 212 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 2: down petrochemical plants during this What has the response been, 213 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: if anything, and what are what's kind of happening with 214 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: the petrocin guys right now? 215 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the plants are shutting down. You can shut 216 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 3: off in a bad way or you can shut off 217 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: in a safe way, and they're doing it the bad 218 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 3: way because the plants are not shutting down out of 219 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: some consideration for public health. They're shutting down because let's 220 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 3: take Exxon Mobile. You know, they make their an oil refinery. 221 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: They make things like gasoline and other fuels. The product 222 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: almost has a negative value at this moment in time. 223 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 3: So just from a financial perspective, the companies are trying 224 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: to just they've been laying people off as fast as 225 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 3: possible and trying to shut down production, where really we 226 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: need everyone who keeps those plants safe and keeps the 227 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 3: air pollution low. On the other hand, there's all these 228 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 3: construction of new projects, which is probably which like Anne 229 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: was saying, it's technically quote unquote essential, but we really 230 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 3: need to reevaluate whether or not all you know, all 231 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: of these plants are at all essential in the new 232 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: economic moment. Even before, as Anne was saying, like even 233 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: before you know, the global reduction in demand for fossil 234 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 3: fuels and plastics that we've had since March, we've take 235 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 3: the formost of plastics proposal. China instituted a single use 236 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: plastics ban in January twenty twenty before the public health emerger, 237 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 3: and see that would eliminate millions and millions of tons 238 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 3: of plastics demand. Basically eliminating the economic need for something 239 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: like the Formosa plastics plant, and yet we're seeing that 240 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 3: they're moving forward with construction, even unbeknownst to them. 241 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 4: Apparently they're moving forward with construction and other things as well, 242 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 4: such as some of the LNG construction sites in Calcashu 243 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 4: and Cameron Parish are moving forward with hundreds and hundreds 244 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 4: of people, even though it's quite unclear if. 245 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: There's any demand for the product that you know, in 246 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: five to eight years would be exported out of these facilities. 247 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 4: The air pollution that these facilities. 248 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: Create over the long term, they've weakened our lungs in 249 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 3: Louisiana and they're making us more vulnerable. 250 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: Immani Brown with Antenna points to this as part of 251 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: a broader problem, one that was there before COVID nineteen 252 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: and we'll be thereafter, and a conversation that the state's 253 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: residents really need to have about what sort of place 254 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: they want to live in. 255 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 7: You know, any conversation about whether there is demand for 256 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 7: the petrochemical product, of course, has to take into consideration. 257 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 7: You know the fact that demand is created and demand 258 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 7: is a large part a result of supply, and all 259 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 7: of these plastics that are being produced in cancer alley 260 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 7: are you know, made from the waste of the fossil 261 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 7: fuel production process. So rather than actually not that there's 262 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 7: any you know, quote unquote safe way to handle petrochemical waste, 263 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 7: fossil fuel waste, right, you know, essentially we're being denied 264 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 7: any evidence of the of the costs to society, and 265 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 7: we're being constantly over the head. 266 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 6: With this message about the benefit if. 267 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,239 Speaker 7: You know, in this particular heightened crisis of coronavirus, if 268 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 7: we're recognizing that the petrochemical industry is putting residents in 269 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 7: the in the petrochemical corridor at greater risk of suffering 270 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 7: the worst consequences of coronavirus, this is creating one of 271 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 7: the highest mortality rates in the country right in the 272 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 7: world to coronavirus. If we're recognizing that that's happening now, 273 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 7: and we're not willing to actually, you know, put a 274 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 7: moratorium on the output of these industries because we realize 275 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 7: that human life in this moment takes precedence over the economy. 276 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 6: Which we're seeing across the world. 277 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 7: We're seeing economic sacrifices for the benefit of public health, right, 278 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 7: but we're not willing to do that in this state. 279 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 7: We're not willing to have an open conversation about whether 280 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 7: that is even you know, like a viable or desirable 281 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 7: action to take right to mitigate this impact act of coronavirus, right, Like, 282 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 7: I mean, like, what what is the hope for these 283 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 7: communities on a normal day. I mean, we have to 284 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 7: go back to Katrina with this, right because we used 285 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 7: to have one of the I think the second oldest 286 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 7: public hospital in the US. It's not the oldest right 287 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,479 Speaker 7: charity hospital that was I mean the subject of an 288 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 7: immense scandal after Katrina, but it was effectively shuddered for 289 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 7: no reason and closed in order to be privatized. The 290 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 7: whole city, right was privatized after Katrina like this, you know, 291 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 7: Katrina was was a crisis that was seen as an 292 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 7: opportunity to use our like you know then Governor's exact language, 293 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,719 Speaker 7: you know, and it was an opportunity to really flip 294 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 7: the economic script in Louisiana to push out a lot 295 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 7: of Louisiana's you know, poor black residents, to retain as 296 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 7: many folks as they needed to like power this tourist economy, 297 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 7: but you know, to really to really try to experiment 298 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 7: in new ways of you know, kind of sucking profit 299 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 7: out of every possible sector. So we had, you know, 300 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 7: the privatization of public housing. 301 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 6: Of public schools, the public hospital. 302 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 7: So these like conversations about like, you know, why is 303 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 7: it that the industry is able to keep sucking out 304 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 7: subsidies and you know, getting all getting a pass and 305 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 7: like getting defended and getting bailed out constantly at you know, 306 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 7: the expense of louisianas and you know the country, Yes, 307 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 7: Louisiana has been captured by the fossil fuel industry, but 308 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 7: you know, the industry occupied basically the same place in 309 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 7: the Louisiana's economy and culture that slavery did. I think 310 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 7: it's really important to be specific about the way that 311 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 7: the fossil fuel industry has carried over the sort of economic, environmental, spatial, 312 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 7: social legacies of colonialism and slavery. That when we're speaking 313 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 7: about this region that Anna and Scott have described, you 314 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 7: know that is known locally as Cancer Alley, that has 315 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 7: the highest rates of cancer the US, according to most 316 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 7: recently a year long Guardian study, right that has over 317 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 7: two hundred petrochemical plants and refineries kind of in the 318 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 7: area between Baton Rouge and New Orleans a seventy mile 319 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 7: kind of the crow flies kind of area. We have 320 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 7: to recognize that these two hundred plants and refineries are 321 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 7: literally occupying the footprints of former sugarcane plantations that were 322 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 7: powered by enslaved labor. 323 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: That'll cast a really long shadow over the sudden surge 324 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: of fossil fuel philanthropy in the state over the past 325 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: decade or so. 326 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 7: The crucial thing with, you know, all of this philanthropy 327 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 7: is that any donation comes with, you know, a mandated logo. 328 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 6: Logos are everywhere. 329 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 7: They're plastered on the facades of building. So the Chevron 330 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 7: Forum at a local high school called NOKA, the New 331 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 7: Orleans Center for Creative Arts, has a giant Chevron logo 332 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 7: on it any. The French Corter Festival has been rebranded 333 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 7: as the New Orleans French Quarter Festival presented by Chevron. 334 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 7: In one breast, the Jazz Fest is now New Orleans 335 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 7: Jazz and Heritage Festival presented by Shell. Shell and Chevron's 336 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 7: logos are on every volunteer T shirt, on all merchandise, 337 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 7: on the banners that hang from the massive. 338 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 6: Stages that you know have historically especially. 339 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 7: With jazz fests been named after cultural icons in New 340 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 7: Orleans and so are now plastered with the logos of 341 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 7: the industries that are literally destroying the state from within. 342 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 6: There's a real malignance to. 343 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 7: This philanthropy which is presenting these oil companies as the. 344 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 6: Saviors of society. 345 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 3: Right. 346 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 7: Like Shell literally says on their website that their funding 347 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 7: of jazz tests makes New Orleans more sustainable and more 348 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 7: resilient than Hurricane Katrina, even though we know that oil 349 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 7: and gas activities, you know, contribute to seasonal hurricanes being 350 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 7: stronger than ever before. We have this, this messaging and 351 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 7: these logos that are proliferating the public sphere that serve, 352 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 7: on the one hand, as a very successful distraction from 353 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 7: the violence of fossil fuel production. 354 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 6: Right It's a look over here. 355 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 7: Kind of strategy. It creates a sense of dependency, right that, like, 356 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 7: without you know, these oil companies, the social fabric of 357 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 7: Louisiana would crumble, and it creates what the industry is 358 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 7: very overt about, something called a social license to operate. 359 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 7: And BPS you've probably report on this before. BPS Vice 360 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 7: president Dev Daniel has like articulated this very directly, right 361 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 7: that in today's world, oil companies cannot operate sustainably. 362 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 6: Without the support of society. 363 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 7: And you know, the idea is that allegedly society is 364 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 7: saying that the benefits you know, here we go again, 365 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 7: the benefits of these activities outweigh the costs. Well, you know, 366 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 7: I don't remember any conversation that we've ever been a 367 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 7: part of where we've actually like you know, sat down, 368 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 7: listed out the costs and benefits and said, actually, yeah, 369 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 7: like let's let's go with it. Right, So this is 370 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 7: all metaphorical. But for VPS Vice President DEVS Danial and others, 371 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 7: this metaphorical you know, like theoretical license, you know, is 372 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 7: really all they need because they know that the affect 373 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 7: of power of these logos is immense. Fossil fuel logos 374 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 7: and the philanthropy are as essential to fossil fuel production 375 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 7: as any pipeline, as any rig, as any other form 376 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 7: of infrastructural equipment. 377 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 6: Right, it is a part of industry. 378 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: It's really important to know what people in Louisiana are 379 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: dealing with and just how entrenched the industry is. There 380 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: this point that Amani makes that it's one of the 381 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: largest fossil fuel states and also one of the poorest 382 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: states in the country. Is a really good counter argument 383 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: to what the fossil fuel industry talks about a lot, 384 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: which is the amount of wealth and benefit that it 385 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: brings to the places that it operates. But it's also 386 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: important for people to realize that a lot of folks 387 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: in Louisiana and other big oil states are fighting really 388 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: hard to change things, because we don't always hear about 389 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: those fights, and sometimes they're winning. Here's Scott Eustace again. 390 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 3: The situation is desperate in many angles, but local people 391 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 3: are fighting back and when we win, we win big. 392 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 3: So I would just like the listeners to your podcast 393 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: to realize that the majority of us in the Gulf 394 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 3: Coast are fighting these things. We know, we just need 395 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 3: outside help because there's a lot of forces arrayed against us. 396 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 3: When you think about the Green New Deal, right, a 397 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 3: lot of those discussions happened without us. So we've come 398 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 3: together to talk about Gulf South for a Green New Deal. 399 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 3: Because as desperate as our working population is, as on 400 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 3: a as it is, everything changes extremely quickly. Even if 401 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: you look at something like offshore wind, you know it's 402 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 3: our welders building the substructure for Black Island wind off 403 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 3: Rhode Island. It's our engineering firms doing the that wasn't planned. 404 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 3: Even those firms don't even like to talk about it 405 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 3: too much because it goes against the grain of all 406 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 3: of the public pressure to politically support the oil industry. 407 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 3: But I would just put a call out to your 408 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: lizards to help us join us, because when things change, 409 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: and they will and they are, they happen here in 410 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 3: Texas and Louisiana. 411 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: First this time, thanks for joining us. We have plenty 412 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: more episodes coming for you and our there will be 413 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: fraud season. This rush to leverage the pandemic on behalf 414 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: of the fossil fuel industry has only been speeding up 415 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: in the last few weeks. And actually there's a reason 416 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 1: for that, a really obscure and kind of boring reason, 417 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: but an important one, which we'll get into next week. 418 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: Come back for that episode. In the meantime, please continue 419 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: sending your tips for the Policy Tracker. Those can go 420 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: to pitches at drillednews dot com. 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