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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

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Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abusive power you'd like to share,

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Speaker 1: leave us a message on our hotline number at five

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Speaker 1: one three nine hundred two nine five five.

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Speaker 2: Or she had us an email at trust Me pod

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Speaker 2: at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust for trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we never have a.

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Speaker 1: Live about If you think that one person has all

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Speaker 1: the answers, don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cult,

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Speaker 1: extreme belief and the abusive Power from two would be

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Speaker 1: Bachelor contestants who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 5: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: And today our guest is Gillian Lauren, author of Some Girls,

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Speaker 1: My Life and Harem and also her new book Behold

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Speaker 1: the Monster, which is about her time getting to know

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Speaker 1: a serial killer. But she's going to tell us about

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Speaker 1: her experience joining the Prince of Brunei's Harem when she

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Speaker 1: was younger, and in part one today she'll tell us

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Speaker 1: about how she was first approached and then what it

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Speaker 1: was like showing up to the lavish, heavily guarded grounds

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Speaker 1: and living in the lap of luxury, as well as

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Speaker 1: the simlarities of the experience to the bachelor or you know,

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Speaker 1: like hunger games.

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Speaker 2: We'll also talk about when she felt like she was

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Speaker 2: in danger, the level of sadism she experienced from the prince,

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Speaker 2: and some of the backlash she received from her family

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Speaker 2: for writing her book.

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Speaker 1: And so much more next week, you guys, stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, before we get into stuff, do you want

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Speaker 1: to tell me what your cultiest thing this week is?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So there's some new news out about the Playboy Mansion,

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Speaker 2: Number one total cult. We really want to talk to

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Speaker 2: Holly Madison. If anybody knows, Holly.

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Speaker 1: Why won't you talk to us?

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Speaker 5: Don't know, but it's worse than we thought.

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Speaker 2: Not only was there the big mansion, there were also

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Speaker 2: mini mansions where Hughes Inner Circle would take the cast

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Speaker 2: off girls that he didn't make his girlfriends and they

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Speaker 2: would give them drugs, basically groom them to become escorts.

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Speaker 2: Really young girls, a lot of them from different countries,

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Speaker 2: a lot of them seventeen blackmail them. If you try

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Speaker 2: to leave'll tell your family that you're a prostitute. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: just disgusting shit run by some really powerful men. So

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Speaker 2: apparently Hugh Hefner's best friend was his physician who would

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Speaker 2: prescribe him pills. And this physician had a daughter who

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Speaker 2: grew up at the Playboy Mansion and she wrote a

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Speaker 2: book about her experience there, but the editors made her

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Speaker 2: take out all this information because they didn't want repercussions

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Speaker 2: from Hugh Heffner. But now he's dead, so she's finally

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Speaker 2: getting to tell what really happened, and it's fucking.

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Speaker 5: Gross, dude.

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Speaker 1: It is not even remotely shocking just given what the

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Speaker 1: culture was, but also disgusting. I mean, I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to read about it. But we held this man in

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Speaker 1: such high esteem. He was like the god, like every

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Speaker 1: man wished he could be Hugh Hefner. But of course

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Speaker 1: the flip side of that is like, yeah, you're still

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Speaker 1: like completely objectifying young impressionable girls who get then treated

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Speaker 1: as objects and abused, and you know, like there's just

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Speaker 1: no way that environment at the very very least, it's toxic,

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Speaker 1: but it's course ripe for abuse, Like there's there's no

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Speaker 1: way that doesn't happen, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty gross. I mean, the early two thousands

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Speaker 2: are really nuts.

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Speaker 5: Huh.

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Speaker 1: Every era was nuts when you like actually go back

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Speaker 1: and look at what the culture was like, every era

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Speaker 1: was nuts. And in my head, I'm like, well, it's

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Speaker 1: the two thousands, it's not the sixties. But I'm like, yeah, shure,

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Speaker 1: there's still some very offensive things going on culturally when

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Speaker 1: we were growing up.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's what I mean. I mean, that's when they

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Speaker 5: were on the air.

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Speaker 2: That's when The Girl's Next Door was on E and

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Speaker 2: that was everybody's favorite show, like even girls.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, it was so strange.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't like disempower people who want to

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Speaker 1: be sex workers. Like that person is a real thing,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's great to have a window into

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Speaker 1: what that life looks like and how it could actually

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Speaker 1: be empowering for some people. But of course then we

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Speaker 1: just like need to know, we got to get it

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Speaker 1: all out in the open. If there was darker shit going.

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Speaker 2: On, absolutely agreat What about you, what's the cultiest thing

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Speaker 2: that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 1: Well, guys, is this so boring when I talk about

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Speaker 1: like my mental health? But whatever, it's fine, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be boring. I just was thinking about how I'm doing

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Speaker 1: this type of therapy now and we're actually like making

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Speaker 1: really good progress and I'm like slowing down my number

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Speaker 1: of sessions with my CBT therapists, which is great. But

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Speaker 1: we're doing ERP, which is exposure therapy. Essentially, it stands

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Speaker 1: for exposure and response prevention. So you are not doing

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Speaker 1: this in your therapy at the OCD place, not yet.

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Speaker 1: Have you guys talked about it at all?

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Speaker 5: I don't think so, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I have specific like thoughts or like themes of thoughts

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Speaker 1: that I get really scared of. So other people with

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Speaker 1: OCD might like their obsessive behavior is that they think

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Speaker 1: if they don't like count to ten whenever X thing happens,

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Speaker 1: then they're gonna die or whatever.

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Speaker 5: Yeah that's my type.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have to touch it and like kiss my two

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Speaker 2: moles on my fingers.

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Speaker 5: It's it's ridiculous, but yeah, oh wow.

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Speaker 1: I don't have that kind of compul usion outward compulsion.

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Speaker 1: I just have like it's called like emotional contamination where

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Speaker 1: I'll have a thought and I'll think like, don't think that,

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Speaker 1: don't think that, don't think that, don't think that, and

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Speaker 1: then I'm like obsessively trying to not make myself think

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Speaker 1: the thought, and that is a compulsion because it's then

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Speaker 1: you're ruminating and ruminating and ruminating and ruminating. That sounds

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Speaker 1: so fun, Oh my god, so fun, that's so cool.

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Speaker 1: Just gets fucking stuck at these ridiculous thought loops because

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Speaker 1: every time it happens, you're like, this isn't rational. I know,

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Speaker 1: this isn't rational.

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Speaker 5: Resistance to it is keeping it in play.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So I was like thinking about my daily habits

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Speaker 1: for the year and what I want to do and

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Speaker 1: how I want to like construct my life for the year,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm feeling better whatever, and I was debating

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Speaker 1: whether to do affirmations, and I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't do affirmations right now because I'm doing

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Speaker 1: literally the opposite of affirmations, which is to say a

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Speaker 1: script to myself about all of the most horrible things

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Speaker 1: that I absolutely do want to happen, and like forcing

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Speaker 1: myself to think about them and imagine them happening. Because

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Speaker 1: the thoughts are so scary that like I'm pushing, I

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Speaker 1: push them away and then they come back even stronger.

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Speaker 1: So the goal is to like attack the thoughts head

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Speaker 1: on and be like, yeah, I'm I'm fucking I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: lose my mind. Whoo sounds real scary. Oh, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ed up in an institution. Good job, brain.

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Speaker 2: It's like you you're like the thoughts are chasing you,

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Speaker 2: but then you turn around and start chasing the.

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Speaker 1: Thoughts exactly, and it's so much more empowering where you're like, oh, yeah, great,

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Speaker 1: great job, Like me, give me more of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, take off the sheet and you see it's just

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Speaker 2: baby Lola and like a ghost costume or something trying

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Speaker 2: to scare.

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Speaker 1: You out all that.

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Speaker 5: Or keep you safe. I mean, not trying to scare you,

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Speaker 5: you know, like but that's.

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Speaker 1: The same thing. It's like, yeah, well maybe you should

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Speaker 1: look at this because this might be dangerous. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: should look at this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So instead of waking up and saying I am

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Speaker 1: productive today and I'm in confident, I'm waking up and

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Speaker 1: I'm going I might forget most of my life. I

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Speaker 1: might lose my mind entirely. I'm going to end up

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Speaker 1: in a mental institution. And I just imagine my positive

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Speaker 1: thinker friends who are really into the law attraction, which

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Speaker 1: by the way, is culty.

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Speaker 5: As fuck, absolutely I'm the leader of it.

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Speaker 1: Being like, oh my god, you're gonna like make all

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Speaker 1: this stuff happen because you're putting bad energy into your life.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, no, what I'm doing is I'm like.

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Speaker 2: Being brave, like right, But I honestly think that the

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Speaker 2: energy with which you're doing it is different than just

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Speaker 2: unconsciously being like I'm stupid.

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Speaker 5: I'm never gonna like consciously choosing to do it to.

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Speaker 2: Unwire it, I think is a different vibration than just

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Speaker 2: not noticing that you're thinking and that's how you feel

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Speaker 2: about yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know about that vibration stuff,

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Speaker 1: but definitely, like the neural pathways, as I like to

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Speaker 1: look at it, are just like it's creating new grooves

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Speaker 1: in a more much more empowering way. So this the

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Speaker 1: way I'm approaching the thoughts is definitely different. It's not

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Speaker 1: like losing myself on them and feeling out of control.

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Speaker 1: And as we've talked about, having an innerlocus of control

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Speaker 1: is such a major factor in like being a resilient person.

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Speaker 1: Soely that's what we're working on. Fun anyway, Jillian, Yes,

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Speaker 1: Baby's Jillian one of my favorite books let's do it

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Speaker 1: all right, let's begin.

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Gillian Lauren. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 1: You are an author and a performer and just like

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Speaker 1: a woman who's experienced a variety of experiences. So today

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about your book Some Girls, My

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Speaker 1: Life and a Harem. You also have a new book

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Speaker 1: coming out called Behold the Monster, Confronting a Killer, which

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Speaker 1: we will also discuss. But basically, we are talking to

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Speaker 1: you today because you were a member of a prince's

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Speaker 1: harem in Brunei, which is an absolutely insane story. Megan's

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Speaker 1: read your book like more than once.

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Speaker 5: H more than once a week.

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Speaker 1: Can you just paint a picture for us really to

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Speaker 1: start us off, What did your life look like before

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Speaker 1: any of this happened? What were you doing, where were

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Speaker 1: you at, what was going on?

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Speaker 4: First of all, I'd like to say I really appreciate

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Speaker 4: having the space to tell this story in this context

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Speaker 4: because it's something people don't really understand and don't really

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Speaker 4: ask about.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I was joking around when we were coming up with titles,

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Speaker 3: and You're like, I was a teenage sex slave. I

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Speaker 3: was in you know, like fifties, but like I was, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: So my life was. I went to college when I

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Speaker 3: was sixteen, good idea excellence. I to NYU. So I'm

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Speaker 3: right on Washington Square Park, sixteen years old, do the

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Speaker 3: NYU theater thing. And then I decide I want the

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Speaker 3: School of Life, and I'm taking a year off from college.

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Speaker 3: And so by that time, I was almost eighteen. I

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Speaker 3: was trying to act. So I was going to some

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Speaker 3: scumbags apartment in Newark, you know who would like have

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Speaker 3: me scream and then put me in a terrible horror movie.

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Speaker 1: Like you're in there, tick off your top, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I did this movie and I was victim one nice.

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Speaker 3: I'm always a victim, victim every single awful movie I did.

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Speaker 2: This one that we're discussing now would be Valerie Corract.

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Speaker 3: Calorie is the name of the wonderful I've tried to

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Speaker 3: locate it and I have not been able to so

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Speaker 3: I haven't been able to get my hands in that film.

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Speaker 3: But the big starring moment was I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: running down a freezing beach in the Hampton's with pigtails

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Speaker 3: and cheerleader outfit that ripped off with Velcrow, you know, so.

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Speaker 7: As they do as out of running, you know, like

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Speaker 7: a piece of clothing of time, freezing to death and

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Speaker 7: wind up covered in like half frozen, disgusting blood.

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Speaker 3: And I wound up washing it off with this woman

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Speaker 3: who played one of the vampire wives.

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Speaker 8: And I'd been stripping at the Kitcat Club in New York.

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Speaker 8: Living in New York.

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Speaker 3: Costs, you know, a kidney. And she said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I have an opportunity for you.

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Speaker 8: You are not making enough money, You're going to ruin

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Speaker 8: your knees. Why don't you come with me to this audition.

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Speaker 3: It's to go and entertain rich businessmen in Singapore, like

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Speaker 3: at a club. Now, you know, I didn't think I

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Speaker 3: was being hired to be a diplomat. I was quite

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Speaker 3: aware that something she was going on, right, So we went.

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Speaker 3: We went to the Ritz Carlton, those roomful girls, and

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Speaker 3: they asked us a bunch of questions that sort of

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Speaker 3: surprised me. I was like, is this a Peace Corps

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Speaker 3: interfew question? You can ask me if I can sing.

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Speaker 8: And dance, but like, are you comfortable with other cultures?

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Speaker 3: I was like, I love to travel, Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: love adventure. So then you know, we got our pictures

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Speaker 3: taken in our underwear and left, and I thought that

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Speaker 3: that would be it, Like they were like modely girls there,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I just felt like sort of the

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Speaker 3: runt of the bunch. And they called me and they said,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's not actually a nightclub in Singapore.

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Speaker 8: You're being invited to be the personal guest.

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Speaker 3: Of the Prince of Brunei and you will be in

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Speaker 3: the lap of luxury. And all you have to do

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Speaker 3: is go to these parties every night. Go to these

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Speaker 3: parties and do karaoke and drank and dance. And you know,

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Speaker 3: they said, no, something else is required of you. They

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Speaker 3: didn't say you will not be required to have sex

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Speaker 3: with anyone, but it was almost like assumed that that

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Speaker 3: wouldn't even come up right right as they presented it.

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Speaker 3: So I was just going to be like a piece

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Speaker 3: of candy on the edge of a couch. And I

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Speaker 3: always want to preface this four young women, anyone who's

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Speaker 3: listening to it and would tend to of course, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to tell you about a shopping trip where I

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Speaker 3: got set loose a mall full of you know, Chanelle

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Speaker 3: and Armani, and with like a bag man with a satchel.

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Speaker 2: Of cat you spit more than the mortgage on your

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Speaker 2: house and then yes, that's crazy insan.

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Speaker 3: People hear things like that and it sounds very sexy

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Speaker 3: and fun and pretty woman. And believe me, those girls

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Speaker 3: set around watching that movie all then not coming No,

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Speaker 3: I know, it's just like, yeah, he's definitely not coming

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Speaker 3: into pick you up from your job and be an

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Speaker 3: officer and a gentleman. But anyways, so, I mean, I

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Speaker 3: went to Brunei, and you know, I did what I

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Speaker 3: could to sort of protect myself.

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Speaker 8: It's easy to romanticize the fun parts.

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Speaker 3: Of it, you know, it was really dangerous the fact

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Speaker 3: that I wound up where they said I was even going,

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I mean much less. You know the

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Speaker 3: fact that they take your visa on your passport, and

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Speaker 3: you know you're under armed guard at all times. You

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Speaker 3: can't leave. You're in you know, you're in a palace

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Speaker 3: that's a prison. Yeah, but I said, yes, you know,

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Speaker 3: I told some people where I was going and just

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Speaker 3: you know, through caution to the wind.

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Speaker 8: And it was like three days after I turned eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that I was on a plane.

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Speaker 1: I have encountered people who told me about stuff like

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Speaker 1: this and definitely was the person who was like, what

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Speaker 1: was that? I want to go like your what you

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Speaker 1: your friend like went to some other country and just

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Speaker 1: like got to stay in this place and go shopping

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Speaker 1: into these lavish parties like uh yes please, you know.

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Speaker 3: But like I had some girls book parties where and

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Speaker 3: actually I just loved this so much. Like book clubs

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Speaker 3: had parties where they dressed. I just have like all

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Speaker 3: sexy had you know, Southeast Asian food and stuff.

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Speaker 5: That's fun. I love that.

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Speaker 2: The kind of uniform for when you were doing this

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Speaker 2: in New York is a very like serious suit kind

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Speaker 2: of look.

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Speaker 3: You know. It's so true, and I always sometimes i

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Speaker 3: look back on some of the pictures and I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: why are you dressed like, you know, an eighty year

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Speaker 3: old on Central park Way all buttoned up in Chanel's suits,

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Speaker 3: aging heiress. Yeah. I don't know, but I've always dressed

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Speaker 3: really modestly, and I mean not always so I've been

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Speaker 3: you know, when I'm me, I dress pretty modestly. So

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Speaker 3: it just I guess I don't know know what I thought,

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Speaker 3: But in New York, it was really important when you're

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Speaker 3: walking through hotel lobbies, you know, not.

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Speaker 9: To look like a Harper, oh really high profiletel right,

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Speaker 9: Like you did have to wear a suit or a

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Speaker 9: dress that was you know, like a preapproved.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you say, yes, what's going through your mind?

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Speaker 1: You're like, I just I want an adventure like this

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Speaker 1: sounds exciting, Like what what are your expectations?

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Speaker 8: They were like, it's You're gonna make twenty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: In two weeks.

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Speaker 1: Oh shit, I mean okay.

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Speaker 3: And that was the era of singles, when you would

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Speaker 3: have when you would go and pay for everything with singles, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, and someone said twenty thousand dollars to me

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Speaker 3: and parties and a prince. You know, it just.

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Speaker 8: Seemed, you know, risk to reward. I just went for it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But it was the money that was the tipping point.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. Can you tell us about what you

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Speaker 1: first saw, like when you get off the plane, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's that experience?

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Speaker 3: Like, well, you have to keep your head covered. I've done,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've been to several Muslim countries since and

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Speaker 3: gotten used to it. But so I'm like covering my

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Speaker 3: head and I get off the plane. I was with

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Speaker 3: the one other American girl who was going and the

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Speaker 3: sort of Madam or wrangler or you know handler. So

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Speaker 3: you know, I wasn't alone, but it was very confusing.

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Speaker 3: And then we get to the baggage claim and it is.

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Speaker 6: Like wall sized, entire wall mural of the Sultan and

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Speaker 6: his first two wives and like everywhere you look.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and this is the prince's brother and it's the

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Speaker 2: prince's older brother and he is the richest man in

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Speaker 2: the world at this.

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Speaker 3: Time, at that time. Yeah, my Bill Gates bumped him.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this man's brother is just like on the

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Speaker 2: wall of the airport.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Crazy, he's the face on the money, right. And

353
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Speaker 3: they made me take the line out of the book.

354
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Speaker 3: They didn't like it. But I had had a line

355
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Speaker 3: in the book that was like, well, at least I

356
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Speaker 3: fucked a guy who's on money. Not everyone can say that.

357
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Speaker 2: That's true, Like maybe who was Queen Elizabeth's husband, Prince

358
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Speaker 2: Philip or whatever, Maybe he can say it, but yeah,

359
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 2: that's you know, it's a rare thing.

360
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Speaker 3: So, you know, they put each of us in separate cars,

361
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Speaker 3: so we were met by you know, like the Secret Service,

362
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Speaker 3: and I was just so I just remember, like I

363
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Speaker 3: was so stupid, like I'm surprised at myself, you know,

364
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Speaker 3: when I have a little conversation with myself about some

365
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Speaker 3: of my choices. But you know, they put us in

366
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Speaker 3: separate cars, they take your passport, and I was not

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Speaker 3: aware that that was going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So this is like a government anctioned situation, like the

369
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Speaker 1: whole government is involved in orchestrating like these women.

370
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Speaker 3: For yes, three of the brothers would the Sultan very

371
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Speaker 3: very rarely, but Prince Jeffrey and his brother, Prince Sufree

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Speaker 3: we called him Ben. We're at the parties all the time,

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Speaker 3: and I think it was more Jeffrey's circle, his kind

374
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Speaker 3: of organization that through the parties. And I mean basically

375
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Speaker 3: there was just this palace with like eight guest houses

376
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Speaker 3: eight ten I don't remember, you know that are actually

377
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Speaker 3: maybe my house now. This house might be as big

378
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Speaker 3: as never in my life. And it was a pleasure palace,

379
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Speaker 3: you know. I always called Xanadu that poem would run

380
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 3: through my head so much when I looked around, you know,

381
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Speaker 3: you know, and Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure

382
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 3: dome decree and it really felt like that. And so

383
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Speaker 3: we were driven into the palace, and you know, and

384
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Speaker 3: there's a wall. It's way way way out in the rainforest,

385
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 3: and you know, and there's a wall around it that

386
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no getting out.

387
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Speaker 2: And it's interesting that all of these steps along the

388
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Speaker 2: way are just more and more indoctrination of you into

389
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Speaker 2: this is so important, this is so he's on the wall,

390
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: there's a palace, there's a wall. So you're just subconsciously

391
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Speaker 2: getting like pulled deeper into this world, I would assume.

392
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Speaker 3: And controlled right, rightly, controlled, right, like when I realized

393
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Speaker 3: that I gave up all control totally.

394
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Speaker 8: There's the one phone in the.

395
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Speaker 3: Main hallway Employer, which is like all made of marble,

396
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 3: you know, any conversation you have. I mean that everything's

397
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: very closely monitored. There's cameras all over. Eventually that drove

398
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 3: me really crazy. Wow, in your bedroom, in your bathroom.

399
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, in the bathroom.

400
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: Yes, And it was like, I think it just started

401
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 3: to eat away at my sanity slowly.

402
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: How could it not.

403
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, everything was so new, and I kind of like

404
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 3: just wanted to be the best at it. I wanted

405
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 3: to be the hottest that night. I wanted to eat

406
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 3: like somehow some.

407
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:20,679
Speaker 8: Little fiery thing in me.

408
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 3: Okay, well, if I'm here, I'm gonna win this thing.

409
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Speaker 1: It even just reminds me of like I have friends

410
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: who've done those karaoke hostessing in LA. For anyone who

411
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: doesn't know what that is, it's like they basically cast girls.

412
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: They put them in a bus or whatever or van,

413
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Speaker 1: and they take them to these karaoke bars and like

414
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 1: have the girls kind of go through the different private

415
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Speaker 1: rooms and they'll be hired or not be hired. And

416
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Speaker 1: from what I've heard about what that experience is like,

417
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: which can often turn into sex work and can get

418
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: very dangerous for the girls. And this is right here

419
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 1: in LA, but not always, of course, but even for

420
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: the girls who don't really want to be there and

421
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: they're just there out of desperation. As soon as they

422
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: get there, they're like, well, why isn't why aren't they picky?

423
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Speaker 3: Exactly in the game fast if you're a player.

424
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Speaker 5: Right right.

425
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: You also compared it to being on the Bachelor, which

426
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: seemed like such an apt comparison. Can you just like

427
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 1: describe those parallels a little bit?

428
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 8: So I met the guy who invented the Bachelor.

429
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 3: Random mind knows him, and I was at this party

430
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Speaker 3: with him. I saw you did a podcast on the

431
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 3: dark Triad, So I just talked to doctor Dell Paulis,

432
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: you know, for a long time, and he's talking about

433
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: a dark tet trad with the fourth being casual sadism. Oh,

434
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 3: and he did an experiment with a bug grinder. You

435
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 3: could choose to put these cockroaches who were named Muffin,

436
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: Tutsi and ike like you use either put them in

437
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: a giant fake coffee grinder and grind them, or submerge

438
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 3: your hands in ice water for a minute, or go

439
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 3: clean toilets.

440
00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.

441
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 3: Oh, you could also pick being a bug grinding helper.

442
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: Interesting.

443
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 3: So the people who picked you know, grinding the bugs

444
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 3: enjoyed the test much much more and expressed no remarks.

445
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: So he is really playing with this idea of sort

446
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 3: of pushing people like normal people, not psychopath people necessarily

447
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: like or people that we recognize as that or violent

448
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: in any obvious way in their everyday life. There are

449
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 3: sort of a spectrum of how cruel people enjoy being.

450
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: Right, Wow, that's fascinating.

451
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 3: And I ran into that Bacher guy that night at

452
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 3: some premiere and he walked up to me, and we

453
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,159
Speaker 3: were talking and I said, like, what do you think

454
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: of casual sadism? Like everyday sadism? And he was like

455
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 3: huh what And he's like, you know, I invented the bachelor.

456
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: And I was like, huh, that's really clever. That was

457
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 3: a really clever response. But that was not what he

458
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 3: was responding to. He was not saying the bachelor is

459
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,719
Speaker 3: the diistic, which it is, and what did somebody call it?

460
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 3: Like the crypto Malaysian Bachelor. It's like something crypto homo.

461
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 3: I can't even remember, but it was.

462
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: It was good, and I mean you were like an

463
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 2: activist and a very political person, a.

464
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 8: Little punk rocker. Yeah, was like eat the rich.

465
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 3: I would like get on buses and go down to Washington,

466
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 3: DC to protest when I was like fourteen, you know. Yeah,

467
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: I did a lot of advocacy work when they were

468
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 3: hitting abortion clinics during the Democratic Convention. I can't remember

469
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 3: which one, you know, when we would all go at

470
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: like six in the morning and lock arms and you

471
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: know and help people get into clinics and not get harassed.

472
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: Tack amazing.

473
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had I mean before I started stripping, you know,

474
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: like I had one pair of heels. They were like

475
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: two inch that I had for temple where had like

476
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: giant loose sight platforms. But that's the same person, the

477
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: person who you know, was an actress, Like she was

478
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 3: still there like looking. I mean when I had that

479
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 3: shopping trip, because I am no fun, I just wept,

480
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: Like I went home and I went back to my

481
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: room and I looked and there were like.

482
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 10: Twenty suitcases lined up, and I just like wept for

483
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 10: the absolute decadence of it, for the fact that I

484
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 10: couldn't enjoy it, like I'd just been given a.

485
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 3: Dream come true. And all I could think is like

486
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: the money I just spent on gowns could feed, you know,

487
00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: and and that kind of a plus people see thinking

488
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: isn't right, you know, it's not correct. So I'm like,

489
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 3: if I didn't, you know, me getting those gowns didn't

490
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 3: keep food out of anyone's mouth.

491
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 2: He's going to spend it on a girl one way

492
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: or the other exactly.

493
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 3: And I was always I looked at it very critically,

494
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: and the book is very critical, not critical in a

495
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: negative way necessarily, But I was watching and I was

496
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: listening the whole time, and I was, you know, there

497
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: was still that part of me that was like thinking

498
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: critically and able to function, and that of course that

499
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 3: punk rock girl is the one who got plane to

500
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: go on a suthing. Yeah, no, I was like I

501
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 3: want to see it. Yeah, who what does that look like?

502
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: That makes sense to me. And also like, no matter

503
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: how anti capitalist you are, we all still have to

504
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: survive somehow and like make that money, and sometimes those

505
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: options are limited, and so like I understand why someone

506
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: offers you twenty thousand dollars, You're like, fuck, yeah, take

507
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars. I still live in a capitalist society,

508
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 1: Like what am I going to do? Like yeah, system by.

509
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 5: Water, Yeah, totally.

510
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: And it just changed.

511
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 8: And also, you know it was not my priority.

512
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 3: You know, my focus got roll tight because it was

513
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: like they are arrows coming from all sides all the time,

514
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: and there was sort of a hyper vigilance that I

515
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: developed that still plagues me to this day. That's very

516
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 3: common for trauma victims. You're terrified, pid all the time, and.

517
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 8: So sometimes it can make it hard to be in

518
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 8: the moment.

519
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure. So, like you start going to these parties,

520
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: like what is it like in the beginning what's an

521
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: average party like at this place?

522
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: So we would go to about ten pm. At the

523
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 3: first time I saw it, it was like it looked

524
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 3: like something out of a Laddin. You know. They were

525
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 3: like homes everywhere and ribbons of staircases curling up to

526
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: the entryway. And the entry was enormous fountain with a

527
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: tiger with a ruby in its mouth the size of a.

528
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: Wow, Ennis ball does sound beautiful and like Aladdin.

529
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 3: I was just like, there's gonna be a busby Berkeley

530
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: number where, you know, like girls and hair and pants come.

531
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 3: And his art collection was like because I knew what

532
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 3: I was looking at.

533
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 5: He had a Picasso.

534
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: He had numerous Picassos, Like, wow, there's just sort of

535
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: a lesser Precasso over there by the.

536
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: Bathroom, right, oh my gosh.

537
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: And the art was really stunning. His art collection is amazing,

538
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: and he had some of his best art there because

539
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: that was his fun place, and he really did love

540
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 3: the art. He knew a lot about it. You know,

541
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 3: he wasn't just some like rich guy who had somebody

542
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: else by the stuff right, move into it. Yeah, the

543
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 3: art was fantastic. And then you know they take us

544
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: to this ballroom which has these low couches and tables

545
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 3: all around, and then a big dance floor with all

546
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: the disco ball and everything.

547
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 5: So it's like a club.

548
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: It's like a club, and it's all just women lounging

549
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: around on this couches the whole, Like the first part

550
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: of the night is karaoke, and that's like before the

551
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: men arrive, so you never really know when they're gonna arrive.

552
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: You get there at ten, they could be there a

553
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: mid nights and we're all just stuck there, like being

554
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 3: paradise by the dashboard light. You really haven't lived until

555
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 3: you've seen, you know, fifteen year old tie sex slaves

556
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: perform barely seventeen and barely dressed, Oh my god, and

557
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: not speak English. They just learned it phonetically.

558
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 5: Oh wow.

559
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: There was some really stun moments like that. And then

560
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: the men arrived. And the men are he and his entourage,

561
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 3: and it's usually about ten or twelve guys, and you know,

562
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: his like main advisor and his right hand man and

563
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: his sneaky guy who goes and does all his sneaky shit.

564
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: And it's like, you know, people like to play squash

565
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 3: with and they're all in sweats. They come in sweats.

566
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: Oh wow, like some guy ritchie shit, and.

567
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 5: You're in literal gowns.

568
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: And then there are live singers and then they start

569
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: the dancing at the end of the night. And during

570
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 3: this time the men are circulating with the women. The

571
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: men they can have a girlfriend among the women. They're

572
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 3: about thirty women there at any given time, and so

573
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: they would have girlfriends, but like one, just okay, But

574
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: they couldn't have American girls. We were off limits. Why

575
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 3: I don't know, because we were a new thing for them.

576
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: They hadn't had any American women. Women there before are

577
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 3: Western women, you know, and I think they were cautious.

578
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: And also, you know, we were like fresh meat rights rights,

579
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: and we were for him. And they would dance, you know,

580
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: slow dance with their girlfriends. We'd all get drunken dance.

581
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: At some point in the ninety leaves with somebody and

582
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: then he comes back or he doesn't, but the whoever

583
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: he leaves with has to come back. It just gets

584
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: like very hunger gamy really fast. Oh, I'm sure, because

585
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: if you become a favorite, then you're a threat to

586
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: this person. This person, this person, they've been there longer.

587
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so Bachelor. It's so Bachelor, so.

588
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 3: Bachelor, but like the prizes are bigger.

589
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: And the stakes are bigger because you have no passport

590
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 2: in a foreign country. Oh yeah yeah, a family that's

591
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: probably very dangerous.

592
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: You're an actual danger Yeah yeah.

593
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: I was just like, I'm under armed guard and no

594
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 3: one knows I can be and who would be responsible

595
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: if I disappeared. No one's yelling the wall for me.

596
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: When I thought about it like that, it was scary. Then,

597
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: because I know where the story is going, I'll skip

598
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: to the good part. It was after about two weeks

599
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 3: of that, I was getting ready to go home and

600
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 3: I was like, okay, I'll get the cash. I'd seen

601
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: other girls go home and get a very nice piece

602
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: of jewelry, like a Rolex watch, so you know, I

603
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: was like fine.

604
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 11: My bags were packed, and that morning there was like

605
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 11: a bang, bang bang, bank bang on my bedroom door,

606
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 11: and I went running and I answered it and it was.

607
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: A guard and he was like, why aren't you ready?

608
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: And I was like, my plane doesn't leave until two o'clocks,

609
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: like nine o'clock in the morning. No one told me

610
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: I had to be. He's like, she's like put on

611
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: a dress, no high shoes because the princess not very tall,

612
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 3: No tall shoes, and no makeup, Like I'm so sure

613
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 3: I go to the bathroom with no makeup on? No

614
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, yeah yeah. But Jeffrey just didn't like a

615
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: lot of makeup and not, like he just said of

616
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 3: like preferred like a little bit simpler, and.

617
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 5: He preferred that you he not know that you're wearing

618
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 5: makeup exactly.

619
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: Talked to my boyfriend about that all the time. You

620
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: like the makeup, you just don't want to notice it.

621
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 8: And he also like was like you're too thin.

622
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 3: I mean, if you really want to stock home syndrome,

623
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: keep telling them they're too thin.

624
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

625
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: But anyway, so bangy mag I get ready, I get

626
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: in the car and I'm just like, where are we going?

627
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: And they drove into the main city. And there were

628
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: two times there in the year and a half that

629
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: I was really scared, and this was one of them.

630
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: And the other one was when I got into an

631
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,239
Speaker 3: elevator and they pushed the button for the roof and

632
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 3: I had like three guards around me, and I was

633
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 3: just like, what the fuck is on the roof? Like

634
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: why are they taking me to the roof? It was

635
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 3: a helicopter. So we took to this office building, got

636
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: in an elevator with me, took my purse, and then

637
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: put me in this room. It was like an office,

638
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: except it was this giant, lavish sitting room. It was freezing,

639
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: and they locked me in and there was no bathroom

640
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 3: and I waited there.

641
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 8: I had no idea what I was waiting for.

642
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: I waited for like six hours, wow, and this freezing

643
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 3: around in his freezing room with no bathroom, Like I

644
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 3: was ready to pee. I almost peeed in that trash

645
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: can in then I fell asleep, like I just you know,

646
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: I curled up on one of the couches and just

647
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 3: like shut myself down. And when I woke up, you know,

648
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 3: he had opened the door, and you know, like I

649
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 3: sat up and I was like a little flustered, and

650
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 3: he was in the full military regalia, covered in metals,

651
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 3: and he's very sharp, like nehreo collar and you know,

652
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: a smart hat. I was just like, WHOA.

653
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: I mean, when you see somebody wearing a lab jacket,

654
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 2: You're like, you're a doctor, you know, I trust you.

655
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 5: When you see somebody on that, I don't even know

656
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 5: what you're like, you're.

657
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: A prince and I am I am freezing idiot.

658
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, you're a prince and I just have

659
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: to pee so bad, you know, Like I sit down

660
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 3: next to me, there's like the only thing in my boy.

661
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I know when I hear that story, like it sounds terrifying,

662
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: but the part that resonates to me is like, oh no,

663
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: how but how do you pee? How does that end up?

664
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: But you know, the thing is to talk about mind control,

665
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: to torture somebody, you know, with a lack of certain

666
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 3: and tea with fear, with discomfort, like the person who

667
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 3: locked you up. You're not thinking when they come save

668
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: you that they locked you up in the first place.

669
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 3: You're just like my savior and literally human, fundamental, primal

670
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 3: thing to identify with your captor.

671
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 5: So did you find yourself closer to him after that moment?

672
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 3: Well, we kissed and then he took me into the

673
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 3: other room. And the other room the joining room was

674
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 3: this bedroom that was like padded silk walls and video

675
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 3: cameras everywhere and this golden jeweled chest set, you know,

676
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 3: and I was looking at like, who are you playing chess?

677
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 3: Smithy near mirror over the bed. It's the bed is

678
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 3: the worst and uh, you know we had sex.

679
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: Did you talk? Were you having like did you connect?

680
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 3: Well? No, not beforehand. I mean I was like just

681
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 3: thrilled he was talking to me. Never talked to me

682
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: before other than like welcome me to his country. I

683
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: just you know, thought I was like chopliver right, And

684
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 3: he just said like, oh, I hear you're an actress.

685
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 3: I really enjoy actresses. They have many feelings. And then

686
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 3: he said, and I also her you do some of this.

687
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: And I was just like, well, like who would have

688
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 3: told him?

689
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 8: And of course it was one of the other girls.

690
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 5: He was referring to what you were doing back in

691
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 5: New York.

692
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 3: Uh huh, I had been doing sex work, like so

693
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: I hear you do some of this, so like, so

694
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: now I'm just about to treat you like aprostut. And

695
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 3: then he dropped one shoulder my dress and I dropped

696
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: the other one and was just like, what am I

697
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: gonna do? Be like, you know what bands are you into?

698
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 3: I mean we did later, we you know, we really talked.

699
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 5: You guys get like a bond going.

700
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: We really did, like I go like a couple months

701
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 3: or lass weeks even from that first day, you know,

702
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 3: I would have told you I was in love with him, right,

703
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: Like it became my normal so quickly. The sitting room

704
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 3: was like picture after picture after picture of his wives

705
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 3: and kids.

706
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 5: That's wild.

707
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he's a lot of fourth wife and so

708
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 3: time he only had three wives, very tense time in

709
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: the harem because for a fourth wife, it's possible, you could,

710
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, pick from amongst the girls. Right, eventually he

711
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 3: married the singer. Oh, the singer got the rock at

712
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: the end. These live singers were not they were not

713
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 3: in the game at all. They were there to sing, right,

714
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: And Prince Sufrey had was covered in boils.

715
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: This is a different prince. This is his brother, one

716
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: of the older brothers.

717
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,959
Speaker 3: He had throat cancers. So you know he talked through

718
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 3: a box. And yeah, it's just like whatever imbreeding. He

719
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: got like every bad thing. And of course he was

720
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 3: the nicest one, right, you know, you get some empathy,

721
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 3: I guess right, right, you know, I wouldn't say that

722
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: Prince Jeffrey was real strong in the empathy department. Quite

723
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 3: the opposite. So he was in love with one of

724
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: the singers and he would like bring her gifts she

725
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: wouldn't accept, and like she just told him no, and

726
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: she broke his little heart. You know, I was just like, Wow,

727
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: you might be the only brother who's going to have

728
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: that human experience. Right, everyone's an object, you could buy

729
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: anything and anyone.

730
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 2: Part of his pleasure here is him watching you guys

731
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: fight for him and like him watching the drama unfold, like, oh,

732
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: I'm paying attention to her.

733
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 5: So now she's upset.

734
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: And he would punish you by just ignoring you and

735
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: flirting with other women.

736
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 3: He would punish, but he would also like manipulate the

737
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: girls to really fight, you know, like get their claws out.

738
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 8: We'd have a really intimate moment or so.

739
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 3: It's something that felt real, you know. Then you know,

740
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 3: for the next four days he wouldn't talk to me

741
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 3: and would go and would and would take the person

742
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: I hate in the most out of the room with him,

743
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 3: and I had to sit there.

744
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 5: He loved it.

745
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: So sociopathic.

746
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm a diagnostician, but you know, I've had a

747
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: lot of experience with sociopaths. Psychopaths, same thing I think,

748
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: But you know there's some debate about that. I don't know.

749
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 3: I'm just like a psycho magnet, but I consider I'm

750
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: a psychopath. I mean certainly Macavelian, and I mean he's

751
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: the definition.

752
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: It's like all of the Dark Triad, like all of

753
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: those qualities.

754
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's really he's got it all. In space. Annie

755
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 3: was embezzling like nine billion dollars this whole time.

756
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: Nine billion. Oh my god, he got pop for it.

757
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: Oh shit, Yeah, I got exiled from the country for

758
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: a while.

759
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: Oh wow. I'm curious about your relationship with the other

760
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: girls besides the ones that you hit, Like, did you

761
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: develop friendships? Did you for many connections?

762
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 3: I'm still friends and one of them is a little

763
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: bit more connected. She was like the blonde, fun one

764
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 3: who's friends with everybody and did really really well there Relia. Yes, okay,

765
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 3: but she was sort of friends with everyone, and I

766
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: love how you know that characters.

767
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 5: I reather it again last night, guys, I got excited.

768
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: Skimmed it. But it makes you cueazy to skim her

769
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: own work.

770
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: Oh you notice everything I couldn't. I can't.

771
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: Narcissistic self pity torture. That's brilliant. But anyway, you know,

772
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 3: I'm still in touch with her.

773
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 12: And then one of the more interesting things that happened

774
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 12: post publishing this which was a hailstorm from every side

775
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 12: that like no one expected. I reached out to the

776
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 12: woman in the book, who's Tailor's who's the one who

777
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 12: set me up with all this in the first place,

778
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 12: And she's not presented particularly favorably in the book. I

779
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 12: think she's an intriguing character, but like she did sort

780
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 12: of draw me into this world, and then she extorted

781
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 12: money from.

782
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 9: Me, you know, like I got you that job, I

783
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 9: should get a cut.

784
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 3: So she saw an article on Marie Claire. I was

785
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 3: trying to think the order of how this happened, saw

786
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 3: an article in Marie Claire and got in touch with

787
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: me and said, you know, I've been looking for you.

788
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: You know, I've always thought about you over the years.

789
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: How are you. I saw you wrote this book. I'm

790
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 3: so proud of you, and I was just like, Taylor,

791
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 3: I'm not doing this for anybody. I didn't do this

792
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 3: for anyone, not for my parents, not for anyone. I

793
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 3: showed her a galley before it came out, because I

794
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 3: was like, I think you need to know what's in

795
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 3: this book before you get all into yeah excited.

796
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.

797
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: I just felt I owed her that, and like I said,

798
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 3: she's the only person I did that with. I do

799
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: not run my manuscripts by anybody. No one gets an

800
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: input because once you start giving people input what you

801
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 3: can include.

802
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 8: I just think you become coy and dishonest.

803
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I just I write my work and

804
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: I stand by it, you know, and when I write

805
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 3: about living people, I do it in a very conscious way.

806
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: I gave her the word and she got back to

807
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: me and we had the greatest talk. And we're friendly.

808
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 3: I mean, like, what friends do I see, I'm so busy,

809
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 3: but you know, like we touched base once in a

810
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 3: while and she apologized to me, you know, she said, yeah,

811
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: I never meant to hurt you, and I'm sorry. And

812
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 3: I was just like wow. And she had no like

813
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 3: she had no complaints about the character. She'd not like

814
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 3: like she really took it well. Wow, you know, like

815
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: with a lot of dignity. That's hard to do. I

816
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 3: mean I get written about poorly and it's like the

817
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 3: steam comes out of your ear. Yeah, it's hard to

818
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: get a town. And we do have an anomaly. I'm

819
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: always just like, no one finishes medical school. Who's stripping

820
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 3: their way through medical school and it doesn't happen. We

821
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 3: had kind of doctor.

822
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 5: Hey, Taylor became a doctor.

823
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, one woman went home took that money and put

824
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: herself in medical school.

825
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: That's amazing, awesome, it really does happened time.

826
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: Wow.

827
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: I just want to like make a super little meta

828
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: point really quickly, which is that I didn't finish the

829
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: book last night. So I'm not sure if you have

830
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: this in the book or if I've read this in

831
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 2: an article a long time ago, but I just remember

832
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 2: reading how mad your parents were about this book. And

833
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: there is this very like cult family secret you can't

834
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: tell thing that you also broke free from, which was like,

835
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: you know, we're all in the cults of our family

836
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,959
Speaker 2: and our family secrets, and you put it all out there,

837
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: and they were pissed, so pissed.

838
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,959
Speaker 3: And you know, I didn't put it all out there

839
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: because I'm a confessional memoirist. You know, I do other

840
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: things too, you know, I also write fiction, and that's

841
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: my nature, that's what I gravitate towards. So you know,

842
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: I am going to piss people off, you know. But

843
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: the idea that can like I take my diaries and

844
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 3: just transcribe is not true at all. Like these are

845
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: crafted crafted and crafted narratives. You know, there's a ton

846
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: I left out about my parents and the scene that

847
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: I almost cut and like it was to the last

848
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: drop dead, last copy at a minute, and I remember

849
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: that I was had my head on the dining room

850
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 3: table and I was just weeping because you know, my

851
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 3: dad was very physically abusive, and there was this time

852
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: that he strangled me and like you know, had me

853
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 3: down the floor, repeatedly hit me in the face, and

854
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: I almost took it out, but Scott said, this is

855
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: my husband. You could be helping so many people with

856
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: the story, or.

857
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 8: You could protect one guy in New Jersey.

858
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 3: Who did these things. He did these things. I'm sorry,

859
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: Like I think it was Gary Stenger or something said,

860
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: you know, like there's a dedication in one of his

861
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 3: books is an apology to his parents for having a

862
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: memoirized in the family. It took like five years until

863
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 3: it began to take it graciously and I began to

864
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 3: talk to my parents again.

865
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 5: There's just so many different lives. I mean, yeah, there's

866
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 5: an eating disorder too.

867
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: There's just so many different little culty things that were

868
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 2: going on in your life that you were running up against.

869
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: So you guys are sleeping together now, you and Jeffrey,

870
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: and you're just getting deeper and deeper into this world.

871
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 3: Right, So this is when I started to spiral. You know,

872
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: we had a doctor there who was prescribing us diet.

873
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: Pills, even though he wanted you to be less skinny.

874
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 3: Well, you know, we could talk the doctor into anything,

875
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 3: like he just gave you what you want. He's give

876
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 3: me his diet pills and anti anxiety. I don't know

877
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 3: what the fuck they are. You know, they were like

878
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: not medicines I recognized. I think it's like fenter meine

879
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 3: or something like whole, like like housewife, you know.

880
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 8: And then we're drinking every night and he's driving me nuts,

881
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 8: like really nuts.

882
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: I started like go into a deep depression. You know,

883
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 3: I was sleeping all day. The girls were so mean

884
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 3: because I was really I wasn't his favorite favorite. His

885
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 3: number one. Uh Fiona was a Filippina soapa practice.

886
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, yeah, and she's a very good friend of mine.

887
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 3: I always think that I was like the number two

888
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: favorite girlfriend because I was number two favorite for a while,

889
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: like because she picked me, not because he because we

890
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 3: had to go on trips together, and you know, because

891
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 3: we were the entourage. I think that we enjoyed each

892
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 3: other's company a lot. And I didn't threaten her spot.

893
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 3: I didn't want her spot, you know, and she didn't

894
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: want anyone around who wanted her spot, right, you know.

895
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: So I spent a lot of time with her. She

896
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 3: really taught me how to walk in heels better. So

897
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 3: that first trip, you know, I really spiraled and I

898
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: was just like, I have to go home. I have

899
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 3: to go home. I have to home, And in my mind,

900
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 3: I was like never coming back. What I was going

901
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: through is exactly what you're saying. And now I look

902
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: back and I'm like stupid as that doctor for some

903
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 3: anti depressants and sucked it up. But my journals from

904
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 3: that time are just like this isn't me. I cannot

905
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: do it. I am a person with dreams, yeah you

906
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 3: and like like slowly I could just feel them like

907
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 3: seeping out of me. I had been so driven around

908
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 3: acting and writing, you know, and just theater in general,

909
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: like I thought I might want direct I you know,

910
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 3: I had been going to New York City.

911
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: You're a NYU sixteen, right, You're an ambitious girl, yeah.

912
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 3: And you know, and all that work and not that

913
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 3: I ever regret. You know that I don't act anymore.

914
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: I mean I get I get it. I get enough

915
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 3: through the storytelling of being on the stage right and

916
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: I love it, and you know, I'm not just not

917
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 3: an actor anymore.

918
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 13: But like that dream was just like sliding away. I'd

919
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 13: been working on my French for a really long time.

920
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 13: I wanted to really want to go to Paris. I

921
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 13: was gonna use the money to take a trip to Paris.

922
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 13: That was, you know, And it had been six.

923
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 3: Months, six months, yeah, from two weeks and so you know,

924
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 3: I made up a story that you know, my father

925
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 3: was dying. I had to go home and see him

926
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 3: or something. I you know, I I cried, like I

927
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 3: pitched fits, I find you know. They finally let me

928
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: go home for two weeks, and I didn't go back

929
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: for a really long time.

930
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: I didn't realize you went home in between, and I.

931
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 3: Had a return ticket I didn't use, and I was

932
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 3: just like I am out. And I think this is

933
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 3: really important important to understand, and especially if you're talking

934
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: to you know, victims of control of sex trafficking abuse,

935
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 3: like our language becomes so reticent, you know, to talk

936
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 3: about ourselves as victims. And first of all, I hate that,

937
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 3: and I never say, you know, I'm a survivor, but

938
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 3: because it was so so nuanced, and I was so complicit,

939
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: because I loved him, you know, and that I didn't

940
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 3: really feel I mean, I felt trapped and I felt

941
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: scared sometimes, but I didn't see the situ what the

942
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 3: situation was until I got some distance. Really, I just

943
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 3: knew I had to get out, right. Yeah, I was

944
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 3: looking back that I really saw what had happened to me.

945
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 3: But what's important to understand is that people go back

946
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 3: all the time. Yeah, you know, this is a big

947
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,720
Speaker 3: thing with organizations that you know, try to help women

948
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 3: out of sex trafficking. What you don't understand. You see

949
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 3: in the movies, you know, oh they found some container

950
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 3: full of girls, and you know, and and then that's

951
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 3: the end of it, the cops, the hero, that's the

952
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 3: end of the scene. Well, it's not the end of

953
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 3: the scene for that tanner full of girls. Were they

954
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 3: gonna do? Yeah, yeah, you know, and the same thing

955
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 3: with the massage parlors and the nal salons, and you

956
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 3: know that where else are they gonna go? What are

957
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 3: they gonna do?

958
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: Well, especially when they're in a completely foreigned place and

959
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: don't have a support system, and maybe don't speak the language.

960
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many reasons.

961
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 3: I just went and saw a young woman who has

962
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 3: a daughter of an old friend of mine, who I

963
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 3: heard was, you know, living in a horrible crack hotel

964
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 3: and a prostitute, and you know, and I went down

965
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 3: and talked to her, and just like she cannot get

966
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 3: away from this man. I brought her every phone number

967
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 3: in the world, you know, gave her a hamburger and

968
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: some pants. Lord, but you know, and I sat down

969
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 3: and I heard her story, and I just heard her

970
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 3: going back over and over again, and not even to

971
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: one man. You know, these men who control her and

972
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 3: use her and send her out to do sex work

973
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 3: to keep their habit going. And now she bought a gun.

974
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, so I'm going to tell.

975
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 8: You that this is the part of the story where

976
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 8: you're going to die.

977
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 3: This is where you're gonna die, because when you're living

978
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 3: like this and you're buying a gun and you're talking

979
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,439
Speaker 3: about rolling tricks, like now, you're gonna die, Like maybe

980
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: leave your piece in the drawer and keep breathing, you know,

981
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 3: until you're ready to call this number and maybe don't

982
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 3: mention this conversation. I knew that was what was going

983
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 3: to happen. I didn't think she was going to be like,

984
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 3: thank you, I love it.

985
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: Okay, y'all stay tuned for a part two next week.

986
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into more or shits with Gillian Meghan.

987
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: So can you please tell me do you think that

988
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: this would be the kind of situation that you might

989
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: find yourself in?

990
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I can't believe I'd never told you this

991
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: before because I mentioned it to you and you were.

992
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 5: Like, what.

993
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: But essentially, when I was in college, I don't think

994
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to say the name of the man just

995
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: because I want to get a little bit more intel

996
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: and if we signed in DA's But there was a

997
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 2: billionaire who lived in the Midwest and he would hire

998
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 2: college girls to spend the summer on his essentially yacht

999
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: where he would have all these business people come and

1000
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 2: you would get paid in cash.

1001
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 5: Every single day.

1002
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: The difference was you weren't allowed to sleep with anyone

1003
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 2: one girl did you get sent back immediately?

1004
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 5: So it was just you were eye candy.

1005
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: So wait, so you were paid by just like a guy,

1006
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: or like by a company a guy a guy, Yeah,

1007
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: just to be there and.

1008
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 5: Look hot, promoting his brand.

1009
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: H oh Like okay, so like throwing March off the

1010
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: boat okay March girl.

1011
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like driving a fucking jet skier around being an idiot,

1012
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: that kind of shit.

1013
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: I've been hired in a similar capacity. I used to,

1014
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: Like when I was broke as fuck, I would be

1015
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: on Model Mayhem all the time, like scrounging for random

1016
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: little job opportunities, and boy did I end up in

1017
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: some shady situations, I will tell you. But one of

1018
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: the like recurring things that would happen was I would

1019
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: get hired to like be at a party or like right,

1020
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, just like make a brand look good

1021
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: or whatever. But certainly not like at a mansion.

1022
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: Like I mean, we had our own, just like she

1023
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: was talking about. He lived in a mansion, and then

1024
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: there was like five smaller mansions, and we had our

1025
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: house and we had to stay there.

1026
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 5: We weren't.

1027
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 2: Most of us had boyfriends who also worked in the

1028
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 2: same town for the summer, either on the boat, docking

1029
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: the boat, in the bars, but we weren't allowed to

1030
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: go see them.

1031
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 5: We had to stay there and it was just so.

1032
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: But you weren't allowed to go see your boyfriends.

1033
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: Oh no, when we were on the compound. We were

1034
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 2: on the compound. You couldn't leave until you weren't working.

1035
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 2: They'd be like, you're working four days this week.

1036
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 1: Oh so for those four days you're basically confined to

1037
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: the confined completely.

1038
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 5: Wow.

1039
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: And were they throwing parties like at the houses?

1040
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 5: What was happening not not on the houses, was always

1041
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 5: on the boat.

1042
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: So we would just like get on the stupid boat

1043
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: and there'd always be like a different group of guests

1044
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 2: that he would be entertaining.

1045
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I have to say. It's the fact that

1046
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 1: you weren't allowed to sleep with anyone is like heads

1047
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: buzz above all the other situations, but are so weird.

1048
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was very strange.

1049
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad you made it out.

1050
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 5: Okay, thank you. He did.

1051
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 2: He did once ask me to wrap him in saran

1052
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 2: wrap and poke a hole for his mouth, But that

1053
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 2: was the only sexual advance that I got the whole time,

1054
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:52,560
Speaker 2: and I did it for two summers.

1055
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: Did you wrap him in saran rap?

1056
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 5: I didn't, No, I didn't.

1057
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: Okay, I thought that you were saying for a second

1058
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: that you wrapped him in saran wrap for two and

1059
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: I was now.

1060
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, you're hilarious, like good one, Oh

1061
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: my god. Yeah, I do not need to kill someone

1062
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 2: on accident, a billionaire and you.

1063
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 1: Know, no, no, no, let's not do that.

1064
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 5: I'm good on that. Yeah, you can do that to yourself.

1065
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I have so many more things to

1066
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: say about creepy Richmond and the things that they do,

1067
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: but we can save that for next week.

1068
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 5: Let us do that.

1069
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 2: Wonderful Okay, love it. We will see you here next week.

1070
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 2: For now, remember to follow your gut, watch out for

1071
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 2: red flags, and never ever trust me.

1072
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 6: Borye