Speaker 1: Hey, Billy's does something like that. Yeah, we're company as
Speaker 1: like some sealteen six. When are they going to point
Speaker 1: to George being part of this conspiracy? Hannah replies, I
Speaker 1: won't sign papers. Ever, it won't happen. They will have
Speaker 1: to kill me first. This is the Piked and Massacre
Speaker 1: Returned to Pike County season four, episode twelve, Closing in
Speaker 1: on the Wagners. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: Katy Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the
Speaker 1: middle of George Wagner the Fourth trial. It's important to
Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the Fourth, along with his father
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and
Speaker 1: have pleaded not guilty to all charges. So far, there's
Speaker 1: been hours of testimony by investigators and relatives that have
Speaker 1: painted a very real portrait of what the crime scenes
Speaker 1: look like. But while prosecutors have laid out the grizzly
Speaker 1: details of the murderers, they have yet to connect George
Speaker 1: Wagner the Fourth to the killings. We're in the state
Speaker 1: side of the case is a state ready to call
Speaker 1: another witness special prosecutor and jaw Kneppa call Special Agent
Speaker 1: John Jenkins of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations more
Speaker 1: commonly known as the BCI. Jenkins sports a trimmed goatee
Speaker 1: and looks every bit the veteran investigator he is. In
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, just four months after the brutal murders, Jenkins
Speaker 1: interviewed the Wagner family's father, Billy. You can find Billy
Speaker 1: Wagner's raw audio of his conversation with special agents on
Speaker 1: our Apple Plus True Crime subscription page. A link to
Speaker 1: that page is included in this episode's description. Today's attention
Speaker 1: turned to a police interview with the defendant's father, Billy Wagner.
Speaker 1: He was best friends with one of the victims, Chris Roden.
Speaker 1: I mean his interview, he provide some insights that could
Speaker 1: not only help the prosecution, but could also be useful
Speaker 1: for the defense. BCI agents had spent months trying to
Speaker 1: speak to Billy Wagner. Jenkins testified that Wagner seemed to
Speaker 1: be avoiding them. We want to talk to him because
Speaker 1: of the fact of his relationship with and Hannah, but
Speaker 1: also weird started to at this time get tips and
Speaker 1: leaves that there might have been some issues with some
Speaker 1: custody reference, and that task became difficult due to the
Speaker 1: fact that when we stopped by the house, Billy wasn't
Speaker 1: always there. In September of twenty sixteen, BCI agents finally
Speaker 1: tracked down Billy Wagner outside a grocery store and was
Speaker 1: this interview with Billy Wagner recording? Yes, it was audio recorded.
Speaker 1: If this timing runner, I would like to play that
Speaker 1: recording for the journey. I just want to talk with
Speaker 1: you about the Rodent murders, okay, and so, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been out talking with people, you know, all kinds
Speaker 1: of you know, tips get called in our office and
Speaker 1: all that, and so your name has come up and
Speaker 1: you know, and tips and things like that. So we
Speaker 1: just want to find whatever you want to. Just be
Speaker 1: honest with us. I'll tell you whatever I can do
Speaker 1: to help get out. As the audio recordings began, Jenkins,
Speaker 1: wearing a blue blazer and white shirt, lowered his head
Speaker 1: and sat listening to the conversation. Billy Wagner was first
Speaker 1: asked about his relationship with Chris Roden Senior. Wagner insisted
Speaker 1: he and victim Chris Rodin were very close. You know,
Speaker 1: Chris was my best friend, all right, man him, you know,
Speaker 1: we run around all the time. But I want to
Speaker 1: talk about Chris. Don't call up. He didn't tell anybody enough.
Speaker 1: He can't be too business to yourself. And I want
Speaker 1: to tell you straight up, I don't care what he done.
Speaker 1: He was my friend. He'd done everything for me, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, and Chris rode up, I mean scroubs for everything.
Speaker 1: He had worked his ass off and he worked every day.
Speaker 1: You know his shit. They're making him out like some
Speaker 1: damn big gangsters, a bunch of shit, Okay, okay, And
Speaker 1: now I wanted to talk with the other thing. You know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't no thingkay. But Chris never hurt nobody. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you whatever I can do to help you out.
Speaker 1: And we're not concerned about anything other than the murders.
Speaker 1: So you know, we've talked with different people. Different people
Speaker 1: have different involvement. You know. You know you've you've read
Speaker 1: the paper. Uh, you know you've seen the news. I'm
Speaker 1: not worried about all that. I'll tell you whatever you
Speaker 1: need to know, Okay, I'm just saying, you know, there
Speaker 1: was gross down and I want to tasting the right
Speaker 1: off the bat. You didn't know Chris, all right, most
Speaker 1: of the shit they're talking about it with a bunch
Speaker 1: of bullshit life. Okay, I mean Chris, he'd give you
Speaker 1: the shirt off his back. Well we've heard that, you
Speaker 1: know he he you know, he was absolutely you know,
Speaker 1: we're what nobody else like him? Oh Chris, I said,
Speaker 1: he is my best grand wel also said he and
Speaker 1: Chris Rodin had spoken the night he was killed. Last
Speaker 1: time my talk came and he seemed all right, was
Speaker 1: the night before all happened, and I said, hey, man,
Speaker 1: i'll talk. He's more. And then next morning, you know,
Speaker 1: all hell broke Los BCI agents s Wagner, who he
Speaker 1: thought committed the murderers. Billy Wagner floated the possibility that
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior might have vowed money to drug dealers.
Speaker 1: Ain't a bunch of hell billys do something like that?
Speaker 1: And well, you know, sorry, never convinced me. You know,
Speaker 1: hat's like some fieldeen six. Okay, but your bottom feeding
Speaker 1: sounds pitches right. Well, yeah, you know your bottom feeders,
Speaker 1: I mean, every damn one of them. I mean they're
Speaker 1: on that freaking ship. And I mean it killed r
Speaker 1: Dan Braham all for five dollars. And you know, I
Speaker 1: told crab, you know, got to fuck you know, shouldn't
Speaker 1: suck around fact shit. But you know, because it just
Speaker 1: and it ain't too much. You know, who care? You
Speaker 1: know what happened to the dumb affors doing it? But
Speaker 1: you know it's a ship that they did. Investigators again
Speaker 1: pressed Billy Wagner about his relationship with victim Chris Roden Senior,
Speaker 1: specifically if they had gotten into a fight a few
Speaker 1: weeks prior to the murders. We had heard someone had
Speaker 1: called and said, and then listen, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care what you are. You
Speaker 1: play it on me, O day because you or Chris
Speaker 1: actually got into a fight about a week or two
Speaker 1: prior to the murders and said that you'd pulled a
Speaker 1: gun on him. Yeah, okay, absolutely not. Didn't happen? Good nappen? Day? Well, no,
Speaker 1: let's just saying that you've got into an argument, wasn't
Speaker 1: now and then you sort of then you pulled a
Speaker 1: gun on him, and you said I don't care about Chris.
Speaker 1: Throughout the nearly two hour conversation Wagner tried repeatedly to
Speaker 1: shift the investigator's attention away from himself and his family.
Speaker 1: You're looking in the wrong damn direction. You new to
Speaker 1: be going to have what. At one point, Billy Wagner
Speaker 1: even mentioned he'd heard Hannah Rodin was seeing a sheriff
Speaker 1: and said someone had seen a sheriff's car parked on
Speaker 1: Union Hill Road. Somebody said that she was singing a
Speaker 1: deput sheriff up here in Waverley. I don't know who
Speaker 1: he is, and he every time I heard that there
Speaker 1: was a sheriff sitting at the end of Union Hill
Speaker 1: all night. So I don't know if that's I don't know,
Speaker 1: but that's just what I heard. Later, when agents mentioned
Speaker 1: the marijuana growing on Chris Roden's property, Billy Wagner denied
Speaker 1: any involvement in the drug business. Now, other people have
Speaker 1: told us that they thought that you and Chris were
Speaker 1: business partners. No, now, if Chris you know now, I'm
Speaker 1: gont bullshit. I Chris. I don't care what Chris asked
Speaker 1: me to do. Yeah, if he asked me do something,
Speaker 1: I'd do it for him, because he'd do anything for me,
Speaker 1: you know. He you just you just don't you way
Speaker 1: you can understand that, I understand if you Christons, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, we're daylight and dark, all right, but
Speaker 1: well you know pretty much you know, if he want
Speaker 1: to go do something, we go. If I want to
Speaker 1: go do something, he can go with me. You know
Speaker 1: it didn't matter. So but so you never hold any
Speaker 1: weed for no. No, I hold a lot of cars
Speaker 1: for him, hauled a lot of cars, like would you
Speaker 1: hold him round? Go down drear down there in code
Speaker 1: arts and get him for him and bring him up.
Speaker 1: Investigators return to rumors of illegal drugs and a possible
Speaker 1: drug deal that Chris Roden Senior was potentially involved with,
Speaker 1: and who Billy Wagner alleged might have had a reason
Speaker 1: to kill Chris Roden Senior. It's important to note that
Speaker 1: George Wagner's allegations against Skid Montgomery are not substantiated. Here's
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa picking up her questioning of ah
Speaker 1: and Jenkins. There's talk in during that conversation between you
Speaker 1: and mister Wagner, and he keeps referring to a person
Speaker 1: named m Yes, that's correct, and can you tell us
Speaker 1: who Latham is sure so during that during that interview,
Speaker 1: mister Wagner, as you've heard, but it would keep referring
Speaker 1: to an individual name Lathe Latham and basically who he
Speaker 1: was referring to as an individual named Skid Montgomery. Skid
Speaker 1: Montgomery lives in around the Latham area, owns a lot
Speaker 1: of property in the in the Pike County area, and
Speaker 1: we'd learned through the investigation that there was always rumor
Speaker 1: that Skid Montgomery was a big, large scale marijuana dealer
Speaker 1: and that he would put hits out on people and
Speaker 1: especial agent Jenkins. Obviously, Billy talked to you about an
Speaker 1: alleged business deal where Chris was expected to get a
Speaker 1: large a large chunk of marijuana and indicated that it
Speaker 1: would represent a lot of money and that would put
Speaker 1: people out of business. Correct, that's correct, Okay, and specifically
Speaker 1: indicated that he felt that that would be upsetting to
Speaker 1: Latham slash Skid mcgoming. That's correct. Yes, here's Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: It's very compelling to hear the voice of accused father
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. Hearing this interview that has been spoken about
Speaker 1: so often was fascinating. Some people say that he was
Speaker 1: rambling in this interview and trying to lead investigators in
Speaker 1: a different direction and throw some tidbits at them to
Speaker 1: get them off his track. But frankly, in listening to it,
Speaker 1: I thought he felt pretty common cooperative. He was just
Speaker 1: being stopped outside of a grocery store and cut two.
Speaker 1: He's in a two hour interview. Well, Steff, based on
Speaker 1: what we've heard about the Wager's movements after the murders,
Speaker 1: I think it stands to reason that they probably weren't
Speaker 1: anticipating talking to law enforcement at some point and probably
Speaker 1: had a bit of a script or a plan for
Speaker 1: when that did happen. I mean, because Billy very quickly
Speaker 1: was throwing out unsubstantiated rumors about nineteen year old victim
Speaker 1: Hannah may Or, pointing away from himself towards the grow operation,
Speaker 1: and even bringing up Skid Montgomery like he already had
Speaker 1: a litany of things that he was going to kind
Speaker 1: of try to throw at the police to get the
Speaker 1: scent off of him and his family. Interesting that you
Speaker 1: should say that, because yes, you're right. On the one hand,
Speaker 1: he's saying that Chris Senior was his very best friend
Speaker 1: and he would do anything for him, and that Chris
Speaker 1: would do anything for him. And to your point, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, he's essentially throwing him under the bus
Speaker 1: by pointing to the grow operation and denying that there
Speaker 1: was ever a big fight between them regarding custody and
Speaker 1: kind of bringing him again back to Skid Montgomery. Even
Speaker 1: just hearing the name Latham aka Skid of Montgomery, and
Speaker 1: it legitimately makes the hairs in the back of my
Speaker 1: next stand up because we've been given this name so
Speaker 1: many times, both from listeners and people in and around
Speaker 1: the area. And again, Skid Montgomery is a very prominent
Speaker 1: landowner in Pike County and now here's Billy basically accusing him.
Speaker 1: Is this just Billy getting him off his tracks, or
Speaker 1: is it possible that there is some truth to that.
Speaker 1: I have to assume that we're going to hear from
Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery at some point, and that he'll be a witness.
Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting that Billy says there
Speaker 1: was a sheriff at the bottom of the road that
Speaker 1: whole night that he had heard rumors of. That is
Speaker 1: he referring to Sheriff Reader And if so, I also
Speaker 1: have to assume that Sheriff Reader at some point will
Speaker 1: testify at this trial because his name comes up all
Speaker 1: the time, and as we know, he's currently serving time
Speaker 1: for unrelated charges for taking drug money illegally and using
Speaker 1: it for gambling, again completely unrelated. Nobody has associated him
Speaker 1: with these murders, but again these names keep coming up.
Speaker 1: Well stuff. This is certainly an interesting preview of the
Speaker 1: trial to come. As we know Billy Wagner has pled
Speaker 1: not guilty and as a waiting trial, and so this
Speaker 1: is maybe just a little bit of a sneak peek
Speaker 1: at his upcoming legal proceedings. Also, even just him saying
Speaker 1: that me and Chris were best friends and that we
Speaker 1: were like daylight and dark. I thought that was such
Speaker 1: a curious statement, which one does he see himself as.
Speaker 1: Despite efforts to shift the focus away from himself and
Speaker 1: his family, investigators walked away from their conversation with Billy
Speaker 1: Wagner with more questions than answers. Here's legal analyst Mike Allen.
Speaker 1: He didn't help himself listening to it. I really don't
Speaker 1: know what he was trying to do. I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: he was trying to shift the focus away from him
Speaker 1: and his family. I don't I don't think he was
Speaker 1: very successful with it. That happens all the time. These people,
Speaker 1: some of them, they deceived themselves into thinking that, you know,
Speaker 1: they're the smartest criminal in the world, and you know
Speaker 1: they'll say, well if I if I say this to
Speaker 1: the police, or if I say something else to the police, there,
Speaker 1: that'll throw him off the trail doesn't happen. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: The investigative trail was beginning to point directly to the
Speaker 1: Wagner family, though not necessarily to defendant George Wagner. Here's
Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter James Pilcher in Cincinnati now with Local twelve.
Speaker 1: When are they going to point to George being part
Speaker 1: of this conspiracy? Because none of the physical evidence that
Speaker 1: they presented early on, I had any of the Wagoners too,
Speaker 1: any of these crime scenes. Outside the courtroom, questions were
Speaker 1: being asked about the prosecution's ability to link George Wagner
Speaker 1: to the murders. That to me is the major issue here, right.
Speaker 1: I've been going for days in this trial, lots of evidence,
Speaker 1: lots of witnesses, but honestly, we have yet to hear
Speaker 1: any connection of George the fourth to these crimes. Following
Speaker 1: Special Agent John jenkins testimony, the defense requested for the
Speaker 1: third time in the trial there should be a mistrial.
Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes of Special Agent Jenkins's interview
Speaker 1: with Billy Wagner should never have been played before the jury.
Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: George Wagner and that the interview did not establish any
Speaker 1: proof of a conspiracy to commit aggravated murder. Special Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Angiekuneppas said that wasn't why the state played the interview
Speaker 1: with Billy Wagner at his son George's trial. Instead, she
Speaker 1: wanted the jury to see how BCI investigators ended up
Speaker 1: focusing on the Wagner family. Of course, he's a rude
Speaker 1: emotions previously made on the record for miss trial and
Speaker 1: to exclude the tape or to strike the tape is
Speaker 1: defense council and the state ready to bring the jury up.
Speaker 1: Judge During ruled against the motion for a mistrial, and
Speaker 1: the prosecution called for the second time. BCI analyst Julia Evislage,
Speaker 1: the agent has long brown hair and is wearing a
Speaker 1: maroon red jacket. Evislage is sworn in and questioned by
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa. Good afternoon. How are you? Good afternoon?
Speaker 1: If you want to go ahead and state your name
Speaker 1: again just for the record, Julia Evislage. Okay, And you
Speaker 1: previously testified in this case. Correct, that's correct, okay. And
Speaker 1: we've already discussed with you your current role at the
Speaker 1: Bureaucram of Investigations and your work in this case, specifically
Speaker 1: in analyzing records and other things that came that were
Speaker 1: obtained percern to both subpoenas and search warts. Correct, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And can you tell us when you go through records
Speaker 1: and such, is that information that you then share with
Speaker 1: the investigative team, Yes, okay? And in your experience, has
Speaker 1: that then inform their investigation in people that they are
Speaker 1: willing in or willing out? Yes? Okay. And can you
Speaker 1: tell us, Miss Everslage in this case, did you guys
Speaker 1: obtain Facebook records of the victims? Yes, one of our
Speaker 1: cyber crimes agents obtained a search warrant for all of
Speaker 1: the Facebook accounts of the victims and we review those
Speaker 1: once the responses came in from Facebook. On the screen above,
Speaker 1: Evislage prosecutors pull up a spreadsheet of messages taken from
Speaker 1: Hannah Roden's Facebook account. Each entry is labeled with the
Speaker 1: time and date of the exchange. During that review of
Speaker 1: those Facebook records, did you find information in the Facebook
Speaker 1: account belonging to Hannah May Roden? Yes? And can you
Speaker 1: tell us why were they noteworthy to you? When we
Speaker 1: first started looking at Hannah's Facebook, we found some statements
Speaker 1: in there and some of her messages that seemed to
Speaker 1: be in direct conflict with things that we had heard
Speaker 1: and interviews, particularly with Jake Wagner's interview, and we noted
Speaker 1: just different different statements about abuse in the relationship, issues
Speaker 1: with the Wagner's being controlling, things like that, and then
Speaker 1: just her kind of sense of discomfort with the situation
Speaker 1: with the custody of Okay and fears that they were
Speaker 1: trying to take from her. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: Last episode, we heard, among others, Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's
Speaker 1: ex wife's testimony and her correspondence between Hanah May Rodin
Speaker 1: and herself before she was murdered. Well, yeah, what's interesting
Speaker 1: about this is the messages between Hannah May and Tabitha,
Speaker 1: Georgia's ex wife talk about the fears of losing custody
Speaker 1: and the Wagner family making the young women signed documents
Speaker 1: that they don't want to be signed, kind of basically
Speaker 1: being coerced into signing. Attempted guardianship fraud was uncovered in
Speaker 1: the Pine County murder trial. Take a closer look at
Speaker 1: your screen here. I want to show you something that's
Speaker 1: on that document. At the bottom of it, you can
Speaker 1: see a u RL to a website and there's a
Speaker 1: date on the paper. It shows someone ripped this document
Speaker 1: off a Texas government website in April of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: the same month someone murdered Hannah May and seven of
Speaker 1: her family members. Investigators say they've found that in the
Speaker 1: Wagner's belongings. While the Wagner's told investigators there are no
Speaker 1: issues over custody of Jake and Hannah's daughter, analyst Julia
Speaker 1: Evislage pointed to additional Facebook messages that showed Hannah was
Speaker 1: scared of the Wagner's attempts to in custody of her daughter.
Speaker 1: One Facebook message stood out. It's the often spoken about
Speaker 1: conversation from December of twenty fifteen. That was between Hannahme
Speaker 1: Roden and George Wagner, the fourth's ex mother in law.
Speaker 1: It's where Hannahme swears she will never sign papers to
Speaker 1: give up custody of her daughter. As for those Facebook
Speaker 1: messages to Hannah Wagner, one of those exchanges between Tabitha
Speaker 1: and Hannah Rodin actually took place on the very day
Speaker 1: that Hannah Roden was killed. Billy Wagner's interview and the
Speaker 1: Facebook messages showing the brewing custody battle between Hannah and
Speaker 1: Jake convinced investigators in late twenty sixteen they needed to
Speaker 1: shift their focus to the Wagner family. You need to
Speaker 1: investigate that. That's important. That's a lead, that's something that
Speaker 1: needs to be ran down, specially Agent Ryan Scheiterer of
Speaker 1: the BCI led the two year investigation into the brutal killings.
Speaker 1: Scheiderer testified that he visited the Wagner's home on Peterson
Speaker 1: Road in May of twenty seventeen, just before the Wagners
Speaker 1: are set to move to Alaska. Is Angie Kneppa speaking
Speaker 1: with Agent Scheiderer, who is on the stand. When you arrived,
Speaker 1: you said, Jake and Angela and George were outside packing
Speaker 1: along as in a trailer. Did all three of those
Speaker 1: individuals remain outside, No, they did not. George excused himself
Speaker 1: and went inside, and Jake and Angela remained outside. Yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And during that time, did you observe anything in the
Speaker 1: driveway that was of interest to you? Yes? Why speaking
Speaker 1: with Angela and Jake, they were willing to speak with us,
Speaker 1: They didn't ask us to leave. I just casually observed
Speaker 1: there was numerous fired cartridge caseines lying about the driveway.
Speaker 1: All over the place. There was hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 1: cartridges laying around cases. And can you tell us a
Speaker 1: special agent scheider did you? Were you able to pick
Speaker 1: those items up and examine them close? No? Okay? And
Speaker 1: were you able to tell from your vantage point not
Speaker 1: bending over and picking them up or examined them closely?
Speaker 1: Did any of them appear to be of interest? Yes?
Speaker 1: So the crime scenes, we were aware that there was
Speaker 1: a forty caliber used. A forty caliber cartridge casing was
Speaker 1: found at one of the crime scenes. You guys heard
Speaker 1: about that. We also knew that there was potentially a
Speaker 1: thirty caliber rifle that was used and twenty two long rifle.
Speaker 1: What I observed that day, I saw cartridge casings that
Speaker 1: appeared to be from a rifle. They weren't like a
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber rifles, so they weren't twenty two room fires,
Speaker 1: but they definitely weren't like two two threes or five
Speaker 1: five sixes. I just couldn't tell what caliber they were.
Speaker 1: And then I also saw cartridge cases that were or
Speaker 1: casings that were consistent with pistol calibers. Specifically to me,
Speaker 1: it looked like they were nine millimeters or forty caliber.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell from my vantage point. Obviously I'm standing
Speaker 1: up and I did not examine them. And can you
Speaker 1: tell us? Was there also a conversation with Jake regarding
Speaker 1: various punishments for this kind of a crime. Yes. On
Speaker 1: one of the things that I like to do. When
Speaker 1: I'm talking to somebody that I suspect is involved in
Speaker 1: a crime i'm investigating, there's oftentimes I will ask that person,
Speaker 1: what do you think the appropriate punishment is for somebody
Speaker 1: that's accused of this crime? To elicit their response, so
Speaker 1: I did ask him that, okay, and what was his response?
Speaker 1: It depended on whether or not they were a triggered person.
Speaker 1: Following the visit. Investigators got a warrant to search the
Speaker 1: Wagner property and their cell phones. Among the many communications
Speaker 1: they found were text messages between George Wagner and his father, Billy.
Speaker 1: One message was sent while BCI investigators were at the
Speaker 1: Wagner's home. Can you tell us if you saw anything
Speaker 1: of interest on Billy's phone? There was interesting text messages
Speaker 1: from George. Message number four is an inbox, which means
Speaker 1: it's a message to Billy and it is from George,
Speaker 1: his son, and it says, don't come down till I
Speaker 1: text you got company. Here's Stephanie. None of this ties
Speaker 1: George Wagner to the crimes. I also thought it was
Speaker 1: interesting that when police arrived to their home and George
Speaker 1: went inside, and they later took Billy's phone and he
Speaker 1: had texted to George to stay inside. Was he protecting
Speaker 1: him from police? Was Jake protecting his brother? When he
Speaker 1: said what should happen to the people who committed this crime?
Speaker 1: And he said depends on who the trigger puller was?
Speaker 1: But again a strange answer. Retrospectively, since he's now taken
Speaker 1: a polea agreement saying that he was in fact a
Speaker 1: trigger puller is that a way of protecting George, because
Speaker 1: so far compelling as all of this is, none of
Speaker 1: it really does tie George to the crime. But Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner's phone included far more incriminating evidence. Once again, the
Speaker 1: messages were displayed on a large TV screen above the
Speaker 1: witness box. Did you also look at Jake's phone and
Speaker 1: did you find anything of interest on that phone? Yes?
Speaker 1: And can you tell us what you thought. One of
Speaker 1: the most interesting things that we found on Jake's phone
Speaker 1: at that time was under the note section, and it
Speaker 1: was a list of guns owned by the Wagners were
Speaker 1: purported to be. So basically, there's a list with each
Speaker 1: Wagner's name and then a list of guns underneath each
Speaker 1: of those names. Jurors and Wagner's murder trial learned his
Speaker 1: brother Jake kept a list of guns that investigators think
Speaker 1: both men, along with their parents Billy and Angela owned
Speaker 1: on that list and SKA seven six two by thirty
Speaker 1: nine and a Colt nineteen eleven twenty two pistol. The
Speaker 1: search of the Wagner property also produced valuable evidence linking
Speaker 1: the Wagner's weapons to the murders. This included hundreds of
Speaker 1: shell casings from the Wagner family farm. BCI firearms expert
Speaker 1: Matthew White delivered what could turn out to be damning
Speaker 1: testimony in the State of Ohio's case against George Wagner. Today,
Speaker 1: let's stop here for another break. During Special Prosecutor Andy
Speaker 1: Wilson's questioning of BCI agent Matthew White, prosecutors showed hundreds
Speaker 1: of photos of shell casings on the overhead screen. Jurors
Speaker 1: were seen taking notes and at times sketching doodle drawings
Speaker 1: during the long and often technical testimony. Were you able
Speaker 1: based on your knowledge, you're training, your experience, and the
Speaker 1: work that you had done in this case examining book
Speaker 1: shell casings and the projectiles? Were you able to wring
Speaker 1: you an opinion as to whether or not any guns
Speaker 1: listed on that list could have been responsible for the
Speaker 1: evidence recovered frees from the scenes. I did, and could
Speaker 1: you tell the jury what that opinion was? I felt
Speaker 1: the most likely candidates for firearms that could have been
Speaker 1: used were the SKS seven six two by thirty nine
Speaker 1: and the Coult nineteen eleven twenty two pistol. But based
Speaker 1: on your review of this, you determine that the skas
Speaker 1: seven six two by thirty nine and the Colt nineteen
Speaker 1: eleven twenty two could be contributors to the guns that
Speaker 1: were used. It could be the guns that were used
Speaker 1: in this case. Yes, are that is script Matthewitt was
Speaker 1: also asked if any of the shell casings found on
Speaker 1: the Wagner's property matched any of the cartridge casings elected
Speaker 1: at the crime scenes. And when you did those comparisons,
Speaker 1: were you able to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty
Speaker 1: to reach a conclusion as to whether or not those
Speaker 1: exhibits that were recovered from Peterson Road were fired from
Speaker 1: the same firearm that fired the shellcasings recovered from scene
Speaker 1: two Scene three. I was, and can you tell the
Speaker 1: jury what that opinion was. I sall my microsoftic comparison
Speaker 1: of the two fired twenty two long rifle cartridge cases
Speaker 1: compared to the other fired twenty too long rifle cartridge cases,
Speaker 1: I was able to conclude that all of the fired
Speaker 1: twenty two long rifle cartridge cases had been fired in
Speaker 1: the same firearm. The defense, however, tried to blunt the
Speaker 1: testimony linking the Wagner's family's weapons to the murder scenes.
Speaker 1: The cross examination lasted less than ten seconds A good
Speaker 1: after nine, sir, you don't know who hired that weapon.
Speaker 1: I cannot say that, Thank you, Jeff. More on that
Speaker 1: next time. For more information on the case and relevant photos,
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked
Speaker 1: and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell,
Speaker 1: Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and
Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. The
Speaker 1: Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios.
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