1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: And I know a a bunch of you know, Billy sees 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: something like that, never compasioning satisfaction in sealteen to six, 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: When are they going to point to George being part 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: of this conspiracy? Hannah replies, I won't sign papers. Ever, 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: it won't happen. They will have to kill me first. 6 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: This is the piked and massacre Return to Pike County 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: season four, episode twelve, Closing in on the Wagners. I'm 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Kati's Studios with Stephanie 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: Leidecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle of George Wagner 10 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: the Fourth trial. It's important to note that George Wagner 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: to all charges. So far, there's been hours of testimony 14 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: by investigators relatives that have painted a very real portrait 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: of what the crime scenes look like. But while prosecutors 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: have laid out the grisly details of the murderers, they 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: have yet to connect George Wagner the Fourth to the killings. 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: Stake cidifications to state ready to call another witnesses special 19 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: Prosecutor an Jacineppa call special Agent John Jenkins of the 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations more commonly known as the BCI. 21 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: Jenkins sports a trimmed goatee and looks every bit the 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: veteran investigator he is. In twenty sixteen, just four months 23 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: after the brutal murders, Jenkins interviewed the Wagner family's father, Billy. 24 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: You can find Billy Wagner's raw audio of his conversation 25 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: with special agents on our Apple Plus True Crime subscription page. 26 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: A link to that page is included in this episode's description. 27 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: Today's attention turned to a police interview with the defendant's father, Billy. 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: He was best friends with one of the victims, Chris Rodin. 29 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean his interview, he provides some insights that could 30 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: not only help the prosecution, but could also be useful 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: for the defense. BCI agents had spent months trying to 32 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: speak to Billy Wagner. Jenkins testified that Wagner seemed to 33 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: be avoiding them. We want to talk to him because 34 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: of the fact of his relationship with and Hannah, but 35 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: also weird started to at this time get tips and 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: leads that there might have been some issues with some 37 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: custody references, and that task became difficult due to the 38 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: fact that when we stopped by the house, Billy wasn't 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: always there. In September of twenty sixteen, BCI agents finally 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: tracked down Billy Wagner outside a grocery store and was 41 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: this interview with Billy Wagner recorded. Yes, it was audio recorded. 42 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: It's this time you run. I would like to play 43 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: that recording for the jury. I just want to talk 44 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: with you about the road and murders, okay, And so 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, we've been out talking with people, you know, 46 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: all kinds of you know, tips get called in our 47 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: office and all that, and so your name has come 48 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: up and you know, and tips and things like that. 49 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: So we just want to tie I find whatever you 50 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: want to. Just be honest with us. I'll tell you 51 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: whatever I can do to help get out. As the 52 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: audio recordings began, Jenkins, wearing a blue blazer and white shirt, 53 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: lowered his head and sat listening to the conversation. Billy 54 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: Wagner was first asked about his relationship with Chris Rodin. Sr. 55 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: Wagner insisted he and victim Chris Rodin were very close. 56 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: You know, Chris was my best friend, all right, manaham, 57 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: you know we run around all the time. But I 58 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: want to talk about Chris. Chris, don't tell her. He 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: didn't tell nobody. Nothing can kenviy the business to yourself. 60 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 1: And I want to tell you straight up, I don't 61 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: care what he done. He was my friend. He done 62 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: everything for me, you know. And Chris rodup I mean 63 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: scribes for everything. He had worked his ass off and 64 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: he worked every day, you know, his ship. They're making 65 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: him out like some damn big gangsters, a bunch of shit, okay, okay, 66 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: and how I want to talk with me and other thing. 67 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: You know, he wasn't a thing, okay, But Chris never 68 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: hurt nobody. I'll tell you whatever I can do to 69 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: help get out. And we're not concerned about anything other 70 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: than the murders. So you know, we've talked with different people. 71 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: Different people have different involvement. You know. You know you've 72 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: you've read the paper, you know you've seen the news. 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm not worried about all that. I'll tell you whatever 74 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: you need to know, Okay. I'm just saying, you know, 75 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: there was gross dare I'm I'll tell you something right 76 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: off the bat. Okay, you didn't know Chris all right, 77 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: most of the the ship they're talking about it was a 78 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: bunch of bullshit life, Okay, I mean Chris, he'd give 79 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: you the shirt off his back. Well, we've heard that. 80 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: You know, he's he you know, he was absolutely you know, 81 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: wasn't nobody else like him? Oh, Chris, Like I said, 82 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: he's my best friend. Also said he and Chris Rodin 83 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: had spoken the night he was killed. Last time I 84 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: talked came and he seemed all right, was the night 85 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: before all happened, and I said, hey man, I'll talk 86 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: you more. And then next morning, you know, all hell 87 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 1: broke loose DCI agents s Wagner, who he thought committed 88 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: the murderers. Billy Wagner floated the possibility that Chris Rudin 89 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: Senior might have vowed money to drug dealers. I ain't 90 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of hell Billy's do something like that. And well, 91 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, sorry, I never convinced me. You know, has 92 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: like some Seal Team six. Okay, but you're bottom feeding 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 1: suns and pitches right, Well, yeah, you know your bottom feeders. 94 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean every dawn one of them. I mean they're 95 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: on that freaking ship and I mean at kilber Dan 96 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Graham off for five hours and you know, I told 97 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: Kre you know, got the fucking you know, shoot fuck 98 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: around fact ship and you know, because it just and 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it ain't so much, you know, who cares? You know 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 1: what happens to the dumbass is doing it. But you 101 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 1: know it's a ship that they did. Investigators again pressed 102 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner about his relationship with victim Chris Roden Sr. 103 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: Specifically if they had gotten into a fight a few 104 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: weeks prior to the murders. We'd heard someone had called 105 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: and said and then listen, I'm not trying to I 106 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: don't understand. I don't care. What you heard on ODAVE 107 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: is that you and Chris actually got into a fight 108 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: about a week or two prior to the murders. No, 109 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: and said that you'd pulled a gun on him. No, okay, 110 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: absolutely not. Didn't happen, good nappy, Well, no, it's just 111 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: saying that you got into an argument with that and 112 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: then you sort then you pulled a gun on him 113 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: now and you said you've bet now. I don't care 114 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: how about Craig. Throughout the nearly two hour conversation, Wagner 115 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: tried repeatedly to shift the investigator's attention away from himself 116 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: and his family. You're looking in the wrong damn direction 117 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: to be going, he ever, why. At one point, Billy 118 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: Wagner even mentioned he'd heard Hannah Rodin was seeing a 119 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: sheriff and said someone had seen a sheriff's car parked 120 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: on Union Hill Road. Somebody said that she was seeing 121 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: a deputy sheriff up here in Waverley. I don't know 122 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: who he is, and you everything. I heard that there 123 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: was a sheriff sitting at the end of Union Hill 124 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: all night, So I don't know if that's I don't know, 125 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: but that's just what I heard. Later, when agents mentioned 126 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: the marijuana growing on Chris Rodin's property, Billy Wagner denied 127 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: any involvement in the drug business. Now, other people have 128 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: told us that they thought that you and Chris were 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: business partners. No, now, if Chris, you know, I don't know, 130 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: I'm bullshit, Chris. I don't care what Chris asked me 131 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: to do. You know, if he asked me to do something, 132 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: I'd do it for him, because he do anything for me. 133 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: But you know, you just you just don't. There's no 134 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: way you can understand that. I understand me, Christens. You know, 135 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: like I said, with daylight dark all right, but we 136 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: you know pretty much. You know, if he wanted to 137 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: go do something, we go. If I want to go 138 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: do something, he go with may you know, and didn't 139 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: minterr so. But so you never hold any weed for no. No, 140 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: I hold a lot of cars for him. I hold 141 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: a lot of cars. Would you hold him? La Roug 142 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: go down dreer down their code parks and get them 143 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: for him and bring him up. Investigator's return to rumors 144 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: of illegal drugs and a possible drug deal that Chris 145 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: Roden was potentially involved with, and who Billy Wagner alleged 146 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: might have had a reason to kill Chris Roden. It's 147 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: important to note that George Wagner's allegations against Skid Montgomery 148 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: are not substantiated. Here's Special Prosecutor Angiekneppa picking up her 149 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,359 Speaker 1: questioning of Agrian Jenkins. There's talk in during that conversation 150 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: between you and mister Wagner, and he keeps referring to 151 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: a person named Yes, that's correct, and can you tell 152 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: us who Latham is? Sure? So during that during that interview, 153 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: mister Wagner, as you've heard it, would keep referring to 154 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: an individual named Lath Latham and basically who he was 155 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: referring to as an individual named Skid Montgomery. Skid Montgomery 156 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: lives in around the Latham area, owns a lot of 157 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: property in the in the Pike County area, and we'd 158 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: learned through the investigation that there was always rumor that 159 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery was a big, large scale marijuana dealer and 160 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: that he would put hits out on people and especially 161 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: Agen Jenkins. Obviously, Billy talk to you about an alleged 162 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: business deal where Chris was expected to get a large 163 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: a large chunk of marijuana and indicated that it would 164 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: represent a lot of money and they would put people 165 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: out of business. Correct, that's correct, Okay, and specifically indicated 166 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: that he felt that that would be upsetting to Latham 167 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: slash Skid mcgomery. That's correct. Yes, Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 168 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: It's very compelling to hear the voice of accused father 169 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner. Hearing this interview that has been spoken about 170 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: so often was fascinating. Some people say that he was 171 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: rambling in this interview, and trying to lead investigators in 172 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: a different direction and throw some tidbits at them to 173 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: get them off his track. But frankly, in listening to it, 174 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: I thought he felt pretty calm and cooperative. He was 175 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: just being stopped outside of a grocery store and cut 176 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: to he's in a two hour interview. Well, Steph, Based 177 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: on what we've heard about the Wagner's movements after the murders, 178 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: I think it stands to reason that they probably were 179 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: anticipating talking to law enforcement at some point and probably 180 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: had a bit of a script or a plan for 181 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: when that did happen. I mean, because Billy very quickly 182 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: was throwing out unsubstantiated rumors about nineteen year old victim 183 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: Hannah may Or pointing away from himself towards the grow operation, 184 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: and even bringing up Skid Montgomery like he already had 185 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: a litany of things that he was going to kind 186 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: of try to throw at the police to get the 187 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: scent off of him and his family. Interesting that you 188 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: should say that, because yes, you're right. On the one hand, 189 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: he's saying that Chris Senior was his very best friend 190 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: and he would do anything for him, and that Chris 191 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: would do anything for him, And to your point, on 192 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: the other hand, he's essentially throwing him under the bus 193 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: by pointing to the grow operation and denying that there 194 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: was ever a big fight between them regarding custody and 195 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: kind of bringing him again back to Skid Montgomery. Even 196 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: just hearing the name Latham aka Skid Montgomery, and it 197 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: legitimately makes the hairs in the back of my next 198 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: stand because we've been given this name so many times, 199 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: both from listeners and people in and around the area. 200 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: And again, Skid Montgomery is a very prominent landowner in 201 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: Pike County and now here's Billy basically accusing him. Is 202 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: this just Billy getting him off his tracks? Or is 203 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: it possible that there is some truth to that. I 204 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: have to assume that we're going to hear from Skid 205 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: Montgomery at some point, and that he'll be a witness. 206 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting that Billy says there 207 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: was a sheriff at the bottom of the road that 208 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: whole night that he had heard rumors of. That is 209 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: he referring to Sheriff Reader, And if so, I also 210 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: have to assume that Sheriff Reader at some point will 211 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: testify at this trial. Because his name comes up all 212 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: the time, and as we know, he's currently serving time 213 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: for unrelated charges for taking drug money illegally and using 214 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: it for gambling, again completely unrelated. Nobody has associated him 215 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: with these murders, but again these names keep coming up. Well, Steph, 216 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: this is certainly an interesting preview of the trial to come. 217 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: As we know Billy Wagner has pled not guilty and 218 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: as a waiting trial, and so this is maybe just 219 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: a little bit of a sneak peek at his upcoming 220 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: legal proceedings. Also, even just him saying that me and 221 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: Chris were best friends and that we were like daylight 222 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: and dark. I thought that was such a curious statement, 223 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: which one does he see himself as. Despite efforts to 224 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: shift the focus away from himself and his family, investigators 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: walked away from their conversation with Billy Wagner with more 226 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: questions than answers. Here's legal analyst Mike allon he didn't 227 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: help himself listening to it. I really don't know what 228 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: he was trying to do. I mean, obviously he was 229 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: trying to shift the focus away from him and his family. 230 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think he was very successful with it. 231 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: That happens all the time. These people, some of them, 232 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: they deceived themselves into thinking that, you know, they're the 233 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: smartest criminal in the world, and you know they'll say, 234 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: well if I if I say this to the police, 235 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: or if I say something else to the police, there, 236 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: that'll throw them off the trail, doesn't happen. We're going 237 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 238 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: The investigative trail was beginning to point directly to the 239 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: Wagner family, though not necessarily to defendant George Wagner. Here's 240 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter James Pilcher in Cincinnati now with Local twelve. 241 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: When are they going to point to George being part 242 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: of this conspiracy? Because none of the physical evidence that 243 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: they presented early on had any of the Wagners too, 244 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: any of these crime sites. Outside the courtroom, questions were 245 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: being asked about the prosecution's ability to link George Wagner 246 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: to the murders. That to me is the major issue here, right. 247 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: I've been going for days in this trial, lots of evidence, 248 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: lots of witnesses, but honestly, we have yet to hear 249 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: any connection of George the fourth to these crimes. Following 250 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: Special Agent John jenkins testimony, the defense requested for the 251 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: third time in the trial there should be a mistrial. 252 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes of Special Agent Jenkins's interview 253 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: with Billy Wagner should never have been played before the jury. 254 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes had nothing to do with 255 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: George Wagner and that the interview did not establish any 256 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: proof of a conspiracy to commit aggravated murder. Special Prosecutor 257 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: Angie Kuneppas said that wasn't why the state played the 258 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: interview with Billy Wagner at his son George's trial. Instead, 259 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: she wanted the jury to see how BCI investigators ended 260 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: up focusing on the Wagner family. Court rude emotions previously 261 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: made on the record for miss trial and to exclude 262 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: the tape or to strike the tape is defense council 263 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: and the state ready to bring the jury up. Judge 264 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: During ruled against the motion for a mistrial and the 265 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: prosecution called for the second time. BCI analyst Julia Eveslidge, 266 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: the agent, has long brown hair and is wearing a 267 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: maroon red jacket. Evslage is sworn in and questioned by 268 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,479 Speaker 1: Special prosecutor Angie Caneppa, good afternoon. How are you good afternoon? 269 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: If you want to go ahead and state your name 270 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: again just for the record, Julia Avslidge. Okay, and you 271 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: previously testified in this case. Correct, that's correct, okay. And 272 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: we've already discussed with you your current role at the 273 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: Bureau Criment Investigations and your work in this case, specifically 274 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: in analyzing records and other things that came that were 275 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: obtained for cervant to both subpoenas an searchwards correct, yes, okay. 276 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: And can you tell us when you go through records 277 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: and such, is that information that you then share with 278 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: the investigative team, Yes, okay. And in your experience, does 279 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: that then inform their investigation in people that they are 280 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: wulling in or ruling out? Yes, okay. And can you 281 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: tell us, miss Evslage in this case, did you guys 282 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: obtain Facebook records of the victims? Yes, one of our 283 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: cybercrimes agents obtained a search warrant for all of the 284 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: Facebook accounts of the victims and we review those once 285 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: the responses came in from Facebook. On the screen above 286 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: epislaghe prosecutors pull up a spreadsheet of messages taken from 287 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 1: Hannah Rodin's Facebook account. Each entry is labeled with the 288 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 1: time and date of the exchange. During that review of 289 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: those Facebook records, did you find information in the Facebook 290 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: account belonging to Hannah May Rowden? Yes, and can you 291 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: tell us why were they noteworthy to you? When we 292 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 1: first started looking at Hannah's Facebook, we found some statements 293 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: in there, in some of her messages that seemed to 294 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: be in direct conflict with things that we had heard 295 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: and interviews, particularly with Jake Wagner's interview, and we noted 296 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: just different different statements about abuse in the relationship, issues 297 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: with the Wagner's being controlling, things like that, and then 298 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: just her kind of sense of discomfort with the situation 299 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: with the custody of Okay and fears that they were 300 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: trying to take from her. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 301 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: Last episode, we heard, among others, Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's 302 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: ex wife's testimony and her correspondence between haw To May 303 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: Rodin and herself before she was murdered. Well, what's interesting 304 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: about this is the messages between Hannah May and Tabitha, 305 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: Georgia's ex wife talk about the fears of losing custody 306 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: in the Wagner family, making the young woman sign documents 307 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: that they don't want to be signed, kind of basically 308 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: being coerced into signing. Attempted guardianship fraud was uncovered in 309 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: the Pine County murder trial. Take a closer look at 310 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: your screen here. I want to show you something that's 311 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: on that document. At the bottom of it, you can 312 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: see a URL to a website and there's a date 313 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: on the paper. It shows someone ripped this document off 314 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a Texas government website in April of twenty sixteen, the 315 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: same month someone murdered Hannah May and seven of her 316 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: family members. Investigators say they've found that in the Wagner's belongings. 317 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: While the Wagners told investigators there are no issues over 318 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: custody of Jake and Hannah's daughter, analyst Julia Evslage pointed 319 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: to additional Facebook messages that showed Hannah was scared of 320 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: the Wagner's attempts to win custody of her daughter. One 321 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: Facebook message stood out. It's the often spoken about conversation 322 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: from December of twenty fifteen that was between Hannah Mae 323 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: Rodin and George Wagner, the fourth's ex mother in law. 324 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: It's where Hannah Ma swears she will never sign papers 325 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: to give up custody of her daughter. As for those 326 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: Facebook messages to Hannah Wagner, one of those exchanges between 327 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: Tabitha and Hannah Rodin actually took place on the very 328 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: day that Hannah Roden was killed. Billy Wagner's interview and 329 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: the Facebook messages showing the brewing custody battle between Hannah 330 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: and Jake convinced investigators in late twenty sixteen they needed 331 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: to shift their focus to the Wagner family. You need 332 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: to investigate that. That's important. That's a lead, that's something 333 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: that needs to be ran down. Special Agent Ryan Schiderer 334 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: of the BCI led the two year investigation into the 335 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: brutal killings. Schiderer testified that he visited the Wagner's home 336 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: on Peterson Road in May of twenty seventeen, just before 337 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: the Wagners are set to move to Alaska. Here's Angiekineppa 338 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: speaking with Agent Schiderer, who is on the stand. When 339 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 1: you arrived, you said Jake and Angela and George were 340 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: outside packing along As in the trailer, did all three 341 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: of those individuals remain outside. No, they did not. George 342 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: excused himself and went inside, and Jake and Angela remained outside. Yes, okay. 343 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: And during that time, did you observe anything in the 344 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: driveway that was of interest to you? Yes? Why speaking 345 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: with Angela and Jake, they were willing to speak with us, 346 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: They didn't ask us to leave. I just casually observed 347 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: there was numerous fired cartridge casenes lying about the driveway. 348 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: All over the place. There was hundreds of thousands of 349 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: cartridges laying around caseinges. And can you tell us, special 350 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: Agent Chider, did you were you able to pick those 351 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: items up and examine them close? No? Okay? And were 352 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: you able to tell from your vantage point not bending 353 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: over and picking them up or examining them closely? Did 354 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: any of them appear to be of interest? Yes? So 355 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: the crime scenes, we were aware that there was a 356 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: forty caliber used. A forty cartridge casing was found at 357 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: one of the crime scenes. You guys heard about that. 358 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: We also knew that there was potentially a thirty caliber 359 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: rifle that was used and twenty two long rifle. What 360 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I observed that day, I saw cartridge casings that appeared 361 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: to be from a rifle. They weren't like at twenty 362 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: two caliber rifle, so they weren't twenty two rim fires, 363 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 1: but they definitely weren't like two two threes or five 364 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: five six's. I just couldn't tell what caliber they were. 365 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: And then I also saw cartridge cases that or casings 366 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: that were consistent with pistol calibers. Specifically to me, it 367 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: looked like they were nine milimeters or forty caliber. I 368 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: couldn't tell from my vantage point. Obviously, I'm standing up 369 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 1: and I did not examine them. And can you tell us? 370 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: Was there also a conversation with Jake regarding various punishments 371 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: for this kind of a crime. Yes. One of the 372 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: things that I like to do when I'm talking to 373 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: somebody that I suspect is involved in a crime i'm investigating, 374 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: as oftentimes, I will ask that person, what do you 375 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: think the appropriate punishment is for somebody that's accused of 376 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: this crime? To elicit their response, so I did ask 377 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: him that, okay, and what was his response? It depended 378 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: on whether or not they were a trigger person. Following 379 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: the visit, investigators got a warrant to search the Wagner 380 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: property and their cell phones. Among the many communications they 381 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: found were text messages between George Wagner and his father Billy. 382 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: One message was sent while BCI investigators were at the 383 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: Wagner's home. Can you tell us if you saw anything 384 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: of interest on Billy's phone? There was interesting text messages 385 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: from George. Message or four is an nbox, which means 386 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: it's a message to Billy and it is from George, 387 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: his son, and it says, don't calm down till I 388 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: text you got company. Here's Stephanie. None of this ties 389 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: George Wagner to the crimes. I also thought it was 390 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: interesting that when police arrived to their home and George 391 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: went inside, and they later took Billy's phone and he 392 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: had texted to George to stay inside. Was he protecting 393 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: him from police? Was Jake protecting his brother when he 394 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: said what should happen to the people who committed this crime? 395 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: And he said depends on who the trigger puller was? 396 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: But again a strange answer retrospectively, since he's now taken 397 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: a play agreement saying that he was in fact a 398 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: trigger puller, Is that a way of protecting George? Because 399 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: so far compelling as all of this is none of 400 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: it really does tie George to the crime, but Jake 401 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: Wagner's phone included far more incriminating evidence. Once again, the 402 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: messages were displayed on a large TV screen above the 403 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: witness box. Did you also look at Jake's phone and 404 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: did you find anything of interest on that phone? Yes? 405 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: And can you tell us what you found. One of 406 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: the most interesting things that we found on Jake's phone 407 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: at that time was under the note section, and it 408 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: was a list of guns owned by the Wagners were 409 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: purported to be. So basically, there's a list with each 410 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: Wagner's name and then a list of guns underneath each 411 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: of those names. Jurors and Wagner's murder trial learned his 412 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: brother Jake kept a list of guns that investigators think 413 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: both men, along with their parents Billy and Angela owned 414 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: On that list an SKX seven six two thirty nine 415 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: and a cult nineteen eleven twenty two pistols. The search 416 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: of the Wagner property also produced valuable evidence linking the 417 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: Wagner's weapons to the murders. This included hundreds of shellcasings 418 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: from the Wagner family farm. BCI firearms expert Matthew White 419 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: delivered what could turn out to be damning testimony in 420 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: the State of Ohio's case against George Wagner. Today, let's 421 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: stop here for another break. During Special Prosecutor Andy Wilson's 422 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: questioning of BCI agent Matthew White, prosecutors showed hundreds of 423 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: photos of shellcasings on the overhead screen. Jurors were seen 424 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: taking notes and at times sketching doodle drawings during the 425 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: long and often technical testimony. Were you able, based on 426 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: your knowledge or training, your experience, and the work that 427 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: you had done in this case examining book the shellcasings 428 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 1: and the projectiles, were you able to wring your an 429 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: opinion as to whether or not any guns listed on 430 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: that list could have been responsible for that the evidence 431 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: recovered from the scenes. I did, okay, and could you 432 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: tell the jury what that opinion was. I felt the 433 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: most likely candidates for firearms that could have been used 434 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: for the SKS seven sixty two by thirty nine and 435 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: the COLT nineteen eleven twenty two pistol. Well, based on 436 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: your review of this, you determined that the SKS seven 437 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: sixty two by thirty nine and the COLT nineteen eleven 438 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: twenty two could be contributors to the guns that were used, 439 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: could be the guns that were used in this case? Yes, 440 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: that are that is correct. Matthew White was also asked 441 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: if any of the shell casings found on the Wagner's 442 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: property matched any of the cartridge casings elected at the 443 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: crime scenes. And when you did those comparisons, were you 444 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: able to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty to reach 445 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: a conclusion as to whether or not those exhibits that 446 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: were recovered from Peterson Road were fired from the same 447 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: firearm that fired the shell casings recovered from scene two 448 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: and see three. I was, and can you tell the 449 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: jury what that opinion was. I saw my microsoftic comparison 450 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: of the two fired twenty two long rifle cartridge cases 451 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: compared to the other fired twenty two long rifle cartridge cases. 452 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: I was able to conclude that all of the fired 453 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: twenty two long rifle cartridge cases had been fired in 454 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: the same firearm. The defense, however, tried to blunt the 455 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: testimony linking the Wagner's family's weapons to the murder scenes. 456 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: The cross examination lasted less than ten seconds after direction, 457 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: good after night, sir, to see it again, you too, sir. 458 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: You don't know fire weapon nice Sure I cannot say that. 459 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jack. More on that next time. For more 460 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 1: information on the case and relevant photos, follow us on 461 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: Instagram at Kat Underscore Studios. The Pikedon Masker is produced 462 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Connor Powell, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel 463 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by 464 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: Jeff toa music by Jared Aston. The Pikedon Masker is 465 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio and KAT Studios. For more 466 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 467 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please welcome 468 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: mar Fight County, Dogwood Festival. Queen Lord. I just thank 469 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: you for bringing us all together as a community. Okay, 470 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: hook on? Well Dad all over the house? Who could 471 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: have killed eight family members in one mile? I lost 472 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: my best friends and I will never be the same 473 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: because of that day. Four crime scenes, no DNA, no witnesses. 474 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: The killer left those children laying in their mother's blood. 475 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: The word that comes to mind is overkilled. Who was 476 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: the master mind, I'm telling you is a crimer. I'm 477 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: not pitty in prison. One thing our lard. The smaller 478 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: the town, the bigger the sacreds. Be sure to watch 479 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: our upcoming documentary The Pike County Murders, a family massacre, 480 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and also streaming on 481 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty fourth and November 482 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: twenty fifth. Please check your local listings and our hearts 483 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.