Speaker 1: Welcome to Rams Icon at the podcast that gives our
Speaker 1: fans the opportunity to hear from some of the most
Speaker 1: legendary players in franchise history. I'm DeMarco Farr, and I
Speaker 1: have the honor of being your tour guide on this
Speaker 1: journey into greatness. My next guest really needs no introduction,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna give him one anyway, because well he
Speaker 1: deserves it. The second overall pick in the nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: six draft, he played left guard for thirteen seasons in
Speaker 1: the National Football League of your Los Angeles Rams. Eleven
Speaker 1: of those he was named to the Pro Bowl, which
Speaker 1: is unbelievable, First Team All Pro four times. In nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine, I love that. Year two, he was inducted
Speaker 1: into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Please welcome in
Speaker 1: Tom Mack. Hello, how are you, sir? Thank you? I'm
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these your life in pads, and the
Speaker 1: first thing that jumps out is one hundred and eighty
Speaker 1: four games played, never missed a game game due to injury.
Speaker 1: I played a hundred. I missed some games. I know
Speaker 1: how tough it is, But one hundred and eighty four
Speaker 1: games without missing a game. How did you do that.
Speaker 1: That was probably, more than anything, a monumental tribute to stupidity.
Speaker 1: I played more than a few games hurt and in
Speaker 1: all honestly, one game I put myself in one play
Speaker 1: just because I said, oh, hell, I can black for
Speaker 1: an extra point. So I put myself in, and the
Speaker 1: pr guy came up to me right after the game
Speaker 1: and said, hey, next time you do that, you gotta
Speaker 1: tell us. No, kid, you put yourself in the game.
Speaker 1: You just ran in there. You know it was an
Speaker 1: extra point. And I mean I had personally turned ligaments
Speaker 1: at both knees. Oh oh, okay. So when I came
Speaker 1: in in nineteen ninety four, Jackie Slater I think was
Speaker 1: in year eighteen. So he's my link to what it
Speaker 1: was like in the past. And he was a different
Speaker 1: breed of football player than I was used to come
Speaker 1: and straight out of college. I mean, this was a
Speaker 1: full grown man. But it was more than that. It
Speaker 1: was how tough he was, how he worked, and it
Speaker 1: just gave me a glimpse into I guess how you
Speaker 1: guys used to play in the past, and how tough
Speaker 1: you guys were, and how much pride you took in
Speaker 1: showing up every day and being ready to play and
Speaker 1: not missing games. Yeah, that's probably a good way to
Speaker 1: sum up in particular, the two lines, both the offense
Speaker 1: and the defensive line. Guys didn't want to be out
Speaker 1: of the game as sort of as I did. Put
Speaker 1: yourself in if you could. It really was a mark of,
Speaker 1: like I said, either stupidity or toughness. That we'd keep
Speaker 1: playing and you'd keep playing hurt because if you couldn't
Speaker 1: play hurt, you figured sooner or later you'd get replaced.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of how I got my break. The
Speaker 1: fellow in front of me, a fellow named Don Chewey,
Speaker 1: got hurt in a game and he never got to
Speaker 1: come back and play for us. Hey, that's just the
Speaker 1: way it goes. And you're right, it is a very
Speaker 1: thin line between stupid and tough in life, not just football,
Speaker 1: some very fin line, right. So yeah, it's great. And
Speaker 1: I was I looked at some of your your football
Speaker 1: teams and what was it like to line up against
Speaker 1: Merlin Olsen, What was it like to line up against
Speaker 1: when you had Deacon Jones on the outside. What was
Speaker 1: that like in practice for you guys? Well, one of
Speaker 1: the things we did in practice and you don't see
Speaker 1: it anymore because they've changed the rules. We would do
Speaker 1: one on one pass blocking religiously two or three days
Speaker 1: a week, and both the defense was trying to use
Speaker 1: their best moves and the offensive lines were using us.
Speaker 1: So it was it was really a very very serious challenge.
Speaker 1: Guys go on each other. In fact, I actually got
Speaker 1: hurt in a practice, had a guy come across my
Speaker 1: face as I knacked his hand out. He was trying
Speaker 1: to slap me in the head and got me in
Speaker 1: the eye and cut my eyelid down about I don't
Speaker 1: know about two inches where I had to go to
Speaker 1: the hospital. So I drove myself over to the hospital
Speaker 1: and got myself stitched up. Come Sunday I played, So
Speaker 1: it works out that must have blood pretty good. That
Speaker 1: must have been cool looking. Wow, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: something you just had to do back then. But I
Speaker 1: look you guys, you were one hundred and twenty nine
Speaker 1: and forty eight and seven eight division titles. You played
Speaker 1: in four NFC Championship games. I mean, why were you
Speaker 1: guys that good? What made you that good? I mean,
Speaker 1: that is dominant, That is a run of dominance there. Well,
Speaker 1: there there were a couple of things that really helped
Speaker 1: that when you look back on it. One, there were
Speaker 1: four of the five offensive linemen starting in sixty six
Speaker 1: we played together nine years. That made a huge difference
Speaker 1: because you had a real camaraderie amongst yourselves, and the
Speaker 1: backs understood what we were capable of doing for him,
Speaker 1: so they could move in and out. Gabriel was the
Speaker 1: quarterback the first four years or four and a half years,
Speaker 1: and then Hadel came and then James Harris, both of
Speaker 1: whom were really outstanding and they had confidence, and that
Speaker 1: really helped immensely. And then we rotated and we basically
Speaker 1: ended up in the next three years a new group
Speaker 1: of guys. So all of a sudden, I was playing
Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, with people like Jackie and Dennis
Speaker 1: Harra and Rich Sol, and all of a sudden it
Speaker 1: was it was a new offensive line again, and those
Speaker 1: guys ended up playing together a pretty good piece of time.
Speaker 1: That helps immensely. The defensive line was pretty much the
Speaker 1: same thing in terms of Deacon and Merlin. Originally we
Speaker 1: had Lamar. Roger Brown came in after ros Cy retired
Speaker 1: and filled that slot, and then Dren Talbert and we
Speaker 1: really had some good guys that were comfortable playing with
Speaker 1: each other. Who was on that line with you? The
Speaker 1: guys that were you were together for nine years. Charlie
Speaker 1: Cowen was the left tackle. I was the left guard,
Speaker 1: Kenny Aman was the senator, Joe Shabelli was the right
Speaker 1: guard and the right tackle. We rotated a little bit.
Speaker 1: We had a fellow named originally Joe Carollo, and then
Speaker 1: Harry Shook came in, and then after that John Williams
Speaker 1: so and all three of those guys were good and
Speaker 1: continuous guys. Most of them played more than ten years
Speaker 1: in the league, so it really helped to have that consistency. Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean nine years together. Your families grew up together,
Speaker 1: same coach or different coach, different guys coming in there.
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you break into that group with
Speaker 1: the same group for nine years. We had Prohaska originally,
Speaker 1: and then then they rotated and we had a couple
Speaker 1: of guys for two years under pro throw, and then Prohaska,
Speaker 1: interestingly enough, came back and he ended up being the
Speaker 1: coach who was interesting guy, honestly, not my favorite. I mean,
Speaker 1: did he make you better? Did he help you get better?
Speaker 1: We went and round with each other and had a
Speaker 1: pretty good understanding. But he knew what he was doing.
Speaker 1: He just did understand. Different people were motivated in different ways,
Speaker 1: No doubt that makes sense. Coaches tend to think one
Speaker 1: way and coach one way. So we had our moments
Speaker 1: with each other. But you know, I worked out fine,
Speaker 1: and I ended up playing I guess nine years for him. Well, see,
Speaker 1: that's the thing. When I when I knew that I
Speaker 1: heard we're gonna do Tom Mack, and when I started
Speaker 1: to get into your story and to see how smart
Speaker 1: you are. You're not just the average football player. Most
Speaker 1: guys you know why they're playing ball, So I would
Speaker 1: I guess I can understand why I coach couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out what would make you tick, Like, why are you
Speaker 1: doing this if you really don't have to? If that
Speaker 1: makes any sense, I understand what you're saying. I was
Speaker 1: lucky enough. I was doing something I enjoyed and I
Speaker 1: was pretty good at it, so I figured that, well,
Speaker 1: I'll just keep working at this and I'll get better
Speaker 1: and better. It's like, oh, people go different directions and
Speaker 1: quite blend quite as well as you know, I got it.
Speaker 1: You know, some of the blood and guts coaches. They
Speaker 1: just don't get certain guys, but it doesn't mean they
Speaker 1: can't help you become a better player. Thirteen seasons with
Speaker 1: the Rams, and you know, I asked us of a
Speaker 1: lot of guys, even current guys, and I guess you
Speaker 1: try to teach if you've been there, what it means
Speaker 1: to be a RAM. So I'll ask you, thirteen seasons
Speaker 1: and horns, what does being a RAM mean to you?
Speaker 1: I think I was very lucky because I was I
Speaker 1: ended up being a fairly young guy on a fairly
Speaker 1: old team thanks to George Allen initially and his approach.
Speaker 1: I mean, he really went after veterans and we started
Speaker 1: to see my first year with four rookies and I
Speaker 1: was the only one that even finished the season. It
Speaker 1: was a real veteran team, so you really focused on
Speaker 1: trying to fit in with them. I was very fortunate
Speaker 1: in that I ended up for seven years car pooling
Speaker 1: with Merlin Olsen and we drove about thirty miles each
Speaker 1: way to work and going home, and you started talking
Speaker 1: philosophy and what makes sense with what you're doing and
Speaker 1: what you're not doing, and how do you play the
Speaker 1: game and how do we fit together, and how don't
Speaker 1: we fit together? And same with our other teammates. That
Speaker 1: to me was a huge extra that I got out
Speaker 1: of football. Besides the guy being a dear friend, I mean,
Speaker 1: he was also very philosophical about what we were doing
Speaker 1: and why we were doing it. So it was a
Speaker 1: great experience. You mean, like why we're playing football, why
Speaker 1: we're here, that type of stuff. I mean, that's that
Speaker 1: sounds like something I'd love to hear you and Merlin Olsen.
Speaker 1: You guys were about to butt heads in practice or
Speaker 1: you just butted heads in practice, and now you're driving
Speaker 1: home together talking about philosophy. That's that's really interesting. We
Speaker 1: were lucky in that we were good at we were
Speaker 1: both good at It was a good growth period, I
Speaker 1: would say for both of us, You and Merlin driving
Speaker 1: down the road talking about philosophy. I would have loved
Speaker 1: have been in that backseat. One day when we were
Speaker 1: going to the airport to a out of town game,
Speaker 1: the highway patrol guy stops us and I was driving,
Speaker 1: and I had a seventy one yellow Porsche and he
Speaker 1: actually knew Merlin, and he pulls us off the highway
Speaker 1: and his first statement as he comes up to the
Speaker 1: car is how do you two get in there? He
Speaker 1: spotted Merlin and he just wanted to talk to us.
Speaker 1: Yellows were driving down the road and the yellow pors.
Speaker 1: So nineteen seventy the merger kicks in. Now you've got
Speaker 1: the Niners, the Falcons, and the Saints in your division.
Speaker 1: Is there one team you look forward to playing more
Speaker 1: than the others? Because I couldn't stand playing the Niners.
Speaker 1: But that's the nineties version of the Rams, how about you? Well,
Speaker 1: we played the forty nine ers. Actually, except for the
Speaker 1: last year I played, we played them three times. Every year.
Speaker 1: We always played an exhibitions game against them, used to
Speaker 1: be the last one, and then we played two interdivision games.
Speaker 1: So I figured I ended up playing them. I remember
Speaker 1: counting one time, thirty eight times or something like that,
Speaker 1: down twelve exhibitions and whatnot. It was interesting when you
Speaker 1: went up to San Francisco. That was really a very
Speaker 1: in many ways, a very hard place, partly because of
Speaker 1: the fans, but they were kind of disconnected from football.
Speaker 1: If you remember that was well, I played at TSAR
Speaker 1: number one, number two. It was out in an area
Speaker 1: called hate Ashbury. Yeah, everybody was a little happy no
Speaker 1: matter what. They didn't care what the forty Niners did. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we had good time and we had a very very
Speaker 1: good record against them during that period of time. I think,
Speaker 1: especially when they had such a good team in the eighties,
Speaker 1: they ended up catching up with us, But I think
Speaker 1: at one point we were way ahead in terms of
Speaker 1: head to head games and how we had done one
Speaker 1: way or the other, no doubt. Yeah, I lost ten
Speaker 1: straight before I actually beat him, so I apologize, but
Speaker 1: they got it back on track. They got it back
Speaker 1: on track. So we do this on Ram's iconic We
Speaker 1: Love This and It's Fun, where we asked the guys
Speaker 1: to kind of remember their favorite play, one play that
Speaker 1: stands out above all others, One of my most favorite
Speaker 1: plays about me. It was a non productive play. It
Speaker 1: was just the time the game had actually slowed down
Speaker 1: in my mind for me, and it was just one
Speaker 1: of those watershed moments. It actually was in San Francisco
Speaker 1: and I didn't make a play. It was just wow,
Speaker 1: I can do this, it's different. I became a pro
Speaker 1: that day. Is there a play that stands out in
Speaker 1: your mind, something you can remember? Interestingly enough? Probably the
Speaker 1: game that changed what I was doing in terms of
Speaker 1: whether I was going to be a good football player
Speaker 1: or not. Happen in college, and it happened at the
Speaker 1: Rose Bowl. And the play was I was a tackle
Speaker 1: rather than a guard, but it was a quick pitch
Speaker 1: type of play to what was our fullback at the
Speaker 1: time and kind of a sweep around the right end
Speaker 1: with me and the lead because we had used our
Speaker 1: wide receiver to block down and the play broke. Lanthony
Speaker 1: was our fullback. I remember him because he still holds
Speaker 1: the Rose Bowl record. It boy, he ran eighty four
Speaker 1: yards for a touchdown. I had gotten out in front
Speaker 1: of him and then caught a guy with kind of
Speaker 1: an arm block and knocked him down. So I kept
Speaker 1: running and I ended up running eighty four yards with
Speaker 1: him and kind of green in down the field. And
Speaker 1: if there was a game that made a difference in
Speaker 1: my career, probably was that Rose Bowl because all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, everybody noticed, here's this big, dumb tackle and
Speaker 1: he's running faster than the fullback. So it was just
Speaker 1: like everyone knows who you are and what you can do,
Speaker 1: not so much that it proved something to yourself. It
Speaker 1: was like, hey, now you see what I can do
Speaker 1: as a player. You see, we got a lot in
Speaker 1: common except going the other way. I think I gave
Speaker 1: up a Rose Bowl record rushing yards when we played
Speaker 1: Michigan in the Rose Bowl. Tyrone Wheatley like ripped three
Speaker 1: big runs on us in the Rose Bowl. That's so funny. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So your greatest memory is one of one of our
Speaker 1: worst nightmares. So I had Dennis harra On, who's a character,
Speaker 1: Love him. Dennis, and Jackie Slater, who I respect big time.
Speaker 1: They all talk about you with reverence, but they always
Speaker 1: talk about what you did after football, what you be
Speaker 1: came once you left the game. You were in charge
Speaker 1: of a nucle year plant. Is that what I heard?
Speaker 1: Am I reading this correctly? I have an engineering degree
Speaker 1: in mechanical engineering, which was why I had gone to
Speaker 1: school figure and I could play football for four years
Speaker 1: and then I finish up, which I did finish up
Speaker 1: and got my mechanical engineering degree. I was fortunate enough
Speaker 1: year after I graduated to do a kind of a
Speaker 1: quick business speaking engagement in downtown Los Angeles, and a
Speaker 1: gentleman who happened to be with a big engineering construction
Speaker 1: firm was one of the participants or members of kind
Speaker 1: of the group that I was doing this speaking to
Speaker 1: the result of all that is in conversations, he offered
Speaker 1: to let me come down to the company and review
Speaker 1: for a job and see if I was interested in
Speaker 1: working in the off season while I played football. And
Speaker 1: the deal kind of ended up that we're not going
Speaker 1: to tell anybody you're playing football. You come and you
Speaker 1: become an engineer, and I'll work it. So five to
Speaker 1: six months after you start. As soon as the season's over,
Speaker 1: I will let you go. You go back to football,
Speaker 1: and then you come back to us and the next
Speaker 1: off season I actually had to quit and get rehired,
Speaker 1: and I did that nine times while I worked in
Speaker 1: the off season for this big engineering firm, and the
Speaker 1: company's name was turned out Bechtel. Bechtel is I think
Speaker 1: they still are the largest engineering construction firm in the world.
Speaker 1: They go up and down in terms of what they've
Speaker 1: bill but among other things, we built probably half the
Speaker 1: nuclear units in the United States, nuclear power units, and
Speaker 1: I was a project manager on one of those nuclear
Speaker 1: power units down in Arizona. So I guess after nine years,
Speaker 1: I cut my teeth enough that I kind of knew
Speaker 1: what I was doing and it was a wonderful opportunity
Speaker 1: for me. The result was over thirty years. I ended
Speaker 1: up working for the company thirty four years. So I
Speaker 1: was very fortunate I had a second career beyond football,
Speaker 1: and lucky that I got to do that. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a big believer in the student athlete,
Speaker 1: and I think you're proof positive that it is possible.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't we all strive to have second careers, to plan
Speaker 1: for the future and still be great at football at
Speaker 1: the same time. It is possible. Yeah, now, very very
Speaker 1: definitely that That was something that my parents interesting left.
Speaker 1: My dad had played professional baseball for the Cleveland Indians,
Speaker 1: and when he was doing that, they talked to me
Speaker 1: and said, you know, one of the reasons Dad did
Speaker 1: that is he also had gotten an engineering degree from
Speaker 1: a university in Cleveland, Case University, which was a very
Speaker 1: good engineering school, and he ended up not partly because
Speaker 1: of the Second World War and some other stuff, he
Speaker 1: did not end up finding a home, so to speak,
Speaker 1: for where he could grow while he was playing ball,
Speaker 1: and my parents made a big deal of the fact
Speaker 1: that if I was going to try to play professional football,
Speaker 1: I needed to be sure, I found someplace else in
Speaker 1: the world, so to speak, in the business world or
Speaker 1: something else that I was going to do that I
Speaker 1: could call home and grow. And that's very much way
Speaker 1: I did. I mean, that's to me, that's the only
Speaker 1: way to play. I mean, it's all consuming. You got
Speaker 1: to be dedicated to play at this level and to
Speaker 1: be great, to be a Hall of Famer, you got
Speaker 1: to take it up just a notch above everyone else.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you can't be your end all be all,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Your life can't end when
Speaker 1: the game ends. You have to be able to move
Speaker 1: on after. And I think you know that better than anyone.
Speaker 1: Your father played second base, right, yes, okay, so he's
Speaker 1: got to be, you know, fleet footed pretty quick, and
Speaker 1: he gave birth to a guard I would put him
Speaker 1: as a better athlete than I was. One of the
Speaker 1: things that nobody knows is I have very bad eyes.
Speaker 1: I have real trouble seeing. I have like twenty four
Speaker 1: hundred vision. But I solve that problem while I was
Speaker 1: in high school because I became a swimmer, and you
Speaker 1: can actually swim with your eyes closed as long as
Speaker 1: you know how long the pool is. And so that
Speaker 1: was my best in high school and my swim coach
Speaker 1: still marvels is the fact that I end up playing
Speaker 1: professional football, so you never know thinks you're going to
Speaker 1: turn out. Wow, Yeah, you can swim with your eyes closed,
Speaker 1: It's just that the learning curve gets a little painful.
Speaker 1: One stroke too many in pow. Good stuff. Hey man,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy and so glad that we got you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on and doing this with us. It's
Speaker 1: real good. I mean, look, we hope this current group
Speaker 1: makes it. If you had to line up in front
Speaker 1: of Aaron Donald, what would you do well, I'd probably
Speaker 1: do the same thing that I did when I lined
Speaker 1: up across from Merlin or practice or you know. You
Speaker 1: take your licks and sometimes you beat them and sometimes
Speaker 1: they beat you. Amen to that, I would suggest trying
Speaker 1: to cut him first, but just see if that works
Speaker 1: and work from there. But Tom Mack, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us, man, this is really good, my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me on. Let's a
Speaker 1: wrap one another pisoda Ram's iconic. I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: our conversation with Hall of Famer Tom Mac. Don't forget
Speaker 1: to hit that subscribe button and be so kind and
Speaker 1: go ahead and leave us at review. Let us know
Speaker 1: which Rams legends you'd like to hear from. And there's
Speaker 1: still time to be among the first to experience so
Speaker 1: Far Stadium. To purchase tickets, visit the Rams dot com
Speaker 1: slash twenty twenty one. That's the Rams dot Com slash
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Thanks for listening. I'm demarco' far. We'll
Speaker 1: see you next time on Rams Iconic