Speaker 1: Most of the pis that I know are former cops.
Speaker 2: They're middle aged white dudes for the most part, right,
Speaker 2: and they got a cop vibe to them. And so
Speaker 2: depending on where you're going, who you're talking to, you
Speaker 2: don't necessarily want to talk to something it looks like
Speaker 2: a cop.
Speaker 3: This is doctor Amanda Lewis. She helps select cases for
Speaker 3: Georgetown's making an ex hoonery program where people in prison
Speaker 3: claiming innocence can have their convictions reinvestigated. These investigations aren't
Speaker 3: led by police or lawyers or private investigators. Instead, they're
Speaker 3: assigned to groups of undergrad students.
Speaker 2: That is one thing that makes the students so invaluable
Speaker 2: with reinvestigation.
Speaker 1: First of all, they're curious.
Speaker 2: They actually sometimes don't know a lot about these things,
Speaker 2: so they'll ask questions that I wouldn't think to ask,
Speaker 2: or they really don't understand and it so they allow
Speaker 2: people to explain more and talk more. They're not necessarily intimidating.
Speaker 2: Typically people want to talk, so that is usually helpful.
Speaker 3: A group of three students is assigned to investigate Kevin
Speaker 3: Herrick's case, along with a third year law student, Nick White,
Speaker 3: Amanda's husband.
Speaker 4: When I find something immediately go to like property records,
Speaker 4: I go to these things.
Speaker 1: She starts.
Speaker 4: She thinks in people more than I do. I think
Speaker 4: through documents, and she thinks through people.
Speaker 3: Can you describe like the difference in the energy that
Speaker 3: you bring to this case, and like what that's like
Speaker 3: working together, and just what strengths one of others have?
Speaker 1: Like how does that work between you? I think we
Speaker 1: have totally opposite She drives me nuts.
Speaker 4: I don't by throwing chaos into my carefully crafted folders.
Speaker 1: And yeah, no, it's true.
Speaker 3: I mean Amanda has a knack for getting to the
Speaker 3: bottom of a case through finding people who might know something, gotten.
Speaker 2: Really interested and first of all, just like boots on
Speaker 2: the ground, door knocking. I don't know what it's being
Speaker 2: from a small town. I love talking people. People just
Speaker 2: open up to me about their stuff. Maybe it's because
Speaker 2: I overshare.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've found a way that to
Speaker 1: make it really useful. I love that part of that.
Speaker 2: I love this.
Speaker 3: They'll work with three undergrads who will spend months digging
Speaker 3: into Kevin's case.
Speaker 2: It's a group project, right, and it is the most
Speaker 2: difficult group project anyone will ever work on. And I
Speaker 2: would say that, like in this particular group, it is
Speaker 2: an amazing group of students that works really well together
Speaker 2: and all have their own specific strengths and things that
Speaker 2: they bring to the table. Got obviously sweet baby Brett.
Speaker 5: My life's purpose is to work with incarcerated people and
Speaker 5: help them get back with the prison system stole from them.
Speaker 2: Who is a delight and just a really sweet and
Speaker 2: great young man.
Speaker 3: There's Ava Hi.
Speaker 6: My name is Ava Kaburat.
Speaker 1: She is really really smart. She was quieter at herst and.
Speaker 6: I'm really hoping to be a part of the Spring
Speaker 6: twenty twenty five cohort for Thing Making Any Sooner.
Speaker 7: Class one my name is Nina.
Speaker 2: Nina who was wonderful, very outspoken, very loud, like I mean,
Speaker 2: I am as well.
Speaker 7: I will try everything to get these people justice in
Speaker 7: a system that doesn't.
Speaker 8: Give it out.
Speaker 3: But when the students got their assignments, Nina wasn't eager
Speaker 3: to work on Kevin's case.
Speaker 7: I got assigned Kevin's case, and I remember the first
Speaker 7: day I was like, I want to switch off. I
Speaker 7: was like, I'm not taking this, I'm just not doing it.
Speaker 7: I just was really vehemently opposed to working on a
Speaker 7: sexual assault case. I always want to believe the victim,
Speaker 7: and I just I was like, I'm not taking this.
Speaker 7: I'm just not doing it.
Speaker 3: She even told Mark Howard, the co director of making
Speaker 3: an ex Hoonare, that she wanted a different.
Speaker 7: Case, and Mark said, well, this is the case you're
Speaker 7: working on, so you can drop the class or you
Speaker 7: can stand the case. So I said, you know what,
Speaker 7: let me do you one better. I'll read the case
Speaker 7: and I'll prove to you that he's guilty. It's all there,
Speaker 7: So let me read the case and prove to you
Speaker 7: that he's guilty. I got it. I just had no
Speaker 7: clue what I was getting myself into.
Speaker 3: Do you hear my madness?
Speaker 1: Laughter you.
Speaker 3: Sorrows down, sorrowing.
Speaker 1: Miss Ballly s.
Speaker 3: Yes, bone Valley Kevin is next Part two.
Speaker 7: There's no rule book, there's no right. Nobody says, here's
Speaker 7: the case. And then once you read the case, then
Speaker 7: talk to X Y Z person and Buba. No one
Speaker 7: gives you that shit. You have got to create a playbook.
Speaker 3: When Nina, Ava and Brett get started, one of the
Speaker 3: first things they do is read the trial transcript.
Speaker 7: We researched everything.
Speaker 3: The trial itself lasted only two days. There's not a
Speaker 3: whole lot of pages to go through, but the students
Speaker 3: aren't just reading. They're dissecting line by line, look looking
Speaker 3: for a clear timeline in the victim's accounts of what
Speaker 3: happened that night, and whether the pieces actually fit. The
Speaker 3: first witness called at trial is Cheryl Kevin's neighbor with
Speaker 3: the baby, who says she was sexually assaulted that night.
Speaker 3: She testifies that on the night of the attack, she
Speaker 3: was home alone with the baby while her boyfriend Scott
Speaker 3: was out. She went to bed, then woke to an
Speaker 3: intruder on top of her, pressing a sharp object to
Speaker 3: her neck. She says he threatened to hurt her or
Speaker 3: her baby if she didn't comply, and says he briefly
Speaker 3: forced his penis into her mouth. It was pitch black,
Speaker 3: she says, and she couldn't get a clear look at
Speaker 3: the attacker. Next on the stand is Scott Barfield. He
Speaker 3: says that after returning to the triplex that night, he
Speaker 3: was smoking a cigarette outside when he heard whimpering insiderushed
Speaker 3: in and fought with the assailant in the dark. During
Speaker 3: the struggle, Scott was stabbed twice in the chest, shallow
Speaker 3: wounds that left only minor injuries. The next part of
Speaker 3: Scott's testimony is hard to follow, but here's the best
Speaker 3: I can do to boil it down. Scott says the
Speaker 3: assailant tried to leave through the locked, sliding glass door,
Speaker 3: then exited out the front. Scott chased him down the block,
Speaker 3: over a fence, and into the parking lot of another complex.
Speaker 3: Bleeding and unwilling to confront him again, Scott crouched near
Speaker 3: a row of boats parked on trailers, trying to get
Speaker 3: a look at the man who had attacked him and
Speaker 3: his girlfriend. He thought he saw the man climb into
Speaker 3: a car. Scott says he memorized the license plate number
Speaker 3: and then ran back toward the triplex. By then, several
Speaker 3: neighbors had come outside after hearing Sheryl screams about the
Speaker 3: attack as she stood holding her baby. At first a skeptic,
Speaker 3: Nina studies the transcript, trying to follow Scott's testimony. As
Speaker 3: she reads, she sketched the diagram and labels everyone who
Speaker 3: is standing in the courtyard of the triplex. There were
Speaker 3: the victims, Eryl and her baby, missus Pori, Pat's mom,
Speaker 3: the woman on oxygen who Kevin was living with, Teresa,
Speaker 3: the young couple living in the other.
Speaker 7: Unit, Barbara and Dave Stewart, and one more person, Kevin's
Speaker 7: standing right there.
Speaker 3: But if Kevin was standing there when Scott returned, how
Speaker 3: could he also be the man Scott chased over a
Speaker 3: fence and saw getting into a car.
Speaker 9: Hey, y'all, it's Maggie. I'm here to tell you about
Speaker 9: a new show I've been working on for the past
Speaker 9: two years. It's called Graves County and it's an investigative
Speaker 9: series about the murder of a young mom in Kentucky
Speaker 9: and just how far our legal system will go in
Speaker 9: order to find someone to blame. Here is the trailer
Speaker 9: for Graves County.
Speaker 8: All I know is what I've been told, and that's
Speaker 8: a half truth is a whole lie.
Speaker 9: For almost a decade, the murder of an eighteen year
Speaker 9: old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky,
Speaker 9: went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a
Speaker 9: handful of girls came forward with a story.
Speaker 10: I'm telling you we know when we know.
Speaker 9: A story that law enforcement used to convict six people,
Speaker 9: and that got the citizen investigator on national TV.
Speaker 1: Through sheer, persistence and nerve.
Speaker 10: This Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Current.
Speaker 9: My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning
Speaker 9: journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth
Speaker 9: were that easy to find.
Speaker 5: I did not know her, and I did not kill her,
Speaker 5: or raid or burn or any of that other stuff
Speaker 5: that y'all said.
Speaker 11: They literally made me say that I took a match
Speaker 11: and struck and threw it on her. They made me
Speaker 11: say that I poor guests on her.
Speaker 9: From love of for Good, This is Graves County, a
Speaker 9: show about just how far our legal system will go
Speaker 9: in order to find someone to blame Marka.
Speaker 1: Y'all got to work the hell up. Bad things happens
Speaker 1: to good people and small towns.
Speaker 9: Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley Feed starting
Speaker 9: September seventeenth on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever
Speaker 9: you get your podcasts, and to binge the entire season
Speaker 9: ad free. Subscribe to LoVa for Good plus on Apple podcasts.
Speaker 3: One of the biggest issues with the theory that Kevin
Speaker 3: committed this crime is that there was someone with him
Speaker 3: all night who had no reason to lie about what
Speaker 3: she saw. Teresa Pori was essentially guarding the only way
Speaker 3: in and out of the apartment, the front door. In
Speaker 3: her deposition, she says Kevin came home that night then
Speaker 3: went into bed, and that she sat in the living
Speaker 3: room watching TV when she heard Cheryl screaming. She went
Speaker 3: into Kevin's room to wake him up. She says, there's
Speaker 3: there's no way he could have left without her knowing,
Speaker 3: and the layout of the apartment backs her up. The
Speaker 3: Pory's unit had three sliding glass doors that opened onto
Speaker 3: the back patio, one in Kevin's room, one in the
Speaker 3: living room, and one in Missus Pory's bedroom, but none
Speaker 3: of them offered a realistic escape room. The door to
Speaker 3: Kevin's room was jammed off its rails, blocked by furniture
Speaker 3: and construction supplies. If Kevin had used it, he would
Speaker 3: have had to drag it open and maneuver through obstacles
Speaker 3: silently and in seconds. The living room door was directly
Speaker 3: in missus Pory's line of sight as she sat on
Speaker 3: the couch watching TV, and the sliding door to missus
Speaker 3: Pory's bedroom was on the other side of the living room,
Speaker 3: meaning Kevin would have had to sneak right past her
Speaker 3: to use it. As missus Pory put it in her testimony,
Speaker 3: he was asleep when I went in there. That boy
Speaker 3: was asleep. There was no time for that boy to
Speaker 3: come in there to hop in bed. By the time
Speaker 3: I got from here to that bedroom, I would have
Speaker 3: seen him get in the bed. There was no time,
Speaker 3: because that's how fast I ran back to get him.
Speaker 3: For Scott's story to be true, Kevin would have had
Speaker 3: to leave the Pory's apartment without being seen or heard
Speaker 3: by Teresa. He'd have to walk around the building to
Speaker 3: Cheryl and Scott's apartment next door, attack Cheryl, fight with Scott,
Speaker 3: stab him, run out the front door, get chased by
Speaker 3: Scott a few blocks, sneak back into his bedroom, and
Speaker 3: pretend to be asleep again without Teresa noticing him. So
Speaker 3: now the students have to decide which makes more sense
Speaker 3: Scott's story that Kevin was responsible for the attacks or
Speaker 3: missus Pori's testimony that Kevin never left the apartment.
Speaker 7: Okay, let's walk the dog with me here.
Speaker 3: Nina started out wanting to prove Kevin guilty, but when
Speaker 3: she worked through the timeline and testimony, she realized the
Speaker 3: pieces didn't fit the way Scott said they did. Kevin
Speaker 3: supposedly ran everywhere, but all the evidence pointed to him
Speaker 3: never leaving the triplex. Missus Pori said he never went
Speaker 3: anywhere and there was no way he could have gotten
Speaker 3: in or out without her seeing him.
Speaker 7: Like, you can't walk the dog with me. The dog
Speaker 7: is still stationary because there's nothing to walk. Now, screw
Speaker 7: the timeline, right say, somehow he made it work.
Speaker 3: Even then, if Kevin attacked Cheryl and stab Scott, there
Speaker 3: should have been something left behind, some trace in the
Speaker 3: apartment pointing back to him.
Speaker 6: They collected hair, and they collected fingerprints from the crime scene.
Speaker 6: This is ava They were able to show that the
Speaker 6: hair didn't match Kevin's through micro analysis that they did.
Speaker 3: They also compared the bloody prints on the door from
Speaker 3: where the assailant tried to escape to Kevin's prince, and.
Speaker 6: They showed the fingerprints didn't match Kevin either. They a
Speaker 6: few of them matched the victim, and the rest of
Speaker 6: them were unidentified. None of the physical evidence matched Kevin.
Speaker 3: Nina may have been skeptical of Kevin at the start,
Speaker 3: but now based on the timeline and the evidence. She
Speaker 3: was questioning herself.
Speaker 7: I was like, crap, this guy might actually he may actually.
Speaker 3: As the students dug deeper, they realized there was so
Speaker 3: much here that seemed to point away from Kevin's guilt.
Speaker 3: Here's ava I.
Speaker 6: Think also another one of the issues with this case
Speaker 6: is that there are too many issues. There's a timeline
Speaker 6: in the physical evidence, and the you know, police interference,
Speaker 6: and the crappy attorney and all of this stuff and it.
Speaker 3: And then police misrepresented the evidence. Officers told the victims
Speaker 3: they'd found a bloody knife and clothes in Kevin's room,
Speaker 3: and that the bloody fingerprints on the sliding glass door
Speaker 3: were matched to Kevin. None of this was true, but
Speaker 3: it made a powerful impression at trial.
Speaker 6: We're inclined to believe the victim, especially in sexual assault cases,
Speaker 6: and the issue is that the identification of Kevin didn't
Speaker 6: actually originally come from the victim. It came from the
Speaker 6: police who told them falsely that they found a bloody
Speaker 6: knife and bloody clothing in Kevin's room, which was not
Speaker 6: true at the end of the day. But once you
Speaker 6: tell someone who's just been through a traumatic incident that
Speaker 6: you have a potential suspect, and all they want to
Speaker 6: do is resolve the case and figure out who did
Speaker 6: this and move beyond it. Then it's understandable in a
Speaker 6: way that they would fixate on that, and at that
Speaker 6: point you just can't remove that from their minds.
Speaker 3: In her deposition, Cheryl pointed to Kevin as her attacker.
Speaker 3: On cross examination, Kevin's lawyer asked a simple question.
Speaker 7: Your opinion as to who this was is based on what?
Speaker 7: And she says, they found a bloody knife in his
Speaker 7: room and his fingerprints on our door. That is the
Speaker 7: basis of why she believes Kevin did it, and that's
Speaker 7: a lie.
Speaker 12: There's so many points where somebody could have stopped this.
Speaker 3: This is Brett.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 12: The police could have stopped this, The judge could have
Speaker 12: stopped this, the prosecutor could have stopped this. So many people,
Speaker 12: the jury could have stopped this. It feels like it
Speaker 12: should be so much more difficult for this to happen,
Speaker 12: but then when you actually look at this, it just
Speaker 12: happened so easily.
Speaker 3: By the time they were ready to travel to Florida
Speaker 3: to investigate for themselves, the students had read everything they
Speaker 3: could get their hands on, and then came more.
Speaker 4: Right before this trip, the Innocence Project gave us over
Speaker 4: two thousand pages of documents.
Speaker 3: Yes, so we got Since Nick is advising the student group,
Speaker 3: he and Amanda take on the opposite of their usual roles.
Speaker 3: Nick heads to Florida to be on the ground with
Speaker 3: the undergrads, while Amanda stays behind to work through the
Speaker 3: mountain of documents.
Speaker 1: Documents.
Speaker 2: So, really, the night before your trip and the next day,
Speaker 2: I'm staying up.
Speaker 1: I'm also an I know, so I'm staying up till
Speaker 1: like three am, going through just to see what all
Speaker 1: there is. I'm like skipping.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the students are on the ground in Tampa, knocking
Speaker 3: on doors and visiting key locations in the case, not
Speaker 3: the kinds of places you'd ever find on the grounds
Speaker 3: of Georgetown University.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we just went to Mon's Venus, which is
Speaker 5: the strip club where Patrick Pory and Felicia Pori both
Speaker 5: worked at.
Speaker 3: They also try to talk to anyone else who is
Speaker 3: still alive who might know something about this case.
Speaker 7: I'm really nervous.
Speaker 11: That's gonna be.
Speaker 7: I know that they're not gonna let us a night
Speaker 7: they will.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're students looking into cases that have
Speaker 4: outstanding issues like here we have untested evidence and things
Speaker 4: like that. We're here to talk to you about your
Speaker 4: ex husband. See if you had any information for us.
Speaker 13: That's win somewhere to like, yeah, here, let's go.
Speaker 11: Back to that brand in the car.
Speaker 7: And so we just went to.
Speaker 1: Charly and Scott.
Speaker 7: Neither of them were home. We're gonna try again this evening.
Speaker 3: They investigate at the triplex.
Speaker 8: We just pulled up to the triplex. We have looked
Speaker 8: at photos of this triplex like forever, and we just
Speaker 8: like saw in person. Holy shit, I can't believe, like
Speaker 8: this is where Kevin like whole life has taken from him.
Speaker 3: And they try once again to make Scott's testimony line
Speaker 3: up with Kevin being the assailant.
Speaker 7: Okay, so he runs out through here, this is the fighting.
Speaker 4: Loss story through so he instead comes out this runs that.
Speaker 3: Way, but they can't make it work.
Speaker 1: Doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3: Back in Maryland, Amanda is working her way through this
Speaker 3: new stack of documents.
Speaker 1: And looking mostly focused on depositions and statements.
Speaker 2: But then I see in there a vehicle property report,
Speaker 2: but they have been number and a license plate. And
Speaker 2: we've known from the start of this case, that a
Speaker 2: license plate was yelled out and that we've never had
Speaker 2: the plate number.
Speaker 3: This has always been one of the more disturbing parts
Speaker 3: of Kevin's case. Scott says he told police about the
Speaker 3: life's plate number, and yet none of the officer's reports
Speaker 3: from that night mention a car or a plate. It says,
Speaker 3: if both vanished from police records, so where did that
Speaker 3: number go and who did it belong to? Then comes
Speaker 3: the most surprising part at trial. Scott says he made
Speaker 3: the whole story up. He says he already knew it
Speaker 3: was Kevin, but lied about the license plate to throw
Speaker 3: police off because he wanted to take revenge on Kevin himself.
Speaker 3: He's just been stabbed, his girlfriend has been sexually assaulted,
Speaker 3: his baby's life has been threatened, and his first instinct
Speaker 3: is to lie to the police. Also, when Scott runs
Speaker 3: back to the Triplex, he says he sees Kevin while
Speaker 3: Cheryl and her baby are also still there. If he
Speaker 3: really thought Kevin was the attacker all along, why not
Speaker 3: confront him? And then Scott goes to the hospital to
Speaker 3: get his minor injuries treated, but leave Cheryl and their
Speaker 3: baby standing there with Kevin. Still at the Triplex.
Speaker 7: That makes no sense.
Speaker 3: And now, thirty six years later, Amanda uncovers a document
Speaker 3: buried in the state Attorney's files attached to Kevin's case.
Speaker 3: It's a police report, an investigation into a license plate.
Speaker 1: I see this report, I'm like, what the hell is this?
Speaker 1: And I just see that one page and I get
Speaker 1: so excited, and I so I think.
Speaker 2: I called Nick immediately and I emailed it to all
Speaker 2: the students.
Speaker 1: I'm like, holy shit, is this the plate.
Speaker 3: Amanda immediately files a record's request with the Florida DMV
Speaker 3: on plate Easy five one one W and boom, the
Speaker 3: plate comes back to a nineteen seventy eight Dotson station
Speaker 3: wagon owned at the time by a man named Paul Fordett,
Speaker 3: who lived just down the road from the Triplex. She
Speaker 3: quickly punches for Debt's name into the Panellas County Clerk
Speaker 3: of Court criminal records database.
Speaker 1: Paul Fordett scroll down.
Speaker 2: One criminal charge shows up on their sexual battery nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy nine, and I was like, holy shit. I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm fucking so excited. I'm like so and
Speaker 2: so then I start looking at.
Speaker 1: Those pages again.
Speaker 3: It looks to Amanda like the license plate Scott was
Speaker 3: screaming out that night. The car he said he initially
Speaker 3: tracked to the assailant was registered to a man who
Speaker 3: lived in the neighborhood, a man who had already been
Speaker 3: charged with sexual battery long before Kevin was ever accused
Speaker 3: in this case. Amanda eventually pulls the details on those charges.
Speaker 2: Essentially, he had been sexually abusing a family member for
Speaker 2: four to five years and you know, escalating in that
Speaker 2: behavior and reported to you know, his wife at the time,
Speaker 2: and she reported the police. He pretty much confessed like
Speaker 2: that same day to doing it.
Speaker 3: And that discovery set off a cascade of questions.
Speaker 2: For her limited to that because I started thinking, Okay,
Speaker 2: would somebody that assaulted a child family member be the
Speaker 2: same type of person that committed this crime. So I
Speaker 2: started looking back in the documents and the details of
Speaker 2: the case, like what did he say, how did he
Speaker 2: use the weapon?
Speaker 1: All of those things, And to me, I never.
Speaker 2: Thought that this person who attacked Cheryl planned to stab
Speaker 2: her or the baby, but they clearly were going to
Speaker 2: use that as a threat.
Speaker 3: And then she starts thinking about the legal issues and
Speaker 3: what this single document could mean for Kevin's case. Amanda
Speaker 3: now sees that police did investigate a license plate, but
Speaker 3: it was never included with the records turned over to
Speaker 3: Kevin's defense. Instead, it sat buried in the state Attorney's office,
Speaker 3: so Kevin's lawyers never had a chance to see it.
Speaker 3: For Kevin's defense, this piece of paper could have pointed
Speaker 3: to an alternate suspect and an alternate theory of the crime,
Speaker 3: evidence that could have raised reasonable doubt in front of
Speaker 3: a jury. Under the law, withholding that kind of material
Speaker 3: is a Brady violation when prosecutors failed to disclose evidence
Speaker 3: that could help the defense. And the question now was
Speaker 3: what were Amanda and Nick going to do about it?
Speaker 4: Which she started doing is diving in, like, Okay, who
Speaker 4: can I find who might talk to us? And so
Speaker 4: she started diving in to his relatives.
Speaker 3: And then she wants to know more about this Paul
Speaker 3: for Debt guy and whether people around him thought he
Speaker 3: was capable of committing a crime like this. Amanda searches
Speaker 3: online and finds that for Debt died in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 3: but his Facebook page still shows two friends. To Amanda,
Speaker 3: one looks like a bot, the other is a woman
Speaker 3: living in rural central Florida.
Speaker 1: And this lady just looks like a really nice lady.
Speaker 1: She is in Teddy.
Speaker 2: She has all these animals, all these dogs, and like
Speaker 2: we're big animal people.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, this lady, I don't like something about this.
Speaker 1: I feel like she's gonna help No, it's good. Well,
Speaker 1: it's what's so crazy too, is I saw.
Speaker 2: You online before I even had all the puzzle pieces,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, she's gonna have somehow.
Speaker 1: I know she's gonna help us like this.
Speaker 3: Amanda eventually reached the woman for privacy we'll call her Shirley.
Speaker 3: On their first phone call, Amanda asked what she knew
Speaker 3: about the man who owned the car at the time
Speaker 3: of the attack. Shirley said she actually lived on the
Speaker 3: same property as him.
Speaker 13: For a few years. My husband dealt with him. I
Speaker 13: didn't want to deal with him, but then when my
Speaker 13: husband passed away, I started to be the one that
Speaker 13: I would go to him and say, I'm going grocery shopping,
Speaker 13: do you need anything. I'm always been the peacemaker mediator.
Speaker 13: I'll handle this, I'll handle that. So that's how I
Speaker 13: got to know him. I never got to know him
Speaker 13: like well, because he had no people skills. None. If
Speaker 13: I were to label him, I would say he was
Speaker 13: either brain damaged or just the most selfish person I've
Speaker 13: ever met in my life. So that's how I got
Speaker 13: to know him.
Speaker 3: After sharing that, Shirley told Amanda something surprising. After Paul died,
Speaker 3: she ended up with all of his possessions.
Speaker 1: Who wants to deal with this?
Speaker 13: And it was junk. I mean I went through it
Speaker 13: a few times. I looked around to see if there
Speaker 13: was anything of value, but he was junk.
Speaker 3: But Amanda had a feeling there could be something valuable
Speaker 3: and his belonging, maybe fingerprints they could compare with those
Speaker 3: collected from SHERYLN. Scott's sliding glass door. So she and
Speaker 3: Nick went to Shirley's and I went with them. I
Speaker 3: mean they also brought along Cliff Blum, a former detective
Speaker 3: turned private investigator, to photograph anything that might serve as evidence.
Speaker 1: So you packed all this stuff up and brought it
Speaker 1: over here.
Speaker 2: Today, and that's fir yes.
Speaker 13: And so this stuff I couldn't find a bag pig
Speaker 13: en up for it, So I figured if I use
Speaker 13: gloves and I put it in the cardboard box, that's fine.
Speaker 13: And then the rest of it is. You could see
Speaker 13: I found some big party bags. Amazing, you can take
Speaker 13: all of this stuff with you. So when I first
Speaker 13: got contacted by Amanda and I started looking around, and
Speaker 13: she specifically said, if you see anything like a knife? Well,
Speaker 13: I was like, oh, yeah, there's a pen knife somewhere.
Speaker 3: Shirley found the knife among Paul's below longings. The knife
Speaker 3: is small, precise, almost like a scalpel, the same kind
Speaker 3: of weapon described in the attack.
Speaker 13: Well, this knife has been sitting on the desk, and
Speaker 13: it has been sitting on that desk all that time,
Speaker 13: but I picked it up several times.
Speaker 3: Cliff, the former detective, starts taking photos.
Speaker 1: Of the knife.
Speaker 3: I mean, how would you describe that knife? Is that
Speaker 3: there's a name for that kind of.
Speaker 10: Knife, Cliff, this is I mean, it's it's it's old.
Speaker 10: I'll tell you that it's it's pretty much just a
Speaker 10: two bladed pocket knife, about six inches long. There's a stand.
Speaker 3: While we were there, Kevin called Nick, who headed the
Speaker 3: phone to Shirley. Kevin, like Leo Schofield, is a deeply
Speaker 3: spiritual man, with a theology degree of his own.
Speaker 13: I'm good.
Speaker 10: I certainly want to tell you thank you very much
Speaker 10: for everything that you've been doing. Again to tell you
Speaker 10: how how important it might say.
Speaker 13: I'm hopeful and I'm praying for you.
Speaker 10: I appreciate that. I definitely appreciate that's been a long ride.
Speaker 10: You know. God, obviously, if you're praying, you're praying to God.
Speaker 10: I pray Jesus and then yeah, yep, Well that tells
Speaker 10: me that that he's got plans and he's got to
Speaker 10: take care of it. He's been taking care of me
Speaker 10: for a long long time, so and he's got good,
Speaker 10: good plans for this.
Speaker 13: I have a good friend who always says, that's not odd,
Speaker 13: that's just God, and that's great. And I had another
Speaker 13: pastor who said, there are converging lines of destiny that
Speaker 13: God puts together from the beginning of time. And I
Speaker 13: really really believe that. But regardless of I never meet
Speaker 13: you face to face, I know where all I'll meet you.
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, we'll see each other up there, and I'll
Speaker 10: definitely we'll have me that's God. I'm going to use that.
Speaker 10: I get to preach pretty regularly a lot of people
Speaker 10: that made it, so I'm going to use that one
Speaker 10: for sure.
Speaker 13: Okay, all right, God bless you.
Speaker 3: We don't know if this knife is the one used
Speaker 3: at the crime scene. We don't know if the man
Speaker 3: who owned it was the person who assaulted Cheryl, threatened
Speaker 3: her baby, and attacks Scott. There's still forensic testing an
Speaker 3: investigation to be done. But here's what we do know.
Speaker 3: This document that Amanda found, the investigation into a license
Speaker 3: plate buried in the State Attorney's files, could be the
Speaker 3: opening that gives Kevin Herrick what he's never had a
Speaker 3: fair trial. Amanda's worked on so many cases where she
Speaker 3: know someone is innocent, but there's nothing that can win
Speaker 3: them another day in court. With Kevin, though, she's found
Speaker 3: evidence that really could make the difference. For the first
Speaker 3: time in decades, Are you hopeful for Kevin?
Speaker 1: I'm really hopeful. I'm really hopeful.
Speaker 2: I just want to fucking do something that helps actually
Speaker 2: get someone out of prison.
Speaker 1: Boar, Sorry, God, but I just want to do that.
Speaker 2: And this is the this is honestly the first time
Speaker 2: I've actually felt like I might actually do that.
Speaker 3: Hello, this is a pre paid call from.
Speaker 4: An nmate had a four nice Department of Corrections institutions.
Speaker 7: She accepts this call for a zero.
Speaker 3: Leo's been keeping his part of the deal he made
Speaker 3: with Kevin to never stop fighting for the one left behind.
Speaker 3: They talk on the phone almost every day, and Chrissy
Speaker 3: is often there watching her husband on the line with
Speaker 3: his best friend.
Speaker 11: The two of them when they're on the phone, what
Speaker 11: I've seen is that Kevin spends a lot of time
Speaker 11: supporting him and encouraging him.
Speaker 1: Dust Burger, what's going on?
Speaker 11: Brow And we got this and we got this. It's
Speaker 11: all about hope, hope, hope for each other.
Speaker 10: Well, I'm doing good, I reckon all things considered.
Speaker 11: One thing that's missing, I think is because they have
Speaker 11: thirty minutes it's recorded, they don't have the opportunity to
Speaker 11: share their deep, deep stuff that's missing. And I think
Speaker 11: that's where there's still this credible gratitude for what they have,
Speaker 11: but this intense longing that they are missing that they
Speaker 11: they uh, they cover up with the the support and
Speaker 11: the hope and and the silliness and that here's what's
Speaker 11: going on.
Speaker 10: They're taking Showers's two feet in front, screaming bigger and your.
Speaker 1: Why you're looking at it?
Speaker 10: That's my response.
Speaker 9: You have one.
Speaker 10: Kind of hate that woman.
Speaker 11: As soon as the phone clicks off his head, goes
Speaker 11: down every time.
Speaker 10: Every time, you keep your head up and keep doing
Speaker 10: what you're doing.
Speaker 3: Brother, I love you, Thank you for using global telling.
Speaker 11: So it's a good thing when they talk to each other,
Speaker 11: but also very very painful. And I would imagine that
Speaker 11: what happened to Kevin too, that he hangs up and
Speaker 11: I'm and he hangs up the phone and has to
Speaker 11: turn around and face here it is again.
Speaker 3: We will be following the new developments Kevin Herrick's case
Speaker 3: as this investigation continues to unfold. Stay tuned for more
Speaker 3: to come. Meanwhile, if you'd like to learn more about
Speaker 3: his case, please visit Kevinisnext dot com