1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Most of the pis that I know are former cops. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 2: They're middle aged white dudes for the most part, right, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 2: and they got a cop vibe to them. And so 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: depending on where you're going, who you're talking to, you 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: don't necessarily want to talk to something it looks like 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 2: a cop. 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 3: This is doctor Amanda Lewis. She helps select cases for 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 3: Georgetown's making an ex hoonery program where people in prison 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 3: claiming innocence can have their convictions reinvestigated. These investigations aren't 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 3: led by police or lawyers or private investigators. Instead, they're 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: assigned to groups of undergrad students. 12 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 2: That is one thing that makes the students so invaluable 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: with reinvestigation. 14 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: First of all, they're curious. 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: They actually sometimes don't know a lot about these things, 16 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: so they'll ask questions that I wouldn't think to ask, 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: or they really don't understand and it so they allow 18 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: people to explain more and talk more. They're not necessarily intimidating. 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: Typically people want to talk, so that is usually helpful. 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: A group of three students is assigned to investigate Kevin 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 3: Herrick's case, along with a third year law student, Nick White, 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: Amanda's husband. 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 4: When I find something immediately go to like property records, 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 4: I go to these things. 25 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: She starts. 26 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 4: She thinks in people more than I do. I think 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 4: through documents, and she thinks through people. 28 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 3: Can you describe like the difference in the energy that 29 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 3: you bring to this case, and like what that's like 30 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 3: working together, and just what strengths one of others have? 31 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: Like how does that work between you? I think we 32 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: have totally opposite She drives me nuts. 33 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 4: I don't by throwing chaos into my carefully crafted folders. 34 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, no, it's true. 35 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 3: I mean Amanda has a knack for getting to the 36 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 3: bottom of a case through finding people who might know something, gotten. 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: Really interested and first of all, just like boots on 38 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: the ground, door knocking. I don't know what it's being 39 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: from a small town. I love talking people. People just 40 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: open up to me about their stuff. Maybe it's because 41 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: I overshare. 42 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've found a way that to 43 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: make it really useful. I love that part of that. 44 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: I love this. 45 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: They'll work with three undergrads who will spend months digging 46 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: into Kevin's case. 47 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:11,839 Speaker 2: It's a group project, right, and it is the most 48 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: difficult group project anyone will ever work on. And I 49 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: would say that, like in this particular group, it is 50 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: an amazing group of students that works really well together 51 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: and all have their own specific strengths and things that 52 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: they bring to the table. Got obviously sweet baby Brett. 53 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 5: My life's purpose is to work with incarcerated people and 54 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 5: help them get back with the prison system stole from them. 55 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 2: Who is a delight and just a really sweet and 56 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 2: great young man. 57 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: There's Ava Hi. 58 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 6: My name is Ava Kaburat. 59 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: She is really really smart. She was quieter at herst and. 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 6: I'm really hoping to be a part of the Spring 61 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 6: twenty twenty five cohort for Thing Making Any Sooner. 62 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 7: Class one my name is Nina. 63 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: Nina who was wonderful, very outspoken, very loud, like I mean, 64 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: I am as well. 65 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 7: I will try everything to get these people justice in 66 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 7: a system that doesn't. 67 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 8: Give it out. 68 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 3: But when the students got their assignments, Nina wasn't eager 69 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: to work on Kevin's case. 70 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 7: I got assigned Kevin's case, and I remember the first 71 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 7: day I was like, I want to switch off. I 72 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 7: was like, I'm not taking this, I'm just not doing it. 73 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 7: I just was really vehemently opposed to working on a 74 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 7: sexual assault case. I always want to believe the victim, 75 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 7: and I just I was like, I'm not taking this. 76 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 7: I'm just not doing it. 77 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: She even told Mark Howard, the co director of making 78 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: an ex Hoonare, that she wanted a different. 79 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 7: Case, and Mark said, well, this is the case you're 80 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 7: working on, so you can drop the class or you 81 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 7: can stand the case. So I said, you know what, 82 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 7: let me do you one better. I'll read the case 83 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 7: and I'll prove to you that he's guilty. It's all there, 84 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 7: So let me read the case and prove to you 85 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 7: that he's guilty. I got it. I just had no 86 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 7: clue what I was getting myself into. 87 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 3: Do you hear my madness? 88 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: Laughter you. 89 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: Sorrows down, sorrowing. 90 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: Miss Ballly s. 91 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: Yes, bone Valley Kevin is next Part two. 92 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 7: There's no rule book, there's no right. Nobody says, here's 93 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 7: the case. And then once you read the case, then 94 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 7: talk to X Y Z person and Buba. No one 95 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 7: gives you that shit. You have got to create a playbook. 96 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: When Nina, Ava and Brett get started, one of the 97 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: first things they do is read the trial transcript. 98 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 7: We researched everything. 99 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 3: The trial itself lasted only two days. There's not a 100 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: whole lot of pages to go through, but the students 101 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 3: aren't just reading. They're dissecting line by line, look looking 102 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: for a clear timeline in the victim's accounts of what 103 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 3: happened that night, and whether the pieces actually fit. The 104 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 3: first witness called at trial is Cheryl Kevin's neighbor with 105 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: the baby, who says she was sexually assaulted that night. 106 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 3: She testifies that on the night of the attack, she 107 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 3: was home alone with the baby while her boyfriend Scott 108 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: was out. She went to bed, then woke to an 109 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 3: intruder on top of her, pressing a sharp object to 110 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 3: her neck. She says he threatened to hurt her or 111 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 3: her baby if she didn't comply, and says he briefly 112 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: forced his penis into her mouth. It was pitch black, 113 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 3: she says, and she couldn't get a clear look at 114 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 3: the attacker. Next on the stand is Scott Barfield. He 115 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: says that after returning to the triplex that night, he 116 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: was smoking a cigarette outside when he heard whimpering insiderushed 117 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: in and fought with the assailant in the dark. During 118 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: the struggle, Scott was stabbed twice in the chest, shallow 119 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: wounds that left only minor injuries. The next part of 120 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 3: Scott's testimony is hard to follow, but here's the best 121 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 3: I can do to boil it down. Scott says the 122 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: assailant tried to leave through the locked, sliding glass door, 123 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: then exited out the front. Scott chased him down the block, 124 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: over a fence, and into the parking lot of another complex. 125 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: Bleeding and unwilling to confront him again, Scott crouched near 126 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: a row of boats parked on trailers, trying to get 127 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: a look at the man who had attacked him and 128 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 3: his girlfriend. He thought he saw the man climb into 129 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: a car. Scott says he memorized the license plate number 130 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 3: and then ran back toward the triplex. By then, several 131 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 3: neighbors had come outside after hearing Sheryl screams about the 132 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: attack as she stood holding her baby. At first a skeptic, 133 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: Nina studies the transcript, trying to follow Scott's testimony. As 134 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: she reads, she sketched the diagram and labels everyone who 135 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: is standing in the courtyard of the triplex. There were 136 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: the victims, Eryl and her baby, missus Pori, Pat's mom, 137 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: the woman on oxygen who Kevin was living with, Teresa, 138 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 3: the young couple living in the other. 139 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 7: Unit, Barbara and Dave Stewart, and one more person, Kevin's 140 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 7: standing right there. 141 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: But if Kevin was standing there when Scott returned, how 142 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 3: could he also be the man Scott chased over a 143 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:59,119 Speaker 3: fence and saw getting into a car. 144 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 9: Hey, y'all, it's Maggie. I'm here to tell you about 145 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 9: a new show I've been working on for the past 146 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 9: two years. It's called Graves County and it's an investigative 147 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 9: series about the murder of a young mom in Kentucky 148 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 9: and just how far our legal system will go in 149 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 9: order to find someone to blame. Here is the trailer 150 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 9: for Graves County. 151 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 8: All I know is what I've been told, and that's 152 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 8: a half truth is a whole lie. 153 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 9: For almost a decade, the murder of an eighteen year 154 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 9: old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, 155 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 9: went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a 156 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 9: handful of girls came forward with a story. 157 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 10: I'm telling you we know when we know. 158 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 9: A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, 159 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 9: and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. 160 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: Through sheer, persistence and nerve. 161 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 10: This Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Current. 162 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 9: My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning 163 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 9: journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth 164 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 9: were that easy to find. 165 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 5: I did not know her, and I did not kill her, 166 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 5: or raid or burn or any of that other stuff 167 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 5: that y'all said. 168 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 11: They literally made me say that I took a match 169 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 11: and struck and threw it on her. They made me 170 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 11: say that I poor guests on her. 171 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 9: From love of for Good, This is Graves County, a 172 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 9: show about just how far our legal system will go 173 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 9: in order to find someone to blame Marka. 174 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: Y'all got to work the hell up. Bad things happens 175 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: to good people and small towns. 176 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 9: Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley Feed starting 177 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 9: September seventeenth on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 178 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 9: you get your podcasts, and to binge the entire season 179 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 9: ad free. Subscribe to LoVa for Good plus on Apple podcasts. 180 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 3: One of the biggest issues with the theory that Kevin 181 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: committed this crime is that there was someone with him 182 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 3: all night who had no reason to lie about what 183 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: she saw. Teresa Pori was essentially guarding the only way 184 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: in and out of the apartment, the front door. In 185 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 3: her deposition, she says Kevin came home that night then 186 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: went into bed, and that she sat in the living 187 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 3: room watching TV when she heard Cheryl screaming. She went 188 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 3: into Kevin's room to wake him up. She says, there's 189 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 3: there's no way he could have left without her knowing, 190 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: and the layout of the apartment backs her up. The 191 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 3: Pory's unit had three sliding glass doors that opened onto 192 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 3: the back patio, one in Kevin's room, one in the 193 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 3: living room, and one in Missus Pory's bedroom, but none 194 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: of them offered a realistic escape room. The door to 195 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: Kevin's room was jammed off its rails, blocked by furniture 196 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: and construction supplies. If Kevin had used it, he would 197 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 3: have had to drag it open and maneuver through obstacles 198 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: silently and in seconds. The living room door was directly 199 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 3: in missus Pory's line of sight as she sat on 200 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 3: the couch watching TV, and the sliding door to missus 201 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: Pory's bedroom was on the other side of the living room, 202 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 3: meaning Kevin would have had to sneak right past her 203 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 3: to use it. As missus Pory put it in her testimony, 204 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 3: he was asleep when I went in there. That boy 205 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: was asleep. There was no time for that boy to 206 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: come in there to hop in bed. By the time 207 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: I got from here to that bedroom, I would have 208 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: seen him get in the bed. There was no time, 209 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 3: because that's how fast I ran back to get him. 210 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: For Scott's story to be true, Kevin would have had 211 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 3: to leave the Pory's apartment without being seen or heard 212 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 3: by Teresa. He'd have to walk around the building to 213 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: Cheryl and Scott's apartment next door, attack Cheryl, fight with Scott, 214 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: stab him, run out the front door, get chased by 215 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 3: Scott a few blocks, sneak back into his bedroom, and 216 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 3: pretend to be asleep again without Teresa noticing him. So 217 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: now the students have to decide which makes more sense 218 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: Scott's story that Kevin was responsible for the attacks or 219 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 3: missus Pori's testimony that Kevin never left the apartment. 220 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 7: Okay, let's walk the dog with me here. 221 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 3: Nina started out wanting to prove Kevin guilty, but when 222 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: she worked through the timeline and testimony, she realized the 223 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 3: pieces didn't fit the way Scott said they did. Kevin 224 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 3: supposedly ran everywhere, but all the evidence pointed to him 225 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 3: never leaving the triplex. Missus Pori said he never went 226 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: anywhere and there was no way he could have gotten 227 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: in or out without her seeing him. 228 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 7: Like, you can't walk the dog with me. The dog 229 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 7: is still stationary because there's nothing to walk. Now, screw 230 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 7: the timeline, right say, somehow he made it work. 231 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 3: Even then, if Kevin attacked Cheryl and stab Scott, there 232 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 3: should have been something left behind, some trace in the 233 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: apartment pointing back to him. 234 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 6: They collected hair, and they collected fingerprints from the crime scene. 235 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 6: This is ava They were able to show that the 236 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 6: hair didn't match Kevin's through micro analysis that they did. 237 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: They also compared the bloody prints on the door from 238 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 3: where the assailant tried to escape to Kevin's prince, and. 239 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 6: They showed the fingerprints didn't match Kevin either. They a 240 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 6: few of them matched the victim, and the rest of 241 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 6: them were unidentified. None of the physical evidence matched Kevin. 242 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 3: Nina may have been skeptical of Kevin at the start, 243 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: but now based on the timeline and the evidence. She 244 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 3: was questioning herself. 245 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 7: I was like, crap, this guy might actually he may actually. 246 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 3: As the students dug deeper, they realized there was so 247 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 3: much here that seemed to point away from Kevin's guilt. 248 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 3: Here's ava I. 249 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 6: Think also another one of the issues with this case 250 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 6: is that there are too many issues. There's a timeline 251 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 6: in the physical evidence, and the you know, police interference, 252 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 6: and the crappy attorney and all of this stuff and it. 253 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: And then police misrepresented the evidence. Officers told the victims 254 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 3: they'd found a bloody knife and clothes in Kevin's room, 255 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: and that the bloody fingerprints on the sliding glass door 256 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 3: were matched to Kevin. None of this was true, but 257 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: it made a powerful impression at trial. 258 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 6: We're inclined to believe the victim, especially in sexual assault cases, 259 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 6: and the issue is that the identification of Kevin didn't 260 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 6: actually originally come from the victim. It came from the 261 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 6: police who told them falsely that they found a bloody 262 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 6: knife and bloody clothing in Kevin's room, which was not 263 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 6: true at the end of the day. But once you 264 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 6: tell someone who's just been through a traumatic incident that 265 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 6: you have a potential suspect, and all they want to 266 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 6: do is resolve the case and figure out who did 267 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 6: this and move beyond it. Then it's understandable in a 268 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 6: way that they would fixate on that, and at that 269 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 6: point you just can't remove that from their minds. 270 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: In her deposition, Cheryl pointed to Kevin as her attacker. 271 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 3: On cross examination, Kevin's lawyer asked a simple question. 272 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 7: Your opinion as to who this was is based on what? 273 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 7: And she says, they found a bloody knife in his 274 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 7: room and his fingerprints on our door. That is the 275 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 7: basis of why she believes Kevin did it, and that's 276 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 7: a lie. 277 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 12: There's so many points where somebody could have stopped this. 278 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: This is Brett. 279 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 280 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 12: The police could have stopped this, The judge could have 281 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 12: stopped this, the prosecutor could have stopped this. So many people, 282 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 12: the jury could have stopped this. It feels like it 283 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 12: should be so much more difficult for this to happen, 284 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 12: but then when you actually look at this, it just 285 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 12: happened so easily. 286 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: By the time they were ready to travel to Florida 287 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 3: to investigate for themselves, the students had read everything they 288 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 3: could get their hands on, and then came more. 289 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 4: Right before this trip, the Innocence Project gave us over 290 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 4: two thousand pages of documents. 291 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: Yes, so we got Since Nick is advising the student group, 292 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 3: he and Amanda take on the opposite of their usual roles. 293 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 3: Nick heads to Florida to be on the ground with 294 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: the undergrads, while Amanda stays behind to work through the 295 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 3: mountain of documents. 296 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: Documents. 297 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: So, really, the night before your trip and the next day, 298 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: I'm staying up. 299 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: I'm also an I know, so I'm staying up till 300 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: like three am, going through just to see what all 301 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: there is. I'm like skipping. 302 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the students are on the ground in Tampa, knocking 303 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 3: on doors and visiting key locations in the case, not 304 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: the kinds of places you'd ever find on the grounds 305 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 3: of Georgetown University. 306 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, so we just went to Mon's Venus, which is 307 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 5: the strip club where Patrick Pory and Felicia Pori both 308 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 5: worked at. 309 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 3: They also try to talk to anyone else who is 310 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: still alive who might know something about this case. 311 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 7: I'm really nervous. 312 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 11: That's gonna be. 313 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 7: I know that they're not gonna let us a night 314 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 7: they will. 315 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're students looking into cases that have 316 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 4: outstanding issues like here we have untested evidence and things 317 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 4: like that. We're here to talk to you about your 318 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 4: ex husband. See if you had any information for us. 319 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 13: That's win somewhere to like, yeah, here, let's go. 320 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 11: Back to that brand in the car. 321 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 7: And so we just went to. 322 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: Charly and Scott. 323 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 7: Neither of them were home. We're gonna try again this evening. 324 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: They investigate at the triplex. 325 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 8: We just pulled up to the triplex. We have looked 326 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 8: at photos of this triplex like forever, and we just 327 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 8: like saw in person. Holy shit, I can't believe, like 328 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 8: this is where Kevin like whole life has taken from him. 329 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: And they try once again to make Scott's testimony line 330 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 3: up with Kevin being the assailant. 331 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 7: Okay, so he runs out through here, this is the fighting. 332 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 4: Loss story through so he instead comes out this runs that. 333 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 3: Way, but they can't make it work. 334 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: Doesn't make sense. 335 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 3: Back in Maryland, Amanda is working her way through this 336 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 3: new stack of documents. 337 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: And looking mostly focused on depositions and statements. 338 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 2: But then I see in there a vehicle property report, 339 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: but they have been number and a license plate. And 340 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: we've known from the start of this case, that a 341 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: license plate was yelled out and that we've never had 342 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: the plate number. 343 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 3: This has always been one of the more disturbing parts 344 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 3: of Kevin's case. Scott says he told police about the 345 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 3: life's plate number, and yet none of the officer's reports 346 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 3: from that night mention a car or a plate. It says, 347 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 3: if both vanished from police records, so where did that 348 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 3: number go and who did it belong to? Then comes 349 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: the most surprising part at trial. Scott says he made 350 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 3: the whole story up. He says he already knew it 351 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: was Kevin, but lied about the license plate to throw 352 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: police off because he wanted to take revenge on Kevin himself. 353 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 3: He's just been stabbed, his girlfriend has been sexually assaulted, 354 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 3: his baby's life has been threatened, and his first instinct 355 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: is to lie to the police. Also, when Scott runs 356 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 3: back to the Triplex, he says he sees Kevin while 357 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: Cheryl and her baby are also still there. If he 358 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 3: really thought Kevin was the attacker all along, why not 359 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 3: confront him? And then Scott goes to the hospital to 360 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 3: get his minor injuries treated, but leave Cheryl and their 361 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 3: baby standing there with Kevin. Still at the Triplex. 362 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 7: That makes no sense. 363 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 3: And now, thirty six years later, Amanda uncovers a document 364 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: buried in the state Attorney's files attached to Kevin's case. 365 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 3: It's a police report, an investigation into a license plate. 366 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: I see this report, I'm like, what the hell is this? 367 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: And I just see that one page and I get 368 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: so excited, and I so I think. 369 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 2: I called Nick immediately and I emailed it to all 370 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: the students. 371 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, holy shit, is this the plate. 372 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 3: Amanda immediately files a record's request with the Florida DMV 373 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: on plate Easy five one one W and boom, the 374 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: plate comes back to a nineteen seventy eight Dotson station 375 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 3: wagon owned at the time by a man named Paul Fordett, 376 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 3: who lived just down the road from the Triplex. She 377 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 3: quickly punches for Debt's name into the Panellas County Clerk 378 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: of Court criminal records database. 379 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: Paul Fordett scroll down. 380 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 2: One criminal charge shows up on their sexual battery nineteen 381 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: seventy nine, and I was like, holy shit. I was like, 382 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm fucking so excited. I'm like so and 383 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 2: so then I start looking at. 384 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: Those pages again. 385 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 3: It looks to Amanda like the license plate Scott was 386 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 3: screaming out that night. The car he said he initially 387 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: tracked to the assailant was registered to a man who 388 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 3: lived in the neighborhood, a man who had already been 389 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: charged with sexual battery long before Kevin was ever accused 390 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: in this case. Amanda eventually pulls the details on those charges. 391 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: Essentially, he had been sexually abusing a family member for 392 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: four to five years and you know, escalating in that 393 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: behavior and reported to you know, his wife at the time, 394 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 2: and she reported the police. He pretty much confessed like 395 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 2: that same day to doing it. 396 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 3: And that discovery set off a cascade of questions. 397 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: For her limited to that because I started thinking, Okay, 398 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: would somebody that assaulted a child family member be the 399 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: same type of person that committed this crime. So I 400 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 2: started looking back in the documents and the details of 401 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: the case, like what did he say, how did he 402 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: use the weapon? 403 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: All of those things, And to me, I never. 404 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: Thought that this person who attacked Cheryl planned to stab 405 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: her or the baby, but they clearly were going to 406 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: use that as a threat. 407 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 3: And then she starts thinking about the legal issues and 408 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 3: what this single document could mean for Kevin's case. Amanda 409 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 3: now sees that police did investigate a license plate, but 410 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 3: it was never included with the records turned over to 411 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: Kevin's defense. Instead, it sat buried in the state Attorney's office, 412 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 3: so Kevin's lawyers never had a chance to see it. 413 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 3: For Kevin's defense, this piece of paper could have pointed 414 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 3: to an alternate suspect and an alternate theory of the crime, 415 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 3: evidence that could have raised reasonable doubt in front of 416 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: a jury. Under the law, withholding that kind of material 417 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: is a Brady violation when prosecutors failed to disclose evidence 418 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 3: that could help the defense. And the question now was 419 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 3: what were Amanda and Nick going to do about it? 420 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 4: Which she started doing is diving in, like, Okay, who 421 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 4: can I find who might talk to us? And so 422 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 4: she started diving in to his relatives. 423 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 3: And then she wants to know more about this Paul 424 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 3: for Debt guy and whether people around him thought he 425 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 3: was capable of committing a crime like this. Amanda searches 426 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 3: online and finds that for Debt died in twenty twenty three, 427 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 3: but his Facebook page still shows two friends. To Amanda, 428 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 3: one looks like a bot, the other is a woman 429 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 3: living in rural central Florida. 430 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: And this lady just looks like a really nice lady. 431 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: She is in Teddy. 432 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 2: She has all these animals, all these dogs, and like 433 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: we're big animal people. 434 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: So I'm like, this lady, I don't like something about this. 435 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: I feel like she's gonna help No, it's good. Well, 436 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: it's what's so crazy too, is I saw. 437 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: You online before I even had all the puzzle pieces, 438 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: and I'm like, she's gonna have somehow. 439 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: I know she's gonna help us like this. 440 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 3: Amanda eventually reached the woman for privacy we'll call her Shirley. 441 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 3: On their first phone call, Amanda asked what she knew 442 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 3: about the man who owned the car at the time 443 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 3: of the attack. Shirley said she actually lived on the 444 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 3: same property as him. 445 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 13: For a few years. My husband dealt with him. I 446 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 13: didn't want to deal with him, but then when my 447 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 13: husband passed away, I started to be the one that 448 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 13: I would go to him and say, I'm going grocery shopping, 449 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 13: do you need anything. I'm always been the peacemaker mediator. 450 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 13: I'll handle this, I'll handle that. So that's how I 451 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 13: got to know him. I never got to know him 452 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 13: like well, because he had no people skills. None. If 453 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 13: I were to label him, I would say he was 454 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 13: either brain damaged or just the most selfish person I've 455 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 13: ever met in my life. So that's how I got 456 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 13: to know him. 457 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: After sharing that, Shirley told Amanda something surprising. After Paul died, 458 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 3: she ended up with all of his possessions. 459 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: Who wants to deal with this? 460 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 13: And it was junk. I mean I went through it 461 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 13: a few times. I looked around to see if there 462 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 13: was anything of value, but he was junk. 463 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 3: But Amanda had a feeling there could be something valuable 464 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: and his belonging, maybe fingerprints they could compare with those 465 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 3: collected from SHERYLN. Scott's sliding glass door. So she and 466 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 3: Nick went to Shirley's and I went with them. I 467 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 3: mean they also brought along Cliff Blum, a former detective 468 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 3: turned private investigator, to photograph anything that might serve as evidence. 469 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: So you packed all this stuff up and brought it 470 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: over here. 471 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: Today, and that's fir yes. 472 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 13: And so this stuff I couldn't find a bag pig 473 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 13: en up for it, So I figured if I use 474 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 13: gloves and I put it in the cardboard box, that's fine. 475 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 13: And then the rest of it is. You could see 476 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 13: I found some big party bags. Amazing, you can take 477 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 13: all of this stuff with you. So when I first 478 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 13: got contacted by Amanda and I started looking around, and 479 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 13: she specifically said, if you see anything like a knife? Well, 480 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,719 Speaker 13: I was like, oh, yeah, there's a pen knife somewhere. 481 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 3: Shirley found the knife among Paul's below longings. The knife 482 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 3: is small, precise, almost like a scalpel, the same kind 483 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: of weapon described in the attack. 484 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 13: Well, this knife has been sitting on the desk, and 485 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 13: it has been sitting on that desk all that time, 486 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 13: but I picked it up several times. 487 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 3: Cliff, the former detective, starts taking photos. 488 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: Of the knife. 489 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: I mean, how would you describe that knife? Is that 490 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 3: there's a name for that kind of. 491 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 10: Knife, Cliff, this is I mean, it's it's it's old. 492 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 10: I'll tell you that it's it's pretty much just a 493 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 10: two bladed pocket knife, about six inches long. There's a stand. 494 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: While we were there, Kevin called Nick, who headed the 495 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: phone to Shirley. Kevin, like Leo Schofield, is a deeply 496 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 3: spiritual man, with a theology degree of his own. 497 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 13: I'm good. 498 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 10: I certainly want to tell you thank you very much 499 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 10: for everything that you've been doing. Again to tell you 500 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 10: how how important it might say. 501 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 13: I'm hopeful and I'm praying for you. 502 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 10: I appreciate that. I definitely appreciate that's been a long ride. 503 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 10: You know. God, obviously, if you're praying, you're praying to God. 504 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 10: I pray Jesus and then yeah, yep, Well that tells 505 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 10: me that that he's got plans and he's got to 506 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 10: take care of it. He's been taking care of me 507 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 10: for a long long time, so and he's got good, 508 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 10: good plans for this. 509 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 13: I have a good friend who always says, that's not odd, 510 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 13: that's just God, and that's great. And I had another 511 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 13: pastor who said, there are converging lines of destiny that 512 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 13: God puts together from the beginning of time. And I 513 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 13: really really believe that. But regardless of I never meet 514 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 13: you face to face, I know where all I'll meet you. 515 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 10: Oh yeah, we'll see each other up there, and I'll 516 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 10: definitely we'll have me that's God. I'm going to use that. 517 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 10: I get to preach pretty regularly a lot of people 518 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 10: that made it, so I'm going to use that one 519 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 10: for sure. 520 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 13: Okay, all right, God bless you. 521 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 3: We don't know if this knife is the one used 522 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 3: at the crime scene. We don't know if the man 523 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 3: who owned it was the person who assaulted Cheryl, threatened 524 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 3: her baby, and attacks Scott. There's still forensic testing an 525 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 3: investigation to be done. But here's what we do know. 526 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 3: This document that Amanda found, the investigation into a license 527 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 3: plate buried in the State Attorney's files, could be the 528 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 3: opening that gives Kevin Herrick what he's never had a 529 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 3: fair trial. Amanda's worked on so many cases where she 530 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 3: know someone is innocent, but there's nothing that can win 531 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 3: them another day in court. With Kevin, though, she's found 532 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: evidence that really could make the difference. For the first 533 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 3: time in decades, Are you hopeful for Kevin? 534 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm really hopeful. I'm really hopeful. 535 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 2: I just want to fucking do something that helps actually 536 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 2: get someone out of prison. 537 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: Boar, Sorry, God, but I just want to do that. 538 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: And this is the this is honestly the first time 539 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: I've actually felt like I might actually do that. 540 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 3: Hello, this is a pre paid call from. 541 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 4: An nmate had a four nice Department of Corrections institutions. 542 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 7: She accepts this call for a zero. 543 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 3: Leo's been keeping his part of the deal he made 544 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 3: with Kevin to never stop fighting for the one left behind. 545 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: They talk on the phone almost every day, and Chrissy 546 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 3: is often there watching her husband on the line with 547 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: his best friend. 548 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 11: The two of them when they're on the phone, what 549 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 11: I've seen is that Kevin spends a lot of time 550 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 11: supporting him and encouraging him. 551 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: Dust Burger, what's going on? 552 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 11: Brow And we got this and we got this. It's 553 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 11: all about hope, hope, hope for each other. 554 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 10: Well, I'm doing good, I reckon all things considered. 555 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 11: One thing that's missing, I think is because they have 556 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 11: thirty minutes it's recorded, they don't have the opportunity to 557 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 11: share their deep, deep stuff that's missing. And I think 558 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 11: that's where there's still this credible gratitude for what they have, 559 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 11: but this intense longing that they are missing that they 560 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 11: they uh, they cover up with the the support and 561 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,479 Speaker 11: the hope and and the silliness and that here's what's 562 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 11: going on. 563 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 10: They're taking Showers's two feet in front, screaming bigger and your. 564 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: Why you're looking at it? 565 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 10: That's my response. 566 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 9: You have one. 567 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 10: Kind of hate that woman. 568 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 11: As soon as the phone clicks off his head, goes 569 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 11: down every time. 570 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 10: Every time, you keep your head up and keep doing 571 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 10: what you're doing. 572 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 3: Brother, I love you, Thank you for using global telling. 573 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 11: So it's a good thing when they talk to each other, 574 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 11: but also very very painful. And I would imagine that 575 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 11: what happened to Kevin too, that he hangs up and 576 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 11: I'm and he hangs up the phone and has to 577 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 11: turn around and face here it is again. 578 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 3: We will be following the new developments Kevin Herrick's case 579 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 3: as this investigation continues to unfold. Stay tuned for more 580 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 3: to come. Meanwhile, if you'd like to learn more about 581 00:35:30,400 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 3: his case, please visit Kevinisnext dot com