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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. They

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Speaker 1: called me Ben. We are joined with our super producer,

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Speaker 1: Mr Paul Act now decand and of course you are

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Speaker 1: you friends and neighbors, and that makes this stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt. This,

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Speaker 1: this is something that's been on our mutual minds for

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Speaker 1: some time. Is that correct? Yeah. I've always wanted to,

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Speaker 1: you know, start my own business, really get out there

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Speaker 1: and just be my own boss. Yeah. Yeah, to bid

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Speaker 1: a due to the endless drudgery of working for some

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Speaker 1: other schmow or a company and become finally the captain

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Speaker 1: of your own fate, the master of your own soul

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Speaker 1: too paraphrase Invictus, which is a great poem, it really is.

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Speaker 1: So in in light of that, let's um, let's see,

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Speaker 1: I think somebody has an offer for us. So let's

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Speaker 1: let's cut to him and let's see what he's got

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Speaker 1: to say. Shout, come on, man, the dreams you told

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Speaker 1: me about. We can actually do them. Now, we don't

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Speaker 1: have to wait. Man, it worked, and I'm doing it,

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Speaker 1: and I want to help you do it because it's

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Speaker 1: so good. This is amazing. We can we can have

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Speaker 1: vacations and sailboats, and we can have modible homes, and

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Speaker 1: you can give your wife the jewelry that she deserves.

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Speaker 1: Then you're gonna be a hero. Come on, now, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. Get up, down, get up before it's to

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Speaker 1: let get up. Wow, Joe is getting the hard sell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he really is. Um. The part you can't see from

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Speaker 1: that is that this man is on stage in front

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Speaker 1: of hundreds of people, maybe a thousand people, and he's

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Speaker 1: yelling at a tombstone of this gentleman, a tombstone that

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Speaker 1: reads Joe nobody poorn in what something like that. So

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Speaker 1: the voice you just heard is the one of the

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Speaker 1: spokespeople for what's called a m l M or multi

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Speaker 1: level marketing based company, a direct sales company, and in

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Speaker 1: his performance, which is quite theatrical, he is gesticulating wildly

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Speaker 1: in front of this styrofoam tombstone and begging this tombstone

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Speaker 1: or the implied uh dead worthless person beneath it, to

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Speaker 1: rise up through the power of multi level marketing and

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Speaker 1: discover his dreams. He named several things boats, multiple homes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the jewelry your spouse or loved one could ever want, right,

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Speaker 1: because of course every spouse to find six us through jewelry,

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Speaker 1: of course. But before we get to too critical, we

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Speaker 1: we played this clip which which I think we we

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Speaker 1: all thoroughly enjoyed, and we ask you if you have

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Speaker 1: time to, you can check it out on YouTube. I

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Speaker 1: think it's been featured in a number of places, one

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Speaker 1: of which was last week Tonight. Yes, last week Tonight

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Speaker 1: with John Oliver. There's an entire thirty five minute episode

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Speaker 1: or thirty one minute episode, however long it was, on

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Speaker 1: this topic in particular, right because it's a gigantic industry,

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Speaker 1: and today we're going to learn just how enormous this

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Speaker 1: industry is, how much of it is transparent, how much

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Speaker 1: of it is hidden from the public, from the civilians

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Speaker 1: as well as from the adherents. Dare I say, the

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Speaker 1: disciples or the recruits of these organizations. And the best

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Speaker 1: way to start off is, of course, with the American Dream.

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Speaker 1: But this guy is doing when he's yelling at Joe,

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Speaker 1: nobody is tapping into this concept that's familiar to anyone

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Speaker 1: across the planet. You don't have to be one of

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Speaker 1: our listeners based in the US to realize this. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody recognizes the idea two point five kids, a

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Speaker 1: summer home, and then you know a non summer home,

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Speaker 1: a boat, uh, and your own businesses and a Mercedes

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Speaker 1: of course, uh, an extra slow Mercedes because you don't

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Speaker 1: have to hurry, right, not at all. So this is

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Speaker 1: an enormously appealing, if intimidating opportunity, the idea of going

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Speaker 1: out there on your own, without a safety net and

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Speaker 1: becoming your own means of income. There are a multitude

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Speaker 1: of various programs, organizations, and institutions in the United States

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Speaker 1: today that claim to assist people in pursuit of this dream. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Some maybe government supported, such as government loan program ms

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Speaker 1: that happen with would be small business owners or even

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Speaker 1: incubators for certain types of companies. There might also be

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Speaker 1: tax breaks, right. Yeah. You can even get nonprofit consultation

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Speaker 1: services or even private companies that will just provide assistance

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Speaker 1: in some other form. Yeah, right, some assistance. So will

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Speaker 1: it will help you out? And today's episode centers on

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Speaker 1: a genre of company in that private sphere. Today's episode

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Speaker 1: is examining one of the more controversial types of phenomena

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Speaker 1: in the world of entrepreneurship, the practice known as multi

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Speaker 1: level marketing. It's got some other names, direct sales. A

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Speaker 1: lot of times comes into it, UM trying to think

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Speaker 1: there's one big one. It's uh, it's like triangle shaped, um,

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Speaker 1: triangle plan, triangle. Yeah, that's a triangle scheme. Is Sasa

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Speaker 1: Lese strategy? Yeah, something something to that effects. Oh, come on, man,

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Speaker 1: people are on the edge of their seats. Are what

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Speaker 1: are we really talking about, Matt. We're talking about currently

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Speaker 1: legally functioning pyramid schemes, It's true, also sometimes called Ponzi schemes.

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Speaker 1: You might recognize them if you tuned into the television

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Speaker 1: or the radio during the Made Off scandal. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: may recognize various forms of con jobs that have existed

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Speaker 1: in the past, in recent history and in older history.

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Speaker 1: And you may wonder, what's what's the difference between these

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Speaker 1: multi level marketing things and these pyramid schemes? Are they

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Speaker 1: all the same? To answer that question, first, we have

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Speaker 1: to ask ourselves what multi level marketing or m l M.

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Speaker 1: So that Matt and I don't kill ourselves trying to

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Speaker 1: always pronounce that tricky phrase. We have to ask what

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Speaker 1: these things are, how do we define them? So here

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Speaker 1: are the facts. Yeah, So, a multi level marketing company

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Speaker 1: or an entity that functions in that way. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really a general term, and it describes the strategies for

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Speaker 1: marketing that these companies use, and they use these non

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Speaker 1: salaried human beings. Their their workforce is all nonsalaried, and

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Speaker 1: they sell a product or service whatever the company is

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Speaker 1: pedaling while the earnings of the participants are derived from

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Speaker 1: a commission system that like, most of the money that

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Speaker 1: the people working for the company are not drive from

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Speaker 1: the sales, they're drived from the commission that you get

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Speaker 1: from the sales. Yeah. Yeah, this is where you hear

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Speaker 1: the allegations that's something that's a pyramid scheme. So specifically,

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Speaker 1: a direct sale company might use this strategy to encourage

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Speaker 1: existing distributors to recruit new distributors into this network, into

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Speaker 1: this hierarchy, just like you had established, Matt. So let's say,

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Speaker 1: let's let's read the room. We're gonna throw a look

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Speaker 1: over at Paul. Paul, may we use you as an

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Speaker 1: example in this hypothetical. Okay, he's he's noding a little bit,

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Speaker 1: just barely. Yep, there it is. Okay, he's he's so

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Speaker 1: tired of these reindeer cakes. Alright, So let's say Paul

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Speaker 1: act now decand is an existing distributor for we can

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Speaker 1: make up any company. How about vintage jelly beans? Yes, there,

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Speaker 1: aged vintage jelly beans. Are you tired of new jelly yeah?

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Speaker 1: These are the these are the ones you remember. So

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Speaker 1: let's say that Paul is pitched on this idea of

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Speaker 1: joining the Vintage Jelly Bean LLC or whatever it calls itself.

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Speaker 1: So we can buy product then from vintage jelly beans

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Speaker 1: from their factory and sell these jelly beans to our

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Speaker 1: hearts content. Paul can do that, and he can make

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Speaker 1: a profit of some sort based on the volume of sales. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so how much he sale, how much he sells, he

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Speaker 1: gets an like a little piece, right, he gets a bean.

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Speaker 1: And Paul is also told that he doesn't just have

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Speaker 1: to sell jelly beans. He can make additional income and

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Speaker 1: possibly quite a bit, by recruiting his friends, his family members,

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Speaker 1: his coworkers, and anyone else he can find, making them

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Speaker 1: distributors of jelly beans as well. So they do the

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Speaker 1: same thing that Paul is doing, but in the sense

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Speaker 1: they work for him because in addition to the small

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Speaker 1: cut of every bean sale that he makes, he also

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Speaker 1: gets a cut of every jelly bean sale that his

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Speaker 1: people make. WHOA okay, so that okay, So that means

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Speaker 1: the people, as you're going down, if distributors are getting

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Speaker 1: money and getting money and getting money and getting money

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Speaker 1: on the way up that Oh, this is already feeling

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Speaker 1: like a pyramid scheme. Guys, I don't know, because if

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Speaker 1: Paul recruits us in this story, then he stands to

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Speaker 1: make more money than us, for sure. Yeah. But then

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Speaker 1: we recruit somebody and we get a little bit of

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Speaker 1: their peace. But then Paul still gets a piece of

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Speaker 1: our piece. Yeah, yep, And so it does, it does

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Speaker 1: go up. You are right about the cognitive geometry, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that's called a down line, right down, the down line,

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Speaker 1: not the down low, the down line. And the incentive

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Speaker 1: here is that once you or Paul or anyone has

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Speaker 1: the new recruits hooked and working to sell these beans,

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Speaker 1: you are making money not just off them, but off

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Speaker 1: of everybody they recruit. As each of the distributors. Under

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Speaker 1: you recruit more people under them, you get a percentage

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Speaker 1: of those people's sales as well. And as those people

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Speaker 1: recruit new people, you get Do you see how this is?

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Speaker 1: This is exponentially growing. Oh yeah, the the exponential growth

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Speaker 1: is pretty apparent, and it feels like it could be

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of cash coming into me if I'm

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Speaker 1: at the top, or at least if I start in

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Speaker 1: somewhere and get enough people below me. And let's pause

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Speaker 1: here just for a second. I I wanted to ask

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Speaker 1: you this on air, Matt. Have you ever been approached

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Speaker 1: by something some entity like this or do you know

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Speaker 1: someone who has? I would say most people, and this

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Speaker 1: is conjecture, but I would say most people who are

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Speaker 1: on Facebook probably have at least one friend that has

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Speaker 1: maybe either approached you or is consistently putting out feelers

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Speaker 1: to be like anybody anyone? Oh wow, Paul's nodding too.

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Speaker 1: I got this essential oil. You gotta get this essential oil.

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Speaker 1: Work from home, change your life? Are you? Are you

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Speaker 1: an active parent on the go and you don't have

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Speaker 1: time to be locked down in a nine to five?

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Speaker 1: Check out my Mary Kay products St. John's wort. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean various supplements. So you have seen

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Speaker 1: it on Facebook that and uh, I have the dubious

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Speaker 1: benefit of at times in my college days being approached

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Speaker 1: by people with a shore fire idea. And the weird

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Speaker 1: thing was these would be people at career fairs, so

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Speaker 1: they would be they would have you know, they would

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Speaker 1: have a table or a booth right next to say

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Speaker 1: Coca Cola or something like that. There's an amway except right,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not I don't know for sure whether that

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Speaker 1: continues in the modern day on college campuses, but I

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Speaker 1: know we would like to hear from you listeners right

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Speaker 1: in a conspiracy at how stuff works dot com and

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Speaker 1: let us know if you have had direct experience with

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Speaker 1: these organizations. Wait a minute, is that how how stuff works?

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Speaker 1: Is that how you got picked up? Because the whole

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Speaker 1: thing here is that if you come on and you

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Speaker 1: start a podcast, then you get three other people to

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Speaker 1: start podcasts, and then you get That's how it works here,

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Speaker 1: right for our down line? Right? Yeah, yeah, thankfully that

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Speaker 1: is not the case so far as you're maybe we're

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Speaker 1: not far enough up in the pyramid though. Imagine, just

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Speaker 1: like the Dark Tower, what if there's a room at

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Speaker 1: the very top. We've got to climb this upline. We

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Speaker 1: have to climb this upline. Man, We've got to convert people,

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Speaker 1: proselytize and have them convert people, and then have those

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Speaker 1: people convert people. What could go wrong? Yeah, there's definitely

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Speaker 1: stuff they could go wrong, and we'll hear about it

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Speaker 1: right after a quick word from our sponsor. Here's where

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Speaker 1: it gets crazy. So much stuff can go wrong, plenty

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Speaker 1: of stuff. A cartoonish amount of stuff can and does

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Speaker 1: go wrong. So much so, in fact, that things going

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Speaker 1: wrong becomes more of the rule than the exception in

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Speaker 1: this industry, despite what its advocates may want you to believe. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's very very important. We are not saying that all

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Speaker 1: of these things are bad. Multi Level marketing itself is

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Speaker 1: a strategy employed by a company, right yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: really is marketing. I mean it's in the name multi

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Speaker 1: level marketing. You're marketing your product by getting people to

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Speaker 1: talk about it, mostly on social media. And it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter what you're selling. That's the other thing. It's it's

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Speaker 1: product agnostic. It can be vintage jelly beans, it can

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Speaker 1: be Adidas wind suits, skin care products. Skin care products

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Speaker 1: is by far the most realistic thing on this list

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Speaker 1: at this point. So the place where it gets sticky

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Speaker 1: is the definition between m l A multi level marketing

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Speaker 1: versus what you mentioned earlier, a pyramid scheme, or, as

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Speaker 1: it's been known in pejorative terms, a Ponzi scheme. So

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Speaker 1: m l M multi level marketing as a strategy, a

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Speaker 1: technique grit approach, is not, in and of itself inherently illegal.

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Speaker 1: In fact, there are some companies that practice strategies like

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Speaker 1: this that juqua well and are fairly reputable. Tupperware for instance, Right,

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Speaker 1: they sell they tend to sell products through parties. Invite

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Speaker 1: somebody over for a Tupperware party. Very American thing, right.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anyone who has gone to a Tupperware party,

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Speaker 1: but I'm reasonably certainly exist. Yeah, they do exist. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that show F is for Family? I have

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Speaker 1: the Bill Burr Show. There's a whole this is just

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Speaker 1: my I'm channeling NOL for this. There's a there's a

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Speaker 1: whole side story where um, the main character spouse joins

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Speaker 1: a group like that that sells tupperware specifically, and it's

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Speaker 1: this way in her garage is just filled with tupperware. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned garages. Oh we have, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we have to get to that. So this strategy, while

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Speaker 1: not inherently illegal or dishonest, becomes disingenuous at the very

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Speaker 1: least when new recruits are promised scads of money only

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Speaker 1: to find that there are hidden expenses that they are

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Speaker 1: required to buy in as an investor, for instance, or

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Speaker 1: that they are required to purchase x amount of these

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Speaker 1: products these jelly beans, skincare products, health supplements, what was

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Speaker 1: Adidas track suits? When suits whatever? And then they're also

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Speaker 1: extremely convoluted rules about what you have to do in

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Speaker 1: order to get the money that you're allocated from all

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Speaker 1: your other you know people, your down line or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's it gets pretty crazy and it goes case by case. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is purposefully up to well, maybe it's maybe it

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Speaker 1: is unfair. Maybe we are using a broad brush to

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Speaker 1: paint these things. Maybe the people who have built these

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Speaker 1: very elaborate rules for the distribution of money or products

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Speaker 1: on the down line or the upline, maybe they feel

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Speaker 1: that they have sound the most efficient and most transparent

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Speaker 1: way and perhaps the most fair way to distribute the money.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that is clearly not true. In every case,

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Speaker 1: but maybe you have to give people the benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt, right. So an additional issue with this is

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Speaker 1: that let's say you're required to buy a hundred pounds

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Speaker 1: vintage jelly beans, or you know, X amount of cases

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Speaker 1: cases h x amount of cases of a miracle water

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Speaker 1: or a skin rejuvenator wrinkle remover. What you may find

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Speaker 1: is that the price you have to buy it at

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Speaker 1: is going to be higher than it would have been

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Speaker 1: if you went and bought X amount of cases at

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Speaker 1: Target or at a supermarket. Right, and it may not

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Speaker 1: be available in stores. That's another big thing. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of proprietary branding. But then additionally, you might find

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Speaker 1: doubt these products are not what they're cracked up to be.

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Speaker 1: They they're not quality, they break, or the health claims,

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Speaker 1: if they exist, are wildly optimistic and not research, not

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Speaker 1: proven by anything other than long anecdotes. The Better Business

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Speaker 1: Bureau describes several red flags that you may find when

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Speaker 1: you initially begin conversations with one of these entities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the first one should be a red flag for anyone

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Speaker 1: at any time, and that's anytime someone is promising you, yes,

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Speaker 1: you high earnings, especially without having to do much at all,

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Speaker 1: just very little effort, very little time spent, or any

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Speaker 1: real serious commitment money wise or other. The money just

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Speaker 1: makes itself. It just rules it. Yeah, I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: why do you think I do this? You did the

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Speaker 1: majority of the work you needed to do when you

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Speaker 1: took this leap of faith, when you recognize this opperat tunity, Ben,

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Speaker 1: have you ever thought about you could I think you

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Speaker 1: could recruit a lot of people. I think that I

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Speaker 1: think that you and Paul and Nolan could all do

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Speaker 1: an equally good job. What if we work together? This

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Speaker 1: is dangerous territory. This is dangerous territory, especially because, as

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Speaker 1: people will find out, we are ourselves already involved in

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Speaker 1: a type of m l M. But it's not, it's not.

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Speaker 1: So let's get to the second thing. So the second

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Speaker 1: thing is where you're gonna do this. You're gonna make

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Speaker 1: money super easy. You're not gonna have to do much.

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Speaker 1: But the one thing you do have to do. You know,

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Speaker 1: it takes money to make money. You gotta purchase a

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Speaker 1: whole hell of a lot of inventory, a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: You gotta buy it. That's just how you get started.

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Speaker 1: You gotta have that in your possession, so you can

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Speaker 1: sell all the stuff and got a prime. The pump

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Speaker 1: can't sell what you don't have, right. Oh yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we're also here's the thing. Look, you're you're doing the

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Speaker 1: you're gonna make all this money. The one thing we

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Speaker 1: can't do is guarantee that will buy back any unsold

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Speaker 1: products that you have. Okay, we're just gonna you know, well,

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Speaker 1: we might buy it back for like a percentage of

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Speaker 1: what you bought it for if we have to, like

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Speaker 1: a restocking fee. Sure, but we're you know, we can't

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Speaker 1: just we have faith in you as a distributor and

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Speaker 1: we we don't think we need to worry about it.

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Speaker 1: We also don't take checks. That's going to be another

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Speaker 1: red flag. The money you're required to uh invest that's

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Speaker 1: the term we like to use just to get started. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that money must be paid in cash or a wire

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Speaker 1: transfer or a money order. Those are three red flags

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Speaker 1: when yeah, when you see them waving. The consensus from

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Speaker 1: most financial experts is to run, to leave, to remove

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Speaker 1: yourself from the situation. And you would you know, it's

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Speaker 1: easy for us now, all of us, all of us

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Speaker 1: listening today and for us exploring this in the safety

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Speaker 1: of a yeah, and the same they have headphones in

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Speaker 1: our Swell podcast studio. It's easy for us to say, well,

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Speaker 1: I would immediately leave. I don't fall for that sort

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Speaker 1: of flim flam, right, But as we will learn, there

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Speaker 1: are tried and true techniques that are used to make

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Speaker 1: people feel obligated through some sort of uh psychological manipulation

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Speaker 1: to buy into these things. It's similar to the way

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Speaker 1: that somebody might win a vacation. I know, I Matt Paul,

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Speaker 1: I know you guys have both probably received those mailers

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Speaker 1: that say, oh, it's a chance to win a vacation. Dude, No,

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Speaker 1: you already want to cruise. That's what it is. You've

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Speaker 1: already won. All you have to do is travel thet

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Speaker 1: Boco Braton or something like that. And what you what

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Speaker 1: happens is that you arrive at these places only to

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Speaker 1: find that I did win the cruise. But first we

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Speaker 1: want to give you a tour of these condos. Ye,

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Speaker 1: And you know, in the market today, real estate is

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Speaker 1: the best investment. It really is. And can you imagine

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Speaker 1: look here at the Windham Resort in Boca Raton. I've

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Speaker 1: actually been on one of those recently. Yep, A cruise

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Speaker 1: or one of those switch try to see if I

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Speaker 1: can do this the right way. Um, some family members

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Speaker 1: that I was with on a small vacation. I saw

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Speaker 1: that there was at this mall an opportunity to have

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Speaker 1: dinner paid for for our entire family. All we had

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Speaker 1: to do is take a trip over to this condo

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Speaker 1: and hang out for a while. Answer some questions, talk

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Speaker 1: to some people, watch some videos. We did it. We

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Speaker 1: had to like sit for a long time with somebody,

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Speaker 1: and they split us up into groups, into uh, like

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Speaker 1: husband and wife groups and like my wife and I

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Speaker 1: just had to calmly say, no, we we really don't

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Speaker 1: think we can afford it right now. Oh but what

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Speaker 1: if you know, we could give you this platinum package

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Speaker 1: and I'm sorry we can't. Oh but well the double

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Speaker 1: platinum I think you can really afford and it's an

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Speaker 1: investment for your future. And it went on and on

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Speaker 1: and on until we finally got to leave with our

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Speaker 1: visa check card. Oh wow, so did you ultimately get aid?

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Speaker 1: We got dinner, but it was like two hours out

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Speaker 1: of our day. And if you calculate the money for

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Speaker 1: all of that, you go, wait a second, are you

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Speaker 1: sure we should have done. This guy's like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: do this all the time, and they all said no, No,

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Speaker 1: they loved it because they some members of my family

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Speaker 1: do that kind of thing a lot. Okay, I've never

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Speaker 1: heard this story. Kudos to you for resisting the psychological

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Speaker 1: pressure that might apply. Right, Well, I mean, how are

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Speaker 1: they going to apply pressure if there's no money in

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Speaker 1: my accounts? That now I'm picturing the internet meme where

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Speaker 1: the guys leaning in and touching his temple with his

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Speaker 1: pointer figure. So it's true. What what can happen is

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Speaker 1: that maybe you were invited to a seminar for an

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Speaker 1: MLM and you hear these very theatrical, very motivational speeches, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's difficult to leave. It's sort of like standing

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Speaker 1: up in the middle of church if you're religious and

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Speaker 1: walking up the social pressure alone. Yeah, it's not a

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Speaker 1: good look, right, and this becomes doubly powerful at the

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Speaker 1: very least when you are there with a family member

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Speaker 1: who is already active in this organization. You don't, I mean,

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Speaker 1: who wants to disappoint Aunt Linda or uncle Greg? Right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your mother in law? Oh man, that air I gotta

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Speaker 1: follow up on this. Uh So, another thing you find

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Speaker 1: is that this all means, in the case of multi

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Speaker 1: level marketing or pyramid schemes, that initial recruits are essentially

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Speaker 1: paying an organization for the opportunity to work for them.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's sit in that just for a second, or

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Speaker 1: think about it, everyone listening. Imagine your last job interview.

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Speaker 1: Let's see, went to the job interview and you're already

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Speaker 1: submitted your resume or something online. The management of the

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Speaker 1: company sits down with you and they say you're qualified.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, you're not only qualified, you

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Speaker 1: are superb. You were the perfect person for this position,

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Speaker 1: and for seven hundred dollars, you can start today. And

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody's initial assumption would be, oh, holy smokes,

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Speaker 1: you're giving me seven dollars to start today. But no, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no, no, no, no no, you are paying

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Speaker 1: this organization some amount of money in any other place

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Speaker 1: or time or organization or job opportunity, that would be

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Speaker 1: just ludicrous, that would be absolutely not I'm out of here, right,

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Speaker 1: And a multi level marketing strategy becomes an out and

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Speaker 1: out pyramid scheme when the bulk of the actual profit

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Speaker 1: you make comes not from selling your jelly beans. The

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Speaker 1: bulk of it comes from converting other people in your

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Speaker 1: social network to work for you, with the same carrot

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Speaker 1: extending for them that they have to actively recruit other people.

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Speaker 1: This business model has several deeply disturbing aspects. And first

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Speaker 1: there's that inherent bait and switch. You're not selling an

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Speaker 1: herbal supplement, and those are very common in the world

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Speaker 1: of multi level marketing. You're selling your friends, the idea

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Speaker 1: of them selling their friends on selling yet more friends.

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Speaker 1: You're selling a borderline and arguably exploitative type of munic ability. Right,

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Speaker 1: so we should pause to Matt and talk about herbal supplements. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just for a little bit. Now, I know this is

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Speaker 1: controversial territory in many cases, and again, we don't want

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Speaker 1: to paint with a broad brush. We don't want to

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Speaker 1: paint with the wrong broad brush, which we'll get to.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's a common type or genre of product

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Speaker 1: in the world of multi level marketing. An herbal supplement

426
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: could mean anything from vitamin B twelve to a proprietary

427
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: mix of vitamins, to things that are supposed to help

428
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: certain medical conditions. These are not held to These claims.

429
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: Herbal supplement claims are not held to the same level

430
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: of rigor and research that out and out drugs are

431
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: held to by the f D a absolute at least

432
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: in theory the FDA is supposed to do that. We

433
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: have an episode about the opium epidemic coming up as well.

434
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: God alright, yeah, But so with an herbal supplement, the

435
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: legal restrictions on what you can and cannot claim about

436
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: any given thing, any pill or juice or paste, what

437
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: have you, Those legal restrictions are much looser, you know,

438
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 1: and you can you can have people come up and

439
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: say all sorts of anecdotes all the livelong day about

440
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: how it changed their life. But what they probably won't have,

441
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: what they're much less likely to have, is a peer reviewed,

442
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: reproducible study proving what they said is true. Absolutely. I've

443
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: recently watched one where a person said this specific herbal

444
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: supplement helped her to become pregnant when all these other

445
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: ways did not. She kept trying to get party about

446
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: this herbal suff element. Healter get there. This one person

447
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: was recovering from a cancer because of this herbal supplement.

448
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: And that's when you get into that territory of like,

449
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: how dangerous is this to allow this kind of thing

450
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: to occur. But you know, the rules are the rules,

451
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: and in a way they're following them. Yeah, as the

452
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: letter of the law, if not the spirit. Right. Often,

453
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: the hidden fees and the required by ends of these

454
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: various products put already financially disadvantaged people into some in

455
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: some cases, life ruining debt, not to mention the emotional

456
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: trauma might experience of discovering that your friend either purposely

457
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: deceived you or has misled both of you. You know

458
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: that's a painful thing. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the

459
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: biggest problems we see here with all of these people

460
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: trying to recruit everyone else to get into this thing,

461
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: whether they get hurt in it or not, is that

462
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: you run up on a math problem. Yes, that is true,

463
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: and you don't need a calculator for it. Let's do

464
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: the math. The math comes to us courtesy of a

465
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: fellow named Robert Fitzpatrick, a former business consultant and now

466
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: a prominent opponent of pyramid schemes and multi level marketing strategies,

467
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: which he pretty much equates. He says they're the same thing,

468
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: and it's a false dichotomy, and he explains the unsustainable

469
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: math in pretty simple terms. We have a quote from it.

470
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: The math is a distortion, a manipulation of what they

471
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: call exponential expansion. Exponential expansion is two times two times

472
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: two times two. And almost all of these schemes tell

473
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: you that you can make money by just recruiting three

474
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: or four or five. Let's let's say five. Then you

475
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: let the five do their five, and that gives you

476
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: twenty five. There you go. That's this is out the

477
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: side of the quote right now. Yeah, we've got our

478
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: twenty five people already. Right, let's get back into the

479
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: quote that right there is exponential expansion. That's the trick

480
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: of the whole thing. What they don't show you is

481
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: that you can only do that thirteen cycles, and and

482
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: then after that, he says, you would exceed the population

483
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: of the earth. So thirteen iterations of this sort of growth, well,

484
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: eventually reach a point of saturation such that there are

485
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: no living people who are not part of this scheme. Yes,

486
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: and most of them will be on the most bottom level,

487
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: right right, still required to buy in, depending on the

488
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: specific case, still required to purchase a product or make

489
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: some sort of initial investment. But at that point they

490
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: literally have no one to sell any of it. Too,

491
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: because everyone has a garage full of whatever it is.

492
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: In the most fundamental terms, this means that the business

493
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: model as it is explained to new recruits is not

494
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: meant to work. It literally cannot if everything goes well

495
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: and every single member of this thing, or even if

496
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: you know what, honestly, even if sixty of the people

497
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: who are who are entering this sort of this sort

498
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: of business, even even if sixty of them succeed, then

499
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: it still won't work over the long term. Additionally, there

500
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: are several other important points that new recruits are not told.

501
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: First is that, according to Fitzpatrick, uh something around the

502
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: order of at least more than investors or distributors don't

503
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: turn a profit full stop at all. I just won't

504
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: just won't happen. And additionally, there's no recognization that something

505
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: will go wrong, that the market will saturate, that it

506
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: will not forever grow unbound. And that's kind of the

507
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: problem we have with our economy in general, isn't it. Yeah, Arguably,

508
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: depending on which economic model we're talking about, just exponential

509
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: constant growth, nothing will ever stop. The factories must expand

510
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: you know what, let's start a planet Hollywood on Mars

511
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: Oh can we I don't know, I haven't. They're gonna

512
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: need one eventually, They're done. Every every planet will need

513
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 1: a planet Hollywood eventually, and it'll be all like Mars

514
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: based celebrities, right, and think of the food puns. Oh yeah,

515
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: we gotta get Jonathan on just to drop in some

516
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: food puns. That's Jonathan Strickland, the host of tech Stuff

517
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: and several other fascinating shows. He is also as an

518
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: active charity volunteer to be our complaint department. If ever

519
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: you feel that there's something that needs to be corrected

520
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: on the show, or if you have a complaint, please

521
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: do not hesitate right to Jonathan Dott Strickland at how

522
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. But you know, joking aside, this

523
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: shows us, uh, this shows us a little something about

524
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: the potential size of the problem. But what's the actual size? Well,

525
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: it's big and we're gonna get into it. After a

526
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: word from our completely not multi level marketing sponsor. Why

527
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: you that I can't help? But notice that japainting with

528
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: us skimpy brush, Well, this is the only brush I had.

529
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: I've got to do the fence and then the wall,

530
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: and I just have so much to do. Don't waste

531
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: time like I'm in macaroon rotting on this one. My friend,

532
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: what you need is a better brush. I'll bigger brush,

533
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: I'll broad up brush. A broader brush really would get

534
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: this done faster and I could just paint the whole

535
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: thing in one go. Maybe why simply buy broad brushes

536
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: when you can sell them? Why simply sell them when

537
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: you can have your friends, neighbors, loved ones, and naive

538
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: strange is on the streets sell the broadest of brushes

539
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: for you. This sounds like a plan. What do I

540
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: need to do? Why You've already done the most important part,

541
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: which has opened your eyes to a new world of

542
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: economic opportunity. Your next steps are relatively small, easily handled,

543
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: and we can take care of them today. Oh we'll

544
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 1: need is a slight seed money investment. And of course

545
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: you can't sell what you don't have, So with a

546
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: minimum purchase of sixty eight broad brushes, you will be

547
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: set to go. My friend, Okay, I guess you know

548
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: I've been meaning to sell my home, so I could

549
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: do that. I'm not sure where I'll put the broad

550
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: brushes are They probably need a lot of space, don't they?

551
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: Um all right, Well, I guess let me go ahead

552
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: and sell my house and then I'll get back to you.

553
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: I guess no, no, no, listen, this is a tremendous

554
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: chance to change the course of your life and the

555
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: life of all your loved ones forever. All you need

556
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,479
Speaker 1: to do is imagine yourself ten years from now. Would

557
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: you rather be living in a sumptuous, opulent mansion or

558
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: will you be a wash and mounting final notice bills,

559
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: rotting in this dump, lamenting the chance you could have

560
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: taken to save your own life. I guess I'll take

561
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: the mansion. This message for broad Brushes International has been

562
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: brought to you by Illumination Global Unlimited, and we're back. Uh.

563
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: You know what, Matt, that last ad felt a little

564
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: bit I don't want to go out on a limb here.

565
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: That last ad felt a little bit like a a

566
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: multi level marketing thing. It was kind of pushy. I

567
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: noticed that in the end, the one guy really seemed

568
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: to want the other guy to do whatever you had

569
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: to do to sell those things. It's really you know,

570
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: it's eerily in line with what we're talking about, but

571
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: sometimes those strange coincidence has happened. I still have issues

572
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: with the size of the brushes the way they were described,

573
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand. I feel like that's more industrial

574
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: strength brush situation. I'm not sure I did appreciate how

575
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: the other guy in the ad did ask how he

576
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: would possibly wield these. But you know, let us let

577
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: us know if you have experience with broad brushes, or

578
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: of course our returning sponsor, Illumination Global Unlimited, just let

579
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: us know how those how this product shake out, because look,

580
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: we're not gonna knock a brush a broad brush if

581
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: it works, right, Yeah, absolutely, Speaking of broad and expansive things,

582
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: what's the size of the problem when we're talking about

583
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: multi level marketing? Well, let's go back to Mr Fitzpatrick.

584
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: He has a book called False Prophets, Seeking Financial and

585
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: Spiritual Deliverance in Multi Level Marketing and Pyramid Schemes, And

586
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: in this book he speculates that the just the size,

587
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: the full scope of these various companies that make up

588
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 1: this industry of multi level marketing is currently unknown. They're

589
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: they're essentially there are so many functioning right now that

590
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: it may be impossible to know. And those entities certainly

591
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't want you to know the full nature of their

592
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: financial transactions or their techniques. So, according to Fitzpatrick, this

593
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: goes back into just the sheer amount of money that

594
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: is involved. So in this quotation, he says made Off

595
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: Bernie made Off Conde a relatively small number of people

596
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: with investment money. Multi level marketing, he argues, is using

597
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: a different system. Instead of taking a million dollars from

598
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: ten people, you take ten dollars from a million people.

599
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: That is the way this system works. I'm just using

600
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: that as an analogy. But the numbers add up to

601
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: staggering amounts year upon year upon year. This leads Fitzpatrick

602
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: and other experts to believe the amount of money involved

603
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: in this industry overall ranks and the billions with a

604
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: b wow. And and here's the thing there are it's

605
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: not just the problem of setting up something like this

606
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: that ultimately benefits, you know, the person that started it,

607
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: Like at that, in all of these there's some group

608
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: or person at the very top that gets all of

609
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: the down line. Every single person sends money up to

610
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: that one person right, the founder, right right right, And

611
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 1: and in some cases there are allegations of these people

612
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 1: taking advantage just fully and knowingly taking advantage of everyone

613
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: working for them, so not making an honest mistake, not

614
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: not getting the accounting wrong, or uh, acting out of negligence. Yeah. Unfortunately,

615
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: there are numerous multiple cases in which founders are members

616
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: of these types of companies have been found guilty of fraud,

617
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: of conspiracy to commit various financial crimes, and more. For instance,

618
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: there was a guy named Paul Burke's here in the

619
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: US who was convicted of conspiracy and fraud during his

620
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: time heading up a company called Zeke Rewards, and in

621
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: the course of his trial it was characterized as one

622
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: of the largest Ponzi schemes in US history, bilking more

623
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: than one million investors across the world out of eight

624
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars. Later that amounted to be about nine

625
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: million dollars. He was sentenced to around fifteen years in jail,

626
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: and he got off relatively easy because going into trial

627
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: his penalty could have been as much as sixty five

628
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: years in jail, and he's an older man, so fifteen

629
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,399
Speaker 1: years even maybe a death sentence. But what they did

630
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: essentially was old school Ponzi schemes stuff. They made extravagant

631
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: promises and they got people to invest money with the

632
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 1: with the assumption that that money would later be paid

633
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: off as these as these schemes, this penny auction site

634
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: began to deliver the mail, deliver the goods, and for

635
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: a while, for the earlier investors, it seemed like this

636
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 1: was happening because of what they were doing is they

637
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: were taking the money that later investors put in and

638
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: using that to pay off their old investors. So it

639
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: just kept growing, passing the buck, passing the buck, and

640
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: then eventually it created under its own numerical success, not financial,

641
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: but just the sheer amount of people who bought in Dan.

642
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: So that was Zeke rewards. Zeke rewards. All right, I

643
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: need Yeah, that's the whole thing. I'm just gonna go

644
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole later. Thanks Ben, thank you. So

645
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: what what next? What's another example? Oh, another huge issue

646
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: that some of these founders have come into is tax evasion,

647
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: and that's specifically when these multi level marketing companies expand

648
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: into various countries. So like you're not just starting out

649
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: in the US or wherever else, Malaysia, maybe Australia. Now

650
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: you're in all of these countries and all these people

651
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: are paying money to you, but you're in one location

652
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: and now you've got a whole lot of taxes you've

653
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: gotta pay. And uh, this this one couple, Thomas E.

654
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: Mower and his former wife Leslie D. Mower, they founded

655
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 1: a company in what Springville I believe it was called

656
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 1: New Ways or Knee Ways an E W A Y S.

657
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, they didn't pay personal income tax h

658
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: to the tune of about three point two million dollars.

659
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: And it's it's money that they owed for their companies

660
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 1: for this new as company um in several in several

661
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: countries Malaysia, Australia, and in the United States. I mean,

662
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: that's that isn't necessarily a big problem specifically for multi

663
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: level marketing companies, like not paying taxes. That's just something

664
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: that this couple decided to do, right, That is not

665
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: a necessarily multi level marketing only crime. And we can

666
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: provide more examples you very well. Uh, fellow conspiracy realists

667
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: may have some examples of your own that that you remember,

668
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: and a simple cursory search online will turn up dozens

669
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of things like this. But let's

670
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: you know, we we should also mention that the inner

671
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: workings of these organizations can also get very weird. We

672
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the psychological manipulation involved in

673
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: making people feel obligated to do something, which is not

674
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: restricted to time shares or am Way or anything like that.

675
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: A lot of advertising is built on the idea that

676
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: it is possible to make people feel obligated to do

677
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: something that they have to do it right. Not your

678
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: life will be better, but your life depends on it. It

679
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: It depends on this. Yeah, and we did a video

680
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: that you and I were thinking about off air as

681
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: we were working on this episode. We did a video

682
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: that had some eerie parallels. It's our old YouTube video

683
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: about the techniques that colts use. So there's isolation, there

684
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: are long speeches and you're forced to listen to There's

685
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: a lot of jargon, right, A specific type of lexicon

686
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: terminology arises such that only you can talk about this

687
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: with other people that know what you're talking about, or

688
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: else it's just gobbledegook coming out of your mouth. You

689
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: can find this, for instance, in the ranks or the

690
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: names that are given to levels. Right. There may be

691
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 1: there may be a high archy of sales or position

692
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: in the pyramid that is described by any number of

693
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: imaginative phrases. Uh. Specifically, I think we're both thinking of

694
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: a company called Youngevity, Yes, that has levels based on

695
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: precious stones. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. But some of the

696
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: other ones are even more abstract and strange than that,

697
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: and you you just kind of gotta look through them.

698
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: There was one in that John Oliver UH episode that

699
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: we played where this guy is discussing it's it's specifics

700
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: about how you get paid for people on your down

701
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: line and the things the requirements you have to meet

702
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: on your upline, and just just it made my brain

703
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: want to explode. Yeah, it's something along the well, maybe

704
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: saying along the lines as a poor phrase here, but

705
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: it's something to the tune of uh. A vertical series

706
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 1: of dots labeled A two G going down. And then

707
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 1: the guy is attempting to or appears to be attempting

708
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: to helpfully explain how one actually gets cash in your

709
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: pockets or in your wallet or your purse or the

710
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: empty mannai'se jar in your backyard by the body, you know,

711
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: like wherever you store money. What he does is the following.

712
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: He says, Okay, you're a so let's say that B

713
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: buys four thousand points at forty two percent value point levels,

714
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: and that goes that would go up to count as

715
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: your qualified commission, but it's under it's an encumbered line.

716
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: And that's remember you need one thousand unencumbered value points,

717
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: right and uh, this this may again to be completely fair.

718
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: This maybe that specific organization's best good faith attempt to

719
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: simplify the distribution process. It sure does not sound like it.

720
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: It sounds arcane. And that's just one example. Well, yeah,

721
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: and and one of the like we said, one of

722
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: the effects of having something like that, is that you

723
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: have a more insular group, right right, they're outsiders and insiders,

724
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: and just like some some cults, you know it's a

725
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: sensitive word, but just like some cults, you're you may

726
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 1: also be taught that you have a mission beyond a

727
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: financial goal. You have a mission to free people that

728
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: you care about or to save them with this supplement.

729
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 1: They need this. So not only are you helping yourself

730
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: out financially, you are helping these other people out medically.

731
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: You're helping them out by providing them opportunity because you

732
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: care about them. And if they won't join up, then

733
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: there's something wrong with them. What gives what gives? Right,

734
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: So we're being a little dramatic, but there there is

735
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: a lot of truth in those statements. Here are some

736
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: examples of companies currently being accused of functioning as pyramid schemes.

737
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: Amway probably all heard about Amway was big and what

738
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: the eighties, maybe, and my only encounter with it was

739
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: hearing it referenced in comedy, and for a long time

740
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: as a Yeah, for a long time as a kid,

741
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: I think I confused Amway and Amtrak, and I kept wondering,

742
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: why are people making fun of Amtrak for things I

743
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: don't understand? Is Amtrak so broke that the people have

744
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: to also sell like dish detergent? It's been around for

745
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: so long that I honestly don't even know what Amway sells.

746
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: Do they? It's like bath embody stuff, beauty products, oh,

747
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: and nutrition. So this is like activated water. This is

748
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: a shipping company essentially, it's like an Amazon, but it's

749
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: an MLM. Yeah, this is so now. Again, neither of

750
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: us and Paul and Noll also none of us have

751
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: actively participated in this stuff. So it is quite possible

752
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: that there's something to it, you know, that we have missed.

753
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: But these are the facts, These are the legal cases

754
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: we found, and these companies are for their part um.

755
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: They say that they're very transparent with the claims they're

756
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 1: making and they are pretty pretty responsive, you know if

757
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: mass media reaches out to him and stuff, But that

758
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 1: doesn't mean problem still all occur. Next to Amway, another

759
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: really popular or well known UH company employing the strategy

760
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: would be Urban Life. Yes, this is herbal Life the supplements, right,

761
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 1: like Herbal Life almost, but it's about life. In seventeen,

762
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: they were forced by the FTC to pay nearly three

763
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people back some amount of money,

764
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: and the final settlement that they came to was Herbal

765
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: Life had to pay two hundred million dollars and then

766
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: not just pay that fine, which is generally what happens

767
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: with a company. You get your hand slapped, you pay

768
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: a fine, it becomes a cost of business. Well, in

769
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: this case, UH, they had to fundamentally this is a quote,

770
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: fundamentally restructure its business. Right, that's a quote from the

771
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,439
Speaker 1: FTC itself, specifically from Jessica Rich, who at the time

772
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: was the director of the agency's Bureau of Consumer Protection,

773
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: And that sounds like a good thing, and so the

774
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:51,320
Speaker 1: company continues. Uh. The company, for their own parts, said

775
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: that they had not done anything wrong and that they

776
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: didn't need to make any substantial business change. And then

777
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: also some people who said that this company was being

778
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: unfairly targeted from from some other entity or individual who

779
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,720
Speaker 1: had an ax to grind. So you'll hear from both sides.

780
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: Will hear the government side, and you'll hear the company's side,

781
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 1: and those those sides just aren't gonna agree. Yeah, it's

782
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: really it's up to you to decide what what you

783
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: think is the the straight poop, the genuine article. Uh.

784
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: There's also a von that's one of the more famous ones. Right. Uh.

785
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: There's also Youngevity, Yes, Youngevity. One of the companies that

786
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: I was gonna say pedals. They sorry, that's not right.

787
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: They sell products that will help people feel and look younger.

788
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: There there. That's another big theme that occurs in a

789
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: lot of these and in each of these cases, the

790
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: organizations mentioned will typically prefer a different description. They don't

791
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: want to just be called MLM s. They certainly don't

792
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: want to be called pyramid schemes. Who prefer a term

793
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: like direct sales. There's something similar to what you said

794
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: at the top of the show. And you know, Avon

795
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: has been around long enough for the idea of the

796
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: Avon Lady quote unquote to be a cultural trope, you know.

797
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: And that means that on some level people have succeeded

798
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: working with or for Avon. Same thing with Tupperware. So

799
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: we can't say that in every case this has been

800
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: terrible for people. Yeah, it's not all bad, and you

801
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: could be really good at it. If you're an amazing salesperson,

802
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: then maybe this is the you know, a way for

803
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: you to make some money. I guess it just all

804
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: depends on when you get in at the pyramid, right. Uh.

805
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: And despite the massive controversies and the various convictions for

806
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: conspiracy literally for conspiracy. Uh, these companies, many of them

807
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: thrive in the modern day. For people who are opponent

808
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: of these practices or techniques, the biggest question is this,

809
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: why is this still legal? How? According to Fitzpatrick, we

810
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: have no law in the US explicitly defining a pyramid

811
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: scheme or explicitly defining multi level marketing. They didn't as often.

812
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: But there is there is one thing that might help

813
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 1: us out, and it is an article from Skeptoid. According

814
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: to Brian Dunning over at Skeptoid, always love reading what

815
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: he has to say about these topics. According to him,

816
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: he says that network marketing plans, which is another euphemism

817
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: or synonym for this uh, they differ from illegal pyramid

818
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: schemes in one important way. Commissions can only legally be

819
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: paid on sales of a physical product. If commissions are

820
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: offered on recruitment of new distributors, then it's defined as

821
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,360
Speaker 1: an illegal pyramid scheme. But the out now, illegal plans

822
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: are pretty rare, according to Dunning. Instead, most companies are

823
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: smart enough to stay just on the right side of

824
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: the law, literally on the edge, living on the edge

825
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: of the law. There we go. Yeah, and uh, he's

826
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: got some really interesting statistics about this stuff too. It's

827
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: it's illuminating, it's not particularly inspiring. According to the rather

828
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: poultry financial records that have been released. UH Newsweek, for instance,

829
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: found that fewer than one percent of distributors for an

830
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: outfit called Mona Vie ever qualified for any commission at

831
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 1: all unless than one and one thousand recovered the cost

832
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: of their required monthly purchases. I wish you put that in.

833
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: It's not a one time purchase. Yeah you gotta keep buying. Yeah,

834
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: you gotta keep buying because you gotta keep selling. That's

835
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: the whole point. And again, like I said, if you're

836
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: a great salesperson and somehow you're just unloading mona vie,

837
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: then you or that one that one in And so

838
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: the FTC is still working to create policy or business

839
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: guidance concerning these m l m s as as we record,

840
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: and you can find their various fact sheets. They have

841
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: a they have a great thing available on tips and tricks. Well,

842
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to say tricks, tips and advice for

843
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: mL m s. And if you're considering one, we do

844
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: we do ask you to read that in conclusion. For us,

845
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 1: at least, if something sounds too good to be true,

846
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: well there's a reason we call them cliches. And the

847
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: reason you've heard that phrase so many times is because

848
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: if something sounds too good to be true, there is

849
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: usually something hidden behind the curtain. And this isn't to

850
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: say that these MLMs have not ever worked or anyone

851
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: it's just in most cases, the majority of people lose

852
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: much more money than they make, and they lose much

853
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: more than they were led to believe was possible. Yeah,

854
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:13,919
Speaker 1: but they made so many friends in a whole new

855
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: family while they were doing it. No, boy, were You're

856
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: saving that one. And the people who make the cat

857
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: the most cash, overwhelmingly are going to be the same

858
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: people who founded the company. So please, please, please be

859
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: extremely careful when you are approached by mlm s and

860
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: when you hear a pitch from your friends, family, or

861
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:38,359
Speaker 1: innocent strangers, remember there's probably something that company doesn't want

862
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: you to know, and it's probably something that they don't

863
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: want the person who's talking to you to know either,

864
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: or the people you're talking to, the people you are

865
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: talking to, or the people that you convinced to talk

866
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: to other people. Kind goes on. It's like two mirrors

867
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 1: facing each other. Yeah, if you're if you are facing

868
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: one of those mirrors and you find yourself in that ash,

869
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 1: and all we can say is we hope you get

870
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: out if you can. If it's a problem, if you're

871
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: in some kind of debt due to this and it

872
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: becomes a cycle, there are places you can go online

873
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: to start getting some help and hopefully maybe you can,

874
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: you know, go the way of the Herbal Life lawsuit

875
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: and get your money back at some point. Just knowing

876
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: that that that lawsuit occurred in or at lease was

877
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: finalized in that gives I think should give everyone hope.

878
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: And if you have an example of a positive experience

879
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: that you have had with one of these companies where

880
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: these types of entities, we would like to hear that too.

881
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: We want to see um we we want to see

882
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: provable positive stuff. Absolutely. In the meantime, we are going

883
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: to head out. It looks like we've been game blown

884
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: up with emails from this broad brush LLC act now folks,

885
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: I know, I can't believe they're coming it already. We

886
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 1: just put this episode out right right. It's illumination Global

887
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: Unlimited works in mysterious ways, just like the rules of cricket. Yep,

888
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: that's terrible. I should just try to learn how cricket

889
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: works yet of lamenting it. If you if you know

890
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: how cricket works, you can find us on Facebook and

891
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: Twitter where we're conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

892
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: You can call our number right now. Stop what you're doing,

893
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: pull over, call one eight three three st d w

894
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: y t K. Tell us a story about anything. We

895
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: want to hear it. We just want to hear your voice,

896
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: and our compatriot Noel will be returning. He's fun and

897
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: adventure a lot of us where many different hats and

898
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: disguises were kind of like the people in that show

899
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: the Americans, except we don't work for the KGB. No,

900
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: we work for Illumination Global Unlimited. So if you don't

901
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: want to do any of those things, are on a

902
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: wait wait. If the Americans didn't work for the KGB,

903
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: necessarily they work for the USSR. But did they though?

904
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: But did they? I don't know. Let us know, let

905
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: us know. We want to hear your thoughts. Uh, and

906
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: let us know. If you are interested in investing in

907
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: our new amazing opportunity to sell broad brushes and to

908
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: sell people on selling broad brushes, you can write to

909
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: us directly. We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot

910
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: com