1 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Pushkin too quick. No, it's perfect push git stup, you. 2 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: Got it, Malcolm Glavel. Here a quick note. This episode 3 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: of Business History is part of a larger series exploring trust, 4 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: where it comes from, the moment it's earned, and where 5 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: we decide to place it. This episode is sponsored by 6 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: PayPal Open, trusted by consumers, built for all business. For 7 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 2: over twenty five years, they've been at the forefront of commerce, 8 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: helping merchants of all sizes grow. So wherever commerce moves next, 9 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: you can rest assured PayPal Open has your back. And 10 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: with that, Jacob and Robert are taking you back to 11 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century, to the moment that launched a paradigm 12 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 2: shift in the way people buy things, and it's one 13 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: that sticks with us to this day. 14 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 3: Enjoy Robert Smith. 15 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 4: People have been using money to buy stuff for thousands of. 16 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: Years, yes, but you know what did not exist. 17 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 4: For almost all of that time the price tag. 18 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: How did you know what anything costs? 19 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 4: Anything cost what you were willing to pay for it, 20 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 4: and what the seller was willing to sell it for. 21 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 4: Every transaction was a haggel, was a bargain. 22 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm going to have to leave. This is 23 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: way too much, too. 24 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 4: Rich for my mom. No, come back, come back, have 25 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 4: a glass at tea. There was a moment, a specific 26 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 4: moment we can look at in history, when the price 27 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 4: tag appeared in the world and it appeared to solve 28 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 4: a particular problem, was a problem of trust. And the 29 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 4: price tag solved that problem so well that it took 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 4: over the shopping world. I'm Jacob Goldstein and I'm Robert Smith. 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 4: This is Business History, a show about the history of 32 00:02:12,959 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 4: business today. On the show, John Wannamaker, guy who made 33 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 4: the price tag great. With the price Tag, John Wannamaker 34 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: helped to reinvent shopping in America. And then a few 35 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 4: decades later he re reinvented shopping in America and he 36 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 4: solved the problem of trust in retail in the modern world. 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 4: John Wannamaker was born in eighteen thirty eight. 38 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: Let's go to settle in. 39 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 4: His dad was a brickmaker. He lived in what's now 40 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 4: South Philadelphia then it was South of Philadelphia Farms, Brickyards. 41 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: He started in retail as a teenager when a family 42 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 4: friend gave him a job at a store called Tower 43 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 4: Hall Clothing Store. It was a men's clothing store and 44 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 4: I just want to pause here to talk about like 45 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 4: what were stores in America in the early eighteen fifties. 46 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 4: Around this time, so most Americans still lived in the countryside, right, 47 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: and in the country you shopped at the general store, 48 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 4: a place where you knew the person who ran the store. 49 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 4: They knew you. You were probably a farmer, You've probably 50 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 4: known them all your life. 51 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: And everything you might need, and if they didn't they 52 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: could order it for. 53 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 4: You and you would almost certainly be buying on credit. 54 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 4: You'd pay up when the harvest came in. In some 55 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 4: cases you might even just pay directly with your crops. 56 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 4: So this was a very personal relationship, yes, very one 57 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: to one. You knew them, they knew you, you had credit. 58 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 4: But around this time, in the mid eighteen hundreds, this 59 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 4: is starting to change. People are moving to cities like Philadelphia, 60 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: and one of the defining features of urban life is anonymity. 61 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 4: You don't know everybody anymore like you did on the farm. 62 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 4: You know, maybe you've just moved to the city and 63 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 4: you knew your local merchant all your life. Now you 64 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 4: don't know anybody, but you need to buy something. So 65 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 4: where do you go? You go to a store you've 66 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 4: never been in before, and Robert I wanted to give 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 4: a sense of what this might be like, and I 68 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 4: found this amazing description. Apparently there was a shopping district 69 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 4: on Chatham Street, which is way downtown in Manhattan. I 70 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 4: guess it's Chatham Square today. And this passage, I'm gonna 71 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: ask you to read it gets at what urban clothes 72 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 4: shopping was like at this moment. 73 00:04:27,159 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: Honesty is a stranger in Chatham Street, and anyone making 74 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: a purchase here must expect to be cheated. The buildings 75 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: are generally old and dilapidated. The shops are low and dark, 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: and they are ranked with foul odors and are suggestive 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: of disease. The merchants know they are never expected to 78 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: sell honestly, and they make it a rule not to 79 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 1: disappoint their customers. So nothing's changed. 80 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 4: Trust us, you cannot trust us? Y. Yeah, So you 81 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 4: can see why there is a trust problem in shopping 82 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 4: at this moment in history. And in fact, interestingly, you know, 83 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 4: Wanamaker is going to work selling clothes, which itself is 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 4: kind of new. At this point, most people either made 85 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 4: their own clothes, or if they were rich enough, they 86 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: paid someone to make clothes for them. The sewing machine 87 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 4: was relatively new. It was allowing for the creation of 88 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 4: ready made clothes as a business, but people look down 89 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 4: on it. They called closed stores slop shops. 90 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: Like with ai because because it was bad and they 91 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: get cheated. 92 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 4: Poor poor quality. The slop part was poor Quality's like, 93 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 4: if you're like a sailor or something, you know, maybe 94 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 4: you buy these slops. But this store, Tower Hall, where 95 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 4: Wannamaker is going to work, is trying to be a 96 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: better kind of store. So you know, it is this 97 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 4: universe where closed stores have this very poor reputation, but 98 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 4: Tower Hall's trying to do better. It's run by a 99 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 4: guy named Joseph Monroe Bennett. And to be honest, I'm 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 4: only mentioning his name because I found a picture of 101 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 4: him and I can't get enough of his mustache and 102 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 4: I wanted to show it to you. 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: Wow, it's incredible his mustache. It's not waxed and big, 104 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: it's just bushy and big. His mustache goes out over 105 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: the call of his jacket. 106 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, Like if you picture like a hand going out 107 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 4: from either cheek to the side, like like wings, like 108 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 4: he could they could start flapping and he'd fly away. Okay, 109 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 4: so the two brooms, two brooms is good. So putting 110 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: this in just for the mustache. And you realize, when 111 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 4: I'm doing sort of profiles like this, I don't tend 112 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 4: to do visual descriptions of people. It's just not where 113 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 4: my mind goes. But look, we're doing this guy who's 114 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 4: just appearing for a sec. So let's do Wanta Maker, 115 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: the guy the show's actually about. Here's a picture of. 116 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: The show of just describing people what they look like. 117 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 4: Okay, give me Wannamaker. 118 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: Wannamaker looks like a very serious businessman, wearing a bow tie. 119 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: He's got tiny little glasses, the tiniest of tiny pins nezes. 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, no no arms, yeah yeah, tiny tiny glasses. 121 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: And he just looks like a very stern, serious person. 122 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, clean shaven, round faced, and you know, I think 123 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 4: I think this is in keeping with the with the 124 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 4: persona he's going to create, right, this very ordinary, upright shopkeeper. 125 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: I would trust him, maybe not the guy with the mustache, 126 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: but I would trust h Wannamaker. 127 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. So, okay, so who is this guy? This is 128 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 4: an older picture of him. Who is he when he's 129 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 4: a teenager, when he goes to work for a doctor 130 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 4: Mustache at the Tower Hall clothing store, not actually a doctor. 131 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 4: Nobody else ever called it doctor Mustache before, but you 132 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 4: know what I'm talking about. So so doctor Mustache will 133 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: later call Wanamaker the most ambitious boy I ever met. 134 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 4: But one of the things that's interesting about Wannamaker at 135 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 4: this moment that's relatable, as they say, is he's ambitious, 136 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 4: but he doesn't know ambitious for what you know, I want. 137 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 4: It is something big. He is deeply, deeply religious, and 138 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 4: I think earnestly, so I think he really believes it 139 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: his whole life. He never drank, smoke, gambled also one 140 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 4: I didn't see coming, never went to the theater. Thought 141 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 4: he wanted to be a minister, and he really liked 142 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 4: selling clothes and started thinking maybe I could be a 143 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 4: great merchant. And so there's this tension between the sort 144 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 4: of worldly pursuit of being a a retailer and this 145 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 4: other worldly pursuit of being a minister. And he's able 146 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 4: to resolve this tension when he discovers something called the 147 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 4: Businessman's Revival, a Christian movement where businessmen pray in the 148 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 4: middle of the day, and it's based on the idea 149 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 4: that you can reconcile these things so you can be 150 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,879 Speaker 4: a good Christian and work in business. And so this 151 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 4: is his path. 152 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: Now. 153 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 4: He starts leading midday prayer meetings, starts a Sunday school, 154 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,119 Speaker 4: brings people in with flyers and newspaper ads. So you know, 155 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 4: he's learning about marketing. He's making connections in town. 156 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: But he's also preaching, don't cheat your customers, have a 157 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: relationship with him, help them out. I think so. 158 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 4: I think so. He's certainly learning about running a retail business. 159 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 4: And in eighteen sixty one, in April, when he's twenty 160 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 4: three years old, he opens his own clothing store with 161 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 4: his brother in law. They call it Oak Hall Clothing Bazaar. 162 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 4: It's a little store, just, you know, ground floor of 163 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 4: a building. First day they're open, they have one customer. 164 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: And let me say again, April of eighteen sixty one, 165 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 4: four days after they open, Confederate troops fire on Fort 166 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 4: Sumter and the Civil War is joined. He is joined? 167 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: Is that what he's saying? Yeah, Wannamaker doesn't serve in 168 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 4: the Union Army because he has bad lungs, which I 169 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 4: think is a real thing. I don't think it's fake, 170 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 4: so he's stuck in Philly. Business is bad and part 171 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: of the reason it's hardest because retailing has such low 172 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 4: barriers to entry right at this point, especially, anybody wants 173 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 4: to can set up a shop. There's little storefront shops. 174 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 4: There's people selling stuff just on like push carts, push 175 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 4: carts going door to door. They're just set up on 176 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,599 Speaker 4: the street. Lots of the businesses fail every year. And Wannamaker, 177 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 4: of course, wants to set his store apart, like in 178 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 4: every story we have, how do you set your business apart? 179 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 4: And he's going to do a few things. He's going 180 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 4: to do a few things to distinguish his store from 181 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 4: these other stores. The big problem, just to restate it, 182 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 4: is trust, right, people really don't trust urban shopkeepers and 183 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 4: people all the time they get shorted goods or there's 184 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 4: a move where the shopkeeper will show them a sample 185 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 4: and then the customer will buy it, and then what 186 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 4: actually gets wrapped up and given to them a bag 187 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 4: is something else. And like you know, returns are not 188 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 4: a thing. It's just it's it's ugly out there. And 189 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 4: then on top of that you got to haggle. So 190 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 4: every time it's like stressful and antagonistic. 191 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: Weirdly enough, it reminds me of the early days of 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: internet shopping or no where you assumed that you were 193 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: setting your money off and you would never see any 194 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: Putting your credit card into the computer was seemed like 195 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: a bad eye. 196 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 4: It seemed like an obviously bad idea, Like, I'm not 197 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: going to type my credit card onto my computer. What's 198 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 4: even going on? 199 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: So I can sort of picture how people felt like 200 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: this is weird. 201 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 4: Yes, So it's this universe of basically every man or 202 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: woman for himself or herself. Right, But why if I 203 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 4: actually wrote about this, Robert, give it? Give it to us. 204 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: The rules of the game were don't pay the first 205 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: price asked, look out for yourself and bargaining, haggle and 206 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: beat the seller as hard as you can. 207 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 4: Yes, so that's one part of it. And then there's 208 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 4: another detail he mentions, give us the other detail. When 209 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 4: a thing was sold, it was sold no return like 210 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 4: law of the jungle shopping here, And it's a real 211 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 4: problem because of what we talk about as information asymmetry. 212 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 4: If you're the seller, you know how good your product is. 213 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I just walked in the store, so 214 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't know the best price for it. I don't 215 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: know if you're cheating me. I don't know if the 216 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: product is bad. This leads to transactions that never happened, 217 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: because why would I risk it if I don't know 218 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: who you are? 219 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 4: And it leads to bad feelings. Right, I know that 220 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 4: seems like handwavy and vibe, but this is fundamentally the 221 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 4: trust problem. So Wanamaker is trying to walk into this 222 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 4: cold capitalist market and set himself apart. And the first 223 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 4: thing he does is he advertises. He advertises a lot. 224 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: His first big sale, he nets thirty eight dollars in profit, 225 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 4: and he spends all of it buying ads space in 226 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: the Philadelphian Choir, the newspaper. And on top of that, 227 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 4: he's blanketing the city with leaflets and little booklets talking 228 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 4: about his store. His partner's brother in law's last name 229 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 4: is Brown, and he puts actually clocks at the railroad 230 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 4: stations with the initials W ANDB, Wannamaker and Brown. He 231 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 4: buys these big one hundred foot long billboards. And so 232 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 4: this part, right, this is brand advertising. He's creating this 233 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 4: persona for himself and his store. Read to us from 234 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 4: this ad Okay, This is for a landsdown, which is 235 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 4: apparently a kind of cloth silken wool Landsdowns made in 236 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 4: old Philadelphia, not far from the Watermaker's store. 237 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: We always knew William F. Reid and were the first 238 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: to introduce and to stand for the first landsdowns that 239 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: he made. Oh, this seems like plucked from a menu 240 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: in Lower Manhattan today. 241 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 4: Yes, right, Like when the waiter comes and tells you, 242 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 4: like where the chickens grew up in, what music they 243 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 4: listened to or whatever. 244 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: It's telling a story about a product. 245 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's Watermakers relateationship to this local artisan, right, 246 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 4: Like we always knew William E. Fried and we're the 247 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 4: first to introduce and stand for and also made in Philadelphia, 248 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 4: not far from the Wannamaker store He's this is like, Oh, 249 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 4: it's a country store. Like him and Reed are just 250 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 4: sitting there and there, rocking chairs on the porch or something. Right, 251 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 4: I'm not some crooked urban merchant. I'm a friendly local shopkeeper. 252 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: Down an old timey Philadelphia in. 253 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 4: Old time in Philadelphia. So you know, Wannamaker is clearly 254 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 4: doing something here. He has a strategy, you can see 255 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 4: it emerging from his ads. But it is a difficult business, 256 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: but he keeps putting money in, gets a contract making 257 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 4: uniforms for union troops, keeps him going, keeps them alive 258 00:13:54,720 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 4: through the war. And then in eighteen sixty five, Wannamaker 259 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 4: makes this move to build trust in his store that 260 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 4: is going to change American retail forever. He describes this 261 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 4: moment in his memoir The Golden Book, which I have 262 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 4: not quoted much from because it is like incredibly self 263 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 4: congratulatory and sanctimonious, and it just not that fun to read. 264 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: Kind of an ad for him in the story. 265 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 4: He knows what he's doing, but this part is really 266 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 4: on point. 267 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: Give it to us, he says. He unfurled the first 268 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: Wannamaker flag of fair dealing. It was true blue bore, 269 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: this revolutionary symbol one price and return of goods. One 270 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: price in return of goods. 271 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 4: So one price, no haggling. A thing costs what it costs, 272 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 4: and then return of goods means if you don't like it, 273 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 4: you can bring it back and we'll give you your 274 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 4: money back. 275 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: This one price thing. You walk in and the jacket 276 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: says fifty five cents, and of course you think it's 277 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: a trick. 278 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 4: So you're like, well, will you take forty No, I'm sorry, sir, 279 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 4: the jacket costs fifty five cents. 280 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: That makes no sense. Just because you wrote it down, 281 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean we can't haggle. 282 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 4: The hearing of a conversation. Well, I mean so if 283 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 4: you think about it. So it's the pairing right, people 284 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 4: had Actually like, he didn't invent one price. He seems 285 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: to have invented, at least in the US. The combination. 286 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 4: And the combination is important, right because it's like, you 287 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: can buy it for fifty five cents, and if you 288 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 4: find out tomorrow that I gave you a bad deal, 289 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 4: you can bring it back. And so he is getting 290 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 4: rid of haggling, right, And it certainly increases efficiency, it 291 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 4: makes it more pleasant. I kind of like haggling in 292 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 4: some settings. 293 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. You may be the only one. I 294 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: do not like it. I in fact want to see 295 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: the price, get in and out as quickly as possible, 296 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: because I can determine if the price is fair or not. 297 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: My time's worth money. 298 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 4: What about on a big transaction. I know you're not 299 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 4: a car guy. You live in New York and love 300 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: not having a car, But like when you buy a car. 301 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: I know I want the one price. I really do. Huh, 302 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: I really do. I just don't. I don't want the stress, 303 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: I don't want the research. I just want to look 304 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: at a price and determine whether it's worth it to me. 305 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: But that's just me. 306 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 4: You've told me you don't even chop around. You just 307 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 4: go buy a shirt, and you just walk in a 308 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 4: store and pay for a shirt. It's so efficient. We 309 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 4: are not the same. So I will say, in this 310 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 4: world we've been talking about, which is very antagonistic, right, 311 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 4: where a purchase is a kind of battle, and the 312 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 4: seller's trying to get the better of the buyer and 313 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 4: the buyer's trying to get the better of the seller. 314 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 4: One price gets rid of that, right, and the return 315 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 4: kind of smooths any rough edges. It turns shopping into 316 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: a sort of we're all in this together. Here's the price, sir. 317 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: We believe it is a fair price, and it's the 318 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 4: same for everyone. Would you like to make the purchase? 319 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: In terms of game theory, he's turning it from a 320 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: one time game where you should try and screw the 321 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: other guy as much as possible, But if you have 322 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: a repeated game where you know you're going to have 323 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: to transactions over the course of a long period of time. 324 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: It's best for you to be as fair as possible. 325 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: You want the person to come back, and so all 326 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: of these things. You check the price, it's fifty five cents. 327 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: You come the next day, it's also fifty five cents. 328 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Other people say they spend fifty five cents. 329 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 4: But also, if you don't like it, you can bring 330 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 4: it back. Like the return policy is a big trust builder. 331 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 4: Let's go back to the Wannamaker memoir for the impact 332 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 4: of his one price and return of goods policy. 333 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: A nitro glitcier and bomb exploded in the basement of 334 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: each business house in Philadelphia could not have caused greater 335 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: confusion among merchants or more talk on the part of 336 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: the public. 337 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 4: He's not under selling it. He's not under selling it. 338 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 4: So funny, but look, his combination of one price and 339 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 4: return of goods did explode like a bomb. 340 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: Nitroglycerin bomb. 341 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 4: I guess so I don't know about but yes, sure, 342 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 4: a nitroglycerin bomb. And O call his clothing store becomes 343 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 4: the largest men's store in town. They expand into the 344 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 4: building next store than they take over the whole block. 345 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 4: They open a second fancier location in town, so that 346 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 4: by eighteen seventy five his stores are doing several million 347 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 4: dollars in sales per year. They employ over one thousand people. 348 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 4: And he wants to not just grow, but he wants 349 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 4: to invent. 350 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: A new kind of store. 351 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 4: He's going to re reinvent shopping in America in a 352 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 4: way that we'll have implications for the next hundred years. 353 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 4: And we're going to talk about that in just a minute, 354 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 4: and we're back. Like John Wannamaker, he never left, He 355 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: never left. The year is eighteen seventy one, and John 356 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 4: Wannamaker goes to Europe. Right a children's book about that. 357 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 4: Europe's gonna have a huge influence on Wannamaker and on 358 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 4: shopping in America. 359 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: Takes the ship. I imagine it's his only option. 360 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 4: And in particularly, there are two places wanta Maker goes 361 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 4: that are going to influence this new kind of story's 362 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 4: going to build. First is the International Exhibition in London. 363 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 4: We love a nineteenth century international exhibition, big deal. They 364 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 4: had him all the time. I feel like if in 365 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 4: the eighteen hundreds you couldn't throw a rock without hitting 366 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 4: an international exhibition. 367 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: I mean it was like watching television at the time. 368 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: How would you see the new gears of the new products, 369 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: It's true. 370 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: And so the eighteen seventy one London exhibition, you paid 371 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 4: an entrance fee, was like a business, I guess, and 372 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 4: you got to see everything. Paintings, lace, porcelain, toys, a lama, 373 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 4: a live lama, cloth from India, ivory jewelry. It was 374 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 4: like this, like a weird pop up metropolitan museum. You know, 375 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 4: the world, the world in a. 376 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: Place, except it's new stuff that you haven't seen before 377 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: that you would probably talk about endlessly to your friends 378 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: and it's probably what. 379 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 4: Everybody in town was talking about. And Wannamaker loved it. 380 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 4: He loved in particular there was this pipe organ in 381 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 4: the middle of a giant pipe organ where everybody would 382 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 4: have sing alongs. So okay, so put in your head 383 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 4: the exhibition, all the stuff under one roof, PA number two. 384 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 4: He goes around this time. I think this was a 385 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 4: separate trip. Is a store in Paris called the bond Marche. 386 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: Which I have been to in Paris if it's still 387 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: open now. But when I went to Paris, the bon 388 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: Marche was amazing, you know, big beautiful building, everything under 389 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: the sun, all sorts of foods in the basement, lots 390 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: of brass, and what I loved about them. This is 391 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: back before the iPhone. They gave you a free map 392 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: of the city smart with Bon Marche marked in the 393 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: map right there, big little so yeah. 394 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 4: I mean Wannamaker has a somewhat similar impression, right, perhaps 395 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 4: a larger magnitude. He I think at this point has 396 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 4: never seen a store that sells everything. Right at the time, 397 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 4: you could go to a men's clothes store. If you 398 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 4: want a men's clothes, you go to a women's clothing store. 399 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 4: But they had clothing for all people. They also sold 400 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,719 Speaker 4: clothes and perfume and shoes, and plates and silverware and rugs. 401 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 4: You know, it's an apartment store. But this term doesn't 402 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 4: exist yet, and department stores are starting to show up 403 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 4: at this time here, here's one there, and there are 404 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 4: few in the US. But Bon Marche was bigger and 405 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 4: better than all the rest. And when Wanamaker was visiting, 406 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 4: the Bon Marche was building this new and even bigger building. 407 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 4: It had giant windows, Gustave Eiffel tower. Fame is going 408 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 4: to put some kind of iron and glass dome on top, 409 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 4: and inside the store it's like that exhibition in London, 410 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 4: but you. 411 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: Can buy all the stuff. 412 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 4: You can buy the rugs hanging from the balconies and 413 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 4: the silks on the walls, and it's bright and anybody 414 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 4: who wants to can come in. And this is different. 415 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: You know. 416 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 4: It used to be poor people went to stores for 417 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 4: poor people, and middle class people went to stores for 418 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 4: middle class people, and you had to be rich to 419 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 4: go into the store that sold beautiful stuff for rich people. 420 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 4: And the Bon Marche is not like that, Like you 421 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 4: can just walk into the store and be in there. 422 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 4: And it changed. It changed life for people in Paris 423 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 4: to such an extent that Emil Solazola, the novelist, wrote 424 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 4: a book, a novel basically about a fictionalized version of 425 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 4: the Bon Marche. In translation, it's called The Ladies Paradise, 426 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 4: and he describes just the physical space, which you know, 427 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 4: remember that the earlier description of stories as these tramp 428 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 4: dark places. Here give us Zola on what it's like 429 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 4: at the Bon Marche. 430 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: Space had been gained. Everywhere, light and air entered freely, 431 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: and the public circulated with ease beneath the bold curves 432 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: of the wide spaced trusses. It was the cathedral of 433 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: modern business, strong and yet light, built for vast crowds 434 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: of customers. 435 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 4: Cathedral, Cathedral, Cathedral. Remember, Wannamaker was torn between minister and merchant. 436 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 4: Of course, he wants to build the cathedral of business, right, 437 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 4: of course, this is this is what he wants. He 438 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: wants to build a store that is more than just 439 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 4: a place to buy stuff. He wants to build a 440 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 4: store that's kind of a museum, kind of a civic center, 441 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 4: but also a store. He wants to sell a lot 442 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 4: of stuff. And so goes back to Philly. In in 443 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 4: eighteen seventy five, Wannamaker buys the old Pennsylvania Railroad yard, 444 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 4: this giant I guess train shed, train shed with a 445 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 4: glass and iron ceiling, the largest open floor in Philadelphia. 446 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 4: And now you look at a map and it's like 447 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 4: the middle of town. But at the time it was 448 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 4: outside of the retail district where people went to shop. 449 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 4: And you know, of course everybody walked everywhere at the time, 450 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 4: and so buying a shop outside the retail district doesn't 451 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 4: make any sense. Here, there's a businessman at the time, 452 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 4: he bought this, wrote about why everybody thought it was 453 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 4: a bad idea. 454 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: The consensus of opinion was that the purchase would prove 455 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 1: a ruinous one. The idea seemed chimerical in the extreme, 456 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: to start a clothing store so far from the general 457 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: current of retail traffic. 458 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 4: Hi America in the extreme. Guffawd, guffawd. But there are 459 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 4: a couple of things going in Wannamaker's favor here. One, 460 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 4: public transportation is being invented. Fun street cars are new 461 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 4: at this point. They're like trolley's, like we think of 462 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 4: the city but being towed by a horse, which is 463 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 4: an image that I love. So eighteen hundreds, you know, 464 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 4: like the modern world, but not quite. And so public 465 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 4: transportation means you don't have to walk to do all 466 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 4: your shopping. You don't have to have a little store 467 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 4: next to everybody's house. You can have a big store 468 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 4: that a lot of people take the streetcar too. Another 469 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: thing going in Wannamaker's favor, Philadelphia is about to have 470 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 4: a centennial exposition. Of course America one hundred, ah was 471 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 4: America one hundred And. 472 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: There's a big wrestling match. 473 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 4: Yes it happened, right, So, so a Wannamaker is on 474 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 4: the committee for this event, and he knows it's coming, 475 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 4: and he knows people are going to come to town. 476 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 4: They're going to take the trained to town. 477 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Convenient he's on the committee. 478 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 4: Convenient that he's on the committee. And he figures out, 479 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 4: you know, some of these million people or whatever it 480 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 4: is come into town. Maybe we'll swing by the store. 481 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 4: And so he rushes the store into shape to have 482 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 4: this kind of soft opening before the centennial. Prince up 483 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 4: souvenir maps of the city, just like the bond Marche 484 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 4: where it went. And of course the store is prominently 485 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 4: marked on the metal' a big star. It's a giant. 486 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: Visit here please, And the fair is huge, maybe the 487 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 4: biggest thing in the city since the signing of the 488 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 4: Declaration of Independence, I'm not sure. And it makes Wannamaker's 489 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 4: store an institution, right it is now if you think 490 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 4: about before there was the like untrustworthy, weird, dark store, 491 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 4: then there was his big store. Now it's like part 492 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 4: of Philly is Wannamakers. It is now a civic institution. 493 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: You might visit as a tourist, you might visit for 494 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: fun on a Sunday afternoon. 495 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you might be proud of it, right if 496 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 4: you live there, and so, you know, he's kind of 497 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 4: rushed the store into shape for the centennial in eighteen seventy, 498 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 4: but it's really ready for its full you know, official 499 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 4: out of previews opening day in eighteen seventy seven Watermaker's 500 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 4: Grand Depot. Seventy thousand people show up for the opening day, 501 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 4: seventy thousand, and this store is unlike anything they've seen before. 502 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 4: You know, aisles hundreds of feet long, men's clothing, women's clothing, China, 503 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 4: dry goods. I think dry goods here means like linens 504 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 4: and fabric and buttons and stuff. And then the heart 505 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 4: of the store the kind of holy of holies. I'm 506 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 4: sure wanta Maker would object to that description. He put 507 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 4: the most luxurious goods. There's this special dark rooms carpeted, 508 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 4: it's lit by gas fixtures, and the idea is it's 509 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 4: supposed to mimic a ballroom, so women can like take 510 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 4: the finest silks in there and see how will they 511 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 4: look under the lights of the ballroom. 512 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: This is the very beginning of experiential retailing. The Arii 513 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: and sat rain room that holies where you try on 514 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: your gore Tex and they would pour water on you. 515 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: But this is a similar thing. This is the start 516 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: of that. 517 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 4: It is and and it's really notable that this most 518 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 4: important thing at the center of the store is aimed 519 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 4: at women. You know, this is the eighteen hundreds when 520 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 4: you know, obviously women can't vote, they're not working. 521 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: But women are his key customers. 522 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 4: And Wanamakers ends up being a really important place for 523 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 4: women in Philadelphia because because it's one of the only 524 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 4: places that you know, respectable middle class Victorian women can 525 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 4: congregate in public without men. You know, they couldn't go 526 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 4: to bars, they didn't typically work outside the home. But 527 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,919 Speaker 4: Wanamaker has created this place where women can just be together, 528 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 4: even if they're not there to buy anything. And so 529 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 4: let's go back to that idea of trust. 530 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: Right. 531 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 4: It's a little subtler here, but quite interesting. Right. We 532 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 4: talked about it with one price and the money back guarantee. 533 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 4: But here's happening in a sort of broader social way. Right, 534 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 4: He's creating a place beyond just the transaction. He's creating 535 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 4: this public place where, you know, it's a city where 536 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 4: people often feel unsafe or unwelcome, women can come to 537 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 4: this store, and they can trust the physical space itself. 538 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 4: They can trust that they'll be welcome, that they'll be safe. 539 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: It has that kind of like shared civic infrastructure field 540 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: or a public plaza, maybe you know, a town square. 541 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 4: But but retail is a difficult business, right, famously difficult business. 542 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 4: And Wannamaker has had to borrow money to build his 543 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 4: dream store. The economy is in bad shape. This is 544 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 4: the eighteen seventies, a period they called the Great Depression. 545 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 4: At the time, I didn't know what was coming, so 546 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 4: that was like a great depression one. And Wannamaker has 547 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 4: actually gone a little bit too far. He's taken on 548 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 4: more debt than he should have to buy more stuff 549 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 4: than he can sell, and he's now he's starting to 550 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 4: fall behind on payments for his merchandise. Some of his 551 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 4: creditors start refusing to sell to him. His credit rating 552 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 4: gets caught. It's hard for him to make payroll. 553 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: It's very hard to hold that much merchandise as inventory. 554 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: You think about you build this giant structure, and yeah, 555 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: you're going to sell more, but you've got to fill 556 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: every corner of it with something, and that is money 557 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: you have sent out the door and you're not going 558 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: to get back. Yes, cash flow, right, We've talked about 559 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: cash flows every time. 560 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 4: So Wannamaker has this this cash flow problem essentially at 561 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 4: the same time, he also has something of a social problem. 562 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 4: There's basically an anti Wannamaker backlash. He is the big 563 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 4: business now and the little guys out of business. He's 564 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 4: putting the little guys out of business. Some retailers actually 565 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 4: band together and and say to manufacturers, if you sell 566 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 4: to Wannamaker, then we're not going to buy from you. 567 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 4: One of the local newspapers turns against him. Here, give us, 568 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 4: give us a little editorial. 569 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: There's been a greedy, grasping and godless spirit at work 570 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: in the mind of somebody, prompting him to break down 571 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: other businesses and absorb almost every branch of mercantile business 572 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 1: in his own establishment. 573 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 4: Godless must have hurt our man's godless. You know who 574 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 4: we got now on the anti Wannamaker train, Mark Twain. 575 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: Oh, that's gotta hurt. Give it to us, that buttermouth 576 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 1: Sunday School, slobbering sneak thief John Wannamaker now Philadelphia presently 577 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: of hell so. 578 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 4: Good Sunday School slabbering, sneak thief. I don't generally love alliteration, 579 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 4: but I love that alliteration. Let me mention that that 580 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 4: Mark Twain quote, and this section in general, comes from 581 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 4: a book called John Wannamaker Philadelphia Merchant. It's like those 582 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 4: company names that I love, like US Steel or National 583 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: Head John Wannamaker Philadelphia Merchant by one Herbert Erskowitz, which 584 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 4: was particularly helpful given the context of books like John 585 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 4: Wannamaker's own autobiography, which of course didn't talk. 586 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: About this backlash year not mention Mark Twain. 587 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 4: So you got the debts, You've got great depression one 588 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 4: point zero, You've got the backlash. It's the end of 589 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 4: eighteen seventy seven. Wannamaker is running out of money. More 590 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 4: or less, he starts firing managers and buyers, sell some 591 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 4: merchandise below cost. Ultimately he loses about two hundred and 592 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 4: fifty thousand dollars on the year for eighteen seventy seven. 593 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: Is this the fall of the risin falls? 594 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,959 Speaker 4: It's the big moment. John Wannamaker has to decide how 595 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 4: is he gonna try and save himself? And you know 596 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 4: what he decides to do. Decides to go bigger. 597 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: Yes, and we shall also go bigger after the break, 598 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: All a break. 599 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 4: Robert Smith. John Wannamaker is in trouble. 600 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: He's in big trouble. 601 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 4: He borrows money, He buys up adjacent stores. He turns 602 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 4: the Grand Depot into any even grander depot, the biggest 603 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 4: store in the world, eleven acres of sales floor, three 604 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 4: thousand workers, restaurants, art galleries, jewelry shops, furniture exhibitions. It's 605 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 4: like Vegas before Vegas, but of course without the gambling. 606 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 4: And he's gonna launch it all. He's going to make 607 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 4: his big. 608 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: Bet to save his store on the back of Christmas. 609 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: Christmas Baby. At the time, was there a Christmas shopping season. 610 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: Christmas was becoming secular and commercial. 611 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 4: I kind of wanted him to invent Christmas shopping for 612 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 4: purpose of the story, but he didn't. Santa had been around. 613 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 4: There was Santa, I think was already at Macy's by 614 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: this point. Macy's was already thinking in Philly there was 615 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 4: like a candy store that had sant already, which I love. 616 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 4: But Wannamaker, being Wanamaker, is going to go bigger. He's 617 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 4: going to out Christmas all the other Christmas y retailers, 618 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 4: and he makes this move that's really interesting and it 619 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 4: brings together a lot of these threads we've been talking about. 620 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 4: He says that on November twelfth, the store will be 621 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 4: open in the evening, but there won't be any shopping. 622 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 4: You can't buy anything. 623 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: It will be here. Read what he says, simply an 624 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,719 Speaker 1: opportunity to promenade and see the sights of the store. 625 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 4: It's like the London Exhibition or something. 626 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: Right, you're a businessman who's not gonna let you buy anything, 627 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: like the cash registers are closed. You can beg you 628 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: can't buy. 629 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 4: It's wild, right, it's a really interesting moment. Maybe it's 630 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 4: like a sneaker drop or something. I don't know exactly 631 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 4: what the analog is. So he does it, calls it 632 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 4: the Grand Illumination, and well, just read to us from 633 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 4: the Philadelphia Times who reported on it. 634 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: The next day, a band had been engaged, and after 635 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: the store had taken in as many people as it 636 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: could hold, the music began. The place, with its thousands 637 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: of lights, with its flags of every nation decorating the ceiling, 638 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: and with the almost innumerable array of gay colors, could 639 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: be compared to nothing else than an exposition I praised. 640 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: Back then, some said they had not seen such a 641 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: crowd since the centennial panoff. 642 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 4: So Christmas, now after that day, is on sale at Watermakers. 643 00:34:18,279 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 4: It was everybody to know it. Give us an ad 644 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,479 Speaker 4: that he runs. 645 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: The many departments contain nearly a million dollars. One million 646 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: dollars largely suitable for Christmas. Makes a lovely gift. There 647 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: are cash desks at nearly every counter, and a large 648 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: increase of clerks. You already had thousands of them, Well 649 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: now there's thousands and one. 650 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 4: Every day a band is playing, Tens of thousands of 651 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 4: people are coming every day. It's a hit. It works, 652 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 4: Christmas saves wannamakers. Yay, he's making money. Credit rating gets 653 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 4: bumped back up, and the day after Christmas in eighteen 654 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 4: seventy eight, he turns on arc lamps. First retail store 655 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 4: to be lit with electric lights, and he starts now 656 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 4: turning his store into this kind of home of technological marvels. 657 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 4: He puts in air conditioning, elevators, a pneumatic tubes system. 658 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 4: I love a pneumatic too. 659 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: I would travel just to see that, and I bet 660 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: people did because you hear like, oh, Watermakers has elevators. 661 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: Everybody's like, gotta ride that. 662 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 4: And this is deliberate. He actually creates these museum like 663 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 4: kind of exhibits. There's the signing of the Constitution, of course, 664 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 4: because Philly the life of Napoleon. But everybody loves Napoleon. 665 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 4: It came up at Ida Tarbell. We've done Napoleon a 666 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 4: couple of times. My favorite, they have one early shoemaking. 667 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: He's a cobbler there. 668 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 4: He has events for Lincoln's birthday. The store, the store 669 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 4: just keeps growing and becoming more and more this center 670 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 4: of a lot of civic life. And I think the 671 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 4: high point of that arc comes on December thirtieth, nineteen eleven, 672 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 4: I Wanta Maker opens an even bigger store whatever sixty 673 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 4: eight elevators, you know, biggest dining room in the world, 674 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 4: biggest pipe organ in the world, and an atrium at 675 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 4: the center of the door, big enough to fit twenty 676 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 4: five thousand people, which seems shocking to me, but I'm 677 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 4: pretty sure it's true because that's how many people came 678 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 4: to the grand opening. Among them one William Howard Taft, 679 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 4: President of the United States, who gives a speech about 680 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 4: what Wannamaker has done, and he. 681 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: Describes fixedness of the price the convenience accorded to all 682 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: in the return of unsatisfactory goods. The President of the 683 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 1: United States just did an add for your company. 684 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 4: Yes, and tow did your big breakthrough one price return 685 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 4: of goods. Wannamaker obviously has made it. When the President 686 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 4: is giving you a free ad, you have made it. 687 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 4: And around this time he writes this letter to a friend. 688 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 4: That is a nice kind of tap to all this capstone, 689 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 4: because it is like a summary of his professional worldview 690 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 4: after fifty years as a merchant. 691 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: He writes, this has been called the age of the trust. 692 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: That's trust with the capital tea meaning monopolies like standard oil. 693 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 1: This has been called the age of the trust. It 694 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: is also an age of distrust. The merchant must be 695 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: big enough, broad enough, far seeing enough to survey the 696 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: whole field, and then to stand as a bulwark amid 697 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: the confusions, heresies, and fear of his time, almost a 698 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: religious calling to increase trust and people's understanding of business. 699 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 4: Yes, and he is boiling it down to this idea 700 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 4: that the secret to building the biggest store in the 701 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 4: world having the president of the United States come and 702 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 4: give you a free ad when you open your store. 703 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 4: Is build a store that customer's trust. Wannamaker died about 704 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 4: a decade after that, but his store has continued on 705 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 4: for decades for most of the twentieth century. I actually 706 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 4: remember visiting my grandparents in Philadelphia outside of Philadelphia in 707 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 4: the later part of the twentieth century, and Wannamaker's was. 708 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: I did look it up because I thought, when we're 709 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: doing this show, I would love to visit Wanamakers. It 710 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: is now closed and the building is going to become condos, 711 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: but they need to keep the organ on display. It's 712 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: been historically recognized. 713 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 4: And I think there's a big eagle statue maybe as well. 714 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 1: Meet me at the Eagle was one of the things 715 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 1: people said. 716 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's the end of Wannamakers Do. I want 717 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 4: to end though on a question slash idea, right, and 718 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 4: that is I want to go back to one price 719 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 4: to the price tag, which to me is really the 720 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 4: big idea here. And I want to think about the future. Right. 721 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 4: We're at a moment when technologically it is quite easy 722 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 4: now to abandon the price tag. We don't need fixed 723 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 4: prices anymore because we're all looking on our own phones 724 00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 4: and it's easy enough for merchant to show everybody a 725 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 4: different price. Say so, my question for you is, do 726 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 4: you think we are at the end of one price? 727 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: Yes, because I think when you want something, you assume 728 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: there will be a price that you're not pay You 729 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: assume that there will be a sale soon, a discount, coupon, 730 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: some way you can find it online for less. I 731 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: think people go into it now knowing the price is 732 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: a game. 733 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 4: Here's what I think. I think people are used to 734 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 4: the price changing over time. I mean, obviously people are 735 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 4: still like to get mad about surge pricing, say on 736 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 4: uber or that sort of thing. But I think the 737 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 4: price changing over time feels quite different than different people 738 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 4: pay different prices at the same moment. And I think, well, 739 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 4: people might accept surge pricing, might accept, you know, digital 740 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 4: price tags at the grocery store. I think people will 741 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 4: reject different prices for different people at the same time 742 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 4: because it feels like a betrayal. I think people still 743 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 4: feel like a store that charges everyone the same price 744 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 4: at the same moment is a store you can trust. 745 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: You know. 746 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 4: It's been a while, well, Robert, since we asked people 747 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 4: to write to us. Thank you to all those of 748 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 4: you who are still writing to us at Business History 749 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 4: at Pushkin dot fm, We've. 750 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: Had lots of great ideas. 751 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,399 Speaker 4: Send us more. Today's show was produced by Gabriel Hunter 752 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 4: Chang was engineered by Sarah Bruguerer. Our video editor is 753 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 4: Matt Nielsen or on YouTube. Our showrunner and editor is 754 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 4: Ryan D. Day Dilly, I'm Jacob Goldstein. 755 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm Robert Smith. Thanks for listening.