Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news from.
Speaker 2: The Heart where Innovation, money and power. Collie in Silicon Valley, Nbon.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow
Speaker 3: live from New York.
Speaker 2: I'm Tim Steneveeck in for Caroline Hyde. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Technology coming up. Cloud nine. Broadcom up around twenty percent,
Speaker 2: soaring the most going all the way back to twenty
Speaker 2: twenty and topping one trillion dollars in valuation after posting
Speaker 2: it better than expected results. Plus Jeff Bezos looks to
Speaker 2: President Elect Trump to help with his space ambitions against
Speaker 2: yes Elon Musk and San Francisco's incoming mayor Daniel Lurie
Speaker 2: certainly wants to take advantage of the AI boom for
Speaker 2: the revival of the city, but for him it's more
Speaker 2: than just AI. More on that later this hour. First off, though,
Speaker 2: let's get a check on it Broadcom with Bloomberg's abigailty
Speaker 2: Do a little Hey I we.
Speaker 4: Go, Hey Tim, Yeah, this is a really impressive rally.
Speaker 4: Take a look at the shares of Broadcom, up about
Speaker 4: nineteen percent on the day right near session hives. This
Speaker 4: is a two day chart so that you can really
Speaker 4: see today's spike HIRER. That tells you that investors were
Speaker 4: surprised by the degree of the positivity.
Speaker 2: Coming out of the quarter.
Speaker 4: Now, the quarter they reported was sort of mixed, but
Speaker 4: what investors love it's all about AI. They are saying
Speaker 4: that they can grow AI, their AI part of the
Speaker 4: business in the first quarter by sixty five percent. They're
Speaker 4: also saying by twenty twenty seven, they see that the
Speaker 4: AI components market could be ninety billion dollars. So investors
Speaker 4: absolutely loving this. But this is not the only positive
Speaker 4: day for Broadcom this year. Let's put Broadcom in context
Speaker 4: of one of the most well known AI chip companies,
Speaker 4: and that of course is in Vidia, and then the
Speaker 4: SMP five hundred, excuse me, the socks that chips over
Speaker 4: all index just to see, and here's Broadcom's big spike
Speaker 4: record high today. I think tim based on my work
Speaker 4: in the Bloomberg, I think it may actually be the
Speaker 4: best day ever going back to two thousand and nine,
Speaker 4: and it is trading at a record high. There's NVIDI
Speaker 4: and there's the SMT five hundred. Not so shabby for
Speaker 4: Broadcom this year at all. Today a big piece of
Speaker 4: the rally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, most since going all the way back
Speaker 2: to two thousand and nine. Thanks so much, Av Gail
Speaker 2: do a little appreciate that. Let's get a deeper dive
Speaker 2: into Broadcom with Kun John Sabani of Bloomberg Intelligence. Kuonjohn,
Speaker 2: you joined us live on a Bloomberg BusinessWeek just yesterday.
Speaker 2: As Broadcom's numbers broke, shares bounced around up two percent
Speaker 2: even when negative. What happened on the earnings call that
Speaker 2: gave investors the conviction to send shares hired by twenty percent,
Speaker 2: giving Broadcom a market cap of a trillion dollars for
Speaker 2: the first time ever.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was really that massive sixty to ninety billion
Speaker 5: sam by twenty twenty seven, just across three of its
Speaker 5: largest hyper sale customers. That's about three to four times
Speaker 5: fold growth in over the three years. So what it
Speaker 5: did is give investors there is a clear, quantifiable target
Speaker 5: to focus on over the next three years instead of
Speaker 5: constantly worrying about the near term. How's the next water
Speaker 5: going to look like? How's the next year going to
Speaker 5: look like?
Speaker 2: Kunjohn. Ai revenue grew two hundred and twenty percent during
Speaker 2: the year. It was fueled by demand for processors and
Speaker 2: networking components. Hottan said that on the call, demand for
Speaker 2: non AI chips, though we'll be down in the first quarter,
Speaker 2: our investors should investors just kind of right off non
Speaker 2: AI chips at this point.
Speaker 5: At this point they should, especially given the growth rates
Speaker 5: he is given for the AI business. I mean, look,
Speaker 5: the AI business is going to grow to be the
Speaker 5: majority of portion. I think the non AI business right
Speaker 5: now sort of twenty percent of that will continue even
Speaker 5: shrinking down. So if we didn't have those massive temps, yes,
Speaker 5: people would have looked at what's happened in wireless, what's
Speaker 5: happening with software, what's happening in one que slowing down?
Speaker 5: But at this point all of those worries are out
Speaker 5: the window.
Speaker 2: Kun John Sabani of Bloomberg Intelligence out there in San Francisco,
Speaker 2: thanks so much from more on broad in the company's
Speaker 2: nearly one hundred percent rallies so far this year. We're
Speaker 2: joined by Bloomberg's Ian King Ian. One of the ways
Speaker 2: that hog ten has been able to build Broadcom into
Speaker 2: one of the most valuable companies in the chip industry
Speaker 2: is through acquisitions. Does this trend continue? I mean, he
Speaker 2: was asked about that.
Speaker 6: He said he was asked, look, hey, Hawk, you've got
Speaker 6: a lot of cash. Does that mean you're getting ready
Speaker 6: to do another big one? And they said no, no,
Speaker 6: we're going to focus on bringing down our debt. But
Speaker 6: then later on in Nicoll he was asked, well, does
Speaker 6: this mean your your strategy of making acquisitions is the
Speaker 6: thing of the past, that you're going to focus on
Speaker 6: organic growth in AI And he was like, oh no,
Speaker 6: we're still looking so kind of beast message there.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what kind of companies have they acquired in
Speaker 2: the past and what kind of companies could potentially be
Speaker 2: on their radar?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean they've they've gone through the whole Panoplio
Speaker 6: that they started off in semiconduct has he acquires what
Speaker 6: he calls franchises. These are really sort of long standing,
Speaker 6: important parts of the industry that he believes are kind
Speaker 6: of undervalued, and then he kind of strips out, makes
Speaker 6: them sort of lean and mean again, and that's been
Speaker 6: a really successful policy. And then he took that strategy
Speaker 6: and spun it into software and most recently he went
Speaker 6: for VMware. And what he's going to do next, who knows.
Speaker 6: He said he's open to software and semiconductor. Obviously, all
Speaker 6: eyes are on Intel right now and whether this is
Speaker 6: something which might figure into his calculations.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's a perfect segue. Let's go to Intel
Speaker 2: right now, because CFO Dave Disner said that a formal
Speaker 2: separation of the company's factory and product development divisions is
Speaker 2: an open question. It'll be decided by the next leader
Speaker 2: of the company. Ian I thought that this had been
Speaker 2: kind of put to bed and Intel was going to
Speaker 2: stay the type of company that it's been for over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years. What's the latest time in it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, it had been put to bed by Pat Gelsinger.
Speaker 6: Unfortunately for him, he's not in that job anymore. Right,
Speaker 6: he's not in a position to say he said, stronger together,
Speaker 6: better together. One of the co CEO replacements, Michelle Johnson
Speaker 6: hold House, who was on stage as well, said yeah, no, yeah,
Speaker 6: we think we're matched together. But both her and Dave's instner,
Speaker 6: the CFO and COCO said yeah, but you know, it's
Speaker 6: not our call. We'll see what happens, And that, really,
Speaker 6: I guess in Wall Street's minds kind of opened the
Speaker 6: door to this being a much more firm possibility.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what part of the company could be spun off?
Speaker 2: Where could that company go? Would it be a public company,
Speaker 2: would Broadcom be interested in part of the company? What
Speaker 2: do you see? Yeah?
Speaker 6: I mean, the focus was on what happens to the
Speaker 6: product side of the company and the manufacturing side of
Speaker 6: the company, that perhaps these two entities become something separate. Frankly,
Speaker 6: the manufacturing side right now is piling on the losses.
Speaker 6: It's really not in a financial position that would make
Speaker 6: an IPO even a vague possibility right now and probably
Speaker 6: not for you know, a matter of years while it
Speaker 6: tries to build up its presence with outside customers. That's
Speaker 6: not really an option. That would have to be new ownership,
Speaker 6: new ownership with very deep pockets. Whether that's Broadcom or
Speaker 6: anybody else, we don't know. The product side is arguably
Speaker 6: a bit more healthy, particularly in PCs. It might be
Speaker 6: something that somebody like Qualcom or Broadcom might.
Speaker 2: See a useful Okay, well, certainly, busy days ahead for
Speaker 2: Ian King and for all of us. Ian King certainly
Speaker 2: appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much. Let's continue the
Speaker 2: conversation with epac Oscar Deshkai, a senior analyst over at
Speaker 2: Swiss Code. It's a banking group specializing in providing online
Speaker 2: financial and trading services. EPEC record highs for Broadcom, our
Speaker 2: Bel Technology, and this week for meta platforms, Apple, Alphabet, Tesla,
Speaker 2: the names continue. What inning are we in in your
Speaker 2: view when it comes to this megacap tech bull.
Speaker 7: Run, Well, absolutely well, good news keep coming in and
Speaker 7: they actually fund this rally and extend. Really they do
Speaker 7: justify the extension of the rally for Broadcom, for example, Well,
Speaker 7: they actually announce a revenue growth for the AI business
Speaker 7: of two hundred and twenty percent. They are looking for
Speaker 7: sixty five percent growth in their revenue in the first quartum.
Speaker 7: Those are the big, big numbers that we are used
Speaker 7: to that we like, especially in the AI and technology stock.
Speaker 7: So that's actually giving a boost to the companies and
Speaker 7: to Com today.
Speaker 8: Well, we are also.
Speaker 7: Very much impressed by cooms projection of a boom in
Speaker 7: their AI business, especially the custom AI chips in the
Speaker 7: next few years. That actually fits exactly right in the
Speaker 7: middle of this narrative that's unfolding right now that the
Speaker 7: big technology companies are actually building their own chips, so
Speaker 7: that means that they are going to be users and
Speaker 7: they're going to be winners. So we expect to see
Speaker 7: still a little change of the scenery when twenty twenty
Speaker 7: five begins.
Speaker 2: Okay, you mentioned there will be winners and there will
Speaker 2: be losers. Let's start with the losers. Who are they
Speaker 2: going to be?
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't want to say losers. Nvidia is
Speaker 7: not smiling today, and they are right because we are
Speaker 7: now in this narrative of big technology companies, which actually
Speaker 7: made up to fifty percent of its revenue last quarter,
Speaker 7: trying to build their own chips. So we're talking about
Speaker 7: Amazon with their Trainium chips. Google came out with his
Speaker 7: own I mean, everybody is up now building their own
Speaker 7: chips in order to well cost efficient for cost efficiency reason.
Speaker 7: So this means that Nvidia will have to replace these
Speaker 7: big technology companies by other customers. Now, we know that
Speaker 7: Jensen one didn't look worried at all up until now,
Speaker 7: but that's still a fly.
Speaker 2: So are you saying that that folks who have ridden
Speaker 2: this high for Nvidia should be thinking about getting out
Speaker 2: at some point soon.
Speaker 7: Well, I want to say that right now, because these
Speaker 7: worries of big technology companies that will start slowing their
Speaker 7: spending has not materialized just yet, because earlier this week
Speaker 7: we had TSM sales numbers for November and they actually
Speaker 7: announced a thirty four percent growth in their sales in November,
Speaker 7: which actually continues to back this narrative of robust AI
Speaker 7: demand for Nvidia's chips. But it is a certainty that
Speaker 7: this high concentration of big technology companies in their client
Speaker 7: book is something to be watched.
Speaker 2: Okay, we know you've mentioned in video and not a
Speaker 2: company that should be smiling today Broadcom certainly one that is,
Speaker 2: what are the other names that you're bullish on going
Speaker 2: into twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7: Well, AMD is not smiling today, But we actually like
Speaker 7: AMD for one particular reason, and is the fact that
Speaker 7: AMD proposes cost efficient and more affordable but as efficient
Speaker 7: as efficient, very efficient chips and that could actually be
Speaker 7: interesting for those sectors and companies who do not necessarily
Speaker 7: want the most premium chips out there, but who want
Speaker 7: good chips sale for you know, doing their day to
Speaker 7: day task with AI. And that's going to be very interesting.
Speaker 7: We think that there is an opportune to window for
Speaker 7: AMD to get into this race more seriously and well,
Speaker 7: question the the NVIDIAs or eat a part of mvda's
Speaker 7: cake in the coming years.
Speaker 2: A lot of the exuberance around AI has certainly focused
Speaker 2: on the chip companies, but what if we move beyond
Speaker 2: those chip companies. Who else do you see as winners
Speaker 2: when it comes to this boom and AI.
Speaker 7: Well, actually we see, for example, well we see all
Speaker 7: the clients as winners because they are going to get
Speaker 7: an important part of their important efficiency and cost efficiencies
Speaker 7: in this process. So this is obviously one thing, and
Speaker 7: this is why this whole thing is happening. But we're
Speaker 7: also looking very closely to what's happening in the energy sector,
Speaker 7: and we think that the nuclear power providers are going
Speaker 7: to be in a good position to benefit from the
Speaker 7: ar really, given that it is clear right now that
Speaker 7: the alternative energy sources like wind and solar are not
Speaker 7: going to offer the enough scalability actually for satisfying all
Speaker 7: these exponentially arising energy demands.
Speaker 2: Nuclear power so little intensive to develop, especially here in
Speaker 2: the United States, We've only had a couple new generators
Speaker 2: come online over the last couple of decades. Who do
Speaker 2: you think can pull this off in the next few
Speaker 2: years or are we talking like a generational shift here.
Speaker 7: Well, yes, you're right. It has been controversial as well,
Speaker 7: so it's here in Europe as well. We have been
Speaker 7: closing the nuclear plans and not to the contrary. But
Speaker 7: this year we have started seeing the mentality change a
Speaker 7: little bit, especially when big technology companies started announcing that
Speaker 7: they are going to be interested in using nuclear power
Speaker 7: instead of while using fossil fuel or fossil well, actually,
Speaker 7: excell as, it was saying that they are going to
Speaker 7: offer gas for gas powered plans to big technology companies
Speaker 7: that's going to be built in half time, like in
Speaker 7: five years, and they're going to offer these companies and
Speaker 7: after good energy source. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 7: when we are talking about tackling climate change and offering
Speaker 7: an alternative and clean energy source, well, today nuclear looks
Speaker 7: like the only plausable option that could satisfy our increasing
Speaker 7: and exponentially increasing needs.
Speaker 2: May pec Oscar Deshkaia, senior analyst at Swiss Quote joining
Speaker 2: us from Geneva, thanks for standing up late for us.
Speaker 2: Do appreciate that Jeff Bezos is expected to meet with
Speaker 2: President elect Tromp to discuss Amazon's Project Kuiper. It's a
Speaker 2: satellite Internet service that is facing delays and cost overruns.
Speaker 2: Bezos look into the new administration for help in the
Speaker 2: space race against fellow cent a billionaire Elon Musk. Bloomberg's
Speaker 2: Bruce Einhorn joins US now Bruce. Project Kuiper supposed to
Speaker 2: be this competitor to SpaceX's Starlink. Is it fair at
Speaker 2: this point to even call it a competitor.
Speaker 9: Well, it aspires to be, but at the moment it's
Speaker 9: not there yet. So Starlink has more than six thousand
Speaker 9: satellites operating, providing high speed Internet service around the world.
Speaker 9: Amazon wants Project hyper to do something similar. The original
Speaker 9: goal was to have the first batch of operational satellites
Speaker 9: launch first half of this year, and by this time
Speaker 9: they would have beta service starting. They've encountered delays though
Speaker 9: in launching the satellites. They're now looking to launch the
Speaker 9: first batch of satellites early next year and then have
Speaker 9: service starting later in the year. The big problem for
Speaker 9: them is, well, one big problem is that they do
Speaker 9: have a deadline that they received from the Federal Communications
Speaker 9: Commission when they first got the license for this back
Speaker 9: in twenty twenty. They need to have half of their satellites.
Speaker 9: It's over sixteen hundred satellites up and operating by the
Speaker 9: middle of July, I mean by middle of twenty twenty six,
Speaker 9: July twenty twenty six. They don't get that, then they're
Speaker 9: going to need the FCC to give them an extension,
Speaker 9: to give them a waiver.
Speaker 2: One challenge is get those satellites into orbit. Blue Origin
Speaker 2: is certainly a possibility, but if they can't pull it off,
Speaker 2: can they rely on SpaceX to do this? Would that
Speaker 2: ever happen?
Speaker 9: While they do have a contract with SpaceX to launch
Speaker 9: on I think three SpaceX rockets, but that's just a
Speaker 9: tiny part of their total launch needs. So for the
Speaker 9: most part, Amazon is looking to new rockets from Blue Origin,
Speaker 9: which is Jeff Bezos founded company, as well as europe
Speaker 9: Arian Spots and United Launch Alliance, which is joint venture
Speaker 9: between Boeing and Lockheed Martin. The challenge though, is that
Speaker 9: those three companies all have new rockets. Among the three
Speaker 9: of them, those rockets have launched a total of three times,
Speaker 9: so they don't really have a huge track record, and
Speaker 9: it takes a while to get rockets up and going
Speaker 9: to a frequent, frequent launch schedule. So it's a big
Speaker 9: challenge that they face. On the other Cant of course,
Speaker 9: has its own rockets. They don't have to worry about
Speaker 9: it exactly. And it seems like, speaking of SpaceX, Elon
Speaker 9: Musk and President elect Trump are extremely tight. After what
Speaker 9: happened over the last few months and the more than
Speaker 9: two hundred million dollars Musk spent to help get Trump elected.
Speaker 9: How bad is that for Jeff Bezos. Well, of course,
Speaker 9: Musk and the President elect are very close. President Trump
Speaker 9: during his first term did have some run ins with
Speaker 9: Jeff Bezos. There was some criticism from the president of
Speaker 9: Jeff Bezos, who of course owns the Washington Post. Amazon
Speaker 9: did go to court in the first Trump administration alleging
Speaker 9: unfair treatment of the company, saying that they had been
Speaker 9: cut out of a contract with the Defense Department. So
Speaker 9: there is history there. More recently, we have seen pretty
Speaker 9: upby comments from Jeff Bezos about the President elect and
Speaker 9: the new administration.
Speaker 2: Bruse ein Horn, thanks so much for joining us. Do
Speaker 2: appreciate that today. Well, speaking of another story that we
Speaker 2: are watching, Elon Musk looking to transform his SpaceX Star
Speaker 2: based site into a new city. The site in Boca Chica,
Speaker 2: Texas currently the primary location for building and launching SpaceX's
Speaker 2: Starship Rockets, and it's created over three thousand jobs. Several
Speaker 2: steps need to occur before Starbase can be created as
Speaker 2: a new city, including permission from local authorities. Coming up,
Speaker 2: we'll discuss the intersection of AI and sports with the
Speaker 2: CEO of VM. That's next. This is Bloomberg. A new
Speaker 2: partnership could change the way millions of fans experience live
Speaker 2: sports around the world. New York Islanders and Ubs Arena
Speaker 2: have teamed up with VM to develop quick Q. It's
Speaker 2: a tool that directs fans to the shortest lines so
Speaker 2: then can get back to their seats as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: The company putting AI into action and other industries too,
Speaker 2: including marine manufacturing, robotics, as well as food and beverage.
Speaker 2: Here with us is Elliott Horow, a CEO and founder
Speaker 2: at VM. Elliott, good to see you. I want to
Speaker 2: get to the Ubs are in a partnership in a minute.
Speaker 2: But you co founded Mango dB. Before that, you co
Speaker 2: founded shop Wiki. This is not your first rodeo. What's
Speaker 2: the problem that you identified that VM would solve?
Speaker 10: Well, thanks for having us, Tim So the problem that
Speaker 10: I was focused on after I thus Mango dB, it
Speaker 10: was all about physical.
Speaker 2: Devices in the real world. Right.
Speaker 10: We all live in the real world. We all want
Speaker 10: to have the real world be better for us in
Speaker 10: whatever way, and so we built VM to be an
Speaker 10: engineering platform for physical devices.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 10: And that's from air conditioners in your house to robots
Speaker 10: on a factory floor.
Speaker 12: Right.
Speaker 10: It's all about making it easier to build these products.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 10: You need a lot of different engineering counts to make
Speaker 10: that happen, from software engineers to mechanical engineers to AI engineers.
Speaker 10: So how do you make a platform that makes it
Speaker 10: ten times easier to bring these products to life?
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's get to this UBS partnership. The idea
Speaker 2: is you're watching an Islanders game, You've got to use
Speaker 2: the restroom. You can tell by opening the Islanders app
Speaker 2: where to go and how long it'll take exactly right.
Speaker 10: The Islanders, the Islanders ownership and you know John the
Speaker 10: Decky who we partnered with, are all about fan experience, Right.
Speaker 10: How do you have the experience of going to an
Speaker 10: Islanders game, going to any event at UBS arena be
Speaker 10: as great as possible? And so the biggest problem with
Speaker 10: one of the biggest problems with going to a game
Speaker 10: is when do I go to the bathroom? How do
Speaker 10: I have to wait in line? And so you can
Speaker 10: open up the Islanders app and see immediately which bathrooms
Speaker 10: have the shortest line, if there's a line right now,
Speaker 10: and so you can know when to go, where to
Speaker 10: go and make that part of the experience much better.
Speaker 2: What's the hardware that has to be installed at ubs
Speaker 2: arena in order to make this happen.
Speaker 10: So one of the great things we were able to
Speaker 10: do was actually add almost no hardware. Right, We're able
Speaker 10: to add this to the existing security cameras that they
Speaker 10: already had in place, you know, just monitoring for security
Speaker 10: and safety around the arena, and so to tap into
Speaker 10: the existing cameras and just look at those cameras and
Speaker 10: determine what the line was for the bathrooms.
Speaker 2: So what's the tech layer there?
Speaker 10: So the entire tech layer is the existing security cameras
Speaker 10: and then just VM outside of that, Right, So VM
Speaker 10: is tapping into those existing cameras, looking at those feeds
Speaker 10: in real time, doing AI actually in the arena itself,
Speaker 10: and then pushing that data to the Islanders up.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk fundraising here. You've raised just shy of
Speaker 2: ninety million dollars at this point. How long does that
Speaker 2: runway give you? When do you need to raise more money?
Speaker 10: We're always talking to investors about raising more money.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 10: One of the things about VM is we're not a
Speaker 10: lacking ambition company, right. We're thinking about everything from in
Speaker 10: your house again to arenas, lots of things we want
Speaker 10: to do about fan experience and lots of arenas, but
Speaker 10: then also everything to cleaning oceans, and so we will
Speaker 10: be raising more money and we're doing a lot of
Speaker 10: interesting projects all over the place.
Speaker 2: Are you actively raising money at this point? Like, are
Speaker 2: you out there talking to investors right now? I mean
Speaker 2: I talk to investors probably every week. Are they give
Speaker 2: you are you getting incoming though? Are they saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we want to give you money? Is that the environment
Speaker 2: out there? There's a lot of you You have a
Speaker 2: strong track record too, right, And there's a.
Speaker 10: Lot of interest in physical devices, physical world and AI right.
Speaker 10: And we're taking a pretty unique approach, and we're really
Speaker 10: focused on short term wins and how do people make
Speaker 10: practical things better on an everyday basis?
Speaker 2: What do you envision for the home. That really intrigues me.
Speaker 2: What's in your perfect world do you imagine happening with
Speaker 2: VM in the home.
Speaker 10: I think a lot of people have something in their
Speaker 10: house that is somewhat smart, right, Maybe it's an air
Speaker 10: conditioning system that's supposed to adjust the temperatures, or lights
Speaker 10: that are supposed to be smart, or even just devices
Speaker 10: that aren't smart, like an old air conditioner. Most of
Speaker 10: those aren't very smart and really aren't great user experiences.
Speaker 10: Or the number of people who've come to me and said, yeah,
Speaker 10: my air conditioner broke down in August, I'm like, why
Speaker 10: did that happen?
Speaker 2: Why don't you know that it's going to break down?
Speaker 10: When an air conditioner breaks, someone usually come to your house,
Speaker 10: look at it, and then maybe go and get another part.
Speaker 10: Why can't they have a computer that's always attached to
Speaker 10: the air conditioner, always monitoring the air conditioner, so they
Speaker 10: know exactly what part they need, and we can tell
Speaker 10: you ahead of time, like, Hey, it's getting noisier, it's
Speaker 10: starting to rattle, it's probably going to break in two weeks.
Speaker 10: Should we become fixed it before you're stuck with no
Speaker 10: AC and it's one hundred degrees outside, right, those sort
Speaker 10: of very practical, real world things that just get in
Speaker 10: the way of day to day life.
Speaker 2: We had to get a new washing machine in dry
Speaker 2: and it's supposed to connect to the internet. It doesn't
Speaker 2: even connect to the internet, right.
Speaker 10: And this is what we hear over and over again
Speaker 10: is that building devices right now is just simply too hard. Right,
Speaker 10: It's too hard to connect these devices in your house
Speaker 10: and in the real world to AI.
Speaker 2: Elliott Horowitz, CEO and founder at VM joining us here
Speaker 2: in New York. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Tim
Speaker 2: Stenevek in New York. Let's get a check on the markets.
Speaker 2: Taking a look at what's going on on a with Broadcom.
Speaker 2: Look at that shares up right now, close to twenty percent.
Speaker 2: Two hundred and fifteen dollars is where it's trading at
Speaker 2: right now. WISES High is twenty two percent a little
Speaker 2: earlier in the session, surging today to a one trillion
Speaker 2: dollar market cap for the first time ever. After predicting
Speaker 2: a boom in demand for its AI chip. Sales of
Speaker 2: AI products are going to gain sixty five percent in
Speaker 2: the fiscal first quarter. That's far faster than its overall
Speaker 2: semiconductor growth of about ten percent. The chip maker also
Speaker 2: predicting that the dressful market for AI components that it
Speaker 2: designs for those data centers, those hyperscalers would reach as
Speaker 2: high as ninety billion dollars by fiscal twenty twenty seven. Also,
Speaker 2: let's take a look at what shares of Tesla not
Speaker 2: just doing today, which yes, they're at a new record,
Speaker 2: but over the last couple of months, they've almost doubled
Speaker 2: in value since the election. Today's news is that the
Speaker 2: Trump administration transition team could scrap an order that requires
Speaker 2: car makers to report crashes involving self driving systems that
Speaker 2: coming from Reuter's a little earlier in the day. Certainly,
Speaker 2: those who've bet on Tesla over the last couple of
Speaker 2: months and even before that, have gotten big payoffs. Well,
Speaker 2: let's keep digging into the Musk trade now, because as
Speaker 2: I mentioned, those who've bet on Elon Musk's business empire
Speaker 2: are closing out in the year with some hefty payoffs.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Nitsa Soakova looks into this for usdnitsa good to
Speaker 2: see you give us an understanding of we've stuck by
Speaker 2: Elon Musk over the past few years and how their
Speaker 2: payoff looks at the end of this year.
Speaker 8: Yeah, for sure. We have quite a few funds who
Speaker 8: had placed big bets on in one Musk, which I
Speaker 8: can imagine for the start of the year it wasn't
Speaker 8: really a great performance, but now we're seeing really rapid
Speaker 8: shifting fortituns. We of course love to talk about Destney
Speaker 8: Tech one hundred, which is one of the few funds
Speaker 8: who has so much exposure to SpaceX. That fund has
Speaker 8: sold more than five hundred percent since the election. Just
Speaker 8: incredible rally. This is both due to the price of
Speaker 8: the underlying growing, but more importantly it's due to the
Speaker 8: very big demand we're seeing from retail traders, and they're
Speaker 8: paying ten times more than the actual price of the
Speaker 8: underlying assets, so there is definitely a chase to do that.
Speaker 8: We also have a few big names like traditional stock
Speaker 8: pickers like Ron Barron, which famously bets on Tessa. He
Speaker 8: invests in SpaceX, and he was actually flat on the year,
Speaker 8: and just in a couple of weeks now he's up
Speaker 8: forty percent on the year, So really massive change for
Speaker 8: everyone who placed the boat bet on anything New and Musk.
Speaker 2: I wonder to what extent. This depends on a close
Speaker 2: relationship with the president elect and what happens if this
Speaker 2: relationship sours given the increase that we've seen in such
Speaker 2: a short time, for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of the speculation, a lot of the
Speaker 1: rally we have seen lately, it is based on the
Speaker 1: new cycle we've seen. We've seen obviously SpaceX get a
Speaker 1: lot of its contracts, our government contracts, so you can imagine.
Speaker 8: People are quite happy with that. Even the elimination of
Speaker 8: the tax credits for electric vehicles, which came as news,
Speaker 8: a lot of people are thinking that's going to be
Speaker 8: favorable for tests. So a lot of the incoming administration
Speaker 8: news cycles we have seen has been perceived to be
Speaker 8: quite favorable for those companies. And you can imagine, like
Speaker 8: more broadly, the rally, we're seeing a little bit of
Speaker 8: a stop in the moment. We're seeing a lot of
Speaker 8: the big company struggle. But Teslo continues to score gains,
Speaker 8: and the gains have been incredible. Tesso has added more
Speaker 8: than five hundred billions. Is the election just incredible rallity?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. And Elon Musk of course remains
Speaker 2: the world's wealthiest person. But sur past four hundred billion
Speaker 2: dollars in net Worth just this week, Dniita Sikova. Always
Speaker 2: appreciate you joining us, Thanks so much well. Elon Musk's
Speaker 2: influence looms large on the next administration, even heading the
Speaker 2: newly created Department of Government Efficiency. Yes, we know what's
Speaker 2: called DOGE. With the incoming Trump administration showing strong support
Speaker 2: for crypto, let's bring in Aya Kantarovich, co CEO and
Speaker 2: co founder of the digital assets management platform August for
Speaker 2: her read on crypto markets in at twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: So the amazing run up that we've seen in many
Speaker 2: different cryptocurrencies, but namely Bitcoin, over the last few months
Speaker 2: has been on hopes of a Trump administration that is
Speaker 2: more lenient when it comes to regulations. So that's the hope.
Speaker 2: Now the administration has to deliver. What do you want
Speaker 2: to say, Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 11: We even saw it yesterday with Trump at the New
Speaker 11: York Stock Exchange. He mentioned that he wants the United
Speaker 11: States to be the number one leader in cryptocurrency in
Speaker 11: the world. That's a very different narrative than what we've
Speaker 11: seen in the last four years. We've also seen the
Speaker 11: Trump administration anchor on this one hundred and fifty k
Speaker 11: bitcoin price, and so we've seen, you know, markets respond
Speaker 11: to that. We've seen a lot of option call buyers
Speaker 11: with March twenty twenty five expirees, and so really a
Speaker 11: lot of people, as you mentioned, are kind of basing
Speaker 11: their expectation on a much more favorable administration. Now that
Speaker 11: can be you know, many subsets. We see Paul Atkins
Speaker 11: coming in as the SEC Chairman and commissioner, and that
Speaker 11: is going to be very positive for crypto companies that
Speaker 11: are centralized. We still need to see what that means
Speaker 11: for decentralized finance as well, especially as it pertains to
Speaker 11: KISEE sanctions. But overall, it really does mean that the
Speaker 11: narrative is front and center, and you're seeing that momentum
Speaker 11: in ETF inflows.
Speaker 2: Does it seem like the wild like it could become
Speaker 2: the wild West? To you?
Speaker 11: We're very much hoping that we're actually going to get
Speaker 11: very clear guidelines and I think that's one of the
Speaker 11: main pieces of also having a role within the White
Speaker 11: House that is focused on crypto. You know, you have
Speaker 11: David Zachs who's going to be spearheading a lot of
Speaker 11: that and what we're actually looking to get from that,
Speaker 11: I mean, he's invested in a bunch of these companies,
Speaker 11: is actually rules and regulations on what we need to do.
Speaker 2: Do you see that as a conflict of interest that
Speaker 2: he's invested in a lot of these companies, but he's
Speaker 2: going to help advise the President and at least people
Speaker 2: in the White House on making rules around these I.
Speaker 11: Think you could probably say that about you know, a
Speaker 11: couple people that you know are advising in the administration.
Speaker 11: But that said, you know, you still need to have
Speaker 11: all of this get approved by Congress. You need to
Speaker 11: have it approved also on a state level, and so
Speaker 11: you're seeing a lot of states actually start to jumpstart this.
Speaker 11: And so you're seeing states such as Texas most recently
Speaker 11: this week, say that they want to have bitcoin as
Speaker 11: a reserve currency for the state. The US has spoken
Speaker 11: about it. You're seeing a number of states now four
Speaker 11: actually say that they're going to go ahead and do that.
Speaker 11: And so I think you'll see a lot of the
Speaker 11: checks and balances on both a state and federal level,
Speaker 11: and we're excited to see that play out.
Speaker 2: And recent Horowitz is crypto policy lead Brian Quintez is
Speaker 2: a top contender to lead the CFTC under President lex Trump.
Speaker 2: What kind of role do you see that he would
Speaker 2: play in shaping cryptopolicy.
Speaker 11: He's been pretty favorable in both what he said very
Speaker 11: publicly and also in the guidance that he's given for
Speaker 11: a lot of the A sixteen Z companies. For example,
Speaker 11: UNISWAP is one of the largest ones that's a decentralized
Speaker 11: exchange platform. It touches a number of users, and I
Speaker 11: think what you'll see is that a lot of these
Speaker 11: currencies will fall under the CFDC. CFDC has given very
Speaker 11: clear guidelines and so we're very excited to continue to
Speaker 11: push in partnership with them.
Speaker 2: Are you concerned that there could be clear winners and
Speaker 2: losers here given that there are people from certain venture
Speaker 2: capital firms who have the presidentallex Ear, Elon Musk has
Speaker 2: the president of x ear, but not everybody is going
Speaker 2: to have his ear. Are there are there going to
Speaker 2: be clear winners and losers as a result of who
Speaker 2: has access.
Speaker 11: That's a very very good question, and I think it
Speaker 11: still boils down to what are the guidelines and rules?
Speaker 11: So if you do pick, you know, call it a
Speaker 11: clear winner based on someone's relationship with a specific company
Speaker 11: or their previous investments. It really depends on why is
Speaker 11: it a commodity? Is it a security? And then boiling
Speaker 11: that down and then we can take that guideline and
Speaker 11: apply that to many other winners as well.
Speaker 2: Ayah, what happens if there is some sort of meltdown
Speaker 2: akin to what we saw at FTX two years ago
Speaker 2: in the coming years and you see a large number
Speaker 2: of people who have holdings of cryptocurrencies get burned. Maybe
Speaker 2: it's the result of a more lax regulatory environment. The
Speaker 2: whole idea with regulations is these are supposed to be
Speaker 2: guardrails and protect consumers. Does this whole thing backfire if
Speaker 2: consumers get burned?
Speaker 11: So my personal opinion, and I think that of the
Speaker 11: industry is not a lot of the things that happened
Speaker 11: with FTX were personal people issues and people management issues
Speaker 11: and lack of operational back end systems in order that
Speaker 11: you see both in traditional finance but also in centralized exchanges.
Speaker 2: That may be true, but it didn't happen in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: We saw the failure of a lot of crypto firms
Speaker 2: during that time. We saw the real depression of many
Speaker 2: crypto asset prices can one.
Speaker 11: Hundred percent agree. We also saw that in traditional finance
Speaker 11: with our Kegoes for example, and that took down Credit Suite.
Speaker 11: So it's not unique to crypto. These are still financial
Speaker 11: companies and they still require very clear guidelines on operations,
Speaker 11: on people management, and on flow funds. And I think
Speaker 11: what we're going to get from this administration is exactly
Speaker 11: what that needs to look like in the United States.
Speaker 11: We can copypaste that into these companies and then we can,
Speaker 11: you know, with that clear guideline.
Speaker 12: That's the issue.
Speaker 11: Since we don't have the clear guidelines, we don't really
Speaker 11: know how and where to operate, and that creates more confusion.
Speaker 11: Even with less regulation, as long as the guidelines are
Speaker 11: very clear, we can operate within those, hire the right people,
Speaker 11: whether it's for compliance or again back in operations and
Speaker 11: continue forward.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing on August platform right now, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the activity that you see that you can tell
Speaker 2: us about.
Speaker 11: Yes, our volumes have really spiked tremendously. It's very very exciting.
Speaker 11: You know, yields are spiking, and so we're seeing, for example,
Speaker 11: our clients get yields over five percent on bitcoin and
Speaker 11: majors on basis. Right now, we're seeing roughly eleven percent
Speaker 11: for majors, over twenty five percent for some all coins,
Speaker 11: and then even for for example, lending rates for stable coins,
Speaker 11: the seven day average is around sixteen percent. So it's
Speaker 11: really tracting more capital on chain and we're excited to
Speaker 11: continue to see that.
Speaker 2: I always get to see you. Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: stopping by Bloomberg HQ. That's August CEO Aya Kantorovitch joining
Speaker 2: us here at Bloomberg. Well, coming up, Archer teaming up
Speaker 2: with Anderill. Archer CEO Adam Goldstein joins us. Next for more,
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg. Archer, the electric aircraft maker, has a
Speaker 2: new partnership with defense tech firm Anderill to build a
Speaker 2: hybrid at military aircraft. This as the company also announced
Speaker 2: it has brought in four hundred and thirty million dollars
Speaker 2: from investors including Stillantis and United Airlines. Archer CEO Adam
Speaker 2: Goldstein joins us now. Adam, I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people when they envision Archer, when they hear Archer, they
Speaker 2: think of air taxis, they think of urban mobility. What
Speaker 2: is the opportunity and defense for Archer?
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, I think it's quite common for aircraft manufacturers
Speaker 12: to participate in both the commercial aspects of the industry
Speaker 12: as well as the defense aspects. The commercial side of
Speaker 12: Archer's business has become very mature, and the aircraft is
Speaker 12: in the late stages of its development and certification program,
Speaker 12: and so it was a great opportunity for us to
Speaker 12: really extend and expand our capabilities and move into the
Speaker 12: defense side. And of course partnering with Androl is an
Speaker 12: amazing opportunity as they're the premier defense tech company in
Speaker 12: the world.
Speaker 2: So what does that product look like when it's all
Speaker 2: said and done in partnership with Androl.
Speaker 12: So we're building a hybrid electric vertical takeoff and landing aircraft.
Speaker 12: It will have a lot of the same capabilities that
Speaker 12: you've seen on the commercial side. So these are vehicles
Speaker 12: that can be produced at much lower costs. There are
Speaker 12: vehicles that have low acoustic, low thermal signatures, and so
Speaker 12: applications that will be very helpful towards defense vehicles. I
Speaker 12: think it's also really important to the US Department of
Speaker 12: Defense that we add new capabilities. There's this whole new
Speaker 12: trend in affordable autonomous aircraft that can help bring new
Speaker 12: capabilities but also at the same time dramatically lower costs.
Speaker 2: You've been working with the Department of Defense for a
Speaker 2: few years, going back to twenty twenty one, but now
Speaker 2: you're just creating this separate defense division. Why are you
Speaker 2: doing it now and what's different about defense tech going
Speaker 2: into twenty twenty five. Is this about a new administration?
Speaker 12: Yeah, So Archer has a team of around one thousand people,
Speaker 12: and we've been working for a long time on building
Speaker 12: out the capabilities of our aircraft. As the aircraft matured,
Speaker 12: it allows us to take that platform and build variants
Speaker 12: of it that can be useful across different applications. You
Speaker 12: combine that with the new administration and you have an
Speaker 12: incredible opportunity for us to dramatically expand our business. So
Speaker 12: on the commercial side, it can be certainly very big,
Speaker 12: but it also is for some people hard to define.
Speaker 12: On the defense side, it's very clear that there are
Speaker 12: new needs that the Defense Department is looking for and
Speaker 12: we can certainly fill those as well. So the opportunity
Speaker 12: here really is pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: What's the type of infrastructure that has to be in
Speaker 2: place for the Defense Department at bases here and at
Speaker 2: outposts around the world in order for this product to
Speaker 2: succeed well.
Speaker 12: The beauty is that they're vertical takeoff and landing aircraft,
Speaker 12: which means we don't need runways. And so that's one
Speaker 12: of the big benefits that you can have these aircraft
Speaker 12: that could be utilized across many different applications. So you
Speaker 12: can think about all things that helicopters do, and then
Speaker 12: there's certainly things that you can envision that go beyond
Speaker 12: those use cases. So when you don't need runways, you
Speaker 12: need limited infrastructure.
Speaker 2: I look up at the sky in New York City
Speaker 2: and I see airplanes from bowling In, Airbus and Breyer
Speaker 2: and the like. I still don't see air taxis. When
Speaker 2: will I see air taxis?
Speaker 12: Well, the air taxis will come to the US as
Speaker 12: soon as the regulatory pathway is clear. And one of
Speaker 12: the benefits of the new administration is that they are
Speaker 12: projecting that there will be an easier time to get
Speaker 12: through some of the regulatory pathways. That being said, it
Speaker 12: is still up to Archer to make sure that we
Speaker 12: produce a safe aircraft, and that's where we really focus,
Speaker 12: and I think you'll start to see things sooner than
Speaker 12: you might expect.
Speaker 2: What sooner than you and I expect. What does that
Speaker 2: mean in terms of number of years? Am I counting
Speaker 2: on one hand?
Speaker 13: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 12: Our goal is to have aircraft commercial in the marketplace
Speaker 12: by the end of next year.
Speaker 2: And where would that be.
Speaker 12: Well, the starting point is in the UAE. So the
Speaker 12: UE has created a framework for us to get to
Speaker 12: market by the fourth quarter of next year, and so
Speaker 12: we've been working very closely with the regulators there.
Speaker 2: But I do think you'll start to.
Speaker 12: See an increasing amount of excitement coming from the FAA
Speaker 12: as these products get a lot of hours under them
Speaker 12: in flight tests and really advanced in the certification programs,
Speaker 12: And so my guess it will be a short time
Speaker 12: after to just see these aircraft come to market in
Speaker 12: the US.
Speaker 2: And if they do come or when they do come
Speaker 2: to market in the US, give us a year that
Speaker 2: you think it would happen if all goes according to
Speaker 2: a plan from a regulatory perspective, and where we'll see
Speaker 2: it in the US? What city, what state will this
Speaker 2: happen first?
Speaker 12: Yeah, So we've announced several key markets that are important
Speaker 12: to US. LA is a fantastic market that are over
Speaker 12: five million daily trips that take greater than an hour
Speaker 12: by car going less than twenty miles. So when you
Speaker 12: start to think about that, just the city of La
Speaker 12: alone could be bigger than the entire aviation industry globally.
Speaker 12: And then you start to think about the other big
Speaker 12: markets in the US that we concentrate on New York, Miami,
Speaker 12: and so there's an amazing opportunity here. It's our job
Speaker 12: to build safe aircraft and once the regulators d must safe,
Speaker 12: and that's when we'll ultimately get to market.
Speaker 2: Archer CEO Adam Goldstein, Adam, good to talk to you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for checking in. Do appreciate it. San Francisco has
Speaker 2: been at the center of the boom, yet the city
Speaker 2: still running up against its issues. Locally, Carolin Hyde sat
Speaker 2: down with San Francisco Mayor elect Daniel Lurie to discuss
Speaker 2: the future of the city under the new age of AI.
Speaker 2: This after he assembled a transition team that includes Open
Speaker 2: AI co founder Sam Alman. Check it out.
Speaker 14: Sam Alman has been great as a transition code chair.
Speaker 14: We are committed to leaning into being the home of AI.
Speaker 14: We have historic investments already here in San Francisco. We're
Speaker 14: going to continue to lean in not only AI, not
Speaker 14: only technology, but really once again being the epicenter for
Speaker 14: business again. There is no better place to do business
Speaker 14: on the globe than San Francisco when we're at our best.
Speaker 14: But it's not just about business. It's about bringing our
Speaker 14: arts and culture back to San Francisco, because that's where people.
Speaker 14: When people think of San Francisco, they think of culture.
Speaker 14: They think that everything starts here. Yes, I started here
Speaker 14: and we wanted to grow here, but we kind of
Speaker 14: want the best of everything coming back to San Francisco.
Speaker 15: I mean, you're someone who knows well how to make
Speaker 15: cultural events bound together, big cultural movement benefit concert raise
Speaker 15: seventeen million dollars. You've done other philanthropic work. But you're
Speaker 15: also from a business dynasty of Levi and what parts
Speaker 15: of industry do you want to cultivate here? You just
Speaker 15: mentioned financial services there, you mentioned sports, but it's going
Speaker 15: to be broader than that.
Speaker 14: Absolutely, we are calling healthcare executives, biotech AI, we want
Speaker 14: real estate thinking that San Francisco is a place that
Speaker 14: they want to invest in again. Because when you get
Speaker 14: these business leaders back, what that tells me is that
Speaker 14: we get the small businesses back to San Francisco, back
Speaker 14: thriving again.
Speaker 2: That was San Francisco's Mayor elect Daniel Lurie with Caroline
Speaker 2: Hyde there and from San Francisco to Boston. Liquid AI
Speaker 2: and MIT spinoff designing AI systems inspired by the tiny
Speaker 2: brains of a worm, set to raise two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars in funding at a two point three
Speaker 2: billion dollar valuation Bloomberg. Sharen Gafari joins US now for
Speaker 2: moreen neural networks. Typically they're modeled after, you know, the
Speaker 2: old human brain. These things that have proved to work
Speaker 2: really well. What's up with worm brains? Why is this
Speaker 2: an exciting new frontier? That's right.
Speaker 13: So the neural networks of power things like chat ship
Speaker 13: tee that we all use are loosely modeled off of
Speaker 13: a human brain. However, there's a lot of complexities there.
Speaker 13: The human brain has a lot of neurons. It's difficult
Speaker 13: to understand. And so the idea is that a worm brain,
Speaker 13: if you can still get some reasoning out of it,
Speaker 13: might be simpler and actually more intuitive to study than
Speaker 13: a more complex human brain like system.
Speaker 2: But I thought worms were again not here. Not to
Speaker 2: be a biologist, but aren't worms the type of creatures
Speaker 2: that are incredibly simple and don't necessarily have reasoning capabilities
Speaker 2: akin to other animals let's say a pig, for example.
Speaker 2: Could a neural network designed after a worm brain actually
Speaker 2: bring us in terms of AI?
Speaker 13: Yeah, Look, it is still you know, experimental technology that
Speaker 13: they're stealing up, but actually in some early research that
Speaker 13: the founders did, they were showing that potentially this kind
Speaker 13: of tech could be used to steer self driving cars
Speaker 13: to help analyze that data. So there's big potential here
Speaker 13: and you always have to be open to exploring you
Speaker 13: and sometimes kind of almost incredible sounding models in AI.
Speaker 13: And I think this is a reflection of investor interest
Speaker 13: in going beyond kind of the standard transformer neural network
Speaker 13: type models that we use just.
Speaker 2: Envisioning a worm being driving a self driving car. But
Speaker 2: that's neither here nor there. Some real money coming into
Speaker 2: this in some established companies, not just vcs, but also
Speaker 2: establish publicly traded firms that are betting big on this tech.
Speaker 13: Who's there, that's right, So AMD is a lead investor,
Speaker 13: and you know, again, I think this reflects sort of
Speaker 13: the interests that we're seeing and going beyond what's been
Speaker 13: out there for a while now, which are transformer based models.
Speaker 2: You know, I think what would be sort of the
Speaker 2: test to see when this technology or if this technology works,
Speaker 2: because this is such a hefty valuation for something that
Speaker 2: at this point is in the early stages. Or does
Speaker 2: that just show that there's so much exuberance for AI
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 13: I think the proof will be in the putting about
Speaker 13: these models. You know, there are some early tests that
Speaker 13: they've brun. These are you know, benchmarks that they do internally,
Speaker 13: seeing that on certain tasks this is competitive with some
Speaker 13: of the similar sized, more traditional models out there. But again,
Speaker 13: you know, it's one thing to test something in a lab.
Speaker 13: It's another thing when you go out there and get
Speaker 13: this product in front of people. Is it actually providing value?
Speaker 13: I think that will be the ultimate sign of whether
Speaker 13: this is going to work on a bigger scale.
Speaker 2: Seren, always good to see you, Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: joining us. Thank you, Bumberg Technology, Bloomberg. Serene Gafari here
Speaker 2: in the studio that is going to do it for
Speaker 2: this Faraday edition of a Bloomberg Technology. Don't forget to
Speaker 2: check out our podcast. You can find it on the
Speaker 2: terminal as well as online. On Apple, Spotify, and iHeart
Speaker 2: this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 13: Thank you wh