Speaker 1: Col Zone Media book Club book Club book Club Club.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Cool Zone Media Book Club. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Margaret Kildrey. Today I'm taking you on a
Speaker 1: journey of discovery, well discovery about the things that I've
Speaker 1: been researching obsessively for the past several months. I've been
Speaker 1: doing a lot of research for the past few months
Speaker 1: for my podcast about the history of Russia, especially all
Speaker 1: the stuff that led up to the Russian Revolution of
Speaker 1: nineteen seventeen. And there's this one character who's loomed larger
Speaker 1: in the background of that story, larger than any other.
Speaker 1: And it's not Rasputen, it's Leo Tolstoy. Well, he's loomed
Speaker 1: the largest without taking center stage, at least as a
Speaker 1: political thinker. He's loomed really large because Leo Tolstoy, one
Speaker 1: of the most famous novelists of all time, didn't quite
Speaker 1: start the Christian pacifist anarchist movement that was all the
Speaker 1: rage in Russia the nineteenth century, but instead he had
Speaker 1: become its central theorist and the most influential propagandist of it.
Speaker 1: And so he's just like woven his way through all
Speaker 1: of these narratives and soon enough, with Coolson Media book
Speaker 1: Club and with my own cool people did cool stuff,
Speaker 1: I'll be leaving Mother Russia behind and learning about and
Speaker 1: talking about other places. But I figured last week I
Speaker 1: told Cossack fairy tales, and today I'm going to read
Speaker 1: a folk story written by Tolstoy himself that's about the Cossacks,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of about the origin of the Cossacks
Speaker 1: politically within Russia. I found this story from eighteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine in a book called Fables for Children, and if
Speaker 1: this is the stuff that children were reared on, it
Speaker 1: sort of explains a thing or two about how Russia
Speaker 1: went pretty immediately after. It's a story called Yurmak, the
Speaker 1: Conqueror of Siberia. It's set in the sixteenth century in Russia.
Speaker 1: Well it's not Russia at the time, it's Siberia at
Speaker 1: the time time until it becomes Russia that see the
Speaker 1: title conquer Siberias, but a guy who conquered Siberia. I
Speaker 1: like this story one because it's kind of fun, well
Speaker 1: my version of fun, and because I think it's useful
Speaker 1: to help people understand how colonization is older than the
Speaker 1: concepts of the state, how everywhere is conquered in controlled space.
Speaker 1: How capitalism has been part of colonization since before capitalism
Speaker 1: was even a word. And also the story reads is
Speaker 1: something between a Conan and Wild West adventure, only written
Speaker 1: by a Christian anarchist pacifist novelist. In Russia, here it
Speaker 1: is You're Mac the Conqueror of Siberia by Leo Tolstoy.
Speaker 1: In the reign of Ivan Vasilovich the Terrible, there were
Speaker 1: the rich Mertens, the Stroganovs, and they lived in perm
Speaker 1: on the River Kama. They heard that along the River Kama,
Speaker 1: in a circle of one hundred and forty versts of
Speaker 1: verses about two thirds of a mile, there was good land.
Speaker 1: The soil had not been plowed for centuries, the forests
Speaker 1: had not been cut down for centuries. In the forests
Speaker 1: were many wild animals, and along the river fish lakes,
Speaker 1: and no one was living on that land, but only
Speaker 1: Tartars passed through it. The Stroganovs wrote a letter to
Speaker 1: the Tsar, Give us this land, and we will ourselves
Speaker 1: build towns there and gather people and settle them there,
Speaker 1: and will not allow the Tartars to pass through it.
Speaker 1: The Tsar agreed to it and gave them the land.
Speaker 1: The Stroganovs sent out clerks to gather people, and there
Speaker 1: came to them a large number of roving people. Whoever
Speaker 1: came received from the Stroganov's land forest and cattle, and
Speaker 1: no tenant pay was collected. All they had to do
Speaker 1: was live and in the case of need, to go
Speaker 1: out in mass to fight the Tartars. Thus the land
Speaker 1: was settled by Russian people. About twenty years past. The
Speaker 1: Stroganovs grew richer yet, and that land one hundred and
Speaker 1: forty fives surround was not enough for them. They wanted
Speaker 1: to have more land. Still, About one hundred versts from
Speaker 1: them were high mountains, the Ural mountains, and beyond them
Speaker 1: they had heard there was good land, and to that
Speaker 1: land there was no end. This land was ruled by
Speaker 1: a small Siberian prince, Kuchum by name. In former days,
Speaker 1: Kuchum had sworn allegiance to the Russian Tsar, but later
Speaker 1: he began to rebel, and he threatened to destroy Stroganov's towns.
Speaker 1: So the Stroganovs wrote to the Tsar, you have given
Speaker 1: us land, and we have conquered it and turned it
Speaker 1: over to you. Now the Thievish tsarling Kuchum is rebellion
Speaker 1: against you and wants to take that land away and
Speaker 1: ruin us. Command us to take possession of the land
Speaker 1: beyond the Ural mountains. We will conquer Kuchum and bring
Speaker 1: all his land under your rule. The Tsar assented and
Speaker 1: wrote back, if you have sufficient force, take the land
Speaker 1: away from Kuchum, only do not entice many people away
Speaker 1: from Russia. When the Stroganovs got that letter from the Tsar,
Speaker 1: they sent out to collect more people, and they ordered
Speaker 1: them to persuade mostly the Cossacks from Volga and the
Speaker 1: Dawn to come. At that time, many Cossacks were roving
Speaker 1: along the Volga and the Dawn. They used to gather
Speaker 1: in bands of two, three or six hundred men and
Speaker 1: to select an ottoman, and to row down in barges
Speaker 1: to capture ships and rob them. And for the winter
Speaker 1: they stayed in little towns on the shore. The clerks
Speaker 1: arrived at the Volga, and there they asked who the
Speaker 1: famous Cossacks of the region were. They were told, there
Speaker 1: are many Cossacks. It is impossible to live for them.
Speaker 1: There is Mishka, Tchernishenin and Sarasmin. But there's no fiercer
Speaker 1: one than yar Maktimofitch the Ottoman. He has a thousand men,
Speaker 1: and not only the merchants and the people are afraid
Speaker 1: of him. But even the Czarin army does not dare
Speaker 1: to cope with him. And the clerks went to Ermak
Speaker 1: the Ottoman and began to persuade him to go to
Speaker 1: the Stroganovs. Ermak received the clerks, listened to their speeches,
Speaker 1: and promised to come with his people about the time
Speaker 1: of the assumption of the Blessed Virgin. Near the holiday
Speaker 1: of the Assumption, there came to the Stroganov six hundred
Speaker 1: Cossacks with their ottoman Yermak Timofitch, and at first Stroganov
Speaker 1: sent them against their neighboring Tartars. The Cossacks annihilated them. Then,
Speaker 1: when nothing was doing, the Cossacks roved in the neighborhood
Speaker 1: and robbed. So Stroganov sent for Yermach and said, I
Speaker 1: will not keep you any longer if you are going
Speaker 1: to be so wanton. But Jermach said, I do not
Speaker 1: like it myself, but I cannot control my people. They
Speaker 1: are spoiled. Give us work to do so Stroganov said,
Speaker 1: go beyond the Ural and fight the Kuchum and take
Speaker 1: possession of his land. The Tsar will reward you for it,
Speaker 1: and he showed the Tsar's letter to Ermach. Irmach rejoiced
Speaker 1: and collected his men and said, you are shaming me
Speaker 1: before my master. You are robbing without reason. If you
Speaker 1: do not stop, he will drive you away. And where
Speaker 1: will you go? Then at the Volga there is a
Speaker 1: large Tzarin army. We shall be caught, and then we
Speaker 1: shall suffer for our old misdeeds. But if you feel lonesome,
Speaker 1: here is work for you. And he showed them the
Speaker 1: Tsar's letter, in which it was said that Stroganov had
Speaker 1: been permitted to conquer land beyond the Earl. The Cossacks
Speaker 1: had a consultation and agreed to go. Yermak went to Stroganov,
Speaker 1: and they began to deliberate how they had best go.
Speaker 1: They discussed how many barges they needed, how much grain, cattle, guns,
Speaker 1: powder led, how many captive Tartar interpreters, how many foreigners
Speaker 1: as masters of gunnery. Stroganov thought, though it may cost
Speaker 1: me much, I must give them everything, or else they
Speaker 1: will stay here and ruin me. Stroganov agreed to everything,
Speaker 1: gathered what was needed, and fitted out Yermak and the Cossacks.
Speaker 1: On the first of September, the Cossacks rode with Yermak
Speaker 1: up the river to Savayah on thirty two barges with
Speaker 1: twelve men in each. For four days they rode up
Speaker 1: the river, and then they turned into the Seabernaya River.
Speaker 1: Beyond that point it was impossible to navigate. They asked
Speaker 1: the guides and learned that from there they had to
Speaker 1: cross the mountains and walk overland about two hundred versts,
Speaker 1: and then the rivers would begin again. The Cossacks stopped,
Speaker 1: built a town and unloaded all their equipment. They abandoned
Speaker 1: the boats, made carts, put everything upon them, and started
Speaker 1: overland across the mountains. All those places were covered with forests,
Speaker 1: and nobody was living there. They marched for about ten
Speaker 1: days and struck the river Zaranaya. There they stopped again
Speaker 1: and made themselves boats. They landed, they loaded them and
Speaker 1: rowed down the river. They rowed five days, and then
Speaker 1: they came to more cheerful places, meadows, forests, lakes. There
Speaker 1: they had plenty of fish and animals and animals that
Speaker 1: had not been scared by hunters. They rowed another day
Speaker 1: and sailed into the river Tura. Along the Tura, they
Speaker 1: came upon Tartar people and towns. RMK sent some Cossacks
Speaker 1: to take a look at a town to see what
Speaker 1: it was like and whether there was any considerable force
Speaker 1: in it. Twenty cossacks went there, and they frightened all
Speaker 1: the Tartars and seized the whole town and captured all
Speaker 1: the cattle. Some of the Tartars they killed, and others
Speaker 1: they brought back a live. Yurmak asked the Tartars through
Speaker 1: his interpreters what kind of people they were and under
Speaker 1: whose rule they were living. The Tartars said that they
Speaker 1: were in the Siberian Kingdom and that their king was Kuchum.
Speaker 1: Yumak let the Tartars go, but three of the more
Speaker 1: intelligent he took with him to show him the road
Speaker 1: they rode on. The farther they rode, the larger did
Speaker 1: the river grow. And the farther they went, the better
Speaker 1: did the places become. They met more and more people,
Speaker 1: only they were not strong men. And all the towns
Speaker 1: that were near the river, the Cossacks conquered. In one town,
Speaker 1: they captured a large number of Tartars and one old
Speaker 1: man who was held in respect. They asked him what
Speaker 1: kind of a man he was, and he said, I
Speaker 1: am Tazik, a servant of my king Kuchum, who has
Speaker 1: made me a commander in this town. Yermak asked Tazak
Speaker 1: about his king, how far his city of Cyber was,
Speaker 1: whether Kuchum had a large force, whether he had much wealth.
Speaker 1: Tazak told him everything. He said, Kuchum is the first
Speaker 1: king in the world of Cyber is the largest city
Speaker 1: in the world. In that city, he said, there are
Speaker 1: as many people and as many cattle as there are
Speaker 1: stars in the heaven. There is no counting his force,
Speaker 1: and not all the kings in the world can conquer him.
Speaker 1: But you know what can conquer you is advertising gets
Speaker 1: into everyone's heads, slips into the middle of stories. And
Speaker 1: we're back. Yermak said, we Russians have come here to
Speaker 1: conquer your king and take his city and put it
Speaker 1: into the hands of the Russians. Are we have a
Speaker 1: large force. Those who have come with me are only
Speaker 1: the advance guard. Those that are rowing down behind us
Speaker 1: in barges are numberless, and all of them have guns.
Speaker 1: Our guns pierce trees, not like your bows and arrows.
Speaker 1: Just look, and Yrmak fired at a tree and pierced it.
Speaker 1: The Cossacks began and to shoot on all sides. Tazak,
Speaker 1: in fright, fell on his knees. Yrmak said to him,
Speaker 1: go to your king Kutchum and tell him what you
Speaker 1: have seen. Let him surrender, and if he does not,
Speaker 1: we will destroy him. And he dismissed Tazik. The Cossacks
Speaker 1: rode on. They sailed into the river Tobul and were
Speaker 1: getting nearer to the city of Cyber. They sailed up
Speaker 1: a small river, Babasan, and there they saw a small
Speaker 1: town on its bank, and around the town a large
Speaker 1: number of Tartars. They sent an interpreter to the Tartars
Speaker 1: to find out what kind of people they were. The
Speaker 1: interpreter returned and said, that is Kuchum's army that has
Speaker 1: gathered there. The leader of that army is Kuchum's own
Speaker 1: son in law, Mametku. He has commanded me to tell
Speaker 1: you that you must return or else he will destroy you.
Speaker 1: Urmak gathered as Cossacks landed on the bank and began
Speaker 1: to shoot at the Tartars. The moment the Tartars are
Speaker 1: the shooting, they began to run. The Cossacks ran after
Speaker 1: them and killed some and captured others. Mametku barely escaped.
Speaker 1: The Cossacks sailed on. They sailed into a broad rapid river,
Speaker 1: the irtysh Down Irtysh River. They sailed for a day
Speaker 1: and came to a fair town, where they stopped. The
Speaker 1: Cossacks went to the town. As they were coming near,
Speaker 1: the Tartars began to shoot their arrows and wounded three Cossacks.
Speaker 1: Then Irmak sent an interpreter to tell the Tartars that
Speaker 1: they must surrender the town or else they would all
Speaker 1: be killed. The interpreter went and he returned and said,
Speaker 1: here lives Kuchum's servant at Tikmerza Kharchara. He has a
Speaker 1: large force, and he says he will not surrender the town.
Speaker 1: Yarmak gathered the Cossacks and said, boys, if we do
Speaker 1: not take this town, the Tartars will rejoice and will
Speaker 1: not let us pass on. The more we strike them
Speaker 1: with terror, the easier it will be land all and
Speaker 1: attack them all at once. So they did. There were
Speaker 1: many Tartars there, and they were brave. When the Cossacks
Speaker 1: rushed at them, the Tartars began to shoot their arrows.
Speaker 1: They covered the Cossacks with them. Some were killed and
Speaker 1: some wounded. The Cossacks became enraged, and when they got
Speaker 1: to the Tartars, they killed all that they could lay
Speaker 1: their hands on. In this town, the Cossacks found much property, cattle, rugs, furs,
Speaker 1: and honey. They buried the dead, rested themselves, took away
Speaker 1: much property, and sailed on. They did not sail far
Speaker 1: when they saw on the shore like a city, an
Speaker 1: endless number of troops, and the whole army surrounded by
Speaker 1: a ditch, and the ditch protected by timber. The Cossacks stopped.
Speaker 1: They deliberated. Earmot gathered a circle around him. Well, boys,
Speaker 1: what shall we do? The Cossacks were frightened. Some said
Speaker 1: that they ought to sail past, while others said they
Speaker 1: ought to go back, and others said they should take
Speaker 1: advantage of these sweet, sweet deals. God, I yep, your's ads,
Speaker 1: and we're back. They look gloomy and began to scold Irmak.
Speaker 1: They said, why did you bring us here? Already a
Speaker 1: few of ours have been killed, and many have been wounded,
Speaker 1: and all of us will perish here. They began to weep.
Speaker 1: But Rmak said to his Subottoman Ivan Colsteau, well, Vanya,
Speaker 1: what do you think? And Colstou said what do I think?
Speaker 1: If they do not kill us today, they will tomorrow,
Speaker 1: and if not tomorrow, we shall die anyway on the oven.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, we ought to go out in the
Speaker 1: shore and rush in a body against the Tartars. Maybe
Speaker 1: God will give us victory. Irmak said, you are a
Speaker 1: brave man, Vanya. That is what must be done. Oh
Speaker 1: you boys, you are not cossacks but old woman. All
Speaker 1: you are good for is to catch sturgeon and frighten
Speaker 1: Tartar women. Can't you see for yourselves? If we turn back,
Speaker 1: we shall be destroyed. If we stay here, they will
Speaker 1: destroy us. How can we go back? After a little work,
Speaker 1: it will come easier. Listen, boys, My father had a
Speaker 1: strong mare. Downhill, she would pull. In an uneven place,
Speaker 1: she would pull, but when it came to going uphill,
Speaker 1: she became stubborn and turned back, thinking it would be easier.
Speaker 1: But my father took a club and belabored her with it.
Speaker 1: She twisted and tugged and broke the whole cart. My
Speaker 1: father on hitched her from the cart and gave her
Speaker 1: a terrible whacking. If she had pulled the cart, she
Speaker 1: would have suffered no torment. So it is with us, boys.
Speaker 1: There is only one thing left for us to do,
Speaker 1: and that is to make straight for the Tartars. The
Speaker 1: Cossacks laughed and said, Timofitch, you are evidently more clever
Speaker 1: than we are. You have no business to ask us fools.
Speaker 1: Take us where you please. A man does not die twice,
Speaker 1: and one death cannot be escaped. And your Mak said, listen, boys,
Speaker 1: this is what we shall do. They have not yet
Speaker 1: seen us all. Let us divide into three parts. Those
Speaker 1: in the middle will march straight against them, and the
Speaker 1: other two divisions will surround them on the right and
Speaker 1: on the left. When the middle detachment begins to walk
Speaker 1: toward them, they will think that we are all there,
Speaker 1: and so they will leap forward. Then we will strike
Speaker 1: them from the sides the way. Boys, if we beat these,
Speaker 1: we shall not have to be afraid of anybody. We
Speaker 1: shall ourselves be kings. And so they did. When the
Speaker 1: middle detachment with Yermak advance, the Tartars screamed and leaped forward.
Speaker 1: Then they were attacked by even Colsteaux on the side
Speaker 1: and by Meshcheryakov, the Attaman on the left. The Tartars
Speaker 1: were frightened and ran. The Cossacks killed a great many
Speaker 1: of them. After that, nobody dared to oppose your Mak.
Speaker 1: Thus he entered the city of Sibir, and there Rmak
Speaker 1: settled down as though he were a king. Then Kinglets
Speaker 1: came to see Rmak and bowed to him. Tartars began
Speaker 1: to settle down in Sibir, and Kuchem and his son
Speaker 1: in law Mamat Koul were afraid to go straight at him,
Speaker 1: but kept going around in a circle, wondering how they
Speaker 1: might destroy him. In the spring, during high water, the
Speaker 1: Tartars came running to your Mok and said, Mamatkoul is
Speaker 1: going against us. He has gathered a large army and
Speaker 1: is making a stand near the river vargay Yrmak made
Speaker 1: his way over rivers, swamps, brooks and forests, stole up
Speaker 1: with his cossacks, rushed against Mamat Koul, killed a large
Speaker 1: number of Tartars, and took Mamotkoul alive and brought him
Speaker 1: to Sibir. After that there were only a few unruly
Speaker 1: Tartars left, and yr Mak went that summer against those
Speaker 1: who had not yet surrendered, and along the Irtish in
Speaker 1: the ab Yrmak conquered so much land that one could
Speaker 1: not march around it. In two months, when Yermak had
Speaker 1: conquered all that land, he sent a messenger to the
Speaker 1: Stroganovs and a letter. I have taken Kuchum city, he said,
Speaker 1: and have captured Mamat Koul and have brought all the
Speaker 1: people here under my rule. Only I have lost many Cossacks.
Speaker 1: Send people to us that we might feel more cheerful.
Speaker 1: There is no end to the wealth in this country.
Speaker 1: He sent them many costly furs, fox marten and sable furs.
Speaker 1: Two years passed after that. Hyrmak was still holding Sibir,
Speaker 1: but no aid came from Russia, and a few Russians
Speaker 1: were left with Irmak. One day, the Tartar Karacha sent
Speaker 1: a messenger to your Mak, saying, we have surrendered to you,
Speaker 1: but now the Nogays are oppressing us. Send your brave
Speaker 1: men to aid us. We shall together conquer the Nogays,
Speaker 1: and we swear to you that we shall not insult
Speaker 1: your brave men. Yurmak believed their oath and sent forty
Speaker 1: men under Ivan Costeau. When these forty men came there,
Speaker 1: the Tartars rushed against them and killed them, and there
Speaker 1: were still fewer Cossacks left. Another time, some Bukhara merchants
Speaker 1: sent word to Yrmak that they were on their way
Speaker 1: to the city of Sibir with goods, but that Kuchem
Speaker 1: had taken his stand with an army and would not
Speaker 1: let them pass through. Yrmak took with him fifty men
Speaker 1: and went out to clear the road for the Bukhara merchants.
Speaker 1: He came to the Irtysh River, but did not find
Speaker 1: the Bukharans. He remained there over night. It was a
Speaker 1: dark knight and it rained. The Cossacks are just lain
Speaker 1: down to sleep, when suddenly the Tartars rushed out and
Speaker 1: threw themselves on the sleepy men and began to strike
Speaker 1: them down. Irmak jumped up and began to fight. He
Speaker 1: was wounded in the hand. He ran toward the river.
Speaker 1: The Tartars after him. He into the river. That was
Speaker 1: the last time he was seen. His body was not
Speaker 1: recovered and no one found out how he died. The
Speaker 1: following year came the Tsar's army and the Tartars were pacified.
Speaker 1: The end. What a good story for kids, I, you know,
Speaker 1: can't imagine any other story I'd rather tell children. And
Speaker 1: the thing I find interesting about it, There's so many
Speaker 1: things I find interesting about it, and one of them
Speaker 1: is that, like, Okay, this is you know, presented as
Speaker 1: a story for kids, because your Mak, the conqueror of Siberia,
Speaker 1: was almost certainly a real person, but he also is
Speaker 1: completely shrouded in mystery. And the first sources, the original sources,
Speaker 1: there's a word here that I should know, and I
Speaker 1: normally do know. The prime sources are contradictory and not conclusive.
Speaker 1: And I'm, you know, haven't done a wild deep dive
Speaker 1: into this particular historical figure or time. But I just
Speaker 1: I find it so interesting. I find how this story
Speaker 1: feels like it kind of be anywhere in the world
Speaker 1: so fascinating to me. For a full blown history episode,
Speaker 1: I'll go deeper on my sources in Wikipedia, but for
Speaker 1: now I'm going to reference the Wikipedia page on the
Speaker 1: historical Yarmak. I've talked a lot of my podcasts recently
Speaker 1: about the Cossacks. How culturally that label meant something between
Speaker 1: the name of an ethnic group and the name for
Speaker 1: mercenary groups of bandits loyal to the czar. And I
Speaker 1: had no idea where that had come from, right, that
Speaker 1: was just always presented as like, oh, of course the Cossacks,
Speaker 1: you know, they're loyal to the czar, even though they're
Speaker 1: this nomadic people who do war. I'll probably not get
Speaker 1: into the nomadic war machine concept by delusion quatari, but
Speaker 1: this story is like the best example and I've ever
Speaker 1: seen in my life. If you ever want to lose
Speaker 1: yourself to strange continental philosophy that reads like poetry and
Speaker 1: halfway makes sense, read nomadology by losing kwatari about the
Speaker 1: concept of the nomadic war machine. And anyway, and so
Speaker 1: this story, not this version of it, but your mock
Speaker 1: and this conquering is where the distinction came from about
Speaker 1: what Cossacks mean in sort of more modern contexts. To
Speaker 1: quote Wikipedia, your mock transformed the image of the Cossack
Speaker 1: overnight from a bandit to a soldier recognized by the
Speaker 1: Czar of Moscow. Your Mack's call for aid thus spawned
Speaker 1: a new type of Cossack, which by virtue of its
Speaker 1: link to the government, would enjoy significant favor from future
Speaker 1: Russian rulers. And so you have this idea. Oh, I said,
Speaker 1: I wasn't going to get into the nomadic war machine,
Speaker 1: but here I am doing it. There's this idea. It's
Speaker 1: a philosophical idea. It's not a like true, guaranteed science.
Speaker 1: Thing that we tend to think of violence is the
Speaker 1: thing that the state does. But there's this idea that
Speaker 1: the thing that does the violence is often a force
Speaker 1: that's outside the state, and specifically, it's often a nomadic
Speaker 1: war machine. It is a tool that is used by
Speaker 1: the state to enact violence. And the reason that they
Speaker 1: are distinct is that the state doesn't want chaos, right,
Speaker 1: It wants control. It wants everything to be the same,
Speaker 1: and predictable violence and war are kind of the opposite
Speaker 1: of that. And so the modern state exists on some way.
Speaker 1: Again we're talking philosophically rather than like true or whatever.
Speaker 1: The modern state exists by balancing this calm center, right,
Speaker 1: this non chaotic space, with a harnessed war machine. And
Speaker 1: it's interesting because in that same way, what can undo
Speaker 1: the state also lies there and you will see this
Speaker 1: a lot in say, for example, most famously the Mexican Revolution,
Speaker 1: where a lot of the more important revolutionary figures actually
Speaker 1: came from banditry. And you know, banditree is a sort
Speaker 1: of classic nomadic war machine. The Cossacks are sort of
Speaker 1: a classic nomadic war machine, only in this case they're
Speaker 1: primarily for the state, you know. And you have exceptions,
Speaker 1: like some of the Cossacks ended up fighting in Ukraine
Speaker 1: against all of the armies except the Black Army Maknos
Speaker 1: Black Army, and fighting for a society of equals and
Speaker 1: things like that, and you have like there's like roots
Speaker 1: of democracy. You have this like violent force. The Cossacks
Speaker 1: in this story, right, they're running around and they're colonizing
Speaker 1: and they're killing all these people. But their atomon, their leader,
Speaker 1: is clearly not an authoritarian leader. He is saying like, well, boys,
Speaker 1: what do we do? How are we going to do this?
Speaker 1: You know, and they all have to sort of give
Speaker 1: their assent. And I am not yet an expert on
Speaker 1: exactly how that what their decision structures were, but this
Speaker 1: is the kind of thing that we see again and again,
Speaker 1: most famously in a Western sensed the pirates of the
Speaker 1: Golden Era of piracy, and I think all that stuff's
Speaker 1: neat and I hope you did too, So thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: See you next week with another cool Zone Media book Club,
Speaker 1: the only book club where you don't have to do
Speaker 1: the reading because I read it to you. Unfortunately, you
Speaker 1: don't get to say as much about what happened because
Speaker 1: I also do the interpretation for you. That part doesn't
Speaker 1: seem fair. So if you want to go on Reddit,
Speaker 1: that sentence doesn't start anything good. If you want to
Speaker 1: go on Reddit to the subreddit, then you could talk
Speaker 1: about the stories in the books that we talk about
Speaker 1: on Coolzone Media book Club, and that is one way
Speaker 1: you can talk about it. Otherwise you're stuck with my
Speaker 1: interpretation by It Could Happen Here as a production of
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Speaker 1: updated monthly at Coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.