1 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think there's some stories sometimes where it's like, oh, 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm not good enough or I'm too much, 3 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: or um, maybe I just haven't met the right person, 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: or I've been doing dating wrong for fifteen years of 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: my life, Like I just don't know how to talk 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: to boys. Maybe I don't know. Like, Hi, guys, and 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: welcome back to You Need Therapy Podcasts. I am your host, Cat, 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: and I am pumped about the episode today because I 9 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: have one of my best friends, Kelen, on to talk 10 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: about life and just stages of life and adult ing. 11 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: What it is, what we thought it was news flash, 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: It's out what we thought it was UM, and Kellen 13 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: is so amazing and being able to come in and 14 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: talk about some of that and the hardness of it. 15 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: I have my friend and fellow therapist in Nashville, Megan, 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: on this episode also to help me walk Kellen through 17 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: some of these conversations, and I'm so grateful for that. 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: I want to go ahead and remind you guys, connect 19 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: with me and follow me on Instagram at at Cat 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: dot defata and the podcast at at You Need Therapy Podcast, 21 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: and then you can join our newsletter UM that we 22 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: call the self love Club UM by going to the 23 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: website you need Therapy podcast dot com and subscribing. Also, 24 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: we give you a little gift if you sign up 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: that you can use in our March store online. So 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: that's exciting. But more importantly, I want you guys to 27 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: hear this conversation I had with one of my best friends. 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: And here it is my conversation with Megan and Kellen. Hi. 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: We're here in the office with UM the lovely Kelen Hi. 30 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm great, I'm excited to be here. 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: How are you feeling. I'm a little nervous. I'm not 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: gonna lie. Does it intimidate you that we're your two 33 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: therapists across from you? A little? Like? I feel, um 34 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: like I could be judged a little bit. Also, I'm 35 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: a little nervous about like what might come out of 36 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: this all fair assumptions. That's why we let you sit 37 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: in the therapist chair. I do feel a little more 38 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: powerful over here. Perfect. This will be the most time 39 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: I've probably ever sat on this couch. I spent a 40 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: lot of time on this couch because I take a 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: lot of naps. Okay, definitely my first, my first time 42 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: sitting on the couch next to somebody. Oh yeah, that 43 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: is true anyway, So we're very excited to have you. 44 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: I probably have already said this in the intro, but 45 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: Kelen is one of my good friends. Megan knows her. 46 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: You met at that Cleo Waite. Isn't that where you 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: met the Clear Wade book signing I drove we met 48 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: at a story of It? No way, Michael Bourne, the poet. Yeah, 49 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: I love that night. I'm learning from this podcast that 50 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: I don't remember meeting people. So I'm really glad that 51 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: you know that. It's I think it's becoming a big 52 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: way of shame for me that I'm like, I don't 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: know that. I remember many first impressions. It actually makes 54 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: me feel better, but you don't remember, because yeah, you 55 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: don't remember. The issue that is, I feel like I've 56 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: known Kellen like before. I knew you just through Catherine, 57 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: so I know who you were before. Like, yes, I 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: remember being together at that, Do you really I remember that. 59 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: I remember a lot of things that don't need to 60 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: go on the area. I know what you're thinking, but yeah, 61 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: I know a lot. Kellen. I'm excited to sit down 62 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: with you because I know I feel like I know 63 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: more about you, like through Catherine than I do actually 64 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: you because I don't know that we really sat down 65 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: and had a conversation together. Yeah, well I met Colm. 66 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: I was like, probably, right, I could have been younger 67 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: than that. You could have been possibly because I was 68 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: a freshman in high school. Yeah, I was probably like 69 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen. We were younger. It is so, um, 70 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm two years younger than you because you're really one 71 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: year older than my sister. But you were on the 72 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: same no, your sister's age, but so Sarah played soccer 73 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: with my sister. But you lived in Bowling Grain, but 74 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: she traveled to girl. That's right. I feel like we 75 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: have talked about this. Um, yeah, and had our first 76 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: impression that I don't remember, were already talking about it. 77 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: And yeah, little Fats were so kind to open up 78 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: their home and ever I needed to stay the night, 79 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: like when we had two day practices and whatnot. So 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: it became pretty close with the fan. Yeah, and and 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: now she's my friend and she lives in my old 82 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: bedroom in my parents house. I moved out of my house. 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: I haven't told you this, So I moved out of 84 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: my Okay, this is like a cool story. So I 85 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: quit my job to go start a private practice, and 86 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: so I had no money. So I moved out of 87 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: my house and moved in with my sister. So I 88 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: had to fill my room. And Kellen was looking for 89 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: a roommate. And we weren't friends at the time. We 90 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: were just friends on Facebook senior years, and so she came, 91 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: looked at the house, was like, oh, I'll live here, 92 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: moved in with my two best friends, and then like 93 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm moved out, and then now we're all best friends. 94 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: And then she introduced our friend Michelle to her now Beyonce, 95 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: which is it? Really? Is that? Honestly, when I was 96 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: looking for a place to live, I remember thinking before 97 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: I made that post on Facebook, was like, I can't 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: believe I'm this desperate that I'm posting on Facebook, Like 99 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: I didn't, I know, it's crazy. So it worked out 100 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: really well, and Michelle owes her engagement to both of us. 101 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: Yes she does anyway, so let's get into so yeah, well, 102 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: I just have to get credit somehow for the things 103 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: that happen out of people's lives. It's all about it. 104 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: It's all about being a little shout out that everyone 105 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: is to hear of their own story. Anyone that's been 106 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: in therapy with me long enough and speaking of therapy, UM, Kellen, 107 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: have you ever been? I have? UM. The first time 108 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: I went to therapy, I was kind of forced to go. 109 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: My parents were went through a divorce, and I think 110 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: it was my mom's kind of attempt to help the 111 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: situation because it was kind of a shocking thing. I 112 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: only went twice. I remember nothing from it other than 113 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: the room and what the guy looked like. Like crazy, 114 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: how you can not remember but you were older? Yeah, 115 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 1: I was twenty. I think I was just in a 116 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: state of shock from the situation that everything else was 117 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: just kind of like a moving circle and I was 118 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: just kind of there. Um. But since then, I have 119 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: done some work in therapy. UM. For about a couple 120 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: of years, I worked with one here in town, and 121 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: I can vividly remember the first appointment with her. The 122 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: reason I was my boss offered to pay for one 123 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: appointment a month, and I was like, I have to 124 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: take advantage of that. Absolutely. So I remember saying that. 125 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: She was like, what are you here for? And I 126 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, UM, I'm sure you answer. Ever, 127 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: I love that. Let's talk about what you wanted to 128 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: be different in your life, which is a great question. 129 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: I think I was just like I just want to 130 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: be the best version of myself and this seemed like 131 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: a good step. Um. But yeah, it was a really 132 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: great journey for a couple of years. So yeah, why 133 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: do you feel like was the thing you got the 134 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 1: most like from that experience? Sure, I learned so much 135 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: about myself. Um, I went through like kind of an 136 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: opening up of who I am, and I learned a 137 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: lot of different coping strategies and in just different ways 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: to look at the world. I think I was um 139 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: before I went to therapy. I was very and we'll 140 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: probably get into this later, just very like straight line 141 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: and like this is how you're supposed to do things, 142 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: this is what it's supposed to look like, this is 143 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: how you're supposed to feel um. And it wasn't until 144 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: I started going to therapy when you've learned that, like 145 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: that's that's not really how life works. So you don't 146 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: even know there's another option until you talking about it 147 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: with somebody. Yeah, and how life, I know we'll get 148 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: into this later, but how life really isn't right or 149 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: wrong and there really isn't a black and white, a 150 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: life that's lived well, it's navigating how to hold the 151 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: both and like it can be beautiful and messy, it 152 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: could be like really hard and really great. Yeah, the 153 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: both and was something that it was. I think she 154 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: probably said that to me so many times of like 155 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: you gotta remember the both and so yeah, it's funny 156 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: your therapist on Instagram. Yeah, she's a really nice aesthetic 157 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: perfect box to look at that. Yeah, it's just such 158 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: a good point because life is is a lot. I 159 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: think it's a lot better really being able to hold 160 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: the both and but also it's a lot more unclear. 161 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite things is like when somebody 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: asked me like what to do, Like what do you 163 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: think I should do? And I'm like, I really honestly 164 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: don't know, but I do know you have a lot 165 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: of options, and let's talk about those. Yes, that is 166 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: one thing I absolutely learned. Um, I'm an insiogram three, 167 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: so and I'm sure we'll talk about that later as well. 168 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: But as a three, UM, we often don't understand emotions 169 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: and so we push them aside, so we just don't 170 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: deal with them. And so I remember so many times 171 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: just being like yeah, cool, I feel that I'm sad, 172 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: but like, what how do we get out of it? 173 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: And like that's not always the point, And I think 174 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: for me, it's still learning to sit in the sadness 175 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: and and work through it instead of just running away 176 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: from it. We know how to do that in us. 177 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: It is because the three, like when you think about 178 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: Instagram numbers, there's like in the triad, one projects, one suppresses, 179 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: and the other one I'm blanking. I don't know as 180 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: much as you know, and they take because I'm thinking 181 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: the two express expresses it. Yes, the four of me 182 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: the expressor, the three would be the suppressor, and the 183 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: two would be the projector. Um and sevens are suppressors, 184 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: to which means essentially threes and sevens. We're just really 185 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: good at pretending like we don't have any feelings and 186 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: then kind of working them out in different ways, and 187 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: in your case is achieving yes, and ours would be 188 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: more just having lots of fun. Yeah. Well, I'm just 189 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: thinking about how this is going to work out really 190 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: well this episode because we like to have a lot 191 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: of fun, and you like to have the best of everything, 192 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: So we don't have the best fun. Let's do this, 193 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: do it? So let's yeah, let's do it. I Megan 194 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: and I were talking Friday. Yesterday Friday, We're talking about 195 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: you and what she because obviously I know you really well, 196 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: so how this would be interesting with somebody knows you 197 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: really well and somebody that doesn't know you like at all. 198 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: And she gave me a picture of who she thought 199 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: you were, and so I want to start with that 200 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of like, can you tell us when you hear her, 201 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: when you've heard me talk about her, see me post anything, 202 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: like what is your experience of who do you think 203 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: she is? Yeah, Katherine was like, oh, save this for 204 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: the air, and I was like great. But it was 205 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: interesting because we were kind of prepping for this episode 206 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: and Katherine was just talking more about what you could 207 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: really bring to listeners and where we could take the 208 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: conversation and obviously we're all open to wherever it goes. 209 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: And so as we were talking about that, I was like, Wow, 210 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: it's really interesting because when I pull up Kellen's instagram, 211 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: like I pulled up your instagram to kind of prepare 212 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: for the episode, and um think more about that and 213 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And I told Katherine, I'm like, 214 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: it's so interesting, Like the stories that we make up 215 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: based on like the little information we have or the 216 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: pictures that we see versus like the reality. And because 217 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: I think it's really easy to make up this story, 218 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: like pulling up your Instagram or just what I've heard 219 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: from Katherine about you, I'm like, oh, no, she doesn't 220 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: have any struggles. Like she's beautiful, She's like doing lots 221 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: of fun things. She seems to have a job that 222 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: she loves, and like a life that looks really enjoyable. 223 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: And I think it's really easy in that to also 224 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: like right off the fact that your life also has 225 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: pain in it. Yeah, what does it like to hear 226 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: her say that? What were you thinking in your head 227 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: when she said those things? It's very kind and yeah, 228 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: I like I was in my head. I was like 229 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: scrolling through my Instagram, like thinking what's on there right now? 230 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: I don't even know like what the I'm actually off 231 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Instagram right now, So I was like, oh, I don't 232 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: remember the first thing. I actually has a picture of 233 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: Psycho War. When I saw it, I was like, dang, 234 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: Katherine just recruits all absolutely. But yeah, no, I I 235 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: hear that, and I'm like, yep, that I understand how 236 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: you would get that, and a lot of those things 237 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: aren't true, so it's interesting, Yeah, are there feelings that 238 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: if you can access them? Are their feelings that come 239 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: up when you're like a lot of those things aren't true, 240 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: but that's what she thinks, Like that's interest. Yeah, I think, Um, 241 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: it makes me kind of question a little bit, like, oh, 242 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe I need to be a little more real on 243 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: my Instagram, which I think that. Gosh, we can probably 244 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: talk for hours about Instagram and the effects and the 245 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: culture it's creating a round the highlight reel. But at 246 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: the same time, Um, I think I've been working really 247 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: hard to keep it real with my inner circle, you know, 248 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's the important thing. I don't think 249 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: no offense to you, Megan, but like you don't need 250 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: to know my pain, you know. Um, yeah, yeah, I agree, 251 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: because I those things are true. I would say those 252 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: things are true. Well, some of the things you said 253 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: are true about Kellen. And then the part where like 254 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: she does, I've seen your pain a lot. We've had 255 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: a lot of crying in a bar or on a 256 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: couch or like there's a lot of that, and but 257 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: you also are really fun and you we do do 258 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: fun things and you are beautiful. It's like, so I 259 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: do see both sides, but it is just interesting how 260 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: she could just have that impression. Yeah, really like a 261 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: one dimensional you know, I was on I was probably 262 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: on your Instagram for less than a minute. It's like 263 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: I pulled it up. I look done a few things. 264 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: I thought about a few things to ask Catherine, and 265 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: like that I would want to ask you, and then 266 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: I was done. And I think I was just really 267 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: aware of like, wow, I made up all these assumptions 268 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: in one minute that I even knew were really like 269 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: one dimensional. Like it's very possible and probably true. And 270 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: we'll get into it about how a lot of parts 271 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: of who people think you are in a first glance 272 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: are true parts of you and it's not the full picture. Right, Yeah, 273 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: that makes total sense. So do you want to just 274 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: go into why we brought her here? Yeah? I think 275 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: this is jumping. Okay, So speaking of all that, that's 276 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: kind of like a nice segue into um, do you 277 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: mind if we say your age? No, not at all. Um, 278 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: So you're thirty one, right, you're about too in a 279 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. When's your birthday? Have you very eleventh? O? 280 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: My address it. Just send me some gifts. My venmo 281 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: is at Kelly and Joe, people send money, send her money. 282 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: I was just curious everybody have it at you like, 283 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: that's a super personal question. I just really like to 284 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: know people's birthday. No, I didn't know. It wasn't anything 285 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: about the question. I was just stating if I was 286 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: really in the horoscope, so I'd be like, yep, you're 287 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: this and that means this would always about you and 288 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: the episodes over because we know everything. Uh, and Aquarius, 289 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: do you believe in all that stuff? I don't. I 290 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: don't really adhere to it, but they have a moments 291 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: where I've read things about Aquarius is like, oh, that 292 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: kind of is me in a lot of ways. Yeah. 293 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: I feel like when whenever I would ever read a horoscope, 294 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: I just read it if I like, I remember this one. 295 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: I was little. You know, they used to have like 296 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: them all in the back of magazines and stuff. The 297 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: magazines were big. It was just if I wanted to 298 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: figure out if my crush liked me or yeah, this 299 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: is the week that he's going to ask me out. 300 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: The best thing I've seen around that my sister sent 301 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: me a meme that basically said something along the lines 302 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: of like something had happened in the picture. And it 303 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know if this is because I'm 304 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: a Gemini or because of my childhood trauma. And I 305 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: was like, let's go anyway, so your thirty one, let's 306 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: start this out with. I would like to know when 307 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: you were younger, when you were a kid, what you 308 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: thought your life was going to look like at thirty one, 309 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: and then what are the differences in that? Sure, Um, 310 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: it would have looked very different, I think, Um, I 311 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: think the biggest thing I was thinking a lot about 312 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: this question. Um, I think I thought my life would 313 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: be a lot clear at this point. Oh and that's 314 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: around a lot of different aspects in life. I think 315 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: I thought I would have I would be married, possibly 316 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: have a kid, um, be a little more settled down 317 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: with where I was, have a clear career path. Um. 318 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: And instead everything just feels a little a little muddy 319 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: and unknown, and like, so yeah, that's the answer. Clarity. 320 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: You thought at this point you would have a lot 321 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: more clarity. Yeah, I think, Um, growing up, you know, 322 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 1: you see the generation ahead of us. It seems as 323 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: though and this is you know, the way we I 324 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: interpreted as a kid, it was like, these are the 325 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: steps that you take. You go to college, you meet someone, 326 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: then you get married, and you build a life. Um 327 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: that way. And so for a lot of us in 328 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: this generation where you know, we possibly didn't meet a 329 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: spouse in college, and you know, you went through your 330 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: twenties and now you're in your thirties and you're like, oh, 331 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: I still don't have a partner, and I possibly don't 332 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: know what my career looks like still, and so it's 333 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: just yeah, so not having those things, what it's like 334 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: the meaning you make of that. If it's not clarity, 335 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: what is it? It's Yeah, it's the the unknown, And 336 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: I think that is a Um it's a beautiful and 337 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: terrifying thing that I still have this power to create something, 338 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: you know, like it isn't defined yet and so I 339 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: still have to go and make that happen. And so 340 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: in that regard, it's a little scary that it's not 341 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: clearly defined yet. Um, But then it's also exciting at 342 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, I find like even listening to 343 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: you talk it brings us something I think about a lot, 344 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: which oftentimes I'll think about things in my life and 345 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: then think about my parents at this age and I'm like, damn, 346 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: I like, really I thought that they had a lot 347 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: more figured out than they probably did. I think about 348 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: my age now, like my mom had two on kids, 349 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: and I'm just when I connect that to my own life, 350 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, what in the world. But really, this idea 351 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: that when we're old or older we'll have it all 352 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: figured out and it sounds like even what you're talking 353 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: about is like, gosh, there's so many more questions than 354 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: there are answers. Yeah. Absolutely, I think about that a 355 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: lot too. I think you, especially if you grow up, 356 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: you learn that your parents are also just humans. They 357 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: aren't superheroes, they aren't perfect um, And you realize that, yeah, 358 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: they don't have it figured out either. And there you 359 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: know my mom, they're in their sixties, they're still figuring 360 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: it out. Um. And so yeah, just a constant learning. 361 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: Is there anything in your life now that's really great 362 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: that you could have never predicted when you were younger? Absolutely? Um, 363 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: I in my career haven't afforded so many amazing opportunities 364 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: that I look back and I'm like, I can't believe 365 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: I got to do that or that that happened. And 366 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: you talk about what you do. Sure, UM, I like 367 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: to say that I create experiences for people. So whether 368 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: that is through a video or an event or a podcast, UM, 369 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: I love to help create the branding around that and 370 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: then also like the logistics and all those wonderful things. 371 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: I like to invite people into an experience. UM. And 372 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: I've started out in the music industry doing that. I 373 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: lived in l A for a bit, um and yeah, 374 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: I think just like the people have gotten to meet, 375 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: the things I've gotten to do, the places I've gotten 376 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: to see, UM, there there's really mind blowing and there 377 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: are things that I couldn't have dreamt up as a kid, um, 378 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: which has just been really really great. You know, I've 379 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: been talking this has been coming up a lot lately, 380 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: so I find it's interesting. But people are age struggling 381 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: with like I don't have my um, the same thing 382 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: you're saying, like I don't have the job, the dream 383 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: job that I thought I was going to have and whatever. 384 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: And the difference that I have found in like our 385 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: parents versus us is it seems like the generation or 386 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: two generations before us, whatever you go to school for, 387 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: like accounting or I don't know, business, or whatever it is, 388 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: and then you go become that thing, right, And it's like, 389 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: now you go to school and you get whatever the 390 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 1: hell degree you want to get, and then you go 391 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: create that thing. Like if there's so many jobs, I 392 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: hear so many people now of like I'm writing a 393 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: proposal for a job or I'm just gonna start my 394 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: own thing. And I don't know if it's just because 395 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm in it that I feel like that's bigger, but 396 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: it seems like that's an opportunity that we get to 397 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: lean into. With how the world is shifting, um that 398 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons I think a lot of 399 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: people struggle as we aren't where we thought we were 400 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: going to be, is because the world's moving and we 401 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: have an opportunity to move with it and it's not 402 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: so linear anymore. And really, the idea of freedom comes 403 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: up most of the time when you talk to people. 404 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: What they really want is freedom, and then you suddenly 405 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: get it and it's like, oh, ship, what am I 406 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: gonna do with this? Because it's funny that you bring 407 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: up the accounting degree, like I have an accounting degree. 408 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: How much you use that? Actually a lot? Personally, I'm 409 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: helping all of my friends, um kind of figure out 410 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: financial things that not me because I don't want to 411 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: hear it, except that one free session you got around 412 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: UM when we were calculating what you Oh, yeah, that 413 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: was helpful, But really it does. It comes to this 414 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: idea of freedom and the more freedom we have, actually 415 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: that can be a lot scarier than to go to school, 416 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: get an accounting degree, go get some job, and then 417 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: complain about how much you don't like the job. And 418 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: now like there's so much more freedom to be like, Okay, 419 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get whatever degree or not, and I'm 420 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: going to go create the life that I want. And 421 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: then what happens is like you're responsible for the life 422 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: that you create. There's no one to blame. Yes, that responsibility. 423 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: It can it's a blessing and a burden. It can 424 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 1: be so heavy. In fact, I just quit my nine 425 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: five jobs, so come jan I'm not going to have 426 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: a constant paycheck coming in and so you're But at 427 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: the same time, I do have that freedom to go 428 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: out and find exciting projects that I'm excited about and 429 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 1: really work within my own power to try to make 430 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: that happen for me. So which may not happen, but 431 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: it's it's exciting to think about. Yeah, would you be 432 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: willing to talk about the process of deciding. It sounds 433 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: like you've decided to quit like your nine to five 434 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: stable air quotes, Yes, to really do something more on 435 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: your own. Can you talk more about that. Yeah. So 436 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: the past year, I've been working for a creative agency 437 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: here in town, and um, I learned a lot, but 438 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: I also learned things that I don't enjoy, which is 439 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: working with really corporate clients. And while I was there 440 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: working full time, I had some potential clients reach out 441 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: to me for projects that I was really excited about, 442 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: and I was having to turn them down. So, you know, 443 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: I started throwing around this idea like what if I quit, 444 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: What if I just went out on my own so 445 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: I was able to take on these projects that are 446 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: more meaningful for me. Um, And so I did. And yeah, 447 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: my last days in a couple of weeks. It's really 448 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: crazy and exciting. But um, you know, the day after 449 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: last day, I'm fine to Miami to work some events 450 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: around the super Bowl, which is like I'm really excited about. 451 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: So sometimes when you take that leap, things just start 452 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: to come your way. That are that are meant for you, 453 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: Like oftentimes we think we need the information in order 454 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: to take the leap, and in really life works every 455 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: time that I've learned, it's like taking the leap and 456 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: and the faith and the results come after the fact. Yeah, yeah, 457 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's It doesn't make it any less scary, 458 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: but it is really exciting what I know about you 459 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: and your walk in your career life. Your career journey 460 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: is at one point, I think you it's been cool 461 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: to see you in these different aspects in your different 462 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: jobs or care they're all the same. Career is different 463 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: actual jobs because at one point you had a space 464 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: where you loved, loved, love the work you're doing, and 465 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: you're so passionate about the work, and you kind of 466 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: I think what I made up and I think you 467 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: probably said this is the pain points were worth it 468 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: because the work was so menaningful to you. And then 469 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: you transitioned front there came a point where that that 470 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: didn't fit anymore. You transitioned into a job or a 471 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: position where some of the pain points weren't there, but 472 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: then the passion was dropped. And so can you talk 473 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: about because it kind of backwards how that works. So 474 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: can you talk about like how what it was like 475 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: for you to finally find this thing, have to let 476 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: go of it and move into this thing and the 477 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: feelings that you've had this past year around that. Sure? Yeah, um, 478 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: and you were right absolutely. I loved um My, my job. 479 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: It was there were a lot of pain points around it, 480 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: but I would ask myself every day it's like is 481 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: this worth it? And every day it was yes. Like 482 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: I cared really deeply about the work we were doing. 483 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: I enjoyed my day to day. It was always different. 484 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 1: I was always learning and the people that I got 485 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: to meet along the way where it was just so impactful. Um. 486 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: And when I lost that, there was a feeling of 487 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: I was a little direction list honestly for like a 488 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: couple of months of like what do I do with 489 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: this experience that I gained because in that position, it 490 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: was a very small team, so I was doing a 491 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: million different things. I learned a time. But it's like cool, 492 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: So now I'm like this jack of all trades, but 493 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert really in anything. So how do 494 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: you how do you navigate that and figure this out 495 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: in this this career? Um, and actually this job that 496 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: I have now that I just quit UM. They were 497 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: looking for someone that had all of that experience, and 498 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: they were struggling to find someone that had both this 499 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: producer logistical brain but also could be creative and market 500 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: on the same um with the same project, and they 501 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: were struggling to find that. So it was like this 502 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: realization of like, oh, I can do this same thing 503 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: for other people, but you're right there. There was a 504 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: lack of meaning behind the project, and so that is 505 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: ultimately why I'm UM deciding to step away from that. 506 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: But it has been tough for this past year of 507 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: getting to use what I think is my giftings and 508 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,479 Speaker 1: my skills for something that is just not life giving 509 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: for me UM. But through that I've learned a lot. 510 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: So it's like holding onto the things that I've learned 511 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: and I've gained UM and really focusing on those things 512 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: and just taking those into whatever comes next. Coming back 513 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: to the both and the job has been both. It 514 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: sounds like a couple of different jobs you've had have 515 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: been both really wonderful in some ways where you could 516 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: step into a lot of your gifting and hard in 517 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: other ways that maybe you could and have imagined or predicted. Yeah. Absolutely. 518 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: And I think also something I dealt with was I 519 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,719 Speaker 1: felt like I let um the job that I loved 520 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: become my identity in a way. Um, it was everything 521 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: because it was a cool job. It was, yes, very 522 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: cool job. I was so proud of everything that we did. Um. 523 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: And I was working sixty seventy eight hours a week 524 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: and didn't blink an eye about that, like, didn't care. Um. 525 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: And so it was kind of nice to come into 526 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: a season of a little bit of rest and kind 527 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: of learn about some work life boundaries and what that 528 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: looks like. It was like, oh, okay, this is nice. 529 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: I can have a Saturday and not work, Like I 530 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: don't have to check my email today, Like I don't. 531 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: I didn't know what that life was like. Um. And 532 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: as in any Graham three, like we love the work 533 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: like to become a workaholic. So it's also something I'm learning. 534 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: Workaholism one of the best addictions out there. I'm not opinion, 535 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm not from learning workhol No, it's when I say 536 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: best addictions out there, it's the most praised probably in society. 537 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,719 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you get so much reward because you're getting 538 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: either financial reward or some sort of attention or payoff 539 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: or achievement, and it also feels so much of your 540 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: time where you don't have to think or feel. Yeah. Absolutely, 541 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: we live in a very um any a Graham three 542 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: society here in the States. The rewards that absolutely what 543 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: are your ridual feelings? And we have this chart right 544 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: in front of you if you would like to feeling 545 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: always the amount of times that I've said, like Katherine's 546 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: really like she's a good friend in this way, like 547 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: she doesn't bring her therapy too much into friendship, but 548 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: the moment she's like, so, how do you feel about that? 549 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: And I'll say where She's like, that's not a feeling. 550 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: Like I'm trying so hard. My favorite thing to do 551 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: is when I say, like, what are you feeling? They're 552 00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: like I think that, And I'm like, I didn't ask 553 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: for your to ask for your feelings. God, she's bringing 554 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: on the hair outside of the all. But I mean 555 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: not even just goes to like how often we try 556 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: to think around our emotions, Like I'll ask directly, what 557 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: is what are you feeling? I actually really want to know, 558 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: and it's like we go sideways to try to like 559 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 1: swerve it. Well, I think that what happened was and 560 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: I like, that's not what I asked, Um, But for 561 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: you back to my question, what are your residual feelings 562 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: around having those two things? Because it almost what I hear. 563 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: I wish you could take this and take this and 564 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: then make that. And so what are your feelings going 565 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: back to where we started, here's being thirty one, not 566 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: having clarity, but having these experiences at the same time, 567 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: what are you feeling sitting and where you are today? 568 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: It's a really good question. Um, I think I'm like 569 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: looking at the cheat sheet of the of the emotions there. 570 00:31:54,280 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: There's definitely some shame around it, um, because because it's 571 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: like I just saw it, I would have the career 572 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: figured out. Um, I wouldn't be figuring out how I'm 573 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: going to make rent next month, Like you know, that's 574 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: that's not something that I thought at two that would 575 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: be a question in my mind. Um. You know, I 576 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: thought I probably thought I'd own a house by now, 577 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: you know. So there's definitely some shame around that. There's 578 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: some some sadness around the letting go of something that 579 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: I loved, but then there's also this excitement of like, Okay, 580 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: let's let's go create this, like, let's figure this out, um, 581 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: which is exciting and scary all at once. Yeah, that's 582 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: a good transition even to another question that I held. 583 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: You know, we talked a little bit about like what 584 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: are the great things in your life you couldn't have 585 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: predicted that are there? And then can we move a 586 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: little bit more into things that aren't in your life now? 587 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: Maybe the grief you're carrying around those things not being here. Yeah. Absolutely, 588 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: I would say that the biggest thing actually, had someone 589 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: asked me yesterday, what are you most sad about right 590 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: now in your life? Are they a therapist my coach, um, 591 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: because oftentimes I get on the column he's like, what 592 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: do you want to work on? I'm like, I don't know. 593 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: So that's you know, it's a good lead question, um, 594 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: And it really is. I'm really lonely and being single, 595 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: and it's something that I've had to come to terms 596 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: with and being willing to admit that I'm sad around 597 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: it because I think there was a little bit of 598 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: shame of like, no, I'm supposed to have it all together. 599 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: It's okay, Like empowered woman, independent woman, which I have 600 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: been for since I was you know on my own 601 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: seventeen I have been this independent women, but I'm learning 602 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: that it's so it's okay to have those desires and 603 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: to want a partner in life and um being willing 604 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: to tell people that, like, yeah, I want to build 605 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: a life of someone and I want to have a 606 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: powerful partnership with someone, um that we're running after things together. 607 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: And so not having that has been something that I've 608 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: been dealing with a lot of grief around, especially in 609 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: the last couple of years, because I think that's when 610 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: I finally came to terms with that's something that I want. Um. 611 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: So then not so having that unmet desire has been 612 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: something that I've really been navigating. Do you build stories 613 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: around that? For you in the sense of how we 614 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: have to make sense of things? What's the story that 615 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: you've built around not having that? Right now? Which one 616 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: do you want? Take all of them? Depending on what 617 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: the different moods, Do you have a different story? Yeah? 618 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: I think, Um, I think that there are some stories 619 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: of like, well, there's just no one left that's single, 620 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: that's quality, which we know that's not true, um, but 621 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: I think we can get stuck in that. I think 622 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: there's some stories sometimes where it's like, oh, I'm you know, 623 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm not good enough or I'm too much, or um, 624 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: maybe I just haven't met the right person, or I've 625 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: been doing dating wrong for fifteen years of my life, 626 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: like I just don't know how to talk to boys. 627 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know. Like so, yeah, and it really 628 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: does depend on because I do date, and so I 629 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: can really depend on the situation that's been happening and 630 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: the stories that revolve around that maybe particular person or situation. Um. 631 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, there are a lot of stories. Thanks for 632 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: your humility and being willing to talk about it, because 633 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us carries stories. A lot 634 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: of everybody carries lots of stories about lots of things. Yes, Um. 635 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: And then even in the world of dating, it can 636 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: be hard as a female who does have like it 637 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: seems to me that you really like yourself in a 638 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: lot of ways and do our a strong woman, and 639 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: then it can be hard to talk about this unmet 640 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: desire or something that you really want in a way 641 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: of not feeling desperate or what people are going to 642 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: think around that unmet desire. Yeah, thanks for that. It's 643 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: taken some work, for sure, absolutely, because I think there 644 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: is this I think your society sometimes chastises women for 645 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: being quote unquote needy when in reality, like we were 646 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: created for relationship, um, and there's there shouldn't be shame 647 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: around it. Like, yes, there probably are wrong ways to 648 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: go about it, but yeah, there just shouldn't be. But 649 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: also isn't neediness something that should and an essence should 650 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: be celebrated the fact that like, I'm willing to be 651 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: open in the fact that I do need people in 652 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: my life to to be fulfilled because we weren't put 653 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: on the earth to be alone, and so I think 654 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 1: that's something I don't know if it's the way we 655 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: preson ent it to the world, but something to be 656 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: celebrated that you're willing to say that this is in 657 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: need of mine. It is a desire and want, right, 658 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: but also it's a need for us to be in 659 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: relationship with people. And you're just saying, like I am 660 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: open and wanting a deeper kind of that. It brings 661 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: me to to thinking about one of the ways that 662 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: I hold in my head, like the difference between enabling 663 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: and being helpful is asking myself like, is this something 664 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: the other person could reasonably be able to do? For themselves, 665 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: and if the answers yes, it's like, okay, how can 666 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: I support them in doing that, um, rather than doing 667 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: it for them and enabling them. So even when I 668 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: think about neediness, like within ourselves, it's like there are 669 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: times that we can be too needy in the sense 670 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: of like, hey, I need to do this for myself, yes, um. 671 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: And then there are really times that like we need 672 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: to step into our neediness relationally and let somebody be 673 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: in that with us, which is hard to navigate, it 674 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: really is. It's a really good point. What do you 675 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: think is the hardest part about being an adult? Because 676 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: you are one slash, what did you think was going 677 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: to be the hardest part about being an adult? Like 678 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 1: when you were a kid, what were you least looking 679 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: forward to kind of and most looking forward to? Interesting 680 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: the truth, Yeah, I think when I was a kid, 681 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: I was really excited about the thought of being on 682 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: my own. I think I've always been a fairly independent human. Um, 683 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: So I think that was I love my parents and 684 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,479 Speaker 1: had a really great childhood growing up. But I think 685 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 1: I always like wanted to be like I don't need you, 686 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: and I don't know what that seems from probably pride 687 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: or I'm not really sure. So I think for me 688 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: that was like exciting of like getting to create my 689 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: own life, um, which now as an adult, that's probably 690 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: the scariest part being an adult is not having someone 691 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: to answer to, which is something we talked about. UM. 692 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: And I think that our generation, UM, I don't think 693 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: anyone really prepared us for our twenties and what that 694 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 1: was supposed to look like. I think, you know, we 695 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: got sent to college, and I think at least I 696 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: was told that's where you find yourself. You find yourself 697 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: in college, and honestly, I probably lost myself the most 698 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: in college because you are, at least for me, I 699 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,799 Speaker 1: was fighting to be seen in different capacity. So I 700 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: was using achievement because that's that's my go to to 701 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: figure out how to be seen. So I was spreading 702 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: myself so thin. I was on the soccer team, and 703 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: then also I was in the musicals, and then I'm 704 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: you know, working in the athletic department and then also 705 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: volunteering to be in the fraternity sorority world. Like, I 706 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,320 Speaker 1: just had to be seen everywhere. And it wasn't until 707 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: my late twenties where I started to really learn about 708 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: myself and like what would have actually, like, what do 709 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: I actually enjoy doing? So So when you said, um 710 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 1: that when you started going to therapy, that's when you 711 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: finally started like figuring out who you were. That all 712 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: makes sense now because I feel so connected to you 713 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: right now because you're rolling your eyes. I think I 714 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,879 Speaker 1: raised my eye rolls just so I can defend myself. 715 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm not an eye roller. I did look at you 716 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 1: with an eye a suspicious iris because I think I 717 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: probably was feeling a little bit lonely. You know, I've 718 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: connected to you to a different way. I'm not that 719 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm not connected to you, but yeah, like actually, okay, 720 00:40:57,760 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: now I feel more connected to you, and like I've 721 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: connected to you too after these Okay, well, actually we all, 722 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: I bet everybody feel I can't say everybody, but we 723 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: all three our stories are so similar in the sense that, okay, 724 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: when you went to college, that is so helpful, I 725 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: think to say out loud, I'm just feeling this myself. 726 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: But when you went to college, you were doing all 727 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: these things that were said or I don't know who 728 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 1: said them, but they were positioned in a way that 729 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: this is going to bring you what you want what 730 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: you wanted was to be seen, but what underneath you 731 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 1: wanted to be seen? But what was underneath of being 732 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: seen that you were really wanting belonging connection? Um. And 733 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I didn't get those things, because I 734 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: think I did. Um, But yeah, you just you wanted 735 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: that sense that you did you know? Did you know 736 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: at that time that what you really wanted was belonging 737 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,439 Speaker 1: in connection? No? I wasn't aware. So it said later 738 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 1: when you start going to theory, you're like, oh, I 739 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: didn't really just want to be the star in that musical. 740 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: I wanted to belong to somewhere. So that's why I 741 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: still have this feeling because it's not that I mean, 742 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: I guess too. You aren't in the show anymore, and 743 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: you aren't on the school soccer team or posters in everywhere. 744 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: And so after you leave college, then what especially as 745 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: you're talking about moving through these careers. Um, so where 746 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: does that leave you now? Where do you find being 747 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: seen now? It's different from where you found it before? Yeah, 748 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: I think, um, And this is something I still have 749 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: to work through and navigate. But it's it's less about 750 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: being seen in a public way, in a public display 751 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: of achievement or um, whatever it is I'm doing, But 752 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: it's really learning to be vulnerable with your inner circle 753 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,959 Speaker 1: and allowing people to see who you really are when 754 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: when the masks are off, when you're not working, when 755 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm not up on the podium trying to teach a 756 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,320 Speaker 1: cycle bar class or you know, prepping an event. Um, 757 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: it's letting my inner circle see who I really am 758 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: behind closed doors, and um yeah, just being accepting of 759 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: them as well. And I would say in the past, 760 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: it's taken this long, Like I didn't start really being 761 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: vulnerable until the past three years. And that's it's so 762 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: crazy to think about that I was walking around kind 763 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: of awake to who I mean, asleep to who I was. 764 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: And I think the idea of like I love even 765 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: how at the beginning when we were talking about my 766 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: perception of you and you were able to say and like, 767 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 1: quite frankly, you don't need to know everything about like 768 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: you don't need to know my pain, which I really respect. 769 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, hell yeah, because everybody doesn't. Right, we live 770 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: in this world that it is like kind of what 771 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about, whish it would have been on 772 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: the air, but kind of we were talking about putting 773 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: all this stuff online that really is reserved for like 774 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 1: an inner circle that you can connect with. Because when 775 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: you think about like I used to hear that all 776 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,720 Speaker 1: the time, like oh, just be yourself or let people 777 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: know who you really are, And I'm like, what in 778 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,959 Speaker 1: the who am I? Right? Like I even let people 779 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: know that? And then the more like I've learned and 780 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can connect this to that. When 781 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,400 Speaker 1: we break the word intimacy down, it's like into me, 782 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,759 Speaker 1: you see, which really are like the language really is 783 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: freedom and feelings and needs and relational connection. What I 784 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,399 Speaker 1: heard and what you just said was you move from 785 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: I want to be seen too. I want to be 786 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: known so your friends really know you and so we're 787 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,800 Speaker 1: not just like looking at you as like a picture 788 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: or an accomplishment because you do have those things and 789 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: you are cool and you are pretty wants to but 790 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: we actually like to know what's under uneath that, and 791 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,839 Speaker 1: there's value in the things that people cannot just see. Yeah, 792 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: And it's um, it's being comfortable enough around other humans 793 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: to cry at a bar, which I've I'm not proud 794 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: to admit of I've done multiple times. This year crying, 795 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go past it. But part of it, part 796 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: of it is drinking can bring that out. And then 797 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 1: also like just we're having real conversations around things that 798 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: we struggle with and and I couldn't before the past 799 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,360 Speaker 1: three years. I don't know that I could tell you 800 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: the last time I cried in front of a friend, 801 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,839 Speaker 1: you know. And so it is it's the breaking down 802 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: and being willing to show the parts of ourselves. And 803 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: it's something I'm continuing to learn, but the parts of 804 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: ourselves that we're maybe not proud of and or excited 805 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: to share with the world and learning that it's it's 806 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: safe and it's okay. Um. And it takes finding the 807 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: right people to be safe and okay with. That's so key. Yeah, 808 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: how do you navigate I was thinking that as you 809 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,720 Speaker 1: were talking, when you were talking about being honest with friends, 810 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,439 Speaker 1: how do you navigate which friends or maybe which people 811 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: in your life you're going to let really see into 812 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,240 Speaker 1: you and which people maybe you don't want that. Yeah, 813 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: that's a really really good question. Um, we we've been 814 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,919 Speaker 1: really lucky, I think with our friend group that we've 815 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: kind of created. Um, I think it's just been a 816 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: lot of time spent and a lot of um, life 817 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: things that we've walked through with each other that you 818 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of just learn. Um. We all we all know 819 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,479 Speaker 1: kind of where are our values are, which is really 820 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: important and key. Um. I think we were all very 821 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: different in a lot of ways too, which is great 822 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: because you want you know, different voices speaking in But um, 823 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: I think it really is just like the quality time 824 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: that you're spending in the conversations that you're having. Um, 825 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,279 Speaker 1: it's a it's a breaking down, you know, it's not 826 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: here's everything right here? Um. But I also do think 827 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: I've become more of an open book with some more 828 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: people as I become more comfortable with talking about being 829 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: more vulnerable, which I think is a really beautiful thing 830 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: because it can bring in an openness um to a 831 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: relationship and welcome in other people into that vulnerability. Um. 832 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: But no, they not everyone needs to know my pain. 833 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: But I think as you're navigating it, you can. I 834 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 1: don't know, there's an energy around people that are welcoming 835 00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:34,399 Speaker 1: to those conversations and some people just aren't. And that's okay. Yeah. 836 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: I find like people worth trusting are the ones that 837 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: show up. They are the ones that show up when 838 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: they're supposed to, people that keep their word. Like even 839 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: thinking about I think I use the example of a 840 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 1: marble jar a lot of times with clients of having 841 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: this empty jar and each time a friend or somebody 842 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,480 Speaker 1: in your life shows up when they say they're going 843 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: to and when they share things back about their life 844 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, we're building like more marbles this 845 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: jar to be able to trust them versus sharing your 846 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: whole life with somebody you just met. Right, It's a 847 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: really good analogy like that, just coming off of that 848 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: and then going back to you talking about your dating 849 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: experience as an adult ish person? Um, how have you 850 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,960 Speaker 1: navigated that and dating? Right? So when you're because you 851 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: talked about too what am I? What am I doing wrong? 852 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 1: As part of your story that you have in your head? 853 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: So have you navigated how to date as an adult 854 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: as you know, more of yourself without giving these people 855 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: things that they don't need? Yeah? Yeah, your gold to strangers? Yeah? No, 856 00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 1: it's a really really good question, and I'm definitely no expert. 857 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,800 Speaker 1: Haven't figured it out clearly? Um, since I'm still single, 858 00:48:53,360 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 1: I doesn't mean you haven't figured today. Thanks Megan, I'm 859 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 1: gonna take that for myself as well. I'm not single 860 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: and I don't have it, you know. Yeah, it's messy. 861 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,880 Speaker 1: Human relationships are messy. I think that's just gonna and 862 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:14,799 Speaker 1: that's something i'm learning to like. It's never gonna look perfect, um, 863 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think it's I've been learning a lot 864 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,399 Speaker 1: with dating UM to come from a place of curiosity, 865 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: which has really helped change like my stance in things. Um. 866 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:34,400 Speaker 1: Instead of walking into a date thinking that having assumptions 867 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:40,240 Speaker 1: about someone or um having expectations around how it's supposed 868 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 1: to go, which can really ruin something. UM. So it's 869 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,719 Speaker 1: just going in with an open mind of hey, I'm 870 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 1: just curious about this human and that doesn't put expectations 871 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 1: on them. I don't know where they're at, um, so 872 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,400 Speaker 1: let's just like write it out and just come from 873 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: a place of curiosity. UM. I think with not giving away, 874 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, like keeping things slow and and that's 875 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: a tough one because I think it's important to come 876 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 1: from a place of honesty and if I like someone 877 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: like they need I think they need to know that. 878 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,040 Speaker 1: But also it's really scary and that too, and something 879 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,440 Speaker 1: I'm definitely working through is um, I give a lot 880 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,239 Speaker 1: of power away to other people's opinions of me, and 881 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,279 Speaker 1: so is that, um, if someone doesn't like me, it's 882 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 1: it's really really hurtful and like it has a knock 883 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: on my own worthiness. So like if you know a 884 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,120 Speaker 1: guy that I really like all of a sudden decides 885 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: doesn't want to continue whatever, I can take that really 886 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: really personal and just think, oh, well then he just 887 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm not worth worthy of him or anyone or um. 888 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 1: But that can go outside of dating a hundred percent. 889 00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: Like giving my power away people pleasing is like a 890 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: really is the thing that I struggle with absolutely, So yeah, 891 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,760 Speaker 1: that's something that I'm working through, which even I mean dating, 892 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,040 Speaker 1: I used to say and I probably still believe this, 893 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,560 Speaker 1: Like I'm like, I think some of my prayers used 894 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: to be, like God, it is going to take a 895 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: freaking miracle to get two people to like each other 896 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: at the same time. Because so there is something when 897 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: you're really willing to step into your desire what you're 898 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,560 Speaker 1: doing and go on dates and be vulnerable and risk 899 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: getting to know somebody and then to sometimes have that 900 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,040 Speaker 1: where maybe the feelings aren't mutual, and to deal with 901 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,440 Speaker 1: like the grief and the disappointment in that it's just 902 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 1: freaking so hard. It is hard. It's like it's starting over. Yeah, 903 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 1: can I share something that you said to me? Is 904 00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:58,880 Speaker 1: not that intimate? Its secret. So after you listen to 905 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,839 Speaker 1: the episode on Attached meant Kellen texted me and said, 906 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: I can't figure out whether I'm avoidance or anxious? Are 907 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:13,480 Speaker 1: you more like me? Well, and you know what is 908 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: coming to me now is because it is. It's not 909 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: a secret anymore. If you've listened to that episode that 910 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:26,960 Speaker 1: in our cohort of age wise single people, most people 911 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: that we are um engaging with are anxious or avoidant. 912 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: There's a less um there's a smaller pool of secure, 913 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,520 Speaker 1: a securely attached people. But what I have heard from 914 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,720 Speaker 1: you and now, I don't think you're perfect, and nobody 915 00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 1: is perfect, but what I've heard from you talk about 916 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: your story and this and just what I what I 917 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,400 Speaker 1: know of you, and putting that out on top of 918 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: that is I don't know that you right now are 919 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,799 Speaker 1: leaning towards really insecure avoidance or insecure anxious. I think 920 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,719 Speaker 1: you're pulling into this secure place where you know who 921 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: you are, you know, you do know what you want, 922 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: like you know of these things. You don't have them all. 923 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,319 Speaker 1: But what I hear is you then go on these 924 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: dates with these people, we don't know their attachment on 925 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,879 Speaker 1: their first on the first date, right, and so then 926 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: we're you're making a judgment about you and you don't 927 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,279 Speaker 1: know what those people's stories are. So you might be 928 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 1: super secure, you know, you might be going into these 929 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: dating experiences securely attached to yourself. But the part that's 930 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,160 Speaker 1: not secure is that you're you're thinking that you're not 931 00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,880 Speaker 1: the secure one and that they are. I think basically 932 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,960 Speaker 1: they might be the problem. That's what I'm saying. It's 933 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:40,720 Speaker 1: all these stupid boys. But you know what, Yeah, that's 934 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: I think that I would want you to look into 935 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: that more and look into your experiences and just knowing 936 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,399 Speaker 1: some of the ones that you've had recently, is they 937 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:54,040 Speaker 1: do seem like the ones that are having the insecure 938 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 1: parts come out. No, that's interesting. I think that I 939 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 1: think where I struggle with, Yeah, some of the like anxious, 940 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:08,000 Speaker 1: avoidant whatever. I think. Um, once I decide that I 941 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,319 Speaker 1: like someone, like I'm ready to go like I'm I 942 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: think it's because I know what I want, So it's 943 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,799 Speaker 1: like that's gonna be secure that right, like, let's let's 944 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,319 Speaker 1: do this, Like I don't understand what where and why 945 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't you want to date me? Because I like myself? Yeah, 946 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,439 Speaker 1: But then when when things end, I find myself analyzing, 947 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 1: like and overthinking everything. I'm like, what what did I 948 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,319 Speaker 1: do wrong? What when did he say that? What did 949 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,319 Speaker 1: da da da da da? Which it really does take 950 00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,840 Speaker 1: so much work, Like some of it is true, like 951 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: you could be I don't. I don't know you know 952 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: enough about you or your attachment to know where you stand. 953 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 1: But I think for all of us, even those of 954 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,960 Speaker 1: us who are more securely attached, it's also knowing, like 955 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:53,040 Speaker 1: the leaning in any given moment avoidant and then being able. 956 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: It's not like, oh I have this attachment style and 957 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: I'm so messed up, or I got this attachment style 958 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,480 Speaker 1: and I really lucked out, But it's like, can you 959 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,920 Speaker 1: sit in that and move towards health? Like I know 960 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,960 Speaker 1: early on in my relationship, I lean way more avoidant, 961 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,719 Speaker 1: and Eric is pretty secure but probably leans more anxious. 962 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,840 Speaker 1: Otherwise I don't know that we'd really work out together. 963 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:19,280 Speaker 1: And like and even though when two avoided to get together, 964 00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 1: they're like, this is amazing. We don't have to talk 965 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 1: to each other ever, And I'm like and I I'll 966 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:25,799 Speaker 1: be in my office with somebody, I'll be like, yeah, 967 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,239 Speaker 1: I don't know that you're connecting. They're not smothering you, 968 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,719 Speaker 1: and you're not smothering them, but I don't know that 969 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,160 Speaker 1: you're connecting anyway. Early on in my relationship, it really 970 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,000 Speaker 1: was like Eric had so much more desire to see 971 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,880 Speaker 1: me and spend time with me, and I just couldn't 972 00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,600 Speaker 1: tolerate it, Like there was just way too much fear 973 00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 1: and like I would we would go on a date 974 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,279 Speaker 1: and be with each other for two hours and he'd 975 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,480 Speaker 1: be like, let's keep going, and I'd be like, I'm exhausted, 976 00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:56,400 Speaker 1: Like I'll see you next week. There was so much 977 00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,560 Speaker 1: like going on. It was so difficult for me, and 978 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: he really had to live with really wanting more for 979 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,239 Speaker 1: me for a long time before I could like tolerate 980 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,399 Speaker 1: being in it. So I had to say that as 981 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,600 Speaker 1: a matter of like, yeah, it is difficult, and so 982 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: much of it is reading yourself at any given moment 983 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,800 Speaker 1: to see what you need and where you can step 984 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:25,840 Speaker 1: into that. Yeah, no, it's helpful. It's really fun, And 985 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,200 Speaker 1: by fun, I do really like what you're talking about 986 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:32,400 Speaker 1: curiosity though, because even like when I think about dating, 987 00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,200 Speaker 1: something I tell people a lot is it's really hard 988 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 1: to go into dating on a date thinking like can 989 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,000 Speaker 1: this person be my husband? Or can this person? Can 990 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,640 Speaker 1: it work out? But if we step back and go 991 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,080 Speaker 1: in from a position of curiosity of like, hey, I'm 992 00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,279 Speaker 1: going to grab dinner coffee with this person to just 993 00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 1: to get to know them and in the process learn 994 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,360 Speaker 1: more about myself, it really takes a lot of pressure 995 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,799 Speaker 1: off and you can actually enjoy it. Like dating is 996 00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,360 Speaker 1: supposed to be fun. Apparently it's Yeah, that's what they say. 997 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,200 Speaker 1: That's literally what they say. Our parents, Yeah, they said 998 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,839 Speaker 1: was so fun. I'm like, yeah, you didn't have social media, 999 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: you didn't have didn't have texting even like um but 1000 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 1: I actually one time, which that stresses me. I can't 1001 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,600 Speaker 1: handle it. Um. I actually had a friend recently she's 1002 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 1: newly dating someone, and she was struggling whether she wanted 1003 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:26,200 Speaker 1: to go on like I think it was like date 1004 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: four or something, and she texted a guy, a guy 1005 00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,000 Speaker 1: friend of hers, and was like, I don't know if 1006 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:31,640 Speaker 1: I should go And he's like, well, are you still 1007 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 1: curious about the person? Like I think so often we 1008 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 1: put so much pressure on like, but I don't know 1009 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,520 Speaker 1: if he's the one. Well, okay, you're you're not going 1010 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 1: to know that on date four, Like you're just not. 1011 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,920 Speaker 1: And I do think, especially when we're in our thirties, 1012 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:49,840 Speaker 1: like we feel like we have to figure it out 1013 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,320 Speaker 1: so soon and so quickly because we're scared to waste time, 1014 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,800 Speaker 1: which I get those are all valid fears, but we 1015 00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,280 Speaker 1: could be really pushing someone away that maybe it is 1016 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,280 Speaker 1: supposed to be on our life. What yes, very wise 1017 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: words that you were saying, And I would encourage you 1018 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:08,040 Speaker 1: to apply that to other aspects of your life too. 1019 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:13,040 Speaker 1: And uh, I just remember because I've always been the 1020 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,480 Speaker 1: kind of person who's like, I like this person, let's 1021 00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:22,240 Speaker 1: date right now, let's do it. We're getting married? Is it? Well? Location, 1022 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,400 Speaker 1: but not that extreme. But um, the last guy that 1023 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: I did date, I remember saying like, I don't know 1024 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 1: because I really didn't know, and I never sat in 1025 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 1: that place that I don't know that long before, and 1026 00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:36,920 Speaker 1: I said, the only thing I know is that when 1027 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,360 Speaker 1: I leave, I want to come see you. I want 1028 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: to see you again. And that can I think that 1029 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: idea being helped because that helped me. Right, it took 1030 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,480 Speaker 1: all the pressure off. They actually could see do I 1031 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: like this person? What do I like about this person? 1032 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,040 Speaker 1: Without thinking about the future. But if we take that 1033 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,120 Speaker 1: idea and we put paint that over all aspects of 1034 00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 1: our lives, whether it's our career, our friendships, having a house, whatever, well, 1035 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,680 Speaker 1: do you like going to work? Like? Do you want 1036 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,480 Speaker 1: to go work tomorrow? Right? It's like you don't have 1037 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,480 Speaker 1: to know if you're gonna like this job in five years, 1038 00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: but do you want to come tomorrow or whatever it is? 1039 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,280 Speaker 1: Living whoever you're living with? Do I want to live 1040 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,880 Speaker 1: with my roommate tomorrow? Yeah? So I think I'm good like. 1041 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,000 Speaker 1: But if you can apply that to every aspect, what 1042 00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,040 Speaker 1: would life as an adult? I feel like to you 1043 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,200 Speaker 1: if that's the framework rather than because what I heard 1044 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,760 Speaker 1: from you in the beginning is adult. Being an adult 1045 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:35,080 Speaker 1: is having clarity, freedom to change what you're stealing from 1046 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 1: all the twelve step programs, um of the one day 1047 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:43,600 Speaker 1: at a time. I don't even know that why I'm 1048 00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:45,720 Speaker 1: going to change the wording and write my own book. 1049 00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: Oh God, I think you can really roll with it. 1050 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,800 Speaker 1: I think it's this idea. I mean, any sort of 1051 00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,040 Speaker 1: twelve step recovery that somebody getting sober, getting clean or 1052 00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,560 Speaker 1: whatever it is. It's like, Okay, I'm not going to 1053 00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 1: drink today and then tomorrow I'll decide not to drink again. 1054 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,040 Speaker 1: But really that like I love what you're doing and 1055 01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 1: expanding that, but it's really of like can we start 1056 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:07,680 Speaker 1: looking at stuff of like, yeah, do I want to 1057 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,920 Speaker 1: see this person again or do I want to do 1058 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,400 Speaker 1: this job for this season versus this idea of Somebody 1059 01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:14,960 Speaker 1: asked me this week of like do you think you'll 1060 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,720 Speaker 1: be a therapist forever? And I was like, oh, good lord, 1061 01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,200 Speaker 1: that's a scary question. And I'm like, you know, I 1062 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,160 Speaker 1: don't know, but I really like it for this season. Yeah, 1063 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: and I think it's really good. And it even it 1064 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,960 Speaker 1: takes me back to like sometimes goals can even be daunting. 1065 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,600 Speaker 1: And it's like my coach told me recently, he was like, 1066 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: well how about because I was like I didn't do 1067 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,240 Speaker 1: that because I just didn't want to. And he's like, okay, 1068 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,840 Speaker 1: well that's a problem. So like how do we reframe 1069 01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,160 Speaker 1: this commitment and this goal into something that you want 1070 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 1: to do? And he's like, how about you just do 1071 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,840 Speaker 1: commit to working on it? For an hour, Like you 1072 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,400 Speaker 1: don't have to do X y Z, like just work 1073 01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:51,520 Speaker 1: on it for an hour, take the small steps and 1074 01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,400 Speaker 1: then like then expand on it. And I think it 1075 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,960 Speaker 1: is um. I love the way you're saying of like 1076 01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,960 Speaker 1: treating life that way of like one day at a time, 1077 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,400 Speaker 1: tim and but even treating adulthood. I wonder what does 1078 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,120 Speaker 1: that feel like to walk into that space of Okay, 1079 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 1: being an adult means that I get to make these 1080 01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: decisions every day rather than I have to have made 1081 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: them already. Yeah. I think you you take things and 1082 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,280 Speaker 1: you you come from a place of like of wonder 1083 01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,640 Speaker 1: and curiosity. It's like, well what if what if I 1084 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,200 Speaker 1: did this today instead of that? And also like some 1085 01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: gratitude of like I get to make these choices like 1086 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,600 Speaker 1: this is yeah, this should be exciting to have the 1087 01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: opportunity to get to decide what my career is tomorrow 1088 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,280 Speaker 1: and to get to decide if I want to be 1089 01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: a sago of our teacher or not or you know, 1090 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:47,240 Speaker 1: like to have some freedom and that is exciting. It's 1091 01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,880 Speaker 1: so good ship. Okay, we need to wrap it up. 1092 01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: Want me to have a final question as we close out. 1093 01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,160 Speaker 1: I think the question that I still hold is really like, 1094 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,680 Speaker 1: as you look back, does anything come to your mind 1095 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,840 Speaker 1: of advice you would give to your younger self? Really 1096 01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: good question. I think something that I would probably tell 1097 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 1: my younger self is like to relax a little bit, 1098 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 1: Like life doesn't have to be so serious, and it 1099 01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:23,240 Speaker 1: isn't linear, and it's not black and white, um, and 1100 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,880 Speaker 1: that it doesn't have to look a certain way, like 1101 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: whatever society pressures, whatever family pressures or or anything like 1102 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,720 Speaker 1: that is their opinions don't matter. Like this is your 1103 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,680 Speaker 1: one life and you get to choose how you want 1104 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: to live it. And so go go do the thing 1105 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,600 Speaker 1: you want to do. I mean, I'm still teaching myself that. 1106 01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,560 Speaker 1: So amen, Yeah, do the thing you want to do. 1107 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:54,600 Speaker 1: You go here first. Well, Kellen, thank you so much 1108 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,720 Speaker 1: for coming and spending time in our office with us. Yeah, 1109 01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,840 Speaker 1: it's an honor. I feel very honored to be here. 1110 01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:06,480 Speaker 1: And I feel like I should have said this before, 1111 01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:10,440 Speaker 1: but Callen talked about how she likes to help people 1112 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,919 Speaker 1: do creative things and she's who helped me start this. Wow. Yeah, 1113 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:15,480 Speaker 1: she did the cover of what do you call it? 1114 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,040 Speaker 1: The art artwork? The artwork, and she taught me how 1115 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,200 Speaker 1: to upload it, and how you to garage band and 1116 01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,880 Speaker 1: how um, I mean everything you taught me how to 1117 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,400 Speaker 1: do everything. I know you everything, Catherine. Catherine was giving 1118 01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,360 Speaker 1: you lots of shout outs to our sound engineer. I 1119 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,640 Speaker 1: was like, call talking Kellen, give me the shoe box 1120 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,240 Speaker 1: to carry that around? Probably would have been can we 1121 01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,080 Speaker 1: get something better? And because the first time we were 1122 01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,960 Speaker 1: Catherine brought some seven to record. She was going to 1123 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,000 Speaker 1: do a session another office and I was like, Hey, 1124 01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:50,200 Speaker 1: do you need your shoe box and she was like, oh, no, 1125 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,120 Speaker 1: that's the that's the equipment for the for the podcast. 1126 01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,480 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, is that a perfect picture of 1127 01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:58,960 Speaker 1: like what my life is like, carrying my important ship 1128 01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,080 Speaker 1: around in a shoe box. I was I was going 1129 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,440 Speaker 1: to call you up for the the one thing you 1130 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,920 Speaker 1: said to me a couple of weeks ago after New 1131 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,080 Speaker 1: Year's um when a guy called me a try hard 1132 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:18,800 Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, okay, the wrong way, the 1133 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: only one I thought I supposed to know that. I 1134 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,880 Speaker 1: like immediately at a urban dictionary. So I don't know 1135 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,480 Speaker 1: what to try hard. It means, right, somebody who tries 1136 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: too hard, But he didn't mean it that way. I 1137 01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,760 Speaker 1: don't think he knew what it meant. He meant like, 1138 01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,240 Speaker 1: it's I wish it wasn't. I think he was saying 1139 01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: it was too hard for him to try to make 1140 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,800 Speaker 1: a move on her. But that's not what it's not 1141 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,240 Speaker 1: what it means. Bally, he was saying, I wish you 1142 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 1: weren't such a try hard because I wanted to like 1143 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:46,919 Speaker 1: make a move on you. Basically, so you were avoided, right, 1144 01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,120 Speaker 1: But really she just wasn't interested in him. I think 1145 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 1: you were appropriately. But what did I say to you? 1146 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,760 Speaker 1: You go, well, Calen doesn't try hard at anything, So 1147 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,200 Speaker 1: I was like, it's like so much offense to that. 1148 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,920 Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't didn't like that. I just 1149 01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,280 Speaker 1: like coast through life. Did I meant? That's not really 1150 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,720 Speaker 1: my meant life meant it in a nice I meant like, 1151 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,160 Speaker 1: Kellen doesn't have to try really hard to like be 1152 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,520 Speaker 1: like what I know of Kellen today is she doesn't 1153 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,040 Speaker 1: have to try really hard to look have a certain 1154 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,240 Speaker 1: look or be cool. She just like is you're just 1155 01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,040 Speaker 1: naturally amazing. Yes, that's what I meant, and it came 1156 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,600 Speaker 1: home bad. Back now that we're on your natural amazingness, 1157 01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:31,320 Speaker 1: back to how you helped Katherine and then me now 1158 01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,320 Speaker 1: joining get all this started and looking so amazing. Where 1159 01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,800 Speaker 1: can people find you if they want to hire you 1160 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,880 Speaker 1: for creative yeah endeavors, Yeah yeah yeah. You can find 1161 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:44,800 Speaker 1: me on Instagram It's at kellen Joe. And then my 1162 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,240 Speaker 1: website is the same kellen joe dot com and that 1163 01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:50,520 Speaker 1: is Kelly with an n K E L L Y 1164 01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:55,880 Speaker 1: n j O Kelly. Thank you, have a blessed day 1165 01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:01,320 Speaker 1: and go tighten, tighten up. Don't say about tighten super 1166 01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:11,600 Speaker 1: Bowl alright Bye,